The White Sox have discussed star closer Liam Hendriks in talks with other teams this winter, reports Mark Feinsand of MLB.com (Twitter link). There’s no indication a deal is especially likely, although it stands to reason a number of clubs would have interest in installing the three-time All-Star into their late-inning mix if Chicago’s amenable to making a trade. Feinsand notes Hendriks’ contract contains a limited no-trade provision that allows him to block a move to five unknown teams.
Hendriks just wrapped a fourth consecutive excellent season. A journeyman depth arm for the first eight seasons of his MLB career, he broke out with a 1.80 ERA in 85 stellar innings for the A’s in 2019. The Australian earned his first All-Star selection that year, and he performed at a similarly excellent level during the abbreviated 2020 campaign. His final two seasons in Oakland saw him put up a 1.79 ERA while holding opponents to a .192/.240/.289 line through 99 games.
Over the 2020-21 offseason, the White Sox signed Hendriks to a $54MM free agent contract. It was technically a three-year guarantee, with Hendriks making $12MM in ’21, $13MM in ’22 and $14MM next season. The 2024 campaign is technically covered by a club option, but both the option price and the buyout are valued at $15MM. It’s a no-brianer to exercise the option then; the only reason for the Sox to opt for the buyout would be if they simply didn’t want Hendriks on the roster, which would probably only happen in the unfortunate event he suffers a serious injury that’d cost him the whole season. If the Sox do trade Hendriks, that option would become guaranteed — although again, that’s largely immaterial.
Hendriks has picked up right where he’d left off on the South Side of Chicago. He’s been selected to the Midsummer Classic in both seasons as a White Sox, and he earned some down-ballot Cy Young support with a 2.54 ERA over 71 frames in 2021. His 2022 campaign was technically his worst in four years, though that’s only a testament to the incredible bar he’d set. The right-hander worked to a 2.81 ERA over 57 2/3 innings, striking out an elite 36.2% of opponents. Hendriks lost a few weeks midseason with an alarming-sounding forearm strain, but he returned without any signs of ill effect. He fanned 35.4% of opponents after the All-Star Break, working to a 3.33 ERA while averaging north of 97 MPH on his fastball.
While he turns 34 in February, he’s shown no signs of tailing off thus far. Hendriks is due $29MM over the final two seasons of his current contract. As one of the best relievers in the sport, he’d have plenty of appeal on the trade market at that price. The free agent market for late-game arms has both been strong and moved quickly, and the only reliever of Hendriks’ caliber who’d have been available (Edwin Díaz) re-signed with the Mets just before the signing period opened.
That highlights the potential for Hendriks to be a key player on the offseason trade market, but that’d require the White Sox showing an openness to moving him. That his name has surfaced in trade discussions is far from an indication the Sox are actively shopping him, as it’s possible general manager Rick Hahn and his group are simply taking calls from interested clubs out of due diligence.
The White Sox are set on bouncing back from an average 2022 campaign to try to reclaim their spot atop the AL Central. Subtracting Hendriks from the ninth inning would make that more difficult, and it stands to reason they’d only move him for a deal that netted them MLB-ready help elsewhere on the roster. Chicago does have an excellent bullpen that’d still be a strength even without Hendriks, as Kendall Graveman, Aaron Bummer and Reynaldo López are all strong late-inning arms. Joe Kelly has the potential to assume high-leverage innings himself, as does young southpaw Garrett Crochet, who’s working back from April 2022 Tommy John surgery.
Chicago has more pressing needs elsewhere on the roster. They signed Mike Clevinger to a $12MM free agent deal to fortify the rotation behind Dylan Cease, Lance Lynn, Lucas Giolito and Michael Kopech, but they could look for another depth arm. Second base is a major question mark, and they could look to add a bat to factor into the corner outfield/designated hitter mix. The Sox didn’t get especially good production from catcher or third base this past season either. Both Yasmani Grandal and Yoán Moncada are under contract and expected to get opportunities to right the ship, but Chicago could theoretically look into either position if the chance presents itself.
Hahn told reporters at last month’s GM Meetings the club was more likely to accomplish any roster reshuffling via trade than free agency. Chicago’s 2023 payroll projection, per Roster Resource, is around $179MM. That’s about $14MM shy of this year’s Opening Day figure, so the Sox should have a bit of financial breathing room, but they may have to look towards the lower tiers of free agency for any pickups. Hahn told reporters this evening the club has to be more open-minded than they were last winter to make any major roster changes after their disappointing 2022 campaign (via Daryl Van Schouwen of the Chicago Sun-Times).
coupofthecentury
If you’re putting Joe Kelly in high leverage situations, then you’re tanking the season.
Plugnplay
It’s early still, they could get a ready now positional player on the cheap, and still sign FA closer. Dunno?
jk
Kimbrel is available
avenger65
Good one. Since the wsox FO obviously has no intention of putting a competitive team on the field in 2023, they might as well trade Hendriks since there won’t be many games to save. I don’t know why mlbtr keeps saying the Sox have a strong bullpen, it’s a joke. Graveman, Kelly and Diekeman are awful. Crochet is still working his way back from tj surgery. Put clevinger back there and you’ve got one nightmare of a bullpen.
ponytail01
Jimenez, Crochet,Bummer.
13Morgs13
If I’m the Phillies I’m making that call.
Captain Dunsel
Vierling, Morales, and McGarry.
VonPurpleHayes
McGarry should be untouchable for now.
Captain Dunsel
Imagine the Phillies bullpen with Hendriks. Now, Imagine Braves bullpen with him. We still would have Painter and Abel.
#1WhiteSoxFan
I wonder who the “5 no-trade” teams are?!
DonOsbourne
1. Yankees
2. Mets
3. Dodgers
4. Red Sox
5. White Sox
That’s right, the White Sox. If you’re going to design a contract that has an option equal to the buy out, you’d might as well include your current team in the no trade clause.
mike127
—and the teams listed are pretty much perennial contender. Always list the contenders so when the issue comes up—“i will gladly waive the no trade for another xx number of million dollars.”
BigB
Do it, Rick.
Milwaukee-2208
Brewers
User 3014224641
Yes, please, ditch him!
dodgersvictoryagain
Dodgers : make it happen
Cumquat
If Lux is included Do it
flamingbagofpoop
Lol.
THEY LIVE!!!
Dodgers should trade Lux for Hendricks.
coolhandneil
No way.
Hughjass39
Dodgers have Busch in AAA. He seems ready for mlb. Bats left and plays 2b and of.
dodgersvictoryagain
Dodgers
make it happen
ChiSoxCity
Watch them trade him for some stiff. So done with this f’n team.
pinstripes17
The Cubs will take him if the Sox take Madgrial back
ASapsFables
It’s not as if the Cubs couldn’t use a closer in 2023 if half of the rumors circulating about them come true. Signing one or maybe even two of the shortstops? Signing Japanese ace Kodai Senga? Trade talks for one of the Jays catchers or the A’s Sean Murphy?
Gold Glove switch-hitter Ian Happ would look good in LF for the White Sox. The ChiSox could do worse than bring Nicky Two Strikes back to play 2B for 2023 and beyond. Gavin Sheets might also be of interest to the Cubbies at 1B?
ponytail01
The Cubs want a right-handed first baseman to platoon with Matt Mervis. I agree with Happ and Madrigal but don’t think it will happen.
mohoney
Nick Madrigal sucks. Getting rid of that noodle bat was the lone bright spot of the Kimberley trade. Unfortunately, Sox gonna Sox, and they turned around and handed that spot to Leury Garcia, the worst position player in baseball.
ASapsFables
There’s a whole lot of guys in the HOF who swung a “noodle bat”. Today’s nerds don’t understand the concept of “hit ’em where they ain’t.” Their comprehension revolved around hit the ball as hard as you can regardless of how many times the bat misses the ball. They fail to understand that the worst outcome in baseball is striking out.
mohoney
Yeah…3 decades ago…
ASapsFables
I guess there’s less chance for elite hitters like Rod Carew, Wade Boggs and Tony Gwynn, each of whom averaged single digit HR totals throughout their long careers, to succeed enough and produce HOF careers according to nerds like yourself.
There would be even less chance for a guy like Nellie Fox to even get signed, let alone reach Cooperstown with the emphasis on advanced analytic measures today. I can only imagine what Fox 20-80 scouting grade scale would be if sabermetrics was utilized when he was a 130lb. teenager in ‘Small Town’, Pennsylvania back in the 1940’s.
stevep-4
Says a guy who never played baseball.
avenger65
Any trade they make will be for a scrap that costs the minimum. By the end of spring training the team will be loaded with DFAs.
ponytail01
It seems like most of the contending teams want to add but not the Sox. I’ll wait a few weeks to pass judgment but I’m not impressed by most of the rumors going around.
nrd1138
I think you mean lack of rumors.. Getting tired of seeing teams do what they can to have a chance, Guys like Trea Turner and Verlander getting huge deals from teams that want to win, and Hahn aiming for the middle as usual (and apparently shopping one part you need to be competitive, a closer). Any ‘splash’ he makes may just be in the bathroom, or he’ll trade someone with value for another reclamation project and call it being competitive.
Mystery13
Santiago Espinal and Trevor richards for Hendriks, get it done white sox
infractor
That’d be a bit of a heist for Toronto. Two reasonably reliable guys who have moments of high performance and redundancy at each position for a high leverage BP arm to potentially round out an all of a sudden top-tier back-end 3 or 4 guys.
iverbure
I wouldn’t be a heist. In fact baseball trade values had the values nearly even. White sox would have to throw in a prospect or cover some money likely.
BlueJ’sAllDay
Cavan Biggio and Trevor Richards and I’m into it. Not Espinal please and thanks
TrillionaireTeamOperator
Yankees…. But for whom? Do the White Sox need a $10M AAV golfer- I mean, outfielder? Or a $29M third baseman? Perhaps both?
YourDreamGM
Obviously Gleyber although they can get Reynolds for him and Devi so might as well do that.
CaptainJudge99
YourDreamGM- Yeah just keep Liam Hendriks as far away from the Yankees as possible, thanks!!!
king beas
A 2b with less than control than Reynolds and a failed 5’9 pitching prospect is all it’s going to take?
Hughjass39
is volpe and Sweeney too much?
rct
“Yankees…. But for whom?”
Gallo straight up.
Gator Bait
Overrated
greyishwhitesox
Being more open minded about major roster changes sounds like they could really screw things up. Can’t wait to watch what these geniuses do.
SupremeZeus
White Sox are so skint they have to make a salary dump trade to have any payroll flexibility. This is allegedly their “window” and they’re are subtracting their best players? FO master class.
iverbure
Fans love when their team makes a bunch of splashy expensive signings and trades just to be competitive. Then yell and scream when the team’s payroll is maxed out. Fans are dumb.
nrd1138
No one is saying that all of these big deals pan out, but at least the attempt is made. The problem is the White Sox hardly ever try, even if they do its more of a show: They make half-assed efforts to make such a signing and then blame the player or how another team ‘outbid’ them. The Sox have consistently make middling moves to try to catch lightning in a bottle (like they apparently did in 05). The problem is it rarely works, but they keep on trying which is why the Sox usually back into the playoffs, if they make them at all.I mean all of this would not be as bad if the Sox did not have a FO trying to snow everyone over by saying they have (apparently had as you do not shop your closer if you are trying to win it all) a window to win a World Series like Hahn was hyping during the rebuild..
avenger65
If they do get rid of Hendriks, it will be the start of a salary dump. That usually happens just before a team is sold. Fingers crossed.
flamingbagofpoop
The grass is not always greener.
nrd1138
‘Skint’.. A good word hardly used anymore… The White Sox are not skint though, as they have the money, The problem is JR apparently thinks he can take it with him when he goes.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
How about a few baseball cards, a sack of marbles “cough” Petey for Hendriks?
rct
You traded my dead bird for Liam Hendriks?!?
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Hahaha (mouth full of chips) yeah.
ASapsFables
“The money will (no longer) be spent”.
OJ's White Ford Bronco
Bring Back Bobby Jenks. Aka Kenny Powers
avenger65
I hear Wilbur Wood is also available.
baseballteam
The Sydney Sydneyans
Plugnplay
What would u have to give up for him for a return? Since you still have to pay him pretty well at 2/28? Interesting!
bkbkbkbk
Tim Anderson & Hendricks for Rengifo and a low A arm?
jk
That seems off lol
YourDreamGM
Or a low a arm for Rengifo
jk
Maybe throw in Jimenez to sweeten the deal
bkbkbkbk
Theyre both making full freight, I think WS may overrate their value, especially if they want to receive payroll.
drasco036
White Sox fans salivating at “winning a trade”…. Because winning games are overrated
avenger65
We’re not salivating at “winning a trade.” We’re just pissed off that the rebuild they started in 2017 that led to two pathetic turns in the POs has now fallen apart thanks to the indifference of Reinsdorf. To him, winning IS overrated because he’s allowed his team to sink so low that they dropped to a .500 record and didn’t contend for anything this season. Thank you for allowing me to vent.
flamingbagofpoop
You really need new material. The WS aren’t a large market team, despite the city they play in. They have spent a decent amount of money, they just did so poorly.
nrd1138
The Sox are a large market team, Chicago is a large market last I checked, its just that good ol’ JR likes throwing nickels around like they’re manhole covers.. Apparently learned from the best in ‘Dollar’ Bill Wertz..
flamingbagofpoop
Apparently you did not read what I said. The WS might play in Chicago, but they certainly do not control even half of that market. For example, in 2022 the WS were 19th in attendance while the cubs were 11th, despite the WS playing better baseball.
In 2022 the WS had the 7th highest payroll in MLB per sportrac, about $53m higher than league average. So again, it’s not that they don’t spend money, it’s that they do so poorly. Many, many, MANY people commented in previous articles on WS signings about how the money they had been giving out was being poorly allocated, but sox fans didn’t want to hear it.
foppert
Good story is Hendricks. Close to oblivion and then turned around quickly for him. Did a podcast for his countrymen telling his journey from Aussie kid to MLB, outlining how it all works in the MLB, and the differences between American and Australian sporting cultures. Really good listen. Probably doesn’t get the press he deserves down here.
foppert
As illustrated by me spelling his name incorrectly. Sorry Liam.
NineChampionships
Right off the bat I thought:
-Mariners? Kelenic or Trammell plus more (obviously)
-Astros for one their starters?
-Tampa makes sense as well even at the 29M/2yr pricetag. Yandy or Brujan as the main piece going back?
iverbure
Bluejays.
ASapsFables
White Sox and Blue Jays do potentially match up in some areas. ChiSox have bullpen depth. Toronto has some catchers or maybe a 2B that could interest Chicago.
Alejandro Kirk or one of their other backstops could work. Maybe take a flyer on lefty hitting 2B Cavan Biggio? 2B/OF Whit Merrifield? Both teams looking for some lefty hitting to balance out their right-handed hitting lineups, primarily in the outfield.
nrd1138
Kirk? You mean the guy that will have maybe one more good season before injuries start happening and pilling up? Though it sounds like the kind of boneheaded move Rick and company would do, especially if it will save JR a buck. I also love the remark of ‘taking a flyer’ on players, so I guess the Sox ‘window’ has closed?
ASapsFables
With catching upgrades in mind, Athletic beat writer Ken Rosenthal reported from the Winter Meetings on Wednesday that the A’s were more inclined to pursue controllable MLB ready talent rather than top prospects in trade talks regarding All-Star catcher Sean Murphy (theathletic.com/3975468/2022/12/06/mlb-free-agency…). If in fact true, this could give the White Sox a bit of an advantage trying to win the Murphy derby with other contenders who have superior farm systems.
Clearly Liam Hendriks would not be involved here but other cheap, young and controllable players could come in to play with the A’s. After letting Jose Abreu walk out of Chicago, it’s less likely that Hahn & Co. would deal Andrew Vaughn now. Lefty power hitting prospect Oscar Colas would also figure to be off the table as the anticipated White Sox RF in 2023. Perhaps LHP Garrett Crochet, 2B/SS Lenyn Sosa and 1B Gavin Sheets might appeal to Oakland along with some other near MLB ready prospects like SS/2B Jose Rodriguez, OF Yoelqui Céspedes or 3B Bryan Ramos.
ASapsFables
Rosenthal also suggested that the A’s were likely to wait until after free agent catchers Willson Contreras and Christian Vasquez signed on with their new teams before pulling the trigger on a Sean Murphy trade. They’d prefer waiting and then leverage themselves with the losers in the FA catcher derby. All this speaks to the “patience” that White Sox GM Rick Hahn said might be necessary before he might be able to land one of the trade candidates he is seeking this offseason to fill needs at C, 2B and with their desire for an additional lefty bat, likely in the form of a corner outfielder.
nrd1138
I would rather have the Sox sign Contreras than take a gamble on Murphy (which they cannot do because a team that wants to win, the Cards, just signed him). I think Murphy is more fools gold from the A’s and someone is going to give way to much for a guy who is one knee injury from being pedestrian.
cwsOverhaul
Decent lefty bat that can also play respectable D be it 2B or OF.
ASapsFables
Red Sox need a closer. Alex Verdugo would look good in LF for the White Sox. Boston would have to sweeten the pot a bit to land Hendriks.
south side hit men
Can’t be straight up for Lux. If we also got catching prospect Dalton Rushing I’d be intrigued. Reynaldo Lopez could be a closer. Wouldn’t rule out Kopech if he can’t ever pitch 175+ innings to becoming a closer
flamingbagofpoop
Wait, you think they’re going to get more than a Gavin Lux type player?
cwsOverhaul
Sure. He’s not wrong if it was specifically Lux b/c he is more of a platoon vs RHPs. Might be more of a C further down the prospect list like youngster Galiz, but 2yrs of top tier closer has greater value than just a former hyped prospect that hasn’t yet looked really good. A new FO should have been brought in to fix this roster and revamp its player development top to bottom.
iverbure
Lux is worth roughly 3 times Hendricks. Where do you people come up with these player evaluations? Rather than pretend to know something, just research it. Lux has a value of 30.8 and Hendricks has 11.4 or 11.8 I dunno not even going to bother to check the number because the trade isn’t going to happen because it’s not close, and if it were to happen the white Sox would be the one adding assets to the trade not the dodgers in your delusional trade proposal.
Kyak
Yanks would be a good trade partner. Gleyber is expendable at this point and maybe the Yanks could sweeten the deal to somehow send Donaldson over too.
ASapsFables
‘Jackie’ says hi!
MarlinsFanBase
If the White Sox are willing to trade Hendricks, the Marlins should be in on that.
ponytail01
The two teams seem to match up. How about we include Jake Burger for one of your lefthanded starters plus Dax Fulton and Jose Salas?
MarlinsFanBase
Whew, that’s a hard deal to consider. Honestly, with the fact that the Marlins efforts for Closer has been so awful, that there are several free agents that would be an upgrade, I’d prefer to check on those before giving up this return for the opportunity of what may be a couple of more years of Hendricks being at a prime level.
Not a knock toward Hendricks, but more that it’s better for us to not sell the farm for one piece when we virtually will have an upgrade from grabbing up one of several free agents because we have nothing in the form of a Closer.
Edison
White sox get: Jose Suarez, luis Rengifo, and prob one or two unranked minor players.
Ángels get: Liam Hendriks
BaseballisLife
Of course they have. Reinsdorf is a train wreck. I doubt that the White Sox will ever contend again with him as the owner. They are just a cash infusion he can pour into the Bulls.
Megatron2005
The Rebuild and Jose Abreu’s white sox career were basically a complete waste. Only saving grace would be successful postseason birth in 2023. But more than likely they win somewhere between 72-78 and finish 3rd in the division.
dewssox79
ughh
IronBallsMcGinty
Damn it’s tough being a White Sox fan. They’re supposed to be trying to win, they moved on from Larussa, let Abreu walk, have one of the best closers in the game and are now considering trading him. What’s next, Vaughn, Cease and Robert for prospects?
I see a pattern forming.
nrd1138
Forming? Its really the same ol story for the White Sox org…. Aiming for the middle, getting guys past their prime and hoping for a resurgent year, all the while watching players known to be good NOW going to the top bidders… Loads of ‘what ifs, ‘hopes, and ‘buts’. I see teams aiming for the top, giving outlandish contracts to bonafide stars in hopes of getting to the next level, and then guys like Hahn just giving lip service when aiming for the middle. Sure, some of these deals do not pan out, but at least their GMs have the financial backing of their owners, and are TRYING to win it all. Seen this WAY too much to be enthused by anything the Sox FO says is being competitive (especially when discussing trading your closer when you are supposedly in it to ‘win it all’). If anything, this should show the real reason why the Sox have no Soxfest this year.. They did not want to hear the place brought down by the booing at the FO for their lackluster efforts the last few offseasons.
Sorry Hahn, if you say its raining Ill assume you are pissing on my shoe.
Fred McGriff HR
He would be an interesting fit for the Braves bullpen considering Kenley was on $16m and Liam is owed $14M for 2023, although as far as I am concerned Kenley did a pretty good job, but of course he has his critics and detractors. Dylan Lee, Minter, Hendriks/Iglesias either/or. That’s pretty solid if Hendriks stays with his same form, but I wouldn’t be giving up too much for him at his age. Iglesias was a steal.
It will be interesting to see if Braves re-sign Kenley, and I wonder if they’ll give an invite to Darren O’Day to spring training. You can never have enough arms or options in the bullpen.
Backspacer
Hendricks to the Yankees for Donaldson and Torres comfirmed
stymeedone
With Yankees paying all of the contracts and throwing in a low level prospect.
nottinghamforest13
If the buy-out is the same value as keeping him on the roster, I’m curious why his representative felt it necessary to make the option guaranteed in the event of a trade.
rotofool
If Hahn “must” deal Hendricks, hopefully he maximizes Liam’s value by getting premium prospects, like his Quintana or Eaton deals. Hahn has shown some ability.in these kind of deals.
I do like the Dodgers as a trade partner, but would much rather see the SOX acquire a package of Miguel Vargas, Gavin Stone, and a lotto ticket than simply for Lux or major league assets. Vargas is likely a more valuable commodity than Hendricks and probably penciled in at 3B, so packing other Dodger needs (Sheets, Burger, Leury?) to get a premium prospect would be a better return investment for a move that could potentially destabilize their ’23 & 24 bullpens.
gm05
Hendriks & Giolito for Cartaya, Stone, Kopp & another lower prospect.
I can see the Sox taking that deal, to free up money. Cartaya will take over the catching duties from Grandal during the season. Stone would be their next big pitching prospect. Left hander Kopp will take over in the bullpen once Crochet moves to the rotation. With the money saved, the Sox could go out and sign Benintendi for LF and bring back Quintana and have him take over Giolito’s spot in the rotation. For 2B, they can go out and sign Segura or Frazier.
Dodgers will get one of the best closers in the game. Giolito becomes their 5th starter. He needs a change in scenery. Warmer weather might do him good.
gm05
Anderson SS
Benintendi LF
Jimenez DH
Robert CF
Vaughn 1B
Colas RF
Moncada 3B
Grandal C (for the beginning)
Frazier/Segura 2B
SP’s – Cease, Lynn, Kopech, Quintana, Clevinger
Closer – Lopez
MadSkillsUniversity
K-Hahn need to go like GarPax. Until that happens, I just see bad decision after bad decision., and look at the farm system – one of the worst in Baseball after all these bad years! That just BAD scouting and development. This org need a overhaul, from the bottom, up – period. Jerry needs to lose money so he really feels our pain, but he is not.
cubfanforever
Cubs/ Sox…. Hendricks for Hendriks.
Franco22
TA will want too much in 2024.Trade him now. Sox need two position players.Merrifield , Ohtani, etc. Hendricks and TA, Moncada, Grandal, traded free up cash for Ohtani. Sign Andrus till Colson is ready.
Franco22
Blockbuster deal only way out of mess.
ASapsFables
Tim Anderson will have to wait until 2025 before cashing in on his free agent contract. The White Sox, or whatever team they might trade him to, hold a $14M team option ($1M buyout) for the 2024 season. Barring a devastating injury or a significant off-the-field issue, picking up that option figures to be a slam duck decision for his 2023 team.
Franco22
Another 83 game season for TA reduces his perceived value which is all media hype. Suspensions, poor fielding, negative clubhouse value, off the field issues make him a potential pr nightmare. His ego won’t let him play OF, so he’s just a good hitter that won’t suit up and play. Prorate his pay per game played. Move while you can IF he is worth it.
nrd1138
Sad thing is he is not that good of a hitter anymore. Not sure what happened, but no power last season and became a singles hitter… yeah I get that he is a lead off hitter, but sometimes even those guys need to get the big hit to win a game and he disappeared an awful lot when needed.. never mind his inability to stay healthy, which should concern everyone considering he relies on his lower body but apparently does nothing to keep himself in shape.
Here is to hoping (yeah I know another ‘Hope’) that Montgomery makes big strides in the spring and makes Anderson dispensable. (probably wont happen but one can dream)