Coming off the heels of a day where we saw another major signing, here are three things we’ll be keeping an eye on in the baseball world throughout the day.
1. Swanson is the last man standing.
For a few days now, Dansby Swanson has been the last of the four star shortstops that hit the free agent market this offseason to remain available. Now, with lefty Carlos Rodon headed to the Yankees on a six-year deal, Swanson is the last top-tier free agent at any position. He’s one of just two players still on the market who ranked in the top 20 of MLBTR’s Top 50 Free Agents at the start of the offseason, joining No. 15 Andrew Benintendi. Swanson appears to be in a good position, with teams such as the Cubs, Twins, and Red Sox, who missed out on the other top-of-market free agents they’ve pursued, potentially in the market along with the incumbent Braves. MLBTR readers voted the Cubs, Braves and Twins (in that order) as the likeliest landing spots for Swanson in a poll yesterday.
2. When will the Blue Jays look to move a catcher?
The Blue Jays have been open to dealing one of their catchers throughout the offseason, and with the free agent catching market thinning out by the day, the Jays’ catchers are the top remaining options on either the trade or free-agent markets. Most recently, Omar Narvaez agreed to a deal to join the Mets yesterday, and Mike Zunino landed with the Guardians just a few days before. With Tucker Barnhart and Austin Hedges now among the best remaining options available behind the plate, it would be no wonder if catching-needy teams began to explore a trade with Toronto more aggressively. The Cubs are in need of a catcher to pair with Yan Gomes after Willson Contreras left for St. Louis, while the Astros were a finalist for Contreras and had interest in a trade for Sean Murphy, suggesting they’re a candidate to weigh a trade with the Blue Jays as well. Perhaps the most interesting partner would be the Diamondbacks, who were reportedly interested in Murphy and have a handful of big-league ready, lefty-hitting outfielders who could provide some much-needed balance to a lineup which is overwhelmingly right-handed.
3. Will San Diego’s aggressiveness continue?
San Diego has been one of the league’s most aggressive team for years now, and that hasn’t changed this offseason as they signed Xander Bogaerts to an 11-year deal last week. Still, it appears possible they could make even more additions to impact the team before Opening Day. The Padres, for instance, were reported finalists for righty Chris Bassitt, who ultimately signed with the Blue Jays on a three-year deal. It was a pursuit that made sense for San Diego; despite the strong trio of Yu Darvish, Joe Musgrove, and Blake Snell, the back of the rotation — which currently consists of Nick Martinez and Adrian Morejon — has question marks. An additional starter, such as Nathan Eovaldi or Corey Kluber, could bump one of them to the bullpen and solidify the rotation. The Friars also appear to have interest in adding a corner outfield bat, with Jose Azocar currently projected for regular work in left field. However, recent trades have depleted San Diego’s once-stellar farm system, and Roster Resource already projects the Padres over the second tier of luxury tax for 2023, complicating their path to upgrades. Still, president of baseball operations A.J. Preller has proven time and time again he should never be counted out of making another major move to improve his club.
TheMan 3
the Pirates need a catcher but it will have to come cheap, since the owner is the Scrooge of baseball
It’s an embarrassing time to be a Bucs fan
hellsbells51
Campusano and Grisham for Reynolds. There’s your catcher and your replacement in CF. Campusano has been one of the Padres top prospects and Grisham is a 2x gold glover that would hit a lot better in Pitts.
Brew’88
Wouldn’t that create a more massive hole in the SD roster at catcher?
hellsbells51
Not necessarily, Campusano is still considered the back up catcher to Nola. They trade Campy and they can pick up Alfaro again or someone like Hedges.
deweybelongsinthehall
I understand Bloom just re-signed Henry Owens and Blake Sweihart. How about those two for Reynolds?
21Clemente21
Dream on, Reynolds will never come that cheap
Simm
Yeah he won’t but if the padres wanted to they could add some prospects to the deal.
I dont see it happening since the padres are more likely to trade for pitching if they were to make a trade at that level.
BadCo
Have to agree, Reynolds still has three arb years left, and that should bring more
libertyfighter
This! The biggest need on the Padre roster is a dependable 4th starter. The Padres could sign a middling 4th starter [Wacha, Evoldi] now, see how Morejon & Martinez work as 4th/5th/6th and then trade for the upgraded controllable starter at the trade deadline.
TheMan 3
Unless both are minimum salaries, the Pirates won’t trade for them
You apparently don’t understand the financial concept of Bob Nutting
Henry Silvestre
I wouldn’t trade Campusano for Reynolds straight up ..let alone add the best defensive CF in the NL to that package .. Remember Pittsburgh ain’t Petco (see Giles) Reynolds is a 15HR a yr OF in SD.. and his defense in CF is mediocre at best
TheMan 3
yeah that’s why he was in competition for the Gold Glove in 2021 because his defense is so bad
Simm
His defense is pretty bad. Forget the gold glove convos…Soto was a finalist this year and he isn’t very good in right.
Brew’88
As a side note, the Pads just yesterday invested $5.6 MM into #1 Int prospect, who is a catcher.
Simm
He is only 16. Some people think he is the best international prospect in 20 years.
Brew’88
I stand corrected, it’s a verbal agreement but inevitable. This is how the Pads refurbish the farm so perpetually
hellsbells51
This is very true and yes, I thought that out too. Reynolds would definitely not have the same numbers, I look at him more of a doubles to the gaps type hitter in Petco. He has a solid bat regardless and we need players that simply get on-base. We all know no one can replace Grisham’s defense in CF, but we have Tatis who is fast/athletic enough and once he gets his reads and timing down he can be a solid CF. If Reynolds were to stay in CF, we can always defensive replace him with Azocar towards the end of games.
rondon
Campusano hasn’t proven anything other than he’s a solid defensive backstop so far. Reynolds is a proven all star level big leaguer. You can nitpick or selectively pick whatever stats you want but the Bucs are gonna get a much better return than just Campusano.
deweybelongsinthehall
All-Star in large part because the options on the Bucs is so slim.
Deleted Userr
Too bad the Pirates don’t want either of those dudes. I doubt they trade Reynolds for anyone that doesn’t have all six years of club control remaining. Not even as a tertiary piece.
TheMan 3
not necessarily true, dewey. David Bednar is a highly sought after closer, Hayes has been a finalist for the Gold Glove the last few years
tiredolddude
When I read comments like this I can only wonder, “Does this dude even watch baseball ?”
I’m the first to admit Reynolds is not a superstar and really, he’s a corner outfielder being made to play center because the Pirates have no one else
But take away the aberration that was his batting average last year and look at his history
He’d only make any team better
That said, I hope Cherington sticks to his guns. If a team wants him, make them pay. For once, don’t just give a talented player away
deweybelongsinthehall
Three way trade can always happen.
BeforeMcCourt
Yeah Henry, it’s SD is who’s getting taken to the cleaners on this suggestion
A Glove only CF and a backup C who’s already a bust or well on his way to reaching that status, for one of the most valuable players on the trade market with 3 seasons of control, who can also play CF but can hit
Phew, some padre fans…
deweybelongsinthehall
But have either been close to being an All-Star?
Pads Fans
Rafael Palmiero won a Gold Glove while playing 1B only 17 games. The GG is a joke and has been for decades.
Reynolds has a -19 DRS and 3 OAA the last two seasons in CF. He has been mediocre to poor on defense.
Pads Fans
They have to wait until Han 15th to sign him, but have scouted him for a long time and its a foregone conclusion he will sign.
6’2″ 180 and already has a 1.8 second pop time.
Did you see where they are saying that Salas could be in A ball as soon as 2024? That is crazy fast. Not sure a 17 year old can even play professional ball in the US which is why they usually play in the DSL summer leagues.
Pads Fans
Old saying in baseball. A run saved is worth a run scored. Grisham saves a ton of runs. With his questionable defense, Reynolds may not add more runs to the board overall than what Grisham saves.
Pads Fans
So, you are saying you really no nothing about Campusano?
Campusano is a bat first catching prospect. He has hit so well in AAA the last 2 seasons that he has nothing to prove there. After he got aclled back up in August he had similar success in the majors.
Th knock on him has been his game calling and defense, both of which he made huge strides at in AAA last season.
Campusano needs regular at bats. It doesn’t matter if that is at DH or if he is behind the plate. The Padres non-tendered Alfaro to give Campusano that shot. He is not being traded.
If Reynolds was being traded, Campusano alone would not be enough.
Pads Fans
Know. Spellcheck. grrrr
DongMaster
Higashioka for Reynolds. Yanks can even throw in Hicks.
calibucsfan
This is just dumb
Deleted Userr
Pirates wouldn’t be interested in Campusano or Grisham. Camp is a catcher which they don’t need because Henry Davis. Grisham has the same club control as Reynolds which is the only reason they would trade Reynolds in the first place.
Rsox
You would need more than that and the Padres probably don’t have it to give.
Still plenty of OF options available in free agency. Andrew Benintendi/Joey Gallo/Raimel Tapia/Michael Brantley/Cory Dickerson/David Peralta/Adam Duvall/Robbie Grossman/Tommy Pham/A.J. Pollock/Chad Pinder/Ben Gamel/Rafael Ortega/Odubel Herrera/Adam Engle/Billy Hamilton/Jackie Bradley Jr./Kevin Pillar/Jake Marisnick/Bradley Zimmer/Travis Jankowski/Delino DeShields Jr./Roman Quinn/Andrew McCutchen/Tyler Naquin/Michael Conforto/Kole Calhoun/Stephen Piscotty/Alex Dickerson/Wil Myers/Jurickson Profar/Trey Mancini
Outfielders are the one market that’s barely moved and lots of options available that will neither break the bank or further deplete the farm
JoeBrady
Campusano and Grisham for Reynolds.
============================
Two of the Pirates top prospects are catchers.
Pads Fans
Just Henry Davis, their #1 prospect, Endy Rodriguez is their #6 prospect and no longer really a catching prospect. He is not a top 100 prospect either.
BeforeMcCourt
Bahahaha. Nice and even bells
Pads Fans
No.
Catuli Carl
But you can watch games at a great ballpark with an amazing view for like $10. Silver linings.
MotownWings
PNC Park is a fantastic stadium to watch games at. I’ve been twice when visiting and luckily it was during the years when the Pirates were competitive.
Catuli Carl
It really is. I went to college near Pittsburgh and reps used to come to our school selling ticket packages. You’d get a free drink, hot dog, tee shirt and a ticket to a game all for like $10 or $15. We used to go all the time. Bucs fans’ misery was my gain.
MotownWings
You can’t beat a deal like that!
deweybelongsinthehall
How many years ago was that? A beer at many parks today costs that.
Catuli Carl
Wasn’t a beer unfortunately. Just a soft drink. But this was in about 2011.
Treehouse22
IC Light was $9 for a can last season.
VonPurpleHayes
One of my favorite ballparks! Gorgeous. Great views everywhere.
TheMan 3
not intentionally trying to offend you, but anything Iron City beer varieties taste like the bottoms of the Allegheny River
Not baseball related, I demolished the former fermentation building at their old brewery in Lawrenceville. 9 floors of aluminum tanks each weighing 10,000 pounds.
And the tanks had to be removed intact before the building was brought to the ground
BaseballisLife
The Pirates were competitive?
Treehouse22
@TheMan: What about Luis Torrens? He’s not an UFA until 2026 and he can actually hit. Look at his 2021 season. The Bucs haven’t had any offense from the catcher position in a minute.
TheMan 3
Russell Martin and Fransisco Cervelli were the last two catchers were decent offensive players with the Bucs. It’s been downhill since.
Deleted Userr
They should go cheap at the catcher position the next few years cuz they have Henry Davis.
Treehouse22
And Endy Rodriguez. They just need two place holders until Endy is ready, then only one until Davis is ready…and by ready, I mean until after the manipulation date has passed.
Saskatchewan Jaysfan
Moreno and O.Martinez for Reynolds. Moreno will probably end up being the best of our 3 catchers and O.Martinez is a year away from being MLB ready. Anyone of our prospects are available except for Tiedemen
Jubilation
That package gets you a seat at the table but not a winning hand
JoeBrady
Moreno and O.Martinez for Reynolds.
=======================
Y’all need to start looking at both sides. This is the second proposal I read offering a catching prospect the PT, even though they already have two catching prospects,
pohle
davis may not be an everyday catcher, and endy is definitely an up and comer but having two projectable minor league catchers does not necessarily block then from adding more here and reshuffling davis maybe to a corner somewhere if they even all pan out
Pads Fans
Forgot to say on my last post. Davis struggled at his first attempt at AA in 2022 and will be back there in 2023. He won’t help in Pittsburgh in 2023 or even 2024 as a starter.
No team is going to NOT trade for a MLB ready player just so that a guy that is 2 years away won’t be blocked. Not smart baseball.
JoeBrady
Never going to happen. That would leave the Pirates with two catching prospects almost identically aged and identically ranked.
BaseballisLife
They are not closely ranked. Rodriguez is no longer a top prospect at all, 6th for the Pierats, and Davis is #1 in their system and top 20 in MLB.
Rsox
Jacob Marley has pretty good frame rates but Bob Cratchit can be had cheaper, and is willing to work on Christmas!
Polyglot
Sadly, the bucs are prisoners to the shareholders so they wont pay the debt back so soon because heavenforbid they have one year with no profit. Greedy ####
TheMan 3
Shareholders?
Only one person owns the Pirates
Robert Nutting, newspaper publisher
Clepto_
Dead wrong The Man. Pirates are owned by an ownership group. Fact. Nutting is merely the largest shareholder, and he may or may not own 50% or more of the team.
TheMan 3
wrong, Clepto
Nutting bought out that group, headed by Kevin McClatchey
Nutting is the sole owner
TheMan 3
I researched the question of who owns the Bucs just now to clarify what I am claiming
Kevin McClatchey led a group that included Bob Nutting and bought the Bucs in 1997
In 2007, Nutting bought out that group and McClatchey, though the latter stayed on for one year as CEO. McClatchey left the franchise in 2008.
Pads Fans
Robert Nutting (born March 29, 1962) is a businessman and sports team owner. He is currently the principal owner and chairman of the board of the Pittsburgh Pirates of Major League Baseball.
Clepto_
You are dead wrong. He is NOT sole owner. He is part of a ownership group. Why dont you try listening to or reading reputable local sports columnists. While he DID buy out McClatchy, he was NOT the only owner in the group.
Research next time.
Dorothy_Mantooth
The Pirates have their catcher of the future in Henry Davis already. They just need a cheap, stopgap until he is ready. Davis should be their primary catcher by 2024 at the latest, barring injury or a major slide in AAA.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Sorry if this comment posts multiple times. Something is going on where I add a comment via the internet site (not the App) and the comment shows up 6-7 times! Hopefully, once the 5 minute edit time elapses, the duplicate entries will be erased.
Pads Fans
Davis struggled in his first try at AA in 2022 and will be back there in 2023. If everything goes right he will gt a cup of coffee in 2024 and maybe be a starter in 2025. Or he could take longer or continue to struggle with the bat against the higher level competition.
Good teams don’t worry about blocking guys that are at least 2 years away. This is the Pirates, so maybe they will.
CaptainJudge99
The Friars are in deep talks with everyone. So no more signings then. Just the trade market.
JockStrap
R Sox to get Swanson
redsox for_life
Nop… Drury and trade Devers for Alvarez and Baty
JockStrap
As Aerosmith sang “dream on”.
VonPurpleHayes
I see the Devers trade happening. I don’t think you’ll get both Alvarez and Baty, but one of them packaged with Carrasco, McCann (Mets paying some of that salary) and Escobar. Something like that.
VonPurpleHayes
*or Escobar. Not all of those guys for a rental.
JockStrap
I agree and rather trade him then lose out like we have been lately due to poor management decisions,
bkwalker510
why would the Red Sox trade Devers for a bunch of spare parts lol
deweybelongsinthehall
Don’t see it happening for multiple reasons including trading to Cohen who has to be resented by some owners and the fact that such a move would probably end with fans not showing up at Fenway. The fans deserve honesty if prices are to remain as high as they are to get to a game. I for one would not spend the kind of money needed for a rebuilding team.
VonPurpleHayes
Alvarez is a #1 prospect.
JudgementDay
Well Red Sox traded Betts for a lot of junk and Betts is a lot better than Devers. Once touted prospect Jeter Downs which they got in the Betts deal was DA. Boston might take a lot of. Cheap spare parts for Devers.
Rsox
Betts had to be traded, Devers doesn’t and if the Sox feel they need to they can wait til the trade deadline. Literally all this trade represents is a Mets fan wet dream of acquiring one team’s star for their team’s junk that the owner now has to get off the roster (i know Von is not a Mets fan, I’m just generalizing). Quantity doesn’t always (or usually for that matter) equate to quality
metsie1
You do realize that it was a Red Sox fan (see above) who suggested the ridiculous trade. Second, No team is going to give up multiple controllable young assets at the “trade deadline” for Devers. By the time the deadline rolls around the Sox will be 20 games out and Devers will have half a season before he’s a total free agent.
The likely outcome is Devers is signing a massive new contract with Boston OR he’s going to play it out and go to full free agency.
VonPurpleHayes
He’s going go to net less at the deadline than right now. The Sox may lock him up with a big extension, but if that goes south, a trade makes a ton of sense while he has some value. I think the Sox will try to extend him, but it’s going to take a lot.
Rsox
It will and should take a lot given Devers age and improving bat skills. I don’t think the Sox can afford to run Devers out of town so quickly after losing Bogaerts and Devers is the one they really should be trying to lock up no matter what
deweybelongsinthehall
The game has changed a lot since Betts was dealt. Then, teams were looking to reset the tax threshold but since the new CBA, it doesn’t seem as important to most clubs.
VonPurpleHayes
I think now, teams are willing to go over for 2 years and then reset with the hope that you have some young talent to replace stars headed to free agency. The Dodgers are resetting right now, and they still look pretty good on paper.
JoeBrady
why would the Red Sox trade Devers for a bunch of spare parts lol
================================
You obviously know nothing about Alvarez and Baty lol
I doubt we get either one for Devers.
Rsox
I think they were referring to Vons one of Alvarez/Baty with McCann/Carrasco/Escobar proposal.
While Alvarez and Baty are top prospects the rest are basically sunk cost for the Mets to try to unload
JoeBrady
this trade represents is a Mets fan wet dream of acquiring one team’s star for their team’s junk
================================
It was a RS that suggested the trade, and his suggestion was Alvarez & Baty. That’s so bad it might get vetoed. One of the responses was by a Philly fan suggesting one of the two prospects + Carrasco.
Devers had a 4.4 bWAR last year and 3.5 the year before. If the NYMs wanted to trade either Alvarez OR Baty straight up, I’d drive Devers down the Shea myself.
Rsox
Man, you want to get rid of him that badly you’d drive him all the way to a vacant lot where a stadium used to sit?
VonPurpleHayes
@JoeBrady I did say the Sox would do it straight up for Alvarez.
Pads Fans
The Red Sox ONLY got a MLB player in Verdugo that was a 1 year removed from being a top 35 prospect and who was the Dodgers top prospect who had hit .294 with a .817 OPs in 106 games for the Dodgers, a top 50 in MLB prospect in Downs, plus more because the Dodgers bought down the cost by taking on a large portion of Price’s contract. It would have cost much more in prospects without Price being part of the deal.
Something similar is what it would take to get Devers right now. Start with both Alvarez and Beatty and add 2 or 3 lower level prospects. Devers won’t come cheap.
Rsox
I think thats what a lot of people don’t understand about the Betts trade; the addition by subtraction of unloading David Price and half of his salary. Anytime you unload an bad contract in a deal you lessen the return
JoeBrady
a vacant lot where a stadium used to sit?
========================
It’s a short walk.
JoeBrady
Start with both Alvarez and Beatty and add 2 or 3 lower level prospects.
=============================
I doubt they can get either one alone, let alone both. In year one, assuming that either Alvarez and/or Baty are starting, I would bet that they are 3 WAR of Devers. And then there would be 5 more years of either player.
BaseballisLife
People keep saying stuff like that and year after year the top rental trade targets like Devers bring huge packages of players and prospects back to their original teams.
At some point fans will have to realize how valuable a playoff appearance is to teams and why they are willing to give up good prospects for All Stars if it can help them get into and go deep in the playoffs.
BaseballisLife
You would lose that bet 90% of the time.
spareman7 2
highly unlikely the Red Sox ownership do not care about the Red Sox anymore. They are taking us fans as suckers. they think we will come no matter what the team is like.
Treehouse22
Let’s Go Bucs!
Brew’88
Yeah, Preller can never be counted out, but there is no news or rumor here with the Pads.
Simm
I think the padres are looking to go the trade route. You usually don’t hear about those deals until they happen, are about to happen or failed to happen.
So just because you don’t hear anything doesn’t mean something isn’t brewing
Brew’88
I think so too. My comment though was not about the Pads, more directed to mlbtr for creating a story when one doesn’t seem to be there.
Simm
True, it’s like a story about a story they think my become a story.
Manfred’s playing with the balls
Thank god the MLBTR staff have Brew 88 to tell them what’s a legitimate rumor worthy of a story and what isn’t.
Brew88
coming here for news or substantiated rumors A’s fan, that’s all
bhoops
I don’t think there is any avenue that Preller is ignoring at this point, it would be foolish to rule out a trade or a signing.
Having said that, my money would be on him waiting out the FA and finding a few veteran bargains to fill out the roster. He needs a corner OF that can spell Tatis and Soto occasionally and can start if Tatis doesn’t stick in the OF. I suspect he’d be happy with Joey Gallo or Wil Myers, whoever is cheaper. He could use a 1B capable of spelling Cronenworth, and maybe stepping into a starting role if Jake further regresses in his offense this year. Brandon Belt would be a perfect fit, he can’t be counted on to play everyday at this point but if anyone in the infield gets hurt, Jake can slide over and take their spot and Belt can move into a starting spot at 1B.
I’d be surprised if they didn’t start the year with a 6-man rotation again, it allowed their older starters to hold up through the playoffs. Eovaldi would be great, but Kluber would be fine as well. And I still think there is room for a longshot like Cole Hamels to battle Morejon for a starting spot.
Not my money, but it seems like LH hitting Belt, RH hitting Myers, Eovaldi on a 2 yr deal with an opt-out, and a Cole Hamels would give the 2023 Padres the depth of the 2022 Dodgers.
Brew88
@bhoops. Agree with your thinking about their needs, and I think some of those actions will play out – all quite plausible. Despite all the chatter to contrary, if they dabble in FA at all it won’t be a splashy signing at this point. And I’d be surprised if they orchestrate a big trade too, given they have few minor league pieces and what it would take (from the ML roster) to make a big deal. Though if something presents itself, ownership has the means to green light. If they had a big trade in the works I think it would have happened in concert with or not long after the Bogaerts signing – sort of how Preller works.
The most interesting part of the off-season to me is the small pieces that are assembled to bring rosters together. Stay tuned!
libertyfighter
Both Myers & Gallo would fit perfectly. A righty & lefty who each can play all 3 OF spots, 1b, and DH. It also fortifies our weak bench. The Padres might be able to get all 3 [Drury, Gallo & Myers] for $20m. Lugo would be a perfect solution to start the season as our #4. Add Rosario as the infield utility and the position players on the roster would be set. Might need to beef up the catching at AAA in case of injury. The Padres also need a substantial pitcher [a #1 or 2 type] with control to 2025, if Lugo or whomever at #4 doesn’t work out. Preller’s MO is that he acquires players with at least 2 years of control, although, he could extend both Snell & Yu and pick up a stud rental at the trade deadline to round out the playoff roster.
The Padres traded a lot of very good to elite talent for Soto. 2 MLB ready [Abrams, Gore] & 3 top 50 prospects [Wood, Hassell & Susana]. At least 3 of them are going to have meaningful careers. Having said that the Padres still have some very good prospects at the lower levels, 2 to 3 starting pitchers along with another SS & soon to be Catcher out of Venezuela. The Padres do have enough prospect capital to get a decent 4th starter via trade.
Sunday Lasagna
Henry Davis struggled a bit at Altoona, but he is entering his age 23 season, have to give him a long look in spring training and give him every chance to the Pirates catcher.
TheMan 3
Maybe Wampum, but doubtful
Heineman and either Delay or if he’ll sign cheap, Roberto Pérez will start the season as the catchers.
After the time has passed for super 2 status ( heaven forbid if a player obtains service time early in the season), Delay or Heineman will be released and Endy promoted
User 4095290658
That’s about right. I don’t see what you problem is with this scenario. Sign a competent defender at $5m and wait for Endy and/or Davis to force BC’s hand.
The Bucs have much bigger holes to fill in the outfield – especially if Reynolds gets his move.
TheMan 3
my problem with that scenario is that isn’t how the objective of the cheapest owner in baseball, Terrier1980
As a lifelong Pirate fan I would love to have both Davis and Endy on the roster starting the season but I am well versed in how the franchise management operates
User 4095290658
But they’re nowhere near ready to appear in the big leagues. Best case scenario is Endy keeps up the great numbers and gets to Pitt in July.
It’s been well documented Davis is still working on pitch framing and game calling – hence his stint in the AFL.
The Pirates really need someone like Perez, Cusali, Hedges or Barnhart to set a defensive standard that these young players can try and emulate IF they continue the good work and earn a promotion at some point in 2023.
tiredolddude
They have holes everywhere, if you think about it. You have Cruz, who will lead the league in errors unless there is some drastic improvement, a mystery player at 2nd, the outfield you write of, a pitching staff that enjoys throwing fastballs dead red and hanging spin pitches, and most importantly, a giant set of holes at the plate
Their approach is odd to me
They brought up a number of kids in the outfield last year and all looked overmatched
Middle infielders, as well
But they have Endy and Davis in the minors, along with the second wave guys like Rodriguez, Swaggerty, Peguero and pitchers
I’m really interested to see how they are going to balance all of this
User 4095290658
I think Bae will win out at 2nd to start the season. Good minor league OBA with lots of steals (don’t forget the bases are bigger and pick-off attempts limited in 2023). He’s an ideal lead off man in Manfred’s vision of a more old time version of baseball.
I’m also really interested to see how they pan out, but understand there are real baseball limitations to promoting all t0 MLB at the same time.
Does TheMan 3 have any consideration at all for the young pitching staff if he’s pushing for a couple of rookie catchers with only a handful of games at AA/AAA between them?
tiredolddude
I get the young pitchers/inexperienced catchers scenario. The problem in Pittsburgh is the lack of good instruction.
It started as Searage seemingly got stale here and remains today. Perhaps this is why Hanrahan left the organization.
To continually watch Brubaker, Wilson and Thompson pitch as if they are still in high school is mind numbing to say the least. The lack of understanding of pitch counts, locations when ahead in the count, individual strategies regarding hitters—-is incredible
Yes, how do inexperienced catchers play into this. No idea
But you have all this young talent and little progress. Same mistakes over and over
TheMan 3
I wasn’t pushing for Endy and Davis to make the club out of spring training, I said that scenario wasn’t likely
Regarding all of the young pitchers on the staff, only Keller and Brubaker in my opinion have guaranteed slots as starters
Wilson and Thompson are too erratic as starters and the jury is still out on the younger pitchers with little major league experience.
As far as the bullpen goes, only Bednar deserves any recognition
Shelton in my opinion, overworked some relief pitchers while mismanaged others.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Well, what I want is …….. I want a hamburger, no I want a cheeseburger. I want a hot dog………..
No you will get nothing and like it
Still though from those remaining free agents I do want and not in any particular order
1.) Dansby Swanson
2.) Joey Gallo
3.) Johnny Cueto
For whatever reason, Elias and Ziggy the Super Computer did not want any of the top free agent pitchers and that is fine, but while Cueto isn’t among the top pitchers any more, he certainly can be effecive and give a great veteran presence in the Clubhouse
I want him
Also, since Elias saw fit to extend the LF Wall in OPACY, I think Joey Gallo would be terrific there defensively and if his bat came alive again, even better
Swanson is a more athletic version of JJ Hardy, I also think he is a good ball player and I like him a lot. I want him on the Orioles
That is my wish-list, so let it be written, so let it be done
Catuli Carl
Why do you want Joey Gallo?
DTD/ATL1313
Gallo is a lottery ticket that won’t be expensive and the O’s are a team that would be the perfect fit for that kind of player.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
@DTD
Yes exactly, plus the extended OF (LF) wall
cpdpoet
@Catuli, I think he’s looking for the attorney:
You know…….Jerry Callow
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
@CPDpoet
Callo with a C
cpdpoet
@Lefty…..My day starts with a Caddyshack quote…..brings me back to my country club days, caddying, life-guarding, bartending, valet and short order cook…..And where I learned poker….TY for the memory trip
Glad I am off today, I feel like a beer…
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Hahahaha
JoeBrady
The poker brings back good memories. We always had nickel-dime games growing up. But I remember like it was yesterday when one of our friend’s father finally invited us to his game. It was a 4/8 7-stud game, requiring a solid $200++ to buy in, when minimum wage was about $1.85/hour.
My friend and I walked away with $150-200 in winnings I’m not sure either one of us ever saw that type of money.in our lives. We also couldn’t believe that some of these people were in their 40-50’s, came from The Bronx, and knew nothing about poker.
KamKid
Cueto makes sense for the Orioles. But I think they would have been in a great spot for someone on a multi year deal. There’s almost nothing on the books in the short term and this offseason suggests revenues in the game are healthy and projected to continue to grow. If I were the Orioles , I’d have front loaded a couple multi year contracts as a down payment on a good future roster while a lot of teams are taking out mortgages on their current one. I guess the other way to do that is pre arb extensions. Free up future budget space now.
Led Hoyer
I wouldn’t mind seeing the Cubs sign Gallo. I’d rather see them take a flyer on him over Mancini. Left handed power with solid defense. He’s not far removed from being a pretty valuable player.
fearthecub
Same logic would say if they were interested in Bellinger as a reclamation project, they should be interested in Gallo too. Strong defender (usually) with some positional versatility.
There are worse things they could do.
Manfred Rob's Earth Band
Do you think he could slot in at 1B? The Cubs outfield looks pretty set.
fearthecub
Both Bellinger and Gallo can play OF/1B. Gallo has played 3B in the past, although that’s probably not ideal/realistic moving forward.
TheGreatBaseballMind
I think for where the Cubs are at, Gary Sanchez would be a very good signing for them to pair with Gomes at catcher and to DH at times, too. He wouldn’t command a lot of years and would be affordable. He’s Willson Contreras “lite”.
Samuel
TheGreatBaseballMind;
The Cubs are accentuating pitching, which entails having a catcher that can all a good game and handle a staff. That’s why they let Willson Contreras go.
Gary Sanchez is is not what they’re looking for. The Yankees finally let him go last year, got a catcher that can run a game, and their pitching staff had a great season.
The thing about Gary is this – his reputation is that he’s an offensive catcher. He was that in 2016-17 at a young age. The last 5 years his hitting has been as awful as his catching. I’m not sure he finds a major league contract. He might want to try to stay in shape and hope that if a ML catcher goes out with a long term injury in 2023, his team will bring in Sanchez as a backup.
TheGreatBaseballMind
Perhaps the Cubs should sign Hedges then.
TheGreatBaseballMind
Although if this is the case with the Cubs, wouldn’t of they had signed someone like Hedges by now?
VonPurpleHayes
Bold predictions:
1. Cubs land Swanson.
2. Mets trade for Devers.
3. Padres pick up Kluber.
Simm
Even bolder, padres trade for Devers. Then sign kluber.
JoeBrady
Even bolder, padres trade for Devers.
========================
Or more sensibly, the LAD trade for him to replace J Turner, and the RS sign J Turner to replace Devers.
VonPurpleHayes
Dodgers are trying to stay under the tax.
Pads Fans
Since they won’t be taking on salary like they did with Price, the Dodgers would have to give up a similar package to what they gave up for Betts to get Devers.
JoeBrady
Dodgers are trying to stay under the tax.
========================
The are $33M under, and Devers only costs $16M.
JoeBrady
About right. With Betts, they gave up Verdugo because Betts was taking his position, Downs, because Lux was better, and Wong because Smith was better.
That’s what a trading team should look for. With LAD having Smith for 3 more seasons, Cartaya should be available, and would be a very good starting point.
RunDMC
So in this scenario, BOS loses out on Swanson, presumably, then punts the season and trades Devers?
VonPurpleHayes
Even with Swanson, I don’t think they’re close to the Yankees or Blue Jays. But I also don’t see this as punting. Alvarez for example is a #1 prospect ready to play in the majors now. They would be getting value for Devers immediately before losing him to FA next year.
RunDMC
Can a market like BOS do that, esp with the criticism they’re facing with losing Xander? No big free agents and they allow both their stars to walk in the same offseason for minimal short-term gains. Even I might riot and throw my chamomile into Griffin’s Wharf.
VonPurpleHayes
If they’re not extending Devers, which is a strong possibility, then they need a return for him. Worst case scenario would be losing a star player for nothing.
JoeBrady
But I also don’t see this as punting. Alvarez for example is a #1 prospect ready to play in the majors now.
========================
I wouldn’t think twice about pulling the trigger for either Alvarez or Baty, which exactly why the Mets won’t do it. Both thos guys project to be 3+ WAR players. Trading one year of a 5-WAR for 6 years of a 3+ WAR player is stealing money.
Samuel
RunDMC;
Why should the Red Sox be concerned with “criticism”? They win a WS, 2 months later fans and media are complaining about their off-season moves.
They “lost” Xander? The man got an outrageous contract that was more than 50% over the most optimistic projections from multiple sources. Even the kvetching Red Sox fans aren’t saying they should have beat that contract.
Devers is simply not a player to build a team around. He’s a terrific hitter and has worked hard to make himself into a good ML fielder. But he’s not in good shape, and a team has to be nuts to give him the 10 year contract he’s demanding. The Red Sox are not going to the WS in 2023. If they can get a few decent prospects for him they should.
RunDMC
“concerned with criticism” as in, speaking with the almighty dollar. They’re still dependent on ticket/merch sales/NESN TV ratings like any other team. Don’t act like they don’t need the money.
Yes, they lost their star SS to the Padres. Remember when everyone was concerned with NYY/BOS getting all the free agents — now they’re losing them to the Padres?? I get that was an insane contract – and they did get Story most likely anticipating this.
You called Devers “a terrific hitter” — stop there. That’s all you need. MLB batting average was down across the board in years, and you’ve got this guy you can move to 1B/DH. If they don’t to pay him $300M because he looks like a fan in the stands with a gut — fine, but he’s a guy you build around — or be ok with taking a risk on overpaying a free agent and building around them.
Led Hoyer
I can’t see the Sox trading Devers. They have spent quite of bit of money this off-season. I think it’s more likely the extend him.
VonPurpleHayes
I hope you’re right. I don’t like to see franchise players move, but with Bogaerts gone, I see Devers wanting out.
Ma4170
I think in a devers deal they’d part w baty but not Alvarez, since it’s only for one year. As a met fan I’d love to see devers here, but wishful thinking I’m sure.
Catuli Carl
I hate to say it but I think Jed would be really hesitant to get into a 10+ year contract with a shortstop who’s only really had a couple good years.
WillBaseball
Maybe rightfully so? A shortstop who was traded for shelby miller who was traded for jason heyward, who was also coming off his best year when Chicago signed him.
rememberthecoop
I would normally agree but the Cubs fan convention is coming up and Ricketts publicly said they’re spending money this offseason = being very active in FA. I belive Jed is under pressure to sign Swanson. That said, they will regret paying 25M per year over 8 years for this guy. He just isn’t a star. Good player, and it’s not my money, but not a star.
ARC 2
It should be who will over pay for Swanson? One of the remaining desperate will throw a huge contract to him.
Simm
I’ll go with the red Sox. They are under the most pressure from the fan base to do something.
Next I’ll go the twins followed by the dodgers.
Think the ship has sailed for a braves reunion.
ARC 2
It will come down to who gives him the most years. Anything over 5 years means somebody caved. Braves will probably pass because they have some internal options.
rememberthecoop
The other 3 got the years so you’re right – Dansby wants it too. 8 years, 200M is what it’s going to take IMO and that my friends is an overpay.
rememberthecoop
You’re ignoring the Cubs. Talk about being under pressure from their fan base…Ricketts publicly promised we’d spend big and Jed isnunder pressure to bring in a SS. Not going to be worth jt of course, but they’re desperate.
Samuel
Simm;
I don’t know why the Red Sox are even in the conversation.
When they signed Story it was obvious that he was going to be their future SS. They have other options at 2B for 2023, and if one of those doesn’t look like a long-term solution at 2B they’ll look for someone else for 2024. They’re not about to drop $200m on Swanson – he’s not exactly the missing piece to the puzzle.
Simm
Considering what the red Sox got for betts who was a more complete player then Devers it would be interesting what someone would be willing to trade for him.
When you wait until their final year it a lot of times doesn’t bring back the haul you really want. That’s why the nationals were smart to trade Soto last year once they couldn’t get a deal done.
Either way the last thing you can do if you are the red Sox is let him go to free agency. You risk losing him for near nothing or have to pay him even more in the open market.
Sox need to either lock him up now or trade him and get the most you can. Of course if you trade him there will be a lot backlash from Sox fans.
Not a great place to be in if your the Sox. If I’m Devers I’m going to want a deal we’ll north of 300m. He us actually young enough that in today’s long term deals he could get a 14 year deal in free agency. Not impossible to see him get 350-400m if he signed for 14 years.
ARC 2
Red sox are getting desperate since they compete so much with NYY.
rememberthecoop
Devers is a poor defensive 3B. Where would you play him? I get that his bat plays big-time but teams that value defense won’t give up a lot for a rental without a position.
sovietcanuckistanian
the Jays (Atkins & co) I think mis-gauged the market and/or value for thier catchers. Don’t get me wrong all are pretty good to great in thier own right, but, Atkins and Co clearly anticipated other teams not dipping thier toes in the the catching FA pool as much as they had.
Simm
Idk, I think there are still teams out there that would trade for one of their catchers. The list has definitely shrunk but I don’t think the one they were looking to move was going to bring back a ton. They will still likely trade one of them for something decent.
Jaysfan1981
I think AZ and TO fit too well as trade partners. They both have what each other wants but each are trying to max out on the other
Samuel
sovietcanuckistanian;
Agreed.
I think the Jays held out waiting for a team to overpay in trade because they need a top-flite C. It appears that those looking for catching went elsewhere. But I see something else…..
I read fans on here as well as many in the national media talking up the prowess of the Jays 3 catchers. From their actions it doesn’t appear that MLB FO’s feel the same way. Jansen is a good catcher that many teams would like to have. But he only has 2 years of control left. There’s only so high teams will go in trading for him. Kirk can surely hit and seems to handle pitchers well. But he’s never caught over half a season, and isn’t exactly physically fit. No doubt that Gabriel Moreno can hit, and he has played a lot of years at C. He seems to have the best potential upside. As such it’s quite possible that the Jays would prefer to keep him – but if they do trade him they’re going to want a large haul. Non-ML-established 22 year-olds can be risky to take on let alone turnover 3 quality players in trade.
To me Jansen is the one most likely to get traded. But the catchers that teams acquired this offseason came cheaper than if they had met the Jays trade price.
fearthecub
Cubs should trade for Jansen, but only if the price is right. Wouldn’t overpay, but he’s a local kid and would be a nice fit.
Or, trade for McCann/Carrasco/Ruf in a salary dump trade with the Mets, if they eat some/most of the money and take minimal return in a trade package. Maybe the Cubs could even get a decent prospect for taking on some of the salary. All 3 guys would benefit from a change of scenery.
TheGreatBaseballMind
I agree with your Jansen proposal, fearthecub.
Jaysfan1981
Ian Happ plus a prospect for Jansen
TheGreatBaseballMind
Cubs would say no thank you.
Jaysfan1981
The Jays would say, what’s your counter?
TheGreatBaseballMind
Good reply, Jaysfan1981. Your response made me smile because you are right. I think Martinez would be of interest to the Cubs but I also think at this point the Cubs would have to be overwhelmed to trade Happ as I believe they are planning going into 2023 competing for a playoff spot. That *probably* changes come the trade deadline as I do not project the Cubs to be in the playoff hunt and they would be in a clearer position then to trade Happ. I think they would be better to hold onto Happ and sign Sanchez versus trading Happ for say Jansen and Martinez at this point. I just checked and Jansen has only 2 more years before he is a free agent. Not that the Cubs or Blue Jays couldn’t resign either player. What if the Cubs countered Moreno and Martinez for Happ?
Jaysfan1981
Orelvis Martinez and Moreno? I believe that’s a non starter.
Im not going to and usually don’t go to BTV to compare, I just feel that’s a monumental ask for Happ.
I’d be willing to go Jansen/Gurriel/Biggio for Happ/Suzuki
TheGreatBaseballMind
I think that’s what the Cubs would want to move Happ at this time. I do not think the Cubs will trade him until the deadline. Jays could sign Peralta as a left handed bat that wouldn’t cost too much.
JaysForDayz
Jays don’t need to trade a catcher, so if you’re not getting good value, why accept less? Injuries happen, so more teams can come shopping or you may need that 3rd guy yourself. Plus, Moreno can play other positions besides catcher, unlike most. Jays hold all the cards and can afford to wait to get their price.
Jaysfan1981
I think its still prudent the Jays trade a C. Moreso for the morale of the players.
Even as good at the plate as they are, it’s not ideal to run 3 C in the same lineup ( Jansen C Kirk DH Moreno 2nd)
Love Jansen but he’s probably odd man out as he’s got least control
Kirk and Moreno only go for blockbuster type trades
Idosteroids
Mets are up to something. Have 4 catchers of the roster?
VonPurpleHayes
Devers is my guess. That gives their lineup the extra pop they want. They can deal Escobar and a prospect or McCann (if they eat salary) and a prospect. Perhaps even Carrasco. Not all of the above, just some kind of combination.
Simm
You listed a bunch of trash for Devers.
Zero percent chance that happens.
VonPurpleHayes
The key is the prospects. Alvarez is projected as a future All-Star. And he’s MLB ready. Sox would make the deal for him alone if they aren’t extending Devers. I’m not a Mets fan boosting their prospects either. I hate the Mets, but Alvarez is a stud.
yogineely
No, you don’t give up a perennial all star for a prospect. No matter how high he is on a ranking board. That would require a giant package
VonPurpleHayes
He’s a FA at the end of the year. If the Sox don’t extend him, he’s gone for nothing. Also, not being controllable means the return isn’t going to be huge.
Idosteroids
With one year left on his contract….i’d expect a third to half-ish of what the nats got for Soto. Do you think he wants to return to the Red Sox. Seems like Bloom is running the Red Sox straight into a rebuild..
Idosteroids
Halfish seems high….but current market is crazy and people can over pay.
VonPurpleHayes
Soto had 4 years of control when he was traded. Devers is a FA at the end of this season. I think the Sox get less than half of the Soto package for Devers.
Idosteroids
Seems reasonable. I dont really see why the red sox hold onto him. They are clearly in the bottom half of that division.
Simm
Soto had 2.5 years of control left when he was traded.
Still it will be less then half specially when you add in Soto is a better player.
Prob still gets you a top 100 guy maybe 2 depend on how high they are rated. Perhaps plus a flyer or two. Unless they go with controlled young mlb players.
Ma4170
Yeah, betts deal can be a comp, but betts was better then than devers now. He was elite defensively and more complete offensively. They basically got verdugo – a top 25 prospect who had a promising first year and a barely top 100 prospect in downs (who hasn’t panned out). Seeing devers isn’t as good, a package of baty and Mauricio isn’t far off (baty is top 20 and mauricio was top 100). Boston won’t do it and I don’t think the Mets will either, but that’s prob the neighborhood for one year of a top tier bat who can’t field.
Pads Fans
The Red Sox are not letting Devers go for peanuts. Start with Baty and Alvarez and build a package on top of them,
Pads Fans
The Red Sox will get at least as much for Devers as they did for Betts,Price. In that trade the Dodgers bought down the prospect cost by taking on half of Price’s salary. No chance to do that here.
Verdugo was the Dodgers #1 prospect, #35 overall in baseball, and was coming off a season where he hit .294 with a .817 OPS in LA. Downs was a Top 50 prospect.
So start with that level of return going back to the Red Sox for Devers. That means both Alvarez and Baty are a must. Then add one or two low level prospects to the deal. NOW you have something the Red Sox would consider.
Pads Fans
So less than 4 top 100 prospects plus one that will be in 2023? OK, just Alvarez and Baty plus a low level prospect.
Ma4170
You’ve got to be kidding. Baty and Alvarez are two top 20 prospects in all of MLB. Devers for a year, basically an excellent DH if you want to be honest, wouldn’t sniff that. If he does get traded, he’ll get a top 50, a borderline top 100, and a lottery ticket.
YourDreamGM
Someone might get a bargain on Swanson if NY or Cali isn’t in on him.
Idosteroids
What do you consider a bargin?
YourDreamGM
Under 200 million would be a reasonable bargain in this market. Under 160 would be a steal. You rather have just Correa or Swanson and Rodon? Just turner or Swanson Taillon Quintana? He might surprise and get 250 million or something. The teams mentioned above seem cheap to me if late.
Not a super star but on a team without one he could be. Good looking. Soccer wife. I’d have them doing all kinds of charity work. Make him available for the media. Lots of commercials. Very marketable.
Led Hoyer
I can see Dansby getting a Baez/Story type deal.
RunDMC
If he only gets $140M being the final FA, in this market, he needs to be like Freddie Freeman and fire his agent (same agent). Great player/person, but inconsistent bat — he’s not worth it.
Led Hoyer
He might get way more, no clue. 6-7 years 22-25 aav seems like a reasonable contract. I definitely wouldn’t classify him as a superstar.
scottaz
Dbacks are looking for a backup catcher, so they might be interested in the Jays backup catchers. However, backup catchers are worth virtually nothing. Dbacks will overpay for a backup catcher by offering former 1st round pick 1b/corner OF Pavin Smith.
Jaysfansince92
No way the Jays do that. All of the Jays’ three catchers are starter caliber. You’re not going to get them for backup catcher prices.
Jaysfan1981
None of the Jays C are backups. The Jays “backup” Catcher probably plays in AA or AAA this year.
If you traded for any of the Jays C they would immediately become your starter.
All 3 of the Jays C would probably start on 85% of the teams in MLB.
That would be no different than our fan base saying…. “hey you have 5 OFs, you can’t play them all. Jays need another OF but not really Keirmier is enough. Corner OF (Varsho primarily played RF) are a dime a dozen, he’s basically a backup now that Carroll is coming up. We’ll give you a bag of balls AND you pay 50% of his salary till free agency. Varsho and KK are identical players basically, so it’s not imperative we take him off your hands, actually make it 75% and throw in an A ball lotto ticket.
highheat
@Jaysfan1981, that’s the joke. People ARE saying that about the DBacks CFs (I seem to recall you doing that exact same thing when we all insisted that Carroll was more valuable than Moreno and was untouchable; both still true statements). Except it’s been going on almost all offseason. It’s obnoxious; I’m sure that you can agree.
BTW, that’s also not entirely the same argument. Carroll, Varsho, Thomas, and McCarthy can all be played at the same time without a defensive hit by using LF/CF/RF/DH since they’re good defensive options in those positions and all have the platoon advantage the majority of the time (and Varsho was a better RF than Betts while also being a plus CF and playing C; that’s not a dime a dozen).
Kirk/Jansen/Moreno can go into C/DH and one of 3B/2B/LF technically. But do you really not have a better option at those positions than a C with hit/arm as their carrying tools?
The point isn’t that that either team should sell from their surplus for pennies on the dollar. The point is that the DBacks are better situated to leverage their surplus into current value; the only clear way the Jay’s accomplish that is dealing from their surplus.
highheat
P.S. it should be obvious that anybody that says that the Jays Catchers are backups is trolling lol. They’re all great players, there are only so many spots to play.
Jaysfan1981
Recall me doing the exact same thing??
I dont undervalue your OFs at all. I am enamored by them.
The notion Carroll and Moreno can’t be traded for one another has nothing to do with one’s miles better than the other, it seems to come from the idea prospects don’t get traded for one another. That’s where my opinion differs, not because of history because most are right, it’s rare. But not impossible, and this trade idea significantly helps both.
I’ll even conceed Carroll may be thought of as more valuable by MLB front offices, so then the Jays may need to add a little bit more to that deal.
What I don’t agree with and would not want to see is Kirk dealt str8 up for Varsho. Kirk’s bat is too elite for his position to give up for a maybe. Varsho could be the next version of Jim Edmonds or Anthony Gose, too soon to tell.
highheat
Carroll would absolutely fetch more than Moreno; I’m not trying to belittle Moreno when I say that because he has a great collection of tools and is a really good player, but Carroll just turned himself into that good of a prospect.
DBacks aren’t averse to prospect for prospect trades, they actually gave up slightly more control of Jazz Chisholm to get Zac Gallen, just straight up. If they thought that it was a good deal it would’ve been made already.
The dude was the fastest runner in the MLB (so 80 grade speed), provided plus defense immediately (so at least a 60 grade glove; 23 year olds generally get better with experience), and handled MLB pitching well enough to project an above average batting line (a 55 grade bat on initial call-up). Do you remember the days when Billy Hamilton was called up and everybody fantasized about the chaos he could create if he had a halfway decent OBP? This is pretty close to Billy Hamilton with more than decent OBP (and a bit of pop).
It’s going to be his rookie season, and the conservative estimate from ZiPS is that he’ll be worth 3.9 WAR. That’s with ZiPS knowing that he missed extended development time against LHP due to injury and will likely struggle heavily against MLB LHPs as a result.
I wouldn’t deal away a guy that has all the tools to be an elite Leadoff hitter and CF defender and all the performance to suggest that he can realize that level for anything short of a franchise altering return. That is not Moreno for the DBacks; especially with the changes for pickoffs/bases.
As far as Varsho goes, his value is as high as it is because his defense gives him a tremendous floor. I’m serious, look up his DRS/UZR/OAA/RAA (better known as every defensive metric hosted on FG) last season compared to the best fielders in the game. He’s comparable or exceeding them by almost every metric.
The problem with projecting defense is that we need about 3 seasons worth of data to have anything approaching accuracy, and it’s preferred that there’s more data. Varsho has only been playing OF in any capacity for 3 seasons, do you see where the problem in projecting Varsho’s defense comes in?
FWIW, he’s projected for 3.1 WAR by Steamer and 2.6 WAR by ZiPS, both with defensive values only slightly above average. My money is on Varsho being closer to 5 WAR than either of those numbers, and he’s controlled for 4 seasons. Hence the high evaluation. I wouldn’t trade Varsho straight up for Kirk either, so I don’t think you have to worry about that lol
Jaysfan1981
Appreciate your responses. We’ll thought out and knowledgeable.
Look forward to breaking down a potential future AZ TO trade
BaseballisLife
A catcher is always more valuable than an OF, even a CF. You can turn a failed SS into a good CF but you can’t turn a SS into a catcher.
Old York
The window for trading the Jays catchers was last year at the deadline. I don’t think they get good value for their catchers now. Should have traded Kirk last year when he was on top of his game.
TheBoatmen
Hmm if only there was an award that showed how good a hitter Kirk was by the end of the season. Something in a silver would be nice.
Old York
His value was at the trade deadline in the summer not December 2022. Now, none of the teams are interested in the position so what do the Jays have to show for it? Nothing… Great management!
Jaysfan1981
I’d argue Kirk’s value is higher now than last year. He’s still got years of control. It’s not like he’s a FA after this year.
Even if he was, he’s good enough to still get a nice peice back with 0 control
Not really sure where you’re getting your valuation from. But would love to hear it
TheGreatBaseballMind
Your reply did make me laugh, TheBoatmen. No doubt Kirk can hit and overall his offensive numbers look great but his offense after the All Star break did go down a lot. I wonder if teams think his conditioning and body wear down and affect his offense as the season progresses?
TheBoatmen
I think it was more to do with him playing every day and the Jays were tinkering with the lineup because they were not scoring as a team. Kirk was anywhere from 4th to 8th. I don’t think batting cleanup was good for him though. Too young for that responsibility although he seemed to be good in clutch situations.
toomanyblacksinbaseball
Platoon catchers will be the trend with rotation at DH.
scottaz
Platoon = backup catcher
kripes-brewers
I’m totally dreaming, but I think the Crew should bring in Cueto. They need bats, particularly at 3B, but there just isn’t a whole lot out there. We saw what happened last year when the front line rotation guys went on the IL, and a guy like Cueto would be quality protection.
tiredolddude
I’m kind of amazed at what the Dodgers have done this off season. Not a fan, and I don’t know their plans or farm very well, but they’re going to go into a season with an entire new left side of the infield? Seems to me they’d overpay for Swanson
VonPurpleHayes
They’ve been over the lux tax for 2 years and paying penalties. They’re resetting this year. Signing Swanson would ruin that plan.
Dennis Boyd
Lux tax? Is that the penalty Dodgers will be paying by going with mediocre Gavin Lux as SS this year?
VonPurpleHayes
That was pretty good.
Ricetto
Dodgers have the second best farm system in MLB. they’re obviously trying to reset the luxury tax in order to sign Ohtani to his 500 million dollar contract next season.
Fred 20
Love to see Benitendi in Cinci as well as Tucker Barnhardt back. If someone would only take a washed up 1b that makes about 30 m. And Mous for 20. Anybody?
sliderwithcheeze
There’s a reason Swanson is the the last one left. That reason is he sucks.
Idosteroids
You sound angry. Did he nail your sister or something? Hes not as awful as you are proclaiming.
sliderwithcheeze
No one nails my sister except for myself.
VonPurpleHayes
Just because he isn’t the same level as the other 3 doesn’t mean he sucks.
Brew88
Unlike the other 3, Swanson’s early years in the league were subpar and that seems to have shaped a lot of opinions. It took him a few years to become the good hitter he is now.
NashvilleJeff
Swanson, like most players, is also much better when he’s healthy. A wrist issue, a heel injury, and being promoted to Atlanta a year too soon slowed him when he was younger. He’s been (relatively) healthy the last 3 years. Not a coincidence that his numbers improved. Brew88’s right.
yogineely
I won’t count him out of making a major move but I also will never pencil one of his teams in the post season. Dude is a waste
prov356
I think the Angels are a good bet on signing Swanson. Moreno is spending because he is selling the team and wants a good product to sell and he wants to pretend he’s serious about winning to entice Ohtani to stay. Plus we need a SS.
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WoooOoooOoooooo Let’s GoooOoooOoo!!!!
TheGreatBaseballMind
Signing with Atlanta is best for Swanson AND the Braves. The Braves need a shortstop and the other teams that need a shortstop, they’re not going to commit the years and dollars to sign Swanson as a core to build around. The problem is money. Swanson wants a lot while the Braves are most likely at their budget ceiling.
piersall55
Fevers will never sign an extension with the sox! They will never offer anything close to what he will get in FA! The sox are seeing up 5th place for the next five years.
johndietz
Andrew Benintendi would be a solid signing with the rule changes. I think the change with the shift lefties benefit the most
charlesk
Gabriel Moreno & Orelvis Martinez for Bryan Abreu and a young Astros starter?