The Astros and Justin Verlander remain “far apart” in discussions about a new contract, reports Jon Heyman of the New York Post. The nine-time All-Star is part of a trio of top free agent starters alongside Jacob deGrom and Carlos Rodón.
The biggest stumbling block seems to be on the AL Cy Young winner’s desire for a third guaranteed season. Heyman writes that Verlander is seeking a deal around $130MM over three years — the same figure received by former teammate Max Scherzer from the Mets last winter. Houston owner Jim Crane similarly suggested Verlander was pointing to the Scherzer contract as precedent last month.
The Scherzer deal indeed seems the closest comparison to Verlander, although their situations aren’t perfectly analogous. While both are all-time great pitchers still pitching near the top of their games deeper into their careers, a three-year bet on Scherzer was probably easier for a team to stomach than that same term for Verlander. Scherzer signed in advance of his age-37 season, while the latter will be three years older at the start of his next contract. Verlander’s two years removed from a Tommy John procedure that cost him almost all of the 2020-21 campaigns, but he’s bounced back to pitch at pre-surgery levels this year. Scherzer had avoided any injury of that magnitude in the past decade, topping 170 innings in every full season since 2008 before this year.
While that seems to tip things in Scherzer’s favor, their pure performance track records are mostly without complaint. Verlander had a 1.75 ERA across 175 innings this past season; Scherzer posted a 2.46 mark in 2021. The latter missed more bats, striking out 34.1% of opponents against Verlander’s 27.8% mark. Fanning just under 28% of opponents is still excellent for a starting pitcher, though, and Verlander maintained top-tier control while sitting in the mid-90s with his fastball.
Chandler Rome of the Houston Chronicle reported in November that Crane was reluctant to offer more than a two-year deal in the $60-70MM range. That’s shy of the Scherzer deal both by a year and a decent amount of annual salary ($30-35MM versus $43.333MM). It’s unclear if Houston has shown any willingness to raise their proposed salary figure in the few weeks since then, but Heyman reports they’re still opposed to a three-year guarantee.
Were Verlander to leave Houston, he’d draw no shortage of interest from the league’s big-market behemoths. He has already had meetings with the Dodgers and Mets, and Heyman has previously suggested the Yankees are also in the market.
WELCOME TO PHILLY JUSTIN!
Common Astros, just “fall into the Gap”
Don’t forget to also welcome Kate Upton
Kate’s mom is from Texas.
@darkside, ALL that money off the books, combined with last years of signings and the Wheeler contract…..best window IS NOW……..
C’mon Dombrowski/Middleton!
Will be stoked to watch Suarez start the second series of 2023…..
I’m a Phillies fan and doubt very much the FO is interested. They’ll spend money this winter on an infielder – like Turner – at least one #3-4 SP on a 1-2 year deal and in the bullpen. They are really hoping their young trio of Painter, Abel and McGarry will be ready soon.
I look at the Orioles and think I’d rather have 3 years of Verlander at 40 mil a year, than 2 guys at 15-20 a year. I’m sure in verlanders case it’s more of getting him to want to come to Baltimore, but I feel like some teams end up spending the money regardless
I think he would go to the Orioles if he could get the money he wants. He’d probably go anywhere that would pay him Scherzer-type money.
I can see him getting Scherzer type money. Maybe not beating it but getting fairly close. I think Baltimore would have to beat it. At this stage I think he would take 5 or 10 million less total to live where he wants or to be on a stronger contender.
He wants 300 wins , that will not be as guaranteed to happen with the Orioles as it would with Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, etc
56 away……?
Hope he gets there, my money though is him “limping” to get there after he finishes his 3yr deal with the Phillies…..Where he’ll get his final 10-15 should be interesting….
Scherzer/Verlander reunion in Queens. Good ol’ days are back again.
emphasis on ol’
By good ol’ days do you mean more losing? If you do then yes if they’re both on the Mets it’ll be just like the good ‘ol days.
The Mets may be the only organization crazy enough to give 3yrs $20 mil.
*$120 mil.
Verlander wants to go to a team that is in win now mode. Orioles are another year away.
I can totally see JV going to the Mets or the Dodgers.
Quite a few pundits see him returning to the Astros but I’m not subscribing to that theory.
Mets
You haven’t watched the Orioles have you? This is their best chance to win by tweaking their roster. The team is insane on offense, just needs pitching.
20th in batting average, 22nd in OBP, 14th in slugging, 15th in homers, 20th in runs scored. Some might define that as insane; I would define that as average-to-below average.
They also have a roster full of young guys who might be good-to-great or might struggle to be consistent at the big league level as most of them have so little experience at this point.
“The team is pretty average on offense” fixed it for you.
@websoulsearcher: agreed, 24 is the yr for Os. It could have possibly been 23 but because of injuries, LSP Hall got delayed and RSP Rodriguez didn’t leave AAA. Can’t see Verlander coming here with a group of starters still getting acclimated to the bigs.
Okay, you got me with the stats. I would have thought they were better from watching them, especially by their talent and running game, but giving an arbitrary date of 2024 is foolish. They could compete for 2023 and were a few games behind wild card in 2023. The AL East is insane. You don’t plan to win in a year with that much talent. You plan to win now
Orioles are closer than people think. That is a talented, young team. Just need a couple pieces on each side to start contending for a WC.
Father Time is undefeated, it will come for Justin and a team is going to be stuck paying him 40+ mil a year to suck.
Prob won’t happen next year but still that’s a lot.
Yup! As a Mets Fan, I aint taking that chance if it’s my money. I’ll take another chance at deGrom,and definitely Rodon, but not a 40 year old. Yeah, I know he was the best in 22, but there’s gonna be a day and quite frankly that day almost always seems to come when The Mets are involved!
No more mediocre alleged DH’s either. Pete needs someone that is going to guarantee he will get pitches to hit! Mets have already proven that isnt gonna work, so why do it again? Get a legitimate power bat and resign Nimmo already! I swear so far this is my least favorite off season in a really long time. after winning 101 games, right now I am not sure we can win 81 next season!
Now is the opportunity for the Pirates to sneak in to the Verlander sweepstakes and get their coveted ace
Offer him 5% ownership stake
Dusty, I hear you. I said the same about the Yanks and Judge the other day. At this point his career and as wealthy as he is, I would think JV would want another ring most of all. He could go anywhere he wants but he wants to break records. I have NO idea at this point where he ends up…
I can narrow it down for you. NYY, NYM, SDP, LAD, SFG, PHI, HOU. TEX is on the fringe, but is not in Win now mode and he wants his 300 Ws. No other teams are able to pay that amount, or are unwilling.
You could say that about any free agent, because those are the large market teams that can afford them.
3 guaranteed years for a 40 y.o. is over-reach.
I would pass all day long on this
You could get a whole starting pitching staff for that.
You have been a Reds fan to long if you want a complete starting rotation for 40 million.
I mean, the Astros already have, even throwing McCullers in the mix the 6 guys they have (LMJ, Garcia, Javier, Urquidy, Brown, Valdez) combined cost about one-half to one-third of what Verlander does.
McCullers is making 16 million this year. The have a deferred payment to Grienke for 12.5. Arbitration numbers haven’t come out yet. It’s more then you are implying.
Well, not in a large market that overpays.
Still, the Tigers got Boyd for 10 million. 4 guys like that wouldn’t be a bad staff.
Of course, we got three solid young ones for a four year period at least that will be way under that. After that, probably will lose them to large markets. The curse of the small market club.
What about two and an option?
I was thinking does he or is he willing to take a deferred contract like the Mets did with Diaz. 3 year contract but the money spreads out over 10 year time frame.
Vince: I’m in the same ballpark as you. I’m thinking 2 yrs w a vesting 3rd year.
Astros are smart, but never desperate for a single player (think injury history Springer/Correa n now JV). Take 2yrs JV on a winner for high AAV or no thanks. If he walks, who cares b/c they are so good they’ll wait to see at deadline what much younger hot starters are available and pounce. Good business is never act in desperation! Destined for deep pockets LAD who can outspend mistakes (like Bauer).
I never felt confident about staying in Houston. I think he would love to but Houston has strong starting rotation without him. He will need to leave money on the table to stay.
cwsAscension;
I’ve read elsewhere that the Dodgers have money problems. Yes, even the Dodgers can spend too much on payroll. The Bauer thing along with handing out too many lucrative contracts appears to have caught up with them. Threatening to use Lux at SS is not a negotiating ploy, it may well be what they have to do.
that’s a load of BS. as a SD fan I’d love for it to be true but the reality is they have a number of very good prospects ready for the show and they’re going to play them. I believe they’re giving 3rd base to Vargas and bringing a couple of pitchers up. they’ll make a big fa splurge but I don’t think it’ll be on a SS. one of the aces and I don’t think you can count them out on judge. they’ll attempt to stay under the LTT cause that’s been Friedman’s mo every couple of years. if young guys flop(dodger player development makes it less likely than anywhere else) they’ll make a scherzer\turner type of trade at the deadline and continue to be among the very best teams in baseball again and again
This totally incorrect. The dodgers had somewhere around 565m in revenue last season. They aren’t hurting at all. At the same time with tax penalties, the added Cohen tax line now. It makes senses that every 3 years a team would like to reset the tax.
The dodgers can do this because of the number of high end prospects that need time to play. Friedman has said that they will give time to these players. Doesn’t mean they won’t add a big guy or so because they still have some room under the tax right now. They are about to have to make big decisions on ruiz and walker soon.
The dodgers had somewhere around 565m in revenue last season. They aren’t hurting at all.
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I wouldn’t be too sure about that. According to the figures I read, their payroll was $310.6M, plus a payroll tax of $47M, a total of $357.6M, leaving a net before all other employees, all other OH and before interest and depreciation, of only $207.6M
That $207M becomes $200M after just Friedman’s salary. And how much do they chip in for revenue sharing?
And where pray tell did you read that the Dodgers had “money problems”? lol
Where can we find this article and why hasn’t mlbtr done a article? Did I miss it?
Dodgers facing financial disaster would be a great headline to get traffic.
If it were even vaguely true it would be fantastic clickbait. The Dodgers can have a $300 million payroll every season and still have a nice net profit.
Is Samuel not a reliable source of information?
Dodgers can have a $300 million payroll every season and still have a nice net profit.
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I’d make a small wager that it is less than 5% of the team value.
What does team value have to do with it?
That isn’t real money unless it’s leveraged
With billionaire owners thats all their really worried about. Owners aren’t using baseball teams to supplement their yearly income. Their big paydays are when they sell the team.
Exactly. When they do.
5% of the value of the business in a single year? Holy spit! Where do I sign up for that level of profit?
That is about $200 million or 35% of their annual revenue. Most business owners would be doing cartwheels at a 10% after tax net.
I think it was alluded to in the latest Ken Rosenthal piece in the Athletic.
I read elsewhere with out a link or reference to the publication is the equivalent of saying my wife’s cousins friends sister told me.
Good ol Samuel.
You talk like the Astros have been good for thirty years when in reality it’s only been five of the last six years.
6 straight ALCS so it hasn’t been 5 of the last 6 years
They had a losing record in 2020. So yes its 5 out of six years.
There was a world wide pandemic going on and with a losing record they still made it to the final four teams. Record means nothing compared to where you finish the season. Should the dodgers be proud they just won 111 games and got knocked out in the first round ?
Yes the Dodgers should. Baseball teams control how they are built for the regular season. The postseason is a crapshoot. That’s why their hasn’t been repeat winners in over two decades. A losing team has no business being in the postseason no matter how the playoffs turn out. Baseball is a game of inches and bloops. Anything can happen in a short series. By all means the Astros are a great team. Let’s just not get carried away about how better run they are then everyone else. Every team has has a great five year run.
I repeat 6 straight ALCS. How about we talk when the Mets don’t choke and make it that far
1 game away from the WS. In my book that is a pretty good year.
The Tigers do not appear to be trying to be competitive and….
That is the question.
Whether ’tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, And, by opposing, end them?
Hirenthe Superfife. I am, prepared to go.to Japan.
Is that Justin Bieber or Taylor Swift? Whichever one, profound lyrics man….
No way man, that’s from Game of Thrones
JV going back to Detroit? Tis a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Yankees, Dodgers, and Mets. Free agency rumors reporting is such a broken record. This would be interesting if V signed with, say, Milwaukee, Rodon with KC, Judge with Oakland, Rodon with Miami. Otherwise its just same old same old.
A big free agent going to a non contender would be interesting but not exciting.
So if SFG sign a FA its not exciting? As is, you can’t call them contenders. Their likely spending will make them one, however.
No way Yankees pay that much, imho. Perhaps if they don’t get Judge(?). But, as a matter of their current MO, I don’t see that type of deal being added to their roster.
I believe the Mets are the clear favorite if he sticks to his contractual demands.
I’m with you Clipper. The chance to pair Max with JV is too much for Cohen to pass up.
you think he’d prefer JV to degrom at similar price tags?
The more time goes by the less optimistic I am.
After the World Series I was sure he would return to the Astros.
Since then it has felt less and less likely by the day.
It’s Carlos Correa all over again.
The most important thing to the player is more years.
The most important thing to the owner is fewer years.
Unlike most teams the Astros are never the ones to blink.
They lost Dallas Keuchel, Charlie Morton, George Springer, Gerritt Cole, Carlos Correa, and most likely now Justin Verlander.
And always have the answer to keep competing.
As a fan of the team it’s great.
As a fan of the players it sucks.
Well, you do have those two World Series trophies to keep you warm at night. There’s that.
two World Series trophies to keep you warm at night. There’s that.
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That’s my response to all the RS fans that hate Henry. I have 4 WSC sweatshirts to keep me warm.
I didn’t like the answer to replacing Morton. Paying more money and giving up prospects for a lesser pitcher was awful.
Didn’t Morton just want to be closer to home?
“They lost Dallas Keuchel, Charlie Morton, George Springer, Gerritt Cole, Carlos Correa, and most likely now Justin Verlander” (and don’t forget Joe Musgrove)
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Right or wrong, outside of Houston, nobody is celebrating those World Series rings. That may be unfortunate as it appears this year was legitimate, but when a former Astros player like Joe Musgrove says “I want one that feels earned and is a true championship”, it means something. That’s not an internet troll, that’s a World Series champion player.
Verlander may want a break from that association. I was shocked that he initially went back TBH.
Time will tell, but Pete Rose nor Shoeless Joe (Black Sox) are in the Hall of Fame. Sosa, McGwire, Clemens, and Bonds. Baseball fans have long memories and poster boys often come to the surface as scapegoats. Altuve and Bregman seem to be those guys. No, they’re not at a Pete Rose level. But there’s a stain there.
So again, Verlander may want to distance himself and go with a new final chapter of his career. If I was his counsel, I would definitely recommend that route.
This is not new news. I doubt Crane is interested in JV for more than the $30-35M/yr for 2 years originally reported. He might make an exception on AAV for JV but still at a discount vs market given no state tax in Texas, but won’t go over 2 years unless club option for 3rd, or performance based for 3rd. JV will get a guaranteed $130M 3-year deal from someone, just not the Astros.
Nonsense. Nice try at a typical story from jealous fans outside Houston though. He’s very proud of his 2 World Series rings. He just wants market price for his services at the last 3-5 years of his career. He’s indicated he’ll pitch till he’s 45. If Crane offered him $130M over 3 years guaranteed it would be done deal. But Crane will not. Stros will be fine without him. That’s been the view in Houston all along and nothing has changed.
Sonny from the view? He without sin…
Gaylord doctored the ball but is a HOF. The stain is green. Not from envy, but from money in the hands.
Right or wrong, nobody cares what you think
Nor do they you Valkyrie. Internet is fun.
If 2022 is as legit as it appears to be, Verlander won’t distance himself. He would know better than us if it’s legit or not. Musgrove can say whatever he wants, but unless he threw his world series ring in the trash, what he has to say is irrelevant.
dirkg, Musgrove probably feels his ring wasn’t earned because of his trash performances in the 2017 playoffs
Musgrove never mentioned any context.
WHY does he feel he didn’t earn that ring?
Assuming it has anything to do with the cheating scandal is an assumption.
Maybe it’s because he was not one of the regular starters or that he had a losing record on a World Serues winning team. Maybe it’s because he had an ERA+ of 86 or that he gave up 6 runs ( all earned) in 6 2/3 innings in the playoffs.
I would agree that his pitching did not really improve the Astros chances of winning that year.
Maybe that’s why he feels he didn’t earn it.
What? They can’t use any of those gambling winnings from 2017?
If a team is shopping at the very top of the pitching market this off-season, I think Verlander is still the safest bet.
Degrom can’t seem to stay on the field and we all know of Rodon’s health issues.
I think two years with a team option gets it done as long as the aav is in line with Scherzer’s contract.
Verlander is legit. Not at the price of 40-45 million annually for 3 years. Too much risk and he is not as dominant in the playoffs as the regular season. As an Astros fan I would happily watch the team go forward with adding to the offense and move forward with our current in house options. Let the competition bid one another higher and higher. If Verlander won’t budge on the 3 years then he will join Correa, Springer, Cole and keuchel with signing elsewhere and continuing to search for another ring.
I’d rather give him 3 years at 30 35 million vs 2 at 40 45
It’s always way more prudent to pay a higher AVV with less years than vice versa.
Unless they stay healthy and productive and you get that additional year for half or a third of what they are worth. If someone is focused on total money instead of avv I’d rather do the extra year vs getting into a bidding war.
It’s always way more prudent to pay a higher AVV with less years
The margin counts just as much.
On the top range DreamGM uses, $105M/3 v $90M/2, you are buying one extra year for $15M. That’s a gamble I would be happy to make.
It’s like Bryce Harper wanting three more years so his total contract was higher than Stanton’s.. The difference between $330M/13 or the Philly offer of $300M/10, is $30M/3. He’ll be well into decline, but $30M/3 at ages 36-38 is probably still a good deal for the Phillies.
That “unless they stay healthy and productive” is a massive caveat. It’s exceptionally rare that players maintain the same level of performance that got to the contract in the first place.
Joe: i disagree with your point. and DreamGM’s hypothetical never happens in reality. Not mention that Philly would be much better off having a large contract off the books and not having to pay for declining years.
Bye bye JV. We have Hunter, Framber, McCullers, Javier, Garcia and Urquidy. Let us use your money on more needs
Don’t forget Brown
Hunter is Brown’s first name so
I think he’ll be with the Mets after all said an done. Houston has enough pitching for all the hitting they have now, and who knows what they’ll get without paying Justin. Can he get to 300 without being on the Astros ? The Mets might be a way, and so might the Dodgers as well. It’ll be interesting to see what he decides.
I’m guessing Philly
Phillies sign Justin for 1 Year $45M plus 2-1 Year Team Options for $45M.
I agree on Mets. If I were to place bets it’s Mets, then Dodgers, then Yanks. If Judge goes to SF then Yanks will be interesting. I don’t think DeGrom is going back to Mets (based on what I’m hearing).
I’m hearing that Jim Crane will meet with JV after all offers have been collected.
I expect Verlander to give the Astros a VERY small discount to return.
I can see Crane adding the 3rd year if the AAV goes down. Something like 3yrs $100M instead of $130M but I don’t think that will be enough for Verlander.
So the Astros then will sign Contreras.
I also expect them to sign Michael Brantley but not until he is proven healthy, so not until February or March.
The Astros very much need a left handed bat so I could see them going after Conforto if they aren’t confident about Brantley.
They could also sign a mid level starter like Corey Kluber and then trade Urquidy or Garcia for a left handed bat.
Crane wouldn’t trade Urquidy for Contreras straight up. What makes you think they’re gonna trade Urquidy or Garcia for a bat. If they want a bat they’ll go out and get one.
And you can have Kluber.
Kluber ain’t happening. No interest from Astros on any starter on market.
That’s not what I’m hearing. In fact Kluber is one they have talked too.
I’m not saying I want or am excited about the possibility.
He wants to win 300 games and may be the last pitcher to ever do it.
He will be 40 next year and needs at least 3 maybe 4+ years to get there.
I think he wants 3 years above anything else because he does not want to be shopping for a deal as a 42 year old.
If he is 42 and 20 wins shy after an average or bad season he may not be able to get a contract.
If he is 43 and within 10 wins someone will sign him just so he wins 300 in their uniform.
That offense will score so many runs I could probably pitch there and win.
The Astros have Valdez who is pretty much an ace as it is. They have McCullers Jr., Javier, Urquidy & Garcia. That’s still a pretty deep staff. If the Astros aren’t comfortable with Urquidy or Garcia, they can go out & sign a pitcher like Tailon to fill out their staff for a lot less money than it will cost to sign Verlander. The Astros have a pretty good track record of letting big names walk & being just fine. I wouldn’t bet against that here either.
They also have Hunter Brown, AAA pitcher of year in PCL who throws 99 and has JV’s exact mechanics ( idolized JV as Brown is from Michigan). Brown started 2 games for Astros, went 12 innings and gave up 1 run. Also pitched great out of bullpen.
Dodgers should grab Verlander and Trea Turner and call it a day.
Both Verlander and deGrom want to be paid based on what Schurzer got.
That may be fine if Steven Cohen is guaranteeing the contracts.
But at some point those salaries are simply unaffordable to MLB franchises. Even the Dodgers have been stretched too far.
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Preller went crazy on Tatis, so Mr. Cohen had to pay the same to retain Lindor, else face criticism from Mets fans. Now 4 SS’s want astronomical contracts a well. Last year Correa, Seager, Semien, Báez, and Story got outlandish long-term contracts. None of their teams did especially well. Now agents for Correa, Turner, Bogaerts, and Swanson want them to to be paid by the same yardstick.
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Have a look at Wil Myers. Preller signed him for an outrageous contract paying him $20m in both 2021 and 2022. So every agent wants to use that as a yardstick. Meanwhile the man is a FA this year at age 32 and a team would have to be nuts to give the man a 2023 contract for $10m. Not to mention the contract Preller gave Hosmer.
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The point is that Steven Cohen and AJ Preller radically overpay for some players. For some reason people think that’s the new “market price”. It’s not. If I open up a hamburger stand in a wealthy area, charge $50 for a cheeseburger a bit better than the one at McDonalds and some people pay that, it doesn’t mean that hamburgers around America now need to sell for $50 as that’s the new “market price”. People will find alternatives that work well for them.
It’s not just the mets and padres. The dodgers really started this with giving Bauer over 40m a year on short term deal.
The padres did give tatis a big deal but he has an aav of 24m.
At the end of the day it doesn’t matter. Players will be paid what someone is willing to pay them.
I would not give Verlander 3×43. That’s just too much for someone his age. Maybe 2×40, which is still a ton but is he going to be great at 43?
Anybody that works in compensation will agree w you… you don’t define market value by the outliers. There are market corrections for cases like this. But mlb agents have tried to convince the world this is how the market is set, and somehow it’s mostly worked. And when owners don’t want to buy into that market value, they cry collusion.
A 2 year, $65 million offer from Crane vs the 3 years and $130 million JV is asking for Yeah. I would call that a significant gap.
Since we know he won’t be playing in Houston, what team will JV pitch for in 2023-2025?
How much more money does this man actually need? He can’t be a modest veteran and sign for 2.5MM like Pujols right?
Not with a wife like that !!!
Two words: Players Union.
They hold you to your market value to increase the bar for other players. Pujols was 48 and ran like he had glass in his cleats. Verlander still throws 98 in the 7th inning. Apples and oranges in relation to market value.
Pujols was coming off a decade of mediocrity. Verlander just win a cy young.
How much more money does this man actually need?
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That’s a little silly, imo. I think I have enough to retire on, but I am not going to work for 6% of my current salary.
Pujols was just awful. Below replacement level.
Verlander just won the Cy Young.
Time to go home Justin, Tigers need to sign a blank check and let him fill in amount!!
Good luck to any team that gives a 39 year old a 130 million dollar contract. Better buy a good insurance plan.
Verlander is not your typical 40yo. he’s a different beast and I predict he’ll be worth the 3 year contract. I also believe he’ll end up pitching a couple more after that although the last year of the 3 year contract he’s about to sign will drop off a little and the next 2 won’t be 40mm anymore but watch, he’ll pitch at a high level till he’s 45. like Nolan, he’s just different
Easy to say until he isn’t. Which literally can happen and any moment.
The other reason I wouldn’t pay him that much is watching him in the playoffs this year. He didn’t look like here is the best pitcher in the game…good luck guy. He looked very beatable. I pay someone that kind of money to be lights out in the post season. It’s not like the astros or dodgers are worried they won’t make it.
I simply don’t pay 40 year olds big money.
Verlander was like Judge in the playoffs. They will get you to the postseason, but once you get there, other guys need to help carry the team. Astros were able to do that, consummate full team effort. The Yankees were not; they were a one-man band.
I’d the mets or the dodgers don’t give him that 130m. Then nobody is going to.
My guess is he will get a 2 year deal around the 80m mark.
A team like the giants. If they get judge they aren’t turning and giving Verlander 130m. If they don’t get judge then they are better off spreading the money around because a Verlander alone isn’t going to make them a world series contenders. The market for degrom, Verlander and judge are small because of the teams that can afford them but still be real contenders. Right now those teams are the Yankees, mets and dodgers.
The giants aren’t a clear contender with just one of those guys. The reason they are in judge is to sell tickets as much as contending. Verlander doesn’t sell the same as a player like judge
Agree 100%. Guys like him and Scherzer remind me of Ryan. Johnson also threw gas til his early 40s. Once a generation pitchers.
I don’t know anyone that would be excited to see their favorite team spend that.
I’m not sure if we really understand how great Verlander really is. He’s better than Cole DeGrom and Scherzer if he’s managed carefully he’ll be fresh for playoffs. He doesn’t need to start 30 games in regular season. I mean no doubt he’s worth 40 mil a year. Put him on Yankees and he makes whole staff better. Or Dodgers. I can’t see him going anywhere else. Both teams.need to go all in this year.
I agree but I think the Mets sign him.
if he’s managed carefully he’ll be fresh for playoffs.
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Pure speculation. He hasn’t had a good playoff since 2017. And almost no team is good enough to be able to give a $40M player multiple starts off.
Wonder if the Dodgers offer him a contract similar to the one Bauer got. Dodgers need pitching and it’s a guaranteed division title for them. No guarantees come postseason though.
It’ll be interesting if when he goes to the Met’s head to head this time against Max, if he’ll lose again ? I think the Met’s will have to do it to get maximum effort from both of them. It’ll be epic, greater than the thriller in Manila. In the big apple with everyone watching those beads of sweat on each competing against each other for top ace on the team.
Will Verlander take that top money, and fight Max again ? This will be very interesting. Big money, big city, best pitcher;s in baseball fighting the other teams while battling each other for team ace of aces. Max is there, will Ver take the challenge or flee to the west coast ?
As Anya might say waku waku.
Agree. Mets.
The Mets made it harder for everyone with that Scherzer deal didn’t they. Including themselves
Dear JV, you had an unbelievable return from Tommy John surgery. Yes your work ethic is admirable.
BUT, you will be 40 when the season starts. Truth is you stunk when it mattered the most. You’re one World Series win was a 5 inning disaster waiting to happen. So your most recent work showed you may have been fading.
SO, two years at $60 million is something you should jump on.
One year 25M was his option with the Astros, 2 yrs / 65M is a nice raise, Astros give Verlander the best opportunity to stack wins.
Best opportunity is certainly a bit debatable, as there are plenty of good teams that can provide a similar supporting cast. That said, they might be the best that provide that opportunity that are in the market for him or willing to pay him that. Idk. Unless the dodgers or Mets are a part of the equation… which is give the dodgers an edge over the Astros
he is 56 wins away, Id go for the wins, but its 4 to 5 more seasons, its not worth changing locker rooms until you’re within 20 wins, if you’re going for the wins, otherwise cash in.
I wouldn’t touch Verlander for anything over one year. At his age it could happen suddenly and by it I mean falling off a cliff. What did paying Scherzer get the Mets? Plus Verlander didn’t look very good once he came back from his IL stint and it continued into the post season. Hard pass for me and I love the guy I’m a fan I’m just being realistic.
You’re confusing Verlander with deGrom unless you truly belief that 3 runs across four games with 41 strike outs is not “(looking) very good”.
deGrom and Verlander are both going to want to beat that Scherzer contract. I don’t blame them, but that’s just nuts. They’ll get it too.
I wonder who the other top pitchers on the free agent market are. If only the article mentioned them.
Memo to potential teams:
Go ahead and push the envelope on signing him to 2-3 years.
Time catches up to all….you’ll be paying to watch him on the DL
I’ll make a bold prediction. Which ever team signs Justin Verlander to a three year $120 million contract will regret it.
(ok, maybe not so bold ☺️)
Possibly, but JV is built like Nolan was 30+ years ago. Super strong core,probably works out hard(like Ryan did),and I think he has a good chance of pitching well for another 2-4 years. Clemens was a beast also..but we all know he had juice help. The big unit also,but he started becoming ineffective by age 41.
You don’t give a 40 year old pitcher a 3 year, $130 mil contract if you’re the Astros.
Ah hes throwing 98,99 with control, unless he blows his arm out,which can happen to a pitcher at any age, I wouldn’t worry about his stuff diminishing.
Only the Mets do that.
And defer money so they are paying him for 30 years.
Go wherever the best bullpen is so you can keep the wins you earn. 3/110 with some heavy incentives
What a diva this putz has become since firing his dad as his agent.
Wait did he really?
I wish the Cubs would sign him, Turner and a CF then the Central is theirs!
J-Hey and Kyle will be coming off the books after 2023 and their money could be used for Justin contract…
In a perfect baseball world, he, Verlander belongs in philly, but it probably won’t happen. It’s the ultimate fit. Staff wise,chemistry wise,talent wise. Fingers crossed von purple hayes but I wouldn’t hesitate to give him 3 years at 40 million.
^^^this^^^ and then I can crack a Sam Adams…..or 6…..
If the Phillies sign Verlander, his arm will fall off midway through the season and he’ll retire. If anyone else signs him, he’ll be in the running for the CY Young again. This is how my brain thinks.
I would normally agree,but after last season’s magic I’m still believing . Love this kid Painter, a true phenom,add Verlander, add Turner and a tweak or two, the magic continues.
This is such a huge question mark. Verlander is without a doubt one of the greatest pitchers of his era(Kershaw,Scherzer other 2),and is a surefire HOF. Still though..3 years at a minimum of 120 million at age 40? Only other players in the history of the game who was still throwing gas at that age was Ryan(Clemens had juice help)and the big unit. That’s really it..only 2-3 pitchers in about 10000 pitchers. That being said, I think he’s gonna be worth it. JV looks strong,has pin point control,great curve, and his heater is still 94-99mph. Only thing though, eventually everyone falls to father time,and for him it could happen very soon. We will see.
Check out Jamie Moyer and Gaylord Perry (RIP) who both arguably had their best seasons at age 40, and also Charlie Hough who accumulated 67 Wins between age 40 and 46. Yeah these guys weren’t flame-throwers like JV, but it shows longevity and effectiveness can last beyond age 39.
I’m only referring to guys that throw gas. Yes Phil Niekro actually won 121 games in his forties and Moyer was extremely crafty in his 40s til 47 I believe. Once again I was only referring to guys that throw gas..so relax..okay dude lol
Moyer never relied on high velocity though. He was a pure location pitcher. If JV starts throwing a fastball in the 80-85 mph range, hitters will crush him. Moyer always threw an 85mph fastball.
I see no question mark. Throwing gas at 98,99 where he wants it ,late in the season. Minuscule era . Two years removed from surgery. Age has nothing to do with blowing out a arm. Young guys around the league do it yearly.
Scherzer took a lot of deferred money to sign with the Nationals way back when and I wouldn’t be surprised if he did the same thing with the Mets. Verlander? Well, if Harris will give MATT BOYD $10M with his numbers, why not give JV $40M a year and bring in a guy folks turn out to watch pitch?
Rangers. Texas needs to be all in after signing Semien and Seager – both bad signings. Verlander, Judge, and Nimmo would make this team an instant contender.
“He has already had meetings with the Dodgers and Mets, and Heyman has previously suggested the Yankees are also in the market.”
Yeah, but that’s what Heyman does, isn’t it?