Athletics catcher Sean Murphy is among the most popular players on the trade market, due both to his general excellence as a well-rounded catcher and to the dearth of high-end catching talent in a market where several teams are looking for upgrades at the position. To this point, he’s been linked to the D-backs, Astros, Cubs, Guardians, Twins, Braves, Rays and Red Sox in the past three to four weeks. Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle adds the Giants to list of teams that have called Oakland regarding Murphy, though an upgrade at catcher isn’t currently atop San Francisco’s priority list as they still hope to reel in a top-of-the-market free agent such as Carlos Correa.
The Cardinals were considered one of Murphy’s most prominent suitors before yesterday’s five-year agreement with Willson Contreras, and it seems that Oakland’s sky-high asking price on Murphy prompted St. Louis to instead pivot to the free-agent market. Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reported earlier in the week that the A’s were seeking controllable, MLB-ready players in return for Murphy, and Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch shines some further light on the type of return Oakland is seeking. Per Goold, the Athletics’ ask in talks with the Cardinals included outfielder Lars Nootbaar, third-place Rookie of the Year finisher Brendan Donovan, and a near-MLB pitching prospect such as Gordon Graceffo.
It’s a hefty asking price, to be sure, as both Nootbaar and Donovan burst onto the scene in 2022 and staked a claim to regular roles with the Cardinals. Nootbaar finished out the season with a .228/.340/.448 batting line (125 wRC+), and he was particularly effective in the season’s final two months, once he was finally able to settle into an everyday role (as MLBTR’s Anthony Franco explored in September). Nootbaar made the most of his opportunity as the primary right fielder in St. Louis, slashing .246/.371/.492 with 10 homers, 12 doubles and three triples in his final 240 plate appearances. He’s controllable through 2027.
Donovan is similarly interesting, even though the manner in which he delivers value is completely different. Also 25, Donovan played all four infield positions and both outfield corners this season, generally delivering quality defense at each spot — hence this year’s Gold Glove Award. He batted .281/.394/.379, showing minimal power but also a keen feel for the strike zone, evidenced by a 12.8% walk rate and an excellent 15% strikeout rate. He’s controlled a year longer than Nootbaar, all the way through the 2028 season. As for Graceffo, he’s currently ranked as baseball’s No. 66 prospect at Baseball America, No. 78 at FanGraphs and No. 79 at MLB.com.
Suffice it to say, it’s a massive haul for the A’s to seek and a justifiable one for the Cardinals to walk away from, no matter how excellent Murphy is. Focusing in on the Cardinals aspect is generally a moot point now, though. With Contreras signing on through the 2027 season, St. Louis is no longer in the running.
Still, the asking price from one prominent suitor is instructive when trying to plot out what the A’s could seek from other clubs. Every valuation is different, of course, but teams looking into Murphy could very well need to part with multiple MLB-ready talents who have longer-reaching club control than the remaining three years the A’s hold over Murphy. General manager David Forst said this week that the A’s aren’t necessarily closed off to receiving lower-level players but stressed that adding players who have reached or could reach the Majors in 2023 — whether in a Murphy trade or other transactions — is at the “top of our to-do list” (link via Melissa Lockard of The Athletic).
Waaaaaaaaay too much for one guy. You’re not getting three MLB ready guys for one young catcher.
Right, if it was Nootbar OR Donovan and Graceffo plus a prospect or two, that would be fair.
Not even. Those guys have upside and are controllable to 2027.. They are fun to watch too. With those guys it’s a one to one swap almost….
No. That’s not fair at all. Murphy is a catcher. As good as you might think your guys are, infielders and outfielders are much more easily obtainable than a talented young catcher with control. I agree the initial ask was a lot. However, to think it would be a 1 for 1 is just not reasonable.
How did the Realmuto trade work out? Big difference but to me there is no way I trade three ready players for Murphy. He’s good but he’s also becoming more expensive. Unless the A’s throw in good but not ready talent, either they accept less or he stays put.
As a Cub fan, I’m glad the Cards got Contreras instead of Murphy. And I would indeed trade A LOT to get Murphy.
The thing is no one knows how a player reacts to a trade. If Murphy can adjust, he likely would go to a more hitter friendly ball park but I just don’t think ANY catcher playing today is worth what they’re looking for. Nice to ask but they’re asking for a top starter return or there abouts.
Phils stole Realmuto.
Then he stays put? It’s not like he is gone after this year.
That’s what you would think but Murphy is still controlled for three more years and the C market is weak, especially after Contreras signed. The A’s are in prime position to take advantage of a team desperate to upgrade at C
At that asking price more like they’re in a prime position to keep him next year and finish last again. Nobody is paying that price.
Hey Jed: Morel, Keegan Thompson and Owen Cassie….pull the trigger!
I’d do everything possible not to include Thompson. The Cubs need him in middle relief. Morel, Davis, Cassie, Rivas, and Killian.
Too much hype with the FA class. 22 years for 2 SS? Don’t get sucked up in this lunacy STL. Don’t give up the farm for an acre of potatoes…
STL already got sucked into the lunacy by giving part-time catcher Contreras a 5 year, $85 million contract. For a part-time catcher. Let me repeat that, for a freakin’ catcher who played the actual catching position less than 50% of the time last season.
Cardinals want playing time for both Herrera and Knizner too. So that 50% playing time, means that the 2 other catchers will be playing games too.
For 2 good controllable ready players like those. Plus a top pitching prospect almost ready…no way. Oakland has put themselves between a rock and a hard place. That’s why Beane retired…
Oh Beane didn’t retire. He his consulting for the A’s owner John Fisher. Believe me, Beane is pretty much around the A’s operation unit and will be for years to come.
They won’t get anything close to what they asked the cards.
Best bet is the dbacks with their willingness to part with a outfielder. Or settle for all prospects.
Nothing improves your chances to improve quicker than an advantage at catcher with hood def and bat. But at the same time catcher carries the injury or missed time biggest risk to a payroll. Now at a low cost like Murphy still in .. pay up teams!!
He has a 5.1 War, Wilson Contreras was the best Catcher on the Free Agent Market and his War was only 3. War matters, if he was a free agent, he would be getting a gigantic contract with a War like that.
His value is sky high, the As should and will remain patient for a top offer.
If we’re cherry-picking metrics, bWar said Donovan by himself was worth more than Murphy was last season.
Yeah, but it’s easier to find WAR from an IF than a C. I would take the catcher that produces 3.5 WAR over an IF that produces 4.1 WAR because I have a higher likelihood of finding a legit replacement for the IF.
bWAR is trash. No one pays any attention to it.
Is it that easy to find a player that plays as many positions as Donovan does, as well as he does? Because there’s a whole lot of value in that, as well.
Seamaholic, LOTS of people pay attention to bWAR.
Good luck. Hopefully a mystery team comes into play. The teams listed so far aren’t really known for parting with young high end talent with 6 years of control for less control.
For that high of a price, why not forget about Murphy and concentrate on Vazquez? He’s a FA. No one has control of him. No team would have to give up good, young players for him. The catcher is the quarterback of a team, making them arguably the most important player on the field. Vazquez has proven that he’s that guy. I hope he signs with Boston.
Pirates would give you at least Reynolds for that package. Probably more or for only 2 of those guys.
YourDreamGM, You’re probably right, but I’d think the A’s aren’t that interested in Reynolds. I’d guess they’d want someone with more years of control, and not due for a big arb raise next season.
I’d want neither of those guys on the Pirates. They don’t impress me. I’d turn that package down.
@tad2b13 For the cards package. Not that they would want Reynolds either.
@I speak the truth 6 years of control for near 800 ops guys and top 100 prospects for 3 years of a corner outfielder who wants traded don’t impress you much huh. Your hard to impress.
Maybe it’s not way too much. The A’s have been trading away their talent for years and what do they have to show for it? Murphy, Brown and Allen came from the draft, Kemp, Bride, Laureano and Blackburn came from unheralded trades, they bought Irvin. Kaprelian is still around from the Sonny Gray deal, Pache looks like a bust, there is hope that Langeliers, Sears and Waldichuk will be solid and maybe other prospects acquired work out, but in the grand scheme of things, the A’s keep feeding MLB teams Proven MLB talent and what they have received just hasn’t been much. A’s need to be tougher and get more for their talent. Murphy might be the #4 catcher in the game, hold tight until a team is ready to give 3 major league ready talents.
I can’t figure out what As management is trying to do. They got rid of almost all of their top talent. That usually signals a rebuild with the team acquiring and developing players. I don’t see the As doing that. They just keep floundering with no particular direction in mind.
They can hold him for a high price now and then see how his first half goes. I figure he will be dealt at the deadline. They don’t need to move him.
Not how it works. They will take the best offer or lose him for nothing. I would say a comp pick but Oakland wasn’t even smart enough to do that in the past. Pache was a bust when they traded for him. He was a bust before that.
Sox need to overpay so Hahn can say he accomplished something!
How about Montgomery even up for Murphy?
Who’s Montgomery?
Colson. Top 38 MLB prospect. SS.
TA#7 replacement in a couple of years, but I prefer Murphy now!
Compares to Seager.
Will throw in Giolito if A’s want him.
Did you read what the A’s were asking for? Your offer is dogmeat compared to that. No way they even respond.
A’s negotiations ploy.
My suggestion more than fair.
It was an early ask. Once the offers are in and it’s clear nobody is willing to pay that price (unless a team desperately wants him) then it probably would have dropped to 2 of those players and some mid to lower range prospects.
Still not crazy about Contreras, but the more I read about what the A’s were asking for, the more I’m glad the clubhouse didn’t get Murphy.
Why aren’t you crazy about Contreras? He’s been a top 5ish Catcher for the past several years. The concerns about his framing are waaay overblown, but if that’s it, is that it?
1. The cash expenditure means StL’s free agency is largely done, unless anyone thinks DeWitt will all of a sudden break the bank (pretty sure he won’t).
2. He only catches maybe two thirds of the games at most (even less last year), so the Cards will still need a quality backup.
3. Many seem to think he will transition to DH later in the contract, and I’d much rather that be left open for players to be able to start in the lineup even when not in the field or to provide better maps against the opposing pitcher, rather than having a permanent fixture there.
4. Not just framing, but there’s been a lot brought up about his ability to call the game, too. I read he has a negative cERA, which has to negatively impact his overall value in a way that doesn’t show up when talking WAR.
Contreras is a bat-first guy whose been graded poorly for his work behind the plate. When it comes to catchers, some teams seem to be okay with a bat-first guy as a backup, but want a better defensive catcher in the everyday role. For catchers, what they do with the bat is close to the bottom in the order of importance of what they do.
The Cubs know Contreras better than anyone AND they need a catcher and STILL didn’t even offer him a contract. Look it up, the SP splits for the Cubs were noticeably worse when Contreras was catching as opposed to Gomes. It’s not just framing, he’s just not a good catcher. His bat plays well… AS A CATCHER, it’s about average or below as a DH.
Well to be honest lately the CUBS PITCHING sucks! He’ll have way more impact working with our staff and pitchers as well as being a part of a CONSISTENT winning culture. Just remember you guys stole Heyward and how’d that end up for you as well as selling the core of your championship team. Tend to not take their opinions to highly after their blunders
There are more indicators of a catcher’s effectiveness that cERA. cERA has some value, and Contreras scores poorly on other metrics as well.
It ended up with a world series win… last I checked.
Cubs pitching was amongst the best in the second half of last season. 3rd best rotation era in baseball after all star break. Without Hendricks. Ironically Contreras was shelved from catching most of that same stretch…..
Yeah, no thanks! That’s an insane haul, and now I realize my Rays haven’t landed him. Really hope they don’t give up a package like that for Murf-Dawg, as much as I want him on the team
Murf-Dawg?? Is that the Crimestoppers dude, the bloodhound in the trenchcoat?? Hmmm, coming over as a mascot ??? Confused.
Nah that’s McGriff, the Crime Dog.
Nootbaar is still questionable. He took a LOT of poor at-bats. Bursting on the scene is a bit hyperbolic.
Yeah this. It isn’t that crazy a price. Nootbars are a dime a dozen in baseball. Nice 4th outfielder. He never hit in the minors like he did 2nd half of last year, which is a big red flag. And Graceffo is a decent not great prospect. It’s basically Donovan and a couple nice pieces for Murphy. It’s a bit heavy, depending on whether you think Donovan’s performance in 2022 is repeatable. I think it probably is (Donovan, unlike Nootbar, DID hit in the minors), so it might be a bit on the high side. But it’s close. Murphy’s a top five catcher in baseball, whereas 2nd basemen and 4th OF can be found.
@Seam- I always respect your opinions but this one came straight off the stat sheet. Nootbaar is the bigger get between he and Donovan no matter what the numbers say.
In terms of the ask, you’re right, it’s reasonable in terms of value. Murphy is very valuable. The asking price just wasn’t a good fit for the Cardinals. We need Noot, Donny, and Graceffo more than we needed Murphy. I wish they had asked for someone else, but this was the right move for us.
I would say Noot is closer to be a all star than a 4th outfielder.
Nootbar didn’t hit in the minors (I mean he was fine, nothing special). Guys who sustainably hit far better in the majors than the minors are rarer than four leaf clovers. But guys who do it for half a season are common. Maybe you get lucky, but don’t count on it.
Statistically you’re correct, very rare. But the traits that made Noot successful the second half of last season are encouraging. He is an athletic, reasonably big, strong guy. His swing is very simple, very quick to the ball. He is the rare lefthanded hitter who can consistently hammer high fastballs. His approach is pretty advanced for a guy with his level of experience and that shows in his walk to K ratio. He actually had a pretty good end of 2021 as well, so this season’s second half didn’t come out of nowhere. His play in ’21 should have earned him more regular playing time at the start of ’22 but Mo signed Corey Dickerson for no obvious reason and then force-fed Dickerson at bats to start the season.
He’s not hitting far better in the majors.
thats an insane asking price
The trade would be better for the A’s than the Cards. I wouldn’t trade away Nootbar or Donovan. Sometimes it isn’t out a lot of gobbelty-gook analytics but a team’s chemistry. Donovan and Nootbar are part of that, and also part of the Cards furious finish this season to overtake the Brewers and win the NL central.
I said this in another thread, but if the Cards were willing to spend this kind of money, which I know they aren’t, I would have rather made that trade and signed Swanson and Brantley to replace Donovon and Noot.
Based on Bogearts, I’m assuming that Dansby is now looking at a 10-years, $180-200m deal. I think if the Cards (or anyone) had been more aggressive in trying to get him before Bogearts, or even Turner, signed, maybe he could’ve been cheaper. But let’s say he gets 10/200. Let’s say Brantley gets 2/24. I think Murphy is getting $3.5 next year.
You’ve got a 3-5 year window with Goldy and Arenado. I’d rather have Murphy, Brantley and Swanson in that time than Noot, Donovon and Contreras. Over the next few years your’re looking at spending like $20m/yr for Contreras, Noot and Donovon vs. maybe $35m/yr for other other three, but I think the gap in talent exceeds the $15m price difference.
The problem of course is the following 5 years, as the Swanson contract wouldn’t age well. And Murphy would be getting more and more expensive. But still…the Cards decision-making is defensible, I think, but ultimately they cheaped out.
For what it’s worth, FanGraphs has Swanson going for 6yrs/$140m.
Even after Bogearts?
Yes.
Cards should still be all over him at that price. But I’m skeptical.
It seems a little low to me, considering how many big contracts have been signed in the last few days, but we’ll see.
I think he has a reasonable shot at 7 or 8 years now. Correa will get a mountain of cash from SF. That leaves the Cubs, Twins, and Red Sox as teams who need a SS. Of course Boston can slide Story over, but losing Bogaerts looks bad for this team.
Here’s my understanding: Oakland is laying traps. They’re giving making Murphy have a big price, and telling other teams “take it or leave it. We’ll just keep him”. No one has bit yet
Here’s the thing though. Murphy is probably getting traded eventually, and if so, it makes little sense to hold on to him. Oakland probably realizes that his value won’t be as high this time next year. They can say they’ll keep him, but for a rebuilder it makes no sense to keep him.
It’s a staring contest between Oakland and the other teams out there, who will blink first? A team ponying up to overpay for him, or Oakland giving in and being willing to accept closer to market value. This will be interesting to watch as more rumors float in…
If you read all that, thanks
Good summation. Ask for a lot and maybe you will get it. If not, you lost nothing. High value now, still high value until the trade deadline. A’s playing to get as high a value from him as they can.
Maybe you lost nothing. I think Oakland left a lot of talent on the table by only focusing on those three players from the Cardinals. I don’t really understand the A’s insistence on two ML starters. Are they “going for it” this year? They might end up settling for less if they wait too long.
Murphy being a catcher his injury risk is higher, if you’re the A’s you get max value for him by trading him before he plays a single second of Spring Training ball. So the A’s have a couple months to fake everyone out before pressing the Go button.
Remember they asked a ton for Donaldson,then settled for the crap from blue jays. Depending of your view of a 24=yr old Brett lawrie at the time who was eventually out of baseball at age 26
Donovan alone will probably be better than Murphy over the next 3 years..
Murphy’s really really good. And at the scarcest position in baseball. Donovan plays the most common one other than corner OF.
Yes.
Donovan’s ceiling is as a potentially dangerous hitter who gets on base and can play the entire infield and outfield aside from CF. There’s a lot of value there if his bat flourishes.
The Guardians have some young controllable /prospect OFers , Murphy fits on that lineup with Bo
Wow. That’s a crazy ask. I’m going to go ahead and predict Murphy is still an A on opening day.
I think the price was toooo high for the Cardinals, but ONLY because we have so many question marks on the team. We genuinely NEEED the depth, versatility, upside and cost control we get from Noot and Donovan right now.
I’m good with the deal the team did.
Should have gone after Quintana considering the $13m per yr/ two yr deal it took to get him. We need a 5th starter and Quintana would have fit nicely at that price.
Now, go get Dansby and the team will be set for hitting.
They’re never going to spend the money on Dansby, especially after dishing out for Contreras. I could see Brantley as a possible lefty bat on a 2-year deal, especially if Noot headlined a trade for a pitcher (Pablo Lopez?). But I’d be shocked if they signed any other major FA contracts.
Edman and Donovon are going to be your opening day middle infield.
There’s a lot of money coming off the books after 2023 and a lot of cost-controlled, versatile talent on the way and multiple guys who are already on the team who seem poised to break out.
FanGraphs has Dansby listed at 6yrs/$140m, so that’s really not crazy for a guy of his caliber on a team that’s in win-now-mode.
I’m good with that middle infield.
I don’t think they’re trading Noot. There seems to be a lot of interest, but he’s very valuable to us. Of course, I’ve been very wrong, very recently, so…….ya.
Why do they want Dansby?
You have Edman at SS and Donovan/Gorman at 2B (as it stands).
Gorman can’t play 2B and Edman is better at 2B than SS. The whole team gets better defensively and offensively with Swanson.
Gorman is an emerging talent. For his first year, he hit well enough and his D was better than expected. The Gorman bashing has been, I think, very premature. I see very good things soon for the guy.
If Gorman’s D was better than expected, expectations must have been very low. Last season at 2B he had a -5 DRS, and a -12 OAA.
Because we’re thin/uncertain in the outfield and Edman has a nearly + glove in right. Dansby fixes our outfield issue, basically.
Also true. Letting Donovon and Edman move around would be huge.
Q was a steal.
Holy crap dude you’re not insinuating Q-Anon is involved in all this now, are you??? For realz, it all makes sense now. Mind Blown. Dots Connected.
Hmm, I didn’t see the padres listed.
I’m not thrilled with the Contreras signing but after reading that I can see why they did it. If it had been one of Donovan OR Noot, Gracefo and maybe someone like Burelson I’d say do it.
Braves will send you Pache, Watters, AND Touki Toussaint for Murphy. Oh wait, it’s not 2020 anymore. Nvm
I’d have to think that Valera/Rocchio is the headliner of a Cleveland trade and if they eventually make Williams/Bibee part of it as well, Oakland will have a difficult time saying no. Like others have said, who will blink first.
I’d be fine sending Valera and Rocchio plus a pitcher and lower level prospects, but I’d be a lot happier with Logan Allen or Xavion Curry going rather than Williams or Bibee. THREE top 100 prospects for Murphy? I’d walk away from that deal. MLB Trade Values has Valera, Rocchio and Williams at 82 where Murphy is a 51. They aren’t the value bible, but it does give a general idea of how things line up and all three of those guys would be too much.
I don’t have all three guys. Either Valera or Rocchio and either Williams or Bibee. I think that’s a building block for a potential package with 2 other prospects in there. And I’m sure Cleveland wants to include Allen/Curry instead of Williams/Bibee and that’s where the stall is.
Misunderstood your “/”. Sorry.
That’s not a big ask for Murphy. I went to Baseball reference and compared Murphy’s first 3 full seasons to the 1st 3 full seasons of Realmuto. Outside of JT’s speed numbers (triples and stolen bases) they are a pretty close match. Murphy has a bit more power and their defense is pretty equal. Nootbar has good potential but replacing him is easy. I wonder if the Cards would’ve pulled the trigger if OAK swapped Donovan for Gorman. Gorman would be a better fit in Oakland than he is for St. Louis.
Guards should hold steady. Don’t increase offer. No Espino, Williams, Valera, or Bibee . I don’t care what his WAR is, he is not a game changing player. He is a very good catcher and just a good piece on a championship team with many other pieces. You got to playoffs with Austin “No hit” hedges. Let Oakland lower their price or they can just keep him and keep losing.
When you get the opportunity to improve from a “F” to an “A-“, you absolutely go after it. Don’t assume that just because you made the playoffs last year that it’ll be a linear progression with the young Cleveland players.
Austin Hedges is a terrible major league hitter, but he is a terrific catcher. He’s not an F. Getting an A player is also all about the price. The price for Murphy is too high.
Here I disagree. To improver what they had they need only a guy who offers an obs a hundred points higher than hedges. And that’s less than .700. There are improvements out there that don’t require trading their best pitching prospects. In three years only Tristram McKenzie will still be in the rotation along with espino, Allen, Williams and bibee.
Do you think if CLE doesn’t land Murphy they’ll pivot to Vazquez? Also, I know Alfaro doesn’t fit the organization’s profile of an ideal C, but he had a good season for SD offensively last year.
I’m not sure they will pay Vazquez what he can get on the market. My guess he’d be about 15.0 – 17.0 per year/three or four years. If they pay that much, he will play and THAT prevents Naylor from catching. If they lose out on Murphy (and I don’t think they match up very will with Toronto) I think we may see another year of Austin Hedges.
I mean, Hedges was a negative WAR no matter what site you use so maybe he’s a “D” Regardless, it’s a massive improvement.
Jumping on another comment, I’m not about to predict what the starting rotation will look like in 3 years when 4 of the 5 have thrown zero MLB innings. 1 may pan out, maybe 2, it’d be a stretch to say that they all do.
MLB obviously feels WAR underestimates the value of catchers….and I agree. No way a careful organization like Cleveland gives Hedges 4.0 million, like they did in ’22, if they don’t see a positive value.
Bringing Hedges back is worst case scenario – nobody outside the FO wants that to happen. I’d actually rather they brought Roberto Perez back than Hedges. .163 BA just doesn’t cut it. At least Perez hovered around .210
Well, Murphy and Vazquez look too expensive. We don’t match with the Blue Jays. Besides, all those guys get in the way of Naylor. What is left? Mike Zunino? Curt Casali? Perez has been hurt every year since we won the AL pennant.
I think we go back to Hedges for a year and work Naylor in. If that doesn’t work, check in with the A’s and the Blue Jays at the deadline and hope the price has gone down.
You don’t sell the farm for a guy like Murphy. Cleveland don’t operate like that.
The farm is top 5 in baseball. You aren’t selling your farm by trading for Sean Murphy and that’s even if you traded two of your top 5. They did it in 2016 and look how Frazier and Sheffield panned out.
Were Frazier and Sheffield both top 100 players when that deal was made? Frazier was already having injury problems when was in AAA.
BTW, I think most people would be ok giving up two of our top guys. I don’t think that is “selling the farm.’ The question is: are we willing to give up THREE of our top 100 guys. I don’t think so.
Also, past performance is not a predictor of future performance. Just because none of the guys we sent to the Yankees really worked out doesn’t mean we won’t end up on the wrong end of a Clevenger-like deal this time.
They were. Actually believe they were top 50 at the time. Sheffield might have been in the 50-70 range from my recollection.
And yeah, agree on a no of three of them, but that’s all subjective. Bibee wasn’t even in prospect conversations last year and now he’s flying up the rankings. Too many fans think that trading prospects empties your farm which isn’t true. Bad drafting and poor player development empties your farm.
I remember when people on this board had James McCann as the second coming. I even remember 4 years/$80 million bantied about! Murphy is solid–he’s had two good years, let’s calm down. Maybe he continues to improve, but all the slobbering over players gets a bit tedious. Yes, catcher is a key position and there are not many good ones left…and he is one of them. But don’t sell the farm. Get a great defensive catcher cheaper, use the money for pitching. Once robo umps are installed, the overvalued pitch framing will be obviated.
I’ll take Zunino for another year or two.
I agree with you about the rule changes and robot umps. I think the concerns about Contreras defensively, if not overblown, will become less important. He needs to be able to catch close to full time, though, to retain value.
The fact that they wanted Nootbar and not Carlson tells me how Carlson is viewed by everyone but Mozalak.
That said all that?
Oakland is overdoing the market. If Murphy has a bad season, they will pay for it in terms of the opportunity cost of the prospects they could have had.
They believe they can trade him any time in the next couple of years. They want to maximize what they get. The Guardians played the same game with all their big trades, especially Lindor.
3 yrs of control and a low payroll because they’re cheap. Only reason to not hold onto Murphy would be if Shea langeliers is ready and diminishing their defensive values by having them DH part time
(Jimmy McMillian Voice) The rent is too dAmn high!
The Cardinals need to pursue Beiber and/or Rosario from Cleveland. They likely won’t trade Beiber. Rosario maybe, mostly because he’s going to start getting expensive, and they have viable replacements coming up the pipeline.
Beiber is another story. Im sure Cleveland wouldn’t be interested in trading him. That said, he as well is getting expensive, and the the one thing the Cardinals are missing is an ace. To me, he’s worth losing prospect depth over. Plus the Cards lose 3-4 SPs after this upcoming season. It’d like be worth talking at least, even if Cleveland balks.
Cleveland has money to spend though. With Blitzer now a minority owner and the ability to become the majority owner in 5 years, their is plenty of money to pay the players. Plus all the money every team got from revenue sharing from national tv contracts and the Disney sale.
They may have money but that doesn’t mean they will spend it quickly. I DO think they will try to lock up Bieber long term before the end of spring training, but if he expects the kind of money being thrown around this winter then he is as good as gone. Not impossible that they will sign McKenzie, Quantrill, Gimenez, Kwan, maybe even Rosario before spring training.
I was about to say that deal didn’t work out too well for Cleveland, but that was only true last year. This year is a whole new story. Did NY take on both salaries and give up prospects?
They had to pay Lindor and ended up in a terrible negotiating position with him. They got Gimenez, Rosario and two prospects (one of whom isn’t pitching well. The other has been ok in low A.)
The guardians equivalent of this trade is Steven Kwan, Oscar Gonzalez, and Gavin Williams for Andrew Murphy. Crazy ask.
Cleveland has good young unproven players major league ready. Cody Morris, Will Brennan, Tyler Freeman, Gabriel Arias.
They also have high end headlining prospects that they are willing to deal. George Valera, Brayan Rocchio, Logan Allen.
They don’t want to deal from their big three SP prospects but I would be surprised if they got a better offer than Morris, Freeman, Valera, and Allen. That is about as high as I would go.
I bet nootbar, Donovan would turn into pumpkins if they got traded to A’s. More like the 4th outfielder, utility type they actually are. If the trade got made the cardinals would’ve still hell onto Wynn, Gorman , walker, etc basically the top of the farm system intact other than the pitching prosect. And at some point Gorman, Wynn would be pushing for infield opportunities within the next season or so anyways
This can’t be true. Is Al Avila or Dave Littlefield the A’s GM? lol Murphy is worth 3 top 10 minor leaguers from a team….not 3 legit major leaguers lol
A’s see Murphy as the modern Johnny Bench.
Looks like A’s are seeking a premium due to the lack top tier catching which is understandable
Murphy is a career .236 hitter. Overrated.
Because average is THE most important aspect of a catcher lol
Good for the A’s.
They have plenty of reason to hold on to Murphy until they can get what they want. There are few players who could legit get MVP from Catcher – Murphy and – probably no-one.
By mid-year I anticipate the cost of acquiring Murphy will have gone up, the demand will be higher, and the A’s will still have no need to trade him unless they want to.
I’m glad they’re not selling low like they did on SO MANY players last year and in previous tear-downs.
Trading ability for potential RARELY works out for the team getting the ‘potential.’
A’s should wait.
Good call by them – and good luck Cards – you have a Bat first Catcher who isn’t able to play defense and isn’t worth putting at DH. I guess that is a win?
The Guardians would humbly take exception to your contention that trading ability for potential rarely works out of the team getting potential. We’ve been living on exactly those kinds of trades for 20 years.
You forgot about Cal Raleigh
So glad the Cards passed on that offer from the A’s. It is nice to get a player without trading away good young players for a change.
1 ML position player and one #10-30 prospect…maybe a 3rd, lower rated prospect.
Nootbaar is like a pair of vowel sandwiches on consonant bread.
When was the last time Oakland actually got something back worth a damn in a trade?? Yeah they got Langelers the Braves catcher, but haven’t seen him produce yet. They never seem to have a strong farm despite all the trades, always filled with low upside back of the rotation guys and utility hitters.
Lol everyone freaking out over a hearsay trade ask…you know it’s never the exact same players that are asked. Reporters gotta make their pay somehow.
Ramon Laureano
Well hindsight shows this is a trade the cardinals should have made. It would have unjammed the outfield some where no one in the early season can get in any sort of rhythm due to inconsistent playing time. The pitchers are struggling mightily and one would wonder if a better pitch framer and game caller would have been a better fit. Contreras can hit. Murphy can as well. The birds could have taken the dollars spent on Contreras and extended Murphy like the Braves did and may have had a few bucks left over for a decent late inning reliever. Hindsight is 20/20 though and the idea of trading that much controllable talent that can play well on the highest level would have definitely hurt. The problem is without consistent playing time the players the cards have held onto are losing value and may be considered 4th or 5th outfielders in a trade.