The Pirates and left-hander Rich Hill are in agreement on a one-year, $8MM deal, reports Jeff Passan of ESPN. The deal is pending a physical. Hill is an ACES client.
Hill, 43 in March, has one of the most unique baseball stories. He had some success as a starter early in his career, which began with the Cubs. Back in 2007, he made 32 starts for the Cubbies, tossing 195 innings with a 3.92 ERA. However, injuries and underperformance led to an extended period of struggle for Hill. He didn’t reach 60 MLB innings pitched in any season from 2008 to 2015, often struggling with his health or command or both while bouncing to Baltimore, Boston, Cleveland, the Angels and the Yankees.
Hill’s struggles were so pronounced that he wound up pitching for the Long Island Ducks for a spell in 2015, but he showed enough promise there to earn a minor league deal from the Red Sox. He got promoted late in the season and made four starts with an ERA of 1.55. That was enough for the A’s to take a gamble on him, as they signed him to a $6MM deal for his age-36 season. Hill cemented his improbable late-career comeback by posting a 2.12 ERA in 2016 over 20 starts and has continued to generally post solid results in each year since.
Hill isn’t a workhorse, as he hasn’t hit 160 innings in any season outside of that 2007 campaign with the Cubs. What he has been able to provide in recent years is generally strong innings on a rate basis. From 2016 to the present, he’s made at least 20 starts and logged at least 110 frames in five of the six full seasons, with 2019 being the lone exception when a forearm strain limited him to just 13 starts and 58 2/3 innings. In that time, he has a 3.39 ERA, 25.8% strikeout rate, 8% walk rate and 39.7% ground ball rate, spending time with the A’s, Dodgers, Twins, Rays, Mets and Red Sox.
The southpaw hasn’t been quite as successful in the past three seasons, especially in the strikeout department. While he punched out 29% of batters faced from 2016 to 2019, it’s been just 21.6% since then. That’s pushed his ERA up as well, as he got to 4.27 with Boston in 2022, with a 20.7% strikeout rate, 7% walk rate and 40.2% ground ball rate this year. Nonetheless, he’s still found ways to be effective, as his hard hit rate was in the 79th percentile this year and his average exit velocity in the 56th.
Going into his age-43 campaign, Hill still garnered plenty of interest on the open market this offseason. The Orioles, Angels, Rangers and Red Sox all showed some interest, but it’s the Pirates that have secured his services for 2023. Hill is the second rotation addition the club has made this offseason, as they also added Vince Velasquez a few weeks ago. Those two should slot next to Mitch Keller, JT Brubaker and Roansy Contreras in the club’s rotation, bumping Bryse Wilson to a long-relief role in the bullpen. The club will have Johan Oviedo, Luis Ortiz and some other arms available as depth for inevitable injuries or future trades. For those clubs that missed out on Hill, the free agent starting pitching market is now topped by the likes of Nathan Eovaldi, Corey Kluber, Michael Wacha and Johnny Cueto.
The Bucs have been firmly in rebuild mode for a few years and are coming off a 100-loss season, but they’ve been fairly active in adding veterans for 2023. They acquired Ji-Man Choi in a trade with the Rays and have also signed Carlos Santana, Austin Hedges and Jarlín García, as well as adding Velasquez and Hill to the rotation. All of those players are lined up to be short-term additions, as they are each slated for free agency after 2023. Though those players could make the club more competent for the upcoming season, they’re also lined up to be trade candidates about half a year from now unless the Pirates suddenly take a huge leap forward in their rebuilding process. Regardless, they should all be able to impart some wisdom to the younger players from their years in the game, with Hill the most qualified to contribute in that capacity. The retirement of Albert Pujols leaves him as the oldest player in the majors.
Financially, this signing bring the Pittsburgh payroll up to $70MM, according to the calculations of Roster Resource. That puts the club well beyond last year’s $56MM, per figures from Cot’s Baseball Contracts, but well shy of their franchise record of just under $100MM. There’s no real long-term investment to speak of, as Ke’Bryan Hayes is still the only player under contract for 2024, but this winter’s crop of one-year deals represents the most aggressive additions for the team in a few years.
Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.
The legend of Dick Mountain continues!
Dick Mountain let’s gooo! 42 and thriving!
Thank God Bloom cant sign him now thank you benjamin!
He was and still is useful but $8m is more than I expected. He should do even better in that park for the Pirates to flip at the deadline.
dewey – I agree on both counts, Hill could give at least a couple months of average or better starts.
It’s hilarious that some folks here think Eovaldi is worth less than $10M, and one person even said no more than $5M.
Nate will be earning at least double what Hill got.
1 year at 8 mill seems about right for a guy with a 4.27 ERA in a tough offensive division, small ballpark, with Devers/Bogaerts behind him.
Now that Hill will sign with Pittsburgh, BC won’t be in a hurry to trade Reynolds for a starting pitcher because that’s what he was asking for
You called it! 2 for $34 with the Rangers
he’s a fun gimmick for pirates fans.
Posters below are making fun of veterans going to Pittsburgh on free agent contracts but playing for the Pirates, there’s no pressure, unlike the larger markets, pitchers have in the past, resurrected their careers in Pittsburgh and the fans always make the players feel welcome.
Pitchers who have resurrected their careers while playing for the Pirates in recent years
AJ Burnett, Nelson Liriano, Jason Grilli, Tyler Anderson and José Quintana.
I have a Nelson Liriano jersey
I have an AJ Burnett home jersey autographed and framed, hanging next to my Andrea McCutchen home jersey also autographed
#TheMan 3 Andrea Mcutchen? Is that Andrew’s wife?
I misspelled his name, sue me
Sister
Rich Hill and Reynolds trade return have zero relevance.
Should have edited it and corrected it. That level of laziness and/or incompetence has gotten people sued before.
They can’t handle that “pressure cooker” of Yankee Stadium.
LOL
Burnett was a better pitcher for the Pirates than the Yankees and that’s a fact
Of course he was, he was an absolute disaster for the Yankees and even though he was good with the Marlins and the Blue Jays he was at his best with the Pirates.
How exactly does a 43-year-old resurrect his career? Is he banking on a lucrative multi-year deal to follow this pillow contract?
Exactly. There’s not much upside to Pittsburgh signing him. He won’t have any trade value either.
When you have to explain yourself, it’s usually to the poorly educated.
When the Pirates signed AJ Burnett to his final contract, he went on to having one of the lowest ERAs of his career, hit his first and only home run and was proud to have retired as a Pittsburgh Pirate
Again SMH
Jamie Moyer has entered the chat.
14 years 400 million, from SD
He resurrected his career previously. As to value, if he’s healthy in late July and pitching like he’s recently been, he’ll be wanted and flipped for a longshot or two but you never know.
That includes a 4 years guaranteed pitching coach deal after he retires in 2037. He’ll also be the player/ coach /manager for the “Old Timers” game for players 40 years or older.
Manfred wouldn’t allow. 10/305 max
I think that had more to do with the PED’s juicing his contract year than being a Pirate.
Steve – At Hill’s age those tiny blue pills are good at resurrecting just about anything, so why not careers too?
Definitely will have trade value. Teams will always want a sub 5 era lefty starter no matter their age.
I see this deal going poorly on paper.
but Hill will be a huge help to Keller and some of the young guys.
Psssst Frankie not Nelson
With signing with the Pirates there’s also a good chance he’ll get flipped to a contender at the deadline if he’s healthy, and be able to chase a WS ring
TheMan is correct. Stop hating on the Pirates everyone.
Nelson Liriano pitched to a .277 average with 8 hr and 68 rbi, getting into 219 games as a Pirate from 1995-1996. He truly resurrected his career as he went on to accumulate 1 hr and 5 sb over 273 at bats for the Twins and Yankees before retiring in 1998…
All due respect to Nelson, but I think he means “Francisco” Liriano. He had such a good year, even Pirates fans forgot his name!
You are correct, Fransisco not Nelson Liriano
I don’t think people hate the Pirates, they’ve just been the gold standard for “always bad” since the Royals had those couple good years. Reds could give them a run for their money but they had that brief period where management made an effort to get them to the playoffs.
Case- Pirate fans are naturally defensive from all of the “Pirate jokes” for the last three years.
To some extent the team deserves them.
But I remember in early 2019 saying that I felt for the fans of the Marlins,Tigers,Royals,and Orioles.The Pirates had been mediocre for 3 1/2 years.
The Pirates have been the worst team for the last 3 1/2 years but hopefully get far away from that this year when we dream of the mediocrity of the previous 3 1/2 year period.
But the other mentioned teams have pretty much been in the same rut for even longer than the Pirates,
Resurrection at 42 would be something
Now I realize there’s a 10 year difference in age, no one wanted José Quintana last year and the Pirates signed him to a one year contract.
His career was in fact resurrected
Point being, pitchers that have been cast off as has beens can resurrect their careers playing for a team that doesn’t have high expectations which is why José pitched well enough to sign a $20 million dollar contract this off season.
Proof the MLB players need the Pirates franchise.
So Bloom, are we going to get any starting pitching… at all? Lol
Knowing Bloom, he is probably setting up a team of spot starters and guys who can start two innings of a game before switching to the pen.
In all honesty though, Hill was ineffective this year.
An era around 4.00 is what you hope for from a fifth starter. Concern is expected innings in 23.
It’s not the ERA I’m worried about with Hill. It was durability. An ERA of 4.00 means nothing when you get through 3 to 4 innings on average. Guy barely got through 5, let alone 6. Some of it was Cora pulling him and treating him as an old man but a lot of it was ineffective outings.
When Pivetta is your #2, there’s serious issues here.
PW, While you may want more, what do you expect to get from a #5 starter?
dewey – In 2018 the #5 starter (after Nate was acquired) was Porcello, he had a 4.28 ERA and led the team with 191 Innings Pitched and had a 1.176 WHIP.
I don’t think that’s too much to ask of a fifth starter.
As much as I despise Porcello for his mediocrity, I 100% approve of him as a 5th starter.
Mediocre porcello is a Cy young winner
Yes, he pitched good for 2 years out of 12 or however many it was and stole the Cy Young from Verlander on all second place votes. Then he went back to being mediocre the very next year.
Nope they think putting houck and Whitlock back in the rotation that’s it’s ok not too sign any pitchers and it’s sicken he has no idea what he is doing has no idea how too run a higher payroll team . I’m sorry but dude shouldn’t be in baseball he knows NOTHING about it or the players . And little do they know both houck and Whitlock should be in the bullpen where they belong
I do agree Whitlock belongs in the bullpen. That much I can say
You think the Red Sox re-signing Rich Hill would’ve been a good idea?
Baaaaahahaha!!!
Pirates are paying 8M to a 43yo, who only made 1o.5M IN TOTAL over the past 3 years COMBINED. You guys think Red Sox shouldve gone the same or higher to get him? Seriously?
Do you guys know anything about baseball or you just come here for the whining? Wait, I think I know the answer.
Fun to see people rip on others but have incorrect info in their messages. The deal is for $8M. And over the last three years he’s made about the over the last three years.
It was reported early that Hill and Boston would agree to a contract. It would’ve been a good buy low on a guy that’s been a constant for them plus he’s enjoyed pitching close to home. But Pittsburgh wants to pay twice his value. Good for him. Helluva last contract!
I never said it was a good deal or even implied it. Rich Hill was very ineffective last year. But we do have a starting pitcher issue…
I wasn’t responding to you pwndroia. If you click on the bell (top right) corner, you can tell it wasn’t a response to you. I just ended up right below you because of when I posted.
Your point is completely reasonable, no disagreement here.
Exactly. Should the Sox surprise and compete in 23, I can see where Bloom send Dalbec should he still be on the team and not improving back.
Yeah, it came up on the bell, which is why I replied, but I kinda figured that after I posted it. Checking replies on here is so confusing and not user friendly.
My apologies, wasnt meant for you. Youve always had quality posts.
He’s following ownership’s wishes. That said I’ve been posting for a while that Houck and Whitlock should be in the pen. Whitlock is the perfect fireman whether it be the 7th or 8th inning and Houck should replace Barnes and be the next closing option when Jansen can’t go. If anything, tell Barnes to stretch out his arm to be a starter. I for one can’t take his inconsistency as a reliever. I know he turned it on late last year but he simply can’t be trusted in key late inning games.
I think Houck could start but Whitlock has proved better in the pen time and time again.
Bloom wants to ride his big maple all the way to another last place finish
So if Bloom signed Rich Hill for 8M, you would’ve been pleased with that move? I would’ve thought the reaction wouldve been negative from the Bloom haters.
This is a terrible contract.
I agree but it’s a one year deal so who cares? It’s just more money out of the owners pocket and in to the players.
1 year deal and a prospect, right? Because someone on the 40-man would have to be waived and certainly would get claimed. And, Red Sox are at the point they are waiving better prospects than Thad Ward.
If it were a decent FA pitcher (Eovaldi, Wacha, Kluber), I’m fine with it. But, Red Sox have better options than Hill at Triple A. I wouldn’t waste the roster spot right now on him.
So if Bloom signed Rich Hill for 8M, you would’ve been pleased with that move?
=========================
“I’d expect a mid 5s era from him”
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
From GA last year.
Lol!!!
Fair. I was approaching it from a Pirates pov. Maybe they flip him at the deadline for a flier if he gets hot at the right time. I don’t think that’ll happen but it’s possible.
agreed. There are plenty of things to justifiable critique or criticize Bloom about but this isn’t one of them for all the reasons you said. It’s almost like people will use any excuse to complain about Bloom anytime something remotely related to the red sox is posted.
Or, cut brasier to the wind and be done with it. No need to cut a prospect when we’ve got trash like that still hanging around
For 3m more than brasier, I’d rather swap hill into the mix
That’s what completely derails them. One of could be the GM, and still be right 30-40% of the time. To pretend someone has to be wrong 100% is nonsensical. Same with the predicted W/L records. I think GA predicted 70 wins. You can be critical WITHOUT making strange predictions and criticizing every move.
Joe – yes, I did say I’d be surprised if they made 70 wins as the roster was, back before several roster moves have been made, and, I expect more moves to come.
I don’t bet, but you did ask if I’d bet on a number of w/l prematurely like kd did… and my answer is the same, I’ll make a final prediction on w/l when the roster is set. Not that I expect bloom to do anything amazing to move the needle, but, I think a range between 64-80wins is still currently in the window by the time all is said and done. A surprise trade might change things, but, FA market is picked over by this point.
Someone waived from the Buc’s 40-man ‘certainly claimed’? Might want to check the list before you make that assumption.
FullMontilla: Red Sox not Buc’s.
This whole thread is about ‘if the Red Sox signed Rich Hill’, not Buc’s.
Guess you couldnt be bothered reading the thread or even the next sentence for that matter:
“Because someone on the 40-man would have to be waived and certainly would get claimed. And, Red Sox are at the point they are waiving better prospects than Thad Ward.”
I don’t bet, but you did ask if I’d bet on a number of w/l prematurely like kd did… and my answer is the same, I’ll make a final prediction on w/l when the roster is set.
=================================
That’s pretty much my point. Even if they hadn’t signed one more player at that point, they’d likely have won more than 70.
You’re basically saying that we had a 78-win team that lost JD. Eovaldi, and Bogaerts’ 8.4 bWAR, reducing us to 70 wins. But without acknowledging the $56M we spent on the players. It’s a classic suckers bet that I’ve been using since I was a kid.
But more to the point, it makes no sense to come to the 70win conclusion when Bloom still had a gazillion $$$ to spend.
Which, Joe, is why I couched it as the team as it currently sat. That is a completely rational observation when someone evaluates the current lay of the land showing how much work was left to do.
I still do not see the current roster as being able to break .500 as it sits, and I also dont see any moves left that they would make to get am impact player into the mix.
Which, Joe, is why I couched it as the team as it currently sat.
==================================
The exact quote, in its entirety, was:
“Odds are 2023 will make that twice excluding covid that sox don’t break 70 wins”
Again, this is fairly simple math, but a lot of people make the same mistake.. This goes for any team, but compare how many wins they lost for how much money. And then how many wins they will pick up by using the money that they saved.
Bloom: Not my fault, man. Those dastardly Pirates outbid me.
So you wanted Hill for the $8M?
Nobody wants Hill for 8 mil. I’m just mentally keeping track of all the players guys like Bloom say they’re “interested” in and somehow go elsewhere without a fight. I’m still wrapping my head around them not re-signing JD
JD showed an alarming decline last year so I can’t say I blame them for passing on him.
Hearing ATL was a close 6th but only comfortable offering 0.5 years and 200K.
He’ll only pitch half a year so that part of your proposal is spot on
The stupidity is off the charts on the Atl hate. Their luxury tax commitments are over 200 million… they’ve done plenty of spending
If you know how to run a team. Why aren’t you a GM ?
I guess thought process is to have a veteran around for the young guys and then flip him at the deadline. Also that the Pirates are spending a little money I guess is good.
Agreed 100. Nice to see them doing something. Hope he stays healthy.
The Energizer pitcher. Surprisingly he still has something left. Good move, although I’d prefer Kluber.
You won’t get much back for Rich Hill
I don’t understand how he accepted only a few million the last years and he somehow gets more after a worse year this year at a higher age. He is probably worth this amount, but 2021 should have gotten him a higher rate than the one he signed for this year. It’s quite strange.
Have you seen the uptick in salaries this off-season?
Salaries had flatlined for years and the pandemic impact certainly was factored in recently. Now that revenue is more certain—we”ve seen the increases come in. Just the cost of doing business now.
His FIP was also better than 2021. Actual era didn’t show that. He was largely the same guy and was healthy all year also.
He was also coming off an awful season in 2020. He looked close to done and his peripherals compared to his years in LA were awful. At that point and 41 he was never going to get much. The uptick is general salary inflation, even worse starting pitcher inflation, and that he showed he could be around league average even with lesser stuff.
Inflation plus the Pirates have to pay a premium to bring anyone to town because they suck
MLB inflation is greatly outpacing regular inflation. Inflation was like 9% last year, not 190%, but the peripherals are something I overlooked. K/BB ratio and Homeruns per 9 predict the future, while ERA evaluates past performance.
If only it were that simple.
Whether its the Pirates, Yankees, or Mets, the only way to sign a free agent is to bid more than 29 other teams are willing to pay. Every team pays a premium.
Except when a FA takes less to go play where he wants to. It’s a small number but the Pirates certainly don’t have the location or organization quality where it’s a destination.
Turner picked the Phillies. FA pitchers looking to rebuild value talk about specific organizations they’ve targeted. IE dodgers.
Kyle Gibson just accepted a deal to go to Baltimore because he wanted to work with the staff here.
As a fan of this franchise since 1966, after reading opinions from people like you, it’s refreshing to know that we live in different universes.
The Bucs are a small market club, the local television revenue is puny compared to those of the Yankees, Dodgers or Red Sox.
While the owner is a reincarnated version of Ebenezer Scrooge, presently the team is in a rebuilding process and are accumulating talent for years to come.
The signing of Hill is significant because as a veteran he has the ability to help the younger pitchers, providing leadership.
I don’t expect you to understand these concepts though. Insults is the only concept you have
Not cool man. The don’t suck. They’re just waiting to strike.
KZW
“Waiting to strike”
Players Association signed off on bargaining agreement. no strike forthcoming.
It was a joke. I’m a Pirates fan by the way, so I’m allowed to joke. Anyways, I meant like strike while the iron was hot. Strike like a cobra. I didn’t mean an actual union strike.
Always admired me some Rich Hill. Great competitor and very humble human being. That interview after signing that large contract with the Dodgers and getting paid will always get me.
Damn, look at the Pirates spending money. They’re almost caught up to the Dodgers this off-season.
The Dodgers haven’t spent a damn thing this off-season. But go off…
I think that’s more of his point.
‘Twas indeed my tongue-in-cheek point from a grizzled Dodger fan still waiting for our first trophy since ‘88.
The Dodgers spent 20 million to sign Clayton Kershaw, a future Hall of Famer coming off a season where he was elite but also injured at times. Kershaw alone is over 25 percent of the total team payroll for several teams. So while guys like Heyward and Miller are like shopping at Dollar Tree, it is inaccurate to say that they have spent nothing.
You forgot about the 22 million for Bauer.
It’s worth it for his manly presence in the clubhouse.
That’s old news.
Wanted him for the Sox but I can see where $8million can go a long way in Pittsburgh.
Always like me some Rich Hill. Always a great competitor, and a good family man. That interview he did right after signing that large contract with the Dodgers will always hit me very humble man.
What did he say?
Good move for the Pirates.
Always like me some Rich Hill. Always a great competitor, and a good family man. That interview he did right after signing that large contract with the Dodgers will always hit me very humble man. Nice piece for the Pirates.
You should post this a fourth time.
Always like me some Rich Hill. Always a great competitor, and a good family man. That interview he did right after signing that large contract with the Dodgers will always hit me very humble man. Nice piece for the Pirates.
Travis- In man’s defense I have had serious problems posting since the advent of the ads.
Yeah I have seen many of my posts show up 3 or 4 times, then had to try to delete the extra ones.
You can say that again! No really, go ahead and post it again. And then again.
I watch that interview every single day. Can’t get enough of it.
Hill must really hate being at home with his family to sign with the Pirates.
Wow a pitcher gets paid exactly what he’s worth. Pirates are winning the whole “pay veterans the value of their WAR number from the previous year” game, between this and the Carlos Santana deals. Good values. Fair deals. Nothing more, nothing less. Pirates night boy be overpaying anybody, but they’re not underpaying their free agent signings either.
I wish there was more of these median value signings.
*might not be overpaying anybody etc
Good assessment. This isn’t the year for splash additions or big spending. I like the additions they’ve made because they all seem to have the combined value of putting the team in contention to hover around .500 all year and start to win a little more consistently. We may not get over .500 by year’s end, but these additions should help build a stronger clubhouse and culture that is starting to experience a little bit more good feels and wins. With the number of prospects we’ll be bringing up over the next two years, this isn’t necessarily about making a run just yet. To me it is more about putting the young kids in a position to come up and succeed.
The next two off seasons are where Nutting and GMBC will nut up and invest in this team or not.
Ownership investing in the Pirates? Lucy will definitely hold the football still this time.
Like some sort of Goldie Locks’ deal. I mean, if your into the blond thing.
Feel like this is a out the 3rd largest contract the Pirates have given a free agent. Sarcasm. Mostly.
The duplicate comments problem with this app is frustrating.
Dick Mountain comes to Muhammad!
$8M seems a bit high for a 4-5 inning pitcher.
too much for sure 4-5 innings and 3-4 months
To go to Pittsburgh it’s exactly fair value.
Not many Pirate starters made it past the 5th inning last year anyway
Not bad for the Pirates, although he’s probably a good candidate to be flipped at the trade deadline.
Well, at least I can travel to Pittsburgh to see him pitch if I want. I’m only about 90 minutes away.
We care because….
I kind of care because I’m curious why he wants to see him pitch
I doubt I would open my blinds to see it
This isn’t the year for splash additions or big spending. I like the additions they’ve made because they all seem to have the combined value of putting the team in contention to hover around .500 all year and start to win a little more consistently. We may not get over .500 by year’s end, but these additions should help build a stronger clubhouse and culture that is starting to experience a little bit more good feels and wins. With the number of prospects we’ll be bringing up over the next two years, this isn’t necessarily about making a run just yet. To me it is more about putting the young kids in a position to come up and succeed.
The next two off seasons are where Nutting and GMBC will nut up and invest in this team or not.
Gotta move quickly because only 6 years of control on those rookies. Windows can close quickly.
When is the year we will see big spending?
I am surprised he didn’t go to a contender. They must have sold him on mentoring the young’uns and/or getting flipped at the deadline.
That is exactly what they did with Anderson and Quintana
The problem is those guys were like 2 million a piece
Maybe someone should check and see if Bob Nutting is still alive, these are shocking contracts they are giving out for a team that’s not close
I believe it was the 8 million that sold him.
He gets $8m and was promised a spot in the rotation. Plus he’ll be traded to a contender in July.
Eddie Rosario has about the same contract. He’s available, if the Pirates are interested.
Is he a left hand starter capable of a 3 something era?
Pirates are going to be surprisingly good this year.
They have the makings of a good SP staff. Good young core of position players with some really good talent primed to take off next year.. they just need to solidify that bullpen and they’re going to be good
I dont see it. Rotation of Brubaker, Keller, Hill, Conteras, et al. isnt going to be competitive. Bullpen isnt good. The most interesting thing this year is finding out if Hayes has real upside ot not and what will Cruz be?
Keller was pretty decent finishing out the season, hopefully that continues. Conteras has the makings of being a top rotation starter. Brubaker is a mid/back end guy. Hill has been steady the past couple years.. not really good but good enough to stick in a rotation especially in the pirates rotation lol.
Priester should get a few innings this year as well.
the pitching is already better going into the year.
Hayes is a glove first (really good glove first) contact hitter… the balls haven’t been falling for him though so he will need to adjust there. he can get closer to league average offense then he would be fine probably be the highest fwar on the team in that case.
Cruz is frustrating to me lol. seems to be selling out for power. few less strike outs.. few more gap shots using those legs of his.. his offense will be great. his defense is where the real problem is once these middle infielders start coming up this year he needs to accept the fact he needs to move to the OF. his ability at short just isn’t good enough to stick at short at the moment. I will say though it has been better than I expected. I think his speed and arm would put him in the running for a gold glove in the OF.
Bullpen looks like a top 15. Rotation average. I can see Mendoza’s 75 wins.
Armchair- I thought that last year.
Fool me once,shame on you,fool me twice,shame on me.
They may be “good” this year,but that entails winning 75 games for these Pirates.
Padres offered 2 years 20 million but he wanted to play in Pittsburgh instead
I doubt that, but who really knows
It was clearly a joke.
Orange-No it wasn’t.Hill did not want to play in San Diego.
I was really hoping Pirates would swim in deeper waters this winter and sign someone like Manaea, but I do like that they have bolstered the clubhouse with veterans who know what it takes to win.
Definitely BC’s best winter as the Pirates GM.
Scott- BC has been hampered by the Pirates owner.
If it is true that there are minimum spending limits due to the new agreement with the Players Union,this may be the most important cause of this reckless spending for them.
how would he be hampered? There is no good reason to be signing much more than they’ve gotten so far.
The team is starting to poke their heads from a rebuild. Ben’s signings make sense. some players who could be good, if the team is good they’re cheap enough to keep for a run. If they’re good and the teams position isn’t favorable they can get something back. If they’re not good they can just release them. like they did with a couple last year.. though they waited a bit too long to do so.
I wouldn’t call the spending reckless either. Most are getting around what they should be plus maybe a million more.. you know inflation and there are more signings than we are used to seeing.
One i would like to see the pirates be trying harder for is Cueto…. partially so we can yell “Cueto!” to mess with him…. was a long shot to get him to begin with and now with Hill signing.. yeah no.
If there is a minimum spending limit I have not seen it in the CBA. You would think it would be a huge deal if it was there.
Joe- I was not clear.He has been hampered previously by not having a second decent catcher last year and having to trade Marte and Bell.
A poster had mentioned that there is some sort of a minimum salary total over an extended period of three or four years as I took it.
This kind of spending when below a 500 team is unprecedented for Nutting.
In an aggregate this is a lot of money to dump for a small market team.They had zero first basemen last year now they have three.Granted they were embarrassed last year,but in my mind there has to be other reasons to spend on these extra veteran players
And,no,Johnny Cueto would never come to Pittsburgh unless they were the only team that gave him a ML offer.
they don’t spend ‘we’ complain, they do spend ‘we’ complain (/s clearly)
I understand what you are getting at as far as the current signings. I feel the reasons are typical but with a little more optimism. One the obvious the rental trade bait factor. Second if the younger guys rise to the call with hopefully upgraded positions… it might be enough to look at this team as coming out of the rebuild. To me it makes sense. If Ben told Bob that I think Bob wouldn’t have much to worry about.
Bell and Marte pretty much had to go. Not because they are bad players or people but their status in the league doesn’t fit when you are tearing it all down. heck even Reynolds is on the border line of that.
Are the Mets going to swoop in here after his physical?
That joke is about as old as Jacob DeGrom’s Tommy John ligament.
Boston cant do this guy a solid and sign him to a deal so he can retire w/ the hometown club?
Boston probably low balled him, sad day in FA –
He’s gonna put up zeros at PNC… if he’s healthy
if they get a prospect for him at the trade deadline, then this is a good deal for the Bucco’s .
Feeling like his last year.
A starter for the vast majority of his career and he still has only 1,259 ip in 18 years. Persistent bugger. Somehow became at least moderately durable at age 36. Interesting that he put it together with the Dodgers, and pitched more than half his career innings since going to LA at 36.
Verrry interesting…
Lots of money to spend on a pitcher who is lucky that he gets through the first quarter of the year let alone the first two thirds,
One of these days I’ll wake up and find out that Rich Hill has gotten older than me. And I’m 71. Anyhoo, the Pirates have actually spent a little money this offseason and brought in some guys who aren’t top shelf by any means but aren’t embarrassments, either. Still can’t see them contending but the Central is the weakest of the NL divisions and maybe a miracle will happen. Or probably not.
8 million?!? LOL
if the yankees would have some young promising pitchers to trade then Reynolds could have been theirs but it doesn’t look like that’s happening now
“Lets go to John Heyman for the answer, John?”
“Mystery team”
“Thanks John”
Wow now even the Pirates are picking at the remains of the Red Sox.
Oviedo and Brubaker seem more promising than Velasquez or Hill. But during the course of 2023 all should get ample opportunity to start alongside Contreras and Keller.
What is crazy is the central is such a weak division that someone like the pirates spent a little on middle tier players they could have a chance at being in the division race until very late.
When I think of the pirates always think of the power house teams that they had in 1989; 1990; 1991 and 1992.
Yep. A lineup with Barry Bonds, Bobby Bonilla, Andy Van Slyke and Jay Bell and a starting rotation with guys like Doug Drabek, John Smiley, Zane Smith, and Bob Walk. Its amazing that none of those teams could break through and get to at least one World Series
R- It was because they all hit 160 in the playoffs.
That’s why guys like Clemente,Mazeroski,and Stargell were clutch.
They did it in the WS.
And the Pirates could never afford great veteran players like that any more.
Us Pirates have to be content with the 2013-2015 version for now.
Braves had even better teams.
Sounds like a guy you send out and hope for 18 outs. Apparently the agents for Dylan Bundy and Sonny Gray unplugged their phones.
Now playing for his twelfth team, there’s no reason he can’t go for Edwin Jackson’s record of fourteen. (Or at least tie Octavio Dotel for second with thirteen different teams.)
Well he’ll for sure be dealt at the deadline if his era is under 4.50..so he’s got a legit shot..
Rich had a few bad games for Boston last year, but many that they just couldn’t close out with their relievers. Once they move two good relievers into starting, along with a handful of triple A pitchers, Paxton and Sale get hurt, and they finish with 50 wins, maybe then ownership will wake up to the increasingly obvious fact that Bloom knows less than nothing about putting together an mlb baseball team, nor building a minor league system that can allow them to continually compete. They had that guy in Cherington.
50 wins? And people wonder why I make fun of Red Sox fans.
Last year the Reds and Pirates won 62, the Red Sox should easily win 67 in 2023.
The Pirates play AAA ball right?
Great signing. Since 2016 he’s averaged 108 innings per season.
.600 win %
3.39 era
era+ 120
So Pirates getting a 1/2 season starter producing very good results for $8m?
Seems like a good deal. If they had 2 Rich Hills it’s 216 innings of decent pitching for $16m. A lot less than you’d pay a single pitcher with a 3.39 era.
What’s not to like?
Bring on the hate…
@GmanGoop Noop. That’s 119 innings, pro rating 2020. Divide by 0.37 for the 60 game season in this case, rather than 1.00.
Gosh. Please do let baseball reference know. The figures are their calculations. Thank you for your feedback. 119 innings makes my point even more relevant.
Solid sign. can’t complain. The rotation is in fairly good shape going into the season for the first time in almost 10 years and they got some solid AAA pitchers waiting.
Good luck to him. I liked him for the RS, but $8M is a bit pricey.
Today’s $8 mil is yesterdays $5 mil. The sad reality of the cost of pitching.
Most unique! Is that more unique than totally unique? I am uniquely curious!
Laughing Blue. Best comment of the day. However I think it will be missed by the commenters here.
It’s just a little oxymoron. It can’t hurt you.
I thought it was awfully good.
If you have a basket of 20 apples and theres one orange in it. That orange is unique. Add a kitten to the group, and there would be 2 unique items in the basket and the kitten would be the ‘most unique’.
Also, where are you seeing an “oxymoron”?
Unique means one of a kind, not like anything else. It’s a word that should be reserved for this special situation. Can I please have the kitten? If not, how about the orange?
Oxymoron, a contradiction. A thing is either unique, or it isn’t. To say that it is “most unique” could also be called a contradiction because nothing can be more one of a kind than being one of a kind. It’s a paradox. You know, like Ben Casey and Gregory House.
So I cant say remove the two unique items (cat and orange) from the basket, because why? And if I say remove the most unique item from the basket (the mammal) is wrong too? Sure, whatever.
Also, an oxymoron is a contradiction. Most and unique do not contradict each other. This is not an example of one.
Grammar Police. Lol.
You can say anything you want, but that doesn’t make it right.
Yes, it is a contradiction, if you know what that means. No grammar was harmed in the making of this point, since none was involved.
So what about that kitten?
“One of the most unique stories”
A lot closer than your sarcastic examples
Unique is one of a kind so saying very unique is a no-no
But multiple players can have different unique stories
So can some stories be “more” one of a kind than others? Arguably yes, some unique stories could have similar but slightly different equivalents
People who live in houses with Gavin Stone (for Dodgers fans) or Stone Garrett (one of the best FA deals of off-season) shouldn’t throw glass
It’s like the argument in the Big Bang Theory. Stu says Sheldon is very wrong. Sheldon replies that ‘wrong’ is an absolute and you cannot be very wrong. Stu responds by saying ‘saying a tomato is a vegetable is wrong, Saying a tomato is a bridge is very wrong’.
Solid argument there
Trust me, I couldn’t throw Gavin Stone. I probably couldn’t even pick him up.
Well, anyway Dodger fans don’t have a lot else to talk about this offseason.
Well Gavin Stone weighs 40-50 pounds less than Bobby Miller but that still doesn’t make him “Miller Lite”.
Ha. Good one!
Guess they didn’t have a tough Hill to climb to sign him after all.
Wow…Bucs sign someone I have actually heard of.
Took 8 million to get him to Pittsburgh. Expensive future prospect. Only cost Boston 5 last year I do believe
Probably a base salary of 2MM, then bonuses based on innings pitched. There’s no way that this front office would drop that much on a player of his age.
Things were looking semi ok as far as FA signings, but this is a little too far out of the box. I half expected to see Dallas Keuchel sign with the Pirates before Rich Hill.
More stupid money being spent by a team that can’t afford to waste it. This signing boggles the mind.
I bet you are fun at parties.
No it doesn’t. His value as role model with pitching savvy and intellect will benefit the youngsters. He really impressed me when he pitched for the Mets.
Umm, $8 mill should buy you a helluva lot more than that.
Not anymore. $8m doesn’t get you very far these days.
There must be something wrong with my eyes, I thought the headline said Rich Hill signed with the Pirates.
The Pirates will be Hill’s 12th team when he pitches his first game for them next season which puts him just 2 away from Edwin Jackson’s record of teams played with
When he’s dealt at the deadline he’ll be at 13. Anyone care to predict at this early hour who Hill will be playing for on 8/1/23?
if it is going to be so easy to flip Hill at the deadline why was Bloom not able to do so last deadline?
Do we even know he tried? So far this winter what he says doesn’t line up with what he’s doing, so if he said he was trying to move Hill, there is no proof that was actually the case.
Solar- Yes.It will be the Pittsburgh Pirates on the IL as he will not last 2/3 of the season.
STL
When the Pirates signed Santana, I thought they were acquiring “over the hill,” but now it’s just getting silly. Hill and Santana are twenty percent of their payroll. These had better be two of the best mentors in the game because otherwise there were much stronger plays to make. Liked the Garcia signing though.
Manny- Agreed.If the Pirates had a good coaching staff the need for mentors would be lessened.And you don’t have to pay $6M and $8M for them anyway.
Players need mentoring from veterans no matter who the coach is.
I understand that but their first and foremost reason for being signed is that their play helps the team win and they will be able to last physically.
Perez was a good signing last year but they needed a second solid backup catcher since Perez had an injury history and was not going to last the whole year.
You saw how that turned out.
Garcia hadn’t signed yet, look at 40 man
@21Clemente21
I believe they are still waiting on the physical. May be or have been out of town?
Seems like a rather long time to be waiting for the results.
I could be making that up though.
I have both projected for surplus value. Would love to hear your stronger plays. But only if they are same amount of money or cheaper.
I think it was Travis Sawchik but there was a Pirate beat writer who beat the drum for the Pirates to sign Rich Hill year after year.
This was like a decade ago, but…
Dreams can come true…long after you forgot about them…sometimes.
This is typical Pirates, get the guy 5-10 years to late
yeah i was on that bandwagon too. think it was when we were actually thinking about doing good.. that year we were doing well until that game with the blown call at home…. I think the fort got injured in that game as well.
beyond awful
I liked this team better when they didnt spend money
Way too much on a guy thats going to be there 4 months
I agree with quintana and anderson, but this is too much for too little.
Amazing point by Gman, they are hoping to get his best for half a year then hopefully flip him and bring up the young guns like Priester, Ortiz, Burrows and possibly Jones. Next years starting rotation should be one of the strongest rotations they have had since the early 90’s.
And if it was a $2 to $4 million deal, you could hope for that. Better to pitch Oviedo now and use the $8 million to obtain a prospect
Manny-BC has done a good job in accumulating young arms and he is going to have to get rid of another one for a 42 year old pitcher.
Dr- Should or could?
None of these guys have pitched in the MLS yet.
That is what we’re as said about Glasgow and Keller when they came up.
Prospects are just prospects until they prove themselves in the MLs,in which they have not been,nor really even in AAA.
Mendoza, good catch “should” have said “could”?
Let’s hope for the sake of Pirate fans that you were correct.
Wild card teams had great rotations. These guys will be incredible if they are even that good.
$8 mil for 43 yr old Rich Hill yikes, and why go to a team that won’t win, he should end his career on a team that has a chance to win
he still might. more than a fair chance he will be with a better team at the end of the July.
why go to a team that won’t win? Umm 8 million dollars.
I had no idea he was still in the league but props to him for still being able to do what he loves at his age and making money.
Rich Hill for CY Young 2023!
maybe a million or two too high but still a good signing. The worst part of the price is that it may make a trade more difficult assuming that is the plan.
pirates added rotation, pen, outfield, 1b and catcher. Exactly what they needed. They got them all fairly cheap. Now it all depends on how they perform.
Will be more interesting spring and deadline. so here is the hope.. at the dead line a contender needs a rental starter, pen, of and first base players… so we can get a decent return rather than what one would typically get for a rental.
Most contenders have already blown past the tax. 3 million isn’t going to matter and the Pirates can always eat most of that to get a better prospect.
yeah i see eating it probably would be a likely option. LA is trying to get under the cap now that they have an additional 20m or so added to their cap number
Rich Hill is class act, pro’s pro and very pitching savvy. I was so impressed with his intellect and authenticity when he pitched for the Mets. He’s going to be a good leader/role model for the young Pirates.
The older I get the more I like rooting for the old guys lol. It’s a harsh thing to be in a job where you are worth nothing after you hit age 35. I guess that’s why they make millions till then
Yeah I heard on Sirius radio about his deal with PITTSBURGH and thought either the number was wrong or the team was wrong. Seems hard to believe he got a 8 million deal. From Pittsburgh of all teams wow.
MLB probably quietly advised Nutting to up the payroll in the short term to save himself longer term issues.
He’ll likely be traded for a surprisingly light return in July so it only costs Nutting a bit over $4 million.
Who do you think the Pirates will DFA to add Hill to the roster?
Sad to think that they will drop someone now that will be far better than what they get at trade deadline for Hill, so why do the deal in the first place?
Oh, for mentoring
21-Even sadder,I give Hill 2-3 months before he gets hurt and they will not be able to trade him.
Anyone near 40 years of age is problematic.
I hope that I am wrong because Hill has generally been a good pitcher.I do not doubt that they have an understanding that they will try to trade him to a contender at the trade deadline but he has to make it to there healthy in the first place.
Too many to choose from. I will go Wilson or Underwood. Underwood because he will make more than minimum wage and has decent trade value. Wilson is hard for them to cut a minimum wage high 4 era starter but they have 7 better mlb options and another 3 just waiting for their 2023 call up. Andujar makes real money but the probably like his potential from past production. Vilade I have no idea how they value him. Can’t rule out Swaggerty but they kept him this long so maybe want to give him final look. Jong could be a option as well.
Dream-I think that the reason that Garcia has not been rostered is that BC has been trying to trade your man Underwood.
I understand your thoughts on Wilson but I think that he is one of those guys who has some ability but has not been consistent and they have had him for only basically one year.
I am not sure that Swaggerty is going to be any better than a fifth outfielder who is good field but not so much of a hitter.
De Jong pitched well last year except when genius kept on trotting him out to close when Bednar was hurt.
At this point though BC is really earning his pay since if Hoy Park can get someone in return BC should be able to get someone of some value for these other guys.
None of those guys look painful to lose. Whatever Ben does should be fine unless it’s someone I didn’t name. And there are 5 more guys I wouldn’t be concerned about losing.
Former-The better question is the same for Garcia who was supposedly signed two weeks ago.
I think that Underwood needs to go and I am thinking that they will DFA Max Kranick and hope that he will not be signed as he will be on the 60 day IL the whole year.
Probably want to hold Max and replace him with backup catcher. Another team will claim him and do the same.
Dream-
It would be good to keep Kranick but the only other one to dfa would be Vilade and they seem high on him.
They will be using Heinaman as the backup to start this year and BC was smart in doing so.I was critical of him for just having Perez last year who was good but clearly not destined to last the season.When they put Kranick on the IL they will move Heinaman to the roster.He will be up for hopefully no more than 4-6 weeks so Endy can come up assuming that he improves at catching in AAA and hits there like he did last year in the lower levels.Heinaman can be dropped if Endy plays OK and he or Delay would be available if an injury occurs and they are needed.
I think Wilson Underwood Swaggerty Jong Andujar could all be dfa before Max. Not that Max can’t go but he wouldn’t be my 1st choice.
Fair enough signing. Pirates have to pay 2 or 3 million more than a contender. He would have pitched to a well below 4 era last year if in Pittsburgh.
Dick Mountain just won’t quit.
Always like me some Rich Hill. Always a great competitor, and a good family man. That interview he did right after signing that large contract with the Dodgers will always hit me very humble man. Nice piece for the Pirates.
I really like what the pirates have done this offseason, and I haven’t been able to say that in awhile. These veterans guys can help the youngsters learn how to be mlb players.
Curiously, Carlos Santana caught 84 games for Cleveland ten years ago when Hill was on the team. Dunno if he specifically caught Hill, but perhaps there’s some rapport there that could benefit Hedges. Speaking of Austin, I think it’s part of a government conspiracy to deny Guardians fans the pleasure of a nice Benson and Hedges during the games.
Why the Tigers didn’t get some good.fielders up the middle and sign a slew of pitchers to trade over.the years to get prospects…why, why, why?
This new guy is another one of those “I am smarter than everyone else…I can pick diamonds out of the sump pile…….because I am so much smarter with my anylitics……
Really?
Trying to get lucky?
There is no.substitute for doing it the right way.
Congrats Rich Hill. A nice bridge to your first Social Security check