TODAY: The Mets officially announced Senga’s deal.
DECEMBER 10: The Mets have agreed to a five-year, $75MM deal with right-hander Kodai Senga, SNY’s Andy Martino reports (Twitter links). Senga’s contract also has no-trade protection and an opt-out clause following the 2025 season, as per The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal (via Twitter). The deal will become official when Senga passes a physical. Senga is represented by the Wasserman Agency.
The contract figure exactly matches the projection from MLBTR, as Senga ranked 11th on the list of the offseason’s Top 50 Free Agents. There is no further posting fee involved in the Mets’ costs, since Senga became a full free agent after exercising an opt-out clause in his contract with Nippon Professional Baseball’s Fukuoka SoftBank Hawks.
Senga turns 30 in January, and he leaves the Hawks after 11 outstanding seasons. The righty has a 2.59 ERA, 28.22% strikeout rate, and 9.33% walk rate over 1089 innings at Japan’s highest level. Senga’s four-pitch arsenal is highlighted by an excellent splitter and a fastball that routinely hits the upper-90s. Scouting reports indicate that Senga’s control is sometimes inconsistent, but otherwise, many pundits feel his stuff can translate quite well to North American baseball.
It was just over a year ago that Senga signed a new five-year deal with the Hawks, but with the important proviso of the opt-out clause that he was widely expected to use, assuming he amassed the necessary service time needed for full free agency. That was a key step in the process, as the Hawks (unlike several other NPB teams) don’t make their players available for the NPB/MLB posting system. In discussing his plan to move to North American baseball, Senga said last year that “as a ballplayer, it’s essential to live my life always aiming higher,” and it can be argued that he more than achieved his goals in Japanese baseball. The right-hander’s resume includes five Japan Series titles with the Hawks, three NPB All-Star appearances, two placements on the Pacific League’s Best Nine team, and (outside of league play) an Olympic gold medal with Japan’s baseball team in 2021.
Between Senga’s potential and the overall demand for pitching this offseason, it isn’t surprising that multiple teams were monitoring his market. The Red Sox, Blue Jays, Dodgers, Giants, Mariners, and Padres were the other clubs known to have interest, and agent Joel Wolfe implied that as many as a dozen MLB teams had checked in on his client. Multiple five- and six-year offers were on the table for Senga, and while he elected for a five-year option from the Mets, the opt-out allows Senga the possibility of re-entering the market and possibly landing extra years and more money as he enters his age-33 season.
Heading into the offseason, the Mets faced the challenge of a large free agent class that included a star closer (Edwin Diaz) and most of the bullpen altogether, their starting center fielder (Brandon Nimmo), and the majority of their starting rotation in the form of Jacob deGrom, Taijuan Walker, and Chris Bassitt. However, with the Winter Meetings only just passed, New York has already addressed most of those holes by re-signing Diaz and Nimmo, and replacing that trio of starters with Justin Verlander, Jose Quintana, and now Senga. If that wasn’t enough, the Mets further bolstered the relief corps by signing David Robertson and acquiring Brooks Raley in a trade from the Rays.
There wasn’t any doubt that owner Steve Cohen was prepared to keep spending in order to keep his 101-game winning team in line to be World Series contenders. However, the spending spree has just continued to reach record levels, as Roster Resource projects the Mets for a 2023 payroll of roughly $334.68MM, and a luxury tax number of just over $349.5MM.
This not only dwarfs the $233MM Competitive Balance Tax threshold, it even soars past the fourth and highest ($293MM) tier of the CBT. The fourth tier was instituted in the last collective bargaining agreement as a further penalty for excessive spending, and was unofficially nicknamed the “Steve Cohen Tax” given how the owner made no secret of his intentions to heavily increase payroll. Since this is the Mets’ second consecutive year of tax overage, they’ll face a two-time repeater penalty, as well as a 90 percent overage tax on any dollar spent beyond the $233MM mark. This works out to around $104.85MM in tax penalty — according to Fangraphs, 11 teams currently aren’t slated to spend more than $104.85MM on their entire 2023 payrolls.
With the Mets already in uncharted financial territory, even more big moves could possibly be in store for Cohen and GM Billy Eppler. Since the luxury tax doesn’t appear to be any more than a speed bump to the Amazins’ plans, the club might continue to add high-priced talent, and not even bother with trying to get under the $293MM threshold for any kind of mild lessening of its CBT bill.
On paper, the bullpen looks like it could use some more reinforcement, and catcher also looks like a weaker position except top prospect Francisco Alvarez is expected to get more big league playing time in 2023. The rotation now looks completely set with Max Scherzer, Verlander, Senga, Quintana, and Carlos Carrasco making up the starting five. Speculatively, the Mets might even feel comfortable enough in their depth to shop one of their backup starters (i.e. David Peterson, Tylor Megill, Elieser Hernandez) in trade talks with a pitching-needy team. Or, given the older ages and some of the injury uncertainty surrounding the Mets’ starters, New York might also simply opt to retain as much pitching depth as possible.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images
Bk11235 2
Lets gooooooooooooooooo
Mi Casas es tu Casas
Bloom came so close he offered only $50 million less.
deweybelongsinthehall
There goes my theory…
giantsphan12
What theory Dewey?
deweybelongsinthehall
I recently spun that Boston was going to spend by signimg Senga and then go all out for Ohtani with the money not spent on Bogie going towards him
Fever Pitch Guy
Dewey – No offense, but that was kinda silly to think. It’s not the early 2000’s anymore.
deweybelongsinthehall
Fever. 2022 was the lowest live gate (excluding 2020 obviously) and NESN ratings tanked. This reminds me of 2015 and another bottom finish will get them to spend big. Maybe they re-sign Hanley and Panda ..
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – I’m well aware, this year’s attendance at Fenway was the lowest since 2000 (obviously not counting the 2020-2021 Covid years).
terrymesmer
Tomorrow’s ESPN headline: “Padres offered, like, way more money for Senga”
JockStrap
Thats why he offered more to the other guy lol
Lyman Bostock
Welcome to NY Kodai, capitol of the world!
Mattimeo09
Wrong capital buddy. No wonder the rest of the world thinks we’re a joke
Lyman Bostock
It’s an easy mistake to make. Doesn’t mean that people from all over the world don’t fight to come to NY, because they do. If you’re a fellow NY’er then just look around.
dpsmith22
That ain’t why…
PKCasimir
If you lived in the real world you would know that people are leaving New York in record numbers. They just can’t take living anymore in a cesspool of high crime, lawlessness, filth and high taxes. And you’re dumb enough to think you’re living in Paradise.
KingmanParker
Watch less Fox News, moron.
Braveslifer
@matt pezzella You make it out that those watching Fox News are bad people, all the while insulting someone. Be better.
luclusciano
PK – **correction** fyi, due to remote working possibilities people are leaving big cities around the US in record numbers.
william-2
I’m a New Yorker, and I can tell you that is has everything you ever want at any time. You just have to deal with it being an oppressively expensive, ugly, and mean-spirited place. Other than that…………..
Cg141
NYC is the best city in the country. Best nightlife, diverse cuisine, you can explore NYC for years and still not do it all. There are better cities in the world but not in the country. Flushing Queens alone is more interesting than most of the cities in the country. The crime per capita is lower in NYC than most US cities. There will always be crime in a city. Turn off fox for a day. I have been to every city that has a baseball team in the country for work. Personally, Atlanta felt the most unsafe.
golfernut
Rude
Sourhaze
One of the most prosperous and economically sound states in the US
You can go to the south tho they rank super low in education
User 401527550
I’m a Mets fan and would rather go to a Mets game I’m Atlanta a million times then stepping one foot in New York. It has nothing to do with Fox News but a reality of being to both cities hundreds of times.
Sourhaze
As a person who lives in GA?
Herschel walker was a candidate. NY would NEVER run someone like that. That’s lack of education, which is ranked one of the worst in the countries.
You obviously missed Atlanta the city because the crime in there is incredibly awful.
Coming to watch games in ATL is not the same as living in Atlanta. The north beats the south in every category except backwardness. 🙂
VonPurpleHayes
People leave big cities mostly because of cost of living, not the reasons your making up here. But keep on being you.
Fever Pitch Guy
Hey Matt – Did you happen to catch yesterday’s headlines in NYC?
“NYC Dem City Council Politicians sit silent as one of their activists spews anti-Asian hate speech”.
nypost.com/cover/december-10-2022/
NYC is the Hate Crimes Against Asians capital of the world, spin that buddy.
nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-rise-in-anti-asian-hat…
Senga will soon realize the money was worth it.
Fever Pitch Guy
William – I actually enjoyed the humor in your post.
But everything you ever want at any time?
I want safety, a feeling that I won’t get randomly attacked or thrown in front of a subway by some homeless guy with a rap sheet a mile long because of their catch and release policy.
NYC doesn’t have that, not since the Dems took over the city.
User 401527550
Are you saying if Lawrence Taylor ran in NY he wouldn’t have a chance? Famous people always have a chance no matter where they run. NY public schools are horrendous. Anyone with any money send their kids to private schools in any city.
Fever Pitch Guy
* Senga will soon realize the money WASN’T worth it (I need coffee)
Pachoo
This is just not true, more bogus Fox news type BS. New York city is not seeing some mass exodus of people, lol.
JoeBrady
If you lived in the real world you would know that people are leaving New York in record numbers.
===================================
I’m from The Bronx. I’ve heard or read this probably thousands of times. Usually followed by the complaint that housing costs are too high because it is too crowded,
FWIW, I understand that it is not everyone’s cup of tea. For me, I like having the pizza shop, church, bakery, diner, etc., within walking distance.
JoeBrady
You make it out that those watching Fox News are bad people,
===========================
I make it a point to read Fox as well as NYT, Bloomberg, etc. Anyone that doesn’t read both sides of a discussion, probably doesn’t understand the discussion.
dugmet
But try to go to a Mets game and the Guggenheim and eat slice of pizza at Coney Island
Hurricane Sandy
The only reason this would be true is because of the high Asian population in New York City. It’s easy to think you’re a holy roller when you’re surrounded by people that look and think exactly like you. New York City has its flaws, but the intolerance and ignorance of many people I’ve met throughout the rest of the country is plain to see for those who are from a place as diverse as New York. You actually learn respect and that people are pretty much the same no matter where they come from when you grow up in a big city.
GASoxFan
As a person who lives in GA?
Mike Itkis made and released a set tape while running for office.
Oh, wait, that was a NY politician.
Every state can have crazies get on a ballot.
I lived in metro Atlanta, everywhere from Fulton, to Dekalb, to Cobb (pre braves relo), to Fulton. Further out in Newton/Walton and Rockdale. Then Chatham and Effingham waaay far from ATL.
Some areas are worse crime than others. Back around 2018 or so one of the more affluent areas, buckhead, had problems because the police made it known they wouldn’t respond for shoplifting and non-personal property crimes due to call volume. It is an area they park Bentleys in the middle of the walking area of the mall. People were not amused and to this day are fighting to secede into their own town.
There’s good and bad everywhere. Yes, I had a survivor 1978 z28 attempted stolen less than 24 hours after bringing it home. They didn’t get away with the car, luckily.
But there were bright parts to being in the city. For me though? I want more space. City living isn’t for me. Any time you get density you get more visible crime because more people see it and more incidence in total due to more population.
I’ve lived in MA, VT, RI, CT, NJ, LA, GA. Stayed a while in AL. That’s discounting extended stays with family in other states. What I learned is different regions all have strengths and weaknesses over eachother. There’s no true winner that ‘beats’ someone.
deweybelongsinthehall
You picked a bad example. No LT could not win a meaningful election in NYC. He can’t run due to a felony conviction
Cg141
Not to mention you also have to test into a good public high school. Which is ridiculous. This is why so many ppl move to Westchester, Nassau, or further
AdamGe
What is astonishing is the ignorance of people when it comes to NYC. There are many red states that have higher per capita murder rates and crime rates.
The reality is that the pandemic saw crime rates increasing everywhere across the country.
Yes, NYC can be difficult to live but it is arguably still one of the greatest cities in the world when it comes to many other factors. There is a reason why competitive athletes want to come to NYC.
Bottom line is if you do not want to live here, don’t.
AdamGe
Compare that with Georgia who has Marjorie Taylor Greene the Queen of vile garbage spewing out of her mouth.
Sourhaze
Super non national enquirer source
Sourhaze
Been here 16 years. Georgia has gotten way worse with their backwardness.
Luckily it’s turning blue and I love it.
JoeBrady
You actually learn respect and that people are pretty much the same no matter where they come from when you grow up in a big city.
====================================
Growing up in NYC has some very underrated benefits. One of them is that you can go to other places, hear it’s a bad neighborhood, and not be overly concerned. Another, as you mention, is that I am comfortable in almost any surrounding.
Almost every Yankee game starts with the Dominican joint on 157th ($20 for a bucket of 6 Heinekens). Some start with a trip to Glackens (sp) on 149th, mostly black. Sometimes I will take the MN to Melrose and walk the half-mile of so.
Basically everyone in every one of these places are identical to everyone else.
JoeBrady
Plenty of private and parochial schools to attend.
Fever Pitch Guy
Adam – It’s not Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, etc that I’m reading about hate crimes against Asians on a daily basis. It’s NYC.
mustache101
I like trees and grass I don’t want a pizza shop as my niebor
MarkoRock68
Not just in the US it is happening all over the world, some people like the freedom being a digital nomad gives them.
GASoxFan
NYC isn’t even the ‘capital’ of New York state, let alone the US before the world.
Cg141
Atlanta is the worst city I have ever been to. Made Memphis look like Whoville
Kevin 23
marketwatch.com/story/no-more-new-york-people-are-…
What was that you were saying?
Kevin 23
Nonsense! NYC is a liberal shithole!
Blue Baron
@Mets6986: Look at Trump. Even he once had a chance. Not a clue, but a chance.
Blue Baron
@mustache101: At least kids in NY learn enough English to spell words like NEIGHBOR.
AdamGe
Remember you are reading the Post which is a NYC rag. What else do you expect?
william-2
You can have safety in NYC, but you have to keep your head on a swivel or just avoid some places. Much like anywhere really. Some people thrive there and love it. In my line of work you tend to observe and see things for what they are, underneath. It is a glittering glittering dark dark place if that makes any sense to anyone.
Blue Baron
@PKCasimir: What does any of that have to do with baseball or this signing?
Blue Baron
@Kevin 23: What does that have to do with baseball and this signing?
Mad Hatter
Why bring up Fox? Stick to baseball CG.
User 401527550
Who gave you the idea you can’t run for office with a felony conviction? The NY statue I just read says certain convictions bar you for ten years after conviction. Not a lifetime ban.
User 401527550
Then you haven’t talked to millions of NYers. The rich in NY get a quality eduction. The rest not so much.
curtiss
Definitely a republican. This the same things they say when running for offices in ny
JackStrawb
@Kevin 23 Memphis, Anchorage, and Lubbock Texas have the 1st, 2nd, and 4th highest crime rates among U.S. cities. 3rd? Albuquerque.
NYC is 67th in the US. You know you can look this up, yeah?
NPB58
Yeah, the truth hurts.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
NYC is one of.the safest cities in the world, if you are not.an idiot.
josehombros
That’s true … People that watch Fox ”News” are not necessarily bad people, but people that believe what they’re saying probably are.
Blue Baron
@Fever Pitch Guy: Republicans are virtually non-existent and Democrats have “run the city” at least since WWII. Even our Republican mayors like Bloomberg, LaGuardia, and Lindsay were Democrats running with GOP endorsement. Ed Koch even ran on the GOP ticket once. The issues you mention have nothing to do with political parties. But feel free to, you know, stay ignorant.
Mad Hatter
And Fox News viewership is higher than MSMBC and CNN combined.
LordD99
Can the Mets break a $400MM payroll before Sunday evening?!
dirkg
My favorite stat: so far, at a $350M luxury tax number, Cohen is spending 35% of what the 2022 Marlins are worth ($990 according to Forbes).
drasco036
Well the Mets blasted last my over/under 325 million.
What I find interesting is that their luxury tax penalty is going to be more than some teams entire payroll.
Enjoy it while it last New York, Cohen just ruined baseball, the owners will fight tooth and nail for a hard cap in the next cba.
BEATNGU
Trying to buy a chip I see.
Poster formerly known as . . .
Dang! If the Marlins are worth only $990, I’m gonna put in a bid.
DistinguishedGenitalman
And the players will fight tooth and nail to not have one. What’s your point?
Nearly every owner in baseball could do what Cohen is doing if they want to. They don’t. The only thing Cohen has ruined is the illusion that there are poor teams. There are no poor teams and a 300 million dollar payroll is entirely doable if you are willing to dip into your own pockets a bit.
AndyMeyer
How is a 300 million payroll “entirely doable” to teams in small markets with poor attendance and little revenue?
CleaverGreene
Every team is making their money off the streaming services and National TV stations (Fox, ESPN etc). Sucks for fans , but that is what they are doing.
The Pirates, Reds and Guardians are in very small TV markets but should be spending more than what they have.
drasco036
This is what happens when you don’t look at the big picture. Owners were mad last season when Cohen spent so much, he isn’t a “liked” owner among the rest of the owners across the league.
As much as I hate the fact the smaller market teams have the same voice as the teams that actually make the league money, they do. The majority of owners will stand firm against what Cohen has done, and the next cba will be an absolute dog fight, not against the players but against Cohen, with the players being the victims. Classic case of mommy and daddy fighting…
The Owners are going to stand firm with either wild punishments for exceeding the luxury tax or a salary cap, the players will push back but the owners will stand firm because Cohen has given them all the ammunition they need.
If you thought the “lock out” last season was bad, this is going to be so much worse.
Yankee Clipper
Drasc0036: I think you’re correct about the impending response to Cohen’s actions this offseason. However, they should be up in arms about what people like Nutting are doing too. The fact that they aren’t tell me their little boys’ club is doing well enough to ignore that stuff because they’re all profiting so much they don’t want to ruin it.
drasco036
Also true. The way the A’s have ran their franchise is a disgrace.
JoeBrady
DistinguishedGenitalman3 hours ago
Nearly every owner in baseball could do what Cohen is doing if they want to.
=================================
Please educate yourself. Read Forbes to see what the revenue and net income for every team is. At least half would go bankrupt spending like Cohen.
FWIW, I have no objection to Cohen’s spending. But only an idiot would think that the A’s could spend $350M.
VonPurpleHayes
@AndyMeyer It isn’t. I’m one that thinks the smaller market teams need to spend more, but what Cohen is doing is not feasible for a lot of owners.
phenomenalajs
They’ll only get it if it’s accompanied by a floor of $100M with guarantees that revenue sharing goes towards player payrolls.
phenomenalajs
Not when it worked. Outside of this past season, what they have achieved was incredible. Their focus is on a new stadium now, but that in and of itself will not solve their problems. I think that a salary floor is inevitable if there’s ever a real push for a cap.
Sunday Lasagna
@drasco36 how inconsiderate of Steve Cohen, spending whatever money it takes in the short run to win and emulating the Dodgers in building a farm system to win in the long run. That 2nd part might be ok, but spend to win now? How rude! Cohen should have manners and make sure he passes on enough free agents so that every team can have one……um, he didn’t ruin baseball, and Guggenheim didn’t ruin baseball when they spent after buying the Dodgers and Steinbrenner didn’t ruin baseball when he spent after buying the Yankees ..
SupremeZeus
Jerry Reinsdorf, Arte Moreno, Bob Castellini and Ken Kendrick all voted to keep Cohen out of the club because they knew what was coming. Moreno already pulled the ripcord and the other three are octogenarians (or months away) and on borrowed time. There is going to be generational change in MLB ownership in the next 5 years. Let’s see if they allow some off these young spendthrift billionaires in the club.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
The As could only spend that much if they borrow against their equity, not a foreign concept in the business world. Or if their billionaire owner invests more of his personal money to increase the value of his equity.
Fever Pitch Guy
Joe – I totally agree!!!
drasco036
Take off your blinders and pay attention to the business of baseball. Nice attempt of being condescending when you clearly haven’t a clue what the bigger picture looks like.
BaseballisLife
The Marlins were purchased several years back for $1.3 billion. Their value has not decreased.
With their new local TV deal and stadium naming rights plus the big increase in national TV money their revenue is up $100 million per year. A business’ value goes up when revenue goes up by 50%.
BaseballisLife
No hard cap coming unless the owners agree to open their books and let the players see exactly what the team’s revenue is and what they spend. Hades will freeze over before the owners do that.
BaseballisLife
I will pitch in and be your local rep since I live in S FL.
BaseballisLife
Cohen isn’t liked by other owners because he is showing just how much money the teams are making and how much the big market teams can spend and be profitable.
He, and the small market Padres’ Seidler, let the cat out of the bag and now the MLBPA has ammunition to go after the CBT threshold.
Now the union will be able to say very successfully that if a small market team can maintain a $230 million payroll and a large market can go $350 million, that a CBT threshold starting at $300 million for 2026 is entirely reasonable.
BaseballisLife
Joe Brady, the A’s could be profitable while spending $140-$150 million. Instead they spent $60 million last season and are on track to spend the same this upcoming season.
Sunday Lasagna
@drascoo36 enlighten me on this bigger picture. With my blinders on I can only see an industry that has an extreme barrier to entry and is profitable from those allowed to enter, with the vast majority of those profits coming from shared revenue and broadcast deals. The facilities are a combination of privately owned/publicly financed, there are office and facility employees and the players are unionized professionals. Unlike most industries, the business owners are profitable and the union employees are very well compensated. Those union employees have a collective bargaining agreement with MLB and we ever so often go through lockouts or strikes in order for the sides to agree on moving forward. There is a draft for US players and international players are free agents but MLB teams have limited funds to sign them. These players stay with their team through six years of servitude while getting either agreed to or arbitration decided salaries as they meet service times thresholds. After six years of major league service they can become free agents and as free agents, they enjoy a free market where team owners are allowed to give them as much money as it takes to get them signed. To keep owners from spending too much there is a penalty system in which they must pay a tax into shared revenue for all teams. Then there are the fans, these fans pay exorbitant amounts for attending a game, parking and food. It’s widely assumed that these costs are so high to pay player salaries, but that is not true, the revenues stated above more than cover that, these costs are so high because people are willing to pay them. Simple supply and demand. These fans also have interesting preconceived rivalry notions, like the Angels, White Sox and Mets must play 2nd fiddle to the Dodgers, Cubs and Yankees or the natural order of things will be disrupted, and also have a false thought in small markets that their team cannot compete. The Rays do just fine in their tiny market as analytics leaders, the Brewers do just fine in a mid market by making well timed moves, the Braves do just fine in a mid/top tier market because they scout, draft, sign, teach and lock up players at great prices as good as any team in Baseball (Astros a close 2nd) and the Dodgers do just fine in a huge market because they scout and sign as well as spend serious payroll. Any of these plans is a good business plan if it is executed well. So if the Pirates want to put revenue sharing and broadcast money in their pockets they don’t have to fail on the field, they just have to get better at emulating the Rays (and not getting fleeced by them in trades) and if Steve Cohen wants to emulate thw Dodgers long term but also win right now by spending, so be it, he can. I will take my blinders off now, please enlighten me.
BaseballisLife
Its only feasible for a handful of teams. Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, Red Sox, Phillies, Mets.
Another 7-8 teams like the Braves, Blue Jays, Astros and Rangers could come in at $250 million while being comfortably in the black.
The lowest revenue teams could field a $150 million team and be right around breakeven.
BaseballisLife
MLB admitted to $11 billion in revenue. I think its higher, but let’s go with what Manfred said they made.
That is a median revenue of $367 million per team.
From the Jays and Braves, who are owned by a publicly traded company and have to open their books, all other expenses beyond what is included in CBT calculations comes to between $96 and $108 million.
So that means that the Median payroll could be $260 million and the teams would still be profitable.
The A’s were removed from being a recipient of revenue sharing, meaning their revenue over the previous 3 seasons was not in the bottom 7.
Manfred said that all teams were projected to be over $250 million in revenue in 2022. Marlins, Rays, Guardians, and Pirates are the ones that are recipients of revenue sharing and probably in that neighborhood in revenue.
Those bottom feeders in revenue can spend $150 million comfortably.
Until all the owners are as forthcoming as the publicly traded teams are forced to be, no cap is possible.
bucsfan0004
Bottom line Bob hopes so.
Jimbo_Jones
Good pick up. I don’t care about the money it’s not mine. Chris Bassett…
Samuel
OK, Mets moved.
Padres turn again,
Jwap
What?
GASoxFan
This Mets offseason spend wise reminds me of just after guggenheim bought into the LAD and started to buy players via taking on bad deals – such as absorbing the red sox contract to grab the likes of Adrian, but taking nominally useful bits mixed with underwater deals.
That led to the CBT as we see it after a couple seasons of unprecedented at the time spending.
So, where does mlb go from here? Ultimately players need to want to go to the Mets, that’s part of it. But, with deep enough pockets, eventually they WILL get guys to take their money.
So what do you do beyond what has been done that the MLBPA can’t take issue with? Is there a level of spending that the comissioners office can refuse to approve contracts? Like they announced they would’ve voided SD with Judge? Do you impose a sanction for actions that harm the integrity of the game, such as stripping all draft picks for a year?
Curious on thoughts. I certainly have no answer, but, there are a handful of franchises, not just the NYM, at issue here, and, they’re all going to be curious how this plays out to see if they too can push the envelope.
Baseball is more entertaining when you don’t just have 6 or 8 LOADED teams and 2 dozen or so AAA or borderline AAAA ones.
Jimbo_Jones
The 2022 playoffs were pretty exciting IMO sooo baseball sucks?
Boxscore
It’s called free enterprise. Don’t like it? Move to North Korea!
dpsmith22
No, it shines another light on the FACT that a cap is needed. Baseball is blind to the dollar.
stymeedone
Why does it have to be North Korea? Aren’t there other options?
CleaverGreene
Cuba
GASoxFan
@Boxscore – if it WAS free enterprise, there wouldn’t be an anti-trust exemption. So let’s not get into economic theory and regulation philosophies
CarverAndrews
Actually, when one has something of a monopoly (and baseball is very much along that line), it is then a protected industry…not free market capitalism.
We need to evaluate things based upon facts and reality as opposed to identity and knee-jerk assumptions. If we start there, we might have a chance to realize that our interests are much more closely aligned than most folks think in this day and age.
dirkg
@GASox, I get your points for sure. I’m not sure how old you are, but I’m in my 40s and have seen my fair share of ownership groups pass through MLB and other than probably the 1997 Marlins, I have yet to see a franchise buy a championship. The NBA can see a Miami Heat super team created and wreak havoc on the league for years; there are only 5 players on the court at a time. Baseball is too diversified of a game and you truly need the best 40 players, across the board, to win a WS.
Anchored by 40 year olds Max and JV, the Mets need to win *right now*. Their window is very small. After the top 2, Quintana and Carrasco have their question marks. Senga has never thrown an MLB pitch. Is Cahna-Nimmo-Marte the all star OF the team needs? Vogelbach – *that’s* your DH?
Clearly they’re a good, if not great team. But they have holes. And no amount of money is going to fill those holes. It’s not feasible. They won their division this past season and then got thumped by the Padres in the Wild Card. Baseball is fun because anything can happen in the playoffs – so I don’t think anything “needs to happen” to curtail Cohens spending – we’ll find out soon enough if the baseball Gods approve.
whocaresaboutRBI
They didn’t win their division, they got walked down lol
DistinguishedGenitalman
What’s so harmful that the Mets are doing? What’s so bad about players getting paid. 90 percent of the owners in baseball are multi billionaires and could do exactly what the Mets are doing if they were willing to dip into their own pockets. They’re not willing to do that. Why should we punish the owners who are?
GASoxFan
Baseball is better with more teams, more cities. Or should we contract to only letting fans in 10 markets have a ball club to root for? Let that happen and kill the last real anti-trust exemption in major pro sports. Be done with it. Then we get a rival league with 60 major teams roughly equal across the US, and, people can watch the same 6 or 10 teams left in mlb play each other 30 times each.
I’m a fan of a club in one of the top markets with one of the higher valuations.
I still realize that no multi-billionaire is going to pay $5 Billion for the KC Royals or the Pittsburgh Pirates, have a cash flow of maybe $350million in a championship series year, and plunk down $475million in payroll and taxes. Never happening.
Maybe some teams under spend, it’s true. But that doesn’t mean you have blank slates that destroy the game on the top end.
This one belongs to the Reds
Only 10 or so markets consistently have a chance to win now. The rest are just a crapshoot if it happens to come together one season before they have to trade or lose their star players they will not be able to afford. They expanded the playoffs to try to hide that fact but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t still exist.
The sport is dying outside the big cities but some of you are too narrow minded to realize what happens outside your little bubble.
dirkg
2021 population…
Cleveland 368k
Pittsburgh 301k
St Louis 293k
Seattle 734k
Houston 2.3M
It’s all how you run your organization and what you do with your revenue.
I’d argue St Louis is the biggest MLB city (if you’ve been there you know what I mean) and it has one of the smallest populations. It’s far from a big city.
Baseball is not perfect, but the numbers show it’s thriving and this year was recognized as one of the fastest growing brands in the US.
Pachoo
You look at metropolitan area population, not city. Each city is zoned differently so city population doesn’t tell you anything useful.
New York City easily has the most populous metro area in the country.
luclusciano
Pretty sure by population – NJ is the most populous on and “area” basis, and they do t even have a major league team.
JoeBrady
You look at metropolitan area population, not city.
=================================
That works for TV, but not attendance. The MMA for NYC is beyond useless. Pike Count, PA is in the NYC MMA and the NY teams might not sell a single ticket to anyone there.
mustache101
Their net worth is not what they have in capital… my house is worth 300k therefore I am…. Do I actually have 300k in cash laying Around??? No I don’t…
MarkoRock68
Well said GA . Just because owners may be billionaires they are not going to buy a team just to loose 100-200 million a year. There are only a handful of teams in MLB that can support a 350m payroll. .
Sunday Lasagna
@dirkg I have been to St Louis and have gone to a dozen or so games there, and you are 100% correct. MLB city for sure, as good of a fan base as there is.
Cg141
Salary floor. Players would love to sign with the Rays and Marlins. But they don’t pay lol.
adolf marsilio
TO MANY VARIABLE… you can’t buy it!
Ma4170
I’m just not getting the severe need for change. Agents and players union are forcing these ridiculously overpaid contracts. Plenty of teams could afford Verlander at 2-86, just chose not to. Same w Nimmo at 8-161, and definitely senga at 5-75. I’d say the degrom turner and bogaerts deals are more obscene. every small market team can keep saying they can’t afford FA, but it won’t make it true. They choose not to. Zero reason the guardians only overpaid for bell at 2-33 and that’s it. Orioles haven’t done any spending. Cohen should be applauded for spending to try and win in the next two years… because that’s all he’s doing. And we know it won’t guarantee anything anyway – seen it w the yanks and dodgers for years.
Samuel
Ma4170;
Ruining a business is not a one year thing. Organizations have short-term, intermediate-term, and long-term business plans.
MLB is a business. It’s not rotisserie league where every year each “owner” gets the same amount of funny money to spend, a draft is held for all players…and the players and their statistics must go there.
Ma4170
Yes, understood, but people keep acting like this is some egregious act that nobody else could come close to replicating. Every team can spend, and many are not that should be if their goal is to improve the team and win. If their strategic objective isn’t to win, they shouldn’t own a baseball team. And yes, it’s really that simple. There are better ways to make profit, so they should reinvest elsewhere. Cohen is the type of owner fans should want.
This one belongs to the Reds
Revenue streams are not the same for every baseball team, especially for things like local TV contracts, and not all fans realize that. There are reasons teams choose not to spend and the biggest is they are not going to ensue operating losses. These guys didn’t get to be billionaires by losing money on their businesses.
Yankee Clipper
Ma4170: This is directly from BRef and 2018, after which it went UP!
“ In Major League Baseball, 48% of local revenues are subject to revenue sharing and are distributed equally among all 30 teams, with each team receiving 3.3% of the total sum generated. As a result, in 2018, each team received $118 million from this pot. Teams also receive a share of national revenues, which were estimated to be $91 million per team, also in 2018.”
That’s over $200MM, per team from revenues. So, small market teams are getting $200MM from large markets and the small market advocates say they can’t afford to be competitive?! That’s not including the other revenue generated by these teams. It’s all excuse-making. The owners know they have the money, so do the players, which is why they won’t allow a cap.
Ma4170
Then they can’t complain when other owners are willing to absorb short-term losses. Not to sound cold, but if we’re going to take a real business perspective, then the team should be sold to someone who’s willing to take losses, at least for a short period. Revenue sharing helps, draft pick comp weighted to help them helps too, but it will never be fully equal. But nobody can deny there are many smaller market or medium market teams not spending near what they should, and owners have pocketed profits for years. Not who should be running a baseball franchise – can’t get mad at the dodgers, mets, yanks, padres of the world. Texas decided to recently, which means they had the means all the way along. Not seeing how we can deny that too many teams don’t spend on players as they should, which is the real issue. Nobody expects the Guardians to have a 300M payroll, but they should have one well over 100M, and the fact they’re not even close is honestly more of a travesty.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I am willing to concede that teams have plenty of other expenses, but no excuse for any team opposing a salary floor of 100 million over an averaged two year period.
Yankee Clipper
That’s precisely why I’m so against it. It’s such a one-sided argument that addresses only a partial issue! It only serves to create more problems via more restrictions.
Plus, as written in the CBS article and white paper that I’ve attached in separate comments, the cap will not help parity, and MLB has the most parity of any sport, so a cap will fix exactly none of the problems that people are complaining about! Why? Because they’re complaining about terrible owners who won’t spend the boatloads of money they already have.
This one belongs to the Reds
As I have pointed out numerous times before, there is more to running a baseball team than player salaries. Small market teams tend to place more emphasis on scouting and player development ESPECIALLY since they can’t go out and buy a team like the Yankees and Mets of the world. I know the Reds have a baseball academy in the Dominican that they run and Jose Rijo had a part in establishing that. You may remember him, A’s fans.
I am the first to criticize Bob C and Krall for how they run the Reds team. Then again when guys are expecting 20 million a year contracts and your team never had a payroll north of 160 million, it’s hard to compete in that market. Even bullpen guys are getting 10 million plus and not even closers.
On a side note, I expect a lot of these guys expecting those kind of deals will be surprised when they have to settle for a one year deal at a lot less before spring training because the big boys aren’t spending anymore, so there may be some deals to be done then by the rest of the league.
Ma4170
Absolutely… it’s just the salaries get most of the attention. And at least the reds have been willing to go to 160m when they thought they could compete
Ma4170
Clip- funny thing is, if degrom Bassitt and Walker hadn’t opted out, that was 58M Mets would’ve been committed to. All they did was match that w JV and senga and then add 12m w Quintana (which I wouldn’t have). Then they just re-signed Nimmo and Diaz to what the market unfortunately is. That’s all the extra money is, nothing more than that. But it’s this big story because they had to replace those guys who opted out and re-sign the ones they wanted.
JoeBrady
The owners know they have the money,
===================================
No, they don’t. 17 teams have less than $300M in revenue.
Just look at Atlanta, since those are public records. According to Forbes, the Braves had $443M in revenue and $83M in operating revenue. Meaning they had $360M in operating expense, which does not include depreciation and Interest.
Explain how a team with less than $300M in revenues can afford $360M in operating expenses, along with depreciation & interest?
Yankee Clipper
The $443MM is their own team revenue?
Ma4170
Assuming there’s not a lot of creative accounting happening here, not every team will have 360M in OpEx. Braves had 183M payroll, so about half was player salaries. I’m also assuming Alex A and the staff make considerably more than most small market exec staffs. Also, who knows how much they put into advertising and such, but I’d assume more than smaller markets. So if you take those things into account, a small market team should comfortably be able to operate in a 100-150M space for player salaries.
GASoxFan
@Yankee Clipper – the $443m was the total of all money that came to the braves regardless of source.
It includes their real-estate development surrounding the ballpark, the apartment rent, the store rent, parking receipts, money from their share of mlb revenue… all the cash that came into the organization that year.
Yankee Clipper
These seem to co trading the notion that the Braves cannot afford this, Joe. Now, I could be misreading this, but it doesn’t appear that it translates as directly as above. As noted in the first article there are several incredible tax loopholes for these businesses (of course) which don’t show up in these numbers.
bleachernation.com/cubs/2022/02/25/the-atlanta-bra…
And this second Forbes article expands in this and cites the despite their current payroll, they’re still projected over a $100MM profit. It also has their revenue at closer to $600MM. Their profits went up despite adding to payroll.
forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2022/08/05/atlanta-bra…
all in the suit that you wear
Senga has thrown 131, 111 and 148 innings the last 3 years. How many innings could he be expected to pitch this year? Isn’t he switching from 5 days rest between starts in Japan to 4 days rest here? If he pitches in the World Baseball Classic in March, that will affect his season too. Maybe the Mets will slot him as the 5th starter so he gets more rest. It sure will be interesting to watch.
Ma4170
Maybe they’re just anticipating 150IP? 25-30 starts 5-6IP average? I think the Quintana signing shows they’re preparing for injuries up and down the staff at some point. Depth is key
all in the suit that you wear
Yeah and maybe he won’t pitch in the WBC.
Ma4170
Oh crap, I forgot about the WBC
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
MLBTR basically wrote this contract.
NYMetsFanatic
Fantastic. All we need now are a few pen guys and a Trey Mancini utility type with a decent bat and we’re looking darn good for 2023.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
The same could be said for Texas, though they are obviously not quite there. Still, a Pythagorean win loss of 77-85 (15-35 in 1 run games) and these additions can help get them into wild card contention.
GeoEng88
They still won’t make the playoffs
Maybe Next Year
And the Angels will make the playoffs. Right?
king beas
People really act like they didn’t win 101 games last year
Maybe Next Year
King
I’m almost positive Geo is being sarcastic. I’m 99.9% sure of it.
Blue Dude
All Time Chokers they need fresh blood when they looked stale when something happened ,,,
AndyMeyer
People also remember a 101 win team that choked away the division and lost in the wild card round
phenomenalajs
As a Mets’ fan, I’d give Atlanta credit where it’s due. The Mets were winning series consistently all season and had an insane record when they scored 4 or more runs (only 5-10 losses, I believe), but Atlanta went on an insane tear from June onward. The Phillies kept pace as best as they could, snuck into the last wildcard sport and took the pennant before falling in the WS. If any of those three land in third place this season yet still makes the playoffs, it could take the same route and even win the WS.
Unless Steve’s directly using my money, I don’t care how much he spends. I want to see another championship or at least another WS appearance faster than the current pattern during my lifetime. I was born the day the Mets lost the 1973 World Series to Reggie Jackson’s Oakland A’s. They made the WS 13 years later and won. They next made it 14 years after that and lost. They followed that with an appearance 15 years after that and lost again. Following the current pattern, they wouldn’t get back there under 2031. I sure hope they beat that pace.
Samuel
phenomenalajs;
“The best-laid plans of mice and men often go astray.”
Robert Burns
Rusteeze
Go ahead & cry
Bk11235 2
Not to bright are ya?
DaOldDerbyBastard
Too
Jimbo_Jones
Too funny
Paleobros
Too
worthington
Will be fun watching them crash and burn.
xXTheFETTXx
With that pitching? If they don’t make the playoffs, they better of had three blown elbows in that rotation. I mean that starting 3 should walk in to the playoffs barring a couple of injuries.
Scrambley
“they better of had”… Lord Almighty, that hurts to read. Do you know what the word “of” means?
xXTheFETTXx
Why do you care?
Bk11235 2
Funniest thing i read today! Now only we make the playoffs but we win the division
vincent k. mcmahon
Wow.
PinstripedPride
Holy smokes. Well kudos to Cohen, he’s not afraid to spend money AT ALL.
OK Cashman, time to close the deal with Rodon. Chop chop.
Blue Dude
Correa 🙂 Evil Empire needs a Evil Player
PinstripedPride
We’re not signing Correa, I can almost guarantee that. First, the team still needs a left fielder and a starting pitcher. They cost money that a Correa contract would completely soak up. Second, nobody in the fan base has forgotten how CC was one of the ringleaders in the cheating scandal. They would hate his guts and the team chemistry itself would suffer.
No, it’s best to look elsewhere
Hello, Newman
Just like in Minny, I don’t think they would hate Correa. Hopefull it’s time for the rest of the baseball world to get on board towards forgiveness. He’s a great player who made a groupthink horrible decision.
VonPurpleHayes
Correa and the Yanks is destiny. You become what you hate. The Mets are the late 90s Yankees without the chips (so far). The Yankees must become the 2017 Astros. It’s fate.
WAR overrated... shows how bad is the replacement? Assigned by?
We must not forget his comment about Derek Jeter – rightly so or not. CC has poor ethics and respect for baseball and for members of the hall of fame, with numbers in the regular season and post season that CC will never have. CC doesn’t have the leadership and respect that Jeter had playing baseball on and off the field. CC would never make a team play like Jeter did on game 3 ALCS 2001.
Hello, Newman
I honestly do not know what he said about Jeter. Is it Michael Jordan-Dennis Rodman level? Muhammad Ali-Sugar Ray Robinson level, or Joe Namath-Randy Moss? Many of the greats did it and will only doing it, because it’s entertainment.
VonPurpleHayes
Wow. What a rotation! 5 year 75M isn’t bad on the surface, but on top of the Mets current financial state, I think it’s pretty nuts. Pretty sure they’ll have to let Alonso and McNeil walk down the road to get under the tax, but in the mean time…best rotation in baseball by far. Cohen is a mad man. Congrats Mets fans.
LFGMets (Metsin7)
@VonPurpleHayes the Mets dont even have a top 10 rotation, let alone the best. The Astros, Dodgers, Padres, and Yankees all have better rotations than the Mets by far. You can make a case that Toronto, Gaurdians, Phillies, Diamondbacks, Mariners and Braves all have better rotations than the Mets
VonPurpleHayes
I can’t think of a better 1-3 in baseball. Senga is a bit of a gamble, but I’ve watched him for a few years, and the ceiling is high. He has ace potential, bur of course it’s a risk.
#1WhiteSoxFan
Best 1-3 is Cease, Lynn, Kopech
deweybelongsinthehall
For 2023, I’d take the Mets.
Chris Koch
Best is Burnes, Woodruff and Peralta on Milwaukee.
3Men&ABibee
Dude. I watch lots of NPB. He could be a solid mid rotation piece but in not way is he considered an ace over here. Not being a homer but he is not Yamamoto or even Sasaki. You truly don’t watch NPB. Now. , he could prove to overplay his potential but he is not in same class as Otani over here… Just like Yoshida who just signed with BOS in relation to Suzuki last year.
VonPurpleHayes
No one said he was Ohtani.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Kershaw is pretty good too, along with Urias/Buehler/Gonosolin
3Men&ABibee
You said ace potential. Otani is one. Watch some NPB and quit sprouting stuff you know nothing about. It makes you look uneducated or just plain dumb.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Who are you talking about?
VonPurpleHayes
I watch NPB. Senga is an ace there and has potential to be a 1-2 type in the US. What are you watching? I don’t think he will ever be a Cy Young or anything, but the guy has nasty stuff and hits 99mph consistently.
3Men&ABibee
I will officially never talk to you again. You have no idea what you talking about. He is an ace in a much inferior league and he is not a 1 in any way here. You must just turn NPB on in the background. If Kodai is an ace over here, Yamamoto is the next Walter Johnson over here. The gap between him and Kodai is vast.. #1? Hahaha.
3Men&ABibee
No one is crapping over him. You sound like a Mets apologist. Its honesty. He is a solid mid rotation piece but he is not a number 1 over here; not close. Their is only guy who could be a number here playing in Japan and one who could in Sasaki. Be real.
User 401527550
He had a 1.94 era in the NPB last year. Your scouting skills are saying there is a lot better pitchers in the NPB? I guess the real major league scouts know nothing.
DarkSide830
Nah, they are better than ag least TOR, CLE, ATL, and NYY off this list alone.
Ma4170
That’s just not true that those staffs are better
seamaholic 2
Umm …. two first ballot Hall of Famers still (amazingly) in their primes, the best pitcher in Japan, and two mid rotation stalwarts. If it stays healthy, yeah, it’s the best rotation in the NL at least. I wouldn’t argue if you said all of baseball. It’s miles better than Yankees.
avenger65
Fried, Wright, Strider, Morton.
emac22
Prime doesn’t mean what you think it does.
3Men&ABibee
He is not the best pitcher in Japan. Do you watch the NPB? Yeah. You’re drunk
GASoxFan
Pitchers aren’t sides of beef. The ones that are aged the most, and then cost the most, aren’t ‘prime’…. just finally FAs and cost the most.
In fact, a younger version of those same two ‘elder statesmen’ shall we call them would out duel them in a minute.
VonPurpleHayes
Forest City, he is certainly a top 5 pitcher in NPB. You’re underselling him quite a bit. He wanted to post 3 years ago, but wasn’t allowed to until now.
3Men&ABibee
He “might” be a top 5 pitcher but the best pitcher in NPB is Yamamoto and Senga is nowhere near close to him. Yanagi and Sasaki are better (Sasaki pure potential)-Their people who say they take Miyagi or Sugano. To me he is closer to Usasawa or Ito talent but in starter form. People in here acting like he is a 1 or 2 when he is a 3 or 4 type with scattered games that could look like a 1. He might even have early run at first but when they catch up with him, he is a more a 4 than 1.
VonPurpleHayes
I see him as having ace-like potential on certain ckubs. I’m not talking deGrom or Scherzer here. On the Mets for example, I slot him in at #3. The guy has tricky stuff, high velocity, but gives up a ton of walks. Just because there are better pitchers in Japan doesn’t mean Senga isn’t good. His stuff will play here.I don’t know why you’re crapping all over him.
Ma4170
Is it not obvious that as it stands now, Fried and wright are far less than verlander and scherzer? Strider had a good rookie season, let’s see if he keeps it up. I could see high K but not near what he did w era and whip this year. Senga could be just as good. Morton did not have a good year so could finally be declining somewhat. I admittedly don’t love Carrasco, but he may not be that far below Morton now.
3Men&ABibee
You are way overvaluing him. He is not an ace or close. Competition does matter. I love Kodai personally but he is mid rotation piece. His stuff doesn’t play #1. This is not NPB. This is mlb. He might throw 99 but his control is suspect and it doesn’t have extraordinary movement. Every guy in the bullpen throws 99 now. That’s not a auto success as it was before. His secondary stuff is not ++. I watched him pitch a lot and he is not elite. I hope he does great so others will come over and it’s good for the game but let’s be real. He is not even Tanaka in his prime good. Mets got a depth starter piece and nothing more.
Ma4170
I could say the same about strider though… good stuff, but control is suspect. We’ll see how it plays out, and maybe he’s just a solid 3, like bassitt turned out to be. But the top two in each staff are not as close as some of the posters are making it. Just look at last year’s numbers for scherzer and verlander vs. fried and wright for the most recent comparison.
phenomenalajs
I’ll admit I don’t watch NPB, but I think the reason he has chosen to sign with the Mets even if could have gotten a better contract elsewhere is because he can learn from two future Hall of Famers in Scherzer and Verlander. Scherzer is also an excellent teacher who acts as an assistant pitching coach. Senga’s play could be elevated by following them in the rotation. As for not even being close to Ohtani, that’s a given and I’m sure Ohtani is on the Mets’ radar for 2024. Carrasco will be a free agent and Scherzer and Verlander will be in their walk years. Vogelbach and Ruf will be gone by then if not sooner, so Ohtani will have the DH position as well.
User 401527550
What about them? Did any of them have better years then Verlander or Scherzer? Nope
padam
@LFG – gotta disagree, with the exception of the Astros. Even losing JV they still have a solid top 5.
Quintana and Carrasco as the 4/5 and Peterson/Megill as BUs isn’t terrible. Top 3 though has to arguably be the best.
VonPurpleHayes
@padam Apologies to the Astros. Their rotation is up there as well.
stubby66
Hate to say it but you guys also forgot the Brewers rotation of Burnes, Woodruff, Peralta, Ashby, Houser and Lauer. These guys can take on any pitching staff.
Blue Dude
Problem is they keep on trading them away
DaOldDerbyBastard
No way. Negativity about the Mets from you? That’s all you post. Worst person on this site.
Spaced-Cowboy
Oooh a piece of candy…… Mets have a lot of “ifs” with their starting rotation. Best in Japan means squat if you melt under those lights. Being mentally tough and New York tough is different. Did everyone forget the Rays? I’d argue the Stros still have a better rotation. Dodgers, Yankees, Cleveland have a better rotation. I’d even give Atlanta and Toronto the edge. The Mets fall in line with Seattle, ChiSox, and San Diego. No slouch, but I’d rather Milwaukee’s 1-2 if you want to tout your oldies. Age will factor in eventually; deteriorated stats to be expected.
3Men&ABibee
He is not the best in Japan. Dude don’t watch NPB
Blue Dude
Every Teams has holes its just who stays healthy and who gets hot in the playoffs
metslvt17
You’re insane if you believe this. VERLANDER, SCHERZER, SENGA, QUINTANA, is a top 5 rotation if not top 3 in all of baseball right now.
Chris Koch
That’s a Lot of belief in Senga. Career 3.4BB/9 and 6.5 hits per 9. This is just below Freddy Peralta type line while in MLB. If you believe facing AAAA level players will translate to Freddy Peralta numbers you’re kidding yourself. 3.4BBs will jump to 4 easy. 6.4 hits will jump at least to 7.5. Looking around what you should expect from the get go. Michael Lorenzen last year. Maybe Senga keeps the HRs down a little so a little better. But you get the idea what the increase in hits and walks while striking out fewer will mean. Being in the pitcher’s ballparks that are the NL East the HR rate may not increase so much.
Ma4170
@chris koch – But we just don’t know how the numbers will change. Tanaka first year in MLB gave up an extra hit per game like you said, but BB stayed the same and K jumped 1.5 per game! Kuroda’s numbers from last year in Japan to first year in MLB were almost identical. So who knows. As a Met fan, I agree, I’m not counting on an ace, but hoping we’ll get around Bassitt level production (3.42/1.15), which would account for your extra run per game and an extra .5 in both hits and bb per 9. I’d take it.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Yankees? Outside of Gerrit Cole who do they have?
PinstripedPride
Nestor Cortes and a healthy Luis Severino. Hopefully we nab Rodon to plug into the #2 spot
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Severino is good but never healthy. Cortes had a great last season.
Ma4170
If healthy, that’s a strong top 3 though. Plus if they sign rodon, that’s just dangerous. He’s filthy.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
They’ll let Alonso walk . . . to the ATM
VonPurpleHayes
Unless the tax penalty lightens up, even Cohen is not going to pay 90% in taxes every year. As things stand, he’ll have to reset in 3 years, and in order to do that, I don’t see how he can extend McNeil and Alonso. Perhaps one of them. But to be honest, I think it’s a great way to maintain a winning team. Fully expect them to land Ohtani in 2024.
Ma4170
Agree Von… he’s counting the days til next offseason when cano canha Escobar Carrasco are all off the books, and i bet he’s praying max opts out (wouldn’t count on that)
laswagn
Kind of hard to sign Ohtani in ’24 when the Dodgers are going to sign him in December ’23
VonPurpleHayes
To your point Dodgers could be reseting for the same exact reason.
Yankee Clipper
Hard to sign in him December of ‘23 when the Yankees are going to acquire him via trade and extend him in July of ‘23.
deweybelongsinthehall
You never know because the books aren’t ever opened. No one knows the true impact of their SNY ownership and how valuable merchandising really is. I’ve thought that Cohen was smart enough to make his money, he’ll keep it to. Now I see it’s a balance and he enjoys seeing his name every day in the paper, which is good for the team. Sort of like what George did once he bought the Yankees.
Blue Dude
Otani will not be a Met… Book it……. Yanke or Dodgers
DistinguishedGenitalman
They dump 86 million dollars off the payroll in two years. They’ll have no problem keeping Alonso.
Also, everyone keeps saying “even Cohen can’t stomach this” or “even Cohen can’t spend that”. Are you sure? He’s shown zero evidence that he cares about the luxury tax at all.
william-2
Ohtani in that joke of a Yankee stadium would be amazing to see. He would add another 10 home runs minimum just off pop ups to right field.
Yankee Clipper
William: If he played every single game in that “joke of a stadium” called Yankee Stadium this year Ohtani would’ve {LOST 7 HRs off his total} bringing it to 31, per Statcast.
Perhaps you aren’t as informed about the NYY stadium dimensions?
baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/shohei-ohtani…
User 401527550
Why would Ohtank take an extension from anyone? He would make the open market go insane with offers.
GASoxFan
One reason I dislike prognostications about ‘this guy hits xyz in our ballpark instead’ and stadium dimensions is its overly simplistic.
When new yankee stadium was built, the curvature and height of the OF walls influence the rate at which fly balls become HRs. Back when it first opened and there was an uptick in the rate baseballs were flying out studies were done.
Just because the field dimensions overlay says yes, a ball hit xyz ft in xyz direction is within a wall or outside it, what it fails to account for is what the difference in air temp, humidity, prevailing wind, stadium construction nuances, those are all different from park to park at a given time of year.
So, the same contact, launch angle, speed in a hit on April 1st at every ballpark will land somewhere different most every time.
That’s what those spray charts miss. Even the advanced ones that try to correct, can’t.
william-2
I played games there.so I know first-hand the dimensions. How many home runs did stat cast say he would have gained? Just went on stat cast too, and he gains 6 to left, and 6 to right on distance overlaps not counting conditions which are slightly harder at Anaheim than they are at Yankee Stadium. He loses the ones you claim in left center, and center. So your contention without conditions, or any change whatsoever within a human being, is he only gains 5, not 10? Ok, if he doesn’t try whatsoever to pull even a little more than he only gains 5. If he tries at all to play to his home stadium (as most do), then what, maybe about 10? Ok.
Yankee Clipper
He doesn’t gain any. If he played every single game, all 162, in Yankee Stadium he loses 7. It’s negative value.
Just because the corners are smaller, the stadium plays neutral because the lower alleys are so big.
You cannot just eyeball it and then suggest that he would simply adapt. Real life doesn’t work that way. Stats aren’t even perfect but at least it shows where he actually hit the ball, man. You’re simply guessing and adding numbers arbitrarily to make your point stand.
Pachoo
It goes up to 110% for the Mets next year since they will be a 3rd time offender. With the same payroll, they will pay an additional $25M in luxury tax next year.
luclusciano
Agreed – he has billions and billions of dollars, and will put asses in seats meaning he will get a huge ROI. Cohen wants to win
Chris Koch
Man, I checked that link then searched Judge. Detroit reduces HRs like 20-25pct! Cincy and Colorado are where power hitting 1yr FAs need to go. Surprised to see LA with increasing HRs expected. I thought LA and SF(which is) were HR suppressing stadiums.
william-2
It shows the relative distances of his hits. The ones I picked are farther than the dimensions for the exact locations at Yankee stadium. The balls he hit travelled farther than the walls that exist. 6 to left leave Yankee stadium with its dimensions. 6 to right leave Yankee stadium with its dimensions. Between left center and center he loses 7 homeruns he hit at various stadiums including his own. You are correct in stating he loses 7 total between left center and center field. The gain remains 5.
To say lefty hitters do not change in anyway at Yankee stadium is to ignore dozens of examples of players in the past who have attempted to pull more with the Yankees than they previously had in the past. I can assure you that Red Sox hitters change their approach from Fenway to the road. Especially lefties on away pitches to lefty hitters. Hell, I know the asst hitting instructor for the Yankees that with the Rockies now talking about hitting and that is far, far, far from the reality. You never want to go outside your normal stroke, but if you think hitters don’t try to pepper the wall at Fenway, or lift on short porches, you are crazy. The major problem in both teams histories is when they get players that obsess about using the dimensions. They mess their swings up, chase more, etc. Red Sox have dozens of examples in my lifetime of hitters breaking themselves about that f’ing Green Monster. It’s a doubles generating feature, the issue is when you think as a hitter it’s a short homerun if you upper cut. Terrible habit to form at home, that won’t translate on the road. I was a dead pull hitter as a righty, and I can promise you I never tried to pull at Yankee stadium. I would try to get the ball in the air to right. Hell, we all did on outside pitches. Because you have a shot at a fly ball home run, or line drive into the first row.
Yankee Clipper
William: I completely agree that he would change his approach and project even more pull-heavy, so that wasn’t what I was trying to articulate, so my bad. What I meant is that when you change from your normal approach to a pull-heavy approach it’s not always effective. In fact, many times it hurts the hitter, so we don’t know if it would help or hurt his numbers.
Two cases in point are Judge and Gleyber (I know they’re RH, but bear with me). When Judge was getting closer to #62 he focused more on pull. And as amazing as he is, it jacked his swing up enough to where he was losing power by opening up to pull the ball. Same with Gleyber. When he goes oppo, he’s great, but as soon as he tries to pull, he tanks…bad. He opens up, starts letting his hips fly open, starts disconnecting his lower half from his upper half, and he doesn’t generate the contact, hit, or power he should.
My only point is that the Ohtani in that stadium may not be as effective at pulling as we think because there is the human side that you alluded to. But, I admit, I could very well be wrong too.
And, man, I apologize if I came across a bit crass as I was up for about 36 hours, so I probably wasn’t conversing very well.
And honestly, this whole cap, no-cap stuff I try to avoid like the plague because none of us truly know what these teams make, imo. I got baited in though……. Ugh, the price of no sleep….
william-2
I rarely post but was having a great time with you so checked a couple times to see your posts. Was fun, and made me work. Love talking baseball and rarely have the chance. Your overall point about caps is spot on, Shame on your team for not spending (if they can, and could win). IT’s the team money and they can spend it like no tomorrow or hoard it for all I care.
My point all along is that I see all the bitching and moaning, but I get why. I back a team with means. You do as well. I could not imagine being a diehard Royals fan as an example knowing that the windows to win are so far between and so short before the teams with means pick them clean. It has to be frustrating to watch even All-Star games when a third or more of those players USED to be playing for (insert low budget team).
I remember the 1994 Montreal Expos. One of the best rosters I had seen in my lifetime. It was like watching the Big Red Machine, and just like that, it was all gone. Back to the drawing board, except it got so bad, and the fans were so dejected that in the end it was the total end. You should look up that team. It’s a good reminder of what it is like in other places around the league.
Yankee Clipper
Well, I don’t disagree at all there either. Perhaps that’s why I am so frustrated By the endeavor of the cap stuff – because I feel that the non-spenders do so much damage to their own product and the players by not spending what they could. Of course, all small markets get lumped in (erroneously by me too) together with the bad team owners and that’s not fair either. Mostly, I think it’s serves to hurt the players the most who have the chance to sell their services in FA to a team of their choosing at a rate of their acceptance.
But, I really enjoy speaking with people on here who can discuss these points back and forth – go points and counterpoints, without getting personal and insulting, so I appreciate it, bro.
I think MLB can strive to make this better still, there’s no doubt. But it worries me because they tend to mess things up when they stick their paws in it (ie, baseball composition changes).
Anyway, which team is your team of choice? Hard for me to tell because your moniker, William, plays kind of neutral…..lol.
william-2
What I fear will be the end result of all this will be a deteriorating market for mid-tier, and lower tier players as they age, being phased out earlier than in the past. I predicted it two years ago, and I see it happening in real time. Those days of building value and hanging on at a nice salary for 15 years for the good players, and 10 years for those lower guys will be a thing that goes away. They don’t have the value they once had because the money is pooling towards high end players, and the savings are made in the prospects, and pre arbitration players under control. Journey men relievers will be expendable for younger high-octane relievers. The valuation of aging lower tier pitchers will also plummet for this reason. The usefulness of your Brock Holt type players will be replaced, and the timeline for achieving success and development will be shortened for players in order to make those savings.
The teams with money can afford to dabble in both ends of the pool for high end players and higher priced players leaving their prime, but not the smaller market teams. They will strive for savings, anywhere they can find them. Normally I would call it dumpster diving, but at these prices, the dumpsters are behind Saks 5th Ave.
Yankee Clipper
Hm, I do have to admit, that perspective is something I hadn’t taken into consideration at all on the players’ side of this. I can understand how their utility would decrease as they age in an inflated market, especially as performance becomes an indirect relationship to aging.
This issue is multifaceted and extremely complex because the tentacles go everywhere and touch everything. I guess my question then would be:
does a cap resolve that particular issue of an aging vet that doesn’t fall into the top tier? It’s a genuine question and the reason I ask is because I e read here NFL has the problem where experienced vets who are no longer premiere athletes get cut once that cap gets hit and the team is forced to make those choices, which could have a negative effect on that demographic. Man, I dunno. It’s interesting for sure though.
Pete'sView
William — I have been saying exactly this for the past couple of seasons. It’s happening before our eyes, and it’s going to destroy the game I’ve loved since childhood.
william-2
I think the cap would increase the problem, not help it. I think that you will either see deep discounts or the jettison of those aging players. No matter what the teams spend at the big market level, they have to find value for the remainder of their roster. That means younger players, or guys staying around for less time, unless they are willing to take less to hold spots.
Pete'sView
William — What do you think about both a cap AND a floor, though I know neither side wants them?
metslvt17
I’d love for Alonso to be an all timer but I’ll buy a jersey of his on any team
Pete'sView
As a Giants fan, all I can say is sh#t! I’m sure SF offered that much, but he’d rather play with a bunch of all-stars, and who can blame him?
giantsphan12
@pete, agreed. I started to worry a little about Farhan’s approach after 2021, when we lost Buster (and didn’t even try to replace his bat or glove) and extended Craw. To think the 2021 team could play high level ball with so many things having to go right to win so many games, in 2022x was very unrealistic. Now, no one wants to join our squad, cuz we don’t have any “solid” players.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Farhan and Bloom seem very similar in approach to me
bigdaddyt
Man I remember the jays going into 2013 with Josh Johnson, Mark Buehrle , RA Dickey (coming off his CY Young), Brandon Morrow and JA Happ. That was hands down the best rotation going into that year, how did that turn out?
zbails
Respectfully this was never their rotation. The marlins and Mets trades were completed but they did not have JA Happ. At the time Ricky Romero was still considered a stud and he was the other pitcher. Dickey, Romero, Johnson, Buerhle, Morrow was the 5. Which one paper at the time looked even better than with Happ
JrodFunk5
Also none of those pitchers were anywhere close to elite. That rotation probably wasn’t top ten on paper pre season
zbails
Dickey was coming off his 3rd straight dominant season and had won the championship young that year. I’d say winning the award for best pitcher means you’re elite? Josh Johnson was 28, a multiple time all star with an ERA of 3.06 across the previous 5 seasons as the Marlins ace. He was actually on a hall of fame track before the trade. Morrow was young and had a 2.96 ERA the year before, Buerhle was the innings eater with a mid 3 ERA and the number 5 Romero was one year removed from being an all star with a sub 3 ERA. It was without a doubt a top 10 rotation on paper lmao. Just didn’t work out
dlw0906
Von, they don’t have much on the books after 2024 and by 2025 Baty, Alvarez, Mauricio, Ramirez, Tidwell, Allan (maybe), Jett Williams, Parada, Ziegler will all be on the team or ready to for call up. Max, JV, and Cano’s dead money will be gone even after nxt yr Carrasco, Escobar and Canha will be off the books. Obviously not all will pan out but this level of spending will start to level out once the prospects come up. They’re essentially following the earlier Dodgers model spend big to compete now while building the farm. Bwtween all the expiring contracts, Cano’s contract and a thin level of top prospects that is even thinner in SP Cohen inherited a mess from the Wilpons. Kudos to him for not folding up the show after losing Jake instead he seemed to say “screw it, I’m doubling down.”
I could seem them let McNeil go but Alonso isn’t going anywhere. Opening day 2024 should have low cost options like Baty, Alvarez, possibly Vientos and Mauricio too starting.
I think they move Carrasco now that they’ve signed Senga.
Lyman Bostock
Incredibly astute post. I’ll just add that Cohen literally said this was his plan when he took over the team. Which is why if you haven’t noticed we’ve held back on any trades that include our top prospects.
dugmet
Except for PCA – which never seemed like a smart move.
VonPurpleHayes
Cohen may splurge next offseason too. And at the trade deadline. I really think he wants Ohtani. I think you’ll have a lot more on the books in 2025 then initially planned.
padam
@dlw – exactly. I had posted last week that the Mets are dropping tons of salary over the next two years, while a solid amount of pitching will hit free agency. Cole, Ohtani, Nola, Glasnow, Bieber, Wheeler, Giolito, Urias, Darvish, Snell, Ray, Peralta, Soroka, Fried, Bucheler, Woodruff, Burnes…
They can pick one or two up each year and answer the call. The field looks set with the kids filling in the open spots.
Samuel
padam;
Great point!
Considering the market, I can’t see why a one of those guys would sign an extension with his current team unless he was injured.
I’ve been saying it for years – make all players free agents at the end of each season and only allow one year contracts.
Mr. Cohen and Mr. Seidler have made a mockery of MLB’s salary structure, and I refuse to take the league seriously anymore.
–
P.S. I found something interesting about Mr. Seidler…..
Some kid came on here posting about how “refreshing” he was, and said he was worth $3 billion and didn’t care about money….all owners should be like him.
This has to be about the worst chatroom where people make comments about financial matters. For the record, Mr. Seidler’s firm manages “equity capital” of $3 billion. That money is not his. LOL
P.S.S. Last I looked 30 people liked the kids comment.
Ma4170
@dlw – yes, right there w/ you. I think they hope for 2025 to be Alvarez, Alonso, Williams, Lindor, Baty on the IF. Nimmo, Ramirez, FA in OF. Parada at DH unless they get ohtani. Tidwell, Allan, Peterson, Senga, plus top FA SP for the rotation. Ziegler in pen w/ Diaz. Mauricio and Vientos insurance along with Vasil, maybe Hamel. Now not all those guys will pan out, but I think this is the dream vision.
deweybelongsinthehall
Von, Cohen doesn’t care about the taxes. My guess is they will ultimately trade from excess and try to rebuild their farm that way. Probably won’t get any studs but will develop depth.
Blue Dude
They have some studs on the way in Alvarez and Baty
NYMets4Life
Why would they not have money to sign Alonso & McNeil? They are FA in 2025. Both Verlander and Scherzer would be off the books
User 401527550
They said the same about Nimmo a couple weeks ago. He is now a life long Met.
VonPurpleHayes
Just like deGrom right? The Mets model is the Dodgers who let stars go and replace them with FA. Every few years they’ll reset to get under the tax. Nimmo filled a position of need. Mets can find a lot of homerun hitting 1B/DH types. Alonso is 100% going to test FA.
User 401527550
Degrom missed a majority of the last two seasons. Alonso hardly misses any time. I wanted to see Degrom back but understand why he’s gone. I’m under no delusion that Alonso doesn’t go to free agency. The problem is his biggest market with the biggest need will be the Mets.
Ma4170
I think they’ll have to overpay to keep alonso because he’s such a key team member, which can’t be undervalued and has nothing to do with statlines. It’s part of what makes a high performing team high performing. The only issues I see are “good” ones where parada might be the best hitter currently in the system, but would be blocked by alvarez and ohtani if they actually did sign him to DH. And they can’t move him to 1b if pete’s there. Again, little things that eventually become bigger. Same with vientos if he actually pans out – he has nowhere to play. I’ll take these problems any day of the week if these guys actually turn out to be as good as projected.
DarkSide830
Okay Ive officially come around – the league needs a darn cap.
Balk
1 horse race, crazy! Haha
danm-6
AND a darn floor.
avenger65
Definitely a floor. That will give some owners a well-deserved kick in the pants and force them to sign players. Not.bottom of the barrel guys like clevinger and Reyes.
VegasSDfan
$125 million
GASoxFan
No need for a salary floor. Get rid of revenue sharing payment, and, turn them into a salary expense EBT card of sorts.
Payroll welfare.
MLB agrees to match 1 out of every 3 dollars spent on player salaries, up to the revenue sharing amount each team is otherwise entitled to.
Maybe you get 2 tiers, one group gets dollar for dollar matching, one gets 1 in 3. Mechanics are adjustable.
You want to push further, matching doesn’t kick in for the first 40 million. 20 million. Whatever.
Don’t spend it? Fine. Any excess revenue still in the fund at year’s end goes into (insert your favorite group of initiatives here – youth baseball; minor league benefits; retirement pensions for major leaguers retiring with less than 1-year experience; catastrophic injury fund for pre-arb players; whatever) and the fund resets to zero the next year.
danm-6
That’s a very interesting idea, GASoxFan…
hiflew
At the very least, they need more than 5 or so franchises competing for free agents. There is enough talent in free agency that ANY team could turn around if they just tried instead of choosing to operate a AAA team at the big league level just to get guys some experience.
bigdaddyt
As a jays fan I disagree, can’t sign free agents with minimal other teams competing for the player
slider32
Time to add Musk and Cuban to the mix!
User 401527550
Cuban would be an average owner. He only has a net worth of 4 bil. His NBA team is in continuous mediocrity. What would he offer?
falconsball1993
What if the Mets don’t win? Why a salary cap?
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Forget a salary cap, have part of the luxury tax penalty be to require more free home games on broadcast tv for that team
seamaholic 2
Even if they don’t win the World Series, this domination of the free agent market by five or six teams (at most) makes it very difficult for lower budget teams to get better. Because when top end salaries go haywire, the next level follows suit, and pretty soon the small market teams can’t find utility infielders for under $10m.
i like al conin
Good point Seamaholic 2
of9376
Maybe “small market” teams should spend more money. Every owner in baseball is a billionaire. They are making fortunes with revenue sharing and TV deals. I don’t feel bad for a team that is frugal just to put more $ in the owners pocket.
rct
“this domination of the free agent market by five or six teams (at most) makes it very difficult for lower budget teams to get better.”
Mets are a bit of an outlier at the moment, but there’s nothing stopping every team in baseball from spending $150+ million on payroll. Every team shares 48% of its revenue, which is spread around to all of the teams via revenue sharing (3.3% of the pot). They also get a cut of the national (MLB’s) profit. From baseball-reference:
As a result, in 2018, each team received $118 million from this pot. Teams also receive a share of national revenues, which were estimated to be $91 million per team, also in 2018.
baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Revenue_sharing
So that’s a ton of money, even prior to earning their own money through TV deals, tickets, merchandise, etc. And also not including that these team’s franchise values have increased 10x in the last thirty years (example: Nutting bought the Pirates from $92 million in 1996; its estimated value is over $1.2 billion now).
So, maybe the small market teams should stop crying poor and sign a free agent or two.
Yankee Clipper
Rct: Moreover, there’s *no* evidence based on these non-spending teams’ actions over the past several years, in some cases decade(s), that placing a cap on big market will have any effect whatsoever on their attempts to spend or win at all!
Those teams are operating to minimize expense and maximize profits – to cap teams under the auspices of competetive balance completely misses the point. It will likely have no effect on those other teams, which will continue to operate the exact same way. You’re trying to force them to compete better by punishing their opponents.
It’s…..unrealistic. It’s a lack of acknowledgement of the fundamental reason there’s such a spending disparity and competitive disparity (regardless of spending) in the first place.
rct
@YankeeClipper: exactly. Would putting a hard cap on teams make the Pirates spend more money? Nope. It will just make Nutting mad that his check from MLB for the luxury tax penalties will be smaller because they prevented Cohen (and others) from spending whatever they desire..
emac22
It’s pretty weak to argue against a cap using the theory that all you can do is make the cap more punitive.
It’s really easy to add some structure and get it to support any goal you want.
The keys are to make teams spend any money they get from the tax system while leaving them free to compete in creative ways.
The problem is the simplistic nature of a simple tax with any rules for the welfare teams.
I’d argue the best options are to use tax money to buy out some of the cheapest teams and move/resell them to owners with enough money to compete.
Maybe the solution is a more fungible system to sort MLB and AAA teams by payroll with borderline teams shifting back and forth so they can rebuild in the minor leagues.
The right to field an MLB team shouldn’t be one that you earn permanently regardless of the damage you do to the industry.
stymeedone
Cohen has chosen to tap into his own wealth. He’s the exception. Regardless of owner, the team will be in the same market, with the same TV contract and the same stadium and the same fans. If run as a business, payroll will not be substantially different. The problem is the disparity of market sizes, not owners.
slider32
True, but a cap and floor would work!
slider32
Time for a cap and floor, keep teams with in 50 million, and maybe add the Bird clause!
Yankee Clipper
If MLB does anything, it’s screw things up. If they attempted a cap and floor it would be a disaster.
They can’t even get the most basic part of the sport right -the baseball!
william-2
True. It is already nearly impossible for small market teams to retain their own talent, let alone recruit any. Every mistake a small market team makes can’t be erased with a pile of money like many big market teams do (Cashman nearly every other year has 1 or 2 lemons he adds, and every year has to patch things up at the trade deadline). It is usually a half a decade lasting, franchise crippling disaster when a small market team makes a major mistake.
Yankee Clipper
Oh, yes William, that’s why the Pirates have been so bad, because of the crippling disaster! That’s why they never spend the CB money intended to help them compete. Makes sense! And the other non-competing teams too. Poor teams, no money. Oh wait, we *know* they’re given a minimum of $150MM to spend from large markets and they don’t. That’s outside of whatever they make. Perhaps they do have money?
Always an excuse with non-competitive small markets. Always a reason. Just be honest and instead of trying to indirectly rig the game, just request a draft lottery for the playoffs every year so your team gets granted immediate entry. In fact, forget about scores because talent may create a competitive imbalance. Just have a coin flip at the end of 9 innings to give the small markets a better chance to win too!
User 401527550
That’s not true. In a couple weeks as the big market teams fill out their rosters the remaining players will grab whatever is offered just to keep a job.
This one belongs to the Reds
Billionaires don’t become billionaires by losing money so they won’t be spending more than their revenues in any of their businesses. Get some sense people or at least understand how businesses work before making ridiculous statements.
GASoxFan
Baseball is losing fans and viewership. Removing teams from vast areas of the country necause population density isnt there is the wrong approach.
Pull the local team out and their fans aren’t going to flock to care about some city 500 miles away.
Under this redistribution the marlins and rays are gone. You think the Florida based fans are going to all become braves fans overnight? No, you lose 22 million potential fans for baseball. Lack of in person attendance doesn’t equal fans.
It gets worse in other areas of the country.
One could say, let’s contract the Mets and Yankees into one team, cubbies and white Sox, dodgers and angels. Oakland and SF. Then make 4 expansion teams spread through the country, maximize local fans close to a ball club. Dumb right?
So is retracting teams limiting fan interaction and ties to a nearby club.
That’s what makes people root for a different sport.
Samuel
emac22;
What right does MLB have to tell small market teams they must spend revenue sharing money on payroll? Do they tell large market teams they need to spend less money on payroll? It’s discriminatory.
Small market teams spend more money on things like analytics, pitching and hitting machines, video equipment etc. and the people that can use them to coach up players, making the players they have under contract better. Look at what small market teams such as the Rays, Brewers, Guardians, Orioles do with so-so free agents and guys they get off the waiver wire, even in trades etc. They work with those players that they get on the cheap and are known for making some better as they become productive players for those teams for years.
By telling teams that they must spend that money on so-so players – because that’s all they’ll be able to afford – you’re taking away the edge they have and guaranteeing that those teams will stay lousy. You’re stopping those teams from going through a rebuild by brining their payroll down for a few years then drafting and signing young cheap players and developing them. In short, you’re guaranteeing those teams fans that they’ll never be a serious contending team.
Anyway……it’s never going to happen.
william-2
That $150 isn’t given to each team, It is spread amongst them. Let’s assume every small market team today could spend 100 million, and some have pushed themselves upwards of 130 million. Let us assume they all spend the full 100 million to 130 million. That would place them at roughly 30 to 50 million less than the payroll of the mid-tier spending teams at the 150 million range (about 4), 60 to 80 million less than the next higher level (about 5), and as much as 100+ million below 5 teams. 25+ man roster to fill. 12 teams (now) make the playoffs.
Assume each 30 million represents an all-star caliber player in their respective prime years, or later years for elite talent (30 because the higher stuff we are seeing the last two years is an impossibility for the teams we are discussing, and that in itself should be proof enough). This in no way even touches on the money available for player development, minor league contracts, or the appeal to players when trying to recruit talent. Let’s take the Mets this off season with a payroll of 300+ million for arguments sake. That is a possibility of 10 all-star purchases (30 million example). Unrealistic because that 300+ million will be spread over the entire roster because you need to field 25+ over the season. A team at 130 million can make a total of 4 all-star purchases, but that has to be spread over the 25+. Assume young talent, arbitration, low output players, and the occasional signing of mid-tier talent, there is your 130 million. How many real all=-stars could you actually sing, or keep? 1 or 2? How many under the same exact circumstance for the Dodgers, Yankees, etc? half a dozen, maybe more? Maybe a discount for ring chasers at the end of their careers. Is Pittsburg getting ring chasers at 15 to 20 million a year rather than 25 million? More like reclamations, cast offs, and people trying to stay in the show. BTW, Pittsburg three times had amazing teams in my lifetime. How long was that window each time before that roster was picked clean by other teams seeing opportunities the Pirates could never match? 2 to 3 years of buildup, 2 to 3 years of contention, and then 2 to 3 years of tear down in each case. Wait a decade for the process to possibly repeat depending how bad the team could get to build prospects.
Let us now see if logically that would change the parameters. Would smaller market team now be able to retain elite talent from leaving for higher contract opportunities elsewhere? In large part, no. The bigger contracts cripple an attempt to achieve a balanced roster able to compete for more than a very short window. You would have to fulfill that contract, and if you do win at all, pay arbitration increases for your own players you developed, and still need to fill holes to maintain competitiveness. Players would still need to give hometown discounts to be retained.
Would they be able to get high price talent in their fold? In large part, no. They could attain either a slightly larger number of mid-tier players or make a splash once in a while for an elite player. Based on the 30 million equals a great player model that would represent nearly 1/3 of their roster payroll before having to fill out another 24+ slots.
Would making a mistake be mitigated with the extra money? In large part, no. Handing out a large contract to an elite player for a small market team would simply be at whatever the going high rate is atm, taking up a major portion of their payroll, and giving them a lack of opportunity to plug holes with either quality replacements, especially proven high-end talent. A mistake with 1/3 of your payroll is already crushing. More than 1 would ensure a lost half decade. Mid-tier mistakes are already a problem for many of these team, as those tend to represent as much as 10% or more of their entire payroll for 10 million plus players. Still have 24+ slots to fill.
I just increased every small market team’s payroll for this example and didn’t solve a single underlying problem. Truth is, I don’t care. These are private businesses owned by real human beings. They can spend as they wish. Do what they want within the framework provided.
I am just not going to sit he and delude myself into thinking those teams have a remotely close playing field to retain their players, extend any run at contention, or recruit the talent they need to fill short comings when and where they need to like larger market teams can.
Yankee Clipper
William, the $100+MM is in fact given to each and every team. It is *not* split as you allege.
“ In Major League Baseball, 48% of local revenues are subject to revenue sharing and are distributed equally among all 30 teams, with each team receiving 3.3% of the total sum generated – in 2018, each team received $118 million from this pot. Teams also receive a share of national revenues, which were estimated to be $91 million per team, also in 2018”
That over $200MM PER TEAM IN REVENUE SHARES ALONE!!!
william-2
I would have to check but I think their total revenue (all included with TV, gate, rev share, etc) is basically 250 million total, or so. You are right and I misunderstand the lumping of the pools into the rev sharing when I checked earlier. They seem to be operating despite that money at a very low profit margin considering how low the payroll is, and the fact the stadium was subsidized by tax money. It’s a mathematical problem I would have to delve into, but as it stands, they don’t seem to be all the profitable despite their holding payroll down.
I know Forbes placed their total revenue intake under the Dodgers play payroll outlay alone. I’ll delve in later.
Yankee Clipper
Okay, fair enough.
DTD/ATL1313
It’s not really about winning or losing with these contracts. It’s about 80% of the league not spending while the other 15% do.
Blue Baron
@DarkSide830: It’ll never happen. The MLBPA is miles ahead of and stronger than the unions in the NBA, NFL, and NHL. An argument can be made that the top stars in those sports are underpaid because of salary caps.
emac22
Is a union stronger when they screw over 95% of their membership so that 5% can get most of the money?
I’d argue the stronger unions are the ones focused on getting their side the biggest percentage of income.
Letting a few stars take all the cash is how owners beat players.
User 401527550
The league minimum was just raised by a couple hundred k. They are taking care of every one.
slider32
Great point, Teams are spending like their is no tomarrow since the new CBA was passed. They made it seem like the players won, and with all the spending we can see that the teams are doing very well..
Yankee Clipper
Okay, I’ve finally come to realize the error of my ways. Since I disagree with the premise of a hard cap, I’m willing to compromise….cap the METS!
Blue Baron
@Yankee Clipper: An amazingly dumb statement, even for a Yankees fan.
Yankee Clipper
Sooooo, does “amazingly dumb” mean you’re impressed? Kind of an oxymoron.
Nonetheless, it’s just a joke, because we both know the Yankees will still win even if you run it up to $500MM.
Blue Baron
@Yankee Clipper: Huh? The Yankees haven’t won squat in 14 years, and the Astros are their daddies! But keep living in the past. Whatever floats your boat.
Lyman Bostock
Perfect response clipper lol
Yankee Clipper
Blue: You’re killing me, Smalls!
Look, rule #1 because I like you – don’t call out a team for not winning in 14 years, when your team hasn’t won in 35. And since then, my team has won….5 times.
Rule #2, because I don’t want you to make a mistake again, brother – don’t chastise us for losing in the ALCS to the WS Champion Astros when you lost in the………………
Fill in the blank. C’mon brother. I try to keep it casual but head-on?
Lyman Bostock
Every championship is in the past lol
How can we just live in the present and talk sports if we don’t talk about the past? So let’s not go to the hall of fame or put up banners because it’s living in the past?
Blue Baron
@Yankee Clipper: Rule #3-15, you said “the Yankees will still win.” Based on what? A bunch of entitled front-running fans? And when will they win again, 2035?
Yankee Clipper
Okay Blue, I’ll give you a pass for a true…fair?
Yankee Clipper
Dang, I hate autocorrect sometimes; and, the inability to edit is irritating. Should read, “truce” not “true.”Ugh
slider32
Blue Baron, where did you get that statement from a Snoop Dog commercial!
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Let’s cap Bile Baron
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Daddies plural, at least you are progressive
yetipro
Yes. Most owners can’t afford to chronically take a massive loss on the business aspect. Most organizations have to ~break even in the long run. If the business aspect is thrown out the window for 1 owner it throws the game out of balance. The Yankees used to operate this way but at least they get the fans & make a ton of money. The Mets will never get enough fans in the seats & never make enough money to cover all of these expenses. Maybe they can win the next 8 World Series in a row & plan on pilfering most of the Yankees fan base to cover it.
Imagine what kinds of children’s hospitals or causes Cohen could have gotten into instead of paying a 20% premium beyond what any of these players have been offered by anyone else.
DarkSide830
Would love to know where the tax goes to TBH.
Yankee Clipper
Goes in part to the players retirement and then to teams that did not cross the threshold. I posted a link the other day with the explanation on the …… DBacks story, I think?
slider32
Flash- emergency owners meeting – owners put in a hard cap with a hard floor.
GASoxFan
In 2012 guggenheim bought the dodgers from mccourt. They had a $95m payroll.
In 2013, it was $216m.
In 2014, $236m
In 2015, $273m
In case you wondered, $273m in 2022 dollars would be… wait for it – $343m. Funny huh?
Well, the 2016 CBA increased penalties in the CBT, in many ways in response to that LAD/guggenheim trend. And the owners around the league saw the message. Stay more or less within the limits. Reset every couple years, or, MLB will as a whole become more draconian.
Also in case you wondered, in 2015 the next closest team in salary was at 220m, the NYY. That’s a then 50m gap, which today would be roughly 80m in today’s cash and dropped off from there.
So, Cohen wasn’t around for that, and, mlb will again need to make up its mind on what to do. Much like LAD had 3 years until negotiations picked up, NYM have 3 years to show how drastic the next CBA will clamp down.
Yankee Clipper
Here’s another good read for anyone who may be interested in the parity in MLB and why the cap isn’t what it’s purported to be:
cbssports.com/mlb/news/why-major-league-baseball-d…
jt33nym
5/75 seems like a steal with the SP market, even though Senga’s never pitched in MLB yet. Love the move!
VonPurpleHayes
5/75 is great, but in the Mets case, it’s almost 5/150 because of the tax penalties.
Ma4170
Yes but this seems like a surprisingly reasonable contract
VonPurpleHayes
Yup. Love the deal. Wish my team made it.
Kruk's Beer League
He might be good. Or he could be another Kikuchi.
Chipsss
And Farhan sits on the sideline again. What a joke
gmenfan
In fairness, we don’t know if/what the Giants offered for Senga. And as Giants fans are finding out, unless Farhan is willing to massively overpay, no higher end talent wants to be the sole star on this otherwise lackluster roster.
Blue Baron
You can have Ruf back for a box of baseballs.
ArmChairGM-
Cohen means business. Dude wants to win and has no problem spending his money. I like it.
payroll now at $348,000,000
danm-6
That is obscene. Perfectly legal (currently), and props to him for being willing to spend to win, but…
Is this what we want baseball to be? Is it okay if there are 6 or 8 or 10 Superteams, with 20 also-rans just filling out the league?
At what point is that not even an interesting league anymore?
VonPurpleHayes
Rules are going to change as a result of this, but hopefully it’ll be rules that force the non-spenders to spend more as well.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Mets pay 100 million in 2023 for off-season signings Verlander, Nimmo, Diaz and Senga, more than several teams entire payroll.
Imagine had the Marlins signed Judge, Trea Turner and Bogaerts, at their actual contract rates, it would have been less money in 2023 then what Mets spent
padam
@manny, in fairness to the Mets, two of them were resignings and they lost several. If they just went and resigned their own players, they’d still be over the 100 M.
Blue Baron
@Manny: Nope, can’t imagine that. Nobody wants to play in Miami, even for money.
i like al conin
Couldn’t agree with you more, Danm-6. Great game, unfair competition.
Ma4170
And let’s be real, it’s the agents and players union driving the crazy contracts that takes certain teams out of the running
i like al conin
It’a totally unfair. Money buys championships. More than half the franchises have short competitive windows before they have to rebuild while teams with high payrolls compete every year. A beautiful game with an unfair ugly competitive imbalance.
RyanD44
Who had the highest payroll last year? Who won the World Series?
How about 2021?
2019?
2018?
2017?
2016?
2015?
2014?
2013?
2012?
2011?
2010?
I thought you said money buys championships. I don’t think the highest payroll team has won since 2009.
VonPurpleHayes
Dodgers in 2020
hiflew
Postseason is really all about luck and who is hot in October. HOWEVER, those high payrolls get the opportunity to be one of the teams that gets hot in October more often than not. Yeah, you might not win the raffle, but you do get a ticket.
i like al conin
RyanD44, you’re missing my point. It doesn’t have to be literal. It’s indisputable that the top 10 payrolls have a consistently higher probability of making the playoffs every year.
i like al conin
But it does, Phils. Like Hiflew said above, it gets you to the playoffs. I never said the “most” money buys them.
.
You are right hiflew…100% right.
Yankee Clipper
The problem is if you look at any sport you have the same top teams making the playoffs every year for the most part. It’s no different than baseball, unless They rotate consistently?
It’s never going to be a utilitarian system for so many reasons that have nothing to do with spending. That’s just going to force big stars to take less and go to small teams which is really what they’re asking for. More stars forced to their teams due to cap space.
NBA had super teams, NFL had super teams, both of which simply dominated the sport. That was far less enjoyable.
How many Super Bowls have been horrible because of the talent mismatch? But because the teams are capped and they got to the playoffs it’s better?
I don’t know man, I just don’t see it. It’s not going to fix anything. In fact, every time MLB does something major like that they ruin something. You cannot legislate competition because, by its nature, someone will always have an unfair advantage – better coaches, better players, better field advantages, whatever.
Blue Baron
@conin: Actually, it’s totally fair within the system and rules. You not liking the outcome doesn’t make it unfair.
william-2
You aren’t guaranteed a World Series, too many variables, but you can be competitive nearly every year for the chance to enter the playoffs. Some teams are eliminated sometime around April.
A fairly good GM should give you a chance at the playoffs every year with top payrolls. It takes a GM making some terrible misjudgments for an elite spending team to not be in striking distance for a playoff spot at the wire. The Red Sox are actually an aberration in baseball historically. It is harder for them to do this first to last to first to last thing they have been doing so often lately, with the money they spend, than it is to compete in the playoffs nearly every year. It sounds weird, but it’s true. It’s harder to come in last than first for the Red Sox, and they manage to do it. That is a reflection of terrible roster building.
Yankee Clipper
Right, they’re eliminated because they don’t spend or improve their team. They pick up scrap heaps and run out a subpar roster. You’re blaming teams that try for teams that don’t.
An analogy: You’re saying the guy who gets paid a ton of money for working hard every day, long hours, should be limited in wages so the dude who is uneducated and doesn’t feel like getting off the couch until noon and doing anything g with his life can get a matching wage at a dead-end job because that’s……..fairer.
No. Until the real issue is addressed, the money has *no impact*. It’s doesn’t matter if teams were limited to $200MM. Pirates, O’s, etc, etc are well below $100MM too often. They take themselves out
You cannot save them from themselves by punishing teams that actually want to try. The solution is: force them to sell if they won’t compete or root for a better team. No other sport has the cap worked. Not one. It solves nothing. Creates no parity. It does nothing but makes smaller markets feel better about getting stars on their team. That’s it!
Pachoo
This is quite a bit different than any of those prior years. We’ve never seen a team outpsend every other team to the degree the 2023 Mets are. The disparity is unprecedented.
Yankee Clipper
Who cares?! So they spend a lot of money and are going to get penalized for it heavily. If they don’t fix it next year it goes up more. That’s precisely why they have the progression in place.
How is this a surprise to anyone? The mere fact that they are in a second phase of a third penalty tier that MLB put in place should tell everyone that MLB knew this was possible and designed punishments to fit it that were agreeable.
The only reason there’s such a disparity from the average is because tools like Nutting refuse to spend anything. So you’re giving those teams that are abhorrent and actually harming competition a pass while disparaging the team that’s playing by the rules and competing.
You guys seriously need to reflect on your blame game.
william-2
I am not saying any of that, nor have I ever advocated for a cap, or floor. Teams can spend as they want, and do.
I am just not delusional in thinking a team filling a 25+ game day roster with 30 million, 60 million, or 100 million is going to be able to be as flexible, able to cover mistakes, as competitive consistently over time, able to recruit or retain talent, or able to field as much quality as a team that can spread 200+ million over the same 25+ man game day roster. I am not a socialist, everyone gets a trophy for participating guy. Farthest thing from it. I just have chosen to acknowledge that telling the Pirates to spend $100 million every year is like asking them to be consistently mediocre for the sake of doing it rather than good for a brief spark of time till it is snuffed out. As upper tier teams chose to spend elaborately without complaint about what that does to lower tier teams, I don’t see the right of questioning why the Pirates aren’t spending an extra 60 million a year to come in third or have 1/3 of their payroll sunk into 1 great free agent player, maybe 2/3 of the payroll if they want 2 great players. Maybe sink 1/3 of their payroll into keeping that elite player (insert any name from past) to keep them, at the expense of having a more diluted 24 other guys.
Are you that delusional? This is basic stuff. You think I am bashing big market teams, when all I am doing is explaining the reality of not being a big market team. You compete less, for less time, and the options are few to keep, and to get. This equates into wins and losses over time. There are brief moments for franchises where they buck the system, and compete above their playing weight, but that is usually either short lived because of those financial restraints, or extended beyond reason (Rays, A’s) by stellar administration. Rare, very rare. It is far easier to spend for talent others produce, then to produce it, or evaluate it. This is carved in stone. If you can buy, produce and evaluate, you have what we call dynasties.
Yankee Clipper
If you’re implying that it is delusional to think the Pirates can be more competitive by actually acquiring MLB talent and spending the money allocated to them for competitive balance for said purpose, I disagree.
You are talking about winning championships, I am talking about being more competitive, perhaps making the ever-expanding playoffs. So, while you tend toward the extreme, I was addressing the point that the Pirates can be far more competitive, far more often than they are.
Here’s the problem, frankly: Most people say you can’t buy a WS. Most people also contend the playoffs are a crapshoot. Then when arguing for a cap, they completely alter their argument to suggest the Pirates can’t spend every year because they can only build a great team once a decade. It’s talking out of both sides.
Simply put: arguing for argument’s sake is silly. You either believe playoffs are a crapshoot or you don’t. Do you?
highheat
It’s not about small markets feeling better about having a star player on their team, because many of those small markets already have said player; however, the fact that they can’t keep the star players they have on their team without an Acuna/Albies like extension (you know, highway robbery) or paying market rate (which some Mr. Moneybags is going to do anyway; no problem with folks getting paid their worth) is an issue.
There are all kinds of concerns for owners in regards to money that aren’t just that year’s payroll; if I’m just pointing out the DBacks I could point out paying off the mound of debt that prior ownership accrued getting a WS, the transfer of assets that went into said ownership change, the need for stadium renovations (to the tune of over $150MM), the current potential relocation talks, etc. Obviously, not ALL of that is happening at once, but that’s a lot of turmoil for a franchise that’s just going to turn 25 (and thus doesn’t have the same Name Brand staying power that franchises like New York or Boston have). That’s not being said to apologize for Ken Kendrick, because I have numerous qualms with him, but there are extenuating circumstances that can contribute to penny pinching.
That also being said, small market owners in those circumstances can still stand to eat into their profits more because they’re essentially (literally is probably the better word) getting a free ride. For the life of me I can’t understand how Nutting is allowed to get away with that. Pitt has one of the nicest ballparks in the league in a good sized market… yet nothing.
I’m personally not opposed to a cap, and if a team can’t afford to run itself without revenue sharing I agree they should be sold and/or relocated; as much as it pains me to say, because the DBacks would be gone in a hurry.
The problem isn’t so much a cap, as the existing contracts within a new framework. Of course it would look like the big market teams are being penalized, because they’re left with less cap space due to preexisting contracts. I’d be remiss to note that none of the other CBA structures allowed for compensation for prior contracts excepting new rules, but we’ve already experimented a ton so I have no problem sitting down to work out a way to facilitate a transition to a new cap structure. You can’t just slap old, poorly sized parts into a new engine and expect it to operate efficiently, if at all.
Having the same budgeted restraints for every team IS parity, because Front Office work becomes a game of resource allocation with everyone on a level playing field. But then again, maybe this is an irrelevant discussion when sponsor patches roll in. All hail our new corporate Overlords.
GASoxFan
Pachoo, no, it’s not.
2015 Dodgers had 273m payroll. Inflation adjusted that’s 343m in 2022 dollars.
Second highest payroll was Yankees, 50 million behind. Again, adjusted to 2022 money that’s over 80m behind.
And the rest of the league was even further back. So, it’s not unprecedented, just everyone learned their lesson after the 2016 cbt negotiations to play in the top range or deal with more draconian restrictions.
seamaholic 2
That’s European soccer, which is very much where we’re going. It’s very popular and successful. But Euro football fans are very loyal to their teams even though they stink, relatively speaking, and almost literally never even win one game vs the big boys. Don’t know if American fans will put up with that.
Mattimeo09
@seamaholic 2
I’m an American West Ham fan, and also a diehard Cleveland fan. So my sports life is all about suffering and loyalty haha
i like al conin
What’s frustrating is like in the steroids era the media is totally silent on this competitive imbalance problem. No outside scrutiny to account. If you’re silent you’re complicit.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Not the same at all.
Fans know about this.
Owners, FO, managers, players and media kept public in dark about steroids until Jose Canseco was the whistleblower hero. A pathetic wretch of a man, he still saved the game and is a hero.
i like al conin
It is the same. Illegal or not, steroids and high spending create a competitive imbalance. That’s the problem. Yet there is no scrutiny by the media to influence public opinion and add pressure during CBA negotiations. You want to change the system, the media has to be part of it, and they’re not.
VonPurpleHayes
The problem with your point is that your basing it on the assumption that competitive imbalance is a bad thing. A lot of people don’t see it that way. Most of the world’s major sports don’t see it that way. Look at FIFA.
i like al conin
You might be right if your polling sample is in NYC, but it’s doubtful a majority agree competitive imbalance is a good thing in a national poll. It’s Unamerican to say the least. And doubtful in the lower 15 MLB markets.
Yankee Clipper
The argument fails because you argue from a faulty premise, which is: to spend money is bad and unfair to those teams that aren’t spending. Conclusion: Teams that spend and try to win should be punished and restricted because the teams that aren’t even trying are barely participating.
Well, there are so many problems with this line of thinking that it is precisely why it doesn’t change. For instance:
1) You assume that the lower 15 cannot afford it, which you can’t since only the owners know for sure and it appears there’s a whole lot more money than what people may think;
2) You assume that MLB wants a cap and the players’ union would allow it, which they wouldn’t;
3) You assume that spending will hurt the game, but it won’t. It’s a self-correcting problem just like all other free-market economics.
4) Mets can’t keep spending on FAs because there’s only 26 MLB positions
5) The more that large markets make in revenue, the more it helps out the smaller markets because they get money from the the excesses of the large markets.
6) You cote the framework of other sports as more equitable, yet baseball has the most parity of any other sport. The most common sport is football and the NE Patriots ran that sport forever. How was there more parity there?
So, what it sounds like you’re saying is you want the small markets to have equal signing rights to free agents, regardless of their fair market value.
That’s *not the same thing as competitive balance*
VonPurpleHayes
Oh I didn’t mean fans per se. I think competitive imbalances are good for business in a lot of cases.
Blue Baron
@conin: The media has no stake nor say in how the business of MLB is run, so there’s nothing the media can do or say to change it. It’s a system collectively bargained between the MLBPA and MLB owners. And if you watched the CBA negotiations earlier this year, you would have to believe the owners are happy with it because in the endgame of bargaining, they gave a lot of ground to reach a settlement before any games were canceled. Clearly, few owners have the stomach for the kind of fight they started in 1994 trying to break the union and get a salary cap.
If anything, there is greater animus between big market owners and small market owners than between owners collectively and the MLBPA.
Hammerin' Hank
Come on, Canseco did not save the game. The game did not need to be saved. The game was doing just fine during the steroid era, and it is doing just fine today. The NFL players are all using PEDs, and no one even cares. Most people really didn’t care about baseball players doing it either, despite all the whining about it by old-school fans and media.
Hammerin' Hank
How did steroid use create a competitive imbalance when probably 75 percent of the players were using them? It’s not like it was confined to certain teams only.
Hammerin' Hank
Baseball has always been dominated by a few teams. The Yankees almost single-handedly dominated from the 1920s to the early 1960s. Even in the 1970s, where free agency didn’t really exist until 1976, a select few teams won everything. The A’s won 3 in a row from 1972-74. The Reds won in 1975 and ’76. Then the Yankees in 1977 and ’78. And these were bookended by Pirates’ titles in 1971 and ’79. And 3 of these teams are now considered small-market clubs. The point is that no matter what economic system has been in place, baseball has been and will probably always be ruled by a handful of teams at any given moment.
Lyman Bostock
75%? Not saying you’re wrong, but how did you come to that figure?
Lyman Bostock
The orioles had a few years of prominence during the 70’s too
hiflew
Canseco didn’t save the game. Canseco did what Canseco ALWAYS did. He thought of himself. He just wanted to sell books.
hiflew
The difference is that in the 70s, teams dominated because they developed talent better than others. They didn’t dominate because they spent $200 million more than their peers. Yes, the Yankees always had more money, but it never was to the extent it is now.
What is really laughable is people here just saying that the Pirates and A’s should just spend more money. It is amazing how people here love to spend other people’s money. It is all going to crash one day and salaries will end up like the NHL cut by like 75%. Paying a man $40+ million dollars to pitch in maybe 32 games is just asinine.
stymeedone
@danm
None of us know, but lets have fun watching David beat Goliath.
Pachoo
Yep, this trend could quickly make baseball less watchable like the European soccer leagues where only the same 2 or 3 teams ever have a chance to win the league (La Liga, Series A, Bundesliga, etc.) because the top same teams outspend everyone else by 2x, 3x, etc.
slider32
Walmart is open for business, we will squash the bug!
Yankee Clipper
Here’s a white paper wherein the authors researched competitive balance in professional sports and whether salary caps improve competitive balance in those sports.
The findings of the research in this collegiate white paper were that salary caps do not help competitive balance.
libjournals.mtsu.edu/index.php/jfee/article/downlo…
geoffb1982
Wow. Farhan Zaidi is failing badly. Note to other teams: don’t hire an ex-A’s executive
27champyankees
Zaidi was a bad hire in San Francisco. He belongs in a small market.
He’s entering his 5th season and has only fielded a winning team above .500 one time. Ugh
And now, he’s got some room to spend money and he’s completely incompetent in reading / adjusting to the volatile FA Market
hereallnight
Both Zaidi and Chaim Bloom belong in small markets.
They’re out of their depth in their current roles.
hopper15
It definitely wasn’t a bad hire but I do agree a small market would be better for him.
gfan
East Coast took Zaidi to school .
Where he looks to have flunked out .
Chipsss
He should be fired. 21 was a complete random joke, wouldn’t happen again in 100 years. He’s struck out with any quality free agent he’s went after, and declined to go after at least 25 quality free agents the giants could use. The only good FA signing he made pitched like a cy young and is now leaving without the giants even trying to retain him.
And the farm hasn’t developed. Fire him. The team will be bad regardless but at least they can try to build a reputation again as a team who wants to do whatever it takes to win.
Samuel
Chipsss and eveeryone else…..
Mr. Zaidi struck out not because he doesn’t have the money to pay the salaries or because he’s not a great salesperson – he struck out because his major league team and farm system ae so poor that no free agent looking for a minimum of a 5 year contract is going to get stuck on a team of utility players, mostly so-so pitchers, and a farm system with few players that are major league ready. The guy would be demanding a trade by his 2nd year. Why go through the hassle? Just interview with them so the players agent can use the Giants to run up his salary demands to other teams.
LFGMets (Metsin7)
Now hopefully they trade away Carrasco and put Peterson in the rotation, Megill in Triple A if someone gets hurt. Rotation: Scherzer Verlander Senga Quintana Peterson
jakec77
Maybe.
But I’d be ok with keeping Carrasco with Peterson in the bullpen as a longman/swing starter.
As a practical matter, every team should assume it is going to need 40 starts from pitchers other than their initial projected top 5, so might as well keep the depth.
LFGMets (Metsin7)
@jakec77 I’m really not a big fan of Carrasco, I don’t think hes that good. Pitches decent vs terrible teams. Gets obliterated by the good teams. Would rather have Peterson take his spot with Megill as insurance. The Mets can sell high on Carrasco and trade him for relief help
Mattimeo09
Sell high?
Carrasco isn’t currently worth his contract. $14M for a 36yr old starter with an ERA barely under 4. Teams won’t be interested unless Cohen pays down his contract (which shouldn’t be too much of a problem considering how much the Mets spend now.)
My question is why did Cohen bother picking up the offer if he knew he was going to go all out and bring in 3 new pitchers? Could’ve saved 14M and let Peterson take his spot.
Yankee Clipper
I assume he brought it these pitchers for two reasons:
1) Two of your pitchers are over 40
2) last season you guys got hit hard with injuries,
So, I think he’s looking to safeguard against the latter, while also providing some protection for the former for the postseason.
Lyman Bostock
Yeah for sure. Not sure why anyone who’s a Mets fan and has followed baseball in the last ten years wants to trade Carrasco. He’s a great clubhouse presence and always produces above avg results when taking the mound. Can you pencil him in for 200 innings? Absolutely not. But he’ll give you 125-150 and 10-15 wins. He’s not trash. One of the better 4th starters in all of baseball and roster worthy in fantasy leagues
LFGMets (Metsin7)
@Lyman Bostock Watching Carrasco pitch every start is like Kenley Jansen closing games. Both can’t get out of an inning without making it interesting
RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame
Kikuchi waiting to happen.
hiflew
Or Kei Igawa. Or Dice K. Or….
DarkSide830
Or Tanaka, or Darvish, or Ryu, or Ichiro…wait.
hiflew
Ryu is Korean, not Japanese.
DarkSide830
Still a posted player with no MLB experience though.
hiflew
Yeah and he has also never dated my sister, so they have that in common too. But still outside the category of Japanese League starting pitchers that I was going for.
Digdugler
Kikuchi was bad in the MLB too, that was Atkins fault.
RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame
Look..He had a great year in Japan last year..but prior to that he was a mid to high 2/mid 3 era guy, who averages 23 starts or so/year..So what does that equate to in MLB? My guess is high 3’s/low 4’s..which makes him a 4th or 5th starter in my opinion..with an upside of a borderline 3rd..with injury concerns..Is that solid? Yes. Is that worth all the hype? No. Y’all can get hyped all you want..but betcha this blows up on the Mets faces..
PS-I’m a Padres fan, and I’ve been saying for weeks to get someone proven instead of taking a flier on him.
3Men&ABibee
People who say he is an ace don’t watch NPB at all.
3Men&ABibee
I actually watch NPB. He is a solid mid rotation piece maybe. You not getting an ace but of course, they didn’t pay ace money. I watched a lot of him. Their is a chance he could be very bad over here and a very little chance he will dominate. He is not “ that guy”
VonPurpleHayes
I watch NPB as well. He was the ace of his staff for years. He put on a show in the WVC. His walk rate is a bit high, but the velocity is still up. He definitely has top of the rotation potential in the US. He’s not Ohtani. He’s not Darvish. He’s still very good. People are definitely overselling him, but you’re underselling him.
Blue Baron
@tippin: You’ve been saying for weeks? What is your experience and role in MLB front office work? Being fans gives us zero credibility.
highheat
At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if every headline from here to Spring Training was “Mets to Sign…”
DarkSide830
they seem to have a 60-man roster so it fits.
Fg-3
The Mets are outta control. Can’t blame them. It’s been 37 years. Hope they know what they are doing. Better to the Mets then the Red Sox!
Milwaukee-2208
Bet they still blow a 14 game lead
LongTimeFan1
It was 10 or 10.5
hiflew
Well 14 is something to strive for in 2023 then.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I thought Taillon and Senga would get about the same, seems about what this market should bear.
j2dap22
Imagine feeling the need to have a 350+ payroll and choke artist manager just to try to beat one team. HAAAAA…..
LongTimeFan1
No one desires a 350 mil payroll. The “need,” the “feeling” is to win the division, the pennant and World Series – and to do that right now requires a lot of spending until the farm can produce sustainable success so Mets don’t have to spend so much on high priced free agents.
big boi
How much money do they have lmao. It’s funny to compare them with the poverty franchises that have like a 30-40M payroll
giantsfan1976 2
Well, he’s off to a good start. He made the Giants swing and miss again.
VonPurpleHayes
Nice one.
richardc
And the money keeps on flowing…
Wow, Cohen definitely means business..
Good grief, they could have one NASTY rotation.
LongTimeFan1
Great time to be Mets fan. Rather amazing.
TomL
Wow, he must have wanted the Mets and not $$$ for some reason. Can’t imagine his other suitors wouldn’t have beat that offer.
seamaholic 2
Five years is LONG for a dude who’s never pitched in the majors. Actually it’s pretty long for any pitcher. Very few teams have the spending capacity to do that while realizing it may be entirely sunk cost.
TomL
Not really, same thing Seiya Suzuki got. Would have expected a lot more for a tier 1b starting pitcher in this year’s contracts. Maybe I’m biased as a bitter Cubs fan whose wealthy owners don’t spend and kick guys like Willson and Rizzo to the curb.
flamingbagofpoop
He’s not a tier 1b starting pitcher?
flamingbagofpoop
Being able to opt out at 33 probably helped.
Balk
Now all the Giants need is for the Dodgers to sign Correa, and they have officially become a AAA team in the show! Haha
gfan
Rodon to Yankees will be the final East Coast insult to Farhan
Yankee Clipper
I hope you’re right. From what I’m hearing via the “insider sources” the only holdup to Yankees signing Rodon is the 7th year. Yanks are at 5. I have a feeling it will be 6/$130 with some type of option & buyout clause.
But this begs the question: for that much money, why were the Yankees *not* all in on Senga who was amenable to playing in NY for far less?
The only logical conclusion I can come to is that the Yankees think Rodon is better and are willing to pay the premium to get him. It’s so foreign to how they’ve operated it gives me pause though.
emac22
I just wish they could recognize that pitchers from SF and the like won’t be as good in Yankee stadium.
I’m sick of getting 3’s the Yankees think are 1’s.
Rodan is a nice 3 and a great guy to help you get to the playoffs. AKA – exactly what the Yankees don’t need.
Also exactly what they shouldn’t need if their pitching development staff is viable. Develop the kids or go find real jobs.
LordD99
YC, after getting burned by signing Igawa, the Yankees over the past 20 years only target the premier-level Japanese players. Think Tanaka and Matsui, both who they signed, and Ohtani, who they didn’t.
Senga has high-end potential, but he’s definitely considered second tier because of his command and control issues that could expose him in MLB. Many talent evaluators are not sold that he can stick in the rotation in MLB. His velocity is special in Japan, allowing him to overpower many lineups, but MLB hitters can handle velocity and will spit on his secondary pitches if he’s behind. There’s definitely front-end potential in his arm, but there’s equal potential that he might be limited to a reliever. A real good reliever with closer potential, but a reliever nonetheless, and the Mets have a closer.
The Yankees won’t want to spend $15MM for a potential question mark. They’d rather spend $30MM for a known ace-level pitcher.
Senga is not the Yankees type. They will be all in on Yoshinobu Yamamoto if he’s posted in the next year or two. He’s the best pitcher in Japan, someone who would immediately front a MLB rotation without the question marks Senga brings.
Yankee Clipper
Excellent summary, thanks man!
LordD99
This only works Clipper if they go and complete the signing of Rodon. And we still don’t know who is playing LF. When is Hal returning from Italy? 🙂
User 401527550
Did you mean 6/180? That is a low aav for top starter.
ASapsFables
Un-freaking believable. At this rate, the Mets might have a $400MM payroll by opening day. That said, don’t we all wish Steve Cohen was our favorite team’s owner.
seamaholic 2
If you include luxury tax, they already do. Right around $400m. That’s currently double what the freakin’ Dodgers have on their payroll.
Danelboones
I wish he was my dad.
thecrown24
@Von I highly doubt they let Pete walk he is the face of the franchise. There is no way Cohen doesn’t keep Pete in Orange and Blue if he wants to start and finish his career as a Met he is already beloved Like David Wright was and is a matter of time before he is the next Captain.
VonPurpleHayes
It’s about reseting the Tax penalty. Cohen cannot realistically have a 90% tax penalty every year. I know he’s rich, but he would literally be losing money on the New York Mets which is pure insanity. The reason most of the deals are only for 3 years is because Cohen’s plan is to completely reset and get under the luxury tax threshold (or at least get under the highest level of it). I think the extensions of McNeil and Alonso will create a hurdle in that regard. Cohen is using the Dodgers as his model, and we just saw the Dodgers let a number of stars walk so they could reset while remaining competitive. I think the Mets will follow this path. It’s a smart plan.
mookiesboy
Cohen doesn’t need a total reset.
in 2025 about 150 comes off the books
VonPurpleHayes
@mookkesboy That’s not counting the continued tax penalties, arbitration, FA signings, trade + extensions…etc. I give the Mets about a 60% chance of getting Ohtani by season’s end.
fred-3
the Dodgers never gave out long term contracts like the Mets are doing, at least not until Mookie. That was like 8 years after ownership took over. It’s harder to dip under when you have several big contracts on the books long term.
Cohens_Wallet
@ Fred
The opening day payroll for the Dodgers in 2015 was 266 million. Your right in that the Dodgers didn’t go all out on free agents, but they did flex their financial muscles by acquiring high priced players through trade and ended the season with a 316 million dollar payroll that year. And that was in 2015!! It took another team 7 years to finally surpass that. Inflation from 2015 to now alone makes it more than fair.
AndyMeyer
Solid points Von. There is no way they can maintain this type of spending and have it be sustainable. He’s throwing so much money around but he’s not stupid
User 401527550
There are other financial reasons in play. Cohen is favored to land a casino in the Mets complex and start building the area around citi field. The Mets success will lead to other financial gold mines for Cohen.
put it in the books
Multiple opt outs, so if he’s any good it’s a 1 year deal.
Tom R
I did tell the staff in their livechat the other week that Cohen was gonna spend WAY more than they thought…
FrontOfficeStan
Was hoping the Cardinals would sign him but deep down knew it would never happen. I think he’s going to be great for you guys. What a roster.
JayRyder
The rich get richer. Who’s Next Rodon ?
Digdugler
Technically the rich got poorer as they had to pay lots of money in taxes.
WillieMaysHayes24
101 regular season wins: $350 million
Losing in the 1st round of the playoffs: priceless
Lyman Bostock
Steve Cohen happy billionaire fan owner
Let’s keep making the playoffs: awesome
jwt421
Love comments like these. Let’s ignore the fact that the Dodgers and Braves BOTH lost in the 1st round of the playoffs last year as well.
But the Mets chocked, blah, blah, blah. Nothing to do with the fact that the Braves payed over .700 baseball from July onward. You do that, you make up deficits. I’ll concede that the three game series at the end of the year in Atlanta when they just needed to win one game could be considered a choke or maybe the Braves were just the better team.
I find it amusing that three years ago it was lol Mets on every thread about them. Now it’s Cohen’s ruining baseball and money won’t buy championships. As others have pointed out, Cohen is doing exactly what he said he would do. Spend lots of money to be competitive until the farm is built up. He’s executing his plan. And if you think the small market team owners are upset, I beg to differ. After all, every new contract he executes adds more money to their pockets through revenue sharing.
Pachoo
Neither the Braves or Dodgers lost in the first round. They both had byes the first round. The Mets, on the other hand, by blowing a 10.5 game lead, had to play in the first round and lost.
jwt421
Since we are being literal, let’s unpack your response. Yes, the Mets lost in the first round of the playoffs. The Braves and Dodgers played in the second round which was their first series in the postseason and both lost to teams that finished 14 and 22 games behind them respectively. In the Braves case, games 4 and 5 weren’t even close. Of course neither one of those teams “choked” against teams they handled in the regular season. The other teams got hot which explains their losses.
I conceded that the Mets “choke” was the the 3 game series in Atlanta. But this narrative that the Mets blew a 10.5 game lead is frankly dismissive to how well the Braves played. Just look at the W-L% from June onward:
Mets Braves
June .520 .778
July .680 .692
August .633 .643
September. .577 .692
October .600 .600
The bulk of the deficit was made up in June when the Braves played almost .800 baseball. The fact is, it would be incredibly difficult for any team to have held a lead under these circumstances.
Ma4170
Some people just hate the Mets… and until their big spending the last two offseasons, I’m not sure why
10centBeerNight
If you are a NYM fan, you have to be out of your mind thrilled. But some (not all) NYM fans can find misery in even the best news. It is set to be a helluva ride in the NL east this year – on paper. All the clubs likely to have injuries and who can compensate best for them will likely triumph
Lyman Bostock
Agreed. Injuries and I’ll add unexpected underperformance. Always the two downfalls of any “good team on paper” in baseball
User 401527550
What about the unexpected over performances? Or do you expect the#1 and #19 prospects in baseball to hit .200 with no home runs this year.
Lyman Bostock
I’m a Mets fan. Was just pointing out the two things that can go wrong with a baseball team that’s good on paper. I’m excited about our prospects too!
Ma4170
As a met fan, I’m expecting pretty significant contributions from both. Really hoping they live up to their prospect status.
Rusteeze
Good day it is, now I see why it’s going to rain tomorrow lol future braves fans & staff tears when Mets are in town.
VonPurpleHayes
I would hope by now that Mets and Phillies fans know better than to count the Braves out during the offseason. Mets fans should be pumped about these moves, but the NLE is still very much Atlanta’s house until someone takes it away.
itsallbravesnation
Von, agreed. That’s why my handle is about the Braves. We (my Mets) haven’t done anything yet. Thrilled that Cohen is bridging the gap by buying the moon until the farm is providing a another source of excellence, but until we get past the Beaves, it’s their division (and the Phillies’ now as well!)
SocoComfort
Mets fans really should be more worried about winning the World Series bc it’s that or bust with the money being spent. The Phillies showed the division title has been devalued in ways and now division teams play each other less. Wouldn’t be surprised if they trash the division in the future and just go AL NL standings
Samuel
SocoComfort;
I wouldn’t be surprised if they went to divisions of 3 teams. It gives the illusion that each team is contending.
ArianaGrandSlam
Tommy John in late June.
Kershaw's Lesser Known Right Arm
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Rsox
Verlander/Scherzer/Carrasco/Quintana/Senga is a very interesting rotation. Lots of question marks surrounding health on the front three and performance on the back two but definitely the most interesting rotation the Mets have assigned since arguably Gooden/Saberhagen/Cone/Fernandez/Schourek in 1992
VonPurpleHayes
I think Senga becomes the #3. Carrasco likely gets traded. Peterson/Megill fill out the 6th spot and/or fill in for injuries.
emac22
Interesting but definately not scaring anyone.
guyonabuffalo
I’m sitting here seeing a lot of the top free agents taken off the board and wondering where Bloom’s going to get “seven, eight, nine players”….
PinstripedPride
Minor league deals with invites to Spring Training?
guyonabuffalo
Ugh, unfortunately I think you’re right.
James Midway
I thought he would get more
troutfishing
Perry Minasian you messed up. This was the move you needed to make. 15 mil a year for this guy is a steal and mark my words he will be the Mets #1 next year.
i like al conin
Not so simple, Japanese players are tough to predict. Many come here to fall flat. With limited payroll space you have to be sure. It’s telling no other team beat 15/5.
troutfishing
It’s not telling. NPB pitchers are regularly underestimated. Also, people who watch both MLB and NPB games on a regular basis can tell who will easily make the move and who won’t.
This is one of the guys who will thrive. Mets got a bargain.
i like al conin
Tell that to all the MLB teams who lost their investments on other Japanese players. You are probably right about him, but markets are efficient and telling.
troutfishing
NPB position players are arguably more risky. Pitchers have a much better track record but I will concede half of them come as experienced relief pitchers. Of course there are a few pitchers who didn’t hit the mark, but far more did and found a lot of success.
flamingbagofpoop
The guy with command issues will thrive? That will surprise me.
PinstripedPride
He could be Tanaka or he could be Irabu
troutfishing
It’s tiring to hear Japanese players labelled in such a way.
“He’s either like this guy who did good or this guy who did bad!”
He has a solid splitter and cutter which will generate a lot of swing and miss. He will tear up guys who just wanna hit bombs but might struggle against guys with a lot of patience. He can throw deceptively harder than guys might expect and generates a lot of bad contact. He sometimes has control issues and has been known to stay aggressive even with 3 balls and this can lead to above average walks.
troutfishing
Ahhh excuse me everyone if I am prickly about this.
I haven’t been this sour about a signing in a long time.
Mattimeo09
You think he’s going to leapfrog over Verlander $ Scherzer?
troutfishing
I dont think they will place him as 1st in the rotation, but by the end of the season he will arguably be their most reliable starter. He wont lead in strikeouts but likely in Wins, and WHIP. Probably with a 2.8 – 3.2 ERA.
Verlander and Scherz will both have IL stints, pitch less innings, have a ton of strikeouts but their WHIP will decline and they will be seen as lights out every once in a while and average in all the other games. Senga will just be consistently good.
VonPurpleHayes
Senga tends to walk a lot of batters. So I don’t see him having a better WHIP than the Mets aces.
troutfishing
Once mlb guys start to get an eye for his stuff I can see him walking 1 per 3 innings or so. At first though, I think he will have a lot of swing n miss alongside poor contact.
troutfishing
Also, dont get me wrong. I think Scherzer and Verlander are awesome. Good old school guys that I have loved to watch deal over the years.
I cant help but notice Scherzer getting fatigued faster. Verlander will be excellent at times but I can’t help but feel he will hit some roadblocks from time to time in Citizens Bank Park where he gives up 4 HRS to the Phillies, 7 runs and takes an IL stint for 2 weeks to nurse “discomfort”
Im am however rooting for both to do well and this not to be the case.
jwt421
@Troutfishing – nothing to back this up but I’m thinking it was less about fatigue and more about his oblique acting up again. Smoltz who may not be the best color guy, but knows pitching, commented that Scherzer wasn’t “finishing” his pitches. What I saw was fewer swings and misses in his last several starts as compared when he came back from the IL.
toptimrubies
And the Mets have still spent less on the starting rotation than the Rangers this offseason.
VonPurpleHayes
Depends if you’re looking at AAV or total.
❤️ MuteButton
Obscene
Wilmer the Thrillmer
He must’ve really wanted to play in New York. I can’t imagine any west coast team not giving him the same deal other than Oakland.
Day1Mets
As a Mets fan, I wasn’t expecting him to sign, especially for that amount (seems low). I’m sure playing with Scherzer/Verlander, the Japanese community in NY and the opt out in 2025 we’re factors for him signing.
MPrck
He’ll be nicknamed, “Sugoi Senga” after he gets the Cy Young education from Max an Ver. The Met’s an the Phils will be quite the watch next season. The haves, the small handful of super teams will leave the rest in the dust. Houston will the best in that league.
Well Detroit can sell off pieces for prospects to rebuild itself. Erod, an Baez are incredible bargains after this off season, so they might be moved too.
Unclenolanrules
Stop me if you’ve heard it.
What do you call a half a billion first round exit?
Flyby
Everyone says Cohen is losing money on the mets but they are not looking at his master plan which is to rehab/rebuild the area surrounding Citifield which includes adding a casino.
This is like what these bigger convenient stores do to bring in customers. They sell gas at a cost and maybe even at a slight loss to bring in customers to buy their overpriced “convenient” store items. He is going to have the mets and events at citifield which will bring in people to the area and well why not hit his casino and other businesses in the area.
Also for people that are complaining about why doesnt give some of this money to charities … he has given almost 1 billion dollars in charity through the steve and alex charity he is part of.
Day1Mets
Posted this below:
Cohen’s net worth is 17.5 billion. 350 million is around 2% of his net worth.
For us common folk, that’s $2 dollars for every $100 we have, practically nothing for Cohen. It’s unreal to comprehend. Also, that doesn’t take into account any team income in 2024.
Samuel
Flyby;
No doubt he’s making a joke of MLB – and up until the past week I loved the sport.
What you wrote is totally true. And I admire Mr. Cohen’s business savvy….which is legendary.
This is what pros sports are coming to. I was raised in Cleveland and have some friends there, including one in the sports media. He told me that Dan Gilbert – owner of the Cavs basketball team – talked publicly about the year they won the NBA championship with Lebron. They sold out just about every game – including the playoffs. But the payroll was so high that they lost between 1 and 2 million dollars. He didn’t care, because on the basketball floor was a print stating ‘Quicken Loans Area’. or ‘Quicken Home Loans’ – I forgot. Anyway, of course Mr. Gilbert owned Quicken Loans – an Internet and phone based home loan and refinancing business that was undercutting banks and other home financial services companies at the time. All through the year, into the playoff and beyond, his company made so much money because people around the country were calling for quotes that he viewed the Cavs as a loss-leader.
–
This is what MLB is coming to as well as most pro sports – it’s simply not profitable enough for most individual owners to have a MLB franchise. The Angels are being sold because the owner couldn’t build around the park. The Nationals are up for sale because the time and investment to run that business is taking away the owners attention from the family real estate business which is far more lucrative. This childish nonsense about the owners getting rich on their teams…..just that. Both the Cards and soon the Cubs do it because they have investments around their parks. That’s where they make their big money….same as Mr. Cohen wants to do. Other teams are owned by large financial entities – and we see the Braves owners talking about selling their team, as well the Dodgers suddenly pulling back on their payroll….wouldn’t be at all surprised if the investment company that bought them puts them up for sale – that franchise must be worth 10 times what they paid for it….buy low / sell high.
Flyby
Samuel
I agree with what you said above, but let be honest MLB knew what they were doing when they created the “Cohen” tax rate. He seems to be very competitive and he has the ability to for a lack of better words piss on the this rule if he so chooses. Would he have spent this much maybe but the fact that he can do this and basically get away with it for (atleast in his world) little punishment while driving the other mlb players nuts does not shock me. I fully expect a malicious compliance post from him.
I do think though just because his name is on the floor was a major deal because i have worked for multiple companies that have nothing to do with the team but have the naming rights they contracted for i think it was 25 years. I believe it was something like 25-30 million a year i heard but dont quote me on that and im sure its different on every stadium. It sucks for me in the end though, since my company had the name on the stadium friends and family would constantly ask “Can you get me tickets to the game or xyz show” which we do not get anything from that other than occasionaly they raffle off last minute tickets to games where no one wants to go to and xyz team just wants to fill it for tv purposes.
Samuel
Flyby;
The Padres ae doing the same thing as the Mets, but the owner isn’t directly reaping financial benefits for another entity he owns.
We’ll see how that goes.
Markets have a way of working themselves out, no matter how those in charge try to manipulate them….and the more they manipulate them the more the rich get richer and there are more poor. That’s what’s been happening in DC the past few years. The people living there that are “helping” the rest of America are finding high paying jobs and getting rich, the rest of America is suffering with inflation, finding mostly lousy poor-paying jobs, and are cutting out things they used to do and buy.
JoeBrady
and up until the past week I loved the sport.
==========================
You’re over-reacting impo. There is a decent change that neither Cohen nor Preller finish 1s. And a pretty good chance neither make the WS.
Samuel
No Joe……
I pulled away from the NFL and NBA years ago. Every once in a while I click the links above for ‘Hoops Rumors’ and ‘Pro Football Rumors’. I can’t believe all the legalities that have built up over the years. Can’t even explain them in this post.
Following pro sports is supposed to be fun. But there’s a lot of money there, and wherever there’s a lot of money the lawyers swarm to it. In a short period of time no one involved in any way recognizes the place.
The commissioner is already starting with the rules changes. It’s a gradual thing. Come see me in 5 years when the game doesn’t remotely resemble baseball.
richardc
At some point, teams should begin to lose draft picks when they go so far above the line.
Clearly, just being taxed more money isn’t really a deterrent enough for teams to continue spending crazy amounts of money. That said, I think for cases like this, if you put a limit to where if they cross it they’ll lose say a 3rd or 4th round pick and it’s slotted money, I think Owners would think twice before spending this insane amount of money..
Honestly, idk if it is good for the game or not, but the real test will be if Cohen continues paying the tax over and over the next few seasons. I imagine alot of that will have to do with whether or not he can buy his way into winning himself a championship, so I guess we shall just have to wait and see.
It’s very rare that the “offseason winners” actually win, but the Mets are reaching rarified Air with their payroll now, so who knows!?!
VonPurpleHayes
The tax penalties will have to be looked at again. The fact that this highest tier was specifically invented for Cohen and it’s having no impact, clearly means things will likely change.
PinstripedPride
Teams already are losing draft picks for certain free agents that they sign. So technically they already are penalized for going over
Yankee Clipper
Pinstripe: The mistake many people are making is thinking the penalty tax is a cap, or trying to make it into a cap through penalties. It’s severe enough because it’s *not* a cap.
Incredibly, barely a second thought is given to the tanking teams that perpetuate these cycles, cherry picking top draft picks every year, bankrolling money for competitive balance, and intentionally creating a larger gap in competition and reducing competition for FA services.
The worst part is that every single reason people use for implementing a cap has years of evidence in other sports proving that caps will not achieve what they claim. For example:
Will it even competition? No.
Will it stop super-teams? No.
Will it stop dynastic runs? No.
Will it make bad teams better? No.
Will it balance playoff appearances league-wide? No.
Will it reduce prices for fans? No.
Will it reduce salaries? No.
Will it cap salary lengths? No.
All other sports have these very problems, none of which the salary cap has resolved any better than baseball. In fact, I’d argue baseball has been more effective in achieving the stated goals of parity.
flamingbagofpoop
No they aren’t. When people try to be the technically police, they should try to be correct, first. It’s possible to go over and not give up any picks (sign free agents without the QA) and it’s possible to give up picks without going over (sign free with qo, stay under). So no, they are not, “technically”, penalized (draft picks), for going over.
pc01
Why didn’t the Mets just offer Judge $100 per for 13 years?? Because with what they’re doing, nothing is crazy.
VonPurpleHayes
Because of collusion. They agreed not to go after Judge.
User 401527550
The Yankees and Mets both make more money when both teams are good.
number1dodger
One out of every three players looks good on paper. Let’s see how well they perform on the field.
Day1Mets
Great time to be a Mets fan! For those talking about money, luxury tax, etc.. here’s some math for you:
Cohen’s net worth is 17.5 billion. 350 million is around 2% of his net worth.
For us common folk, that’s $2 dollars for every $100 we have, practically nothing for Cohen. It’s almost unreal to comprehend. That doesn’t take into account any income the team brings in.
Lyman Bostock
Exactly! Are we supposed to care how much money our teams owner spends? After they charge us $30 parking, $10 hot dogs, $12 beers and $6 gatorades $20 popcorn? No, we don’t. Especially after the Wilpons. Plus we didn’t even trade for any of these contracts. It’s literally just all Steve’s money, no prospect capital. This is amazing. If you listened to WFAN during the Wilpons, all we ever wanted was an owner like this. We finally got out wish and then more. If you’re a die hard Mets fan like me, there’s nothing anyone can say to bring you down.
See, if you live in a small market you at least get the benefit of seeing a ballgame without spending $100 per person. And you get a decent seat. So when we suffer through the Wilpons who spent like small market while charging us big market prices … a guy like Cohen buying the team is a dream come true.
Day1Mets
Indeed it is. Been a fan my entire life and haven’t seen a championship. Had season tickets in 2007 (ouch). Didn’t buy again until this year and glad I renewed for 2023. Anything can happen in a season, but all we can ask for as fans is putting a solid team together, Steve Cohen is giving us that and much more. LGM!
Samuel
“After they charge us $30 parking, $10 hot dogs, $12 beers and $6 gatorades $20 popcorn?”
Lyman Bostock;
I must watch at least parts of 500-plus MLB games a year on MLB.TV. It costs me under $150 for the season, and I get spring training games as well that I can replay games 12 months a year (I’ve been replaying some games from the 2022 season doing a little scouting the past few weeks). In the past 15 years I think I’ve been to 3 MLB games. I’ve seen maybe a half-dozen minor league games, and a lot of high school and travel team games which young relatives played….when they got older they hate watching baseball, they say it’s boring.
Sitting in a seat next to a bunch of strangers (other than then the people I’m with) waiting through endless foul balls for 3-4 hours is not my idea of entertainment. Unless I’m sitting in the OF or behind the plate I can’t see what the pitch is or the speed of it from an angle. When a ball is hit I can’t figure out where it’s going from an angle. And it’s a pain to park and walk into the park. And yes, the prices inside for anything are simply obscene.
For most people I know it was nice to go to a game once or twice in the summer – a tradition. But even they’ve cut back because it’s simply too expensive compared to other options. There are so many other venues to go to that the person can be involved most of the time instead of just sitting there waiting for something to happen.
Lyman Bostock
That’s cool, I have the MLB at bat package as a T-Mobile customer for free every year. I love pitching more than hitting so I especially love watching games at home rather than at the lark so I can see all the lurches movements.
What does that have to do with the fact that you can’t actually go to the park without spending approximately $100 per person?
JoeBrady
What does that have to do with the fact that you can’t actually go to the park without spending approximately $100 per person?
=============================
You don’t have to. Go to Stubhub, for the NYY/Philly on 4/5/23 Sec 411, row 1 (decent+ imo), and tickets are $17 each. Go to the Dollar store outside for cracker Jacks and soda. So for the tickets, fess, two sodas and a large bag of cracker jacks, you are probably $25-30. You aren’t close to $100.
User 401527550
What entertainment options are really cheaper? I can’t take my family to the movies for much less.
Samuel
JoeBrady;
LOL
Joe, you have parking, and other costs.
Years ago I drove down to San Diego from LA with a friend to see a Padres game. He had a disease and doesn’t walk well. Among other things, he has to drink water. He’s holding a bottle of water in his hand.
We hand our tickets over to the ticket taker, take 2 steps into the concourse not knowing where we’re going because we’ve never been there before. An a-hole working for the Padres confronts my friend and asks him what’s in his hand. My friend says “a bottle of water”. The attendant tells him “You can’t bring that in here”, takes it out of his hand, and pours the water on the floor. Classy. My friend mumbles: “I have to stay hydrated”. The attendant points to a stand 5 yards ahead. My friend walks up to it, gets the exact same 18 ounce bottle of water, and has to pay $6. That was around 2005. Today that bottle has to cost $12-15.
I don’t think all parks will let a person walk in with Cracker Jacks or anything else.
P.S. The Padres park looks great on video. In person it’s another thing. It’s massive to walk around, It has none of the closeness or ambiance of the parks of this generation. It’s a sterile atmosphere and like watching a baseball game in a large football stadium. I
never went back there. As bad as the one in Anaheim.
JoeBrady
P.S. The Padres park looks great on video. In person it’s another thing. It’s massive to walk around, It has none of the closeness or ambiance of the parks of this generation. It’s a sterile atmosphere and like watching a baseball game in a large football stadium.
====================================
Ahh yes, one of my favorite complaints. When I was growing up, owners built these concrete monstrosities. Olympic Stadium was built, oddly enough, for the Olympics. It seated 80,000, and they got 17,000. Philly was probably worse. Beyond ugly, and again, built for 55k, and usually drawing half of that.
I know some like Shea, but it was ugly and the bathrooms overflowed into the concourse. Owners finally smartened up and started copying the Fenway & Wrigley model. You don’t need to spend an extra $100M or so to build seats that will rarely be used.
JackStrawb
@joebrady Part of the plan. Owners aimed to drive ticket prices to the absolute maximum their markets would tolerate, so they knew the days of full, 55k stadiums even during pennant races were over. Stadiums only shrank because the aim was exorbitant ticket prices that would inevitably shrink attendance,
Yankee Clipper
The problem that many people have with spending, if you read between the lines in their statements, is they want to legislate big market teams out of the playoffs and ensure their teams rotate into the playoffs att even intervals. They call That competitive balance. It’s actually the “that’s not fair” claim.
It’s a faulty premise that doesn’t exist in any sport based on the false notion that preventing spending will even everything else out. They simply need to pick a better team to root for.
drasco036
To counter this move, the Padres will sign Carlos Correa to a 380 million dollar deal over 15 years. Because you can never have enough short stops.
Then the Mets will sign Rodón and the world will keep spinning
3Men&ABibee
Why does it seem like 4 teams signed every free agent this offseason.
mpwr2
All these revenue sharing clubs are getting an extra $10 million this year thanks to Cohen, and they still claim they are too poor to spend on free agents.
Samuel
mpwr2;
LOL
$10m gets them a utility player and 2 relief pitchers that may be in the minor leagues before the 1st of June.
And thanks to Cohen (and others) the salaries they have to pay their players are going up far more then even the out of hand, historic inflation we have in this country (which is driving up their cost of business as well).
JackStrawb
@mpwr2 In fairness, $10m gets you a decent utility guy with a 1-win projection.
angt222
Mets starting rotation is complete.
User 401527550
Are we really sure about that?
chicagofan1978
Always the same teams. These signings are getting boring
Samuel
chicagofan1978;
It’s a joke! The whole friggin’ league is a joke.
Short of worrying about an injury, why would any average MLB player sign an extension once he gets his 6 years in? Salaries go
up an obscene amount every year.
Poster formerly known as . . .
So, while Steverino antes up and Eppler makes deals and adds new faces, Cashman so far has done nothing but get the same band back together, albeit at a massively higher cost.
Better get crackin’ there, ninja.
JoeBrady
Unless you know what Cashman’s budget is, you can’t blame him. They’re already at $264M.. Hal needs to go to $300M like big market teams.
Smacky
Paying three pitchers with a combined age of 108 $111m for the 2023 season is an interesting flex. I genuinely have zero idea what their team building philosophy is other than collecting name players and paying them tons of money thinking that’ll make them preform better. It’s like in the NBA where all the GMs have to have a max-player on their team and they give max deals to dudes that aren’t worth them in hopes of them being better because they’re paid more.
Poster formerly known as . . .
Too bad starters don’t have walk-up music because this would be perfect for Senga:
youtu.be/2y6CNuffBi0?t=59
Yankee Clipper
I think they do while they’re taking warmups, right?
Poster formerly known as . . .
I dunno. This would sure get ’em going if they do.
FredMcGriff for the HOF
I wouldn’t get too excited about Brooks Raley. Rays sold high on him and they don’t get fleeced to often in trades.
Yankee Clipper
Hey, when you gonna change your moniker to “in?”
Ya know, McGriff IN the HOF….
PinstripedPride
Apparently the Yankees are about to make Rodon an offer. Lets hope it’s one he can’t refuse.
nypost.com/2022/12/10/yankees-preparing-offer-to-c…
Yankee Clipper
Get that bulldog on the slab in the Bronx!
Poster formerly known as . . .
It’s Heyman, man. Don’t get your hopes up.
Yankee Clipper
The *only * positive is that it’s a Boras client and Heyman is nothing of not:
1) inaccurate,
2) A Boras mouthpiece, which is the only time he is accurate, usually
PinstripedPride
Buster Olney did say the Yankees were working on “something big”. This could be the something big
fathead0507
Where is the upgrade? Bassitt/Walker>Senga/Quintana Degrom=Verlander.. and then they resigned Kermaeir 2.0 .. Mets spending all this $$ and not upgrading is laughable
VonPurpleHayes
They won 101 games last year, so technically they don’t need to upgrade. 101 would be nice again. To your point deGro =Verlander. Senga=Bassitt. Quintana if he plays like 2022 > Walker.
Yankee Clipper
Von, Given deGrom’s health issues, I would consider Verlander an upgrade, honestly. He was healthy for the entire year with no indication of falling out (Cy Young). DeGrom, although and equal, or better, pitcher when healthy, has not been able to remain healthy for a full season in recent seasons.
I know that’s a tad subjective given Verlander missed two years, but it seems he’s fully recovered, imho.
VonPurpleHayes
That’s fair, but I would argue those same health concerns exist with Scherzer, Verlander and Carrasco. So I’m basing it on how I think this year will go. I’d obviously say 2022 Verlander > 2022 deGrom, but I think 2023 will be a different story.
angt222
I think his name is supposed to be spelled “Koudai”.
Poster formerly known as . . .
That’s what it says on B-Ref if you click on the link, and MLB spells it that way on his stats page:
mlb.com/player/koudai-senga-673540?stats=career-r-…
but they spell it kodai in all their articles about him.
mlb.com/mets/news/kodai-senga-mets-deal
NPB spells it Koudai:
npb.jp/bis/eng/players/01005133.html
Jimbo_Jones
The new ownership turnover begins? I think expect more Cohen types
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
How do the Mets build any team chemistry when all they do is go out and buy the best players?
met man
Droid,it’s worked in the past for the Yankees(Steinbrenner)
VonPurpleHayes
The Yankees never spent like this. The Mets don’t have a single homegrown SP.
LordD99
@metman, Mets fans think that’s what the Yankees did, but in reality, the successful Yankee teams that won championships had a core of homegrown players. Their last dynasty was built around Jeter, Rivera, Williams, Posada and Pettitte. They ran high payrolls because they kept and paid their core and supplemented with pieces around them through trades and selected free agents. They traded another home-grown player in Roberto Kelly for Paul O’Neill. They traded a number of prospects for Tino Martinez. They traded other prospects for Come. None were free agents but all were good and required the team to run higher payrolls to keep them together. That’s quite different than what Cohen is doing right now. (BTW I’m not knocking what Cohen is doing at all, but simply noting the differences.)
LordD99
*Cone*.
Yankee Clipper
It’s very tough and often does not work. Yankees only did it to supplement an existing dominant core, one of whom was the leader of the team. I’m not sure about the existing chemistry on the Mets but if they don’t have an established core and strong leaders, it’s going to fall apart.
One major advantage they have is Buck Showalter who is a genius at building good teams. He was instrumental in dumping early 90’s Yankees that didn’t have a driven, winning attitude and he helped bring players in that did.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Thank you, exactly my point. Mets don’t have a real core.
As good as Showalter is, he hasn’t won the World Series.
slider32
Attention ; Steve Cohen- get to work, you don’t have the best player at every position yet!
Yankee Clipper
At least we have RF locked!
slider32
Yes, but their was a time when you had SS, 3b, 2b, 1b, starter 1, starter 2, and closer!
Yankee Clipper
Slider, that’s true, and I miss those days. Best we can hope for is a repeat of 2009.
gorav114
Those last 90’s Yankees were stuffed with homegrown talent
Carter86
You see the Mets trading any of their prospects? That’s the plan.
Carter86
Four out of eight position starters for 23 are home grown
VonPurpleHayes
They will for Ohtani.
Pachoo
And not a single starter is homegrown. The bullpen has 1 homegrown player? The mets are one of the least homegrown rosters in baseball.
Most teams are littered with homegrown players. 4 is not high.
slider32
Not really, 1b, 3b, LF, Rf, and 4 starters, and all relief pitchers except closer.
gorav114
This looks like it could be the deal of the offsesson
Rsk3228
Never thought I would be all for a salary cap, but this is ridiculous. At least the penalty for teams that spend significantly more should be higher like they lose more/higher draft picks and international money.
Carter86
Ohtani will be a Metropolitan in 2024
Carter86
The hate in the comments is delicious
msqboxer
Where does the salary tax go too? Does it get spread out to the other owners?
Chez32
Keep spending like the LAD. The MLB season is a long haul and it took a shortened pandemic season for them to win a WS. Let’s see what Cohen’s money does come next November.
SupremeZeus
Awesome. The kind of pressure this will put on the well known miserly owners will be tremendous. It is amazing they let Cohen in the club to shatter their grift. These penny-pinching clowns will be forced to join the arms race or sell.
Samuel
SupremeZeus;
“penny-pinching clowns”?
LOL
The large market teams get 3-5 times the revenue that the small market teams do. Yet the players expect to be paid the same no matter where they play.
I know that. It’s obvious to anyone with half a brain. But some people don’t have half a brain and belittle those that have to work around the inequality.
Have you ever noticed that?
JoeBrady
It’s obvious to anyone with half a brain.
============================
It amazes me that some people continue to think that the A’s and the Yankees have similar cash flow.
william-2
The Red Sox number 1 need was pitching, both starters and relievers. They lost 3 of their starters on a last place team. If this is the contract it took to get Senga I would be shocked if Bloom has a job next week. 15 a year with no posting fee, or loss of draft picks.
The Contract for Yoshida looks ten times worse today than it did yesterday. Yesterday it looked really bad, and nearly pointless. I think Yoshida has a chance to be a better than average hitter, but it doesn’t improve their power, speed, or defense. I think what they drastically overspent for is about what they had previously developing in a player like Benintendi. They got rid of Benintendi. I hope I am wrong, but Blooms’ stewardship looks terrible over the last 2 years. as this all unfolds. In a year from now we will know if this could possible more mismanaged than it looks today. If Bloom pulls off another 3 MAJOR rabbits out of the hat in trades and signings, he may be able to defend himself on an attempt at a competitive roster, but at this point, we will know it was a scramble to save his job. Let’s see if he has it in him to try to save his job.
BTW, the wrong way to build a franchise for long lasting consistent winning (like we keep hearing Bloom preach to explain his actions) is not jettisoning all your in-house talent and replacing it with inferior players. How is he going to fix this mess, jettisoning his minor league talent to patch the still existing holes everywhere?
Samuel
William;
Not all players go to a team because they have the money to pay them.
Boston is – and has been for decades – one of the top places listed in no-trade clauses as places the player can’t be traded to. Between the entitlement, lack of understanding of how the game is played and how difficult it is, and the vindictiveness of fans like you, most players find that it’s just not worth playing in Boston if they can get anywhere near the same money elsewhere.
william-2
I agree with every point you just made. So? Are you stating that is the exact reason that Bloom and the Red Sox were not able to get him? The article doesn’t state whether the Red Sox even made an offer or not. Only interest is stated. If an offer was made, what was it? Not stated. If he turned down the unknown offer, why? Not stated.
My point was that this was the target that filled a dire need (No one alive thinks pitching isn’t the greatest priority and need of the Red Sox), and this contract is reasonable given the state of things this off season. 15 per for 5. The contract we just signed with Yoshida was head scratch worthy, and although it does add an outfielder, it doesn’t actually solve some of the major issues. This does not improve our lack of power, speed, or defense in any way offensively, or defensively. My upside hope is a .300 AVG with above average OBP. I don’t see him hitting 20 HR, stealing more than a couple bases, or ever being an elite defender. I personally like the player, just do not like the price tag in light of not negotiating far earlier for a better homegrown talent that may have been salvageable at a far lower price tag than San Diego paid.
My analysis begins always with the flaws and needs, and what is done to address them. The team lacks speed, power, starting pitching, and the bullpen was a mess. My grade for the bullpen is a B so far. The rest is a D-. Not because the moves will or won’t pan out in my mind, but because nothing has been done to address the starting staff, defense or lack of power. I think we all know and can see clearly that this upcoming season as the Red Sox are currently built is a lost season, again. As is, the Sox are a worse team than the team that just endured last place. Do you disagree with any of my analysis? Do you think the Red Sox are a better team than last year?
hiflew
I am trying to remember the last time the “winner” of the offseason actually won the World Series. Maybe 2013 with the Red Sox? But it doesn’t happen often. Remember a couple years ago when the Blue Jays were going to be unstoppable? Or the White Sox before that?
NYMets4Life
This is not about “winning” the offseason. The Mets lost the most FA’s. 3/5 of the starting rotation plus nearly their entire bullpen needed to be remade. The Mets simply HAD to sign FAs or they could not field a professional team.
slider32
Agreed, but their has never been an owner that spends like Cohen, not even General George!
Samuel
“I am trying to remember the last time the “winner” of the offseason actually won the World Series.”
hiflew;
B I N G O !!!!!
I write it every year…..
Teams that win are teams that have a number of existing players that get better once the season starts. This is why I always look for teams that have a number of players with upside remaining. This year I love the Orioles and Guardians – gobs of young players that can get better in 2023 and for years after.
When teams pay retail for a name free agent, they’re expecting performance. Very seldom do those player do better than what the average fan expects. They have little if any upside. What they do have is the possibility of downside…possibly major downside. They’re older, they can suddenly hit a wall and regress. Older players get hurt more often and their injuries take longer to heal. Every year in November and December we read from large market / large payroll teams fans that “We would have done better but for the injuries”. Duh. This happens EVERY SINGLE YEAR…and 2023 will be no exception.
kodiak920
Stevie Cohen’s beautiful money.
jvent
Very good off-season for the Mets so far , hopefully they can still add Chafin and Voit to DH need some more power but the rotation is set Scherzer, Verlander,Senga,Quintana and Carrasco, so Megill and Peterson goes to the bullpen and spot start when needed, resigned Nimmo, now trade McCann for whatever and figure out who’s starting at 3b (Baty or Escobar) and catcher (Alvarez or Nido).
Chemo850
The rotation is definitely not set. They need another arm or two. The success of this team depends on two forty year olds, a brand new import from Japan, a pitcher whose career was said to be done as recently as last year and a guy who has a wild knack for the injury bug. The Mets got lucky on a lot of fronts last season to win as many games as they did, and I do not see that being the case again this upcoming season, so they better sign another arm or two for their own sake.
Bill M
For the bullpen. The rotation is absolutely set.
jmaggio76
I believe I saw a quote stating something like MLB was an $11B a year business. If, all the fees were divided appropriately, in my opinion of course, that would allow each team to spend $350M a year in payroll.
no reason why these teams are doing $40-75m a year payrolls except that they want to reap the benefits of profits, which again is nothing wrong either.
but then after that, a fan has every right to be peed off when they see their teams tanking purposely.
NYMets4Life
This is why you see stadiums are 75% empty in some cities by May. The ownership is not willing to reallocate the money back into their teams.
slider32
Teams have missed the boat, they should have retractable dome stadiums in cold weather areas by now. Sports have become a TV and streaming game. This is a muti tasking world we live in now!
Samuel
slider32;
Areas can’t suddenly build billion dollar parks with retractable roofs when they’re paying off the bonds that financed their current parks.
But I do believe that within the next 30 years all parks will have
to have retractable roofs. If this commissioner stays in office for another 10 years the leagues will expand to 16 teams each, and
there will be 6-7 rounds of playoffs as 12 teams from each league
will be in them….meaning teams will be playing into December.
tedtheodorelogan
According Joan Heymoonz, the also just singed Bob Ruthes ghostez.
Pachoo
The Met’s payroll is really kind of gross. Having that level of financial advantage over all other teams is kind of pathetic. The Met’s payroll is now $85M higher than the next highest payroll! It is $125M more than the 5th highest payroll. The average payroll of the other 29 teams is $149.5M so the Mets payroll is more than double the average of the rest of baseball ($200M higher than the average). I am using all CBT payrolls.
If you compare how much the Mets are actually paying, including the luxury tax, they are outspending the next highest spender by $145M and outspending the average MLB spending by $270M! $270M is a gross disparity.
When the Mets finish in 2nd or 3rd place in their division, it is going to be absolutely hilarious. Despite all the spending, I think the Mets are only slightly better than last year, but given the player ages, they could be worse. All the spending was just replacing players who left, or keeping their own free agents. I think the Senga signing looks like the only real upgrade (Senga replacing Walker). The average age of the Mets rotation next year will be 35.8 years old lol (30, 34, 36, 39, 40).
Yankee Clipper
This is what baffles me. I read statements like this all the time and truthfully, there’s nothing wrong with the sentiment, but I don’t understand the ancillary point.
If the Mets aren’t going to win, who cares if they spend $1B in payroll? They should be able to pay whatever they want to whomever they want. It’s a business. Perhaps I am wrong for my view on this, but it strikes me as such an odd concern to be distracted with how much money a team spends to come in 3rd place.
Pachoo
it’s an issue because of how much of a financial advantage one team has over everyone else to cover up any mistakes they make. Compare that to teams like the Ray’s, Mariners, Indians, etc. who can’t spend anywhere close to that stratosphere, are likely more smartly run as an organization, but can’t compete on a level playing field because the Mets can simply outpsend them.
The lack of payroll cap has ruined the competitiveness ot the big five European soccer leagues. Bayern Munich has won the German Bundesliga for like 12 straight years because they outspend every team in the way the Mets are. Same has happened in the soccer leagues in Spain, Italy, France and England. Every single season 90% of the teams have no realistic shot of winning from day one. It has ruined the competitiveness of those leagues.
Yankee Clipper
Okay, but competitiveness isn’t fixed by capping the top. We don’t know what the Rays, etc can or can’t spend. We do know they can all get much closer to $150MM-$200MM without breaking a sweat because of the revenue shares they are given every year and many don’t even come remotely close.
Regardless, my point is: trying to fix this issue by looking at only one side, without considering the foundation of the entire problem only leads to more problems – tanking teams are not fixed by any cap. They’re no more competitive.
Every other sport with a cap has all the same problems everyone espouses the cap will fix: super teams; dynasties; high salaries; ridiculous contracts; high prices; competitive imbalance.
So, what happens when we cap it, but a team is still way more talented than another, which happens anyway, and there is still a competitive imbalance that cannot be overcome because of the cap? You create more imbalance. Or, do we go kickball rules and draft one-by-one every year?
Pachoo
I take solace in looking at the Mets roster, especially their lineup. The position players are pretty underwhelming for a $350M payroll. The rotation is talented but older than hell (Senga is the youngest rotation arm and will be 30 when the season starts). The bullpen is equally as underwhelming.
If I had to bet, I’d place money that the Mets don’t win their division this year.
vjwhitmore
funny you say underwhelming on a team that lineup is virtually the same as last year and won 101 games.
Alonso – RBI champ
McNeil – batting champ
Pachoo
The Mets lineup is severely lacking power for a $350M payroll team. It’s also old.
Pachoo
BTW, the 2022 Mets had one of the luckiest seasons in terms of wins / losses according to Fangraphs baseruns statistic. Their play should have resulted in 95 wins, not 101, so they had 6 extra lucky wins, which was the highest of any team. The Braves were expected to win 101 games so had no lucky wins while the Phillies should have had 90 wins so had 3 unlucky losses.
vjwhitmore
you say lack of power, to a certain degree, they were 15th in Hrs (guess the other lower 15 had even less power),
2nd in OBP @.332, – Braves were 9th & Phillys 11th
6th in rbi’s – Braves were 4th & Phillys 7th
Also take into consideration Braves were 2nd in striking out (1498), Phillys were 18th ( 1363), the Mets were 28th (1217)
those stats are for the entire MLB.
Pitching-
7th in era – Braves were 5th & Phillys were 18th
4th in runs allowed – Braves were 5th & Phiilys were 15th
1st in So’s – Braves were 2nd & Phillys were 10th
slider32
Yes, and their is still a lot of parity in the major sports NFL, MLB, and to some extent NBA. The Dodgers won 111 games last year, but they lost 7 out of 8 to the Pirates.
Samuel
Giving the Padres a pass?
Yankee Clipper
Pachoo: I found this to be a really good read on the parity of MLB and why financial disparity doesn’t have the impact people think it does, if you’re interested:
cbssports.com/mlb/news/why-major-league-baseball-d…
Pachoo
Thanks for the article, interesting read.
vjwhitmore
Granted a ‘Luxury tax” on big spenders to level out some of the market is good, BUT, there should also be a tax penalty for clubs and owners that do bare minimal for their respective team.
slider32
What I really hate is when a team like Tampa is playing at home, and the opposing team has more fans. The Rams and Chargers are in the same boat. That should signal the owner that he should move the team.
deej
Headline: NY Mets to sign EVERYONE. Cohen thinks a 1 billion payroll should be enough to beat the Braves.
sliderwithcheeze
Smart move to have a 9 man rotation. Should keep everyone fresh
Bill M
I count 5 with one spot starter and one potential starter who was injured most of last year and will likely start the season in the bullpen. Extremely smart in today’s game.
jvent
Might be the best deal of the off season so far lol, still think they need a power hitting DH, I would go for Luke Voit he shouldn’t cost much
JackStrawb
@jvent Seems like the Mets found the only two fairly cheap MOR starters this offseason.
They still need a top starter if they want to be taken seriously, though. One of Max and Verlander is going to be ineffective or hurt by October, based on how the Mets used their starters in 2022.
Eppler seems to believe old, or old and injured pitchers can pitch 200 innings and still have something left for the postseason if he just crosses his fingers.
bryan c
Is the offense 1927 Yankees good? Nope
Is there a chance of injury? Sure
Could it be that guys that had career type years last year don’t this year? Of course
But no one can see the future. No one has a crystal ball. We can just use our brains and come to a conclusion. Guess what. The Mets are really good on paper now. Need one more bullpen arm and go to war.
I’m done arguing now. I prefer to have an owner like Steve Cohen running my entertainment. Best of luck to all. Only one team will hoist a trophy. It may not be my team that does and that’s really ok. It’s literally just for entertainment and I will will be entertained every year that Mr Cohen runs this thing.
FenwayFanatic
Can’t Bloom do anything right? My new favorite pitcher is a Met. Congrats well played.
AgeeHarrelsonJones
This portends another Met signing: Rodon! Bring him on Stevie-O!
JackStrawb
Surprisingly cheap by AAV, but it’s still too bad unless this is a precursor to signing Rodon and dealing Carrasco to make the AAV wrt Senga balance out.
If they’re not adding Rodon, the Mets appear to have pulled up short of building a serious contender for the World Series by about 4% of total payroll in 2023.
Bizarre.
yankeeswin28
All the moves the Mets have done are they even better ?
AgeeHarrelsonJones
Given all the impending FA departures they needed to make multiple moves just to field a team, let alone compete in the NLE. We wont know if they’re “better” toward the end of next season
The Saber-toothed Superfife
Wtf?
My mind is the one that is injured now……
CarverAndrews
As a Phils fan, my fear is that Senga will be better than the guy that we signed in Taj Walker. I really like the potential for Senga’s fastball / forkball combo and far preferred the risk and upside for him rather than Taj.. Given some refinements to his repertoire and approach, Senga could be quite the upside play at a cost that reflects the challenges of trying to guess how someone’s work translates from the NPB to MLB.
Hope that I am wrong on that one.
goob
I’m still surprised that the bidding (apparently) didn’t exceed MLBTR’s estimate.
Or maybe it did and Senga just preferred Boston?
baseballteam
News bulletin: Mets claim Japanese translator off wavers….
whyhayzee
Heyman’s an idiot.
Please stop listening to him, MLBTR.
angt222
Mets jersey number needs to be #34 so Mets can advertise him as “S3NG4”. Something I read, not my idea.
Bill M
He was indeed wearing #34 at the press conference today