December 29: Segura’s deal has a third year team option, per Craig Mish of the Miami Herald. It’s not clear what kind of option that is, but Mish provides the specific financial breakdown. Segura will make $6.5MM in 2023 and $8.5MM in 2024, then there’s a $10MM option for 2025 with a $2MM buyout.
December 28: The Marlins are in agreement on a deal with Jean Segura, as first reported by Héctor Gómez of Z101 (Twitter link). Once finalized, it’ll be a two-year, $17MM contract for the CAA client.
Segura has spent the last four years in the NL East. The Phillies acquired the right-handed hitting infielder over the 2018-19 offseason in a deal that sent J.P. Crawford and offloaded the final season of Carlos Santana’s contract to the Mariners. He spent four seasons as an everyday middle infielder in Philadelphia. He hit free agency at the start of this offseason when the team bought him out for $1MM in lieu of a $17MM option.
As he has for much of his career, Segura provided consistently effective work on both sides of the ball. He hit between 10 and 14 home runs in all three full seasons while stealing between nine and 13 bases in each year. In each of the past three seasons, he’s put up slightly above-average numbers at the plate. Since the start of the 2019 campaign, the two-time All-Star owns a .281/.337/.418 line through just under 1800 trips to the dish.
Segura has typically been a durable and reliable presence in the lineup, topping 125 games in all eight full seasons from 2013-21 and playing in 57 of 60 games during the abbreviated 2020 campaign. That wasn’t the case in 2022, as he fractured his right index finger on a bunt attempt at the end of May. That required surgery and sidelined him through early August, but Segura’s rate production this year was in line with that of prior seasons.
The 32-year-old (33 in March) hit .277/.336/.387 over 387 plate appearances. He’s not one to draw many walks or hit for huge power, but he makes plenty of contact. Segura only struck out in 15% of his trips to the plate and has posted a lower than average strikeout percentage in every season of his career. He put the bat on the ball on 83.2% of his swings this past season, a rate that’s nearly six percentage points higher than the league average. Those contact skills are certainly appealing to a Marlins club that entered the offseason seeking hitters with low strikeout rates.
It’s the first notable roster move of the winter for Miami general manager Kim Ng and her staff. They’ve sought to upgrade a lineup that ranked 28th in MLB in run scoring but hadn’t made any moves to bolster the offense thus far. Segura adds a potential top-of-the-lineup threat for first-year manager Skip Schumaker.
While he’s a solid addition to the batting order, it’s not as ideal a fit positionally. Segura played shortstop for the early part of his career but posted below-average defensive marks there in 2019. After that season, Philadelphia signed Didi Gregorius and kicked Segura to the other side of the bag. He’s played almost exclusively second base for three years, with just 21 starts at third base and two starts at shortstop (all in 2020) over that stretch. Segura has manned shortstop for only two innings in the past two seasons.
Since moving to the keystone, the Dominican Republic native has rated highly with the glove. Defensive Runs Saved has credited him a cumulative six runs above average for the past three years, while Statcast has pegged him 13 runs above par. Second base is his best position at this stage of his career, meaning it appears young star Jazz Chisholm Jr. will kick over to shortstop. While Chisholm came up as a shortstop prospect, he’s played mostly second base in MLB. Like Segura, he didn’t log a single inning outside of second base in 2022. In a fairly small sample of 329 2/3 innings at shortstop from 2020-21, Chisholm rated as a below-average defender by both DRS and Statcast.
Moving Chisholm to shortstop could signal a reduction in playing time for Miguel Rojas. Regarded as Miami’s unofficial team captain, Rojas has been the primary shortstop in South Florida for five straight seasons. He’s a quality defender but hit only .236/.283/.323 across 507 plate appearances in 2022. That lackluster offensive showing could be partially explained by injury, as the 33-year-old underwent surgery to repair cartilage damage in his right wrist at season’s end. Rojas is under contract for $5MM next season and reportedly drew some trade interest from the Red Sox earlier this winter. Miami could certainly keep Rojas around as infield depth — particularly if they deal third baseman Joey Wendle instead — but the Segura signing could make them more willing to entertain trade offers on their incumbent shortstop.
Segura was one of four players and two position players (the other being Jurickson Profar) from MLBTR’s pre-offseason top 50 free agents who hadn’t yet agreed to terms. The reported contract is a near-match for the two years and $18MM which MLBTR had projected. The deal’s specific financial breakdown remains unreported, but evenly distributing $8.5MM salaries would bring Miami’s estimated 2023 payroll to $103MM, as calculated by Roster Resource. That’d be a fair bit north of this past season’s $79MM Opening Day mark.
How much money Ng and her staff still have to play with isn’t clear, though the club could continue to look for ways to address the offense. Center field is an obvious area of need, while Miami may add behind the plate or at the corner infield. The Marlins’ stable of quality young pitching gives them the chance to turn to the trade market for offensive help, which now figures to be the course of action after tonight’s dip into free agency.
Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.
OK there is a surprise. If you gave me 15 choices of where he would end up, I don’t think the Marlins would have made the cut.
Thought he would be heading to one of the Sox teams.
I figured he would go to the Braves for 6 years/$18 million.
Padres made the same offer.
Even the Marlins have signed more free agents than the Braves
SAD!
The Braves have a core locked up for years so no need to go crazy signing players. Braves are a easy play off team don’t have to go over spend like the other teams have had too
Even the Marlins have signed more free agents than the Braves
SAD!
==========================
Poor Braves fan. They’ve only finished 1st five years in a row, with only one WSC.
SO SAD!
No team in the NL East will be an “easy playoff team” in 2023. One of the Mets, Braves, and Phillies will be a 3rd place team. There is no guarantee that whichever team is in 3rd will have a better record than both 2nd place teams in other divisions. Yes, the Phillies made the World Series, but they didn’t even make the playoffs until the last series of the year and it took a Milwaukee collapse for even that to happen.
Should have pushed all the chips in on deGrom
Parity with AL West
@Benjamin101677 Exactly. The Braves like the Astros have the luxury of focusing on winning a 3- or 4-round postseason. The Mets have been much more incoherent in this regard. Their offseason reads like that of a team trying to win the division at the expense of getting anywhere once they make the postseason, what with having the oldest #1 and 2 in baseball.
In short, they look like a good bet to repeat the failures of 2022.
The Braves are, of course. Less so the Phillies.
Just read an article saying he was a perfect fit for the white Sox. Well I didn’t read the article itself. That was just the title.
Yeah never would of guess he would of signed with the Marlins.
How much woodof could have a woodofchuck chuckof if a woodofchuck could have chucked woodofs two?
The Wood Chuck only cares about how much “wood” he can “chuck” it’s a time old and time honored tail! What came first? The Wood Chuck or the Wood?
@Lord, perhaps the White Sox touched base with Seguras camp but Reinsdorf balked at that “lofty” price.
Me as well, this is surprising.
Maybe my wish/dream of the White Sox trading for Jazz Chisholm is on the horizon?? I know I know, I will keep dreaming.
Where did this obsession by White Sox fans over Jazz come from? It’s weird af
Wow, this is a good signing by the Marlins. Segura is staying in the NL East.
Might have been a nice add for the Dodgers. Tough to see a quality veteran left with no choice but o play for a bottom dweller in a tough division.
Marlins still have lots of holes to fill on offense.
I can’t believe he wouldn’t want to try to play for a contender after going to the world series last year? I’d take a paycut for October baseball, but that’s me, money isn’t real
It might not have been just the money. It may have been the playing opportunity. I think I would prefer starting 150 games for a 4th place club over starting 50 on a first place club. Especially on a one year deal because he will need to sign next year as well.
It could also be the proximity to his family in the DR, but playing time is probably the bigger factor.
The article says it’s a two-year contract, hiflew.
Yes it does now. It didn’t have the details when I originally commented.
You can say that because the money isn’t sitting right in front of you.
@Hippyripper: But you don’t know what his market was. He may not have had interest from contending teams or any other offers.
Or Baron, the interest from the contending teams just didn’t offer $17M. It’s pretty simple for us to say all these guys want to play for a contender—we get that, I’m sure they do.
But if the offer from the Marlins was $17M and the best offer from a contender was (guessing) $14M —the difference is still $3M. At that level, to our eyes, seems minute compared to wearing a wear, but they all have egos and want to play every day and when it comes down to it–$3M is still a lot of money.
This is true but track record, market, “depth” of the position, I can’t foresee any contender not showing some level of interest if they have a need at second.
I think this will be a really solid signing for the Marlins, of course the Marlins are not going anywhere again this season…
Marlins said they wanted to add more contact to their lineup. Guess they just weren’t in a rush.
Surprising for sure but possibly setting up for an upcoming trade.
If Marlins falter and Segura rakes he’s also a good trade candidate going forward.
2 year guarantee seems crazy
Why does “2 years seem crazy”? He’s only 32 years old, has an impressive track record, and aside from last year, typically plays in at least 140 games.
Because his offense is clearly declining with age and I don’t recall him being great defensively.
Another clunker for NG!
Nothing will ever beat the Avisail Garcia deal.
You’re insane if you think this is a bad deal. As long as he is the starting second baseman he immediately becomes their second best infielder after Jazz. And something tells me he took a decent pay cut to sign with them.
I don’t think it was a “pay cut” to play with Miami but it’s definitely a solid deal.
Apparently they’re going to play him at third.. I don’t know why a 4th place team would pay an old guy with almost no bat left that much guaranteed money to play a corner position.
Why is an above average bat for each of 2020, 2021, 2022 “almost no bat left”?
As for “that much guaranteed money” it’s about the lowest AAV for which you can get a player with a chance at being a 2 win regular. In addition, the Marlins can deduct a mil or two from the 2/17m thanks to the value of their 2025 option.
Hahaha he is playing 3rd base hahahaha
This aged poorly. Although I would’ve agreed with you at the time!
What? This is a great contract for Segura, especially in the crazy market this offseason has brought
With the Phillies buyout of his option, he gets what MLBTR predicted.
Yes, and the predictions have been consistently below what the market paid this year
One of their best contracts. Not that it’s a high bar but this one definitely cleared it.
They need to clear Wendle out now.
Not enough Abs to go around for Jazz, Segura, Rojas, Groshans, and Berti
They need to clear Wendle out now.
=================================
It depends on what the RS do with their infield, but if they plan on Story at SS and Arroyo at 2nd, then I’d be real interested in Wendle as a 400-AB UIF.
Or just send us Jazz for Devers..
How is this a clunker? Care to explain?
It isn’t really. They need a CF but there is none. I said that half jokingly.
Kim Ng hasn’t done much right in Miami. That is a fact. I don’t see much upside in playing a 33 year old at 3B when Groshans is a prospect that needs an opportunity. As far as pure dollars go—it’s not a bad deal. Though we don’t know what Segura even looks like at 3B or if he’ll play that well.
Segura played 179.2 innings at third base in 2020 and got positive ratings in every statistical category. Not great, but good enough: 1 OAA, 1 DRS, 12.2 UZR/150, etc. Since 2019, he ranks 4th among all second basemen in Outs Above Average.
I get the sense that you’re in the anti-Ng camp. I don’t know what you or anyone expected any GM with a bottom-tier payroll to accomplish in two years.
After his first offseason at the helm in Chicago, Theo Epstein’s Cubs lost 101 games. In his second year, they lost 96 games. It took him five years to build a championship team, and he had mid-range payrolls in both of those first two seasons.
Ng didn’t do anything for the Marlins until Jeter was gone. This offseason is the only one she has been calling the shots.
This was a great deal on her part. Most likely scenario is Segura will play 2B, Rojas plays SS and Chisholm is moved to CF.
BStrowman8 hours ago
It isn’t really. They need a CF but there is none. I said that half jokingly.
======================
Then please disregard my remarks, though I still wonder why so many people upvoted it.
IRT Ng, it is too early. Garcia & Soler were pretty bad.
Question for Marlins fans-Does Ng get credit for the Alcantara extension, or does Jeter? It’s one of the best-timed extensions in history. Just before CY/8 WAR season. You’d have burned thru most of the $56M before he got thru arbitration.
What did I expect of NG?
20 some games from the pandemic year doesn’t confirm that Segura is a plus 3B with the glove. D metrics are useless for a small sample size like that. He’s a fine player for this cost though.
Ng? She made horrible signings and trades last year. I don’t like her work at all and the burden is on her to change that. I don’t see a lot of positives occurring. She wasn’t building up assets in trades. She was giving some away. Like the Wendle deal. Puzzling for a non contender to give up a decent prospect like Misner for a 2 year utility guy like Wendle. The Garcia/Soler signings. The stallings deal that has tanked. The Sulser/Scott trade. She hasn’t done well.
We’ll see if things change this year but I believe she is behind the curve as far as FO’s go.
I don’t particularly care about the Marlins.
I hope the O’s make a trade with them again for a SP. I think Elias and Co. are 10x better than that FO and would pull off a favorable deal.
Ng worked in the MLB office. She hadn’t been in side a front office since 2011. The landscape of baseball has changed drastically since then. I’ve seen nothing that makes me believe she’s caught up with that.
Your replies suggest to me that you have a problem with a woman heading an MLB team, particularly now that you reveal that you’re not even a Marlins fan, but rather an Orioles fan.
The impression is strengthened by your attempt to denigrate her qualifications (“she worked in the MLB office”).
She was a senior vice president of baseball operations, and among her duties was overseeing MLB’s international operations. To claim that she’s lost touch with the game because she spent 9 years in that job after spending four years as Cashman’s assistant GM with the Yankees and 10 years as the Dodgers’ vice president and assistant GM is ludicrous.
@JoeBrady
First, for Ng, it’s not too early to bash her and she has been taking a pasting in Miami from the fan base and some of the media. Here is the gist of it. 1) Since Jeter was gone, Ng failed miserably at the trade deadline. And then she has followed it up with practically zero activity of note this offseason until this Segura signing after she’s being bashed down here relentlessly by fans and some local media. 2) In her time here (since 2020-21 offseason) she said her first task was to improve the bullpen, but every single bullpen piece that she brought in failed. The bullpen is worse than when she arrived. 3) She refused to extend Brian Anderson, and lucked into him being injured the last two seasons to justify that. She traded away assets for Wendle to replace Anderson, which made no sense. 4) Despite the Marlins having a surplus of young corner OFs (Sanchez, de la Cruz, Bleday, Burdick, Encarnacion, etc.) she signed two corner OFs when she only needed one veteran one. One of them is more suited as a DH, when she already had a DH as well. She ended up signing both Garcia and Soler. One was enough and the other money could’ve gone to signing or trading for a Closer (the bigger need) such as Kimbrel, Jansen, Melancon, etc. Garcia stunk it up, Soler got hurt, and our bullpen continues to show that there is no lead that is safe once the SPs are out of the game after the 6th, 7th or 8th innings – absolutely no lead safe. 5) She has had some moments of plus occurences, but those have been few and far between. I’ll mention one below since it’s related to your question about Alcantara. But I’ll also give her another plus when she suckered Houston into giving us Bryan de la Cruz for Yimi Garcia – one of our implosive disasters that was tried as a Closer. Even though it’s still early to see what de la Cruz is, he’s already given us more value than Garcia gave us or the Astros. We hope that continues.
Now to your Alcantara question: She can be commended for being part of the team that signed him to that extension. Her credit for that is limited though because, while extending him was an excellent move, the genius involved with Alcantara was getting him and Zac Gallen from the Cardinals for Marcell Ozuna. That credit goes to Gary Denbo because, if everyone remembers, Jeter and Co. was letting him negotiate the Stanton deal that failed with the Giants and Cardinals because Denbo knew the Yankees who were also in the bidding, so Ozuna was the follow-up trade with the Cardinals done by Denbo. They then stopped Hill doing trades on his own after the Yelich fail. In short, Ng doesn’t get much credit for Alcantara because she was there to chose the color of the house after Denbo and Jeter built it when it comes to Alcantara – even “Yes Man” Hill deserves more credit for that even though he wasn’t around for the extension.
For me, this should be Ng’s last season in Miami if she doesn’t come through. She’s gotten enough time…period. She’s had enough failures.
I have no issues with a woman. Please get out of here with that crap. Grading her on a curve because she is a woman is a problem.
I’ve seen her lose trades to better FO’s and make bad deals. You think valuation techniques and analytics in FO’s haven’t drastically changed since 2011? They certainly have.
I’ve watched no marlins position players get better after going to Miami.
Soler, GArcia, Stallings, Wendle—all worse than they were before going there.
She changes that this year and I’ll admit I was wrong but that has to actually materialize. I’ll bet it doesn’t.
@Fink Ployed
I’m a Marlins fan and rooted for Ng when she was hired because I was thrilled that, the master of self-preservation, Mike “Yes Man” Hill was finally gone. I bought in when she pointed out that our bullpen needed to be vastly improved and gave her benefit of the doubt with her additions until I saw how all of them failed – Bass, Cimber, Floro, Scott, etc. etc. etc. all of them starting in 2021 and continuing in 2022. I gave her credit for the trade of one of the garbage in Yimi Garcia for Bryan de la Cruz. Gave her credit for the few good moments, but couldn’t ignore the bad decisions (like Garcia, Soler, Wendle, her bullpen, Sanchez to CF, de la Cruz to MiLB to start the season, sending the message to Brian Anderson on her Day 1 that he was not part of her plan, etc.). Then, to top everything off, she had the failed 2022 trade deadline – despite trading away her biggest bullpen mistake in Bass for a prospect. At the deadline, I knew and stated many times, like some Marlins fans did in many places, that she had to come through this offseason and the Winter Meetings, or the call for her firing would start. And what did she do? She shows up to the Winter Meetings after guaranteeing so many moves because the Marlins are in “win now” mode, and she has time to give a speech for the opening ceremony of the Winter Meetings, cast a no-brainer HoF vote for Fred McGriff, and have her interviews with MLB Network and multiple media outlets, but not one single trade or relevant free agent signing. As easily predicted, she’s been getting slammed by the fan base and some of the local media…in the very least, the questioning of the inactivity.
That whole narrative you’re trying to spin about her being bashed because of her gender isn’t flying. Our fan base rooted for her, especially since she replaced a complete bonehead in Mike “Yes Man” Hill. Kim Ng has simply done a poor job and has not placed herself in a good look with so many promises, poor decisions along the way, and the very little activity during the trade deadline and Winter Meetings while finding time for her self-promotion efforts with interviews and appearances. I’m sorry, but there is no GM that keeps their job after 2 going on 3 years of this – regardless of gender. I sure as heck know that many male GMs would be fired if, after this, they have another season of decline and failure…which is what she’s headed to. If this team goes through another year of failed effort and no real progress or hope under her leadership, if she remains for the 2024 season, if anything can be said of her gender, it’s that she would’ve kept the job because the Marlins fear the PR hit related to her gender because the facts are, her performance warrants a firing if she doesn’t right the ship this year.
“In her time here (since 2020-21 offseason) she said her first task was to improve the bullpen, but every single bullpen piece that she brought in failed. The bullpen is worse than when she arrived.”
The Marlins’ bullpen had an ERA of 5.50 in the season before Ng was hired. In 2022, the Marlin’s bullpen posted an ERA of 4.15
“And then she has followed it up with practically zero activity of note this offseason until this Segura signing after she’s being bashed down here relentlessly by fans and some local media.”
It’s December. The last trade of the previous offseason, the Dodgers trade of Pollock for Kimbrel, took place on April 1, 2022. You seriously think a professional in an MLB front office should make moves based on the gripes of fans and sportswriters?
“She refused to extend Brian Anderson, and lucked into him being injured the last two seasons to justify that.”
Sure. It couldn’t possibly be that she based that decision on input from the manager, coaches, physicians and conditioning staff. Just luck.
“She traded away assets for Wendle to replace Anderson, which made no sense.”
She was just lucky not to extend Anderson, whose physical condition her staff knew about, but no doubt it’s her fault that she didn’t know before she acquired Wendle that he would injure his hamstring three times.
Wendle was 12th in fWAR among all third basemen the year before Ng acquired him.
“For me, this should be Ng’s last season in Miami if she doesn’t come through. She’s gotten enough time…period. She’s had enough failures.”
Yeah, three years is more than enough time to make a contender out of a low-budget team that had two consecutive last-place finishes before the fluke half-season of 2020.
“I have no issues with a woman.”
The fact that you’re so passionate about the GM of a team you admit to not caring about is telling.
Lol
I guess all those years I bashed Jeff Bridich in Colorado were driven by my disdain of white males too?
Clown.
@Fink Kim isn’t horrible but she hasn’t done great. The Avisail Garcia was so stupid. He’s not that great and had like 2 good years and she gives him 4 years $53 million. Then signs Jorge Soler to another perhaps even worse deal although he’s a much better player. That offense is extremely weak right now and so far her only move is to sign an aging Segura. If she botches the trade of pitching for position players then she should be sacked.
@Fimk Ployed
Seriously, you’re sticking with ERA for bullpen to compare….and comparing to a bullpen that played 60 games the season before her arrival (2020)? Heck, just conveniently ignore how many blown leads her bullpen has given up in 2021 and 2022. Go dig up that stat. All of us Marlins fans remember the pain of every single one of those games seeing our team leading into the late innings and our bullpen, that Kim Ng put together, blowing lead after lead after lead after lead. But of course….stick to ERA…not blown leads because bullpens are about ERA – not about holding leads.
With Brian Anderson, she hadn’t even gotten to know him when she made her statements. She literally just introduced herself to the team and rebuffed the personnel when they mentioned that they were in discussions with Anderson about an extension. She was the one that shot it down. The rest of the organization was going through with it. Know your facts before commenting. She lucked out that he got hurt to make her look right. All of them were already discussion an extension with him and put it on pause until they hired a new GM. She shot it down despite no one else agreeing. Again, know the facts.
And as for WAR blah blah blah, you’re talking to someone that played the game into Division I and uses the eyeball test to watch baseball. I don’t watch my baseball on Excel or spreadsheets or Access databases. I never walked up to the plate or played on the field with a laptop in my hand. Wrong crowd here for WAR blah blah.
So, you think GMs that have failed efforts, and lead the team backwards for 3 years don’t get fired?
And if you think 2020 was all fluke, you clearly didn’t watch Marlins games. It was a fluky season no doubt, but there were pieces that allowed them to play well for 60 games – something they have failed to do under Ng. Also, the one trend that has continued that has been a difference maker from that season to the last two seasons is still in place. Many of the Marlins 2020 games were 7 innings. In 2021 and 2022, they haven’t had that luxury as they play the 8th and 9th innings…which is where we have lost a lot of games in the last two seasons. Yes, 2020 was fluky, but the Marlins trend of holding leads through 7 innings is still there – which makes that not a fluke.
Exactly @Highest_IQ
@Fink Ployed is ignoring Ng’s performance to the point it makes you wonder if he isn’t her PR guy.
Any idiot can see that she’s done a poor job. I wanted her to succeed because I want the Marlins to succeed, but she hasn’t done the job…period. And locally, our fan base has realized that it’s time to move on and some of our local media has as well – even the nicer local media personalities, in the very least, questioning her inactivity.
“I’m sorry, but there is no GM that keeps their job after 2 going on 3 years of this – regardless of gender.”
What a load of crap.
Rick Hahn presided over seven consecutive losing seasons in Chicago before the White Sox made the postseason. Before Hahn got the job, Ken Williams took four years to build a playoff team, the 2005 championship team, after which the Sox made the playoffs once in the next six years before Hahn took over, with Williams getting bumped upstairs.
Mike Rizzo presided over of four losing seasons with the Nats, three in last place, before taking them to the playoffs.
Jerry Dipoto’s Mariners failed to make the playoffs for seven years before they finally got in in 2022.
Before Dipoto took over, Jack Zduriencik held the job for seven years with the fifth-worst record in baseball, including multiple last-place finishes.
I could go on, but there should be no need.
Who said anything about whiteness . . . that is, before you just did?
@Fink Ployed
I realized that I forgot to address your comment about Kimbrel. So your defense is that MLB front offices shouldn’t make moves based on fans and sports writers? While agree that a front office shouldn’t front offices should make moves that are so obvious that they should be made.
Obvious: Marlins had a surplus of corner OFs, so they only needed one veteran bat at those positions – not two.
Obvious: The Marlins bullpen can’t hold leads and every single guy in the bullpen can’t handle the Closer role. Bring in a guy that has a proven track record of being a Closer- Kimbrel, Jansen, etc.
Obvious: When you have limited funds to work with, don’t spend a great deal of it on two players at surplus positions. Don’t do it at corner OF or DH last year with Soler and Garcia, and hopefully she didn’t do it this year with Segura in the middle infield, when you have a major need at another position – in our case, Closer. I’m hoping the money spent on Segura doesn’t prevent us from getting a Closer – even a risky one like Aroldis Chapman or Alex Reyes. If it does, the Segura questions will happen , even though it looks like a good signing.
Hey you hit it right on the nose Floyd. Women are a protected class and are exempt from criticism. Anyone who disagrees is a hater.
@Fink Ployed
Load of crap? So you’re saying that no GM has been fired after 3 years or less of poor performance?
I bet my list is longer than yours.
bravo
“no GM that keeps their job after 2 going on 3 years of this”
That’s what you said. “No GM.” I just named five.
Okay, show me your list.
Seriously, I want to see your long list of GMs who got fired after two years.
Highest_IQ, I’m not saying she’s done great. I’m saying that two years is an awfully short leash for a GM.
Ng worked in the MLB office. She hadn’t been in side a front office since 2011.
=========================
That was my concern as well. She apparently did a good job with LAD handling arbitration cases. But I’m not sure it progressed from there. so that, combined with no FO experience for 10 years, in an industry that changes as much as BB does, makes her suspect imho.
The impression is strengthened by your attempt to denigrate her qualifications (“she worked in the MLB office”).
===========================
I’m not a Marlins fan, but I had the same concerns. 10 years away from the game, in a game that changes this rapidly, seems like an issue to me.
And the Garcia & Soler signings seemed like amateur hour to me, and I said so at the time. Soler’s career bWAR, from 2014-2021, was 3.5. And outside of 2019, with the juiced ball, his career bWAR was exactly -0-.
Garcia’s career WAR was 10.9 from 2012-2021. That’s 1.9/650 PAs. And most of that was 2019 & his walk year.
These are two pretty weak players, and she signed them to some significant money. To me, it felt like she wasn’t up-to-date.
@Joe
Yeah, people don’t follow this closely enough but the Marlins head analytics people are all from the previous regime. She’s made no change to that leadership at all.
That’s incredibly important in baseball today. She either is a.) behind the times and doesn’t know enough to get the right talent in there. 2.) believes in the old regimes processes in that department.
Take your pick. Maybe a bit of both but this team simply does not improve major leaguers that they get on their squad. She’s paid market value for guys and they’ve declined since coming over. That’s not a sign of a healthy FO.
Their starting pitching development is a plus. That is certainly one positive for her. But it started to look good before she came in also.
These are also highly touted arms that the Marlins previous regime have gathered for her.
They aren’t 15th round senior signs that have suddenly became studs. The marlins previous regime invested heavily in SP’s early in the draft and targeted them in trades.
Impressive when you develop those guys to be sure but they’ve definitely targeted this early and often.
Here’s how this site’s writers described Soler in their free agent preview:
‘Soler’s overall results the past two seasons are underwhelming. He’s a bat-only player with a .224/.319/.435 line since the start of 2020, and both FanGraphs and Baseball Reference pegged him as below replacement level this past season. But that two-year sample ignores a 2019 campaign in which Soler mashed a league-best 48 home runs, and he’s looked reinvigorated since a deadline day trade to the Braves.
‘In 242 plate appearances with Atlanta down the stretch, Soler hit at .269/.358/.524 clip with fourteen homers. He’s slashed his strikeout rate to just 18.6% with the Braves after a dismal start to the year in Kansas City. Soler’s also relatively young, turning 30 in February, and annually has among the league’s top exit velocities and hard contact rates. Teams could see Soler’s second half resurgence as an indicator he’s rediscovered his peak form, but his 2020 and first half struggles raise some questions as well.’
And Garcia:
‘García has had a nice few seasons on the South Side of Chicago. He’s a switch-hitting utilityman who can cover any non-catcher position on the diamond. García doesn’t hit for power or draw many walks, but he makes a fair amount of contact and has been right around league average offensively over the past couple seasons.’
Here’s where Statcast placed Garcia and Soler in their 2021 percentile rankings:
baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/percentile-rank…
From the MLBTR reaction to the Soler signing:
“There was plenty of interest in Soler on the open market this winter, as the Braves were interested in a reunion, and clubs like the Rockies, Padres joined the Marlins as known suitors for the slugger. MLBTR ranked Soler 25th on our list of the winter’s top 50 free agents, and correctly predicted Soler’s actual three-year, $36MM contract. (Our Anthony Franco took the prognostication a step further and even picked Soler to sign with the Marlins.)”
So Ng signed him for exactly what MLBTR predicted he’d get.
Here were some other takes on the Soler at the time, without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight:
manonsecondbaseball.com/at-last-the-marlins-sign-j…
cbsnews.com/miami/news/miami-marlins-sign-jorge-so…
thecomeback.com/mlb/free-agency-jorge-soler-marlin…
si.com/mlb/phillies/around-mlb/report-miami-marlin…
And here’s what S.I. said about the Garcia signing at the time:
si.com/mlb/2021/11/28/marlins-sign-avisail-garcia-…
“García, who turns 31 in June, has spent the past two seasons with the Brewers after previously playing for the Rays, White Sox and Tigers. In 135 games last year, García hit .262/.330/.490, setting career highs with 29 home runs and 86 RBIs.
“García is something of a Statcast darling, ranking in the 80th percentile or better in barrel rate, expected batting average, expected wOBA and average sprint speed. The Marlins scored the second-fewest runs (623) in the majors last season.”
My word, John Zdurencik was horrible. Bill Bavasi about the same. Dipoto is leagues above those guys. Ugh Fink, why did you have to dredge up that name?
You know why, Iggy: to give the lie to that BS about GMs getting fired after two bad years.
Wow, I step away to do something for a little bit and @Fink Ployed goes on a long effort dedicated to defend Kim Ng.
Must be related to her.
I’m sorry, but I’m not dedicated to this argument enough to research every single GM in MLB history who was fired within the first 3 years of holding the position. Anyone that has watched this game for more than a minute would see how many GMs have indeed been fired within the first 3 years of being hired. There are far more GMs that are fired within 3 years or less than there are GMs that last beyond that. Again, anyone that has watched this game for more than a minuted would see that.
@Fink Ployed Since you’re so dedicated to this, why don’t in your efforts to find every GM that lasted longer than 3 years, you also pay attention to all of the places you’re researching (like each teams’ GM history) and count how may GMs lasted 3 years or less. Save me the trouble since you’re dedicated to defend an indefensible situation with Kim Ng. And FYI, despite what you want, calls for her firing have started…just like expected. It has nothing to do with her gender. It has everything to do with her poor performance as a GM. Deal with it. And if you’re not a Marlins fan, move on. We know about our team far more than you non-Marlins fans do.
This is what you said:
“there is no GM that keeps their job after 2 going on 3 years of this”
“I bet my list is longer than yours.”
Why should I save you the trouble? I’m calling you on your bet. Let’s see your list of GMs who were fired after two years. I can think of a couple of interim GMs who didn’t last, but Ng was hired before the season began. Show me your long list of preseason hires who got the boot after two years.
And GMs who left to take another job don’t count. We’re talking about GMs who got the axe.
Yet she’s the one who deserves to be gone after this season. A dozen other sucky GM’s and, according to you, Ng is the ONLY one who deserves to go. Hmmmm.
@Fink You assume way too much. I didn’t even comment on this thread, and yet the same assumptions are being made about her gender. People largely hate GMs for being bad at what they do. I understand some of that may be related to gender, but it causes problems when you assume all criticism or all harsh criticism is gender-based.
@Fink Ployed
This argument is not worth me wasting excessive time to search every single GM that was fired 3 years or less.
If it makes you happy. You win.
It still doesn’t change that Kim Ng, if she has another failed season of bringing the Marlins backward, She deserves to be fired. Let her be one of the next GMs that sucked for three years or less to be fired. Period. And in my case, it’s not about her gender because I rooted for her. This is the success of my team we’re talking about. I don’t give a crud what the GM is as long as they make my team better and win. She hasn’t done it, and you can red herring all the way you want, you have nothing that shows she has done a good job. Nothing!
@utah cornelius
I’m a Marlins fan. I don’t give a crud about the other teams’ GMs. I only care about the GM who is doing a bad job for my team.
Thank you @DeGrom Texas Ranger.
This clown is avoiding the fact that Kim Ng is doing a bad job as the Marlins GM. He has nothing to show otherwise so he’s throwing every red herring he can throw out there.
Likely she
I mean, just looking at the situation objectively as an outside observer, her performance hasn’t inspired much confidence thus far. You know, some of that may have to do with the constrained budget she has to work within, but then looking at the money she has spent lends one to think it could have been spent in a more efficient manner with better results. But hindsight and Monday morning quarterbacking is always 20/20. Maybe by the Trade Deadline we should have enough tape on Kim Ng to say definitively.
@Ignorant Son-of-b
There was no hindsight involved with her signing both Garcia and Soler. We had a surplus of young corner OFs and filled DH role. We only needed one veteran corner OF and no DH. When she signed Garcia, it should’ve been done or she should’ve signed Soler instead of of Garcia – not both. That was clear the second Soler was signed. The Marlins were expected to use that money for a Closer via free agency or trade. My self and other Marlins fans were stating the Closer thing well before the Soler signing and knocked Jeter for quitting over Castellanos. There was no hindsight 20/20 here. It was clear before and at the moment of the second signing. That was the start of questioning her decision making.
As for waiting for the trade deadline for enough tape, us Marlins fans had enough when she failed this last trade deadline when it was expected that the Marlins would move several veterans to clear the path to see what some of our young players could do. She ended up making only one trade to rid the Marlins of her biggest bullpen failure. Weeks after the deadline, after she failed to trade Aguilar for anything with a heartbeat, she released him for nothing. She was criticized for that heavily since Aguilar was the most expected veteran to be moved. She also failed to move others that have declined in value since – Okert, Rojas, Wendle, Berti, Floro, Cooper, etc. Then, after talking a big game about what would be done at the Winter Meetings, she did nothing but do her speech during the opening ceremony, cast a no-brainer vote for Fred McGriff, and do interviews for different networks.
Yeah, if you need more tape for you to grasp what us Marlins fans have already seen, then that’s you. We’ve already come to terms that this is her final season to show something.
Multiple teams were interested in signing Soler. He signed for EXACTLY the price that MLBTR predicted he would sign for.
“The addition of the Universal DH should help free agents such as Jorge Soler. More than a half-dozen teams had already shown interest in the World Series MVP, though that number figures to rise now that the DH is coming to the NL.”
— Mark Feinsand (@Feinsand) March 10, 2022
You’re bagging on Ng because Soler didn’t produce as hoped, despite half a dozen GMs checking in on him.
The Sporting News ranked Soler and Garcia #21 & #24 of the Top 50 free agents:
sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/mlb-top-50-free-agent…
Your 20/20 hindsight is impressive.
@Fink Ployed
Do you not comprehend English? See the following from my post above:
“We had a surplus of young corner OFs and filled DH role. We only needed one veteran corner OF and no DH. When she signed Garcia, it should’ve been done or she should’ve signed Soler instead of of Garcia – not both. That was clear the second Soler was signed. The Marlins were expected to use that money for a Closer via free agency or trade. My self and other Marlins fans were stating the Closer thing well before the Soler signing …”
Can it be any clearer?
Stop with the red herrings. Anyone can see you have nothing that says the Ng has done a good or even decent job. You’ve got nothing.
So you’d have fired Theo Epstein after two years if you’d been a Cubs fan, because his first two seasons saw the Cubbies lose 101 games and 96 games, 9 more games than the fish lost in Ng’s first two seasons, is that right?
Good to know.
Goodbye, curse-breaking 2016 Championship that came three years later.
@Fink Ployed
Theo Epstein was a proven GM from his time in Boston. Ng has no proven GM experience before this job.
Now you’re grasping at straws. Everyone can see that you have nothing here.
And has not played there since lol
Gotta love people like you automatically he hates woman? No he just hates how she RUNS THE BASEBALL TEAM.
That’s the first thing these bozos goto now. Oh he hates how she runs the baseball team…. he hates woman!!! like what? These people are out of control
@Fink you what are you thinking bruh?
@BStrowman Based on his pro ball career Groshans pro rates to 35 errors over a full season. He also foundered at the plate in 2022 in AAA, with a .698 OPS. He didn’t impress after his promo in 2022, either. Looks like he can absolutely use another year in the minors–at least.
@Fink Ployed In fairness it must be said that 179 innings on defense is the equivalent of 7 games at the plate for a hitter—they tell us essentially nothing.
I would have chosen hugs over drugs, but every time a girl hugged me a teacher would start yelling NO PSA DURRING PASSING PERIOD
BStrowman12 hours ago
Another clunker for NG!
==============================
1-I’d have liked Segura for the RS, though I expected the WS to outbid us.
2-I’m not sure why the WS didn’t match this.
3-But most of all, I am curious why this comment, with no depth at all, got five upvotes. Did five people actually think this was some type of insightful comment?
@Joe
You can write nothing of substance and someone will eat it up.
This is a fine deal. I wasn’t being very serious . I hope he doesn’t block Groshans from getting ABS because that’s a guy the Marlins should want to see. He’s a potential future piece.
@Joe
I don’t particularly like Wendle. The ban of the shift isn’t really a boon for him. He hits the ball to all fields. He’s outperformed his expected stats for years in TB. He finally cratered in Miami.
The glove plays and he’s a fine utility piece but that’s about it. He really struggles when you pitch him inside. Teams did that this year and you saw the results. I wouldn’t expect much more offense than what he gave MIA.
maybe Bloom could get a little more like he did in TB. Bloom loves to target guys he’s familiar with. If you look at his signings/deals—there’s been so many that we’re with his old bosses in TB or LA. Wouldn’t surprise me much.
& I agree with you that the Ws should have been on Segura. At this price point—it’s not a bad gamble. They have hopes of contention and a clear hole at 2B. They aren’t a rebuilding team blocking a potential ML starter.
Word in Miami is that Segura will not be at 3B, but will be at 2B. Jazz will be moving to SS. Miggy will be traded or a Utility piece. Wendle is slated to platoon with Groshans unless Groshans can win the job outright.
But we’ll see. What seems most logical tends to be the opposite of what Ng has been doing. I’m just happy that I see many local outlets have been bashing away about her poor performance with the bullpen her entire time here; her failed trade deadline (the first one without Jeter) and her inactivity this offseason and the failed Winter Meetings in which she failed to make a single move, but found time to do a speech for the opening ceremony. cast a no-brainer HoF vote for Fred McGriff, and do interviews during the meetings.
Hmmm
Interesting. Not large enough of a sample size on Jazz to know if he’ll be a plus SS or not but he was a rock solid 2B. Segura as a 2B makes the deal better in my eyes assuming Jazz can play SS at an above average level.
Wendle was good for most of the season, but then had multiple hamstring issues back to back and took him out of rhythm…as well as obviously all the injuries taking guys out of the lineup that made things easier for him
The glove plays and he’s a fine utility piece
============================
That’s all I’m looking for. If Bloom acquires a real SS or 2B via trade, then I’m fine with Arroyo as my UIF.. If he goes cheaper wit Arroyo, then I’d prefer a better backup.
her inactivity this offseason
========================
I wouldn’t hold that against her, as long as she doesn’t panic. Like it or not, Miami can’t compete on the early signings against guys like Cohen, Preller and DD.
January might be a good time to find bargains, or trading partners that sat out the FA frenzy on pitchers, and still want to make a move.
This is *the* off season of the 2 year/$17M contract.
Man, he’ll be missed. I still hope he does well, at least not again the Phillies, but the Braves, Mets, and Nats? Sure.
I will always remember him destroying Cutches knee and maybe the 2019 season. Seemed they weren’t the same after that.
Cutch did that to himself. No one made him dance around to try to avoid an unavoidable tag…
That’s not the way it works. Players like this terrorize their former teams.
Big signing for the fish. Haha
White sox big swing and miss here
For the price Miami is paying, White Sox could have easily been able to afford him. Still need a second baseman too…
The White Sox are waiting for Nick Madrigal to be made available via trade. Mr 3000 will return and rake.
I don’t believe the White Sox can “easily” afford anything. They let Abreu, their best hitter, walk because they needed his money elsewhere on the roster. After adding Civale and Benetendi, that money is gone. Maybe they will claim Park from Atlanta on waivers.
Civale?!
Clevinger maybe.
Meh. On the wrong side of 32.
Wrong side of 32? Joe Morgan had his best season and won his second consecutive MVP at age 32. At age 33, he had a 138 OPS+. Segura’s contract is a two-year deal. They should worry about his age?
YeH and Joe Morgan and Segura are the same caliber of player
Said no one ever.
@casorgreener Just so. Morgan declined DRAMATICALLY at age 33, the same age as Segura in 2023, and fell even farther at 34, so the OP didn’t quite nail that comparison. In addition, you’d be happy to have Joe Morgan’s decline phase, given where he was declining from.
It’s a decent deal. Segura projects to be an adequate regular in 2023 and an adequate backup in 2024. If he happens to age well, the Marlins get him for a tolerable price in 2025. I wouldn’t want him starting on a contending team, but to fill a hole on the roster of a team that hopes to be faking staying in a race against the Braves, Mets, and Phillies despite having 2 above average bats in the lineup last season? Sure. Why not.
Morgan had a better year at age 33 than he had at age 27. He had a better year at age 38 than he had at age 34.
As for Segura, it seems unnecessary to obsess over his age when it’s only a two-year deal averaging less than $8M a year, even if it is the low-budget Marlins. He won’t go yard as often because the park suppresses home runs, but that’s a given.
The Marlins are a cheap team. They’re not going after the Seagers and Semiens in the free agent market. Segura’s pretty much their speed. If I were to worry about anything it’d be the substantial drop in SLG in 2022.
He might be a dud. It’s certainly possible. But you get what you pay for, right?
Are Harrison and Hernandez still available?
All 3 are the same guy, no?
Segura’s hittting is reliably above-average and his defense at 2B is good. I don’t understand either why the White Sox wouldn’t sign him – what are they waiting for at 2B?
Gruß,
BSHH
I’m assuming they’re aiming to go cheap with Sanchez and / or Remilliard. They might think Segura’s decline phase will be steeper than other projection systems have it, leaving him no better than the first two for something like the 17m Segura’s getting from FLA.
Going with one of the kids not a bad way to go at 2nd, as opposed to throwing $ at a declining asset a la Hernandez and Harrison. Like the leap Romy made in year 2 – maybe Project Birmingham will reap other rewards as player development (along with advance scouting) has been the scourge of the underachieving Sox. A bit surprised they didn’t bring Danny back, was at the game when he incurred that gruesome collision.
No, Sosa will win 2B job during spring training. ChiSox will start two rookies (also Colas in RF) in 2023.
Its starting to look that way… The problem is that Sosa looks like the hitter Sammy Sosa was when he was with the Sox. Then again, anything is better than Garcia starting out there.
Great to see for FLA. Segura a damn good player who will have an excellent year
MIA. Haven’t been FLA for quite a while.
Ha – yep, Freudian slip. MLB network just asked on Twitter “who do think of when you see this logo?: Florida Marlins logo
Gary Sheffield–cool bat waggle, even cooler Florida Marlins uniform.
Nice signing
This leaves the Braves and Brewers as the only teams that haven’t spent anything on major league FA I think.
ATL: signed FA Jordan Luplow & Nick Anderson
Anderson was a split contract. Forgot about the Luplow jobber.
Murphy Contract extension.
he said FA
Mariners haven’t signed a FA this session.
And yet, nobody cares!
Well you may not care Blue Baron, but there are a few Mariner fans out there.
@Ignorant: Exactly my point. There are few Mariners fans, so nobody cares!
@Baron Blue: That may be the case, but they are an up and coming team with back to back 90 win seasons. They played the Astros tough in the ALDS and with just a couple more hits and one less homerun given up, could’ve beat them. They are arguably the 2nd best team in the American League. So they are doing a lot better than most teams lately. Don’t you think they should have a few more fans?
They will get more fans in part because of Julio Rodriguez, he is that good.
Heck, even the Reds signed Wil Myers!
Not that it was an earth shattering signing.
Braves have been pretty savvy with the spending they have done.
I like this signing. Segura is an amazing hitter, very clutch. He would always clutch out a hit agaisnt the Mets in close games to win the game for the Phillies
Can’t wait for the tigers to be starting pitchers at every position this year!
I guess it’s somewhat of a good thing Javy can play 7 of the 9 positions. He grew up a CF. He plays 3rd,2nd, and 1st just as well as he does SS. You already know this but he’s actually left handed he just bats and throws right. He signed autographs with his left hand.
So the LH AB during Jake Arrieta’s 2nd No-no in April of ’16 was just for fun. He grew up Batting lefty
There’s a pulse in Miami after all! Segura is a gamer and will be bring some consistency to a below average offense. Miami still needs to add more offense if they want to play .500 or better ball this year but Segura is a nice start for them.
One of the easiest players to root for. Great guy and solid player.
agreed
It’ll have an opt out after year one. Still a good get for the Marlins
What!?!? We made a move!?!?
Kim Ng gets to do another interview!
MarlinsFanBase;
You’re the best Marlins fan that’s been posting on here.
But I can’t take the same thing over and over.
Mute.
I think he’s the only Marlins fan who posts here…
There are others.
Samuel thinks people ingest his dribble and care for his fatuous responses.
Some people keep up-voting him. He has bamboozled some with his pseudo-intellectual mumbo jumbo, it’s pretty hilarious.
From playing for the Phillies to the Fish. Jean will soon realize money isn’t everything.
No but having a full-time job while getting paid handsomely does.
Jean is Dominican, his wife Kellen is Venezuelan, and they have kids. Maybe they have relatives in Miami. I have heard it is a decent place to retire.
Miami is awesome. Once they drop below 500 he can hit the clubs and sandbar. He didn’t go there expecting to win a championship.
Did you not see the numbers? Guy obviously took a pay cut to go there.
Why are you talking like Jean chose to leave? The Phillies let him go. Besides, this is a pretty modest contract by this market’s standard (effing Jordan Lyles got the same), seems like Jean sought out Miami specifically
It’s not like he choose to leave. So glad Segura got a postseason, and he had some big moments too.
*chose
Was low-key hoping the Braves would get him … this is definitely a reasonable deal for him and we need a ss
But I don’t really think a contending team would want to start him at shortstop. 2B sure, but run prevention matters. Maybe occasionally but not regularly.
I don’t disagree. But his offense is consistent enough that I’d be ok taking a hit on defense. Truth is, vaugh has real questions at SS defensively and I’d argue even at the plate. And Orlando is also questionable with the bath. At least with Segura, we know his defense will be meh and his hitting is consistent. Regardless, im sure the Braves only want to do a 1 year deal with a vet like him anyways, which is hard to do if another team is willing to give him 2 or more years,
He won’t be at short. His value is at second base since he’s much better there. My guess is Jazz gets shifted to short and Miguel Rojas does indeed get traded or is the utility man.
Of all the remaining free agents, Segura was not the one I thought would end with the Marlins.
Is Chisholm still hurt? Is he going to be playing SS or will Segura?
Neither Segura or Chisholm are well suited for shortstop. They have Soler for DH. Maybe Segura or Chisholm plays 3B?
1B or CF.
Segura’s arm strength isn’t exactly the best for 3B, but he has played it before.
3B seems like his new primary position. Hard to hit for power in that park. I think Segura and Soler will do well in 2023.
Chisholm is a natural SS. This may be the start of his return back there.
I was wondering the same thing. Segura is a good signing but seems like a weird fit.
BaseballisLife;
Yes, the first thing I thought is that is that Jazz is their best player, and his best position is 2B. Well, Jean can also play 3B. They have
a new manager, so maybe he’ll be moving guys around some. And Wendle and/or Berti might go this off-season.
The Marlins got him at a discount rate. I know it’s a worn out cliché on here, but a contending team with an infield injury in 2023 might give up a decent prospect or two to get Segura. He’s a money player – O and D.
It definitely seems like an odd fit. One has to imagine that at least one of Berti/Rojas/Wendle is getting traded
Going to miss him as he was a terrific guy and a solid player, even though we improved by letting him go and reallocating his share of the payroll.
He turned out to be a better defender at 2nd than I thought he would be when he made the transition..
If nothing else, seeing him trying to create chemistry with Chisholm will be entertaining.
Spoken like a true Mariners fan.
Spoken like anyone who has been paying attention to the careers of both players.
I have not heard Segura having any difficulty with his teammates.
I have seen many unverified reports that Chisholm has issues with several teammates.
Then you haven’t looked very hard.
The team-meeting to address Chisholm’s attitude is a verified report with Mattingly having commented on it and other officials, and likely players, having discussed it with Jon Heyman who wrote about it here: nypost.com/2022/06/09/red-hot-marlins-keeping-jazz…
A quote from Jazz following that meeting and a great on-field performance and the team winning: “I have that tool that’s called, I don’t care. I just go out there and have fun.” Spoken like a true team-player, right?
There’s a well-documented brawl between Jean Segura and Dee Gordon in which he criticized Gordon for missing a pop-up (as if that was intentional) not long after he had taken himself out of a game over something trivial. Servais benched him for his lack of effort on the field as well. This was all happening as the Mariners were getting passed by the Athletics in 2018.
Then there’s the issues with the Phillies.
He was criticized for not running out foul balls, throwing his glove at a ground ball he couldn’t reach (which could have sent the runner to 3B had he made contact), and had to be restrained while getting into a fight/argument with Girardi.
Phillies’ commentators suggested there was concern he was setting a bad example for younger players.
My point isn’t to bash either player, though. I’m simply pointing out the fact that Miami now has two notable personalities that could hinder team chemistry.
That said, I wish Jean, Jazz, and the Marlins the best of luck.
@Stevil
The issues with Jazz have been being addressed by the veterans. Some of that NY Post seems to be filled with typical NY additives in that portion that says, “One person, who suggested teammates may be ‘jealous,’ said, ‘Jazz is like Dennis Rodman. He will always be a lightning rod. But he works and plays hard.’” My question is who is the person that added this last part? Is this the typical NY source, in that it’s someone on their staff that is speculating? It doesn’t say a team source or a person in Jazz’s camp or any other description that would be the norm with citing an anonymous source and giving a slight description for the level of credibility. It says “one person, who suggested…” That can be anyone on the planet.
We are aware that some of the vets have spoken to Jazz about some of his flair, but it’s being addressed, which he has acknowledged himself about needing to tone it down sometimes, but this article by NY Post is using a little bit of hyperbole to add spice…especially with that extra additive in there with a source that can be anyone on the planet with a speculative opinion, who clearly doesn’t have the credentials that would add to credibility, otherwise it would’ve been mentioned to give weight to the anonymous source.
No Jean no!
Wendle is officially a Red Sox
Dude sucks. I’d happily drop him off at the airport myself
I’ll pay the plane ticket and pack his bags.
Flight is probably canceled anyway
I was sorta wondering if the Braves could move Ozzie back to SS and sign Segura for 2B.
I guess not.
as a diehard Phillies fan, I wanna thank Jean for the last few seasons. when healthy he was very good. this past postseason the Phillies had a ton of huge hits in the clutch. But IMO none was bigger then gm#1 of the WC RD when he had a bases loaded single in top of 9th to take a 3-2 lead. I TRULY BELIEVE THAT HIT PROPELLED US TO A WORLD SERIES BERTH.
If we lose that game we probably don’t get to the NLDS. So thanku jean, you will be missed. Hope you have a great season in Miami, aslong as it doesn’t effect the Phillies!!
Good signing.
I was hoping the Angels would sign him vs Drury. Basically the same contract but Segura proven year over year a better player.
Drury WAYYYYY better signing!
Not if you are a Money Baller. Jean is the poster boy for money ball players. Good OPS (330 lifetime) Decent SLG% , good batting average, above average fielding, good speed, flexible positions, 2.5 plus WAR per season over 11 years. And not streaky.
VS
A player with a lifetime 2.0 WAR (8 seasons) that includes his 2.6 this year. And most of his 2.6 WAR was in a bandbox stadium over 3.5 month period.
Jean is hands down the player to sign and better signing. IMHO
Other than position, Segura is the better fitting player due to the type of bat. He may fit Marlins Park better than Drury would have.
Drury will be Tommy La Stella 2.0 – a journeyman utility infielder with one career season.
Agree! But hope we are wrong.
Heard the A’s offered 2 year for $1,700. Yes, I meant to say Seventeen Hundred. Eff John Fisher
About time, Marlins !!
There comes a pint in your career when you simply no longer care about winning.
Segura is still a good player but I feel like Ng made this move just to make it. She said she was going to improve the line up but she definitely just weakened the defense. Segura, Chisholm and Wendle are all good fits at 2nd base but all 3 lack the arm to move to 3B (yes i know Wendle has played alot of 3B but if you’ve seen him consistently it’s not where he belongs). And if Jazz was viewed as a decent SS he would have been there a lot sooner. It’s definitely a misfit bunch. Maybe more moves to come?
Wendle was a great 3B for TB. Talk about a gamer. I’d gladly take him back.
Can’t say that Jazz would’ve been at SS sooner when Rojas is GG caliber.
Now is the part of the off-season where teams just try to grab some value. Even with their awesome starting pitching, the Marlins are not going to the post-season in 2023, so Wendle will probably be traded now for a prospect, and Segura, through no fault of his own, will probably be traded later for a prospect. See how easily the problem is solved.
@MannyBeingMVP
It’ll be interesting to see what is at play here.
Part of me thinks that this may be a move by Ng after she’s being completely bashed by the fan base and some of the media about her inactivity. We’ll see what this Segura move is – a legit effort to make the team better or just a move to silence the critiques. Either works for me as a fan because the first is good while the second means that she’s hearing the criticism (and so is Bruce Sherman), so the pressure is enough to make moves to improve the team. If I’m correct, early sales have been worse for this time of the year – even for the Marlins. That may have triggered something too. But we’ll see.
This makes little to no sense for the Marlins, although still more sense than signing Garcia was last year. This actually feels like a “see guys, we did something” move, and that makes it very Marlins
Very solid signing. Top of the lineup will prob be Segura, Cooper, Chisholm. Fish still in clear need of a cleanup bat to put between them and Soler, Garcia, Wendle, etc.
I’d happily go with replacing Cooper for that bat. Even someone that can stay healthy improves the Marlins over Cooper.
Fish will go all out for Reynolds now, get a bullpen piece and call it an off season
I’d take that.
They need Reynolds, closer, setup guy, first baseman, DH and one veteran starter like Cueto and then call it good.
Prefer Mullins, closer, a strikeout bullpen arm (Fulmer, Chafin) and Belt/Hosmer. That’s it, no need for veteran arm.
I want the Closer as the priority since our bullpen has easily taken 15 wins away from the Marlins in each of the last two seasons.
They need the veteran arm because of all the injuries they have had to the younger arms and because they’re probably about to ship someone out. My guess is Lopez
I think the ranking of priorities are, as of right now:
1. Impactful CF
2. Closer
3. Bullpen arm with high K-rate
4. LH 1B/3B
5. Then maybe a veteran SP
Best suited CF for the Fish are Mullins, Reynolds and either Thomas/McCarthy (ARI). As for closer, there are some FA available, e.g., Chapman, Hand, Knebel. The list is even longer for capable relievers. Best LH 1B are Hosmer and Belt, but I’ve been always intrigued by Edwin Rios (former LAD) who can play both infield corners.
So for bringing a veteran Starter, either Pablo or Trevor have to be traded. This is however highly possible, but the Marlins will still have 5 capable starters in the roster, with some depth pieces in Castano and the recently signed Chi Chi González. You can even think of giving Eury a shot. I do agree another starter is needed after a trade, but there are other businesses to close before turning into that.
Veterans I would like to bring are: Brett Anderson, Anibal Sanchez, Michael Pineda and Mike Minor.
@Habeto
I can’t really argue your priority list. My personal opinion is that I feel that Closer is the biggest need due to the number of leads the Marlins have taken into the late innings, and once their SPs are out, the bullpen blows the lead – essentially so many losses that it has made a difference between them being about a .500 team versus the 90+ loss team they have been the last two seasons.
I cannot argue with you thoughts either. Closer-late bullpen has been also a glaring weakness. Bringing the number of 1-run losses last season, it might be a shared responsibility between the offense and the bullpen. Both problems are yet to be solved, addressing one will not suffice.
The bullpen would definitely help because they were terrible in that aspect. But man – Trey Mancini at first (He can also play corner outfields and they might need that) and Reynolds in center would make this team a little easier to watch. The lineup wouldn’t have any superstars, but they would at least potentially have enough aggregate value combined with elite pitching to give the Mets at least a fight for second place in the division
I think both Belt and Hosmer (for a minimum salary value) are better suited for the 1B job than Mancini. There is more need for another LH bat instead of another RH 1B.
Congratulations to Jean on the beginning of his handsomely paid retirement in Miami.
After 10 years and 1200 games, he finally made it to the postseason!
Judging by the looks of this, must be he have much of a taste for it.
Where careers go to die. RIP
The assumption is Jazz goes to SS but doesn’t Miami still need a CF? Seems like Rojas at SS with his good defense makes more sense.
Wow, could you imagine what Miami could get if they traded Jazz?!
could you imagine what Miami could get if they traded Jazz?!
===============================
I’ll start the bidding with Devers.
Random thought? Would the Marlins consider moving Jazz to CF? They’ve yet to find a long term solution in CF and have some fairly talented MI prospects on the way. Rojas and Segura would be a fine stop gap infield for now
“Center field is an obvious area of need, while Miami may add behind the plate or at the corner infield.”
This is why I was very surprised that the Jays never struck a deal with the Marlins for one of their pitchers for a catcher. I definitely would have rather traded for someone like Pablo Lopez over Varsho, who I think is overrated. That trade was an overpay for him, and not a great use of assets by Shatkins.
He reminds me of Jimmy Rollins. They were very similar types of players.
You will like Varsho. Guarantee fish would have traded Lopez for Moreno, straight up, no Gurriel.
Somebody check on him, he just made a questionable choice.
Carlos Santana returned to Cleveland before the start of the 2019 season. He then went to Kansas City during the 2020 season and then I think he was picked up on waivers during the 2022 season by Seattle. I’m surprised no one else caught that.
Where were the White Sox on this? Worst ownership in MLB!
At least the White Sox try a little, nowhere near the worst ownership. See A’s, Pirates and Reds. Bottom dozen owners out of 30, I would agree with that.
They try, but they’re largely incompetent. A few good deals (Lynn has largely been worth it, Abreu was great for them, and Hendriks has worked out so far), but so many more misfires: roster construction, Kelly, their parade of 2B and RF, Leury, trade for Kimbrel, picking up that option, failing to go all-in on a difference-making star, hiring TLR, and much more. Their list of failures is very long.
The A’s have been much better run than the WS. But Augusto was right irt Segura. They are exactly where they shouldn’t be. A decent team, in a large market, with a window of opportunity.
At this point, they need to add to the payroll.. They need more than Segura, but that is a pretty good fit. There are times to tank, but this isn’t one of them. It wouldn’t take much for them to move to a .550+ team.
The A’s, Reds, Pirates, and Rays are the only teams in MLB who have spent less than the White Sox in free agency, in terms of biggest contracts. That’s pretty pathetic considering the Sox play in Chicago, and Tampa draws like 8K fans per game. I mean there are reasons teamis in those other cities don’t spend, they are much smaller markets. Anyway happy new year to all, I hope your teams are looking much better than mine!
Marlins finally do something. Rojas could either be used as a super utility player, play regularly at 3B or traded
Cardinals ship Tyler O’Neill, prospect OF Moises Gomez (.294/.371/.624 in AA/AAA), and Paul DeJong (plus most of his salary)
for
Trevor Rogers and Miguel Rojas.
Aside from Gomez, all are coming off down years.
O’Neill played plenty of CF for Cardinals, filling a need for Miami, Gomez has power upside (.294/.371/.624) and DeJong fills backup role currently slated for Rojas
Rojas is a bounceback candidate to play SS (moving Edman to 2b) or functions as backup (with Gorman/Donovan covering 2B. Rogers is a depth option (though badly needed in 2024 when most of the rotation exits).
Cards can afford to deal O’Neill, with Carlson, Burleson, Nootbar, Yepez and Jordan Walker, while signing a potential 4th OF type ala Corey Dickerson/Ben Gamel.
I doubt the Marlins sell low on Rogers after what he showed the season before last. Even now I think he’d bring back a significant return
If you change O’Neil for Nootbar, you have a deal.
I’m a Cardinals fan, but seriously like why? Rogers is young and controllable. Miami can do so much better than a guy coming off an injury filled down season, a guy coming off an even worse season and a supposed prospect that basically has one tool and it’s only been above average in AA. There is a quote out there about Gomez that says you’ll like his numbers until you actually watch him play then you’ll understand how he never got to AA in 6 seasons with the Rays
Marlins are not taking nor do they need Paul DeJong. It makes zero sense to trade a SS that no longer has a starting job on the team for a higher paid SS who wouldn’t have a starting job on the team
The Red Sox have had interest in both Rojas and Wendle. I could see some kind of deal for either player with Jarren Duran and another minor leaguer (or two) heading back to Miami
What about something like 1 of christian koss/Enmanuel Valdez, Franklin German, 1 of Duran/david hamilton for 1 or both of Wendle and Rojas…or replace someone with a useful bullpen arm with a few years of control
Wendle was actually really good for most of the season, but then had several back to back hamstring injuries that took him out of rhythm
As a White Sox fan, I say, crap, crap, crap, crap, crap! Now who are they gonna get? Not even much on the trade market.
Really like this move as Marlins need help at the top of the lineup. Hope Jazz can be an adequate shortstop.
Next comes a trade or two of starting pitching. Wonder if the Twins would trade Luis Arraez for the right combination of pitchers starting with Lopez. He could play first base and while not providing the power of that position, the return of Chisholm and comebacks by last year’s power signing busts, could have the making of an excited team.
The other hole is in Center field where Bryan Reynolds would be a nice addition and could be had for some of the Marlins’ younger arms.
Josh Harrison or Dee Strange-Gordon to Red Sox.
No ty.
Pipe dream time: Hendriks, Montgomery, and Burger for Jazz. Not quite a Yankees’ fan proposal of Andujar and Frazier for (cost-controlled superstar), but it does feel good to be completely unrealistic once in a while.
Cabrera, Eder, Milibrant, Bleday and Salas for Reynolds now and call it an off-season.
3B Segura
2B Chisholm
CF Reynolds
1B Cooper
DH Soler
RF Garcia
LF Wendle
SS Rojas
C Stallings
Bench
OF De La Cruz/Sanchez, UT Berti, C Fortes, IF Hampson/Edwards/Groshans/LeBlanc
Not a bad mix. If Chisholm and Cooper stay healthy and if Garcia or Soler bounce back, this is a wild card team.
There’s 3 wild cards. The marlins are worse than the big 3 in their own division. Are you telling me that they can compete with Padres or dodgers for a playoff spot?
No way in hell. That’s before considering the Cubs, D’Backs, Giants. If everything goes right—they could possibly be better than those 3. And I honestly doubt that even happens.
I’d take the Marlins over all three of those pending additional moves. I also think the Phillies and Mets will implode next season so don’t be so confident on them
As for the trade: Rogers instead of Eddie and you got a deal. I’m that high on Cabrera, half a step below Sandy and Eury.
As for the offseason: The Marlins need a closer AND another bullpen arm before nearly calling it an offseason. I don’t like Aroldis Chapman as he was unprofessional last year with the Yankees, but he might be the best suited for the role right now.
As for the Lineup: I’d play:
Segura 2B
Jazz SS
Reynolds CF
Coop 1B
Soler DH
Skinny Avi RF
DLC LF
Wendle/Berti 3B
Fortes/Stallings C
Bench: Sanchez OF/ Berti UT/ Rojas INF/ Stallings C
LeBlanc, Groshans, Edwards and Hampson all to Jacksonville. Rojas SS when facing tough LHP.
Only Jazz is under 30 YO in the current lineup. Nice “rebuild”… They are going to waste the pitching staff just like they wasted the dream OFer’s they had. Need to let the kids play to see what they have and the current pitching staff can provide the steady hand. If they are competing, then deal an arm for a young controllable hitter.
Promising deal for FLA. Still, there’s a reason he didn’t get more. 33-34 yo MI’s who have trouble staying in the lineup aren’t notorious for overproducing.
They reeled him in
My guess is the third year would be a mutual option which is rarely picked up by both parties. It’s possible there could be a vesting milestone that would give him the option. If he doesn’t meet it, the Marlins would have the option. That’s what happened with Carrasco and the Mets. Cookie missed the vesting option due to a late season injury that took away his chance of reaching 170 innings.
It’s a team option, they say.
Questions about Berti’s future too, not just Rojas and Wendle. MLB steals leader last year and haven’t seen his name mentioned.
I hope Segura doesn’t mind not sniffing the playoffs the next few years. I guess money is everything these days.
Segura is expected to play third for the Marlins, according to Craig Mish.
That’s interesting, given Segura has fewer than 200 innings at 3B in 16 seasons in pro ball. Granted, it was 179 innings iirc in 2020, and he was a hair above average by the metrics, but a 2Bman’s arm holding up for a full season isn’t anything like a sure thing. His bat will also suffer by comparison now against 3Bmen rather than 2Bmen. I like the move less if this is FLA’s aim
Wendle to KC for Michael A. Taylor plus?
Marlins seeking players with low strike out rates. Shocking revalation..
Would rule out any former Yankee.
Ko or longball