The Marlins boosted their offense yesterday, adding Jean Segura on a two-year, $17MM deal to play third base. Yet it appears they are still looking for hitting, according to a report from Jon Heyman of the New York Post, and at some stage discussed possible trade scenarios with the Rockies, with Edward Cabrera and Brendan Rodgers the players talked about. It’s not known whether those talks occurred before or after the Segura signing, although it seems probable they came beforehand.
Cabrera, 25 in April, made a solid 14 starts for the Marlins this season, pitching to a 3.01 ERA. He surely benefited from an opponent’s BABIP of just .207, and sure enough advanced metrics such as FIP had him pegged at 4.59. While he did strikeout batters at an above-average 25.8% clip in ’22, his walk rate of 11.3% was below the league average. Nonetheless, it was still a big step forward from a difficult seven starts Cabrera made in 2021 for Miami. Pitching prospects often take a bit of time to settle in at the highest level, and Cabrera is a former top-100 prospect who’s made just 21 big league starts and is yet to reach a full year of service time, so there’s still plenty of time for him to reach his full potential.
The Rockies could certainly use a boost to their rotation, as not one of their projected starting five had an ERA under 4.50 last year, and three finished north of 5.00. Acquiring a young starter like Cabrera would have given them a huge boost in the rotation, particularly over the long term.
The Marlins have been speculated as a possible trade partner for one of their starting pitchers. There were reports at the deadline that the Yankees came close to acquiring Pablo Lopez in a deal involving infielder Gleyber Torres. That didn’t come to fruition, and while it’s not known how far these discussions between the Rockies and Marlins got, it’s interesting to note that it was a similar framework in terms of the Marlins seeking an infielder to headline the return for one of their starting pitchers.
In this case, Rodgers, 26, is a former top-100 prospect himself who had a breakout year in 2022. The bat largely stayed in line with his career numbers, as Rodgers slashed .266/.325/.408 with 13 home runs, but he amassed a staggering 22 Defensive Runs Saved at second base, the second most in all of baseball (behind only Ke’Bryan Hayes). That’s quite the jump forward from the previous year, when Rodgers was worth -5 DRS. That saw Rodgers claim his first Gold Glove award.
The acquisition of Rodgers would have given them arguably one of the best defensive group of infielders in the game, as he would have joined Joey Wendle, Miguel Rojas, and Jazz Chisholm Jr. Though it’s worth noting that both Wendle and Rojas have drawn trade interest themselves (Rojas and Wendle).
The exact makeup of a deal, or even how far along in discussions the two teams got, is unknown but it seems unlikely it would have been a straight swap. Rodgers is first year arbitration-eligible and is projected to take home $2.7MM in 2023 (per Matt Swartz’ predictions). He can be controlled for three more seasons, while Cabrera is under control for another six.
Given the signing of Segura, it’d seem unlikely for Miami to seek any more additions in the infield without trading someone away, but they could shift their attention to moving some pitching to get outfield help. The Padres are reportedly open to moving Trent Grisham, while Pittsburgh has reportedly been seeking a top, young starter to headline any deal for Bryan Reynolds, so those two teams as well as a myriad of others could, speculatively, make sense as trade partners for Miami.
Grisham is a great defender like Bellinger, but would not help the Marlins score runs.
If Heyman said it, it must be true!
Arson Judge XD XD XD
In Jon Heyman we trust!!!
Must have been about Burning Rogers and Edison Cabrera.
I don’t think it was Buck Rogers and Miguel Cabrera!
Grisham would be an excellent fit in CF for Miami. But they would still need to add one more bat. Maybe trade for Grisham and sign Duvall to play LF.
Stretch: I like those two additions. Duvall is a FA, so it would only take money to get him. BA and OBP will suck, but he’s a good defender with lots of pop ( 35 -40 bombs).
You didn’t say what the Marlins would be giving up for Grisham? If it’s Cabrera, I think the Fish would need to get something else in that deal.
The Marlins would be getting ripped off if it’s a 1 for 1 swap. They better be getting way more for a top 100 prospect 3 years in a row with 6 years of control left coming off a 3.01 ERA season.
Maybe Zac Veen?
Seems fair enough but not quite that great due to Veen’s numbers in the low minors last year
Rox don’t do that. Veen is super young and has best prospect in the minors ceiling. They don’t move him for Cabrera alone.
Rockies won’t trade Veen, I don’t think this will ever happen at all. Rockies love their p,Ayer’s too much to trade them. On the surface, 1 for 1 would be a good trade for both teams
16 users seem to think the Marlins shouldn’t do this.
Rox aren’t trading Veen. He’s Yelich type, only minus (hopefully) the medical issues.
Are people upvoting my username or my comments?
they talked about it and the Marlins said, “No.”
I don’t know Rodgers is a heck of a good young player. SS is his natural position and his bat would be even more valuable if he were to move back. He is a solid breakout candidate getting ready to hit his prime. Young pitchers are fickle and anyone of them could need TJS after the next pitch. Rockies might have to sweeten it with a young lottery prospect with a decent ceiling but Rodgers is as solid as Torres but can actually handle SS. He was only moved to 2nd in the minors because Story was entrenched at SS. The Rockies should have moved him back when Story left but I’m sure his iffy play at 2nd that year didn’t give them a ton of confidence. His defense last year should silence those worries and a move back to SS would make him an attractive piece to a team like the Yankees if their young prospects don’t pan out. Volpe reminds me of Hanley Ramirez when I have seen him play and Peraza has a questionable bat. Cashman seems to be awfully high on both which tells me they probably won’t pan out. If the Marlins pass on Rodgers the Yankees should pounce. 3 years of control is a good fit for them and he will be relatively cheap for Donaldson’s last year. I seem to be convincing myself more than anything. Yanks should offer Volpe and whatever else the Rockies would want to get him. Somebody is going to look smart for getting him. Well, that probably leaves Cashman out. He only makes trades when he looks like the definite winner on day 1 and the fool in year 2…
So you are saying Volpe is bad defensively at shortstop?
More would’ve need to come to MIA along with Rodgers. With most Rockie players home/road splits are not good.
If true or not, glad it was completed as Cabrera’s ceiling is Sandy.
Was not completed**
would’ve needed**
🙂
At some point, people need to realize that if H/R splits for 99% of all Rockies is bad, then maybe that stat doesn’t tell you anything about Rockies players. It is USELESS.
Why not? I actually don’t discount Rockies stats as much as some, but it is fair to point out that Rodgers had only 3 road HRs last year. He also has some significant L/R splits as well.
There’s a million resources on the internet explaining how playing half your games in Denver makes it incredibly difficult to hit at sea level. Rockies hitters who leave the team tend to actually do better overall than they did in Colorado, but with narrower splits. So their road splits are not their true talent, but considerably less.
Because every player in the league except Rockies players get to boost their road stats with their inflated numbers from Coors Field. That fact alone should tell you that Rockies are always at a significant disadavantage when comparing H/R to players from other teams. Road stats are different for every team. They are not a constant. That makes comparing them virtually useless.
I wouldn’t do it, but then again I am never in favor of dealing good pitching.
Let’s not forget Alcantara didn’t have nearly the ceiling he has reached when he came over from the Cards. He wasn’t even the headliner in the deal. Magneaurus (sp?) Sierra was. Iirc Sandy was the Cardinals 9th or 10th ranked prospect at the time. I have seen so many complaints at the Marlins trading of Yellich and Stanton but never a peep over Ozuna. At the time of the trades the Marlins we’re applauded for the haul they got from the Brewers. Brinson alone was a top 10 prospect in all of baseball, plus they got more for an OF the was good but not great at the time. Stanton handcuffed them because the Giants deal looked solid but he nixed it. Ozuna had a big bat the year he was traded and fans were not happy with the return. Funny how a few years and a CYA change things. Rodgers is a serious breakout candidate that should move back to SS. Cabrera is a solid young pitcher but they are just about 50/50 these days on getting TJS. They need controllable young talent but I think there are better teams to make a deal with than Colorado. They are stuck in that division without much hope of contending for awhile. Toronto or Seattle would be perfect trading partners. Both have solid young players and prospects and need good young cheap starters. I would put Boston in as well but they don’t have the farm to match up. Baltimore is the best fit but they passed on decent starters for just money in FA. They must think they have the arms they need on the farm already. Sorry I am writing novels today. Happens every time doctor day rolls around. I hate doctor day.
No way Cabrera goes to Rockies – he has a legit shot at being an ace while Rodgers split stats show he is TERRRIBLE away from Coors field
You might right about Cabrera, but the Marlins have the best most consistent starter on their staff already.
On the Rockies, he skyrockets to become their ace pitcher immediately.
Its smart for the Marlins not to dangle Trevor Rogers since his market value is low at this time, but he’s only a year removed from his incredible rookie season in 2021.
At the least, the Marlins should be getting back 2 starting position players with upside in return for Cabrera.
First, the Marlins were in talks with the Angels to trade Max Meyer for Brandon Marsh. Now this? What’s Kim Ng’s obsession with wanting to get fleeced in proposed 1-for-1 deals?
Ng needs to move a pitcher and really needs a CF, 1B, & a catcher. Lopez makes the most sense to go. They only have 2 years w/ him and about a 1% chance of being competitive in that time frame.
Well, there was a reason the deal never happened. Someone didn’t like the terms of it. You will never know who.
Besides, no one knows these are one for one deals necessarily, usually they just say what principals were involved. It is even that way when the deals are first reported before the teams announce it and you really get the lowdown.
That deal never came to fruition which likely means she didn’t want to trade Max Meyer for Brandon Marsh, otherwise she presumably would have.
Or Perry wanted the young catcher, O’hoppe, over Meyer.
Angels were the ones who declined the trade. Ng had every intention to get fleeced.
It’s a Marlins thing in general. They also moved Gallen for Jazz straight up b/c they thought Neidert was better, completely ignoring the fact they should have got more in that deal regardless
Jazz was a huge prospect at the time. Gallen was a good prospect who had broken out that year. It looked even at the time. And honestly the Marlins need a position player far more than they need Gallen right now.
Jazz had fallen off hard and had certain areas that were legit question marks, and in the midseason prospect update was about to be dropped a lot. Gallen had breakout potential when he was in A ball, and was even better in the big leagues for enough time, where it makes no sense to trade that straight up for a prospect in mid minor leagues that was struggling the way Jazz was, b/c of his mechanics at the time
I’m not saying it was bad to get Jazz. The point if the comment is not getting enough value. This is the issue all the time with the Marlins. They want 1 specific person and dont care what they give up, either end of the trading spectrum, where every single other team would get multiple guys
The Marlins and cardinals would have matched up on a Arenado/Lopez swap, but Segura isn’t that much of a drop off from Nolan and they get to keep Lopez to dangle for more talent. Two years away from besting the Braves, three away from the Mets and about seven away from challenging Philly for the division.
What
I think @camfrost summed it up best with his one word response.
I’d laugh if the Cards traded away Arenado for just Lopez. I don’t think they’re interested in getting fleeced by the Marlins again.
I’m still laughing at this.
Please tell me this is a joke comment. You can’t be serious
Respectfully SWC – “Segura isn’t that much of a drop off from Nolan Arenado”? In what dimension would that be?
I really enjoyed having Segura in Philly for the last 4 years, as he ended up being somewhat better than I had hoped and was also a better clubhouse guy than his prior reputation as well. The Marlins made a solid investment by getting him.
However, Arenado peaks as MVP material and his floor is currently in the top 5 3B in baseball. Jean would probably peak as a slightly above average 3B…at best. Still a smart deal for the Marlins as they had a huge hole and he adds offense to a moribund lineup.
I actually see STL and MIA very good partners for a trade, certainly one of the top 5 teams for a Pablo Lopez trade. Nootbar + others for Pablo is my favourite, but I’m not completely sure if he can play decent CF.
As a Marlins fan, Arenado is impossible to get. No way, José. I guess you are just joking.
@habeto agree w you, they match up well. I’d have to think among O’Neill Gorman Donovan nootbar there would be something that at least starts a conversation
What could the Orioles give for Garrett and Eder that doesn’t include Adley, Gunnar and Holliday? Mullins? Santander + Urias? Hall, Cowser and Haskin?
This slider guy really needs some help.
LOFL
Someone for the love of God get this GM away from the decision making table. Seems to be hell bent on screwing things up. This infielder is TERRIBLE away from Coors and his numbers overall aren’t enough to make a difference. They need at least one elite position player and this ain’t it
Amen. As a diehard Marlins fan you can’t 100% blame Ng. The Marlins are notorious for “huh” trades and signings. When I read the headline I didn’t even laugh, I said “huh”. Exactly. Archer nets you Glasnow and Meadows, Cabrera apparently nets you…. Brendan Rogers? Lol. The Marlins are nuts.
Eddie is worth much more than Rodgers and Grisham, and personally, won’t like him involved in any trade whatsoever.
Reynolds yes, but maybe for Trevor, Meyer plus other two top 15 prospects or near ready players like Bleday or Burdick.
A ton more. This is the Marlins thoughts they hire people off the streets or who are relatives of the owner. Lol. As a diehard fan we’ve put up with too much BS for too long. Rejecting Verlander and Granderson then eventually ending up with Maybin for Miggy. Lol. Strailey for Luis Castillo, you get the picture.
To be fair, Castillo wasn’t super highly thought of initially as a prospect. It’s why he was moved (or returned) multiple times as a secondary piece in his minor league career.
Good point about Castillo but Straily basically always sucked.
Cabrera has 98 career INNINGS pitched. He is not worth more than Rodgers, who was a 4.3 WAR in 2022 and that was with one of the most horrible Aprils ever. Take away April and he was probably a 5.5-6.0 WAR player last year.
That is certainly worth more than a guy with 21 career starts at a 5.14 FIP.
You certainly have to look beyond the numbers, especially WAR. Not saying Trevor has not great stuff, but Eddie’s is just fantastic and projectable.
Cabrera has 3 plus plus pitches with two more that can be above average. If Cabrera keeps working hard and focusing, there is no doubt he can become half-a-step behind Sandy in about two or three years. Remember Sandy in 2019? Well, Eddie is looking even better.
My bad, I though you were talking about Trevor Rogers.
Dude, the Rockies can certainly keep a 2B that had three good months last season and doesn’t provide any good results outside Coors Field.
Cool then we agree. Except that the number of months in a baseball season minus one equals 5 not 3.
And you can keep a project that you can pretend might be better eventually than a FIP of over 5.00.
Look beyond FIP-spin too. It’s more mirage than predictor.
Rodgers had a breakout season cause he was good on defense? A former top prospect putting up a 96 wRC+ is NOT a breakout…
Top 100 prospect…..more like a top 25 prospect for 1/2 a decade. Once u hit your 3rd year on that list – might as well quit baseball and start landing plans u got some many red flags attached to ya
That makes very little sense. He’s made a few million dollars being an everyday player. Why should he have quit baseball years ago prior to making that money? lol
3rd year on the list for a college player that is true. But Rodgers was a HS player that worked his way up one level a year because the Rockies didn’t rush him. He never really struggled at any level in the minors.
The Orioles need to see if they line up with the Marlins on a trade for one of their pitchers. Cabrera, Lopez, or Rogers would all be welcome additions.
Lopez for Mullins I think that’s fair. I love Pablo and don’t want the Marlins to trade him but with the surplus of pitching and his value right now and our needs, sounds solid.
Mullins has been worth 9 WAR over the last years. Lopez has been worth less than 6fWAR.
Mullins has 3 years of control to Lopez’s two. I don’t know why this is getting tossed around as a fair swap because it is not. Lopez finally cleared 120 innings last year. That was the first time in his MLB career.
Mullins is also a key part of the O’s team. I’d be shocked if he goes anywhere. If he does —it’ll be an overpay. Certainly more than Lopez.
So Pablo for Colton Cowser + a bullpen arm is fair, right?
No thanks to Lopez for Mullins. Mullins for Cabrera or Garrett + Eder. Or Rogers + Meyer. Which do you prefer?
Well, if I’m the Marlins’ GM I’ll do Garrett+ Eder. However, and being reasonable, Eder is coming out of TJ and Garrett is has a ceiling of a 4th starter, so I think you’ll need another top prospect like Salas or Cappe.
Both Rogers and Meyer have higher ceiling, so the reward might be better, but Max will not pitch in 2023 also because TJS.
I think a fair return for Mullins is Rogers + Eder + Jacob Miller + a low prospect, but I have asked other Orioles fans and they prefer moving Cowser instead of Cedric.
Sure, move Cowser instead of Mullins…but is he really a CF? Could even toss in Haskin, who does appear a legit CF but will he hit in the bigs.
I knew of Eder’s TJ but forgot about Meyer’s.
Garrett is really a #4 tops?
The fact that Garrett is right now #6 in the Marlins’ SP depth chart tells you something about how good they are.
Garrett has a 91-mph FB with a very good SL and fine CB and CH. His location is his calling card, and avoided hard contact last year. Still 25, needs to work deeper in the games (only 88 IP in 17 starts). I see him as Steve Matz, so a #3 at his peak is feasible.
I’m sure the Marlins are also interested in Cowser, whether he can play CF or not. He sure will start the season at AAA, but a mid-Season call up is realistic. Despite the efforts of being competitive on the coming season, I see the Marlins really competing in 2024.
Orioles and Marlins line up on Soo many pitching/hitting combos. Both teams can do well for themselves. I hope.
Marlins should keep Cabrera he’s got better potential than Pablo Lopez. They should trade to cardinals for Carlson or to cubs for Ian Happ. Maybe will need to throw in a mid level prospect but seems like good fits.
I would get Happ for just how he hits in Cincinnati’s ballpark. Dude would be MVP.
The only problem with that theory is that he wouldn’t still be hitting against the Reds pitchers. I think they contribute more to his hitting success than a ballpark.Remember that Happ hits very well against the Reds in Wrigley too.
If he hits off the Cubs pitchers like the rest of the Reds do, he’ll still be just fine.
I’m sure they were glad Kyle Farmer got traded to the AL. Even Aquino hit well off them.
With Ian Happ eligible for free agency in 2024, there’s no way the Marlins would trade any of their top 5 pitchers for just one season of Happ. They want young, MLB position players with at least 3-4 years of control left (if not more) in return for any of their pitchers.
This deal possibility is TOTAL NONSENSE !!.. Cabrera’s high-upside makes him second best (only to Sandy) in the starting rotation. This fellow Rodgers perhaps bats well at batter-friendly Coors Park but he won’t do it at difficult Marlins Park. Besides, we need a centerfield, a first baseman and relief help, but, not another infielder. .. Eric Hosmer is there and San Diego pays his upcoming salaries… why not sign him ?
Don’t rule out the Giants
as being involved in discussions with Miami for Brendan.
They are collecting pitchers with “Rodgers” and “Rogers” last names.
Roger.
The Dodger Roger?
He’s a great talent. Has a great gift. But it’s not enough.
That sound is fantasy owners everywhere screaming “Nooooooo!” as the value of both players craters.
Rockies screwed up if they coulda made that deal
If you’re insistent on trading controllable pitching one on one for a position player you are doing it wrong. Every team should be trying to pluck a starting pitcher from Miami.
The Maelins dont get value in trades. They have no understanding of asset management
Some front office should test this theory of Marlins’ FO incompetence by offering a DFA candidate for Alcantara and seeing how they respond. It’s always worth a shot, given recent history.
You make a big deal about Cabreras walks but he only gave up 5.5 hits per 9 so his WHIP was very good. He was what us old folks call
“effectively wild.”
WHIP >> FIP
If batters can’t hit a pitcher solidly, that’s most of the battle.
is it just me or is anyone else tired of seeing John Heymans name attatched TO EVERY SINGLE rumor??
I’m wondering why there hasn’t been an article yet about Arson Judge signing with the San Francisco Giants yet. Heyman has to be right!
The number 1 priority for the Marlins should be what the issue has been for the laat few years, which is the bullpen. They need 2-3 bullpen arms, especially guys that can pitch in high leverage situations/finish a game. They have some guys they didnt let go of for free yet, in the organization, to give looks to. It would be nice to add another depth option in the rotation, with them letting some of those guys go, but that isnt as important as the bullpen
I still dont see the need to trade assets for a CFer. I want to see De La Cruz get more opportunities, and the rest of the young guys to get more chances.
They could use a corner bat type at 1b/3b/DH, and then move 1 or 2 of Wendle, Berti, Leblanc, Rojas…but again, that’s not a priority over the bullpen
@fomerlyz
We’re on the same page. We’ve seen the Marlins blow so many games because of that lousy bullpen the last two years. I’m in the camp of thinking, with where we are and what we’ve seen the last two years, if they fixed the bullpen and held all the leads they have going into the last couple of innings, they are about a .500 team immediately. Then they can fix the offense as needed.
Sad that they watched Jansen, Kimbrel, and Taylor all sign elsewhere. Even with the flaws they all have right now, they’d still be an upgrade over what we have.
Now here’s what I’m thinking with what’s left on the market and what we have:
Ng needs to meet Alex Reyes’ demands. I’d take a flyer on him with an incentive-laden contract, but of course after he passes a physical.
I’d also pluck Aroldis Chapman from the market. He’s practically looking like an easy get for the Marlins. If he can’t close or secure the job, he can still be a mentor for whoever is doing it. He can also serve as our primary lefty piece in the bullpen.
If we can’t get Reyes, or if we do and he can’t secure the Closer role yet, then I’d give a shot to Sixto Sanchez since he could use a rebuilding of his career and low innings on his arm as he returns. With Chapman in tow, Sixto would have that Closer mentor as well to help him transition for this year.
What I don’t want to see from our bullpen is the status quo of continuing to put MRs out there who are career MRs that couldn’t be Closer anywhere else, but we try to see if we’re smarter than every team that saw they sucked in high-leverage situations before we got them. Ahem…I’m talking Floro, Scott, etc. etc.
With positions, I too am very happy with seeing de la Cruz in CF and seeing what the other young OFs can do. I’m disappointed that Cooper is still with us. I’m disappointed that we non-tendered Anderson, while keeping Cooper. We need a 1B bat, but those are pretty much gone – unless we want to take on Hosmer or take a low-risk/high-reward shot with Dom Smith (which I’d feel comfortable with instead of Hosmer).
I’d move Wendle and Rojas and Cooper. I think Berti is useful since we didn’t trade him at his peak value. I’m ok with Leblanc to see if we found a serviceable player there.
Good post!.
I agree on the bullpen stuff. I’ve long said Sixto was a reliever before they even traded for him. Historically never missed bats, and I think he has a better chance to be useful there. I agree on both the FA options, and I’d look to add 1 more RH reliever that you know is healthy
I’ve said before I disagree on Cooper, but there was 1 time it made sense to move him, and unfortunately he was hurt at that time
Wendle shouldbjave been moved last year in like June, and I said previously I would have considered moving Rojas, depending on what came back, but my main priority at that time was moving Aguilar and bullpen pieces, and they mostly failed to do that, as you’ve mentioned
Right now I’m not as sure about Rojas, but I do think it makes some sense to sell middle on Wendle. I could say any of those guys I mentioned being moved, but I could also see them all staying if you cant use those spots more usefully…
Obviously, as we’ve said multiple times, the Garica problem is the biggest issue besides the bullpen, and honestly makes the Soler thing not as bad, if he can stay healthy for once
…that being said, I’d like to be looking at bullpen guys that dont walk the world, b/c that has been an issue for like 7 years
They can still get chafin if they need BP help
I agree about the bullpen and those darn walks…and every other way they find to blow leads. And we know it’s all about the lack of talent we have there because Mel has done a fine job with developing our starters. Ng needs to add talent to the bullpen or let the young pitchers who can’t secure a starting role, try to convert into our bullpen in the high-leverage situations.
With Cooper, with the way the market looks right now, I’d have no issue with starting the season with him. But I’d look to add Hosmer or Dom Smith as insurance for when Cooper goes down…as he always does (fluke injuries or not).
With Garcia, we’re essentially stuck like we are somewhat with Soler. The good thing with Soler though, is that if he has a big year, he’ll opt out and be gone. With Garcia, we have to hope for a bounce-back year, and hopefully move him to anyone wanting him. I’m comfortable with Soler though now he’ll be the full time DH, and we know he’s all-or-nothing with his power, and if injured, insurance pays it while we clear the spot for another young player until Soler returns. Garcia is my concern because we absolutely need him to have a good year to build his tradability to move him.
fingers crossed that more moves are coming. I’m a little hesitant, even with the Segura move, because that could’ve been a ‘silence the fans’ type of move.
I just really dont want to see them make trades of certain pieces right now b/c I just dont trust them to make a good deal. I’m still mad they didnt move Elieser last offseason b/c they could have got useful bullpen arms in return at that time from a team like the White Sox, and then they could have used their money on stuff they needed, like that/those bullpen pieces, instead of what they didnt need, like Garcia…also, all of that coming off the Marte situation, as has been talked about ad nauseam, not to mention stuff that happened when they moved Yelich, Stanton, and Realmuto, etc. Pretty much just bringing those things up, in addition to several other things that have been mentioned previously, as things that put them in this position
Meanwhile they keep letting actual bullpen options go for nothing, most of whom without giving them an opportunity here, which is mind boggling when that is such a significant issue
I can understand this concern. The interesting thing is that Ng missed the parade of potential trades, so they very likely stand pat because there’s really nothing truly available that improves the Marlins – other than Reynolds in Pittsburgh or Mullins in Baltimore. Unless there’s a surprise, nothing else out there is worth making a trade for.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Segura is our only move, unless they sign Chapman and either Hosmer or someone like Dom Smith. Nothing else seems likely or possible. Even Alex Reyes seems like something that has gone cold for the Marlins.
I’ve long said trading for Mullins reminds me of the incredibly dumb and short sighted Dee Gordon trade that was 1 of the significant decisions that put them in the position to need to reset in 2017
Right now, I would agree it doesnt look like much is going to happen bullpen wise, but if that’s the case, I would prefer to just stand pat b/c its incredibly dangerous for this organization to make some sort of trade, using assets
I’m glad we didn’t make this Cabrera/Rodgers trade. That would’ve sucked.
Personally, I trade Lopez for a piece, but it’s looking more and more like it makes more sense to keep him if we can’t trade him for the likes of Reynolds from Pittsburgh or Mullins from Baltimore. I don’t see any other team offering us a position player of need, and I certainly won’t trade Lopez for bullpen pieces when we can simply keep him and give the shot to one of our young arms.
Of note, the Marlins would’ve been in a better position if Ng didn’t non-tender Anderson; would have put the money needed to land Bellinger; and put the money needed to win out for Bell at 1B. the focus then would’ve been just bullpen, without having to trade any of our pitchers.
“Would have been in better position if…” is the theme of the Marlins
That would be a great t-shirt for 2023!
Can still resign Anderson. Pillar and so on still on Market.
I hope we hold onto Cabrera and Luzardo tightly and offer up Lopez, Brax, or whoever else ( not named Sandy) anyone wants. I’m okay to go Pablo and one other minor league arm (maybe Dax) for Mullins. Dax is likely 2 years away which is a lot of seasoning away ( for us) but that might work for Baltimore. Centerfielder and closer is where our focus should be
Lopez is not enough to get Mullins done.
Funny. Marlins fans would think the other way around. If both fan bases would be dissatisfied with a trade for each other, then very likely it makes sense on some level.
Lopez is expendable for MIA, so fans who think it would be an overpay are not familiar with their current SP depth as well as their SP prospects. Meanwhile MLB-caliber CFs are few and far between.
Mullins could go for a return of something like Cabrera/Luzardo/Rogers + Eder/Meyer. Not sure what the exact combo is to make the trade. Miami could also net Haskin in the right combination.
Or MIA could trade for Colton Coswer with one of those three current MLB SPs. He could even break camp as the starting CF.
Guys’ trade value is what makes trades; not if they’re expendable. Lopez is expendable with the Marlins because of the many pitchers we have. He’s valuable to every team that needs a SP of his caliber.
And I think as a Marlins fan, I’m pretty familiar with our current SP depth and SP prospects. you think you know more than I do about the Marlins?
I repeat…Orioles fans will feel that Lopez is not enough for Mullins, while us Marlins fans who know our SP depth and SP prospects will still feel that Mullins is not enough for Lopez.
I was not commenting about your knowledge; I was responding directly to your statement, “Marlins fans would think the other way around,” which communicates people other than you.
But two years of a pitcher who had a mediocre 2022 is not getting it done. You want Mullins, since there are numerous holes in the lineup. So you have to start with Cabrera/Luzardo/Rogers. How the deal is completed is yet to be known.
Lopez might get you Cowser. More likely would get you Westburg + Haskin.
Finally, some Oriole fans do want Lopez and would consider Mullins. But they are not the GM. No chance in hell Elias is giving Mullins for Lopez straight up. But it would be stupid if Ng wouldn’t do that deal. And a lot of that calculus IS that Lopez is expendable. The bigger part of the calculus is that Miami is in desperate need at multiple positions at the MLB level and there is not much in the minors to fill those holes.
One last thing: expendability is one of the key driving factors to trades, whether you want to acknowledge that or not.
Seems pretty fair. Rodgers hasn’t been prolific with the bat but is a young 4 WAR MI. Cabrera had a good ERA last year and is young but gives up a lot of walks, a lot of HRs and hasn’t come close to a starters workload. They both have intrigue but question marks.
I don’t see it. I mean, I get why the Rockies would do it, but the Marlins should be aiming for difference-making hitter in exchange for Cabrera—not just a guy who’s capable of hitting major league pitching.
This is odd: Rodgers had a .588 road OPS in 2022, and an .873 road OPS the prior season.
Meanwhile, Cabrera had a .177 BAA in ‘22.
I think if the Marlins were willing to pick up what’s left on Luis Robert’s contract, 3yrs and 37M, with the right package of prospects, they could possibly get both Robert and possibly Vaughn or Sheets from the White Sox.
Vaughn and Sheets are both first baseman, and the Sox like Eloy Jimenez at DH. Both Vaughn and Sheets can play RF, but it’s not ideal. Sheets is probably the better defensive option at 1B, and I think he is good for a .250/.325/.450 – but Vaughn is regarded as the better offensive option.
But it’s a trade I think the WS would look at if it included the right package of prospects.
Max Meyer
Sixto Sanchez
JJ Bleday
Joe Mack
Griffin Conine
is that too much for Robert and Vaughn? As a Sox fan, I value both as all stars, but that would be a nice package for that group.
Would give the Marlins two nice offensive players on reasonable contracts, they’d still have good depth in the starting rotation and they’d still have more than a handful of nice prospects.
Would the White Sox make that trade? Is Max Meyer going to be an Ace? Is Sixto going to be an ace, they both could be front of the rotation starters and that alone makes the trade a good trade.
I just watched some Sixto highlights, the movement on his cutter is wicked, and then he blows you away with a 100 MPH rising fastball, this was in 2020, probably was using the spider tack.
Noticeable difference in the movement of pitches in my opinion since they got rid of the spider tack, but still, Sixto has a nice delivery, high velocity fastball and good movement on his offspeed stuff, he is similar to Frankie Montas with his delivery and repertoire.
Sixto has never missed bats, but he gets weak contact. His velocity isnt what it was at 1 point, but was always a much straighter fastball with the higher velocity. Personally never thought he was a starter before they traded for him, and he was already injury prone and undersized then, then be got fat. I hope he stays healthy, and can be useful b/c the Marlins desperately need him to be