Marc Narducci spent 37 years covering all sports for The Philadelphia Inquirer before recently retiring in July. He covered everything from high school sports to the Phillies winning the World Series and the Eagles winning the Super Bowl. A lifelong Southern NJ resident, he remains a freelance writer and broadcaster. Once again, Marc reached out to see if MLB Trade Rumors would be interested in publishing his Hall of Fame ballot. I am happy to do it and hope it can be an interesting topic of debate for our readers. Here’s Marc…
Let’s get it out of the way first.
Last season while writing for MLB Trade Rumors about my Hall of Fame ballot, the case was presented that there was no room for the steroid players.
As anybody can see from the comments, my ears were burning as the overwhelming majority of the readers disagreed.
That’s fine. A little discourse is good, and while Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa and Roger Clemens are off the ballot, and while there are still players on the ballot linked to steroids, the biggest controversy this year centers around Carlos Beltran, albeit, not steroid related.
It was Beltran who MLB said was the mastermind of the Houston Astros cheating scandal in 2017 when they won the World Series. MLB said Houston used an intricate electronic method to steal signs and the only player named as the ringleader was Beltran.
It cost him the job of the New York Mets manager and at least for now, is costing him this vote.
Beltran has a strong resume, a nine-time all-star, three-time Gold Glove winner who, put up a career 279/.350/486 line with 435 home runs and 1,587 RBI.
In 65 postseason games, he hit .307/.412/609 line with 16 home runs and 42 RBI over 256 plate appearance.
Beltran himself said that the Astros World Series title was “stained” by the scandal.
The fact that he was the mastermind, well, that was cheating the game. He was not a slam dunk candidate before this occurred, but he did have a lot in his favor. For now, he will remain off this ballot.
Should all the Astros be punished?
That will be answered later, but for being the mastermind, Beltran pays the price on this ballot.
And for those who don’t think it was a big deal, both the Yankees and Dodgers, who lost to Houston in seven-game series in the ALCS and World Series respectively, didn’t hold back on their criticism of the Astros.
Now back to the ballot, with the players listed in alphabetical order.
One can talk all they want about the advantage for Colorado Rockies hitters in Coors Field and there is some obvious truth, but it’s also difficult to play on the road after hitting in that altitude.
If a player had a .287/.386/469 line for a career, that would open some eyes. The fact that it was Helton’s road total shows what a good hitter he was. At Coors it was .345/.441/.607.
That gave him a career mark of .316/.414/.539.
He was a first baseman who wasn’t known for his power, but he still hit 369 home runs and had 1,406 RBI, while playing all 17 seasons for the Rockies.
He was a five-time All-Star, a four-time Silver Slugger winner and a three-time Gold Glove recipient.
For those who give all the credit to the hitting atmosphere in Coors Field, he has a 133 career OPS+ and a 132 WRC+.
He also won the batting title in 2000, hitting, .372.
Again, while some suggest batting average is an outdated measure to evaluate players, it should be remembered how difficult it is to hit .300. In 2022, only 11 total players from both leagues hit .300 or better. Helton did it for his career.
This is his fifth season on the ballot and his percentage of votes has increased each year. Last year he received 52% of the vote. It may be too big a jump to make the needed 75% threshold this year, but Helton, a former quarterback with Peyton Manning at Tennessee, appears to one day be headed to Cooperstown.
This is Kent’s 10th and final year on the ballot and it doesn’t appear as if he will come close to getting elected by the writers.
Last season he received his highest vote total, 32.7 percent, so unless he has a miracle surge this year, Kent won’t make it.
Still, being the best power hitting second baseman in history is a main reason he made this ballot.
We know Kent was a below average fielder, but nobody hit more home runs as a second baseman in MLB history.
Kent hit 377 home runs, including 351 as a second baseman. The closest second baseman was Rogers Hornsby, who hit 301.
We acknowledge that Hornsby had 325 fewer at-bats than Kent, but the 50- home run difference (as second basemen) is still jaw dropping, especially for a position that isn’t known for power.
While RBI are downgraded by many in the sabermetrics community, most of the top players in the league each season are among the RBI leaders. Kent is third among second basemen in the Hall of Fame with 1,518 RBI.
Only three HOF second basemen have hit more than Kent’s 560 doubles.
Among HOF second basemen, he is second only to Hornsby with a .500 slugging percentage. (Hornsby had an insane .577 slugging percentage).
Kent’s career B-WAR is just 55.4, thanks largely to a -0.1 DWAR.
His .855 OPS is fifth among HOF second basemen.
He not only hit for power, but for average. His had a career line of .290/.356/.500.
Kent was the 2000 MVP, a five-time All-Star, and four-time Silver Slugger recipient.
He was a solid, if not spectacular postseason performer, but qualified for the playoffs seven times with four different teams.
In 49 career postseason games, Kent hit .276/.340/.500 with nine home runs and 23 RBI in 189 plate appearances.
Just a great hitting career, one that was HOF worthy.
Scott Rolen continues to make good progress in his attempt to earn a HOF berth. This is his sixth season on the ballot and last year he received 63.2% of the vote.
He is a player who was as great defensively as he was offensively, maybe even better. There have only been 17 third basemen selected to the HOF, the least among all positions, with the exception of relief pitchers.
Rolen is somebody whose offensive stats weren’t overwhelming, but they were more than good enough to complement his outstanding defense.
First off, he accumulated 70.1 B-WAR, 10th best all-time among third basemen. Of the other nine, eight are in the Hall of Fame and Adrian Beltre is expected to earn induction when he becomes eligible next year.
Just eight Hall of Famer third basemen have a higher career OPS than Rolen’s .855. Ten HOF third baseman have a better OPS+ than Rolen’s 122.
Rolen had a .281/361/.490 line with 316 home runs and 1,287 RBI.
He was a seven-time All-Star, the 1997 National League Rookie of the Year and an eight-time Gold Glove winner and earned one Silver Slugger award in 2002.
Rolen played in the postseason five different times and won a World Series in 2006 with the St. Louis Cardinals. He hit .421/.476/.737 in the Cardinals’ World Series win in five games over the Detroit Tigers.
The 6-4, 245-pound Rolen had great defensive range, even more impressive for somebody his size. He also had a great arm.
He has improved his percentage of votes each year and Rolen is considered to have a good chance to be voted in by the writers, whether it is this year or possibly next.
Like Kent, Wagner’s time is dwindling. This is his eighth year on the ballot, although he had his best showing last year, earning 51.0% of the vote.
The biggest argument against Wagner is his lack of innings. There are eight relief pitchers in the HOF and all have pitched more than the 903 innings that Wagner threw.
Yet Wagner’s 11.9 strikeouts per nine innings is best in MLB history (minimum of 750 innings pitched).
He actually had more strikeouts (1,196) than the greatest reliever of all time, Mariano Rivera. Rivera struck out 1,173 in 1,282 2/3 innings.
According to MLB.com, Wagner had 422 saves in 476 opportunities (88.6 percent). Only two Hall of Fame relievers have a higher save percentage, Rivera (89.1%) and Trevor Hoffman (88.8%).
Wagner also has a higher strikeout ratio (33.2%) than any reliever in the HOF. The closest is Hoffman (25.8%).
Wagner finished with a 2.37 ERA and a 187 adjusted ERA and Rivera is the only HOF relief pitcher who bettered those totals.
Wagner was a seven-time all-star and besides the lack of innings, his other blemish is his postseason performance.
He qualified for the postseason seven times and had a 10.03 ERA in 14 appearances totaling 11 2/3 innings. His postseason WHIP was 1.971.
Yikes.
Still that is a small sample size even if it is in the most pressurized setting.
Even with the lack of innings and a shaky postseason, Wagner’s dominance in the regular season, puts him on this ballot.
Don’t let the haters annoy you Marc. Your take on steroid guys is undeniably correct. Great ballot and hope to see you here again a year from now!
Great article
Wow, my post was eaten up by cold conditions, or my failure to hit the save button (my guess, my failure to launch). Great subject, who used, who didn’t, who earned it, who should lose it….You go MLBTR…
I had always heard Billy Wagner was a right handed pitcher that blew out his arm. He switched to pitching left handed and had a HOF career.
While Helton had the advantage of playing in Colorado, he was still a force to be reckoned with.
Kent belongs in the Hall as does Billy Wagner
Mark Beuhrle was a WAY more valuable pitcher than Billy Wagner.
“Buehrle” was great!
Definitely a mistake to leave him off ballot.
If he got in, Buehrle would have the highest ERA of any starter in the Hall. I’m not saying ERA is a perfect stat, by any means. However, he just wasn’t a Hall of Fame pitcher. Hall of the Very Good, yeah.
TheMan3: I agree w you re Helton and leaning towards Wagner. However I think Buehrle is more worthy than Wagner. I see Andruw Jones as more HOF worthy than Kent. At least imo if it’s based SOLELY on offense then ok on Kent but as an overall second baseman which INCLUDES DEFENSE he comes up short as a HOF player.
Agree entirely. Barry’s record breaking ball in Cooperstown has a big asterisk branded on it. If I could post pics here I would. Keep fighting the good fight.
Marc, keep up the good fight with rhoid monkeys, Barry’s record ball is in hall albeit with a huge branded *.
If you post it a couple more times it might help your point, Arnold.
Rolen is the only one of those four I would vote for. The other three, all certainly very good players, fall short of the historic threshold that has defined making the HOF. Beltran has to get in at some point. But if you look at the people who have recently retired or are about to retire: Pujols, M. Cabrera, Posey— are far more slam dunk cases.
Bonds should have made the HOF. Top 5 all time player with or without roids.
If McGwire’s “record-breaking” 61st hr to break Maris’ record was erased, why don’t they do the same with Bonds’ “records”? It is a slap in the face to Aaron who set the all-time hr record with pure talent, not PEDs. In my opinion, Aaron is the no.1 hr hitter of all time followed by Ruth and the great Albert Pujols.
only problem with your post is that mcgwires hr was not erased
avenger65, in addition to McGwire’s HRs not being erased, it was #62 that broke Maris’ record, not #61.
@Highest he wasn’t top 5 before he began using steroids
Everybody was on steroids and I would bet the majority still are.
Well, at least it’s more consistent than last year’s ballot
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Marc. I appreciate when voters are open about what forms their decisions and are not afraid to be diagreed with. Also, for not voting Rollins just because he was a Philly favorite.
Todd Helton lmao.
Guy heard of a park factor or nah?
Did you read his explanation or nah?
Yeah, none of it made sense. He had a career .469 slugging away from Coors, which is far from HOF-worthy as a 1B. 55 career fWAR. Not close dawg
In 2022 his .469 slugging would have been top 10 in the league. His ops of .855 (.387+.469) would have been top 4. For 1B
You also forget to take into consideration the era he played was different than today’s game of launch angle and power where batting average was the standard.
So what exactly don’t you understand?
Great. Helton didn’t play in 2022. This is precisely why park, league and era adjustment is always necessary. Raw stats aren’t useful whatsoever.
Batting average wasn’t the ‘standard’ in any era. Dudes have always endeavored to drive the ball as much as possible and certainly did so in the steroid era
You never watched baseball before the analytic era did you. You have no clue about things like 2 strike approach without googling what that is do you? You do realize batting averages keep going down as the game has evolved right man? Cause the game doesn’t value it like it once did.
The 2022 was to you an idea of how good helton was compared to todays competition. You’ve yet to discredit him as a HOF candidate. Every example you given has been pretty weak.
Slugging percentages and isolated power numbers, as you just referenced, were much higher in that era. Not sure what else needs to be said. Just give up and take the L, gramps
You’re outclassed kid. Have been this entire time. Maybe if schools taught you math these days you’d actually be able to participate in this conversation without everyone laughing at you. You really compared his stats against steroids users and said it’s his fault he didn’t have higher slugging than thm? Well that’s certainly a take.
And you know he wasn’t on steroids….how?
Anyways. Merry Christmas kid. Hopefully someone bought you a history of baseball book or something. Cause your knowledge on the history of the game is really sad man.
The fact that you talk about Coors Field and then cite WAR as a justification for your opinion suggests that you don’t know that
WAR is park-adjusted.
As for Helton’s fWAR, it’s higher than the fWAR of the following HOF players:
Ted Simmons, Vlad Guerrero, Enos Slaughter, Joe Medwick, Jimmy Collins, Harry Hooper, Bobby Doerr, Jim O’Rourke, George Sisler, Larry Doby, David Ortiz, Jim Rice, Minnie Minoso, Mickey Cochrane, Orlando Cepeda, Sam Rice, Tony Lazzeri, Luis Aparicio . . . etc,
Your job is to prove he was if you suspect so. Not my job to prove he wasn’t.
Cool. None of those guys are deserving either.
I’m also well aware WAR is park-adjusted. What’s your point? He still falls well short of the threshold
You’re aware that it’s park-adjusted now — since I told you.
Had you known that before, it’d have made zero sense for you to complain that he played at Coors Field and then cite WAR as your erroneous justification for denying his HOF worthiness.
You should probably stop now.
Your processing speed is a little slow. We get it. Again, he’s under the WAR threshold. I referenced Coors cuz the dude doing the ballot clearly doesn’t get it (since he spent 80% of his explanation listing raw numbers).
Good luck w the cognitive issues dude
I notice that the more your arguments fall apart and the inherent contradictions are pointed out to you, the more you resort to insults. Insults are a poor substitute for an argument, and they don’t reflect well on you.
Again — you should probably stop now.
It’s Christmas Day, not a time to be spent with an angry fellow like you, so I’ll leave you to it.
It’s okay to be wrong. We all make mistakes.
It’s easy to see the steroid takers from the clean players. In one year bonds shoe size went up by five sizes. His physical stature alarmed those who saw him. He was like the Incredible Hulk, bursting out of his clothes. Plus, he even admitted on camera that he took performance enhancing drugs. None of his records post-PEDs should count and he should should never be in the Hof except as a visitor.
When Helton – as well as all of the Hof’s mentioned above – played before all of these ridiculous analytics. A bit was a hit whether it was in Colorado or Boston. Who cares how far, the exit velocity, the angle, etc. a hr is hit. A hr is a hr. All these analytics have meaning for coaches and managers. To me they’re just crap and take away from a player’s actual and defensive performances.
Cool story, bro.
It’s called the Dunning-Kruger effect. Basically his lack of knowledge and skills has lead him to overestimate his competence. Arguing with him using facts and logic will only increase his stubborness.
As for Helton’s fWAR, it’s higher than the fWAR of the following HOF players:
Ted Simmons, Vlad Guerrero, Enos Slaughter, Joe Medwick, Jimmy Collins, Harry Hooper, Bobby Doerr, Jim O’Rourke, George Sisler, Larry Doby, David Ortiz, Jim Rice, Minnie Minoso, Mickey Cochrane, Orlando Cepeda, Sam Rice, Tony Lazzeri, Luis Aparicio .
=================================
You can’t compare WAR between a 1B and guys that are catchers and shortstops, Gold Glovers, etc.
“It’s easy to see the steroid takers from the clean players.”
You knew Tatis, Jr. was juicing, just by looking at him? And Ramon Laureano? Tim Beckham? J. C. Mejía? Hector Santiago? Robinson Cano? Melky Cabrera? Dee Gordon? Francisco Cervelli? Yasmani Grandal? Cameron Maybin?
Which of those guys was bursting out of his clothes? Dee Gordon looked like the Incredible Hulk?
WAR is positionally adjusted too, Joe.
Wow, outsider reading, but Gmoney got smoked. Poor effort on his part. Very visible.
Bro said Vlad Guerrero is not Hall worthy. LMAO.
Nah, he didn’t
He spent the majority of his time referencing raw numbers, none or which are relevant, given that he played half his home games in Colorado. Obv he wouldn’t have hit .372 in 2000 or .300 for his career if he’d played away from Coors, not that BA means anything anyway
Half his games*
He still had a 133 career OPS+, which accounts for park factor. He also has 4 silver slugger awards, something pretty meaningful given the era and how many solid 1B sluggers there were at the time.
Silver slugger is entirely subjective and means nothing. 133 ops+ isn’t even top 125 all time and he played the least premium position. He’s not a hall of famer
Utilizing any statistic in baseball requires interpretation, as people value certain things differently… so every hall of fame resume is based on some form of opinion, otherwise all votes would be based on bWAR and fWAR. I mean, MVP is entirely subjective, too, but voters still give weight to these things. It’s just a fact.
I’m not even necessarily suggesting I’d vote for him; I’m just saying he was well above just good offensively despite playing at Coors. He’s the second best 1B of the 00s.
Berkman had a 144 wRC+ and more fWAR than Helton in 1600 fewer PA. Much more deserving imo
He would have just hit .353/.441/.663 in 2000 which was his away stat line that year.
You keep citing WAR. War is park-adjusted.
You’re undermining your own argument.
You don’t understand the argument. He’s still short of the WAR threshold
Try harder brah. Maybe take some CBD or something
When you post nonsense, it’s not really the best time to talk trash to other commenters.
Nice hammering, Fink.
I didn’t want to hammer the guy. I just wanted to correct his errors. Unfortunately, he didn’t take well to being corrected. No hard feelings from my side. I hope he feels better and enjoys the rest of the evening.
Well played Ployed.
There were no errors. He doesn’t meet the threshold.
Players w higher fWAR than Helton:
Rolen, Lofton, Andruw, Edmonds, Olerud, Berkman, Reggie Smith, Chase Utley, Buddy Bell, Billy Williams, Dwight Evans, Darrell Evans, Keith Hernandez, Bobby Abreu, Robin Ventura, Ron Cey, Luis Gonzalez, Russell Martin.
Russell Martin. Lmao. Should he be in too?
I mentored Coors because the author cited a bunch of raw stats. Not complicated.
Mentioned*
It’s like yesterday when dude tried to cite 4 player-seasons out of a possible 3993598544 as evidence that xFIP wasn’t the best predictor of future success. Lmaooooo
Reasoning just isn’t his strength, kids. It’s a tough scene
From Todd Helton’s page on Baseball Reference:
Similar Batters
Jeff Bagwell (859.7) *
Edgar Martinez (847.0) *
Luis Gonzalez (836.1)
Vladimir Guerrero (835.8) *
Orlando Cepeda (829.0) *
Andres Galarraga (828.5)
Larry Walker (819.1) *
Jim Rice (813.5) *
Joey Votto (808.8)
Fred McGriff (805.9) *
* – Signifies Hall of Famer
And also from Baseball Reference, the Hall of Fame Monitor:
baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_1B.shtml
Again, facts are more effective than insults.
“Similarity score” from a junk-stat website. Yikes
Now Baseball Reference is “a junk-stat website,” eh? That’s an interesting variation on an ad hominem argument, which seems to be a specialty of yours.
Since you seem to favor Fangraphs, read this from Sam Jaffe, Senior Writer at Fangraphs and author of “The Cooperstown Casebook”:
“Thanks to Helton’s staying power, and to advanced statistics that adjust for the high-offense environment in a particularly high-scoring period in baseball history, we can more clearly see that he ranked among his era’s best players, and has credentials that wouldn’t be out of place in Cooperstown.”
blogs.fangraphs.com/jaws-and-the-2023-hall-of-fame…
Gmoney: stop!
Oops! Jay Jaffe, not Sam Jaffe. The latter was an actor.
See? We all make mistakes. It’s human.
Let him be. He’s out of his league on this one.
Hof is about being one of the best during the time you played.
Looking at 1997-2013 Heltons career minimum 5,000 plate appearances though Helton had nearly 9,500
He ranks
3rd in BA
1st in OBP
7th in slugging
5th in OBP
5th best walk percentage
6th best k percentage
15th best iso
Helton was one of the best 1b around but played in the same era as Albert Pujols and Miguel Cabrera you know generational hof talents.
Beltran and Ortiz’s HOF cases are going to be interesting. Beltran 100% cheated and I know people are goi by to come out and defend him but Ortiz is known to have failed a drug test. If you let even one known PED user in how are you going to justify no Bonds or Clemens who were without a doubt better than Ortiz.
Ortiz was already voted in.
I heard, through the grapevine, Ortiz was a PED frequent flier, this stuff needs to be researched…
I like his ballot and actually seeing what the ballot looks like with the eligible names listed reinforces to you how hard it is to make the MLB Hall of Fame. There are a lot of very good players who were Bonafide stars during their careers listed on that ballot yet it shows you the difference between Hall of Very Good and Cooperstown.
@JoeItAll. To be honest the entire list is Hall of Very Good for my own personal taste. But I find Andrew Jones left off a total mystery, and any roid speculation a moot point on Andruw Jones. Jeff Kent didn’t do roids? If a writer wants to make a roid case about a suspicious player..then I wonder what recourse he/she would have. I don’t know…write about it. Hall voting and the Hall is a mess. There’s no player on that ballot that is a non-argument…and that to me is what signifies a HOF player…that level of consensus.
Juicers should never sniff the hall of fame FACT
OPINION
David Ortiz
A lot of cheats in the HOF as it stands so shouldn’t we remove them as well or just your opinion on guys you don’t like?
Who are the confirmed ped users in the Hall Of Fame?
Doesn’t have to be confirmed. Its stupid to think that of all the players in the hall.. none of them used steroids or cheated in some way
He didn’t say PED users. He said cheats. There are several HOF pitchers who readily admitted that they doctored the baseball. There are probably dozens or more HOF players who used PEDs — amphetamine is a PED banned by the league now (although dozens of MLB players have “therapeutic-use exemptions” to use Adderall, an amphetamine) and long-banned by the World Anti-Doping Agency. Lance Armstrong was cited for using amphetamines. “Greenies” were so prevalent in the past that clubs had two pots of coffee in the clubhouse: one regular, one spiked with amphetamines. Even Hank Aaron confessed in his autobiography that he took greenies once. He said he didn’t like the effect and never took them again.
There are other forms of cheating, like the 2017 Astros and the 1919 Black Sox. And don’t even get me started on the 1894-98 Baltimore Orioles.
I thought it was understood that the conversation leans toward ped users. His argument was made with Ortiz in mind. See the post he originally replied to. I know about cheaters like Gaylord Perry, who shouldn’t be a Hall Of Famer, in my opinion. But how few like him are known? Which other Hall of Famers are confirmed to have rubbed foreign substances on baseballs, or altered the balls in some other way? For every cheater who rubbed crap on the balls or altered their bat illegally, there are many more who used ped’s. There was very little risk in being caught or penalized for decades since MLB allowed it, while altering baseballs or bats came with a much higher risk of repercussions.
Greenies aren’t as effective as ped’s used by modern players or we’d still be hearing about them as the preferred ped of choice. They didn’t give most users the desired effect so other drugs became the go-to.
I don’t think Lance Armstrong is relevant here. Cycling isn’t comparable to baseball. The reasons for cyclists and baseball players using ped’s may not even be completely the same. The need for endurance is a commonality, but the level of concentration, and perhaps muscle strength needed between the two sports aren’t comparable.
Amphetamines enhance concentration and endurance. Adderall is used to tread ADHD — it’s also addictive and classified as a Schedule II drug.
We’re still hearing about amphetamines in baseball.
“I don’t want to say guys are addicted, but it’s like putting on your uniform. You have your glove, your batting gloves, your bat, you take your greenie and you’re ready to go.”
—Chipper Jones (as quoted in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette)
“They can stone cold kill you immediately,” said Charles Yesalis, an oft-quoted professor from Penn State who is an acknowledged expert in the field of performance-enhancing drugs. In an interview with the AP last year, Yesalis said “[amphetamines] dwarf steroids as potentially dangerous drugs.”
baseballprospectus.com/news/article/4740/under-the…
‘Adderall is a performance-enhancing drug that is being abused in baseball to the point of statistical absurdity. Doctors estimate 4.4 percent of the general adult population suffers from ADD and other disorders that would legitimize a prescription for Adderall, but this season more than double that percentage of MLB players — roughly 9.9 percent of 40-man rosters league-wide, 119 players overall last year — presented baseball with notes from their doctor that they required such medication. …
“It’s cheating,” says Dr. Richard Lustberg, a New York State Licensed Psychologist and member of the American Psychological Association. “It does provide you with energy that you wouldn’t normally have.”
cbssports.com/general/news/adderall-the-new-drug-o…
It was never proven that Perry cheated no matter how many times umpires went to the mound to try to find whatever substance they thought he was using to make the ball move the way it did. Perry got a kick out of all the times umps tried to find proof, but they never did. He belongs in the Hof.
He not only admitted it — he bragged about it:
“Man, I tried everything,” Perry once said. “When my wife was having babies, the doctor would send over all kinds of stuff and I’d try that, too. Once I even used fishing line oil.” Perry wrote in ‘Me and the Spitter: An Autobiographical Confession,’ “I reckon I tried everything on the old apple but salt and pepper and chocolate sauce topping.”
nj.com/yankees/2022/12/hall-of-famer-gaylord-perry…
Trying to picture products like slippery elm being used in the process of making a baby.
Going go have to boot some then.
Scott Rolen is the epitome of how much personality matters and it shouldn’t. Great guy but 350 homers? It’s the hall of very good now, so sure vote him in. We all know it’s a joke now.
Rolen 100% deserves to be in when you take both his offense and defense into account. That being said making the HoF has meant a whole lot less since Harold Baines got in.
The hall of fame is a popularity contest. It seems to matter more to these writers that you were a great person and not a great baseball player.
Writer’s have to understand that there are some years when it’s ok if there’s a year when no one gets in. The level of players getting into the Hof are a stretch and need some excuse by the writer’s (“his offense was average but his defense was good”; “he was a good power hitter but, even though he batted .240, his mother loved him”) to make sure SOMEONE gets in.
Could not agree more. If you are a good guy, suspected of juice, you still get in, Ortiz. If they don’t like you for whatever reason, Sosa, you don’t get it. The hypocrisy is laughable. Sadly no fan I know cares about this anymore. It used to be a big deal.
Rolen has a higher bWAR than these Hall of Famers, and these are just a few:
Tim Raines, Eddie Murray, Ivan Rodriguez, Carlton Fisk, Edgar Martinez, Pee Wee Reese, Al Simmons, Ryne Sandberg, Fred Clarke, Ernie Banks, Roberto Alomar, Duke Snider, Craig Biggio, Andre Dawson, Willie McCovey, Richie Ashburn, Dave Winfield, Jackie Robinson, Mike Piazza, Vlad Guerrero, Harmon Killebrew, Yogi Berra
There are many more.
So you’re saying that Rolen was as good or better than Carlton Fisk, Al Simmons, Jackie Robinson and Ernie Banks – who anyone who knows bb knows they proved they were bona fide hof’ers – based not on what they saw but on some stupid analytic? I’d take those four over Rolen any day in spite of his “bWAR”.
Okay, so Rolen is excluded from your Hall of Fame.
Since you don’t like newer metrics, I’ll mention that Rolen had more extra-base hits than Derek Jeter, Rickey Henderson, Joe Medwick, Duke Snider, Roberto Clemente, Carlton Fisk, Brooks Robinson, etc.
He had a higher slugging percentage than Reggie Jackson, George Brett, Gil Hodges, Bill Dickey, Yogi Berra, Al Kaline, Kirby Puckett, Jackie Robinson, etc.
He had a higher OPS than Tony Gwynn, Reggie Jackson, Carl Yastrzemski, Eddie Murray, Yogi Berra, Dave Winfield, etc.
Does that help at all?
Comparing Rolen to Eddie Murray is a slap in Eddie’s face. Please stop, just stop.
Top 10 all time in fwar for a 3B. Clearly belongs
May as well throw Brooks Robinson out with his paltry 268 HR then, too.
@dpsmith22,
I agree with your take, but for a low-key guy like Scott Rolen to be held back because of his personality, he must’ve been a huge turd in the (clubhouse) punchbowl. He talked his out way out of town at least twice.
Great player, though. Skills-wise, he’s HoF worthy.
Pettitte should be in.
He’s a PED user Pettite better not sniff the HoF until Bonds and Clemens get in.
Pettite is one of my favorite players ever. He doesn’t deserve the HOF.
Nope.
Pettitte was Chuck Finley, just on good teams. Not HOF worthy.
Say what you will about Andy Pettitte, but he never once lost a fistfight to Tawny Kitaen (R.I.P.).
This really puts in perspective for Todd Helton. Hope he makes it in!
Beltran will get in. Gaylord Perry made it so it’s ridiculous to not vote for Carlos for cheating.
To each their own I think what Beltran did is a bit worse than what Perry did. Shoeless Joe still isn’t in and the man was the only one on the team not trying to throw that World Series
Jackson was arguably the second best hitter of all time. He was the only player Ty Cobb feared would beat him out of a batting title. Jackson was an ignorant farm boy. He mistakenly admitted to being part of the black Sox. He was given a lifetime ban from MLB. Jackson died in the 1950s. He served his sentence. It’s time to put him in the Hof where he belongs.
I don’t have the exact number on hand but didn’t he also hit like .380-.400 that World Series with spectacular defense?
Jackson hit .375 Weaver .305. No other banned player was close.
He admitted to taking money.
Why did he take off Schilling when he had him last year?
Last year was Schilling’s last year on the general ballot
Ahh I thought he had 1 more year. I really avoided the hall of fame vote this year since it’s the same arguments every year. Thanks
He’s off the ballot?
F any list without Bonds
Bruh, dude isn’t even eligible anymore.
Bonds is a geek and he’s never getting in, get over it.
F anybody that would vote for Bonds, or any other steroid user. You obviously have no understanding of what The Game means… No one player, is or will ever be, greater than The Game.
You’re right Titanic. We have to protect the sanctimony of The Game. And let me tell you, those wife beaters, racists, sexual predators, recreational drug users, addicts, alcoholics, spitballers, and yes, PED users (yeah, they’re already inside) would certainly reject any candidate who took something to give him an edge. C’mon, what are doing here? Let them all in. It doesn’t matter because we already have known and even admitted PED users who are in the HoF. What don’t people understand about that obvious fact??
F both of you for dropping the F bomb,
Shame on you for not voting for A-Rod. I’m sure you cheered for him as you watched his baseball greatness. But, you took it upon yourself to be judge, jury and executioner. I’m sure a hypocrite. And you claim to know baseball… 37 years blah blah blah… get out of here.
A-Rod knowingly broke a rule several times. Most of the game’s fans root(ed) agaisnt him.
And yet, he was still one of the best players of all time. Ty Cobb broke rules several times and yet he rightly sits enshrined for all time as one of the greatest players ever. A Rod, Bonds, Clemens, and others deserve that recognition as well because like them or not, they were among the greatest to ever play the game.
Cobb didn’t use anything but pure natural ability to become the greatest hitter of all time. His “crimes” had to do with his temper and he was punished for them. It was a different day.
Cobb was almost definitely on cocaine. It was legal, but it as far from pure.
BTW, most fans also rooted against Jackie Robinson. That alone makes that just a bad argument.
I’m not saying fan sentiment should have anything to do with enshrinemnet, OP did. And either way, we both know that the hate that Robinson got was much more nefarious than the main reason why people despise A-Rod.
If Jeff Kent makes it and Omar Vizquel doesn’t, things are way wrong. Voting shoyld be based on numbers, on merits, not personal vendettas. You already have the man with most hits and the one with more homers out.
Uh, sure, let’s chalk the Vizquel thing up to “vendettas” as opposed to him being a collosal piece of garbage.
Omar vizquel a hofer? LOL. Is he your dad? Good defender. Zero power. Played forever. Career ops+ of 82. Everyone is a hall of famer now i guess
vizquel harassed several minor league staff as a coach shortly after playing. several people in the white sox org fired because of it.
If no Beltran, then no vizquel.
it is a kids game for players they look up to.
I would decline the opportunity to vote. It wouldn’t give me any feeling of satisfaction. Just too many cheaters and possible cheaters, but I don’t have any bad feelings toward voters who vote for players without any record of cheating.
Where’s Pete O’Brien? With Pete, your ballot would get Rave Reviews.
Bringing back an unfunny joke that got way old six years ago when it doesn’t really even apply to anything. I guess that is one way to go. Merry Christmas.
Same to you and the rest of the Grinch Family.
Never any love for Andruw Jones. One of the best defensive center fielders ever.
Yeah, I like those included on this list but Jones is one that should also be on it.
Best defensive centerfielder of all-time had over 400 home runs. If his health and performance didn’t essentially fall off a cliff, he’d be in the Hall already.
Also HoF’ers Maddux, Smoltz, and Glavine all credited Jones’ defensive-prowess which effected the way they pitched.
Never understood the lack of love for Jones.
Should definitely be in the Hof.
From 1998 through 2006 he was one of the top players in the game.
Kent, Rolen and Wagner for me. I’m kind of surprised Kent has lasted this long without getting in
I would vote for JJ Hardy and no one else.
The fact of the matter is:
1. We still don’t know how many guys did steroids in that era, and I wouldn’t be surprised at all if guys on this list are involved. (Despite steroids being legal in the MLB at that time, which may be in used in bad faith but not “cheating”).
2. The take on that era is overwhelmingly different amongst the millennial fanbase, like myself. We grew up with that era and wouldn’t be into baseball to this day if it weren’t for players like Barry Bonds. The refusal to acknowledge our favorite players is alienating a huge section of the fanbase and I am convinced that it is contributing to our lack of interest in modern baseball. We don’t like being told our relationship with baseball is invalid and deserves no recognition.
3. People care less and less about the the HoF every year and I’m sure my previous two points are big factors. People have come to be indifferent to the opinions of a council of mostly sports writers who make a living putting down players. Without official association with people who’s opinions we actually respect, it will continue to become more irrelevant over time.
Awww.. did we hurt your feelings? Do you need a space for timeout? Take your participation trophy from Little League and take as much time as you need…over there.
@youngliam; nice post. Enjoyed reading it.
IMO HOF voting is a very subjective process thus skewed in 2 ways.
1. If the voting media doesn’t like you, good luck getting in or at least in a timely fashion.
2. The voting media is too influenced by public opinion.
Today, good luck getting in if you are associated with steroid use (ex. Bonds, Clemens). Times change; maybe down the road public opinion wanes and these guys get in. Admitted cheaters are in the HOF. (ex. Gaylord Perry, RIP)
Also, if your political views are in the minority and you are vocal about it, you’re screwed (ex. Schilling).
Just because you grew up at a time when PEDs we’re prevalent and we’re the “norm” doesn’t make it right. I’m sure during your time on earth you’ve seen things that you know are wrong without having to debate about it. When you saw Bonds post-PEDs without having seen him play pre-PEDs, you might have thought what he did on the field was normal. It was anything but. I know a lot about bb going back way before I was born because I love the game and wanted to know more. I would advise you to look closer into bonds career. Yes, he’s have always been the big draw in the game since the end of the dead ball era. But getting them because you’ve turned yourself into the Hulk kind of takes the thrill out of it.
How do you vote for Scott Rolen and not Andruw Jones?
No Gary Sheffield
Sheffield put up some big numbers. Surprised he doesn’t get more HOF talk.
He’s also got that steroid thing hanging over him…
Billy Wagner would get my only vote.
Stopped reading after I saw no check next to Andruw Jones.
Billy Wagner is a HOF’er.
Should be, I agree!
I see the HOF in three classes. The A-level players are your Pedros and your Mayes level players, obvious first ballots. The B-level are those guys that belong, for sure, but aren’t the inner circle. The c-level guys could be left out and a few fans would be pissed but most of us shrug, and could be admitted and most of us shrug while a few “small hall” folks are grouchy.
All of these guys are C-level. I don’t object to any of these votes, but nobody but a few fans are going to miss them if they don’t make it. Nobody’s going to complain that the history of baseball is incomplete without covering the careers of Helton and Rolen.
Excellent take on the Hof.
I’d take what Yankee and Dodgers players say with a grain of salt. Beltran learned how to steal signs in New York and nobody achieved more from electronic sign stealing than Cody Bellinger.
Yeah, I have been writing for some time now how Belli was cheating. Look, it wasn’t just the Astros folks. There were several teams using the electronic feeds illegally. Not saying it was right, but it just goes to show what lengths ultra-competitive athletes will go to in order to gain an advantage.
No red flags for Jeff Kent? He was in San Fran when Barry was there. Then he went to another roid infested team the Astros. His power was mediocre for years and then took off after he got to San Fran at age 29. Huge power ages 29 to 37. Ages 24 to 28 he averaged 16 homers and a .274 average… Goes to San Fran and Ages 29 to 37 average 28 homers and .296 average.
F the HoF.. Any Hall that doesn’t have Clemens, Bonds, McGwire and Sosa is a fake
So you have no issues with cheating, gotcha.
Not as big of an issue as a bunch of geriatric deciding that an entire era of stats is unsuitable to appear in their sacred hall. They were the best ever, period.
Imo, Wagner was a more effective close than Trevor Hoffman. Hoffman had longevity and a longer career on his side, but Wagner had a better ERA, ERA+, FIP, WHIP, K%, K:BB ratio, home run rate, and hits-per-9 innings. Hoff had about 180 innings on Wagner, which means a higher WAR and save total, but that’s about all he has on Wagner.
One guy I think deserves more credit than people give him is Bobby Abreu. Nearly 2500 hits, 400 stolen bases 288 home runs, career .870 OPS and 128 OPS+, and 60.2 bWAR. Baseball Reference JAWS sandwiches him right in-between Vlad Guerrero Sr. and Dave Winfield. If I had 10 votes, I definitley would at least highly consider him. Very underrate career.
tOPS+ at Coors 119, on the road 80. 80. Helton’s OPS split away from Coors was 80. A well below average hitter away from Coors. Not a hall of famer.
Pete Rose needs to be elected before he dies. Long before the roid junkies get in.
Roid users are already in
Nah.
lmao
Life cannot be to bad when your 70-80 years old and have a trophy girlfriend like Kiana Kim. I am not sure the ban will ever be lifted on Charlie Hustle. It’s doubtful any hitter ever approaches the 4000 career hit total mark again.
Rose will never be voted in the way things are now. But that doesn’t matter. BB fans already know that only the second player on BB history to get over 4000 hits is a Hof’er whether he’s in the hall or not.
Rose will never get in. Certainly not while he’s alive, anyway. It’s too bad cuz I agree that any bb museum that doesn’t include it’s hit king is a joke IMO.
The same people who use Coors Field as an excuse to exclude Helton will ignore Yankee Statdium III dementions when evaluating their guys.
The altitude is a legitimate scientifically proven factor though. Any player who plays their entire career/a large portion of their games at Coors needs to have their away stats heavily weighed when gauging a HoF case.
It’s not ignoring, tOPS+ at Coors 119, away from Coors 80. Any ballpark can be looked at as a split for a batter, and yes that includes Yankee stadium III
Seems like the HOF is starting to get watered down. Hall was not meant for great players. It was meant for the elite. The best of the best.
It’s the hall of FAME, not the hall of stats. The elite hasn’t been the bar in 50+ years.
Even longer. The 40s and early 50s is when the less than elite players from the early 1900s started getting voted in by their former teammates
If Lou Whitaker is not worthy of being in the Hall Of Fame, Helton, Kent, Rolen or Wagner don’t deserve entry either. What a joke that unqualified individuals who did not even play the game have the say as to who gets into this place. Who EVEN CARES!!!!
Apparently you do. Otherwise it would be silly for you to be so upset about it.
You might need to cut down on the caffeine there Jay, but I get your point. Do you feel it’s racially motivated in any way?
Not that I paid close attention, but never quite understood why Kent wasn’t HOF material.
I feel like saying Jeff Kent hit more homers than any other second baseman while acknowledging that he wasn’t good enough defensively to play the position, is more an indictment of the team choosing to use a player out of position than proving he is a hall of fame 2nd baseman based on home runs alone. Jeff Kent is just not nearly a good enough player to be considered a hall of famer.
@Mystery13 “Jeff Kent is just not nearly a good enough player to be considered a hall of famer”
But David Ortiz is?? At least Kent played a position on the field whereas Ortiz was a DH most of his career. Ortiz is also a known PED user.
Did I say that? I had an opinion about Jeff Kent, I made no mention about any other baseball player at all.
What is with people just making up arguments based on absolutely nothing.
However, since you mentioned him, Ortiz and Kent have basically the same career bwar, and Ortiz as you mentioned doesn’t have the defensive advantage. He has more homers, more RBI’s, a higher obp, a higher slugging, and his career ops+ is 18 points higher.
I still remain unconvinced a career DH belongs in the HoF. It’s one thing if an aging player DHs later in their career (Paul Molitor comes to mind) but Ortiz legitimately spent more of his career on the bench than on the grass and that’s not even considering his failed drug test.
@mystery13, agreed, Kent has a career negative dWAR, he should not have been playing second base. How many home runs he hit playing out of position is irrelevant.
Jones, Wagner, Kent and Rolen would get my vote
I’m a ‘no’ on Kent because I believe defense matters. I wouldn’t vote for Wagner cuz the ‘save’ is such a meaningless stat. Rolen is a tough one for me. I look at his numbers and think, damn, he did better than I remembered. Yet I just never once – not for a second – looked at him as a HofF type player during his career. Jones is deserving, I could roll with that. But why he so suddenly fell of a cliff like that does raise a few q’s for me.
Thank you for the insightful article Marc. Here’s my two cents Werth.
Kent, Rolen, Wagner and Helton all get my votes too. Also deserving to be in the HOF would be Curt Schilling and Lance Berkman who obviously already fell off the list of eligibility. There’s one common thread running through this injustice not discussed that needs to be addressed too.
The ONLY reason these players mentioned in the article didn’t get in the HOF including Schilling and Berkman is because of “woke” activist sports writers and the so-called “progressive” left main stream media. Apparently the collective sports writers suffer from “white guilt”. Punishing these players for their perceived collective “white privilege” only makes the “virtue signalers” feel like they’ve accomplished something promoting “social justice”. In reality though, injustice based on race and not merits only promotes more division, racism and hate.
I’m tired of people using “woke” for every time they disagree with something. It’s gotten to the point where people don’t even know what woke is. It means “awaken”, as in seeing the truth for the first time.
The right wing nuts have nothing better to do than invent words to appeal to their collective lack of initiative and overall inability to add anything intelligent to the political discourse or the need to create divisiveness and run on sentences of questionable value to the essence of understanding what is really going on in the world which is decidedly different than what is going on in their heads because they spent all their formative years and valuable time developing the words that they secretly communicate with each other with which is just great for them, isn’t it, or is it all just a waste of vacuous empty statements.
January 6th is right around the corner.
Hmm. You do realize that you put all that drivel into a single sentence, right?
The fact that Beltran was the ONLY player mentioned says volumes in my book, and I too would leave him off.
Here’s my ballot: Billy Wagner.
If Ozzie Smith is in the Hall, David Concepcion deserves to be there as well. Unfortunately, that will never happen now. He’s one of the greatest Shortstops to ever play this game!
It should be former players/managers that get to vote. The ones that know what it actually takes.
Jeff Kent had sexy numbers and a sexy stache to go with them.
It’s a shame he isn’t just getting into the HOF because of the stache!
Jeff Kent belongs in the HOF.
Prove me wrong!
Oh and P.S. I’m a Dodger fan.
@DodgerDan, Dodger fan here as well. Kent had a career WAR of 55.4 and an OPS+ of 123. His defense was below average, arguably he should have not have been playing 2B. Bobby Grich career WAR 71.1 an OPS+ of 125, 4 GG’s and he received 2.6% of the vote in his only year on the ballot. If the hall of fame bar is way above Grich’s head than Jeff Kent shouldn’t even be a consideration.
Grich should’ve been a 1st ballot HOF. Baseball writers know very little about baseball.
Yes, how dare those baseball writers not include stats that hadn’t been invented yet in their determination when Grich was on the ballot. Damn cavemen.
Grich didn’t get in because he was on the ballot in 1992 and walks were not as highly valued in 1992. At least not over hits and Grich “only” had 1833 hits in his career. That is a fine career, but hardly Hall of Fame worthy in 1992.
If sexy staches we’re the criteria to get into the Hof, the whole 1972 A’s team should be in.
It’s seems like Jeff Kent is being singled out for non-exclusion to the HOF because of his average defensive skills. Yet most of the players in the HOF are there because of their offensive numbers—and as the author points out—Jeff Kent has outstanding numbers for a second baseman. It seems like an unfair double standard that others Hall of Famers are not held to. Let the man in!
Kent – top 3 offensive second baseman (Hall worthy)
Wagner – top 3 relief pitchers (Hall worthy)
Rolen – top 10 offensive and top 10 defensive third basemen (Hall worthy)
These 3 should be in.
I agree with your 4 selections, but it’s ok that David Ortiz failed a drug test and is in? Or that Bud Selig is in, even though he knew what the players were doing and yet did nothing to stop it because it was saving baseball? Then you have Ivan Rodriguez, who was named Canseco’s book and was a teammate of Palmeiro as well in Texas. Jeff Bagwell & Mike Piazza don’t pass the smell test either. If they are all in, then you have to let every positive tester in who put up good numbers. Personally I don’t want any of them in, but fair is fair.
You should not need to explain your Hall of Fame vote. If you mention their name and don’t say, “he’s a hall of famer” then they don’t belong. The hall should have like 30 players in it and they don’t need to add one or multiple players every year.
Maybe they should have a hall inside the hall for the truly best players? Ruth, Cobb, Hornsby, Bonds… LOL
Sure there’s room for the cheaters. My solution, all along has been to add a separate wing to the HOF, and put them in the new wing. It’s a win-win. They get in, and by separation, are acknowledged for their accomplishments.
Did I miss the part where the explanation of how his ballot was ripped in the bottom left?
Its only a matter of time before the MLB Hall of Fame lets everyone in like the Basketball Hall of Fame. Scott Rolen is not a hofer I’m sorry, hes not the best fielding 3rd basemen of all time. This WAR “benchmark” doesnt take into account postseason, season awards, all star selections, or in general how people felt of the player during thar time. A lot like Buerhle, definetly not a hofer. A decent pitcher that pitched for a long time is not a hofer. These guys are getting compared to the worst choices in the hof, not the mid level guys
Votes for Kent and Rolen? Only voting for 4 players but not Andruw Jones. This guy can blow off.
No Manny, Arod, or Sheffield?
This guy never even watched baseball.
He won’t vote steroid users in but votes for the 2nd baseman with the most HR ever, during the steroid era. Talk about naive, he’s just choosing who he thinks used steroids and he’s not even very good at detecting users.
What about Francisco Rodriguez?
Angry he wasn’t hyped with the mets. most players aren’t.
Did will with LA and Milwaukee.
similar numbers to Wagner.
the closers game is one inning. not two like Sutter.
There are no humans that do not lie.
There are no humans that do not cheat.
There are no pristine humans.
You cannot judge a human for simply being human.
I suspect the vast majority of voters that did not vote for Bonds or Clemens cheated in school, cheated on their wife, and cheated at work.
You are not morally superior. At best, you are morally equivalent but given your stance, it is highly likely you are morally inferior.
Or certain people desperately need to believe that everyone else is as shiftless and unethical as they are so they project it on everyone else.
And shill for bad people in the hopes of quietly sneaking in the door behind them unnoticed.
The sanctimony is strong in this one.
Embarrassment. Writers who leave Barry off their ballot should have their vote stripped, same as those who left off Jeter or Griffey. Logic test should apply.
If this weren’t the vile Internet, the discourse could be interesting and respectful.
As such, the only comment I wish to express is to convey gratitude and respect to the writer for publicizing his ballot.
There are currently 269 players in HOF. Cap it at 275. After that when you vote for someone to get in you have to add which player you think should be replaced by your pick. Think of the rhetoric and arguments that would follow—damn that would be fun.
More dilution of the HOF. Average to pretty good isn’t a qualification.
Amazing stat that Wagner had more strikeouts in ~300 less innings than Mariano Rivera. But of course, a nasty cutter resulting in a broken bat dribbler to first ends at bats in 1 pitch instead of 3+ to strike a batter out.
I guess its a sportswriters right to vote for and not vote for whoever they like and keeping steroids guys out is consistent with the mistakes that have already been made, BUT these guys Marc voted for also did roids.
HOF voters are a bunch of unmarried, fat wheezers who quit drinking years ago and hang on to their self-importance in a club of losers.
ARod is the only one I would have voted for. The Hall of Fame needs the best players ever… Not the really good players for a short period of time.
What is the argument against Manny or Sheffield?
This guy does NOT know how to use commas.
Jeff Kent but not Andruw Jones? Looks like someone as qualified to vote as any other person on the street.
People like this must be disqualified from voting. This is a caveman approach to the Hall of Fame of completely disregarding what a player would be without PEDS. Bonds had several 150 walk seasons and 30-30 years, along with 1.000 OPS seasons. He was like Juan Soto with speed. Alex Rodriguez had a 40-40 season long before the PED allegations came in and should have been an anonymous Hall of Famer before the PEDS. Ignoring Sheffield, K-Rod, Beltran (no PEDS, just some ordinary sign stealing stuff everyone does), Abreu, Jones, and maybe Werth over Rolen is a travesty. Voting for Rolen alone should disqualify this person entirely. These writers lack the credibility, stability, and intellectual capacity to process what the Hall of Fame means. It’s better to just assign a computer these and have it vote on them. At least a computer can actually think properly.
TRASH Ballot. Steroids era saved baseball. After greedy owners and 1994 strike, it was the HRs that brought fans back. Players from that era deserve HOF consideration and getting in. To blatantly exclude vote for them is childish. HOF includes players from eras when Black players weren’t allowed to play because of Racist owners and American history. Did they truly play the best? Do they deserve asterisk? No. So stop the posturing and give them a fair shake.
Oh and as much as I enjoyed Wagner in 2006 Mets squad, he was a choker in some clutch games in 07 & 08 regular seasons as well as the post season blunders. Ugh. Yes he had some good seasons but HOF. No way. Sorry Billy boy.
Andruw Jones needs to be in the hall of fame already.
No Jimmy Rollins??? Better stats than Barry Larkin. Definitely a HOFer!!!
I don’t know what stats you’re looking at. Larkin was a .295/.371/.444 batter with a 116 OPS+ while Rollins was a .264/.324/.414 batter with a 95 OPS+. Sure, he had more hits, but he also had 1183 more plate appearances, but despite that, Larkin has a better WAR, by a margin of nearly 23 wins. Acolade wise, Larking went to 9 ASGs and as the most Silver Sluggers by an NL Shortstop.