The Cardinals have yet to have much engagement with the offseason’s top-tier free agents, according to Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. This relates to both starting pitchers and position players, as in regards to the top of the shortstop market, the Cards “have remained on the outskirts of the shortstop discussions, staying aware but not plunging in,” Goold writes.
This isn’t to say the the Cardinals aren’t active, as the team is focusing on its need behind the plate. Cards officials will be meeting with the agents for Willson Contreras and Christian Vazquez, and such other free agent catchers as Omar Narvaez and Mike Zunino have also been explored by the team, as well as trade candidates like the Athletics’ Sean Murphy or any of the Blue Jays’ three backstops.
Catcher is the most pressing need for the Cardinals, so it isn’t surprising that the team might be looking to get its catching situation settled before moving onto other targets. With Adam Wainwright re-sigining and Nolan Arenado passing on his opt-out clause, St. Louis had two major bits of business settled before the offseason even officially began, perhaps giving the team some extra flexibility to proceed a bit more slowly on other matters.
Signing Contreras would certainly count as a headline-grabbing move, as the longtime Cubs catcher is projected to land a four-year, $84MM deal, and would also cost draft pick compensation since he rejected Chicago’s qualifying offer. $84MM would count as the second-biggest contract the Cardinals have ever given to a free agent, behind only Matt Holliday’s $120MM deal from the 2009-10 offseason. That deal was also a re-signing, as Holliday had become a familiar quantity to the Cardinals after spending the last two-plus months of the 2009 season in a St. Louis uniform.
In short, making a big free agent splash usually isn’t the preferred strategy of Cards president of baseball operations John Mozeliak. This obviously doesn’t rule out Contreras altogether, but it might make St. Louis more open to trade talks with the A’s or Jays in the catching search. That said, signing Contreras for just money and a draft pick might be preferable to giving up a big trade package for Murphy, Alejandro Kirk, or Gabriel Moreno.
On the pitching side, the Cardinals are known to be looking at re-signing with Jose Quintana. For the bullpen, the Cards are targeting high-strikeout relievers — as Goold notes, the team is looking to add more swing-and-miss after finishing near the bottom of the league in strikeout percentage. St. Louis is looking at pitching options both in North America and overseas.
Isn’t this story basically what’s been on this site before?
We should sign someone instead of trading our prospects for Murphy. If we do make a trade it should be for someone else. There are several catchers available. Let’s sign one. I like Christian Vazquez.
I think Gorman is expendable. If he can headline a Murphy package, do it.
It’ll take a lot more than Gorman.
I agree Pun, I think we have prospect capital to spend. Mostly because I’m not sold on Herrera. I like the Blue Jays catchers alright, but I don’t see a great trade match up. I think if we loose out on Murphy, we could get by with Narvaez plus our current guys. At that point I would spend the prospect capital on Rosario.
In terms of free agents, I like Manaea and Brantley.
*lose*
Agree for sure. I’d rather they spend money on those two than Contreras, but I’m skeptical they’re going to spend much if not’s at catcher.
I was surprised by their interest in Quintana. I mean it makes sense to me, but they haven’t really shown a willing to stockpile depth at starting pitcher going in to the season. I really like Quintana, I just like Manaea more because of his age.
As far as spending on a bat, I think it depends on what they think of Walker. If they really believe he’s ready to contribute right away, then there’s not really room to add from a roster perspective. If they think he needs more time, I think financially there is room in the budget to sign a veteran upgrade for the Corey Dickerson spot.
Cards are gun-shy to let young talent leave since that hasn’t worked well (Alcantara) recently. It’s too early to let Gorman go since he has SOOOO much upside and cost control, at this point.
Spend the money, MO. Get Contreras.
I’m with you. I’d rather get Contreras or Vazquez for cash than give up Gorman, Nootbaar, or Burleson. I’d rather keep those left-handed bats.
The issue with the cash it would take to get contreras is that you are essentially giving up another unknown player that they could spend on. The Cardinals have more capital in terms of prospects than cash, at least based on past spending. Catcher can be filled with spending prospects or cash, but SS and sp can prob only be filled with cash on fa.
I do too. I think he would be a perfect fit for the Cards. All this talk about Murphy and the three Jays catchers. Obviously Murphy isn’t going anywhere because they are asking for a team’s entire minor league roster for him. Toronto seems to have no intention of giving up any of their catchers, although if they have major injuries during the season I bet they’d be more willing to give one up.
Yes… hey umm by chance is Carson Kelly available? Idk about any of the free agents options? Zunino provides plus metrics behind the dish? Vasquez might as well? Give up draft picks for a free agent? Never, not under Mozeliaks watch
Good call! I forgot about Kelly. Always thought he was undervalued.
He wasn’t undervalued, Yadi just didn’t didn’t wanna step aside.
Catcher first Vazquez probably then a couple of relief pitchers.
My preferred catchers would be (1) Murphy, (2) Contreras, (3) Vasquez.
I think they might spend money on Contreras. But I don’t think if they went with Vazquez they’d reallocate money to the rotation or SS, so might as well get Contreras.
Just out of curiosity, why not Narvaez? Overall, I’m inclined to agree with your catchers’ rating. But wouldn’t it benefit the Cards to have the LH bat too?
He just doesn’t feel like enough of an upgrade. Again though, you could talk me into it if you said they’d pay up for a SS or Rodon or something by saving money at catcher. I don’t think they will though.
Narvaez is a very hard worker and he is going to bounce back. to be honest Counsel broke him last year and his love for the game. He worked real hard to improve defense. He became an all star. Yes he slumped some in second half of 2021. The Brewers didn’t stand behind. If Cubs sign him and show they really believe in him and stand behind him. He will reward you.He will make every pitcher better and will be very good in the running game.
keep knizner, get an ace and bellinger
One out of three ain’t bad.
Nope, sure, why?
Narvaez as a platoon Catcher with Knizner would give the Cardinals the LH offense they are looking for.
@rsox the cards do not need off. from there c what they need from there c is good d and good game calling. i don’t understand why people think that c need to be an offensive spark.
More to the point is that the Cards are said to be looking for a LH bat, Narvaez gives them that without overcrowding the OF trying to work in AB’s for another Corey Dickerson type player
Here has a 800!percent the 3-5Out of the five years also is due to have a good year this year
@yc i hope the cards do not go after contreras heis a bat first c and his bat is only special because he is a c. most be him do dh and he is an avg hitter at best. imo we either spend on christain, trade for a c, or roll the dice on in house options but please don’t sign contreras it will be the follower reboot.
Yeah, I can certainly see your position on that, Brodie. I agree that it would be tough to transition to a Contreras-style catcher from two decades of Molina. They couldn’t be more opposite.
I really like the fit of Murphy in STL, and I could certainly see Narvaez fitting in well. Vazquez fits anywhere as a defensive catcher.
I’m not a fan of acquiring Kirk though. He’s talented, obviously, but I don’t think he will she well at all with that body type in that position, especially being so short. He’s just too large, honestly. Probably a non-issue because he’s so young right now, but a few more years….
Hope you had a good Thanksgiving, man!
spot on yc here in redbird nation value d in our up the middle positions especially c (and having one of the best call games for 20 years) we want a c that plays the position well and call a game.
I agree. When you think of Contreras you have to consider where he played. That bandbox on the north side results in a lot of HRs. I don’t care about how far it is down the lines. Until they get rid of those baskets, it’s not a major league ballpark.
Narvaez is the Mozeliak move to address the position for now?
Kirk plus a prospect for Nootbar and Liberatore, get it done Mozeliak
They won’t trade Nootbar…lefty power hitter with speed and good defense
And Cards gave up a ton to get Liberatore. To let a cost-controlled guy with so much upside go before letting him mature and have a real shot, is, I think, a mistake.
Kirk for Nootbaar, Liberatore, and a solid prospect is closer to what it would take.
You’re not getting kirk for that package. He can absolutely rake.
Nootbar and Kirk had the same ops+ this year.
Except one is a catcher, so the defensive position makes Kirk more valuable.
Nootbar will play Center field in Toronto, and I’m not sure Kirk is going to be an everyday catcher, I hope he proves me wrong.
Maybe St. Louis will sign deGrom?
Maybe St. Louis will trade for deGrom?
Not until at least June 1st sir
re-sigining?
doesn’t someone at a minimum run spell check once before publishing?
As a Cubs fan, I say anyone but the Cards and White Sox. What I do not understand, however, is why the Cubs didn’t even TRY to discuss an extension with Willie. They know him better than anyone so I’m guessing it’s not about the money necessarily.
Seems like it’s one of Carlson, Nootbar, Donovan or Gorman, Gorman doesn’t have value to the Jays and Nootbar seems like the odd one out of the other 3.
The Cardinals definitely have the prospects to get Murphy from Oakland. Gorman, Liberatore, Burleson, heck they could even throw in Yepez and fill several of the A’s needs in one trade
Carlson will be the one who is traded
They can’t trade Carlson. They already traded Bader. We don’t don’t have anymore centerfielders.
O’Neil is a better centerfield and is working on conditioning and agility this offseason to handle a full season of centerfield. If he had not been injured when Bader was traded he would have been the one who took over CF. But instead Carlson took the role and kept it because Mozalak was casting him as the next great Cardinal player. I wish Carlson would be the one traded, however Mozalak doesn’t admit when he’s wrong and he won’t face the question on why Carlson was off limits for Soto but was then dealt for a catcher five month later. So we suffer with Carlson for a another season until we eventually trade him for relief pitching.
There is no way, at this point, you could count on O’Neill to play center over a full season with no one but Noot behind him. He’s just been too fragile. He may be working on it, but Carlson is probably working on being a better hitter. Until I see the results over a full season, I believe we have to keep Carlson.
I do agree whole heartedly with your statement about Mo being unable to admit being wrong. But in the cases you mention, I think he was right.
Nootbar could handle CF, Edmon would probably excellent out there as well and that could allow them to play in the short stop market. If Aaron Judge can hold down CF, there are a lot of option for the Cardinals as well. Being worrisome of O’Neil getting hurt shouldn’t prohibit them from trading Carlson if he nets the best return. O’Neil could have a season like 2021 and there would have been nothing to worry about.
O’Neil is NOT a better CF than Carlson. Forget the metrics, watch the games.
His lines on ball in CF aren’t great — Carlson’s are appreciably better.
He’s fast to be sure, but speed alone isn’t enough. He’s likely actually faster than Carlson on straight line speed. But Carlson gets reads well better.
Neither is Bader of course, but not many are.
The concept O’Neill can man CF for more than fill in stretches is foolish.
Sure they can O’Neill and nootbwr and edman can play centerfield
stubby66 How did Counsell break Narvaez? Do you have a source? Brewers are so non transparent and public media source limited
Don’t count out Jansen from Toronto as a target. He’s good defensively, can hit and would come at a lower cost. St. Louis has catchers in the minors that should be ready in a couple of years.
A smaller deal the Cardinals may consider is the acquisition of Amed Rosario from the Guardians.. The return can include Juan Yepez as the headliner..
Then again.. a larger deal that involves an RP =====> Closer not named Emmanuel Clase.. An RP with a K-Rate of over 39% (elite) with four years of control.. would be exactly what John Mozeliak has claimed he’s looking for…
GeronimoSon;
Cleveland is not trading Amed Rosario.
They’re overly balanced with LF hitters, and Rosario hits LH pitchers better than anyone else on the roster.
If they feel Juan Yepez can hit at the ML level then being a RH bat may appeal to them. They have a number of young SS’s – Gabriel Arias or Owen Miller might be trade possibilities. Tyler Freeman is another, but I think they want to see more of him before they would make a decision to trade him. He bats RH, plays all infield positions, and seems like he can turn into an above average ML hitter.
Cleveland is loaded with quality young players, both on the ML roster and in the minors. They’re small market so they have to go with a lot of youngsters to hold their payroll down.
Your probably right, but Rosario is getting more expensive and they have viable middle infield prospects that could do the job.
Rosario on the Cardinals isn’t an insane idea. And my guess is there could be a match with prospects as well.
Yepez isn’t a headliner in any deal. He’s a bench bat who is sus in the field.
Headline a trade package for a Catcher with Gorman and Liberitore, sign Quintana and Chafin and call it an off-season.
444, I think you’re spot on.
If they did those moves (and that sounds very much like a typical Cardinal offseason), i think they’d still go after a Ben Gamel type ala Corey Dickerson for veteran leadership off the bench and deepen the middle infield position since Gorman’s departure would leave them with just Donovan and DeJong (and Wynn still a year away). Otherwise, that at least fills the team’s most urgent needs (though all Cards fans would welcome a front line starter).
I get the sense the Cardinals are open to dealing Burleson (certainly over Nootbar, for example) and might pursue a trade with him as a major feature.
Add my voice to those saying PLEASE no W. Contreras. This organization has prided itself on defense, and we’ve been spoiled to believe catcher defense (game calling, sequencing, pitcher handling, framing, etc.) comes with the package, and the new baserunning environment may affect the Cardinals more than any other team when compounded by Molina’s departure (runners rarely even TRIED to steal bases with Yadi). Murphy, Vazquez, MAYBE Kirk or Moreno (I’m not fooled by Jensen’s ONE passable offensive year) or settle for chasing a bounceback candidate like Navarez, Stassi, Grandel, etc.
Hope the Cards sign Contreras, so you can watch home get thrown out on the bases.
Naverno Robertson Chafin. Ben Gamel outfield bat left-handed
Pardon?
And immediately after the Cardinals signed Matt Holiday for a large sum of money in 2009-10 offseason everybody started talking about well how are they gonna afford to keep pujols now?
The Cardinals and Blue Jays would appear to be a great match. The Cards need a catcher and have a surplus of left-handed bats, and the Jays need left-handed bats and have a surplus of catchers.
If you factor in Jordan Walker, and maybe even Moises Gomez (though Gomez might be a stretch), the Cardinals have 12 or 13 players for eight non-catcher spots in the lineup. I have to imagine the Cardinals would be fine with converting some of the extra infield-outfield capital into a catcher. Can’t play all of these guys:
Paul Goldschmidt
Nolan Arenado
Tommy Edman
Tyler O’Neill
Jordan Walker
Dylan Carlson
Nolan Gorman
Juan Yepez
Brendan Donovan
Lars Nootbar
Alec Burleson
Paul DeJong
Moises Gomez
One of the more pointless articles on this site in a while. This offered zero new information and in fact this exact same information has been offered in other articles within the same week. It really feels like someone is grasping at straws for content.
The Cardinals get a complete re-do on last years free agent misses. 2 years in a row their biggest need (ss) has multiple all stars available. The upgrade of a correa or turner over dejong is huge. I know some will say cards are good up the middle with edman-donovan. However, donovan has more value as a utility guy. He’s not great at D at any 1 spot, but can play many.
Also, they should be out on Contreras. His cost in salary is more than what other catchers will cost in prospects. Signing contreras means one less starter (pitcher or bat) they sign. Cards and blue jays can easily have a trade that helps both clubs. If not, sign christian vazquez knowing you still believe in Herrera long term.
How I think this plays out now:
Catcher: I’m sticking with Christian Vasquez as who they sign. It’s hard for me to see Mozeliak paying a high price on a player with subpar defense.
Outfield: It was reported Matt Holliday is working with Cody Bellinger. Mozeliak already said he wanted a left handed bat, he’s a plus defender, and he’s a potential impact bat if he can get right. If he’s working with Matt Holliday, it’s fair to assume it’s at the interest of the Cardinals.
Pitcher: I believe pitching will be address in some manner but it’s not clear yet “how”? Quintana was a really good fit, the question (if they sign him) is who’s out of the rotation.
This might be an unpopular opinion but I believe the front office is considering dealing Flaherty. With Mikolas, Wainwright, Matz, and Montgomery already in the fold for 2023, signing Quintana makes someone expendable. Flaherty and the Cardinals have also had a complicated relationship for some time.
Solid predictions in my opinion. Only one i cant see is flaherty getting traded. Its similar to carlos martinex situation. No way they can get much value for him. His upside is worth more being kept than traded. Also, the last few years prove you cant have enough starters. Half of them will be hurt or pitch terribly. If you have 6 starters you have 3 starters.
I get that, but Flaherty has to pitch to have more value. He hasn’t been doing much of that lately. He just kind of talks about how great he is.
I agree with everything he says politically. I’m just tired of his arrogant routine.
True dat. I mean, who/what is Jack Flaherty? Can anyone honestly predict what you’d get out of him in 2023? How do you get fair value for him if you don’t know what his value is?
Ultimately, the Cards have to hope he does what is necessary to earn a bundle in free agency, and they slap a qualifying offer on him and get a draft pick along with a solid walk year performance.
I agree on Flaherty. He’s not going to stay. He and Hudson, along with DeJong, Gorman, and Burleson, could net a couple of decent players.
At c, I think Narvaez, Murphy, Kirk, in that order. If Murphy, maybe the As would package Burke , for the right return.
Kirk needs to decide if he will be happy driving a Cadillac around Tijuana or a collection of Hypercars and adjust his diet accordingly
I think the Cards should put their money on a SS and SP. Honestly I was a little surprised they resigned Waino, but I am hoping he can give us one more decent year. If he can keep his ERA around 3.5, and stay healthy I would be pumped but I think paying him $17mil at this point was definitely a little much for a #5 SP. I love Waino, but I was hoping he retired and allowed the Cards to spend that $17 mil elsewere. Even using that money to resign Quintana would have been a better long term move in my opinion.
I would love to see someone like Swanson or Correa in STL, Putting Edman at 2B and allowing Donovan just to be a utility player would give the Cards good depth. Then go out and get a C. I like S. Murphy as well, but I feel like Gorman is a high asking price., now if they just wants so reasonable picks then make the move. Now if they can get Contreras for just a draft pick and pay his salary around 4 yrs $75- 80 mil,, but please have some options in that contract. Asking for $84 mil is a bit steep and is putting you basically on the same page as Realmuto, I don’t believe Contrera is as valuable as him., and I think he is more on par with Salvador Perez who is making $20 mil/yr. That would also allow them to use Gorman to trade for a SP that is young, has some MLB experience and has some good upside, But at the end of the day, Mo has got to spend some money if they want to try and make a run at the WS.