The Giants’ agreement with lefty Sean Manaea appeared to give them a full rotation, but Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle reports that even after guaranteeing Manaea $25MM over the next two years (with an opt-out after year one), San Francisco remains engaged with Rodon and agent Scott Boras about a potential reunion.
Manaea, 31 in February, can join Logan Webb, Alex Wood, Alex Cobb and Anthony DeSclafani in comprising a prototypical five-man rotation, but there ought to be room for Rodon on the roster even with that quintet in place. That’s true both because Rodon is a clear upgrade over the majority (arguably all five) of those in-house arms, and also because the internal group comes with a fair bit of injury risk and health uncertainty.
DeSclafani, for instance, was limited to just 19 innings this past season, thanks to a tendon injury in his ankle that eventually required surgical repair. Each of Wood, Cobb and Webb made at least 26 starts, but Cobb and Wood also have lengthy injury histories. Cobb pitched just 158 total innings from 2019-21, owing to groin, back and wrist strains. Wood has made 26 starts in consecutive seasons now, but he pitched just 12 2/3 innings in 2020 and just 35 2/3 innings in 2019 due to back and shoulder injuries. Even Webb, who worked a team-high 192 1/3 innings in 2022, missed a few weeks in 2021 while battling a minor shoulder strain.
No team can be realistically expected to navigate an entire 162-game season with only five starters. While the Giants have some depth with swingman Jakob Junis and minor leaguers Sean Hjelle, Thomas Szapucki, Tristan Beck and Keaton Winn all on the 40-man roster, they also have ample payroll space to make a Rodon-sized splash and figure out the allotment of innings at a later date. Roster Resource projects a $151MM payroll for the upcoming season and a luxury-tax ledger that’s a bit higher ($168.3MM) but nowhere near the first tier of penalization, which begins at $233MM in 2023.
Rodon was reported earlier in the offseason to be seeking a six-year deal worth more $30MM-plus on an annual basis, and Slusser more recently reported that he and Boras have been seeking at least seven years. What’s not clear is whether that shift in length of desired contract comes with a shift in the per-year asking price. We’ve seen teams this offseason increasingly show a willingness to stretch contracts to greater lengths as a means of tamping down AAV. Clubs had been moving away from longer-term, lower-AAV deals for some time — Bryce Harper being a notable exception — instead showing a preference for shorter-term deals at high annual values. That hasn’t been the case this winter, with Trea Turner, Xander Bogaerts, Brandon Nimmo and Jacob deGrom all signing lengthier deals than expected but at lesser annual rates of pay than their highest-paid peers at their respective positions.
Put more simply, if Rodon and Boras set out seeking $180-200MM in total guarantees this winter but were having difficulty finding that, it’s at least possible that the shift toward a deal of seven-plus years in length might be more about reaching that $180MM-plus benchmark than about now seeking seven years at $30MM-plus per season. A seven-year deal worth $185MM, as a purely speculative example, wouldn’t line up with the previously reported AAV target for Rodon but would ensure his place among the ten highest-compensated free agent pitchers in MLB history.
Of course, anything in that vicinity would still shatter most industry expectations heading into the offseason. Two months ago, the most common question regarding Rodon was if he’d done enough to secure a sixth guaranteed year or would need to “settle” for a five-year contract. While reports of Rodon pursuing six, seven or even more years at or near the $30MM AAV threshold don’t serve as a guarantee that he’ll eventually reach those heights, they still represent a departure from where his market was expected to land.
In many ways, that’s a microcosm of the free-agent market at large since the offseason ended. Teams have been willing to spend far more freely than in recent winters, as last March’s collective bargaining agreement assured five years of labor peace and also gave front offices and owners clarity on where the luxury-tax thresholds will sit for the foreseeable future.
Beyond Rodon, the Giants are also known to be keenly interested in shortstop Carlos Correa — their top target after missing on free-agent outfielder Aaron Judge. Whether they’re willing to pony up and make commitments to both Rodon and Correa isn’t clear, though it’d certainly register as a surprise, as that pairing could wind up costing something in the range of $450-500MM combined.
clrrogers
I don’t believe you, Susan.
ARC 2
Susan doesn’t post fake stories. just because the Giants are engaged doesn’t mean they are at the top. Boras is going to wait until somebody gives him something he can’t refuse.
This one belongs to the Reds
Is he negotiating with the Godfather?
ForeverGiantsFan
She did report on rumors at winter meetings that Judge had decided to sign with the Giants. This about same time Heyman reported that Judge was signing with Giants.
claude raymond
This is why clrrogers posted he didn’t believe her. Forever, you are correct and 4sfgsw9 is absolutely correct…her reporting is shoddy. Keep in mind, when the Giants signed Lastella slusser had just taken over for Schulman and she was obsessed with that signing. She had been covering Lastella in Oakland and just loved the signing. So, that pretty much killed any faith I had in her reporting. Any more, if I see her name referenced in a story it’s page turning time.
Pete'sView
ARC 2 —Signing Manea (a #5) is throwing money away. Very disappointing. But if the Giants are truly in on Rodon and do sign him (most every Giants fan’s wish) it could be a win, allowing Wood to piggy-back with Junis or Manea, saving the pen once a week.
Otherwise, Manea is nothing more than an innings eater. More scrap-heap.
4SFGSW9
Agreed. Slusser was the one that led Heyman to post the infamous Judge tweet. Shoddy reporting. I’ll wait until an out-of-market non-Heyman reports this before I believe it
boastrogot
slusser is a slack. first thing in her bio on twitter is a rainbow flag. defines herself by her sexuality, how abhorrent.,
Pete'sView
boastrogot — That is not what the rainbow means. So before you go spouting false information at least get it right. The rainbow simply means she is in solidarity with the LBGT community. It is not about HER sexuality.
GMoney2850
Nah. Zaidi ain’t giving a guy with that injury history 6 + years. Nor should he.
Ryan W
They need to resign Rodón and get Correa/make a splash trade if they want any shot at the playoffs.
GMoney2850
Why? They had a positive run differential last year with the worst defense in the league and a bad bullpen.
Their offense scored more runs than the Ladres last year; it’s a lot better than people think. Platoons work.
Dennis Boyd
So I guess it’s a good thing they got Haniger to help their defense…And yes, platoons work…work towards mediocrity, which is what describes the giants currently.
GMoney2850
Players w/ the platoon advantage do approx 50% better over the course of history.
They work. I’m sure Zaidi would platoon almost every position if the roster space allowed. It’s smart
collarboners
I don’t disagree with you on platoons, but roster space doesn’t let you do that everywhere. So you need a few more or less every day guys and platoon around them. And to compete with the Mets, Braves, Padres, and Dodgers those every day guys have to be major impact players these days. It’s too bad as a Giants fan to say this, but they are over a barrel with Correa- they really need him bad
Ryan W
And a large part of that run differential was Rodón throwing 180 IP under 3 ERA. If they don’t get him back, they regress. It’s patently obvious. Padres are better than 22, Dodgers are not but still very good. What’s the plan to win more games, luck of the draw?
ARC 2
Rondon can just sit back and watch all the over paying that will be done to get him to sign. Somebody is going to over pay.
Sunday Lasagna
If he gets a 7 year deal, two outcomes come to mind, he could have 7 years like the last two, or he could have a repeat of the last 7 years in which the first 5 were average/injured and only the last two were good.
Wagner>Cobb
He seems to have turned a corner in terms of production. He’s a legit ace who one can reasonably expect to pitch like one for the first 3 years of the deal (no player is a true guarantee). Pitching at an elite level for two different teams in two different leagues/divisions in back to back years bodes well.
Ma4170
Teams always pay attention to the most recent years anyway. He’s a different pitcher now mechanically than 2016 for sure. But w the QO attached for teams other than the giants, idk if he actually will get overpaid like others so far
greenbaygiants
The Giants have no sizzle to their roster that would get a casual baseball fan to watch them. It’s clear they will have to overpay to sign any of the remaining FAs, but FZ has so far stuck to his valuation model which has left him with a couple mid-tier signings. The Giants practically print money, so it seems a lot more like the problem is FZ’s process rather than resources.
GMoney2850
That process is 50 games over .500 in the last 3 seasons. Seems good, idk
MLB Top 100 Commenter
As a Cubs and Dodgers fan, I think the Giants FO is pretty good. Giants have three championships in 13 years. Asterisks are only other team with more than one in the past 13 years, and only one of those two was legit.
I do project the Giants to finish third in division in 2023, but it is just the Dodgers and Padres are very good. Probably don’t make wild card spot with Dodgers or Padres getting one WC spot, and NY/Philadelphia/Atlanta getting two other WC spots. But injuries change things quick and you have to play the games.
coupofthecentury
“As a Cubs and Dodgers fan”. Oof, Tough watching irrelevancy and choke jobs consistently.
rememberthecoop
Not as tough as reading your stupid comment.
tedtheodorelogan
It’s becoming painfully obvious that Farhan wasn’t the guy responsible for building the Dodgers into the juggernaut that they currently are.
fljay73
6 years at $25mil per
$15 million signing bonus
$20 million option with a $10 million buyout
Should put him at $175 million guaranteed.
Giants have the ability to do that plus go after Correa. Giants should offer Correa 9 years at $35mil per. Thrown in a signing bonus along with a option year with buyout to sweeten the pot with Correa.
rememberthecoop
Rodon is not settling for 25M AAV after watching a 40-year-old Verlander get 43.3M AAV. While he’s not V, jes been damnbgood and is a decade younger. You start atv30M
Ma4170
6-180 should get it done. Teams shouldn’t force themselves to go past that.. but somebody will
Pads Fans
7/180 with an opt out after year 2.
Pete'sView
No more early opt-outs for a pitcher the quality of Rodon. For a Manea, fine, but no team can go through the torture of restructuring its rotation every off season expecting they can land an ace every year.
Mr_KLC
In a week, we’ll be reading on how the Giants, Guardians, and Red Sox just missed out on him.
This one belongs to the Reds
Don’t forget the Padres who will reportedly have offered millions more and he said no.
Blue Dude
SF happy Bays should just get it over and get Correa and Rodon Dodgers need some competion besides the Madres
JockStrap
If they have the money for Judge they have the money for 3 Rondon’s.
John Bird
Likely a leak from the Boras camp trying to boost the offer from other teams.
SODOMOJO
I mean, they were just willing to give Judge a kajillion dollars. This shouldn’t be a big surprise; even despite the “oh they got Manea so they won’t sign Rodon” talk. Who knows if they will actually sign him, but I expect them to be “in it” for sure.
foppert
Boras asking clubs to “assert” themselves.
msqboxer
I’m sure everyone who is seriously interested is sitting at the 4/$100M or $4/$120M range and it will be the first one that blinks and does 5/$150 that gets the deal done.
stephaniebpetagno
If 5/150 gets you Rodon, most clubs’ fans would be all over their team paying it. It’s the years, not the money.
Pads Fans
Its both. I don’t think anyone blinks at 7/150. Maybe even at 7/180.
I think that 7/210+ puts him in another category that is only filled with Aces with a history of being workhorses, not injury prone 1 year wonders.
bernbabybern
Ok, Scott.
Jm207* 2
The only surefire guy in that rotation is Logan Webb. Relying on the rest of those guys to produce and stay healthy is a good way to set yourself up for failure.
KirkRueter
Cobb is legit. when healthy.
Jm207* 2
Maybe as a number 4 or 5. What playoff team is shaking from having to face Cobb?
oaklandfan22
None.
Pete'sView
I think we’ve seen that when Cobb stays healthy, he’s more of a solid #3. I’m glad Giants have him.
Ma4170
Ty Cobb?
VegasSDfan
Even after spending 12.5 million more a year bwahahaha!!!!
Those big spenders…
GMoney2850
Imagine laughing at anything when you have no rings and one 90-win season in the last 25 years
claude raymond
So Vegas, check this out. 359 at bats, 77 hits, .214 average, 13 doubles, 1 triple, 9 hrs for a whopping .331 slugging prctge. 30 rbi. 75 KS. These are post trade stats for Josh Bell and Juan Soto COMBINED! Woowoo! How many prospects were traded? Bell now gone. Some experts predict Soto will be traded to recoup prospects and ease payroll. Machado will opt out after this season. After this season, you’ll realize you’ve lost Bell, Soto and Machado. But you’ll have Boegerts until he’s 40! Bwahahahaha!!!
jalora
Signing pitchers to 6-year deals seems insane to me. ANY pitcher.
Rishi
I agree but has it always been so? Who wouldn’t have signed peak Greg Maddux for 6 years? Surely there are some guys out there now who never get hurt for the most part even today. Younger Scherzer would’ve been great deal. Verlander too. Off top of my head Nola is always healthy
Pads Fans
Long term deals of 6+ years have worked out for the team in signing of pitchers more often than for position players.
That said, I think Rodon would be a bad signing with his injury history. His first 6 years in MLB were just bad in terms of injuries.
Although one opinion is that if a team signs him to a long term deal for a slightly lesser AAV, the extra years might lessen the impact to the contract of losing him to injuries for large parts of a couple of seasons and they might get 3-4 very good years out of him in a 7 year contract.
James Midway
Why would this be news? Of course they would still be pursuing him. Just because they signed a 5+ ERA guy, they would call it a day?
Rishi
2021 was no good for you? 190+ ks sub 4 era. Giants are good with pitchers a lot of times.
James Midway
Manea is not 2021 Manea. His days of being a reliable starter are over.
Pads Fans
4.96 ERA last season. 4.06 ERA career.
Rishi
If they get him and put Alex Wood in the bullpen they will have the makings of a good rotation.
VicM
I don’t think the money is the issue, 7 years for a pitcher is not wise. How many 5 year contracts for pitchers have backfired…I would think almost all of them?
williemaysfield
All 4 of the 5 years pitcher contracts the giants
Signed were mostly a bust. Cain , Cueto, Samardzija, and Zito. So I can see an aversion to them.
Pads Fans
You tell us.
legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/le…
Scroll down to starting pitchers.
rct
That Manaea deal does not look good. I guess $12.5 million is not a lot in this market, but the opt-out after one year makes it a bad deal, imo. It is essentially a one year deal for a good pitcher or a two year deal for a bad pitcher because if he pitches well at all in 2023, he’s gone at the end of the year.
He was also horrible last year, particularly in the second half. Don’t understand this deal, especially since it’s really their only pitching move so far.
Ryan W
It definitely favors the player
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Giants hope he is good enough to opt-out.
Skell 2
Carlos Rodon wil be the biggest regretful signing of the offseason. Guaranteed
Berkner
Gotta be deGrom, 5 years/185 million guaranteed for a guy entering his Age-35 season who missed significant time in 2021 and 2022. The Rangers will never get close to a full season out of him.
Ma4170
I’ll take the bet against that… you’re on!
Pete'sView
Giants need to take that chance.
Candlestoked
Give him lotsa money for lotsa years that either party can opt out of in three years.
ChrisInTex
According to John Heyman, Carlos Rodent appears to be staying in San Fran
Jk
gfan
Rodent can really bring the high cheese when he’s on.
99 across the letters !
gfan
Farhan just driving up Yankee spend again. Pretend interest.
Can’t blame him though after East Coast is winning all his battles this off-season.
PGM
who woulda guessed endless roster churn is anathema to impact free agent signings?
I scoff that the Giants are even in an Otani discussion for next season
would they like to have him ? 100%
is there a realistic chance? Fat chance maybe