Brewers general manager Matt Arnold says that the club is looking to improve behind the plate, per Curt Hugg of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. When asked if they were more likely to pursue trades or free agents in that department, Arnold said it’s “hard to handicap.”
The Brewers used a fairly even time split behind the plate in 2022, with Victor Caratini getting 73 starts and Omar Narvaez getting 80. That’s becoming more standard practice around the league, as few teams want to wear down their best catchers by having them crouching behind the plate every day for years and years. Caratini is still on the roster but Narvaez reached free agency at the end of the 2022 season.
The club already made one move to bolster their depth at the position this offseason, acquiring Payton Henry from the Marlins. However, Henry only has 20 MLB games under his belt so far and didn’t play much in the minors this year either due to thumb surgery. He still has options and so it’s fairly sensible for the club to look for a second major league catcher to pair with Caratini and bump Henry down the depth chart and into the minors.
In terms of the free agent market, the top option is now off the board with Willson Contreras agreeing to a deal with the Cardinals for $87.5MM over five years. The Brewers were never really going to be shopping in that aisle, since they’ve been actually trying to trim costs around the edges of their payroll this winter. Their trade of Kolten Wong was a cash-neutral deal, but the Brewers have moved Hunter Renfroe and his projected $11.2MM arbitration salary and let Brent Suter and Brad Boxberger depart for some modest savings. Their payroll for 2023 currently sits at $116MM, per Roster Resource, about $16MM shy of last year’s $132MM Opening Day figure, per Cot’s Baseball Contracts.
The Brewers might want to dedicate some resources to other parts of their roster, such as their outfield or bullpen, but there should be room for a catching addition if that’s their priority. The top free agent remaining is generally considered to be Christian Vazquez, but he seems to have wide interest, having been connected to the Twins, Red Sox, Padres, Diamondbacks, Guardians, Giants and Cubs in recent weeks.
If the Brewers don’t want to go hard on Vazquez, the other options in free agency include bringing back Narvaez, as well as glove-first options like Roberto Perez, Tucker Barnhart and Austin Hedges. There’s also slugger Gary Sanchez, as well as wild card Mike Zunino who missed most of 2022 due to surgery for thoracic outlet syndrome. None of those options would break the bank but they’re also all imperfect in one way or another.
If they opt for the trade route, the most prominent candidates in that department are Sean Murphy of the A’s and Danny Jansen of the Blue Jays. Both are projected for modest arbitration salaries, with Murphy at $3.5MM and Jansen at $3.7MM. The greater cost would likely be what is required to send the other way in a trade. Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch has been writing about the catching market recently and had one executive describe the asking prices in those discussions as high “like the moon.” The A’s apparently asked for outfielder Lars Nootbaar, infielder Brendan Donovan and Gordon Graceffo in their Murphy talks. The Jays also wanted Nootbaar in the Jansen dealings and also discussed Ryan Helsley, per Goold.
Those lunar asking prices were what caused the Cardinals to turn their backs on the trade market and just spend the money required to land Contreras, though there was also the draft pick compensation since Contreras rejected a qualifying offer. The Brewers generally aren’t shy about making deals, having traded away Wong, Renfroe and Josh Hader just in the past few months.
However, meeting Oakland or Toronto on their level would likely require further subtracting from their major league roster or dipping into a farm system that isn’t especially well regarded. FanGraphs currently considers their system to be 16th, with Baseball America placing them 13th and MLB Pipeline 19th. Those are obviously middle-of-the-pack placements, but many of their top prospects seem to be in the club’s plans for 2023.
The Wong trade, for instance, was something they could consider because of the possibility of Brice Turang stepping up and taking over the second base job. Renfroe was perhaps deemed expendable because of outfield prospects like Sal Frelick and Garrett Mitchell. If the club is hoping for those players to step in and help at the major league level in 2023, that will make them reluctant to include them in trades. The system’s top prospect is generally considered to be Jackson Chourio, who is still not close to the majors but generally considered to be pretty close to untouchable since he’s shot up prospect lists and considered to be one of the best youngsters in the world. If that’s how things are viewed within the Milwaukee front office, they might also find it difficult to line up on a deal.
RunDMC
Old friend Manny Piña? Reunited and it feels so güd.
DCartrow
Pina for Adames!!
Being it!!
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
Hahahahahahahaha!
Love sarcasm…
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
although “bring it”, would have put the dot at the bottom of the exclamation point…
Not trying to be picky…
still enjoy the sarcasm…………..
#1WhiteSoxFan
Sox will pay half his salary and trade you Grandal. Reunited with the Brew Crew.
What do u have for the Sox?
augold5
A warm body
rondon
Pity.
Bryzzo2016
LOL
Bryzzo2016
The only person that wants washed Grandal at that horrible contract already has him. Also, you confused me… (probably a lot of us) it’s WHITE Sox, when you say “the Sox” most assume you’re talking about the Red Sox, an actual respectable major league franchise.
#1WhiteSoxFan
Respectable?! The crappy BoSux who finished in LAST place 21 games behind their division leader in 2022. What a joke!
rondon
Yes the Sox that won several World Series since the last time your under achievers did. Get it now??
#1WhiteSoxFan
3 is a few, not several.
The BoSux won’t/can’t compete for their own division, let alone a WS, for the next 25 years. They likely will continue to trail Baltimore! Ha!
Muted!
rondon
Again.. Pity.
SupremeZeus
Billy Ray Valentine? That you?
The Fiend
probably get the Sox to pay 90%. Could work.
marrtho
Barnhart makes sense
DarkSide830
#FreeMarioFeliciano
tnut10
Surprised he wasn’t mentioned as a possibility with him already on the 40-man and having received some AB’s albeit only 4 last year. They must value Henry to go back and get him after the failed Curtiss trade.
Buckner
Agreed. Not really sure if they are simply looking for a one-two year backstop solution. Feliciano should be ready by then. Puzzling.
minor league guy
i would imagine they are looking for a 2 year commitment. covers this year with caratini and next year with feli… hopefully quero continues to develop and then its the quero\feliciano show in 2025
Spike Hyzer
He’s a bust. The ONLY value he has is that he knows some of the pitchers already.
fung0
Why do u think Feliciano is never in conversation? Is he really have problems..
minor league guy
he doesnt exactly turn the needle so to speak… solid if unspectacular, but should be a fine backup starting next season
jvent
Mets have McCann for you guys lol
Milwaukee-2208
Brewers need 3 impact bats at minimum.
minor league guy
i’d say 2. 3B and C are the most glaring holes… i wouldnt mind taking a stab at Gallo for RF, but a 4th OF type probably makes more sense seeing our glut of OF prospects. a starting OF of yeli, mitchell and taylor is pretty solid defensively
Spike Hyzer
Urias will play 2B. And with 600 PAs, he would have had nearly 30 HRs last year.
ninerbug
Danny Jansen. K rate sub 20%, growth across the board.
Maybe Wong? Oh, that’s right. A clubhouse pariah has been attained – Wong investment.
But I’ll be there first to partake in crow if I’m misreading the room…
Joe says...
Supposedly Sanchez has gotten rid of his emotional baggage from playing in NY over a year ago.
mrmet17
I bet the Mets would trade a catcher or two
Jaysfan1981
So Brewers fans, what’s your proposals for each of Jansen, Kirk and Moreno.
I got laughed at for suggesting pairing Yellich with Burnes to Aquire Moreno plus other stuff like Lourdes
What say the Brewcrew fans??
abc123baseball
I don’t think it’s laughable. According to BTV, pairing Burnes with Yelich effectively zeroes out, so getting a blue chipper like Moreno could technically be a nice boost. But the Brewers are banking on a Yeli resurgence and I wouldn’t bet against it. So the risk is trading the best pitcher in franchise history + a former and hopefully future franchise player for a promising yet unproven player.
So…not surprised you were laughed at, but clearing the decks like that could be the healthiest long-term option for the Brewers. I wouldn’t hate it even though I still believe in Yelich.
afsooner02
Burnes is a top 10 pitcher in the league. When….and I do mean when….when the brewers trade him, it won’t be to unload the boat anchor contract. It will be for a massive overpay and get numerous top prospects back from a team desperate for starting pitching. That will be worth farrrrrrrrrrrrrrr more value than dumping yeli, who could see a slight bounce back with the shift ending.
That’s why you got laughed at. Burnes and Woodruff are going to turn into the brewers future when it’s time to rebuild, which is not far off.
myaccount2
BTV is not that useful.
Jerry A Truth or Dair
I don’t know why anyone would laugh at that. Trading Yelich’s boat anchor of a contract is the single best thing the Brewers can do. To do it, you would have to pair him with an asset like Burnes, and still be grateful for whatever you get back.
However, Yelly does have a no trade clause, so a market like LA is what makes sense.
MannyPineappleExpress9
As I attempted to get across the other day, until such time as there’s even the slightest hint that Yelich would even consider waiving his no trade, I feel it’s kinda pointless to discuss deals involving him.
As for Burnes, with or without Yelich included, better net more than a catcher and some spare parts.
Jaysfan1981
A player having a NTC does not preclude them from being in rumors in any way, teams ask on players with NTC often and there are many examples of players waiving them in order to facilitate moves.
Closed mouths don’t get fed, you’ll never get anything without asking for it first.
Toronto is better equipped to handle his contract if it goes underwater. Milwaukee would benefit from having alot of extra payroll space and flexibility to keep at least one of their Aces and perhaps get another while filling key holes on their roster.
It again benefits both teams, you’re not even getting fleeced in my proposal. You’re getting a franchise Catcher who’s clock just started and another OF who’s relatively cheap to replace Yelich for the year.
Apparently we shouldn’t give you anything but a bag of balls for both players, so I’m not sure why the notion of a fair trade is insulting
Chris Koch
You could take constructive criticism a lil better. Your trade idea isn’t realistic. Yelich is still a productive player, overpaid yes, but he’s not AAAA level yet. Pretty pointless to remove what may arguably be the best Brewers SP in franchise history so you can dump a still productive player and salary. Who would Milw go and spend all the new money freed up on? Extending players already on the team? What would the trade accomplish? The #1 competitive advantage the Brewers have is Burnes. Moreno and Catchers in general are support for a team looking to contend, not the #1 reason you would advance in the playoffs. Catchers as a whole are lucky to play in 125+ games in a season.
Also, the Brewers don’t need a long term solution at catcher. They have a good one in their pipeline beginning in 2024. They just need a 1-2 year guy that makes them better than Caratini+Feliciano/Henry.
Jaysfan1981
Not sure what the constructive criticism comment was all about, so I’ll ignore that to get to the actual sensible part of your post
Of course he’s not AAAA. Or as a fan I wouldn’t be interested in my team to get him.
And let’s be really honest here. Milwaukee can’t have a player like Yelich making that kind of money and not be the main star. It’s just a fact of being and operating as a small market. It’s not a knock, it’s just reality and that must be factored in as well.
The main want is Burnes. Not Yelli. Trying to logically provide Milwaukee with a fair trade that actually benefits them short and long term is what I believe I’ve suggested. You don’t need to spend any of the savings NOW. But having it at your disposal can get you a contract at the deadline you might not be able to pick up. It might give you the opportunity to sign a recently traded player who like the club and city, again that you might not otherwise be able to do.
Moreno is ready NOW, not in 25 or 26.
Lourdes isn’t expensive and has value on both sides of the feild
From an outsider prospective it feels like you’re that team that has 0 chance of winning the WS but stay high enough in the standings you’re not drafting high or getting the extra bonus pools etc.
Just like I am demanding my team improve to championship caliber or bust, I would implore you to have the same mentality. I know you don’t make the choices for the Brewers, but think it through logically.
In all honesty I’d rather try to pry Caroll away from AZ with Moreno as well.
But Burnes, boy is he a delight to watch, yes I watch Brewers games from time to time.
Chris Koch
I suppose I overlooked the part of your return, though Milwaukee has 0 need for OFs. Even after getting rid of Yelich. BRef has Yelich at 2.7WAR last season. That is Starter worthy. Fangraphs listed last season at 18Mil value. He was paid 26. While that’s a loss, trading him and Burnes and recouping the combined lost value of 55+Mil will likely require spending 25-30Mil on lower talent combined. While we may win 87-88games with your idea, come Playoffs, teams will be less scared having to face the Brewers rotation than they do today.
Burnes when traded will be a standalone trade.MVP level players are the basis to small market teams reaching& or winning the World Series. 2018 Brewers had MVP Yeli but nobody like Burnes.
vtadave
Attaching Yelich to Burnes is an awful idea for the Brewers, who can certainly afford Yelich and hope that he can return at least somewhat to form. Dealing Burnes and Woodruff strictly for prospects has to be the best long-term rebuild approach. They could get an absolute haul.
Spike Hyzer
Not true. While it may be a value of more like 15 million, Yeli was exceptional as a lead off hitter last year and scored 99 runs.
Everyone likes to whine that they need more table setters to score more runs when the HR guys come up, but Yeli IS the table setter. Frelick could be, but he’s a rookie (who probably won’t start at least until Yeli is gone).
With a full season of PAs, Urias projected to nearly 30 HRs last year.
I say go all in on a trade for Paredes to play 3B, where he too projects for around 30 in a full season. Then you have 4 IFs providing 120 HRs, while Yeli, Taylor and Mitchell will probably hit 70 (Taylor is vastly underrated, never finding his groove for lack of consistent PT, and he is a plus, plus defender who projects also to 30 HRs with 600 PAs).
Then they can stick any defensive bum behind the plate and don’t need any production with the bat from him.
minor league guy
there will be ABs for Frelick, probably moreso next season. frelick will take over LF and Yeli to DH
mustache101
As a brewers fan I agree to a point.. but if I’m the brewers I turn that down fast… now if you said yelich/woodruff for moreno and a few lottery tickets coming to Milwaukee I can see that then the brewers use that money to extend burns…. But the trade is mute because yelich would have to approve it and he’s a west coast guy…. That said it’s an outside the box thinking… then the brewers slide ashby into the rotation
Spike Hyzer
There will. Which is why they should trade him now. So he isn’t the next Hiura. Because he isn’t the next Cain or Khris Davis. His skills fit better in the 90s. The Crew does not have a time machine (but he would have made them better than the trash they were in that decade, ruined by the Yount contract).
Frelick won’t take over in LF. Yeli will take over at DH when Winker is gone, but it’s more likely that Weimer–who also may not hit at the next level–is in LF.
The only probably stars among the OF talent are Mitchell and Chourio.
The rest should be moved. Ruiz especially. Gotta pull a Brinson on someone!
fung0
Arnold needs to be creative like tauaght as asst gym for Rays to make moves . Especially in cash dump lich Yelich. I would back load contracts for Byrnes and Woodruff. Should have done that withHader. Does he have chronic arm or shoulder problems ready to become a chronic problems that forced that trade. Should have got their future catcher in that trade. Pads were well stocked
minor league guy
we have a future catcher in jefferson quero. the brewers need a 2 year + option deal for a catcher. can pair that catcher with caratini this year and feliciano next year til quero is ready. a quero\feliciano tandem should be fine for 2024\5
Jesse Chavez enthusiast
A William Contreras, Kyle muller, and Ian Anderson for Adames trade makes so much sense.
RunDMC
Cut off the nose to spite the face
Jesse Chavez enthusiast
I’m not sure if Contreras can keep up that production from last season. I hope he does. But I’d sell high on him. The braves need to upgrade their lineup somehow and have dick for prospects.
RunDMC
Sell high on him and replace him with whom, exactly? The catching market is bone-dry — and ATL led MLB in C production from d’Arnaud/Contreras. D’Arnaud isn’t able to be a primary everyday catcher (few are, really). While their farm depth is questionable, they have a lot of MLB-ready pitching talent many teams could slot into a rotation. I’d trade Grissom before I’d trade Contreras since they already traded Langeliers and have little C depth on the farm.
Jesse Chavez enthusiast
I would too but I don’t think they would trade grissom. And obviously I was thinking about just a darnoud Pina time share. I’m just hoping for any type of upgrades
RunDMC
A 35-year old catcher (Piña) coming back from an almost season-long injury is not an upgrade to an All-Star season from Contreras (24 y/o), especially having a DH spot you can keep his bat in the lineup.
They would trade Grissom if they re-signed Dans (which I don’t believe will happen), but ATL traded Langeliers who was higher on the depth chart and kept Contreras. That just tell you how the FO values him.
tnut10
Sanchez seems like a Brewers type signing. Coming off a down year, big power and bad defensively for them to fix up. Shouldn’t take much to sign him and help bridge another year for their younger guys. He’d fit right in with all the K’s.
minor league guy
i’d almost rather a glove first catcher… whats the point in having the rotation we got if the guy calling the game is crap? zunino or possibly roberto perez seem plausible stop gaps
C Yards Jeff
Carson Kelly? Sounds/reads like Dbacks want to move on from him.
tnut10
Especially if they trade for Murphy.
SupremeZeus
Month ago Hazen stated in his press conference they wanted improvement from Kelly and didn’t see a need at catcher but if they made a move it would be a defense first backup catcher. Hazen stated priority was bullpen, starting pitching, RH bat, veteran locker room presence for young team.
C Yards Jeff
@SupremeZ; apparently Hazen has changed his mind. 2 days ago in a story here it suggested he was looking to upgrade catcher position for more offense
jbeerj
Agree on this. Wouldn’t cost much in prospect value, plus glove, and mashes lefties so he could pair with Caritini.
Four4fore
Jay’s sitting on 3 catchers and looking for a mint. Could leave them with 2 catchers and Kirk as primary DH.
Big whiffa
Brewers FO better not engage w A’s faithful. Or y’all will be trading away Chourio for Murphy lol.
vtadave
Chourio hit AA in 2022, so he may not be as far off as one thinks.
eddiemathews
Joey Wiemer and Esteury Ruiz are also in the outfiled mix, and Chourio might be closer than we think. It wouldn’t surprise me to see Mitcheill, Frelick, Wiemer, or Ruiz included in a deal.
The Brewers are getting left way behind this off-season. They still see the limit for their free agent deals at 2018-19 levels, and that means that they can’t participate at all. Unless they plan to overpay for dregs. With the astronomical numbers for starting pitchers and shortstops – combined with Brewers penny-pinching – there is no way they will be able to keep Woodruff, Burnes, or Adames.
Look out, Pirates! Here we come!
Chris Koch
Why so glim? Freddy Peralta, Aaron Ashby, Chourio, Frelick, Mitchell, Wiemer, Quero, Turang, and Gasser is a strong core to continue on before even additions. This isn’t the Pirates future with that beginning. If they trade Burnes/Woodruff/or Adames there’s more impact than just that core to look forward to.
minor league guy
lauer is no slouch either…
Chris Koch
He’s no top of the rotation pitcher. He’s a good #4 SP with being LH making him a 3. I expect him to be traded by this time next year.
Spike Hyzer
Mitchell is the second coming of Kris Bryant and will start in CF for 10 years. Weimer, Frelick, and Ruiz should ALL be traded immediately. Chourio is the future, but he’s still a little ways off (maybe replacing a Taylor who is traded next off season). Ruiz is complete garbage and Weimer might have a K rate in MLB to rival Hiura. I know baseball is a sport of little guys, but Frelick also does not impress me at all.
I hope it all goes down like it did with Brinson, when our OF prospects were loaded and we traded almost all of them.
jbeerj
Mitchell’s K rate was and is worse than Weimer’s.
mustache101
Frelick don’t impress you lol…. I’m guessing you just look at the stats and have not seen him…. By your logic the AL batting champ last year is junk…. Not a power guy just hits… thank you for your amazing knowledge
Spike Hyzer
Of course I like the AL batting champ.
What I AM saying is Frelick will never hit 50% of his WORST production. He won’t hit at the next level.
And I actually think K rate is a bogus way to look at things. Hiura was above league average last year with a horrendous K rate and the weirdest splits ever.
So, what I’m really saying to jbeerj is that Mitchell will IMPROVE his K rate dramatically now that he’s at the next level, while Weimer will wilt in the face of MLB pitching talent and his will get worse. Both of them by 5 or 10 percent.
DonOsbourne
Noot and Helsley for Jansen? The more these trade demands are revealed, the more I understand the Contreras signing.
Crew2011
Not sure why brewers ever released Severino. Sure…there was the Ped suspension. We are not exactly opposed to the occasional tainted player lol. Never really gave him a chance. Last year AAA he hit 308. Would have been a good split with Caratini (switch hitter). Had another year of arb eligibility as I recall.
minor league guy
well, we DFA’d him in august since he had the least experience with our pitching staff then elected free agency after the season ended
Sourcetags
I feel like the only reason the article title wasn’t, “Brewers among teams interested in Sean Murphy,” is because the comments section would have given the writer a hard time
Echopark
Hmmmm. . If Brewers need long-term solution at catcher and don’t really have any top C prospects in the pipeline – they don’t – Dodgers can be a great match up for a trade. I’d still bet heavily against Dodgers pulling off a trade for one or any of Adames, Woodruff and/or Burnes, but Dodgers have solutions.
NerdSurfer
This would make sense for both teams
Chris Koch
Jeferson Quero says hi. He’ll be a top 100 prospect by this time next year.
minor league guy
quero will be a stud defensively, brewers #6 prospect. feliciano would be a fine backup backstop, so the brewers really just need someone to bridge the gap… i would doubt we are willing to give up much, if anything other than money, for that.
Chris Koch
I could understand an approach where say the Brewers traded for Moreno maybe including Quero to essentially speed up Quero’s arrival. Similar profile just one is ready. For Toronto it pushes their problem of 3catchers to 2 for 2 years. Would need a headliner.
minor league guy
it would surprise me if they would give up at least 2 top 10 organizational prospects at this point, knowing that there are more glaring holes organizationally than catcher
Chris Koch
They have 2 seasons to make a WS with Burnes leading your rotation. Moreno somehow found his way to top 10 preseason prospect lists prior to 2022. Quero is 1+ season of games before helping. Paying another top 10 Brewer prospect for immediate yet long term catcher depth certainly worth it. Jansen and Kirk don’t offer the longer team control Moreno does. Best of both worlds.
minor league guy
that it does, but it severely limits what you can do in season. with a chunk of our prospects looking like they’ll get significant playing time. plus a rookie catcher, ona new team could be a tall ask for a team whose competitive window is looking like 2 years
letsgomets 2
As a Mets fan, I would love to trade McCann and cash to the Brewers for something.
If you are a Brewers fan, I would be discussing Carson Kelly.
CoachWe
Sal Freylick: I am a season ticket holder for the Nashville Sounds. Freylick is going to be a superstar. The Brewers would be idiots to not start that kid day 1 in the OF. Absolute superstar potential.
eddiemathews
There is no why in Frelick.
Chris Koch
There’s no wh either
Spaced-Cowboy
Always concerning when someone touts a player they’ve watched closely but still manages to get their name wrong. I’ll take Wiemer over him, while having attended zero games.
minor league guy
frelick will be an on base machine while wiemer strikes me as more of a hunter renfroe type with better baserunning… IMO, they’ll both have prominent roles
baseballdeez
Frelick easily has the best bat to ball skillz with the lowest risk of the OF group, Chourio included. He’ll be an absolute stud leadoff hitter. Wiemer’s bat is the biggest question mark of the OF group given the moving parts of his swing and how violent it is. I hope they don’t trade any of the OFs as they each play a spot that makes sense (Frelick LF, Mitchell CF, Wiemer RF, Ruiz #4 playing all spots)….when Chourio comes along a move will have to be made (hopefully Yelich will be moved leaving the OF/DH for all these dudes to rotate)
Spike Hyzer
Ruiz is complete trash.
Spike Hyzer
And yet I think he has bust written all over him. Little guy with no power. Not a super great defender. Won’t hit MLB pitching as he has.
jbeerj
Frelick will be the Brewers version of Kenny Lofton.
Spike Hyzer
Which would be great if the Brewers could travel back in time to 1991 and insert him in the lead off spot in an era when OBP skills mattered.
And if Lofton hadn’t been 4 inches taller and a much better athlete (Frelick IS all of 5′ 8″ and not the 5′ 9″ that google claims or 5′ 10″ as BRef claims). I’d also bet that Lofton had a much bigger wingspan for his height than Frelick and that will matter at the wall, no matter how good a jump you get (Frelick would have to be like Darsho in terms of reaction time and jump, because like Darsho he doesn’t have elite speed like Lofton, Frelick and Darsho both merely being at the top of the second level for speed).
His best value is to be traded. Because people falsely believe he will be great. It’s not like we’d be trading away the next Cain or Khris Davis.
CoachWe
I agree that to compare him to Lofton is unfair. Lofton was special. He is in an elite category.
However, the modern day projection based on size is a spreadsheet geek thing. Perdroia was smaller than his 5’9″ listed height.. Altuve is 5’6″. Does it matter?
I watched Frelick live more than 20 times, and in my opinion, he is a keeper. Will he be anywhere close to what Perdroia & Altuve became? No, but If the Brewers trade him they will regret it.
nookster
Seeing alot of rumors on old guy sites MSN and Yahoo not even posted on this rumors site.
eddiemathews
Please elaborate!
stubby66
Well I might do a Haase trade for like a Toro and Cartini move or the one I would preferably do is Jansen for Lauer move, which I think would be fair for both sides
lambeau gang
The fact that this article does not mention Mario Feliciano once is a crime. There’s absolutely no reason that he shouldn’t be in the running for one of the Brewers’ primary catchers in 2023.
Chris Koch
Well, it is saying the GM is looking for an upgrade at Catcher. Would mean they don’t believe Feliciano is an upgrade over Caratini and himself.
BlueJ’sAllDay
Blue Jays trade: Gabriel Moreno
Brewers trade: Sal Frelick, Garrett Mitchell
Make it happen Ross Atkins!
Chris Koch
2 for 1? 1 of them sure. Great idea.
KamKid
I’d like one of Frelick or Mitchell and a fairly trustworthy optionable depth starter (Ethan Small maybe?) in a catcher trade with Toronto. I think Moreno has much more value than that through. Given what the Jays asked from the Cardinals for Jansen, they think Jansen does too.
Spike Hyzer
Frelick, sure.
Not the next Kris Bryant though.
BlueJ’sAllDay
Maybe Frelick and a lesser prospect then or a reliever. I’m not sold on Mitchell having a ton of value but maybe I’m wrong. I still would think Moreno brings back more than just Frelick.
Chris Koch
Frelick has an outstanding bat. He’ll be atop a lineup with a .300+/.370+ practically from day 1. The only reason he’s not ranked top 15 prospect is the slugging side profiles for CF and he’s projected just avg there. Move him to a corner and he’s not hitting enough HRs.
Mitchell is a sure-fire CF defender with HR potential. The BA/OB may have frustrating stretches. Wouldn’t be surprised Mitchell tops a year over 6WAR but somewhere in between 1.5-2.5 WAR years. Frelick likely a consistent 2.5+-4.5. Just not topping 5.
I think having looked at the trio of catchers, Moreno is likely untouchable, as he appears like a Mitchell type future. They would likely want to move 1 of the other 2 where defense at Catcher is not as good. Kirk makes sense but his 22 season makes him perfect sell high and I wouldn’t want to buy that. May be his best season ghe next 5years.
KamKid
I think it’s hard to line up exact values in these trades without knowing the goal of each organization. Are the Brewers trying to win now at the expense of the post Burnes and Woodruff years? In that case, they could get Jansen as a win now piece and would trade longer term pieces like Frelick in the deal. It’s worth it for them to do that if they really want to leverage the current roster but that also requires Toronto to be prioritizing the future as much as the now. Because if Toronto really wants to leverage their roster for right now because it’s the last year of Chapman, Springer is 33 and hard to know how much longer he’s going to be a major contributor, and the “core” which as far as I can see really only refers to two players is in their arb years now, the move would be to trade Moreno for a major win now piece even though you wouldn’t technically be getting good “value” on that trade. The value is the combination of the player and the opportunity that represents to the team. I suspect both the Brewers and the Jays are in the murky middle of that spectrum so it might be hard to really just have a lopsided player value type of trade. But they both do have opportunities with some complimentary surplus and depth that I think something could work out. We forget there are many ways to align value outside of the main pieces.
KamKid
Chris, there should be no reason to be wary of buying high on Kirk for the Brewers. While there are questions about how much catching workload Kirk could carry, he’s really taken a step forward with all parts of the game behind the plate and he’s an every day bat. He’s probably Toronto’s best hitter. Vlad of course has more ceiling and raw talent, but Kirk is something special. He blends uncanny bat to ball ability with a super advanced plate approach. An offense led by Adames and Tellez should have no problem letting Kirk DH 50-60 games a year. Even at his absolute floor, he’s a backup catcher which would still free up the DH spot a couple times a week to give other players a half day off their feet here and there. He’d immediately be the Brewers’ best hitter. There’s only really one framework here though, it’s one of Burnes or Woodruff. The Jays’ would be sacrificing the offense of Kirk but betting that Jansen and Moreno cover more of it than the difference between Woodruff and say Mitch White as things stand now. The Brewers would be sacrificing excellent pitching but really need both some offense and a catcher and they’d be getting a huge upgrade there. You’d be betting that Peralta, Lauer, Ashby can cover enough of the difference and you are deep enough to round out the back end. It’s a really uncomfortable trade for both teams but one I think would actually turn out well for both.
Chris Koch
Brewers may just be best served waiting to the pre-season prospect lists come out. All their top end prospects had good years. Frelick, Quero, even Mitchell may have drastic climbs.
Who else does Toronto have say in the scenario of trading Woodruff and Mitchell or Frelick to include with Kirk or Moreno?
KamKid
It depends on what the Brewers need. Orelvis Martinez is high ceiling, no floor so I don’t think is universally liked. Entered ‘22 as a top 50 prospect but the Jays gave him way too aggressive an assignment. Set some franchise minor league home run records at AA despite being several years younger than the average age for the level but also struck out nearly 30% of the time. Not going to stick at SS but has plenty enough power to profile at 3B. Already playing a fair bit at 3B. Other than that, they have some decently high floor position players but likely not ones with huge trade value so for Woodruff AND Mitchell, it might be harder to figure it out. Though in a scenario where they are bringing on a pitcher like Woodruff, they might be more likely to make some pitching available. Tiedemann’s value might be hard to peg down because he’s rising so fast but did need to have workload limits imposed so didn’t get to answer all the questions. Zulueta’s value may rise a lot with the current relief market as there is relief risk there but a lot of scouts see him holding upper 90s velocity deep into games with a full repertoire and think there’s certainly a starter there. I suspect in a Kirk/Woodruff type of framework, Milwaukee would want more of the value to be from the upper minors than upside plays on the younger prospects. Although 4 years of Kirk vs. 2 of Woodruff. I’m not really sure that value proposition skews to the Woodruff side.
Chris Koch
Your last part Kirk and Woodruff, is why I said with Mitchell or Frelick. Scanning pipeline top 30. Zuleta seems interesting as a need on late inning bullpen controlled is always a great secondary. Hayden Juenger sounds on same wave length just 0 Starter potential vs Zuleta. Deeper I noticed some corner IF bats in Spencer Horwitz or Addison Barger. They are both LH batters, but could see Milw flip Tellez sooner with Horwitz take over 1b. Barger hits the 3b profile Milw just hasn’t had for awhile.
Both hitters would go a long way on long term depth. It’d be cool then for a Woodruff/Mitchell trade for Kirk, the 2 bats, and 1 of those 2 RPs. That’s still pretty tough to swap the 2 for a Catcher with added control+those prospects. Woodruff instantly becomes your 2nd best SP that TOR will QO or extend. Yeah I couldn’t pull the trigger including Woodruff. Your catchers just added too much value this year to part with what their now worth. I’m signing a FA.
Spike Hyzer
I see him as a complete bust.
baseballdeez
Yes. Would take more than just Frelick but not both Frelick/Mitchell. Mitchell will be a stud defensive CF – excellent speed with a great arm. That speed is excellent on the bases too. With the shift going away I think it bodes well for guys like him with crazy speed, especially while being a lefty. I see him as a 110+ OPS+ hitter with potential for more while being very valuable defensively
BlueJ’sAllDay
I think both yourself and Balldeez are pretty spot on Chris. When the Jays had the fifth pick a few years ago and took Austin Martin I was researching the draft class heavily. Mitchell’s tools really stood out and I really was shocked he fell all the way down to the Brewers at 20. He seemed like a for sure top 15 pick. But he’s got a lot of swing and miss to his game. You look at his mlb debut this year and he struck out 28 times in 61 AB’s. That’s downright nasty. Teams and pitchers haven’t even dialed into his weaknesses yet. He’s going to have to make some serious adjustments at the plate to be able to be a mlb regular. His tools are elite though no doubt.
I don’t think Moreno is untouchable. Kirk is the guy and believe me this year was not a fluke. He is the best all around hitter I’ve seen for the jays in the last decade or so. His bat to ball skills are crazy elite. He pretty much never chases outside of the zone and can handle anybody’s high velo or nasty junk. I’ve never seen him look over matched during an at-bat. I guarantee he will continue to put up silver slugger worthy seasons for the foreseeable future. His defense is actually a lot better than people might realize. I’ve watched every game he’s ever played and believe me he’s solid. Framing, blocking, throwing, nothing stands out as a weakness.
jra0903
Provided he still has it after missing most of this last season, Mike Zunino would not be a bad pickup for the Crew.
minor league guy
thats the kind of low risk low ceiling type of moves the brew crew is used to
Spike Hyzer
Counsell has suggested Chourio could see MLB this year.
Not sure what to do about C.
Still seems to me that trading for Paredes to play 3B, with Urias at 2B and Turang apprenticing as the utility guy would be best.
That would be an IF that would hit 100 HRs easily, which the OF should as well with Mitchell and Taylor.
Then we could just sign any old cheap defensive C and accept it to be a black hole on offense. Unless Mario comes up and rakes (but that might mean some rough spots on D and in calling games).