Entering the offseason, there were several high-profile catchers available for teams seeking upgrades — and the list of teams in search of an upgrade was quite long. Two months into the offseason, however, the options have dwindled in a hurry. Willson Contreras broke the hearts of many Cubs fans by signing for five years with the division-rival Cardinals. Christian Vazquez, the No. 2 catching option on the free-agent market, is headed to Minnesota on a three-year contract. Sean Murphy, the top option overall, was traded to a team that didn’t even expressly need a catcher — the Braves — and as a result of what wound up being a three-team swap, the Brewers saw William Contreras fall into their laps. Omar Narvaez signed with the Mets on a two-year, $15MM deal that gives him a chance to return to the market next winter.
Other teams have made smaller-scale moves. Cleveland added former Rays and Mariners slugger Mike Zunino on a one-year deal, likely removing them from the market. The A’s wound up taking Manny Pina’s contract from the Braves in that Murphy deal, so they’re unlikely to pursue a backup to prospect Shea Langeliers. The Reds inked Cincinnati native Luke Maile to back up Tyler Stephenson.
As MLBTR’s Darragh McDonald explored last week, the catching market has been largely picked over — with one notable exception. The Blue Jays have yet to trade any of their three big league-caliber catchers: Danny Jansen, Alejandro Kirk or Gabriel Moreno. There’s no dire need in Toronto to move any of that trio, but the Jays are a win-now team with a catching surplus and needs elsewhere on the roster (left-handed bat, bullpen help). Trading one of those catchers could bring back some needed help for the 2023 campaign while simultaneously adding a prospect or two to their system.
Blue Jays general manager Ross Atkins acknowledged the Jays’ surplus today, calling the catching market “exceptionally strong” but also expressing he’d be comfortable carrying all three of his catchers into the 2023 season (Twitter links via Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet). Moreover, Atkins suggested his focus is now shifting to improving the lineup — likely by adding a left-handed bat that could slot somewhere into the outfield mix. With many (but not all) of the top options on the free-agent market already picked over, it stands to reason the Jays could leverage their catching surplus to help address that need.
Of course, with so many teams having already filled their catching needs, the Blue Jays’ trade partners aren’t quite as plentiful as they might have been a few weeks ago. However, while they’ll likely be dealing with a smaller number of clubs now, the Jays have more leverage with those teams still seeking a catcher, because there just isn’t much else available in terms of starting-caliber difference makers behind the plate. Toronto’s wealth of catching options makes for one of the more fascinating trade scenarios around the league, so it seems worth it to take a closer look at the situation as a whole.
The potential trade candidates
Danny Jansen, 27, controlled through 2024 via arbitration (projected $3.7MM salary, per MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz)
It’s been an up-and-down career at the plate for Jansen, in part because injuries have intervened at times. Jansen missed more than a month in 2022 with separate injuries (broken finger, oblique strain) and missed a combined two months of the 2021 season with two separate hamstring strains. He’s played in just 142 games over the past two seasons.
On the flip side, Jansen has been anywhere from an above-average to excellent hitter in three of his five Major League seasons. He struggled in 2019-20 but since Opening Day 2021 carries a .243/.321/.496 batting line with 26 home runs in just 453 plate appearances. Jansen has easily the most power of the Jays’ three potentially available catchers and could realistically pop 25-plus homers if he were to stay healthy for a full season.
Defensively, Jansen has been about average in terms of caught-stealing rate and has above-average framing marks for his career, though those dipped to below-average in 2022 (perhaps not coincidentally, given that the aforementioned fractured finger was on his glove hand). Jansen has two arb years left but shouldn’t break the bank in that time. There are health concerns, but he’s a clear starting-caliber catcher who’d be an improvement for more than a third of the teams in MLB.
Alejandro Kirk, 24, controlled through 2026 (pre-arbitration in 2023)
Kirk only turned 24 in November but already has two years of Major League service time, an All-Star nod and a Silver Slugger under his belt. He appeared in 139 games for the Jays in 2022, serving as their primary catcher while Jansen missed time due to the aforementioned injuries. Along the way, Kirk hit .285/.372/.415 with 14 homers and 19 doubles. A hit-over-power player, Kirk has a career .278/.362/.426 slash with an 11% walk rate against an 11.1% strikeout rate (83 walks to 84 strikeouts).
Strong as the bat is, Kirk isn’t without limitations. He’s one of the slowest players in baseball (third percentile sprint speed, per Statcast) and has a below-average caught-stealing rate, due in part to slow “pop times” when coming out of his crouch; Statcast rated his pop time to second base in the 32nd percentile of MLB catchers. On the other hand, Kirk draws outstanding framing marks and above-average grades for blocking pitches in the dirt.
Gabriel Moreno, 22, controlled through at least 2028 (pre-arbitration in 2023)
Moreno is likely the most difficult of the entire bunch to move, given his remaining six years of club control and status as one of the five best prospects in baseball. He’ll turn 23 in February and just wrapped up a season that saw him bat .315/.386/.420 in 267 Triple-A plate appearances before batting .319/.356/.377 with just an 11% strikeout rate in 73 MLB plate appearances as a rookie.
While he’s not billed as a major power threat — Moreno’s career-high in homers is 12, and he hit just four in 2022 — Moreno draws praise from scouting reports for a potential plus-plus hit tool and strong glovework behind the dish. He’s not necessarily “fast,” but he’s not the plodder many would expect from any catcher. He drew average grades for his speed on scouting reports, and Statcast pegged him right in the 50th percentile for sprint speed this past season. Even if he’s not hitting more than 10 to 15 homers per year, Moreno has the potential to post high batting averages and on-base percentages while providing better-than-average defense behind the plate.
Which teams are likely OUT on a catcher
Teams that already added a starter this winter
Any of the Jays’ three catchers would be viewed as a potential starter on a substantial portion of MLB’s 30 teams, but as noted above, a fair number of teams have already found a new starting catcher this winter. Don’t expect the Cardinals (Willson Contreras), Twins (Christian Vazquez), Braves (Sean Murhpy), Brewers (William Contreras), Guardians (Mike Zunino) or Mets (Omar Narvaez) to make a play for one of Jansen, Kirk or Moreno after all six of those clubs already landed a new starting backstop this winter.
Teams that already have a standout or promising young incumbent
The Braves’ acquisition of Murphy shows that teams can never fully be ruled out of finding a creative way to acquire a new, impact player — but it still seems unlikely that any of the remaining clubs with a high-end starter behind the dish will make a play for a Jays catcher. That means the Phillies (J.T. Realmuto), Dodgers (Will Smith), Orioles (Adley Rutschman), Reds (Tyler Stephenson) and Royals (Salvador Perez, defensive issues notwithstanding) all seem unlikely to pursue any of Toronto’s backstops.
Teams with controllable young catchers of their own will also likely steer clear. Seattle’s Cal Raleigh had his OBP woes in ’22 but also hit with more power than any catcher in MLB. Top Angels prospect Logan O’Hoppe will get every opportunity to establish himself in 2023. The Rangers’ Jonah Heim and Yankees’ Jose Trevino, both standout defenders with several years of club control remaining, remove any urgency for either club to dive headlong into this market as well.
Rebuilding clubs with young catchers
You could certainly make that argument that a rebuilding team like the Nationals, A’s or Pirates would be wise to pursue Kirk or especially Moreno, but the Jays are going to want controllable, MLB-ready help in return, which a lot of rebuilding clubs don’t have in spades. Add in the fact that the Nats (Keibert Ruiz), A’s (Shea Langeliers, Tyler Soderstrom) and Pirates (Henry Davis, Endy Rodriguez) all have young catchers of note already in house, and a trade becomes more difficult to see.
Long shot teams (for one reason or another)
The White Sox would probably be thrilled to get their hands on a Jays catcher, but Toronto’s top need is a left-handed-hitting outfielder, and Gavin Sheets isn’t going to be the centerpiece for anyone in this Toronto catching corps. The Sox also have a year and $18.25MM to go on their deal with Yasmani Grandal — a contract not easily moved. I’m sure the Tigers would love Kirk or Moreno, but they’re lacking in MLB talent from which to deal.
The Padres got a disappointing year from Austin Nola in 2022 but also have ballyhooed top prospect Luis Campusano as an in-house alternative. The Marlins still need catching help after a poor showing from Jacob Stallings but lack the MLB-ready outfield help the Jays might covet in trade. The Rockies are in a similar boat, having received a dismal showing from Elias Diaz in 2023. Like the Marlins, they’re short on the type of big league help the Jays would seek.
The most logical trade partners (listed alphabetically)
- Astros: After missing out on Willson Contreras in free agency, the Astros will once again entrust light-hitting Martin Maldonado behind the plate. Maldonado played through a hernia and a broken bone in his hand, but his lack of production can’t be blamed on those injuries alone. Dating back to 2015, Maldonado’s 72 wRC+ is 16th-worst among 459 qualified MLB hitters. The Astros love Maldonado’s defense, game calling, game planning, and clubhouse leadership — and to his/their credit, they won a World Series with Maldonado as their primary catcher. That said, he’ll be 37 next summer and is on a one-year deal. Prospect Korey Lee hasn’t hit much above A-ball. There’s a good on-paper fit here, though the elephant in the room is that the Astros lack the MLB-ready bat the Jays might covet in return; Kyle Tucker surely isn’t going anywhere.
- Cubs: The Cubs let Contreras walk, deferring to the older and more defensively-minded Yan Gomes while waiting for prospect Miguel Amaya, who missed much of last season while recovering from Tommy John surgery. Any of the three Jays catchers would be an upgrade to the Cubs’ roster, and either Kirk or Moreno would supplant Amaya as the organization’s catcher of the future. The Cubs don’t have the controllable, big-league-ready bat the Jays might prefer, but they could send a year of switch-hitting outfielder Ian Happ and a prospect package behind him if they were to become serious about landing a Toronto catcher.
- D-backs: The cleanest fit for a good-old-fashioned “baseball” trade, the D-backs have four left-handed-hitting outfielders — Jake McCarthy, Daulton Varsho, Alek Thomas and Corbin Carroll — and are open to offers in a similar capacity to the Jays with regard to their catchers. Carroll seems all but untouchable, but any of McCarthy, Varsho or Thomas seems like a feasible starting point when looking at Toronto’s more controllable catchers (Kirk, Moreno). Toronto and Arizona are excellent trade partners, in this regard.
- Giants: There’s likely still hope in San Francisco that Joey Bart can solidify himself as the everyday catcher, but he’s seen MLB time in three seasons now and owns a .222/.294/.351 slash in 408 plate appearances. Bart hasn’t dominated Triple-A pitching, either, and the Giants at least inquired with the A’s about Murphy before his trade to Atlanta. Like the ’Stros, however, I’m not sure the Giants have the sort of immediate upgrades Toronto would seek. Mike Yastrzemski and LaMonte Wade Jr. are both lefty-swinging outfielders with three remaining years of club control, but both are coming off down seasons at the plate.
- Rays: Francisco Mejia hasn’t developed into the hitter anyone hoped, and journeyman Christian Bethancourt posted a .265 OBP with the Rays in 2022. The Rays were a rumored suitor for Murphy and checked in on Willson Contreras at the trade deadline. They’re clearly open to augmenting the catching staff, though payroll is always a consideration. The Rays aren’t deep in left-handed bats, but Brandon Lowe, Josh Lowe and Jonathan Aranda could all have some appeal to the Jays. The former Lowe is still signed affordably for four years, though, while the latter has yet to deliver on his former top prospect status. Aranda, meanwhile, has torn through upper-minors pitching but is a poor defender who lacks a clear defensive home. With the Rays, of course, it’s worth wondering whether division rivals would even be amenable to swapping long-term pieces.
- Red Sox: That last point on the Rays applies here, too, but the trade of Vazquez (and his subsequent deal with the Twins) leaves the Sox with a combination of Reese McGuire and Connor Wong behind the plate. Boston doesn’t have another catcher on the 40-man roster, and the closest they have to an MLB-ready catching prospect is Ronaldo Hernandez, who went unclaimed on waivers two weeks ago. This is an organization that would benefit either from a two-year bridge like Jansen or, more improbably, a long-term solution like Kirk or Moreno. Perhaps there’d need to be some pieces added to balance both sides of the deal, but either Alex Verdugo or Jarren Duran fall into the bucket of MLB-ready outfield help the Jays could consider.
The D-backs represent the cleanest fit, in my view, though there are plenty of other options to consider, particularly if you want to brainstorm potential three-teams swaps like the one that sent Murphy to Atlanta. The bottom line, however, is that while many catching-needy teams have filled their vacancies, the Jays should still have plenty of interest in their catchers in the weeks to come. At this point, the majority of the roads on the catching market run through Toronto.
Buzz Killington
I say trade them all and bring back Reese McGuire. Guy has insane grip strength. He’s so dedicated that he practices in his car at parking lots.
Greenwell
Definitely not going to let any passed balls
Greenwell
*allow any passed balls
#1WhiteSoxFan
As a Sox fan, I would only want Moreno.
Jansen is injury prone and Kirk is slow and cannot throw anyone out.
So good luck to Toronto getting anything more than a “Gavin Sheets” from the Sox.
Jaysfan1981
If you wanted Moreno, Gavin sheets is the throw in lol
I dont even think I’d trade Moreno for anyone currently on the WS roster (non pitchers)
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
The Diamondbacks already have a backup catcher. They just have him play in the outfield (Varsho).
DTD/ATL1313
So they have an OF then
mj-2
Surprised the Braves weren’t on the list tbh
highheat
He did get 175 innings behind the plate last season, though. A good number of his appearances consisted of:
a.) starting at C against RHP with LHH across the OF, but then PH Carson Kelly when a LHP comes in against one of the weaker OF bats (shifting Varsho to the OF to tighten up C and OF defense in later stages of the game)
b.) starting Kelly at C against LHP and a RHH bat in the OF, then PH Varsho for whichever one of the two is optimal at the time (going in Carson’s spot is an offense/defense tradeoff, but going for the RHH OF is just a defensive upgrade)
He’s not a great defensive C, but he definitely fits as an offensive minded backup (and his OF defense gives Torey options).
Nantaico
Who’s to say they trade one for the lefty outfielder they need?
They could trade one for a starter and sign Conforto…
deweybelongsinthehall
That actually makes sense if Conforto is willing to do a one year deal
Jaysfan1981
Believe Boras has said 1+1 with the plus one being player option, so he can get 10 million next year if he poops the bed
bigdaddyt
That’s what I want, maybe if you can’t find the best starter maybe just a serviceable #4 type and the jays add Yusei and Sign Conforto with the money they save since they are pretty close to the tax
udaman
You left out the Tigers. They could use some catching help with only Eric Haase and Jake Rogers who is coming off of Tommy John surgery on the 40 man roster.
tigerfan4ever
Scott Harris doesn’t seem to be in on anyone. From what I observe, he wants to see what he has before he acquires anyone beyond what he has already. He may think that acquiring someone will block Dingler who is projected to start at Toledo. The Tigers don’t know what they have in Rogers after TJ so Harris may want to do an extensive evaluation at the major league level too.
Hello, Newman
I think Casali makes the most sense. No need trading any young talent just yet. Casali gives them short term trade capabilities and leadership experience. Narvaez was my first choice
tigerfan4ever
Of what’s left, I’d prefer Casali too. I hope Barnhart does not return. He was a hot mess.
the guru
Jansen had 1 outlier yr. Tigers are not trading for danny jansen, another teams backup like barnhart was. Theyre not trading for kirk either who is wider than he is tall. (listed at 5’8 270.) More like 5’6 280+.. Just not happening, they’re not that dumb. Rogers led the MLB in CSB% and had an OPS better than Kirk in his last yr.
Yankee Clipper
Miami might be open to trading Jacob Stallings too. He’s coming off of a down year so the price point should be low.
fre5hwind
I was going to say one on one trade Korey Lee for Danny Jansen.
stymeedone
Soto for one of the TOR C seems like a fit. It would definitely strengthen the Pen for the Blue Birds.
Jaysfan1981
Jays already declined a trade with STL for their elite BP guy, name escapes me currently
Can’t see them trading Jansen for Soto either
But that doesn’t mean Soto wouldn’t look good in Blue
Nantaico
Helsley
Jaysfan1981
Thank you
i94jim
Give them Soto and Meadows (he’s due for a turnaround). Tigers have too many lefty hitting outfielders. Get one of Kirk or Moreno.
Nantaico
Lol.. Soto and Meadows together may not get Jansen.. Kirk or Moreno?? Not even remotely a chance. Jays want one big upgrade. Meadows is not an upgrade on anything and Soto isn’t a high k reliever so he’s not worth much at all..
tiredolddude
Depends on which Meadows you’re talking about, no? The one who had a couple good years in TB or the one who is battling injuries and anxiety issues
Hope the kid makes a strong recovery this year
Nantaico
For sure. I’d take the Rays Meadows any day.. but that’s not his value right now.
Franco27
The Cubs aren’t giving up Happ and prospects for a backup catcher like Jansen. That doesn’t make any sense. Maybe a couple of prospects for Jansen, nothing more. Happ will more than likely sign an extension soon.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
The Cubs are not trading for a catcher at all. They will sign Barnhart or Casali.
BashBroJoe
Jansen racked up 3 WAR in 70 games. He’s starting on the majority of major league teams.
Led Hoyer
I agree. Happ is one of their best hitters it would make no sense to trade him after pumping all this money into the team. A glove first catcher is cheap and plentiful. Go grab one.
Yankee Clipper
I believe Happ also won a Gold Glove in ‘22 too. Most of all, despite Jansen’s flashes of power, I’d pay close attention to the fact that last season Jansen had a career season thus far, with an OBP, SLG, and OPS (obviously) well above his career norms (like .100 points or more).
Additionally, he’s only appeared in more games in one other season (2019) and that was 107. And even in that super ball year, his offense wasn’t that good.
So, as a Jays fans I’d be wildly optimistic that Jansen is coming into his own during his prime years at 27. If I was evaluating him from another team, I’d be curious if he could:
1) Actually remain healthy enough to get to 120+ games, and
2) repeat anything close to 2022.
Led Hoyer
Absolutely. He won a gold glove, decent power and can hit from both sides of the plate. I can’t see the cubs trading top prospects unless they are in the hunt at the deadline, 40 man roster crunch (not for a year or two), or a long term impactful player becomes available. I don’t think Danny Jansen is that guy.
Canuckleball
@ Yankee Clipper
Jansens health is a legitimate concern. On the upside, his injuries aren’t chronic, yet he seems to get many fluky injuries, often not related to catching itself (hit by pitch while batting, baserunning, etc.)
In regards to offense, after returning from an injury late in the 2021 season, he came back with a new approach as noted by the local broadcasters. He had spent his whole career to that point trying to hit to all fields and be a “good hitter”. It wasn’t working so he decided to go full pull hitter and just go for power, screw the batting average. Since that change, he’s a new hitter. He’s made himself into a legit power threat through 1 and a ¼ seasons. The approach has held up, so far.
Yankee Clipper
Canuck: Ah, that’s really interesting, man, thanks for the info on that. It makes a lot of sense too. If his approach changed his swing that much that’s unreal!
It’s why I enjoy these forums too. Talking to fans who know these guys in-and-out & watch them all the time is invaluable when looking at the context of statistics, which only tell part of the story.
It explains why their asking price is high too.
Javia135
The problem is that the Jays are trying to move Jansen at the same price as Kirk or Moreno. Jansen has a lifetime OPS+ of 98 in 4 seasons. You can say that he recently changed his approach at the plate and last year is the new him, but obviously other teams aren’t buying that narrative. He is an average Catcher with 2 years of control. You don’t get a large haul for those players.
highheat
@Yankee Clipper
Exactly right, I love hearing why everybody values their players so highly (I don’t even play Fantasy anymore, but that always helped with sneaky value picks).
#1WhiteSoxFan
Jansen hamstring injuries are chronic.
Canuckleball
@ Javia135
Exactly why I don’t love the idea of trading Jansen. No one will value him properly because of the lack of track record of the new approach.
Here’s a link to an article detailing his mental makeover:
sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/derailed-by-injury-jansen…
I’d rather the Jays moved Moreno out to 2nd base like Craig Biggio. I think Moreno could handle the change in position given his foot speed and agility. It would solve their problem at 2nd and keep his bat in the lineup and just roll with a platoon of Jansen/Kirk behind the dish like last year.
highheat
@Canuckleball Moreno’s bat would play great at 2B (little less so at 3B, but the arm fits there), and that would be similar to experiment the DBacks did with Varsho in CF.
I doubt Moreno qualifies for Gold Gloves at 2B (or 3B), but if he proves he’s even an average defender at either spot along with his C defense his value goes up quite a bit.
DTD/ATL1313
An average catcher with power is a pretty dang good selling point in a league full of such uninspiring catching depth.
Dr2022
@clipper. if any these guys can hit, then the Yankees should be in on them. They need to get hitting from somewhere, anywhere. They’ve done nothing to upgrade their offense at this point. And it will be worse this year, Judge will be worse, law of averages, so right there the the offense is diminished.
Yankee Clipper
Yeah, offense is necessary. Knowing Cashman, he’s on the wait-and-see annual plan. Then at the trade deadline he will try to make a move.
I wonder about Conforto. Is his price too high? Are his medical signifying danger? He’s a good player when healthy, and he can obviously handle NY. Plus he’s a LH bat.
Bluejay4life
Janson isn’t a backup catcher. He’s a starting catcher. And I hope the don’t trade him. The jaysbhave a better winning record when he’s catching
C-Daddy
@davro
Did you even read the article? Jansen is probably the starter on half the teams in MLB. One could even argue that he’s as good as or better than Contreras at this point.
Led Hoyer
I mean that’s not exactly saying a lot considering it’s the thinnest position in the mlb. He had a great 2022 but I certainly wouldn’t trade the bank for him. He hasn’t had a full workload since 2019 and that was pretty ugly.
Jaysfan1981
As a Jays fan, im preferential to Arizona and their good young LHH OFs
highheat
I’d say keep an eye out for the trade deadline or next offseason.
This is probably Carson’s last shot to run away with the C position, and by either of those points everybody should have a more consistent evaluation of all the players.
Jaysfan1981
Probably have to be the deadline.
Can’t see the Jays having 3 catchers going into next season too.
phenomenalajs
Didn’t the Pirates just sign Austin Hedges? I don’t think they’d jump into this trade sweepstakes.
jaysorbust16
I feel like the Marlins need to be on the list of possible trade candidates. I would gladly inquire about a possible trade for their surplus of SP. Garrett or Luzardo could become decent number 4-5 options in the rotation. Marlins definitely could use an MLB ready catcher. Don’t know if Luzardo would require as much in player capital or not but another lefty is always helpful.
Shishka
Completely agree, I like and appreciate this detailed article but it doesn’t consider the possibility that the Jays might be interested in trading a catcher for a solid starting pitcher.. The Marlins absolutely make sense as a trading partner. if that’s the route they choose. Luzardo would get the Jays’ interest for sure.
#1WhiteSoxFan
Moreno for Giolito
hyraxwithaflamethrower
You make White Sox fans look like morons. Gio might land Jansen, but even then you’re creating a hole on the roster. Sox would have to give up Hendriks, Colas, and a fair bit more to even get the Blue Jays’ attention on Moreno.
PutPeteinthehall
Hendriks is a one year rental with a high price tag. He’s not the kind of player moved in this kind of deal. Colas, Cespedes and maybe a throw in for Moreno.
The money Hendriks is making makes his trade value low right now. His value will be way up in July if he’s throwing well and the White Sox are selling.
Braves Butt-Head
Why not the Braves lol. They traded for catching when it wasn’t a need. So maybe they can work a 3 way trade and trade Travis d’Arnaud.
Rsox
Moreno would probably bring back the best return, but then Kirk was an All Star last year so he will come at a pretty high price which Leaves Jansen as the likeliest to be dealt.
To varying degrees Jansen makes sense for several teams; the Red Sox/Rays/Astros/Angels/Cubs/Rockies/Padres/Giants all match up with a need. It just depends on what Toronto is asking for
TheGreatBaseballMind
Not so much the Angels though in my humble opinion.
Rsox
Insurance in case O’Hoppe isn’t ready/has a bad spring and Stassi is fairly injury prone so depth wouldn’t be a bad thing
TheGreatBaseballMind
That’s what she said! 🙂 No. Depth is never a bad thing but frequently the budget isn’t large enough to accommodate it.
.
Earmuffs for the kiddos..
deweybelongsinthehall
Can’t see an intra-division deal plus how good is Jansen really? I’d trade Duran who will never make it as an outfielder. I hope I’m wrong because he seems like a good kid. He takes bad routes to the ball and only has the arm for playing left in Fenway. Even then I could envision Bartolo Colon tagging up at third on him…sort of like a sorry slo-mo movie scene – will the ball ever get to the catcher and can Bartolo actually go 90 feet without needing oxygen?
Rsox
Unfortunately given those defensive shortcomings you just mention Bartolo could probably stop halfway between 3rd and home for an oxygen hit and still score easily
deweybelongsinthehall
Agreed.
KamKid
Jansen is harder to find a match for if they are looking for specific major league roster needs like a LH outfielder. Easier if they are willing to take a package of prospects. Given the rumours around the St. Louis negotiations, I think they aren’t keen to move Jansen just for the sake of it.
Maybe something like Jansen for Happ or Yastrzemski could happen? Padres for Kim? Hard to really find those major league need for major league need trades.
TheGreatBaseballMind
Happ and Jansen is not going to happen. Cubs are planning to contend in 2023 and Happ is their left fielder. If at the trade deadline the Cubs are out of it and decide to trade Happ, it won’t be for one and a half years of Jansen. Cubs will sign a catcher to pair with Gomes.
KamKid
Other pieces could be involved. But yeah, the Cubs are spending some money this year to hang around in the standings. It wouldn’t make a lot of sense to trade prospects for shorter term pieces like Jansen just yet but also probably not worth the return to trade an expiring contract like Happ given they could easily have enough go right to grab a wildcard. Like I said, these major league for major league need for need trades are hard to line up on. Seems like they either need to be part of bigger multi player deals or motivated by a financial picture where one team is trying to walk that tightrope of trying to get cheaper without getting worse.
TheGreatBaseballMind
I just frequently read Happ for Jansen and I think once I even read Happ and a prospect for Jansen and I thought NOOOOOO!!!!! If the Cubs trade for Jansen, it will be with prospects and even there I do not see a match that BOTH teams would agree to. Guessing the Cubs will sign Barnhart to platoon with Gomes.
coup
I’m hoping the Padres are interested in one of Toronto’s catchers. Campusano hasn’t done anything at the Major league level yet and I’ve read that he has maturity issues as well. Danny Jansen would be nice. Good defense as well as a powerful bat. Not sure what the Blue Jays would expect back.
Jaysfan1981
Jansen for Grisham might work.
Kim and Cronenworth might be good ideas for the Jays as well
seamaholic 2
That would leave the Padres without a centerfielder.
Jaysfan1981
They have 13 SS, im sure one is athletic enough to play CF
KamKid
What’s the plan with Kim now that you have Xander? Jays were interested in Kim as a free agent and have been stressing run prevention this offseason. Jays fans would love to have a SS that makes it an obvious decision to move Bichette of the position.
coup
Kim is moving to 2B. At least to start the season. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Kim back at SS if Bogaerts defense falls back to usual levels though.
Javia135
The Padres just signed a Catcher. It seems Kim and Crone are staying in sunny San Diego.
Rsox
The Padres are not going to ask Bogaerts to learn a new position during the season. Kim is capable of playing 2B just fine and Machado playing 3B should more than compensate for Xander’s lack of range
KamKid
Is that really plan A? As constructed, that makes sense now. But isn’t Cronenworth a little miscast as a 1B? If you can upgrade at catcher, Cronenworth could go back to 2B. It seems like it would be easier to address 1B than C. Or even 2B if that’s what you want. The Jays have a bunch of guys on their roster whose primary position is 2B who could be included. Depending on your other depth needs those guys collectively cover the whole diamond defensively. Jansen and Merrifield for Kim would be close to cash neutral I think. Or other players and cash could be included to make it that way if it matters.
I’m not sure if I have a good read on Kim’s value in the trade market. There’s a part of me that thinks he’s a decently paid utility player so there’s not a whole lot of surplus value, but then I see the contract for Swanson and think if we really view Kim as a comfortably league average hitter and great defensive SS, he must be worth quite a bit. Especially if we apply the premise that the Jays hold leverage with the high cards in the catching market, if SD made Kim available, they’d hold the high card in the SS market.
#1WhiteSoxFan
Padres just picked up a C!
mrmet17
And who ever doesn’t trade for a Blue Jays catcher can trade for one or two from the Mets
Jake1972
The Cubs would be wise to get one but the price might be too high.
Samuel
Come ‘on….
MLBTR has been writing this article every other day for weeks now.
Jaysfan1981
Yet you keep clicking and commentating
It’s obviously working
jaysorbust16
I still think the Marlins need to be more of an option for a likely trade candidate. Marlins have a SP surplus, we have a catching surplus. Stallings could be a good backup to any of our three options. Garrett and Luzardo would be great number 4-5 options and with years of control. Sign Conforto and look for another RP.
seamaholic 2
Marlins another team that will be in the market for guys who are controlled for more than 2 years (which is Jansen’s situation). So unless the Jays are dangling Kirk or Moreno, they won’t be interested. Moreno to Marlins could generate a REAL interesting response though.
Rsox
Problem is the Marlins aren’t going to pay Stallings and Jansen $3-4 million each
Synic122 2
McCann bloes
jaysorbust16
I still believe they need to add more SP first. Make a trade with the Marlins for their glut of pitchers. Make a move for Garrett or Luzardo, both of whom have a years of control and would make solid number 4-5 options to bolster our rotation. Stallings is mediocre at best and any of our three options behind the dish would make excellent starters in Miami. Sign Conforto or Peralta for the OF power and look for another RP.
Redsoxx_62
Jansen at Fenway would be great, but I doubt the Jays would trade to a division rival… even if we’re pretty likely to finish in the basement this season
Jaysfan1981
And certainly not for Duran who allowed an inside the park slam losing a ball and not even trying afterwards
Might as well throw Downs in as well lol
deweybelongsinthehall
Jaysfan, Duran made a big mistake that day but we all have at one time or another. My gripe is he worked on his bat at the expense of his glove. He’s been awful in the field. No other way to put it.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
I am curious; out of Dalbec and Duran, who do you see as projecting out to be a serviceable major leaguer long term?? Both ?? Or are they ceiling AAAA players???? Thnx
stroh
You’ve way over-rated the value of the Blue Jays catchers. Are you high suggesting Kyle Tucker in a trade?
Rollie's Mustache
He didn’t suggest that.
“Kyle Tucker surely isn’t going anywhere.”
Jaysfan1981
Yea Tucker would be nice, but we’d probably have to trade Kirk and Moreno plus prospects for him.
Champs64
Steve Adam’s did an exorbitantly amount of good work on this comprehensive look into the MLB catching situation. Well done.
Jaysfan1981
Agreed, a well written thorough and comprehensive article.
.
They accept Tips
Jaysfan1981
They should post crypto addresses for Donations somewhere
stroh
And I don’t understand the comment about Korey Lee being an Astros prospect who hasn’t hit above A ball. The guy hit 25 HRs in AAA last year and didn’t even play there the entire year. His batting average was .238 and that’s not great but the guy does have some pop. I think that and suggesting that Tucker, a gold glove outfielder who hit 30 HRs, 100 RBIs, and stole 25 bases last year would be thought of in a trade for one of the Blue Jays catchers who played part-time is crazy. I am sure Cubs fans think the same thing of Ian Happ. No way. Whomever the Stros get, it’ll be someone that splits time with Maldonado. And it could be Korey Lee or Yainer Diaz (who has hit .321 in his minor league career).
Canuckleball
Again, he clearly stated Tucker is not going any where. Re-read it.
Jaysfan1981
No, the article didn’t suggest Tucker for Jansen, it suggests Tucker would be who Toronto wants, and Mr Adams explicitly states ” Tucker isn’t going anywhere”
stroh
Toronto wanting Tucker for one of their catchers is absurd to suggest, that’s my point. Toronto might as well ask for Alvarez. They would be lucky to get a minor leaguer like Pedro Leon in return.
highheat
Well, considering that they’re only moving one of the C to upgrade the MLB roster, they’re literally guaranteed to get more than a minor leaguer in return… because a deal wouldn’t be made otherwise.
neo
it’s a good thing it wasn’t suggested here — it was specifically mentioned as not a possibility in Toronto’s interest in a MLB ready left handed bat.
It wasn’t disputing a rumor that the proposal was out there, it was disputing that Astros had a way to match up with Toronto in the search to make up viable rumors
Moonlight Graham
Yes, Arizona represents the cleanest trade partner. A three-way trade that involves the Cardinals sending a lefty bat to Toronto could also work well. Also, I have to imagine the Tigers would be open to moving Austin Meadows, while strengthening the catching core.
The St. L options:
Nolan Gorman
Alec Burleson
Lars Nootbar
Brendan Donovan
Dylan Carlson (please, no)
Jaysfan1981
Gorman Nootbar and Carlson are all Yes’s
As far as Meadows, I don’t think he gets you Jansen alone, Gurriel Jr for Meadows is something I’d be up for. Kinda losing faith in Lourdes. He seems more interested in dancing , throwing seeds and playing with his hair than getting better at his craft
Damn think I just tanked his value
Moonlight Graham
Let’s see if we can pump Lourdes’ value back up… Hands down, best hair in the league!
Don’t discount Burleson. He can rake. It wouldn’t be a 1-for-1 for Jansen, but there are of course ways to even things out.
When Meadows is right, he’s pretty darn good. I’d rather have his bat than one too many catchers. Of course, Meadows has to be right. But if he is, just imagine him hitting between Springer and Guerrero…
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
@Jaysfan I hope Teo doesn’t bring his dancing routine and seed play he learned from Vlady & Lourdes to the Mariners dugout…Mariners need to stay focused lol. Although always looks like he’s happy & practices “good vibes only”…in that regard he will get along well with Eugenio Suarez lol.
neo
If Giants were willing to move Yastrzemski for Jansen, the Jays would have to look at that fit.
ChrisEnvy76
The Cubs need to pick up one of those catchers. I am all for signing Conforto and trading for Jansen. The Cubs also need to sign Mancini though. Happ being a union rep is probably going to be a real pain to resign. If they know they can’t resign him then absolutely trade him and sign Conforto for 1-2 years. If they also get Mancini, that lineup will look better… If they can find a 3B short term in Longoria, Drury, or a trade… they will be in good shape for a decent run this year.
Awesom-O
If I’m running the cubs, I run this team out there and see what happens, regarding happ. I see no reason whatsoever trading him for an okay-ish catcher. If happ does what he did last year and the cubs still suck by July, they’ll get just as much/more than Danny Jensen.
ChrisEnvy76
They didn’t get enough for Happ last time at the trade deadline. I think I’d trade a need for a need.
Led Hoyer
They could just keep Happ then sign Conforto or Mancini and be much better off. There are plenty of defensive catching options on the market still.
Mystery13
Jays need pitching also, not sure why this article failed to mention that
Jaysfan1981
If the Jays need pitching, then that’s true of every MLB team
As constructed they actually have an enviable rotation and perhaps a top 10 pen.
Could it be better, of course. But it good enough right now and likely not getting better till the trade deadline
Mystery13
They most definitely do not have an enviable rotation. As of right now they have either Kikuchi or White starting every fifth day. That’s absolutely not good enough for a team that wants to win the AL east. Not to mention you have no idea what Berrios we get this year.
What kind of stupid reply was this anyway
Jaysfan1981
With that said, not many teams have their #5 slot locked down. Maybe the Astros but that’s probably it.
Kikuchi in the 5 spot means he’s doing better than last year, he won’t get a start unless he’s lights out in spring.
Im thinking Pearson probably gets his chance in the 5 spot, or another trade is coming.
White needs a good AAA showing before he’s relied on again.
Also have Ryu coming back in August.
There’s also 2 kids that Did pretty well in AAA last year, aren’t breaking any top prospect lists but our #5 spot is less of a worry than the #4 spot and Barrios NEEDING a bounce back
Jaysfan1981
And what do you mean “what kind of stupid reply is this”
Im not gonna get all froggy and challenge you. But common brother, you wouldn’t talk that way to me or anyone here in a bar. Don’t get your panties twisted because someone didn’t agree with you, get on their knees and praise you.
Just to reiterate, THE JAYS HAVE A PRETTY STRONG ROTATION AND A PRETTY GOOD PEN. ITS NOT TOPPING ANY LIST BUT ITS CERTAINLY BETTER THAN MOST.
Mystery13
So you think it’s smart to get to spring to find out if the jays have a fifth starter. Cool. Lay off the dope
Mystery13
Thanks for screaming and proving they don’t have an enviable rotation, by your own admission. You should take a break for a bit
Jaysfan1981
You seem so full of yourself. I wonder why you aren’t a GM in MLB
SCREAMING is sometimes used against dullards who have no concept of reality outside their basement
But go ahead, pat yourself on the back…. you got meeeeeeeeee!!!!
How will I sleep tonight without my dope!!
And to honestly answer your question
Yes, I do feel comfortable right now knowing March is 3 months away, trades can still be made AND even if nothing happens. They’ll figure it out.
Jaysfan1981
Lol. Not sure how you read that as an admission to your point.
Maybe you need some of my dope!!
KamKid
They need a certain type of pitcher though. One that acts as major league depth waiting at AAA but could easily seize a rotation role when needed. Some people who know pitching well seem to think White has something to work with and could be a viable back of the rotation guy. He seemed to be that with the Dodgers. The problem is that he’s out of options so there’s not as much runway. He’ll be the swingman because he’s still a better option than anything else in AAA. what they need is a couple more Mitch Whites with options remaining. Ethan Small of the Brewers, Braxton Garrett of the Marlins types. Ideally though, a step up where there’s ceiling for more.
Awesom-O
Why would the cubs let contreras walk, then trade (yes, only 1 year, I know) gold glove/above avg hitting corner OF ian happ AND a prospect for Jansen? Contreras is bat first, Jansen kind of, but to a lesser extent. Contreras is supposedly not the best game caller/def metrics guy, Jansen is barely better, if at all. The details in the article says why the cubs shouldn’t, even without dissecting numbers. I say this not knowing enough about Jansen, admittedly. I don’t watch much of the jays. Could someone explain why in earth the cubs would even consider something like this? I don’t see it. He’s not even their best catcher, right?
TheGreatBaseballMind
Bowing to you wherever you are for this post. To me you nailed it beautifully, Awesom-O. Personally I do not think or believe the Cubs are considering Happ for Jansen.
Jaysfansince92
Jansen has 32 home runs in his last 600 PA and 26 in his laat 453. He is one of the best pitch blockers in the majors. He also racked up 2.9 war and +5 drs in only 72 games last year. His OPS was .855 last year and .788 the previous year. Both of those marks topped Happ. Jansen went to a pull happy approach late in 2021 that has really suited him and his stats have steadily increased ever since. If you prorated his PA last year to similar levels as the Catchers in the top spots for WAR only a few catchers topped him.
What it really comes down to though is whether or not he can stay healthy: if he can it would be a very solid deal for the Cubs(assuming they have someone to take Happ’s place in the outfield).
Led Hoyer
That’s the problem you have to prorate his plate appearances. Those 600 plate appearance occurred over 3 seasons. A big difference catching 45-50 games and playing 70 and catching 130. He was fantastic in 2022, the rest of his career has been pretty blah.
Jaysfansince92
He actually caught in 63 out of his 72 games last year. I will conceed he had a problem staying on the field though.
There is good explanation for why his hitting took a leap forward though. When he first came up he was focusing almost entirely on his defense and very little on his hitting and he was also trying to spray the ball to all fields and late in 2021 he went back to his approach from the minors of pulling the ball more and since then he’s been a completely different hitter (20 hr in 310 PA from Sept 01, 2021 to now).
Awesom-O
It’s a fair point. I was kind of looking for someone more familiar with Toronto to talk me into being okay with it. I suppose I can be comfortable with a Jansen trade, I just wouldn’t understand it if happ was part of it.
Dr2022
If any of them can hit the Astros, or hit at all, the Yankees should be interested. They have done nothing to upgrade their offense and they need hitting desperately.
Chisox378
The White Sox should ship Hendricks and a minor leaguer to Toronto for Kirk. Jiminez would have to play RF and Kirk DH and catch with Grandall.
iamandygibb
A bunch of money would need to go to Toronto too.
jensan
Kirk + Gurriel Jr. for Giolito + Jiminez +Crochet
or
Kirk + Espinal for Mccarthy + Mantiply + Ketel
Moreno + Espinal for Lopez
scottaz
JenSan
LMFAO
highheat
Marte (the starting 2B), McCarthy (guaranteed an MLB role), and Mantiply (best CP candidate)…..
Surely you’re joking.
Jaysfansince92
At first glance it seems nuts, but per BR Kirk 3.8 WAR Espinal 2.2 WAR vs. McCarthy 2.2 WAR Marte 2.2 WAR Mantiply 0.9 WAR. The Jays side of the package produced 6.0 WAR vs. 5.3 WAR for Arizona (with Arizona paying alot more in salary for the production they got).
Per BTV Marte has -1.8 million in Surplus Value, McCarthy has 29.5 million, and Mantiply has 6.8 million for a total of 34.5 million in surplus value
Per BTV Espinal has 11.8 million in Surplus Value and Kirk has 51.9 million for a total of 63.7 million in surplus value.
If Marte can rebound then that would obviously change the equation though. Given his previous production I can understand why you wouldnt want to make that deal.
highheat
The previous production of Marte isn’t even the primary concern; Hazen said he’s only moving one of the CFs if it fills holes on the roster, not creates them.
You’re suggesting the DBacks sell low on Marte and McCarthy to buy high on Kirk (who I don’t view as nearly worth that surplus with rule changes encouraging base stealing and the eventual introduction of automated balls/strikes).
Both teams have needs and wants, if a deal is ever going to happen it needs to be beneficial for both sides. This one was not that.
highheat
Thought I added, but bullpen was the biggest concern this offseason; we’re not getting rid of our best reliever without a replacement.
Jaysfansince92
I actually wasn’t suggesting it, just saying that it’s not as crazy as it sounds value wise. Personally I don’t think it is a great move for either team. Probably better deals out there for both teams.
clrrogers
As a Jays fan, I’d like to see a trade involving Moreno for Carroll. The Diamondbacks probably won’t trade Carroll though, so a deal involving Kirk for Varsho would be my next choice.
scottaz
Dbacks won’t trade ANY of their top 4 CF for any of the Jays catchers.
Dbacks might offer Dominic Fletcher or P@vin Smith for Kirk and a couple of high level prospects. Might, but probably not interested.
clrrogers
Saying the Diamondbacks won’t trade any of their top 4 CFers for any of the Blue Jays’ prospects is ridiculous. Gabriel Moreno is one of the top prospects in the game and is worth more than all of the DBacks CFers except Carroll. Kirk probably is too. He was the starting catcher for the AL in the All-Star Game and won the Silver Slugger award. You’re overestimating your players.
highheat
You’re forgetting rule changes to be implemented.
Kirk already has a weak pop time to 2B, how does that look when his pitcher has a limited number of pickoffs and the it’s a shorter distance between bases?
Any team acquiring Kirk would have him for four years, yes? Aren’t we supposed to have an automated strike zone implemented within the next couple of years? A lot of Kirk’s defensive value is tied up in his framing, so that just completely slashes all value out there.
He’s absolutely a great bat and a solid glove when he is back there, but he’s expected to be among the most impacted by new rule changes. From where I’m sitting, it looks like you’re overestimating how valuable the next four seasons of Kirk will be.
Only time will tell who’s right.
P.S. Varsho would pull more than Moreno, but I’ll concede that Moreno is more valuable than all of the other CFs than Carroll/Varsho
Jaysfansince92
As a Jays fan I agree with the last paragraph. Caroll is too much and they would need to add something to get Varsho. The other Dback CF have less value than either Moreno or Kirk.
Jaysfan1981
Just to clarify.
The distance between the bases is not shorter. The bases are not being extended in the baseline, they are simply being widened to give more surface area for players to touch the bag
If you measured the baseline from home to first, first to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd abd 3rd to home it’s still going to be 90 feet.
The excess at first at 3rd will not be in the feild, it’ll be outside the lines
highheat
You’re correct to say that the 90 feet between center points of the bases is still going to be a thing; however, bases are being increased from 15″ squares to 18″ squares.
That’s an increase of 1.5″ in every direction, shortening the actual distance needing to be closed by 3″ on a steal.
There probably won’t be a substantial benefit for guys with league average speed, but for the guys with elite speed? That shaves a fraction of a second off, which we all know to be enough to effect a result.
highheat
Meant to say same distance between center points, obviously it wasn’t 90 ft
Jaysfan1981
High heat, I don’t think you’re correct.
The explanation I read was the “extra” or “added” areas of the base will not lead to a shortening of the baseline. Even by inches.
How I understood was, the base at first will still begin at the baseline, the excess will be in foul territory.
Same with 3rd.
What I don’t understand is 2nd, unless they are keeping a standard base for 2nd, which wouldn’t be earth shattering as Home plate is also different than the other bases.
If they make it wider at 2nd it has to shorten the baseline (even by an inch in each side) but maybe if they are elongating it, stretching it further towards CF?
Im just repeating what I read ages ago when the news first came out, I think I even saw a clip of Manfred assuring everyone the 90 feet is still 90 feet, the bases will be offset to not change the distance blah blah blah
highheat
Manfred could tell me the sky was blue and I’d doubt it.
mlb.com/news/mlb-2023-rule-changes-pitch-timer-lar…
“This change will create a 4 1/2-inch reduction in the distance between first and second base and between second base and third, which encourages more stolen-base attempts.”
Guess it’s slightly more than 3″.
highheat
Worth noting, but there’s nothing specifically stated about the C throwing behind a runner (and fielders are fractionally closer to receive said throws), so there could be an emphasis on Cs that are proficient at doing exactly that.
Jaysfan1981
And this may be a “technicality” but I love science and match.
But let’s picture it this way, the baseline essentially starts at the corners of the plate and lead down to 1st and 3rd.
The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line.
The base is supposed to be lined up with the baseline, and i would assume the top right corner of the base (or bottom left corner depending on viewpoint) would be exactly 90 feet from the bottom left hand corner of the plate to create exactly 90 feet of distance.
Same applies to 3rd and home.
I would only assume the point of measurement for 2nd is also the top corner that lines up directly thru the mound and to the top of the roof on homeplate
So if you measure, point to point to point to point it would measure exactly 90 feet on each measurement.
Now, when you make the surface areas bigger, yes that can impact distance measurements of course. But thats why I think its imperative the shape of the bases aren’t increased equally, but more on the vertical scale than horizontal.
But yea, you’re also right in saying, even if everything I read was BS and anything I suggest is wrong, 3 inches only really impacts a small percentage of plays.
“bang bang” plays at any base do have inches separating them at times. But how often to really impact something meaningful like a game 7 9th inning sack fly after stealing 2 bags when you Walked on a boarder line pitch the Robo ump called in your favor lol
highheat
He said that 90 ft will still be 90 ft and meant it, but only HP-1B and 3B-HP lol
Jaysfan1981
Yea I’m totally wrong, nearly 4 inches for elite guys to work with plus only 2 pickoffs
I guess the new Meta strategy would be to never Pick off and just go home as fast as possible.
Throw in a new juiced ball! Offense is going up baby!!
scottaz
clrrogers
Better give us your 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th choices, because the first 4 don’t stand a ghost of a chance of happening.
iamandygibb
This is such a short-sighted piece. Not only have you dismissed the Pirates, but you forget that three teams could get involved. The Pirates have the perfect match for the Jays in Bryan Reynolds, who has requested a trade. The Jays could work something out to get him, or send a catcher to the White Sox, Padres or another club who could then send prospects to Pittsburgh.
tiredolddude
Aw, you’re suggesting the never-ending rebuild cycle in Pittsburgh continue like the oblivion express. Got it. Usually it’s Yankees fans that continue to pound the idea of poaching the Pirates. Can’t blame them, as they have been successful so many times in the past
But this is new territory
The Pirates just signed Hedges and Heinemann and have two stud prospects in the minors who are on the cusp, but let’s offer more catching prospects in yet another attempt to pry Reynolds.
Sheesh
scottaz
Jays fans…let’s get Ohtani plus several prospects for Kirk!
scottaz
Jays Fans…let’s get Mike Trout plus some high ranking prospects for Jansen!
scottaz
Jays fans…let’s get Hank Aaron, Babe Ruth and Willie Mays for Moreno!
.
We’ll give you Willy for him sure, but the Babe and the Hammer are gonna be a problem..
scottaz
Jays Fans…Just wanted to share a little humor with you, you’ve provided so much humor to us!
Jaysfansince92
Oh don’t worry you have already given us plenty of humour with your Pavin Smith>Kirk posts. Haven’t laughed that hard in a long time.
jdgoat
You literally suggested Pavin Smith for Kirk plus prospects lol
LFGMets (Metsin7)
Its pretty obvious they should trade Jansen. He just swings as hard as he can and hopes to make contact. His hitting won’t last. Kirk is obviously a special hitter, need to keep him. Moreno I haven’t seen much of so I can’t really comment on him
KamKid
Jansen is more than that offensively. He has a pretty good idea of what he wants to do at the plate. Good approach. It’s not the special bat to ball skills of Kirk, but the hard contact isn’t fluke. He knows what pitches he’s looking for to hit.
Dogs
Whit Merrifield & Gabriel Moreno
…..For…..
Gregory Soto & Eduardo Rodriguez
clrrogers
As a Jays fan, absolutely not.
BadCo
Moreno seems to be the obvious choice
Mystery Team
I’ll say it again, the Brewers won that trade easily. Maybe Murphy is better defensively than William Contreras but Contreras has a much better bat plus he’s much younger giving him time to work on his defense. The Brewers were the only team that got better and good for them for fleecing both the Braves and the A’s. There’s nothing worse than trading just to trade and it seems like that’s exactly what the Braves did. I can’t imagine them doing that just so the Mets wouldn’t trade for Murphy as that would be even dumber. This is the one move Atlanta has made over the last couple of years that’s suspect almost everything else they touched turned to gold.
Windowpane
Kirk is going to eat himself out of baseball. Only 24. What will he look like at 28? Wise GMs will stay away.
clrrogers
Maybe, but that’s also what some people said about Vladdy. Then he totally changed his workouts and eating habits.
rhymo
Have you said the same about David Ortiz? Prince Fielder? Pablo Sandoval? What about Bengie Molina? Aside from an unfortunate injury with Fielder all those larger than most players had long successful careers. No matter the size he is a professional athlete. Such a disrespectful comment
highheat
You realize that David Ortiz was fortunate that the Sox were willing to commit the DH spot to him; everybody else you listed did have drastic dropoffs.
-There were enough red flags for Fielder that the Tigers got an insurance policy on him (good thing they did)
-Sandoval actually DID drastically fall off in his age 28 season in Boston
-Molina was always a base clogger and and was more often than not closer to replacement level than league average
You can be upset as much as you like about it, but heavier set players do tend to have big drop offs in value quite suddenly.
Windowpane
So Kirk is now Ortiz, Fielder, Panda, and Molina good? He can afford to let himself go at age 24? I’ll take the under on his career longevity as long as he keeps his eating habits as is.
KamKid
Two teams in the article that I have questions about their classification are the Brewers and Astros.
Did the Brewers address their catching need with Contreras or did they address their need for offense? Caratini is good defensively still I think, but could the Brewers consider more upgrade there while Contreras develops the catching part? Jansen and Contreras would be kind of like the Jansen and Kirk tandem where there is offense coming from the position on any day and a backup catcher that hits enough to DH most days still frees up DH spot for others a few days a week. For the short term until Contreras’ glove catches up to his bat. Jansen for Mitchell and Small or something like that still interests me.
On the Astros, I feel like this site specifically thinks much less of Maldonado than the Astros do. Even when they traded for Vazquez, they used him as a backup to Maldonado who was playing with multiple injuries. I don’t really believe they are looking for an upgrade. Especially since they have both Alvarez and Brantley slated for most of the DH appearances. Dusty is back and Maldonado seems to be his guy given the comments he made last year around the trade deadline approach.
Todd Brody
Korey Lee hasn’t hit? You know he had 25 HRs in AAA this season, right?. And you know the Astros also have Yainer Diaz who also hit 25 HRs in 2022 and had a monster hitting year., right?
highheat
You do know that the PCL is a notoriously hitter friendly league that was even more hitter friendly this season, right? Lee’s 25 HR still left him with a AAA line that was below average (which generally doesn’t translate well to MLB).
He’s young and has tools, but the hit tool is a legitimate concern.
Windowpane
Astros stole Diaz from Cleveland for Straw.
Darthyen
Danny Jansen hasn’t been a good or even average pitch framer since 2019 so I would not blame the finger for that.
the guru
Tigers aren’t dumb enough to trade anyone for backup jansen…or kirk. Just not happening. Kirk is 5’6″ 280lbs, and Jansen had 1 outlier yr and is a backup profile. No one is officering them for these 2, thats why the bluejays have been trying to move them for 2 years.
BenBenBen
Steve really needs to understand that you can’t say just “Strong as the bat is, Kirk isn’t without limitations.”
It’s “AS strong as the bat is, Kirk isn’t without limitations.”
It’s also not “That last point on the Rays applies here, too,” it’s “That last point on the Rays applies here too,” because commas before too are always a waste.