The White Sox go into the offseason looking to bounce back from an average season. That registered as a major disappointment for a team that entered 2022 as favorites in the AL Central, leaving the front office to regroup in a renewed effort at competing for the division.
It doesn’t seem Chicago will have much leeway to make many free agent acquisitions. General manager Rick Hahn told reporters yesterday that trades are the likelier avenue to improving the roster (link via Daryl Van Schouwen of the Chicago Sun-Times). Hahn indicated the team would open 2023 with a player payroll similar to this year’s mark. Chicago opened the 2022 campaign with a payroll around $193MM, per Cot’s Baseball Contracts, but James Fegan of the Athletic reports the club is eyeing a figure more in the $180MM range to start next season.
There’s no indication $180MM represents a strict cap for the Sox front office, but anything in that range would limit Hahn and his staff in taking on many salaries of note. Chicago has around $139MM in guaranteed commitments on next year’s books, including option buyouts for AJ Pollock, Josh Harrison and Dallas Keuchel, according to Roster Resource. Arbitration-eligible players are projected by MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz for roughly $26MM in additional salaries, and pre-arbitration players rounding out the roster would cost around $10MM. Non-tendering Adam Engel would knock a couple million dollars off that figure, but the Sox still have roughly $173MM allocated to the roster before looking outside the organization.
Much of that money is committed to key players coming off down years. Yasmani Grandal, Yoán Moncada and Lance Lynn each have salaries in the $18MM range. Grandal and Moncada had rough 2022 campaigns and would be impossible to move without eating a notable chunk of salary. The Sox could probably find a taker for Lynn, but dealing him would only weaken a starting rotation that’s already one of the team’s biggest question marks.
Dylan Cease is locked in at the top of the staff, with Lynn and Lucas Giolito following him. Giolito is projected for a $10.8MM salary in his final year of arbitration. He’s coming off one of the worst seasons of his career, but there’s no chance the Sox would non-tender him and a trade seems like an unlikely sell-low. Hahn expressed confidence in the righty’s ability to bounce back, pointing to his work ethic and relationship with pitching coach Ethan Katz (via Van Schouwen). Michael Kopech figures to have the fourth rotation spot locked down, but Chicago will have to replace free agent Johnny Cueto. Hahn suggested Davis Martin could compete for the fifth spot but admitted that filling it externally would be ideal. The GM suggested Reynaldo López and Jimmy Lambert — each of whom has started in the past — were locked into the bullpen at this point.
The relief corps should be the backbone of the club, with Liam Hendriks, Kendall Graveman, Joe Kelly and López taking high-leverage innings. Chicago has invested heavily in that area in recent offseasons, but another splash there looks unlikely given the payroll limitations and needs elsewhere on the roster.
On the position player side, second base and right field have been persistent questions. Chicago bought out Harrison, leaving them with some combination of Leury García, Lenyn Sosa and Danny Mendick as the favorites for second base playing time. Jean Segura is the top option in a weak free agent class there, while players like Cavan Biggio and Kevin Newman could be attainable via trade.
Right field was unexpectedly vacated by Pollock declining his player option yesterday. Andrew Vaughn has played there but is headed to his natural first base position with José Abreu highly likely to depart in free agency. Engel, Gavin Sheets and Mark Payton are part of a lackluster collection of internal options. Hahn name-checked Oscar Colás, coming off a .306/.364/.563 showing in Double-A, as a candidate for the right field job, but the 24-year-old has just seven games of MLB experience.
Trade possibilities in right field include Teoscar Hernández, Anthony Santander, Max Kepler and Jake McCarthy. Given Hahn’s comments, dipping into that market seems likelier than a run at Andrew Benintendi, Mitch Haniger or Joc Pederson, although platoon options like Wil Myers, Robbie Grossman and Tyler Naquin would be attainable in free agency for a few million dollars.
How do they have payroll constraints they haven’t made the the real playoffs once? If the gm has to blow all the owners money just to almost make the playoffs it’s a colossal failure. This is why non playoff teams don’t need to sign free agents to multi year deals. If your gm can’t draft and develop a good team they shouldn’t be given the keys to the free agent chest.
They had a great farm. Team has a lot of drafted and trade players. Most teams will have some holes that need plugged. They just missed on some moves, missed some moves all together and had some guys fall off. Whoever is responsible needs to go. Rondon was a real blunder.
Rondon?!
Yes! White Sox fans are screaming for the return of SS/3B José Rondón and his .216/.274/.353 career slash!
No, I believe poster was commenting on Sox losing Rodon blunder!
The white Sox have made some pretty bad trades, and some pretty bad signing to couple along with it… the result is a team with a good young core, with a front office who has handcuffed themselves for the primes of those players careers with the afterformentioned bad signings and trades… same thing happend on the north side of Chicago? 2015-2020 was there window of contention because of it?
The cubs made the playoffs in 5 of those 6 season and won a WS, Doesn’t really seem like it’s the same.
Exactly and in addition to the postseason run and ring, it also included 3 straight NLCS, their rebuild was obviously a huge success. On the southside… not even sort of. They essentially have to once again rebuild their rebuild because nothing has come of it. Now they have one of the worst farms in baseball AND no money to spend. Yikes.
We’ll have to wait and see what the next few years bring on the southside before making a comparison. The White Sox did reach the postseason in 2020 and 2021 during their first two chances since the conclusion of their rebuild in 2019. They also won the AL Central in 2021. They used up their non-playoff mulligan with the 2022 disaster.
As for the Cubs, they peaked at the beginning of their window with a 97-win campaign and NLCS appearance in 2015 followed by their 103-win championship season in 2016. Despite more NL Central titles and an extremely talented young core, it was a shame they couldn’t make deeper postseason runs aside from another NLCS appearance in 2017.
Minor Leaguer Jose Rodriguez for 2B, Minor Leaguer Oscar Colas for RF, Yoan Moncada moved to LF and Burger at 3B. Fixes 4 spots with no money spent.
Oscar Colas with his left-handed power, strong arm and decent defense in RF is the only upgrade with any degree of certainty for 2023.
Jose Rodriguez has typically been a slow starter at each minor league level. He played exclusively at AA Birmingham last season and would seemingly need some solid results at AAA before a promotion to the White Sox is in order. Lenyn Sosa would make more sense for 2023 as an internal candidate. He produced big numbers at AA and AAA last season and also appeared in 11 games with the White Sox.
The last thing Yoan Moncada needs is another position change. He is a solid defensive 3B after struggling at 2B earlier in his White Sox career. His concentration needs to focus on hitting and not learning the outfield where he’s never played professionally. Let’s pray that the new hitting coach, likely Mike Tosar from the Royals, can get Moncada back to the numbers he produced in 2019.
Jake Burger has been a great inspirational story rebounding from the serious injuries he suffered to begin his professional career. He could provide power numbers the White Sox need but his defense has always been a question mark even before his multiple surgeries. The White Sox need defensive improvement in 2023 as much as a power boost.
Bottom line: Colas is the only suggestion here who gives the White Sox a solid shot at improving offense and defense at a position of weakness from 2022. The White Sox best option for improvement at 2B will likely come via a trade unless JR allows Rick Hahn to spend dollars on FA Jean Segura. There are more potential mid-priced free agent LF’s to choose from who could provide the solid lefty bat and better glove needed by opening day. Switching Moncada to LF is not the answer. If the organization feels his hitting woes can’t be fixed or he’s a clubhouse pariah they should trade him this offseason. If those aren’t concerns then he should be given one more chance to find his stroke in 2023 while continuing to provide good defense at the hot corner.
Way too logical for Hahn. This team is short of expectations. It won’t get better in spite of getting Grifol.
Nonono, firesale please!
They owe money to Dallas Kuechel and he’s been released? No way to get that money back or another player? Adding the hefty contract of AJ Pollock didn’t help and he’s a subpar player IMO? To many bad moves and signings
The Sox are off the hook for Dallas Kuechel’s 2023 option since he did hit the 167 innings in 2022 for it to kick in. The main issues with the White Sox is 2023 is Giolito’s last year before he hits free agency where maybe he be moved for some prospects during the off season or see if he has a year like 2019 rather than these past two seasons to seeing if a team in need of a short stop with taking on Anderson’s last two years before hitting the market.
“They owe money to Dallas Kuechel and he’s been released?:
Hippyripper;
Posters on here like to make fun of Scott Boras when one of his dozens of clients holds out and doesn’t get a contract one year.
Kuechel was one of the few.
Notice how all the people that took pot shots at Boras and Kuechel never realized that subsequently Kuechel got everything he was hoping for…..and more.
You mean 42 innings and it’s the buyout
There was no buy out for Keuchel. It was a clause in his contract to reach a certain amount of innings in both 2021 and 2022 for his 2023 option to kick in. Keuchel did not reach that limit.
Sad situation for fans.
Not a lot of tradable pieces
There is if they rebuild. They can empty their weak farm and get what they need. Don’t need elite players, just some solid ones.
But they just came off of a major rebuild. They don’t draw many fans as it is. They’re not going to rebuild again – this is their window to win. Mainly, they need good health. And another rebound by Giolito. Pitching rules.
Definitely not rebuilding this winter. They better put in some good work or it’s going to end up a really tiny window. Harrison as a starting 2b move wasn’t isn’t going to be enough.
Liam Hendricks FOR Chris Flexen and Penn Murfee.
Who says no?
Hendricks’ contract would not be a wanted pickup for Seattle at this stage, with Hendricks owed a large AAV and Seattle dawning it’s prime on spending, it might not be the way they want to spend.
Me. Hendriks is one of the best closers in the game. He just didn’t have as many opportunities in 2022 because the Sox were so bad he couldn’t get in as many games . The Sox are doing just what I said they’d do on an earlier post:go for the FA scraps instead of one of the upper echelon FA. Engel is a good OF. He just can’t hit. That leaves Robert in center and no capable corner OF. I’m sure they’ll cover that with utility players like Garcia. Sheets is OK in rf and has earned his place in the lineup because he’s a left handed hitter. Overall, they’ll be the same mess in 2023 that they were in 2022.
Hendriks has one of the most unusual team options I have seen.
His salary for 2024 is $15 million and his buyout is $15 million, but if the option is declined the buyout becomes a personal services contract paid at $1.5 million annually starting in 2024.
Colas has zero games experience at ML level.
Right, seven games at AAA.
It’s like the White Sox go out of their way to avoid paying for talent. They’ll waste $200M on a sh#t roster just to cover the fact they don’t want quality free agent talent. Sox fans should not trust anything these people say or do because they’re full of it. Just stay away from this mess.
They have paid, just not for talent. Williams and Hahn both know the payroll constraints, but still sign or trade for the likes of Hendricks, Grandal, and Kimbrel. Every big contract means small contracts elsewhere. When the farm is thin, that leaves holes. No 2B, no RF, and little depth in the SP. This is the same situation they were in when they traded Sale, Quintana, and Eaton. Same people in charge, same plan, same result.
Only Cease is working for them as planned. They will need bounce back and good health from the rest of the guys they acquired for their core. I can’t see Hahn creating any miracles with trades and free agent acquisitions.
You’re welcome (Cubs fan bemoaning that awful trade that got you Cease).
@DonnyElementary
Yes. Rick Hahn signing an elite free agent would be a miracle only Jerry Reinsdorf can bestow on him. Hahn could potentially hit a home run in an offseason trade. He’s had a few since becoming the White Sox GM, even winning the coveted ‘Hot Stove Executive of the Year’ award twice. lol
Cueto should be resigned, and go get Carlos back! This team has to be the most frustrating team in MLB! Maybe they can trade Boz Skaggs for a toronto catcher too. This team was fun 2 years ago. Now… not so much. Hopefully Grafol can lite a fire under this group!
Next stop, Chi-town, Lido put the money down, let it roll
Moncada is not movable, neither is Grandal, but sometimes you just have to cut your losses, like with Grandal. As for Moncada, the guy had two five hit games this past season which tells me that he has the tools,its just that the Sox need the right guy to get the most out of him, same with Robert, and Jimenez.. Trade Anderson to some team that thinks his ceiling is higher and get something back and promote Montgomery at SS. Colas should be playing an OF spot as well.
Montgomery hit .146 in AA. That’s where he will start next year. Trading Anderson for a stopgap SS and another need could work.
Heck I would give them Renfroe, Wong and Small for Moncado.
They absolutely have to get rid of grandal. if they can’t, don’t let him anywhere near home plate either defensively or offensively. I’d rather see Zavala – who actually throws the ball when a runner is stealing – with Perez his back up. That should suit the FO who claim to be so fiscally challenged.
Defensively Grandal is not good! Offensively Grandal is not a good left-handed batter but as a right-handed batter he hit over .300.
You know these stats are readily available online right? Grandal hit .257 vs. LHP.
Sheets I think would like to be in Baltimore. Sox could use the arm of Matos on the left side of infield. Not a big trade but viable as Matos improves. Seattle has Suarez, Crawford, and France. Nice contracts and good fits for Sox budget issues. Vaughn, Montgomery, Gonzales, Sheets, Engel and TA could be utilized in trades with them.
Multi player deal may be only way out of the mess. Seattle I doubt would give up Rodriquez but it would be nice if it can work out. Sox need durable everyday game players. Cease, Lynn and whoever will work well with Sox pen.
Lynn might work out if he loses some weight and doesn’t hurt himself again. He still has enough good press that he might bring back something of value. He is an old 36-37, overweight, and with questionable knees. Trade him. He is in last year anyway. Get something before he expires.
I read the title of this article as:
Things Are Only Going To Get Worse On The Southside of Chicago.
Michael Kopech is the best 4th rotation arm in baseball. That dude is filthy. I know there’s injury concerns there, but he would be on my list to try to pry away from Chicago.
Kopech stays but u can have Giolito!!
I don’t think Joe Kelly should ever be considered a backbone contributor to anyone’s pitching staff.
I would attempt to attach Grandal to Eloy Jimenez in a trade. That’s probably their best bet in clearing some salary. Eloy is a huge injury risk anyway. Grandal and Eloy to the Cardinals could be a good fit – as long as the White Sox didn’t ask for too much in return. Maybe like Yepez or Montgomery
Contract is so negative they might as well keep him. Actual contending teams have tax concerns and don’t want the dead weight. Difficult to find a beneficial trade.
I think the White Sox end up signing one of the left handed free agent starting pitchers, add a left handed OF contact bat and not too much else. I know the article states Hahn saying they will prioritize trading over signing free agents but I don’t see it.
White Sox fans desire the return of Carlos Rodon. The front office wouldn’t even QO him last offseason and Jerry Reinsdorf would nix any contract offer anyway. A pair of free agent southpaws who might fit their budget are former fan favorite Jose Quintana and 2022 Cub starter Drew Smyly.
The premier free agent lefty contact bat would be Andrew Benintendi. The 2021 AL Gold Glove LF would be a huge defensive upgrade over Eloy Jimenez with the latter likely transitioning to a full time DH role. It’s problematic whether the front office could fit Benintendi into their budget without trading salary elsewhere.
A long time favorite trade target of mine for the White Sox has been Alex Verdugo who is coming off of a down year with the Red Sox. He has more defensive flexibility than Benintendi with his cannon arm. Ironically, both Verdugo and Benintendi saw regression in Boston after they each decided to bulk up during offseason workouts. Benintendi reversed his routine with the Royals two years ago while Verdugo figures to do likewise this offseason.
I agree that Rodon and Benintendi would be great signings or trading for Verdugo would be great addition but I do not think the White Sox will commit the money to sign either player or part with what Boston would want. Signing Quintana or Smyly along with David Peralta and they will be pretty much done.
Any free agent pitcher with a low walk ratio will do. Unfortunately Sox defense is so poor that you need pitchers who can strike people out. To get the strikeouts though with some hitters you have to risk walking them in close games. If healthy Eovaldi would be a consideration, low walks.
Mendick who had zero errors before he got hurt was a huge loss. Him and Andrus if signed with Gonzales , Sosa, and Garcia backing them up gives the Sox a better crew of fielders. Moncada doesn’t play enough to measure his season long ability, move him while you can get something for him. TA too !
Seattle has done it with Suarez and Crawford, you don’t need .300 hitters at every position.
The White Sox can’t spend money and have one of the worst farms in the league coupled with aging, over the hill contracts, the worst place to be in pro sports. They can’t afford Rodon, they can’t even afford to keep the face of their franchise Abreu. The rebuild was a failure and things are only getting worse.
as I said in an earlier post, Chicago is the place where good careers go to die.
@Bryzzo2016
Total exaggeration as usual. The White Sox don’t have any “aging, over the hill contracts” aside from potentially the last two years of Yasmani Grandals’ dea which expires after this season. One of the benefits (lol) of JR’s cheapness is they don’t get stuck with truly “aging” contracts like the division rival Tigers have had.
The other ‘questionable’ contract/extensions JR signed off on are for their young core. There is still plenty of time for those contracts to become ‘profitable’ bargains ala the Chris Sale, Jose Quintana and Adam Eaton deals that Rick Hahn orchestrated prior to his rebuild.
To say the rebuild was a failure with a primarily young core still in place after just 3 years is premature. Hahn needs to do a better job reinforcing his core starting this offseason. He also needs to shuffle the roster with more balance, especially from a defensive perspective. You can’t be stocked with top talent who are best suited to play 1B, DH or pose as corner OF’s.
As a Cubs fan you should be able to identify and perhaps even commiserate (lol) with White Sox fans over their current dilemma. Theo Epstein did something similar with the Cubs roster by prioritizing hitting while neglecting the development of pitching. His overpayment for quality pitching with prospect trades and some questionable FA signings shortened the Cubs contention window while also eliminating the chance at another championship.
While I’d naturally rather have Rodon than Benintendi, the latter is my highest realistic hope for the Sox this offseason. Not only much better defense, but would help to balance that lineup and a solid offensive upgrade above Engel. No doubt gonna be cheaper than Rodon, too.
They should probably consider a rebuild of some kind. They have too many holes to fill and no money. I’m sure they’ll try to patch up the holes in the ship and see if they do well in 2023. I could see them being some of the biggest deadline dealers next season if things aren’t going well. They have a lot of controllable pieces they could move at the deadline next year and really restock the farm.
Starting in 2017 the Sox started on a five year rebuild. with Rick Renteria as their manager they made it to the PO in 2020. instead of staying with Renteria, Reinsdorf went over Hahn’s head and hired LaRussa who, in less than two seasons, tore the team down, erasing all the work Renteria put together. Now, instead of remaining a contender they are back where they were in 2017, in a rebuild. Thanks Jerry and Tony.
Absolutely not. The White Sox have essentially the same core of mostly young players that was expected to walk away with the AL Central this past season. They were also projected as one of the top 3 or 4 teams to represent the league in the World Series.
It would be foolish to tear down this group that was essentially the core of their most recent rebuild which concluded with a 2020 playoff appearance under Rick Renteria. They won the Al Central in 2021 under new manager Tony La Russa before disaster struck this past season. This is not an exclusive veteran team with the bulk of its players past their prime.
The 2023 team needs better managing, health, defense and the return of their 2019-2021 slugging offense. This can all be accomplished with their new manager and his coaching staff, some roster reloading and shuffling along with a better offseason conditioning program and in-season luck when it comes to injuries. Most of the White Sox young core comes with team control well beyond 2023. The farm system is rebounding after all their recent prospect graduations. The front office needs to be smarter in making trades and in allocating dollars to free agents than they were the past couple of years.
The people who had the Sox among the top 3 or 4 teams in MLB (or just the AL for that matter) were either delusional, or complete idiots. They were only a couple games ahead of the wild card teams in 2021 and never would have even made the playoffs in 2021 if they were in a different division without the weakest strength of schedule in MLB, undoubtedly. Worst defense in the league, no ability to hit RHP since and including 2020, and no rightfielder on the roster. This team is done, the window is closed, they blew it by doing nothing the past two offseasons when they should have been in on Springer and Semien. The top 5 guys in the Astros lineup all had WARs higher than every position player on the Sox roster. The Sox are not projected to land anybody among the top 50 free agents better than Quintana according to this site. They might make a run at the central next year if they get really lucky and just about everything went right (and Cleveland had injuries), but a repeat of a playoff face plant would be assured even if they did. I’m sorry but the optimists have proved dead wrong again and again. Their World Series chances the next couple years (and probably after that) are zero, because they refuse to add any good players without giving up their own. The Phillies and Padres show what it takes from an ownership, if their aspirations to win are more than cheap talk. The Phillies have added Harper, Wheeler, and Schwarber, all of whom have bigger contracts than anybody in Sox history. The Sox are dead until they have a new owner. The Cubs could easily be the best baseball team in Chicago in 12-24 months or sooner. Which is only true because of how low the Sox set the bar.
I disagree for now, but if they bomb in 2023 again, then I’ll say they need to reset. They have some wiggle room now that Keuchel and almost certainly Abreu are gone and Grandal will be gone after next year. I give them about a 10% chance of spending that money wisely (I’m in a generous mood because it’s Friday), but with a new coach, guys not playing out of position, hopefully better health, and maybe a couple decent signings, they can still vie for the division or at least a WC spot next year. Hope dies hard with me.
Andrew Vaughn and Giolito are the only two realistic pieces they can trade. They’d be selling low on Gio. Sounds like Vaughn is moving back to 1B. Weird article
@Jerry Reinsdork
You don’t have money to give us better ballplayers?
We don’t have money to go to games or buy merchandise.
@vulgaris
You don’t come to many games or buy enough merchandise. There is not enough revenue to support the payroll you want for better ballplayers.
Yours Truly,
Jerry
You’ve made plenty of money, clown.
There’s not enough revenue because you suck as a sports franchise owner. You’ve been riding off of Jordan’s achievements and legacy for decades. The reality is you don’t care about winning or the fans.
Jerry told his heirs that, when he dies, sell the Sox and keep the bulls. That says a lot about what he thinks of the Sox. Owners don’t make their money fr merchandise. they make it from corporate suites.
@chisoxcity Yeah, Jerry’s net worth went up 200M from the start of 2021 to 2022. His net worth is like 2 billion, and he will die in a few years most likely. Even though he can’t take it with him, he STILL won’t spend it. The Phillies are not a fantastic team but at least they tried, and got to the WS. Harper, Wheeler, and Schwarber all got bigger contracts than any in Sox history. Hence why the Phillies went deep in October and the Sox sat at home, and will never win a playoff series until they have new ownership. It’s not hard to figure out *why* the Sox don’t have success. They did absolutely nothing to improve the team during the prime years of their “window” the past two offseasons. They are the baseball equivalent of the Bears, just an incredibly poorly run team. They would not have even been in the playoffs in 2021 if they were in the AL East because they would have lost more games with a tougher schedule, and were only a couple games ahead of the wild card teams. They are one of the most over rated and over hyped teams in sport history.
Augusto I simply disagree, when players this year are declining qualifying offers of $20 mil for one year there is something wrong with the greed that runs through the game. The agents have no risk, no injuries, and no humility towards the fans who have to pay to see a game. Fantasy GM’s who read the media hype don’t get what we have lost in terms of a stable society. It is just as ugly for a player to turn down $20 mil for one year then claim they love the fan. The owners with the 2 billion have to support the entire team including its inept management of simply media hyped pay check collectors. It will all end in the future, fans can’t and won’t support it. The only way out is to have 6 months contracts till the all star break then reshuffle the schedule with different players on different teams, it might be fun to just to see how they do it.
Dbacks need a 3b and closer. White Sox need salary relief, a left handed hitting CF, and a starting pitcher.
Dbacks trade Madison Bumgarner, Jake McCarthy CF and Emanuel Rivera 3b for Yoan Moncada and Liam Hendriks. Dbacks take on $75M in salary. White Sox take Bumgarner’s $37M salary, so save $38M, gets replacement 3b and a star, long term young CF.
They aren’t going to right-handed hitting Robert out of cf, but they do need left handed hitters. The deal you propose sounds good from a Dbacks perspective, not so much from a wsox perspective.
News flash: The White Sox most talented all-around player is 25-year old CF Luis Robert who signed a long term contract extension prior to his 2020 MLB debut. His deal comes with two team options and player control through 2027.
The White Sox have another star Cuban in lefty power hitting Oscar Colas ready to debut this coming season, perhaps as soon as opening day with a good spring training per GM Rick Hahn. Colas is penciled in to be the White Sox starting RF. He can also handle CF with Robert also adept in RF.
The White Sox will be in the market for another corner OF this offseason, one who will likely hit left-handed and be their primary LF. Free agent Andrew Benintendi would be an ideal fit as a full time starter in LF.
Lefty power hitting FA Joc Pederson would offer more defensive flexibility with his ability to play all three OF spots. Pederson has less favorable splits versus LHP than Benintendi and would likely be a strong side platoon option in LF when a RHP starts. Adam Engel could be a solid platoon partner with Pederson assuming he is tendered a contract later this month. Engel provides Gold Glove caliber defense across the OF. His offense regressed last season like most of his teammates. Prior to 2022 Engel had solid splits vs LHP with some pop. He also possesses plus-plus speed and has generally been an efficient base stealer during his 6-year White Sox career.
“White Sox likely to prioritize being cheap over winning.”
There. I fixed the headline for you.
They’re like 10th in payroll, so it’s not even being cheap. They’ve just given out a ton of bad contracts, which many pointed out at the time they were given. However, white sox fans chose to ignore that and seemed to think that money was no concern, despite all evidence to the contrary.
If your front office gives you what the sox have done for $193m, I’d reign in their spending too.
People always focus on total roster spending, and ignore how the money is being spent. You want to understand the sport, start thinking critically instead of adhering to conventional thinking and generic analysis.
You’re so lost. Keeping Abreu around doesn’t help the roster. Sorry, it just doesn’t. Andrew Vaughn needs to be in the lineup everyday. The only way to do that is put him at 1B. Conversely, Eloy needs to be kept in the lineup everyday and healthy. The only way to do that is to DH him. Where does that leave Abreu. It’s simply time to move on.
The Sox should find a trade partner for Moncada and Giolito. And don’t give me this nonsense about Moncada not having trade value. He’s young and talented—a change of scenery might help him rekindle some focus and love for the game. In return, the Sox should be able to get some role players or prospects who can help them later. Ditto for Giolito, who’s new pitching delivery has turned him into a human bp machine for multiple seasons now. He’s not getting the money he’s going to be looking for from the Sox next season anyway. Time to move on. They also need to deal the all the bench riding DH types away and get some baseball players in here who can do more than pinch hit and kick baseballs around the outfield like a little leaguer.
Who would trade quality minor leaguers for the people on the White Sox? You would trade a young Moncada for what? An old nearly washed up pitcher who would pair up with our washed up, obese Lynn?
No one will give us anything of value for said players.
It was not too long ago that fans were celebrating on social media because the Sox were really aggressive in adding payroll.. both extending their guys and adding significant free agents additions. They were going to rule the Central and be legitimate WS contenders for years.
And now the team is cheap.
What “significant” free agents?
I’ve read in several sources that the interim manager had to beg the White Sox players to play hard. I find that fascinating that the players wouldn’t play hard on their own. Maybe the new manager will have better luck?
That’s true. after a game in which Miguel Cairo thought the sox played particularly badly, he held a clubhouse meeting where he told the players “You’re either in or your out.” the next game they played uncharacteristically hard, showed a pulse and won the game. That’s how long that lasted, one game.
I think Benintendi / Quintana could fit within the Chisox budget. Second base has been a weak spot, but is it really any team’s priority? Put the best internal defensive option there. Colas may not be ready, but looks like the future right fielder. A Sheets / low cost right handing hitting platoon can fill the time gap. The Sox will contend in 2023 with decent health and renewed energy the new manager will bring.
I am more concerned about the future. The Astros won with key position player development, ( most recently SS / RF ) and cheap starting pitching. I don’t see that coming for the White Sox yet, And the payroll commitments and controlled budget create serious flexibility limitations
The WS development has not been great, but comparing them to the Astros really isn’t fair either. Very few teams have been able to develop pitchers like they have.
Agree. But really wasn’t trying to compare. There are different templates for success. I guess my point is that you can’t spend everywhere. Internal development is always the key. Perhaps they will hit ( I hope) on players like Vera and the 2022 pitching draft, but they really need good future controllable starting pitching like all teams do I guess.
Yeah, you need to have a core of established cheap players in place before spending in free agency to fill the holes unless you can run a $300m payroll. Seems like lots of teams get the core of players, but then don’t wait to see which ones will actually establish themselves before spending.
Sometimes it works out and you can get hot and go on a run like the Phillies this year, but it’s hard to build a consistently good team that way without a good amount of luck.
@flamingbagofpoop
It’s true that “very few teams have been able to develop pitchers like they (the Astros) have”. Unfortunately for the White Sox and the rest of the AL Central, the Guardians are one of them.
They didn’t have that problem with Don Cooper, Sox always had plenty of arms to trade away before they even pitched one inning for the Sox. They rarely had rash of injuries with Herm Schneider with players in the field.
Pretty sure Elias recently said he doesn’t see any point I’m trading Santander.
Here’s hoping, the Orioles need to add offense, not subtract it.
King, The media hyped potential of Moncada and Tim Anderson should lure you in to giving us Santander and maybe Mateo, or Urias for the short term. No one else has fallen under their spell why not the Orioles, they are usually good at it. Though they are getting better, I hope they do, they are in a tough division.
If the Orioles weren’t already facing a bit of an infield logjam with Henderson, Mateo, Urias, and Vavra as non-1B IFs already on the MLB roster and Westburg, Ortiz, and Norby all ready or near-ready at AAA, I might actually have some interest in Moncada as a bounce back candidate if the Sox ate some salary, but not for Santander and not under the present circumstances where we probably need to trade away an IF or two rather than add any more.
If Rick Hahn and ownership believe in this team, the team that they have built over the last decade, then you can expect them to sign Jose Abreu and extend Lucas Giolito.
That would probably be enough to start the season but it would be nice to add a starter, Johnny Cueto or one of the other free agents.
The Chisox should tear down the team and the FO. They can deal in couples to refill one of the weakest system in baseball eg:
Cease + Grandal; Kopech + Moncada; Lynn + Anderson; Hendriks + Graveman; Eloy + …,etc.
Then when they save +90mil, replenished the system, go out there and get a couple of free agents starters-bounce back candidates on the sheep and field some of the near mlb ready talent got in return of the trades.
Now play:
Vaughn/Sheets dh/1b
Robert, Colás, Payton, Engel outfield
Romy, Mendick, Burger, Leury infield
Sevy/Perez C
Martin, Crochett, whomever SP
López, Lambert, Bummer, Foster, Ruiz RP
That could be painfull to watch to the Southsiders but maybe; with the right guidance and merchandising, they put a faster and exiting team on the field(Guardians) with future and better pieces to come.
3 years window to contention.
bart i.;
Name a winning team in MLB that didn’t develop a good number of players on its roster from their farm system. As well as rehab some players they picked up in trade or waiver wire / DFA’s.
I’m not aware of a contending team that built their roster by trading for name players and overpaying for free agents.
What’s, “a good number”? The 2022 Phillies would fit that. They Developed Nola, Suarez, Hoskins, and Bohm – but 4 of their top 5 position players and 3 of their top 5 pitchers by fwar are trade/FA adds.
It’s not common though.
1984wasntamanual;
“As well as rehab some players they picked up in trade or waiver wire / DFA’s.”
I’ve been following the Phillies and watching them a lot the past few years.
Dominguez, Stott, Vierling, Maton, Hall, and Guthrie came through their farm system. Marsh was acquired in trade for O’Hoppe who came from their farm system. Alvarado and Sosa were acquired in trades and reworked. Half of their bullpen was brought in and reworked.
I could go on.
Who exactly have the Sox coaches made better? Jimenez can hit. Was that their doing? Cease is exceptional, but what about the rest of their pitchers? Did any come out of nowhere as happened with Phillies players? Moncada and Robert seem to be regressing. Anderson needs to be moved. The main point with the Sox today…..
Name 3 players on that roster that seems like that have nice amount of upside coming. Then look at the Guardians roster and players they have in the high minors and ask the same question.
@Samuel
“Name 3 players on that roster (White Sox) that seems like that have nice amount of upside coming.”
Assuming you are talking strictly starting position players I can name 4 White Sox, three of whom are on their MLB roster and one who likely will be on opening day or soon thereafter: 1B Andrew Vaughn, CF Luis Robert, RF Oscar Colas and DH Eloy Jimenez. One might also make a case for Yoan Moncada who plays a stellar 3B but needs to return to his 2019 offensive approach and numbers. If he finds his stroke with the new White Sox batting coach you are talking about an All-Star player at the hot corner.
There’s ample upside on the pitching side as well. Aside from new ace Dylan Cease, the White Sox have at least a couple others with Michael Kopech and Garrett Crochet.
I’m not arguing that. I just said they need to get rid of the several 2 pounds golden chain bumps they have on the roster. To accomplish that, they will have to trade the little quality left and start from scratch.
Nowhere in my comment I suggested hiring top nor middle tier free agents, just bounce back candidates that can be get on the sheep to; at least, eat some innings.
The Phillies signed Harper, Realmuto, Wheeler, Schwarber and Castellanos and traded for Syndergaard.
Attaching a large, undesirable contract like Grandal’s would massively torpedo the return for Cease, who would fetch the largest haul of prospect talent of the pieces they could deal. They would be fools to do that.
Oh my god! You really hate the wsox!
No I don’t. Big sad fan.
Music to my ears:) This division is a real crapshoot. Seems like Cleveland can keep the division until Jose isn’t an mvp caliber player anymore
Their biggest k’s are some of their worst players…unmovable. They have no money for difference maker FAs. Their farm system is bottom 1/4. They have zero quality depth. They place zero value on defense. A roster designed to be a 16″ softball team appears to have lost its power. Looks like they plan to tinker around the margins, pray for good health and invent the flux capacitor to regain production from long ago. That is just speaking to next season, 2 years, 5 years from now looks bleak…look at the development pipeline WOOF. No vision or creativity. Simply a FO that is in way over its head.
Well said.
Here is my shake up to the CWS and a trade I think you can make happen:
To the Cardinals (Anderson and Giolito and the $23.5MM in salary)
To the CWS (Gorman, Liberatore, Burleson and DeJong and his $9M salary)
Reason the Cards do it: Anderson cost controlled so they don’t have to get in a bidding war for the other FA SS. Giolito close friend of Flaherty and they need another starting pitcher who with some corrections can be a #2.
Reason the CWS does it: $14M savings and they can shed DeJong after the season if he doesn’t live up to his contract. They get a 2B of the future in Gorman and a LH starter in Liberatore and Burleson LH hitting corner OFer.
CWS saves money that could be used on smaller pieces like bullpen or 5th starter. DeJong is glove first and can compete with Sosa and Sanchez for the SS or just be a utility guy. Rotation spots Cease, Lynn, Kopech, Liberatore and some form of Crochet, Davis, Lambert or FA veteran. OF Burleson, Sheets, Robert, Colas and Engel or a veteran FA.
Sadly, I doubt the Cards would bite for that.
What. A. Joke.
Donny, you are forgetting Mendick and maybe Andrus. Move TA before it is too late. He’s going to want big dollars after next season, he isn’t worth the risk. Dump alot and get Bogaerts or Correa if you wanna play fantasy GM. Pitching in AA can be tougher than AAA. Some players are demoted from the big club there.
Minor Leaguer Jose Rodriguez for 2B, Minor Leaguer Oscar Colas for RF, Yoan Moncada moved to LF and Burger at 3B. Fixes 4 spots with no money spent.
With players turning down hefty qualifying offers for one year, you wonder if the game is worth the hassle anymore. It will all end soon, its too pricey and risky to manage. Deferred contracts for life are the only solutions for a limited few who might be on track for the Hall of Fame. Everyone else is expendable. Free agency is counterproductive to union contracts and concerns for the low end of playing in MLB. It is self serving only for the agents.