The Reds and Pirates agreed to an intra-divisional trade that sends infielder Kevin Newman to Cincinnati for reliever Dauri Moreta. Both teams have announced the deal.
Newman changes organizations for the first time in his career. Pittsburgh selected him with the 19th overall pick in the 2015 draft, and he reached the majors roughly three years later. He struggled in 31 games down the stretch as a rookie, but he had a solid sophomore showing. The University of Arizona product hit .308/.353/.446 across 531 plate appearances in 2019, securing the primary shortstop job in the process.
He held the role for the next couple seasons, but his offensive productivity wilted. Newman had well below-average numbers in both 2020-21, combining to hit just .226/.268/.302 through 726 plate appearances. Even with strong defensive metrics in 2021, his overall production hovered right around replacement level. The rebuilding Bucs continued to give him opportunities, however, and he righted the ship enough this year they managed to find a trade partner.
The 29-year-old posted a .274/.316/.372 mark over 309 plate appearances this past season. He lost over two months to a left groin strain mid-year, but his rate production was his best since 2019. The righty hitter’s overall offensive profile hasn’t much changed throughout his career. Newman makes a ton of contact, putting the ball in play early in counts to suppress both his strikeout and walk totals. He has very little power, with just 20 career home runs — 12 of which came during a 2019 season that saw arguably the liveliest ball in league history. He’s reliant on a quality batting average on balls in play to prop up his numbers but looks like a decent bottom-0f-the-lineup option when enough singles drop in.
Newman’s calling card is his ability to play up the middle. He’s logged over 2500 big league innings at shortstop, typically rating at or a bit below league average. He drew quality marks in 2021, but for his career, he’s been an estimated nine runs below average according to Defensive Runs Saved and six runs below par in the estimation of Statcast. Public metrics have rated him slightly below average in just under 800 career frames at second base as well.
The presence of Oneil Cruz in Pittsburgh displaced Newman at shortstop. The Bucs could’ve relied upon him at second base, but they may prefer to take a longer look at 23-year-old Rodolfo Castro with an eye towards eventually turning things to a prospect like Nick Gonzales or Liover Peguero.
Cincinnati has less clarity at shortstop with José Barrero thus far failing to seize the position. The Reds dealt Kyle Farmer to the Twins this evening and could use a stable option to hold down the position until the arrival of top prospect Elly De La Cruz, who turns 21 in January and finished this year in Double-A. Newman is arbitration-eligible for the second time this winter and projected by MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz for a $2.8MM salary; he’s controllable through 2024.
Moreta, 26, received his first big league call late in 2021. The 6’2″ righty pitched in four games down the stretch but got some decent run this past season. The Reds called upon Moreta 35 times in relief, and he worked to a 5.40 ERA through 38 1/3 innings. Moreta punched out a decent 24.4% of opponents against an average 8.1% walk rate, but he was done in by major home run issues. He surrendered 10 longballs (an average of 2.35 per nine innings), thanks in large part to a very low 32.7% ground-ball rate.
That extreme fly-ball propensity made him a rough fit for Cincinnati’s hitter-friendly home environment, but he could have a better go in the more spacious PNC Park. Moreta has a fastball that sits just under 96 MPH on average, and he missed bats on a solid 11% of his offerings this year. With a more favorable home park, it’s possible he translates those decent strikeout and walk numbers into viable middle innings work. He won’t reach arbitration until at least the end of the 2024 campaign, and he can still be optioned to the minor leagues in each of the next two seasons. He’s a big league ready middle relief depth option.
Ken Rosenthal and Rob Biertempfel of the Athletic first reported the Reds were acquiring Newman. Biertempfel was first to report Cincinnati would receive Moreta in return.
Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.
WHYYYY
For Pirates they have a lot of cheaper higher upside more long term options for 2b and Cruz at ss.
For Reds because he is cheap. He is a strong defender at ss with the glaring weakness of lacking range. Great defender at 2b. Bat shown life last year as the 2019 guy who can hit those gap shots.
Yes, and I’m still prepared for them to bring in another VanMeter type despite all of that.
Newman wasn’t traded so the Bucs to be better, he was traded so Nutting could save $1 million and change from his profit margins
I wouldn’t be surprised if they did bring back Van Meter
He’s cheap and Nutting loves to count the money that the gullible fans pay to see home games
Farmer replaced with Newman sounds like bad Seinfeld episode
You need to stop right there. Cruz and SS shouldn’t be placed together. He needs to be a DH or RF. He’s an error machine at SS. Look at his career numbers defensively and tell me he needs to be at SS when Pirates have better defensive players ready to yield the position. Open those blinders because you run around here like you know it all. Cruz IS NOT a SS and should never be considered to man that position now or in the future.
@PiratesFan1981 My superior knowledge is a blessing but also a curse. I am sorry for the pain it causes you.
Last I heard Cruz is indeed their SS so that’s why I mentioned him. Tell the Pirates front office how you feel about him. I didn’t give a evaluation on him and if I did it would go much deeper than “Look at his career numbers defensively”.
When a ground ball is hit to your shortstop and you literally hold your breath until the out is recorded, you may be playing the wrong guy at the position. Do not be fooled by Cruz range due to his size. Do not be fooled by his strong inaccurate arm. I want an OUT MAKING MACHINE on routine plays at SS. Pirates gave that up when they gave Newman away.
Pirates haven’t fully evaluated Cruz and tried varies of positions to get him to the majors. They don’t see him as a SS. The intelligence with you and your “scouting” reports are so far from the truth. Bae, Gonzales, Tucker, and even Hayes moving from 3B to SS are better options than Oneil Cruz playing SS regularly. Pirates will spot him here and there at SS. But don’t see him a regular at the position
Although I agree with your thinking, your conclusion is erroneous, at least for the immediate future
Trading Newman signals the idea that the job is Cruz’s. They’ve invested a great deal of marketing money in Hayes, Bednar and Cruz, and where the latter is concerned, love talking about his homers, exit velocities and his strong arm. It sells tickets to the casual fan that when you think about it, is their target audience. They abandoned their knowledgeable fan base long ago in favor of fireworks, pierogjes, PNC Park, the parrot and a great deal of hype about young players who will get them to .500, at best
Cruz is bright enough to know that they can’t afford a malcontent who is also their poster boy. He’s balked at position changes, with no recourse
@PiratesFan1981 You aren’t able to comprehend what you read. I didn’t give a scouting report on Cruz. Didn’t say he was better than all those names. And his career starts by position are easy to look up. Looks like they had and still do consider him a ss so stop with your disinformation.
It seems your passing disinformation. Cruz since reaching the majors DOES NOT play everyday at SS. Just stop. You have no clue about how the Pirates are evaluating every player. There has been plenty of reports from within the organization that Cruz is not the SS of the future and he is reluctantly objecting to positional changes. Instead of blowing hot air and shaming others who do pay attention to the team and players.
I dunno. Cherington said just yesterday the job is Cruz’s to lose. The trade made it abundantly clear. Granted, he may lose it after one season but given the marketing that’s gone into him, they’re not making a change anytime soon
I don’t know if you watched the games after his call-up, but playing 8 out of every 10 games would designate him as the “every day shortstop” to most fans.
As for these reports that you claim are coming from within the organization, please share. Would love to read them from an organization that apparently does little in the area of player development
1 inning in the outfield. 678 at ss. Seems like so far they have considered him a ss. Piratesfan is giving Samuel and asfanuk a run for their money.
When you say long term, does that mean three years and then they trade the player?
Mets-No,what it means is five or six years and then they trade the player.
It enables the small market teams to at least occasionally think that they compete before the large market teams snatch their best players and also to get something real for their investments.
He takes the place of Kyle Farmer. Mostly moving deck chairs on the Titanic, although Farmer is the considerably better player.
More like moving cat turds in a litter box.
India and Steer have lots of potential. Noelvi Marte could be even better by 2024. Give them all five years to be traded.
Hey Newman!!!
Cruz, Bae, Gonzalez, Castro all play middle infield and Newman is a career money sucker.
except that those 3 throws often times like erratic girls
Newman by far has a better defense
Stop with the misogynistic remarks
Some girls like Jennie Finch throw pretty dang well!
if woman could throw accurately, they’d be playing infield for the Bucs as Nutting would sign anyone at the major league minimum
Finally. A guy like Newman who has zero fiture on the Pirates team past a year to year deal should be traded. No knock on Newman he is a good hitter and defender just has no place on a team who has younger more controllable players with higher upside at SS and 2B in Bae, Ceiz, Castro, and Gonzalez. After that Chandler to some extent too.
Diego Marcano Park still need looks as well.
Excuse me but did you just say that Newman was a good hitter after reading the post saying several times that he was not?
Don’t forget Peguero for SS. Ths is all TBD. It’s possible that Cruz can improve his throwing, and that other OFs emerge from Mitchell, Suwinski, etc. If Cruz doesn’t improve then you tell him, not ask him, to move to RF where his arm and speed are an asset, not DH. They may need OFs because I’m not sold on any of the OF prospects yet. Time will tell, but give Cruz a year to prove himself.
Considering Cruz has been playing shortstop his entire life, it’s highly unlikely his throwing skills will improve
It’s amazing how many prospects come up do good, then the league catches up and they are never able to adjust? Blows my mind
whyyy!!
theres way better options..hell if your gonna suck again… just play prospects. Reds need new ownership and TO SH%T CAN THE FRONT OFFICE!
I thought the reds were one of the worst teams. But they really improved their development. I believe I liked their deadline trade returns. They should be able to use Newman and trade him at deadline if any prospects are ready.
Relax, some of you guys just don’t understand.
My favorite extreme budget middle infield stop gap.
Wow we are really cooking now.
Someone was going to play this man at SS and realize that he’s quite good.
I’d hoped he’d get with a contender.
Hope you’re right.
Samuel’s usual awful player evaluation. He’s maintained for months that Kevin Newman is better than Dansby Swanson.
Newman was a gold glove nominated SS just in 2021?? Only 3 get nominated each year.
Ya, I’d say he’s atleast above average defensively.
mlb.com/news/gold-glove-2021-finalists
Helloooooo Newman!
Hello Jerry.
Reds gonna have to shed some payroll after this blockbuster
take it easy, rangers….haven we reds fans been punished enough?
Rangers29;
Yuking it up?
Your team signed 2 SS’s for half a billion dollars in commitments, neither of whom can carry this mans glove. They have to hit a lot of HR’s to make up for their lack of range and the balls – including what should be DP’s – get through for hits.
Gonna have to sign a lot of pitchers to make up for the extra pitches they have to throw each game.
I’m sorry, I couldn’t hear you over the smell of poverty.
You are fortunate not to be a fan of a small market team like more than half of the major leagues. But that doesn’t excuse your attitude toward the rest of us.
Doesn’t excuse my attitude? For starters, you’re not my dad. Secondly, I’m joking. Chill.
This one belongs to the Reds;
Well, give credit where credit is due…..
If the Rangers give Rodon a $250m contract, I’m sure then can finish above the A’s in the NL West again this year.
*AL West
Damn, that’s classless AF, lol smell of poverty?
I actually like this comment. It’s honest. It’s the MLB equivalent of…
“Did you see MY trophy? No, I didn’t win anything. My parents bought me this trophy. Isn’t it nice? Too bad your parents can afford to buy you a nice trophy like mine bought for me. I guess I’m a winnner and you are a loser.”
This is basically every big market MLB fan, knowing that the game is rigged but desperately wanting to brag about it anyway.
The mlb leagues are in a sad state.
It’s kind of ironic to use the “smell of poverty” line about an owner who ranks in the top third of the richest and in relationship to a team that it is in the top half of the most profitable.
Yeah, poverty. Nutting is laughing all the way to the bank.
At least we have pierogi races
don’t forget the Fireworks nights, Dude!
Did the Rangers learn nothing from Arod? Will the Yankees have to bail out again?
Milwaukee is considered a small market city yet they have an affordable payroll close to $100 million annually
Putting a competitive team on the field every year will increase attendance and allow for higher payroll
Between 2012 and 2015 Pittsburgh put competitive teams on the field and enjoyed record setting attendance at PNC Park
Once Nutting ordered Huntington to dump salaries and the good players, attendance took a dump and suffered significantly
Almost like someone getting 400 million from their dad and boasting because they are a multi millionaire.
There’s a reason the NFL and NBA are more popular now. An even playing field for the most part.
Every major league sports has some form of a salary cap except the greedy baseball players
As a Pirates fan, I agree with trading him because we have players to take his spot but I think he was a solid player. Two seasons ago he had a bad year but was always stellar defensively and was a decent enough hitter the other years. Came through for some big hits and always played where needed without complaint.
Also as a buccos fan, KN was a good, serviceable player. Solid at 2B and SS and gave us a descent bat for the most part. Definitely a career utility and backup option that will be still playing 4-5 years from now because of it. Thanks Kevin
Interesting to see what the Pirates got in return. Would’ve made sense to trade for Aquino here and actually give him a chance in RF.
Aquino was non tendered today, so you can go get him. But he’s not worth the effort.
I’m sure this deal didn’t come together today. My point was if they talked about it, they should’ve consummated it a few days prior to the non-tender.
In return they got a 26 year old pitcher who’s salary is 1/3 of Newman’s and if recent history is a guide, will be released before the start of the season
As a Pirates fan, I was dreading that they would hold on to Newman and hope he would get on a hot streak like he did a couple spring trainings ago and try to squeeze out some additional value. While waiting for that though, at least one of several potential prospects would be stuck on the bench or in AAA.
Newman would not have been a core player in a couple years when the Pirates finally hope to contend/play meaningful baseball. See what Castro, Castillo, Gonzales, Peguria, Marcano, et al have now and not waste 300 at bats on a guy we at best flip at the deadline or at worst release in June.
Would’ve made sense to trade for a guy who got dfa? I don’t think so.
Good move, better options
Ji Hwan Bae looks like a real deal for Pittsburgh with Cruz
Oneil Cruz is quite possibly the worst SS I’ve ever seen play in MLB.
Worse than Ruben Tejeda?
Cruz seems to have the Pirates by the short hairs. On one hand, he’s apparently balked at the idea of playing some other position. But on the other, the team has put so much hype behind him that they can’t afford a malcontent poster child.
Interesting move here. They’ve essentially told Cruz it’s his job now…and there’s no one with experience that acts as competition. Only time will tell if this was a good idea
tiredolddude19;
That situation has the possibility to completely undermine what already looks like a shaky rebuild.
Samuel, you look around MLB and the young talent that comes up. It’s beyond the idea of big market vs small market but rather, the basics of drafting and player development
Look at what comes through the Braves or Dodgers systems. The Astros and certainly now, the Guardians and Orioles
Then reflect on this past season
This first wave of Pirates doesn’t seem to compare, nor does it seem to learn
You get what you pay for even in player development
Nutting’s payroll includes those in development and managerial positions
Not unexpected but why in the division? Especially the Reds.
Afraid Newman is going to be a pirate killer for years?
Yeah, a low power middle infielder traded to a fellow basement dweller is really gonna sting.
He’s a pesky hitter. Power is not the end all be all of baseball.
I’d rather have a guy who puts bat on ball than strike out 30-40% of the time trying to hit it out of the park constantly. Most times when you try to, you fail. Prolific home run hitters will tell you that.
He was one of the few Pirate hitters who knew how to get on base. So many bat .200 and strikeout a ton.
28 other teams were not willing to trade something for him?
I can’t figure out why fans worry about this? Why do you worry? If they didn’t get Newman they would have got a comparable player. Teams only worry about trading in division when it’s a fan favorite star player. They shouldn’t worry about that either. It will sell a few extra tickets when that player comes to town and if you are doing things write you put a big dent into their future teams.
I’m not worried but not for the reasons you might think
Nutting’s too cheap to put a competitive team on the field, by mid season, Reynolds will be traded for more prospects and the gullible fans will be told it’s time for another rebuild
The fans won’t be told anything by this management group. They should have or should trade Reynolds. Can’t let him walk for nothing.
You live in fantasyland, DreamGM
Reynolds has one year left on his current contract, if he’s not resigned or extended and they aren’t better than last year by the end of July
He’ll be traded
And the Bucs management is always in perpetual rebuilding mode
Paul-Dream is in fantasyland but only because of his pen name.
The Pirates will maintain their mode of operation of trading players who have started to decline a year or two before becoming free agents.Reynolds has one or two years left,or maybe three if they are a very good team and go for it.They acquired a number of fine young players in that manner.
Small market teams have little choice.
Their mode of operation was to try to compete every year,but they got terrible half way through 2019 and had to completely rebuild.
I did not want them to trade Newman but it does make sense and hopefully this reliever is a very good one.BC has a good feel for young players and the pitching coaches did a good job last year.
What he needs to look at is his coaching and management teams in a serious light very soon or he will eventually go the same way as NH.
Aww. TheMan muted me. Welcome to irrelevance. My heel persona and willingness to play devil’s advocate stimulate many conversations. Your loss. The 5 people who liked his comment should as well. Reynolds isn’t eligible to become a free agent until 2026. That contract was just to avoid a arbitration hearing. Don’t have to trade him by July. Not that I am against it but they will have him for 2024 and 2025 if they choose.
I just hope the Reds didn’t give up anything good. Hopefully Nick Senzel lol.
PLEASE !
Cut Moose now…..
They won’t get out from under that contract.
Nice signing for once. Stopgap until the kids are ready.
Kyle Farmer and Kevin Newman, huh, I’m sure I mixed those two up before. Probably thought they were the same person.
Reds be like Hello Newman.
Newman!
Newman is a solid average ss with a flair for dramatic clutch hits.
An excellent place holder or backup.
Bae, Castro are next in line and possibly Marcano to compete for the starting role and backup positions.
The middle infielder position is crowded which is why they are also miscast as corner outfielders… would love to see another trade for a legit corner.
Good pickup for the Reds
This will never happen but if I were the Reds, a team who can’t develop an outfielder for anything, I would take all that loads of extra payroll space they don’t use and sign Conforto, Bellinger and Benintendi to be my new outfield to pair with all the infield talent on its way and I think it would improve the team tremendously next year. Sell Bellinger on the idea of rediscovering his swing and his offense in GABP where we have seen quite a few journeymen have career years at the plate. Offer Conforto a hitter friendly park to make his return after a year away and Benintendi, the hometown hero could become the player they use to attract fans back to the park. One thing with Reds fans is they tend to make average players fan favorites so Benintendi being a hometown kid with talent could easily become the new team favorite and change the fan bases fortunes and rooting interest. They’re going to lose a lot of games next year anyway so this would make them a lot more interesting team to watch,
A nice thought, isn’t it? Probably why it won’t happen.
In the past year the Reds have traded or fail to re-sign Castellanos, Gray, Miley, Barnhart, Winker, Suarez, Castillo and Mahle. They have yet to reinvest a nickel back into the team.
and now Farmer.
This is why I said it is worse than the Dick Wagner years. At least that was just a gross misjudging of talent.
Win win trade really but I will give it to the Pirates. They had zero need for Newman so saved some money and picked up a ton of years for a reliever who could be something outside of Cincinnati.
That’s optimistic. I give them credit though for saving money and face by non non-tendering him.
It’s realistic. If you dig into his numbers you will see they got something to work with. Watch him pitch you will some more. I’m not optimistic about the pirates getting it out of him. They need to step up their development.
what the Pirates got is a pitcher they have financial control over for the next 4 years
Newman was expected to get $3.8 million in arbitration while this pitcher’s salary is at the ML minimum
There was no spot and they weren’t going to pay him. He went to the reds because no one else wanted him. They saved money and got a crap reliever in return.
Once the Pirates made that trade with the Rays I figured Newman was gone since someone had to pay for the new 1B man’s salary.
Was surprised that he wasn’t nontendered.
They probably should have waited out the 1B market. I know they can afford Choi but maybe Voit would have been better? Or they could have gotten Choi for a cheaper deal.
The Bucs only want position players who strike out 100+ times and walk less than 40 times in a season
Last year they had 7 players with 100+ strikeouts
Choi will fit right in
Not sure what Newman adds for the Reds that they didn’t already have in Matt Reynolds. Someone to cover the infield until their upcoming wave of prospects is ready.
Newman can make contact but he simply can’t hit the ball hard enough, average EV, barrel rate and hard hit rate are all near the bottom. He doesn’t have to be a power hitter but if you can’t hit the ball consistently hard enough to hit it through the infield your contact rate doesn’t help much as he gets his bat knocked out of his hands and he is a 250 hitter who hits 3 bombs a year. That’s sub replacement/backup level
Newman!
Newman!!!
Cruz likely wont stay at short, but the pirates have plenty of other young players coming up for the middle infield. sadly Newman was clogging it up.
Return if fair.
A few years ago, the Seinfeld IF duo of Kramer and Newman seemed to have a nice future with the Pirates (even without puffy shirts). But I get that Pittsburgh sees other/better/cheaper options than keeping Newman throughout arbitration. He might benefit from the change of home parks as well, by the way.
Gruß,
BSHH
I think the Pirates farm system provides more hype than they actually do talent. Kramer never looked like a major leaguer and Newman, while a decent glove, was wildly inconsistent at the plate.
They have a bunch of middle infielders here who have shown various degrees of flashes, led by Cruz.
I watched most of the games in what was an excruciatingly painful year. I wasn’t overly impressed by anyone but with all the ballyhoo here, jeez, let’s do it again in ‘23
But you said it with the idea of “cheaper options”
This is a difficult team to watch, sure, but it’s even more difficult when front office wants to convince you that you really didn’t see what you thought you did over 162 games.
Bis dann
Tired- You need to look at it this way.They lost 111 equivalent games in 2020,101 in 2021,and 100 this year.
This is real progress.
At this rate they will have a winning record in the year 2525,if baseball is still alive.
But seriously,they will have a winning record within the next five years and hopefully we will see it.
I am an optimist,and am hoping for at least 75 wins this year.
If I was Nutting,and they were not on that track by June 1 I would tell BC it is either Shelton or you.
I wonder which one he would pick.
I think this will end up being a very good deal for the Reds. In 2022 Newman was the Pirates leading hitter in batting average. Moving to a more hitter friendly park (and a better line-up) should help that,
yesterday Ben Cherington said that the shortstop position was Cruz’ to lose and that they might still try and sign or trade for another infielder for increased offense
I’ve seen their versions of free agent infielders with offensive skills and I’m not very impressed.
Yes and again, trading Newman said as much. Where Cruz is concerned, I think you’re going to see a lot of errors, a lot of ugly at bats, and the Pirates PR people pushing the exit velocity stats of his home runs to the casual fans.
Maybe Keller’s progress will mean a few more wins. Maybe last year was attributable to growing pains. Still hard to see these guys winning more than 70 or 72 games
Why don’t you root for another team
because Dude and I have been Pirates fans collectively for nearly a century
You don’t change your favorite team just because the owner is a cheapskate
Hey DUDE I have followed the pirates since 1965….and people our age don’t use the word DUDE…..yea the owner is not the greatest….but you called the players greedy…they are….but all athletes are greedy. Millionaires and billionaires are all greedy. The normal fan is left to websites, like this to voice their frustrations…what good does it do???? Just makes for a miserable time. My advice is to play fantasy sports….I’m guessing you as a kid could remember stratomatic baseball….I still play….your never too young to remember your early years
Buuba, people our age who worked with kids for over three decades certainly *do* use the word “dude” and use it with a wink towards humor
Agree with your thought about the owner not being the greatest. In fact, the responsibility to the city that built his playground, the ideas of civic pride and athletic competition take a back seat to continuous profit. Perhaps you’ve read about how well he has done with his franchise despite opting to run a team on a shoestring budget
And you agreed with my point about all athletes in this era. Greed. Arrogance. Cavalier mentalities. That’s not all athletes, of course, but the money has alienated a great many fans. I enjoy the sport. I root for the players who have my hometown emblazoned across their chests. And that’s the end of it
You must think that myself and a number of disenchanted fans here are sitting at the keyboard with a stiff drink in one hand and a bottle of Xanax in the other. On the contrary, I enjoy the debate, hit the thumbs-up button for well thought out points I hadn’t thought of or known, and find it all very therapeutic
I played the game, coached and managed teams. To me, more than any other sport baseball breeds debate, from particular game critiques to the skills and abilities of players, managers and yes, front office and owners
And in remembering my younger years, I do remember the same debates going on in the bleachers at Forbes Field, at the barber shop, at the diner.
Remembering my younger years and the Pirates being a proud franchise is one of the reasons I post concerns that ownership has not only muddied the reputation of the franchise, but destroyed a fan base
I’m not sorry for my feelings although, if you think there is anger or real world frustration at work here, you’d be mistaken. It’s a game, after all
Maybe you need to mute me and others who see the glass as half-empty
Dude didn’t call the players greedy, I did
And we’re permitted to give ourselves any name we want, as long as it doesn’t affect the site’s rules
And while you’re correct that all sports players are greedy, this is MLB not NFL, NHL and NBA
( by the way I play MVP 2005 Baseball on my old PS2 where the Bucs always win)
Nope I don’t mute people…to me muting someone is a form of self censorship. There is nothing no one can do to get nutting out of baseball. The only way is for MLB to prove he is tanking and that he has his own interests in hand . Then they can force him out. I was at Forbes field hundreds of times. I was a member of the knot hole club…sitting in Right field and watching the GREAT ONE. Memories are full. It’s been disheartening the last 3o years. BUT before things get better…baseball has to right the ship. Today it’s all about greed by upper echelon teams and greedy athletes. MONEY has ruined the sport…causing pitchers to be FIVE inning wonders. Analytics to me has ruined baseball. Managers who can’t manage a little league team.
My beloved sport and pirates, I believe can and will righten the ship.
I’ll give till 2024 for them to be competitive. If not, then it will be a long time till things get better.
I for one like the word “Dude” as it is a nickname that I bestowed on a fellow tenth grader who had just moved to my school..It was alliterative to his last name.We still call him that although at this point he may prefer his formal real first name.
There are negative posters here and critical posters and only positive posters here and shades of allThe Pirates are certainly ripe for criticism but I for one do think that they are trying to get better.Rodney King said it best- Can’t we all just get along.
For whatever you think of Nutting it is the current framework of baseball where greed prevails that he has to work within.Time has proven that the teams with the best scouting and coaching develop the best players.I do not fault the players for getting as much money as long as they can as long as they earn it.It seems to me that the Pirates are trying to work within that framework.Spending money to some extent is unnecessary with a bad team although I think that the Pirates have fallen too far for three straight 100 loss seasons.The floor has been too low.
Tired just wrote a fine post that I appreciate.Let’s all hope that this long and tedious Pirate fan nightmare ends soon so that we can all enjoy it.
I think for the most part, those who post on the Pirates threads *do* get along. Everything Buuba just wrote as a reply resonated with me—agree 100%.
Very similar backgrounds and experiences
He is just willing to wait another year to make a pronouncement. I can understand that
Where Nutting is concerned, I am sure there are those who would look at him as a genius if only looking at profit margins. You both make note of working within the platform MLB has provided him and within that framework, he’s a winner in the board room
I always wonder one thing where Nutting is concerned, and it’s something I’ve never seen asked of him. During that three year “glory era” of Cutch and company, when the Pirates looked to be all-in with bringing in free agents for stretch runs…was there some meeting of the minds afterward that said, “The window is closed. It was a fun run. Time to blow it all up”.
Because to me at least, there seemed to be a real paradigm shift at the upper levels.
I don’t know that the Pirates will ever re-capture that excitement.
TIred-One thing that I always remember about Nutting foremost is that he is a businessman.He is not really a fan.That being said he is a human first and would rather be associated with a winning team than a losing one.
The window for small market teams is generally around three years to compete at or near the highest level.
That is how long the Pirates competed,and I think it frustrating for everyone that they faced Baumgarner and Arrieta in back to back years in the wild card games.
In 2016 they did not “tear it down” but followed the same rationale as they always did,There were reasons for making every trade or non tender.One could be critical of Nutting to do that but for the most part NH was good at making trades by that time and they did get reasonably good returns.This to some extent allowed them to compete to try to get into the playoffs for several years although their “glory” years were clearly done.
In my mind mind what happened to the Pirates in 2016-2018 was a natural regression and the reason why they “went for it” with the Archer trade,
I do not think that they anticipated the total dropoff in the second half of 2019.
To me this is a perfectly clear reasoning regarding your question as this stuff is not rocket science and may very well be as good of an answer as you will ever be able to get.
Very good summation of that time period and with that in mind, the current Guardians and Orioles are going to be an interesting to watch
I say this not only with regards to your three year (and I know that means in general) description but also where I tend to see a real contrast in scouting and developing young players
We’ve disagreed about the Archer deal before and I recognize and salute your points as being completely in line with what Huntington was trying to do.
All major league owners are in fact business people. They’re certainly in business to make money, just so happens most owners are also looking for playoff caliber players.
Unfortunately, Nutting isn’t
He bought out Kevin McClatchey for roughly $97 million, the franchise is now worth, according to Forbes, $1.2 billion.
When McClatchey originally purchased the franchise from the city investors, he was majority owner, Nutting bought about 20% at the time of the original purchase.
Reds signed Newman did they? The franchise that gave Norm Charlton his big break. They’re just one Adam Frazier and Joey Bart transaction bender from being must see TV, Thursdays this fall on NBC.
I give Newman a great deal of admiration for his flowery comments about his time in Pittsburgh as per local media over the weekend. He called it an incredible ride and for that alone, I wish him well as he goes to the Reds
Newman was never a power hitting, consistent .300 hitter but he was pretty solid with the glove. Nonetheless, his was a position which the Pirates always seemed to view as open where the idea of starter was concerned. Prolonged injuries aided that view, of course, but for him to call it an incredible run…playing for one of the worst teams in MLB….well, bless his heart