Matt Brash’s debut in the majors resulted in a 4.44 ERA over 50 2/3 innings, with pronounced splits as a starter (7.65 ERA) and as a reliever (2.35), since returning from a minor league demotion in a relief role worked wonders for Brash’s effectiveness. Unsurprisingly, “Brash has generated a ton of [trade] interest after his rookie season,” Ryan Divish of The Seattle Times writes, “but it would take a lot” for the Mariners to consider moving the 24-year-old. If anything, the M’s have faith that Brash could still be part of a rotation, given the club’s plan to stretch him out for Spring Training.
Brash’s 14.9% walk rate was the third-highest of any pitcher in baseball with at least 50 innings pitched in 2022, and he also allowed a lot of hard contact. On the plus side, the hard-throwing Brash had an above-average 27.9% strikeout rate, and elite curveball spin to go along with excellent whiff and barrel rates. There’s a lot to like about a young pitcher who still has only 179 1/3 combined innings on his record at the Major and minor league levels, and rival teams are naturally seeing if the win-now Mariners might be open to moving a younger pitcher for a more established MLB-level player. Nothing can truly be ruled out given the aggressiveness of Seattle GM Jerry Dipoto, yet it’s probably likelier that one of Marco Gonzales or Chris Flexen are dealt from the Mariners’ pitching mix.
More pitching-related items from around baseball….
- Back on November 14, The Athletic’s Will Sammon reported that the Mets weren’t one of the many teams who had checked in with free agent righty Seth Lugo. Almost two weeks later, the two sides still haven’t been in touch, and “the Mets do not view Lugo as a starter,” Mike Puma of the New York Post reports. Lugo is reportedly open to signing as either a starter or as a reliever, and at least some of the other suitors have some interest in Lugo’s potential as a rotation piece. Speculatively, this could translate to at least an incentive-heavy contract for Lugo, with more bonus money available if he ends up making more starts than relief appearances. It could be that the Mets simply don’t value Lugo at this price, and are ready to look elsewhere in their search for bullpen help.
- The Red Sox pursued left-hander Brooks Raley in free agency last year, and offered Raley a two-year deal worth roughly $8MM, according to The Boston Globe’s Alex Speier. Raley ended up signing a two-year, $10MM contract with the Rays, and then had a strong season for Boston’s division rival (Raley’s year included a 0.00 ERA over six innings against the Sox). Between missing out on Raley and the general lack of quality in Boston’s 2022 bullpen, Speier writes that the Red Sox “came to regret not pursuing relief help more aggressively,” and opines whether or not the team might put more emphasis on relievers this winter. Chaim Bloom hasn’t spent much on relief pitching in his first three offseasons as the Red Sox chief baseball officer, and thus far this winter, Speier notes that the Sox haven’t yet paid much attention to the relief market, with a larger (and understandable) focus on starting pitching and re-signing Xander Bogaerts.
redsox for_life
Cora and Bloom will be fired before the all star game
Redsoxx_62
Idk, they might wait until after the season. But yeah if we miss the playoffs I think they’re dunzo. Hopefully Varitek gets a chance to be the next manager
Fever Pitch Guy
Soxx – Prior to the start of next season, I would love for somebody to ask John Henry if he expects to compete in 2023 or if he sees it as another “building year”.
If he sees it as another “building year” then that means Cora and Bloom are safe going into 2024.
deweybelongsinthehall
Cora must have team dirt to have been so welcomed back. He’s baseball’s John Gotti. Teflon man. Also, I’m quite sure Bloom explained his long term plan before taking the job. Add in the lost 2020 COVID season and the surprise run in 21 and I think Bloom is safe until after 24.
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – Every MLB executive says they will build up the farm system and turn the franchise into a perennial contender, nothing new there.
That “lost” 2020 season got Bloom Whitlock and Mayer. It was the perfect year to tank because attendance was a non-factor.
We don’t know how long Bloom’s contract is, as it was never revealed. Because 4-year deals are typical, and there’s been no mention of an extension, I think another season of no playoffs and down revenue will end up costing Bloom his job. Henry has not shown patience in the past with guys who actually won a championship, so I don’t foresee him being more patient with a guy who hasn’t won squat.
kmk1986
Calm down judge Roy bean really the John gotti of baseball lil over dramatic
redsox for_life
He made very bad trade: Benitendi and Renfeo trade! Paxton ,Richards ( Kiké 10 mi for 2023) etc etc
AverageCommenter
I bet Cora’s leash is very long unfortunately. Bloom has got one more year unless things go really well.
Boxscore
Bloom for sure I want gone. I’m indifferent on Cora tho the cheating thing bothers me.
Fever Pitch Guy
Boxscore – It sure does look like Bloom has made several egregious errors.
1) Overspending on a crappy bullpen
2) Overspending on a shortstop who can’t play the position anymore and can’t hit
3) Allowing the team to just slightly go over the threshold
4) Lowballing Xander which now forces Bloom to either overpay or get nothing in return
I’m sure there’s more, those are the ones that immediately come to mind.
deweybelongsinthehall
Fever, negotiations 99% of the time start with outlandish demands and low ball offers. Most though are kept behind closed doors. In today’s world, everything seems to come out. As for Bloom, he’s simply the point person for ownership. His main role is in my view to mold the farm and look for value in players. Big contracts are ownership’s call. DD spent because ownership said yes, Bloom has spent other than for Story and for him, he needed ownership’s consent. Even not trading JDM was more likely ownership’s decision. Bloom’s DNA is to sell one day early rather than be one second too late.
deweybelongsinthehall
*Bloom has not spent
KyleT
You guys are suffering from ‘Deranged Bloom Syndrome’. You all obsess way too much about him. All it takes to trigger is the word “Red Sox” in an article. Seek help.
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – I get what you’re saying about negotiations, but there are limits and exceptions to the rule. Go too low with an offer and it comes across as an insult. If you really want to keep the player, you make a serious offer right away and let them know it’s the best you can do. That’s what they did with Mookie, offering $300M. They didn’t lowball him because they truly wanted to keep him.
Yes ownership has to sign off on big contracts, but it’s up to Bloom to present good ones and justify the potential expenditure.
Did you just compare Bloom to Belichick? Haha!
Rhyde1990
1.) overspent on a bullpen? What are you talking about? He’s barely spent on the bullpen.
2.) Why can’t Story play shortstop anymore? Because of an elbow issue from LAST YEAR?
3.) He built a competitive team in 2021 while substantially improving the farm system.
4.) I love Xander, and they should have presented something better, but at the same time, history has time and time again shown you don’t bend over backwards for a player that’s going north of 30, especially when his avg exit velocity and chase rate are going down. Projections aren’t on his side.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
@Fever Pitch Guy
I disagree on Story. The guy can hit when healthy. He’s a solid hitter. One season can’t define him either.
If we sign Bogaerts and he declines, are you going to get on Bloom for that and call him “cheap”? You can’t have it both ways.
I’m not a big supporter of Bloom but you make it sound like everything the guy touches dies. It’s not that drastic.
Fever Pitch Guy
Rhyde – Check out the comments on the last few Red Sox articles, we’ve all been talking about how much Bloom got in return relative to how much he spent on the bullpen.
Look how much Bloom paid for Barnes, Strahm, Brasier, Ort, Diekman, Robles, Sawamura, Davis, Valdez, Familia and then look at the production they provided. The only relievers that performed well for their salary were Whitlock, Schreiber and Houck.
I give a pass on Barnes because he was signed when he was still great, but none of those others came close to earning their contract.
Yes on Story … again, read up on the arm injury … he suffered it in 2021 and this year he had statistically one of the weakest infielder arms in MLB which is why he didn’t play even one inning at SS.
Again, read up on 2021 …powered mostly by players Bloom had nothing to do with acquiring … All-Stars Eovaldi, Xander, Devers, JD Martinez, Barnes and other supporting players he didn’t acquire such as Vazquez, ERod, Dalbec, Houck, Taylor, Sale and Darwinzon.
Your opinion on the farm system is conjecture.
You’ve painted yourself in a corner on Xander, saying they were right to not offer him more than what they did prior to this season … so then WHY didn’t they trade them? And WHY are they now offering him more?
Fever Pitch Guy
pedey – Story was healthy thru mid-July. In those 81 games he hit just .221 with a putrid .289 OBP and just a .713 OPS while on his way to leading the league in strikeouts until the injury ended his Strikeout King title bid.
But it goes beyond 2022 … in 2020 his OPS dropped 43 points
In 2021 his OPS dropped 73 points
And this year his OPS dropped 64 points
So you can say what you want, but the stats easily prove you wrong … Story has been in a major offensive decline for 3 consecutive seasons now.
At some point it would be nice if you realize I can back up whatever I say, because I have often done so already. I don’t enjoy proving people wrong, like when others claimed Theo didn’t have Thanksgiving dinner with Schilling or that the dinner didn’t contribute to his acquisition. And the fact they never bother to come back with “Sorry for not believing you, my bad” says what kind of person they truly are.
I have no clue why you think I’d call Bloom cheap for overpaying Xander now. I would most definitely call him stupid for not signing Xander to a smaller contract pre-2022. I’ve said many times recently, whatever happens with him will be a lose-lose situation … overpay him now, or get nothing in return when he walks. Bad business, Bloom has mishandled Xander about as bad as possible. Very similar to when Lester was looking for an extension.
We’ve already discussed this, I have defended Bloom numerous times. In fact look downthread and you’ll see I defending him earlier today.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
@Fever Pitch Guy I do agree Xander should have been locked up ahead of time but I still think Story was a solid addition, I just don’t know why Bloom would prefer Story over giving longer contracts elsewhere.
And maybe you’ve defended Bloom but your tone says otherwise. If you defended him, you do so with a far less noticeable tone. You easily make your displeasure toward him with more energy, which overpowers the positives. Quality over quantity. It’s pretty obvious you don’t like him.
Fever Pitch Guy
pedey – How you interpret other people’s posts is your prerogative, I guess. I don’t dislike anyone, if I did I’d say so. Not once have I demanded Bloom gets fired immediately. But sure he’s done more bad than good, I wish I had reason to compliment him more often but I don’t. I think the Vazquez trade is the last good move he made.
The biggest myth is that Bloom did a good job re-building the farm system. Well several of the top prospects he didn’t draft or sign, several other prospects he acquired by trading ML talent that he inherited, and other prospects he was able to draft because the team finished in last place. None of that screams “good job Bloom”. It’s hard not to draft very good prospects when you’re picking from the highest slots.
Look up the article Alex Speier did a couple months ago about the prospects Bloom has acquired, it’s not very flattering.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
@Fever
I never said you wanted him fired but you easily imply it. It’s not my prerogative to assume, I just go off what is said. I have no problem if you dislike Bloom, I’m just sick of hearing all harsh things going his way, some of which I feel is unreasonable.
You are highly intelligent when it comes to baseball but sometimes I think you get so caught up with Bloom and the management doing a poor job that you miss the big picture.
But I will freely admit you probably know more than me about things behind the scenes… I still think you push it a bit far. Let things play out a bit.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Case in point… @Fever Pitch Guy
You get mad at Bloom because he doesn’t sign Mookie or Bogaerts to be big team players for years.
Yet you get mad when he signs Story to a big contract. And don’t say Story is in decline any more than Bogaerts because he’s in his thirties too and it’s a matter of years. And Bogaerts will cost even more… heck, even Betts will decline in that contract.
Logistically, you don’t give Bloom a chance. If you want to be consistent, praise him for making a big signing or don’t, but don’t just hate on him one way and then the other next time.
You don’t like big contracts, fine but it can’t be both ways just to fit your decision and what you want.
JoeBrady
but I still think Story was a solid addition
——————————–
Story is fine. The HBP hurt a lot.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
I agree, Story is fine but for some reason a “big” contract for Story is not justifiable for an even “bigger” contract for Bogaerts. And no matter what, Bloom takes the blame.
I only question the consistency of his deals and where the team is going. I don’t care who he signs or what he chooses so long as he has a plan. I just find it ironic how Bloom is being blamed for not spending money and then when he does spend it, it’s a bad deal. Give him a break.
JoeBrady
A lot of this is just ridiculous. He’s only had enough money for one big contract. He missed a quarter-season with a HBP and still managed a 2.5 bWAR. That cannot be more than slightly happy or slightly unhappy. And that oftentimes depends on whether the poster likes or dislikes Bloom.
Being a GM is a long-term commitment. Samuel is correct. This is about drafting and developing. Story is a blip on the screen. We need to get one more prospect on the field every year. We need one more SP and one more RP prospect every two years.
If we do that, burning a little cash on guys like Story won’t hurt at all. If we don’t do that, we won’t have enough money to sign the number of FAs that we will need.
Since Theo left in 2011, the only prospects of any note whatsoever that we have developed were Benintendi (15.7), Houck (4.5) and Kopech (3.7).. That’s nothing. The RS have been riding on Theo coattails for 11 years now.
Fever Pitch Guy
pedey – Trust me, I don’t imply things. I am a very straightforward guy, very blunt. I don’t think it’s fair that you read between the lines, because then you’re putting words in other people’s keyboards.
Plenty of people here have been critical of Bloom, it comes with the territory. You do well, like Dombrowski did this year and in 2016-2018, then you’ll avoid the criticism for the most part.
Look at where the team is right now. Coming off a horrific season, on the verge of possibly losing their two best players, lots of holes in the roster, and absolutely no indication the team is willing to spend to improve. People have every right to complain about Bloom.
It’s the opposite, I focus on the big picture more than anything. I look at how John Henry has changed and how ownership has become uninterested in winning, in part because of all the other FSG investments. But yeah, I’m much more emotionally invested in this team than most here. That’s the way it is growing up in the Boston area. If you want to see fans that don’t really give a crap, go to the west coast.
The knowledge I have, some of which I’ve shared here the past couple years, is from devoting a lot of time and energy on the team. I can’t just shrug off a horrific season like 2022 or losing out on great players like Mookie, Xander and Devers. It’s the price I pay for caring too much.
Fever Pitch Guy
pedey – I understood letting Mookie go, when it became evident the Sox wouldn’t sign him I advocated for them to trade him. Sure I miss him, but I THOUGHT at the time it would free up funds to acquire other top talent. Yet here it is, 3 years later, and the only big expenditure has been on Story … that’s a gut punch right there.
Xander was different, I realize with Mayer on the way it doesn’t make sense to keep both Devers and Xander. But if they let both go? A horrific decision it would be.
You keep ignoring all the times I’ve praised Bloom, so I won’t keep repeating it over and over.
AK sox fan
I don’t think its a question of if he built up the farm, what he hasn’t done is traded away the pieces he had that are now top Prospects now. It will take time to see how some of the prospects he got in trades or drafted pan out….
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
@Fever Pitch Guy
To be honest, I haven’t seen you praise Bloom. Either ignorance on my part or it’s sandwiched between the negatives. And trust me, I read a lot of what you post and agree with a lot. I haven’t seen praise from you in tone or writing.
I’m not putting words in your mouth. I’m sure we will both say that because of interpretation but I comment on what I read and I honestly have not seen you praise Bloom without a negative to go with it. Your tone is all against him. That’s how I interpret it and honestly I think you assume you don’t without looking at your negative tone.
And no, I don’t agree with everything you say. I’m okay with not spending a lot if a plan is in place. I question the plan in place but am not one to just call it off until this season.
You keep going back and forth saying it’s been a failure yet you’ll give Bloom this year. I hear more about the failure part. Do keep in mind we made the postseason in 2021… this is undermined
Don’t tell me I’m not reading your posts, because I am. I have a different opinion of your own rhetoric than yourself.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
And you were dissatisfied with the results of the trade for Mookie… you’ve been more vocal about that than the positives but he had to do what he had to do.
According to Bloom at the press conference, they have some money to spend this off-season and when they traded Betts it was about timing. We will see if that’s true but it was an explanation.
If you truly praise him, do so without dropping a negative connotation after each positive post or else just accept you aren’t satisfied with Bloom and be bitter about it all season. Just be consistent. I will say that being bitter will get you nowhere if they do end up winning this year. I’m not happy with what is going on but I’m willing to accept that it’s a new season and not dawn on the past.
Fever Pitch Guy
JoeBrady said “Since Theo left in 2011, the only prospects of any note whatsoever that we have developed were Benintendi (15.7), Houck (4.5) and Kopech (3.7).. That’s nothing. The RS have been riding on Theo coattails for 11 years now.”
So now Joe is pretending Devers and his 15.2 WAR don’t exist? He was signed in 2013 Joe.
Fever Pitch Guy
pedey – I appreciate you reading my posts. Even though I disagree on some of what you write, I respect your opinion.
Fever Pitch Guy
pedey – You’re simply not understanding. Like with the Mookie return …yeah so far I’m unhappy with it, but I also acknowledged the circumstances surrounding it. He was traded with only one year of control remaining, and he was demanding like $400M, so of course both those factors played a part in bringing down his value. And again, I defended Bloom by saying he didn’t have the option of trading Mookie any sooner and virtually no teams wanted to give up much for a player making those huge salary demands.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
You say you defended him, I just can’t recall one moment where that was. I’m not the type to denounce one of their own views so I won’t research it because that’s a jerk move on my part but I don’t remember ever seeing a post of support from you in the trade. It’s not worth the fight. I’ll take your word for it because it truly doesn’t make a difference. I comment on what I see
Endersgame
Wow… “If you want to see fans that don’t really give a crap, go to the west coast.”
Way to generalize there, bud. I have been a Mariners fan since I have been old enough to understand what baseball is. I have closely watched all the games I could, I have closely followed every move the team has made, even through the 20 year playoff drought. I have watched the Mariners waste the best year of King Felix, I have watched them mostly waste the career of Ichiro, and I have suffered through disappointing season after disappointing season.
If you are allowed to generalize about how dedicated the west coast fans are, am I allowed to generalize about how entitled and rude east coast fans are?
kmk1986
News bulletins Cora wasn’t the first and won’t be the last many probably have and never got caught games were probably dirtier back in the day who really knows
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
I like Cora as manager and willing to give Bloom a chance. If Bloom doesn’t get us far this year, I think he’s gone.
Cora makes gutsy decisions and they didn’t pat off last year but have in the past. He can only work with what Bloom gives him.
miltpappas
Unfortunately for Boston fans, Bloom and Cora will be there at least through ’23 and probably ’24. Though, IMO, Cora should never have been brought back after his suspension.
Fever Pitch Guy
milt – Bringing back Cora was a John Henry decision, for non-baseball related reasons.
GreenMonsta
“Unfortunately for Boston fans”
I like this kind of team. With the worst farm system in baseball back in 2019, and over the cap for multiple years, only an idiot would think this was going to be a quick turn around.
Now, with lots of talent moving up the ranks. Red Sox will have a quality HOME BUILT team in 2024, 25. I enjoy this long-term approach, which will produce a long-term contender. It would be a shame if they didn’t stick with Bloom at this point.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Croagnut- I’m okay with a rebuild if it were a full rebuild. If he was truly rebuilding then Bloom should’ve done more at the deadline to get prospects back. That didn’t happen.
kmk1986
Why Cora that I don’t understand ??
Fever Pitch Guy
kmk – Where do I begin?
1) Awful bullpen management
2) Rests players much more than needed
3) Has repeatedly stated it’s not important to win games before July
4) Often has players unnecessarily playing out of position
5) Divisive in the clubhouse
6) Babies the players far too much
7) Too easygoing, fails to motivate the players
He’s just another Jimy Williams or Grady Little. When he moves on to another team that isn’t stacked with talent, he will fail badly and then quietly disappear.
JoeBrady
Why Cora that I don’t understand ??
—————————-
In his 4 years here, he won the WS once, and was within two games of a WS appearance a 2nd time. That’s what counts.
Fever Pitch Guy
Joe – You’re probably too young to remember Grady Little, but he averaged 94 regular season wins with the Red Sox and he took the team within 5 outs of a World Series appearance.
He was fired immediately after, the Dodgers foolishly hired him for two seasons of managing, and then he never managed again.
So no, you can’t judge a manager just by what his high payroll team of All-Stars accomplishes. That 2018 team was stacked with All-Stars, Mookie was MVP, Sale was 4th in Cy Voting, JD was 4th in MVP voting. A damn monkey could have managed that team to a championship.
And I’m not even taking into account that little cheating scandal in 2018 concocted by the mastermind of the 2017 Astros cheating scandal.
DarkSide830
Brash is a dime in a dozen with his K rate and BB rate. Every system has a dozen guys like that nowadays.
richardc
Yeah, but what about his whiff rate and his spin rate on his curve!?! lol
That was sarcasm, I tend to agree with you, but some front office will look at his “potential” and might have more of an opportunity for him to fail than a team like the Mariners.
I might give him a shot if I’m a noncontending team, or a team with a really weak bullpen, if the price is right, but that would be it from my point of view..
avenger65
You forgot his barrel rolls. Don’t forget another useless statistic.
iverbure
Tell me you don’t understand current baseball without telling me you don’t understand current baseball.
Fever Pitch Guy
bure – Slobbering over useless statistics is not baseball.
There are indeed plenty of useless statistics that are being created strictly for monetary gain, surely you understand that even if you won’t admit it.
JoeBrady
Tell me you don’t understand current baseball without telling me you don’t understand current baseball.
===================================
To be honest, these aren’t particularly “current baseball”. For someone to suggest his K-rate is dime a dozen befuddles me. His 14.2/9 in AAA is elite.
In his last 29 games of the regular season, he allowed runs in only two of them. And the followed that up with 3.1 scoreless innings in the playoffs.
As an RP, he had a 2.35 ERA, in 30.2 IPs with a 43/16 K/W, and a .548 OPSa. Obviously a SSS, but his BP FIP is #6 out of 253 RPs with 30+ innings. There are a large range of outcomes, but “every team has dozens of guys like this” is pretty much not in the likely range of outcomes.
kmk1986
If he can control brash def does have wipeout stuff time will tell with him
sportsfan101
Blooms biggest issue has been treating Boston like TB. The pressure is far different and that’s gonna affect a lot of the buy low and hope for gold candidates.
kingken67
People need to get over where Bloom came from. He has not been treating Boston like TB in any way. He inherited a lot of bloated contracts and dead money which has limited what the team can spend. He dealt with that rather well in 2021 and got the team deep into the playoffs. Last year too many injuries to too many players derailed things, and contrary to popular belief among some fans no, he should not have been able to predict most of the injuries. The level of whining from the fan base this past year has really gotten to absurd levels.
MLB-1971
Much (or even most) of the credit and blame for 2020, 2021, and 2022 rosters can be put on Dave Dombrowski (and Henry ownership). There has been little CBT space and a lot of old DD contract (David Price, JD Martinez,…). This coming season will the test of what Bloom does! The first order of business is to sign an extension for Devers, and assess if Bogaerts is worth re-signing.
JoeBrady
I agree 100%. There seems to be very few that will both credit and blame DD. 2018 and 2022 are mirror images of the same moves. If you love DD, then you have to admit his signings are what cost us in 2022. If you hate DD, then you still have to admit that the signings that cost us 2022 also helped us win the WS in 2018.
IMHO, unless 2023 goes seriously well, or seriously badly, it won’t be a judgement year. His first draft was only 2020, and looks good, but at least one year too early to judge.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
It would not be Dipoto’s first Brash move
blackandorange
….muted
Rishi
Mets without Seth Lugo don’t even feel like the Mets anymore. The odd part is I’m only half joking. Watched too many NL East games.
SODOMOJO
Brash reminds me so much of KRod. Similarly dominant stuff and this great debate about his future. KRod probably would have been a great starting pitcher. Will be interesting to see how Brash develops.
MLB-1971
Bloom failed to address RF and the bullpen in 2022. If he had, the Red Sox would have made the playoffs (too many 8th and 9th inning collapses). With all the budget constraints lifted, Bloom needs to show he can get the players he needs signed or he will be gone. That said, there have been almost zero signings this offseason, so fans need to chill.
Samuel
JC#1;
The only hope Red Sox fans have for a FO guy to satisfy them is to get Dave Dombrowski back. But the Phillies locked him in, and the front-running Red Sox fans have spent 3 years complaining about him.
If Mr. Bloom is let go of next year – and he may well be – Red Sox fans might find themselves in the same position as Mets fans did a year ago…….between the owner and the fan base almost all qualified candidates didn’t even want to interview.
Running a Baseball Ops department is hard enough without the pressure and unrealistic expectations.
Samuel
Should have been:
….between the owner, THE LOCAL MEDIA, and the fan base……
MLB-1971
Samuel – DD was great in 2016, 2017, and 2018, which caused big problems in 2019,2020, 2021, and 2022 with payroll. I do not want DD back! I got tired of watching too many players traded. Boston needs more home grown talent in the MLB, not less from ‘trader Dave’.
Samuel
” Boston needs more home grown talent in the MLB, not less from ‘trader Dave’.”
JC#1;
Fine.
But that puts you in the minority of Red Sox fans and want to win now….each year.
richardc
Most pitchers with that much arm talent, typically start out in the minors as starters.
Usually, it is only when they fail at starting do they end up becoming bullpen arms.
Nowadays though, we are starting to see more and more college relievers getting drafted, and then they’re rushed up through the system as set-up men/closers. Now, even with that being the case, there are still some organizations that will try to stretch some of those guys out at first to see if they can succeed as a starter, but only usually if they have some filthy stuff and they see some untapped potential because the prospect hasn’t been pitching very long, or because he has never fully committed to just pitching.
SPs will always carry more value; therefore, teams will almost always try to make their most talented arms starters. Then, typically only after they fail, they will move them to the bullpen and try them out there with their role being dependent upon their arsenals, their command, and their control.
The facts are some pitchers can handle throwing at or near their max velocity for 100 pitches, and some cannot. Some pitchers can only throw at their peak for 20-25 pitches, but they can do it everyday without any issues. Some pitchers are able to develop multiple solid secondary offerings to go along with their fastball, and then some pitchers are stuck with only two viable ML pitches. Shoot, some can pitch lights out coming out of the pen in the 7th and 8th innings, but if you ask them to close out games, they instantly start to suck it up..
There are several factors that go into ultimately deciding a pitcher’s best role, but, again due to value, demand, and need, the most talented pitchers will almost always be tried out as starters first.
I will say though, these days having three or four dependable bullpen arms is just as vital to a team’s success as having three or four reliable starters. That is the case especially with starting pitchers averaging fewer and fewer innings per start.
Personally, I know without Matzek, Minter, and W.Smith, the Braves would have never even made it to the World Series, and they certainly wouldn’t have won it. Just like this year, without Minter, Iglesias, Matzek, Jansen, and McHugh the Braves would have never even sniffed winning the NL East. Also, when you look at it, out of all those pitchers only AJ Minter wasn’t first tried out as a starter before being converted to a relief pitcher..(Maybe Kenley too, but idk. I just know he was first a Catcher, and then he was converted into a pitcher, but idk if he was ever tried out as a starter or not. lol)
Enough rambling from me, I just find the topic interesting in general. My bad..lol
Samuel
richardc;
Excellent post!
One other point about relief pitchers – they need to be able to pitch at least 2 days in a row and hopefully 3. Many pitchers need days off to recover, even if they throw 20-25 pitches. MLB used to have long reliefers which is where starters would often begin their major league careers. So guys that would pitch 3-5 innings would then be rested for at least a few days. Today it seems like only the Rays still use some relief pitchers that way. Most relief pitchers are only required to pitch one inning.
oot
Go back to earlier days of baseball and you will find that many starters (including stars) also pitched in relief. And starters who could throw hard didn’t rely on throwing every fastball at top speed because the game was different back then. Batters didn’t wear armor and pitchers had no compunction about pitching inside, brushing the batter back; thus, making batters stand farther back from the edge of the plate, which gives pitchers an edge at the outside corner.. In 1950, the AL team average was 27 HBP per game; in 2022 it was 64 HBP. The game has changed and not always for the best.
Stevil
Matt Brash is currently working on a cutter at Driveline and the clips I’ve seen are promising. That could make it harder for hitters to sit on his breaking stuff and it might be what allows him to return to the rotation,.or shoot up his trade value, though I don’t think Hollander’s entertaining the idea of moving him before Flexen or Gonzales.
Though I don’t think it’s likely at the moment, I wouldn’t even rule out him in the opening day rotation.
kmk1986
Krod had way better control when he came up
rct
Lugo has tried as a starter and he was not really effective. He’s pitched a lot better as a reliever. That said, if he’s open to continuing as a reliever as this report is suggesting, it’s a bit puzzling that the Mets haven’t reached out. They need arms for the pen and he’s familiar and reliable and probably won’t cost an arm and a leg.
a dawg
Pretty sure if a team gave him a legitimate chance he’ll be a solid 4th in the rotation. He was a major reason the Mets went to the playoffs in 16
rct
That was six years ago, though. From B-ref, his career splits:
As a starter – 4.35 ERA, 8.0 K/9, 1.336 WHIP
As a reliever – 2.91 ERA, 10.0 K/9, 1.053 WHIP
Those are simplistic numbers, sure, but that’s a pretty significant difference. If a team is willing to give him starts, he should jump on it (starters make more money). But if he’s willing to relieve, Mets should at least be in the mix with a standing, multi-year offer at a decent rate.
Dorothy_Mantooth
With some of these silly smaller deals Boston has made this offseason, their 40-man roster is currently full. They have 2-3 guys (like Caleb Ort) who are expendable but with the Red Sox needing at least 4-5 new pieces on their major league roster, I fully expect Boston to make a trade that will remove 3-4 players from their 40-man roster. A deal with Oakland for Sean Murphy makes the most sense. I don’t think it’s worth paying the price to try and get Brian Reynolds from Pittsburgh. Bloom also loves pilfering the Yankees during the Rule V draft so they need to jettison a couple of players just to make room for Rule V additions. If they do trade for Murphy, one (smaller) piece in that deal will be Bobby Dalbec. He is perfect fit for Oakland as he will play every day and have the chance to turn his career around out in the AL West.
solaris602
Dalbec’s perfect destination is OAK – you nailed it. He’ll get the opp to play every day so we can finally see who and what he is, and hopefully he won’t be Piscotty 2.0
b24brandonnn
Outbid by the rays.. smh
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
So Boston regrets not being more aggressive in the past regarding bullpen issues, yet have not delved into the market at all yet so far to fix said bullpen issues. Okay, that’s fair. If you have your wits about you, your bullpen should be 90% homegrown because shopping for bullpen pieces is expensive. But when you have no homegrown bullpen pieces, or they are suboptimal at best, then you need to delve into the market and pay the piper. So Boston needs to $%#@, or get off the pot in this regard.
GreenMonsta
“yet have not delved into the market at all yet so far to fix said bullpen issues”
mlbtraderumors.com/2022/11/red-sox-sign-joely-rodr…
Youre name fits better than you know.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
My bad.
Poster formerly known as . . .
This MLBTR headline could read as a tabloid headline describing a fight: Brash Lugo Red socks Raley. (Who’s Lugo Red?)
Flyby
its seth lugo’s ultimate form.
Rsox
Hindsight says keeping Hansel Robles and Austin Davis while giving Jake Diekman a 2 year deal while letting Adam Ottavino walk were all bad moves. Hopefully Joely Rodriguez works out and perhaps a reunion with Ottavino could be a step in the right direction
Fever Pitch Guy
Rsox – As much as I have voiced my desire to bring Ottavino back, I wouldn’t hold my breath. Bloom doesn’t typically pursue players that other teams have targeted, and he won’t increase his offer because another team has outbid him.
With the Mets interested in bringing him back, I doubt Bloom will win that one.
dannycore
Yeah I don’t see Jerry tossing Brash away for nothing. What is he up to? We need another really good hitter. Are we sniffing around for Bryan Reynolds again?
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
I would be very pleased to acquire Bryan Reynolds, and I would understand someone as talented as Brash could go to Pittsburgh for him; along with a couple others I’m sure.
SodoMojo90
I wouldn’t be upset about losing Brash in a deal for Reynolds. Julio needs to be hitting with runners on base
pittsburghbob69
Lol…probably not!!
baseballtradevalues.com/trade-simulator/
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
It’s pretty sad when the Rays outbid you for players.
Fever Pitch Guy
pedey – I know, right? We are talking just one million dollars a year, you’d think if Bloom wants a player he wouldn’t let such a small difference prevent him from signing said player.
DBH1969
Exactly FPG! I have posted repeatedly that I was hoping Bloom would make just such moves. Pay a mil or 2 more for good players instead of 8 year deals that suck after 2 or 3.
But instead, neither of those is how he operates. He’s addicted to sucky rehab projects. He’ll pick a guy based on 1 decent stat and completely ignore the other 54 stats that say he sucks.
Frustrating as all heck!
Samuel
“He’s addicted to sucky rehab projects. He’ll pick a guy based on 1 decent stat and completely ignore the other 54 stats that say he sucks.”
DBH1969;
You really think Bloom and his FO only look at stats to make decisions? What are they – kids like you playing rotisserie league
for real?
They have scouts, video, as well as other forms of input for their decision making that fans have no insight to.
You are correct – he’s looking for rehab projects! How do you think Cleveland, Baltimore, Houston, Tampa Bay, Milwaukee and other pitching factories built their bullpens and some of their starting rotations?
Where you have a point is that thus far the Red Sox haven’t been successful in building a strong coaching area to work with pitchers. And if there aren’t results shown in 2023 I do believe Mr. Bloom will be let go. None of those pitching factory teams coaching areas (working with scouts and analysts) were built in a year or two. It takes time. But some results should have been seen by now. Hoyer just started working on a strong pitch coaching area with the Cubs a year or two ago, and last year saw nice results with some of their pitchers.
MLB teams cannot buy pitching and win. 1) It’s too expensive to pay retail for an entire staff; and 2) Inevitably even the best pitchers get out of sync during the season – if the coaching area cannot recalibrate them then they continue downhill…..which is why Epstein (with both the Sox and Cubs) was forever paying for name pitchers every offseason, watching them go downhill, and firing his pitching coach literally each year. In today’s MLB teams have to develop their own pitchers. Red Sox fans are stuck in thinking that if batters hit routine fly balls to LF that bounce off the monster for doubles they’ll win (8-6, 11-8; 14-11, etc). That won’t work in MLB today. The Sox still can’t find and develop pitchers and they won’t be consistent winners again until they do.
baseballteam
“Red Sox interested in Bogaerts”
LongTimeFan1
I suspect the Mets lack of interest in Lugo return has a lot to do with injury concerns which impacts durability out of the pen, infrequently pitching back to back games. He’s avoided TJ surgery after a small ligament tear in his elbow a number of years ago but has to be more regimented in his usage. He isn’t as dominant and effective as he used to be and is now 33.
AL34
Typical Bloom, a day late and a dollar short. Wow this offseason has gotten off to a big start for Bloom, Two mediocre pitchers and a backup utility guy who cannot hit. Yeah, I’m still laughing at Rosenthal saying the Red Sox are going to be big spenders this off-season. Yeah right! Not with Chaim Bloom at the controls.
Mrsuntan
You may not(you arn’t) smart enough to understand this but it’s not Bloom’s money. He is given a budget by ownership.
AL34
Yeah I l know that slick, but spend wisely. Sign Boggarts when he wanted to renegotiate last year and not lowball him. Now you are going to have to overpay for him with all the competition. Also with the long term contract that they are going to have to give him you are going to get some serious decline in the final years. I would not have panicked last year and given Story that contract because of the decline of his last few years. I would not have given Paxton the money he gave him and got nothing for it. I would never have traded for Jackie Bradley Jr. when Renfro was a better hitter and cheaper contract. I do not think much of Bloom.
Stevil
Hey Mark, Jerry Dipoto is no longer the GM. I’m sure you know that it’s Justin Hollander now.
Mi Casas es tu Casas
It’s 2022 GMs don’t have the power to make trades like they used to.
Stevil
You are mistaken.
Large contracts typically need ownership approval, but most GMs, outside of LAA, perhaps, have a lot flexibility.
Nothing has really changed.
GreenMonsta
Depends on the GM. Some wield lots of power, others not so much. After DD, Red Sox ownership is not give much room to Bloom, when it comes to big trades/acquistions..
AL34
I’m surprised John Henry face Bloom the money he gave him to sign Story.
Thec’s
It’s management who lets him spend! Bloom was brought here to build the farm! Henry wants to ba able to run this franchise the way Cleveland, Tampa and the A’s do! We need a pipeline of young players so we can spend on FA’s! We should be worried about locking up Deavers! By not going with the new long term strategy of paying the young players early and not locking them up long term has killed us! Sign Deavers to a 10 year contract worth 330 million plus and then worry about the rest! This strategy cost us
Moodier! Not everyone can preform in this market! When they do, sign them long term!
solaris602
And has Bloom built the farm? I know it takes years for that to flesh out, but allowing the Devers situation play out to this point will result in either a big overpayment, letting him walk for a comp pick, or trading him for prospects. I’d like to know what Bloom’s game plan is here. If the latter is the case, I don’t think that strategy worked out too well with Betts – they’re shopping Verdugo and trying to hide the fact that Jeter Downs is struggling mightily in the minors.
Samuel
solaris602;
I think the plan is….
Let Bogaerts and Devers go as the Sox aren’t ready to compete for an extended time. Signing them long-term for excessive salaries doesn’t matter – for the next few years they won’t win anyway. Meanwhile if one of those guys suffers a major injury and/or goes downhill they’ll be stuck with a bad contract or two when they need the payroll space to bring in other players to add to a young core.
They already have a SS in the high minors to replace Bogaerts. In 2 years they’ll pay for a big bat in free agency to replace Devers.
But all this depends on being able to develop pitchers. So far….not so good.
GreenMonsta
“And has Bloom built the farm?”
Yes, he most definitely has. The farm system was in the bottom 3, when he took over, now its ranked 11th by BA. That is a massive improvement.
compassrose
Sam I like that you are on here. Another who writes books and says a lot but it is all the same. I am old and hopped on pain killers what is your excuse? Lol
AL34
Were you impressed with any of the rookies the Red Sox brought up this season ? Duran needs to mature and are you ready to turn over 1B to Casas? Dalbac needs time in the minors and struggles mightily. None of the pitchers looked that great that they brought up. Give me an established player anytime over a prospect.
Fever Pitch Guy
solaris – Great post, you are 100% correct!
Other teams are extending or trading their star players at least 2 years before free agency, but not Bloom!
He holds onto his players until they have minimal trade value, gives them lowball offers, and then (supposedly) tries to sign them for an even higher amount after their value has increased. How many times are we going to hear this winter “Bloom won’t get much in return for just one year of Devers”..
But in defense of Bloom, he joined the team after Mookie’s final season with the Red Sox. It wasn’t his fault Mookie was traded with only one year remaining, the Sox were trying to repeat as champions in 2019 so trading Mookie before that season was not an option.
all in the suit that you wear
Fever: After the bad Chris Sale extension, I doubt John Henry will be signing off on any extensions two years before free agency. Maybe not even one year before free agency.
Mi Casas es tu Casas
Whitlock 4yr extension + 2 option years signed 5 years before free agency thanks for playing
all in the suit that you wear
Since I referenced the costly Chris Sale extension (not comparable to Whitlock’s extension), I thought you would get what I was implying. I guess not. Let me be more specific:
After the bad Chris Sale extension, I doubt John Henry will be signing off on any long, expensive extensions two years before free agency. Maybe not even one year before free agency. Devers is seeking a long, expensive extension worth at least $300M.
Fever Pitch Guy
suit – I agree when there are health concerns, which was obviously the case with Sale, but both Devers and Xander have been fairly healthy throughout their career.
I would rather try to lock up star players two years before free agency, than have to give out a much larger contract just one year later.
I’d also rather trade the player two years before free agency, than get nearly nothing by waiting until a year or less remaining before free agency.
bwmiller
I had a Brash idea – bagel sized english muffins
hoff38
So Cham can only focus on one player at a time? Give me a break.
Samuel
hoff38;
You really believe that?
LOL
GreenMonsta
What GM has multiple signings right now? Give me a break.
cgallant
Chaim, make Bogaerts a reasonable offer and them let him go. Marcelo Mayer will be up in ‘24. Let Trevor Story play SS next year.
Samuel
cgallant;
That seem to be the plan.
AL34
On the Benintendi trade that Bloom made, do we have anything worthwhile to show for that trade or did Bloom just get warm bodies for him?