11:40am: The Athletic’s Peter Gammons cites front office officials from three other teams who are of the belief that Bogaerts will not return to Boston (Twitter link). As he did with regard to Bogaerts playing another position, however, Boras outwardly denied the report, telling Alex Speier of the Boston Globe that Bogaerts is “open to any and all voices in the free agent market” and adding that he and Bogaerts “have not closed any doors on anyone.”
10:04am: Next week’s Winter Meetings are generally expected to serve as a catalyst for what’s been a slow-moving free agent market. As the league’s biggest offseason convention approaches, the interest for some of the top players available is beginning to come into focus.
Xander Bogaerts is part of a loaded shortstop class, and a number of teams have checked in with his representatives at the Boras Corporation. Jeff Passan of ESPN reports the Diamondbacks and Cubs have expressed interest, while adding that previously-reported suitors like the Phillies and Dodgers are in the mix. Meanwhile, Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic reports Padres president of baseball operations A.J. Preller recently checked in with Scott Boras about Bogaerts’ willingness to play a position other than shortstop. Boras, however, flatly rejected the possibility; the agent tells Rosenthal “Xander is playing shortstop” and denied that San Diego would prefer to move him off the position.
San Diego’s interest in Bogaerts isn’t a new development. Marino Pepén listed the Padres as a suitor last week, while Jon Heyman of the New York Post has suggested they’re involved in the top of the shortstop market more generally. The Friars are seemingly serious enough in their pursuit to gauge Bogaerts’ amenability to move off the position.
The infield mix at Petco Park is already crowded, although there are a number of multi-positional options who can move around. Manny Machado is locked in at third base, while the rest of the current infield figures to be made up by some combination of Fernando Tatis Jr., Ha-Seong Kim and Jake Cronenworth. Kim has proven himself an excellent defensive shortstop and earned an everyday role with a .251/.325/.383 showing this past season. Tatis was expected to be the franchise shortstop after a brilliant start to his career earned him a $340MM extension, but he’s now under consideration for a move to second base or the outfield after missing all of 2022 due to injury and a performance-enhancing drug ban. Cronenworth is a quality defender at the keystone, but the Friars have floated the possibility of kicking him over to first base with Josh Bell and Brandon Drury hitting free agency.
Adding a first base/designated hitter type might be the most straightforward path to building out the offense, but there’s no harm for Preller and his staff in considering other avenues. Adding another middle infielder while kicking Cronenworth to first base would give San Diego an elite defensive infield, while Bogaerts is among the top offensive players available regardless of position. He’s long been mentioned as a candidate to move off shortstop towards the end of a free agent deal after years of subpar defensive marks, but he quieted those concerns (at least in the short term) with arguably the best season of his career with the glove. Bogaerts rated as four runs above average in more than 1200 shortstop innings by both Defensive Runs Saved and Statcast this past season. He hasn’t played anywhere else since 2014 and while there’s little question he could handle a less demanding position like second or third base, it doesn’t seem he’s willing to do so.
There are a number of other teams with worse internal options than the Padres that’d surely be willing to plug Bogaerts in at his longtime position. The Diamondbacks relied on rookie Geraldo Perdomo this year, and he looked overmatched to the tune of a .195/.285/.262 line in 500 plate appearances. Nick Ahmed is under contract and can play excellent defense, but he’s always been a below-average hitter and lost almost all of this past season to surgery on his throwing shoulder.
Arizona general manager Mike Hazen is plenty familiar with Bogaerts from his previous work in the Red Sox’s front office, so it’s little surprise they’re interested in adding him given the uncertain shortstop outlook. The question is whether a Diamondbacks team that has had a payroll south of $100MM in each of the past two seasons would be willing to commit a deal of that magnitude. MLBTR predicts a seven-year, $189MM contract for Bogaerts. The D-Backs already have roughly $98MM in salary commitments for next season, per Roster Resource, so adding a salary in the realm of $27MM annually would require owner Ken Kendrick signing off on a major spending hike relative to recent levels.
The Cubs have a cleaner long-term payroll outlook that makes them a viable fit for any of the top shortstops. Nico Hoerner is a quality incumbent, but he’s already expressed a willingness to move to second base to accommodate a big-ticket acquisition. Roster Resource projects Chicago’s 2023 commitments around $127MM, and they’ve opened each of the past two seasons with payrolls in the $140MM to $150MM range. Chicago has pushed spending north of $200MM in the past. There’s room for an aggressive offseason, but president of baseball ops Jed Hoyer and his front office have to weigh whether to invest in the middle infield against other weak points on the roster like center field, first base, catcher and the back of the rotation.
Bogaerts rejected a qualifying offer from the Red Sox, so any signing team will have to forfeit draft choice(s) and/or international bonus pool space to sign him. Boston has consistently maintained retaining him is their top priority, though extension talks dating back at least to Spring Training haven’t gotten anywhere. The Phils are widely expected to be in play for a top shortstop, but reports suggest they’re more dialed in on Trea Turner at the moment. The Dodgers could certainly turn to any of the other shortstops if Turner walks, while the Twins reportedly have Bogaerts as their top fallback if they can’t retain Carlos Correa.
Josht
How many Shorstops do the Padres need? Gonna have 8 shortstops and a pitcher in 2 yrs
ed spiezio
That’s Preller for ya, he has now idea how to develop talent or build a team properly, he just likes spending Peter Seidler’s money.
mrpadre19
“No idea how to develop talent”?
So all these teams that traded their stars for his prospects are all fools?
Prospects can be used more than one way…keep them and play them..or trade them for “proven” major league stars.
He has used the latter to build the best Padre team in decades and just miss the WS.
If you believe all his prospects are scrubs then you have to give him credit for getting Soto/Musgrove/Hader Darvish/Bell/Drury for a bunch of bad players.
JoeBrady
He has used the latter to build the best Padre team in decades
==============================================
He is still using Seidler’s money to trade for players that other teams cannot afford. At the end of the day, SD is still has the #6 payroll and the #10 record. There is no magic to that.
Fever Pitch Guy
mr – All I hafta say is that it’s refreshing to see a team and it’s fans care more about winning than the rating of their farm system.
Padres Fans: “We have ownership that wants to win by fielding the best team possible”.
Some Red Sox fans: “Sure we have finished last two of the past three seasons, and will probably finish last next year, but we have a Top 15 farm system and we might be good in 3-5 years”.
Deleted Userr
@mrpadre19 WTF are you talking about? Being able to get your prospects over the hump into the majors, to “close” on them is the single most important step in development process! Shoot, I submit that it’s more important than all the other steps COMBINED! There is no point in having a top farm system if you can’t close on your prospects.
Kennyb217
You know you can care about both, right?
Samuel
Kennyb217;
Red Sox and Yankee fans think spending money is how you build a baseball team.
They’re the first to complain when their long-term contracts go sour with years remaining.
Pads Fans
Can you point out any posts on this site that prove your point?
A few years ago it was the Padres fans touting their farm system while sucking. While the Red Sox fans were saying we have ownership that wants to win and is fielding the best team possible.
Just never seen any fans touting both for the same team simultaneously.
kingken67
And yet the Red Sox have won more WS championships recently than San Diego has, well, ever. In fact they have more playoff wins in the past 5 years than San Diego has, so it’s not like the Padres are doing things “right” by any stretch.
Fever Pitch Guy
king – What has Bloom won in the 3 years he’s run the Red Sox?
Zero division titles
Zero AL pennants
Zero world championships
There isn’t a person alive who would expect the Red Sox to be better than the Padres next year, it’s not even remotely close.
But I will give my team the benefit of the doubt, by waiting until Opening Day to see what kind of team they have.
Samuel
Fever Pitch Guy;
Can’t take it anymore.
Mute.
flamingbagofpoop
What has Preller won in the last 3 years?
Zero division titles
Zero NL pennants
Zero world championships
mrpadre19
@TLH….you seem very passionate about developing prospects.
Me too.
When did I imply it wasn’t important?
Tell me…what’s the ultimate goal of developing prospects?
It’s to win “major league” baseball games and the World Series.
I’ve followed the Padres for over 50 years…we’ve had the top rated Farm system many times….top 10 many more times….what we have NEVER done is win a World Series.
mrpadre19
Not doing it right?
….the Padres and Red Sox are moving in opposite directions.
We never make the Playoffs and have just done so w of the last 3 seasons.
2023 will bring a trio of Tatis/Soto/Machado and possibly you can add Boegarts to that.
Tell me a better 123 and I know there won’t be a better 1-4 if we sign one of the top SS’s.
We’re winning….so yeah,we are finally “doing it right”.
mrpadre19
You can’t attest to their offense?
You can’t attest to Machado/Tatis/Boegarts/Cronenworth/Kim’s offense?
I can
Deleted Userr
Clearly you aren’t passionate about developing prospects considering you literally just advocated trading them all away before the job is done.
Well, Preller did what you wanted and still no championship. Snell, Darvish and Machado can all be free agents next offseason, Soto the offseason after that and Cronenworth the offseason after that.
Brew88
I think the nuance here is between acquiring good prospects (and their trade value) and developing prospects for the team’s ML roster. The Padres have been good at the former, not the later. A team that’s good at both and who has ownership $ commitment, wins WS
Jung Like My Daddy
I mean, 8 shortstops would make up a very gifted defensive front to say the least. I can’t attest to offense but im sure they’d lead the league in defense.
.
No, 40 left fielders would be a lot better than 8 shortstops.
VonPurpleHayes
Boagerts is a future 2b in my eyes.
acell10
LF or 1B aren’t bad options either. He’s probably got at least 2 maybe 3 years at short before he might need a position shift.
yewed
It could come sooner or later. His arm strength isn’t in top 30 for SS which itself doesn’t mean everything but his max is right about league average.. With bigger bases coming I think arm strength becomes more important for SS and 3B going forward.
Pads Fans
Best athlete on the field. About half of all CF, 3B, and 2B started as SS.
Samuel
“A.J. Preller recently checked in with Scott Boras about Bogaerts’ willingness to play a position other than shortstop.”
AJ Preller cannot possibly figure that out by himself.
He must have spoken with Bob Melvin.
JoeBrady
I’m calling BS on both.
AZ has a still viable prospect playing SS, with a vaguely qualified Ahmed. Bogaerts is a pretty good fit offensively, but they really need two SP and a closer. If they go with Bogaerts over Perdomo, and fail to get a closer or at least one SP, then they are wasting their money.
A'sfaninUK
Never followed a Bob Melvin team before, have you?
Bogaerts would likely be playing a bad CF for the Padres by May. Melvin absolutely loves creating entire lineups of players who are playing a different position to the one they played their entire careers. Expect SD to keep adding no matter the position.
A'sfaninUK
This was a reply to @josht – whoops
TheDogDays
I think Melvin does a pretty good job dealing with the players he’s given.
Sideline Redwine
He’s had some success! He doesn’t know as much as those of us who post on here, but not a bad career indeed.
Brew’88
None of us mlbtr people would want the job anyway, doesn’t pay well enough to suit our talents
highheat
I don’t know about 2 SP being needed with Gallen, Kelly, Jameson, Nelson, and (sadly) Bumgarner with Pfaadt the likely first in line. It’d be nice to get one more, but it’s not as pressing as getting a CP.
The team must not think they can get to the top end of the C market or believe that Carson Kelly will be fine next season to have Bogaerts be a priority.
MafiaBass
7/189 is so cheap. I’ve been saying 6/200 for months. Why can’t Boston just pony up?
A'sfaninUK
The owner/ownership group of the Red Sox are scamming all of their employees, going cheap as possible anywhere they can, so the bigwigs at the top who do nothing all day get another million dollar bonus.
Never forget, the biggest source of theft in America is wage theft.
DTD/ATL1313
Yeah, those hundred million dollar contracts are a perfect example of wage theft…
Salvi
Werent the Red Sox over the cap this year? and 2 years ago? and the year before that, and the year before that?
Youre either wrong, or the Red Sox owners are terrible at scamming.
A'sfaninUK
Yeah, supporting the owners stealing profits the players made means you really get it, huh? smh
A'sfaninUK
@HuntingtonAveGrounds ever crossed your mind why you know the salaries of every player, but you never get to see the final profits and salaries of the CEO? Of course it hasnt.
Red Sox owners are excellent at scamming. They take profits the players make and steal it from them, taking too big a slice of the pie they never did one thing for other than sitting at home and golfing.
JoeBrady
Huntington’s point, which you did an egregiously bad job of trying to dance around, is that the Red Sox are one of the biggest spenders in baseball.
No matter what some RS fans tell you, the RS are not cheap by almost any measure. Viva Che! would not mind if you admitted that you were wrong.
wayneroo
Hate to tell you, but the profits the players make BELONG to the owners, just like any other business. Nice try though.
desertdan
Wayneroo- the players make a salary, the owners/investors make the profit from a company. The RS front office has spent plenty these last few years, but sadly been stuck with the David Price type boondoggles that leave a bad taste for those size contracts
desertdan
@wayneroo don’t the players earn a salary? The owners/investors make profit and watch their investment go up in value every year. My feeling on the Red Sox FO is they’ve been burned so many times ala David Price, panda, Hanley, etc. that they’re reluctant to approve many more 200m contracts. I can live with letting X walk if they lock up Devers this off season. I can see Devers waiting until free agency if they don’t resign X which I highly doubt they do with Meyers a year or two away
desertdan
Sorry didn’t mean to post this twice. Kept giving me an error
TheDogDays
A’sfan thinks the Sox owners won the lottery and don’t make money themselves. Talk about clueless.
TheDogDays
So to clarify:
Multi millionaire players should hold out for every last penny but owners should just hand out money , with zero budget….
Where should the Red Sox play?
Rodney Dangerfield: How about Fantasy Land?!
A'sfaninUK
@JoeBrady but you arent a good arbiter of what is correct and what isnt, you are a Red Sox homer.
TheDogDays
Yes JoeBrady, only A’s fans are allowed to have opinions!!
A'sfaninUK
@wayneroo I wasnt saying that, I was saying the owners were scamming too big a piece of the pie from the players. Owners/CEO class etc is of course entitled to lots of the profit, but they are taking so much these days that its time to call them out. There’s so many MLB team owners who’s goal is to take as much of the profits made as possible, being cheap with salaries is a big way for them to directly profit.
Awesome to see that you at least admit all the owners are scammers. A braindead homer would see the “Red Sox owners are scammers” and immediately play defense replyguy for their beloved franchise, but a smarter person would go “yeah so? theyre all like that”, that’s true, my fave team is the A’s and our owner is a massive scammer. All 30 MLB fanbases can say this about all 30 MLB team owners, and there’s nothing you can do about that. Nice try though.
TheDogDays
“The goal of the owner is to make as much profit as possible.”
Wow, what a scam!
JoeBrady
@JoeBrady but you arent a good arbiter of what is correct
============================
Y’all have to stop digging once the hole your in is over your head.
There is no “arbiter” when it comes to facts. The RS are #4 in payroll. That’s a fact. That won’t change whether you ask a Yankee fan, a Dodger fan or a Laker fan.
JoeBrady
Next thing you’ll hear is that the heartless players want to make as much as possible. More scammers.
Then evil vendors will insist on making money.
Then the vendor’s employees will form a union and ask for more.
And then the fans will try to get cheaper tickets.
Oh, the humanity!
I have no idea what drives some people. Everyone wants to make as much as possible. Everyone wants to keep as much as possible.
flamingbagofpoop
When you have opinions as bad as his, “egregiously bad job”, is about the best you can expect.
flamingbagofpoop
Bro, facts are racist.
HankHollywood
They also take the risk.
HankHollywood
He’s just pissed because his team spends more on crusty hotdogs than their own players.. Luckily for the majority of the league this isn’t the case. He needs more vuvuzela.
MafiaBass
They actually can be when compared to the value of WAR. For example, when Trout signed his extension, he had already produced every penny of it. The Angels are getting off very cheaply for a guy that can still finish as a top 10 player ever.
keysox
Must of had to zoom call with the White Sox owner.
desertdan
@wayneroo don’t the players earn a salary? The owners/investors make profit and watch their investment go up in value every year. My feeling on the Red Sox FO is they’ve been burned so many times ala David Price, panda, Hanley, etc. that they’re reluctant to approve many more 200m contracts. I can live with letting X walk if they lock up Devers this off season. I can see Devers waiting until free agency if they don’t resign X which I highly doubt they do with Meyers a year or two away
TheDogDays
I love when Libs try to further their narrative with ridiculous comparisons….particularly economic ones.
A'sfaninUK
I love when right wing psychos assume people are “Libs” just for being pro-worker and anti-billionaire. Grow up, go outside.
acell10
I don’t agree with almost all of what UKA’s fan says nor do I fully agree what he’s saying here but way to be the first to shoehorn in a terrible political take into the conversation.
TheDogDays
I’m not “right-wing” , though I do love it when Libs typically try to label someone and ridiculously act like ball players are the same as cashiers lol.
TheDogDays
But you’re right. Successful billionaires should take business advice from people not nearly as successful! Makes sense!
acell10
it’s always interesting and funny to find two people so totally off the rail when arguing opposite points.
TheDogDays
Lol , you’re totally right. It’s just the concept of pointing fingers at owners, while pretending the players have no bargaining power is so absurd on face.
acell10
I tend to side with players over owners but singling out one team for such practices that spent at or above the cap is pretty silly. I do feel like the players should demand and get more of the revenue though.
TheDogDays
Well that’s up to them to negotiate. They aren’t migrant workers, they have rights and leverage too.
TheDogDays
Hard to say it’s a terrible political take….if it’s accurate lol
acell10
no calling what you said a terrible political take was accurate.. Your poorly shoehorned in response wasn’t.
TheDogDays
Please explain… clearly he’s a liberal so….
Use specifics to make a point.
acell10
So what? you brought politics into a conversation that had nothing to do with it. that was the specific point from the jump. You shoehorned in a terrible political take into a conversation that had nothing to do with politics.
TheDogDays
So you’re offended that I called someone a Liberal … because his opinion was liberal ….and he is a liberal.
Bizarre ok, thanks for the convo.
Oh and btw, it’s totally political.
acell10
you’re really good at tripling down on terrible takes. Just because I’m pointing out how stupid your take is doesn’t mean I’m offended. You just seem to like introducing your own weird bent on things where it doesn’t exist. I accurately pointed out that you are the guy who incorrectly brings in terrible political takes to conversations that aren’t political no matter how badly you want that to be that the case.
His take was pretty bad but your response was equally as bad for the above reasons. Pretty simple really that even you should be able to understand that.
TheDogDays
Again, how can you call a take stupid…. When’s it’s accurate? You’ve said nothing to back your claim up. You seem offended by an accurate label. Wonder why
Maybe I simply have better intuition than you, no need to be upset about it.
You’re the type that will watch a news program that’s entirely biased , yet doesn’t even realize it.
flamingbagofpoop
Is that supposed to be worse than shoehorning UKA’s awful and often factually incorrect economic takes into conversations?
flamingbagofpoop
Why?
Salvi
Because 7yrs/189 is on the very low end of estimates:
Heyman 8yrs/225
mlb.com 8yrs/240
Also, Bogaerts is looking for more than 6 years. He doesn’t want to hit the market at 36. He’d rather lock those years down at todays rate.
30 Parks
Chaim Bloom and I have differing understandings of “priority.”
Kennyb217
Comments like this show out boneheaded Red Sox really are. Even if they have offered him 7 years for $240 million doesn’t mean he would have already accepted it, especially when there’s a bunch of other teams interested.
30 Parks
Kenny – I agree. Comments like this really do “show out boneheaded Red Sox really are.” Well said.
Dbacks44
Asa diehard dbacks fan since the beginning let me tell you this is exactly what they need. A power right handed hitting all star. Ahmed is hurt to much and perdalmo is just ok. You add Xander yo that lineup and you will see them make the playoffs. We have to many lefties.
Dbacks44
Perdomo also is super young. We need a few veterans. One starter 2 bullpen and one hitter. We are not far away.
scottaz
Dbacks44,
Agree with much of what you wrote, BUT Dbacks have Jordan Lawler for future SS. If they sign Bogaerts to a 6, 7 or 8 year deal they totally block Lawler. Of course they can trade Lawler, but my point is the Dbacks need to spend that kind of money at a position where they don’t block their best young prospects. Let Ahmed and Perdomo bridge the time gap to Lawler, and spend instead on a closer or 3b where they have no one.
Dbacks44
Absolutely get that. The issue is waiting man. Hazen said no more prospects he’s going to trade for. We have to many already. The issue is to have so many young players with no real pop in the lineup. Remember when dbacks traded for JD they were fantastic. That was cause we had some pop in the middle of the lineup. Marte isn’t it. He needs to be batting second. Lawlar is 3 years away at least from making a big impact. That’s to say he will be great. Xander is already proven and would be a 300 hitter with 25 hrs and play great short stop. We have to spend somewhere
sufferforsnakes
I believe Lawlar will be making an impact sooner than 3 years…..if he does a better job of getting out of the way of errant pitches.
Dbacks44
I sure hope so. Just so tired of depending on hope. Dodgers padres are buying alot. Sometimes you have to spend a little. Bumgarner contract is killing us.
schellis 2
Lawlar would be a future dbacks problem. It is far better to block a prospect and have them force a decision (position move/trade) then to play weak players to keep it open and have said prospect stall.
JoeBrady
Bumgarner contract is killing us.
=================================
Just out of curiosity, what is you rotation and closer if you spend big on Bogaerts? So far, I see Gallen (very good), Kelly (bad September), Bumgarner (weak), and Jameson (rookie), and no #5. And I see almost no BP talent except maybe Nantiply.
highheat
Possibly Ryne Nelson for #5 (arguably the #4 ahead of Bumgarner), and Tommy Henry (although he’ll need a lot of improvement). They’re also waiting for Brandon Pfaadt, who might be in contention for a rotation spot out of Spring Training.
Who knows for Closer. Mantiply was by far the best in the bullpen, but I can see them leaning towards Ginkel if they think he’s mostly ironed out.
JackStrawb
@Dbacks44 Shouldn’t, though. It’s 17m a year for a fifth starter. Not what you wanted, clearly, but AZ should be running at least a $150m payroll. Every team carries some dead weight.
Granted it was an obviously bad signing, but losing 2-3 wins a year on a mid-market signing shouldn’t cripple a competent FO.
Pads Fans
Lawlar is going into his age 20 season and just got his first taste of AA in which he looked totally overmatched. By the time he is MLB ready in 2025 it will be time to move Bogaerts to 3B or 2B.
Yankee Clipper
Do they “block” Lawler though? Perhaps they view it as an opportunity to reorganize the IF. For example, Lawler may be able to fill the 3B void to which you referred; but if not, and he’s the SS of the future for the organization, Xander would likely perform better at 2B as he ages. If he moves to 2B when Lawler is ready, they have a top offensive performer in MLB at 2B. That kind of production out of the keystone is invaluable to the lineup.
I really like this move for the D-Backs, who not only have the budget for XB, but also are positioned to reassert their formidable position as contender in their division for a postseason spot.
SneksOnDeck
Even though it is hard to imagine them shelling out that kinda dough, I think he could work really well for the DBacks. They need right handed bats and he could hold down short until Lawlar is ready, then slide over to 3B and maybe eventually 1B/DH down the line. They don’t have a sure thing 3B prospect in the system (I know about De Los Santos, but I am personally wary of his SO/BB and defensive limitations), and I’d rather them put money towards a long term solution than a stopgap like Longoria. If they want to compete they will eventually need to add a FA bat or two, so why not now? If this is the guy they want then they should go for him!
HalosHeavenJJ
The Padres could also trade one of those infielders if they sign Xander.
A'sfaninUK
Why? All 3 play other positions outside of SS except Tatis.
Deleted Userr
Tatis does. Kim does not.
dvmin98
Kim can play 2B and 3B
Deleted Userr
Nope. Kim is a shortstop.
Salvi
Listen to Harambe: Kim is a Shortstop!
Except when he’s not playing shortstop, which is the entire 2021 season, also, 24 games this year, and in Korea where he played another 201 games not at SS.
But, other than that he is STRICTLY a SS.
Deleted Userr
Tatis has played positions besides shortstop and A’sfaninUK says that he hasn’t so I can say the same about Kim.
And at least Kim actually plays shortstop well.
JoeBrady
Theoretically, you can play someone at any position. But almost no one in their right mind is moving Kim’s glove off of SS so Bogaerts can take his place. OTOH, Preller is always the rule that provides the exception.
A'sfaninUK
Kim plays other positions well, Tatis does not.
Deleted Userr
Tatis doesn’t play shortstop well either.
JoeBrady
He can? Seriously? I had no idea! Have you called up the press to tell them?
Of course he can play 2nd. So can I, but you’d never want to see me there. If you want to put him at 2nd, where his defensive value take a big hit, go ahead. But imo, it is stupid.
dvmin98
He is a shortstop, but he can play 2B and 3B. Has done it before and, knowing Kim, he’d be glad to play anywhere the Padres ask him because he’s a team player.
Brew’88
Kim played more 3b overseas than SS
Brew’88
Plus he’s under contract, signed as a utility player.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
You do realize, there’s not even a baseball within several thousand miles of the UK…..
Very suspicious
Deleted Userr
But his bat only profiles at SS and his glove doesn’t necessitate a move off the position.
Brew88
But his bat might necessitate a move off the starting lineup (not that I’m advocating that with Bogaerts)
JudgementDay
They can sign Xander and keep him at SS. The outfield Tatis, Soto, Grisham
3rd Machado, ss-xander, 2nd-Kim, 1st-croneworth, c-Nola
Deleted Userr
Switch Kim and Bogaerts
utah cornelius
Bogaerts says he won’t switch.
Deleted Userr
He’s going to have to eventually. And the Padres already have 2, maybe 3 guys who field the position better than Bogey.
Brew88
Bogaerts has become is a ground-out machine, not sure his bat would justify salary at a position other than SS, not sure his defense (especially at age 30) would justify staying at SS. Which is why they won’t actually sign him.
JoeBrady
There used to be Red Sox fans that wanted to play Papi at 1st, Youkilis at 2nd, and Pedroia at SS, in order to improve an already good RS lineup.
You’re kind of doing the same thing here. You want to play Kim & Cronenworth out of position, so you can get a mediocre glove in at SS. And whatever added offense you get from Bogaerts will be offset by downgrading the offense at 2B and 1B.
If you want more offense, the far simpler approach would be to sign a 1B to 1B, or sign a LF and play Tatis in CF.
Samuel
B I N G O
JoeBrady;
We have to respect how rotisserie league players think MLB works….and Preller is one….although I think the owner sends
him to Bob Melvin’s office when these things come up.
Brew88
@ JoeBrady. Agree with logic and I bet the Padres do too – I don’t believe the Pads are actually considering doing that (at least, there’s no meat/evidence from the media speculation to suggest they sign Bogaerts and initiate such a reshuffle). If Bogaerts won’t budge off of SS, they won’t sign him. And because Bogaerts’ bat is in decline (ground-ball rate sky high), why sign him even if he’s willing to play another position? Preller seems to be in the head of fans, even more so the paid pundits, who link him now to every FA, all the time.
Pads Fans
Or they can sign Bogaerts and play him at 2B and move Cronenworth to 1B. Kim is the best defensive shortstop they have.
Not sure how the batting lineup would shake out, but any lineup with Tatis, Machado, Soto, Bogaerts, and Cronenworth in it is going to be powerful. Carrying defensive wizards Kim and Grisham with their mediocre to bad bats becomes much easier at that point.
I have serious doubts that they will sign Bogaerts or any of the “Big Four” because that would put them over the 2nd tier of the CBT without addressing any of their other needs. Specifically a #4-5 starter, 1B, and a DH.
LF or CF Tatis, CF Grisham, RF Soto, 3B MAchado, SS Kim, 2B Cronenworth, sign a 1B and DH. That is the path that seems most likely..
Brew’88
I’d rather have Kim, Tatis or even Cronzo at SS than poor-fielding Bogaerts. They won’t sign Bogey unless another present starter in the infield is traded (Cronenworth or Kim) and that would be an unlikely move. So I accept that there is little reality to this rumor.
Deleted Userr
Preller does stuff that makes no sense all the time is the only reason I think this might happen.
Brew88
@ harambe. Sure ok. Maybe he’ll sign Judge and have him play 1B and catch Darvish
Terry B
Sadres!! NOT!!
DCartrow
As long as the Snakes keep Josh ROJAS at third base!!
I love the way that Arizona announcer exclaims his name!
James Midway
Preller was checking in. As a Padre fan I just don’t see this happening. Preller also really loves the draft. He would have to give up picks/pool money to sign him to a large contract. It makes sense to check in on him, but there is no chance they are going to sign him.
Brew88
@ Midway. Plus, EVERY team in the league has checked in on him. But none as predisposed to be in the heads of pundits quite like the Pads, and I guess that’s why we’re chatting ’bout it
Deleted Userr
Y tho?
Ghost Pepper
I guessed Trea Turner in the contest for the Snakes but if it’s X , I’ll gladly take the “L”.
BlueSkies_LA
Why does this article say the Dodgers could turn to another SS option “if Turner walks,” when he already has?
acell10
the Dodgers are so weird to me. They have an aversion to signing their own free agents but will gladly bring in everyone else’s….
BlueSkies_LA
I don’t see any such aversion. In recent years they’ve allowed Kershaw, J. Turner, and Chris Taylor to reach free agency and resigned them (Kershaw and Turner, twice). So they do sign back their own free agents. They don’t seem to be in pursuit of T. Turner, which as a fan is a huge disappointment. I believe it has to do with them planning to duck under the CBT threshold this year.
acell10
Corey Seager and Scherzer they let walk and it seems like Turner will join them as well too. In the past they let Grienke go and more recently Kanley Janson although they did sign him to an extension before. It just seems weird that they let those guys walk but will spend a ton of money to bring in players like Mookie Betts (although in a trade) and Freddie Freeman and are apparently in on Judge.
.
BlueSkies, what are they standing to gain from ducking under it as you say? Save $$ for the sake of saving it and not go after whom you really want? I hope they don’t think they can’t just limp into the World Series on charm and good looks.
BlueSkies_LA
When they traded for T. Turner is was pretty clear that Seager wasn’t coming back. Scherzer was a rental, so no surprise there. Not resigning Grienke was a mistake IMO. They made him an offer, but he took a slightly better one with the D’backs. Seems he believed that Arizona had a plan to compete, so that was a mistake on his part I guess. Every move you see the Dodgers make is a function of Andy Friedman’s grand plan. I don’t think it’s quite as grand as others do, but maybe that’s for another discussion.
.
Makes sense BlueSkies. I figure this isn’t the year for them to mess around and pinch pennies. Fans are already out for blood. Trea Turner was a big part of the team last year and I really hope they get him again. Greinke left too early indeed. I thinl he has his most dominant seasons ever with the Dodgers.
BlueSkies_LA
It’s all about the bucks in the end, and a CBT reset will save them a lot of them. It’s coming sooner or later, and I have a feeling it’s going to be the former. Until the Miller signing (oh joy) they’d done nothing but subtract.
Deleted Userr
No one thought the Diamondbacks had a plan to compete. Greinke wanted the most money and the Dodgers refused to budge on that 6th year. The same way the White Sox wouldn’t budge on years 9 and 10 for Manny Machado.
Everyone including you thought it was a foregone conclusion that Scherzer would sign an extension when the Dodgers traded for him.
Dodgers did make an effort to keep Seager even after they traded for Turner but not a $325m effort.
BlueSkies_LA
Including me? Ha-hah. No. I never said such a thing because I never believed such a thing or even wanted it. But thank you for saving me from having to state my own opinion.
Anyhoo… Sure Grienke went for the money, but he also made noises at the time that he was impressed by the steps the D’backs were taking. And they were at least on the margins of being competitive for awhile.
.
Not you and not me either BlueSkies….But there are others.
.
I don’t even know or think we are talking about or referring to the same thing haha. Which is ok too. Not much action today anyway. Hope the Dodgers make a move soon. For prosperity sake.
Deleted Userr
“I agree this is weak as a explanation in general, but the difference in this case is Scherzer seemingly won’t waive his no-trade unless he gets an extension.”
“Not really, if you read what he said. As usual he’s trying to play both sides of the street. We don’t need to be fooled by that. He made it clear he’ll be looking for something more for his client than a straight rental trade, or his name isn’t Scott Boras, and last I checked, it still was.”
“Trying to think of another “contractual inducement” that makes sense for Scherzer other than an extension, and all I can come up with is a pony. Max really wants a pony. As for an extension, it isn’t a matter of need, it’s a matter of want. It would go well with the pony.”
“Because otherwise he’s liable to be traded to a non-contender?
If it isn’t an extension or a player option, I’m still going with the pony until I hear some better ideas.” -BlueSkies_LA
mlbtraderumors.com/2021/07/max-scherzer-trade-rumo…
Deleted Userr
“I agree this is weak as a explanation in general, but the difference in this case is Scherzer seemingly won’t waive his no-trade unless he gets an extension.”
“Not really, if you read what he said. As usual he’s trying to play both sides of the street. We don’t need to be fooled by that. He made it clear he’ll be looking for something more for his client than a straight rental trade, or his name isn’t Scott Boras, and last I checked, it still was.”
“Trying to think of another “contractual inducement” that makes sense for Scherzer other than an extension, and all I can come up with is a pony. Max really wants a pony. As for an extension, it isn’t a matter of need, it’s a matter of want. It would go well with the pony.”
“Because otherwise he’s liable to be traded to a non-contender?
If it isn’t an extension or a player option, I’m still going with the pony until I hear some better ideas.” -BlueSkies_LA
BlueSkies_LA
What a pointless (and somewhat creepy) exercise. Not once do you find me saying that I thought the Dodgers should or would extend him. And do you know why you can’t find it? Three guesses, the first two don’t count.
.
BlueSkies are you replying to me? I’m pretty lost.
acell10
Again if they traded for turner with the intention of him replacing Seager why are they turning around and letting him walk a year and a half later? because of Lux? They gave up a lot to get Scherzer and Turner. Again it’s kind of a weird way to go about building your dream.
Deleted Userr
They don’t get to “let” or “not let” Turner do anything. They traded for Turner and Scherzer because they wanted to win a championship during a season that wasn’t shortened by a global pandemic.
acell10
my point was that if they saw Turner as a replacement for Seager they should have made at least some kind of effort to sign him long term which they didn’t but they seem pretty content to hand out long term contracts to free agents from other teams.
Deleted Userr
Who says they didn’t?
Samuel
acell10;
Maybe they saw Turner as an affordable and better then Seager replacement for Seager in 2022. And he got Schurzer to run out of gas.
Mr. Friedman knew the contract Turner’s agent would be looking for.
He traded a quality young starter and a quality young catcher that the Nationals appear to be ruining (both). He has plenty of starting pitching prospects and his #1 prospect is a catcher that may find it hard to make the ML roster as the Dodgers have 2 quality catchers.
l9ydodger
I think a part of the reason Grienke left had something to do with Yasiel Puig. He didn’t care to much for Puig’s antics.
Padres2019ha
Ryan keeps a ledger dude THIS IS HIS LIFE
Padres2019ha
Harambe is the ultimate creeper.
Padres2019ha
Hot take!
acell10
the point really has excepted you Hamrambe hasn’t it
TheDogDays
They simply see those guys as a better fit— long term … and they’re right. It’s not a lack of loyalty, it’s business.
acell10
I’m not suggesting it’s a lack of loyalty either. again lost you too
TheDogDays
Well what’s your point? This is two different topics that you can’t seem to make one.
Fooque2
Trea = Phils
sirbradford
Perfect add for the D-backs. Xander can play SS until Lawlar comes up, then slide over to 3rd. I don’t care what Boras claims for his clients, this was the man telling everyone that Chris Davis could play a capable outfield. Let him play SS for the next year and then hand the reins to Lawlar. Please Kendrick, the D-backs need this type of move for any real hope. Signing Xander could also entice other real FA’s to your team.
scottaz
I don’t believe for a moment that the Dbacks are sincerely interested in spending that kind of money on Bogaerts or any top flight SS. They have Jordan Lawler in the minors, a recent #1 pick (a steal at the #6 overall pick), who is less than 2 years away, so signing a SS for big money and multiple years makes no sense. Spend that big money on a closer and/or a 3b.
I think the Dbacks are just sending a signal to the other teams and FA players that they have money to spend this off-season.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
“Tatis was expected to be the franchise shortstop after a brilliant start to his career earned him a $340MM extension, but he’s now under consideration for a move to second base or the outfield after missing all of 2022 due to injury and a performance-enhancing drug ban. ”
PED violations should turn guaranteed contracts into non guaranteed contracts.
utah cornelius
That would do it.
Pads Fans
2nd offense, absolutely. 1st offense? No. Too many ways that doing something “legal” can turn into a positive test. Tainted supplements are common. Many everyday medicines contain precursors or substances that can be used to cover up PED usage which makes them illegal. Player is still responsible, but an 80 game suspension with the corresponding loss of income is enough. Being stupid once should not cost you your contract.
Then the question becomes does the player become a free agent? Because if he does, that penalizes the team that signed him to that contract. That is not fair to the team.
A 2 year suspension on the 2nd positive with a suspended contract and loss of 1-2 years of service time, enough to take them back to team control for at least 1 season, would disincentivize PED use.
Tatis is not moving to 2B. If he stays in the infield, it will be at SS. Having been away a full year, he is most likely going to split time between the OF, SS, and DH.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
I didn’t say void the contract and make them free agents.
Cuz, yeah, none of the teams in MLB care. Some other team will sign him, maybe for more money, even.
But, if a PED bust turned your iron clad guaranteed MLB contract into an NFL style non-guaranteed contract….for the duration of the contract….that’s an actual deterrent.
So, if the juicer comes back and a year or two later, he can’t play without PED’s, they can cut him and not pay a fraud.
Pads Fans
There are only guaranteed contracts and free agency in MLB. That won’t change. So no sense in talking about that since its not a possibility.
It hasn’t turned into a deterrent in the NFL, so that argument is out the window.
Typically the reason players juice is to GET a contract or for pride, trying to prolong their high performance later in their career. In Tatis’ case it was neither. It was stupidity.
In fact, Tatis was the only player I can find that was ever popped in the first or 2nd year of a long term contract.
Next.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
“It hasn’t turned into a deterrent in the NFL, so that argument is out the window.”
NFL players do not have guaranteed contracts to lose, so yeah…losing something they do not have is not a deterrent.
“Typically the reason players juice is to GET a contract…”
And under the current system you defend, said player gets to keep every dime. So, rather than a deterrent, it is a STRONG incentive to cheat.
Cheat long enough to get the deal and your fraud will be rewarded and you get to keep your spoils.
It’s a terrible system if you actually want to get PED’s out of the game, which MLB does not.
Pads Fans
#1 – I didn’t defend it. Just said you have not shown a way that is possible to increase the deterrent. I also called for increasing the penalty to 2 years on the 2nd offense.
#2 – The players don’t keep every cent. They lose all income during the suspension. If it was a 2 year suspension for a 2nd offense that is a huge chunk of change. For most players it would be the majority or all of their contract.
Since Tatis is the only player caught using PED in the beginning of a long term contract even trying to say that keeping that long term deal after the suspension is an incentive to cheat is not a defend-able argument.
A better argument is that the owners were idiots to lock the players out because there was NO testing during the lockout and some fringe players might have taken advantage to keep themselves in the majors. Not a huge loss in money for a team in those cases though and most probably were trying to earn a contract period, they didn’t already have one.
#3 – MLB has one of the most stringent testing systems in sports. Certainly more stringent than the NFL and other US based sports. Its the only sport that has permanently banned players for PED. If as you say its a “terrible system if you actually want to get PED’s out of the game”, what does that say about the other sports?
Deleted Userr
@Pads Fans Dude no one listens to you just stick to one account.
Padres2019ha
Hahahaha Just stop Ryan, you are the only PROVEN FRAUD here called out by @SteveAdams.
Why do you keep being a weirdo hypocrite?
Deleted Userr
LOL
MLB-1971
Lol. I am a Red Sox fan of 52 years, but I am being to see that many of the Red Sox fans have the same low IQ as the Yankee fans (very, very low). Lmao
utah cornelius
There are many Yankees fans on these boards. I would not say their IQ is low. That stereotype is just that: a stereotype. If you pay attention, for example, they rarely make any trade proposals at all, let alone bad trade proposals. 99% of all trade proposals come from other fans, including the bad proposals. And I say all of this as a non-Yankee fan. I just like to set the record straight, having grown up with friends who are Yankee fans. They are neither obnoxious nor low IQ. Those are stereotypes perpetuated by people with poor observation skills and/or biases.
TheDogDays
Well-said. Stereotyping fans based on what team they happen to root for is absurd. It’s a lazy labeling system.
After all, every fan base has crazy people.
Gwynning
Jonny Utah, I might suggest that you just never saw the ridiculous Gleyber-Frazier-Hicks-Sanchez amalgamations that permeated this site… and that’s OK. ALL team’s fans have ridiculous subsections that show their idiocy often if you just hang out long enough!
JoeBrady
How can you have forgotten Andujar? To be honest, I haven’t seen those posts in a couple of years, but for a while, this place was rancid with NYY fan proposals of 4-5 borderline++ prospects for Trout, etc.
And you’d have thought Dominguez was one step away from playing CF for the Yankees.
utah cornelius
Gwynning: The Gleyber-Frazier-Hicks-Sanchez amalgamations never “permeated” this site. There were a few of them, by a few posters. And they mainly had to do with Frazier and Andujar. I remember them. They were no more numerous than other bad trade proposals being made at the time, they were simply more readily ridiculed. Because of the stereotype.
TheDogDays
As a Yankee fan, I was excited about those guys too. Who wouldn’t have been?
I didn’t realize Yankee fans were the only ones to be excited by overhyped prospects.
Pads Fans
L.M.F.A.O. Yankees fans have the reputation of being the worst because the most vociferous of them on here have consistently shown they are. Hands down.
With a few notable exceptions they have shown themselves to be arrogant and entitled as if they personally won those titles in the 20th century and deserve to have the Yankees win it all every year, absolutely do make trade proposals, consistently overvalue their prospects and trade chips, and generally are obnoxious.
Low IQ is for another discussion and the fact that they are often obnoxious and make bad trade proposals does not automatically mean they are low IQ.
utah cornelius
Pads Fan: you simply are not talking about the Yankee fans on this site. I know. I read them every day. There is only one arrogant Yankee poster, AllRise99. Clipper, Joe Says, etc. are all less obnoxious than you are. And they virtually never make trade proposals. I dare you to find me five of them. It will probably take all offseason and maybe one or two are bad.
Pads Fans
Yes. Yes I am. Been on this site for 15 years now. Watched so many of you come and go.
I know you are new and that is why there is an excuse for your post. The others that have been around at least a couple years have already posted a half dozen or so of the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of posts each year from Yankees fans that were either trade proposals, entitlement, or just plain obnoxious.
Those notable exceptions to that rule that you mentioned actually prove my point. They are the EXCEPTIONS.
Come back when you have been here 4-5 years and lets revisit this subject.
Brew’88
Or is he new…..?
Samuel
JC#1;
I had to mute almost all Red Sox posters and will stay off any article about them. No difference than Yankee fans – and I muted dozens on them over a year ago. They all just twist everything expecting Dad to buy them a few new shiny toys every year because the other kids have some. And they don’t want to play with the shiny toys he bought for them previously. They complain about them too…..Dad’s so dumb he spent so much money on garbage.
Just whiners. Know nothing about baseball.
Be a pleasure to continue to read you…and a few others.
JackStrawb
@Samuel It seems like this site doesn’t have the software to handle muted commenters. If someone is muted it bounces you up to the article heading, and you have to hit “End” on your keyboard to rocket to the bottom of the web page and click “load comment” to get to the next comment you haven’t seen yet.
Weird. Inept, really.
Samuel
JackStrawb;
?
Been working fine for me for over a year.
You might want to email them.
JackStrawb
@Samuel Thanks, Samuel
TheDogDays
If you’re on a sports chat site, and muted DOZENS of fans, then you shouldn’t be here.
You’re better off talking baseball to yourself in your bathroom, so nobody can disagree.
(Great, now I’ve been blocked)
Samuel
TheDogDays;
Actually, I’ve muted over 200….so far.
Been watching MLB for over half a century. Don’t need to read kids that think MLB is rotisserie league, have no idea what a cut-off man is for, why managers are needed and what they do, how owners just sit around and watch the money fall into their pockets, and how 30-plus year-old players with recent injury history “deserve” to “get paid”.
See, I watch a lot of games each year on MLB.TV, and I like to watch good teams play smart baseball. Most importantly, I don’t think following MLB shouldn’t be about how much money the celebriti….err, players get, I think it’s about the TEAMS competing to win…..and how players on the team do their parts.
You see many posts on here about that?
Samuel
TheDogDays;
Look below – a kid wants to trade Kim for Othani.
And he’s one of the good ones.
LOL
TheDogDays
Not really.
I’m a baseball purist myself (except for the DH) but I don’t want to tell others how they should enjoy the sport. The sport is struggling partly, because of the snobbery.
I’m lucky, I grew up in a baseball family, but when I was young…. I didn’t know everything either. I’d prefer to give those people a break.
JackStrawb
@TheDogDays “If you’re on a sports chat site” and comment on someone else’s muting habits, you’re better off pretending elsewhere that anyone’s listening to you.
Thanks,
The Internet
TheDogDays
Well he did…. Since he responded lol
JackStrawb
@Samuel Well said. Muting isn’t ‘punishment,’ but rather like being at a party and just steering away from loudmouths.
TheDogDays
Samuel;
He just blocked me because I responded to you.
Lol I love people.
BaseballisLife
On any public forum like this one there are large groups of trolls. They add nothing to the conversation. In fact, they detract from it.
There is no reason to put yourself through reading their comments. Just mute them and move on so you have time for the many intelligent people commenting about baseball here.
TheDogDays
Agreed. But the issue is the point of jumping on a baseball site is to…. Talk about baseball.
If people don’t want to hear other opinions, then they shouldn’t be involved. IMHO
RunDMC
D-backs get Swanson: 6/$180M — Shelby Miller signs a ML deal with rivals: LAD for $1.5M
Hired Gun 23
Closers can be made. I think the Padres are just kicking the tires, no harm in that. Do you think bringing back Drury and Voit would be wise and cost efficient? So then they could spend on pitching…what say you?
rememberthecoop
Anthony, I refuse to believe that the Cubs will make a big splash. By that I mean, sure, if the market falls apart, and they can get a guy on a five-year deal, then yeah they’re interested. But I think 6 is the minimum, and likely 7 years for X (and any of the other 3 SS’s). I’ll
believe the Cubs are serious when I see it. Tom Ricketts has won his title so he feels now is the time to rake in the cash. And he has a willing lieutenant in Jed Hoyer who says and does all the right things. At least the right things to keep his boss happy, that is. The fans, on the other hand…well, not so much. But the Wrigley Field faithful will show up anyway, so what is the motivation to spend like 2016?
rondon
In ’14 they signed Lester and Ross, ’15 Zobrist, Lackey and ’16 Jhey. At the same time they were bringing the kids along. Now obviously, the Heyward signing didn’t work out, but they have an opportunity to follow a similar path of spending and growth.. I could totally see them signing a big ticket SS this season and a Senga (?) And a couple of short term guys like Bellinger (who might become long term), while they start working the young guys in. Next year’s FA class isn’t all that great so it makes sense to make the SS move now… We’ll see..
Bobby smac9
Xander won’t entertain a position switch. Sign him to a six+ year deal and in a few years, he’ll be reluctant to move off shortstop once again. He’s one heck of a hitter, but not one heck of a shortstop. Adequate? you bet. short term answer.
Deleted Userr
That’s why I don’t want the Padres to sign him.
Padres2019ha
When did you talk to Xander and get his answer? Unless you were in the room where it happened then please stop acting like you know anything. Thx!
Deleted Userr
Bobby smac9 is the one that said Bogey won’t entertain a position switch so talk to him.
Bobby smac9
I read the post.
all in the suit that you wear
Bogaerts has never said he is willing to move off SS now or sometime down the road that I am aware of. Maybe he will change his tune after getting paid like an elite SS.
spitball
Chaim Bloom needs to not be walking around in public this year! Stay behind the glass somewhere, or have security people accompanying him. Many people are ready to take a swing at him! Looking forward to spring training. At this point no decent free agents will be willing to come to Boston. Bloom needs to GO! Don’t buy tickets! Don’t watch games! Don’t buy merchandise! Money is the only thing that will get their attention.
Soxfanforever
Unless they get some front line starting pitching, next season will be a repeat of 2022. I guess they have too many contracts eating away at the 233 million payroll. Let’s hope they spend some of the money coming off the books this year for pitching. They are not looking at top tier free agent pitchers this year. Could be a rough hot stove environment
extreme113
How’d that Trea Turner fella workout after Preller traded him away?
Pads Fans
Hindsight is 20-20. Less than 20% of 1st round draft picks become a MLB regular that puts up a bWAR over 2. Less than 10% become stars that post consistent 4+ WAR seasons. 80% flame out.
Turner had just been drafted in 2014. That year there were 41 players drafted in the 1st round including 12 in front of Turner. 3 have averaged 4 WAR in the majors. #1, #2, #11, and #12 never even played in the majors.
The previous draft 2 players out of 39 drafted in the 1st round turned into 4+ WAR players. Aaron Judge who was pick #32 and Kris Bryant who was pick #2. 37 did not. Only 1 other player has averaged over 2 WAR in his career, Tim Anderson.
So are you saying you can tell which ones will turn into star players? A crystal ball of some sort?
Nope? Neither can anyone. They draft them, work with them, and hope. For every Turner there are 15 schmoes that never amount to anything.
In retrospect it was a bad trade, but at the time many writers were praising the Padres for going for it.
msqboxer
Both San Diego and Arizona are better landing spots for the SS’s than the Cubs. Padres are built to win, DIamondbacks are closer than the Cubs and the prospects are ready to play, not to mention both places are better places to live. I think the Cubs get shut out of FA because of the way they treated the Rizzo, Schwarber, Baez and now Contreras…
99socalfrc
1B is one of the easiest positions to find production for value. The Padres even after Eric Hosmer still don’t seem to get it. Why would you go spend $200m on a shortstop, push Cronenworth off of second base (where his production is all star level) to put him at 1B where his production is middle of the road at best.
If they want to spend money they should’ve gotten Abreu, given that he is signed, I don’t really see the problem with resigning Josh Bell. Disciplined hitter who doesn’t strikeout and offers some pop to put in the lineup with Tatis, Soto & Machado. What’s wrong with that?
But of course it’s Preller we are talking about so it makes sense that a team who needs corner outfielders and a 1B is trying to spend $200m on a shortstop……
Deleted Userr
Bell sucked in San Diego
99socalfrc
A whopping 210 plate appearances, but sure, throw out his entire body of work……
Cronenworth hit .239 with an OPS+ of 111. His numbers were worse than Eric Hosmer. Yet the plan is to put Cronenworth and his .390 slugging at 1b??? I’m sorry but the idea is ridiculous.
I love Cronenworth but his numbers since 2020 are trending the wrong way. I’d certainly give him time to right the ship, but putting him at 1B given the options out there is silly.
Deleted Userr
You clearly don’t love Cronenworth, he WILL right the ship and no, he should not be playing 1st base. He’s more valuable up the middle and his defense sure hasn’t necessitated such a move.
Brew88
Agree, Cronenworth should remain at 2B. So you’re Melvin and it’s May day, 2023..Tatis at 1B or OF or SS? I say OF (50%), DH (20%), SS (30% – rest Kim against tough RP starters).
Pads Fans
Josh Bell did not like playing in San Diego. He basically gave up and hit .192/.316/.271/.587 and a 75 OPS+. Why would the Padres want him back?
99socalfrc
LOL did he tell you that? That he didn’t like it there so he was giving up?
Sounds just like what a pro ball player would do at the end of a contract year.
Get a clue.
Pads Fans
He said years before the trade that he didn’t like the city. He was a Pirate then.
His play this season said everything else. His offense went in the toilet. His defense declined precipitously as well.
His bat speed fell an astounding 5 mph and his exit velocity matched that. When he swung, he wasn’t swinging as hard. Was he injured? Nope. So what was the explanation?
He swung at 6% less pitches including 4% less in the zone. His contact fell 5%. Swinging strikes increased 1.2% and strikes looking increased 4%.
When he did make contact he beat the ball into the ground. His ground balls increased 10% while his hard hit balls fell 4%.
The result was his OPS+ went from 153 in Washington to 75 in SD.
His strength and ability to hit the ball didn’t change that drastically overnight. His head was the only thing that changed.
His attitude on defense was even worse. His range fell by 12.5%. He wasn’t crippled. If it was hit to him, he caught the ball. Otherwise, he just wasn’t even trying to get to the ball. Those don’t show up as errors, because he didn’t come close to making a play on the ball. They just show up in the box score as singles.
His DRS went from a +1 for the Nats to a -2 for the Padres in 1/6th the chances. His OAA went from 0, exactly league average for a 1B, to -4 in 1/6th the innings played. That is hard to do. You have to be really bad to do that.
Nowhere was his lack of effort as a Padre more telling than in scoops. Picking balls out of the dirt. In Washington he picked 10 of 16 errant throws in the dirt. In San Diego he picked 1 of 9. Did the baseball change? Is the dirt a different color? No! He simple didn’t care and it showed.
I have not only a clue, I have the benefit of watching all the Padres games and the stats that show that what my eye saw was really happening.
Bell gave up. He stopped doing what made him worth trading for. That you don’t see that is beyond my ability to fix, but it was obvious from watching him play and the stats prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.
BaseballisLife
Bell didn’t say that he didn’t like the city, he said he didn’t like the ballpark.
Brew88
It doesn’t matter if he likes the city or team or not. His FA asking price might not be worth his level of play especially on defence, and the Pads will consider that.
san888
Peter Gammons, are we really gonna listen to this fossil. I’m getting tired of these baseball insiders that keep telling us nothing. I’m just gonna wait and see what happens before I go ballistic.
Brew’88
Great take!
hellsbells51
Forget Bogaerts! Keep Tatis happy at SS (but split time at DH to help in recovery), everyone talks about his errors…what people never talk about is his athleticism. He prevents so many hits jumping, diving and closing gaps with his speed and size that Kim wasn’t able to make. I didn’t miss watching one game last season and there were many times I saw hits just out of reach for Kim that Tatis would have prevented. Kim is a great defensive SS, but he’d be great as a 2B as well. Most of Tatis’ errors came from throwing rocket one hoppers to Hosmer who couldn’t complete the catch. With Cronenworth at 1B, he is shorter and can dig out those one hoppers easier. Plus, with the shift ban having Kim and Cronenworth on one side and Tatis and Machado on the other is a great answer to not having the shift. Instead of focusing on Bogaerts, focus everything on signing Senga (back up option Bassitt) then re-sign Drury or Bell (1B/DH) and Profar (LF). Once they secure those big needs, pick up veteran depth on the bench and a RP or two.
Samuel
hellsbells51;
Tatis is a low Baseball-IQ player that keeps injuring himself.
It appears that Padres management think he’s less danger to himself in the OF…..but they’re going to have to wrap him in padding because he’ll just run into the walls.
Deleted Userr
Kim is a better defensive SS than Tatis. Full stop. If he is starting it needs to be at shortstop and at shortstop ONLY. Tatis can move to 2B. If he can play shortstop he can play 2nd base. With the elimination of the shift, having a 2B with Tatis’ range would be huge for the Padres. Plus it will be easier for Tatis to make the throw from 2nd base than from shortstop. And Tatis’ errors were not Hosmer’s fault. If they were then Kim would have made a bunch of throwing errors too. He also had to throw to Hosmer. And to top it all off Tatis got busted for roids so “keeping him happy” is out the window, He needs to learn to be happy and magnanimous no matter where they tell him to play.
Padres2019ha
Padres should make a trade Ryan!
Wanna hear my proposal?! LOLZ
Brew88
I have a problem with Kim starting over Cronenworth. And I have problem with Cronenworth at 1B (subpar 1B bat). So why not Tatis at 1B? Or why not improve team with a FA 1B signing (will be necessary anyway). Which brings us back to Tatis, where he plays, and the dominos that fall. CF/DH/sprinkling of SS seems most reasonable to me in 2023. Leave Kim at SS at least against most LH pitchers.
The team needs to sign 1B, SP and OF pieces, and rumors of those moves should be taken more seriously than those for SSs, though Preller does have a thing for SSs
JackStrawb
Kim is at least as good a SS as Tatis. Statcast, fangraphs, and Baseball-reference agree with me.
Errors don’t matter much, clearly, given how the great SS’s will make more errors simply because they get a glove on more balls, but a lot of errors don’t make Tatis a great SS.
Add in how you lose nothing with Kim at SS to the increased likelihood of injury to Tatis if he plays there, throw-in the defensive cost of changing personnel in the middle of your double play combo, and Tatis should live in the OF now.
jakec77
Why? Look at what the Yankees just paid to keep Rizzo, who had a similar OPS to Bogaerts.
He got far less than what Bogaerts will end up with, in large part because of their respective positions- so why spend the extra premium on a short stop just to get first base covered?
chrcritter
really don’t see the Padres actually offering in the same neighborhood as teams who actually need SS
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Everyone wants Bogaerts except the Red Sox.
all in the suit that you wear
Apparently no one wants Bogaerts at his current asking price.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Doesn’t surprise me. These players are so spoiled these days.
JackStrawb
Do we know if the Padres have the sense to leave Kim at SS?
Hard to see Junior surviving most of a season at SS. Besides, why punish a guy who helped you in favor of the guy who caused your biggest problems?
Thec’s
John Henry, who must be the smartest owner out there, is really tearing it up! Betts, Bogarts and Deavers would have been a helluva core to build around for years! Do the Sox need to get younger? Absolutely but you need to keep your home grown talent together! I had been showing patients after the Betts trade but there is no excuses for treating Bogarts and Deavers! What is forcing these guys to leave is the low balling these players when they are younger instead of locking them up long term and treating them fair like most of these teams are doing! Keep it up John Henry you will just blame Bloom for the failures! Maybe what Henry ought to do is return to the Marlins!
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Luckily, Fenway learned from their mistakes with the Red Sox and let my Penguins resign all of our star players.
Thanks to the Sox for being the canaries in the coal mine.
AL34
I do not get the atmosphere they encourage with lowballing their players then trading them off for prospects. The Betts trade was unforgivable
Padres2019ha
Padres should see what they could get for Kim. If it gets us Ohtani and we can sign Boegarts for only money and a draft pick then by all means that’s two upgrayyeds
Deleted Userr
lol
Padres2019ha
Kim plus ya ape. Hey have you ever been to Cinci zoo? Doubt youve ever left yo mamas garage
Deleted Userr
lol
Michael Macaulay-Birks
I thought that I read that they were moving Tatis to centerfield
hellsbells51
Samuel/Harambe – I get ownership and coaching staff wanting him to play in the OF to limit injury, but did you watch Tatis when he got moved to the OF in 2021? He was bored, he wasn’t himself and it showed. Yeah, he needs to man up be a team player and play where we need him, but we signed this kid for over a decade. He may be fragile, but you also want him happy. Imagine your job moving you where they think you best fit, but you love your current role…there’s a good chance you wouldn’t be happy with it. Kim is awesome, I love him getting playing time and love his defense, but he isn’t as good running down bloop fly balls over his head, snagging line drives over his head, diving and stretching out for those out-of-reach ground balls, throwing rockets to 1B gunning down runners like Tatis can. Kim will make 99% of your average plays, where Tatis might make 95%, but it’s those other tougher plays that require elite athleticism, strength, size and speed where Tatis has the edge IMO. I know Hosmer wasn’t to blame for all of Tatis’ errant throws, but Tatis got better towards the end of the year in 2021.
Deleted Userr
Kim is a better defensive shortstop than Tatis in all respects.
And the first half of your comment just sounds like a long-winded way of saying “Fernando Tatis Jr. is an issue in the Padres clubhouse.”
AL34
Gammons is saying that Boggarts has severed ties with the Red Sox which is bad. I hope the story is BS but when you cannot retain your own home grown players like Betts and Boggarts how are you going to attract good free agents in the future. Is the plan here to give one year contracts on the cheaper side like Wacha and Hill (43 years old) ? Do you sign injured players like Paxton who rehabbed the whole year and hope he pitches this year? You trade Mookie Betts for Verdugo (could have been had in a trade) who is okay and Jeter Downs who is struggling with his hitting and a backup catcher in Connor Wong so the Dodgers take David Price’s contract off your hands? You sign Story who is in a hitting decline for the last 3 years prior to signing long term when you could have given that money to keep Boggarts? None of the roomies lolled awe inspiring this year in a wasted year in Boston. We could beat good teams this year. What did Toronto beat us in 16 of 19 games this year. I just do not get the direction of this team with Bloom.
This one belongs to the Reds
Sounds like the Padres are tired of Tatis and his selfish act.
AL34
Gammons is saying that Boggarts has severed ties with the Red Sox which is bad. I hope the story is BS but when you cannot retain your own home grown players like Betts and Boggarts how are you going to attract good free agents in the future. Is the plan here to give one year contracts on the cheaper side like Wacha and Hill (43 years old) ? Do you sign injured players like Paxton who rehabbed the whole year and hope he pitches this year? You trade Mookie Betts for Verdugo (could have been had in a trade) who is okay and Jeter Downs who is struggling with his hitting and a backup catcher in Connor Wong so the Dodgers take David Price’s contract off your hands? You sign Story who has been in a hitting decline for the last 3 years prior to signing long term when you could have given that money to keep Boggarts? None of the rookies looked awe inspiring this year in a wasted year in Boston. We could not beat good teams this year. What did Toronto beat us in 16 of 19 games this year. I just do not get the direction of this team with Bloom.
kingbum
I think the Red Sox have eyes on Carlos Correa anyway. I think that’s their target and the backup would be to move Story back to SS and find a 2nd baseman. Honestly though, the team needs to be rebuilt centered on pitching first. That means getting an Ace and putting Whitlock back in the closer role to stay. Have Houck as your 8th inning guy and dump the rest of the bullpen. Keep Bello up all year and let him find himself in the rotation. I’d like to see if the team could convince Verlander to come on a 1 or 2 year deal. He’s old but he did just win a CY Young and a short deal allows you not to get killed by taking a chance.
BaseballisLife
Gammons didn’t say Bogaerts was not returning or that Bogaert or his agent said he wasn’t returning.
He said that 3 FO personnel from teams NOT named the Red Sox said they THOUGHT Bogaerts would not return to Boston.
Two totally different things there.
AL34
Not from what I read but it is not looking good because Bloom “Jerked” him around before last season by “lowballing”him plus he should have been negotiating with him after the season ended which I am guessing he did not and has no intention of signing him at all. I don’t Bloom doing anything big this off-season but I do hope I am wrong. If this team does not compete well this upcoming season, it will be his last.
BaseballisLife
As far as the Padres go, here is a quote.
“Throughout A.J. Preller’s eight years as Padres general manager, he has habitually checked in on most of the available prominent players. Sometimes, he does so regardless of whether San Diego has genuine interest. On occasion, perhaps, the tactic is used as a decoy. So, it wasn’t necessarily a surprise last week when the New York Post linked the Padres to free-agent shortstop Xander Bogaerts, whose agent, Scott Boras, could be after a contract in the neighborhood of $200 million.”
Padres have no real interest in Bogaerts.
Brew’88
Exactly!
Blue Dude
The Padres must be worried about Tatis….. But , I believe they are just trying to drive the price up for the Dodgers.
The Diamondbacks are more believable, but Bogaerts isn’t trying to go with an organization that’s rebuilding with youth. Money Talks BS Walks type of deal.
He signs with a contender that is ready to win now.
AL34
I have been a Red Sox fan since the 1970s and I have seen them loose good players over the years when they should have been signed Carlton Fisk, Fred Lynn, Rick Burleson back in 1981. They lost Johnny Damon in 2006 and they should not have lost him. Coco Crisp who they traded for was no way near the caliber of player Johnny Damon was. There are others but Mookie Betts should have been signed instead they traded him for one descent player Verdugo and two prospects who are struggling. They hinged that trade to take David Price’s contract. They could have offered Xander Boggarts a better contract earlier this year when they had him under contract. Now they let him go free agent where even if they do attempt to sign it is going to cost a lot more than earlier this season. In addition he is free to negotiate with all the other teams and that will drive up the price as well. I do not feel confident in any way on that. Now Devers is a free agent at the end of this season, are they going to let him go free agent or trade him? This is our own homegrown talent that we know about and are considered a core and you build around them. I just don’t get it whether it is Bloom or John Henry. Is this another rebuild ? Are the rookies/prospects going to be brought up from the farm? Did any of them produce earth shattering results this year on a team that could not beat good teams and finished last in the division. We have a lot of holes to fill here including a DH a left fielder, a centerfielder, relief pitchers plural, two solid starting pitchers, and a shortstop if Boggarts is resigned. Does anyone realistically think Bloom is up to the mess he created here? I don’t but I hope I am wrong!