Major League Baseball has opened an investigation into the Yankees and Mets to determine if their owners improperly communicated about the free agency of AL MVP favorite Aaron Judge, reports Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic.
The investigation is rooted in a column by Andy Martino of SNY earlier this month. Martino wrote the Mets were unlikely to pursue Judge in free agency, in part because of a mutual respect between Mets owner Steve Cohen and Yankees owner Hal Steinbrenner.
As part of that piece, Martino wrote: “Talking to Mets people about this all through the year, the team in Queens sees Judge as a Yankee, uniquely tailored to be an icon in their uniform, stadium and branding efforts. Owners Steve Cohen and Hal Steinbrenner enjoy a mutually respectful relationship, and do not expect to upend that with a high-profile bidding war. The only way people involved can see the Mets changing course and pursuing Judge would be if the Yankees somehow declared themselves totally out of the bidding.”
To be clear, Martino didn’t characterize that as the sole reason the Mets could choose to sit out the Judge bidding, nor did he expressly state Cohen and Steinbrenner had talked about Judge’s free agency. He went on to note the Mets could be wary of signing another deal in excess of $300MM after extending Francisco Lindor last year.
The Mets could certainly make a legitimate baseball argument for not going after Judge, but communication among owners not to pursue a free agent — if it occurred — would be a collusive violation of the collective bargaining agreement. The MLB Players Association expressed concern about the SNY article to the league, Rosenthal notes, spurring the investigation. Rosenthal adds that MLB is expected to request communication records between Cohen and Steinbrenner.
In the 1980’s, arbitrators found a pattern of collusion among owners that depressed the 1985-87 free agent markets. In 1990, owners agreed to pay players $280MM as part of a settlement. Renewed collusion allegations arose in the early 2000’s, and Rosenthal notes the league agreed to a $12MM settlement but no admission of guilt during the 2006 CBA negotiations.
The MLBPA can file a grievance on Judge’s behalf, and Rosenthal writes the union would have to demonstrate both a) improper communication between the Yankees and Mets actually occurred and b) Judge’s market was harmed by that communication.
Meanwhile, Rosenthal suggests the MLBPA could take issue with the Astros in an unrelated matter. That’d relate to comments made by Houston owner Jim Crane last night on the free agent status of Cy Young winner Justin Verlander. Brian McTaggart of MLB.com wrote that “Crane said Verlander is seeking a deal similar to Max Scherzer,” who secured a three-year, $130MM deal with the Mets last winter, as part of an interview with MLB.com on Tuesday. Crane isn’t quoted on the record mentioning Scherzer, telling McTaggart of Verlander: “He’s looking at the comp, which I think there’s only one or two. … J.V.’s probably got a few years left, and he wants to make the most of it. I think he’s going to test the market on that.”
To be clear, there’s no suggestion Crane has been in conversations with other clubs about Verlander’s market. However, the CBA also expressly prohibits team officials from “(making) comments to the media about the value of an unsigned free agent, regardless of whether discussions have occurred,” including comments to the effect of “Player X is seeking more than Player Y received.”
If the Players Association decided to file a grievance against Houston, they’d likewise need to demonstrate Verlander’s market was harmed by Crane’s comments — ostensibly by arguing that Crane’s claims of the nine-time All-Star’s high asking price may deter other teams from jumping into the fray. To this point, there’s no indication the union has filed a grievance in either situation, but each bears monitoring over the coming weeks
Doin some collusion on main, lmao wow damn
Dang when did Adam Silver become the MLB commissioner?
When the White Male Sports Media anointed him as such. After all they think one sport equals another.
Sounds like a non-story…
But with an irritating misplaced apostrophe as a special treat for writers.
Okay, I’ll bite. Where’s the misplaced apostrophe?
I’m guessing it’s the one in “1980’s” but then it should be “misplaces apostrophes” since there’s also one in “2000’s.”
If I had to guess, flyingblindsquirrel, I’d guess you were right.
But those apostrophes aren’t misplaced:
nytimes.com/search?query=1990%27s
Here’s the deal.
In England and the U.S., we don’t have anything like the Académie Française, an official agency established in the 17th century by Cardinal Richelieu that’s dedicated to maintaining the “purity” of the French language.
Instead, we’ve had, up until the recent past, various go-to sources with reputations for dependability in establishing rules of grammar and syntax: e.g., in England, “Fowler’s Dictionary of Modern English Usage” and the OED; and in the U.S., “Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary of English Usage,” “The Chicago Manual of Style,” “The Elements of Style” by Strunk & White, etc.
Then came the internet. And search engines. And algorithms.
Now we have a bunch of self-described experts in English hanging out their digital shingles on the web; entrepreneurs dedicated to profiting by their vaunted expertise — some pretty good, some not so good.
And because a mouse click is easier and more convenient than buying and referring to the aforementioned volumes, these freelance experts get lots of clicks, which move their sites to the top of search engine results whether they deserve to be there or not.
As a consequence, new linguistic conventions pop up like toadstools with little or no reference to the history of conventions in our language. Hence, we get Johnny-come-lately “conventions” like “there’s no apostrophe after a year” as the tyranny of the algorithm sweeps away the old and favors the new.
And, truth be told, English is such a rapidly evolving language with so many linguistic currents that it’s always defied stagnation. And democracies being the unruly and disputatious things they tend to be, the matter of what’s authoritative in English naturally resists agreement anyway.
And that ain’t necessarily a bad thing nohow.
Idk, I’m not great with writing, but the J.V.’s seemed odd. I haven’t seen a name contracted with a word before. But I am illiterate so not sure.
Not sure what point is being made here, but if you pull your copy of the Chicago Manual of Style or similar off your shelf and look up the apostrophe rules you’ll find they are pretty clear. Also, you can flip through professionally-edited journalism or a book to see how the rules work in practice. These deviations are seen a lot now not because the rules have changed but because copy editors were the first to go up against the wall when the (internet) revolution came.
I thought the point was pretty clear: inserting an apostrophe before the “s” in references to time periods (the 1980’s, the 2000’s, etc.) is not wrong. It’s a long-established convention only recently altered:
nytimes.com/1946/07/19/archives/books-of-the-times…
*misplaced apostrophes
No, it’s wrong because it is neither a contraction nor a possessive. Try looking at any style guide or any newspaper other than the NYT (they are the only newspaper to use their own rule). Or, a professionally-edited book. Or here, among many other places.
grammarplanethq.com/writing-decades/
grammarhow.com/decade-apostrophe/
I showed you the exact usage I described in multiple examples in The New York Times dating from the 1990’s (see what I did there?) all the way back to 1946, a time before computers when, I can assure you with confidence, The Times employed both copy editors and proofreaders.
You can persist in ignoring the evidence if you must, but this ends the discussion as far as I’m concerned. Have a wonderful day!
The “authority” who wrote that first page is “Melissa”, no last name; and she does not cite any further authorities. So, not a source.
The second link is better, in that it references both the AP Style Guide and Chicago Manual. But these are Style Guides, not grammar books. They do not have mandatory rules, just suggestions. The reason they exist is so that individuals and organizations can maintain their own consistency in writing. But it’s not a matter of being “correct” or “incorrect.” The NY Times has its own internal style guide.
Gasu1, I have to point out that Mr. Lassen, the founder of grammarhow.com cited above, claims:
“There are no deviations to this rule in standard English. If you include an apostrophe after the decade, you are using it incorrectly.”
He’s full of crap.
I could post here selections from writers as disparate as Noam Chomsky, William Safire and Otto Friedrich, a Harvard-educated historian and the former managing editor of The Saturday Evening Post, showing them repeatedly punctuating time periods in the same manner as in the many New York Times examples cited above — but to what end?
A mind has been made up, and that’s that.
In citing the founder of grammar.how as an authority to refute my point, BlueSkies has instead provided evidence in support of what I described above, i.e., the influence that self-described “experts” on the internet are having on the creation of “conventions” that have little or no reference to the history of conventional usage.
BTW, I have two editions of The Chicago Manual of Style: a modern edition and an old one copyrighted in 1906. The older one has no instructions at all about punctuating decades written in numerals. It simply says that decades should be spelled out in letters. That was their convention back then.
Thinking it over, I was too harsh in saying the guy’s full of crap.
We can only know what we know. When we pick up bad information and believe it’s good information, if there’s any culpability there, it belongs to the person who gave us the bad info — and then, only if the person who fed it to us knows it’s bad info.
Mr. Lassen has taken in some information that he’s persuaded is true in an absolute sense. That doesn’t make him a bad guy. It just means he’s misguided. Hopefully he’ll figure it out.
“Earth to BlueSkies . . . Earth to BlueSkies . . . come in, BlueSkies.”
Fink, the Feds involved yet?
I’m on tenterhooks over this mysterious misplaced apostrophe, TJ. But I’ve got to go to bed. Perhaps I’ll have an answer tomorrow — although the Beatles assured me that “Tomorrow Never Knows” . . . whatever that means.
Peace upon you, one and all.
Are you going to ask every five minutes until I tell you? If so, this could be fun.
They will be as soon as they have Puig in the slammer for good.
TNKs’ or TNK’s ?
Which apostrophe, where? I want to be irritated too.
Ok, I looked up and down the damn thing and didn’t find it.
Now I’m irritated. Thank you.
You mean you did’nt find it?
BlueSkies – what about the irritating, misplaced comma? The one that should’ve gone between “irritating” and “misplaced” in your original comment??
So irritating.
!NolanGorman16, I’ve gotta defend BlueSkies over that one.
Can you replace the comma with “and” and retain the sense of his statement? Nope.
Therefore, he was correct in not placing a comma between “irritating” and “misplaced” in his sentence. The allegedly misplaced apostrophe, in his estimation, was irritating because it was misplaced. If you deleted “misplaced,” the sense of his statement would be essentially changed. “Misplaced” is therefore a restrictive modifier.
(Bloody English language! Where’s my baseball?)
Everyone is all up about an apostrophe that you all forgot about the missing period..
A missing period?
You’re right!
OKAY! NOW ANTHONY HAS GONE TOO DAMNED FAR!
A missing period can be terrifying. Particularly if you are not in a relationship and don’t want to shell out a third of your paycheck for the next 18 years.
Oh boy. Ask me if I’m sorry I mentioned this! Only a possessive or a contraction needs an apostrophe before a final “s.” So, it should be “1980s” (plural) not “1980’s” (possessive or a contraction), for the way it was used in the sentence.
Nope. See above, where I furnished this link:
nytimes.com/search?query=1990%27s
If I may, I’d like to put this to bed with this observation:
I don’t come here for literature. I come here for rumors. These writers furnish those, and they’re writing on deadlines. I’m not surprised if I don’t happen to get haute cuisine from a short-order cook. If we all cut them some slack and just concern ourselves with the free info they provide, so much the better, no?
Like I said, I’m sorry I mentioned it. Had no thought that such a little offhand comment would get so involved. But as I’ve said already, the NYT does things their own way. Good luck finding any other newspaper or book publisher that follows their style guide. You’ll need it, because you won’t. If fact as far as I can tell their style guide also says use no apostrophe in decades, but they do it anyway.
Oh, look! The U.S. Department of Justice, which uses the Government Printing Office Style Manual must have been infected by The New York Times:
ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/primary-dr…
I can’t edit in the missing comma after “Manual” because I’m typing on my phone, and the editing window closed after I had to refresh the page, dang it!
The period is not missing! You stole it. I see it right there in your post.
Not necessarily misplaced, but definitely odd at the beginning of a sentence: “That’d relate to comments…”
“That’d” is a contraction of “that” and “would,” like “that’ll” is a contraction of “that” and “will.” “That’d” can also be a contraction of “that” and “had”: e.g., “If that’d been me, I’d have done it differently.”
Missing apostrophe..
Okay you guys go that way. Me and scoob will go this way. Let’s find us some clues.
I bet it was mister NlEastchampsMadBum the whole time.
Misplaced apostrophe? More like misplaced conversations
It*s an apostrophe apocalypse! The Invasion of the Apocalypse Snatchers.
Frank Zappa’s fifth solo album was called “Apostrophe (‘)” — but I never owned a copy, so I can’t say it’s missing.
The apostrophe is supposed to go after the first “S”
So it should read, “S’ounds”
Yep, that does it.
I hope they make Andy Martino name who the “Mets people” that gave him this information.
Media stirs the pot for clicks, then gets bonus clicks for covering the investigation… WIN-WIN!!!
Yes, the media should never cover conspiracies, they may profit.
and yet the majority of the public still buys the bs.
This story seems to cover only comments that became public. We’ll have to use our imaginations to think of any that remain private.
Interesting. I wonder if Andy Martino’s employer, SNY, called him into the office.
Meanwhile, let’s all pretend that owners scrupulously follow the rules against collusion. (Of course Barry Bonds couldn’t get a contract after 2007 because of his terrible 1.045 OPS and 169 OPS+ that year.)
Hopefully this inhibits Andy Martino’s oft-written hyperbolic articles. He’s constantly writing fiction. Having something like this investigated is one way to be reassigned to the classified section, if untrue.
Assuming this story is baseless & untrue, they should just excise him from all media access areas and revoke any credentials he has/may have issued to him by those teams. That said, if perchance they did it, let them both get hammered with the maximum proscribed penalties.
The promulgation of baseless stories, shady “sources” and interpretive writing has real-world consequences. Make an example out of whomever is the at-fault party, within the constraints of policy & regulation.
I would say if it is proven baseless then any dollars spent into the investigation MLBPA or MLB should be charged to the writer personally and the reporting company. It makes them take some responsibility in the articles they write whether it is their opinion or fact.
In this country you want media responsibility? you have things being reported on Monday, proven false on Tuesday, with no retraction and no apology. All to persuade the public to follow an agenda.
What if we don’t assume it’s untrue? Would you be so convinced if it was about the Red Sox colluding with another team?
I’m sure informal agreements like this happen all the time… Martino was just stupid enough to write about it
I wouldn’t make that assumption, Ketch. To the contrary, it’s believable.
Im more tired of reporters throwing out baseless stories to get their name in lights. Im happy about this site in that it weeds out many of the bad ones. but what if we assume reporters in general have actual proof of such things that can be turned over based on investigations Not the i have a “reliable source” told me.. So many times reporters throw out bs stuff and hope to be the news breaker and then its proven false wasting money and time and effort for people trying to disprove it. Then what happens to the writer when it is proven false? absolutely nothing, they just make another click-baiter. I’m just saying they need to have some responsibility for the writers
In the end, it will be just money grab that will probably be settled out of court regardless of truth or not because it cost less to pay a couple million than the whole investigation effort and lawyer cost.
There are lots of instances in which a reporter can’t get any information from someone in the know unless the reporter agrees to protect the source. True, this is abused by fraudulent writers fabricating or inflating alleged sources. But that’s not a good enough reason to prevent reporters from ever citing anonymous sources. Anonymous sources have revealed some very important information that ultimately led to crucial investigations, e.g., so-called “Deep Throat” in the Watergate scandal.
Actually Ketch, despite the obvious accusation toward Yankee fan bias, if you reread my comment this has more to do with the reporter than the teams. Hence my writing, “if perchance they did it, let them both get hammered with the maximum proscribed penalties.”
Moreover, Cohen wants to win. The likelihood of Cohen agreeing *not* to pursue Judge to make Steinbrenner happy is less probable, imo.
But, to make unwarranted accusations is cool too. You do you.
so the damage done is ok if it helps “sometimes”? That is a comical way to justify these unethical writers
I hope he gets sued if it’s proven false. Part of the problem with writers like Martino is that he stretches the boundaries so often, people like Martino & Nightengale ruin sports journalism (albeit very, very different outcomes/results/consequences).
If he is being honest (I doubt it based on his history), and people don’t believe him, it’s his own fault for having questionable reporting ethics to begin with. If he’s lying and he gets sued, Cohen and Steinbrenner can actually collude on that case!
All the more reason why rating a nameless, faceless article about some guy’s sense of the vibes of ownership is just nonsense. Maybe they had the conversation, maybe they didn’t. We don’t have any more reason to believe it happened based on the article itself, but now the league has to pretend we do.
Eventually, they will never get an owner to talk to a reporter if any of these cost them money. I don’t think any wrong doing went on, but just the talk of it could limit access to these interviews.
I say 25 bucks an hour
$4.67 per hour after taxes!
Does anybody really doubt this goes on? Duh. The real question is, Unless you’re a fly on the wall, How you gonna prove it?
MLBPA did three times already
3 times?! In like…….45 years. Gotta be true.
How would a fly prove it?
The owner brags about the secret handshake, and the fly records it.
Damn flies
I agree that, if true, these are violations but we all know this is tiny compared to what happens behind closed doors.
Cheaters… when will the league crack down on these cheaters? No playoffs for the next 5 years.
LOL Mets This Mets – Yankees non compete agreement regarding FAs is troublesome.
Where there is smoke there may be Fire. Aaron Judge fits the Mets needs like a Glove. Elite Power Hitting OF which is what the Mets need to replace FA Nimmo. Why are the Mets not pursuing him?
Loose lips sink ships. Who was Andy Martino’s Source? Was it Sandy Alderson who may know about what Steve Cohen promised Hal Steinbrenner for his Ownership Vote which wasn’t a slam dunk?
For the record I couldn’t believe that the Mets didn’t Draft Aaron Judge and instead drafted the slug Dom Smith. We were right back then. LOL
Are you dense, a delusional Mets hater, or a troll? You write utter nonsense on every Mets article. Like this:
“Why are the Mets not pursuing him?”
Their payroll is already among the highest in baseball (I think it *is* the highest, actually). And that’s with needing to fill three out of five spots in the rotation, rebuilding the bullpen, and figuring out how to replace Nimmo. Judge *could* fit that last need, but their payroll is already going to be near $300 million before even addressing that. You seriously can’t understand why the Mets wouldn’t pursue a guy who is likely commanding $300+ million over 8 or so years?
And this:
“Was it Sandy Alderson”
You seriously think the current President of the Mets is leaking to a source that his owner is colluding with another owner in violation of the CBA? Like, why? Why would Alderson do that?
And this:
“For the record I couldn’t believe that the Mets didn’t Draft Aaron Judge and instead drafted the slug Dom Smith.”
Literally every team in baseball passed on Aaron Judge. Including, get this, *the Yankees*, who drafted Eric Jagielo 26th overall before taking Judge 32nd overall. The Mets are not afforded any special status for not drafting Judge because everyone could have and didn’t. btw, pretty much every mock draft I can find shows Judge as a late 1st rounder.
Sandy Alderson was responsible for hiring a Manager and a General Manager who were deviants and subsequently banished from MLB and another who was Terminated for a DUI after a Party at Steve Cohen’s House.
Sandy Alderson was running his mouth about signing Michael Cuddyer who was a FA before the QO deadline only to then have the Twins GM offer him the QO. Sandy Alderson then signed FA Cuddyer and lost the Mets first round draft choice. I can’t make this stuff up.
What does any of that have to do with anything presented here?
I’ll ask again about Alderson, since you ignored the other points: Why on earth would the current Mets team president blab to a reporter that the team owner is colluding with another owner in violation of the CBA? What could possibly be his motivation for doing that? Are you suggesting he wants to get fired? Sabotage the team that, again, he is the current president of?
Please do all of us Mets fans a favor and stop trolling every single Mets article on this site. You are not good at it.
Because…A team declares interest in a player and the owner of his previous team says to the press; ‘It’s gonna cost you what you paid for Scherzer to make him and others back off’ It’s a crime in this league.
In real time around the 2013 MLB Draft several of us were discussing on the MLB Message Board that the Mets draft Aaron Judge with their 1st Round Pick. I was shocked that they didn’t and instead drafted Dom Smith ( LOL ). I was also shocked that Judge fell to where he did but not shocked that the Yankees drafted him.
Ooooh! The Yankees drafted Judge (after no one else would have him). And Robrock30 smells something rotten. The age of conspiracy theories based on nothing.
Kind of like when David Ortiz was ‘alleged’ to take steroids, and was lumped into factually proven users such as Bonds, Clemens and Pettite.
I thought Cohen wanted the Mets to win? Alonso and Judge in the same lineup would be a nightmare for opposing pitchers.
The Fans want the Mets to win and covet Aaron Judge who puts them over the top.
I personally wanted Aaron Judge in the 2013 MLB Draft instead of Dom Smith who needs to be non tendered since he isn’t worth $ 4 MM and Mets have delusions of trading him Lol.
The issue which has now been brought to light is an illegal collusion pact between the Mets and Yankees preventing this. Mets fans and Players Union are adversely affected by this.
Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb…dumb.
with their existing payroll and needs, can they really afford another $35M-$40M on Judge. Let’s be practical, and not hysterical. Tone down the conspiracy theories, Robrock30.
That’s the point.
“I’ll stay away from Judge and you don’t make an offer to Alonso.”
Cheaters going cheat.
Being somewhat of an expert in antitrust restraint of trade the penalties are severe and the Parties could be looking at treble damages.
MLB isn’t subject to the Sherman Anti-Trust Act.
Yes I am well aware that MLB has an antitrust exemption only because of the Grace of Congress which could be revoked. I am just stating the severity of the penalties under the Sherman, Clayton, and Robinson Patman Acts.
But didn’t you read? Robrock30 is “somewhat of an expert”! He may apply his expertise to areas where it is totally not applicable, but he is somewhat of an expert!
The concept is monopsony where there are only a few purchasers in the Labor Market.
Just want you to know Aaron, we Giants fans love you and respect you, and just fully respect your unencumbered and uncompromised FA bargaining rights, at all times and in all “circumstances”.
Call us if you want to talk about it – anytime – day or night – we are here for YOU!
And always remember, dear sweet-swinging lad, there’s no place like home, there’s no place like home, there’s no place like home… 🙂
XOXOXO
It really doesn’t matter if The Asterisk damaged Verlander’s FA Money earnings. They will just be slapped on the wrist cheaters always win in this league
yawwwwwn.
They were literally the only team punished for something multiple teams were doing…
They were literally don g something different than other teams. Let’s not conflate the two
That’s false, but wouldn’t want you to use facts or anything. Commissioner’s report said multiple teams and many players have said the same.
Asterisks were decoding signals in real time. That was different. They did it all season long. That was different. Stop lying, jjd002, just because you can’t admit your team were the biggest cheaters of all time and stole a world series. Admit it, show contrition, along with the players, and the whole thing will fade away. Otherwise it will remain the scandal of the century.
In 2021, oil companies in the US made $42 billion in profit in the third quarter.
In 2022, oil companies made over $140 billion in profit in the third quarter after jacking up gas prices and blaming it on inflation or Ukraine even though the price of oil did not support said prices.
Could we start the collusion investigations there?
That discussion is on OilFuturesTradeRumors.com
And just WTF is wrong with respecting your brothers in a game even if you do have a competition? This is maybe the stupidest thing that has come out of MLB in the last decade. And there has been a LOT of stupid in MLB in the last decade!
What MLB actually needs is a complete changing of the guards at the Top! This current command is idiotic at best!
kevin – Correction, this will be the second stupidest thing next to the ghost runner. Owners who respect each other should have conversations over such things…it’s business. This is why unions do more harm than good and lawyers are hated.
Regardless, any “harm” to Judge’s market is not quantifiable and could never be related back to a conversation between 2 businessmen showing mutual respect for one another. Even if it could, what’s the remedy? Just stupid…but not as stupid as the ghost runner.
This commissioner is the worst and he’s ruining the game.
Much agreed! Manfred is garbage! And also yes, the ghost runner is idiotic, as is making the bases 3 inches bigger, as is adding the DH to the NL, as is the intentional just go to first base, as is the only 2 tosses to first base.
Ok I’ll stop as there aint enough room in a commet for me to keep going! However feel free to add to the stupidities they keep concocting! 🙂
All of those plus:
Pitch clocks, limited mound visits, limited stepping out of the batter’s box, I’m sure there are more.
Manfred has taken the psychological aspect out of the game in order to shave a few minutes of average game time to appease low attention span viewers. It’s sad.
When your typical 9-inning ballgame takes at least 3 hours to play, day in and day out, the Lords of Baseball are going to do everything they can to shorten things up. That is a valid reason why the national pastime has fallen in stature.
I’m old enough to remember when 2-hour games were not unusual and 3-hour 9-inning games were.
NJ – “When your typical 9-inning ballgame takes at least 3 hours to play…”
So what if the game takes 3 hours?
Because the pace of play is a major concern for baseball, now and in the future.
NJ – “Because the pace of play is a major concern for baseball…”
That’s a circular answer. Who is the “baseball” you are referring to that has a major concern? For every “fan” who says the games are too long, I can show you a fan who says the opposite.
As far as “pace of play” is concerned, you miss the nuances of the game: a pitcher stepping off the rubber to get into the batters head; a batter stepping out of the box to get inside the pitcher’s head; etc. It’s all part of the psychological strategy side of baseball, which is what makes it great. It’s a game of “reading between the lines” which is missed by younger, short attention span viewers who want to be spoon fed entertainment.
Prov356: I agree with you, buddy. Not to mention that for every single rule change/pace of play alteration there is going to be a consequential loophole for them to do exactly the same thing, just in a different way. I get the game is long. Oftentimes it’s longer than it needs to be. But there are so many changes that can can occur outside of the game itself.
As a case in point, I believe it was your Angels that had a pace of play issue this year. A pitcher (don’t recall whom) was on the mound for a review and wanted some warmup throws upon its completion. The ump denied it. They went back and forth. Manager comes out and argues vehemently that the pitcher deserves warmups. Ump still denies. Manager continues to argue and is tossed. Then he really grinds on the ump, after which the ump awards the warmup pitches because the arguing has taken so long.
So, in an effort to save 5 minutes, we wasted 25, only to have the goal of warmup pitches achieved. How did that help pace of play initiatives at all? It didn’t.
Exactly, Clipper!
Hope you’re well. Winter hit this morning in Nashville. 22 degrees at 630. Have a great Thanksgiving if we don’t cross paths before then.
You too, sir!
That’s collusion
goat – Here is the definition of collusion per the Googles:
“secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.”
Two owners having a conversation out of mutual respect does not meet that definition.
Your last sentence left something out:
Who agreed to not get into a “high-profile bidding war”.
Now its much more into the gray area, of whether or not its ‘collusion’.
Yeah, that doesn’t change it. The definition of collusion requires criminal or deceptive intent:
“secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.”
I dont get why youre being oblivious to the possibility of “criminal” intent. It would be ‘to profit’. If the Mets agree to not bid on Judge and Yankees agree to not bid on Degrom. It would drive down the price of both players. Thus, providing profit to both team and illegal.
And, no Im not say ‘Thats what happened’. I giving a scenario to counter your “conversation out of mutual respect” BS. When was the last time McDonald’s CEO called his Burger King counterpart to have a ‘conversation out of mutual respect’. Please put your bias aside for 10 secs.
If criminal intent is proven through the facts, then that changes the scenario. If they had a casual conversation, then there is no criminal intent. If their casual conversation resulted in an unintended consequence of someone profiting, that’s still not criminal intent. If the intent of the conversation was to create a scenario with the goal of profiting from an illegal agreement, then that might meet the definition of collusion.
We weren’t there. All we have is what is in this article, which outlines a conversation close to my representation of it. Based on the limited information provided, I don’t see collusion.
Out of curiosity, what bias do you perceive me to have that I need to set aside for 10 seconds?
Again – the MLBPA has sued and won three times over this exact behavior…
Really Ketch? Please cite the cases for all of us to reference.
Ketch – Seeing no response, I have to assume you can’t cite any cases that have been adjudicated in favor of the MLBPA with the same set of facts.
I can’t believe this is an actual article or that MLB is even investigating it. It’s total nonsense and so what if the two owners like each other and wouldn’t mess with each other’s big stars how does that hurt anything at all?
The idea would be that it would be artificially suppressing Judge’s earning capability, which is collusion.
Yaaaawwwwnnnnn
I don’t see how you can punish this in any way, or even prove it for that matter. It’s going to ripe some anti-NY fans up, but it’s really nothing.
*rile
VonPurple: Youre right, proving something like this would be tough. Unless theres a recording where the owner says it.
Collusion is wrong, just because your favorite team is benefiting from it, doesn’t make it right. You should be able to see this logic.
Oh yea. I’m not debating the morality of it one way or the other. Cohen, for example, has done some morally awful things in his time, way before owning the Mets. I just sort of see this as a non-story because I don’t see how any action can come from this.
A recording, being rich, doesnt make you smart. If Cohen bragged about this in an interview, then thats all MLB would need (keep in mind the MLBPA is going to be pizzed about this). Steinbrenner could say “I have nothing to do with this” and youre right, he’d be off the hook, but not Cohen.
@croagnut that is a HUGE “if”, do you have some inside knowledge that anyone bragged about anything and if so that it was recorded?
I was replying to “I don’t see how any action can come from this.” Clearly there are ways action could come of this. A recording would be one such catalyst. Do you have “some inside knowledge” that no traces, letters, recording etc happened? No? Lets let it playout, instead of making assumptions.
Do you know these are separate corporations? Do you know what corporate collusion is?
Mets want to offer 350M to Judge, Yankees only want to go 320M. Aaron Judge just lost 30M because they wont bid against each other. So now, Yankees wont bid on DeGrom, and he loses money.
Why not just make an agreement that no team can bid on a player unless the players former team agrees. You know, for the 90% of the league that doesnt have a “brother” team in their town.
@croagnut How do you know any of that happened? The article doesn’t say that. Do you have an inside source? The article reads kind of like Andy Martino might have stretched fact into fiction.
Clickbait story. Very few can afford this type of high profile, ultra-expensive player and unlikely to be a bidding war for exactly that reason. The collusion issue more directly and adversely affects the middle level and more fringe players anyway.
Very few can afford this type of ultra-expensive player and unlikely to be a bidding war”
How does that make sense?
Top 7 contracts of all times: 1) Trout, Angels, 2) Bett, Dodgers 3) Lindor, Mets 4) Tatis, Padres 5) Harper, Phillies 6) Stanton, Marlins 7) Seaver, Rangers
Looks to me like a lot of cities sign “ultra-expensive players”. Are you going to argue that there wasnt any bidding wars there?
Saying things, doesnt make them true.
Terrific Tom did not player for Rangers, you must mean Corey.
Croagnut – who can realistically afford Judge? That’s the real question. Dodgers, Giants, Red Sox, Yankees, maybe the Rangers. Mets is highly debatable because of their existing record-setting payroll and multiple other needs. Spending 35-$40M seems out of the question. Red Sox, under Bloom, have shown absolutely no appetite for this kind of deal at this time. That leaves three, maybe four teams seriously competing for his services. So the NYY-Mets conspiracy doesn’t really have legs, since the Mets were almost surely out of the picture anyway. And the bidding war is going to be small. I suspect the Dodgers and Rangers fall out early. That’ll leave the Giants and NYY. Small war.
Cohen going to begrudgingly offer Judge 500 million now to prove he isn’t colluding with Hal.
So… another collusion lawsuit? Does that mean two more expansion teams?
Somewhere, Ruxin’s head is spinning and he is screaming “Collusion!”
Andy Martino probably killed his career with this. No one will ever talk to him again. Of course there’s the lineup of unnamed sources. Collusion is not staying away from certain players, it’s when Owners are in cahoots to drive down the price on players. Judge will get his money whether it’s the Yankees, Mets, Dodgers, or Giants.
Unless they have Cohen and Steinbrenner red-handed conversing about keeping the price down on their free agents, and witnesses to the fact, this is a big nothing burger.
Collusion (def): Secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy.
If the allegations are true, I’d say that definition fits the sit to a ‘T’.
Also: “Owners are in cahoots to drive down the price on players”
If Mets were to offer more money than the Yankees, and wont because of the ‘brotherhood’, how does that not “drive down the price”? Also, I’m sure after the ‘brothers’ communicated, DeGrom is certainly not heading to the Yankees. Which is driving down his price.
The Mets and Yankees as a “Brotherhood” is a real stretch there pal.
Dont take it personal ‘pal’. Just quoting what was written earlier in the post.
“just WTF is wrong with respecting your brothers”
I guess you guys are ‘brothers’ if it screws the rest of the league.
There’s no proof of anything. Let the investigation pan out, then accuse the Yankees and Mets of tampering.
Who are you a fan of the Cheating Astros or the Cheating Red Sox?
And don’t quote me or send me a definition you scumbag.
Here’s a more important quote, imho:
“Talking to Mets people about this all through the year, the team in Queens sees Judge as a Yankee“
A) Mets people (Not Cohen/Alderson)
B) All throughout the year
It would have far more teeth if this occurred at the winter meetings. But to write an article saying you had “conversations with Mets people all throughout the year” does *not make sense.* Also, Andy Martino is a known …..lia…uh, specialist in hyperbole?
I am shocked, I tell you…SHOCKED!…that there is colluding in this establishment!
Here’s your winnings, sir
Any word on whether Rays management also told Steinbrenner they won’t pursue Judge?
Of course a lot of this could be Cohen and his people rationalizing on why not to pursue Judge. When he says Juge “fits the Yankee brand”, he might really mean “I’m not paying 500 million dollars for a bloody baseball player, especially one that can’t stay healthy until real money is at stake.” But without trying to sound cheap.
Good point. And to simplify ‘Cohen’s an idiot’. Because MLBPA is going to want to know a LOT more.
Gotta wait and see.
Yankees cheating? No way lol
If I bought a goat, could he eat grass?
I guess it depends on the type of grass you try to feed him.
Martino wrote: “Talking to Mets people
============================
Interesting case. I assume that this falls under ‘confidential sources’. So unless the courts force Martino to divulge his sources, then there is no investigation.
FWIW, I presume that at least 50% of writers “inside sources” are “inside their head”.
Free speech and journalism is what distinguishes this country the most from some of the world’s dictators.
I trust most journalists who say they have sources – most not all. I trust the journalists more than the owners or the players union.
Again, however, public comments that sound a little like collusion are tiny in impact compared to what surely happens behind closed doors among the billionaire owners.
Martino better be really really correct on his quotes and his framing. I’m not suggesting that some reporters can editorialize/analyze, but if MLB is launching an investigation over nothing… BTW, do any of us believe there’s no signaling by GMs? How many “looking to stay under the CBT” or “satisfied with in house options” stories do we see?
Who cares
CHEATERS!!
True! But just not in this instance.
If the Mets did break the rules, they should be held accountable and appropriately punished. If what Martino reported turns out to be less than journalistic, he should be fired.
Shocking
Must be a slow news day if the pundits are trying to spin this story into a “Who Dunnit”. JMHO, but don’t see anything wrong with baseball people, from the owners on down, discussing free agents, or players in general.
To wit, if for example, Trea Turner’s name came up in conversation between two baseball people employed by different teams, is it wrong for one of them to say, “Oh, he’s great, but we can’t afford him?”
Also, gonna be tough to prove one person’s comment affecting another’s decision. In the words of Billy the Shakester, “Much ado about nothing!”.
Andy Martino is a clown and should not be taken seriously.
What a BS investigation! I guess Manfred and his baseball ruining staff have nothing better to do.
Instead of shouting from the rooftop that you overhead an innuendo from an unnamed source that Cohen MIGHT have mentioned something about a certain FA to Steinbrenner during a timeframe that MIGHT NOT have been kosher, he should just hire somebody like Barany Jones or Jim Rockford to get to the actual, factual bottom of it.
Solaris – sadly I don’t think many of the readers here will get the reference but I did..thanks for making me feel old lol
What about Frank Cannon
Big deal
That’s cheating and they need to throw the book at the Astros. It has to stop. Fans are very irate at this garbage. Very bad climate for this behavior. MLB needs to block any Astros deal related to Verlander that is out of scope and impose a $25 Million dollar fine which is the difference between Scherzer and Verlander salary currently. Manfred needs to grow a pair. Rod Carew is right about this guy.
How are the Astros mixed up in this?
Ohh nevermind. Responded to the wrong post. You’re talking about the Verlander situation. Understood.
You must be an LA fan following one or both losers. LOL.
That’s barely anything. Calm down.
I have it on good authority that the As were bidding on Judge, DeGrom and JV until Cohen, Steinbrenner and Crane colluded and kept them out of the bidding. What garbage. MLB office and players union should be dissolved.
Despite the scary headline this really doesn’t seem like a big issue. If it can be proved that there was any rule breaking, then punish them and we move on. But man, it’s hard to prove collusive intent without an admission. And you know these owners talk to each other behind closed doors and are playing 32 person chess 24/7…..I’m quite sure if we dug deep we could find some egregious stuff over the history of the game. This just seems so minuscule in the big picture.
So Cohen is “politely” staying out of the Aaron Judge market, are the Yankees extending the same courtesy to the Mets for any certain players they are interested in?
As for Crane/Verlander, by now Verlander’s representatives have had a chance to speak to other teams so whatever kind of deal he is looking for is probably not a secret around the league. Perhaps the gentlemanly thing to do would have been not to say it out loud by Crane but its not like Heyman or someone else wouldn’t be reporting it sooner or later
mlbtr articles are suspect. for example, headlines like a certain team is interested in a certain player.
That is why it is a rumors site and not a fact site., 🙂
fake news runs the world. and we thought the russians were all propaganda
mlbtr sources other stories. They’re usually not the ones doing the reporting, rather they compile stories from other sources. it’s a fantastic resource. and they should report stories like this because it was reported elsewhere. the content of this story is not on them. They’re just compiling information.
still part of the problem. repeating collusion stories
Much ado about nothing
It’s nice to see the Dolphins not involved in this tampering case.
Baseball is not the NFL.
You must be fun at parties. It was a joke, Chuck.
One man’s joke is another man’s mouth-breathing fantasy.
Feels like a non-story. Most of the stories every year around free agents are more bluster than fact. Likely more a business decision on the part of Cohen to not sign a $300MM+ contract. That’s assuming it’s even true that the Mets aren’t interested in Judge. I’m sure they’re monitoring his market.
Shocking.
Both teams should be barred from participating in free agency this year.
Regards
Giants fan.
No loss of Draft Picks? Brady deflates a few footballs and the team lost draft picks. Youre too easy.
Baseball ain’t the NFL.
This… doesn’t make any sense.
Andy Martino is a twit. He should lose his job at SNY for putting out fake news.
How do we know it’s not true?
This is pathetic. Yankees are so broke these days they’re asking teams like the Mets to not participate in the Judge sweepstakes. And due to the “respect” the NY owners have for each other, Cohen complies. This to me is a serious, and cowardly violation.
You could basically low ball a player like Aaron Judge because you’re colluding with other owners for them to not join in on the bidding.
If this is true, and Cohen is such a nice guy that he wants to make sure out of “respect” the Yankees are still able to profit off Aaron Judge, with marketing and all that, but the Yankees still want to spend the least amount of money possible to get Judge, then I’m giving out a serious fine to both teams.
Fine both organizations 20 million against this years payroll, and take away their 1st round draft picks for the up coming draft. Colluding is extremely cowardly… Judge deserves to get paid everything he’s earned, colluding with other owners for them to stay away from Judge is literally taking money out of Judges pockets.
Judge asked the Yankees not to put it out to the media, concerning his contract demands. Cashman made sure to do the opposite in the beginning of the season when he told the media Judge was asking for this and that much. Judge got painted as the bad guy until he had a record breaking season. Now the Yankees are trying to have as little competition as possible for the services of Judge, so the Yankees don’t end up in a bidding war.
If I’m Judge, I’m out of New York. Yankees play too many dirty games that hurt the reputation or money of Aaron Judge. If I’m him I let Steinbrenner and Cashman play their clown games with someone else, not me. Enough is enough with these clowns. That’s what they are, literal clowns. To go against your players, then to colluded with other owners so they stay away from your player.. that to me doesn’t care for the best interest of that player. And the players make the game what it is. They deserve a serious fine for this. MLB has to fix this, this can’t happen to people who are trying to get paid what they feel they deserve.
I predict MLB will find MLB did nothing wrong.
Andy Martino is awful and loves to make up stories for clicks, just like this. There’s no way that the Mets and Yankees are colluding on Judge lol. Cohen probably said something off the cuff to sound “respectful” by saying there is no way in hell we are going for Judge
All of this seems like nitpicking. There are so many real issues in the mlb to focus on instead.
From Newsday:
“Let me say two things,” Manfred said Thursday at the conclusion of MLB’s owners meetings in midtown Manhattan. “Obviously, I was a labor guy first. Labor rule one is you want to make sure that when you make an agreement, you live up to the agreement. I’m absolutely confident that the clubs behaved in a way that was consistent with the agreement.
“This was based on a newspaper report. We will put ourselves in a position to demonstrate credibly to the MLBPA that this is not an issue. I’m sure that’s going to be the outcome. But obviously, we understand the emotion that surrounds that word and we’ll proceed accordingly.”
_________________________
So, Mr. Manfred — how is it that you’re so certain? You’ve already investigated this — read all the emails and such — and you know there’s nothing amiss?