Fresh off yesterday’s acquisition of Teoscar Hernandez, the Mariners are again looking to the trade market to solidify some areas of need. Seattle has reached out to the Brewers to inquire on the potential availability of second baseman Kolten Wong, reports Jon Morosi of MLB.com (Twitter link).
Wong is a natural target for the Mariners, given their lack of a clear starter at second base and a lineup that skews a bit right-handed. The Brewers picked up a $10MM club option on the two-time Gold Glove winner just last week, but Milwaukee’s massive arbitration class and mounting payroll opens the door for the trades of some players on notable salaries. While picking up Wong’s option shows that the team is certainly comfortable committing what was a net $8MM to him — the option had a $2MM buyout — Milwaukee also surely recognized that at one year and $10MM, Wong may also be a desirable trade commodity.
Should the Brewers ultimately trade Wong, they might not feel compelled to look outside the organization for an alternative. Luis Urias is currently slated to play third base in 2023, but he has ample experience at second and could appear there more regularly in the absence of Wong. Alternatively, former first-round pick Brice Turang played a full season in Triple-A at just 22 years of age and held his own against more seasoned competition, batting .286/.360/.412 (108 wRC+) with 13 home runs, 24 doubles, two triples, 34 steals (in 36 tries), a 10.8% walk rate and a 19.6% strikeout rate. He’s already on the 40-man roster and quite arguably ready for a look in the big leagues.
The 2022 season was an odd one for Wong — one of his best with the bat and perhaps his worst with the glove. The 32-year-old smacked a career-high 15 home runs and batted .251/.339/.430, adding 24 doubles, five triples and 17 steals (in 23 tries) along the way. The 2022 season marked a second straight year of improved power for Wong, who put the ball on the ground at a 47% clip during his eight-year tenure with the Cardinals but has dropped that to 42% as a member of the Brewers. Whether it’s been a conscious decision to elevate the ball more regularly or simply an organic development in his swing path, the uptick in power is noticeable. It’s come with a slight bump in his strikeouts, but Wong’s 17.7% rate in 2022 was still well shy of the league average.
On the defensive side of the game, however, the 2022 season was a bizarre and borderline nightmarish one for Wong. Typically one of the game’s best defenders at his position, Wong made a stunning 17 errors — more than he’d totaled in the three prior seasons combined. When his option was picked up, Wong told the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel’s Todd Rosiak that his legs weren’t fully healthy in 2022, which he felt contributed to his surprising defensive shortcomings (Twitter links). Wong missed time in June with a calf strain that sent him to the injured list, and it’s certainly plausible that his legs cost him some of his typical defensive excellence.
Though he’s a natural fit for the Mariners, Wong is no lock to be traded and is but one of many options Seattle could pursue at the position. Old friend Jean Segura is the top second baseman on the market, and Brandon Drury is another potential free-agent option, although he played far more third base than second base in 2022. The Mariners could, for a second straight offseason, try to convince a premier shortstop to sign in Seattle and slide over to second base. Dipoto’s Mariners appear committed to keeping J.P. Crawford at shortstop, even on the heels of his own down season with the glove.
Sign and trade by the crew here. I’m assuming he’s for sure going to be traded
I give up.
Trader Jerry is on his own from here on out with no further help or advice from me.
Nice to see Brandon Drury’s name come up even so late in the article.
Stands to reason the Mariners are targeting Wong because DiPoto is finding out that all the big money SS’s want to stay at SS and aren’t amenable to position changes.
Why wouldn’t Turner play 2B if given the best deal? He played 2B for Dodgers the year before last with no complaints because they had a better defensive option. Turner is average to below average defensively at SS and is a much better 2B. Now Correa or Swanson probably wouldn’t consider it as they solid SS and likely better at that position.
slund24;
Turner is a SS and an excellent one.
He played 2B with the Dodgers because he was traded at the deadline and they made it clear to him (or his agent) that he would only be there for a few months and return to SS in 2022. Everyone with a pulse that followed MLB knew that the Dodgers would let Seager go in FA. As far as how Trea played 2B – the answer is not well. He was obviously uncomfortable there.
Mr. Turner is a FA and can play for whom he wants and where he wants – which is SS.
Your proposal is like suggesting that Aaron Judge play CF for the Marlins.
He’s already said they are open to the idea of moving JP to 2B if they got a big SS. I think it is more they are open to grabbing another guy who has played mostly SS in their careers in the tiers under the top guys that they would want to move to 2B (Andrus, Iglesias).
The M’s would jump at a better defensive SS so they can move Crawford to 2b.
I have no doubt that DiPoto would move Crawford off of SS if it meant one of Turner, Swanson, or Xander came to Seattle. He had to say that comment to back up his SS, but he isn’t drawing the line at moving Crawford off of SS for one of them.
Personally, I wouldn’t mind seeing him grab Hiura though as a backup option. He is only 25, and should still have potential. If he can go back to his rookie play, he would be very solid going forward.
If the Mariners go the trade route, I still wouldn’t mind seeing them go after Ketel Marte. I still think the DBacks would be a good fit for either Marco or Flexen, and it would actually offset the salaries of both as well. Plus, I don’t think it would take a ton more from our side as well.
I haven’t run it through a trade simulator, but something like Marco/Flexen and Trammell for Marte and like Kyle Nelson or another reliever would be my rough trade proposal.
Trammell would be redundant for a Diamondbacks team full of left handed hitting Outfielders.
Marte’s salary is not a bank breaker for the Diamondbacks and as a team eying contention next season it seems unlikely Marte goes anywhere.
@Rsox I’m not saying his salary is a bank breaker… I’m more saying that Marte isn’t necessarily going to be part of their long term plans, and Marco or Flexen would give them an innings eater to ease their young pitchers in. And, not saying it has to be Trammell… just meant someone with control that fits into that longer plan for them.
On the prospect side, the DBacks have Lawler (SS), Alexander (2B/SS), De Los Santos (3B/1B), Melendez (1B), and Vukovich (3B)…. all of which are set to be part of the DBacks in 2023 or 2024.
Get Jake McCarthy too!!
If those 4 big name SS’s don’t want to play 2B that’s fine. It doesn’t take the Mariners out of the bidding. Dipoto has publicly changed his tune from his 2021 offseason’s declaration when he said JP is their SS for the long term.
Except Wong plays second. Is there something I am missing because I don’t follow the Mariners that close? Do they have a current second baseman that can play short because Wong sure can’t.
The Mariners currently have a SS who posted… uhhh… not great fielding metrics, so a lot of people want one of the shiny SS free agents so they can move the existing SS to 2B, where his glove might fit better.
JP had a bad year he is a GG winner and is usually pretty solid defensively. It started with his slump at the plate and carried to his glove. You could see in his manor it was getting to him.
If we could get one of the big names moving him over would probably be better. Take some pressure off him at both O and D. If the Ms do get Wong then sign one of the SS I could see Wong as a trade chip too. He has done it before.
Plus Perry Hill will work it out of JP and will help Wong if he wants to put in the work. He has infield practice almost everyday during the season. He works them pretty good and they seem to like it. Look what he did with Suarez.
I don’t think Seattle would be interested in bringing back the attitude he had. I am sure the truth in what happened is in the middle but no reason to maybe deal with him again.
Blah blah blah. This sounds like a rerun of last off season. We are getting better and will finish ahead of you. Your streak of playoff and will last another few years. If you take history as a lesson Jerry has built BPs far better than you.
Your weak pitchers don’t pitch to pitchers etc is correct. Only thing you were correct on. Depending on what we get for 2nd our infield will be better. JP will bounce back. You have Trout in CF then what? Is a LFer going to improve so much that he makes the OF great?
I can easily see Jerry get Yoshida here and Senga wouldn’t be a surprise. I also don’t see Ohtani coming back to you. He could easily come to Seattle where he should have come in the first place.
Trout has to upset about signing back there. I know what it looks like to have a star and not make the playoffs but once I think. I could see some mumbling about wanting out and the Angels should do it now before his value drops. I hope you don’t trade him and fill your minor system with talent. Just keep riding the delusion in your mind we are better than Seattle.
That you have been in the past but posting fairytales on here doesn’t make it so. You should copy and paste your posts to use them next year would save time rather than rewrite the same thing.
It is funny how everyone says that nobody wants to come to Seattle. In all sports many of the players take up permanent residence here after their career is over.
Castillo was here for a month and signed a long term contract. Ray signed one after winning the Cy Young award. The false narrative is that players didn’t want to come is short sided.
Seattle was owned by the founder of Nintendo he did a fair job but was unwilling to make a big trade at the trading deadline. That is why Lou left. He knew the 2001team was built for the season not the playoffs. In 2001 Lou wanted a SP but was turned down.
After he passed away the team became part of Nintendo America. There it was run like a business. They wanted profit over performance. We never knew what their bid looked like. They said for years we tried but got outbid. Your idea that nobody wanted to come here is not looking at the whole picture.
Why can’t they come up with a fix for this stupid error? Those posts were all made under appropriate comments but they all end up in one spot. Anyone that had the problem get it fixed? I even sent them an email to see if they had a fix but got no response.
I feel like Segura would be a nice add, won’t cost a whole lot because of his age but will provide a strong veteran presence in the infield
Except that Segura would almost certainly NOT want to sign with Seattle. Research Segura’s most recent Postseason comments in PHI about his (unpleasant) experience in Seattle. If you listen to those comments that doesn’t sound like a player who has the Mariners at the top of their list of preferred suitors
Yeah, Segura would go sign to play overseas before ever considering going back to Seattle (though granted it is a different front office than when he was there, the bad feelings still apparently remain).
I feel like Segura is probably heading to the Southside of Chicago, though the Orioles seem like a good possibility too
From what I’ve read, Segura’s departure from Seattle was rather contentious.
In ’22,
Kolten was a-Joltin’
But his D was revoltin’ .
Your not Wong about Kolten.
I mean, I’d like Wong and stuff, but the mariners need to add an impact bat at some point, and Wong just isn’t quite that. I think it’s got to be in the outfield if we do trade for Wong. Who do we go get?
Teoscar Hernandez
Teo and Yoshida
MN Him.
I expect the M’s to go the trade route to fill their 2B need. Saving their ammunition to go all-in on Shoehei Ohtani next season.
What size Shoehei does Ohtani wear?
Is thie language of 38 Budweisers?
All brewer fans are eager to see Turang I think. Keep hearing his name so why not.
Yeah and they will be disappointed. Wong had a great year with the bat and WAR wise and he will sure bounce back on the defensive side. I really hope we stick with him and ease Turang into his role and have him take the position in 24’.
Well thanks for your professional opinion
Turang project to be a utility player, if he sticks.
Any chance a LH hitting outfielder from Wisconsin would come back in a Wong trade with the Ms???
I doubt that but the M’s have a LH hitting outfielder from Buffalo they are looking to trade.
Doubtful. I think the M’s are still pretty high on him. Besides, is an OFer the best fit for the Crew? All their top prospects are OFers.
Jerry, for once can you please sign a free agent to fill the position rather than trade away more prospects to get Wong? Turner played 2B with the Dodgers, and if all else fails sign the big name at SS and move JP to 2B.
Secondly, wasn’t Segura a problem in the clubhouse last time he was on the team? Not sure if it was his fault or Dee Gordon’s, but there sure was animosity between the two that spread to the rest of the team.
toycannon;
To you and others that are posting here…..
Has it occurred to any of you that the Mariners have a budget?
Sorry, I know it’s Silly Season, but all teams have limitations…free agents aren’t free….and I’m not just talking about their salaries.
Will Kyle Lewis ever return to form? I know he can’t play 2nd Base, but he had a good small sample in 2019 and 2020.
Would like to see Lewis get a fresh start with another club. The Pirates could use a CF. Maybe San Diego can play him in LF or RF next to Grisham. The Cubs need a CF for a couple of years too, There’s talent there if he can stay helathy.
Lewis is never playing CF again. Should be corner OF\DH.
Nice to see the mariners team doctor could chime in
Mariners beat writer Corey Brock in The Athletic: “I have no idea what Lewis’ future holds with the Mariners — or if he has a future in Seattle at all. He’s limited in what he can do defensively, and only played in the field on a handful of occasions after he was sent to Triple-A Tacoma.” (With the Mariners last season, 3 games RF, 1 game LF, 11 games DH; with Tacoma, 8 games LF, 34 games DH.).
Well they did say right after the 2021 season ended that they weren’t expecting Lewis to contribute in the field much in 2022 and they would not play him in CF. They looked at him as DH and LF if he was even healthy enough to play. CF is basically what ruined him health wise. So Mariners FO and medical staff did chime in and say they don’t see him playing CF over a year ago.
I thought they were going to sign Bogaerts, Correa, Turner or Swanson and turn one of them into a second baseman. LOL. Kolten Wong. So far swapped Mitch Haniger ( who in my opinion was their second best player after Julio) for Teoscar, and now shopping for Kolten? Are these needle movers?
They are upgrades over Adam Frazier and Winker/Kelenic.
I don’t know. I liked Frazier ( good, pesky contact hitter) and I think the swap is with Haniger in right, bringing in Teoscar which I think is a wash at the very best. Kelenic is a walking strikeout machine and Winker is non consequential. Of course this is my opinion looking from outside.
Frazier was extremely streaky. Just when the hits started coming,it would end just when they needed him most. Playoffs were an exception. He came through big time! I have a gut feeling Haniger doesn’t want to play anywhere else.
They could still keep Haniger and primarily DH him to keep him healthy. I actually think that’s their best play. Teoscar, Haniger, and Suarez is a pretty stout middle of the order. Wong is a decent bounce back candidate offensively and defensively.
Was thinking the same thing. If they do wind up trading Winker, you could easily bring back Mitch to DH and play part time in the OF. You’d also be able to go after Yoshida who was JUST posted.
Second best player?! Give me a break! Maybe for one season….3 years ago! Haniger can’t stay on the field. He also couldn’t hit when he came back at the end of last season. Don’t judge the painting before it’s completed chum. Seattle has made leaps and bounds since Dipoto took over this mess from Zduerencik. The needle is pointed up, and you’re the only team left in our sights!
My point is Mariners won 90 games in 2021 and were 5 games behind the Stros. After the multitude of moves in the off-season and adding Julio Rodriguez the Mariners won 90 games in 2022 and were 16 games behind the Stros. I certainly believe DiPoto will make a bunch more moves but the result will be the same. He reminds me so much of Darryl Morey when he was with the Rockets and made multiple moves every year to end up second in the Western Conference to the Warriors. But hey maybe I’m wrong.
stroh;
B I N G O
A FO head can shuffle the ML roster only so long before players begin to feel they’ll be the next one to leave. Dipoto is coming off as a rotisserie league team owner that’s always looking for a shinier toy then the one he just got. Winning teams that come out of nowhere usually go back to nowhere quickly.
The Astros remain the team to beat, both in the AL West and MLB. Rather then the glitzy moves Dipoto makes I’m more impressed with the measured moves that Perry Minasian has been making with the Angeles for 3 years. At this point their pitching looks good – most importantly their coaches have been making the pitchers better. With all due respect to Julio Rodriguez, I’m taking Mike Trout in 2023 if he’s healthy – the man hit 40 HR’s in 2022 while missing 25% of the season. As for pitching, Luis Castillo anchors the Mariners staff, but Ohtani is just as good.
I believe that Ohtani wants to stay with the Angels, but will only do that if they prove they can win. For all the talk about the Mariners taking the next step, I believe the Angels will be coming out full force in 2023. I expect the AL West is about the supplant the AL East as the best AL division.
I respect your observation but I dont see the Angels making the playoffs next year even with the million wild cards. They need Trout, Ohtani, and Rendon to stay healthy and be super stars. Taylor Ward had a miracle first half and then imploded. Jo Adell is lost. The bullpen is meh especially after dealing iglesias. The rotation is much improved but youre relying on detmers, sandoval, suarez, and prospects to all be very good for a full season. Guys like rengifo, fletcher, and walsh as your starting infield and stassi at catcher? Thats not gonna cut it. Too much has to break right for the angels. They are doomed
Astros2017Champs;
I think your comments are pretty much what people see in the Angels,
The bullpen was not meh as the season was ending – it was very good. Yes they need a closer – they’ll get one or develop one. They dealt Iglesias because he wasn’t effective as a closer, they had 3 guys in the bullpen that were just as good. You’re repeating a narrative instead of looking at how the bullpen and team improved as the year went on (I went through this last year hearing how the Phillies bullpen was awful, yet I’m watching the games and they keep doing the job).
Stassi will not be the primary Catcher in 2023, Logan O’Hoppe will be getting playing time and possibly be taking over as the year goes on. Wouldn’t surprise me to see Stassi traded in-season. Long been tired of hearing about Adell – at some point the Angels will be brining in a bona fide LF. The need another middle infielder, and I believe those players will be rotated to keep them fresh. 1B and 3B look fine to me – again, they can make an in-season trade if needed.
It’s November 17. I don’t know how people can pass judgment on teams for 2023 at this point. There will be a lot of transactions between now ant the beginning of the season….and teams will be making endless transactions for 162 games. What I look for are which teams have players with upside remaining, along with a coaching staff that has a record of making their players better. The Angels staff did well with all the pitchers in 2022 – they need to bring along O’Hoppe and some of the infielders.
For the record Ward did not implode. He collided into the OF Wall and missed some time. It took him awhile to get his stroke back. Jo Adell is only 24. We’re hoping a new batting coach will help. The Angels aren’t doomed. Walsh had surgery. Fletch just has to stay healthy. You’re leaving out Ohtani and Anderson. And it’s November 17th lots of time to improve the team. No Stassi won’t be the primary Catcher. We need a LF. Maybe sign alone the top available SS’s and upgrade the BP. You the Astros have lost Verlander and your 1B among others.
The Mariners Pythagorean W/L record was 76-96 in 2021. They boosted that to 89-73 in 2022.
They were a much better and team. They were extremely lucky in 2021 to win all those games that they did. It happens. Dipoto’s moves largely made the team better.
Ray was better than the alternative. Eugenio Suarez was a boost at 3B. Luis Castillo was extremely impactful.
Winker was a flop but you simply don’t hit on every move.
I didn’t like Jerry for awhile but he’s reigned it in and done some smart things most recently.
Samuel-
I agree that Trout is better than Julio and if/when he comes back healthy in 2023 is poised for a monster year. I also agree that Ohtani and Castillo are a wash between the two team.
But the rest of Seattle’s rotation is much, much better than anything the Angels can trot out day to day. Outside of Verlander and DeGrom there is no one Anaheim can sign that will be better than Gilbert or even Kirby and their farm is not deep enough to pry an elite SP.
Ray who is only a year removed from the CY is the M’s #4 SP. Seattle also has a top 3 BP in MLB.
I expect Texas to sign at least 2 SP this off season. Angels are likely done after the Andersen signing(SP wise).
Honestly the AL West in 2023 is likely Houston/M’s/ Rangers/ Angels/ A’s.
The Los Angeles Angels entered the 2022 season with MLB’s longest current streak of consecutive losing seasons … and simply extended that streak this year with a dismal 73-89 record .
Streaks were made to be broken but it make take time.
marinersblue96;
Rotations don’t pitch against rotations. fielders don’t compete against fielders, and hitters don’t bat against hitters.
How teams play on the field with the players carrying out their individual responsibilities is all that matters.
If there was a statistical formula to determine which teams win the WS, everyone would have been following it decades ago.
Orioles2024;
I’m sort of aware of Pythagorean W/L record’s from years back. I’ll simply say that all statistical projections going into baseball seasons wind up terribly inaccurate.
It’s a win/loss record that is calculated AFTER the season so it’s not forward looking. Just an expected W/L record on what you actually did.
By no means perfect but they were clearly better via the eye test or numbers like that.
Samuel –
My point is the Angels roster just doesn’t measure up against Seattle’s especially pitching wise. The M’s have a deeper roster and better minor league system(not as vaunted as it once was but still better). I also believe the owner has hurt the Angels in developing a real direction of the team, the best thing for the franchise is for a new ownership group to lead.
Unless there is a drastic turn around there is no way that I see Ohtani is going to resign in Anaheim and why would Trout want to stick around for a tear down rebuild which is exactly what is needed.
Nov 17th and the Angels are done???? Seriously?
They’re going to sign another SP.
At least 3 BP arms
Aquire a OF and INF either by trade or FA.
Maybe your pitchers should learn how to pitch to Trout.
Angels sound like the Pirates…just a couple starting pitchers, 3 or more BP arms, an OF and INF and they could possibly be competitive
We’ll see in the end. He said we’d be competing for the Division exactly when he predicted we were going to begin rebuilding. So he hasn’t lead us astray as of yet.
Maybe Trout and the Angels better learn how not to cry on fastballs up and in.
Winslow –
Done in regards to adding top SP. Anderson is likely the main piece. Angels don’t have recent history of going after FA SP. I didn’t mean to imply for the entire roster.
Ben10-once again your wrong. They’ve gone after SP. Just lately outside of this year they haven’t panned out so well.
As I recall Winkler got bent when he got hit in the ass after the Mariners threw at Trouts head the night before.
Haniger when healthy would be the 2nd best player. Unfortunately, he never is healthy(outside of 1 year) Teoscar puts up similar numbers and you can pencil him in for 130 games. Their best capability is their availability. Plus he’s coming into his contract year he is going to want to get his payday.
The problem with Mitch wasn’t talent, it was availability and reliability. Kolten Wong would be a significant upgrade over Frazier. So in that sense, it moves the needle a bit. It’s not like they have to be done making roster moves after Hernandez and, if they even acquire him, Wong.
I am really hoping that the M’s trade for Andrés Giménez from the Guardians. they need pitching and I bet we could trade Flexen+prospect/cash for him. He’s young, cheap, plays great defense and batted almost .300. I would take him over all the fee agent SS – then they could spend money on the OF and Pitcher from Japan. Off-season over for the win!
Klattster;
LOL
Flexen+prospect/cash?
OK. Tell you what – Mariners throw in Julio Rodríguez and you can take your pick of Zach Plesac or Aaron Civale along with Giménez.
Ok, Flexen, Trammell and Zach Deloach for Gimenez – totally fair then
Not even close take your mariner homer glasses off
Klattster;
I don’t think you understand…..
Giménez and Bieber are pretty much untouchable to the Guardians. They have quality prospects coming out of their ears that they can’t find playing time for…..including more in the high minors…..they don’t need any more prospects…..they have a 40 man roster crunch.
Idk about that. Gimenez is more of a good player than MVP candidate. The underlying data shows you that.
If they could pull a fast one and get a ton back from a lousy organization for him. I’m sure they’d jump on it.
Orioles2024;
Screw the underlining data (whatever nonsense that refers to). I watch the games. As does the Guardians future HOF manager and recently awarded FO Exec of the Year.
Gimenez is the Guardians most valuable position player behind Jose Ramirez. At bat. In the field. On the bases.
He’s doing the same things for them that Francisco Lindor did when he was playing for the team.
He’s playing 2B so I wouldn’t say exactly the same. But—I’ll take you word for it. Just don’t think there’s a budding star there.
Good quality player in a great organization is what I see.
Orioles2024;
He also plays SS when Rosario is resting or DH’ing. If they trade Rosario he moves to SS next year.
Gimenez is a budding star, and was selected to to All-Star game by he manager in spite of Cleveland have another representative. Murmurs from Mets fans and media are that they’re a bit upset that he was included in the Lindor trade – and many are commenting that they would have been better of in 2022 with Gimenez than Lindor.
I also watch a lot of Orioles games. I’m tired of telling people that Jorge Mateo is an excellent SS; that Ramon Urias is an excellent 3B; that Anthony Santander led the team in RBI’s and that he doesn’t need to be traded (believe Elias said the same recently); that the bullpen is fantastic and was built from rejected pitchers; and that the starting pitching is fine, they could use an arm but they have a number of pitchers that are OK and can easily get much better….and then we get to the outstanding prospects that Brandon Hyde has to make playing time for…..same as Francona and the Guardians.
Mateo’s good.
DiPoto and his staff did some good things. Turned Swanson into a stud reliever and a few others. Looks like he has confidence to do the same with more.
I’m with you on Mateo and the O’s 100%
Urias just doesn’t have a slot here anymore. He’s great defensively but Gunnar is a potential superstar who can field his position.
I say if Milwaukee can get a relief pitcher back in return go for it. I wouldn’t even be surprised if Milwaukee even throws in a relief pitcher in on the deal like Gustave, Milner, or Gott .
That would be foolish. Then again, my guess is you want the entire Brewer roster to look like you.
Sounds like none of the four shortstops are willing to move to 2B Jerry. You just gotta keep trying to cram that square peg in the round hole, dontcha!
Meh. Maybe on a one year. I just don’t think we’d be imposing enough up the middle with JP and Wong. And JP ain’t going anywhere
If the Mariners are punting interest in the shortstop market in deference to Crawford then they deserve to be as mediocre as possible. It’s absolute malpractice to have a readily available upgrade and dismiss it over thoughts and clubhouse feelings. Slide JP over and sign somebody that can really hit. Simple.
Dshires4, I am a diehard M’s fan and I agree 100%. Nothing says “Oh well, maybe we’ll catch Houston in ’24 or ’25” more than punting on one of the “big four” shortstops and settling on Wong as a solution to… well, to anything, really.
Why use trade capital on a player that doesn’t really solve any problems for them (at least on paper)? I’m not the GM and I don’t know any of the hidden details, but from a fan’s perspective I think they should have better players in mind than Wong. They have desirable trade chips and they have payroll space. If the M’s want to be taken seriously it’s time to make deals that put the baseball world on notice, instead of making deals that are sideways moves or that don’t solve their main issue (offense). I don’t believe Wong is a special player or that he would do much better than Frazier (although I admit I was one of the fans who groaned when the M’s acquired Suarez along with Winker). None of us know what GMs are thinking, we just have ideas about what they are likely to do… so please, Jerry. No fading veterans, questionable commodities, or scrap-heap rescues.
All this says is Mariners are interested. He’s not their plan A. Its much easier for M’s to trade for players than sign big FA in Seattle. Seattle can’t just say they want Turner or Swanson and he’s theirs. They have to go above and beyond NY or LA to get a top of line FA. I’m sure they’d love any of those top guys and are probably willing to pay them but you have to get someone that actually wants to go to the city of Seattle. for several years.
Being interested in average players that don’t move the needle is the entire problem.
This is not a charade. We need total concentration. The Mariners need a Fistful of Yen and acquire Mr. Wong.
Seems people are forgetting, Seattle is NOT going to just up their budget 90 million in one fail swoop! They have Cal, and Logan, Kirby, France just to name a few that will cost them more money in future. FA is ok but Jeesh guys let’s get on the reality train here, FA is doing the overpay and then hope your not burned at end, which for some peeps, that’s ok? That is not how great teams operate. Dipoto has repeated over and over that he does not like the FA route all that much! He is building a great core and they should be playoff bound for many years! Look at who we are trying to catch, Astro’s do not go out and spend huge amounts on FA and that is not going to happen with Seattle. Trades is where they will get the players they need, then if they are happy with them all things considered, sign them to extension. You guys need to chill out on the signing of FA.
Tell your Fellow Mariner faithful no Ohtani. It’s a pipe dream.
Why is it a pipe dream? I’m almost positive Stanton would sign off on a major contract for another Japanese superstar. It’s not like Judge, who is truly a pipe dream. Seattle finished second to Anaheim the first time around for his services, are in a winning position (which is said to be his main priority), would surely meet his contract demands, looks up to Ichiro, would be in one of the best cities for AAPI people, and by all accounts, isn’t as intrigued by the big city aspect as most players. He’s said to be expected to follow his heart.
Ohtani wants 40 million a year. It’s a pipe dream
The M’s could easily do that. And how do you know that’s how much he wants? I could see it being even more. Which the M’s could still do.
Your run to playoffs was fueled by the brawl they had with the Angels. They bonded and went on a run. Without that hot streak they would have never made the post season. Now Dipoto has to ask himself,Are the Mariners that good? Or was it because of winning streak that resulted from the brawl?
I mean, I would say that the Mariners winning was more fueled by the fact that they had one of the best rotation ERA’s in the league, a top 5 bullpen in all of baseball, and a top 5 defense in all of baseball. The winning streak helped, but they were on pace for exactly what they did in 2021 at that point too.
In short… yes, they are good. And, they have a much better long term future than most other teams, including ones like the Yankees. Young, talented core with a mix of guys like JRod, Raleigh, Gilbert, and Kirby to go along with veterans like Castillo and Ray.
If you’re an Angels fan, then you’re in even worse shape. It’s not a coincidence that after DiPoto left Anaheim, you have 7 straight years of sub-.500 records while the Mariners have turned into what they are. Like it or not, the Angels’ biggest mistake was not trading Ohtani at the deadline
in 2022. There is no way Ohtani re-signs there, and his comments have alluded to exactly that. And now, Angels fans are going to watch him walk after 2023 for a comp pick instead a massive haul that would have jumpstarted a rebuild.
Lmao, it was not. We actually lost the next 2 or 3 after the brawl. The April and May schedule was brutal and most Mariners fans thought they would sit around .500 entering June. The team got healthy, got a softer portion of the schedule facing teams they should beat, and turned it around.
No team starts winning just because of a brawl. It’s ridiculous to think so. This team bonded from the 2021 season. Besides, the argument from many outside sources is that the team doesn’t like Winker. So which is it? They bonded through sticking up for him during the brawl or they hate him and it means nothing? Can’t be both.
Angels still have a chance to trade him and get a haul at the deadline this year but it definitely will not be what it would have been this year. But he will not be an Angel in 2024. He basically told them he wants to win and put them on notice and they go out and surround two of the best players in baseball with signing Tyler Anderson. Basically have Ohtani and bunch of 5th starters.
No you didn’t lose the next 2or3. You lost one 1 then you went on a winning streak. Teams come together when they fight. It builds comadarie.
Logan gilbert and george kirby are filthy. Luis castillo is their ace. Dipoto is probably already regretting the robbie ray contract. That money could of gone to one of these star shortstops. Jp crawford just doesn’t move the needle for me. He has to ozzie smith to make up his shortcomings with the bat.
Mariners,
Kolten Wong is a half measure. You nailed it by getting Teoscar, now go fully in and get a premium shortstop.
You cannot go into next year with a middle infield of Crawford/Wong. You’d just be treading water offensively. You are JP’s boss! Moving him to 2B is best for him and the organization.
Most likely none of the premier SS want to come here.
Besides, Seattle has big bopper at third, catcher, CF, cof and possibly a med bopper with 20hrs in France. Add Wong with 15hrs and we have enough boppers, we can still win big withWong at second!
Tizzi- I don’t think you’re wong is your assessment.
Kolten Wong is uninspiring to say the least. This move would be Adam Frazier 2.0, then next year we get to try to find another 2B all over again! Dipoto has been after Wong for several offseasons now, I guess he won’t stop until he gets him.
Adam Frazier – .Career .273/.336/.728
Kolten Wong – .Career .261/.334/.732
I know a lot of Mariners fans are not excited about Kolten Wong when there are 4 really good SS’s avail in FA. However I’m glad the M’s are being realistic – they know that there will be many contending teams (w deep pockets) involved in FA. There is a huge drop off in talent after the handful of premium FA’s at the SS position. There’s the 4 big names- Correa, Turner, Bogaert and Swanson. After those players the next best FA SS (according to the Athletics Top 10 FA SS list) is 34 yr old Elvis Andrus w a 103 OPS+ Of the next 5 SS’s -(3 x) 33 yr olds in Jose Iglesias, DiDi Gregorius and Andrelton Simmons and two 32 yr olds in Alydemis Diaz and Johnathan Villar. Not a single one of them were above League average in OPS+
Kolten Wong actually had a higher OPS+ (118) than Dansby Swanson (115) Of course Wong’s SLG % is lower than Swanson- he is a different type of INF than Dansby. Still exploring a trade with MIL is just good business. They have to keep all their options open in this mostly limited FA class.
If the Mariners go the trade route, I still wouldn’t mind seeing them go after Ketel Marte. I still think the DBacks would be a good fit for either Marco or Flexen, and it would actually offset the salaries of both as well. Plus, I don’t think it would take a ton more from our side as well.
I haven’t run it through a trade simulator, but something like Marco/Flexen and Trammell for Marte and like Kyle Nelson or another reliever would be my rough trade proposal.
I’m sure the M’s will be looking at more than a couple of trade options to fill their 2B hole.
Do they need to spend upwards of $200M at the SS position when they are favorites to land one of the best SS’s in a generation- Felnin Celestino. An International Draft SS prospect who is currently being rated higher than Wander Franco. If (when) they sign Felnin Celestino the M’s would only need to sign a 2B or SS to a 2-3 yr deal at the most. Allowing them to go after a B Nimmo or the NPB LH OFer Masataka Yoshida
Ketel Marte is an intriguing name that fits that 2-3 yr window. It would be interesting to see what type of package it would take to lure him back to Seattle.
Felnin Celestin***
I feel the only free agents Seattle will sign are Josh Bell and the guy from Japan. They need LH bats with power and contact skills. They both fit the mold. I’ve mentioned before Seattle trades to fill holes not sign big ticket free agents and it still holds true. Ya people will point out Robbie Ray but pitching is a different animal in Seattle compared to signing a big bat. The Ray deal I feel was a pressure move to appease the fan base because they completely whiffed on getting the big bat that they said they where after with their big pocket book wide open but only came away with a pitcher. This lineup needs a big LH bat and Bell fits the price and years Seattle will likely feel comfortable spending and that is even if Bell is willing to play in Seattle. Still feel Marco or Flexin is a fit for the Twins and Royce Lewis is a guy Dipoto is looking for.
Bell is my wishlist bat as well!
Bell is also on my Brewer wishlist.
I agree- I dont see them signing one of those 4 sexy FA SS’s, or any big FA hitter for that matter. I think they will pursue a LH hitter, but more along the lines of a Benintendi or the switch-hitting J Profar for example.
I have trouble seeing them spending the capital on Josh Bell when they already have a LH under contract to fill the DH spot- Jesse Winker. Josh Bell would cost a lot more than the $8M on Winkers contract. You also wouldn’t move Ty France off 1B just to accommodate Bell- there’s nowhere to put France on a FT basis and I believe he is a better 1B than Bell.
I know Winker had a down year but if you look at Bell’s numbers in Petco Park after the deadline, he had a big drop off from his 1st half numbers. Petco Park is quite a bit smaller than T-Mobile too!
They’re not counting on Winker as a power bat or DH, that’s why they’re shopping him. Remember they had Santana playing the same time France was and Bell can step in as a Santana in the lineup just as easy. Since Bell is also a switch hitter the 10-13m per year isn’t far off of what Winker would’ve been paid when he gets traded.
The only thing the M’s FO is “counting on” with Winker is…unless they find the right trade partner, Jesse Winker being in ST camp with Seattle.
There is no guarantee they will part with Winker. Look at how they held on to Haniger over the last 2-3 offseasons- everyone was sure the M’s would trade him. Ppl on this site were adamant he was gone. If the terms of the contract suit Seattle there’s still a chance the Ms could bring back Haniger. Teo in LF Haniger in RF. Both Dipoto and Hollander are still in touch with Hanigers agent.
I digress….Could Winker get traded? Of course… but if your FO can’t find the right fit for the LH bat they desire this offseason there is no need to trade Winker for the sake of trading him. He had a down year in 2022 but how much of that was injuries? 2018-2021 Jesse Winker is a valuable bat for any lineup.
Mariners have publicly left open the door for JP to move to 2B. Jerry has publicly stated that if they sign one of the big 4 SS, JP is moving. He wasn’t good at SS last year. Don’t believe they won’t try to sign a SS. Wong is fine, but there are inaccuracies in this article on Wong and the Mariners. Also, Jean Segura systematically destroyed the clubhouse in SEA prior to be traded away for Crawford. I seriously doubt they are looking to sign Segura. Mentioning Segura at all fails to consider the animosity between the parties (Segura and Flash Gordon got into a fist fight in the clubhouse for god’s sake). TRex Segura is not a good clubhouse guy
” TRex Segura is not a good clubhouse guy”
Eric the Pilot;
He was in Philadelphia the last 4 years. His teammates and the fans loved him.
I’m wondering if the Brewers would be willing to part with Adames. He’s getting expensive – 9.2M arb salary per Matt Swartz. And they seem to want to shed salary, so he could be an option for teams who don’t want to wade into the deep end of the FA pool, yet still obtain a good shortstop with power. And his intangibles are off the charts – leadership, etc. What do other commenters think?
No way. He’s way too cheap and valuable, particularly in the clubhouse. Further, they have no better immediate replacements. Bryce Tourang may not hit MLB pitching.
Wasn’t a lack of the intangibles Adames brings (leadership, etc.) cited as a reason by some — including Lo Cain — for the disappointing end of the season? Sure, there are directly correlating performance factors, like the “long-ball, K, or nothing!” offense, but intangibles do play an important role in whether teams succeed or not, you know? (And that holds true for teams outside the realm of sports as well.)
Besides, isn’t Adames one of the team’s better offensive players? I know MKE is a small market and the FO is limited in what they can do with the team’s payroll, but his projected arbitration amount isn’t unreasonable for what he brings to the table (without considering any intangibles). I’m obviously not the GM and my opinion is just that, my opinion, but I think it makes sense to keep him since the club does not seem to be going in on a full teardown at this time.
Mariners should make a run at Bogaerts and move Crawford to 2B. Bogey won’t be as expensive as Turner or Correa, and his bat would finally give the M’s a legitimate offense to go along with their excellent pitching staff.
This was a much more confusing and difficult article to read thinking they were talking about keston hiura the whole time.
Of course as fans we all prefer for the M’s to sign one of the premium SS and shift JP to 2B. But if the trade route is how the M’s prefer to address the need for LHH/SH middle infield, Brandon Lowe or Jorge Polanco seem like much snazzier targets.
I wouldn’t mind if the Brewers traded Wong for Kelenic to bring the Wisconsin guy home. They could then target Justin Turner at 3B and slide Urias to 2B. The potential loss of Renfroe’s bat will likely be significant so they’ll need to supplement the acquisition of Kelenic with some additional pop in the OF. Especially with Yelich pretty well set in his decline.
Yeah, perhaps also turn the official Brewers colors into white, white, and redneck. No to Turner and Urias is the one who should be on his way out of Milwaukee. Of course, if you had your way the Brewer roster would be composed of 12 Rowdy Tellez types and 13 Brandon Woodruff look-alikes.
Weird flex, casually calling fans racist cuz they wanna trade a player. Seek help
Perhaps you don’t understand a certain mindset among a large number of “Brewer fans” who usually tend to want certain types of players traded for or away and typically blame a type of player for the team’s difficulties. Or want the makeup of the “team” to look a certain way. That way often being a typical Northwoods tavern softball team. It’s also not only the “fans” of WI teams that have that mindset in WI.
So, let’s not pretend it’s not an issue or it doesn’t exist!
And yet here you are calling for Urias to be traded. So I guess that makes you a redneck that wants an all white team too.
☺️
I haven’t been a fan of Urias since they acquired him as a supposed replacement for Arcia. I stand by my comments.
Sounds like something a racist would say.
@bigben74 Says someone who apparently doesn’t think there’s an issue and perhaps uses projection to ignore it.
Lol you’re the one projecting pal. I’m just using your rules against you. Baselessly accusing people of racism cuz they wanna trade a player. Pretty fun! You seem fun ☺️