The MLBPA issued a press release today, announcing four new entrants to free agency. Three of them were already reported upon, as Jordan Lyles, Tommy Pham and Mychal Givens all had options turned down by their respective clubs recently. The fourth was Justin Verlander, indicating he has opted out of his deal with the Astros.
Verlander, who turns 40 in April, will now be one of the most interesting free agents in recent memory. He has a track record of success that goes back almost two decades now, with his MLB debut coming back in 2005. Tommy John surgery ended his 2020 after just a single outing and then prevented him from pitching at all in 2021. Despite two effectively lost seasons, the Astros still issued him a qualifying offer a year ago, but then they quickly agreed to a new contract. It was a two-year, $50MM deal, split into $25MM per season, that allowed Verlander to opt out after 2022 as long as he pitched 130 innings on the year.
Despite Verlander’s age and long layoff, he showed little sign of slowing down. He largely stayed healthy, making one trip to the injured list due to a calf injury which only cost him about two weeks. He was able to make 28 starts, logging 175 innings and posting an incredible 1.75 ERA, easily his career best. He probably wasn’t quite as dominant as it might seem from that ERA, since his 27.8% strikeout rate was a few ticks below where it had been prior to the TJS. But he still kept his walks down to 4.4% and only allowed 12 home runs on the year, a personal low over a full season. He’s the favorite for the AL Cy Young as awards season approaches and will now be among the most sought after free agent pitchers, alongside Jacob deGrom and Carlos Rodón.
Based on his excellent season, opting out seemed to be a fairly straightforward choice for Verlander. If he got a $50MM guarantee after two straight lost years, why settle for $25MM on the heels of an excellent year? Given that he’s now 40, he won’t be able to secure a long-term deal, but he’s said in the past that he hopes to pitch until he’s 45. Just about any team in the league would love to have Verlander on their team for one year, with many surely willing to go to two years.
Perhaps the closest thing to a recent comparison is the deal between Max Scherzer and the Mets. It’s not a perfect comp, since Scherzer was 37 at the time, a few years younger than the soon-to-be-40 Verlander. But like Verlander, he was managing to pitch at an ace-like level into an age when pitchers usually find themselves fighting the passing of time and all of its sickening crimes. He and the Mets agreed to a short-term deal with a high average annual value, coming in at three years and $130MM. That works out to an AAV of $43.333, with Scherzer also securing an opt out after 2023. Verlander’s situation isn’t perfectly analogous but he will likely be fielding offers that are somewhat similar.
Of course, not all teams will be willing to pay that kind of money, but short-term, high-AAV deals can sometimes bring unlikely suitors to the table. One year ago, Carlos Correa was looking to top $300MM on a contract around ten years in length. When it didn’t materialize, he pivoted towards a shorter deal with a higher annual salary. The Twins, who likely were never going to consider the lengthy pact Correa sought, suddenly jumped into the fray and got Correa to put pen to paper, though they also had to give him multiple opt-out opportunities. Last year, the Yankees, Red Sox and Blue Jays reportedly offered Verlander strong deals before he agreed to return to Houston. They and many other teams will surely consider the same this winter.
The Astros will undoubtedly look to re-sign Verlander yet again, on the heels of their second World Series title. However, they are one of the few teams that arguably don’t strictly need him, though any team would of course be improved by his presence. Even without Verlander, the rotation is still in healthy shape, as Framber Valdez, Lance McCullers Jr., Cristian Javier, Luis Garcia, José Urquidy and Hunter Brown are all still present. Still, it wouldn’t be a shock to see Verlander and the team re-up on a new deal and the club then using their strong rotation to upgrade elsewhere. It was recently reported that they had a deal lined up at the deadline to send Urquidy to the Cubs for Willson Contreras. Although owner Jim Crane reportedly nixed that deal, it shows that the club is at least aware that it has lots of starting pitching and is willing to consider trading from it.
Rocker49
Him and Crane are BFF’s so I’m sure some sort of deal is worked out.
CaptainJudge99
We all know he’s not leaving Houston.
thunderecho
JV will follow in the footsteps of Cole, Keuchel, Morton, Josh Musgrove, etc, that departed the Astros via free agency or trade.
Astros could potential head into next season with over 30 players developed on their farm system which will be a MLB record.
Click rebuilt the scouting department and minor league operations (which Luhnow gutted).
Astros now invest heavily in their minor league operations;
– paid housing for minor leaguers
– roving instructors for all teams.
– robust medical operations
– upgraded team facilities
– minor league analytics department
Going forward, Astros will prioritize signing homegrown players to extensions like Alvarez and will not be active in the free agent market.
Verlander may still sign with the Astros BUT the team will 1st look to allocate those resources to Tucker and Valdez.
Astros pitching depth is the greatest in franchise history. They will replace Rafael Montero with either JP France or Chad Dubin. Dubin hits triple digits consistently when pitching in relief.
Dubin is a lot like RHP Bryan Abreu (when he was in the minors). ERA over 5.00 as a starter and ERA under 2.00 as a reliever,
Dubin hits 102 mph and low 90s on his slider. His change and curve are low-grade (disaster) pitches.
King Floch
Come home to the Chesapeake region and sign with the Orioles, Justin!
And make sure you bring Kate with you 😉
astick
I would go on a date with her if she wanted.
King Floch
I could probably be coerced into doing so too. I’m generous like that XD
gorav114
That much money I would rather see them pursue Rodon. Even though it is tempting just to see Kate hanging around
King Floch
Zero interest in Rodon for me, he has only ever come close to posting healthy, productive seasons in contract years. I’d much rather sign a better pitcher to a shorter (and therefore less risky) deal.
davidkaner
Not a chance! He’s playing for World Series contenders only. No Tigers or Orioles. Dodgers, Seattle, both New York teams, Minnesota for one year & 50 million is a possibility
King Floch
Minnesota is coming of a worse season than Baltimore, and that was with Carlos Correa, who is unlikely to re-sign there. If they are in play, then so are the Orioles.
Rsk3228
DD get on this. Verlander, Wheeler, Nola, Ranger, Painter/McGarry.
miggywrld
Scott Harris bring this man home!
Astros2017&22Champs
Zero percent chance he goes back to detroit imo. He loves Detroit but Verlander wants 300 wins badly. He has no chance at that there. Sad for yall but its reality.
One Bite Hotdog
At his current age, no matter where he lands, getting the 56 wins to reach that milestone is unlikely. We’re talking five 20 win seasons, and he’s still 6 wins shy of the mark
Throw Like a Girl
Math is hard, I get it…
jixter33
By my math he needs four 14 wins seasons to hit 300 wins right on the nose at the end of the 2026 season…unlikely but not totally out of the realm of possibility.
Astros2017&22Champs
What does that have to do with him wanting it? Absolutely nothing. And 5 20 win seasons is 100 wins. Almost double what he needs. Your comment makes no sense whatsoever
put it in the books
Lol come on man
avenger65
Some people doubted that Pujols would reach 700 hr.
itsgonnahappen
@Throw Like a Girl
This made me laugh! Thanks
JPR
I’m sure you meant five 10 win seasons 🙂
Melchez17
One Bite… and he’s 40 years old… after 5 years he’s going to be in his 60’s.
dirkg
One Bite versus my 7-year-old in a Mathathon. Damn close I tell you. Damn close.
One Bite Hotdog
Yeah, I don’t know where I was going with that 20 wins/season nonsense. Oppsie. @JPR, thanks for the kind correction. to my typo.
dragonfan96
He said he would end his career with Detroit. And they going into a new direction. He can be the anchor of the staff and he and fetter and the new kids a thing or two.
whyhayzee
Nolan Ryan won 63 in his age 41 to age 46 seasons. Who knows?
One Bite Hotdog
Fair point
rememberthecoop
No surprise here. He will get a deal similar to Max. Only question is, will any team give him 3 years?
itsgonnahappen
Probably 2 with an option.
YankeesBleacherCreature
….vested. And falls slightly beneath Scherzer’s AAV.
DodgerOK
He’s probably jealous of Max’s avg yearly salary.
rct
I wouldn’t say jealous but he has to see Max’s deal and the predictions for deGrom’s deal and think, why not me? If deGrom can possibly get $40+ million over multiple years, Verlander will get it as well.
clubber_lang84
2/80, maybe 2/90 so he gets highest annual.
King Floch
If I was running the Orioles, I’d be beating down his door with a 2/$90mil offer the second free agency officially opens. They have zero long term commitments and their young core isn’t going to be all that expensive for the next few years, so it shouldn’t be a problem from a payroll standpoint. Plus he’s originally from next door in Virginia, so that might hold some appeal to him if he still has family and friends there.
jawinks
Based on his wife’s work I would guess being close to a major city with a modeling industry would be fairly high on his priority list
King Floch
Sure, that could definitely be another consideration, but NYC is only a 4ish hour drive from Baltimore, and I am not sure Houston or Detroit are known for their booming modeling industries.
rct
Baltimore is like a 1 hour flight to JFK Airport, and that’s commercial. I’m sure Verlander uses private charters as well.
jjd002
They have their own private jet.
C Yards Jeff
Kate’s a Yanks fan, yes?
rememberthecoop
Yeah, you would think that the O’s would be willing to spend at the top of the market. But from recent reports, while they will be active, it doesn’t appear that they want to spend like that.
King Floch
Mike Elias is very new school and short term, high AAV contracts for elite players are all the rage these days, so it’s possible that he would lobby ownership to go that route, and John Angelos, unlike his father Peter, seems to be pretty deferential to his baseball ops department.
To be clear though, I do not actually expect it to happen. But it really should.
osfandan
I totally agree. Our payroll is non-existent. We could sign Verlander, a big bat, and some bullpen help and probably still come in under $100M.
King Floch
Probably a smidge over $100 million by my rough calculations, assuming $40-45mil for the current 2023 payroll, $45mil for JV, $12-15mil for someone like Josh Bell (as an example), and $6-8mil for an established bullpen arm, but the Orioles were running a payroll north of $150 million during our last competitive period in the mid 2010s so I don’t think ~$105-110 million is an unreasonable ask, especially when almost half of it would come off the books after 2024 in this scenario.
PKCasimir
Baltimore is a crime ridden, filthy city with virtually no high paying modeling or media opportunities and high taxes. The historically cheap Baltimore franchise can’t pay Verlander enough to move there.
King Floch
Okay.
osfandan
Lol as if Verlander is going somewhere based on Kate Upton’s proximity to modeling? Get real. She can get to NY in less than 1.5 hrs from here. They wouldn’t be living IN Baltimore either. But I’m assuming you know nothing about the area anyway.
osfandan
Also when is the last time Kate Upton even modeled? Didn’t she attempt to jump to acting 5 years ago or so? Anyway like my friend here said I don’t think it will happen but it certainly could and makes sense.
BigFred
Somebody’s been watching “The Wire”.
YankeesBleacherCreature
“When you come at the king, you best not miss.” One of my fav shows of all-time.
King Floch
He clearly knows nothing about the organization since he seems to believe that Peter Angelos is still calling the shots lol.
Longtimecoming
I don’t see 3 years but yeah, a Max deal is in the works with some team feeling like Verlander is the last piece to the puzzle. Any team that needs 2 (or more) pieces should NOT participate.
nickatl
Detroit reunion…
Rocker49
Depends if he wants to win more rings or not. Stays in Houston if he wants to win, goes back to Detroit for nostalgia.
hiflew
With his money, he can buy as much jewelry as he wants.
stroh
It’s gonna take Scherzer’s AAV and length to sign him. Crane / Stros will make a play but not sure Crane will go the length. The Stros would certainly like him back but can afford to let him go.
Logistics Guy
Chicago White Sox Kenny & Jerry are already have breakfast with Him & Kate
3 years 100 Million
xXTheFETTXx
Why’d he want to go to the mess that is the White Sox?
King Floch
ChiSox are already facing a pretty significant payroll crunch, hard to see them being players for him unless he’s willing to agree to massive deferrals.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
That’s probably not enough money considering the year he just had. You’re talking more like 2/$75M with a vesting option.
avenger65
Chicago fits the requirement for a big city, the Sox don’t fit the bill for Justin if he wants 300 wins.
TJT88
Straight green if you ask me. How much more money can this man want? 2 rings with Houston. Not far removed from major surgery. Should have opted in.
xXTheFETTXx
Because he’s won two rings with Houston. He only has a few years left, why not get paid?
King Floch
He just completed a season that will almost certainly net him another Cy Young award, he’s going to have ZERO trouble topping 1/$25mil from a contender, both in terms of value and length. Why on Earth wouldn’t he do that?
rct
Why opt in? He had one year remaining at $25 million. He’ll easily increase the AAV and length on the open market, and probably by a lot.
Champs64
I think he will want to stay in Houston if he wants to add to his Win record. However that can be achieved elsewhere. Money cannot be his only motivation, he has earned nearly 300 million already. Kate ultimately decides where they will live and play going forward.
Astrosfn1979
This is the most obvious decision of the off season so far.
That said, Jim Crane will give him whatever he wants to stay and it’s in JVs best interest to stay as well.
I predict a 3 yr $125M deal w/ a 4th yr player option for $20M and b/u of $10M.
It guarantees JV $135 for 3 years, besting the Scherzer deal, keeps the AAV at $36.25M ( saving $8.75M per) to help Astros fill other spots, and guarantees him a 4th year to get 300 wins if his age shows and he can’t get a better deal at age 43.
It’s the same model they used to sign Odorizzi but stay under the CBT.
stroh
I just don’t think Crane will go for the 3rd year. The Odorizzi deal was terrible and so the same mistake won’t be made. Having said that JV is no Odorizzi.
cwsOverhaul
Houston is too smart to give any player “whatever they want”. That is the key to sustained success. They trust their own development to overcome departures and wisely reallocate $$ if the market wants to desperately pay one of its stars for too long a term.
Longtimecoming
Houston has let some go end talent leave latterly and has obviously won a title doing it.
That said, I think Houston is in the best position to overpay (if you elect to consider it that) for JV just because they won in 2022 with him so, regardless of developed talent, they are in the best position (opposed to other team) to win in 23 by keeping him.
It’s just money spent for a title opportunity. A high AAV 2 year deal is not going to disrupt the supply chain or tax the long term plans of the team.
The same just can’t be said for a lot of other teams that need more pieces (and didn’t win a title in 22 / trying to build a title team) so, I think Houston is the answer. 2/90 or 2/100 – the difference doesn’t affect the team but losing him does create a big doubt in the rotation by moving 5 to 4 and 4 to 3 etc.
Unless you want to replace him with DeGrom which then throw out what I said.
utah cornelius
It’s all about the budget and whether he fits.
utah cornelius
I’m sure he fits at $25M, but does he fit at $40M or $45M? I admit I don’t know. That’s why I’m asking.
daveb1
The Astros can win 100 plus without Verlander. They can do much more important things with his money.
StrongPermGame
He had a great year, but I wonder if anyone is going to give him any length on a contract.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
I think he’ll get two years with a club option on a third that vests as a player option if he gets a certain number of starts.
StrongPermGame
I wonder if it will be a vesting option on a second or third year? However i can see him getting two guaranteed. Just seems unwise with his injury history and age
LGStros
Not surprised at all. I think he remains in Houston on a 2 year deal.
Astrosfn1979
Crane has a total man crush on him.
JV is not like any other player to him. He will go over the CBT to sign him.
And he looks at JVs salary as separate from the rest of the team’s budget.
VonPurpleHayes
Mets going to get deGrom and Verlander. Get the best albeit oldest and highest risk rotation in baseball.
I don’t really believe this, but let’s have some fun.
stroh
DeGrom is great but really high risk. The guy hasn’t even pitched 100 innings in the last 3 years!!!
User 401527550
To be honest nobody pitched 100 innings three years ago. He wasn’t injured that year so stop using that as a negative.
dlw0906
If we’re going that route then they definitely need to bring back Big Sexy to fill out the rotation, maybe kick the tires on Anibal Sanchez as well. Go old or go home.
30 Parks
Perhaps Verlander and Hollywood Kate will pull-a-Gretzky and head to LA (damn you Janet Jones). Dodgers should still be kicking themselves for not acquiring Verlander in 2017.
Orbit
They seriously need to consider moving LMJ to the bullpen. He can’t stay healthy on a starters workload. He’d be perfect as a closer or a setup. Maybe even a piggyback.
itsgonnahappen
They cant pay him that much to not be a starter, but I don’t disagree with you. He’d be nasty in one inning stints.
greatgame 2
How could Lyles have been paid a total of $34M having a career 5.10 ERA? Ridiculous
BigFred
The Dodgers are looking for starting pitching and always seem to have a few dollars to spare.
YaGottaBelieve
Be a nice addition to the M’s! Castillo, Ray, Verlander, Gilbert, Kirby — now THAT’S a rotation!
Plugnplay
He’s the last thing the M’s need. A couple more impact bats is all they need. Spend there.
WSnotAstros2017
I could see moving Lance to the bullpen. Where do Urquidy and Garcia totally fit. Seemed they had up and down games. Is Hunter going to be a full starter or be like Javier use here for a while and then bullpen, then when need more pitching or such bring back to rotation. But after the short season McCullers had was it wise to bring him back. He did not have great stuff. Used a lot of pitches to batters. I hope a Verlander remains. They love to talk on his and Browns pitching delivery. His age not sure what will get. Does he have 2 more years in him at least. But will watch and see what the team will look like.
First will be most likely will Click sign a one year deal. Myself do not like those deals. A GM you need multiple years. Need to gather your staff under you etc. why sign a one year if could be gone right out of gate if someone you got during off season does not bring to your team what you thought. Or does Click pick right choices at least in Cranes mind
Astrosfn1979
I don’t think the bullpen suits McCullers.
Due to injury history/concern, I think they view him as a pitcher that needs a routine and can’t pitch every 3 days much less back to back days.
That makes him a liability in the bullpen.
Not to mention his salary would make him one of the top 10 highest paid relievers in baseball and not even the closer.
Him in the bullpen would be viewed as a massively bad deal.
sufferforsnakes
Greed is disgusting.
vtadave
Jealous?
TroyVan
He just wants his piece of the pie. Can’t blame him.
LordD99
Greed is human nature.
utah cornelius
Some people can sublimate it. Not many, but some.
Unclenolanrules
Greed huh. You mean being paid what you’re worth?
tiredolddude
“What you’re worth” is a funny comment. I get your point. If the market is willing to pay it and he’s top flight, then he’s worth it
But being a dinosaur, I tend to put that comment into the broader view. So many people do worthwhile jobs and professional athletes have such contracts
The world’s priorities are out of whack
prov356
Huh? Only people who don’t have a skill to earn them a ton of money say that. I would bet all I have that if you were offered a $30m a year job, you would jump to sign the contract.
Astrosfn1979
There are 3 pitchers that teams can use as models for JV going into his 40s.
All former Astros.
Nolan Ryan won 71 games in his 40s. Pitched 200+ innings ages 40-43 and 173 innings at age 44. ERA title at age 40 and 2 no hitters in his 40s.
Randy Johnson won 16+ games in 30+ starts and 200+ innings in ages 40-42. After an injurycshirtened age 43 season he returned to start 30 games again in a productive but motvgreat age 44 season.
Roger Clemens (though aided?) Started 30+ games with 200+ innings in ages 40-42. He was an All star each season, won the CY Young at 41 and ERA title at 42.
I see JV as this kind of a pitcher. Takes care of himself knows how to pitch and is hyper-competitive.
I think he can be counted on to be good for 3+ more seasons.
TroyVan
He’s not leaving Houston. It’s a necessary procedure to get them to up his salary. He’s as much of an icon in Houston as he is in Detroit. They will pay him what he wants. Other teams will not be in the mix for his services.
King Floch
I think this is the most likely outcome by far, but not necessarily a foregone conclusion.
Rsox
I think he stays in Houston on a new multi-year deal. The Astros give him the best chance to get to 300 wins while also being contenders every year.
Braves/Yankees/Dodgers/Angels/Padres/Mets/Giants could all be interested in short-term deals
User 3595123227
Always been a Verlander fan but I gotta say buyer beware in his case. He’s 40 or going to be soon whatever but health will be an issue for him now. Great track record but that’s history now. Father Time will catch up real soon.
johndietz
He would be perfect for the Halos since you won’t have to deal with failure in the World Series
drasco036
The pitcher I would back a dump truck full of money on is Justin Verlander, not Jacob deGrom.
zorocoaster
“into an age when pitchers usually find themselves fighting the passing of time and all of its sickening crimes”
MLB Trade Rumors getting poetic now.
1-LoneStar>2-*
JV should go to a young franchise and spread his vast knowledge of foreign substances to the next generation of illegitimate stars. Strom may need some help doing that in Arizona.
Yanks2
Proof?
1-LoneStar>2-*
Common. Sense.
Yanks2
Umpires check pitchers’ gloves at the end of each half inning though
1-LoneStar>2-*
MLB isn’t trying to catch anyone. Definitely not trying to catch anyone in the playoffs. Bad for business. MLB only responded to the 2017 situation because an outside media source figured it out. Valdez touched his wrist after every foul ball. Javier rubbed his thumb under his bill after every foul ball game 4. If it looks like cheating, from a team that has repeatedly cheated and defied logic the last 6 years, it’s because it is.
we_got_game
Detroit 3/95 million..
tiredolddude
Verlander has told insiders of his desire to walk on the wild side and join the Pirates next year. “Anyone can pitch for a front runner,” he explained. “But how many guys choose to pitch for one of the worst? And hey, Kate loves pierogies and fireworks.”
Macho King OG
The Phillies?
Yanks2
Anyone else think there’s something sketchy about how his stats get better as he gets older, and most of which began happening once signing with Houston? Not saying he’s cheating or not but it’s rare for a 40-year-old pitcher to win a CY Young and his numbers haven’t decline in years
YankeesBleacherCreature
He’s an anomaly. JV has been throwing his fastball less and relying more heavily on his slider and curve. He’s been able to walk less batters and serve up less homeruns.
Yanks2
Or maybe him and Cole benefit from foreign substances on the baseball
1-LoneStar>2-*
It would be an anomaly except that JV doing what he’s doing at 40, thier cluster of Latin unheard-ofs that are HOF canidate SPs, and their ability to rebuild Pressley, Montero, Stanek, Maton, and others… it’s not an anomaly, it’s an unrealistic patern. And they didn’t solve the 200 year old game of baseball.
kam3hameha
Or maybe these pitchers realize they have an outstanding defense behind them and an offense that can keep them in just about any game? Which helps them perform to the highest of their abilities and keeps their confidence high? Nah, let’s believe in conspiracy theories even though the spotlight has been focused right on the Astros. I’m sure you wrote up all these comments right after getting abducted by aliens, too. Also, you must not watch many MLB games because ALL pitchers do all kinds of weird things during games. Touching their hat, adjusting their jersey, etc. Batters do too. By your logic Bryce Harper must be cheating when he touches the ground during every at bat after getting drilled in the head. Baseball players, along with many true fans, are very superstitious as well. You, well you’re just a nut.
1-LoneStar>2-*
“They all just believe harder”… lol… Cheated once, cheated twice, still cheating. And Altuve’s not a HOF. Hahahahaha.
Yankeesforever
I dont know, historically he shouldn’t be doing what he is doing.
Either he is a once-in-a-lifetime freak of nature or very very very good at supplementing his abilities and not getting caught.
Yanks2
I’m not sure which one it is lol. Could very well be either
mrpappageorgio1 .
This is the one guy past the age of 35 that I’ve championed the Yankees signing and they refuse. Meanwhile… Josh Donaldson!?!? I bet the Yanks now throw a three year deal at him and he finally starts to regress
SportsFan0000
Astros have to be the favorite for Verlander.
I can see competitive bids from the Phillies (Dombrowski drafted JV),
Dodgers, Yankees etc…
And, never count the Padres out if it is a short term 1-2 year deal.
great one
Pay $40 for JV or $43 for Judge?