The Cardinals bid farewell to a pair of franchise icons at season’s end, as Albert Pujols and Yadier Molina officially closed the books on their playing career. For the first time in nearly two decades, St. Louis enters an offseason unsure of who’ll receive the bulk of the playing time behind the dish the following season. While the Cardinals have in-house options in Andrew Knizner and Ivan Herrera, president of baseball operations made clear in an appearance on MLB Network Radio on SiriusXM this week that he’s actively exploring the market for catching upgrades.
“Clearly, with Yadi retiring, we know we need to upgrade at catching — especially when you think about the day-to-day demands of that role,” said Mozeliak. “That’s something that we’re going to look at, whether it’s trade or free agency.”
Asked about interest in top catcher Willson Contreras, Mozeliak declined to publicly comment on the free agent’s potential market, calling that a “dangerous game” and instead simply doubled down on interest in catching help: “We are in the catching market.”
Contreras, a longtime division rival, is this year’s top free-agent catcher, with former Red Sox and Astros backstop Christian Vazquez the clear No. 2 option. They’re not the only names available, of course, but they’re the two clear-cut starting catchers coming off strong 2022 campaigns. Rebound candidates include Omar Narvaez, Mike Zunino and Tucker Barnhart, all of whom had down 2022 seasons but were quite recently considered quality starting options behind the dish.
As Mozeliak alluded to, the trade market should produce a handful of alternatives. Oakland’s Sean Murphy will be available, though the asking price for three years of his services will be understandably steep. The Blue Jays, meanwhile, have a trio of starting-caliber catchers on the roster in Danny Jansen, Alejandro Kirk and top prospect Gabriel Moreno. Jansen, with two years of remaining club control to Kirk’s five and Moreno’s six, is generally seen as the likeliest of the group to move.
Whatever path the Cards take, an addition at catcher feels like a foregone conclusion. Knizner, 27, has served as the primary backup to Molina in recent seasons and managed only a .204/.292/.288 slash through 536 big league plate appearances. Optimists might suggest that he’d improve with more consistent playing time than he received Molina and his iron-man approach to catching, but Knizner has also drawn sub-par defensive marks along the way. The 22-year-old Herrera went 2-for-18 in his MLB debut this year but turned in a solid .268/.374/.396 line in Triple-A. Still, a team hoping to vie for a return to the postseason could use more certainty behind the dish, perhaps easing the well-regarded Herrera into a larger opportunity — as opposed to simply throwing him into a trial-by-fire run at the starting job.
Catching help isn’t all that’s on the menu this winter for Mozeliak, GM Mike Girsch and the rest of the front office, though. Mozeliak didn’t specify a position but did voice hope of adding a left-handed bat to help balance out his lineup. Given that most of the available catching options are right-handed bats — Narvaez and the switch-hitting Barnhart being the exceptions — it’s likely the Cards will have to make an additional move to achieve that goal.
“When you look at our offense, trying to find something from the left side to try to help bolster our day-to-day lineup is something we think we could benefit from,” said Mozeliak. “…”When you think about our club from the left side, we could just use a little extra pop. Some of our better hitters are right-handed, and so we’re just looking for more balance in our lineup.
The Cards aren’t totally devoid of left-handed bats but do skew more toward the right side of the dish — particularly when it comes to the team’s power hitters. Lars Nootbaar showed some impressive power from the left side of the dish and likely secured himself a spot in the 2023 outfield, but he’s the main source of left-handed pop the Cardinals have at the moment. Rookie of the Year finalist Brendan Donovan had an outstanding all-around season but hit just five homers and posted a lowly .097 ISO (slugging minus batting average). Switch-hitters Tommy Edman and Dylan Carlson were both vastly better hitters from the right side of the plate than the left. Twenty-two-year-old Nolan Gorman certainly has power from the left side of the plate but struggled increasingly as his rookie season wore on.
Last offseason’s signing of Corey Dickerson seemed intended to provide some help in this space, and while Dickerson rebounded from an awful start to finish with a roughly league-average batting line, he’s again a free agent and the Cardinals are surely hoping for more than average output from whoever is acquired to fill this role. The free-agent market isn’t exactly teeming with productive left-handed hitters who could be plugged into the St. Louis lineup, though veterans like Michael Brantley, Michael Conforto and old friend Matt Carpenter are all available. The former two will both be returning from shoulder surgery, whereas the latter enjoyed an otherworldly rebound with the Yankees before suffering a fractured foot that derailed his comeback effort.
As is so often heard from baseball operations leaders, Mozeliak also touched on the adage that a team can never have too much pitching, noting that “you’re always just one injury away from being in a tough spot.” While he didn’t characterize the Cardinals’ search for rotation depth as quite the same level of priority as a catcher and left-handed bat, Mozeliak suggested that the Cardinals will “keep the pulse” of the starting pitching market as the offseason progresses.
With Adam Wainwright, Miles Mikolas, Jordan Montgomery, Steven Matz, Jack Flaherty and Dakota Hudson, the Cardinals have at least six rotation options — Mozeliak also listed Drew VerHagen as a potential depth option there — but bolstering that group with a swingman or some veterans on minor league deals could well be on the eventual to-do list.
Matt_Angel_Bronco_Laker
Max Stassi is a nice stopgap and no longer needed in Anaheim.
cookmeister 2
not sure he’s an upgrade over what they already have though
Buckner
They can have James McCan’t for free.
Win Cor
Yes he is.
i like al conin
He’s still needed. O’Hoppe is likely the back-up or at best a co-lead in 2023
Deadguy
Max Stassi? I’ve seen articles saying the Cardinals should trade Nootbaar up to Toronto for either Jansen or Kirk…. but he’s like our only left handed bat who hits for power? Dylan Carlson almost would be better just batting right handed till that wrist is 100%? Joc Pederson made alot of sense, but the giants offered him a deal he couldn’t refuse. Personally I hate (hate is a strong word) the idea of dealing Nootbaar? Cardinals have needed a left handed bat since 2019 when Matt Carpenter started refusing to hit the ball in the air? Obviously they need a catcher? I doubt contearas is the answer? He’s a bat first plantoon catcher at most that better profiles as a DH? For a while it seemed like Herrera was gonna be just that? Offense first catcher, but he struggled majorly in AAA last year and looked awful swinging the bat in his first taste of the majors in 2022 when Yadier Molina took an extended absence to rest his old sore knees?
fivepoundbass
I feel like Ron Burgundy’s teleprompter writer wrote this?
Ol’ Uncle Charlie
So many questions…he’s Ron Burgundy?
baseballpun
Ship Gorman to OAK as part of a Murphy package; sign Brantley.
You’re welcome.
Wagner>Cobb
Would be really happy with that if they also signed Rodon to front the staff.
Jerry Cantrell
Hey!!! No!!!
Send them Alec Burlison, Paul Dejong, and some cash!
baseballpun
If they would take DeJong in the package, with STL paying some/most salary of course, I’d be thrilled.
CCCTL
There’s no chance A’s take DeJong without his salary covered, and they’d rather get prospects than money … so, really, there’s no chance the A’s take DeJong.
TheStevilEmpire1
The asking price for Murphy will require a multiple player return. Would love to have Murphy but there’s definitely a point of saying no to what the A’s would ask for.
A'sfaninUK
The A’s won’t ask for much beyond Gorman, however, with all the players the A’s have, the Cardinals do match up well with them on a multi-player deal – some of Laureano, Blackburn, Kemp, Brown and Irvin could head to STL in a Murphy trade too.
Win Cor
Laureano makes sense
roninthebases
Didn’t Laureano have lots of injures and a suspension?
belkiolle
If all they asked was Gorman the Cardinals should do that in a heartbeat. It’s more like some combination of Gorman, Liberatore, Graceffo, and Burleson though.
rondon
It wouldn’t be a package with Dejong.
A'sfaninUK
A’s arent taking Dejong, they have too many MI prospects as is. Nick Allen is the everyday SS in 2023.
Lanidrac
Yeah, Jansen wouldn’t require as expensive of a package and also wouldn’t block Herrera for as long.
Win Cor
That would work
TradeAcuna
Darn, Acuna is righty~
positively_broad_st
Left out Alec Burleson as another in-house lefty bat option…
Jerry Cantrell
That was probably purposeful.
sliderwithcheeze
Add ‘terrible at free agency’ to the list of cardinal suckage
bhambrave
Manny Pina has a reputation as a quality defensive catcher, with offense slightly below the MLB average. He’s available cheap.
Cardsfanatik redux
this chat needs puke emojis
CujoMarlin
To use after you have a sliderwithcheeze?
Cardsfanatik redux
lol
Wagner>Cobb
I would be cool with them signing Contreras and Brantley to DH. Not interested in the SS market. Edman is really good and Winn might turn out to be a real stud.
My ideal offseason would be:
1. Trade Nolan Gorman and Dakota Hudson + for Sean Murphy
2. Sign Carlos Rodon and start Steven Matz in the bullpen until someone gets hurt
3. Sign Michael Brantley to DH
St. Louis solves two long-term needs in SP and C. After this season I think the only starter still under contract is Matz, so locking up a quality SP to front the rotation would be prudent.
Samuel
Wagner>Cobb;
For Murphy the A’s are looking to bring back prospects they like with at least 4-plus years of control …. preferably all 6.
Wagner>Cobb
@Samuel: Well Gorman and Hudson both have 3-5 years remaining. I’d even be willing to throw Liberatore and maybe someone else in there.
Samuel
Wagner>Cobb;
See if this helps……
From Cleveland the A’s asked for their top pitching prospect – who many regard as the best pitching prospect in MiLB; plus 2 other top 100 prospects. All of whom have 6 years of control.
Dakota Hudson will be a F/A in 2025, which means he has 2 years of control. I believe Gorman has 6 years of control.
The A’s rebuild revolves around guys they control for 5-6 years. They’re not concerned about competing in the next 2 years. And players they are attracted to may not be players other teams are attracted to. They have a pretty good in-house evaluation system.
Wagner>Cobb
I get that. That’s why I added “+” as well as later on saying “Libby +”. Gorman, Libby, Hudson, and another like Burleson perhaps has to be in the neighborhood.
fivepoundbass
Gorman just might be the next Scott Hatteburg
A'sfaninUK
That Murphy package is a nice start, but if the White Sox put Andrew Vaughn in their offer, or if the Rays say “take your pick of like 3-4 of our current top 10 prospects” then STL might have to add Jordan Walker, who is a great fit in Oakland at 3B too. The A’s dont have a longterm 3B prospect outside of Gelof.
baseballpun
There is no way in hell they would trade Jordan Walker for Sean Murphy, or probably anyone.
Cardsfanatik redux
You’re higher than a kite. St Louis wouldn’t trade Walker for Soto. you think you’ll get him for Murphy, Not a single chance in hell.
A'sfaninUK
prospect hoarders are the worst reply guys ever on this site – dont care about your view if you think #1 prospects dont ever get traded youre just wrong and dumb
A'sfaninUK
Imagine having Nolan Arenado and going “yeah lets keep this defensive wizard at 3B prospect while we lose in the playoffs because we didnt have Murphy” – Cards are lucky you have no influence on the team. You dont know how to win a title.
Lanidrac
That’s why Walker has learned to play the OF. Also, it’s his bat that makes him special, not his glove.
DefensiveIndifference
Walker is arguably the #1 prospect in baseball currently. He’s not getting traded. The guys that commented above are not wrong. Simply stating facts. Not willing to include Walker for a catcher isn’t prospect hoarding my guy.
baseballpun
They didn’t/won’t lose in the playoffs because they don’t have Murphy over, say, Vasquez. They’ll lose because of a combination of pitching, OF production, and/or Goldy and Arenado going ice cold again. Not worth giving up Walker when you get Vasquez for just money.
Cardsfanatik redux
I’m wrong and dumb? lol. You’d better do some value research. Maybe try watching a baseball game. Or anything that’ll teach you about baseball.
Wagner>Cobb
A’sfaninUK: Yeah, that would make it a problem. I would keep Walker and Winn off the table and try to get it done with others.
A'sfaninUK
Cardinals traded Arozarena and so many other “big hitting prospects”, they dont care about hitting prospects, they churn them out like butter (thanks for Capel btw)
Putmeincoach12
You obviously don’t really know much about Jordan Walker. No way Cards include him in any deal. Juan Soto wasn’t even a reason to trade Walker when it comes to Mozeliak. He values his top prospects way too much. Winn and Walker are surely off limits in any trade.
baseballpun
They need to trade or cut DeJong to free up the roster spot, but I agree that with Donovon’s breakout and the guys coming up I wouldn’t want to commit money to one of the big SS FAs.
I’d actually really like to see them get Swanson but think it would take a huge overpay. Rather they spend the money on pitching, like you said.
Wagner>Cobb
If they went for a SS, I’d only be interested in Swanson or Bogaerts.
Lanidrac
DeJong still has value as a defensive replacement and right-handed power bat off the bench. That’s enough to keep a roster spot when the Cardinals will be paying him almost all his contract no matter what.
baseballpun
He has no value as a bench bat.
Lanidrac
He can still pop an occasional extra base hit, especially against lefties. That’s good enough for a pinch-hitter who also plays excellent defense.
He just shouldn’t be starting any games outside of maybe once or twice a month unless his bat unexpectedly bounces back.
Win Cor
Too bad Contreras can’t field good enough to catch for the Cardinals; because he can certainly hit well enough
Lanidrac
2. They can’t afford both Rodon and another decent bat. They would also been unable to upgrade the bullpen. Meanwhile, there’s absolutely no reason to demote Matz to the bullpen, especially when already have a very good rotation fronted by Mikolas and Flaherty, as well as a good swingman in Woodford and other quality depth like Thompson and Liberatore.
Meanwhile, Hudson would also still be under team control after next season along with prospects like Thompson and Liberatore. They would then also have the money available to sign or resign an ace and more for the rotation at that point.
Wagner>Cobb
@ Lanldrac:
1. Agreed that they can’t get Rodon and a top bat. Doubt Brantley is so expensive that they couldn’t do both though. I may yet be proven wrong.
2. Matz was much better in the pen than the rotation. Also, I wouldn’t say no to Rodon just so I could keep Matz in the rotation.
3. Flaherty is a gigantic question mark and Mikolas isn’t legit ace. The team is far better with Mikolas as 2 and Flaherty as a 3. Waino and Montgomery bring up the rear.
4. Having quality depth isn’t a reason to not add an ace to a team that doesn’t have one.
5. They may very well hold off on adding an ace this year and decide that next year is a better time…but if they don’t have a legitimate ace this year, and Goldy and Arenado only have so many peak years left, why wait? Go get a stud now and see if you can win a Championship.
Lanidrac
Matz took a while to get going and then got hurt. Being in the bullpen had nothing to do with why he pitched so much better after coming back from the IL.
Wagner>Cobb
@Lanldrac
Had nothing to do with it? He got shelled in the rotation…only facing a handful of hitters as opposed to the same lineup 2-3 times is a non-factor? I think you’re mistaken.
Lanidrac
Mikolas is *absolutely* a legit ace! He’s had two All-Star years including this past year, one very good year, and two years ruined by injury since returning from overseas.
While Flaherty is indeed questionable, he could also very well rediscover his old form and become a second legit ace.
Montgomery is then a very good #2-3 starter himself, Wainwright still appears to have gas left in the tank, which then leaves Matz and Hudson as among the most overqualified 5th and 6th starters in MLB even once the offseason ends.
Even if the Cardinals didn’t have an ace, they still can’t afford Rodon and also significantly improve the offense.
Wagner>Cobb
Lanldrac:
We’ve debated this before. You’re the only person I’ve ever heard argue that Mikolas is an ace. I think your definition of an ace is too loose.
1. Making the ASG doesn’t make you an ace. See: Tyler Anderson, Paul Blackburn, Martin Perez, and Tony Gonsolin.
2. Mikolas was excellent in 18, very good in 22, and mediocre in 19 and 21. Obviously hurt in 20. I like him, but he’s not an ace.
3. How is Matz overqualified as a 5? Same with Hudson? Jury is out on Hudson due to injury recover, which is always a question mark. Matz, at this stage of his career peaks as a 4 on a good year. He’s a 5 or bullpen arm, as he showed this year.
4. Rodon, Mikolas, Flaherty, Montgomery, Waino looks a million times better than Mikolas, Flaherty, Montgomery, Waino, Matz/Hudson. I know Rodon is expensive, but that’s why you get the additional bat via trade (Murphy) or by signing a less expensive hitter (Brantley).
Lanidrac
Matz had a rough two months, but then he figured it out in his last start before getting hurt. Once he was healthy again, he could’ve put up similar numbers in the rotation had the Cardinals needed him there instead of the bullpen. If times through the order were an issue for him, it would’ve showed up earlier in his career.
Samuel
Lanidrac;
Might add that if Brantley is healthy and wants to play in 2023, his top choice would be to come back to the Astros, and the Astros top choice as a DH would be Brantley.
DefensiveIndifference
They absolutely CAN afford it. WILL they do it is another question entirely. Probably not. 3.3 mil through the gates and they act like they cant spend. Drives me insane.
Lanidrac
It drives me insane that some fans still think gate attendance provides the large majority of revenue. That amazing attendance they get is what allows them to even spend as high as the upper middle class despite playing in a below average media market.
iH8PaperStraws
They can spend with anyone in the league. Their owner is very wealthy, they have huge attendance, ball park village is a cash cow, plus from the new CBA they get get a ton of money from the MLB TV contract. Mozalak is just cheap. Yes I said Mozalak, not DeWitt. Mozalak thinks he’s the best scout in the business and can do it all through the draft and non exciting signings. Problem is the players he holds so highly never develop to anything special at the major league levels.
Lanidrac
No owner spends from his personal fortune on his/her sports team, and that MLB TV money went to every team.
The fact remains that the Cardinals DO NOT have the same revenue as the teams that spend more than they do on payroll.
belkiolle
No they can’t. They have the 19th highest revenue in baseball, even with the attendance. Their TV package is crap. They already spend a higher percentage of their revenue on salary than all but 4 other teams. There isn’t much more to be squeezed there.
iH8PaperStraws
They also don’t have quality depth in the rotation. We’ve heard that going into the last two years and where has it been? Nothing has changed this year, they have a bunch or number 3 starts on a good day. You can’t include Carlson, he has no intention of pitching in St. Louis. He will make a few starts and suddenly have another injury to sit the rest of the season out to hit free agency.
Lanidrac
They’ve had an incredible amount of starting pitching injuries these last 2 years. They also have even more quality depth that they did before with Hudson, Woodford, Thompson, Liberatore, Pallante (if necessary), etc.
Then It’s a good thing they don’t just have a bunch of #3 starters. Mikolas is a #1, Flaherty could be anywhere from a #1-#4, Montgomery is a #2-3, Wainwright is a #2-5, Matz is a #4, and the 6th starter Hudson is a #5 himself.
Carlson is an outfielder. If you mean Reyes, then agreed. He’s probably getting non-tendered, anyway.
belkiolle
They’re going to have to afford something.. Matz is the only starter they have signed past this year.
Lanidrac
They also have Hudson and their prospects like Thompson and Liberatore beyond next year.
Anyway, that’s what they’ll do next offseason when the others are actually free agents or retired.
robster
I love this site but none of this is new information. Are we just posting something for the sake of having something new (that’s not)?
geoffb1982
They’re going to get Sean Murphy, and based on the A’s recent trades, they’ll get him for very little
SportsFan0000
You are dreaming! There are many teams that want Murphy including the Guardians, Marlins, Astros and much more.
Murphy will not be landed with a “low ball” offer.
Tucker Barnhardt is one of the “value plays” if St Louis wants to go “cheap”.
Josh Bell is a switch hitting free agent with power who could be a fit in St. Louis
depending on the Cardinals 1B/DH situation.
Win Cor
Tucker Barnhardt is an easy get. So they will go after bigger fish first. But I would not be surprised if Tucker is the starting catcher come 2022
SportsFan0000
Barnhardt had an “off year”. He is a candidate for a big bounce back year.
belkiolle
Big bounceback year? His best year ever was 2017 when he was 10% below league average offensively. If they’re signing Barnhart it is as a backup.
Wagner>Cobb
Josh Bell as a DH would be really interesting. Not my favorite target, but interesting nonetheless.
Lanidrac
A guy who can only play 1B or DH like Bell is too defensively limited when the Cardinals already have Goldschmidt. (Yeah, that was true of Pujols last year, but that was a special case, plus he was only the short side of the DH platoon.) They need a bat who can play either OF or MI.
Samuel
geoffb;
LOL
No.
sss847
take grandal off the white sox hands please
Rsox
Narvaez could potentially check both boxes (Catcher, LH hitter). Brantley would be a solid signing to DH and would thrive in that lineup hitting between Arenado and Goldschmidt
TheStevilEmpire1
I believe the options are this:
Catcher
Plan A – Sign Christian Vasquez, it requires losing no prospects and he will be an affordable, defensive minded stalwart that fits the Cardinals philosophy. He’s not a flashy signing but a signing that fits very well.
Plan B – They look to Toronto, Yes, Sean Murphy would be an excellent fit however the asking price is going to be steep. Mozeliak won’t put himself in another position like he did with the Marcell Ozuna trade that lost them Alcantara and Gallen. Toronto has a surplus and the asking price should be fairly even.
Left handed bat:
Plan A – Mozeliak already has someone in his sights. This is typical posturing by Mo when he already has someone in mind.He harped on upgrading at 3rd base for 2 years before get Arenado (without saying the name Arenado).I wouldn’t be shocked to see Mo bring in Cody Bellinger if he gets non tendered by the Dodgers as a reclamation project.
Plan B – Trade. This market isn’t blooming with left handed bats that could offer passable defense. The question is where do they feel Gorman will be by spring? Gorman could be that guy but do they have the patience to wait for his development.
Win Cor
All this is totally plausible. Very good post. Cody Bellinger would quiet the peanut gallery waiting to see if it pans out.
Cardsfanatik redux
Vasquez is well below average in all away parks compared to his home splits in hitter friendly parks. The numbers are all there if you look. I believe Vasquez is their fallback
TheStevilEmpire1
But as Cardinal fans we also know that their organizational philosophy is defense first. He has a good reputation as a game caller, frames pitches well, and is considered above average defensively. As long as his offense don’t complete go Paul DeJong, he has value.
Win Cor
Vasquez can field and frame. That is valuable to the Cardinals
TheStevilEmpire1
My point exactly
Dustyslambchops23
Which jays catcher and what y’all giving up
TheStevilEmpire1
My assumption is that Gabriel Moreno isn’t on the table. He has the most service time and potentially the highest upside.
Danny Jansen would demand a smaller return than Kirk, however, Jansen serves Toronto’s need for a mentor to Moreno more. I believe Jansen is more value to the Jays.
With Kirk, St. Louis might have a good package that benefits both sides. Tyler O’Neill might b a starting point to replace Teoscar.
eatonculo
Nolan Gorman needs to be the new left fielder.
A'sfaninUK
A package led by Nolan Gorman wins the race for Sean Murphy. And the package might only be like, one or two other prospects or young MLB players. Will depend on whether or not the White Sox want to put Andrew Vaughn on the table, or if the Rays open the gates for the A’s…
Sean Murphy is basically a younger JT Realmuto and is trending upwards everywhere across the board, he’s a massive upgrade for like 25 teams.
TheStevilEmpire1
I love Murphy’s game, but like I said in the last part, I believe a lot depends on where they stand on Gorman. If they can find a way to get a catcher without giving him up, they would probably entertain those deals first.
Gorman has a tremendous potential upside. With Herrera waiting in the wings, Its hard to gauge exactly what the “need” is. It could be a permanent option like Murphy or a stop gap guy until Herrera is ready.
Bryzzo2016
Murphy is the best all round catcher available. Yes, the price will be “steep”, but for good reason.
A'sfaninUK
Murphy, Laureano, Puk, Kemp and Irvin for Gorman, Walker, Burleson, Hudson and Baez is pretty fair for both sides.
Cardsfanatik redux
yep. You’re high.
A'sfaninUK
Cool hit the mute button then if you are a prospect hoarder, your opinion here doesnt matter because you value things differently than MLB GMs do.
TheStevilEmpire1
The Cardinals won’t offer Jordan Walker in a package. Mo said that on a broadcast a long time ago.
cookmeister 2
are you an mlb gm?
Win Cor
Ridiculous
Jerry Cantrell
Walker isn’t going anywhere.
tstats
Why would the Cards want Tony kemp when they have Edman and Donovan?
belkiolle
That’s not even close. Walker is likely to be the Cardinals starting RF this year. He’s not going anywhere. Walker by himself is more valuable than Murphy at the moment.
Something like Gorman, Burleson, Walsh (or pick a flier SP candidate) is straight up value wise for Murphy.
A'sfaninUK
“Walker by himself is more valuable than Murphy at the moment.” insanely stupid take, You dont know ball. Prospects aint worth as much as you want them to be.
Cardsfanatik redux
I’m not sure you’re doing yourself any favors calling everyone stupid, when in fact, you don’t seem to know anything about baseball, other than being a homer of a fan.
TheStevilEmpire1
Agreed. But there’s also several options available that doesn’t exactly require them paying a steep cost.
Win Cor
Not enough pitching. Same crap as the last 2 years. Quintana at least is needed… and a guy like Cinder and another lefty pitcher that can pitch 2 days in row when necessary. Or a top of the line Starter. Anything less than this is a failure to address the needs of the team and is flagrant.
For 2 years nothing has been done to address the glaring whole in the middle of the order. Ozuna was a failure and since then some luckiness has happened from time to time but nothing serious has been done.
Catcher has been ignored for 3-4 years knowing after the trade of Carlson Kelly there was no heir apparent.
After trading away the possible World Series pitchers Alcantare and Gallen; it is unbelievable there is not more pressure being put upon the Front Office.
What good fortune last year provided with Pujols, Molina and Wainwright. What a smoke screen to the reality….and those winning streaks afte the All Star breaks that masked the problems.
Being $100 Million behind playoff contenders in budget is not going to help. Because the Tampa Bay Rays this team is not.
Four4fore
The shift is gone so Gorman will be exposed if they use him at 2b. In STL he’s a DH somewhere else he’s 3b and DH so he’s more valuable to as chip than player in STL. That said do you think they would trade a young player with 30+ HR potential for Catcher?
baseballpun
I would trade Gorman for Murphy in a second.
Four4fore
I’d try to pry Daulton Varsho from Arizona, but I don’t know what that package would look like. Maybe Gorman fits there.
DefensiveIndifference
The Jay’s just traded Hernandez, which means they need OF help. Cards have like 3,000 outfielders, take your pick. Need a catcher real bad. This is so obvious Mo is passing the Jay’s GM a note in class, check Yes or No. Ole Billy is going to want way too much for Murphy. Not giving up Walker, Winn, or Gorman + other stuff for him. Hard pass.
Then sign Josh Bell to be the Protection lefty batting 5 in the order.
I would really love something to slot in at the top of the rotation as well. Not sure where Gorman fits on this team? Shift is gone, he’s bad at 2nd base, and blocked at 3rd. Maybe package Gorman and Liberatore for a front of the rotation SP?
Or just spend some damn money and sign Rodon.
YourDreamGM
Jays are looking for a sure thing mlb 800 ops guy. Who are the cards trading them? I dunno who Josh Bell is protecting but it sure isn’t Goldy or Nolan.
Win Cor
They are looking for a controllable OF that hits lefty and can patrol in CF with a decent OBP. That’s all…The Cardinals have 3….Just like Toronto has 3 catchers.
DefensiveIndifference
Take Carlson then. Done and done. Noot and O’Neill can share CF. Burleson and Walker are ready to roll at the corners. Plus Donovan and Yepez can play OF, not as well mind you, but still… Plenty of options.
belkiolle
Burleson is an awful defensive outfielder. He makes Jose Martinez look good out there.
Send them Nootbaar and a couple pieces.
TheStevilEmpire1
Tyler O’Neill is a vicious power hitting, multiple gold glove toting trade chip. And he’s Canadian to boot.
DefensiveIndifference
Or O’Neill and we keep Carlson. It legit does not matter to me either way. Walker and Burleson both have power, so I’m not worried. Whichever gets us Kirk. Go nuts.
Lanidrac
Gorman could still be the primary DH if needed. Although, you’re right that he’s also currently one of their best trade chips.
Meanwhile, the Cardinals can’t afford Rodon and need bullpen help more than they need another starter in the first place.
As for Bell, a guy who can only play 1B and DH is too defensively limited for a team that employs Goldschmidt.
DefensiveIndifference
I like Gorman. My outlined plan above is simply a way to get all the stuff we need without signing Rodon. Cuz the Cards are cheap and won’t pony up the for him even though we just put 3.3 mil asses in the seats, Waino deferred 10 mil in salary, and the Rox are giving us 16 mil this yr. Ugh….
iH8PaperStraws
Make sure to trade Carlson! His STL experience needs to be over.
Win Cor
Oh brother….
iH8PaperStraws
Seriously. He has proven to be nothing more than Colby Rasmus or Randal Grichuk. Who coincidentally were both traded to TOR. We need a Cather, they need a CF. Seems like those stars should be aligning.
TheStevilEmpire1
I believe Carlson deserves another year. I think his ability to play all outfield positions effectively and his ability to switch hit checks off a couple boxes they otherwise wouldn’t have to. At worse he develops into a serviceable 4th outfielder. At best he’ll bounce back and develop into a good everyday player.
sliderwithcheeze
Murphy isn’t going to do anything to help. They need better pitching and a middle of the order bat. He’s neither
Wagner>Cobb
C is easily their biggest hole. It has been the last two years. Even when Molina was healthy he underperformed. Getting a great offensive and defensive catcher like Murphy would be a huge boost.
Samuel
Have followed MLB for over half a century. All teams have a core of fans that follow their team and the sport that are knowledgeable about both. However, have always felt that St. Louis baseball fans were at the top of the list.
Will never forget the story about the time the Cardinals traded for Jim Edmonds. Mark McGuire was with the team at the time. He and Edmonds had grown up together in Orange Country, Calif. and remained friends. McGuire called him and told him he wouldn’t believe the fans in St. Louis and was going to love it there. I believe the Edwards’ family made the St. Louis area their home now.
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All that said – I think that the Cardinals are a buck short as a WS contender, and their fans that post on here seem to know it. Baseball is more than stats. Albert was wonderful to have back for his final year, but his loss won’t be that big a thing. Yadi’s will. His being called a “Coach on the Field” is an understatement. Obviously he won’t be replaced behind the plate – I don’t think there’s a catcher in MLB that can replace him. Vasquez appears to be the best option.
But other areas are boing to have to be upgraded. Goldschmidt and Arenado had monstrous years, and it might be too much to expect the same in 2023 – although they can probably get close. So some of the other players are going to have to step up…especially in the pitching area.
Wagner>Cobb
They seem to have such a strong clubhouse with so many level-headed and professional players; Goldy, Arenado, Waino, and Mikolas among others. The top-end talent is deficient though. Big contributors like Rodon, Murphy, Brantley, Contreras, Pablo Lopez, Bell, etc, would all help tremendously and are all attainable to varying degrees. They also have some really excellent prospects on the way who won’t have to show up and carry the team. There’s a lot to like here, but as you said, not quite WS team yet.
Bluejay4life
Danny Jansen on the Bluejays might be a good fit for St Louis. Danny’s got a few years in experience he’s a pretty good defender a fast runner for a catcher and Bluejays pitchers love to pitch to him. He known to call a good game. He’s no Molina but really who is?
Cardsfanatik redux
He’s actually my preferred catching target. 2 years of control, Herrera waiting on the minors. if Herrera tanks, resign him. And he’ll be the cheapest of the 3 catchers to aquire prospect wise. I like Murphy, but don’t think Mo will meet the ask. And probably shouldn’t. Jansen will probably be “close” to the same level of production with better power.
notnamed
lefty hitter shouldn’t be only singled out as, on the look out for. just get a hitter, period.
notnamed
leave knizner as catcher
TheStevilEmpire1
Andrew Knizner, is that you?
notnamed
trade mikolas, oneill, flaherty, marmol, nootbaar. should have kept bader and sent oneill to new york.
Devlsh
I’ve suggested it before: I’d offer Gorman, Liberatore and DeJong along with the $ to cover the latter’s contract for Murphy. That’s two top prospects and a dead cat bounce lottery ticket that can be flipped if he pans out. I have a hard time believing Murphy will draw more than that from another team, but if the A’s say no, I’d pivot to Vasquez or even Narvaez.
DefensiveIndifference
Thank you guest678. DeWitt just hoards his profits. I didn’t even mention the tv deal. 220-240 is where the Cards should live payroll wise. They just pretend there is a glass ceiling. Hit 200 mil and the organization dies!! Or something equally as dumb…
belkiolle
And they pay the other costs of running a major league ballclub how? 220-240 million would be spending 68-75% of their yearly revenue on salary. That’s not even close to sustainable.
Even teams like the Dodgers (2021 – $223M salary on $482M revenue = 46%) and Yankees (2021 – $288M salary on $565M revenue = 51%) odon’t spend anywhere close to that percentage on salary.
The Cardinals spent $191M in 2021 on $287M in revenue (66.5%). They already spend a crazy amount of their revenue on salary.
DefensiveIndifference
Ok 240 was maybe too high. All I’m saying the club can afford to spend. Revenue was above 350 mil for the 2 seasons prior to the pandemic. I would venture to guess that 2022 will be at least 350. The team needs a #1 starter and a middle of the order bat. Revenue shouldn’t impede the team from getting those things if they want to be serious WS contenders. That’s my point.
cardfanhemi9
Matt Adams would be a great candidate for left hand batter. The Cardinal fans loved him as a player and would give him standing ovations. Matt is playing with the Kansas City Monarchs and getting selected as an all-star player. Matt and all his fans and other MLB players would love to see him back in the big leagues which he definitely deserves.
redbirds22
Yepez, Gordon Graceffo and Moises Gomez for Murphy. Giving up a mlb player w control, top pitching prospect and player that just hit 39 dingers in AA/AAA.
belkiolle
and David Forst hangs up the phone laughing. Gorman or Winn is the starting point for a Murphy package.
DonOsbourne
Generally I always expect the Cardinals to take a wait and see approach to the offseason. The truth is they could add no one this winter, begin the season with what they have, and look to add when obvious needs arise. However…….
Trading for Murphy actually seems right in Mo’s wheel house. They actually have more prospects nearing the big leagues than they have room on the roster for. Trading 3-4 of them would actually make things easier. I think Gomez is a prime sell high candidate. I think prospect evaluators think more highly of Liberatore than the Cardinals do. Plus they would like to get something for him before the Arozarena deal becomes another one sided loss for Mo. Gorman doesn’t really fit anywhere for the Cards and his talents are somewhat redundant because Walker offers a similar profile with more upside. Even Burleson is probably expendable because he doesn’t have a home defensively.
As for pitching, Rodon isn’t happening. But the Cards should keep an eye on Sean Manaea. If the market doesn’t drive his price way up, a long term deal for him makes sense. He isn’t an ace, but he will eat innings and he may look a lot better with the Cards defense behind him. It’s happened to other lefties recently.
There are plenty of options for a LH stick. They can wait until closer to spring training to see what’s available.