4:50pm: The Phillies announced the surgery and provided this update about his timeline: “The prognosis is for Bryce to be returning as the designated hitter by the All-Star break of 2023 with a possible return to play right field towards the end of the regular season.”
4:10pm: Phillies outfielder/designated hitter Bryce Harper underwent Tommy John surgery today, according to Jim Salisbury of NBC Sports Philadelphia. Salisbury adds that it went “very well” and that Harper could be back into a competitive setting by mid-May.
Harper was diagnosed with a torn ulnar collateral ligament back in May, which prevented him from throwing. However, he was still able to hit and served as the Phillies’ designated hitter for the rest of the season, delaying treatment until the offseason. The UCL injury didn’t slow him down at all, as he finished the year with a batting line of .286/.364/.514 for a wRC+ of 138. He then went bonkers in the playoffs, hitting .349/.414/.746 for a wRC+ of 217 and helping the Phillies get to the World Series.
It was reported last week that Harper would undergo a surgery of some kind, though the extent of it wouldn’t be known until he was actually under the knife. One option would have been an internal brace procedure, which generally requires less recovery time than a full Tommy John procedure. However, the ligament damage was apparently significant enough that a full TJS was eventually required.
Of the two possible outcomes, this is certainly bad news for the Phillies. However, it’s not as dire as it would be for a pitcher. TJS usually requires a pitcher to miss about 12-18 months while recovering and regaining strength, but position players can return much quicker. For example, Shohei Ohtani underwent TJS in October of 2018 but was serving as the Angels’ designated hitter by early May of 2019.
Each player and each injury are unique, so it can’t just be assumed Harper will follow the same timeline. But it does illustrate that Harper’s 2023 isn’t doomed. As Salisbury mentions, it’s possible that Harper is playing in competitive games by mid-May, presumably on some sort of rehab assignment that will see him rejoin the team after that. The next question will be when Harper will be able to retake the field, which is also something that could happen in 2023. Didi Gregorius underwent TJS in October of 2018 and was playing shortstop by June of 2019, some eight months later.
The ongoing fallout from Harper’s injury has been and will continue to be mitigated by the designated hitter. The National League didn’t adopt the DH on a permanent basis until the 2022 season, which was good timing for the Phils since it allowed Harper to stay in the lineup for most of 2022 and will allow him to return quicker next year.
While Harper is out of action at the beginning of the season, that will open up the DH spot for some of the club’s lesser defenders, such as Kyle Schwarber and Nick Castellanos. Though the DH allowed the club to hang onto Harper’s bat, it also meant that Scharber and Castellanos had to play the field much more than they originally envisioned. For at least part of 2023, they will have more ability to use the DH slot for those guys. The club’s regular outfield mix is slated to consist of those two along with Brandon Marsh in center. If one of the corner outfielders is in the DH slot, it opens playing time for guys like Matt Vierling or Dalton Guthrie. Then again, the club could also use the DH slot to get Darick Hall into the lineup more, as the first baseman is currently block by Rhys Hoskins there.
Mid-May return isn’t so bad. hope it all goes well
Mid May is the hope of being in a competitive setting, thus meaning he will have 2-3 weeks of rehab games at that time, and that’s if everything works out perfect, which it rarely does. Probably looking closer to July 1. This is awful news for Philly fans.
Looking forward to seeing Bryce back on the field early June getting ready to lead the Phillies in defense of their Nl championship along with their upgraded championship roster.
For a long time, TBH, I didn’t like Harper’s style, personality,
mojo. But after watching him a bunch in this year’s playoffs, listening to his interviews, watching him with his young children….and his censers leadership style, I became a fan. Get well quickly Bryce! Come back stronger than before!!!
**sorry…don’t know what autocorrect means by the word -censers- my apologies **
He has grown up.
A censer is what you burn incense in. It’s an example of the potpourri of problems auto-correct can cause. Don’t get incensed over it.
@Captain….I’m mildly incensed that the OP didn’t have a guess as to the word they typed that got auto-corrected.
That may haunt for a few minutes.
He’ll never pitch again…
Just don’t rush him back too early, please….let the rehab takes its course until he is ready. But also don’t tell me Hall/Guthrie will be the ones soaking up those pa’s….
Phils at least need to add a veteran type bat…Kind of like Bamboo Brad from the right side..
Well it isn’t as awful because it was fully expected, but yes it still stinks. This is for the best though. He’ll be fine for the late-season stretch. In the meantime, Hoskins can do the bulk of the DH work.
If Hoskins takes the bulk of the dh at bats, you will play first base? Hall is a very poor fielder also, and can’t hit lefties. I know teams don’t like doing it, but I think adding a slick fielding first baseman ( low salary), and carrying one less borderline reliever, would be in the Phillies best interest.
As the other poster noted, they’ll need Hoskins at 1B. They’ll probably carry Darick Hall again as their DH.
Hall can DH as well, yes. But also Bohm at 1st with Sosa at 3rd is a possibility.
Just consider it a major trade for the second half of the season. Like you said the Phillies were a lot better second half of the season team. It’s a lot better then him missing the 2nd half of the season.
Not AWFUL- as long as they stay afloat until then (which they will because they did this past season) they’ll be fine
Maybe he’ll be back early, but I’d figure on July, post the All-Star break.
Sucks they said mid may and twenty minutes later said the All star break.
They said Mid-May meaning baseball activity, rehab…etc. All Star Break for major league play.
Long term solution. Unfortunate, but good to get this matter resolved now. Hope Harper is back as soon as possible.
my sanity is in the hands of those doctors
Great news, looks like a return before the All Star break….Hope the rehab is free of “setbacks”
How is that great news? It is the worst possible outcome.
In the sense that we knew he would have surgery and could potentially miss even more time.
@bbh…..Huh? Is your sundowning taking effect early today?
The damage to his arm was well known. Surgery over, no complications and a return by the All Star break was expected….Harper enters back into the DH role and should be on track for the OF by end of Summer…..
But hey thanks for the platitude. At least some make bad takes funny….yours offered nothing…But hey…
Far from the worst possible outcome.
From what I read, TJS was the worst possible outcome. Granted, I don’t commit these things to my ROM, but what the worst possible outcome?
The worst possible outcome was he could’ve been the 1 person in 100,000 who dies from being put under general anesthesia.
Well.. actually maybe the worst possible outcome was the scalpel could’ve slipped such that it simultaneously slit the throats of everybody in the operating theater.
“COULD BE BACK BY MID-MAY” that sounds like a stretch. I hope so,but you never know. that’s why it’s majorly important to sign one of the big 3 SS. I don’t think Swanson is is the same level as the other three
“competitive setting” I think means a rehab assignment.
Yes
bumpy93;
I love this mentality!
LOL
Because one of the teams top players will be out till May or June next year, the franchise NEEDS to commit to well over $200m to a free agent over a period of at least 7 years.
Do you remember the Phillies roster in 2015?
don’t care about 2015. all the talk around us is we’re getting one of the prize SS and that’s even before the Harper surgery news. Now that he’s gonna miss 30-45gms it seems like the pressure to get one of those guys becomes just a little more important then it was 2wks ago
Yeah, what the heck does 2015 have to do with anything?
ty darkside, thought the same thing…..but I’ll take the bait.
Am sure it was an infield of declined Howard, Hernandez, Galvis and Franco.
Maybe Cody Smashe and Odubal in the OF? Dom Brown or Alterr?
Hamels and Nola starting….
What is your point, the team make-up was based on young guys with “potential” and weak veteran fill ins?
The current squad has pretty much nothing in common, unless you want to correlate Bohm/Stott? But hey….
Swanson will be ~$100M cheaper than the other 3, if years are similar. But Swanson is VERY inconsistent with the bat with a lot of K’s and few walks. You ok paying $140M+ for that red flag bc his defense has shined brighter than ever, despite going into his 30’s? Me neither.
He’s been consistent the past two years though. And he graded out as the best defender at the position last year. I don’t think there will be 100MM difference between the 4. For ex, sure, X is a better hitter but with less power and not as good defense.
There is nothing consistent about Swanson. NEVER buy the career year and at with him going into his age 29 season in 2023 that is exactly what any team that signs him will be doing.
In his 5 full seasons (2020 was a 60 game season) he has averaged 2.16 bWAR. His only full season above MLB average bWAR was 2022.
A 99 OPS+ in 2021 and 115 OPS+ in 2022 = inconsistent offense.
Even his defense is inconsistent. 9 DRS in 2022, -7 in 2021, 9 in 2020, -2 in 2019. .
Correa and Turner are both asking for Seager money and the odds are they will both get it. I don’t think either Bogaerts or Swanson will top $180 million and Bogaerts will make $40 million more than Swanson.
Turner seems like the best fit to me. Although Correa is younger and carries no draft compensation.
Im a Yankee fan yet I love Bogaerts as a player. I think there are flaws in defensive metrics in general that decreases his value but he seems to make the routine plays which is underrated by metrics (like Jeter). Maybe Sox fans that watch him on an everyday basis would disagree
The guy can really hit, even in pressure situations and environments.
Bogart has no range, and it will be more apparent without the shift.
I’ll be honest, I’ve never understood why Bogaerts isn’t considered an ok defender. He’s not amazing to me. But he certainly seems fine.
I agree. But part of that calculus is figuring out how long before Mayer is ready. Let’s say 6 years @ $28M, with two at SS and 4 at 3rd, mitigates the lack of range.
And Dragbunt is correct; he makes all the routine plays.
so Harper missing 2 months of one season means the Phillies should throw out 35+mil for 6+years?
that’s like justifying a brand new car because your current one needs a new battery
@atlbraves2010 – I guess you don’t own a Tesla.
I don’t normally subscribe to that theory, but Harper was a MVP as recent as last year and has proven he can carry a team, even as a DH. 2 months is one-third of the season, which really can make or break a team’s season regardless of the expanded playoffs.
The Phillies were already talking about adding a shortstop. It has nothing to do with Harper’s injury. It has to do with replacing Segura and the shortstops on the market are >>> than the 2B. Stott can move to 2B.
There are really only 4 shortstops worth adding to their roster. The only question is which one will the large market and budget Phillies sign?
So will it be Correa or Turner for Seager length and money?
Or will it be Bogaerts or Swanson for 6-7 years and $100 million less total?
You are the GM. Which do you choose?
Wow that’s a lot better of a prognosis than I had expected.
I’d be shocked if he’s back before July.
He was playing hurt for some time during the season and that playoff run. Now’s the time to deal with it and come back at some point next season.
The partially torn ucl, didn’t affect his hitting one iota!! His power was still there. The thumb fracture took time to heal completely.
I still can’t believe I have to admit this, but he is one tough dude. That was a gutsy playoff performance.
If I were him I’d have gotten this done the day the WS was over. Wonder why he waited?
Probably because of the surgeon’s schedule. I’m sure he got the best surgeon money could buy.
That makes him evil. All medical procedures should be free, equally distributed, and subsidized by the government.
So we should make the same money as the guys playing the game. Everyone gets a trophy.
All medical procedures should be free
===============================
I agree. I am still waiting for the government to give me a 1995 Porsche 928.
Von, where are you? It’s ok to come out now, the surgery is over.
Haha. All is well. This was expected. Phils will be fine.
Dont players usually miss one whole season with TJ or is that just pitchers?
That is just for pitchers. Read the article.
Sorry but the article wasn’t there when wrote this. I guess I should wait next time. Thanks
It generally takes a bit less time for position players to come back from, especially if they are DH-ing upon their return, which Harper certainly will at least in the beginning.
Mostly pitchers. This is similar to Ohtani a few years ago, but since the Phillies made it to the World Series, the surgery was delayed. He’ll be fine around late June or July.
“the Phillies made it to the World Series”…
That sounded so good Von…I couldn’t help repeating it….
“the Phillies made it to the World Series”
There, I said it again…made my day!!!
I agree that this makes it all the more likely that Philly signs one of the big 3 shortstops this off-season. All signs seem to be pointing to Bogaerts, as Dombrowski has already expressed interest in him and knows him well from his time in Boston. He’s also likelier to command a bit less money than the other two, which could allow them to put more money into upgrading the pitching staff. Adding Bogaerts (or Turner or Correa) would go a long way to softening the blow of losing Harper for part of the season.
I’m afraid of Bogaerts because outside of last season, he hasn’t been great defensively, and quite frankly with the shift going away, defense up the middle is essential. Turner hasn’t been perfect defensively either, but I think his speed and ability to hit leadoff adds something the Phillies are lacking. I’d obviously be happy with any of the big SS options, but Turner is my preference, even at the higher cost.
@Von – As someone who watches nearly every Red Sox game, Xander’s defense is much better than he’s given credit for. The one knock on him might be that he doesn’t have the range of the elite shortstops but he is rock solid with the glove and his arm is plenty strong enough to make all the plays at short. If the Phillies end up with Xander, you should be thrilled about it. He had some lingering shoulder issues this year that limited his power but he’ll hit 25+ HRs next season if he ends up in Philly too. It also doesn’t hurt that he’s one of the best guys in all of baseball. We’ll miss him dearly in Boston if he doesn’t re-sign here.
Thanks for that perspective, and I do absolutely love Xander as he carried my fantasy teams a few times. I’d definitely be thrilled with Xander. I just think Turner’s skillset would really change this lineup. But like you say, Xander’s a stud too.
I don’t think anyone has a clear defense ability read by stats only because of the shift. Players were lined up to have little range. SS were often second basemen. I think the eye test will be more important for a year or two until true ranges are calculated for the none shift.
I agree with Dorothy that Bogaerts is a better defender than he gets credit for. He makes all of the routine plays and has a strong arm. I don’t see him being a liability defensively at SS, at least for the next several seasons.
People, He wont be back before the All Star game-
Please dont think he will be back in May, wont happen!
By May, they mean some sort of rehab assignment, not the majors. This seems possible, but to your point, the Phils won’t be rushing him back.
@Junior25 – There’s no reason to think he won’t be back in the majors as a hitter by June 15th at the latest; probably closer to June 1st. As you saw from last season, hitting puts very little stress on the UCL. This is why Shohei was back at DH a little more than 6 months after his surgery; he just didn’t pitch. The same outlook applies to Bryce. He’ll be ready for a rehab assignment in May and back as DH in early June
It still amazes me that he was able to sustain that violent swing with this injury. The man’s a competitor.
He is. I never realized how much until he came to Philly. Which is why I won’t be surprised if he’s back earlier than expected.
DH ing May possible……..RF more like end of July
I could see him playing DH for the whole season again, just to play it safe.
I doubt he plays the OF at all next year.
Does it matter. DH or outfield ,I want his bat in the lineup. The defending national league champions have many outfield and dh options. Let’s add that shortstop and arm to the rotation and see you in October.
Probably later than that. Aaron Hicks was playing outfield in late July the season after his TJ but he had it about a month earlier. But Harper is also not your normal ball player.
He sure waited a long time after the World Series was over.
The article says “TJS usually requires a pitcher to miss about 12-18 months” but actually it’s frequently closer to two full years (two full seasons). Shohei Ohtani: two full seasons. Justin Verlander: two full seasons. Dustin May: almost two full seasons. And there are countless more examples.
Pitchers who’ve come back after only about one full year (one full season) include Jacob deGrom and Steven Strasburg, and both of them continue having tons of injury problems.
Yes, Bryce Harper isn’t a pitcher and might be throwing reasonably well sooner than a pitcher has to be able to throw (and yes, he can DH in the interim), but a torn UCL is one of the most serious throwing arm injuries (along with a torn rotator cuff).
And the first one doesn’t always work. It’s not something you want done. Amazing that parents of high school kids think it’s a good idea to get “out of the way.” Mind numbing stupidity.
@whyhayzee: Yes, and even MLB teams often have their players undergo TJS where it’s not always necessary. Many UCL tears are less severe and can heal on their own without surgery.
Verlander had his TJ in August 2020. He returned opening day 2022. That is not 2 years.
Ohtani had TJ in October 2018 and returned to DH in early May 2019. He returned to pitching at the start of the 2020 season, which was July. He would have been ready had the season started in April. COVID messed that all up.
Dustin May had TJ in May 2021 and returned in August 2022.
All your examples are incorrect. While I am sure there are pitchers that did take 2 years to recover, none of those did.
@Pads Fans:
(1) Verlander pitched just six innings in 2020, tore his UCL, and didn’t pitch again until 2022, missing all but those 6 innings in 2020 and all of 2021. For all intents and purposes, that’s two full years (two full seasons).
(2) As a pitcher, Ohtani missed the entire 2019 season and pitched less than two innings in 2020. That’s another example of missing two full years (two full seasons).
(3) As you acknowledge, May missed almost the entire 2021 and 2022 seasons.
COVID has nothing to do with any of this or with pitchers requiring two years to come back from TJS. Each pitcher’s physiology is unique, and their UCL tears can vary from mild to extreme, and from partial to full. The surgeon’s skill also plays an important role in both the recovery process and the success of the surgery.
Instead of criticizing others’ comments, perhaps you can try providing some useful information of your own.
You have this bad habit of doubling down on dumb Brad.
The 2020 season started in July. COVID was the reason. Were you in a coma that whole year? There was only a few games to pitch in.
May was back in action in very next season. 15 months after his surgery.
@BaseballisLife: No, but apparently you have a habit of insulting people if you don’t agree with them and don’t know what you’re talking about. And you obviously don’t know much about pitching, arm injuries, a torn UCL, TJS, or even baseball & COVID. Please don’t bother replying b/c your rudeness is just plain toxic.
Take your time, bud. Not like this could’ve been done once the World Series ended.
it sucks we live in a baseball world where Bryce is considered elite. 15 years ago he would have been an average power hitter. Baseball has been going downhill very rapidly.
Even in that era where pitchers weren’t throwing 100mph pitches and many players were taking PEDs, Harper would still be considered way above average. I have no clue what you’re talking about, but feel free to elaborate.
Nah vph, don’t encourage him, one lazy take is enough….
@VonPurpleHayes: You’re right about Harper, but pitchers have pretty much always thrown 100+ mph. It’s just that now everyone makes a big deal about velocity, and the velo of every pitch is displayed for all to see.
“Average power hitter” Harper ranks 59th all-time in OPS.
Some HOF players who rank below him:
Mike Schmidt
Ken Griffey, Jr.
Bill Terry
Mickey Cochrane
Willie McCovey
Willie Stargell
Jackie Robinson
Eddie Mathews
Harmon Killebrew
and one shoo-in Hall of Famer who’s not eligible yet, Miguel Cabrera
Feel better now about the baseball world you live in?
@Fink Ployed: Yes, Harper’s an exceptional player, but I doubt there’s any team in MLB that would take him over Schmidt, Griffey, or McCovey, to name just a few on your list.
OPS isn’t everything.
Knowledge of baseball is obviously not everything to you.
You said Harper was an “average power hitter” and he showed you how stupid that statement that was.
Just take your lumps and back out of the conversation instead of doubling down on dumb.
Harper is top 50 in both SLG and ISO all time. That, my baseball illiterate fellow commenter, is elite power.
I would take him over Willie and maybe 2 others on the list.
Salisbury adds that it went “very well” and that Harper could be back into a competitive setting by mid-May.
But did they consult Dr. Boonedoggle?
heal up quick harp, bb and the phil’s need ya so you can help knock out my birds next postseason.
Hope he heals well and is back to crushing balls soon. Players like Harper make this game more fun to watch.
If the Phillies get off to a bad start in 2023 are Philly fans going to shout back “WE got off to a bad start and went to the WS last year”? If they do have a bad season is the manager going to get the axe?
Didn’t even realize he needed surgery.
Interesting fact for 2022 was that Phillies players “stepped up”
when Harper was out for 2 months with his injury this past year..
The “role players” all came together and offered a high level of production.
The Phillies had a better season record when Harper was on the IL then when he was actively playing in the 2022 regular season.
(They got hot and were something like 18+ games over .500 without Harper with a better winning percentage than with Harper.
The Phillies winning percentage the rest of the season was actually lower
when Harper returned from the IL.
Harper’s timing was off after the long layoff.
Guys really stepped up their games and more players played to fill in when Harper was out.
Harper played like the superstar that he is at the end of the season and in the playoffs.
Harper’s an odd duck. Had a superstar’s results in just two years out of 11, and in his 2nd MVP year finished 10th overall in the NL by bWAR. Despite the early start he gets hurt too much to make the Hall a near-lock. After 11 seasons his counting stats aren’t all that impressive, and he’ll be headed increasingly to a DH role as the injuries pile up.
Can he last?
He’ll be out way later than May…he has to throw…I mean, tough break for Philly Xander at SS might be your priority now?
Matt Gelb, who covers the Phils tweeted that the team expects him back as the DH by the All Star break….
Glad to see the term “bonkers” being used. Must cause the analytics people to tip over.
Well nowthe Phillies have their excuse for not making the playoffs in 2023.