Yesterday, the Astros introduced their new signee José Abreu and owner Jim Crane took some questions from the media. “We have to look at the catching, maybe another outfielder, and you can never have enough pitching,” Crane said, per Chandler Rome of The Houston Chronicle. In relation to the catching side of their pursuits, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reports that the club plans to meet with Willson Contreras at the Winter Meetings, which go from this Sunday, December 4, to Wednesday, December 7.
Their interest is perfectly understandable, given that Contreras is one of the better catchers in the league, particularly at the plate. This year, he hit 22 home runs and slashed .243/.349/.466. His production has always been above average, but this year’s wRC+ of 132 was a career high. His defense isn’t rated as strongly, but that could make him a yin to the yang that is Martín Maldonado, who generally hits at a below average level but is stronger on the other side of the ball.
Contreras almost became an Astro months ago, as the club apparently agreed to acquire him from the Cubs in exchange for pitcher José Urquidy. However, Crane reportedly stepped in and put the kibosh on the deal. Instead, the Astros pivoted to Christian Vázquez, acquiring him from the Red Sox. Vázquez is now a free agent, so Houston once again will need a catcher to pair with Maldonado.
Crane has subsequently dispatched general manager James Click and now seems to be running the baseball operations for the club, with a new general manager unlikely to be hired until the new year. Though Crane didn’t like the deadline deal, Contreras is now a free agent, making it more straightforward to attain him at this point. He did receive and reject a qualifying offer, however, meaning the Astros would forfeit their second highest pick in the upcoming draft and $500K of their international bonus pool if they did end up signing him.
In terms of the money, the Astros still have plenty to work with, even with their recent aggression. Their signings of Abreu and Rafael Montero bring their payroll to $183MM, per Roster Resource, with a competitive balance tax figure of $198MM. In his remarks yesterday, relayed by Rome, Crane said “we certainly have the ability to go at or over” the luxury tax. This year’s lowest CBT threshold will be $233MM, giving the Astros about $35MM of wiggle room remaining between them and the line. MLBTR predicted Contreras to get a contract of $84MM over four years, which would be an annual average value of $21MM.
Fitting Contreras into the remaining funds before the luxury tax line would be easy, but the club is also looking for outfield help as well. However, Rosenthal notes that part of the appeal in Contreras for the Astros is that he can play left field, theoretically lessening their need to bring in another outfielder. Contreras does indeed have some limited outfield action on his résumé, but most of that came in his rookie season in 2016. Over the past three seasons combined, he’s only seen a single inning on the grass.
Having Contreras fill a backup catcher role while also occasionally serving as the designated hitter and playing some outfield would be a creative way to keep his bat in the lineup while Maldonado catches but it would also come with risk. Though Rosenthal notes that the left field area at Minute Maid Park is relatively small, it’s hard to know how Contreras would fare out there given his lack of recent playing time in that position. Also, on days where Maldonado is catching and Contreras is the designated hitter, the club would likely need to keep a third catcher on the roster in order to avoid a situation where Maldonado is injured and Contreras has to move behind the plate, causing the team to lose their DH.
From Contreras’s point of view, if he wants to keep catching, it might not be appealing to suddenly be bumped into this type of utility position compared to simply signing to be another club’s starting backstop. The Cardinals and Tigers have been connected to him in rumors already, while other clubs like the Red Sox and Diamondbacks are known to be looking for help behind the plate. Then again, the Astros are the defending champions and don’t seem to be taking their foot off the gas pedal this winter. Perhaps moving from a rebuilding Cubs team to a surefire contender would be appealing enough that Contreras would embrace this unique plan.
They have the pitching even without Verlander. Their main weakness was the bottom 3rd of their lineup. Crane certainly seems to want to get the big bats this off-season.
Actually he would be the yang to Maldonado’s Yin but who’s talking Taoism here?
I like the idea of re-signing Vazquez more.
Vazquez has made it clear he wants to catch every day.
There is a 0.0001% chance he returns to Houston unless Maldy gets hit by a truck this afternoon.
Money talks. There’s not that low of a chance of anything in baseball. So do world series rings. Why not start Maldonado less??? He can still help the pitchers and work out a game plan with the starting catcher. I know that’s not all he does well defensively but he’s an automatic out so we have to factor that in. Your basically playing with a pitcher hitting.
I wonder what’s more likely: a 0.0001% chance or Maldonado getting hit by a truck?
I think that depends on where Maldy is rn. US prolly higher than Costa Rica for example on getting hit by a truck
Betting the truck would in worse shape after hitting Machete than he would be.
Better not give him any ideas!
So has Contreras.
I agree with their pitching they should worry about a defensive pitch calling catcher. Their offense is plenty good enough.
Why did they even trade for Vazquez? He barely played after they acquired him.
If JV wasn’t gone before, he surely would be now. I could still see the Astros getting Brantley, if his shoulder checks out in the Spring.
With the loss of Verlander, maybe the Astros look to fortify their bullpen even more so, by going after Chafin and Lugo.
People need to stop assuming that because LF is so small in Minute Maid, that it’s somehow an “easy” LF. It is not.
The scoreboard is a jumbled mess of wood and metal that creates weird bounces on every wall ball. The Crawford Boxes themselves create a super-bizarre cutout in left-center field that almost no one plays correctly. Foul territory features an area of seats where balls routinely hit in front of and bounce off at a weird angle toward the infield instead of back toward the LFer. There are multiple overhangs in the field of play and fans standing literally right above you.
My point is…LF in Houston isn’t “easy” just because it’s small. It’s a nightmare and needs someone who is comfortable with strange angles, weird routes, multiple variable-laden cutouts, and a giant wall that fielders with little experience hurt themselves on with regularity. It’s a weird, weird place, man.
Signed,
An Astro fan who has watched every inning of baseball in this park
Love a comment from Alkie. Throw back Wednesday to Astros Connection.
T the B, baby. Like old times or something.
Every single inning? You never got up to pee and missed an inning? Not one time?
Impressive.
Even on HSE?
Statcast says Minute Maid is the easiest park to homer in without making solid contact:
“Since the advent of Statcast™, 16.1 percent of home runs at Minute Maid Park have been neither barreled nor solid contact. Several have been among the most improbable hits in that span, including Alex Bregman’s home run into the Crawford Boxes on May 24 against the Tigers, which had an exit velocity of 88.3 mph and a launch angle of 27 degrees. A batted ball with that combination of exit velocity and launch angle had a hit probability of 7 percent, and had never before gone for a home run since Statcast™ was introduced.”
mlb.com/news/which-is-easiest-ballpark-to-hit-a-ho…
You keep posting that article from 2017 when Statcast doesn’t say that at all today.
For RHB its played roughly neutral the past 3 seasons.
If you’re referring the HR park factor listed on the Statcast page, you’re comparing apples to oranges. According to Statcast, “the park-specific number is generated by looking at each batter and pitcher, controlled by handedness, and comparing the frequency of that metric in the selected park compared to the performance of those players in other parks.”
“[T]he frequency of that metric in the selected park,” i.e., how many home runs are hit there doesn’t say anything about the ease with which balls leave the park. The article I cited is about the frequency with which balls leave the park without being barreled-up or driven with solid contact.
Go to the Statcast Park Factors page and see where Minute Maid’s HR factor ranked in 2017. It was middle-of-the-pack.
baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/statcast-park-f…
Of course, as a Tigers fan would love Contreras to come to Detroit. Still, have an eerie feeling the Astros will pay him well enough to come there and compete for championships immediately. Hard to say no when the defending WS champs come knocking.
Defense has always been the priority at catcher. I would rather resign Yuli, get a free agent outfielder, and make Corey Lee the apprentice.
Mr_KLC;
The Astros are one of the teams I follow.
Unless their coaching staff can totally rework Contreras, I’d rather they stay away from him.
The team is built around defense and pitching. Contreras calling a game is going to totally undermine that pitching staff. The fact
that he’ll get on base 2 or 3 times a week more than Maldy doesn’t remotely make up for the additional pitches that Astros pitchers will have to make as well as the additional runs they’ll give up.
Absolutely. The Astros restrict the opponent’s run total and their own bullpen usage with their approach to the position. That’s why Maldonado was still the #1 option over Vazquez after the trade was made. That’s why I just say to give Lee the backup job. Maldonado is great with the young pitchers. Why couldn’t he do the same thing with their best catching prospect?
@Mr_KLC and Samuel; Amen. Yep, defense would seem logical strategy applied to 2nd string catcher position by a team like the Stros. Besides paying $21 mil per over 4 yrs for a back up catcher/part time DH/position player sub sounds ludicrous. So ludicrous? Yes? No? Maybe?
Contreras is very average. .240 hitter. Nobody’s going to give him 15m.
Look for him to be one of last free agents signed.
Did…you…just use BATTING AVERAGE as the sole stat to define a player’s value in 2022? Do you still use leeches to rid yourself of the vapors?
For a catcher no less
Scandalous.
Lmfao! Leeches.
Batting average is an underrated stat that you can’t quantify. It’s been shamed in recent years, but you can’t Guage in statistics on what those behind you do.
A lineup full of Java Baez’s, will likely land you in last place. A lineup full of Jeff McNeils probably puts you in the playoffs.
Javy Baez has a career OPS+ of 103.
Jeff McNeil has a career OPS+ of 128.
K rate?
Baez 28.6%
McNeil 11.9%
Over a 600 PA season, McNeil would get on base about 41 times more often than Javy Baez.
What moron would suggest, even for a second, that a team of Javy Baezes would be better? This is the worst straw man I’ve ever seen.
Alkie;
I think you need to re-read Baseball Purist’s post.
No, I most certainly do not. I’m saying that his argument is beyond obvious. He’s trying to make it sound like a stat nerd would inexplicably take a team of Javy Baezes over a team of Jeff McNeils. No one would take that team.
I’m saying “OF COURSE a team of McNeils is better than Baezs, and suggesting that a stat person would think otherwise is insane.”
Alkie;
That’s not what he’s suggesting.
You’ve got it exactly wrong.
He has rather low character and would likely be open to cheating.
Bro, I’m not an Astros fan but let it go. Only a few players remain from 2017. They have proven they can win it all with out cheating and are one of the best run teams in MLB. Also they weren’t the only ones cheating that year. The Yankees were documented cheaters and other teams have been linked suspicion.
Prove that they haven’t cheated since then.
Imagine living such a miserable life that the only thing you think of are the Astros. Man that sounds awful, but have fun crying everyday of your life clown.
Prove that they have…you’re the one making the claim so the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence for your assertion.
Imagine projecting onto a total stranger that they have a miserable life based solely on a Houston Astro dig.
Prove they have
That’s not how logic works
You really think that they cheated again, with everyone watching them. You can’t prove they didnt sure, but I also can’t prove that we weren’t created by a giant alien spaghetti monster. They did there punishment, people up top got fired, people are watching them like hawks making sure nothing sketchy is happening. It’s like saying “prove to me that the rest of the league isn’t cheating.”
Prove your team hasn’t either. Since it seems to be pretty prevalent in MLB…MLB knew a lot of teams were cheating. Sent out a memo….Took a jaded Mike Fiers to have MLB to single out the Astros.
Prove that they have.
Nothingham if they’re still cheating they must be the greatest cheaters of all time with everyone trying to catch them at it. Time to either put up (the proof) or shut up. They’re an elite team right now & people like you can’t stand it.
Prove they have and if you can’t then let it go.
I am a Cubs fan and will say it is time to let it go, well unless it is the Black Soxs…
( Kidding or am I? )
Prove they have. Reminder: Altuve’s buzzer in 2019 was a myth.
Marinararivera, it’s okay to move on from the cheating scandal, but it’s not okay to persist in the false equivalence between what the Yankees did and what the Astros did. If we’re going to move on, let’s move on from the whataboutism too.
nypost.com/2022/04/26/leaked-yankees-letter-reveal…
What the Yankees did occurred in 2015 and 2016, and was materially different from what the Astros did:
‘As you know, on September 5, 2017, the Red Sox submitted a separate formal complaint and request that my office investigate the Yankees, alleging that the Yankees have employed “techniques of sign stealing and relaying, as well as other questionable methods of gathering information on opposing teams’ strategies,” which have included “using YES Network cameras pointed at [the Red Sox’s] coaching staff and players giving signs in the dugout, in order to gain an illegal advantage in the game.” My office has thoroughly investigated the Red Sox’s claims in this regard and has concluded they are without merit.’
nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/04/yank…
The Astros effed themselves, much like A-rod with his juicing, because they were good enough to win without cheating but they went ahead and soiled their reputation needlessly. They won this year without cheating. Their team was clearly the best. Let’s put this topic to bed.
The only reason I brought that up was because Nottingham was acting like the Astros were the only team to do something wrong. Cheating is everywhere but the Astros are the only ones that get crap for it. I was bringing it up to show no one is completely innocent
As a Cubs fan, this is a first I have heard he is a low character.
Can you imagine Contreras batting 7th in that lineup? Imagine if they added an OFer to already the best lineup in baseball..
You can hate the Astros if you want to but they know how to build winning baseball teams, for real.
Step one: Buy trashcan
Step two: make other teams’ whiny fans suffer.
Step three: Have overly defensive Astros fans deny cheating scandal with blanket statements that all teams cheat.
The Astros organization are the villains of baseball, and it’s working for them. No need to deny or defend. Embrace the hate and enjoy the parades.
Thank you! Someone with a sensible post on this. It is ok for other teams fans to reminder Houston fans about the past cheating over and over. That is what fans do. The trash can references will go on for decades just like Cal fans still joke about the Stanford band running onto the field before the game was over. It is ok for Houston fans to respond. Embrace the fan experience. For me, they will be the Houston Asterisks for years to come. But I am unaware of any 2022 cheating, and only four players remained (including 1B, 2B and 3B) from the trash can era. Same thing about reminding them that they “canned” their GM right after winning.
It’s ok to remind Astros fans of 2017 only if it’s ok to remind all the roided World Series winners fans that their teams also had cheaters. It’s documented that they did by the way.
By the way many Astros fans including myself wanted the GM canned a long time ago. Crane was extremely patient with someone who did nothing. Jeff Luhnow constructed 95% of current roster. Crane will find the right GM to follow Luhnow. Click was a non-factor.
And you and a couple of people like you have nothing to do but name call, due to extreme jealousy of your sucking teams “fortunes”. Have fun sucking.
@Von, I think it’s better for baseball if the Yankees take back the Villains of Baseball title. They did it for a long time. The Astros can just go back to anonymity.
Go right ahead. Since when was it not okay to bash cheaters? This is what sports fandom is all about.
Nothing wrong with taunting the steroid users in my book. They cheated. Some were caught. Some were not. Some won championships while cheating. Some cheated and still had losing records.
No matter how hard baseball tries, half the teams have to have a record below the median.
I have both good and bad teams that I root for. And none of them have been perfect on the ethics front either. Jeering a sports team as a fan is different than jeering a single Mom who works as a waitress and does not disclose all of her tips on her tax return. And saying people have nothing else to do? The same could be said for watching sports rather than helping out at a food kitchen for the poor. Even those who do the most charitable activities like an outlet for entertainment, the fan experience is just an outlet. When the Wolverine players plant their flag on the Buckeyes home field, it is not like a real war and no lives are at stake. Lighten up and enjoy the fan experience. And enjoy the sound of trash can kids banging.
Astros fans love to bring up steroids as if it’s equivalent. Players got suspended for doing steroids. Not some weak immunity. It’s not even comparable.
Von,
You know I agree with you ninety percent on this, but I do think for every steroid user who was suspended they were plenty more who were not.
I have no problem with jeering teams every once in a while for their “fumbles” but constant posts directed only towards the Astros and no other teams ( knowing that steroids and sign stealing has been documented with other teams) is not fandom, it’s idiocy.
Stroh*
Fair enough, but right now it still is pretty close to the WS victory. And a few Houston fans posted not on the clean 2022 victory but the “dynasty” from the sign stealing era to the present. So you get more responses now. By April it will be more sprinkles and less a storm. For now, fire virtual photon torpedos
I’m not even an Astros fan but fans still whining about 2017 are completely ridiculous. Get a life. They cheated, like so many others, got caught and punished. Done. End of story.
They were great before then and since then because they’re great at building winning teams unlike most franchises. THOSE are the ones you should be bitching about. The ones that do very little to create a winning organization.
Like MY TEAM, the White Sox. I wish they did what Houston did and won all of those games. I wish the Sox organization didn’t suck and they were like Houston. That would be f^%$ing awesome!
@Manny very true. I guess the main difference was that it was an individual thing where the Stros were cheating on an organizational level.
If you go on twitter, Astros fans have embraced the hate.
The dynasty comment refers to 6 straight ALCS appearances, 4 ALCS wins, 4 world series appearances and 2 world series wins. Those are facts. If some other team’s fans have that record, they are free to post regarding their dynasties as well. But I also don’t see a constant gloating by Astros fans. With some teams, they luck into 1 playoff appearance and we hear about it again and again. Losers gloat perpetually about winning once (maybe) and whine when others win constantly. Winners don’t need to gloat perpetually. Winners just win all the time.
The teams certainly benefitted big time. There are several examples of roided baseball players on world champion teams. And not just bench players. You think it didn’t help their teams immensely? The players were suspended in some cases, but not all. You just like to pick and choose the type of cheating. I’m not excusing any of it, it’s just getting old going on and on about just one team and one year when multiple teams have benefitted from cheating over many years (and some have done it many times). I can name the teams and the years but don’t want to waste my time with BS.
Crane going all Jerry Jones
We might as well crown them 23 champs right now.
They won’t even win their division. Their time is up and it will forever be known as a dark era in baseball history.
Lol why do you say that. They won last year and they have gotten better. You wanna bet? That’s one that your 90% likely to lose.
Must be fun being so salty all the time. How much you want to bet they win the division next year ? Come on real money how bout house vs house? Put up or shut up chump
I’d never take your shanty. There are enough homeless people. Besides, it would cost me a fortune to decontaminate before demolishing and turning your land into a gas station
That’s what I thought. Just keep liking your own posts clown.
Let’s see who else Seattle and Houston sign before the coronation, but Houston certainly will be the favorite for the division with Vegas.
The only thing your LA team has “won” ( or will ever win) is an excuse me World Series based on 60 games and no fans. You are a loser and will be one forever. Stop posting stupid comments and I will stop posting my stupid comments in turn
Just because people call me Hollywood doesn’t mean I root for any LA team. Yes I have enough capital to purchase them, but they are not my LA team. Wrong coast, fool.
Only your mom calls you Hollywood. Quit being such a loser get a job and maybe one day you can get out of her house
Then you really suck because your misery is worse than the west coast, fool.
Sure, why not him too
With Click being out, it’s anyone’s guess what direction the Astros will go but I would find it odd if they were to sign Contreras for anything other than DH/back up catcher (which I think is his perfect role).
I don’t love Contreras as a catcher, that much is obvious, but his value as a DH/super sub makes so much sense for a lot of teams. Give Contreras one pitcher to work with, catch once a week until the inevitable injury hits at catcher then slide him behind the dish. But he can also fill that role at first base or corner outfield as well. His defensive shortcomings wouldn’t be that noticeable on short stints and his bat in those instances makes up for it.
That was the role I wish the Cubs would have utilized for him, let Gomes take the lions share of reps behind the plate, working with young pitchers, give Contreras a veteran to work with and spell Yan, then take most of the reps at DH.
Jim Crane showing the baseball world how easy it is to be a general manager.
Crane is just doing what “Clicks” for them.
Crane has his son running his logistics business so has free time to step out of his golf game to say yes or no on a contract. Believe me he has an army working in the baseball ops front office including three assistant GMs and three senior advisors.
As do most teams, usually when owners get involved the situation gets worse. Crane has proven to be savvy with his decision making skills.
Please stop. It’s like salt in the wound as the Yankees sit idly by and watch Judge ponder a decision, trying to get their team back to its 2022 self. Meanwhile, the Astros just keep expanding the existing gap between themselves and the rest of the AL (especially my team) by getting better.
It’s a mighty good epoch to be an Astros fan. At least someone in the AL wants to win.
The evil empire was humbled.
Man, I don’t even k ow if we can be called the Evil Empire anymore. I think that ship has sailed. Really, the last big FA signing was Cole, and before him….. 2009?
I’d love to see the moniker won back though! Especially with Hal’s money.
I’m a gullible loser; does this amazing offer apply to suckers like me?
I cannot say I am a big fan of Willson myself and I actually like his younger brother better (who is on my favorite team btw). On the other hand he is still a top catcher in MLB and makes the Astros even stronger with him as the starting catcher. Astros going all in on the batters.
We have been trying to reach you about your car’s extended warranty.
This actually seems like a bad investment for the Astros, and a poor use of the caliber player that Contreras is. Contreras should be an every day catcher somewhere. The Astros have Diaz and Lee ready to step in to the second catcher role. Both of them can hit, particularly Diaz. Lee is a very strong defensive catcher and has some pop. Overall, this just doesn’t seem like a good match.
Contreras is a terrific player but I agree with MuteButton. I would rather sign a guy who can play left field and add a lefty to the bullpen than add a catcher. Korey Lee is a 2018 first round pick catcher, really well thought of defensively and hit 25 HRs in AAA last year. Lee should be the starter by 2024 when Maldonado’s contract is up.
So, if it’s between Bennintendi or Contreras, I assume you’d take Bennintendi then?
I can see the logic with both moves. I’d probably take Benny given their need for a LFer myself (and a LH bat).
Certainly Benintendi. He’s a classy ballplayer, .300 hitter, and has been on a world series champion Red Sox team. He’s sort of the younger version of Brantley – line drive hitter, clutch, and can play a good left field.
Benintendi still can’t play in Toronto, though, can he? I get that the Astros will only play a couple of games there but imagine they get to the playoffs.
I think Cañada has done away with the COVID restrictions on ballplayers
One more thing that I just realized. Contreras is from Venezuela as Altuve is. So there may be a connection there that is an overriding part of the interest.
I think they should give the backup job to Korey Lee. Sure, Contreras is a good catcher, but I’d rather they use that $$ to beef up their already awesome bullpen and grab a quality OF…and still have a sliver of a chance to resign JV.
I think Yainer will be chosen 1st in ‘23. Assuming they don’t sign a veteran backup.
Wilson C. Would be someone you just don’t have as your every day catcher. His game calling has always been shoddy and pitchers prefer anyone but him when he caught is Chi-town.
All we heard about during the postseason was how valuable Maldonado is to the pitching staff. If that’s so, I question the wisdom of signing a bat-first catcher on a costly contract.
Does this mean Contreras gets the lion’s share of the catching duties? Baseball Prospectus ranks him one of the worst defensive catchers both in fielding and framing.
I’d be hesitant to risk weakening the team’s greatest strength, pitching, to bolster an offense that already scores enough to win.
Great points, Fink. Looks like they should sign a good back up catcher for Maldonado if possible.
Agree.
Its always smarter to give up 2 draft picks and 15% of your IFA pool money than a back of the rotation starter. /s
Sean Murphy seems like he belongs in Houston. Wilson Contreras seems out of place with the pitching staff of the Astros. He’s not a good catcher.