For over a month now, it’s seemed like the White Sox would let Jose Abreu join a new organization and install Andrew Vaughn at first base. That became official this week, when Abreu signed with the Astros. However, the Sox didn’t just completely turn their back on him. “The White Sox made me an offer, it was a really good offer, but we’ll leave it at there,” Abreu said in his introductory press conference, per Chandler Rome of The Houston Chronicle.
Without any details, it’s hard to say exactly how hard the White Sox tried to retain Abreu, but it wasn’t enough either way. Abreu’s interest seems to have been quite wide, as it’s already been reported the Guardians made a three-year offer and he was also a top target of the Red Sox. Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reports that the Padres also made a three-year offer while Craig Mish of the Miami Herald reports that the Marlins were at the table as well. Regardless, what’s done is done and Abreu is an Astro now.
One person who was involved in the deal coming together was former Astro Jeff Bagwell, as Crane said he and assistant general manager Bill Firkus flew to flew to Miami to negotiate the deal with Abreu, per Rome. It was recently reported amid the departure of general manager James Click that Bagwell has been working with the front office in some capacity, sitting in on meetings and things of that nature. Bagwell is apparently one of Crane’s most trusted advisors and it seems his level of engagement has increased in Click’s absence. However, it doesn’t appear as though it will go much farther, as he insisted to members of the media that he does not want the open general manager position and wouldn’t interview for it if asked, per Rome.
In other Astros news, Mark Berman of Fox 26 reports that Gary Pettis will return as the third base coach, with pitching coach Bill Murphy returning for 2023 as well. Pettis has been in that role since 2015 while Murphy just got his job title a year ago when Brent Strom parted ways with the club.
I’m other Jeff bagwell news he flamed click for being too focused on the number and not the people
stats – Astros front office showed they value Abreu and truly wanted him. It’s a much better approach than Bloom and his “Here’s my offer, come take it or leave it” approach that has netted him nothing thus far this offseason. Have there been ANY reports of Red Sox management flying out to lure players into signing a contract? Did they meet with Senga, Devers, Abreu or Xander in person? Doesn’t sound like it.
And it was just a few weeks ago when Bloom said Xander was their “top target”, so all these reports about Abreu being their “top target” makes it difficult for anyone to believe what the Red Sox say.
What I read was that Abreu was the Red Sox top non-internal target.
1. Yes, they’ve gone to see Devers: mlbtraderumors.com/2022/10/large-gap-remains-betwe…
2. Devers is not a free agent. With all of the gaps the Red Sox have on their roster I wouldn’t necessarily be prioritizing visits and meetings with a player under club control knowing that the roster needs to be supplemented by players on the open market. I’m sure they want to get an extension done with Devers but there are also a ton of moving parts that front office needs to get aligned this off-season.
Should have traded Abreu when they sold off Sale, Quintana and Eaton.
No. The front office were wise in keeping ‘Pito’ as their core slugging 1B and mentor for all the subsequent Cubans and Latinos the White Sox acquired since those trades were made. Abreu was likely the determining factor in persuading Luis Robert to sign with the White Sox as the last ‘expensive’ international free agent before the rules changed.
The White Sox mistake was doubling down on more 1B/DH prospects with top draft picks like Andrew Vaughn, Gavin Sheets and Jake Burger. They also should have known that Eloy Jimenez wouldn’t become an adequate defensive corner outfielder as he bulked up during his minor league development. He just added to the surplus of DH candidates on their MLB roster.
Abreu had no bearing in signing Luis Robert or anyone else and fat lot of good his “mentorship” or whatever did considering the current position of that organization.
B.S. When the White Sox first signed Jose Abreu as an international free agent in 2013 they had many competitors including the Astros. Their winning offer wasn’t an overpay and was definitely influenced by the long standing aura of former White Sox in Cuba that included Minnie Miñoso and two others in José Contreras and Orlando ‘El Duque’ Hernández who were instrumental in their 2005 championship win over those same Astros. Miñoso and Contreras were also utilized by the front office in the recruitment of Abreu. Additionally, the White Sox had two Cuban members on their 2013 roster in SS Alexei Ramírez and LF Dayán Viciedo who were heavily involved in the recruitment of ‘Pito’.
The same thing occurred with the hotly contested signing of Luis Robert in 2017. While the White Sox didn’t get a discount for inking Robert to his $26MM signing bonus and matching penalty, they did have Abreu, Contreras and newly acquired Yoán Moncada involved in their recruitment process.
While Aaron is right about recruitment, harambe is right about the current position of the org in regards to leadership. Yeah yeah Abreu was out there almost every day, and probably should not have been as injuries also affect one’s performance, but considering the rumblings on lack of leadership in the clubhouse, you have to wonder what kid of leader he was for the Sox (at least last season)
Hard to disagree with a Harambe. Don’t make him mad!
Robert signed because of $. Full stop.
Abreu’s “leadership” didn’t make a difference in the standings except maybe in 2020 and 2021 and now he’s GAWN.
Abreu’s first 3 seasons with the White Sox were during their “mired in mediocrity”/Robin Ventura era. His next 3 seasons saw the White Sox in full rebuild mode. It’s impossible for any single player, maybe even two or three players (see Angels) to impact their team’s standing in a meaningful way. That said, when Abreu finally had a team worthy of contending he won the AL MVP award for his effort in the abbreviated 2020 season that also saw the White Sox break a playoff drought that dated back to 2008. They also won the AL Central the following year before their unexpectedly disappointing 2022 season.
During his entire 9-year stay in Chicago, Abreu’s clubhouse stature and leadership was never questioned. Pito will offer those same qualities for the Astros, a team that’s likely to continue their long running streak of postseason appearances through the length of his contract.
Btw: Your argument regarding Abreu and the White Sox was done with the benefit of hindsight. My points, not so much.
They would still have the same # of titles and would be better positioned for the future if they had traded him during their fire sale.
Once again with the hindsight. Find a new angle or give your argument a rest.
I love when people start posts with “No”. Makes me wonder if my wife also posts on this site.
He’s pear shaped and so are his siblings and parents. There’s nothing that would lead any talent evaluator with half a brain that he’d become a serviceable corner outfielder. He has DH written all over him.
Bagwell is on the Astros’ broadcasts a few times a year. Not only does he have a high baseball IQ, he is also extremely personable. I think he could talk to a brick wall and keep it’s attention. He is a great representative of the organization and can relate well with potential free agents.
Makes me wonder why he never went into coaching. I always expected him to do so
He was the Astros hitting coach for 1/2 a season (latter half after hitting coach was fired) and did really well but didn’t want the continuous travel any longer
Because he doesn’t need the money and it’s a lot of time.
@mets that is silly nonsense talk. Guys like Moses Alou, Carlos Beltran, and Aaron Boone made plenty of money playing at the MLB level. Then they went onto coaching. Even Ozzie Guillen (ex white Sox manager) made plenty playing ball and went onto coaching professionally.
What stro said above makes more logical sense to why he isn’t into coaching. I always thought he would make an awesome manager/coach. Back when the Astros were in the NL Central, I loved watching the guy play and staying focused on the field. I watched him play at both 3 Rivers and PNC Park. One of my favorite non-Pirates players in that time. The other was Ricky Henderson, but that is a different discussion. Bagwell is one of the few whose baseball IQ is off the charts. This guy would position himself in the exact location to where the batter would hit the ball without making more than 2 steps. Absolutely amazing to watch when he came to Pittsburgh
He said the same thing as I did. He didn’t want to spend his time traveling or the commitment.
All people are not created the same. There is no reason to believe that Bagwell would want to coach, just because those guys did.
@fivepoundbass how can you flip that and take it to something I wasn’t even implying. It was referenced towards Mets saying he doesn’t need the money. But the two together with what those guys made as a player to them getting into coaching. You went completely out of reference and scratching my head trying to understand your logical input. I made an opinion what I thought he would do. I even stated I respect his decision to not get into coaching.
My only logical explanation you never read the post and only replied to what you felt and never understood the conversation. Sort of like, walking into a middle of a conversation and hearing part of the conversation and trying to give an opinion that isn’t completely taken out of context
Negative
He worked extensively training Yuli to play 1B after he was signed.
I still remember the time he said the guy was fixing to try and steal home about 30 seconds before he did.
I love listening to him do color on the games.
I loved when he was the color commentator. Not so much when he was a third wheel.
Agree on his color commentary. He really understands how ball players think, the nuances of the game, and is big on relationships. He likes analytics but wants a mix of analytics and “gut”. Which is exactly the way Dusty thinks. Luhnow was big on analytics but had some real baseball men on his team. Example is Astros really focused on spin rate, but they also had a terrific pitching coach in Brent Strom who could relate to his pitchers. Click was almost exclusively analytics focused, which was his downfall with Crane.
Stroh, thanks for mentioning Dusty.
Crane’s focus seems to be on current team make up. When you have a manager like Dusty who needs a GM to address the now! Get next year set up, then bring on a PoBO to address the future.
Crane: “What/who do you need for next year?”
Dusty: “Get me Abreau, extend Montero”. “And I want to keep my staff/coaches in place as much as possible”.
Crane: “Done”.
Very frankly that’s what is happening. And Crane has plenty of people in baseball ops paying attention to drafts, rule 5, players that can be traded for, trade values, minor league ops etc.
He does? He lost Putila to the Giants. He lost Ocampo and his top international scout to the Marlins. He fired Click, his two top assistant GMs, and the head of minor league baseball operations. 11 other people left from positions in minor league coaching, amateur scouting, analytics, and baseball operations.
Seems like Crane is listening to Dusty and Bags to go old school and decimating the baseball operations, analytics, and scouting staff that made his organization great.
McKinsey Quarterly published an incredible article on the Astros, “How the Houston Astros are winning through advanced analytics” that detailed HOW and why they put together the team you saw on the field in 2017 and and update that detailed how that contribute to the team in 2022.
If they take the humongous step back from the level of data analysis that Luhnow brought to the team, they will soon become the team they were when Luhnow arrived. Are you ready to return to the old school days of Ed Wade?
So please do that Crane. We are all tired of watching your teams excel.
Putila and Ocampo went to promotions with other teams while Click was around. Most of the other folks that left were while Click was there and replaced. This is normal churn of baseball ops. Crane fired Click and one assistant GM and promoted two other long term members of the organization to Assistant GM roles. And yes there is a large organization in place. He’ll find a new GM.
Putila and Ocampo went during the playoffs when the writing was on the wall about their boss Click. ALL the other people that were fired or left have done so since the WS winning season ended.
No one has been replaced. That is the entire point. A couple of flunkies were promoted. Crane thinks he can do it without a GM or POBO.
I still think it was a mistake for him to have fired Luhnow? I’m not a Astros fan, but that man has a great baseball mind, just look at all of the 8th round picks or lower he drafted on the 2013 NL Pennant team? Lol then what he did for the Astros? Valdez and Vasquez for 10k each? No wonder mlb scapegoated him?
Crane would be a fool to squander the Astros advantages in video scouting and analytics. And he paid to set up those systems with Luhnow, so he’s probably just as aware as how advantageous they are. The disconnect is Luhnow worked together with Crane and Click wanted to run the show, with rumors of him wanting Dusty Baker let go last offseason and some of the trades that were shot down.
Ownership has a prerogative to replace people who aren’t working with them.
Pads Fans,
Hope you are doing well. Crane recently promoted Sarah Gelles to Director of R&D. The Team increased the R&D budget for 2023.
Astros are set to add several more data analytics positions to its staff.
Sarah is one of the highest ranking female executives in MLB. I would not classify her a flunkie – she possesses one of the brightest minds in the sport and is a strong proponent of using data analytics to improve Team performance on the field.
Since end of the 2017 season, the Astros’ personnel turnover has been extraordinarily high. former GM Luhnow stirred some controversy when he terminated employment for 100% of personnel in two scouting units.
He brought Campo to the Astros FO in 2017 where he served as an interpreter (although he was given the title of Assistant GM). Astros redeployed him back to scouting in 3022. Campo wants to keeping serving in the front office.
Since firing Luhnow, Crane’s staff has worked hard to reconstitute the scouting department. At one point, Astros had the lowest number of scouts of any team in MLB.
Crane integrated traditional baseball methods with a modernized, data-driven approach to managing baseball operations.
I’m sure the money and years the wsox offered was just low enough to ensure Abreu walked. As for loyalty, Reinsdorf once said that Abreu would finish his career in a wsox uniform. unless he wears it under his Astros uniform, one more lie from Jr.
Jerry is a greedy man with ambitions only to further line his pockets. He has no intention of intentionally building a WS worthy roster. He’s a business man who knows to do just enough to ensure profits are up to par. I’m sure he finds solace in knowing he’s respected by other rich old men with no morals.
This is just nonsense, Darryl. Do you really believe offering a player millions of dollars makes the owner cheap and a man with “no morals.” Abreu found an offer he liked better, and he took it. That doesn’t make JR either cheap or immoral. But you seem very good at spending other people’s money.
I don’t think he said anything about spending anyones money? Lol he talked about profits? And knowing he’s repected by others in the same social ranking? You know like Kate Upton and Justin Verlander getting married, or Stan Kronke and Ann Walton? For some of these people there’s a club in this world, and if you have enough money you’ll get to join Sam’s Club? If you don’t SOL looser? Go shop at Walmart or some other store that doesn’t require a social status to get in the door
Although I agree with him being a “greedy man,” remember that he brought six titles to Chicago via Da Bulls and another with the White Sox. That’s better than a lot of other rich men with no morals.
He also told his heirs that, when he dies, sell the Sox and keep the bulls. That’s where he’s thrown his money to. By the way, I HATE basketball. Even though I’m a Chicago in, I never watched one second of the bulls during their championship runs.
He has brought 1 WS in 40 years Sorry that’s terrible.
One WS title in 40 years that’s Brutal.
1 WS in 40 years that’s Brutal.
Five of those were because of Michael Jordan. Not because of Jerry Reinsdorf.
Jerry just dumped $37 million a year for Zach Levine for the Bulls. He should sell one or the other (preferably the Sox) and focus on one game.
Someone wrote last week that Mr. Crane was talking with Jeff Bagwell…and that was bad.
Hummm…..
Now we see one of the things he was talking to him about.
I love Bagwell, but he would not make a good GM. Don’t see him grinding through scouting reports leading up to the draft or staying up until the last second working the phones at the trade deadline.
I want someone hungry, and I don’t think Jeff would be that guy. Always love hearing him talk baseball though!
itsgonnahappen;
Who says he’s going to be a GM?
Staying up at the trade deadline? Yeah that 6pm eastern cut off time is late for the old guy.. you’re right he would be a terrible GM. Lack of commitment and can’t stay awake aren’t good qualities.
I do not see him as GM either. Yes he is knowledgeable with baseball and more but want someone more fitting for right reasons too. Luhnow did good as well. Some of the people he got the team. I was not too crazy with Bagwell when was hitting coach briefly. I think he should just stay in advising role
Luhnow signed Valdez and Vasquez for 10k each…. lol yeah he did good best GM the Astros have ever had
He has no desire to be GM. He said so.
Good Luck Jose,
As a Sox fan I hate to see you leave, but I understand the business side of the game. The White Sox owners and more importantly THE FANS, know what they lost and you will be missed in the lineup.
Trivia: Both Jeff Bagwell and Frank Thomas were born on May 27, 1968.
Yes
Jeff Seventh Ballot Bagwell
Should have been first ballot. He played on some very good Astros teams that choked in the playoffs. Sort of like Kershaw and the Dodgers.
Pretty big gap from your ‘should have been first ballot’ nonsense to the reality of seventh and elected out of pity.
Sliderwithrottencheese, 7th round HOF is still HOF. Which round did you get in?
No pity involved with HOF selections – it was the steroid era and several HOF caliber players were put on pause. Glad he got in. Great Astro.
The Hall is below me. I deserve my bust carved on Rushmore.
Probably your mount is carved in your cheese.
2004 and 2005 were not chokes
I have a feeling Andrew Vaughn has a big year now that he doesn’t have to worry about playing outfield anymore.
IF they play him more. Abreu played just about every game last season while Vaughn spent more time on the bench under Larussa’s “leadership”. And Vaughn still led the team in hr and rbi. Can’t wait to see what he does in 2023.
Vaughn isnt a big target at first base, I think Sheets starts at 1st with Vaughn in right field.
Well you need a big target if you are taking throws from Moncada and Anderson… Yeesh.. If the Sox can find some more accurate infielders then Vaughn will be fine at first.
Vaughn was a first baseman in college and was drafted high by a major league (?) team. You don’t have to be Six-ten to play first.
Vaughn can hit, but Sheets is a 6’5 lefty, lefties have a big advantage at first, he’s a prototypical first baseman, and a far better option defensively.
I feel Vaughn is gonna give you 25-30 2B 13-17 Hr a .270/.310/.450 triple slash with 30 BB to 100 SO
Glad Pettis is returning. Another team would scoop him up in a minute.
Bagwell has a much better job than GM: Advisor. He gets to interfere with all aspects of the organization without having to deal with the grind and the headaches of a GM. He can take credit for successes, but have no responsibility for failures.
Probably true. Reggie and Biggio have similar jobs with the Astros but don’t focus on player acquisitions. They all get paid so there is some responsibility there but agree not the headaches of a GM.
Brady Anderson had the same gig in Baltimore too until Elias finally asked why are you here?
Well, if the Marlins were at the table for Abreu, why the heck is Garrett Cooper still on our roster?
Actually there have been some different interpretations to what he actually said about the offer that he received from the Sox, its also telling his comments about why he went to the Astros about how they feel like a family. I think that’s a shot across JR’s ‘bow’ (sadly JR and his army of yes men are too thick to see it though)and what happened with the Sox last season. In any case I wish Abreu well, and now that he has something to play for on a team with deep leadership he should do well (barring injuries). Is sad, but the Sox had to move on.
If I were Abreu at this stage in his career my priorities would be:
1 & 2. Great Teammates & Winning a WS
3. Money / Length of contract (assuming not a drastic difference)
4. State Income Taxes
5. Weather
If at this point in his career he is worried about state income taxes, he has the wrong agent. He should have a great tax attorney and a small army of accountants making sure he doesn’t pay any regardless of where he plays.
That may be true but in my mind it is less about the money and more about voting against states that have income taxes or states with high income taxes.
California, Minnesota, D.C. & New York would top the list of no-go’s based on income tax alone.
Then you missed the point. Those of us that earn 7 figures annually or more don’t pay that income tax. Certainly MLB players don’t. Their tax attorneys and CPAs make sure they don’t.
My total tax burden in 2021, Federal, State, Local, and property taxes combined, was 3% here in California. In many areas of Texas he would pay that in property tax alone. While my property tax is locked in at 1% of the price my house was appraised at in 1987 when we built it.
Yes, I know you read about how high the state income tax is here, but with exemptions and deductions and write offs no one in the highest tax bracket is paying that.
Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure it was 😉
Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure you earn 7 figures annually 😉
I didn’t miss your point. You missed mine, Pads Fans.
No, I didn’t read about California‘s high state income taxes but I have read about many of their other problems that stem from bad government. High income taxes are just one symptom of bad government, imo.
Abreu wanted to be a career White Sox but I’m glad he got away and will now with the Astros he’ll see what he was missing. He’ll finally play for a team that isn’t afraid to spend money, that contends for a WS championship every year. Jose deserves this.
Amen.