The Blue Jays returned to the postseason, yet were eliminated after a devastating collapse in Game 2 of the Wild Card Series. Toronto may now face some tough decisions in how to best take the next step forward as a contender.
Guaranteed Contracts
- Jose Berrios, SP: $116MM through 2028 (Berrios has opt-out clause after 2026 season)
- Kevin Gausman, SP: $91MM through 2026
- George Springer, OF: $90MM through 2026
- Yusei Kikuchi, P: $20MM through 2024
- Hyun Jin Ryu, SP: $20MM through 2023
- Matt Chapman, 3B: $12MM through 2023
- Yimi Garcia, RP: $6MM through 2023 (includes $1MM buyout of $5MM club option for 2024; option vests if Garcia pitches 49 innings or makes 49 appearances in 2023)
- Lourdes Gurriel Jr., OF: $5.4MM through 2023
- Whit Merrifield, 2B/OF: $7.25MM through 2023 (includes $500K buyout of $18MM mutual option)
Option Decisions
- Jackie Bradley Jr. OF: $12MM mutual option for 2023 ($8MM buyout, paid by the Red Sox)
- Anthony Bass, RP: $3MM club option for 2023 ($1MM buyout)
Other Financial Obligations
- $4,333,333 owed to the Rockies as part of the Randal Grichuk trade
Arbitration-Eligible Players (projected 2023 salaries via MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz)
- Teoscar Hernandez (5.097): $14.1MM
- Raimel Tapia (5.020): $5.2MM
- Adam Cimber (4.156): $3.2MM
- Trevor Richards (4.084): $1.5MM
- Bradley Zimmer (4.077): $1.3MM
- Danny Jansen (4.050): $3.7MM
- Vladimir Guerrero Jr. (3.157): $14.8MM
- Tim Mayza (3.156): $1.9MM
- Cavan Biggio (3.129): $2.6MM
- Trent Thornton (3.073): $1.1MM
- Bo Bichette (3.063): $6.1MM
- Jordan Romano (3.051): $4.4MM
- Santiago Espinal (2.149): $2.1MM
- Non-tender candidates: Zimmer, Tapia, Thornton
Free Agents
- Ross Stripling, David Phelps, Bradley (once mutual option is declined)
By the numbers, Toronto had one of the league’s best offenses, though the lineup was also prone to lengthy and almost team-wide cold streaks. While any team would be challenged by an in-form Luis Castillo, the Jays’ offensive inconsistency surfaced in Game 1 when they scattered only seven hits in a 4-0 shutout loss. In Game 2, an 8-1 lead after five innings seemed safe in the hands of a bullpen that had been pretty solid all season. However, “pretty solid” wasn’t good enough, as the Mariners roared back from the 8-1 deficit and then a 9-5 deficit to secure the 10-9 victory.
While two playoff games don’t erase the 92 wins of the regular season, the specific nature of the two WCS losses underlined weaknesses that lingered all year. And, with only a 35-39 mark against teams with a winning record, the Jays had a tendency to come up short against tougher competition during the regular season as well.
Some of those issues were solved when Charlie Montoyo was fired as the team’s manager on July 13, as the Blue Jays played better under interim manager John Schneider (46-28) than under Montoyo (46-42). This was enough to earn Schneider a three-year contract as the team’s proper manager, and now Schneider, GM Ross Atkins, team president Mark Shapiro, and the rest of the Jays brain trust has to identify and patch up these flaws in the would-be strengths of the lineup and bullpen.
In addition, there’s also the more immediate issue of a short-handed pitching staff. Kevin Gausman and Alek Manoah form a strong 1-2 punch atop the rotation, but then the questions start. Jose Berrios was very inconsistent in posting a 5.23 ERA (but also a more respectable 4.13 SIERA) over 172 innings, and since the righty is already locked up to a pricey extension signed last winter, the Jays can only hope that Berrios can get on track going forward. Yusei Kikuchi pitched so poorly that he lost his rotation spot, Mitch White wasn’t much better as Kikuchi’s replacement, and Hyun-Jin Ryu will be a later-season addition, at best, after undergoing Tommy John surgery last June.
There also isn’t any obvious and immediate help on the farm, given such uninspiring depth options as Casey Lawrence, Thomas Hatch, or Bowden Francis. Former top prospect Nate Pearson had another injury-plagued season and now looks ticketed for a multi-inning relief role rather than starting work. Current top pitching prospect Ricky Tiedemann has plenty of promise but only had a handful of Double-A outings, while Yosver Zulueta made it to Triple-A yet is still battling significant control issues. These promising youngsters may indeed play a role for the 2023 Jays, but not by Opening Day.
With all of this rotation turmoil, Ross Stripling was one of the team’s unsung heroes of 2022. After Ryu was injured, Stripling moved into the rotation for good, and he finished the season with a 3.01 ERA and an elite 3.7% walk rate over 134 1/3 innings. This excellent control helped Stripling offset a below-average 20.7% strikeout rate, and Stripling also got a bit of batted-ball luck in the form of a .269 BABIP.
Stripling is now a free agent and will be looking for his first multi-year payday as he enters his age-33 season. Though he has worked mostly as a swingman throughout his career and his overall results as a starter are somewhat hit-or-miss, Stripling’s success in 2022 and the league-wide need for pitching will earn him a good contract on the open market.
While Stripling’s price tag won’t be excessive, re-signing the right-hander might require the Blue Jays to outbid several other teams, and to make another notable investment in their pitching staff. It doesn’t help that Ryu ($20MM), Kikuchi ($10MM) and even Berrios ($15MM) are taking up such a sizeable chunk of the payroll, even though the Jays don’t know what they’ll really be getting from any of the trio in 2023.
If not Stripling, at least one more starter will have to be acquired, and perhaps two if the Blue Jays don’t want to risk giving a rotation spot to either of Kikuchi or White on a full-time basis. The Jays have had some notable successes (e.g. Robbie Ray, Steven Matz, Stripling) in acquiring starters during Atkins’ tenure, but with just as many misfires (Tanner Roark, Chase Anderson, and Kikuchi through one year), there is certainly risk involved in targeting another rebound candidate. But, given the money already committed to the rotation, shopping at the top of the market doesn’t seem likely.
Or, does it? The Jays have greatly increased their payroll as the team has become more competitive over the last two seasons, with a club record of roughly $171MM committed to the Opening Day roster. That record is already on its way to being broken in 2023, as projections from Roster Resource and Cot’s Baseball Contracts set the Jays’ payroll at around $192MM, with a Competitive Balance Tax number of approximately $217MM — within striking distance of the $232MM tax threshold.
That payroll number will likely drop at least a little due to some non-tender decisions. (Raimel Tapia, for instance, generated only 0.2 fWAR last season, so his $5.2MM projected arbitration salary is steep.) Since the Blue Jays have never really been close to the tax threshold before, it remains to be seen if ownership considers the CBT as an upper limit on payroll, or if they would be willing to spend beyond the threshold in the right circumstance.
Justin Verlander gave serious consideration to signing with Toronto last winter. Now that the ace is certain to test free agency again, would the Jays realistically be able to offer the type of deal (maybe a $40MM average annual value) it could take to pry Verlander away from the Astros or other suitors? If not Verlander, perhaps another top-of-the-rotation arm like Carlos Rodon could be feasible.
Moving away from the pitching side, could the Jays even get involved in the shortstop market? Given how public defensive metrics painted a grim picture of Bo Bichette’s glovework in 2022, the Blue Jays could shake up their lineup by moving Bichette to second base and signing one of Carlos Correa, Dansby Swanson, or longtime AL East foe Xander Bogaerts.
Since we don’t know how far ownership is willing to go with payroll, it may be prudent to not count on too many splashy signings. Also, it is possible the Jays might need some future payroll space earmarked for possible extensions for Manoah, Bichette, and/or Vladimir Guerrero Jr. If big free-agent moves might not be in the cards, the trade market could be the answer to the Blue Jays’ issues.
The farm system has lost some depth due to past trades, and Toronto will likely be hesitant to further deplete its prospect stock in any meaningful way (i.e., the likes of Tiedemann probably won’t be available). While Atkins has downplayed the idea of moving a player from the current core, that might be the most realistic way for the Blue Jays to make an impactful addition to the rotation, bullpen, or perhaps at another position in the lineup.
Between Alejandro Kirk, Danny Jansen, and star prospect Gabriel Moreno, the Blue Jays have perhaps the most catching depth of any team in baseball. This trio became even more valuable in 2022, after Kirk reached the All-Star team, Jansen posted an .855 OPS and 15 home runs over 248 plate appearances, and Moreno looked solid in his first 25 games in the big leagues. Moreno’s potential as a multi-position player could mean that the Jays don’t need to make a decision on their catching corps just yet, but trading a catcher has long seemed like Toronto’s most logical route to landing a big trade target.
Any number of clubs could use reliable catching help, but the Brewers, Diamondbacks, and Marlins stand out as teams who both need catching, and who have been frequent trade partners with Toronto in recent years. It seems less likely that Moreno would be the one dealt, since clubs rarely move prospects of his pedigree. But, moving Kirk or Jansen could land the Blue Jays a controllable starting pitcher, or an everyday second baseman, or perhaps an outfielder to play center field or one of the corners.
As for the players already in those positions, some plausible trade chips could be placed on the table. Both Teoscar Hernandez and Lourdes Gurriel Jr. will be free agents after the 2023 season, and the Jays may need to open up a corner outfield spot sooner rather than later for Springer, for both health and defensive reasons. Springer is probably still the best bet up the middle for 2023, though Whit Merrifield might get some time in center field as part of a super-sub role, or one of Jackie Bradley Jr. or Bradley Zimmer could be brought back as defensive depth.
If the Blue Jays do need to create some room in the budget for other additions, Hernandez’s projected $14.1MM arb salary could increase his chances of being traded. On the other hand, Hernandez has a lot more power and general consistency than Gurriel, so Hernandez might be the preferred option for a Jays team trying to win in 2023. Whatever a decision could be, it doesn’t seem like both Gurriel and Hernandez (or maybe even either) will receive contract extensions, especially not if the Jays are also trying to lock up Guerrero and company. If one or both of these outfielders aren’t in Toronto’s long-term plans, a trade this offseason might be the best answer.
The Jays might also look into dealing from their second base mix of Merrifield, Santiago Espinal, and Cavan Biggio, if they plan to deploy Merrifield in more of an everyday role. The 2022 campaign was the worst statistical season of Merrifield’s career, though he hit significantly better after the Blue Jays acquired him from the Royals. Depending on how much Toronto intends to use Merrifield in the outfield as well as second base, the Jays could dangle Espinal or Biggio in trade talks, and give rookie Otto Lopez a longer look in the infield picture.
As noted, Toronto’s lineup was quite potent last season, so there is a limit to how much of a shake-up the front office needs (or wants) to make. But, moving at least one regular create rooms for the Jays to diversify their lineup, whether that’s adding speed, more athleticism, or one or two left-handed everyday bats to a very right-handed batting order. The 2022 Jays had a regular lineup that was almost entirely right-handed and a bench that was almost entirely left-handed, with lefty swingers like Tapia, Biggio, Bradley, and Zimmer providing subpar offense.
The bullpen also tilted to the right-hand side, as Tim Mayza was the only southpaw who received significant innings last year. Adding another reliable left-hander is one obvious need, and Atkins has noted that the Jays will also look to add another power arm to a bullpen that was middle-of-the-pack in strikeouts. Anthony Bass and David Phelps both pitched well last year, so the Blue Jays are likely to exercise their club option on Bass and at least look into re-signing Phelps in free agency.
The front office hasn’t traditionally invested big dollars into the relief market, though they have been aggressive in adding new arms via multiple trades over the last few seasons. It’s probably safe to expect that same strategy this winter, though the Jays will have more difficulty in picking and choosing which relievers to keep from what was (the playoff meltdown notwithstanding) a decent bullpen.
While just getting back to the postseason was no small feat in the wake of the Jays’ near-miss in 2021, their playoff trips in both 2020 and 2022 have yet to yield a single win, let alone a series victory. The 2022 campaign revealed that the Blue Jays have to find ways to improve — both to just keep up with the ever-competitive AL East, and to establish themselves as a true threat in October.
Anthony Bass is a keeper.
.
He’s definitely a catch
I wouldn’t throw him back.
BULLPEN should be priority 1 they’re good everywhere else
A starting rotation of Manoah, Gausman, Berrios and a grand canyon of question marks suggests the bullpen isn’t the only issue.
Stripling is a free agent and might well not be back, Mitch White is not Stripling 2.0 right now, Kikuchi is a lost cause at the moment and Ryu isn’t walking through that door.
assuming they don’t go into next year with plans for 2 bullpen games a week, they need some work on the rotation too.
They really need to find a team willing to take on Kikuchi or Ryu’s contract to free up space for them, Too many underachievers in the pitching staff and guys like Biggio, Tapia, etc need to go.
Nobody’s doing that though.
Ryu is in his final year of his 4-year contract and will not likely be available to pitch until after the all-star break so not many teams will be knocking on the door for him, and he well could be a valuable asset in the latter part of the season even possibly out of the BP
I saw a rumor that Ryu’s contract is close to fully insured so they will be able to recoup most of that money to put back into the team.
Came here to say same thing jays have already come out and said their re allocating the ryu money this season
It counts towards the cap but the Jays will get that money back from insurance
There’s no way Berrios is this bad next year, right?
r i g h t ?
I fully expect we see a resurgent with Berrios firmly putting himself in the top 3 along with Gaus and Manoah
You have to hope because that fall-off came seemingly out of nowhere.
And as a technicality he already is firmly in the top 3, since the Jays only currently employ 3 major league starting pitchers. But I know what you mean. Once they fill the other 2 spots, he still needs to be a top 3.
Coming into this season I expected Berrios to perform better than Gausman. Oh how wrong I was!
Not only was it out of no where it was also one of the weirdest years I can remember.
He was either normal or awful, so it’s hard to even read in to the numbers
Jose Berrios 7/$131M and Javier Baez 6/$140M both signed nice contracts in 2021, are married to sisters, and both tanked in 2022. Maybe too much family celebrating $271M, and not enough off season work to live up to the $271M.
Have you seen the split on how truly weird his season was though. I can’t remember where I saw it but he made 26 starts where he gave up 3er or less over 5+ ip. It was the other 6 or so starts that ballooned his numbers. So while the end product is not great, when you break down the numbers he really wasn’t all bad.
The Jays better start developing some of their own players for use on the ML team. For a few years now they’ve traded youngsters for veterans and signed veterans – almost all of whom are past their prime and getting large salaries for their diminished production.
The farm system has pretty much dried up since Ben Cherington left.
This is a classic pattern of teams that have reached their peak and are slowly heading downwards. They need to rejuvenate the ML roster, and that starts with developing their own pitchers.
They don’t necessarily need to develop Manoahs. They can afford to pay for some pitching. They just have to put themselves in a position not to need to trade for Mitch Whites.
I’m hopeful that one day I read a Samuel post that isn’t completely awful.
I think you’ll be waiting for a long time
Right they only recently developed:
Gurerro Jr. (23)
Bo Bichette (24)
Lourdes Gurriel (28)
Alek Manoah (24)
Jordan Romano (29)
Kirk (23)
Jansen (27)
Espinal (27)
Biggio (27)
With top talent next like:
Moreno (22)
Tiedemann (20)
Martinez (21)
Having traded top ranked prospects likely at peak value
SWR
Austin Martin
Gunnar Hoglund
Weird, not a single notable player they have developed in recent years.
Toronto has been trying to win the playoffs on offense, but good pitching trumps good hitting in the playoffs.
Tell that to the Phillies!!!
Give it about a week and we will
And it seems like they’re constantly looking to upgrade the rotation. Jays have little choice but to go all in on a Verlander at this point. Shopping the mid market will only produce the same results they’ve been getting.
They have choice. They are kind of needing to make a decision about Kirk or Moreno who both have a lot of trade value and a team like the Brewers might be nearing the point of needing to move one of their big arms.
I’m thinking Ken Giles will re-sign with the Jays. Not that this is a cure all solution, it just seems to fit the mold of their reclamation projects. That, and having a decent history with the player, could help. The Mariners assumed the cost of rehabilitation, so it’s a nice time for the Jays to take advantage of a potentially key bounce back candidate.
Doesn’t matter. Toronto is a Leafs town and this is their year.
They’ll go out in the first round like every year
They will probably trade Jansen but it won’t return very much! The rare unfortunate instance where having to much catching depth isn’t so helpful!
More likely Kirk is traded than Jansen, but just my opinion!!!
He’s the better player so he will return a lot more ! The spicy move is to trade Moreno , maybe he’s a future star but far from certain but he can return a star player beck mostly by himself and it’s clear Kirk and Jansen can hold down the catching duties
I feel that’s a common misconception among Jays fans and others due to Jansen’s longer track record of anemic offense early in his career. After coming back from injury late last year, Jansen changed his offensive approach to pull everything and hit for the fences essentially and got something like 8 HR in the last month and then 15 hr this year in 200+ AB. If his new approach holds, he’s much more of a power bat then Kirk, as evidenced by his 141 OPS+ to Kirk’s 126 OPS+ this past season.
Both catchers rate as basically average catchers defensively (Jansen by most metrics is better by a hair) and Kirk is already being babied (2 or 3 games behind the plate per week at most) while Jansen can take a more traditional load defensively. Kirk looks to be heading to DH land before Jansen and Kirk’s bat looks less interesting as a DH.
Jansen is a little more injury prone and is 3.5 years older then Kirk (27.5 – 24), but if his new offensive approach holds, I see Jansen as the better player.
It’s odd that a 92 win team with a “young core” isn’t losing a ton (Stripling was great but there are lots of opportunities to add someone like him this offseason), but yet feels like a team that doesn’t have a lot of forward momentum.
They are a good team that needs to play better in leverage. That adds quite a few wins. The sameness of the lineup is one area to look at. Nimmo is going to cost a lot but would really help with that. Not sure it’s the best strategy to keep signing aging guys to big deals if you value flexibility. But that’s the skill set they should be looking for.
Bullpen is another area but I think bullpen management can help play the leverage better. Schneider showed a more modern understanding of leverage in his bullpen management down the stretch than Montoyo did. But it sure wouldn’t hurt to find a guy capable of the really high leverage moments. I like Bednar as a North/south guy with the four seam/curveball approach they don’t really have. Taylor Rogers might be a nice situational lefty with swing and miss stuff that is different from Mayza’s ground ball approach. They need the flexibility though so that they can stay fresh and not be locked in to a decent but not great pen. You want opportunity for guys to seize bigger roles. For that reason $1.5m for the best swing and miss guy on the team seems reasonable but I’d lean against it because Richards is fine but not optionable and gets that swing and miss in low leverage while not being terrific at run prevention in general. If you want that skill set you have an optionable version in Adrian Hernandez. If they are adding guys with guaranteed 26 man spots it should be the highest of leverage types.
Starting pitching depth is harder to add as your options are minor league contracts or trades. Maybe if they really do trade a short term guy like Jansen or Gurriel, they could improve the AAA starting depth. But otherwise you’re really hoping for player development successes. Not sure I see a lot to be optimistic about there.
A shutdown reliever and another lefty arm for the bullpen, followed by one or two lefty bats and a starting pitcher.
They should consider using their catching surplus to hall in a pitcher (Pablo Lopez?), and then look to St. Louis (Gorman, Burleson) and Pittsburgh (Bryan Reynolds) for the lefty hitting. And then maybe get Austin Meadows on the cheap as a reclamation project.
To trade for someone you actually have to give up something of value (usually). It’s already been said the pirates are asking for the moon in any Bryan Reynolds’s trade so what could the Jays actually offer for him? This isn’t 2K where you can force the CPU to accept any trade you put out
Jays do have pieces to make those deals, graham didn’t really suggest that they would be giving them away
Let’s hear what they could trade to get Bryan Reynolds Then I can point out how 10-20 teams could easily beat that offer
So you’re just content on being wrong?
Depending on the ranking system jays are anywhere from 16-20th in farm system ranking.
Half of the teams ahead of them in that ranking are teams that are not looking to trade prospects for an arb player with 3 years remaining either for control reasons or the fact that they aren’t currently competitive. ie marlins, Oakland, guardians, diamondbacks. Etc
jays have the number 7 prospect in Moreno, so unless you think Baltimore would offload Gunnar or Red Sox Mayer or Yankees Volpe, I find it really hard that you cant wrap your head around the jays being able to put together a good package for Reynolds.
So no you’re not going to list 10-20 teams that could ‘easily beat that offer’ you’re either purposely being a troll or just misinformed. Either way.
Well, Captain Obvi, thank you for demonstrating your intellectual mite. (Wait, is that the wrong spelling? Did I just reference a minuscule critter?) Perhaps I should put some more thought into how a trade could get done. How about…
Gabriel Moreno is one of the top prospects in the game. The Pirates already have a top catching prospect, so they likely wouldn’t be interested in Moreno. However, the Cardinals are losing their HOF catcher to retirement. So, they sure could be interested in Moreno.
And St. Louis has more good, young hitters than spots in the lineup, especially if Arenado stays and with Jordan Walker on the way. So, maybe they’d be willing to do a three-way trade that lands Moreno (and maybe another prospect) and sends Nolan Gorman and Alec Burleson to Pittsburgh. Or maybe it’s Juan Yepez and Burleson, or Gorman and Yepez. And then the Jays see what else they need to offer Pittsburgh to satisfy them for Reynolds, and maybe even to get David Bednar to strengthen the bullpen.
Maybe let Pitt take on the task of developing Brandon Barriera, while offering them some serviceable MLB arms (Mitch White was actually decent for the Dodgers), and/or see if Nate Pearson still has value.
Maybe that’s all too complicated, and maybe, despite the Jose Quintana deal, the division rivalry would make St.L and Pitt hesitant to deal like this.
So, how about something more straightforward that doesn’t net Reynolds: Moreno for Gorman. Although, Moreno is a little more valuable, and Gorman doesn’t completely fulfill Toronto’s lefty need, since he’s young and not a great all-around hitter yet.
So… That’s where picking up Austin Meadows on the cheap could be a good gamble, or maybe they take a flier on either Jesus Sanchez (Danny Jansen and Lourdes Gurriel for Pablo Lopez and Sanchez?) or Philly’s Darick Hall (for Cavan Biggio?). Or maybe Burleson could be part of the package with Gorman.
Ricky Tiedemann is a big-time talent, probably a top-three SP in the minors. So, he’s off-limits, unless somehow the Jays are able to pry Shane Bieber away from Cleveland.
How’s that?
Unpopular opinion, but I would shop vladdy and take the best pitching focused return. His “my house” comment makes me wonder if he really is a team player or just a primadonna. I’m not convinced that 2021 vladdy is the real deal at this point. The numbers he put up last year could be found in free agency for a lot less than he is gonna be looking for. Lock up Bo. Lock up Manoah. Get Shohei and lock him up too. Let vlad take his gong show elsewhere.
I do not get this, Bo did the “Not in my house” before Vlad, Harper also did it as have many other players, and yet Vlad is villainized for it, Just like the glove thing, and yet when it happened to Donaldson in 2015 nothing was said about it
Sorry. I’m not aware of bo doing it. There’s also a huge difference between “my house” and “our house”. The latter is fine by me. Regardless, I’ve always been higher on bo than vlad and would build around his dedication and hard work over vlads show boating. I know they won’t trade vlad, but that’s exactly what I think this team needs.
Here’s the thing about acting that way, passionate, emotional, whatever you call it.
You need to be good, there’s nothing wrong with Vlad acting like that, but he needs to be better at the plate, he needs to be able to back it up more consistently
He hit .274 with 32 HRs and almost 100 RBIs and as an encode to his MVP runner up season. I’d say he’s carried his own at the plate.
I love Vlad but his patience, launch angle and slugging took a significant hit this year. He lead the league in GIDP. If you want to be cocky and a show, you need to be elite. He had a good year but it wasn’t elite
What is your definition of good??? The dude has .900 OPS and 145 extra-base hits over the past two seasons, and he’s still just 23.
Was he at his best in ‘22? No. But he’s still one of the best hitters in the game.
He was not a top 30 batter in baseball this year. I still love Vlad, but there’s a reason why you needed to include his 2021 season to try to make your point
I would not let that bum Mayza go anywhere near this team next year, get rid of him, always gives up the long ball on tough situations, there will be better lefties to go after than this bum.
He’s a fine lefty out of the pen, he shouldn’t have been facing righties in leverage situations
Minor thing but… I’m pretty sure TOR doesn’t have an option on Bradley Jr. Not that they’d be picking it up anyway but he was officially released by the Red Sox and signed as a FA by TOR last year… so his option is no longer in play (other than buyout amount paid by Sox)
The buy out is an obvious decision. If I understood it correctly, if you can hinder a rival (Boston) team’s budget (hey, 8 million is a lot of cash), and save money for your team, that’s a no brainer move.
Yeah I was wondering the same thing. But I guess it’s possible mutual and player options carry over even if released?
Is it just me but Moreno looked like a star. Speed, can catch, can hit. Looks like he could play 3B or OF as well. Keep Kirk and Jansen as you will not get much for them. If you insist on trading a catcher, trade Jansen, he is the oldest.
You won’t get much for Kirk ? Lol
Can’t get much for kirk? Are you feeling ok?
Oh where to start to get this club to winning….
Firing Montoyo was excellent. He never should have been hired and was called so back in Oct 2018. John Schneider is a good manager but not championship caliber yet. He has some things to learn. The Jays won’t win with him in the role at least for a few years.
Gotta like Dave Dombrowski. It took him two years to get the Phillies back, As called in 2015, winning a WS will never happen for the Jays with Shapiro in charge of baseball decisions. Shaprio is a business and renovations genius. Let him work to his strength and hire another Baseball Ops president this offseason. Has anyone noticed that the Jays have drafted and developed exactly ONE starting pitcher in 7 years of Shapiro? There was a reason that AA refused to work for him. How did that work out for AA?
As for the team:
Trade Kirk for a upper tier starter and Jansen can mentor Moreno. Leave Moreno behind the plate and don;t ruin him making him a utility guy like they have ruined others.
Biggio is practically useless with the same hole in his swing that he has had since his first callup and worth very little on the trade market.
Trade Teoscar for more elite pitching. Teoscar is not liked by many in the clubhouse outside of the “Clique”. This is real and a problem and Schneider won’t be able to fix it. Teoscar has to go now while his value is high.
No more stupid Mitch White type deals.
As stated back in 2018 when Bichette was in AA, he won’t be a good shortstop. He will be below average when all is said and done. Eventually injuires will take a toll because of his violent swing. Put him at 2B now. Espinal is a gold glover in waiting at SS.
Berrios will bounce back. He lost his sinker. He’ll find it again eventually. Berrios was a good trade and signing.
Please extend Matt Chapman now. Please.
Ryu was called a bad contract at the time. He’s not worth anything in the rotation as is Kikuchi. Kikuchi is a plain bad signing and was called so at the time. Bullpen Kik.
I love Springer. Elite player. Needs workload to be managed to stay healthy. Play him in centerfield until he can’t anymore.
If Stripling can be signed to a 2-3 years deal then great. Any longer than that and he needs to be let go.
Tapia and Gurriel Jr are complimentary pieces.
Where exactly are you getting your ‘insight’ into the clubhouse?
I didn’t read the above post but I immediately knew who wrote it based on your response.
As I have said many times before in these pages, I know someone in the Bluejays room. And no I will not be sharing that info. Many people already know what I am referring too as well do many reporters but they are not reporting it due to the “code” and they are fearful for their jobs.
This is complete bull, you know no one. You’ve never had legitimate insider information. Your opinions are terrible
jimmertee;
Your points on what’s happening are on target.
However, your solution is pretty much shifting the deck chairs on the Titanic.
You like what Dave Dombrowski did? What he did was have the players and coaches working together on getting better. The manager coordinating it, and using all players on the 26 man roster (which kept changing) in roles they could produce in. In short – he and the manager worked to determine what they needed in different circumstances, then brought in, trained, and used players in those circumstances. In short – they 1) Made their players better; and 2) Put their players in positions to succeed.
The Jays don’t do any of that. I don’t think their BoBO’s heads – Shapiro and Atkins – are remotely capable of coordinating and overseeing their departments doing that. Dave Dombrowski is an exceptional baseball person.
Trades are nice. But there’s more to them then bringing in a player and penciling his name into the line up. The Jays cannot develop players – particularly pitchers, and particularly relief pitchers. The key is to constantly make your players better and put them in positions to succeed. All the quality organizations do that. Have you seen any of that going on? All the Jays do is make trades and hope. And their fans come on here and propose more trades and FA signings.
80 per cent correct…. NO ONE is trading away a top line pitcher…for Kirk or Teoscar… I do agree just get a decent hitting top fielder at SS… If the Yankees are dumb as the Twins were to let Kalefa go that would be a godsend. Espinal OK will take your word for it…
you can try and get something for Jansen., throw in Gurriel too. …should be able to. Springer to LF now. … Moreno and Kirk need 400 to 500 AB and that means C and DH… need a decent CF… even Bradley would work if can sign at reasonable price…
That’s just it dusty. His performance makes it hard to overlook the buffonery. I hope that he proves me wrong in 2023, but I am not sold on that outcome.
I wouldn’t call it buffoonery. But there is some areas the team needs to mature and hold each other accountable.
Will there be a Blue Jays chat soon like with other recent team offseason outlooks? Or will the World Series take centre stage for the next week?
They will go after Brantley on an incentive laden deal. They’ve always loved Brantley.
Don’t be fooled. This is a very good team.
The Jays need to invest in some youth on this team. They need to focus on bringing up more youngsters, and keep mind of that payroll that’s rising. A payroll that’s rising without an extension to two of the guys they supposedly wanna pay in Bo and Vlad.
The Jays need to add some young pitchers to this roster from their farm, and start to wait on the Ryu’s and Kikuchi’s of the world to leave, and save some money. They fired Anthopoulos over payroll management and a lack of farm, but these guys aren’t in a much better position signing guys and right.
To me they jumped to contention too early, signing guys like Springer, Berrios, Ryu, Kikuchi, they need guys who are under team control and stop throwing money around, because clearly it’s not working. And start focusing on payroll management. They might ruin the ceiling of this team by jumping the fence too early. Build it properly, or you’ll just shoot your self in the foot.
I don’t get the ‘it’s not working’
How do we define success? They have back to back 90 win seasons in the toughest division in baseball. The only true hole that’s opening up next year is the 4th starter position, everyone else is coming back so it’s not like they threw it all for a one year flash.
Back to back years 87/88 win teams have made the WS, they need to fix some holes and improve to give themselves a better chance in a short series, but it clearly is working, unless we only define success as a WS
@Dusty If they don’t go to a World Series soon, and when Bo and Vlad get extensions, (if they’ll even be able to afford two mega deals), then what is this payroll going to look like? To me it’ll only be justified by a World Series, or at least making it their a couple of times. Deep playoff runs, not get bounced out the playoffs right away every season. Those guys in management might be out of a job in the coming years if history continues to repeat itself. They spent a lot of money last offseason, when you do that, you’re telling ownership you’re a legit contender. Making it to the playoffs isn’t a success anymore. Not with a payroll that’s rising very quickly.
I don’t think you’re wrong but I don’t think you can take an early exit from a WC round as a ‘it’s not working’ playoffs are a crap shoot to some extent, they need to improve but it’s hardly gloom and doom, and I don’t think no and Vlad are going to get these mega deals people think.
If the jays don’t do anything in the offseason, they are are WC team next year. So they need to improve around the edges, fix some holes. But no doubt they are atleast on a path to success.
Mario93;
You got it!
I’d suspect their payroll is at or near the top of their budget as dictated by revenue. Yet many of the older players they brought in are getting more in salaries yet producing less.
The Jays have peaked. They haven’t rejuvenated their line-up with young players that can produce. Their farm system has pretty much dried up since Cherington left. Their solution for 2-3 years has been to constantly bring in older players from other organizations, and very few of those have contributed what the FO and fans thought they were going to contribute.
Most organizations wind up like this. Only a few – like the Astros – are constantly infusing young players into the line-up and cutting some veterans loose.
The Jays have pretty much done and are doing what the White Sox did and are doing.
@Samuel I agree .. When they bring in those vets, knowing Bo and Vlad will most likely be looking for huge deals, then they better win. Like you said, payroll is only rising year by year, few guys will come off the books in a year or two but that money will be allocated to Bo and Vlad, even then they’ll be paying more then what’s leaving obviously. So the payroll will rise even more.. When the payroll gets as high as it’s starting to get, the only way to justify it is a World Series. Or else you’ll have one of the highest payrolls in baseball without a championship to show for it.. which to me is a major failure.
Tampa Bay Rays have a payroll a quarter of ours, and we seem to go toe to toe with those guys in wins, and they seem to out perform us in the playoffs as well. So.. Jays management has to be better. Period. Even the Orioles are building their team unbelievably well in my opinion.. Investing in their own young players.
People don’t understand how valuable it is to have guys under team control… saves so much money on the payroll. Imagine if we had another youngster pitcher who was of quality next to guys like Manoah. And if they don’t have them in the farm, why not trade some of of your position player prospects to get those guys. Instead of going out and paying guys left and right who give you a 5era.
Yeah, the Jays at one point had a great farm, but like you said it’s quickly starting to dry out, and now where do they go? Oh yeah, throw some more money around on veterans and hope you win. And once again, that’s without huge extensions for Bo and Vlad. And also a bullpen that needs true strikeout guys.
To me as of now, they definitely mismanaged the organization.. and in the bigger picture it will limit their ceiling in the future years.
Your negativity is definitely way beyond reasonable and the fact that Samuel agrees with you might be the first tip that you’re letting emotions cloud facts.
The jays were a better team than both the rays and orioles last year yet you talk of them positively and the jays negatively? Why because they are spending money, isn’t that a good thing?
@Dusty With the payroll being a record going into next season, highest in team history as they wrote, it’s time for real results man. Real results. I bring up the Rays and Orioles because the two teams combined last year probably didn’t have half the payroll combined then what we had, and both teams had great seasons for their own standards. As far as us, to begin the season I think Vegas had us in the World Series, or one of the favourites at least.. So we definitely underperformed. It’s time for real results.
Like some have said, the real shortcoming of the shapiro-atkins era, in my eyes, has been an absolute inability to develop pitchers. 1 starter (Manoah) and 1 high leverage RP (Romano) in 7 years. I thought when we brought in guys from Cleveland we’d be printing pitchers like them in a few years. No such luck.
junior felix;
The Cleveland pitching machine was built after Shapiro was moved from Baseball Ops to the business side.
Just leave Kikuchi in the pen and he can be your new high strikeout lefty reliever. He had 24 K’s in his last 14.2 innings pitched out of the pen . He looked very good in his last few appearances and he could iron out the kinks earlier in the 23′ season to hopefully being a shutdown reliever latter in the year. If he gets that good it would be worth his 10 mil salary.