MLBTR will be holding live chats specific to each of the 30 teams. My Cubs Offseason Outlook was published yesterday, and today I answered your questions about the team! Read the transcript here.
By Tim Dierkes | at
MLBTR will be holding live chats specific to each of the 30 teams. My Cubs Offseason Outlook was published yesterday, and today I answered your questions about the team! Read the transcript here.
MLB Trade Rumors is not affiliated with Major League Baseball, MLB or MLB.com
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Wow this is a genius idea!
It is a good idea. But hopefully the next time Dierks decides to do it, he will have a better understanding of a MLB team’s roster. It sure seems Dierks has never heard of Hayden Wesneski or Matt Mervis – not to mention what the two of them are expected to bring in 2023. And Dierks conveniently mixes up the Epstein regime agenda, with the current Hoyer/Hawkins agenda.
Who’s Dierks? Not familiar with that person.
I know who Wesneski and Mervis are! They’re both mentioned in my offseason outlook post. Couple pretty interesting and MLB-ready dudes, not at all top prospects in the game. Highly likely both have a role on the 2023 Cubs, and not players the team can rely on if they’re intent on winning 90 games.
Just an FYI – Hoyer worked under Epstein for five years in Boston and for eight years with the Cubs! The Epstein and Hoyer regimes naturally have a massive overlap, but at no point did I mix them up!
Tim—why do you even answer the troll? Of course you have heard of Wesneski and Mervis and the fact remains that they have played a combined six major league games…and Mervis has a total of about 250 PA at AAA.
I hope they bring what a lot of fans “expect”–but let’s not go to far into planning any parade attributed directly to them.
As info, there’s a big difference between where the Cubs organization was in 2013 and where they were in 2021. Epstein more or less was facing a higher level of urgency back then, than the FO (Hoyer), is today. Also Ricketts I believe is now fine should the rebuild take a bit longer- as long as it appears it will be more sustainable. It also means Ricketts can pay less in salary.
As for my comments on Mervis and Wesneski, I bet you felt the White Sox would finish ahead of Cleveland. Not many experts saw the quick emergence of guys like Kwan, O Gonzalez or A Gimenez either. But I bet some Cleveland fans and FO did.
Dogbone—the urgency for Hoyer now is 100 times more than it was for Epstein. The fan base, of which I am part of, isn’t in a position to sit and wait. As a LONG time season ticket holder I actually sat in the room when Jed, Theo, Kenney explained the thought process and the plan. The initial thought was to start being good in 2016 and contend 2017. It happened much quicker than that.
With that, there are no more long build ups at Wrigley—Jed needs to put a winner on the field now. And–although it appears that way, it is 100% unfair for a fanbase to have any real expectations from Wesneski and Mervis—they are NOT Bryant and Lester.
If the Cubs can get 140-160 good innings from Wesneski next year that would be great….Do you really project anything more than 240/15/60 from Mervis?
Believe me, I would love to see Wesneski get a Cy Young vote or two and would love Mervis to come close to his minor league numbers, but to infer that Tim’s chat was misguided because there wasn’t a lot of focus on those two guys like they are the next coming of Bryant and Lester is just not fair.
And I agree on the Giminez comment because he was a key piece in the Lindor trade—-but you would be hard pressed to find comments on the the Indians page expecting from Kwan and Gonzalez what you are expecting from Wesneski and Mervis.
For all we know it could be Herz and Davis……
Wow!!! YOU were ‘in the room’! THE same room? Holy Smokes!! I defer.
And in answer to your question: Yes I am expecting a lot more than 240/15/60 from Mervis.
Mike127 I would be curious on why urgency is 100 times more on Hoyer than Epstein? Both were a part of the 2016 Championship. I’m having a hard time wrapping my brain around more urgency around a POBO who just won a championship 6 years ago vs. a POBO who was trying to bring a championship for the first time in 108 years?
Manfred—-ok, 100 times is a little much—-but in 2013 the expectations were to be contenders in about 2016, maybe 2017 and there was patience from the fan base, not urgency, as I think most understood and bought into the transparency that the Cubs had then.
Fast forward almost a decade, with a championship sprinkled in, the mindset of the fan is different….90 loss seasons aren’t as tolerated as the once were.
In comparing now to 2013 the Cubs aren’t the lovable losers anymore.
I think the hopes and buy in for Theo was much greater than Jed’s and the transparency was better then. However, the timeline was much greater, hence the urgency to be relevant in 2013 was less.
@mike. Mike, if losing isn’t tolerated, nor are long rebuilds, you must really have been livid three years ago when Darvish was traded! I bet you wish you were in ‘the room’ again with your friend Tom and could tell him just how upset you were. And what was our return again for Darvish? Owen Caissie and….? Boy, that sure was an indication for a quick rebuild. Really? And did you tell Tom how disappointed you were that he didn’t have Rizzo, Javy, KB and others, traded for more MLB ready talent so Mike wouldn’t have to go thru a long rebuild? If you don’t believe Mervis and Wesneski are already being counted on heavily, then I can only imagine how disappointed you just might be come mid February – unless Tom starts spending more on the Cubs, rather than political candidates.
Here’s the difference Dogbone—-I wasn’t livid when the Cubs traded Darvish, I don’t worry how Tom spends his money (he’s MADE and SPENT billions on this team).
What I would hope you come to understand because I would guess there is an age gap between you and me as your hobby is being a troll on these boards, is that I come from a generation where we said “Once Before I Die”. I have that “once” and I hope they win another championship before I die but I saw something that my parents and their parents didn’t. I need to keep that promise to myself and not be greedy.
I would like nothing more than Wesneski and Mervis contribute a ton in 2023….but even with adjustments coming they are still only the #12 and #21 prospects in the organization. Shouldn’t we expecting the same from Wicks, Pinango, Brown, Davis Kilian. Fact remains that those two have played in a combined six major league games.
I’ve live through a ton of Jeff Picos in my life. Wesneski is in almost the same spot that Alzolay was two-three years ago. Here’s hoping he can be healthy and be a respectable number 3 or even better.
I really think our hearts (for sure) and minds (I hope) are in the same place, we just look at it a little differently on the emotional side of it. (And believe me—-until six years ago at this time I emotionally looked at it differently than I do now).
I hope you pick up on the intent of this post,
Mike, Peace.
For the record I’ve been following and living baseball, and softball, a whole lot longer than you imagine. When Ricketts ok’d the Darvish trade, That was the White flag of surrender. He lost me big time because he didn’t follow through trading the others (at least most of them), at the same time. The Cubs would have received a much better return trading those players before the season began. Ricketts didn’t do that, only because he wanted to sell tickets.
As far as Wesneski and Mervis. Wesneski has a slider that is top shelf. And his command and composure appear to be as well. What he did at the end of the season didn’t appear to be a fluke. And Mervis arguably got stronger as he went through 3 levels this season. He spent 4 years at Duke. With the new shift rules, he just might put up Rizzo numbers, soon.
I’m not at all concerned where some agencies have these guys ranked. Remember: Jo Adell lol. Take care.
Not sure I understand your point on urgency. If you’re fine with the Cubs not trying super hard to win next year…cool? Be a Cubs fan any way you like.
Also don’t understand your point on the Guardians. No one thought Andres Gimenez might be a good player? He was once the 30th best prospect in baseball. If your point is that a team’s diehard fans look more objectively at their farm system than, like, Baseball America…nah. Fans always overrate their favorite team’s prospects.
Do some non-prospects become good? Of course, that’s one of the fun things about baseball.
I agree with mike127 – some interesting things about Wesneski and Mervis, he hopes they continue outplaying expectations, but that’s hardly how playoff teams are built.
Not sure I understand your reference to urgency either. I thought the Cubs should have shown more urgency immediately when they traded Darvish. Either by getting MLB ready players for him – or trading most of the core, at that time. Getting a better return than waiting till mid season. Although Alcantara, PCA and Canario could become solid. But that said, they are now, where they are.
As for Wesneski. I’ve seen probably every game he threw at the MLB level this year. Not sure how much you might have seen him pitch. But I’m quite high on him. No matter where agencies have him ranked. Case in point: Jo Adell. I will be happy to revisit the Wesneski and Mervis discussion with you, a year from now.
And until I see the Cubs sign a top SP or 1B, to push these guys to the back of the line, I believe they will be counted upon to play major roles in 2023.
That’s a really good point mike127 on transparency. I really liked that about Theo when leading up to 2016. He was super transparent. I don’t see that in Jed at all. I’m not sure if it’s because Ricketts won’t let him or if it’s just his style? That’s a good point about the lovable loser mentality not being tolerated anymore and I don’t think it is from the Front Office either. Otherwise they would have kept Rizzo and re-signed Contreras to appease the fanbase..
You may want them to just retool and win now. However that is rarely how reality works. More often than not teams are in an ebb and flow of contending. Especially with a team that was constructed like the Cubs, much of their cheaper young talent hit free agency at the same time. It is too costly to keep a team together in that fashion. It is the same fate that fell upon Royals contention window.
Well Dogbone you can do your own live chat and and answer questions and share your elite knowledge with the world. Don’t hold out.
But I’m willing to bet you’ve got nothing on Tim, it was an enjoyable experience, we all got to talk baseball in a civil manner.
I like these focused chats. Good for you. Please keep it up. Thanks.
My offseason Cubs outline:
Sign:
Brandon Nimmo – 5 years $85m
Carlos Correa – 8 years, $210m (first year $20m, second year $24m, backloaded after that)
Jose Abreu – 2 years $32m
Mike Clevinger – 2 years $30m
Nate Eovaldi – 1 year $12m
Re-sign Drew Smyly – 2 years $14m
If Contreras accepts qualifying offer, DFA Wisdom and play Contreras at 1B
Nimmo CF
Correa SS
Abreu DH
Suzuki RF
Happ LF
Hoerner 2B
Diaz 3B
Wisdom/Mervis 1B
Gomes C
Stroman
Clevinger
Eovaldi
Hendricks
Steele
Smyly
Wesneski
Still below luxury tax. Boom. NL Central title.
Yeah….ok.
What am I missing…who is Diaz?
Who is Diaz at 3B? And where is Morel?
Aledmys. I just like him in a utility role. Morel is a poor man’s Javy Baez. Great athlete, and could play a decent super utility role, but needs to learn to take a walk, and cut WAY down on the swing and miss. He’s fine off the bench, but the Cubs should make him steal someone’s job (like Diaz) instead of giving him one… but Diaz would be a stopgap and insurance for Hoerner and Correa with their injury histories.
People are viewing Madrigal all wrong, I view him basically as Tommy LaStella, a situational great pinch hitter who can hold his own everyday as an injury replacement. I was never high on Madrigal as a leadoff hitter but his bat to ball skills play and he will bounce back to be an around .300 hitter.
Bellinger at his worst played a good defensive center field, hit nearly 20 home runs, 27 doubles with 3 triples. With the new shift rules I’d definitely roll the dice with him and let him go back to his pull happy approach.
If the Cubs do not get Abreu, I’m fine rolling Wisdom to start the year then a Wisdom/Mervis platoon later. Or just move Wisdom back to third.
The Cubs pitching is ready, they will sign a guy, maybe two so they can limit innings on Wesneski and Thompson. Steele is the real deal. To suggest their guys “aren’t ready” to me suggests you didn’t watch the Cubs. If it was me however, I’d ride a six man rotation and have Wesneski and Thompson in an interchangeable swing.
Dupe post. Oops.
Sorry – meant 7 years not 8.. supposed to be $30m
AAV
I would use Abreu at first over Wisdom and Mervis, Wisdom is a fine defender but Mervis, by all accounts, is below average in the field.
I have zero interest in Nimmo, I would however go in on Bellinger. I would actually contact the Dodgers now and see if I couldn’t work out a trade vs trying to outbid 29 other teams.
I don’t have much interest in Eovaldi, Clevinger makes sense however.
I’m interested to see the Cubs interest in the shortstop market. Every one of the big four make sense for the Cubs in various ways
Unlike TD, I couldn’t careless about prospect pedigree… Wesneski looked filthy, so did Steele… do I care if they were top prospects? Not one bit.
I also think the Cubs have a foundation of a dominate bullpen… if Wesneski is pushed out of the rotation, having him, Thompson and Alzolay coming in for multiple innings is a huge asset. Huer and Hughes pitching the back end may not be lock down closers/set up men but they are not going to blow many leads.
I have a slight complaint about Madrigal being called “not a very good” utility guy… He will most likely be on the bench if the Cubs sign a big shortstop but Nico shifts to second and he is a great utility guy, bounce all around the diamond and not miss a beat. I’ll take Madrigal off the bench any day of the week because he can hit speed… And just because Nico is the starting second baseman doesn’t mean he can’t punch over to short stop to give someone a day off or as an injury replacement and Madrigal can step up. I’d rather have Madrigal only being able to play second than Morel on the bench able to play all over and that is nothing against morel. I’m looking at completing a roster and situationally, I need a hit late, I’m looking at Madrigal. I want him on my bench
I’d ask you this: even at Madrigal’s full potential, what does he offer you? Luis Arraez 2.0? Which isn’t a bad thing, but that’s a big bet for him to become that player, especially since he can’t seem to stay on the field. I’d love to see a Nick Madrigal for Keston Hiura swap. Kind of one underperforming former prospect for another. Hiura strikes out a lot, but he can play 1B and has power. The Cubs are in a spot where they can let him take his licks and have a full time go at it.
Abreu’s defensive metrics aren’t great. I’m not sold on the Cubs getting him, but if he wants to stay in Chicago at a reasonable price, it’s definitely worth it. He offers little for the future, but great clubhouse guy from the sounds of it and a good middle-of-the-order stopgap.
Bellinger seems to lost at this point, and he kinda falls in the same category as Madrigal and Hiura. You can hope he turns out, but don’t bank on it. A change of scenery could benefit all three of those guys or none of them. I love Nimmo bc of his on-base ability. He would be fat and away the best on-base guy the Cubs have had since 2017.
Pitching wise, I think the Cubs are going to hand out 1 and 2 year deals a lot, because they have a lot of faith in their system, but it’s obviously not ready. They are a big market team and saw drastic decline on revenue, so I think there’s pressure to put a contending team on the field in the short-term, which is why I gave Eovaldi the deal.
Oh, I don’t care whether Wesneski was a top prospect. He doesn’t “need” that to succeed. A player’s stuff can take a leap forward, or he can be taught new things with MLB coaches.
I do think many Cubs fans are reading too much into 33 innings Wesneski threw against subpar teams.
He’s an interesting piece right now – nothing more.
Cubs fans are way too homer-ish on Keegan Thompson, Steele and Wesneski. All three showed promise, but Cubs fans are acting like they are locks for success in the future. I don’t “love” any of the three, but I think they could all contribute next year. I am not nearly as sold on Steele as others are. I need to see more sustained success to be a believer. Thompson was never stretched out much more than a 4-5 inning guy. I think his best role is in the bullpen. Wesneski probably starts next season in AAA, and from there he will get called up to fill an injury or because his performance forces his way into a role on the MLB team. I don’t see him having a role handed to him on Opening Day.
If 1 of those 3 guys becomes a bonafide starter for the next 3-4 years+, I’d say it’s a success.
I’m a Cubs fan, but first and foremost, I’m a realistic baseball fan.
Again, sounds like you didn’t watch any cubs games..
Steele only closed out the season on a 7 game stretch posting a sub 1 era and over 12 ks per nine. He’s a big dominate lefty that got better and better as the year went on.
Thompson doesn’t have as elite of stuff but he carries himself with absolute confidence and swagger which is what a pitcher needs. He still has good pitches and locates well.
Wesneski doesn’t have the track record after just 33 innings but was considered by most scouts in the Yankees organization as their best pitching prospect. His slider is wipe out and he showed good control… I did see a handful of times where he missed with his slider which will get him in trouble if he doesn’t correct the trend but he didn’t get too wild, just a mistake here and there.
The guy fans are too high on, imo, is Assad.
You mention guys only going 5 innings like it’s a bad thing… apparently you haven’t been following baseball trend with deeper bullpens and only allowing pitchers to go through the order twice before getting pulled. It’s smart, analytical, baseball. The Cubs have done well with the approach and having guys giving you different looks out of the pen. That’s one of the reasons Keegan pitched so well in long relief, you watch Smyly or Steele for 4-5 innings then Thompson comes in exploding off the right hand side.
The Cubs have done well with that approach? They won 74 games. They don’t have anyone to eat innings. Over the course of 162, that’ll destroy a bullpen. Unless you’re carrying 16 pitchers, you need 1-2 guys that can consistently give you 6-7 innings. Show me a successful team that hasn’t had a couple guys that consistently did that.
You are clearly a biased Cubs fan. Try to take a critical approach.
The Brewers did exactly that for several years successfully and a lot of teams use that approach.
Also, clearly you suck at math or you’re unaware that relievers can and do pitch back to back.
Go ahead and look at how many pitchers threw 200 innings this year, most pitchers are expected to do five. That’s why if you watch and listen to games the talking heads discuss how teams no longer care about “quality starts” and worry more about having depth, utilizing the 40 man roster for call ups and send downs to supplement rosters.
The Cubs had an excellent team era in the second half, third in the league if I remember correctly, so yes, they have done well with that approach. It works very well with guys like Assad, Sampson and others.
I’m not Cub bias, I actually watch games and pay attention to trends and analytics. You should try to do the same.
And the team who uses the twice through the rotation model to a T…. The Tampa Bay Rays… averages 4.6 innings per start.
Can we retire the “do you actually watch the games” trope?
Eovaldi is getting more than 12 million and more than Clevinger
Eovaldi would be best served to take a 1-year deal to prove himself after he battled injuries this year and also had a lower velocity.
I wouldn’t go higher than $12m, as there are other options out there are very comparable to Eovaldi. Kluber, Eflin, Cueto, Heaney, Perez, Syndergaard, Taillon, Stripling. Some are less risky, but not as high of a ceiling, others are older and more consistent. Regardless, I think adding 2-3 veteran starters to the rotation is important for the Cubs to compete for the short-term without having to sacrifice the future.
Bruh, Contreras would NEVER accept the QO!
Love the idea
Id def take Nimmo out of there
No way Cubs sign a CF long term with PCA and Davis in the Wings
Take out Nimmo and put in Kiermeier and I can work with that
Also read Jays are thinking about putting Top C Prospect Moreno at 3B or OF
Wonder if that would make Chapman available?
My guess is that Nimmo would move to LF after Happ is gone, assuming he doesn’t get extended.
Yes – Nimmo is an average CFer at best, but probably improves in Wrigley. Could easily move to LF when Happ reaches free agency if PCA is ready. The fact is, the Cubs need a leadoff guy and someone that is great at creating traffic. The Cubs were a different team when they had Fowler and Zobrist getting on base, and Nimmo has a career OBP of .385. PCA might turn out to be a decent hitter, but as of now his best tool is his defense.
Let these youngsters force the Cubs to bring them up instead of forcing youngsters into roles they aren’t ready for.
Who “improves in Wrigley” with their brick wall, unpredictable wind patterns and abundance of high sun afternoon games?
I’m assuming you will say Fowler but Fowler was more about defensive positioning and he also played in Coors which is another very difficult field to manage and In Houston in the days of the hill.
I meant to say we had kicked around nine years and $270MM for Correa. We haven’t settled on anything, but 7/270 is not what we were discussing.
“Why spend a ton of money when you can have cheese-whiz on crackers? Ummm… cheese-whiz”.
-The average Cubs fan
Or chisox, you could spend an enormous amount of money and lock up Dallas Keuchel, Yasmani Grandal and Yoan Moncada lol.
Remember when the Cubs were favorites to win the division and finished under .500? Me neither… but it’s okay… Hahn and Williams robbed Epstein and hoyer in the Quintana trade and showed the Cubs how it’s done when they signed so many young players to “team friendly” extensions….
Unfortunately for Epstein, it’s difficult to wipe the tears from his eyes with all his World Series rings getting in the way
I wouldn’t mind seeing Ian Happ in a Rays uniform. Maybe they can work out a trade.
Tim, is there a schedule for these team specific chats?
They will be announced within the Offseason Outlook posts, and the chat-specific post will go up in advance.
“Just go for it now”…Yeah that sounds great, until you look at the roster. If you could sign free agents to short deals, that’d make more sense because you wouldn’t be stuck with them after the, “go for it now” plan inevitably fails.
I’ve met Shane Victorino at a target in Las Vegas. He was shopping witb his family. So I asked him politely if be was Shane Victorino. He cracked a smile shook my hand and I left. I almost met Sugar Shane Mosley while working at target. The only other person I saw but didn’t meet was Penn of Penn and Teller. Also in Las Vegas.
I missed the chat probably would’ve share that in there.
I just don’t want Joe to be stingy with his money
he’s lending to Tom and Jed. He crappted out 3 of the last 4 off-seasons. He might have a vice grip on jeds manhood if he spends over budget.