When the Pirates inked veteran starter Jose Quintana to a one-year, $2MM deal last November, it generated little fanfare. After a couple of rough seasons, Quintana was no longer viewed as a reliable starting option and expectations on the 33-year-old were minimal. However, the Pirates’ modest bet on Quintana paid off handsomely, as the southpaw will go down as one of the better free agent signings of the 2021-22 offseason.
Quintana turned in 165 2/3 innings of 2.93 ERA ball across 32 starts, 20 of those came with the Pirates before he was traded to the division rival Cardinals at the trade deadline. Only 16 pitchers had a better fWAR than Quintana’s 4.0 total, and Quintana will certainly get some votes as NL Comeback Player of the Year.
Quintana has been a workhorse for much of his career, beginning with four straight seasons of 200+ innings with the White Sox from 2013-16. Much more than just an innings-eater, Quintana posted a 3.35 ERA over that four-season stretch, highlighted by a 2016 season that saw him make the All-Star team and finish tenth in AL Cy Young Award voting. The White Sox weren’t in contention during this period, and with a rebuild in progress, Quintana became one of the most sought-after arms on the market. The Sox held onto the left-hander until July 2017, before dealing Quintana to the crosstown Cubs for four prospects — including Dylan Cease and Eloy Jimenez.
It’s a trade that still generates some hard feelings in Wrigleyville, as Jimenez and Cease have blossomed into stars for the White Sox and Quintana’s production took a step back as a Cub. He posted a 4.24 ERA over his 439 2/3 innings with the Cubs from 2017-20, and thumb surgery and a lat injury limited him to just 10 innings in the pandemic-shortened 2020 season, marking the first significant injury absences of Quintana’s career.
Hitting free agency in the 2020-21 offseason, the Angels signed Quintana to a one-year, $8MM deal, hoping that he could bounce back and help solidify the rotation. Unfortunately, Quintana pitched his way out of their rotation altogether with an unsightly 8.23 ERA in ten starts. He fared slightly better in their bullpen, but the Angels cut ties with the lefty in August 2021, and Quintana didn’t have much success in five relief appearances with the Giants after San Francisco claimed him off waivers.
So, where did it go wrong? For one, the 2021 version of Quintana was a statistical outlier from the rest of his career, as both his strikeout rate (28.6%) and walk rate (11.8%) were far above his career averages. Chasing the extra missed bats seemed to make Quintana a bit more of a predictable pitcher, especially since he also cut back on the use of his slider and started throwing a (mostly ineffective) changeup more often. As a result, batters were teeing off on Quintana’s offering, resulting in a career-worst home run rate.
To be fair, Quintana was also hampered by some bad luck in 2021, as his 3.94 SIERA took a far more favorable view of his performance than his 6.43 ERA. While Quintana didn’t help himself by allowing more homers and a ton of hard contact, he also didn’t get much assistance from the Angels’ mediocre defense, as evidenced by his huge .378 BABIP. (Angels pitchers had a collective .305 BABIP in 2021, the third-highest total in all of baseball.)
With a better Pirates defense behind him, Quintana got back on track this season. Quintana stuck with more or less the same mix of pitchers, though he has cut back on his fastball usage and leaned more heavily on his off-speed stuff. The lower fastball usage turned Quintana’s four-seamer into one of the most effective pitches thrown by any hurler in 2022, with a -17 Run Value according to Statcast.
Quintana’s strikeout (20.2%) and walk (6.9%) rates also returned to around his career norms, and his problems with the long ball almost entirely disappeared — his 5.3% homer rate was the lowest of his career, and his eight total home runs allowed were the lowest of any qualified pitcher in baseball. After finishing in only the sixth percentile of all pitchers in hard-contact percentage in 2021, Quintana zoomed back above average in 2022, as his 35.8% mark put him in the 68th percentile.
This production led to plenty of interest at the trade deadline, and St. Louis ended up landing both Quintana and reliever Chris Stratton in exchange for right-hander Johan Oviedo and minor league third baseman Malcom Nunez. It was a nice return for the Pirates for a rental player, and the Cardinals were surely satisfied with their end of the deal. Quintana posted a 2.01 ERA over his 62 2/3 innings after the trade, helping the Cards capture the NL Central. The southpaw then added 5 1/3 shutout innings in Game 1 of the Wild Card Series, though a ninth-inning bullpen meltdown cost St. Louis the victory.
Given this success, Quintana looks like a solid bet to receive a multi-year contract in free agency this winter, though plenty of factors will weigh into the size of that deal. He turns 34 in January, and teams won’t forget about his 2020-21 struggles just because he turned things around this year. As MLBTR’s Anthony Franco noted in his preview of the Cardinals’ offseason, Quintana is an option to return to St. Louis, but the Cardinals may opt to pursue cheaper pitching options in favor of a bigger splash elsewhere on the roster. Still, Quintana’s return to form makes him an attractive target for any number of teams who need quality and durability in the rotation.
Risky
When the SF Giants cut Quintana, it seemed short-sighted. His small sample (5 games) there was not all disastrous despite the final numbers. He actually looked quite capable, even formidable, for 3 of those outings. And given their situatiion at the time, it would have made sense to give him a longer run. Which is why I was not surprised by his effectiveness since.
He’s probably not the dominant pitcher of years ago, but he’s savvy and I imagine would do quite well as a #4 or #5 going forward. I wish him well.
Whomever signs him they better have a capable defense behind him along with a game calling catcher.
Jose Q. can be a solid addition to the Dodgers, Padres and Astros for a third or fourth starter but if he signs with a weak defensive team then he will not be as good as he was this year.
Re: Capable defense behind him.
Sounds like he should stay in St. Louis or sign with LA Dodgers.
Although the Cardinals have a questionable catcher situation going into next year.
2 years 25 million STL
That would be a cheap get for sure. Half the teams in baseball would love to make that deal.
I think that $$ is rich given his history but I hope the Cardinals bring back for an encore; at worst he’ll be an excellent swingman. See my other comment re contract.
If I were his agent I’d suggest he park it right there in St Louis. That’s if JQ is more about having a shot at a WS appearance than going to the highest bidder. Not a Cards fan, but geez, they’re in contention often. Stay.
They haven’t been close to a WS contender in a few years and the way things are going, it’s going to be a few more. But if he loves getting bounced in the first round because they make the playoffs by winning the weakest division in baseball, St. Louis will be happy to over pay him until he desires to retire.
@guest678; let me guess, Cards fan, err fanatic? Hard for me to relate. I’m a long suffering Os fan. We haven’t been consistently relevant since the early 80s.
3 100 win teams in the Nal lose before the NLCS and you think Cards have no chance?
The O’s were a better team this year then the Cardinals and would have easily one the NL Central.
That may be. They were still the worst of the 12 teams in the playoffs and got bounced in the first round which was very easy to see coming. Blind Cardinals fans and 30,000 foot followers are in for a rude awakening next year when they don’t get to rack up 40+ wins against the NL Central.
Ahhh. the “balanced” schedule. Hmmm. You know what, I am kind of curious to see what happens.
As far as the O’s were better than the Cards, how would you determine that? Not much commonality in opponents. So maybe just do a generic % comparison of their records against winning teams?
O’s had a .563 winning pct (9-7) against the NL central including going 2-1 against the cardinals. The Cardinals had a .375 winning pct (6-10) against the AL East. The AL east had 4 teams finish above .500 while the NL central had only 2. It really it’s just my opinion having watched almost every cardinal game and a hand full or so Oriole’s Games.
Baltimore is number won in edumacation it would seem
What a dumb comment… “Not close to a WS contender” yet they make the post season every year. You a Pirates fan? Cubs fan? Reds fan? Talk about never a WS contender. Why are you here?
That’s clearly all speculation? The Orioles would have won the AL central too? All your argument does is bring about wanting a salary floor at like say 180 million and a salary cap at say 250 million? With increasing penalties every 10 million there after? That ought to fix the competitive issue your bring up….
All good @guest678. Love your passion!
Here’s where I am with the Cards … a tradition of winning. I do not take that lightly. I started following the O’s in 1965. Man, did I get spoiled. A competitive winning franchise through the early 80s. The common denominator between these 2 franchises. STABILITY at the top. We had Hoffberger the beer guy as owner for a majority of that time and since the mid 90s the Cards have Dewitt.
When ownership falls apart/changes hands; the direction of the club seems to follow the level of egotism in said owner. Don’t know much about Dewitt, but I do know the Os players back in the day raved about Hoffberger. John Angelos, who took over from his dad in 2018, Peter, is the closest comparable I’ve seen to Hoffberger’s humble hands off ownership style. Fingers crossed.
I remember the late 80’s-early 90’s when the bush family purposely put out losing teams to try and sell the club. Think of that these days, trying to lower a clubs value to sell it. The only problem with DeWitt is he lives in Cincinnati and is more tied to that city than where is hall club plays. He’s proven in the past with Jockety and LaRussa to spend near the top. Maybe it was the euphoria of newly purchasing a team. The team has been trending downhill ever since LaRussa retired and Mozalak started making all of the personal and contract decisions. The team has declined more and more each year as the LaRussa regime players have cycled out. Mozalak has a complete 180 approach to roster creation choosing to try and hold on to almost every prospect instead of trading them out for high end younger talent nearing free agency like LaRussa. You had to be a sure lock border line hall of famer to play for the cardinals as a rookie in LaRussa’s tenure. Contrasted to Mozalak who claims every prospect as untouchable and only trades prospects for players who are good but entering the late stages of their careers.
I’m not arguing that at all. As a matter of fact I don’t agree with a floor because all it will do is raise ticket and concession prices and increase the salaries of the average players to be paid like the superstars they are not. There are plenty of good teams operating well below your $180mm suggested floor. BAL ~$65mm, CLE ~$82mm, TB ~$104mm, SEA ~$129mm. HOU is just above that floor. I believe the pirates will join that group in the next year or too. Those clubs have figured out how to do it by successfully scouting the drafts and the minor league clubs and the being able to develop those players into major league success.
Forcing bad teams to spend more on the players they already have isn’t going to do anything to increase their attendance either. A floor is just a rising tide that wouldn’t have have any change other than increasing the players salaries.
@guest678: Thanks for the look see in to recent history of the Cards model. I can see your concerns. Stay strong! Cheers. Oh, didn’t know DeWitt was an outer towner. Hmm.
I am Phillies fan and from what I seen is you need to hit to win. Where is that coming from?
Not the current roster and not from any help from the minors unless they want to give Walker and Gomez a run and Burleson a legit chance
@guest678 you must not know much about the busch family, in the 80’s when augie owned the team they made 3 ws and won 1 (the other 2 are debatable 85 bad call against kc and 87 against the twins that later came out that maintenance was messing with the hvac system to give them an edge) but when old man busch gave his son the team, jr didn’t care about bb but profit and used the cards to sell more beer and eventually sold the team to the dewitt’s. when it comes to playoffs it’s a crapshoot because by your logic the nlcs should be alt/nym and lad not phil and sd. as much as i hate to say it but my birds lost to a good team and took advantage of there opportunities and we did not, imo i feel that the nl was the most balanced in a long time and you could make a case for all of them to be in the ws/winners
I know more about the Busch family than I care too. I surely won’t be voting for Trudy. The Mets were never in the WS conversation IMO. And the Phillies aren’t a shock to going to the WS. Their line up can score with anyone and Wheeler/Nola and go toe to toe with anyone’a top 2.I thought PHI , LAD, and ATL all had close equal chances to make the WS.
You’re a World Series contender just by getting into the playoffs, which the Cardinals have done for 4 straight years and will likely continue to do so pretty often going forward. A 93-win team is also a better than average playoff team these days.
Are you serious?! The O’s were nowhere near as good as the Cardinals this year, and weak division or not, the Cardinals were still a better team than the Guardians, Padres, and Phillies at the very least. They just happened to lose two straight games to the underdog Phillies, who don’t forget also beat the 101-win Braves.
So your arguments for Oriole superiority are extremely small sample sizes and a difference in division strength that isn’t even close to making up for the 10 game difference in their actual records? Get real!
The Busch family wasn’t purposely putting out losing Cardinal teams during that time. The Cardinals still had winning records in 1989 and 1991-93, and they still signed and traded for some decent or better players during that time like Lee Smith, Pedro Guerrero, Felix Jose, Bob Tewksbury, Mark Whitten, Greg Jeffries, and resigning Ozzie Smith. 1990 was a last place disaster year, but they were predicted to be a contender before that season. Only in that last year of 1995 was there a real lack of effort put into the roster.
The Cardinals have overall been just as good under Mozeliak as they were under Jocketty. They won the 2011 World Series, the NL Pennant in 2011 and 2013, numerous other playoff berths including winning 100 games in 2015, made the playoffs for 4 straight years, and haven’t had a losing record since 2007. They also advanced past the first round of the playoffs in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2019, while only failing to do so in 2009, 2015, 2020, 2021, and 2022, a perfectly average rate. It’s just a coincidence that 3 of those times were the past 3 years, which is still better than not making the playoffs at all.
Mozeliak may be more likely to hold onto top prospects, but those have been wise decisions more often than not, and he’s traded away a lot of second tier and lower prospects for win now moves, including some former first and supplementary round picks. He’s also made quite a few big signings and trades when it makes sense to do so, such as for Goldschmidt and Arenado.
Also, La Russa’s aversion to rookies is considered one of his few faults.
Yeah, that’s a pretty bad floor offer, but a floor of $80-$100M would make a good amount of sense.
It may raise some ballpark prices but only for the teams who would be forced to spend more to meet that floor. It’s not like those teams draw well in the first place, while those fans that do still come at those prices get the exchange benefit of watching a relatively better team than they would otherwise.
They wouldn’t be spending more on the players they already have. They’d be spending more on adding stopgap free agents to their rosters, while also giving some of their prospects more needed development time in AAA.
Meanwhile, the only players getting increased salaries would be the non-star free agents who people have been complaining for years are getting shafted in free agency by cost cutting youth movements.
Then you’re either psychic or vastly overestimated the Phillies, as the Dodgers, Braves, and Mets all had significantly better teams, and even the Cardinals were the favorites in their matchup.
@landric my knowledge of the cards before 96 is very limited and is mostly on what my dad told me about the ( i was born in 86 btw) but from what i remember from 93 to 95 we sucked then the dewitt’s took over made the nlcs in 96 had a few down years until 00.
I went back and looked up the odds for both games of the cards/Phils series. The cardinals were never favored to win. The first game both teams were -110 on the money line, so a pickem game. Game two the Phillies were favored, they were -120 on the money line while the cardinals were +100
When Craig Jerfferies and a one legged old Gary Gilleggos were your top marketed players, the team has issues. Busch stopped spending around 89 to start lowering the franchise payroll obligations down and devalue the franchise so they sell it. It was a very tough time in St. Louis Dewitt bought the team and then brought in LaRussa and McGwire to start to turn things around.
They had a record of 87-75 in 1993. Yes, they were pretty bad in ’94-’95 (but sill not a last place team), but it was only really in ’95 where you could say they stopped trying.
Besides the 2019 team Mozalak has not been successful at all. Let’s get one thing straight. Mozalak didn’t start making any decisions until 2012 after LaRussa left. LaRussa called every shot until he left. Tell me which of MozalakS prospects have panned out? Who has had their jerseys flying off the shelves? Who do we absolutely have to try to resign to keep them around?Who will we remember in admiration five years from now? Go ahead, I’ll wait. Carlos Martinez was probably the closet one.
Jeffries and Gaetti were by no means the top marketed players in the early 90’s (and Gaetti didn’t join the team until ’96, anyway). They had guys like Ozzie Smith, Lee Smith, Ray Lankford, Bob Tewksbury, Tom Pagnozzi, Todd Zeile, Mark Whiten, and Donovan Osborne, just not enough talent to make the playoffs back then. Only in ’95 and ’94 to a lesser degree did they really stop spending.
Your understanding of finance is questionable. Implementing a salary floor will not correlate to teams putting more competitive teams on the field. There are numerous ways a team could go about meeting the floor. Yes, one way is to do it all in one transaction and sign a superstar. Or sign a couple players just below the super star tier. It most likely they would do it by spending a million or two more on players they would have otherwise signed and spend a million or to more on arb players so the extra money is spread with small increases over a lot of players. Keeping their tradable value still low. The highest contract offered doesn’t always win. If that were the case, the cardinals would be able to sign the superstars. They can throw money at players just like big dawgs, no shortage of that asset in Saint Louis. but many other factors play a role. The market size for additional income opportunities, the continental location of the city, the state income tax laws, the ownership/front office/manager, the opportunity to win, the things other players say about the org, etc…outside of white guys in the last third of their career the cardinals have a hard time signing free agents, especially if they aren’t already playing for the cardinals. If you want to increase parody through the league and better distribute the games elite, they would have to implement some sort of salary cap/max contract rules like the NBA does. But that will never happen.
Ray Lankford yes. Lee Smith was good, but on the back side of his career. Whiten was with the team for two years and sucked for the second one. Page and Zee were nothing special. Osborne was a back end rotation guy. And Ozzie Smith, while amazing was a glove guy and his best days were behind him. I remember going to a lot of games with half crowds during that time period. Nothing like you see in todays times at cinci and Pittsburgh. But in the 15-20k range.
The cardinals were also only slightly more favored to win the World Series going into the season. Cardinals at +2800 and the Phillies at +3000. That was 12th and 13th best odds respectively.
No manager has more decision making power over roster construction than the general manager.
Even if La Russa did have that much power, you’re still ignoring the 2013 NL Pennant, a 100-win team in 2015, two trips to the NLCS in 2012 and 2014, and the most recent playoff appearances despite the first round exits.
As for prospects who have panned out, there is Matt Carpenter, Schumaker, Lynn, Freese, Jay, Wong, Grichuk, Bader, Hudson, as you said C-Mart, etc., as well as some where the jury is still out like O’Neill, Flaherty, and Hicks. Just because there are (probably) no future Hall of Famers among them doesn’t make the list any less impressive and better than the good majority of franchises over this time period. There’s a reason that it’s popular to accuse the Cardinals of using devil magic
Lee Smith was still in his prime and had some of his best years in St. Louis!. Osborne was mid-rotation, not back. Whiten still had a great first year and represents what they were willing to do in free agency. Ozzie still had some good years in the early 90s, and the Cardinals still gave him a huge contract for the time. Pagnozzi won 4 Gold Gloves as the catcher. Zeile was still an average player who helped them to those winning records from ’91-’93
Like I said, it wasn’t enough talent to actually make the playoffs, but they were actually trying to compete for a while.
So what? We’re talking about how the teams finished the regular season, not how they started it.
Signing a couple superstars still fulfills the purpose of improving the team by spending more. The mid to high market teams that then miss out on those guys will then have to raise the bidding on the mid-tier free agents instead.
Yes, spending a million or two more on those low to mid tier stopgap free agents they would’ve otherwise signed is one thing we really want them to do with the extra money! Thank you! They’ll just also have to sign a couple or a few more of those guys each offseason, as well.. Yeah, it would decrease their trade value somewhat, but that’s a sacrifice worth making. In exchange, the bad teams will each have a few more of these trade chips available each trade deadline.
Purposely raising the bar more than necessary on arbitration salaries would be very tricky to pull off and subject to harsh criticism from the mid-market teams that spend well above the floor but still need to keep their own arbitration salaries as low as possible.
The rest of this spiel has nothing to do with anything either for against the implementation of a salary floor.
How they finished? Replace the Girardi games with how the played afterwards and they have a better record then the cardinals this year.
LaRussa absolutely had that much power. He flexed it by getting McGwore and kept it through his tenure. Lynn, Jay, Schmaker, Freese and Carpenter all came up under LaRussa. And Freese? Really besides a hot post season Freese was garbage. Grichuk had one good year and a league average year. Wong a slightly below league average player. Bader, easily forgotten. O’Neill can’t stay healthy or consistent. What exactly has Hudson done? He is a non tender candidate this year. Let me fill you in on the rest, I’ve seen this rinse and repeat enough. Hicks is a reliever. Whoop-de-doo, relievers are on again off again. Every other year. Flaherty turns out to be a beast, it won’t be with the cardinals. If he isn’t traded this off season, he starts less than 15 games next year. He will find ways to stay “injured” until he gets out of town. And Carlson is an average to slightly below league average player. Nothing special, but nothing that gives confidence in tight situations. Which is what the cardinals produce. Unremarkable, easily replaceable leaguenaverage players no one will remember except they came close to the expectation’s they were touted as prospects. That’s your Cardinal magic players that hover around the average line that can easily be replaced by next man up. You can keep naming players, but you won’t get to one that is a difference maker. You can keep naming players, but you won’t come up with one that other teams had to game plan around, no one that you wanted up with the game in the line. No one you wanted starting in a critical game. No one who’s apparel everyone had to have. What’s sad is all the player you named will still get into the Cardinals hall of fame, because that thing is a joke. But that’s a conversation for another day.
Your missing the concept. The top tier teams won’t sign with the low payroll teams. No one wants to play in Pittsburgh, Saint Louis, Milwaukee, Cleveland, etc.. when they have LA, BoS , NY(Y/M) San Fran and other huge market cities pursuing them. So in order for those teams to meet the salary floor they will have to add money to the players they would have otherwise signed contracts to for whatever reason.
@guest678 please stop spewing your word salad, i’m unhappy with mo just like most cards fan, but give it a rest bro i’m frustrated with the early exits, but at the same time you have to tip your cap to the “lesser” team because the cards have won it all being that “lesser team”
Are you saying I should be happy with the cardinals being a lesser team because a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while? I don’t think the cardinals have been beaten by lesser teams, I think the cardinals were the lesser teams. And it shouldn’t have surprised anyone they lost. They team is not good, but gets boosted by 40+ wins from their terrible division. But it don’t matter, when they finish at or just under .500 next year but still win the division all will still be good because they made the playoffs.
As a Cardinals fan, the Orioles have an extremely bright future ahead of them. I was hoping they would’ve been one of the wild card winners this year. Would’ve been fun to watch them in the postseason. When they played in St.Louis, I was very impressed with them and their closer(Sorry I forgot his name) is nasty, especially with the hard breaking slider he throws.
Hard to believe the last time the Cardinals finished in last place was 32 years ago. I don’t care what sport you play that is a very impressive feat.
Though I was not a big Gaetti fan, he was good for the Cardinals the 2 1/2 years he played for them. He is from the same town where I was born and raised in Southern Illinois.
Quintana was great for the Cardinals in ’22. I’d feel alot more comfortable with a 1 year 6-9 million incintive laden deal? Depends on his market as well? Cardinals have been reluctant to offer muti year deals on bounce back campaigns, Luis Garcia is a good recent example although a bullpen arm he had issues like Quintana in recent past with control? Adam Wainwright resigning or not also factors into this and how much the Cardinals are ultimately willing to pay for Quintana services
Yeah, if the Cardinals resign Wainwright, then the rotation is already set with Mikolas, Montgomery, Wainwright, Matz, and Flaherty with Hudson, Woodford, Thompson, Liberatore, Ver Hagen, and (if absolutely necessary) Pallante as plenty of depth behind them.
If Wainwright retires, then I think the Cardinals will sign a mid tier starter like Quintana to replace him and provide some veteran innings will the health questions some of their starters have.
This is how bad the Angels are.. he goes to the Pirates and becomes a #2/#3 pitcher…
The Angels are flat out awesome at creating “statistical outliers”. No one better.
As an Angels fan it feels like a broken record with any player that has a bounceback after leaving the Angels. While the Angels sure have their share of bad luck I think even the most die hard fans have to admit the franchise has to take its share of blame too
2021 saw the Angels field the worst defensive SS in baseball in Jose Iglesias and injuries to Rendon and Trout that hurt them.
The problem with the Angels is that they need a good pitching coach and need to stop signing position players past their prime
I actually think matt wise did a good job this year with the young pitchers showing promise and development. I think he has earned the chance to continue in 2023
But I do agree about the past their prime players.
The Angels had one of the best pitching staffs in the AL this year.
The Angels also have their share of bad luck with players that quickly decline or have injury problems after signing with them such as Pujols, Hamilton, Simmons, Upton, Rendon, Trout’s record-breaking extension, etc.
Chris Stratton is another ex-Angel mentioned in the article who was disastrous until the Angels cut him and became a serviceable reliever for the Pirates. Angels desperately need a better coaching staff.
orange2001;
Their pitching coaches did a very nice job this year. Arguably brought along 3 starters along with a number of bullpen guys.
Pitching for Pit is 1) a completely stress-free situation because they have no expectations and 2) its the worst division in baseball playing half their games within the division. Whit the changes in the schedule it wont be so easy in 23.
Stratton wasn’t very good this year, though. He was even left off the playoff roster. The Pirates actually got the better reliever in Oviedo in the deal to help balance out the trade better.
I would not count out the Pirates for a return. It might look like he priced himself out of their range, but they really liked his clubhouse presence as well as his mound work, and Quintana seemed to genuinely reciprocate liking Pittsburgh. The Bucs are going to have to fork over some two-year veteran deals sooner or later; why not now in a guy they’re already comfortable with? They won’t get into a bidding war for Quintana, but if other teams are wary of Quintana’s numbers going forward, don’t be shocked if the Pirates swoop in and “Pirate” him away.
I would be fine with this. Even if he puts up an ERA around 4, he will still have value as a dependable arm in the rotation. I’d also bring back the catcher Perez who got injured on a one year deal. Team has to spend money at some point and start to improve. Also they need a 1B/DH in the worst way. Always a problem for them aside from a good year or two of Josh Bell.
As long as they don’t bring in a VanMeter, @Monkey’sUncle, hey that’s fine
He’s still better than Wilson and Thompson as starters
Sorry. Pittsburg is not “paying” anyone. The will continue to sign faltering mlb players and couple with their farm system players. Anyone that is a baseball fan can see the ownership is content with the revenue sharing plan. Why pay any real money for a free agent. Take the money from the league and try to stay ahead of the Reds so it looks honest.
The Pirates will not sign Quintana for 2023. He priced himself out of the Nutting family business wage scale of minimum wage for one year. I can’t believe people are gullible enough to fall for this con game again. The Pirates keep moving the line back as to when they will be “playoff contenders” and along the way the players like Reynolds will be moved out because Nutting won’t pay them. The prospects/suspects may not be what is being advertised and even if some of them are, how long will it be until they see through the Nutting charade and make it clear they won’t be staying any longer than they have to. That’s how the Nutting family runs all of their businesses. Pay the bare minimum and when their help start to reach their potential and ask for a raise, let them walk away and be replaced with more minimum wage replacements.
Quintana hit a rough stretch in the shortened 2020 that carried over in to his time with the Angels in 2021 but it looks like he has gotten back on track. He’ll have an interesting market as he probably won’t get a big money contract so even the mid-market teams can be in on him
He didn’t exactly light Wrigleyville on fire.
The Cubs light money on fire
I would love to see Quintanna back in the Cards rotation next year. He definitely looked like his early years and pitched very effectively. I don’t see the team offering a multi year deal however. Especially if Wainwright returns.
This will be a typical Cardinals signing. He’s and old veteran believe they can continually give IV’s from the fountain of youth. He pitched well for them so they will believe he is going to be a cy young contender next year. They will sign him for a multi year deal and he will either be injured or I. Effective for the duration of it. He would be the one or two in St. Louis, he needs but he either needs to go to be a top end guy on a very bad team or where he can be a back end guy on a very good team.
Man I totally wanted the Phillies to sign Quintanna as a reliable 4th type as Gibson was well Gibson and Suarez hadn’t been fully stretched out.
Dombrowski more often than not makes good decisions……? So I’ll tow the line….
Glad Quintanna has rebounded….
Quintana was terrific for the Cardinals who clearly understood how to utilize his pitches. I hope both parties realize a 1yr deal at 8.5mil w/ a club option for 2024 is a fair deal.
That wouldn’t be a bad deal. But they will probably sign him to 3/40 and call it an off-season. Then have the local radio sell us that it was a total steal.
He’ll do better than that.
We’ll see for sure, I don’t think his past performance guarantees that kind of deal over that term. He seems more like “the new Adam Wainwright.”
He was good.
Seems like one of those situations where the question will be “is he worth a $25M AAV or is he gonna be a DFA candidate?” and you won’t know which you’re gonna get until he pitches.
I think the appropriate move is a one year deal with an option and a buyout that all add up to his true potential value when he’s in the zone and a base salary that accounts for his value when he’s not in the zone.
1 year/$8M w/ a $4.5M buyout on a $22.5M option and escalators for innings pitched that can take his in season guarantee to $10M, his buyout to $6M, his option to $25M and the potential for it to be triggered via vesting.
So a minimum value of 1 year/$12.5M and max value of up to 2 years/$35M
And an off chance of the option not vesting and not getting picked up but Quintana reaching all the incentives and walking away with a 1 year/$16M pay day.
Amazing how these guys “Find Themselves” the year they’re headed into free agency.
He was a free agent at the end of the 2020 and 2021 seasons too and didn’t “find himself” either year.
Yeah, there’s no data to support that players can suddenly turn it on in a contract year. The ones that do like Judge stick out in the mind, but there are just as many that perform at their usual level or worse at that time.
Calling Jimenez a star??? Cease, yes, but Jimenez has yet to produce a healthy season.
Yeah, I never minded trading Eloy for Q. He was somewhat blocked on the Cubs. Adding in Cease was a tough price to pay as he was the Cubs top pitching prospect when they had trouble developing pitching.
Going to be popular amongst mid market teams.
Notice how when a player leaves the Pirates, their era is halved.
The Cardinals should back the truck up and give him $50m for 3 years.
He could be the lefty in the rotation the Mets were missing all season. Not elite. But a solid #4 starter.
I’d definitely take him back on the Pirates, definitely one of the bright spots on the team this past year.
Quintana does not typically put up a lot of quality starts, usually under 50%. You have to assume Waino will be back for his last season. Waino, Mikolas, Flaherty, Montgomery, Hudson, Matz, Liberatore might get some action, Pallante has done decent. I realize that some of these options are big question marks, but so is Quintana historically.
I wouldn’t necessarily mind seeing him come back, since it seems we can never have enough pitching. I just think his AAV will be higher than what the cards would be willing to offer. I would hope if he comes back, the contract is beefed up by a lot of incentives.
Quintana is perfect for the Orioles…..
A LH veteran starter to balance a RH heavy starting staff. Takes over from Lyles as the veteran presence. Pitching in front of a very good defense – and if the opposition loads up on RH bats against him in Camden Yards they’re pulling the ball into a vast LF with the wall nearly 400 feet from home plate. The team has a great bullpen, if he can go 5-6 innings in most starts that would be fine.
He won’t be terribly expensive, nor will he be around for so many years that as the O’s starting pitchers mature he’ll be blocking anyone. Will be on a contending team working with a great coaching staff.
Don’t discount a reunion with the Giants for JQ. They have tons of money to spend and a good portion of it will be spent on starting pitching. SF has always been a good defensive team, but I’m not expecting Belt, Crawford, Rondon and most of their outfielders to return. Gonna need that proverbial scorecard next year to know who is on the team. JQ would be a good not-over-the-top signing.
The Giants join the Rangers as the 2 most desperate owners / FO’s in MLB.
Agents are targeting them this off-season. Last year they got on Cohen and the Mets. Now a good portion of his veterans want out unless he overpays them.
Pirates receive much criticism, for good reason, but in this case, Oscar Marin deserves credit for helping Quintana rediscover the form he had seemingly lost many seasons ago.