The Dodgers are annually mentioned as possible suitors for the best players available on the open market, and they’re likely to be in the mix for the upcoming offseason’s No. 1 free agent. MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand reports that L.A. could make a run at Aaron Judge, which he suggests could be tied to a willingness to move star right fielder Mookie Betts to second base more regularly to accommodate Judge.
Judge is coming off a historic, likely MVP campaign in 2022 where he set the AL record for home runs and slashed a comical .311/.425/.686 (207 wRC+) after rejecting a seven year, $213.5MM extension offer from the Yankees this spring. The Yankees figure to prioritize retaining Judge this offseason, but if there’s any team that can play in the same financial stratosphere as New York, it’s the Dodgers, who posted a luxury tax payroll just under $290MM in 2022 and will see significant salary come off the books this season thanks to possible impending free agencies of players such as David Price, Trea Turner, Justin Turner (whose contract has a $16MM club option for next season) and Craig Kimbrel.
Per RosterResource, the Dodgers have an estimated luxury tax payroll of around $176MM headed into 2023, though this doesn’t include contracts for their arbitration-eligible players. Still, that should leave them with plenty of space before they even get to the level they hit this year. Looking ahead to 2024 and beyond, the Dodgers have just under $74MM locked up for 2024, a hair above $70MM for 2025, and just over $61MM committed for 2026. This payroll flexibility in the future should give them plenty of room to offer free agents multi-year contracts this offseason.
Judge played quite a bit of center field in 2022, where the Dodgers currently have potential non-tender candidate Cody Bellinger and utilityman Chris Taylor as their primary options. However, Judge is widely not seen as a long-term center fielder and considered a better fit in right field, where he’s spent the majority of his career and rates out as among the best defenders at the position in the sport. The Dodgers, of course, have their own elite right field glove in Betts, a five time Gold Glove award winner at the position.
Betts, however, came up as a second baseman and initially only moved to the outfield to accommodate then-Red Sox second baseman Dustin Pedroia. Betts has continued to play second base sporadically throughout his career following the position change, even logging 46 innings (five starts) at the position in 2022. Both Betts and Dodgers manager Dave Roberts have spoken positively of the possibility of Betts playing more second base in the future, and accommodating a player of Judge’s caliber could be just the reason the Dodgers need to make the switch full time. Feinsand reports that Betts is open to moving to the infield regularly at some point in his career, although it’s not clear whether that’d be conditional on the team signing Judge.
Any pursuit of Judge would surely complicate whatever attempts the Dodgers may make this offseason to retain Trea Turner, another top free agent on the market this offseason. Signing Judge and retaining Turner may be more of a financial commitment than even the Dodgers can stomach, with both likely to seek average annual values well over $30MM on contracts of eight-plus years this offseason. Furthermore, with at least some possibility of Betts moving to the infield more regularly, the Dodgers may be content to simply plug Gavin Lux in at shortstop and use leftover money from a potential Judge signing to focus on other areas, such as fortifying a rotation that will have to retain or replace impending free agents Clayton Kershaw, Andrew Heaney, and Tyler Anderson.
Since we will get Judge AND Trea Turner, where are we sending LUX? And who/what are we getting for him? We doing a big trade with Lux and a few others?
The article said it would be difficult to retain Turner if they signed Judge.
Wouldn’t be hard at all. In fact, I could see them signing Judge AND Arenado.
@seam, I think the Dodgers will sign Judge, T. Turner, Arenado, Verlander, deGrom and Edwin Diaz this offseason. Without a doubt!!
I don’t believe Arenado is going anywhere, The Cardinals will try to re-structure his contract 1st. If that doesn’t workout, then yeah he would opt-out and MAYBE go to LA. Another factor could be just how active and serious the Cardinals are this winter on trying to improve them for 2023. Just my opinion though.
Arenado may just decline the opt-out without needing a restructure. If not, then he’ll probably stay in St. Louis with a restructure as Plan B.
In the very unlikely event that Arenado does opt-out and sign elsewhere, the Cardinals would then be able to afford to make a serious run at Turner.
…because money doesn’t matter in the USA. The Dodgers can spend trillions, and if they run out they can print Dodger bucks with Tommy Lasorda’s picture on it. An all-star at every position is possible when money does not matter. Lol
No worries not goin’ to LA anyway.
I agree he’ll probably stay with the Yanks. 90% sure of it.
Trumbo – I’ll say it again, if Friedman is so darn good then why does he constantly spend far more than every other team in MLB?
Buying the best players year after year doesn’t take intelligence.
The worst part about baseball is the competitive imbalance based on financial ability. Great game, bad system.
Fever, I don’t know friend. I have never uttered a peep about him on here…
As evident by this year’s playoffs – having a $200m+ payroll doesn’t guarantee anything. The Dodgers and Yankees are at home.
Al Conin: So you are saying finances create imbalance, if I understand you correctly? If so, you naturally feel the WS can be bought then, because disparate finances create competitive imbalance. If that’s the case, how do we get the Guardians, the Rays, Astros, Cards, Seattle – all in the playoffs with such disparate payroll amounts? And how are the 4th & 9th most expensive payrolls in the WS?
It doesn’t stand to reason. One’s argument could more justifiably be: If you refuse to spend your CBT-allocation on personnel and choose to tank, you can’t win. The latter is much more proof-positive than the former. And even that’s not a foolproof hypothesis (Orioles/Rays/Seattle).
It DOES pretty much guarantee the chance at the postseason. Sure once the postseason tourney begins it is really all about who is hot. Any baseball team can win a series. Even the worst team in MLB won 55 games in 2022. That means they are fully capable of winning 4.
But the big payroll gives you a much better shot of getting into the postseason. 9 out of the top 12 payrolls in the majors made the playoffs, while the bottom 18 teams in payroll only provided 3 teams. Sure a Cleveland can surprise while a Red Sox or White Sox team can disappoint, but generally high payrolls get in and low payrolls don’t.
Everyone is talking about Philly as an underdog, but they have the 4th highest payroll in the game. They were just underachieving until October. It’s not like they are the A’s or something.
The angels are on line 1 and would like a word
Because it is not exact. The postseason is the epitome of a small sample. BTW, the Astros and Cardinals are both in the top 12 in payroll and therefore are SUPPOSED to be in the playoffs. And you say 4th and 9th highest payroll like those are small or something.
The main difference is that in a couple of years we are not going to be talking about the Dodgers breaking up the team and rebuilding. Do you think we will say the same about Cleveland or Seattle? Even Tampa will eventually get some moves wrong and be on the rebuilding side of things for several years.
The Red Sox had a bad year, but does anyone truly expect them to be bad for the next three years?
That word is mismanagement. As I said, it is not an exact science either way. It’s not a 100% success rate, but 75% is a pretty good indicator that there is an inherent advantage to having a high payroll.
Hiflew nailed my response. Gotta disagree with you Yankee Clipper in part for those reasons.
Go look at records dating back to 2015 and 2010.
Since 2010: Cardinals, Rays, Guardians, Brewers, A’s (11th), Braves all in the top 11. None are big payroll teams.
Since 2015: The Guardians, Cardinals, Rays and Brewers all in the top 10 and typically have lower payrolls – especially 3 of those 4.
So what does that say? Money helps, but intelligence makes a bigger difference. If you can combine the two, you’ll go far (Dodgers, Yankees, Giants). The Cubs have one of the biggest markets and have rebuilt 2x in a decade. The Tigers spent like crazy in the past and haven’t been good for a long time.
I usually would believe this since this is the Dodgers but i think this is just to get SF to spend more. But i don’t think it’ll make Farhan spend more than he wants to.
“The Tigers spent like crazy in the past and haven’t been good for a long time.”
You mean they haven’t been good since they had a large payroll.
RyanD44, it is no argument that there is a causal relationship between payroll level and likelihood to make the playoffs. See Hiflew’s responses above as mine. To what he said, you think the Yankees will ever have a 5-year rebuild? Or the Pirates locking up their infield for years like the Dodgers so they can trade prospects at those positions they no longer need? If Jeter was drafted by the A’s do you think he would have retired there? There’s no argument here. The system is an competitive imbalance.
Al: I respect you on that, and I understand Hiflew’s point too. Both of you have valid points.
But, I think it tends to be an easy oversimplification of what it actually takes to win. Plus, without the converse point (refusing to spend/participate provides a bigger advantage to opposing teams than spending more), I think it is disingenuous.
More competitive imbalance exists because owners refuse to spend than exists because they do, imho.
RyanD44 has some great additional narrative too. Overall, I think it’s a mixture.
The Tigers spent $173m, $172m, $168m, $130m from 2015-2018
They won 74, 86, 64 and 64 games in that time.
Al Conin, but isn’t that because the Dodgers and Yankees have LA and NYC to support them? The Cubs were a trash team this year and last year, let all their stars go and still averaged over 32,000 fans in 2022. Even if the A’s or Rays signed every free agent in this upcoming market and win 100 games each season for the next 3 years, they wouldn’t average 32,000 fans. Would they see attendance go up? Sure, but probably not enough to make more profit – which is the biggest factor here. A big issue for those two teams is their stadiums suck and are difficult to get to, but also just not having the population like LA, NYC and Chicago have.
I own a business, and if you told me “Hey – spend more $, you’ll offer a much better product and more people will love it, but you’re going to make less than you’re making now.” I’d tell you to go kick rocks.
Some of these small market teams are incredibly smart and have made the most of what they can do with lower payrolls while still appeasing their owner. Some have not. I’ll reiterate my point from earlier: most of these owners are billionaires – spending money is not a concern, it’s a question of whether spending money gives them a better return than before. If it did, they would do it – they are smart. If you are suggesting owners should be willing to spend more and lose money, well then you have never been in charge of a budget.
Fever Pitch….Who again is spending? Guggenheim Baseball Management.
RyanD, I certainly respect your views. You from your experience know the business is about revenues – costs, and that billionaires or not it’s not good business to be in the red. The mid and small market clubs just don’t have the revenue amounts from their streams as the large markets. Yes, some of those teams like the Rays have been smart, but out of necessity, and they still are at a competitive disadvantage. What if the Rays could sign Judge? And a $20 mil player? Their payroll would still be less than the Yankees in their division but much more competitive. They won’t bc they can’t afford him. Why can the Yankees and Dodgers but not the Rays? That’s the problem.
Yankee Clipper, I too respect your views. You make good points, but I think it’s an assumption, if not an attitude toward, to conclude some owners refuse to spend. The revenues of the large market teams are so much greater than mid and small market. If there was a salary cap where all owners were equal that’d be different than now where revenues in large part dictate spending levels. Can you compete in other ways? Sure. But financial resources is still the main way.
That’s what 70% of my fans said too than I jumped ship and went to LA and still made about the same dough anyways since Cali is a higher cost of living. My buddy Dansby will be chasing the almighty dollar too as well as Judge. Judge to the Mets/Dodgers/or Giants.
Population/Market Size is the reason they can’t afford big time players while big market teams can.
The only “perfect” solution – which teams would never go for – is if the entire league came together and everyone was working for the success of the game and the league, and from there, the league gave each team X amount to spend to build a winner, and the team with the best strategy would win. This would eliminate any team having significantly more $, the best players would be spread out bc the best players would want the best $ and each team could provide that. It would essentially be 1980’s baseball.
Al: Yes, I think that’s correct. Perhaps I misstated my perspective to a degree. I’m referring specifically to the teams that spend less than the CBT revenue amount awarded to them for competitive balance. It’s over $100MM. Wouldn’t impact their bottom line as it’s designed for that purpose. I think then we can truly evaluate how that spending impacts competition.
If you did get that, and you still disagree, you’re probably in 50% of baseball fans who think that too. Plus, – I could very well be wrong in this.
One of the ways I measure competitive balance is how many teams win and how often. It seems to me that, regardless of spending, we have many different teams that win each year, thus supporting the competitive balance argument.
I think 15 different teams have won the WS since the last Yankees WS, several small-market teams too; yet Yanks are always at or near the top in spending. I appreciate the discussion, Al, and the mutual respect.
What’s bad about that?
Iverbure: Was that to me? And, if so, what’s bad about what? Sorry, hard to tell who is responding to whom sometimes.
@ryan, the A’s stadium is NOT hard to get to. It is a TERRIBLE facility, but its location has nothing to do with its low take from the gate. It’s John Fisher’s (the owner) attitude that keeps that team down.
Yeah, I’m certainly with you on this.
Good points. I especially like how you pointed out the number of different teams which have won the WS. That’s an important point in this discussion.
So a salary cap?
The only team that’s really small market in that group is KC. Maybe throw in St. Louis, but they’re good every year so it’s not as if they’re the Reds or the Pirates.
like – I totally agree. Teams like the Yankees and Dodgers are basically guaranteed a postseason spot every year because of their spending. Only the few poorly run teams, like my Red Sox, could miss the postseason with a Top 10 payroll.
Trumbo – I know my friend, I was just responding to Judge possibly getting signed by the Dodgers. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they pursue Ohtani as well.
hiflew – Exactly! Dombrowski took them to 4 ALCS and 2 WS between 2006-2013.
Ryan – You’re comparing Ausmus to Leyland? Seriously?
BTW – Tigers were 19th in payroll back in 2018, so not sure why you included that year.
That’s an ignorant statement that shows little to no insight.
The reason the Dodgers can spend money is because Friedman is really good with the budget. Yes, the ownership committee is happy to spend over the luxury tax but Friedman constantly bounces over and below the tax threshold, resetting the penalties.
In addition to that, Friedman routinely “wins” trades and drafts extremely well. How many teams draft and develop talent like Lux, Bulher, Urias, Smith, etc. How many gms can trade for Betts and get Burteral (sp) back in return? How many teams can trade for Betts, Trea Turner and Max Scherzer and still have a well regarded farm system?
Point being, Friedman does a great job. As the article stated, they can sign Judge, still have Betts and Freeman under contract and still have over 100 million to spend to stay beneath the luxury tax in 2024.
Now, with that praise said, Friedman hasn’t won a “real” title with the Dodgers. I’m sorry Dodger fans but 2020 doesn’t count. Not for front offices. The 162 game grind culminating in a World Series title is the real prize. Not a 60 game sprint.
paddy – No, Friedman is the one spending. Guggenheim sets the budget and provides the funding.
It’s like if you give your wife a credit card, and you pay the monthly bill. She’s the one spending.
There’s a difference between spending and paying for it.
A fair number of Judge’s 62 homers were low trajectory shots into the RF seats. Ain’t gonna happen in LA, and certainly not happening in SF. Might not get the cheese he’s expecting. His post-season numbers are gonna hurt. JMHO, but I think he gets five years @ $25 million per to stay in NY. Any more money, or any longer contract, would turn out badly.
drascoo – Many trades are made because of financial reasons.
You really don’t think other teams would have and could have traded for Betts if he was under team control for more than one year, or if he wasn’t demanding a huge contract extension?
I suppose you believe money had nothing to do with the Yankees getting Stanton without giving up much.
Look I think Friedman is decent, but he is definitely overhyped and doesn’t impress me by using financial resources to acquire talent.
Betts was NOT seeking an extension. He refused Bostons extension that was fairly close to the one the Dodgers signed him to.
The reason the Dodgers were able to get Betts for a “lesser” package is because they had the financial resources to absorb David Prices contract BUT keep in mind the Dodgers got Betts, ate a larger portion of Prices contract and still remained under the luxury tax. They were able to do that trade because Friedman is smart and a good PBO. I also feel the Dodgers have very open lines of communications and budgets in place. “Budgets” using the term loosely.
Saying “many trades are for financial reasons” is moot… most trades are made for financial reasons. It has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Case in point, the Cubs traded Rizzo to the Yankees for “financial reasons” and everyone else in their fire sale.
You’re just a bitter fan of another team.
Ah, being a Yankees fan, and watching a “fair number” of Judge’s home runs, you obviously haven’t either watched or caught replays of most of his home runs this year…..his exit veto and trajectory made most of those no doubters and got out in a hurry…….also he pulled many more to left, left center and dead center then to right in the Judge’s seats…….he has legitimate power in any stadium in the major leagues….just hope the Yankees open up the checkbook and re-sign him.
Agreed 100%. No lies detected there! Just my opinion, the Cardinals have the capacity to raise payroll and go over the luxury tax one time if they so choose, but they claim they are always in the red, though they draw over 3 million fans every year into Busch Stadium. They also have Ballpark Village where they profit off of that as well, even in the offseason. What they need to do is what the Yankees and Cubs have done and that’s get their own TV Network and broadcast all spring training, regular season and postseason games to bring in more revenue, but unfortunately, doesn’t mean they would spend any of that surplus on top notch players either. If they had their own network, DeWitt and company would STILL find a way to claim they’re in the “poor house.”
I agree about population size and that it does matter, but It helps tremendously that teams like the Yankees, Cubs and Dodgers have their own tv networks, which is why those 3 teams will be in on top notch free agents not only this winter, but probably every winter after, if they choose to. Sure, ticket, memorbillia and concession stand sales help quite a bit, but the biggest revenue stream comes from having your own network where you can broadcast every spring training, regular season and postseason games. That’s exactly what the Cardinals need to do. Just my opinion.
Jesse – having your own network means that A LOT of people have to watch it in order for it to work. Based on metro areas alone – St Louis has just under 3 million people, while Chicago is just under 9.5 million, and obviously people from around the country aren’t accounted for in that, but the large nucleus of your fans will be your nearest and dearest. Obviously NY and LA markets are even larger. Cardinals fans are loyal as hell, but based on pure population alone, they’d be better served to share a network with the Royals and other major sports teams, which they already do.
By the way – Marquee Sports Net for the Cubs has been HORRIBLE. Boog as the main PbP guy is lackluster, the difficulty of getting the network if you aren’t local is difficult. They are only on like 1 or 2 streaming services. The overall product seems way less authentic, and much more commercialized. It’s cool always having Cubs stuff on when you want it, but I’d take Comcast, WGN or FSN coverage back in a heartbeat.
why does he constantly spend far more than every other team in MLB?
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I’m not sure it is that straightforward.
The first thing is that they aren’t buying all high-priced FAs. The FAs are basically just Bauer & Freeman. And then a second tier of semi-FAs like Betts & Kimbrel.
But the more important factor is that a lot of the guys they developed are good. And good players cost real money to retain. They have $82M alone for Bellinger, Turner, Taylor, Kershaw & Muncy. Those are their guys.
For the LAD, it is really all about their farm and development.
Yankee Clipper
and choose to tank, you can’t win.
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Actually, tanking is an important part of the winning cycle for small market teams.
Probably because the Dodgers have the budget to pay for star players? Friedman’s teams in Tampa Bay did very well without coming close to the Dodgers’ resources.
If you are suggesting owners should be willing to spend more and lose money,
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Some fans think that, just because an owner made a $1B in another business, that they should spend that money on the baseball team.
There is actually no discussion to be had. In every single thing we do for the rest of our lives, this will be true. I am not getting that cherry 1995 928.
But that doesn’t mean the weaker teams cannot compete. They just need to be selective. They cannot compete every year.
Why can the Yankees and Dodgers but not the Rays? That’s the problem.
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The underlying problem is that MLB wants to be in 30 cities. They #1 city in the US is NY with 8.8M. Even cutting that in half to account for two teams, that’s still 4.4M, which is 7.5x the size of BA, which is #30. All other things being equal, there is about a 0% chance that BA will have the same cash flow as NY.
giantsphan12
It’s John Fisher’s (the owner) attitude that keeps that team down.
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So your hypothesis is that the A’s use to draw well, but no longer do because of Fisher?
They went to the playoffs 6x in 9 years from 2012-2020, and averaged 1.7M per year. In 1974, they had just won their 3rd WS in a row, and their attendance was way under a million. Not every town is a baseball town.
They were able to do that trade because Friedman is smart and a good PBO.
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The LAD are where they are because they developed Smith, Lux, Bellinger, Urias, Gonsolin, Kershaw, Buehler, and May. And then picked up Muncy, Taylor, Philips, and Turner when no one knew who they were. And then added FAs like Heaney & Anderson when anyone else could’ve signed them. And they only acquired Mookie & Trea because they had more prospects than anyone else.
Even as a RS fanatic, I have to admit that the :LAD are operating at a higher altitude than anyone else. Maybe the Indians and the Astros are close. Atl & StL are good, but not in the same tier.
Farm. Smart money management. No long-term deals on average joes.
The only park that can contain Judge is probably Fenway. He just hits them too hard. Past that, you’re 100% correct. I can give reasons for not signing Judge, but since he hit more HRs on the road than at home, the short porch would not be one of the reasons. Even his career splits are 115/105 which I’d guess is fairly normal.
Joe: You’re correct. I only meant that in comparison to the winning teams within those respective seasons.
My point is: the tanking teams in any given season have more of an effect on the other teams winning, or just as much an effect, as spending. If Pirates, Reds, etc, etc tank, it removes “X” number of teams from contention and gives wins away to those teams as well. So, instead of competing with 29 other teams, they’re competing with 20, and they get 1/3 (or whatever) of their wins from those poor teams.
The middle US teams’ base is broader and much different than east coast teams. The fan bases for ATL, CIN, STL, KCR, MIN, COL and ARI are not limited to their urban areas. I listened to a Twins game all the way through IA and into SD. CIN has an enormous broadcast range. ATL and STL fan bases are measured in regions.
Yankee Clipper — The playoffs and World Series are a crap shoot. The real champions are the teams that win the most games, in each league, over the 162-game season. Take a look at their payrolls.
Based on his last interview it didn’t sound like it
Let’s hope.
You are all right, there is no magic formula to winning the world series. Health has a lot to do with contending teams winning, but most contending teams are built by trading for key players. The final piece to a contending team is a free agent. Teams really don’t know what they have with prospects.
Pete: I agree with you for the most part, but I don’t think it’s a complete crapshoot. The Yankees had no chance against the Astros. They’ve been beat 3 out of 3 meetings with the Astros in the ALCS during the past six seasons. Yes, anything could happen in a given series, but I don’t believe it’s as arbitrary as most make it out to be.
Moreover, I do agree with you about the regular series division winners. But, the tanking teams help those teams become those winners because of:
1) Their lack of competitiveness during head-to head competition, and
2) their record from losing to most teams throughout.
My argument is that tanking helps the Yankees/Dodgers, etc, etc, just as much, if not more, than spending does.
Yes, although the Rays and Guardians have been good teams, neither has won the world series in a long time!
Natxandria: Well, Braves aren’t a large-market, the Nationals won too; but the Rays were in the WS, the Indians were in the WS, Rangers were in the WS – all since the Yankees last appearance.
But if you include that *one win* in 2009 as the Yankees singular appearance, the Rockies, the Marlins, the Rays and others were in the WS since the last time the Yankees won (prior to 2009). That’s a whole lot of smaller markets that have made appearances, some more than once, since the big-market Yankees even went a second time.
You got them in the playoffs because MLB has had to expand the playoff system to include almost half the teams in the league. Some of those teams you mentioned like Houston and St. Louis are solid mid-markets. We could have had several Yankees-Dodgers WS under the old playoff system. We’re making the 162 setup less and less important and creating a crap shoot playoff sprint.
I see zero reason for Seattle to to break up anything. That group is loaded with Japanese capital.
Not exactly. The Tigers didn’t rebuild and cut costs significantly until after they stopped being good despite their large payrolls.
To be fair, though, that was a case where years of spending unwisely and emptying the farm caught up with them after Illitch tried and failed to do everything he could to win a Championship before he died.
For the Rays, it’s more of an issue that they play in the Snowbird State than their bad stadium (which is still another major issue). The Marlins didn’t wind up drawing much better despite getting a new stadium.
How many big free agents have the Dodgers splurged on? Freeman, Bauer, …??
You think Judge, who turned down $210 million and then hit 62 home runs, is going to get 5/125?
Most teams do spend a lot more than just the revenue sharing money they receive. It’s just that there are a lot more expenses than just the Major League payroll involved in running an MLB franchise.
DOCK — Which, personally, I think is a shame. In the old, old days, teams like Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Detroit and other smaller-market teams were consistently competitive, often champions. All fans across the country could feel they had a chance.
vtadave — It’s not all about Free Agents. The Dodgers have splurged on Betts, Treat Turner, Max Scherzer, Kimbrel. Those guys don’t come cheap.
I don’t think any true baseball fan can claim that the Dodgers haven’t made smart moves up and down their roster (Muncy, Taylor, J. Turner), including having a solid farm sysytem. But with the enormous cash they have, that roster would not look the same.
@JoeBrady A’s attendance was better under Walter Hass ownership because he invested heavily in the on-field product. He wanted to win, and did win. You chose 2012-2020 and 1974 in your example, but skipped 1988-1992. Winning by investing in players (and not just collecting prospects) excites fans.
When Haas bought the A’s in 1980 the attendance went up by half a mil the next year and stayed that way (or better) for his entire ownership. From ‘88 to ‘93 the attendance was over 2MM/yr – and was 7th, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the American League for attendance.
They had poor attendance this year because they didn’t even really try. Few discount seats, few concessions, poor entertainment, fielding a AAA team. They can’t blame it all on the stadium – though they really are driving that hard because they want a new one.
You are probably right. 62 with Yankee Stadium as your home park is 35-40 with Dodger Stadium as your home park.
Making the playoffs is forgotten, winning the world series is the goal. If the Astros don’t win the series this year they will be looked at like the old Braves teams, can’t win the big one or like the Buffalo Bills losing 4 times. If the Phillies win, the talk will be about the playoff format, team getting hot, and how the Braves and Mets choked along with the Yankees.
Yet the sport has the most parity in championships of the 4 major American sports leagues…
@RyanD44, in all fairness yes the Tigers payroll was from 2015-2018. However much of that payroll can b attributed to the legacy costs and remnants of their contention years. It is no secret that success ultimately comes with a price as the homegrown players start to reach free agency. Which is part of the issue the Tigers endured. That and the Zimmerman contract which ultimately seems as the nail in the coffin on them being contenders.
Let’s not forget also that the colosseum is a gazillion years old and ownership refuses to spend a cent in renovating it.
Small market, not that Oakland is a small market, doesn’t mean it has to be small revenue. The Cardinals are a “small market” but make a ton in revenue because not only is their park beautiful and modern with a lot of comfort, the surrounding area is beautiful with a lot to do.
The A’s can spend money and renovate their park, and they can sell off/build on a lot of their parking lots…. This is no longer the raiders/athletics, it’s just athletics. Baseball does not need massive parking lots because tailgating isn’t a thing. They need to build up shopping and entertainment around the stadium, update the stadium and fans will come.
Watch, if the Rays get the stadium they want, where the city plans on building the stadium, they will cease to be a bottom dwelling team in terms of attendance…. The stadium plans are beautiful, they intending on building up the surrounding area with luxury apartments and fine dining among other things… that is how you bring in revenue, invest in the stadium, invest in the surrounding areas and give the fans a “face” ie Franco.
The A’s are happy with their revenue sharing money, minuscule payroll and slight profits from suckling the teet of the rest of the league.
My argument is that tanking helps the Yankees/Dodgers, etc,
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Theoretically, for every tanking team, there is a rebuilt team. For every Oakland, Nats, Cincy & PT, there is a BA, CL, and SEA.
We could have had several Yankees-Dodgers WS under the old playoff system.
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The ALDS & ALCS setup has been in place for 27 years. LA lost their first series this year. Unless you want to go back to the days of a single WS, LA would still be out of it.
The cardinals and Braves are not low payroll teams. Trying to act like they are is being untruth
The A’s don’t draw because they have a twenty to thirty year history of trading away anyone that becomes good. San Francisco has no problem with fans and what are they ten minutes apart. If the A’s built a new stadium and had an owner committed to keeping stars they would draw very well.
It’s not so much of yearly earnings for these owners. Non of them need the earnings to live off of. It’s about building team value if the team is ever sold. How much will the Dodgers sell for and how much will the A’s sell for? The Dodgers way will make the owner ten times what the A’s way will make their owner.
And the fact that both teams have a minuscule payroll.
Most of us would add Betts to that list.
it doesn’t matter what Farhan wants to spend. the Gigantes ownership group determines payroll and spending. they are el cheapos…
Pads Fan
“You are probably right. 62 with Yankee Stadium as your home park is 35-40 with Dodger Stadium as your home park.”
The average distance of a Judge HR is 412. He hit more HR’s on the road than at home. Judge’s home runs predominantly go to left and center, not the “short porch” in right. Judge’s homers go out just fine in Dodger Stadium. I like the Padres but you, once again, need a clue.
So which one of the top 3 spending teams is in the WS this season? Mets? Dodgers? Yankees?
So are the biggest spending team, the Mets. So are the Padres who are over the CBT threshold again this season.
JOE — I’m decidedly NOT a Dodgers fan. But we know that the best team in the NL is the Dodgers. We know the second best team in the NL is either the Mets or the Braves. The best team in the AL is the Astros. The Yankees the second best.
Those are the only teams I’d want to see in any kind of “championship” playoff. And even then (call me old fashion) but I rather see the World Series, this year, Dodgers/Astros. Then we have a true World’s Champion.
WARREN — You are one of my favorite all-time pitchers, but I don’t in all conscience say the Giants ownership group are “cheapos.”
Because these short series playoffs undermine the quality of the 162-game season.
Population has much less to do with MLB revenue than size of the TV market. That is called the DMA ranking for number of TV households. Its what TV deals are based on.
Here is a PDF that lists DMA rankings for 2021, oaaa.org/Portals/0/Public%20PDFs/OAAA%202021%20NIE…
Hiflew Seattle is set up pretty good for min of 5 years. Injury can put a fly in that ointment but that is true for any team. Seattle also has a new ownership group that is willing to spend to win. Do I believe they will be a team over the luxury tax each year? No but a couple might be possible.
Pads Fans — Thanks for posting that chart.
I thought the analysis was done that only 3 of Judges homeruns benefited from the short fence in Yankee Stadium. So playing there did not inflate his numbers much at all.
I find it difficult to retain water…how many superstars does LA need?
Don’t worry, they’ll be so many teams in the playoffs in the future that you may see a AAA team in the World Series! Get Manfred out!
Manfred definitely has to go
Pretty soon every team will be in the playoffs. To avoid 100+ winning teams from getting knocked out by a team with 80+ wins that gets hot at the right time they should just put the best record from the NL (Dodgers) against the best record in the AL (Astros). Or, to accommodate teams like the Braves and Mets, they could seed those teams and have a kind of tournament
Then there would be no more whining about 100+ teams getting eliminated so soon.
Always going to be whining about who gets in and who is eliminated since allowing no division winners into playoffs. used to be team doesn’t end the season on top? Go home for the winter, but owner and player greed for more tv exposure (money) ended all that years back and now have teams that should never have a sniff of the post season getting in, it’s worse than some of the old Royals teams way back who would win the AL West by default, barely .500 because the rest of the division was so bad.
Stop complaining about 100w teams getting knocked out, or eliminate all WC teams. It’s an easy fix.
I could see Judge going to the Dodgers. The Dodgers and Astros have been the best teams over the past 7 years. The Dodgers are built for now and for the future. Their farm system is loaded. If you are going to sign with someone long term and compete for the title year in and year out, the Dodgers are the clearly a better choice. If you take Judge out of the lineup, there is not a lot of substance to the Yankees lineup. If Judge is smart, he will be a Dodger.
If you hear an annoying person on a street corner shouting into a megaphone, you don’t blame the megaphone, you blame the speaker. Manfred is a tool but he is just the megaphone. not the speaker, which is the owners.
avenger – MLB did say they want to implement a 14-team postseason. That would mean there would be an opening round played exclusively by Wild Card teams. Because it’s Wild Card teams being added based on best record, there shouldn’t be any greater chance of a losing team in the postseason because of playoff expansion.
But I do think with a balanced schedule we will eventually see division champions with losing records.
there shouldn’t be any greater chance of a losing team in the postseason
===============================
Excellent point. For teams that win their division, they need to play three playoff series. I think it’s been this way since 1995. Atlanta & LA lost because they lost the only series they played, not because there were too many wildcards.
that said, they should take a week off of the schedule, replace early-April games with more playoff games, make the W/C a 5-game series, and make the ALDS a 7-game series. That would reduce the playoff variance a tiny bit.
No chance of a 14 team playoff until this CBA is completed. So earliest is 2027. There will likely be two new teams by then.
Pads Fans— Further destroying baseball.
Why? Dodgers still have the $16MM club option in Trea Turner.
You mean Justin Turner
Lux can play 2B and Betts in CF or LF
They are talking about moving Mookie to 2B not CF or LF
Bellinger and Lux for a pitcher/prospect.
Better off non-tendering Bellinger and trading Lux alone.
Lux will stay, Bellinger will be released. My guess is that the marlins will sign Belli for one year and less than ten million.
Bellinger has negative trade value
Naw. The other team could still release him, so Belli has zero value but not negative value.
Why would any team give up anything for a guy that’s getting cut? He has negative value. He is a terrible hitter without knowing what pitch is coming and glove only players that aren’t SS or catcher aren’t worth a thing.
And…..Hal Steinbrenner is the happiest man on earth hearing this news.
If the LADs get Judge – I’m happy for them & Judge. The current Yankees MO is to be just good enough. It’s a model for sustained playoff contention to generate revenue, that’s it. The thing they miss, and will always miss, is that there will be teams, like the Astros, who will beat them down handily because they are committed to winning it all.
For the Yankees players to buy into the “playoffs are a coin toss” mentality reflects their disillusionment. These playoffs were never a coin toss for the Yankees. They didn’t have a hope or prayer and the Astros proved that. No luck in any dimension would’ve made up the gap between the two. Yankees need to be retooled, beginning with their end-goals, then different manager, and perhaps the GM while we are at it. The Yankees don’t have an identity. They’re in-between on too many things, including organizational direction, and it’s why they’re failing.
Clipper, I am stunned they were out in 4 games. I feel like it is a fluke but I am not a close enough follower of the Yankees.
Clipper, I was pulling for them the entire time. In no way do I think it was some sort of great “mismatch.” That stuff happens in the Show every season. Yanks need to avenge themselves against them next season!
Honestly, TJ, no. The Yankees fail in a couple key areas of roster construction and in how they utilize the existing roster. They all but admitted that GM 1 was a throwaway game by intentionally putting in German and Montas just to see what those to pitchers could do for the series.
Nonetheless, I wasn’t very shocked. I didn’t think the Astros were going to take all four in a row; I thought the Yanks would win one home game. But surprised I am not.
The reality is: the Yankees brass acts like we are still the ‘98 Yankees. To everyone else, we are the new Mets.
Think about it this way: we *started* in 2017 with an excellent young core coupled with tenured talent and went to the ALCS where the Yanks lost to the Astros. 5 seasons later, with all that money, all the key FAs available, the time for the guys in our farm system to develop or trade, and our crowning achievement is: the ALCS and getting beat by the Astros even worse.
Dodgers were somewhat an anomaly but are going to reset money and spend to get better. Yankees have to spend big just to maintain and they’ve made it clear they are not going to spend any more than they absolutely have to regardless of the consequences.
And all of this spending by the Big Three or Four clubs is disheartening for the rest of MLB and the fans. I know the Players and the Owners are against a ceiling and a floor, but those few teams (and Manfred) are milking the fun out of baseball.
More than 3 or 4 teams are equally as capable of spending as much on their payroll. Are the Oakland owners destitute? Cleveland? Tampa Bay? What is their malfunction?
TRUMBO — I often agree with you, but not on this one. None of the MLB owners are “destitute,” but they run businesses, and the some cities (and we all know who they are) have populations and TV revenues that make a huge difference if they want to be profitable.
It’s a miracle (and super-wise management) that keeps teams like Tampa Bay, Oakland (in the awful ballpark) and Cleveland at least competitive. But they aren’t signing the superstars (except when a Jose Ramirez takes a home town discount).
Pete’sView this thinking is totally backward. Every single owner is capable of spending money on their teams. Don’t blame the few good owners who are willing to actually pay up to develop, retain, and add talent. The problem is when cheap owners like the ones in Oakland, Tampa, or KC destroy competitive teams because they don’t feel like paying their core players.
KingKahn — Read my comment above. Sure, “they’re capable,” but do they want to run their franchise (their business) into the ground?
Thats why he said ceiling AND floor
Ahhhhhhhh in case you haven’t heard, Tamps doesn’t exactly have sell outs every day.
Pete, I am definitely not saying they need to compete t¡t for tat with payroll, but I figure if they spend a bit more they may be able to get some of their missing links. Not 22 mil. But what could they do with 75-80 mil a year?
Agree with all you’ve said, Pete’s View.
Get into the futbol/soccer business then. Guess the market is just not there.
**not 200 mil
They wouldn’t run their franchises into the ground at all though. Baseball teams make a ton of money every year, and fans will be more inclined to show up if ownership demonstrates interest in putting winning baseball on the field. You don’t have to pay Steve Cohen numbers, but no organization should be putting out 20 million dollar teams because they don’t want to pay the arbitration numbers for their own stars.
Love this argument:
Let’s say the Yankees spend $240m on their payroll, and organization profits $24m after everything is said and done.
Let’s say the A’s spend $80m on their payroll, and the organization profits $8m after it’s all said and done.
Which business is more successful? Sure – easy to say the Yankees, because they profited 3x as much! But if the A’s spent $240m on their payroll, would they profit $24m like the Yankees? No chance in hell. They don’t have the market.
So, from a business perspective – you think the A’s owner should spend more – take the risk of losing substantial amounts of $ due to a smaller market and lack of cooperation to get a new stadium/location that is more accommodating?
You don’t think these billionaires that are much smarter than you and I haven’t ran the numbers and asked “If we spend $50m more, would that make us more profit or less profit?”
If they could make more by spending more, they would. It is a BUSINESS. So many people think these owners want to lose money and just see their team win – that’s not how they became successful. Not every team has a Steve Cohen as an owner.
Look, I am sure the computer would show that is most matchups the Yankees beat the Astros maybe two games out of six. Clipper is right that the Yankees are playing to win the division and be financially successful, rather than to win it all, but they are still a solid team. They need to part with Cashman or increase payroll, Boone is unimpressive, but I do not see him as the main problem.
In the last 101 games of 2022 (including the playoffs) the Yankees were 50-51. The stars aligned for them in the first half of the season and injuries and reality set in. the second half. The first half was the fluke.
What is success ? Winning the World Series….if that’s not your goal- you’re a wasted franchise !
I like the argument though. This is the same argument you can use on why teams won’t trade prospects to better their current team as when u sacrifice the future; you sacrifice potential butts in the seats
The yanks aren’t trying to win it ?? You must be a crunchy yankee fan.
Unfortunately for yankee fans – dodgers are much better at building a team through FA and trades than yanks.
And that’s why the dodgers are posturing on judge. To drive up the price so Yankees have another bloated salary for an aging player.
What is their malfunction?
==========================
Attendance. TB is #28, Oakland is #30, and Cleveland is #25. For some reason, fans think that this is something that can be fixed. It can’t be. Teams like Cleveland, Cincy, Pitt, etc., simply have small populations, and are generally not wealthy cities. Places like NYC, LA, Chicago also have much larger numbers of corporate offices, which allow for more revenue via the luxury boxes.
Any posts that think small cities can spend like large cities can likely be ignored.
Trumbo —That’s why I say CEILING and FLOOR. But both sides have dug in, and the fans are the ones who feel the brunt of it.
Every single owner is capable of spending money on their teams.
================================
It’s a simple exercise. Compare the cash flow for the LAD, NYY, or the Cubs, to teams like CL, KC, and PT. Take off the fixed expenses. Compare the free cash. NY, LA & CH probably have 10x the free cash flow.
There is no way small markets can spend like large markets. None.
Just as an analogy, it’s like saying that you and your neighbor can buy a $100k Porsche. But you have $100,000 in the bank, and he has $5M. You can’t outbid him, and you won’t spend 100% of your savings on a Porsche.
This is really obvious.
The biggest problem the Yanks had was staying healthy. A Yankee team with King, DJ, Green, Britton, Chapman, Effross, Macinaccio, Montas, and Benintendi would have had a better chance. Most of the Phillies and Astros are healthy.
The first step is to move Tampa and Oakland to a new location. Neither has a good fan base. If they were in Nashville and Montreal they would spend more on players.
Where is the Boss when you need him? He wouldn’t put up with this and Cashman would be gone yesterday…
That’s not quite right. Cashman might have to pay for it, but the Boss would have a bigger payroll than Hal allows. As others have said, Hal seems to be content to simply make the playoffs every year. There is some logic to that, but then you can’t blame Cashman if all he does is make the playoffs every year.
I don’t advocate for uncontrolled spending, but just like with Philly this year, sometimes it pays to go over the top,
Signing Judge probably means Trea is gone. Lux is a much cheaper SS and if he struggles against lefties, Chris Taylor can platoon with him. Jacob Amaya (AAA) might even be a decent mid season call up or injury replacement. Moving Mookie to 2nd only makes that more likely. I agree with the move if they can get Judge for a shorter deal vs Trea. Dodgers need more power.
Manly, you don’t think they are shooting for both? I would say Trea Turner and Aaron Judge are of practically equal value…I expect them to sign Turner but I don’t know about Judge. Doubtful.
I think moving Lux to SS and Mookie to 2B and signing Judge makes more sense than re-signing Trea because the Dodgers lack power with Bellinger what he is now.
Phillies and Astros have been out slugging their opponents and the Dodgers left a bunch of guys on base in the NLDS. Trea is probably the better player but Judge fills a weakness for LA.
I hope they can keep Trea at the right price but I don’t think it’s likely.
TrumboJumbo;
I figured that Judge would play the Yankees and Mets against one another, but go back to the Yankees. I think the post-season changed that.
Both Cleveland and Houston knew that the Yankees were really not that good, and that Judge was the only player that could beat them with any consistency. Both teams gave him nothing to hit, and now Yankee fans and their media – being the low-life’s they are – have gone after Judge saying in so many words that he choked.
It’s not his fault that there was no one hitting behind him that scared the opposition. We see this a lot after playoffs – where a team (or teams) figure out a strategy against a player, and the following season the rest of the league picks it up.
He’s going to need a bat or two behind him in 2023. Maybe that’s Freeman with the Dodgers, maybe someone(s) else. He made the greatest salary run in his walk year in MLB history. Not so sure he repeats anything like that for more then maybe a year….and he’ll want at least a 7 year contract at astronomical rates.
It’ll be interesting to see where he plays in 2023, and how he plays.
The Dodgers are my second favorite team after the Cubs. They will sign Judge or Turner, but not both. They need to sign two pitchers to replace Kershaw/Buehler/Anderson. The cheapest route would be to resign Kershaw and Anderson. I also hope that they can sign Robert Suarez, the Harper home run may cost Suarez some contract-money but he is still solid.
Also, if the Dodgers want to extend 26 year-old Julio Urias who is a free agent after 2023 ends, he may command as much as 8 years and $216 million. Boras like to test free agency but I see Urias taking a $200 million plus extension.
Cleveland and Houston went right after Judge. He received a grand total of 2 walks in 38 plate appearances. His failure in the post-season has nothing to do with the other hitters in the lineup.
Were pitching him on the corners then expanded his strike zone.
There are some great players who are free agents this year, but the Dodgers lost like most other teams because of their pitching. The Phillies and Astros, have good starting and relief pitching, that’s why they are winning. Even great hitters like Judge and Altuve can slump in the playoffs. Great pitching wins!!
They need a cleanup hitter so they can bump Will Smith to 5 or 6
Who would want to play for that peacock, Gabe?
Judge will be 31 at the start of next season. He will probably want 8 years/$320M or more. Is signing a 31 year old to that deal really a good idea? I lean toward it not being a good idea, but I think the robot ump may really help Judge by stopping low balls from being called strikes.
He won’t get anywhere near the contract. He will get somewhere around the $30.5mm annual AV he turned down. MAYBE, get up to $32mm AAV. It will be the addition of an 8th year that makes the difference.
Eight years $300 million even, that’s my guess. I think he is worth $40 million per year for six years, with two player options for $30 million each the last two years. So eight years $300 million I think it will happen. Judge is worth more than Corey Seager or Gerrit Cole and there only needs to be one taker. Giants, Dodgers, Mets or Yankees, in that order of likelihood.
I would take deGrom, Scherzer, Verlander,Sale, Severino, Kershaw, Bauer, Diaz , and Jansen if healthy over any of the position players. They can put you over the top.
Of course they are, 111 regular season wins obviously were not enough
Pitching, pitching, pitching!
They have no idea what they’re doing.
Turner has said he would like to play closer to home. How much of a premium on the 10 year $35 million AAV his agent has said he is worth it would take to keep him in the west coast?
Zero excuses will be accepted if Judge finds new quarters. Show him the Cash-man! Or show yourself out!
Hal Steinbrenner is probably gonna throw a glass of wine at his butler after hearing this news
Or toast with him…..
Will make another failed trip to the WS that much more enjoyable for the rest of the league
My guess is they non-tender and resign Bellinger
This news is brought to you by the leading name in sporting news DUH.com
I love how Baseball Reference lists bowling scores for Mookie Betts.
This would be nuts and is this really the spirit of the game
Big Contracts and buy championship
The Dodgers need to find another Kirk Gibson
We are gonna see the Mets and Dodgers spend 350 mil on payroll.
and win zilch
Best meme I saw recently. Dodgers field current team plus Judge, Trout, Ohtani – win 134 games and still lose the NLCS.
I’m afraid the Giants, Farhan Zaidi, will be used by agents, such as Boras, only to drive up the $ and will not land any of the top tier free agents like Judge.
I hope I’m wrong…
Central Valley, doesn’t every agent possess the power/potential to “drive up a bid?” Why just Boras exclusively???
Sadly Boras is much better at it than most
“Congratulations a******, you win”
My actual point, admittedly not clearly articulated, was is seems the Giants can’t land the big acquisitions. I hope this off season I’m proven wrong.
When the Farm isn’t delivering, you need to spend $, and land top tier talent. The Giants may be looking up to not only the Dodgers and Padres, but also the Diamondbacks.
I root against the Giants and I still think they spend pretty well.
Personally, with the DH, I would spend $300 million on Judge if I have the kind of money that Giants, Dodgers, Mets and Yankees have, and there is no pitcher in the league where I would go over $225 million.
When that happens though it’s not entirely a bad thing. If Farhan gets in a bidding war with Friedman and drives up the price so that the Dodgers overpay, that’s a better outcome for the Giants than if the Farhan doesn’t get “used” and the Dodgers pay less for that player.
No chance Judge isn’t a Yankee
Agree. Don’t think he and his agent will go highest bidder route here. He seems comfortable in the Bronx. He’s settled in. IE. looks like he is most productive hitting in the 1 or 2 hole and the Yanks are ok with it. How many of these other suitors will want him hitting clean up or in the 5 hole?
If the Dodgers or Giants or Mets or Red Sox offer more than the Yanks, he’s gone.
Dodgers have the weather, team, money, revenue, and system to win over any free agent. They only go after the top ones. This winter that means Judge and Turner.
And yet . . .Yankee fans booed Judge. Not a good look after what he did this season.
In all honesty, that was a minority of fans. If you were at the game there were far fewer fans booing him than those remaining silent or cheering him. The reality is: he didn’t perform and he needed to. Those who chose to boo him are within their rights to do so. I think Judge understands that. He said the season was a failure. He said he needed to play better.
I didn’t boo him and I don’t think it does the player any good; but he’s going out to get as much money as humanly possible, to the tune of $300+MM, so if he doesn’t perform when he should, I really don’t think we can claim it’s unwarranted behavior either. That’s just an honest assessment, brother.
I think Judge might give the Yankees a very slight discount to stay. I still only seed them “4th” in the Judge sweepstakes unless I get a report that Cashman is gone by December 31st.
Yankees fans boo everyone. They’ve booed Derek Jeter before. It’s a winning atmosphere. Boston is similar.
The thing is Judge can hit as many homeruns as he wants to but that doesn’t guarantee that the Yankees win.
Bingo, the only way the Yanks win is to land 2 top starters, and 2 top relief pitchers. That and stay healthy for one season, which seems to be impossible in todays game!
People forget that Judge has played in more than 112 games in only 3 of his 6 seasons – granted of those 3 he didn’t was 2020 – but he still missed half of that season. I find it hard to trust that his big body is going to break down less with age. The first couple years of the deal might turn out alright, but $40m/year is going to be expensive on the IL.
You’re right, Ryan. But, for arguments sake, let’s say you’re wrong. My opinion is that Judge still isn’t a $40MM player. He played 157 games this year to have the season he had and his playoff BA was about .170, probably because he was smoked.
I want the Yankees to retain Judge. In many ways, I think they have to. But, I don’t think it’s a logical choice for the club’s future to pay a long-term contract anywhere near $40MM.
I would do seven years at $280 million. My view with Judge is the same as with Tatis, Harper and others, after about three years you move the player to 80% DH to protect your investment.
I don’t think Yankees outbid the Dodgers at that price. But I agree, he isn’t worth 40 million.
It is safe to say that Judge will not be worth what he gets this winter. Last season he was worth, 213 million and now he is a year older. He had a super year which raises his value, but how much
He will go to whomever pays him the most money
Somebody is tired of winning 100+ and getting bounced out of the playoffs. Never a good idea to spend in response to frustration.
Don, just ask the Halos..
The dodgers: all star at every position yet they’ll still find a way to lose
That will continue to b the case unless they address that rotation which really should be prioritized ahead of Judge.
Wasn’t their rotation really good and just got hit by the injury bug? I thought middle of the season Urias and Gosselin were at the top of the leaderboards. Could be wrong I don’t follow the dodgers
Of Course L.A. will go after Judge and so will most of the league but I still believe Judge stays a Yankee.
Most of the league already knows they can’t afford Judge.
start off with high hopes ended in no hopes now time go after the best free agent with high hopes again and we’ll see what happens ws or bust.
I would Bett against Mookie moving to second, but you be the Judge
Could.
We’re entering the season of qualifiers, allowing every team to potentially be in on all free agents.
Eventually people will lose interest in this sport if the same teams always get the free agents. I mean it’s losing popularity as it is. Imagine judge, ohtani and arenado on the dodgers. Probably still get bounced but may get to the nlcs
The Dodgers let Yu Darvish, Zack Greinke, Corey Seager, Manny Machado, and now Trea Turner all walk. The big free agents they’ve signed are Freddie Freeman and no one else. This narrative that the Dodgers buy everyone is tired and wrong
I agree with you, but the trade and sign of Mookie Betts also fits the narrative. And so did Trevor Bauer. But the Dodgers should spend, I have no problem with it.
I forgot about Bauer. I think my point still holds though. Padres spend more on free agents and I’m not mad about it. I think it’s great for baseball. Cards and Rays do it well in mid and small markets.
Agree completely.
It’s as if the Dodgers should almost apologize for spending money like the well-run big-market team that they are….
Of they don’t win every year, why does it matter?
As a Yankee fan who follows every game, I hope the Dodgers do sign him. What’s more important for the team is hiring a new GM and manager. After that, they need to start the move toward a hard rebuild. After 30 years of .500+ wining seasons, it’s time to reset and acquire the top-end draft picks. The team has spent too long relying on okay draft picks where you hope you score a winner (Judge is an example) supplemented with high-priced FAs. It’s not working and there’s a reason most of the WS winners over the past decade have won–they acquired excellent drat picks who performed. People seem to forget the Jeter-led Yankees were all drafted after years of losing seasons (the same thing the Astros, Cubs, Royals, etc. did). You can’t build a long-term WS winning team without them.
On a side note, Judge is not that good in the post season so signing a 31+ year old injury prone player who eats up payroll for the next 8+ years is not a winning strategy.
Correct
Look, my opinion is: Cashman is a HOF GM at the end of his career and he is *the guy* to keep at the helm IF Hal goes in a spending spree. Otherwise, if Hal wants to stay near the cap, Cashman/Boone have to go. They haven’t won in 12 seasons now.
Boone made some terrible choices in this series, specifically as it pertains to positional assignments/use of personnel & BP management. But, they didn’t lose because he’s ineffective. They lost because of the manner in which Cashman constructed this roster. They cannot hit.
This team went 50-50 in their last 100 games. Every single season is the same outcome.
Ultimately, you’re right. Both have to go, or Hal has to spend freely. Much to my dismay I think Cashman will be re-signed and Boone will stay.
They lost because homeruns do not equal getting to a World Series. It means you can beat teams like the Orioles and still have terrible pitching and still win those games. Regular season wins mean nothing
Ask the Astros about playing the orioles
Agreed, Yankees didn’t know how to score runs outside of the homerun. That is all they swung for, which resulted in the strikeouts.
Cashman made the moves to improve the Yanks, adding Montas, Effross, Benintendi, at the deadline. They just didn’t stay healthy. Losing DJ, and Benintendi really hurt the hitting..
Montas is garbage and most fans realize his stats look good because he pitched at Oakland Colliseum which is pitcher-friendly. He was only good on steroids lol.
But I don’t think people are correct who say fire Cashman. It is not his fault, he got Bader, Holmes, and a couple of other good additions. Bullpen mostly was injured and the reason they did poorly against the Astros is because of the homerun approach to hitting. You can’t homerun your way to the World Sereis. Fire Lawson, not Cashman
Moolie needs to move. He is going to break down more and more. He also needs to quit bowling with the hip issues. Still think Judge is a yank next year.
Agreed. They have to drive up the price.
Dodgers will resign Trea and go after DeGrom and Diaz from Mets! Outman and Vargas wil be in the starting lineup! Anderson and Heaney will be gone, possibly Kershaw too! Good chance you might see Pepiot AND Miller in the rotation! Belli and JT are GONE!
Trea will want to play for the National League champions. 8/275. Not stupid money.
Dunsel
Cause the Phillies need more offense rather than one more quality starter? Nah.
Look up Andrew Painter; he should be in the rotation by June. Wheeler, Nola, and Suarez remain the top three. I would try to resign Thor for 2/30; some TJ pitchers get velocity back after an extra year and now he knows how to pitch, not just throw. Bailey Falter remains as a good number 6. Mick Abel and Griff McGarry are coming soon also. Given the streaky nature of some of the players (Hoskins, Schwarber, Castellanos come to mind) I would rather have Turner’s offense and leadoff abilities.
If Kershaw is gone it will be because he retired. I don’t see him playing for anyone but the dodgers
I agree with you that Bellinger is gone, maybe getting a one year deal with the Marlins after the Dodgers release him. Juston will be released but maybe re-signed at a much less amount. Pepiot and Miller will not be opening day starters, especially not Miller. Kershaw will 90% be back and 10% retire, but the 10% would shock me. Vargas will not be in the opening day starting lineup, but he will be a regular most of the season. No Trea, no deGrom no Edwin Diaz. Outman will not be a big factor in 2023.
I think Nimmo would be a good fit for the Dodgers. deGrom and Diaz and more than 50/50 to stay put.
Why Nimmo? Guy gets on base but doesn’t drive in runs.
Too many exclamation points Terry. Too many.
Already with this nonsense? This team’s window is CLOSED. Betts is fragile, Freeman’s getting old, their core has no heart, & the young prospects look mediocre at best. Nobody cares about regular season wins. Plus, the west will be much better next year, so they won’t be able to rely on a cupcake schedule again. Such a joke of a team…
I think you are talking about my Yankees, no?
Betts and Freeman is the heart of the team , Betts is far from fragile and Freeman is far from old. Any team in the league would love to have the Dodger mediocre prospects and besides the Padres is the west really gonna be better. C’mon man
Cartaya is a top five prospect in all of baseball in my opinion. Vargas is a MLB all-star by 2024, despite only being an average defender. Busch may not crack the Dodgers line-up but he will be a MLB starter for some team by 2024.
The “young prospect look mediocre”? Which ones? And how so?
And they won ONE HUNDRED AND ELEVEN games because of a cupcake schedule?
I mean, I get it, you’re a troll with nothing better to do, but man, do…better, ya know?
No trolling here. Vargas, Pepiot, etc are meh. RE 111 wins: thanks for proving my point. Yes, their schedule was cupcake, hence the win total. The west was an awful division this year. LA folded when it mattered most, as usual, “ya know”?
That’s so upsetting to see teams like the dodgers and the Yankees living rent free and getting every big names and handing massive contracts left and right. Baseball needs a salary cap like in the NHL. Since I’ve followed baseball, a lot of teams has stayed competitive and a lot of teams have been rotting in the bottom of the standings. I would to see one day teams like the D-backs, marlins, Colorado, the bucks and the reds being at the top and the now richer teams struggling
Well I don’t know how old you are but I’ve seen the Dbacks and the Marlins win World Series in the past approx 20 years. Also I’ve seen the Rockies play in a World Series. Reds also have had some decent teams in the past like some of the years with Sean Casey. Reds also looked pretty good a couple years back playing really competitive baseball in the playoffs against the Braves. That Bauer Fried matchup was one hell of a pitchers duel.
It’s not $ that’s keeping the Rockies at the bottom…
Dodgers looking for a $500 million dollar payroll and they’ll still be bounced out of the playoffs.
Betts has 25 career starts at 2B, 10 of which is have come the past two seasons (mostly due to injuries/Dave Roberts bizarre logic). Betts is 30 and moving to 2B now is probably a recipe for disaster. Especially when they could non-tender Bellinger and play either Betts/Judge in CF or move one of them to LF as the Dodgers don’t really have a set player there either
Why can’t Taylor play 2B with Betts/Bellinger/Judge in the OF?
Why would moving one of the sport’s great players (and great all-around athletes, who played 2B until making the switch as a Red Sox prospect) to a position that’s less physically demanding be a “recipe for disaster”?
I look forward to this response.
(Or are you just hurt that your team traded a surefire HoFer for pennies on the dollar? Because you know what’s “probably a recipe for disaster”? Trading surefire HoFers for pennies on the dollar….)
Oh oh.
30 years old, hip issues and a big money salary. No need to put him at a position that he has sparsely played in the Major Leagues when they could play he or Judge in CF/LF. I’m actually not upset the Sox traded Mookie because they never going to re-sign him anyway. “Pennies on the dollar” is better than nothing at all
Clickbait article.
Boras is going to want Judge to get more money than Betts in FA.
Realistically, I can see LA signing Swanson to play SS, Busch and Lux splitting time at 2nd.
Because inflated payroll leads to postseason success
Yup, called it.
I’m not convinced the Dodgers want Mookie at 2B. They’ll probably just push the price the Yankees will have to pay to retain Judge.
How would pushing the price for a team in the AL East help the Dodgers? It just raises the comparables for the next guy the Dodgers want to sign.
As a Dodgers fan, I don’t know how to feel about a Judge signing. On one hand, I see what he adds to the middle of a line-up, but on the other, he still has a history of injury, along with the fact that the “enormous human being” body type never ages well in baseball.
The back end of any Judge contract exceeding 4 years is going to be Pujols-esque.
I think you nailed it. Realistically, he won’t mean as much to other organizations as he does the Yanks. And, he played 157 games this season. He won’t ever do that again, and if he does, how long will he be able to maintain health/production at that pace?
The MLB needs fixing, so badly.
Not sure what this means.
Giants will be right there with them, along with the Yankees and possibly more! As needy as the Giants are for star power I see them going to extremes to land at least Judge. If they miss, they can grab Turner, star pitcher or two and a quality outfielder.
See a lot of Mets, Yankees, Dodgers, Giants talk but don’t count out the Padres. This seems like a Preller move.
It may seem like a Preller move, but the Giants are in need of star power and bad. If the Giants want him and he’s willing to go, the money will flow from the Giants. It’s really up to where Judge wants to play at this point.
Yankees need to stop being so home run dependent and be able to manufacture runs. Locking up Judge, Cole, and Stanton into their late 30’s will make for an ugly roster down the road.
Yankees would be better off signing a speedy high average hitter like Trea to play SS until one of the kids is ready then move Turner to 2B. They already have power bats
Normally I’d say that this is sad, but then I look at Bellinger mentioned as a nontender candidate.
I doubt that. Somebody would certainly give the Dodgers something instead of letting him hit the open market. I’d be all in for the Marlins trying to grab him up. He seems like the type of guy that just needs a change of scenery. Unless he was using some super-PED a few years ago, or is dealing with a chronic injury that is hidden, I don’t see how a guy could fall off so badly from where he once was. He’d be a great candidate for a rebound…especially in a new setting.
Look at Yelich…he’s done basically the same thing as Belli with a little higher batting average.
And a lot more money.
His fall coincided with MLB’s crack down on electronic sign stealing. He was the largest recipient of it in the league.
He had shoulder surgery and hasn’t returned anywhere near his peak. It would seem he doesn’t feel confident in his shoulder to swing as before, being an honest Dodger fan
Also, the shoulder is among multiple other injuries
Thanks for the info. I’d be curious to take a flyer on him. We have nothing to lose at this point.
I think that the Dodgers will release Bellinger and your Marlins will sign him to a one year deal at $10 million.
I’d actually be ok with that.
He’s battled some injuries these last couple years, but it’s far more than that.
His swing is preposterously long and complicated, with a loading mechanism that doesn’t allow him to get to high heat, even when telegraphed. And because he’s a chronic tinkerer (seriously, his setup and swing path are never the same from year to year) and unwilling to be coached (Dodgers’ staff have given interviews on the subject that read essentially as saying, “We’ve done all we can do”) and lacks any sort of two-strike approach (which is really tough when you’re constantly in 0-2/1-2 counts), his ABs are both excruciating and (blessedly) brief.
Honestly, I thought the Dodgers had found their Ted Williams as baseball hit the 2019 AS break. And ever since, he’s been either damaged goods or just plain awful. Turns on the 2019 first half (and the MVP it won him) was the mother of all statistical outliers.
Oh, and his defense, while perfectly good, isn’t nearly enough to justify his presence in a starting lineup or earning $17M-plus.
His time is now done.
Commenter, you are talkin solid stuff my friend….spot on…You know Bellinger 100% Keep up the solid posts!
Great post and information.
If he’s released, I’m hoping the Marlins get him.
Music to ears of Judge and his agent. Not Cashman. ( gonna have to live up to his name ) Every story planted er written I mean , of big buck teams looking to go after Judge keeps driving that price up.
Whatever. LAD will win 130 games and get swept in the NLCS by the 4th wild card team.
Move Aaron Judge to 2B instead. Do not be a coward.
Judge at 2B would certainly make for some entertaining games. With that potential defense and his offense, he’d keep both teams in the game.
COOL! Judge could go from one major market team that spends a LOT of cash and wins a LOT of regular season games without getting a ring to another!
Hopefully his next contract will give him enough money to fix that tooth gap
Judge got his front teeth fixed long ago.
Maybe John Rocker can knock some of them teeth out. He can’t be voted off this time lol
Would make more sense to sign Judge and play him in LF. Make a trade for Bryan Reynolds for CF. Non-Tender Belli.
Let’s just put the top four money spenders in their own division.
It’ll probably never happen, but I’d be open to discussing a cap.
Astros never go after free agents and always have championship contenders, the Angels are always a top spender but never win anything. There’s more to winning than just spending in free agency.
“Astros never go after free agents”
Some free agents signed by the Astros:
Martin Maldonado
Joe Smith
Michael Brantley
Jake Odorizzi
Pedro Baez
Jason Castro
Ryne Stanek
Hector Neris
Niko Goodrum
Justin Verlander
Nice collection of relievers but only Brantley and Verlander are impressive. Houston has let Cole, Correa, & Springer walk. Houston isn’t big spenders on free agents
Yuli Gurriel was also signed as a free agent, as was Jose Urquidy, as was Cristian Javier, as was Bryan Abreu, as was Enoli Paredes, as was Luis Garcia, as was Framber Valdez.
Houston saves money by signing international free agents, but they’re free agents nonetheless.
Stanek isn’t impressive? Since signed by Houston in 2021, he leads their relievers in IP and owns a 2.41 ERA.
International free agents aren’t the same. Framber was signed for $10k.
I think you’re taking internet comments too literal Fink.
Everyone here knows that Astros have signed free agents before. They are not known for spending on free agents compared to other teams competing for a championship. Or maybe he meant in comparison to the payrolls Houston has put out there.
According to Spotrac, the Astros ranked 7th in free agent spending in 2021:
spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/statistics/team/2021/
In 2022, they were only 15th, but they outspent the Yankees:
spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/statistics/team/2022/
Which is why the Dodgers have won more than anyone for the last decade, with a run differential almost twice as big as the 2nd-place team over that period of time:
Because they don’t just spend money in free agency.
To quote Col. Sherman T. Potter, the idea of Judge leaving the Yankees is “Horse puckey”. Judge isn’t going anywhere.
Lots of big (and stupid) money in play this offseason. Cubs, Yankees, Mets, Giants, Phillies, Tigers, Orioles and LAD will all be in the marketplace.
Not one of the top FAs (Judge, Turner, Correa, Rodon, Arenado, Bogaerts, Diaz) will likely consider a home team discount.
My gut tells me:
1. In the endgame, Yankees will beat any offer for Judge. Fan base in NY will demand it and neither Friedman or Farhan (the only two serious competitors) will offer what it would take to pry Judge away. Mets are a wild card; but even stupid money from Cohen won’t be enough.
2. If Trea were going to remain in LA, I think it would have gotten done by now. I don’t think Friedman believes Trea is a franchise player at the level of Mookie, Freeman and Kersh. A more enamored and equally resourced team (Phillies, Giants, Cubs) will exceed what Friedman is willing to pay—much like the Seager exit. Lux (or perhaps Swanson, Bogaerts) will make more sense to Andrew and the Dodgers will redirect these dollars more efficiently toward addressing another priority need.
3. Dodgers will prioritize Starting Pitching. They will look seriously at Rodon and if they see no red flags on health, LAD will make an offer to Rodon for 4 years that exceeds what any other team is willing to pay.
Just one fan’s opinion.
@John
Where would he park his Ferrari?
Exhibit A on why a salary floor and cap are needed. Super teams have ruined the NBA and that’s essentially what these “stupid money” teams are going for now in baseball.
DTD/ATL1313;
Yes, but look who went to LCS’s and now the WS.
And look at all of the bottom feeders that aren’t spending money and are an embarrassment to the league and their fan base. The one thing they all have in common is owners who refuse to spend.
DTD/ATL1313;
LOL
That is really dumb….
Let’s see – so if every team spends a lot there won’t be any bottem feeders?
Spending guarantees winning?
How many week have you been following MLB?
Where did I say anything about guaranteeing winning? Notice I said cap and floor. There needs to be competitive balance, something that is definitely missing in a big way. Be inhibiting the big markets with bottomless pockets to buy all the top players and making bottom feeders spend money, you’re gonna have the top talent spread more evenly throughout the league. It’s common sense, sorry you’re missing it.
Neither spending floors nor ceilings would be required if the revenue from the game was divvied up equally between the franchises, and success was rewarded. The way it works now, the rich teams pay off the less-rich teams to be noncompetitive, and those teams are rewarded with high draft picks for being perennial losers. Nobody should be surprised by the results of the system as it exists today. It’s working the way it was designed to work.
Revenue should not be divided. That’s just welfare for the rich. There also is no such thing as less rich teams. There are rich teams and rich teams that refuse to spend. I do agree that tanking should result in draft penalties.
Welfare for the… what?! Do you have no idea at all how the baseball finance and revenue system works?
I know smaller market teams get money from revenue sharing and I absolutely disagree with it.
I have a feeling you’d be unable to explain your objections. But since the subject is on the floor, it seems not everyone totally understands that MLB isn’t 30 independent businesses, it’s one business with 30 owners. They collectively decide how to split up the revenue pie, and they do it in whatever way they believe is best for their business. The perverse system they’ve decided upon is the large market teams pay off the smaller market teams to be mostly irrelevant. This is a really crappy system for the fans in a whole lot of baseball towns, and for baseball overall. They only way to fix it is to split up the revenue from the game equally and reward success instead of failure. But if a lot fans don’t care, then why should the owners?
The 4th highest and 9th highest payroll went.
mlb Is similar.
Doesn’t NBA have a salary cap?
Yes and the salary disparity is drastically different between players 1,2, and 3 on a roster and 4 thru 11 on the rest of the roster.
It looks like the Yankees are going to lose all three Aarons this offseason.
Honestly, that would actually help the team lol
Great, but instead of moving Betts to 2nd, play him at SS – he played 15 games there in the minor leagues.
Will Smith played a bunch of third base in the minors and he can replace Turner. Shift Muncy to second base and Austin Barnes can back up there. This way, they can sign Wilson Contreras to catch, and then re-sign Trea Turner and put him in center.
What a stupid idea; creating problems that don’t have to exist, all by trying to win the “on paper in February” game.
Win every game in the season and lose in the playoffs because Robert’s left his brain at home.
I opined here a long time ago that Judge would end up in San Francisco. But the Dodgers obviously know of the Giants’ interest in him, so I won’t be surprised if they pay whatever it takes to get him.
I don’t expect the Yankees to spend to keep him.
Tiki Barber has a segment about what the Yankees need to do this offseason and I think he’s dead right. First, Hal must commit to winning. Next, it’s time for Cashman to go. Third, Boone has to go.
Cashman has been given every opportunity and demonstrated that he can’t develop a championship roster. He pushes out the same type of roster and every offseason ends with an impotent offense limping out of the playoffs early.
Boone has to go too. He may not be bad. Perhaps it’s information overload (as Kay says), but he doesn’t have the pulse of the club, he can’t make the necessary decisions, and/or he isn’t able to communicate his message to them effectively.
BTW, Boone confirming that he had David Ortiz FT with the players for inspiration just before GM 4, shows how misguided and desperate he is. Would the Red Sox have Mo or Jeter call in to Fenway during the ACLS or WS for a pep talk with the Sox? What the hell is Boone doing?
Tiki and Kay should be the ones to go, they are horrible!
BTW, watching *61 right now on the tube. Kind of cathartic given the current circumstances!
Barry Pepper was a perfect choice to play Roger, IMO. Good movie.
I can’t believe how much he looks like Maris. It’s his doppelgänger, no doubt. Thomas Jane did a pretty darn good job as Mickey, especially the accent.
Clipper & Fink, “61” is a real hidden gem that a lot of movie/baseball fans don’t even know about. Barry Pepper looks a TON like Maris but I gotta say that Thomas Jane is not far off from the Mick. My favorite scene of the movie was when Mick hit his “one handed” home run! Tells the catcher “try that one again” hahaha
Of course every team will make a call to the agent. But with Justin Turners exit, the dodgers will look to sign Arenado after he opts out of the STL.
Arenado won’t opt out. He’s not stupid.
Lol? Even as a Yankee fan, why would the Dodgers waste money on a guy that hits tons of homeruns against the Baltimore and then disappears come playoff time? The only reason you sign this guy is because he puts fans in the seats. He would be better to fit that criteria on a team like the Brewers or Piratea. Yankees already experimented with Stanton and don’t need a second Stanton lol
The reporter has no idea what the Dodgers are going to do! Friedman always does something nobody thought of. Just watch and learn, then trust Andrew Friedman. Go dodgers
No good Deeds goes unpunished.
Ehh, he’s not that unpredictable when it comes to free agency…
Amazing GM, but that enormous budget is also helping them/him alot these days..
Yeah, like trading for Kimbrel and Gallo. Brilliant moves.
There is a high payroll tolerance that allows bigger markets luxuries smaller ones have to overcome, and this natural advantage of a larger fanbase doesn’t chain them to cheap franchise players. By having more options to build a playoff team, bigger fanbases help teams reach the playoffs. However, there is such a thing as too much greed. The Dodgers, if they believe going after Judge makes sense, will be one of diminishing returns. By stacking up too much money they risk crushing their options going forward. The Dodgers have realized to keep this ship floating, they need to keep adding the best players because there isn’t enough coming up from the farm to keep the pedal floored. The eventual emptying of options will be their fate. Judge may be wonderful for a few more seasons but it will come at a cost that we saw in Detroit with aging superstars. Purgatory.
ClevelandSteelEngines;
The Dodger have one of the best – if not the best – farm systems in MLB.
Where do you think this endless supply of young quality Catchers and Pitchers keeps coming from?
Catchers and pitchers can’t replace outfielders and infielders like a cinch. Just boasting about depth at certain positions ignores that different needs sporadically arise. Then, there is the transition to the bigs where even elite prospects struggle to adapt. This is exactly why smaller market teams tend to miss a beat, that larger market teams fill with free-agent studs or blockbuster trades.
Judge is a stud, but strikes out a ton. The dodgers whole lineup with the exception of freeman strike out too much. Judge will sign with the Giants and trea will be in Philadelphia. I can see them all in on degrom and The Who knows what Friedman will do.
The Dodgers might go after a big ticket free agent. Now there’s some news. Make a list of the top free agents nobody thinks the Dodgers might pursue. It will be a lot shorter.
Blue Skies:
Here is your list:
1.) All of the first basemen
2.) Carlos Correa.
All done!
Good work, but just wait for the Correa rumors.
every year Dodgers try to buy the WS but it never works.
Half the teams will spend below the median. The other fifty percent will spend more than the median. You heard it here.
And the intelligence of half of everyone you meet is below average. Now you’ve heard everything!
Actually, due to the difference in meaning between median and average, what you say is – technically – not necessarily true. Half the people are above and below the median, but the average could be slightly off the midpoint.
So maybe I should have said arithmetic mean instead?
I know it is trying to be funny, but are people out there that think every team should be above .500.
Sure. Let’s let the #1 team get the #1 player. That’ll work great.
I’d rather they spend on Arenado this year and Ohtani next year.
This year was Judge’s peak so go ahead and take him. The Yankees had the best of him.
If you thought the front office culture of the New York Yankees couldn’t get any worse, apparently you were wrong:
‘Aaron Boone said that Chad Bohling, the #Yankees’ mental skills coach, was sending around highlight videos of the 2004 Red Sox this morning. Eduardo Perez also FaceTimed David Ortiz into Boone’s office pregame.”
cbsnews.com/boston/news/yankees-inspiration-red-so…
Mental skills coach? Seriously? Showing them the most epic collapse in Yankees history was going to inspire them?
That’s…..incredibly embarrassing. It’s embarrassing to hear that as a Yankees fan. I’m embarrassed to be a Yankees fan right now.
I envy those who grew up in New York when the Dodgers, Yankees and Giants all played there. They would have been able to watch great players at every game they attended.
Randy Miller of NJ.com projects this as the 2023 Yankee lineup if Judge leaves:
1. Harrison Bader, CF
2. Andrew Benintendi, LF
3. DJ LeMahieu, DH
4. Giancarlo Stanton, RF
5. Anthony Rizzo, 1B
6. Gleyber Torres, 2B
7. Josh Donaldson, 3B
8. Jose Trevino, C
9. Oswald Peraza, SS
Without venturing to comment on the rest of this laughable lineup, I’ll just say that if Josh Donaldson still has a job in the Bronx next year, Hal had best not repeat his annual BS about aiming for a championship.
But if Cashman still has a job in the Bronx, I won’t be surprised if Miller’s projection proves true.
I thought Shohei was gonna DH?
Well Stanton isn’t going to play LF full time so that doesn’t make sense and DJ who’s a solid fielder as DH?
This also implies that either Rizzo doesn’t opt out of his deal, or re-signs and that they re-sign Benintendi
Miller still has a job, he should have been fired for what he did to Clint!
That line-up could win 100 games if the Yanks add 2 top starters and 2 top relief pitchers. Add de Grom and Sale, Diaz and Jansen.
Mookie bending over backwards for the Dodgers and they want to sign Judge… great to see them driving up the price for Cashman. I’m not so sure Dodgers sign him but Yankees will certainly have to outbid and overpay. I love it.
Judge is going to get the most money based on a career year. He’s definitely a great player but he will be vastly overpaid and most likely won’t put up 2022 numbers every year.
If they’re driving up the price, they have the Giants in mind, not the Yankees — and if they’re not genuinely interested in signing him, they’d be fools not to pretend that they are. The Giants are their rivals, not the Yankees.
Yes, but if you drive up the price for the Giants, you drive up the price for the Yankees. I will say I genuinely believe the Dodgers are interested in signing Judge, however.
Right. You drive up the price to any team that’s interested in signing him. But it’s much more meaningful to the Dodgers if Judge lands with their division rival than if he stays in New York.
Not disagreeing with you on that one. Can the Giants even afford Judge though? Farnan reminds me of Bloom in many ways…
They absolutely can. They have lots of payroll space, they’re the 5th-most-valuable franchise according to Forbes, and they have more revenue than the Angels who gave a massive contract to Mike Trout. Olney has suggested that the decision to add Judge might come from ownership, not Zaidi. If ownership is all in, they’ve got the money to get it done — and Judge grew up a Giants fan. Perhaps significantly, when asked, he refused to say that Bonds wasn’t the legitimate home run king, even though Maris was a Yankee.
Mookie is a wild man. RF is his home but he loves playing 2B just to show people he can do it/how good he is at it. Still the 2nd best player in the game.
No one will expect him to put up those numbers – it was literally a career year.
I think the Yankees add an extra two years and about 60-70 mil to their original offer and it’s a wrap
He’ll fit right in with all the other regular season champs, they can have him.
Great another overpriced ex Yankee to sign with the losers of the left coast. Just to get bounced out in the first round of the playoffs. Isn’t it amazing. The two teams with the highest payrolls,dodgers and Yankees, always lose big time. They never learn their lesson. And the moron fans just drunk the Kool aid.
The Mets had the highest payroll this year.
Which overpriced ex-Yankee plays for the Dodgers? The only two ex-Yankees I know of are Joey Gallo and Andrew Heaney, and Gallo made $10.275M this year, and Heaney made $8.5M.
BTW, the Dodgers won the 2020 World Series.
They have yet to win a World Series in a real season. Yes that ring counts, but not as equally as a full season. They’ve had multiple chances and have failed multiple times.
The Dodgers are having significant payroll coming off their books over the next few seasons so they definitely will have the ability to sign Judge & to resign Turner if needed.
Go get ’em him Dodgers! Sign Judge to a $500+ million contract!
Yep go getem. One of the best team money can buy.
This is from an MLB.com article about the Phils’ Rob Thomson:
‘He has an easy-going way about him. He is warm and friendly. He can tell a joke and share a good story. But, most important in the clubhouse and in the dugout, he is even-keeled and true to his word.
‘For weeks, folks wanted Thomson to shuffle his lineup.
“No chance,” he said each time.
‘Shuffling the lineup would indicate panic, and Thomson does not want anybody to think he is panicking. Because the stench of panic can fill a clubhouse quickly. He is the same way in the dugout. After a late error in Game 1 of the NLCS put runners on first and second with one out in the ninth, Thomson calmly walked to the mound to help everybody relax. The Phillies retired the next two batters to win the game.’
mlb.com/news/rob-thomson-loved-by-phillies-players…
The contrast with Aaron Boone’s constant juggling of the lineup during the Yankees’ postseason is glaring.
Let the Dodgers and Giants fight over this post season choker!
This thread is hilarious, I like Thomson , Booney I’m ok , biggest difference in this years playoffs between the two … hot Harper Hoskins Wheeler , cold Judge , mediocre Cole etc , yo yanks started flukey 52-18. Finished 50-52. Not that good a team. Simple as that
LOL…..so when you choke you recruit another choker? Good luck
Dodgers are the new Yankees. Spoiled fans.
Which no dout makes you a sour grapes fan.
Dodgers obviously are determined to keep adding star power until even Dave Roberts can’t screw it up.
You mean Andy Friedman, right?
at what point does it become embarrassing to be a Dodgers fan?
I would find it hard to be a fan of any team that could just go out and buy whoever they wanted year after year. Does not take any baseball acumen to get a Judge, Scherzer etc, just lots of money.
It is embarrassing that many other baseball owners spend so little, not that the Dodgers spend so much. The Dodgers spend a lot and grow the best prospects on their farm. The money enables them to keep those prospects longer. It is what fans want. There are only three or four teams that are more impressive, like the Giants, Atlanta and Astros who have had more post-season success. The Dodgers have been the gold standard for the regular season and fans like their team having won most nights. It may cost $200 million to keep 26 year-old Julio Urias who is a free agent after 2023. I hope that they keep him. But the Dodgers have avoided too many “albatross” contracts where they sign a player who will be good for three years and then bad for five years. It is a well run ship.
All this just to fold in October again, LOL
May as well toss in Ohtani while they’re at it.
Perfect fit for Los Karens. The more crybabies they get the better they fit their nickname. Might call Joe Karen Kelly to come back as well!
“Their” nickname? Nobody nicknamed them that moronic crap other than YOU Rocker! Do us all a favor at least and explain what it means..”Los Karens”???? What kind of stupid nonsense you spouting boy???
From Rocker49’s previous posts he roots for Houston Astros, and makes prejudiced type comments about opposing players. Im assuming he sees the Dodgers as whiney liberals because they’re in LA. And that’s why he calls them los karens. With the los being his way of pointing out the large amount of Spanish speaking Dodger fans.
It’s ironic that he’s supportive in his comments about the Astros, who have a large amount of minorities on their team. Also, the Dodgers are made up of homegrown talent they drafted from the south.
Maybe I’m wrong and Rocker can correct me but that’s how I understand his comments.
Makes sense to Me Manly.
Good times continue in baseball. Not only will Aaron Judge most likely sign with one of the three or four big market/deep pocket owner teams but his reported salary will probably be 35-40m per year. That’s more than the entire team salary for Pirates, Orioles or Guardians in 2022. My only happiness other than watching baseball because I love the game is that the Yankees, Mets and Dodgers did not make it to the WS. Happy for the Phillies and their fans and hope they win it all.
The Phillies are a big-spending team, too.
That’s only more than the entire team salary for the Pirates because they choose not to spend. The focus in your statement should be on the perennially-tanking Pirates and their owner’s aversion to put a viable product in the field. They are given (as in freely) money to build a competitive team and they choose to pocket that.
The Phillies have the fourth-highest payroll this year.
“. . .his reported salary will probably be 35-40m per year. That’s more than the entire team salary for Pirates, Orioles or Guardians in 2022.”
Are you saying the entire payroll for each of those three teams is less than $40M? If so, you’re way off. The cheapest team this year was the Oakland Athletics, and their payroll was $61,017,600.
But please tell me: are you against owners spending what they can afford to put the best possible product on the field?
You are correct. I must have gotten my info from the wrong year on the website sportstrack. Thanks for clarification. There is still a point there however. $40 for one player 60 for an entire team. Baseball owners are playing under the current rules of baseball. They are doing nothing wrong. It is baseball rules and the total unfairness of a team being allowed to spend so much just because they happen to be in a big market. I have always wondered under a equal fanancial playing field would the Yankees or Dodgers have the “rich” history they have enjoyed for so long? Anyway I know it probably will never change in my lifetime but sure would like to see my team be able to sign a Judge type of player. Have a good one.
“Yankees Expected to Retain Aaron Boone, Brian Cashman, per Report”
si.com/mlb/2022/10/25/yankees-expected-to-retain-a…
If this proves true, the 2023 season is already lost — just like the previous 13.
I can only hope this is just a reporter making stuff up:
‘If Boone’s relentless positivity when talking about players rankles many fans, the organization considers him an important firewall between those players and the relentless negativity emanating from just about everywhere else.
‘In fact, the front office wants to find a way to make the experience of being a Yankee more enjoyable, which it wasn’t for many this year. Most see Boone as part of that solution.’
sny.tv/articles/yankees-aaron-judge-boone-brian-ca…
“Make the experience of being a Yankee more enjoyable”?
Professional ballplayers enjoy two things above all:
1. winning
2: being paid for their services
Yankee fans aren’t going to stop being demanding. The sports press isn’t going to stop being critical or intrusive. No amount of “relentless positivity” is going to change that. You don’t see players jumping up and down and hugging each other because Boone said nice things about them in his presser. You see players doing that when they win, and only when they win.
I hope this is just a reporter publishing his unsubstantiated inferences, because if there’s any truth to this, this franchise is in sadder shape than I imagined.
Perfectly said, Fink! I almost sent this to you this afternoon, but didn’t. Anyway, Jim Bowden of the Athletic said that insiders have them returning as well. Moreover, he said that the Yankees have already said their priority is Judge, and because of that, they are once again skipping the SS market.
It’s ….totally inconceivable to me that Hal could bring Cashman back. He’s had so many chances to develop a sustainable championship team – he hasn’t. He’s failed. He failed with three similarly built, but different, rosters: 2017, 2019, & the most embarrassing, 2022.
For the Yankees to be competitive with the Astros, they need to do the following:
Sign T Turner, Judge, Rodon, Tallion, Diaz, & Bennintendi. They won’t, of course. So, if they bring back the architect of this perennial loser, and he brings back his errand boy, we can fully expect “we lost because the roof was open/closed” each and every season.
Boone verbalizing excuses for losing is an embarrassment as a fan. Astros cheating? Yeah, that’s legit, but this year? No, excuses this year are simply….inexcusable. He’s an embarrassment as a man, as a manager, and as a professional. The roof?! And then bringing in the Yankees most historic postseason failure as “motivation” for their team? Seriously?!
Put Mookie in center field!!!
Dodger Blue and cash await Judge.
Looks like the Giants are making Judge their top priority this off-season. Who would’ve guessed.
Report: Giants will do ‘whatever it takes’ to land Judge
smart.link/5afa0f94e49a5?component_id=1037696&…
Judge to the Dodgers would ruin baseball.