The Braves have extended yet another key member of their impressive young core, this time announcing a six-year, $75MM contract for right-hander Spencer Strider. The contract, which covers the 2023-28 seasons, also contains a $22MM club option for the 2029 season. The six-year guarantee buys out Strider’s final two pre-arbitration seasons, all three arbitration years and what would have been his first free-agent season. The 2029 club option gives the Braves control over what would’ve been Strider’s second free-agent campaign. Strider is represented by Frontline.
Strider, 24 later this month, will earn $1MM both in 2023 and 2024. He’ll be paid a $4MM salary in 2025 before jumping to $20MM in 2026 and $22MM in 2027 and 2028. The 2029 option comes with a $5MM buyout, which is factored into the guaranteed portion of the contract. If the Braves pick up that net $17MM option for the ’29 campaign, Strider will earn a total of $92MM over seven years.
Strider becomes the fourth young Braves star to be extended this season alone, joining first baseman Matt Olson (eight years, $168MM), center fielder Michael Harris II (eight years, $72MM) and star third baseman Austin Riley (ten years, $212MM). Atlanta, of course, had previously already signed outfielder Ronald Acuna Jr. and second baseman Ozzie Albies to club-friendly extensions. All six of those players are now under club control through at least the 2027 season, giving the Braves a level of continuity and cost certainty that is unparalleled throughout the league.
A fourth-round gem in the extremely truncated 2020 draft (five rounds), Strider skyrocketed through the Braves’ system despite a lack of minor league games in 2020, ultimately making his Major League debut late in the 2021 season. The Clemson product cracked the Braves’ Opening Day roster in 2022, initially working multi-inning stints out of the bullpen before ascending to the starting staff, where he not only found success but emerged as a bona fide front-of-the-rotation arm.
Overall, Strider broke out with 131 2/3 innings of 2.67 ERA ball and a 38.3% strikeout rate that paced all big leaguers who pitched at least 100 innings. Command was an issue at times in the minors and early in the season, but Strider markedly scaled back on the number of free passes he yielded as the season wore on, finishing out the year with an 8.5% walk rate that was scarcely north of the league average. For someone who walked 13.5% of his opponents over the first two months of the season, the improvement was as remarkable as it was rapid; from June 10 onward, Strider walked just 6.8% of his opponents.
Strider’s dominance has positioned him as one of the two favorites for National League Rookie of the Year honors, as he and teammate Harris are widely viewed as the presumptive first- and second-place finishers in an extremely strong year for rookies (both in the NL and in MLB as a whole).
The $75MM guarantee for Strider shatters any prior precedent for pitchers with such limited experience. Prior to this deal, the five-year, $35MM contract Madison Bumgarner signed with the Giants more than a decade ago stood as the record extension for a pitcher with between one and two years of service time. (Strider is currently at 1.003 years.) This new contract not only finally topples that dated mark (in decisive fashion), it also surpasses the established extension records for pitchers with two to three years of service time (Blake Snell’s five-year, $50MM deal) and even with three to four years of service (Sandy Alcantara’s five-year, $56MM deal).
Because extensions, more so than free-agent contracts, draw heavily from recent comparables, the Strider deal in many ways paves the way for new precedent to be established in multiple service classes. That’s not to say every pitcher with between one and four years of service time will now require $75MM+ to sign an extension, of course; Strider’s case as a Rookie of the Year frontrunner and budding ace is far from the norm.
Nonetheless, as we’ve seen with young position players in recent years, the market for these types of extensions can still advance rapidly. Back when Acuna signed his eight-year, $100MM extension, that was the largest deal ever for a position player with under a year of big league service. That mark was quickly smashed by Wander Franco (11 years, $182MM) and further surpassed this summer by Julio Rodriguez (12 years, $210MM).
With Strider’s salaries now set through the 2028 season, the Braves, incredibly, already have $76MM on the books six years down the line. That’s more than any other team in baseball. The Padres have about $57MM on the ’28 books between Manny Machado and Fernando Tatis Jr., while the Rangers have about $51MM on the books between Corey Seager and Marcus Semien. (Machado can opt out of his deal with the Friars after next year, so the Padres’ 2028 commitments may not end up being quite so large.) Obviously, $76MM in 2028 will carry less weight than $76MM in 2022, but it’s still a hefty commitment to have so far down the line.
There’s some degree of risk for the Braves in laying out such lengthy commitments, even if each looks quite team friendly in a vacuum. Injuries and regression could always push any of these extensions from “bargain” to “burden” — particularly in the later stages of the deals, when the salaries are come with more heft. Still, given the general excellence of this group, it’s impossible not to be bullish on the team’s future.
Looking more immediately down the line, the Braves already have $153MM on next year’s payroll and nearly $110MM on the 2024 payroll. That’s before considering a slate of arbitration-eligible players headlined by lefty Max Fried, who’s projected by MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz to earn more than $12MM in 2023. Atlanta would have a franchise-record payroll in 2023 even if the only moves made by the front office were to simply tender arbitration contracts to their eligible players.
Of course, that’s certainly not all the Braves will do this winter. First and foremost on the agenda will be negotiations with shortstop Dansby Swanson, who’ll be a free agent once the postseason concludes. The Braves and Swanson have publicly expressed mutual interest in a new contract, but getting something done would likely send the Braves soaring over the $200MM mark in terms of their bottom-line payroll while also pushing them into the general vicinity of the first luxury tax threshold for the first time ever. The Braves also surely are still hopeful of extending Fried, who’s controlled through the 2024 season. If they succeed in signing both Swanson and Fried, there’s virtually no path to avoiding the luxury tax.
On the one hand, while contracts like this Strider extension are cause to celebrate in the long-term, they do also create some shorter-term considerations. Strider would’ve only counted around $750K toward the luxury tax in 2023, had he not signed this extension. He’ll instead now carry a sizable $12.5MM luxury hit — the average annual value of his new contract. It’s still a win for both player and team, but the glut of long-term deals does inflate the Braves’ luxury ledger more quickly than a year-by-year approach would.
On the other hand, that’s a trivial concern when juxtaposed with the benefit of having so many high-end players signed for the next six-plus seasons. And with a World Series win in 2021 and another postseason run forthcoming, the NL East-champion Braves will no doubt see a boost to their revenues, lessening the sting of any luxury penalties that may arise in the next couple years. Atlanta already arguably boasted the best cost-controlled core of any team in baseball over the next half decade, and adding Strider to the preexisting quintet of Harris, Olson, Riley, Albies and Acuna only furthers their case. Waves of injuries can derail any team at any time, but health-permitting, the Braves are going to be good for a long, long time.
Braveslifer
Keep ’em coming.
mj-2
This makes 0 sense when the Braves controlled him for 5 years through arb anyway. Use Fried as an example who might make roughly $40 mil through arb in total. So the Braves just paid $35 mil for 1 free agent year of Strider
Very very strange extension
myaccount2
Strider could’ve said arb records
myaccount2
set* I’m not getting an edit button for some reason
bhambrave
We knew what you meant.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
This is irrelevant, this is such a stupid overpay. They just gave him $53M for his 3 arb years. While he had great numbers, it was in 2/3 of a season and I have to believe those strikeouts fall off with general usage and fatigue, while also becoming more hittable as his velo drops and his breaking balls lose shape.
Braveslifer
“Thank god”, the contract was signed today based on his performance this year. If he got close to sniffing free agency, he would have demanded two or three times what we are going to be paying him.
Deadguy
Wonder why they “stupid overpay” for him? He only throws 100 MPH? Let them trade him to the Cardinals for Micheal Mcgreeve then if that’s how you feel. We will gladly take him, throw in 20 million of his salary as well since you feel as though you’ve overpaid for him?
Skell 2
Speak for yourself. I didn’t know what he meant.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Your justification for the contract makes no sense. He is likely to finish 2nd in NL ROY to teammate Michael Harris II, which means both get credited with a full year of service for 2022 regardless of whether they were brought up late or stayed on the roster all season.
Since Strider stayed on the roster the whole year, his ROY placement (1st or 2nd) would only matter in terms of his team being able to add an extra mid-round draft pick for the Braves between the 1st and 2nd rounds as part of the new compensation for keeping top rated players on the roster from opening day forward..
No matter what, Strider is going to bank a full year of service in 2022, for anyone saying he will go to arbitration four times as a Super 2, the only way that would happen is if he sucked so bad in the next two years that he was optioned for 3 weeks to AAA for him to figure stuff out. If that happens this is even worse of a deal than it looks like at first blush.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Not sure what your point is, but throwing 100 mph doesn’t mean crap for a number of reasons, one there are guys like Mauricio Cabrera:, Bruce Rondón, Henry Alberto Rodriguez:, Joel Zumaya:, Tayron Guerrero, Bobby Parnell, who have touched 103 mph and none have made anywhere near that money and all had problems turning velocity into results. Another problem is the harder you throw, the more stress you put on your arm and the more likely you are to get injured. TJ surgery for Munoz, Greene, and almost every other guy to hit 99+ mph. It’s not if Strider has TJ surgery, but when he will have it. Paying for velo in today’s game where everyone throws hard, is like paying $25M/year for Kiermaier to win GGs in CF.
NashvilleJeff
Strider already had TJS while he was still at Clemson. Neither Strider nor Harris II were ranked in the top 100 prospects by the media outlets that MLB is using to qualify rookies for increased service time and teams getting extra draft picks. Isn’t that the first requirement necessary to qualify for the extra service time you’re referencing above?
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Even if Strider had Bob Gipson’s 1968 season or even put up Verlander’s 2022, there is no precedent for this contract. To be totally honest, it’s not the least bit justifiable in any light. So as to illustrate this…
Jacob DeGrom’s arb years: $4M (2017), $7.5M (2018), $17M (2019)
Trevor Bauer’s arb years: $6.5M (2018), $13M (2019), $17.5M (2020)
Noah Syndergaard’s arb years: $3M (2018), $6M (2019), $9.7M x 2 (2020 & 2021)
All of these pitchers threw almost as hard if not equally as hard as Strider, all had varying degrees of success, and none of them even made $40M in arbitration. Have a better case that shows why you would gamble paying $53M for three arb years to save $8M in free agency?
Let’s say Strider goes to every All-Star game for the next 6 years, wins two Cy Young awards, finishes top 10 every other season, and avoids injury. Figuring he sets records all along the way:
$1M (2023)
$1M (2024)
$12M (2025)
$18M (2026)
$25M (2027)
$35M (2028 – FA year)
That’s $57M add his one year of included free agency for $35M ($40M is bridge too far for me, sorry) and you have $92M roughly for 6 years. His option is for $28M instead of $35M (still a stupid number) and suppose this is all true, Then they are taking on 6 years of risk and hoping that he becomes a inner-circle HOF pitcher without injuries over the next 6 years, so they can save $20M on his age 29 and 30 seasons?
The linked article at fangraphs talks about the increased likelihood of TJ surgery as pitch velocity increases, using two reference points for velo, the general takeaway is that 1 in 3 pitchers throwing 96+ mph will need Tommy John surgery between 23 and 25 years old. If that’s true, the Braves would essentially be punting their $20M financial gain on his first FA year and option year. However, there is also a non-zero chance he gets it between 25 and 29 years old, which makes it more like 50-75% likelihood he could need TJ surgery, again removing the benefit of a long-term deal. All of this doesn’t even take into consideration if he’s not an inner-circle HOF pitcher and has a fall off like Trevor Rogers.
community.fangraphs.com/velocity-and-the-likelihoo…
For fans of baseballtradevalues.com, don’t be surprised if he has negative $30M in value by 2025 when he has TJ surgery, misses a year and he’s not quite as successful during his third or fourth pass through the league.
Pads Fans
BTV? LMFAO. Should just stop there because even mentioning that website shows a complete disconnection from reality.
Degrom was 29 in his first arbitration year coming off a season no where near as dominant as Strider. 3.04 ERA 8.7 K/9
Bauer was coming off a season with a 4.19 ERA and had a 4.36 ERA in parts of 6 MLB seasons when he first hit arbitration.
Neither had a season as good as Strider to that point in their careers. Trying to compare the deals those two got to Strider is ludicrous.
Strider will qualify for Super Two, so he will get 4 years of arbitration and if next season is close to 2022 then its going to be between the current first year arb record for a starting pitcher of $9.5 million and Bellinger’s $11.5 million figure.
So start 4 years of arbitration at $9-10 million. That 4th year is going to be around $30 million and his FA is going to be more than that.
As of January 2022, 23% of starting pitchers in MLB and 26% of all pitchers have had TJ surgery. Strider has an 77% chance of avoiding it. You are going in with an assumption that he will absolutely get it. Not a smart bet.
And don’t link to 7 year old articles.
User 401527550
You didn’t just say Strider was better then Degrom and Bauer. Strider has two pitches and has started for 2/3 of a season. He already missed a month due to injury. Why do Braves fans act like he just had the best rookie season ever? He was real good but let’s not get carried away with how good he is.
Deleted Userr
Using multiple accounts on the same thread shows a much bigger disconnection from reality.
NashvilleJeff
Strider’s the first pitcher in MLB history to strike out over 200 hitters (202 K’s) and give up less than 100 hits (86.) That’s more than just the “best rookie season ever.” You’re the one who seems to be “carried away” w/your attempts to belittle Strider.
User 401527550
Golden struck out 276 in his rookie campaign. LOL best rookie season ever. Good thing you waited until Strider got lit up in playoffs to respond.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
It’s a general reference for trade values. They are off on a lot of things, feel free too look me up, the site owner hates me for calling him out. Look on baseballtradevalues.com, read their article on justifying Soto’s value and how I criticized it before he was traded to the Padres and my calculations were almost dead on value. Without me teaching you how trade valuations are correctly built, I can’t debate with because I think so, I have to explain how I got that answer.
It’s a lot easier to reference someone who is about 70-80% of the way there. Most of his miscalculations are trigger happy overreactions to common slumps and overvaluing prime players, because he doesn’t realize the extra value he’s trying to quantify is the consistency they bring in being a star player. For instance, John Blitzer tried saying Soto was worth almost $200M in excess value for 2.5 seasons, while still paying him $60M in salary.
My point was that Soto would be worth at best $140M in excess value, he tried justifying the $200M by saying it was the premium for trading for a star. My response was, him being a star just makes it worth risking the $140M in assets! I wouldn’t just throw around $140M in proven assets for $140M in prospects. That’s the reverse logic he was trying to calculate for, but that doesn’t make sense!
By the way, don’t tell me what to I can or can’t link to for reference, furthermore, people don’t rewrite the same theories every year! If you don’t like my reference, find a better one to contradict my point!
You sound like you have a community college education in accounting. Love numbers, very structured, feel a level of entitlement with your degree, but your education built knowledge in a subsection of society that doesn’t resonate with people outside your industry, so you come off like a pompous no-it-all, but really you have no true foundational advanced level education to help you structure arguments or support your statements!
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
HE WILL NOT GET SUPER 2!!!
He will finish the year with exactly ONE FULL YEAR OF SERVICE!!
He will finish next year with exactly TWO FULL YEARS OF SERVICE!!
If he doesn’t get a full year of service next season, it is because he sucked or he was suspended by the league for performance enhancing substances, lawsuits or criminal issues! Time on the injured list doesn’t cut into a player’s service time, neither does short-term bereavement, COVID, or concussion protocols!
SUPER 2 RULE
To qualify for the Super Two designation, players must rank in the top 22 percent, in terms of service time, among those who have amassed between two and three years in the Majors. The specific cutoff date varies on a year-to-year basis.
Typical cutoff is around 125-145 days into the season!
But all of that is irrelevant, if he starts pitching like he did in Game 3 of the NLDS!! I wouldn’t be surprised if he was pitching injured. That 94 mph fastball to Rhys Hoskins is that danger more than 3 mph difference in velo from normal, which is to say, he usually sits 97-98, touching 100 and dropping as low as 96. Getting to 94 is almost 7 mph slower than his typical top fastball. That’s worrisome! Especially when guys are more amped in their first MLB playoff game!
NashvilleJeff
If you’re going to belittle someone while claiming to have knowledge of their inferior educational level, you should probably try spelling your insults correctly. Know it all…..not “no-it-all.” Imo, you made a reasonable case for your trade evaluation w/out the amateur psychological evaluation. Generally not a fan of BTV’s valuations, and your comment that the site is a “general reference for trade values” followed by “They are off on a lot of things” is a solid reason why I believe the site shouldn’t be used as a factual source.
NashvilleJeff
Strider’s been out for close to a month recovering from a mild oblique strain. He touched 101 early in the outing. His decline in velocity at the end of his outing may just be a conditioning issue due to his inactivity.
Deleted Userr
Now ask him why he comments as Pads Fans and BaseballIsLife!
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
In a time in baseball when contact is of the least importance and shifts were used at an all-time high, why players refused to adjust to defensive alignments. Sure, but yeah, let’s compare his hit totals today which rewards the Rob Deers of the world versus Ty Cobbs’ and George Sislers’ era where whole teams hit 15-25 homeruns in a season. This is one time a record truly means nothing.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Spellcheck losers are awesome, sorry you missed the pun. As in a guy that says no to everything that people tell them. It’s called creative license. From one English major to another, genius!
braves95 2
His arb years were going to be absurdly expensive. They potentially saved a lot of money
Steve Adams
Even if you think Strider will break arb records annually, they wouldn’t have been absurdly expensive. You can project him to approach or even set some combination of Arb1, Arb2 and Arb3 records, and Strider would still probably come in under $50MM — and that’s assuming health and sustained dominance.
It’s an expensive extension by prior standards, but as I noted in the finalized version of our breakdown, the prior standards were beyond antiquated. I would imagine the MLBPA, other pitchers around the league, and the agents that represent those pitchers are all thrilled to see this contract.
Doesn’t make it a bad deal for the team, either. They still unquestionably saved on Strider’s first two free-agent years, provided he remains healthy. Five years from now, a 28-year-old top-of-the-rotation pitcher in free agency will probably be getting $40MM+ per year. They control his first two FA years for somewhere in the range of $40-50MM total, depending how aggressively you want to project his arb numbers — and only one of the two years is even guaranteed.
It’s a win all around.
mj-2
All I see is people talking about record setting arb numbers without providing examples with any math.
So I’ll do another one for you since you didn’t like my Fried example.
Let’s go Juan Soto. 2 top 5 MVP finishes before his first 2 arb seasons. He made $8 mil last year and $17 mil this year. That’s $25 mil. Let’s say $30 mil for year 3. So now we have $55 mil.
Obviously if it went that route the Braves win this by a bit, maybe $10 mil in their favor by the end of it roughly.
But how good is this example? We’re talking about a position player who finished top 5 MVP both seasons leading into the arb years. I’m pretty sure these always lean more favorably to position players. So does anyone think Strider will match Soto arb numbers? It’s possible but I wouldn’t go as far as to say it’s likely.
Id be shocked if Strider made more than $45 mil over the next 5 years in total if we let this all play out.
Factor in the Braves are assuming all of the risk he’ll continue to pitch at an elite level for 5 straight years to top it off, which is no guarantee. Soto himself did not have a top 5 MVP finish this year for example.
Lanidrac
It very well could be a bad deal for his team if he can’t continue the level of dominance he showed this year or has constant injury problems. If he’s just a flash in the pan, this contract will hurt the Braves badly from 2026 to 2028.
If you’re going to give out a big extension like this, you should wait until after he’s played three years or at least two to make sure he’s for real, especially if you’re only getting one or two free agent years in exchange.
Braves83
From Ivan the Great:
The standard Super Two pay scale for him for his remaining years is:
$0.7M (league minimum)
~$9M (Super Two, Arb1)
~$15M (Arb2)
~$22M (Arb3)
~$31M (Arb4)
All of this assumes he basically pitches like this year (not a full season, but elite performance) going forward.
If you add those up, you get $77M. The Braves paid him $75M. So basically they guaranteed his arbitration scale in exchange for an extra year, with an option for another year for more money. Essentially they trade the risk that he gets hurt and produces nothing in one or more years for the “free” first free agent year, and the discounted second free agent year assuming he’s healthy.
Lanidrac
First of all, he’s not a Super Two candidate, and even if he was, the Braves would have another year of control to where he wouldn’t be a free agent until after 2028. However, he already has slightly more than a full year of service time.
Second, that’s only the top end scale. Most likely, he wouldn’t get anywhere near that much in arbitration.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
You don’t pay max arb prices to save $8M. While Steve offers a hypothesis of free agent years costing $40M or more annually, the reality is Scherzer may be the best pitcher of his generation, Kershaw and Verlander included and his $40M was clearly an overpay, evem on a short deal. The Gerrit Cole contract ($36M/year) is looking to become an albatross on the backend and we have to remember the cost to live in New York is crazy high, so even a parallel deal in most cities would be 10-20% cheaper. That means his annual salary isn’t even going to be justifiable when factoring in the cost of living! It’ll be a long time before someone gets a deal over $35M/yr and 7-years long.
bhambrave
He’s definitely Super Two. He started the season in Atlanta.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
First, he wouldn’t qualify for Super 2 if he’s 2nd in NL ROY voting. You are also assuming he doesn’t fall off a cliff statistically like Trevor Rogers this year where he went from a 2.64 ERA to 5.47 ERA or for the analytical types he went from a 2.55 FIP (2021) to 4.36 FIP (2022).
The point isn’t whether this ends up being a bad deal, it’s that it follows bad process. It assumes continued success after only 130 IP in the majors, it assumes zero regression, it assumes increase arb records at every level, it assumes higher investments on pitchers which is trending away from that since all starters are facing TJ surgery at least once in their career.
But most importantly it sets bad precedent for the rest of the league for one team to save a few million dollars. I’d lose my crap if Seattle paid Kirby that much and he may have the best control since Greg Maddux with Smoltz level velo.
The estimates above are crazy. Sure Ks make more money, but his control years should be as follows if he doesn’t fall off at all:
2023: minimum
2024: minimum
2025: $9-10M
2026: $14-15M
2027: $20-22M
That’s $47M making his free agent year more like $28M with a $22M option.
By comparison the Mariners sign Castillo at roughly $22M/year with a $5M option if he needs TJ surgery in the last 3 years with 80% of the contract covering FA years and coming with a similar option year.
MyCommentIsBetter
He will fall off before he ever gets those ‘record’ numbers. We’ve seen PLENTY of great rookie seasons by SP and most of the time they don’t last 3 more years of that elite level.
Pads Fans
He was on the major league roster all season. He is definitely a Super Two candidate.
If he continues to play as h did in his rookie season, he would absolutely be at the top of the scale.
bucsfan0004
Love the hugely inaccurate arb numbers by posters on here. Still waiting to see the projection where two arb years are the same, factoring in the obligatory TJ surgery
Pads Fans
Contracts are not based on the back end, they area based on value as a whole. That is why teams are willing to pay huge dollars for seasons they know will not offer the same performance as the earlier years.
When multiple players including likely Judge, Turner, and Correa surpass 7 years with a $35 MM AAV will you come back and say you were wrong?
Pads Fans
If he is 2nd in ROY he gets huge bonuses and STILL qualifies for Super Two.
JackStrawb
@MJ You’ve omitted a year of Soto’s arbitration.
He could easily see $17m, 2om after this down year, then 28m. That’s 65m, plus his first 3 years. Put those around 4m for a typical, good player, making it.$69m for Strider’s first 6 seasons. If Strider’s arb awards are similar, the Braves are then getting his 2 FA years for 26m, total, without having to buy a long deal including Strider’s decline. That’s worth roughly $54m, if you can even buy a prime age #1 starter for 2 years. Look what Gerrit Cole was able to get. What would 2 years of Cole cost, instead of 9/324m? 2/100m?
They even got an opt out in the form of a cheap buyout if he crashes prior to his last year the Braves control. Good deal for both sides.
JackStrawb
@Lanidrac It’s very unlikely to “hurt the Braves badly,” since short of catastrophic injury (for which they’ll probably have insurance) they’d be keeping him around anyway, shepherding him through TJ should that happen, paying arb awards, collecting insurance.
So say he has an impingement, needs surgery, and turns into a 4 ERA SP who goes 120 innings a year—about the worst case for a dominant 23 year old. Over the next 6 years you’d probably end up paying him $40m anyway, making the cost of your gamble roughly $40m, since presumably you’re paying the buy out in 2029.
That’s an unlikely worst case for a phenomenal SP, but it’s there. It happens, occasionally. The idea that getting only modest performance for $20m in the last 3 years of the deal will hurt the Braves much at all, though, doesn’t follow. They already have the best cost control in baseball. Worst case for Strider is close to what happened with Charlie Morton this year, and guess what? The Braves stepped up and want Morton to do it again, for $20m. They lost Acuna and won a WS. This year they got a weak season from Acuna, and they won 101 games and the division
People don’t seem to understand just how good Strider’s peripherals are. One BB fewer per 9 and he’s right around peak Jacob deGrom. You take risks to lock down his first 2 years of FA.
Pads Fans
You have? Name guys that did as well as Strider.
Pads Fans
Soto put up an .853 OPS and 149 OPS+. Top 10 hitter in baseball. He is going to see a huge raise to around $25 million this offseason.
Then he will still have one more arb year after that.
Strider will have one pre-arb year then 4 arb seasons. If he performs in 2023 like he did in 2022, which was off the charts great, then it would be reasonable to expect similar numbers to what Soto got in years one and two.
Even if you assume he will get less than Soto for whatever reason, then $7+mm, $14+mm, $22+mm, and $30+mm is extremely reasonable. I will let you do the math.
The Braves are getting 2 years of FA for $44 million total. Strider will absolutely get a raise from his last arbitration year, so even a modest raise means the Braves save $20 ++ million in those two seasons alone.
Lanidrac
Yes, he started the season, which means he already has a full year of service time. Super Two only applies when they have at least approximately 2/3 of a year of service time but less than a full season to where the team gets almost seven years of control (like the infamous Kris Bryant example) instead of slightly over six as in Strider’s case.
Lanidrac
That’s only free agent contracts. Early career extensions are designed to give the team a discount and especially not overpay for their arbitration years.
Lanidrac
Inigo Montoya: You keep using that term, “Super Two.” It doesn’t mean what you think it means.
Lanidrac
No, they’d be paying him much less than $40M over his arbitration years if he devolves into a 4.00 ERA pitcher., which is far from the worst case scenario for a pitcher who has only a dominant rookie year to date.
That’s pretty much the point: Those arbitration payouts are only worth it at about a 95%+ projection of his future value, whereas they should be paying close to the 50% projection if even that much.
Besides, they could just as easily lock up those years of free agency at a somewhat higher but much less risky price by just waiting a year or two to make sure he’s for real. If Strider is willing to take an extension now, he should be just as willing to do so again after another great year or two.
User 401527550
Matt Harvey was better at this stage of his career. Worst case scenario is he becomes Matt Harvey.
C Yards Jeff
Lengthy extensions to position players I get. To an SP, well, it seems awfully risky.
flamingbagofpoop
He doesn’t even need to have constant injury problems. Missing 1 season’s worth of games over the length of it (this doesn’t seem that hard to imagine with pitchers being pitchers) makes this go from ok to bad real quick.
NashvilleJeff
How do you know what he’ll “be just as willing to do”? You don’t. You also don’t know whether he took the extension in order to lock up significant money, as a hedge against injury, or because he and his agent wanted to advance pitcher salaries for others. He’s a big union guy. This seems like something the MLBPA would endorse. Doubt there’s one single reason that either the Braves or Strider decided this was the best course of action other than it benefits both parties.
SamtheMan!
Cost of living adjustments are more for your average person. Not a guy making upwards of 20MM a year.
SamtheMan!
Eh.
Pitchers arm injuries are a real risk to wipe out a season or two.
Imagine if they would’ve locked up Soroka. Would’ve been a massive overpay.
This was a pretty high gamble on the risk/reward scale. But Won’t cripple the team either way & theyve locked up a young core.
They’re in 10000x better position than anyone in that division to be a long term competitor, for sure
rememberthecoop
“On the other hand…” ha ha
C Yards Jeff
Strong post NashvilleJ: thanks for mentioning the “agent” relationship angle. Not sure who he /them is/are, but I betcha Freddie wishes he would’ve had him/them last off season.
NashvilleJeff
Thought I was being clear there C Yards. Sorry for the confusion. “He” is Strider. “They” are the agents that rep him. The mlbtr article mentioned that his agency is Frontline. FF fired his agent. Think he’s still representing himself.
Sid Bream Speed Demon
Mets698622(LOL on the 22), Harvey was in no way better than Strider at this stage of his career.
User 401527550
Yes a 2.67 ERA is better then a 2.27 ERA. Harvey was highly regarded as top prospect while Strider was considered middle reliever until may. Strider has two pitches.
jimthegoat
If he spent the whole season on the major league roster he is definitely NOT a Super Two. A Super Two is in the top 22 percent (in terms of service time not performance) of all players in their service class during the offseason that they have at least 2 but less than 3 years of service time. If he spent all of 2022 in the majors then assuming he doesn’t get sent down at all next year he will have exactly 2 years of service time after 2023. That will fall far short of the top 22 percent.
For reference, Kris Bryant was a lock to be a Super Two because he finished 2017 with 2 years and 171 days of service time. So he was arb eligible for the first time during the same offseason that he would have been eligible if the Cubs never manipulated his service time. The difference is he was arb eligible a fourth time after 2020 rather than being a free agent outright.
bhambrave
He actually has only three days in 2021, so he’ll be close to the bottom of his class.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
That’s conjecture, you stating what his arb years would or wouldn’t be considering the volatility of pitchers, players with less than two years of major league experience, players with less than 150 major league innings, and who have barely seen each team once, when pitching has the advantage over hitting when neither has faced each other.
You are making a lot of wild assumptions. The only thing accurate is the potentially, saved, and money. The “lot of” before money is hopeful at best. There is nothing historically to say that even if they were absurdly expensive compared to other pitchers that it would even match what he was promised.
Finally, the greater likelihood is that he probably won’t be good enough to outplay what he was given because it was a dramatic overpay by a team that believes pitching will see a steep uptick in annual salary and their stupid contract with Strider is a self-fulfilling prophecy that will probably move the needle 10% across baseball due to this stupid deal.
It will leave many teams overpaying for pitching and when those arms get injured, most teams will selloff because they won’t be able to go to the well and sign another $30M free agent to replace their ace who is gone for 18 months while recovering from surgery.
There is a reason pitchers are not given long term deals because it is more risky than giving those deals to hitters because of injury and even then, the hitters rarely justify the extensions.
This deal will be the one people talk about for 10-20 years as the contract that forced bidding wars for starting pitchers. This is going to be the Kevin Brown deal that literally changed the market in a day.
jimthegoat
@bhambrave If you don’t know what “Super Two” means don’t try to talk about which players are or aren’t one.
jimthegoat
@Pads Fans Him being on the roster all year actually means he WON’T be a Super Two. He will finish 2023 with 2 years and 3 days of service time… not even close to the top 22% of players in his class. Now if the Braves had “Kris Bryanted” Strider he would have finished 2024 with just under 3 years of service time and would have been a Super Two that offseason, not the 23-24 offseason.
But since they extended him this is obviously all moot.
jimthegoat
If he is 2nd in ROY he is credited with a full year of service so he definitely would NOT be a Super Two.
Pads Fans
Those numbers are very reasonable. You do need to add a year of FA to that because 6 years takes them through his first year of FA.
$35 million is reasonable figure for FA. They paid $75 million for $102 million worth of his services based on your numbers.
Pads Fans
You need to check your info. Strider will qualify for Super Two.
Pads Fans
Matt Harvey had a higher ERA and lower K/9 and higher BB/9 in his first season. He also only had 10 starts. Strider has been significantly better than Harvey so far.
jimthegoat
Au contraire it is you who needs to check their info. But not to worry, I did that for you. From the official MLB site:
To qualify for the Super Two designation, players must rank in the top 22 percent, in terms of service time, among those who have amassed between two and three years in the Majors.
Strider finished this year with a year and 3 days of service time. If he is not sent down in 2023 he will finish 2023 with 2 years and 3 days of service time. That is between 2 and 3 years. But it would certainly not be enough to be among the top 22 percent of players in that class (the lowest the Super Two cutoff has been since 2009 is 2 years and 115 days after 2019). The earliest Strider could have been arb eligible was after 2024.
Now stand in the corner and think about what you’ve learned today.
User 401527550
Well strider pitched last year too. That’s why you compare first full season and Harvey was a lot better.
NashvilleJeff
Mets 6986: Three days at season’s end and 2.1 innings pitched by Strider in 2021. Just a “cup of coffee at the ML level. Saying that “strider pitched last year too” as the focal point of your comparison is disingenuous.
User 401527550
You are comparing Harvey’s call up as a full season is disingenuous. I’ll I know is Harvey dominated in playoffs and Strider just got lit up.
Deleted Userr
Was Strider ever partially responsible for a teammate’s death?
User 401527550
Huh? What’s that got to do with anything in this conversation. I used Harvey as a buyer beware caution notice. Now you all getting upset because Harvey was better then Strider at his stage of his career.
NashvilleJeff
No I said you’re disingenuous because you’re trying to use the 2 1/3 ML inning pitched by Strider as a full season comp to Harvey.
User 401527550
I was comparing their first full seasons. Nothing disingenuous about that.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Actually, you are totally wrong. Because of their long-term deals, they are already approaching their cap limit and for that reason will only be able to add Swanson or a frontline pitcher like DeGrom. They average the length of the deal. Signing Strider screwed their budget for no good reason. If they would have waited to sign him for two years, it would’ve made less than a $10M difference in his contracts at most, but it would have given the team an extra $20M to spend before hitting the cap.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
To expand on your thoughts, which I agree with completely, there is a reason a hitter and a pitcher have different projected values as prospects, despite having the same ranking overall and the same overall future value. The reason is pitchers are volatile. 5-to-1 Strider has TJ surgery again in the next 5 years. He’s not 6’5 and 230 lbs. A pitcher with arm troubles will usually have some for of trouble again and that volatility is increased exponentially by the stature of the pitcher. Bigger pitchers hold up better, thicker pitchers hold up better. Short and skinnier pitchers don’t hold up well, as a general rule.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
That’s not the point Banjo Billy, If he’s not willing to extend again in a year, well awww shucks! The reality is you should get a 20% discount on the overall value of what they project at today. His great year does not guarantee future success as he has not sustained it for nearly long enough. Additionally,
Corbin Burnes is entering his 5th full season and 2nd pass through arbitration, which is only projected to pay him $11.3M. Considering Burnes won a Cy Young and has had a microscopic ERA for three straight seasons with a career FIP of 2.85, that’s probably the 85 percentile of Strider reaching his potential, IF you buy into one season of work and think he’s a generational pitcher. If you think he deserves his contract, you are as tone-def as you are capable of catching a pun!
If you agree, than stop knit-picking what everyone else says. It doesn’t benefit both parties, Alex A. is a moron that has signed so many extensions that even with all the great deals he got done, the average $$$ is pushing $180M after only 15 of the contracts. They might not be able to re-sign Swanson because of this deal adding $15M to the cap due to his cap adjusted salary and if they do, they no longer can pursue DeGrom or another big named pitcher.
The point of early extensions is to create financial flexibility, not to lock yourself into just a few core players. He hasn’t even extended Fried yet, and this reeks of him knee-jerking his reaction to Fried probably not wanting to talk about extensions and him wishing he would’ve done something a couple years ago. Fried is also entering his 5th full season but his 3rd arb year and he’s set to make $12.2M for an All-Star appearance, 2 GG, 1 SS, and a career FIP of 3.30.
So obviously the imaginary extra year of arb isn’t getting us anywhere near. even $50M. Fried’s totals so far are $3.5M, $6.85M, and a potential $12.2M, which is $22.5M in arbitration through three passes at this point. It’s also worth noting that Fried might take the offer Strider just got as a giant slap in the face since he’s been leading the rotation for years and won a WS for Atlanta, while Strider hasn’t even pitched enough innings to qualify for the ERA title.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Really? Says who? You? Players use that as a bargaining tactic all the time. If they are playing in New York, they ask the team to pay their apartment rent or to finance the home they live in, they get extra money to offset the taxes. If the Rangers offer $250M to live in Texas with no state income tax, that saves as much as 5-10% off the top,
So saying a player pays 30% federal tax. That’s $75M gone off the top, bringing their net total to $175M.If that same deal gets signed in New York, you can take extra $25M off. So $250M from a team in Texas is worth $175M, while the offer from the Yankees or Mets for $250M is worth only $150M due to the tax difference.
As for real estate, go check the difference. In Texas, the nicest home I can find in the Dallas area is 20,000 sq ft for $14M. The nicest condos in New York with less than half that sq. ft. is going for $60M+. So yeah, cost of living is a factor. I have even heard that the team holds onto properties in the New York area to rent to players to keep it affordable for them to live near the park.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
If he reaches his potential, sure if you want to believe that, but not on a long-term deal for a 30-year-old pitcher. For that to be a reasonable number requires him to stay healthy for the whole contract, which would lower his free agent value as it would almost assuredly mean he will have some form of arm injury. The only way this deal makes sense is if he becomes an inner-circle Hall-of-Fame pitcher who is the greatest pitcher of our generation. Great point about Matt Harvey and didn’t he have an arm injury? Brilliant.
If he has any hope of living up to this contract, Strider will have to play the whole year on the MLB roster for 2023 without injuries. If that happens, he will have 2 years and 3 days of service time. The Super 2 status means more than 2 year and less than 3 years. So the only time he could qualify for Super 2 status is after 2023,
HOWEVER, because he will only have 2 years and 3 days, he will not be in the top 22% of service time for guys with more than 2 years and less than 3 years. A year ago, the Super 2 status was set a 2 years and 116 days, which is about normal, even low in recent years with most Super 2 status cutoffs falling in the 130s. But if we are anywhere near the same cutoff after next season that we were after 2021, Strider will miss Super 2 status by 110 days roughly or almost 4 months of being on the roster.
Read the article, be not thought of as a moron or an imbecile who is led by his ignorance and unwillingness to gain knowledge, which should be pursued despite the clear lack of capacity for you to store in in your brain!
mlbtraderumors.com/2021/11/super-two-status-set-at…
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Worst example ever!
Corbin Burnes going into year 5, second arb season (1 year of control after 2023) is due to make $11.3M in his second to last trip through arbitration. He was not a Super 2, but posted an insane 2.85 FIP for his career with a Cy Young, 2 All-Star season, and 4 of 5 seasons with an ERA under 3.00. Career earnings will be less than $20M for his first full 5 seasons in the majors. His service time was at 2 years and 49 days and he did not qualify for Super 2.
Max Fried who was a Super 2 player is going into year 5, third arb season (1 year of control after 2023) is due to make $12.2M in his second to last trip through arbitration an will have earned a grand total of $22.5M through 5 years. He has only 1 All-Star appearance, 2 Gold Gloves, and 1 Silver Slugger. His service time was at 2 years and 148 days when he qualified for a difference of 145 days of service when a full season is 172 days.
The only way this deal makes sense is if Burnes and Fried get paid over $75M between their final arb year and their first two years of Free Agency. Even then, Strider still has to match two of the best young pitchers in the game over the next 5 years to even have that conversation, which is not likely. Ask Trevor Rogers who faceplanted in 2022.
Considering the current model, I wouldn’t bank on $20M coming from the final arb year and that leaves $27.5M/year for the two free agent seasons. That’s great, except he still has to win a Cy Young, get multiple All-Star games, and or win Gold Gloves. Those two pitchers both took home multiple pieces of hardware.
To my point, if we aren’t sure Friend and Burnes will make $27.5M, why would anyone guarantee it to a rookie with next to no track record, when the over is so little. I mean I wouldn’t even extend a player if they are going to get 85% or more of their contract by going year to year. The volatility is too high.
NashvilleJeff
Thank_ God: “The correct sentence structure you should have put is…..” Try “used” instead of “put.” “Elude”….? Are you trying to evade someone or are you incapable of understanding the difference between “elude” and allude. Google elude. You’ll find that it’s a similar sounding word to allude. The next time you attempt to impersonate a teacher, use of correct grammar and word definition might lessen your chance of being subjected to ridicule and the embarrassing eyerolls from those subjected to your pompous bloviations. Is your life so empty that you pore over comments in three week old articles in search of targets for your insults? In your case, the “look that you should recognize for all the times you see it with that kind of personality” is disgust followed by derisive laughter. I’m confident you’ve been subjected to it countless times. I don’t mute your kind, but I won’t bother reading your insult laden rants in the future.
Steve Adams
They have his first two free-agent years — one locked in and the other as a club option.
Lanidrac
Yes, they get one or two free agent years in exchange, but that’s not enough to make up for those heavily expensive arb years in the deal. They should’ve gotten at least 3 guaranteed free agent years plus an option year for that kind of heavy payout, and even then it’s unnecessarily risky for the team compared to other early career extensions.
YaySports
Actually they did.. You’re ignoring he’s going to be Top 3 in the ROY so he’s going to get granted an extra year of service time. He easily would have been a Super 2 as well. The only way he wouldn’t is with a long demotion next year.
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
I absolutely love the Strider extension. The contention window is wide open for years now. Next up resign Dansby. If you look at the Braves team what they have done extremely well is develop players. They also made a couple great trades getting future star players that wear near MLB ready (Dansby/Fried). I cannot wait for the Braves/Phillies series to start in a few hours. Almost everyone gave up on the Braves when they were 10.5 games back in the NL East. These guys are gamers.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Its a horrible deal, set your expectations to hate it now, so you are less annoyed in 3 years.
Yankee Clipper
I could be mistaken on this because I don’t follow the Braves as closely as you all do; but it seems to me that part of this is AA’s (or Braves) intent on establishing the players relationship through goodwill too – for the future. I know it’s a business, but much like the Cardinals, the Braves seem to focus more than other clubs on the relational side with their players, thereby giving the Braves an edge over other teams during the respective player’s FA, if the Braves should choose to being said player back.
Again, perhaps I’m wrong, it’s my outsider’s perspective. I also think that’s one reason Freeman was so guilt-ridden, or whatever, about not returning when he had the chance.
JoeBrady
establishing the players relationship through goodwill too – for the future.
===========================
I agree. I think there is some advantage, that doesn’t show up on the balance sheet, when you lock in your young players. These guys are used to winning together, and I would expect that to continue.
User 401527550
Their window didn’t change with this signing. He wasn’t going any where for at least five years. Fried is the one you need locked up.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
I mean this in total sincerity, if you love this deal, you should never manage a real team, let alone budget your own finances personally. In fact, you should not make a purchase without a calculator, a phone call to a certified public accountant, and night courses in math at the local community college.
This is the opposite of the Acuna and Albies deals, this wasn’t just stupid for the Braves, it will hurt every small market team who will no longer be able to lock up their young players to team friendly deals, so they can remain competitive. This might be the worst extension overpay I have ever seen.
I would give this contract a 5% chance of paying off for the Braves due to injury risk, statistical volatility, x-factor changes in both personal life and professional baseball. There are so many reasons this could go bad and we aren’t even talking about the new pitch clock, the pickoff throw rules, and other changes to the game itself.
bhambrave
Fried wasn’t this good out of the gate. His first full year starting he had a 4.02 ERA.
User 401527550
And Fried is the one you need to worry about locking up.
RubexCube1
You are probably not accounting for the adjustments with the new CBA. Strider is going to bonuses left and right which wouldve added to his arb numbers if he went that route
mj-2
That’s fair. I don’t know anything about bonuses with adjustments made to the new CBA. What exactly do those look like? Genuinely curious.
mj-2
Ok I quickly read up on the bonus pool from the new CBA
That’s totally irrelevant here. It’s a league funded thing that every team will chip into $1.66 mil regardless.
Yeah Strider might get bonuses but it wouldn’t be coming from the Braves, it would be coming from the league as a whole. The Braves pay their 1.66 mil per season regardless for that.
bhambrave
@MJ: If you look at it from Strider’s perspective, he’d be making a lot more money, regardless of where it comes from. The Braves have to account for that in their offer.
KamKid
I’m curious how the bonuses would impact arbitration. Would an arbitrator just look at a base salary as the springboard for a raise, or would they consider the bonuses as part of the salary when making those decisions? I’d assume the player has a good argument for the latter. That could really escalate the arb figures. Kind of like the super 2 guys getting that fourth arb year.
Lanidrac
He wouldn’t get anywhere near the same amount of extra money in bonuses, and that’s assuming he remains good enough to get additional bonuses after this year.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
A bonus is a bonus. It wouldn’t be fair to the rest of the players. Union before player, always.
User 401527550
Everything can be considered in arbitration.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
CBA has no affect on arb money because the union wouldn’t let a segment of their members benefit in terms of general contract negotiations. It’s one thing to find a new way to add money for the young guys, its another to say Julio Rodriguez should get a bigger 1st arb year because he was better two years ago. Talent and stats should already give a higher floor, they aren’t going to double that for the Julios, Adleys, and Spencers of the world.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Long-term extensions do not preclude a player from getting those bonus pool dollars pre-arbitration. Julio Rodriguez is still going to get a bonus pool increase in his annual pay for his All-Star game appearance, his HR derby appearance, his ROY award, and any other accolade he gets, regardless of his contract. Same is true for Strider, this deal doesn’t include or exclude those pre-arb bonuses.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
They won’t because the union won’t allow it to only benefit a segment of the members.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Wrong bonuses are aside from the yearly contracts and have nothing to do with arbitration contracts either in setting the floor or adding to the annual amount. It is purely a way to get extra money in the hands of 0-3 year service time players who are not arbitration eligible and subject to receiving the league minimum.
Julio Rodriguez still gets money for finishing 2nd in the HR Derby, gets money for being an All-Star, more money for being the Rookie of the Year, more money for probably winning a Silver Slugger, and then more money based on how much of the total rookie WAR was made up of his nearly 5.5 to 6 WAR season (they have their own calculator for WAR that is not exactly like fWAR or bWAR).
So by the time he’s done, the new 0-3 money will end up going in large part to him, Raleigh, Strider, Harris II, and Rutschman. The remaining $20-25M will be shared with the rest of the guys who aren’t arb. eligible. The point being that the new CBA has ZERO effect on arbitration.
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
@ice. I really hope Dansby is extended and I think he will (he’s a local guy and by all accounts loves being a Brave). Shewmake is about ready though and they could sign a veteran cheap to platoon with him or just keep Dansby and use Shewmake as trade bait. I see Grissom in the outfield with Harris/Acuna next year. I’m sure I’ll get roasted with comments on letting Shewmake run with SS but I’m trying to be reasonable. This is a big market spending club unfortunately…
Deleted Userr
And Clayton Kershaw was going to sign with the Rangers cuz he’s a local guy. And Gerrit Cole with the Angels. And Patrick Corbin with the Yankees. And… And…
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Gerrit Cole was a Yanks fan growing up, nobody with any knowledge ever though L.A. was really an option.
Deleted Userr
The dudes who write for this site were linking Cole to the Angels.
MyCommentIsBetter
The Yankees have the fattest wallets, anywhere but NY wasn’t really an option…
NashvilleJeff
Not going to “roast” you on Sewmake, Mercenary, but imo there’s no possibility of him being considered as a viable replacement for Swanson. Shewmake’s going to be lucky to carve out a career as a utility player for a 2nd Division team. The Braves have zero middle infield prospects on their top 4 mil teams. It’s Swanson or bust for them. Can’t believe that AA lets him leave. Braves don’t even have enough to trade for a SS. Every FA in Swanson’s class is going to be more expensive than he will. Going to be stunned if AA downgrades at SS w/their current competitive excellence at all other positions except left field.
User 1413108128
Well that settles it then!
JackStrawb
MFF — thing is, for Swanson the Braves aren’t going to go near what he’ll be offered elsewhere. Does he love ATL to the tune of forgoing, say, $50 million?
The Braves don’t seem to pay for peak seasons from post-prime age players, especially not at SS, which is about the easiest position to put a cheap, 2 WAR floor under, given fielding peaks in player’s early 20s. Rich teams have figured this out. Well, the rich smart teams. The dumb ones, like the Alderson-Eppler-Cohen Mets, traded 11 rWAR worth of MI for the privilege of giving Lindor $363m over 11 seasons because, as usual, they couldn’t see what was right in front of them.
I’d bet serious coin Swanson won’t give up the money some GM who still believes in career years will throw at him.
User 401527550
He would have gone there if the contract offer was higher. He didn’t go to the Yankees because he was a Yankee fan.
.
Yep. Angels were very much in the running for Cole.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
How’d that one play out? Just cause they run this site doesn’t mean they have some secret gift to know where players will sign and I never had a doubt he was headed there, since he was a Pirate. Cole has stated since he was in UCLA that he was a Yankee fan and wanted to be in pinstripes when he grew up, he was even drafted by the Yankees and chose college ball, but said it was a tough choice and hoped he’d end up there eventually.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
They were wrong, clearly. Research when he was drafted by the Yankees coming out of High School. It was a tough choice passing on the Yankees, but he wanted to experience college. It was that year I knew he’d be a douchebag for being a Yankee bandwagoner in SoCal.
dirty617water
$1MM for each of the ‘23 and ‘24 season is a bargain. Take Ohtani’s arb for an example, $30MM for next season. AA is saving money collectively and signing his core players. Just need to sign Vaughn, Fried, and Wright to extensions. GM of the year imo.
Lanidrac
He would’ve made around $1M per pre-arbitration year in ’23 and ’24, anyway. In any case, that’s not one of the issues with this contract.
NashvilleJeff
Sign Grissom to an extension? Ugh. Why pay him more than the ML minimum he’s going to get next season (if he even makes the ML roster)? He may spend the season in AAA trying to learn how to play defense. Grisssom’s a likely utility player or trade chip. He hasn’t proven he can hit or play competent Ml defense. He definitely can’t play 2B, and doubt he’s any better at SS. Does he hit enough to play left field? Very much doubt it. His slap happy approach at the plate seems very much at odds w/the Braves patient, high exit velocity hitting philosophy. You don’t need to extend Grissom. If another team over values him based on his 2 week debut, the Braves should deal him.
User 401527550
It’s not a bargain. That’s the salary of players in year 2 and 3.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Sure let’s look at a guy that posts a mid-.800 OPS and has a proven track record of premium pitching success and just assume that’s where Strider would fall in five years?! So with that logic, let’s use his first two years of arbitration to show how much of an overpay the Strider deal is because Ohtani only got like $8.5M for year 1 and 2, with him being a full-time hitter as well. Confirmation bias confirms nothing but poor process.
dirty617water
In the past couple of years, they built a brand new stadium and spring training facility. Won a World Series last year. I think they have the money.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
So by that logic, if you are making $500K/year, you would buy a Snickers bar for $10 because you have lots of money? People who don’t have money always assume having money means being reckless with it, but those that have wealth and maintain their wealth, never spend it frivolously. As the saying goes, a fool and his money will quickly part.
dirty617water
AA should sign Correa over Dansby.
NashvilleJeff
Who are the Braves going to play at SS the 25% plus of the time Correa’s on the bench w/his bad back? Braves should stay as far away from Correa’s mercenary thoughts (and bad back) as possible.
DocBB
Ya this was a massive overpay for his final 2 arb years even if they get 2028 and an option for 29. Makes it much harder to trade him away too with such a high salary in those years. Will make luxury tax teams wary of him.
Deleted Userr
Players don’t sign extensions to be traded
User 401527550
Players don’t decide when they will be traded unless they have a no trade clause.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
They do in the NBA!! Just saying.
JoeBrady
the Braves just paid $35 mil for 1 free agent year of Strider
================================
I think that’s not quite that straightforward. I think that $40M is more like $45M, So they paid him a bonus of $25M in order to obtain a 1+1 extension for $22M + $22M, with a $5M buyout. It seems about in the right range.
Past that, I think all these extensions are based on the character of the player as much as talent.
JackStrawb
Makes enormous good sense.
The Braves do it again, getting 2 FA years of a superb pitcher (incl an option year, fcol), and they get those years very close to a SP’s peak ages. Does AA hypnotize these guys’ agents when they’re in the waiting room? Talk about betting on your good judgment!
Someone mentioned Max Fried as a comparison, but Fried barely pitched his first 2 seasons in the majors, and had only a small fraction of a season in 2020, and hasn’t seen his last 2 arb awards in any case.
If Spencer doesn’t get any better than he currently is, he’s still an ace. How much do you think 2 seasons of an ace in his prime would cost, when you don’t have to buy his decline years in order to get the heart of his career?
2/80m? If that’s the case, then the Braves just got Spencer’s first 5 seasons for, check this, 15 million. Wow.
flamingbagofpoop
It’s amazing how many people are just totally willing to ignore the possibility of injury or decline in performance despite the dozens and dozens of examples we’ve seen.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
You know how you can tell you are wrong? Your proof of value starts with “if”. If Free Agents make $40M in five years, if he’s healthy, if he remains productive. Like the saying goes, “if dreams were horses, beggars would ride.” A multi-billion dollar industry should not make 1/12 of a billion dollar decisions based on data that is significantly colored with ifs and maybes.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Enormous good sense like instead of his 2023 and 2024 contract only counting for $1M against the salary cap each year on a year-to-year deal, He now counts almost $15M against the cap even when he’s making $1M a year. Brilliant! The team has 15 players, none of which are Swanson, taking up $180M of their payroll in 2023. That’s stupid-economics!
WestCoast89
I see it as a risk vs. Reward thing. If he continues to dominate, his arm years would’ve skyrocketed. Yeah, if he ends up being average, it’s definitely an overpay. But if he is what it looks like he could be, it’s a steal
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Then you see it wrong, they are ALREADY PAYING HIM top dollar in this deal. The only IF is whether he’ll stay healthy and productive enough to earn the money. I’d hate to be him if he becomes human in Atlanta over the next 6 years.
For everyone that doesn’t get why this contract is bad. Let’s say you are going to a MLB game at your local stadium and for-the-sake-of-argument let’s say there are only 4 seat choices: bleachers $15, nose-bleeds (2nd & 3rd deck) $40, between 1st and 3rd base behind the dugouts for $100, and a seat in a suite for $150.
Now let’s say you call Ticketmaster and they tell you that you will get one of the four tickets, but you don’t know which one until you get to the ball game. You could risk buying the ticket at the ball game, but it comes with a 10% day-of-purchase fee. The Braves aren’t getting a $100 ticket and hoping for either behind the dugouts or in the suite. They are paying the suite price and hoping that they save the 10% fee for buying it at the window. The problem is they still have the potential to either end up in the bleachers or the nose-bleed sections, or even if they get great seats behind homeplate, they are still losing nearly 30% on the gamble.
That’s not how you run a billion dollar company, it’s just not and that’s exactly what they did. If you don’t believe me or you think there is something to argue look at non Super 2 Corbin Burnes and Super 2 Max Fried and you’ll see that their $19-22.5M through 5 service years each is a fraction of the Strider deal, despite All-Star appearances, Gold Gloves, Silver Sluggers, and a Cy Young award between them.
atlbraves
I guess that’s why you’re not a GM.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
I guess that’s why you make comments without referencing who you are talking about or what makes you an expert. I’m sure a non-GM telling someone they don’t have what it takes to be a GM, carries a lot of weight!
kenny84
It’s about rewarding the player. Creating a winning environment. It shows loyalty and commitment to someone who’s earned it. We can’t complain about how a big corporation treats people and not acknowledge when they get it right.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Yeah, then every utility bench player with a heart of gold should make $10-15M a year.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
No it’s not at all about that. If that’s the case, how do you justify to Max Fried that he’s only making $22.5M through his first 5 years in the league? You think that contract for Strider isn’t a slap in the face to guys in that clubhouse? To your point, Strider hasn’t come close to earning it, he’s shown PROMISE, not sustained success. And like I said before, he wouldn’t even qualify for the ERA title.
breckdog
This was risky to me as well. The braves do like to buy out arbitration years where they can. It allows them to know exactly how much room they have left in the budget. This allows them to trade for players like raisel iglesias who have extra years remaining on their contracts.
Francys01
The work that Alex Anthopoulos is doing with the Braves is outstanding. Great job by signing Strider to an extension.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Yeah Anthopoulos has spent right to the cap limit if he brings back Swanson! Nothing like leaning $15M/year against the cap instead of $1M by rushing to make a long-term deal with almost no chance of it showing positive value!
iverbure
Dynasty, Mets are going to spend and bankrupt Cohen while winning absolutely nothing.
fathead0507
AA you da man #ChopOn
miltpappas
He should call Chaim Bloom and give him instructions.
myaccount2
AA doesn’t stop. Sheesh.
Action
They can’t keep getting away with robbery forever…. Right??
Dorothy_Mantooth
The more Atlanta does this, the higher the likelihood that at least one of these extensions ends up not working out for the team in the long run. It’s just the law of averages. Some young players start off with a bang and then quickly regress (think of Miguel Andujar with the NYY) while other players (especially pitchers) can get hurt and be out for more than a full season. If Strider happens to need TJS along the way then this deal would end up being upside down for Atlanta.
With that being said, I agree with Atlanta’s approach here overall but there is still a fair amount of risk involved when extending young players so early in their careers.
bhambrave
I agree, Dorothy. I was a little shocked at how quickly and how high Strider’s pay jumps. He’s been a great pitcher so far, but he still really only has two pitches. But they’re the ones winning Championships while I’m sitting at home typing on my laptop, so my opinion doesn’t mean much.
RunDMC
The alternative is not extending anyone and going to find TOR (top of rotation) pitching on the free agent market where the failure rate is MUCH higher partially because the age is so much higher, along with the rate of pay. While no one can predict the future, ATL knows these players they’re extending better than anyone.
Lanidrac
There’s another alternative of simply waiting an extra year or two to have a much better grasp on whether these young stars are for real before extending them (as well as not handing out massive overpays for their arbitration years).
RunDMC
Sure, but then what if in those 2 years he continues putting up league-high K-rates, gets Cy votes (or wins), AS selections that increases his value exponentially, if he even wants to extend at that point. Sure, lofty but possible.
Lanidrac
Yes, it would be more pricey that way, but it’s worth it to mitigate the good majority of the risk. It would also be easier to negotiate more free agent years into the deal while still getting a significant discount on them.
Besides, they’re already overpaying him in this extension in the first place.
Pads Fans
The Braves got a significant discount on the 2 FA years. They are paying $44 million max for both years and its likely that a single season of a TOR starter in 5 years will cost close to that much. Revenue in baseball is going up and salaries will also
Strider will be a Super Two if he stays on the MLB roster all of next season, so that would have raised his prices in arbitration by a huge margin.
Let’s say he got 15% less than Soto, which if he continues to play like he did in 2022 is not likely, that would mean his one pre-arb year and his 4 arb years would look like this:
2023 Pre Arb year – $1 million (yes, MLB minimum is $700k)
1st year – $7.225 mm
2nd year – $14.75 mm,
3rd year – $25.5 mm, and
4th year – $30+ MM
A total of $78.475 mm
His FA years would go up from than final season of arbitration eligibility. TO make the math easy lets just say by 20%. That is less than average, but in line with some long term deals for FA. That means $36 million for each of the two seasons.
$78.475 mm
$72.00 mm
Total $150.475
So yes, the Braves could have waited to see if he will continue to perform at the same level as he did in 2022 and if he does perform they would have paid that price. Around $150 million for those 7 seasons.
OR they could extend him now for what amounts to 7/87.
Doesn’t take a genius to see which one is better for the team. Obviously Strider is going to take the guaranteed money because that takes care of his family for generations. Its a win-win.
Pads Fans
3rd ARB year was supposed to be $21.5 MM. So $74.75 million for the pre-arb and 4 arb years + $72 million for the FA years = $146.75 million.
Lanidrac
No, he’s *NOT* a Super Two candidate. He had two pre-arb years left and then 3 arb years before the extension.
They are most likely greatly overpaying on those arbitration years. They’ll probably lose even more money on those years than they gain with the discount on the one or two free agent years, which probably would only be worth $30M max per season even if everything goes mostly right for him.
Besides, adding a couple extra free agent years at close to market value on a later extension is absolutely worth it if he is indeed for real.
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
@Run. You are right about Strider’s value potentially increasing. I bet the Yankees are wishing Judge took that extension earlier this year. It will probably cost them another 10 million a year to keep him now if Uncle Steve or the Dodgers don’t jump into the bidding and steal him away from the NYY.
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
@mets. While I did admire Matt Harvey in his early prime he really did a lot of stupid things. His love of the New York night life and illegal substances didn’t help his career along either. I see little comparison between Strider and Harvey.
NashvilleJeff
Agree MFF. Strider’s a freak athlete who’s constantly striving to better his performance by physical training and analytic advancements. Talks a lot about eating correctly, training well, and staying mentally fit. Really mature young man.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
The fact that you don’t know how Super 2 works, totally invalidates your opinion. The examples and numbers you give and your well edited comments make me believe you are a writer… fiction, right?
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
What does a 29 year old with 1 year of control have to do with a 23 year old with 5 years of control left? More importantly, has anybody ever heard of Chris Davis? Anyone who signs Judge will definitely regret that deal in a couple years! Strikeouts have the highest correlation with statistical fall off. Contact doesn’t increase as bat speed wains, hand eye coordination deteriorates, and eye sight worsens.
Judge is a high strikeout guy whose average is buoyed by his homerun total. If his contact rate and barrel rate drops a little, his strikeout total will skyrocket even higher and his homeruns will fall off a cliff. When he’s banging 25-30 HRs, he’ll be at best a mid-.800 OPS, nowhere near the $40M/year people believe he will get!
Deleted Userr
Pads Fans spends 5 hours a day commenting from multiple accounts and STILL doesn’t know how Super Two works.
Strider was not on track to be a Super Two. He would have been Arb 1 eligible after 2024.
BaseballisLife
Strider is a lock to be Top 2 in ROY voting which gives him an extra year of service time.
BaseballisLife
You are assuming that Strider won’t be Top 2 in ROY voting. That is a bad assumption. Adding that extra year of service time will make him eligible.
User 401527550
Roy would give him a full year of service time but he already has the full year of service time. It doesn’t pertain to him except for bonus money.
Deleted Userr
@BaseballIsLife That’s not what the rule is. The rule is if a player finishes 2 top in the ROY balloting he is credited with a full year of service time regardless of the number of days he actually spent in the majors. Because Strider spent the whole season in the majors anyway it has no effect on him. It does not credit a player with two years of service time if they start the season on the ML roster AND place top 2 in the ROY balloting. The league would never agree to that.
Also… just stick to one account Pads Fans. We already know it’s you.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
No the alternative is giving an extension that builds security for the player and allows them to gain price assurance. They could’ve done that with a 6 year deal for $45M with a $25M option.
$1M (2023)
$2M (2024)
$8M (2025)
$14M (2026)
$20M (2027)
$25M (2028 Option)
How much more could he really get?
If he blew the lid off previous seasons with year-to-year, it would be like…
$1M (2023)
$1M (2024)
$10M (2025)
$16M (2026)
$22M (2027)
$35M (2028 Option)
That’s $83M and even then I think those are totally unattainable, even if he won 2 Cy Young Awards and went to the All-Star game every year and what does that save the Braves $11M? So they can hamstring their salary cap ceiling by an additional $14M each of the next two years? Lame. Be disappointed if you are going to be anything Braves fans because soon you’ll see when he falls short of expectations, which is anything short of him becoming Pedro Martinez and he’s no Pedro!
Pads Fans
For those that missed it, Strider will be Super Two BECAUSE he will be top 2 in ROY and that means he gets an extra year of service time in the new CBA.
Pads Fans
Strider will be Super Two because he will be top 2 in ROY voting and that earns him and extra year of service time in the new CBA.
jimthegoat
You appear to have ignored multiple opportunities to google the actual definition of Super Two. Here it is again, for your convenience.
To qualify for the Super Two designation, players must rank in the top 22 percent, in terms of service time, among those who have amassed between two and three years in the Majors.
Strider finished this year with a year and 3 days of service time. If he is not sent down in 2023 he will finish 2023 with 2 years and 3 days of service time. That is between 2 and 3 years. But it would certainly not be enough to be among the top 22 percent of players in that class (the lowest the Super Two cutoff has been since 2009 is 2 years and 115 days after 2019). The earliest Strider could have been arb eligible was after 2024.
And because he will likely finish top 2 in the ROY balloting, he would have been credited with a full year of service time in 2022 even if the Braves had tried to “Kris Bryant” him. So he still would not have been a Super Two. Because they didn’t try to “Kris Bryant” him it has no bearing on his service time or his Super Two status. It does, however, mean the Braves get an extra draft pick.
And no, he does not get credited with two years of service time for this year because he spent the whole year on the major league roster AND was a ROY finalist. The league never would agree to that.
fathead0507
AA you da man #ChopPn
Milwaukee-2208
Braves are the best run organization in all of baseball. All of their young core is locked up and are going to be WS threats for the next 7-8 years. Meanwhile the Mets toss money at aging crap
Yanks2
Lindor?
coloredpaper
Hopefully he also didn’t mean Scherzer, one terrible wildcard game from an elite pitcher like him still doesn’t make him crap.
Yanks2
One could argue that, though. Definitely one of the best pitchers in the game but when it truly matters he crumbled
getrealgone2
Max was gassed in the NLCS last year. Then blew it against the Braves and then against the Pads. He’s getting old and is owed a good chunk of change still.
myaccount2
Yanks2- If one argues that, their critical thinking skills would be worthy of criticism.
Yanks2
Was hoping this thread would continue without trolls insulting one another instead of adding actual substance to their argument. But thanks to you I now have another person on my mute list. Thanks
RunDMC
Scherzer isn’t “aging crap” but it was one bad Wild Card game plus losing that pivotal start vs. ATL (he gave up 6 HR in his final 2 starts (inc. WC game) when he gave up only 13 HR all reg season).
Joeyg39
Cohen signed Scherzer and paid this guy a king’s ransom to win the game in Atlanta and at Citi Field against the Padres. He lost both. Explain to me the worth in that? $43m for nothing. There is no amount of rationalizing that can excuse that.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
mlb.com/news/daniel-camarena-grand-slam-off-max-sc…
seamslegit
Wouldn’t call him aging crap, but he’s on the decline. Not great to sign long term deals to declining players
User 401527550
Three years isn’t a long term deal.
Sid Bream Speed Demon
It is for someone that age. Get over it already, your team choked, you should be used to Choketober and Choketember by now.
Bud Selig Fan
Cohen doesn’t care. He’ll outspend the Dodgers on infrastructure and payroll on his way to becoming the 3rd superteam in the NL.
The Giants & Cubbies will follow and up the Goliaths to 5. Baseball will become a joke as far as competition is concerned.
Bk11235 2
Agree on braves. Disagree on my mets. They signed scherzer only to make a run this and set an example for winning and pitching which he did. Other then that what aging crap did we sign? Only long term deal we signed was lindor who is young in his prime. So we are primed in the next 2 years ti go after anyone and hopefully alvarez and baty are legit to add to alonso lindor and whoever else
Yanks2
Cano (technically)
padam
Let’s say we overpaid for Diaz, because ultimately that’s what it was. And he performed on a cheap contract for what he produced.
MyCommentIsBetter
Cano signed with Seattle, the Mets were just dumb enough to trade for him.
User 401527550
Diaz isn’t cheap.
casorgreener
Astros are the best
bhambrave
The best at cheating, you mean.
AndyM
Win win for both sides. Love to see this for a team and their fan base
AndyM
Win win for both sides. Love to see it for the player, team and the fan base
getrealgone2
Braves ain’t screwing around.
JayeT
Just here for Mets fans comments. I’ll hang up and listen.
braves95 2
Same. Morning after getting knocked out plus Strider’s dig at them a few months ago about not being as good as their record and stats showed… meltdown city
rct
As a Mets fan, I love what the Braves are doing and their fans should be excited. They have a big part of their core locked up for years and have set themselves on the path to being contenders for the next five years minimum. This Strider deal might be the most risky considering his short track record and the fragility of pitching in general, but it’s not for an amount that would hamstring the team. $12.5 million a year is nothing in 2022 MLB.
For the fans’ sake, I hope ownership realizes the value of spending some money and they re-sign Swanson. Though for the sake of my Mets, I hope they penny pinch and let him walk, haha.
NashvilleJeff
I’m a Braves fan who believes that there are plenty of fans of other teams who have common sense, knowledge, and good manners. Rct and Cosmos2 are the two Met commenters on the site that most fit this description. Obviously there are others, but these two usually seem to have reasonable and unbiased thoughts on their rivals.
bhambrave
Ditto for Phillies fan VonPurpleHays.
NashvilleJeff
Absolutely bham. Von’s king of the hill when it comes to Phils fans on here. Same for TrumboJumbo w/the Angels and Yankee Clipper w/the Yanks. PinkFloyed is also excellent. Some thoughtful Dodgers guys on here too. Plenty that rep for other teams. Comedic relief regularly inserted by some sneaky good commenters.
theicemancometh
Are we going to have any money left for Dansby with all these signings? I know the first few years here are cheap, but still …
getrealgone2
I’m curious what he wants. He might not be worth what he’s asking.
KC42
He’s most likely looking at something similar but a little less than what Bogaerts signed for. somewhere in the 100-115 range over 6 years. early opt out year, incentives based on GG, SS, ASG, MVP votes
Steve Adams
Bogaerts took an immensely friendly deal.. If you’re Swanson, coming off this type of 2021-22 performance, why would you sign for any less than Trevor Story and Javier Baez received last winter ($140MM over six years)?
If Swanson signs a $110-115MM extension, he’s probably leaving at least $40MM on the table. Kudos to him if he wants to do it; can’t blame him for being happy to take nine figures to stay with his hometown team and to stay with this core of players — but there should be a lot more on the market for him than that.
casorgreener
anybody signing Swanson for 6/120 will regret it
bhambrave
6/120 is light, based on his defensive floor.
RunDMC
This is why Swanson will end up in LAD – replacing Trea Turner, while they’ll save 80-100M, reuniting Swansong with Freeman, and more importantly, Charlie. Similar thing happened last year when LAD needed to replace Corey Seager’s offense by sliding Muncy over and signing Freeman at half the price. Freeman even took Seager’s #5 jersey…too easy.
Braves83
I disagree. If Baez and Story sign for 140 –add in the shift going away–the market for Dans is at least 140 plus. And that is adding in a discount for Atlanta. I hope he stays but it won’t be the end of the world to have a glove 1st ss hitting 9th in this line up.
eyeball710
More importantly, Charlie. Lol.
RunDMC
Thing is Baez/Story both have been more consistent with their bats (even Baez, lol), while providing defensive value. Swanson’s best year is his contract year, and even then it’s only a 115 OPS+ (when 100 is league average). He’s only done that once before (during condensed 2020 season). His market will drive up the price being one of the only 2nd tier options (behind pricier Boegarts, Trea Turner; Correa shouldn’t opt out). I expect to see him elsewhere next year.
JoeBrady
But Swanson is not nearly as good as those guys. Prior to his walk year, he had an 8.8 career bWAR, or 2.1/650 PAs. Anyone signing him to a Story like deal feels like a major overpay.
Pads Fans
Story put up a 112 OPS+ and 26.8 bWAR in the 6 seasons leading up to his deal with the Red Sox.
Baez put up a 108 OPS+ and 23.7 bWAR in the 6 seasons leading up to his deal with the Tigers.
Swanson put up a 95 OPS+ and a 14.5 bWAR in his 7 seasons in the majors.
Why would Swanson get Story or Baez money? He hasn’t performed at even close to their level.
NashvilleJeff
DMC: Lol all you want, but Baez is nowhere near the hitter Swanson is. Detroit couldn’t trade him for an old jock now. Story had to move off SS because his arm’s gone south and can’t stay on the field. Give Swanson credit for being healthy for the last couple of seasons. He wasn’t before 2020. Baez and Story are declining. Swanson’s on the up.
NashvilleJeff
Pads Fan. Swanson only played 38 games in his debut season in 2016. Really only has 6 seasons in the ML. The Braves should evaluate Swanson based on his last 3 healthy seasons of play. Played 2019 w/a bad heel. He’s played every regular season game but 2 over the last 3 years. Have to disagree that Baez and Story have more upside than Swanson at this point in their careers. Baez currently is one of the worst hitting SS in MLB. Can Story even play SS anymore? Believe he’s expressed the desire to stay on 2B (probably because of his arm strength being gone.) Baez/Story trending down, Swanson up. Who caes about Story and Baez past anyway? That kind of evaluation has gotten the Tigers and Red Sox stuck w/those two. Who doesn’t believe that the Tigers have serious buyers remorse on Baez? Doubt the Sox are much happier w/Story, but Red Sox fans would know much more about that than I do.
User 401527550
He is getting a lot more then that.
Sid Bream Speed Demon
I hope we don’t give Swanson more than 3 years, even if the AAV has to be high. This is the first season that he has looked really good and stayed healthy.
User 401527550
Then you won’t be signing him. He is getting more then 3 years.
NashvilleJeff
Think he’ll get significantly longer offers than 3 years Sid. Also, Swanson played all 60 games in 2020 and he missed only 2 games total in the 21-22 seasons. He’s been healthy for 3 straight years. He’s going to get over paid by somebody. He’s the steady eddie kind of player that gets under valued by fans. Imo, he’s got the Braves over a barrel because they have absolutely no in house alternatives to replace him. My guess is he re-signs w/the Braves. My stupid destined to be wrong estimate is………7 years @160 mill.
Pads Fans
Being healthy doesn’t make you as good. Swanson isn’t as good as either of those players. Period.
Pads Fans
Notice I mentioned that those numbers were for 7 years of Swanson’s production?
Since 2020 was a short season let’s take the last 4 seasons.
Story – 16.2 WAR
Baez – 14.5 WAR
Swanson – 11.2 WAR
Its not close. Swanson is not as good as those guys. Period.
Dustyslambchops23
This is smart timing, no surprise from AA.
Now this young arm will feel a bit more comfortable coming out on short rest, out of the pen, whatever the case may be knowing he has some security next year and beyond.
joemoes
Buying out those arbitration years is key to these deals imo. It’s a let me pay you now and you cut me a discount later. I have faith in you to sign you right now.
And it becomes contagious in the clubhouse imo. No one is making obscenely more then the other. Let’s keep the core together.
Best run organization currently imo.
I am a Yankees fan and they could learn a thing or two from
This. They could or locked judge up years ago now they are going to pay for it or not pay for it and lose their star.
Lanidrac
If that’s the key, then they failed, since they’re significantly overpaying for those arb years.
Personally, I think the key is to get control of extra free agent years in exchange, but even there they didn’t do that well by only getting one or two of them.
Pads Fans
Not at all. Strider will be a Super Two and have 4 arbitration years. If his performance stays this high he will make over $80 million in his pre-arb year and those 4 arb years.
Even if you assume he will make 15% less than Soto and other top players that were Super Two, that means he will make $75-78 million for the one remaining pre-arb season and 4 arbitration seasons.
Then add in the two FA years the Braves control at $22 million each, and this deal is great for the Braves. Great for Strider too, because he locks in generational guaranteed money.
Lanidrac
Again, he is NOT a Super Two, and you can’t in any way assume that he will continue to remain this good. Even if he does remain this good in a best case scenario, he would only approach the amount he’s being guaranteed over those 2 pre-arb years and 3 arb years, and the team should get a significant discount on those arb years in such an early career extension, anyway.
User 401527550
Until he gets injured like Matt Harvey.
Pads Fans
Again, he IS a Super Two. Why? Because he is going to be in top 2 of ROY voting which gives him an extra year of service time.
jimthegoat
Super Two means you are arb eligible a year earlier, not that you get an extra year of service time. And him being top 2 in the ROY balloting has no bearing on his service time because the Braves never tried to manipulate it.
Bk11235 2
Im a huge mets fan but the braves are the best run organization in baseball by far. The way they draft and are able to get their players so sign long term for under market value is second to none. Now ya have your CF 1b 2b 3b rf and strider all signed to under market value contracts and still have money to sign swanson and dip into free agent pool. If i was om shark tank and im Mark cuban right now im clapping!
windmill_noise_causes_cancer
You gotta love it.
vacommish
Sign Dansby next.
put it in the books
Good thing Shane Spencer wasn’t on the Braves for 2 months this season, they would’ve given him $100m.
braves95 2
Shane Spencer didn’t have elite closer K numbers as a starting pitcher
put it in the books
Apply it to all of the offensive players they’ve done the same with.
ChipperChop
By “all the offensive players” I’m assuming you’re only referring to Harris? Riley had two seasons under his belt, Olson five seasons and the Acuna and Ozzie contracts are both highway robbery for the Braves. Btw….you put that Mets collapse in the books yet?
put it in the books
They lost in the playoffs, winning 101 games isn’t a collapse. Just like it won’t be a collapse when the Braves get smoked in the playoffs. As much as the Acuna and Albies deals were highway robbery they still haven’t been good cause theyve been hurt or half what they were. Harris hasn’t played a season and Olson will be an albatross if a deal in 2 years. Riley is a good deal. Half these contracts won’t work out. Striders is fine assuming he doesn’t turn into what every Atlanta farm system pitcher turns into, which is garbage in 3 years.
logo69
This is how a Mets fan copes with his team getting bounced lmao
whocaresaboutRBI
With the shift going away, how can anyone think Olson’s production is going to go down is beyond me. Albies was banged up this year but his $35M contract was earned in basically a year and a half. Acuna had a 41/37 season after he signed, and was in his way to winning the MVP last year before the injury. Good luck finding someone who doesn’t think he’ll get back to those heights at 25 years old. Drafting and developing pitchers is a crap shoot no doubt and Atlanta has had their failures along the way. But for every Newcomb, Folty, Wisler,and Touki that they’ve missed on I think they’re happy to trade that off with Fried, Wright, Minter, and to a lesser extent Anderson and Elder. Finally, I know people point to the 10 1/2 game lead the Mets had and call it a collapse. I disagree with this because the Mets basically played .600 most of the season. But blowing a 7 1/2 game lead on August 7 and losing 6-7 to the primary opposition is absolutely a choke job.
Sid Bream Speed Demon
Hope you enjoyed this season’s episode of LOLMets Choketober and made the appropriate notation in whatever book you refer to in your user name, the book of hurt I assume.
NashvilleJeff
Lol at a Met fan claiming another team’s “farm system pitcher turns into….garbage.” Say hello to the countless Met pitchers that have done exactly that. Some recent examples—Harvey (lol), Matz, Gsellman, etc. Btw, Max Fried and Kyle Wright aren’t garbage. Talent evaluation, competent analysis, and a decent memory aren’t your strong suits. Troll on books. Enjoy the Braves playoff run while you whimper about what could have been for your Mutts.
User 401527550
Most pitchers do that. That’s the point but take it personal. Braves fans will be the first ones screaming when all these long term signing don’t work out and the team starts getting hamstrung. Acuna contract was great. He’s top ten talent. Albies was cheap and smart. Riley was warranted. These rookies contracts are just starting to be the front office getting over their skis and thinking they can’t screw up.
put it in the books
If they had done the same with Jurrjens or Hanson or Wood this wouldn’t have gone well
Dennis Boyd
Don’t forget Soroka
Sid Bream Speed Demon
Which is probably why they didn’t. Worry about your own team of aging stars and average players.
Pads Fans
Jurrjens was a Tiger in his rookie season and put up a 3.68 ERA while striking out just 6.6 per 9 in his first season with the Braves.
Why would they have extended him at all?
NashvilleJeff
Another pitiful troll comment from books. Shouldn’t you still be ranting about how the Division race was over in May? Jealousy’s an ugly emotion. Why don’t you whine about how well the Braves evaluate, draft, and develop their players while you’re trolling. Your Shane Spencer strawman garbage makes no sense as a comp for any extension the Braves have executed. My bad for expecting anything you say to make sense.
NashvilleJeff
Can’t believe how many time the site posts the same comment. Say it once, see it 4-5 times. Good grief.
bravesnation nc
Now sign 7! Get it done AA. Anyone else a lil bothered we got a 1:05/4:05 start times at Truist? I get it on the scheduling side by MLB but come on. Defending Champs and your slotted at “Get Away” games. Just saying.
bhambrave
The Braves have always gotten the day slots. No respect.
fox471 Dave
Teally?
fox471 Dave
Really?
CNichols
Has to be mostly geographic. Two east coast teams in ATL/PHI with two west coast teams in LAD/SD pretty much guarantees you’re going to go in this order.
If you swap those times it would be a 1pm local start in LA, at least this way it’s a 4pm local start in ATL.
hittahomer
Except they’re going up against the Yankees time slots. When Cleveland was playing TB, they had lunchtime games. Now that they’re going against the Yankees, Cleveland has prime time. Unless you’re LA, NY or Boston, you play early. Not a fan of it, but that’s the way it works.
Sunday Lasagna
Can’t see that happening. If you give 7 a six year deal that takes him through his age 35 season. His skills will deteriorate with age. Braves give long term deals to guys that will be younger when the deal is done.
User 401527550
The Dodgers play on the west coast and you want them to play earlier then the Braves?
hyraxwithaflamethrower
You’d think some of these young Braves players would want to bet on themselves by waiting a few years. I mean, kudos to the Braves for being aggressive and they’re certainly taking on risk of injury / under-performance, but seems some of the extensions the players have signed seem light.
gbs42
The Albies deal is a massive savings, Acuna nearly as much. Olson, Riley, Harris, and Strider are all reasonable balances between risk and reward for both the players and the team. Actually, I think the Braves are taking on more of the risk.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
I agree on Riley, but Harris and Strider seemed to sign for cheap. Olson was FMV. It looks good for these first few years and probably bad for the last 2-3, but overall seems like a good value. I don’t count him anyway as he’s not exactly in his first or second year.
ohyeadam
Must be a great place to play if they can get all these young guys to sign for long term. These deals take trust on both sides. Winning always helps too
Jack5102
Good for him!!!
bhambrave
I expect the Braves are going to go to Dansby and say “Dansby, you see what we’re trying to do here. You see the pieces that are already in place. We just can’t afford to pay you market price. If you want to be a continuing part of this Braves dynasty, you’ll need to give us a discount”.
LordD99
And he’ll leave. As he should.
hittahomer
Dansby is gone. There were talks mentioned in August and no deal was done. In Braves speak, that means he’s hitting FA.
NashvilleJeff
Strider and AA both said they’d been talking about this extension since early September. AA’s notoriously quiet when negotiating. No one here, or elsewhere, has any idea how that process is currently going w/Swanson.
bravesnation nc
I rather prefer people don’t respect the Braves. year in year out it’s the same and those dudes post and produce. We can stay the underdog and underrated for all I care . I was down there for that last Mets series and all I heard was silence from the Mets fan base Sunday night. Go Braves!
put it in the books
Saying the Braves aren’t respected is to play the victim for victims sake. It’s just false
bhambrave
Look at post-season history over the last twenty or thirty years, and you’ll see the Braves usually getting the day games. They are respected as a team on the field, but not as a market.
RunDMC
I mean, we’re talking about MLB that’s chosen to segregate their most loyal fans by continuing blacking-out games and fracturing the TV market with money-grab, inane exclusive streaming deals (i.e. Peacock Sunday morning games…some without announcers; Apple TV Fri night games). You’re lucky if you get to see them at all.
Lanidrac
To be fair, the Apple games are absolutely free for anyone to watch and with no blackouts, so that’s not one of the bad deals.
RunDMC
The Apple games are exclusives and are blacked out to anyone subscribing to MLB.tv (or regional cable: Bally, in the Braves case) further diluting the market. Do they really think someone is going to go subscribe to Apple TV (one of The Worst of the streamers) just to watch? And of that, how many non-tech savvy (i.e. older demographic) are even able to do that?
Lanidrac
So what? The Apple TV games are absolutely free to watch, no paid subscription required and no blackouts on the service itself! I watched my home team in my home market on it myself without paying a dime or being blacked out.
While I suppose they are blacked out on MLB.tv, but then you can just watch them on Apple TV instead. Meanwhile, those games aren’t even broadcast on local cable, since you again just have to watch on Apple TV instead.
As for your tech savvy argument, it’s a very simple. Anyone who can sign up to a website and verify a second factor of authorization can do it. You just need to have an Apple account and either a computer or smartphone to access the verification code. Practically anyone who can browse streaming TV services in the first place can do it.
For someone like me who can only watch my team on national broadcasts due to the unavailability of my team’s cable channel at a decent price, getting to watch them on TV (instead of settling for the radio like usual) a few extra times a season thanks to the Apple deal is great.
RobM
To be fair, they’ve made it much more difficult on fans.
Apple TV games are free this year. That won’t continue.
Poster formerly known as . . .
On the other hand, a subscription to Apple TV+ is remarkably cheap, comparatively: $4.99 a month or $49.99 a year.
As a Yankee fan, I’m much more resentful of the Yankees keeping their YES Network off of all of the streaming services except Direct TV. The only other way to get that channel is to splurge on the ridiculously overpriced cable providers with their ever-escalating fees. The Yankees seem to be possibly the least fan-friendly franchise in baseball.
User 401527550
That is just temporary. It will cost money next year.
RobM
While I’ve never done a comparison, I do believe they probably are the least fan-friendly. The Prime games are not really an inconvenience since I have Prime. The annoying part is we are charged a fee as part of our cable packages to get YES, but more games this year have been splintered off to Prime, Apple and Peacock. Add in that Yankees more than any other team have their games moved to ESPN and Fox, and it’s often a challenge to play the game of “find the Yankees.” Less games on YES, but no reduction in the carriage fee we pay. The inability to stream in market is a significant issue. I’ve had it with my cable provider.
Poster formerly known as . . .
I finally cut the cord and we’re saving thousands every year.
RobM
I’m doing the same at the end of October. My hope is an in-market streaming option arrives by next April. There’s talk one’s coming. I’m sure it will be reasonably priced. /s
bravesnation nc
I’d use the Baez contract as a baseline 23AAV over 6
Pads Fans
Why? Swanson has not been nearly as good as Baez was prior to signing with the Tigers.
JackStrawb
@Pads Fans Interesting point. Baez’s peak, two 6 rWAR seasons in 2018-19, are something Swanson only came close to in 2022 (though, pro rated, his 2020 would have gotten close). The main difference is, Swanson still appears to be in his prime, while Baez was 2 seasons removed from it (and counting) as of the 2021-22 offseason, not to mention his catastrophic 2020 season, and leading the NL in K’s at the point he was dealt to the Mets and the attendant risks of that, plus his foolishness while on the Mets. He was surely damaged goods at that point—at least to some degree..
Baez is also known as a reflex player, as in his dropoff is likely to be catastrophic, costing you the entirety of the last years of his deal. For the same price I’d much rather have Swansby’s 2023=2028, than Baez’s 2022-2027.
RobM
The team looking to sign Swanson should have some concerns that his 2022 is unlike anything prior. Career 89 OPS+ the prior five seasons. If we remove his first-full season clunker in 2017 and fold in 2022, he’s still only at a league-average 100. Walk rate down to a career low while his K rate is basically at a career high. His 182K’s this year feels more Stantonian than it should for a mid-range power hitter like Swanson. Not to sound too negative, since there are also positives in his hitting profile, but I’d have concerns going too long term with him. Then again, I also had concerns with Baez, who has a higher degree of volatility due to his approach. If you’re a Tigers fan, you probably should hope Baez opts out after 2023. That means he had a good year, unlike 2022.
Pads Fans
Peak 2 years?
Story put up a 112 OPS+ and 26.8 bWAR in the 6 seasons leading up to his deal with the Red Sox.
Baez put up a 108 OPS+ and 23.7 bWAR in the 6 seasons leading up to his deal with the Tigers.
Swanson put up a 95 OPS+ and a 14.5 bWAR in his 7 seasons in the majors.
Since 2019,
Story – 16.2 WAR
Baez – 14.5 WAR
Swanson – 11.2 WAR
Its not close. Both Story and Baez are much better players.
User 401527550
Swanson is better then Baez. Baez has been one of three most over rated players.
Pads Fans
That’s hilarious. The facts say you are wrong.
Deleted Userr
To think 6 years ago Braves fans on here were defending their FO not trading Jim Johnson at the trade deadline and acting like finishing with a better record than the Phillies and Reds that year was going to lead to a giant step forward. Look at them now.
NashvilleJeff
Legendary strawman’s a better name for you. Name those Braves fans who felt that way. Can’t do it? Quit pretending that every Braves fan supported your ridiculous troll scenario. To think that you’re so desperate to troll Braves fans you’d pretend you remembered something from 6 years ago that a small minority of Braves fans may/may not have ever said.
Deleted Userr
I don’t think you know what “straw man” means.
bravesnation nc
Everyone picked the Mets some even had ATL in 3rd place in the East cause Freeman left. It’s not playing victim. It’s all the projections every year.
Sunday Lasagna
The stuff I read in spring training had the Braves, Phillies and Marlins all ahead of the Mets who were 78-84 the year prior and spent money on a bunch of 30 some odd year olds. If there is a publication that picked the Mets, please send the link.
RunDMC
bleacherreport.com/articles/2955053-mlb-prediction…
cbssports.com/mlb/news/2022-mlb-predictions-expert…
Sunday Lasagna
Thanks RunDMC, that is pretty lousy that Amy writer had the Mets ahead of the defending WS champions
User 401527550
I guess writers should just pick the Braves for ten years because they won a World Series with a 88 win season. The Braves and Mets both won 101 games. Let’s not get silly and act like the Braves ran away with it and were disrespected.
JackStrawb
@bravesnation nc Not my recollection at all, friend. Most of the professional commentators (fwiw) picked the Braves on the basis that the Mets had yet to unthrone the kings. They tended to evaluate the Mets as having the better team, but not by a lot, but were going (fwiw) with ‘experience’ and so forth.
As usual, i was right. I picked it as a horse race, with the Mets tending to fall apart thanks to an old rotation and an old team, that would have trouble down the stretch. And guess what?
—Hey, do you think the Braves bite the bullet and pay Swanson? Hard to see that from a FO willing to let Freddie walk and who have Vaughn Grissom, a natural SS, ready to go.
NashvilleJeff
Grissom has about as much chance of playing a capable ML SS as a fan picked at random when they come through the gate. Awkward, weak arm, slap happy hitter whose approach doesn’t fit the Braves high exit velo crush the ball approach. He swings at any and everything trying to make contact. Most annoying 3-2 hitter I’ve watched all season. He’s allergic to walks. He only hit the first two weeks he was up. League figured him out quickly. The Braves have no SS prospects at the upper mil levels. If they don’t re-sign Swanson, they’re making a serious mistake. Can’t see AA letting him leave and downgrading the roster when they’re so competitive at every other lineup spot except left field.
RobM
For 1st? Many of the projections I saw had the Braves winning the division. There certainly wasn’t a universal belief the Mets would win the division since the Mets only was 77 games the prior season.
RobM
…and, additionally, considering how poorly the Mets played the prior year, anyone predicting the Mets to win the division should get a gold star. The Mets won 101 games and tied the Braves for the division. The Mets performance was more surprising than the Braves.
Robrock30
The Braves are a Smart Proactive Organization. Conversely, How about them Mets? LOL Strider had it Right all along.
User 401527550
Why to constant trashing of the Mets when both teams won 101 games. I don’t really comprehend the LOL.
nahnvrmnd
The Mets and Braves won the same number of games in the season, and the same in number in October. They’re both at hpme.. And Strider got lit up, choking in the only important game he’s ever pitched in. The Braves payed for what they wish Strider turns into, but reality says he will never post those numbers again.Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s a big gamble on the back of 2/3 of a season. In a general sense, the Harris deal is a great one, and Riley. Olson can go either way, I think. And as much as I like Acuna and Albies, the injuries have already taken a toll. Braves need to sign Fried. Swanson is probably walking.
farscott
While I have been a fan of the other extensions, this extension scares me a bit. Position players tend to be better values when extensions are considered, especially in terms of injury risk. With pitchers, it seems every one goes down with season ending shoulder, elbow and back injuries. Mike Soroka, if he would have been extended at the same time in his career than Strider just was, would have two years of no value add to the team due to his Achilles injuries. I also would like to see how Strider does next year before extending him. I sure would like to have more of a track record than a single season.
Perhaps this is me remembering Mike Hampton’s contract. and injuries.
NashvilleJeff
Huge Braves fan, but you’re making a reasonable point here. While I think the Strider extension is a good gamble on an excellent young arm, you’re right that any pitcher can turn into a pumpkin due to poor health or performance.
DBH1969
This is how you run an organization.
The Red Sox had the opportunity to do so with Betts, Bogaerts, and Devers a few years ago and blew the opportunity. I hope Bloom is watching the Braves and learning.
Rsox
The players are definitely buying what the Braves are selling. I do think it’s a little harder in Boston/New York because success there translates to big dollars everywhere
DocBB
Massive overpay for 26 and 27 arb years.
Lanidrac
It looks pretty risky to me to give him that big of an extension after just his rookie year while only getting one or two extra years of his services.
RunDMC
Sure, it’s risky, but they’ve gotten some historic numbers in a rookie season already from Strider. Look at the alternative, pay for TOR stuff like DET did in the offseason with Rodriguez (5 years/77M) — and he was AWOL for much of the season in the 1st year of his deal. Not coincidentally, DET will be picking high in the Draft (again). That’s only one example, but there’s so much more risk on the free agent market (especially when looking for TOR arms) than locking up someone that could slot into that.
Lanidrac
No, the alternative is to wait an extra year or two before extending him and then not overpaying for his arb years if/when you do still decide to extend him. Preferably, you’d also buy out another year or two of free agency at that point, as well.
ninosrna22
if they wait another “year or two” before extending him, they would have to add another 20-30 million on this extension for him to even consider it if he continues to perform anywhere close to this level. the only reason they have been able to sign this massive core of players is because they’re taking risks and signing them very early. if they waited another “year or two” like you say, none of this would be possible with the Braves’ payroll. Not to mention at that point, many of the players might even decide to wait out until free agency and refuse any potentially team friendly deals. The Braves are taking the approach knowing that not all of these deals will pay out, including Striders’. But they know that by having a huge core of players, their total risk will decrease and one or two could be replaced with gem finds at trade deadlines like AA is known for. Braves will be WS contenders for the next 5 years at least with this core.
bhambrave
If you wait a year or two and he continues to pitch well, then his pricetag doubles.
RunDMC
This line in the Braves press release is why you don’t wait: Strider became “the first player in major league history to strike out over 200 with fewer than 100 hits allowed.”
Guy is putting up Randy Johnson numbers. He’s a rookie.
JackStrawb
@RunDMC Bingo. The risks are present, but the reward is fantastic, not to mention that it gives you the inside track in a few years to talk a further extension. Don’t know what that’s worth, but it’s not nothin’.
NashvilleJeff
Well reasoned ninosrna22. Agree.
bravesfan
Good for him!
bravesfan
Now resign dansby and fried
NashvilleJeff
They’ve got Fried under control through 2024. Wouldn’t be a bad time to offer him a 5-6 year deal at 100-120 mill. He’s expected to get 12 mill next season as an arb 3.
CNichols
The Braves are doing this a lot and I’m not saying Strider is the one that it’s going to happen on, but I can’t see it panning out for every player with an extension.
The backend of this deal reminds me of Wil Myers, only in the sense that you have 3 years of $20M+ that start multiple years after the extension was reached. Padres fans loved it in 2017 when they locked him up, but carrying the last 3 years of that deal was brutal for them.
Hopefully Strider has a great career and it’s not an issue, but if it goes poorly that’s not going to be a fun contract to have on the books in 2026-2028.
DTD/ATL1313
To say there’s no way they avoid the luxury tax is ridiculous. They also have a lot of money coming off the books this yr and next with internal options available to replace these players. Jansen and Duvall are gone after this yr. Morton, Odorizzi, Yates, and Rosario are gone after next yr. Ozuna will be gone after 2024. There are way too many moving pieces to just guarantee blowing past the luxury tax.
Armaments216
These deals also help lower the luxury tax hit down the road. Puts more AAV up front versus the higher luxury tax hit they’d eventually get if they went year to year through arbitration and/or later extensions. Makes it more sustainable to retain this core group long term.
JackStrawb
Superb point.
hogansgoat
2 things:
Injuries are 75% covered by insurance
Players don’t sign team friendly controls anymore (Jose Ramirez says you’re wrong)
NashvilleJeff
Musgrove also signed a team friendly extension w/his hometown Padres.
Braves Butt-Head
Meanwhile Cohen will spend even more and have a $400 mil opening day payroll lol.
hogansgoat
2 things:
Injuries are 75% covered by insurance
Players don’t sign team friendly contacts because they enjoy where they are. Jose Ramirez begs to disagree
hiflew
Have the Braves not noticed how many of their young pitchers have fallen apart after 2-3 years over the last two decades? Sure there is a chance that the Braves might save $20 million plus if Strider becomes an ace, but they are far more likely to waste $20 million plus if he doesn’t.
The Braves seem like they are making all these extensions so their front office can spend the next 4 winters in Bermuda instead of working.
logo69
Or they’re being proactive to keep future payroll in check and balanced out so they don’t get caught with uncertain arbitration costs in the future. There’s risk for sure, but if AA is doing it (he’s been notoriously risk-aversive since arriving) I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt.
DTD/ATL1313
It’s not their young pitching, it’s pitching in general. Pitching may be the most volatile position of any sport. You make deals based on current results and future expectations. If you don’t you price yourself out of future contracts by playing the waiting game.
NashvilleJeff
hflew: This is the first pitcher (out of the 6 players) they’ve signed to an extension. The other 5 of “all these extensions” are postion players at different ages and stages in their careers. Name a team who hasn’t had pitchers who’ve “fallen apart.” You can’t because that’s the nature of pitching—as DTD said above.. Braves obviously feel Strider’s an outlier in that respect. AA said as much in his interviews today when discussing Strider’s health, work habits, team fit, and overall excellence for his age.
Bright Side
Braves are the smartest team in baseball. Had the Yankees given Judge the same treatment after the 2017 season, we wouldn’t be having Judge FA discussions.
Braves Butt-Head
Cashman still living off of the Coattails of the late 90s Yankee teams and Derek Jeter.
rocky7
Yes, the name Braves Butt Head about sums it up correctly!
hiflew
Had the Yankees given Miguel Andujar the same treatment after the 2018 season, we would be having a completely different discussion. Most rookies don’t end up becoming Aaron Judge BTW.
hogansgoat
2 things:
Injuries are 75% covered by insurance
Players don’t sign team friendly contacts because they are happy where they are(Jose Ramirez disagreeS
hogansgoat
What the hell is “unexpected reply from the server” mean?
foppert
“Be patient, don’t retype your message, it will there in a minute”
Joeyg39
I think when this kid told the media after a loss to the Mets that they got cheap, bloop hits and were lucky…then follows it up with we’ll see how they are in October, spoke volumes on his make up and confidence. Gotta love it. It’s a shame he doesn’t pitch for the Mets. Cohen would give his first born to have Strider. He would have extended him for 10 years/$200m…
nahnvrmnd
Doubtful, Strider was just crying and nobody in NY gives a fk what he says. There’s a reason Cohen has the money he has, and it isn’t by being a fool October? the Mets won the same number of games the Braves did…1…and Strider got lit up in the only big game he ever pitched in…Did he have a good season, yes. will he ever be that good again? probably not.
dclivejazz
On the surface it seems like the Braves have made several excellent long-term deals with young talent. But I wonder if a team can reach a point that they have too many of these deals and can could reduce their roster flexibility down the road.
DTD/ATL1313
Don’t see how it could be an issue. Players come and go and rosters turn over constantly. Knowing you have certain players locked allows for more flexibility.
RunDMC
Agreed, but they hadn’t locked up any pitching long-term. Sure, they have control of Fried/Wright (even via arb), but Strider is the first long-term arm. He’s shown his ceiling to be so high that I’m sure they wanted to lock it in place before he’s outpriced himself, with another solid season.
NashvilleJeff
Well put DMC. I don’t always disagree w/you. Especially not when you’re right, lol.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Only a bust if he needs TJ or other major surgery in a year or two. Otherwise, smart to stash the stache.
foppert
A contract representing mutual respect is a good thing. Love the extension deal for a young guy. Braves have got it going on.
abc123baseball
Braves may as well just blow past the tax. It’s all Monopoly money past a certain point and this core has dynasty potential. If the Braves can reposition themselves as America’s Team once again, all that peach juice will come flowing back. Yum, yum, peach juice flowing, baby.
RunDMC
I believe 2027 is the final year of that infamous TV deal that hasn’t been the cash cow many other lesser franchises have benefitted from. They’ve been doing well to develop revenue streams and having them as serious generators by the time the current contract is up, and when a new one is signed, they should be up there in annual budgets (and profitability).
ham77
Being represented by Frontline he got himself a nice contract plus doesn’t have to worry about fleas & ticks
Armaments216
Rep’d by Frontline and now he’s got Bravecto
abc123baseball
The Braves need to go all-in now when the NL East is weak. The Phillies are a bunch of try-hards. The Mets only have one tool in the toolbox and that tool is green if you know what I mean. The Marlins simply smell. Atlanta has a chance to squeeze out of fistload of rings before the Nats come of age and steamroll the Senior Circuit. They may as well take it.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
The Marlins are one new owner away from being elite. If the right billionaire acquired them and they signed say Judge, Trea and Arenado, this would be one truly awesome team and their payroll would still be less than several other teams.
chound
The Marlins are one of the furthest teams from elite in the MLB. No owner is changing that. Yes, the poor ownership of the past is directly related to the problem but that team’s problem going forward will always been the fan support. Mets fans are horrible (imo) bc all they do is whine BUT they show up and support their team (while still whining). Marlins will never have the fanbase to be elite.
hogansgoat
Sorry for the redundancy the message from the site was confusing
NashvilleJeff
Site occasionally posts comments multiple times. If you don’t catch it and cancel the extra comments before the edit button expires, it looks like you’ve repeated the same post. Annoying, but stuff happens………..
Bauer? But I Hardly Know Her!
Good job locking up one of the top young mustaches in the game.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Hard throwing pitchers get seriously injured a lot. As a positional player I would be more likely to bet on myself but as a power pitcher I would take a deal with life changing money at my first opportunity. But this deal also looks ok for the Atlanta ball club even if you factor a 20 percent likelihood of a derailing injury midway through the deal. I am sure that actuaries worked hard.
41em
This deal shows me the Braves have enormous confidence in Strider. This is their first long-term contract extension with a young pitcher. Imagine they had given a deal like this to Mike Soroka after his amazing rookie season in 2019. Soroka has pitched 13 2/3 major league innings in the past 3 years, and no one knows if he will ever return to his rookie brilliance.
Yesterday the Atlanta Journal- Constitution published an interview with Braves chairman Terry McGuirk in which he describes how the Braves financial success, since the new stadium, has allowed them to keep increasing their payroll and he projects that this will continue in 2023 and beyond: ajc.com/sports/atlanta-braves/how-the-braves-built…
chound
It would definitely be an anomaly if the Braves “hit” on all this extensions. In reality though, they don’t have too b/c some are just that damn team friendly.
fre5hwind
Smart
DaOldDerbyBastard
As a Mets fan, I hate what the Braves are doing.
diddlez
They overpaid him for his arbitration years by $12-15 million but saved like $36 million in those two free agent years. Seems like a good deal for both sides.
BobGibsonFan
What about Georgia’s “racist voting rights”? Is MLB ok with them now? It made them woke enough to move the all star game, but now they are ok?
bhambrave
Maybe MLB realizes that they weren’t actually racist.
BrettPhillips for Prezident
Lordy the braves are waaaaay ahead of the curve in finding talent. Props to the AA coaching staff
bhambrave
I feel bad for all of the players not being drafted because the owners have shortened the draft. I think it’s going to bite them in a few years, when they realize the quality of the product is declining.
YourDreamGM
Not me. I would rather be a free agent vs being drafted in 30th round.
Dutch Vander Linde
Too much money for a mediocre pitcher with one good year.
YourDreamGM
Rather pay him instead of 330 or whatever to Cole. Or 40 million a year for Max.
jimthegoat
ITT: People who don’t know what “Super Two” means
Pads Fans
Lots and lots and lots of people that don’t realize what being in the top 2 of ROY voting means for service time. Or how that extra service time effects Super Two qualifications.
jimthegoat
What it means is you get credited with a full year regardless of the actual number of days you spent on the roster and are affirmatively NOT a Super Two because you were given a full year of service time. “Super Two’s” are players who barely missed the full year. Not the other way around. Kris Bryant and Cody Bellinger were Super Two’s, for instance, being arb eligible four times as opposed to the usual three.
MarlinsFanBase
Ugh! To quote Barney from the Simpsons, “Not again!”
The Braves are collecting talent at bargain prices, while the Marlins are paying too much for Avi Garcia and Jorge Soler, The Mets will pay a ton for for Brandon “Sir Only Walks And Nothing Else” Nimmo, the Phillies are paying a fortune to Harper who is the Carmelo Anthony of baseball (OK, but much better), and the Nats can no longer get stars to sign with them.
YourDreamGM
Harper sold and sells lots of tickets etc and great pr. They are very pleased to pay him.
Nats should be happy Soto turned down that contract. They aren’t regretting losing Rendon. Should have let Strasburg leave. I told them but they didn’t listen to me.
MarlinsFanBase
Yeah, selling tickets is all that matters. Winning is irrelevant.
Pads Fans
Phillies are in the WS. Harper was a huge part of that. AND he sells a lot of tickets and merchandise.
Deleted Userr
Soto is going back to the Nats after 2024
bhambrave
Maybe, if they pay him half a billion.
Deleted Userr
I imagine that will be Soto and Boras’ target, yeah.
YourDreamGM
Dynasty. Not a super bargain like Albies Acuna but it’s fine. Core is in place for about as long as you want it to be. Braves fans are setup extremely well.
BaseballisLife
Reading through this thread I think most people are missing a huge point. The Braves made this deal on the assumption that Strider will both be Top 2 in ROY voting, giving him an extra year of service time, and Top 5 in Cy Young voting giving the team an extra draft pick.
The extra year of service time for Top 2 in ROY voting means that combined with his full season on the Braves roster in 2022, Strider would be entering 2024 as Super Two eligible and the Braves would have a year less control.
Now they have him locked in through 2028 with extremely team friendly option in 2029.
Strider just had one of the best seasons for a rookie starter in the arbitration era. His arbitration would have been in line with the highest ever.
Deleted Userr
Bro that’s not how it works just stick to one account.
YourDreamGM
Extra year for Roy. Extra year for winning division. Playoff team extra year. Extra year for having a mustache.
bhambrave
Only if it’s a Top-2 mustache, and it is.
bhambrave
If Strider had 1.169 time on the MLB roster, then he’d be a candidate for Super-Two next year, but he’s got 1.003, so he wouldn’t ever be classified Super-Two unless they send him down.
Deleted Userr
And because they extended him it won’t matter even if they DO send him down.
Pads Fans
Strider will be top 2 in ROY voting. He will receive an extra year of service time for that. That means he will have 2.003 so he will qualify for Super Two.
si.com/mlb/2022/03/11/mlb-collective-bargaining-ag…
jimthegoat
From your link:
“Players who finish in the top two of Rookie of the Year voting will receive a full year of service time.”
It says a full year of service time. Not two years. Since Strider got a full year already based on service time it has no bearing here. And 2.003 years is nowhere near enough to qualify as a Super Two. The lowest the cutoff has been since 2009 is 2.115
jimthegoat
If not for an extension, Strider would have made the league minimum in 2023 and 2024, been Arb 1 eligible in 2025, Arb 2 eligible in 2026, Arb 3 eligible in 2027 and a free agent after 2027. Because he is a likely ROY finalist, if the Braves manipulated his service time all of that would remain exactly the same. The net effect of them not manipulating his service time is that they get an extra draft pick as per the new CBA. Had they manipulated his service time and he was a ROY finalist he’d get credited with a full year of service time and the Braves would get no draft pick.
The extension does not to my knowledge have any bearing on the Braves getting a draft pick.