Long-time fans of the Athletics are probably somewhat accustomed to the boom-and-bust cycle of the club by now, with the team oscillating between contenting and rebuilding throughout the 25-year period since Billy Beane took over as general manager. Although Beane was promoted to executive vice president of baseball operations in 2015 with David Forst taking over as GM, the cycle hasn’t stopped.
However, it’s possible that this up-and-down sequence is now in a deeper valley than ever before. After trading away just about every player making a meaningful salary in the past year, the club finished 2022 with a record of 60-102, their worst showing since losing 108 games in 1979. Financially, the club has stripped the payroll back about as close to zero as a team can get. As MLBTR’s Steve Adams laid out in his recent Offseason Outlook piece, the club has no guaranteed contracts and a small arbitration class, most of whom could plausibly be non-tendered or traded.
Still, the opinion of the front office seems to be that this is a road they’ve been down before. Forst and Beane both spoke to the media this week, with the San Francisco Chronicle’s Matt Kawahara and John Shea both reporting on some of the comments. “As long as I’ve been here and worked with Billy,” Forst says, “we’ve worked with what we’ve got, done our best to put the most competitive team we can out there,” before adding, “I don’t think this is any different from what we’ve dealt with at various times over the last 20-plus years.”
Forst and Beane seem to be aware that the poor results were due to decisions made above field level and aren’t falling at the feet of manager Mark Kotsay. This was his first year at the helm after Bob Melvin departed for the Padres a year ago. “He lost some great players and some critical players, and he handled it as well as you could expect, particularly given your first year,” Beane says of Kotsay’s performance in his first season on the job. It seems that Kotsay won’t be evaluated based on wins and losses for the time being, which makes sense.
Climbing back into contention from this nadir won’t be easy, especially without financial resources. The A’s have never been big spenders, with 2019’s Opening Day payroll of $92MM a franchise record. This year, however, they were barely half that, coming in at $48MM, according to figures from Cot’s Baseball Contracts. Beane tells Kawahara that next year’s payroll is “still in discussion.”
One thing impacting the club’s financial future is the ongoing uncertainty around the stadium situation. The club has been in negotiations with the city of Oakland for quite some time about an ambitious project at Howard Terminal. The club has long hoped to make progress on the $12 billion project this year, before upcoming municipal elections lead to a new mayor and change the face of the city’s council. However, Shea reports that it’s likely to get kicked down to the road until after the elections. If it doesn’t end up working out, the club has explored the possibility of following the example of the Raiders and moving to Las Vegas.
Regardless of the slow progression, Beane remains optimistic. “At some point, we will have a new stadium,” he says. “That’s what makes me feel good. I hope it’s within my tenure. But we will. I think the organization, the city deserve it, and it’ll happen.” Still, until there’s some progress, it seems the team will be in a sort or holding pattern. “The frustration from a team standpoint is, yeah, it would be nice to be at that point where we could have some continuity,” Beane added. “We don’t. And until we have a new venue, we’re not going to.”
Amid all that frustration, Beane doesn’t seem to have given any strong consideration to pursuing outside opportunities. About a year ago, the Mets obtained permission to speak to Beane about a position in their front office, though he withdrew himself from the running. Despite the uncertainty in other areas of the franchise, one thing that can seemingly be counted on is Beane’s presence. “If you project five years from now, I believe I will always have something to do with the A’s, until they don’t want me here,” Beane tells Shea. “What will continue no matter what, until they want to want to kick me out the door, is I will have some involvement and some association always with the A’s, is what I believe. I have no intention of ending that.”
Rsox
Probable 2023 opening day lineup:
C Shea Langeliers
1B Dermis Garcia
2B Jordan Diaz
3B Kevin Smith
SS Nick Allen
LF Connor Capel
CF Cristan Pache
RF Ramon Laureano
DH Seth Brown
Starting Pitchers
Paul Blackburn
Cole Irvin
James Kaprielian
J.P. Sears
Ken Waldichuck
User 401527550
Reminds me of the movie major league. Nobody knows who most of those guys are.
Rsox
At least they’re all alive…
Noel1982
Most of these guys never had a prime
WillieMaysHayes24
“This guy here is dead!”
“Cross him off then.”
.
Where did you play before?
California Penal..
toomanyblacksinbaseball
Except that one has a hot wife who likes to take horizontal batting practice.
uvmfiji
Who owns the Chiefs?
Robertowannabe
who OWNZ OWNZ ………
toomanyblacksinbaseball
I had a car like Reggie, blue T-37 GTO.
BigFred
Are those real player names? I’m thinking some of them are made up.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Overpay
holecamels35
That’s really bad, their tickets should be free. Even when reloading, I feel like the A’s always seem to have low ceiling prospects. No one really blows you away or is a top prospect for as many deals as they make.
LouWhitakerHOF
Poor A’s fans!!
Al Hirschen
Mets should call again
41em
The A’s need a new owner much more than they need a new stadium. It’s up to ownership to lead the way. That hasn’t happened for the A’s in along time.
C Yards Jeff
Yes and no on a new owner for me.
Pros:
1. First Schott and now Fisher, both hands off owners
2. Continuity/stability: Fisher didn’t move on from Beane (25 yr tenure)
Cons:
1. Crappy facility; how many agents of quality free agents said “not interested” because of it?
2. Continuity/stability: Fisher didn’t move on from Beane (25 yr tenure)
Robertowannabe
A new owner really won’t change much of anything. Playing in the ancient Coliseum will still limit revenue. Owners generally do not spend their own money for player salaries for the large part. I still remember a couple of years ago that Mark Cuban, who once tried to buy his hometown Pirates, said that having the deal fall apart was the best thing that could have happened to him. Said the economics of the game are so broken that it does not allow for an owner to compete unless you own one of the top revenue producing teams. All the rest will constantly struggle.
runningred
Except for the Rays?
Robertowannabe
One team out of many. They will cycle too.. They will be dumping players like Glasnow sooner than later. Time will tell if they continue to strike gold on their trades. Their trades have kept them in contention but no team can keep that up. They do not have the revenue streams to keep their top players more than a few years. Eventually the luck will run out. Not hoping for that but odds say they won’t be able to keep it up indefinitely.
MuleorAstroMule
You mean the same Mark Cuban who is hawking crypto scams? He sold Broadcast.com for $5.7B in 1999. He’s now worth $4.6B. He might not be the savvy investor people portray him to be.
SamtheMan!
You’re also completely wrong because Cuban didn’t own the entire company so he never received that much himself.
He sold it for 5.7 BN in stock before he paid taxes to cash it out to Yahoo! . Then he cashed a good deal but not all of it out.
Broadcast.com is now defunct and worthless.
That was one of the biggest coups in history. Cuban’s alright. Horrible info from you.
MuleorAstroMule
Just because Yahoo bought a terrible business does not make Cuban a genius. It makes him a guy who lucked into having his terrible business bought by a larger terrible business. Cuban himself realized he had a terrible business bought by another terrible business when he shorted Yahoo stock after they bought it. All he did was fail upwards. He’s worth billions after creating nothing of value. And he’s never had another venture as remotely profitable.
jbigz12
You just keep adjusting stories.
Now you know he short their stock but didn’t know he didn’t own the whole company?
He bought the Mavs and their asset value has gone straight up. (Like pretty much any professional sports team)
I think selling one billion dollar business is a pretty good life. He’s a sharp guy. If you understand his story he didn’t come from money. He sold a computer consulting firm he started for 6MM. Then got into broadcast.com which he sold for 5B.
xtraflamy
Investing in an exciting contending team with players fans know and love and can celebrate for more than one-three years will bring fans no matter what the stadium is like.
Few fans outside of those who enjoy following the business side of sports are going to celebrate the value of prospects, if their value is purely commodity and do not result in the actual game played on your actual ML team.
holecamels35
These guys aren’t prospects though, they stink. Guys like Pache and others are just minor league fodder with a low ceiling.
cwsOverhaul
Oakland has reached the ALCS once in Beane’s 25yrs (’06) and no other best of 5/7 series wins. Call the playoffs random all you want, results should be better vs the reputation of brilliance.
mlbtrsks
Once in 25yrs? But, but, MoneyBall implied that Beane is a baseball genius!
Halo11Fan
Virtually every team has emulated his theory’s only with a lot more money.
Bean may only be a genius compared to you, but he is a genius compared to you.
extreme113
The Emperor has no clothes.
Bart Harley Jarvis
Considering the subject matter, wouldn’t it be more appropriate to say ‘The Emperor has no balls’?
MuleorAstroMule
Somebody tell the sabermetrics department of every major league team.
toomanyblacksinbaseball
Pretty sure they beat the Twins like Yankees taking BP.
TroyVan
I can’t believe that the A’s have stayed in Oakland this long. They need to get serious about moving. Perhaps that’s the only way to get the ball rolling.
padam
Las Vegas.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Viva
Steinbrenner2728
Maybe because the San Francisco Bay Area is the 5th largest TV market overall in the United States in the league and Vegas being absolute dead last and also a bargaining chip by MLB to make this process go faster?
kodiak920
I know MLB wants to save places like Vegas and Nashville for expansion, but I could see Oakland(stadium) or Washington(MASN) bolt.
Arnold Ziffel
They are looking at 2 sites in Vegas, one of them is the old Tropicana. If they moved there they would draw like a real MLB peak.
Arnold Ziffel
They are looking at 2 sites in Vegas, one of them is the old Tropicana. If they moved there they would draw like a real MLB team
Arnold Ziffel
They are looking at 2 sites in Vegas, one of them is the old Tropicana. If they moved there they would draw like a real MLB team, the support locally would come from a large region along with fans of ream visiting A’s
Steinbrenner2728
This isn’t the NFL Arnold. Now if the A’s do eventually move somewhere, it’s not going to be Las Vegas thats for sure, unless they want to stay there for 5 years before moving to another suitable city. The Raiders already took $750 million from the local government and combined with a water problem and higher hotel fees and taxes to supplement the accommodations for these pro sports teams… Yeah, I highly doubt that.
crise
Plus you have to sell tickets for 82 dates, not just ten huge home dates. Baseball is way harder to maintain excitement for with such high frequency. Hotels might buy a lot of tickets to give away, but that would be hundreds of seats, maybe a couple thousand, not 25000.
Steinbrenner2728
And plus, MLB teams thrive on TV markets and revenue. Just by moving to Las Vegas, they’ll lose a huge chunk of TV viewership by being exclusively closed off in around the territory of Southern Nevada, already by now dominated by Dodgers, Angels, Rockies, Diamondbacks, and even SF Giants fans. The A’s would be crazy to consider that. But keep ignoring the fact that these “Vegas talks” have only ever happened because MLB got so worried over the ‘slow’ process being done between the City of Oakland and the stubborn John J. Fisher.
Arnold Ziffel
Agree, they are looking at 2 sites in Vegas, they would draw well there. A person is risking life and limb going to a night game in Oakland.
Arnold Ziffel
A’s looking at 2 Vegas sites, would’ve a great move for the, night games in Oakland are not safe.
Arnold Ziffel
A’s looking at 2 Vegas sites, would’ve a great move for the, night games in Oakland are not safe
Hello, Newman
Just to make sure, that’s 2 Vegas sites they are looking at?
dirkbill
HA
refereemn77
Washington isn’t moving before Oakland and Tampa have stadiums done.
2012orioles
Second best jerseys in the game behind the Orioles. Not biased at all of course
Shapilier
Both very valid picks for best uniforms in the leauge!
tstats
Houston City Connect might be the single best Alt along with their Sunday retros
detroitfan69
Go bean
Omarj
It needs to end. What an insult to baseball and fans. The owners and league need to step up. New ownership and possible relocate, but c’mon and make the proper changes to properly invest in the team.
Poster formerly known as . . .
Remarkable that in an article about the chronic cheapness of the A’s franchise, the name of the owner, John Fisher, the billionaire heir to the GAP fortune, isn’t mentioned once.
mlbtrsks
Only a con artist would claim that a team’s future is dependent on a new stadium.
Shapilier
History tells us that teams always spend to complement a new stadium…look at the 09 Yankees, 12 Marlins, and the Rangers in the past three off seasons…success may vary wildly
ruff kuntry
I’m optimistic with the group of young prospects the A’s have. I like the pitchers like Waldichuk, Hogland, Ginn, Cusick, Medina, as well as Criswell. Soderstrom is going to be great. Langeliers will be good. Jordan Díaz could be special. Lawrence Butler, Zack Gelof, and Denzel Clarke looked good.
seamaholic 2
The eternal optimist! I love baseball for this. All the kids are going to reach their potential!
passed_balls
As fans of this franchise some of us have to be optimistic. The alternative is too depressing
.
If CT3 is still nursing a hurt neck, why the eff was he put on the NLDS roster instead of Hanser?!?!?!??!?!!?!?
vtadave
Because Hanser’s only value is waving a towel in the dugout.
.
What a terrible thing to say! That is not true and you know it! Take it back!
Rick Pernell
Maybe relocate to Santa Fe, New Mexico? Build a stadium that holds 30,000 and a third of the town could attend. Just a pipedream though because Santa Fe has a lot of impoverished people.
Maybe relocate to Oakland, California? Build a stadium that seats 30,000 people………….
angt222
Weren’t the A’s waiting on the decision for the City of Oakland to decide on building on that new site near the bay? Is Las Vegas still a possibility at all?
nottinghamforest13
Openly heterosexual Billy Beane.
toomanyblacksinbaseball
What? Wait?
Troy Aikens wonders about who wears dresses in the wrong league.
grandsalametime
The A’s will continue to lose every year as long as Bean is at the helm, and they continue to go cheap with the payroll.
Dumpster Divin Theo
What about Beane tho, imagine they’ll have more wins from him than your guy
TheStevilEmpire1
The ongoing saga of professional baseball in Oakland has been a fascinating story. MLB needs to intervene much like the situation in Montreal. Las Vegas or Portland would probably put the wheels in motion to build a stadium today if they got the green light.
I’m not going to bash Beane or Forst. They’ve done the best with what they had to work with and it’s taken a great deal of creativity over the years. Beane and Forst could have left for other teams a long time ago, however, they have almost 100% job security where they’re at. Sometimes job security means more.
The league has caught up with the money ball system for sime time now. It was innovative in its day but teams have new eyes as far as the macroeconomics of a team. It’s fair to say they’ve had to keep evolving moneyball to work, but now it seems the stream is running dry with those type of player’s that use to fuel the system.
The players Beane use to take off the scrap heap in 2000 at a minimum salary now get 5 to 10 million from large market teams just to show up. If they don’t work out they just move on to someone else. This leaves Oakland squinting a lot harder to find those guys.
I dont know if there’s a clear way for them to stay competitive on consistent basis, and this is an issue. It’s an even bigger issue with Pittsburgh and Miami who has newer stadiums and still can’t get right. Other teams like Cincinnati, Colorado, Detroit are also slipping into this void from years of mismanagement.
Samuel
TheStevilEmpire1;
Moneyball was eclipsed by what the Rays started doing under Friedman (now in LA) and the analytical work started by Jeff Luhnow in St. Louis which he then took to the Astros to rebuild their entire organization.
I’m not sure what has remained of Moneyball with the A’s. Many of the do’s and dont’s aren’t done anymore not just by the A’s, but all teams. The best example was when Beane demanded players work the count and take pitches. So in a playoff game against the A’s a Twins pitcher (Reed?) kept throwing the first pitch right over the heart of the plate for Strike 1, and no A’s batter swung. A bit earlier pitching coach Dave Duncan had gotten ahold of statistics showing that that if a pitcher got Strike 1 on the first pitch they had an extremely high chance of getting the batter out. He taught all his pitchers to do that. So in the playoff game here was Beane’s team going into the hole on purpose. Naturally they were shut down that game and lost the series.
Beane was dependent on assistant Paul DePodesta to be his statistical guru. DePodesta went to run the Dodgers for a year or two and that was an utter disaster. He bounced around some in MLB FO jobs as an analyst / consultant type, then surfaced with the Cleveland Browns in the NFL when Mark Shapiro (then running the Indians) convinced the clueless Browns owner that analytics were the future of all pro sports. DePodesta has hung around there since 2016, and got an extension until 2026. Recently he had a major role in overpaying Deshaun Watson guaranteed money to QB the Browns, even as he was awaiting trial on a mountain of accusations from women over sexual harassment.
I don’t see the A’s doing anything numerous other teams aren’t doing. They’ve been a nondescript team for over a decade, with a pretty stable FO core that oversees the cycles as they try to be competitive while they’re holding a group of young players around their 6 years of control. Were the A’s playing in a town that cared about their baseball team the fans and media would have stopped watching them even if they had a decent park.
SamtheMan!
Alternatively they could’ve kept Montas, Chapman, Olson, and Bassit and maybe had a playoff baseball team like they did 3/4 years prior to this one.
But agreed on the FO. The return they’ve gotten back in trades is poor and I haven’t seen any of these guys improve since coming over. I think they’re simply too run of the mil & behind to compete with a tiny budget.
TheStevilEmpire1
@Jbigz44
In regards to keeping Olson,Chapman, and Montas: I agree they could have kept those guys, the only question is for how long? After a certain amount of time, players like the ones you mentioned only lose value with teams like Oakland because they know they have no intention of resigning them.
There’s a window in which they have to move players to maximize their return, and that window for Oakland seems to fall between year 3 to year 5 of service time. That gives the team trading back for the players multiple years and in return sweetens the return of prospects.
SamtheMan!
Right.
I was saying if they had a stadium and a revenue source that is commensurate with the other California teams. They could’ve kept that team together for awhile longer at least.
The FO got garbage back for Chapman. They didn’t get enough for Olson because they believed in a CF who can’t hit and never has. Manaea and Bassit were rentals but I hated their returns as well. Just junk.
I’m not impressed with that work and think they’re behind the curve now. Might be time for an org change.
Dumpster Divin Theo
He absolutely destroyed that locker room setup. Frugal with the pop too
TheStevilEmpire1
I agree with your assessment. What else I find interesting is how a lot of veteran free agents now would rather take a minor league deal with a perennial contender than sign a one year deal in Oakland, Pittsburgh, Miami etc.
Most of these guys would rather play at AAA waiting for the callup to play in a St. Louis than rebuild their value by playing in a place like Oakland. This only adds to the problems for the ” poor teams” or the mismanaged ones.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
I really think Beane would benefit from having a change of scenery in a new franchise. Might be good for both parties.
A’s may get competitive again but the issue is they have such a revolving door that there’s little time for chemistry.
Poster formerly known as . . .
Beane had the opportunity to take the GM post in Boston and later in Flushing with the Mets and turned both down. Maybe he’s not comfortable managing a high-budget franchise where he’d have to compete with other high-budget GM’s who can’t cry poverty when their teams don’t make it to the World Series. Maybe he feels that bargain-hunting is his forte.
crise
It’s really weird how he’s staying here past the point where anyone else would have given up. If the movie was true then his family is grown and gone, so why? Does he have an ownership stake or something?
Poster formerly known as . . .
There you go: you hit the nail on the head. He does indeed have a 4% ownership stake in the A’s.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
He was also in John Henry’s ownership for a sports team if I recall but not sure if that stake stands. We would love to have him in Boston.
Domingo111
Honestly I think billy beane is underrated which is strange considering there was a movie with brad Pitt about him.
In the last 20 seasons 7 of them the As reached 90+ wins and 11 of them he was above 500.
That doesn’t sound super impressive but he did it with one of the worst payrolls essentially every year and even more impressively with an owner who doesn’t spend a lot on development, coaching and analytics either.
What the rays do is similarly impressive but at least the rays owner is willing to spend in coaching and development which the As owner doesn’t.
That is also why beane tends to have those frustrating trade returns with a bunch of older prospects, that kinda sucks but he knows he doesn’t have the coaches to develop younger more raw and higher upside prospects so he gets a couple AAA guys who are only half a year away from making the majors or even guys who already have played in the majors.
People don’t realize how hard winning is under those circumstances if you also have a low payroll (and even if not, see the angels).
Yes I know they didn’t have playoff success and that is very bad but still people should realize how hard it is to win if the owner is neither investing in players nor in off the field stuff.
Really the As should have been the mariners or pirates and made the post season once or twice in the last 20 years but they didn’t and made the playoffs 8 times in the last 20 years, that is a vast overperformance considering their resources.
enricopallazzo
The A’s have the 6th best record in MLB from 2000-2022, so even including this dumpster fire of a season. Pretty impressive with a shoestring budget.
I agree this season they could of held onto players and had a playoff contender, they decided to turn it over a bit earlier than needed but they also like to move players earlier than most small market teams.
Tom the ray fan
So Billy what is the future for the As?
“There is none” well alright you heard it here first folks!
Redstitch108* 2
MLB needs to allow the As to move to San Jose. Giants territory? What a joke. It’s 55 miles from San Francisco. San Jose would have rabid die hard fans for the team no question. See the Sharks. Free San Jose!!!
Dock_Elvis
The A’s magic could have worked out on any various postseason…and never has. That’s the tragedy of this Oakland situation…zero rings to show for all this tumult.