The Marlins are consistently among Major League Baseball’s lower spenders, and it doesn’t seem they’re in for major changes in that regard this offseason. As part of a wider-ranging feature on the state of the franchise, Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald reports that owner Bruce Sherman is “open to increasing (payroll) somewhat this offseason.” Nevertheless, Jackson notes that the organization has shied away from making any public commitments to spending in the $90MM – $100MM range.
The Fish entered the 2022 campaign with a player payroll just south of $80MM, according to Cot’s Baseball Contracts. That ranked as the fifth-lowest Opening Day payroll of the 2022 season, although that was the franchise’s highest placement in payroll rankings since 2018, the first year of Sherman’s ownership.
In the five seasons since the franchise sale, the Marlins have made the playoffs just once, during the pandemic-shortened season. They’ve had a losing record in every 162-game campaign of Sherman’s ownership, although the franchise’s woes stretch well back into Jeffrey Loria’s ownership tenure. Aside from the 60-game year, the Marlins are finishing up their 12th straight losing season. In 10 of those seasons, the Marlins have lost 85 or more games, and, more recently they’ve lost at least 90 games during the past four full years.
Miami was amidst a rebuild for much of that time, but they pushed forward with their most aggressive offseason in years last winter. The Fish signed Avisaíl García to a four-year, $53MM contract and Jorge Soler to a three-year, $36MM deal. Soler can opt out of his contract after this season but assuredly won’t do so after a rough year. Miami also acquired Jacob Stallings from the Pirates and Joey Wendle from the Rays as part of an offensive overhaul.
That series of moves hasn’t panned out as hoped. García is currently set to finish the 2022 season with career lows in batting average (.230), on-base percentage (.267), slugging (.316), and OPS (.583) while striking out a career-high 28.4% of the time. Soler has been marginally better, slashing .207/.295/.400 with a 29.4% strikeout rate. Regardless, neither player has lived up to any expectations put on them when they signed with the Marlins. Stallings is having his worst year since 2018, posting a .225/.294/.297 slash line while surprisingly rating as a below-average defensive catcher. Wendle has been slightly better, hitting .258/.297/.366 while missing time with hamstring strains.
Overall, the Marlins rank near the bottom of the league in most offensive categories. They’re hitting .231 (25th in MLB) with a .295 on-base percentage (27th) and .395 slugging percentage (also 27th). Their 89 wRC+ suggests they’ve been 11 percentage points below league average offensively, the sixth-lowest mark in the league. This is not a new problem for the Marlins, who posted a collective slash line of .233/.298/.372 with the third-lowest wRC+ in 2021.
The starting rotation, on the other hand, has again been productive. Fronted by Cy Young favorite Sandy Alcantara, the group has posted a combined 3.78 ERA (9th lowest) in 839 innings (9th highest). They rank 10th in strikeout rate at 23.2% and have a roughly average 7.6% walk rate. Even with Trevor Rogers taking a step back from his breakout 2021 campaign, Miami has gotten solid work behind Alcantara from Pablo López, Jesús Luzardo, Braxton Garrett and Edward Cabrera.
Miami general manager Kim Ng and her staff will explore the possibility of dealing from that rotation depth in search of controllable offensive help this winter. The trade market may be the more attainable route to bringing in external additions, as Miami already has a fair amount of commitments for next season. The Marlins have around $51MM in guaranteed money on the 2023 books, in the estimation of Roster Resource. They also have a rather hefty slate of arbitration-eligible players, including Wendle, Stallings, Garrett Cooper, Brian Anderson, López and Jon Berti. Miami will presumably trade or non-tender a couple players from that group, but they’re likely to spend upwards of $15MM – $20MM on arb-eligible players even with a few subtractions mixed in.
This is why I feel bad for Marlins fans. I’m not one of these delusional fans who believes owners should reach in their pockets and support payrolls well beyond revenues. But I do believe in investment. No one really knows the potential of the South Florida market because no one has given it a sustained chance to develop.
Ownership that routinely announces it has no interest in investing in the development of a competitive team shouldn’t expect an investment from local baseball fans. Markets can develop. Indy wasn’t a football market until Peyton Manning came to town. When Bill DeWitt purchased the Cardinals, the franchise had been neglected for years. He INVESTED in the team and was rewarded with a stable, profitable, successful product.
People assume the South Florida market will never actively support an MLB team, but that assumption, like many others, could be proven wrong by a person with vision, and commitment to the cause.
I’m on you with this Don, ownership is to careful on spending money they need to start dedicating if they atleast wanna have a chance, and game population at games has gone rock bottom at this point.
Count Bob Nutting out for increasing the payroll of the Pirates
His only goal is turn the largest profit possible
So on with you on that.
Unfortunately the Jose Fernandez phase was the best time to realize that potential with him as the face of the franchise in that community but they messed it up and he did what he did.
@Chemo850
Yes, the Jose Fernandez era was the time to build and invest. Unfortunately his death derailed a lot of things because the Marlins were then never going to be able to have enough pitching to support that offense they had back then.
We have a chance again now with Alcantara and the rest of the SP talent. They need to invest big this offseason. Some may think it’s a wacky pipe dream, but this offseason, the Marlins should go big and all in on Edwin Diaz to solve a big part of their bullpen woes. Along with that, add a couple of bats in the infield – moving on from guys like Cooper, Rojas, etc. Keep Jazz and Fortes, but fill in everything else as possible via trading Pablo Lopez and smart transactions.
I agree that’s a pipe dream haha. They should invest, but a 20 million/yr closer isn’t likely what they need. They need a ton of hitters. And not sure what they are gonna do with Garcia and Soler because they are both dead weight at this point
The mention of a Closer is because we have blown many late-inning leads over these last two seasons – at an insane level. Diaz holding half of those, easily increases our win-totals by about 15 games in each season.
Look locally with what Micky Arison did with the Heat. Prior to him, the previous Heat regime essentially did what the Marlins ownerships have been doing. Arison wrestled majority ownership from that regime, and he invested from there, turning the Heat from a middle-of-the-pack, irrelevant NBA franchise into an elite NBA franchise.
Exactly.
By all means, they should definitely trade from their pitching depth because you can always have too much of that. Who needs a proven pitcher at the highest level when prospects are almost always sure things, right?
Christ, this team sucks! Meyer gets hurt after 2 starts, Sanchez hasnt thrown a pitch in 2 years but by all means trade the only thing that keeps this crappy team afloat for yet another hitter their trash scouting department cant identify.
Who said trade pitching for prospects? The idea is to trade pitching for major league hitting.
A lot of Miami’s problems come to a lack of development for me. I think the latest disasters they’ve made is how they’ve treated Jesus Sanchez and Lewin Diaz this year especially.
Sanchez has no business playing centerfield. He’s clearly a middle of the lineup right fielder that should have been developed as such and focused soley on his bat rather than his ability to play all three outfield positions.. Instead he’s blocked at the corner outfield by Garcia and Soler now who are virtually untradeable and down right dumpster fire grabs. Miami needed to spend last offseason. They did, but they did it fool heartedly.
He spent the year in the majors exhausted playing out of position and over exerting himself instead and his development has nosedived completely because of it.
Diaz Needed the opportunity to play bare minimum part-time by June, and full time by august. Instead They gave everyday at bats to Aguilar, and Cooper. Hoping to trade one of them.
He might never be a high average hitting 1b, but if you don’t give him the chance to get a proper feel for mlb pitching in an extended look he never will be one to begin with.
I don’t really feel the Wendle signing and the stalling trade was all that bad all things considered. Miami’s been trotting out Isan Diaz hoping to save any grace from the Yelich deal for years now and wendle has plenty of versatility.
Stallings numbers may be dreadful, but it’s hard to argue what he’s done with that pitching staff this year and considering it’s not a premium position for the numbers I think you gladly take what you can get from him if he’s keeping up that much productivity out of your young arms.
There’s no complaints on the pitching side of the coin, but they need to desperately move from it to acquire the talent they need across the diamond. The idea of trading Cabrera is foolish to me. He’s got way too much upside, he’s proven he’s a bare minimum #3 starter with upside that just needs to get his control under wraps.
They missed their window on moving Rodgers who i believe was the ideal trade candidate for them. You just traded for luzardo whose pitched well enough, but is as fragile as Mr. Glass from Unbreakable.
I don’t see guys like potetet or garret commanding much on the open market. They’ve clearly dedicated this staff to building it around Alcantara as they should be considering he’s arguably had two essentially cy young caliber seasons back to back for them.
They have Sanchez whose got more issues at this point than i think they even know or want to deal with and eury Perez in the wings, but nobody’s gonna buy high on prospect value or pedigree there. Why that hasn’t changed in baseball circles among the elitists has puzzled me for years considering the direction this game is going right in front of us with how many young prospects in todays game are truly swimming vs sinking in rookie seasons.
I think by default it’s Pablo that needs to go. nothing against the guy, but considering what he would command from the open market the Fish are fools not to entertain all and every offer on him.
This team desperately needs a CF though. Why they haven’t ponied up the price tag for Reynolds or even other options is beyond me considering the dollars and control attached and the capital in the minors and majors that the pirates would gladly take for him. The fans have had enough of the days of De La Rosa, Brinson, Harrison, etc trotting out there expecting upside to elevate their abilities.
More than anything it’s frustrating being a marlins fans watching alcantara have 10 win seasons 20+ qs numbers with great whip and era numbers and the strikeouts to back it. He’s literally a 20+ game winner easily on a contending team. It’s just that Miami isn’t.
Ownership needs to develop a direction and it’s really hard to do considering where you sit on one side of the coin and the fact that you’ve got the Mets and braves in front of you who are not only beyond established with talent, they have a clear sense of direction and intent that they are going with and are consistently spending money on this roster or developing holes on the team from within. I really do feel for the fans of Miami, but it’s hard to establish a culture in an environment where your option of leisure entertainment is a baseball game vs enjoying the open ocean in Florida and California Markets. It’s not to say it can’t be done. LA and Tampa are doing fine all things considering, but without the commitment and giving the team less than they deserve the fans just won’t support bad baseball and thats a given.
Anyone who trusts this teams abilities to trade from pitching to acquire hitters is a fool, especially after the disasters that have been the Yelich trade, and their acquisitions this past offseason of the 4 “proven” MLB players. Not only do they not have the ability to identify actual talent, they lack the coaching staff to actually instruct players in order to improve on weaknesses. Id much rather they hold onto pitching talent and get a hitting coach who actually has a modicum of an idea on what they are doing.
Other than Lopez, they should probably non-tender that entire group. Just bring up minor leaguers until some of them start playing well. No point in committing/wasting years to below average players with limited ceilings.
I would very much keep Berti and probably roll the dice with Cooper. Anderson is a great defender, but a very inconsistent bat.
My case with Berti is the value on his versatility, his OBP is fine and leads the NL in steals. That cannot be ignored.
Cooper is the perfect complement to Lewin at 1st base, still cheap and solid bat even though he fell of a cliff after the ASG.
I move on from Cooper. Determine what to do with Anderson based on acquisition possibilities and these final few games by Anderson. Stallings may be my backup to Fortes next year. Berti is a bench piece you gotta keep or can be traded.
Lopez is the trade chip.
Sixto Sanchez is decent but he gets a lot.
The best thing the Marlins can do this off season is to sign Carlos Rodon to a long term deal, adding a starter of his caliber alongside Alcantara would make for a rotation that is formidable for years to come, and would allow the team to trade controllable starters for controllable offensive prospects.
The Marlins should also make Yermin Mercedes their everyday DH, acquire him from the Giants or sign him in FA, he could be Rodon’s personal catcher, and has the bat to DH for the Marlins everyday. In Mercedes you get an everyday DH and a backup catcher.
Chisholm and Mercedes would be fire, everybody sleeping on Yermin, he is going to break out in a big way, and has a ton of charisma, will light a fire under Avisail, being reunited with Rodon, both came up with the White Sox. If Soler finds a couple good seasons, and the Marlins add the right pieces in the trade market, they could compete for a playoff spot next season.
What Miami needs is bats, not starters.
Lol the only team Yermin Mercedes can help is in the Mexican winter league, he’s washed and not worth $15.
Mercedes has one (1) Home Run for the Giants this season and has caught one (1) inning behind the plate this season and all of three innings at the big league level. With Mercedes you don’t get a “DH and a backup Catcher” you get AAA roster filler.
I watched his at bats, he has a great swing and a great eye, takes a lot of walks, and the power is there.
He went .250 / .350 in AAA this season, it was a down year and it’s a big step up but Mercedes is going to catch on one of these days.
He is teammates with Rodon now a while, be nice to reunite them with Avisail, all came up with the White Sox, that stuffs important sometimes. Marlins fans shouldn’t sleep on Avisail Garcia, I been a White Sox fan most of my life, I remember when Avisail Garcia came up with the Sox, he was an exciting prospect, hit .330 one season, he has a big build at 6’4 240, guy is a great hitter.
“Catch on one of these days”
“Shouldn’t sleep on Avasail Garcia”
How old do you think these guys are? Mercedes is about to be 30, and Garcia will be 32. Garcia is past whatever prime of his career, and Mercedes didn’t have one.
Sign Rodon and trade controllable starters for prospects?
1)past and present front offices included, what gives you any inclination to believe the marlins would be able to successfully acquire good hitting talent?
2)what sense does it make to PAY for a starter and give up controllable pitching for PROSPECTS, when they could keep the young/talented and cheap pitchers and just allocate the money you want to give Rodon towards just signing proven hitters on the market, something which the Marlins also havent shown any ability to do. (Garcia, Soler)
Well hitters can be fickle I guess, and Rodon isn’t just another pitcher, if Alcantara doesn’t win the Cy Young this season it should be Rodon. Why not sign the best player available on the market, that’s Rodon, and take your chances on building up the offense with prospects and with trades.
That’s the way I see it anyways.
As far as 30 and 32 year old players go, Albert had a big year this year and he is nearly 40, while neither Avisail or Yermin are quite the hitter Pujols is, both have potential to put together some good seasons.
Pujols struggled with the Angels, plodded through those years, but he’s been one the best hitters in baseball back with his buddy Molina, and back in the place that holds his legacy, so that stuff has a lot to do with bringing out the best in a player.
As far as Avisail goes, maybe having Rodon and Yermin around can bring out the best in him, it’s an added bonus to signing Rodon who is one of the ten best starting pitchers in baseball.
I think we’ve found either Yermin Mercedes or his agents burner account
Yep, I am sitting back with my popcorn to read these Yermin Mercedes posts..
Hmmm…Yermin Mercedes. The only Mercedes I would not take for free.
Team doesn’t spend but its the sport that passed Don Mattingly by, says SamueL.
Marlins have nothing to show why they won’t be losing ~90 games for the next two seasons. Possibly longer
Offensively Stallings and Wendle are right about where there numbers would normally be and Stallings was acquired for his defense and game calling, which has been a difference maker for the starting staff after having Jorge Alfaro as the primary Catcher for 3 seasons.
Garcia and Soler have been disappointments. Let Sanchez play in one corner and one of Garcia/Soler in the other and one as DH and bring in an actual Center Fielder. I’ve said before the Marlins have more corner Outfielders than they have Outfield corners, adding more to that mix is just plain irresponsible at this point
which has been a difference maker for the starting staff
==================================
Do we really know that? Miami’s ERA+ in 2021 was 107, and it dropped to 103 in 2022. The rotation was pretty much the same, with Garrett & Cabrera coming on, but that should be a positive.
If anything, with a rotation of Alcantara, Lopez, Rogers, Luzardo, Garrett, and Cabrera, I’m thinking an ERA+ of only 103 is extremely disappointing.
Marlins keep trying to repeat 2003 formula, but just not working fielding an undeveloped AAA team every year..
They should look at the Astros with all that starting pitching depth and sign Rodon for 5 years 130M, and work to fill out the roster.
They’d have
Alcantara
Rodon
Perez
Cabrera
Lopez (Meyer)
For the next five seasons – and they’d have Braxton Garrett and Trevor Rogers to dangle for trades, two blue chip prospects, two major league ready controllable starters, that could bring a nice return.
That pitching staff has the potential to the best starting rotation in the league, if they stay healthy.
Then you have to pick around and find some gems in the sea, not easy to do but if you can sign Yermin and committ to him getting everyday at bats he will be a good fit in the clubhouse and will be a net positive in terms of production.
I know you are big on Rodon signing with the Marlins but they are not giving out any $100 million dollar contracts anytime soon. Rodon will look to latch on to a contender and that is not the Marlins at this point.
I forgot about Luzardo, signing Rodon would give the Marlins three major league ready, blue chip prospects to dangle in the trade market, that could bring back some bullpen help, some offensive prospects.
Be a tough call, trading Luzardo, he could be really good.
But signing Rodon is the key to it all, because he solidifies the rotation to the point where you can safely trade away your pitching prospects.
Miami could win the NL East with Rodon and Yermin on board.
What the hell is with this dudes obsession with a guy who has all of 346 PA to his name at nearly 30 years old and projecting this guy as some kind of savior?
Bro, he had one month in each of the last 2 seasons where he hit out of his mind, everything outside of that and he was straight trash? Unless you are Yermin Mercedes, there is no reason for you to be riding his junk like this.
I have to believe the whole Rodon+Mercedes=World Series Championship thing has to be some kind of trolling and not actually serious (if actually serious please seek help)
I’ve been a White Sox fan most of my life, and Mercedes was awesome with the Sox, so I’m a fan.
My favorite player is Trout, Trout is great, and I watch Trout ABs and I watch Yermin hit and I see Trout. They have the same swing, but Yermin has a little waggle in his bat and loads up a little more before the pitch arrives, and Trout keeps his shoulders square and times the pitch a little better than Yermin, but Yermin is close, a small adjustment and Yermin is a .270/.350 /.425+ type of player, I guess I believe in that quite a bit and am rooting for the guy to get an opportunity. His window is closing up, he has two or three years to make an impact, and in those seasons prove that he is as good of a hitter and a player as he is so that he can earn a three or four year deal into his mid thirties, that is important to him, and as a fan I put it out there, because in order to do so he needs to get everyday at bats in MLB.
I also believe that even with Sixto Sanchez coming back, who I had forgotten about too, that the Marlins would be best off signing Rodon this off season to a long term deal, that would give them four controllable starters to deal in trades. That’s my take on the Marlins.
In order to repeat the 2003 formula, they’d need to spend on guys that they can then trade away for prospects. 2003 happened because they traded away everyone who made any kind of money after 1997. Derrick Lee, Mike Lowell, Braden Looper, etc were acquired directly from trades of those players and a host of others that contributed to the 2003 team were acquired indirectly through several layers of trades whose origin was the 1997/98 offseason.
In other words, the Marlins would need to spend first on a few free agents, but they won’t because they’re cheap and have no interest in winning.
They also need to draft and sign well.
SS-Alex Gonzalez
2B-Luis Castillo
SP-Josh Beckett
3B/LF-Miggy Cabrera
Other good trades: Juan Pierre, Dontrelle Willis, Carl Pavano, Brad Penny, AJ Burnett (even though he got hurt), Juan Encarnacion.
Smart signings: Ivan Rodriguez, Mark Redman.
The problem is they can’t repeat 2003. 2003 was a series of everything starting wrong and finishing right. Jack McKeon replacing Jeff Torborg didn’t seem like a world changing move at the time, the Marlins were 9 games behind the Braves and 5.5 behind the Expos in the Wild Card race. McKeon along with Ivan Rodriguez really made a difference on that team. The Marlins could try 100 times to duplicate that season and never come close
@Rsox
Agreed. 2003 was a rare season in MLB terms. I consider the Marlins 2003 season a miracle season that was in line with the 1988 Dodgers and the 1969 Mets. Very rare occurrences when teams are expected to be awful, but have a championship season.
The change from Torborg to McKeon was a gigantic upgrade because Torborg simply was a bad manager while McKeon had gone through so many experiences that it helped bring a young team. Ivan Rodriguez was hungry, which was great for his leadership. And a forgotten element to their team was Ozzie Guillen as their 3B Coach and doing what he did, which led to him getting his job with the White Sox after. While Ozzie is nuts, that lack of sanity helped as a coach under McKeon who kept it restrained to be useful.
Many things fell into place that year, but it was a rare year. I figure we only see teams like that ever couple of decades or so (1969, then 19 years later, 1988, then 15 years later, 2003).
There’s no reason this team can’t support a 100 million payroll at the minimum. The Soler and Garcia contracts look horrendous. Hopefully one of the two can rebound next year at a minimum.
They need to make a splash. Someone of the Andrew Benintendi mold to help the lineup and they also need to visit maybe trading Pablo Lopez or Trevor Rodgers for a Gleyber Torres or Sean Murphy. That along with a returning Jazz would really help because this has been the worst offensive team I have seen in quite some time.
@stretch123
How about this as a big free agent signing? Since our bullpen is in dire need for a Closer, and it’s been a major factor in many losses for the last two season, how about we go all in on Edwin Diaz? 7 years at the highest AAV to outbid everyone because he fills a major need that could impact game results immediately as we hold a lot more leads than we do now.