Cardinals outfielder Tyler O’Neill missed almost a month in the middle of this season, from mid-June to mid-July, due to a left hamstring strain. He went back on the IL September 17 due to the same injury, a left hamstring strain. At the time, it was reported as a Grade 1 strain, which is the less-serious variety. Regardless, over a week later, an O’Neill return doesn’t seem close.
Team president John Mozeliak was asked about the possibility of O’Neill returning in the postseason and had this to say, per Jim Hayes of Bally Sports Midwest: “I think there’s a shot, but obviously the clock is ticking.” That doesn’t seem to indicate the Cards are banking on a return. The club has now clinched the NL Central but are seven games behind the Mets and Braves, who are tied atop the East, and even further behind the Dodgers. That means they are destined to play in the first round of the playoffs against whoever finishes with the third Wild Card spot. Each round that they survive will increase the chances of O’Neill coming back, but he wouldn’t be able to find a rehab stint with the minor league seasons winding down. Even if he’s healthy, the Cards would have to view a rusty O’Neill as a better option than their current outfielders in order for him to get a shot.
O’Neill had a career year last year by hitting 34 home runs and swiping 15 bases on his way to producing 5.6 wins above replacement, according to FanGraphs. This year, various injuries have limited him to just 96 games and diminished production when on the field, with his .286/.352/.560 batting line from last year slipping to .228/.308/.392. Without him in the mix, the St. Louis outfield is currently composed of Lars Nootbaar, Dylan Carlson, Corey Dickerson, Juan Yepez, Alec Burleson and Ben DeLuzio.
More notes from the Central divisions…
- Twins right-hander Chris Paddack underwent Tommy John surgery in May and is now targeting an August 2023 return, per Do-Hyoung Park of MLB.com. The surgery usually comes with a 12-18 month recovery window, but this is the second such procedure of Paddack’s career, having previously gone under the knife as a prospect in 2016. Paddack tells Park that the second recovery is going to take a bit longer, meaning the narrow end of the typical recovery window is closed. Since the best-case scenario involves Paddack missing the bulk of next year, the club will have to plan on building a rotation without him. He was just one of several Twins who missed significant time with injury this year, preventing them from hanging onto the AL Central lead that they held for a good chunk of the year. On paper, the 2023 rotation in Minnesota consists of Sonny Gray, who is sure to have his option exercised, alongside Tyler Mahle, Joe Ryan and Bailey Ober for four slots. Kenta Maeda could be a factor for the fifth, though he’ll be an unknown quantity after missing all of this year recovering from his own Tommy John surgery of the internal brace variety. Dylan Bundy and Chris Archer both have options that are unlikely to be exercised, subtracting them from the equation. The club could look for outside help given the uncertainty around Maeda, though they will also have internal options like Josh Winder, Louie Varland, Cole Sands, Jordan Balazovic, Devin Smeltzer and Simeon Woods Richardson, with Paddack hopefully joining them down the stretch.
- Cubs infielder Nick Madrigal is on the injured list and won’t be returning this season, manager David Ross tells Meghan Montemurro of the Chicago Tribune. Madrigal landed on the shelf September 10 due to a groin strain, his second groin-related trip to the IL this year. It’s the second straight injury-marred campaign for him, after he was limited to 54 games in 2021 and just 59 here in 2022. He hit .305/.349/.425 last year but saw that line dip to .249/.305/.282 in this campaign. He came into this season with one year and 164 days of MLB service time, meaning he’s a lock to reach arbitration as a Super Two player this winter, though he likely won’t earn a huge raise given all the time he’s missed. The Cubs aren’t likely to be competitive in 2023 but will still want to see Madrigal show better results in order to keep him in their plans going forward.
“Aren’t likely to be competitive in 2023”. Can we get through the off-season before anyone makes that assumption? Dang.
The Cubs’ have 86 games decided by two runs or less which is the most in MLB ahead of the Pirates (83). 40-46 record in those games. They also have played 51 one-run games, third-most in the majors. They got young guys, and more coming. They add in a few places, and 2023 is interesting at least, and competitive at best.
True, but competitive is still a best case scenario only if nearly everything goes right.
Agree 100%. Just pointing out the team is closer than a lot of pundits apparently feel.
I’m hoping that they make the right additions, subtractions, and figure out Contreras situation to the point of at least making the team fun to watch again. I’ll take a season ending series to decide the 2nd Wild Card spot fall short of success.
The thing about the cubs not being competitive in 2023 is crap. Get through the off-season first before making that assumption.
One thing that may make them competitive is signing Correa (or other SS), moving Hoerner to second base and using Madrigal wisely off the bench or in a trade. His fragility probably led him to become available from the White Sox. I’m guessing that he’s a borderline cornerstone asset at this point.
Why not sign Xander Bogaerts as well? One can DH when he other is playing SS. They can rotate. Keeps them fresh, and if they have a nagging injury they can still bat.
And Jacob deGrom seems healthy. He’d fit perfectly atop their starting rotation.
Mike, Madrigal is borderline useless, I hate to say. I believe Quiroz is more valuable.
Although I don’t agree that Madrigal is useless, He does need to figure out how to play the game at a, Shall we say, Less amped up level to make sure he doesn’t tear himself up. He’ll probably never be the player everyone thought he would be because playing 50 or so College Games a year is way different than lasting through a 162 MLB season. What I do agree with you on is Quiroz. he is very intriguing to me having known nothing about him until recently. He doesn’t look like your typical stud player, But he can play 3 IF positions( Or so I’ve heard, I haven’t seen him play 3rd yet), He can hit, He’s smart, He’s a gamer and more importantly he’s LH. He’s certainly earned an invite to Spring and I could even see him and Morel being 2 excellent backup players next year. It’s a short sample size to be sure, But he looks like a keeper, If for nothing else than Minor League depth if he can’t find a gig in the Majors next year.
Guys, guys, guys—-Quiroz literally has seven more games at the major league level for the Cubs—-he is nowhere near as valuable as Madrigal.
He’s 30 and a nice three week story.
I still say if it was up to me: I’d trade Happ. He has 1 more year left and he’ll be getting a big raise in arbitration. Maybe they can get a reliever who had a bad year and makes too much money and might have a bounce back year for him. 2 problems solved in getting another reliever and clearing the way for Canario or PCA. PCA will at worst start out at AA next year and if he dazzles in the AFL I could see him at AAA. I would trade Madrigal and see if I could get something for him, I don’t think he’s gonna be here frankly because if the Cubs do sign a SS and slide Hoerner over, he’s irrelevant. They really need to trade for a 3B or sign a FA one with some power who can actually HIT the ball, Wisdom can’t which is sad because he can do everything else. I don’t think they need a SS but I have no idea what they want.
I agree with you and I’m far from a Cubs fan obviously….but come on man at least wait until February to say that.
@cards06 i’m with ya, as a fellow cards fan i have a great distaste for the cubbies, but to say next year is going to be a wash is very premature, (bleep) we haven’t even hit fa yet. now are the cubs going to be ws contenders next year, maybe but imo that’s a stretch. tbh i think the cubs are knocking on the door but there 2 years away from being a team you have look out for. the cubs have made great strides rebuilding after theo built up the farm and at the same time depleted trying for ws 2/3. tbh the 23 season is a “figure out what we have season” than a lost season. what i mean by that is the cubbies have dug themselves out of the hole theo put you in, but i feel like the cubs should take a step back and wait on singeing a big ticket item (i.e. like a carlos, or trea) unless that big ticket is still going to help you in 24 and beyond. the way i look at the cubs unlike “a lot of the experts” is i watch them play my birds like 50 games a year, and this year they showed that there not scrubs, they have talent just unproven talent (i can see that in the games vs the cards, one game they look like ws champs then the next game they look like a little league team). imho what i think the cubbies need to do this offseason is look at the big ticket items and determine are we going to be legit in 23, and not a team that if x,y,z come together we have a shot. long and short i look at 23 as an assessment year not a lost year, if anything sign 1 big ticket that is going to still going to be worth his weight in 24+. the way i see it 23 is the year cubs add a big ticket item but also take a step back and see what the kids you brought up can do in year 2 of mlb level of ball, and if they can prove they can “hang” and if your in contention for the division or a wc, then get ballsy at the deadline, but imo what’s best for the cubbies in the long run is to build up there depth and get a fa that has ps experience that can help you when get out of your retool.
I could see them signing a proven frontline pitcher and SS next season. The addition of Lester and Zobrist to that young team in ’13/’14’ was essential to the 15′, 16′ teams. Where they’re further along now as opposed to then is in young, starting pitching. Steele, Thompson and Wesnewski will have some growing pains, but are a solid nucleus to build around. (The Cub’s starters are third in ERA since the all star break.) They lack power bats but they have 2, Mervis and Canario that hit 35 and 36 HRs this season that will probably get more than a look at the majors next year. There is a lot more talent in their farm that I haven’t mentioned… Maybe not next season, but they’re coming..
3rd. 21st in FIP. fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&…
Lol at thinking Lester signed w the cubs in ‘13 and Zobrist in ‘14. Lester won a championship with Boston in 13 and was traded to Oakland in ‘14 and signed with the Cubs in ‘15. Zobrist won a World Series with the Royals in ‘15 and then signed with the Cubs for ‘16.
@nico that’s not a bad plan, tbh last time coming out of the rebuild you guys picked up the guys listed above and i believe them guys broke that “losing culture” you had. imho every team needs a few vets that have ps/ws experience. i just hope for cubs fans jed doesn’t act like a teenager that just hit puberty and wants to (bleep) everything that moves or in this case try and buy a ws like aj. if the cubs go for a big ticket item this offseason they need to get that lester type fa, basically a guy who is a stud but also can mentor and/or kick the kids in the a$$ when needed
Nice Cubs burn. It might hurt their feelings but it’s important to remind cubs fans where they rank going forward
Padres fan? How many WS titles do you have?
He’s still waiting for all the talent on that team to be relevant. For the first time, in at least 24 years.
The Cubs have the pitching to be a Playoff team next year with maybe a couple of tweaks. A reliable 8th or 9th inning guy and a reliable Playoff caliber starter would go far with all the kids in reserve. The bullpen is deep now but maybe needs a playoff tested closer type. The hitting is a different story. There is still way too much swing and miss. They need a 3B, It’s the one thing they don’t have coming anytime soon. Gomes needs a partner whether it’s Contreras or some one else like maybe Murphy from the Athletics would be a nice add. They need some LH bats and assuming Mervis makes the leap, a LH hitting 2B would also help Ross out immensely. Morel as a super sub and maybe a stop gap CF until PCA makes the leap. They are not that far away as people think I think McKinstry and Bote are Cannon Fodder and 4o man place stealers but maybe that’s just me. Neither impresses me. You can’t count on Madrigal and the way he plays just leads to him being injured with his body type. If they could get something for him and Happ I’d trade both of them.
Uncle—I don’t quite agree on the statement that the bullpen is deep. Granted they traded their top four arms there at the break—some very positive returns on that—but it is the bullpen the second half that let’s people make comments that they won’t be contenders.
Very much under the radar the starting pitchers have the third best ERA in baseball since the break and that goes along with “relatively” good health in the second half of Stroman, Smyly, Steele, and Thompson….I know most have recently miss a handful of starts but it was probably time to gear them back some.
Obviously, the depth of the pen will come from, all things staying the same, a pick of guys like Assad, Wesneski, Killian and Sampson that don’t make the rotation to join a signee, Stroman, Steele, Thompson, Hendricks…
The one thing, and sooner or later luck runs out, that Jed has been able to do is build quality pens—in the last two years he has had very, very good pens and ended up trading Chafin, Tepara, Kimbrel in 21 and Robertson, Martin, Gyvens, and Effross this year.
There seems to a very good quantity of pitchers now and some of those show the added flash of quality.
The offense has to be improved immensly—-they need both corners, are most likely losing Contreras so need a catcher, I’m sure will fill in the second base void by signing a shortstop and moving Hoerner to the other side.
Seiya has shown that he will be a productive major leaguer—-and with the depth in the minors being in the outfield it will be interesting how that is used to supplement or supplant Happ—and which of those prospects can be dangled in packages.
Trading Happ at this time, is not a smart move. I know it’s a ‘trendy idea’.
Happ is a good player and a LH bat! Cubs need more LH hitting, not less of it.
Sell high I always say. He’s not going to get any better.
Cubs Bullpen next year so far
Hughes
Rodriguez
Estrada
Uehlman
Rucker
Alzolay
Thompson- One of Alzolay or Keegan longman
Leeper
Maybe Horn is the other Leftie
Heuer back at some point
Sampson
Starters
1.Stroman
2. Steele
3. Wesneski
4. Hendricks
5. FA starter
6. Killian
7. Asad
8. Whoever else advances faster next year
I’d call that pretty deep and a really good start.
@unclemike i’m doubting that the cubs pen is good (heck i’ve seen enough of them this year and not once yes cubs are in the pen now) and if things stay the same no reason they won’t be good next year, but me personally until about may of next season i consider all pen’s trash. i only feel that because every year about 1/2 of them yo-yo one year tops in bb next year one of the worst. also how rp’s are used nowadays wouldn’t surprise me if a lot of them burn out by the seasons end and haven’t fully recovered/rested by next season and burn out quicker or just don’t have to start with because they flamed out last season
Assad was a flash in the pan. Killian needs more seasoning. Your FA pitcher will be Rodon.
uncle–I appreciate the list—I just differ on my opinion of deep.
To me—Chafin, Tepera, and Kimbrel is deep.
To me–Robertson, Gyvens, Martin and Effross is deep
To me–I really think Hugues is good—but the other guys are just names that any of 30 teams can throw on a chalkboard That’s not depth. Like I said in my previous post, if there is depth to be found it is in the guys that don’t make the rotation (perhaps Sampson, Killian, Assad–but that is a BIG perhaps)—we are listing guys with really no valuable experience—much like you listing Little, Rodriguez, Uehlman, Estrada…..
Just a difference in the way I definedeep.
Goes back to the old football adage—-if you have three quarterbacks all that means is that you don’t have one quarterback.
A tandem of Gomes/PJ Higgins will work just fine. I was thinking they would need Contreras, but seeing how well they have been without him the last three weeks makes me think otherwise. I also feel the 5 SP next year may look like Rodon, Steele, Stroman, Hendricks, Wesneski. Thompson, Sampson will go back to the pen. Madrigal, Wisdom to the bench. Bote will be 3B if he can stay healthy. Mervis is legit.
@qu point: I like your viewpoint, but I don’t think they gamble on Rodon – unless he comes affordable. Too much likelihood of another injury. They should bring in, another playoff quality SP. I think Thompson and Sampson and Smyly will be the extra SPs, with Sampson riding the Iowa shuttle. Wesneski looks very good, and I complained at the time of the trade because we lost Effross. Now – THANK YOU YANKEES.
Mervis is for real.
But Bote – him and Madrigal – no no no.
They’d need more than just a couple of tweaks to their pitching staff. Even if Hendricks rebounds next year, that only gives them him and Stroman as current starting pitchers you’d feel even slightly comfortable starting in a playoff game, while their current bullpen is decent at best.
Lanidrac, it’s very obvious you haven’t seen the Cubs play too often this year. Because if you did, you would have noticed Justin Steele establish himself into a reliable and possibly a future #2 SP for next year. And Hayden Wesneski pitch lights out, in all of his starts at the MLB level.
They do need another reliable arm or two in the pen. And another LH hitting infielder along with Mervis.
There’s starting to be some talk of Horton starting out next year working as a closer somewhere to fast track him to the Majors. Their decision to not start Horton, Ferris and Mule pitching anywhere this year was curious to me. I know the Cubs are proud of their Arizona facility and teachers for developing pitching and it seems to be working well. This will be a very interesting Winter to say the least. What will Jed and Carter do? Who will they go after? Who will they protect? Lots of questions but no obvious answers. I agree though, I don’t want Rodon, I saw enough of his name on the IL on the South Side.
Uncle M, – – Horton, Ferris and Mule are all young guys who probably are close to their personal pitch limits. And even if they aren’t, the Cubs don’t need these guys to try to impress anyone, they want them healthy going into next year. Let them gather their strength and focus on getting ready for next season. They will have plenty of time and time opportunity to find their way, come next season’s assignments.
OK, I’ll give you Steele. He’s been good.
Wesneski has gotten off to a good start, however, has only thrown 27 MLB innings, so he still needs to prove he’s for real.
That gives you two #2-3 starters with Steele and Stroman, a #4-5 starter in Hendrcks, and whatever Wesneski gives you. That’s better than I thought but still only a decent rotation with no ace, only four pitchers, and no decent extra depth behind them. The Cubs will still need to open the checkbook to bring that up to a competitive level alongside everything else they need.
oneill should have went to new york, instead of bader
Bader doesn’t have the upside O’Neill does. Both are elite defenders, however, Bader isn’t anywhere near O’Neill’s ceiling as far as an offensive threat. O’Neill simply has a longer leash based solely on his power potential alone.
oneill is a muscle bound injury waiting to happen
It was just last year O’Neal hit 34 homers and finished 8th in MVP voting. I like Bader too, but he will never do that.
I don’t understand people who make the argument O’Neill should have gone instead of Bader, based on what? If Bader got on base more maybe, maybe there’s a argument? O’Neill got MVP votes, Bader never even got close to having that type of season. Don’t ever think Bader will ever receive MVP votes. He’s a glove first outfielder, who doesn’t get on base enough or steal enough bases to make use of his elite speed? Oniell has all that and he steals bases… If he stays healthy he will be a better option going forward by far
oneill will physically break down, quickly
I would agree in saying that its premature to say the Cubs won’t contend in 2023, however, the fact is they aren’t close to contending right now.
If you’re a Cubs fan, do you trust Ricketts when he says they will spend to contend? Call me a skeptical onlooker. They need a cornerstone hitter (or two) to build around, a legitimate ace, and a number two starter before considering a return to contention.
Going from 70ish victories to winning a division the next season is a tall order. St. Louis will still be St. Louis. Milwaukee will do the necessary tweaks to stay relevant.
I dont trust the Ricketts as much as they’ve lied to their fans about spending.
Totally agree on Ricketts. However the Cubs needs regards to pitching is: 2- Accomplished relievers, and 1- playoff quality starter.
Don’t overlook Wesneski. He appears to be a stud.
So you’re counting on a breakout from this Wesneski kid, Stroman, an unlikely bounceback from Hendricks, a free agent, and a black hole at the back of the rotation with no depth behind them to get you through next season? Dream on!
They have the third best starting rotation ERA in baseball since the all star break. Hoping for a breakout is not that far fetched.
Yes it is. Does their talent say third best staff in MLB? Talent and staying healthy are what will hold true over the long run. Do you really think the list you came up with is top 5 in talent in MLB? I would call it middle of the pack at best. Don’t let a short-term run (good or bad) deceive you.
Also, I love how you refer to team ERA to judge the starters, but it was dismissed earlier this year when team bullpen ERA was pointed out to argue their bullpen is not good.
The Cubs payroll for next year is 91 million. That’s WITH Heyward’s 24 million included, which will go down a tad once he’s released and signed to a minimum deal somewhere else. So you don’t think Ricketts will spend any money to improve the team? REALLY? He spent billions fixing up the stadium and the rest of the block with no help from the City. He started a TV station and then had COVID happen. And yet you say he’s cheap? Do you even listen to yourself? The Tax line is 233 million next year, I think there’s room for an improvement. Get a grip Bone.
Certainly, he’ll spend money, just like he did on Stroman and Suzuki last offseason. While I did forget about Justin Steele, the Cubs still have just too many holes to fill through one offseason spending spree to become competitive as early as next year unless they get very lucky.
There’s no point to rush him back for two measly playoff games. Besides, two games in a row is a lot of risk for him. He’s liable to get a hangnail and need an off-season lobotomy
You are the one who assumes the media paid pitchers to allow Pujols to get to 700 hr. Don’t you think they would like to push the Pujols/Molina/Wainwright riding off in the sunset with World Series rings? You might watching a lot of Cardinal Red the next 5 weeks!
I don’t assume it. It’s fact. They don’t care about St. Louis and its tiny market. No one does. That’s why the fabrication was done in LA. Not only for better production but also to cement his legacy as a Dodger.
I guarantee you they won’t be on my television. There are commercials that will last longer than the cardinal post season.
For someone who claims not care you sure do comment on every single article that mentions the Cardinals. Interesting way of showing how much you don’t care.
Cement his legacy as a Dodger? That’s pretty funny. He will be remembered as a Dodger about as much as Piazza being a Marlin or Canseco being a Devil Ray. But keep up the trolling! I like it when you show people how pathetic you are.
Yeah, a false fact.
@mrperkins spot on i forgot that mike played for the fish, then again when mike was in his prime, basically when he played for nym/lad then went to the other, i can’t remember which team he played for first i was around 8 just starting to really follow bb outside of stl. also didn’t even realize cansaco was still even playing when the rays became a team. tbh Pujols cemented his legacy and hof ticket his first 10 years in stl, and if he did cement his legacy with lad pretty much that was wiped out when he signed with stl for one last ride.
They shouldn’t feel special. I comment on everything. My diverse knowledge and baseball acumen extend to all 30 teams.
And pigs smell good too in your world?
The senior staff at the HOF has already decided that IF he gets in, his cap will be blank.
Assuming Carlson and Nootbaar are starting in CF and RF (and Donovan at 2B), yeah, I’ll take a rusty O’Neill in LF over Dickerson, Yepez, Burleson, and DeLuzio. He’s at least a much better defensive option than the first two and much better offensive option than the last two.
I’d take Dickerson. He’s a past gold glove winner and having another lefty in the lineup helps to balance things out even more. Not to mention he’s hitting pretty well this second half.
*Past* gold glove winner. His defense is now terrible, and he’s stopped hitting again.
Dickerson has turned back into a pumpkin. Yepez has been ok, but you’re right, O’Neill is a much better defender. Burleson has really struggled. My guess is he was getting sent down if Tyler was ready to go. Deluzio has been quietly productive. I’d like to see him get some starts this week with Carlson in left.
They wouldn’t play Carlson in LF. When DeLuzio is in CF, Carlson plays his old position of RF like he did tonight. If necessary, Nootbaar would then play LF.
Release Paddack and Pagan already. Trade was a complete bust
Cubs fans, not sure why you think that they can contend in 2023. Miley gone. Smyly gone. Contreras gone. Hendricks may be gone if his shoulder doesn’t heal properly. Shoulder injuries are much worse than TJ. Other than Happ who will be a FA after 2023 and Suzuki, not seeing a good young core to build around. What would indicate they can just sign a couple guys and suddenly be winners?
Tell me you don’t watch Cubs baseball without telling me you don’t watch Cubs baseball. Out of all the guys you just listed, only Happ has played consistently. The others have all missed significant time this year and the Cubs in the 2nd half have shown to be a young, exciting team. There yet? Not quite, but certainly not as horrible as the pundits put them.
You still didn’t answer the question I posed.
An injury plagued squad that will be missing 66% of their starting rotation in 2023 either to FA or injury and that will lose their best hitter as well. I get the Cubs.
Well obviously we’ve been watching the Minor league guys play which is more than we can say about a fool like you who just spouts nonsense with no knowledge whatever about what you’re talking about.
Why is he a fool? For asking an honest question? I don’t understand the combative nature of your response. Is that just your nature? Is it that foolish for anyone to dare question the guaranteed contention of a 70 win team?
Cubs just need to stay the course and in 2023 allow the young pitching to develop in the majors. I’d move Morel to 2B, keep Hoerner where he is look for some rebound options in FA like Michael Fulmer or Mike Clevinger who may be a little gamble on health but could be 2-3 rotation guys. Lastly…set sights on 2024 to go all in on Devers and hopefully your young OF talent is ready like PCA and others,
Steve Dillard!!! LOL