The Twins’ surprise signing of Carlos Correa to a three-year, $105.3MM contract was supposed to be the signature free-agent addition that washed away the lingering distaste of an awful 2021 campaign pushed them toward an AL Central crown. Instead, the Twins have wildly unperformed expectations for a second straight season, due in large part a once-again disastrous level of injury. Minnesota has had more IL days accrued than any team in the American League and trails only Cincinnati for the MLB lead in that odious category. (The Athletic’s Aaron Gleeman took a player-by-player look at the Twins’ staggering injury woes just this morning.)
Very little has gone right in Minnesota this year, but with all the woes they’ve incurred in their catastrophic second half, Correa’s monstrous finish to the season has flown somewhat under the radar. As the team has crumbled around him, Correa has enjoyed just the type of sprint to the finish line the team had hoped for at the time of the contract.
Correa struggled in April and in July, sandwiching a paid of outstanding months between two below-average months at the plate. His bat picked up in late July, however, and he’s finishing out what could well be his only season with his strongest production of the year. Since Aug. 1, Correa is hitting .323/.405/.505 with eight homers, nine doubles and a triple in 222 plate appearances. Both his walk rate (11.7%) and strikeout rate (19.4%) during that stretch of 222 plate appearances are about two percentage points better than the levels Correa carried through the end of July.
Since Aug. 1, Correa ranks 10th in the Majors in batting average, ninth in on-base percentage and 25th in slugging percentage. His 162 wRC+ (indicating he’s been 62% better than the league-average hitter) in that time is tied with J.T. Realmuto for 13th in all of baseball. If you really want to cherry-pick, Correa’s ridiculous .386/.432/.670 slash over 95 plate appearances since Sept. 4 give him the fifth-best wRC+ in baseball during that time (216).
There’s no denying that Correa’s counting stats will be down from their 2021 levels when the season draws to a close. It’s at least possible that he swats another five homers and ends up tying last year’s mark off 26 long balls, though with nine games to play, it’s also unlikely. He’s not going to drive in as many runs as he did in ’21, and some of that is due to a curious power outage with runners in scoring position this season. It’s also due, however, to the simple fact that with Houston in 2021, Correa came to the plate 187 times with runners in scoring position and 304 times with men on base. This season, those numbers are currently at 116 and 248. He hasn’t been as good in big spots as he was a year ago, but also simply hasn’t had as many big spots, thanks to a Twins lineup that has routinely relied on minor league placeholders to fill in for injured regulars.
On the whole, aside from a slight dip in power (which correlates with the league-wide drop in power this season), Correa’s production at the plate in 2022 looks quite similar to in 2021. He’s hitting .289/.365/.468 as a Twin and hit .279/.366/.485 in his final season as an Astro. This year’s 89.9 mph average exit velocity is just barely shy of last year’s 90.2 mph exit velocity. He’s barreling balls more often this year than last (11.5% to 9.4%), and his overall hard-hit rate (43.8%) is a bit better than his 2021 level as well (42.5%). Essentially, Statcast feels he’s been almost the same hitter in Minneapolis as he was in Houston.
The biggest change in Correa’s valuations this season has been on the defensive side of things. His defensive ratings are down across the board, although Defensive Runs Saved and Ultimate Zone Rating still peg him as a clearly above-average shortstop — just not the all-world, best-in-MLB-regardless-of-position defender he was in 2021. Statcast feels differently, dinging Correa at four outs below average — his first negative OAA mark since 2016.
Having just celebrated his 28th birthday last week, it seems unlikely Correa’s defensive skills have simply eroded. Repeating last year’s career-best 20 Defensive Runs Saved and massive 12 Outs Above Average was always going to be a challenge; defensive stats often oscillate just like their offensive counterparts, and the likely bet is that he’ll again be above-average across the board in 2023. He’s only made eight errors this season, six of which have been of the throwing variety. That only tells the tales of the balls Correa has gotten to, of course — hence the pitfalls of raw fielding percentage — but it does illustrate that Correa hasn’t become a clumsy-handed butcher who’s booting the routine plays.
Overall, Correa has been worth 5.0 wins above replacement, per Baseball-Reference, and 4.2 WAR per FanGraphs. His .289/.365/.468 batting line is 40% better than league-average after adjusting for league and home park, by measure of wRC+, and he’s been lauded throughout the season by teammates, coaches and the front office staff alike for his influence leadership and influence in the clubhouse. It’s not necessarily the best-case outcome the Twins might’ve hoped for when signing him, but a strong four-to-five win season and positive off-the-field impact is a strong outcome all the same.
Correa has said at multiple times this season that he and his family feel at home in Minnesota and that he’s open to, if not hopeful for a long-term offer to stay with the Twins long term. That, of course, is a sensible thing for any pending free agent to say, and the fact that he’s open to a long-term deal (presumably at top-of-the-market dollars) shouldn’t be a surprise. It’s moderately notable that he’s chosen to publicly state his hope for a long-term arrangement rather than demur and say that contract talk is for the offseason, but public comments from Correa — as with most pending free agents — can be taken with a grain of salt.
The reality is that while Correa might never find the ten-year deal and $35MM-ish annual value he was likely seeking last offseason, he can absolutely find a long-term pact that will trounce the remaining two years and $70.2MM on his current contract with the Twins. Correa can very realistically command more than $30MM per year over a long term — likely with additional opt-out opportunities baked into the deal. Because of his age, even a ten-year deal would still only run through his age-37 season. Opting out has long seemed to be the likeliest outcome for Correa, as noted on last month’s update to MLBTR’s Free Agent Power Rankings (where Correa placed fourth).
Correa’s torrid production has only improved his stock since that time. The Phillies, Cubs and Giants are reported to be among the teams that will look at free-agent shortstops. The Twins have already expressed public interest in extending the relationship. The Braves, Red Sox and Dodgers will all have their own star shortstops reach the market, creating potential openings for all three (in-house options notwithstanding). The Cardinals and Angels could need shortstops. The Orioles could theoretically be lurking and have already signaled that their payroll will increase.
The free-agent market for shortstops should be strong, and Correa’s standing among the 15 most-productive hitters in the sport over the final two months of the season has likely silenced any inkling of a doubt regarding his opt-out clause. The Twins shocked baseball in March when they signed Correa in the first place. It would register as an even bigger shock if Correa now forgoes his opportunity to return to the market on the heels of a season — and a finish — this strong.
vaderzim
Which teams need Shortstops this offseason?
baseballpun
Cardinals. But they won’t be in the running for Correa.
fisher40
Cardinals would be stupid to go after Correa, especially with his durability issues and hot/cold steaks at the plate during his career.
SalaryCapMyth
Players have bad months and good months. That is normal.
mlbtrsks
Nothing worse than a cold steak.
CALgoldenBears
Cold steaks are better on hot plate or board instead of at the plate
diddlez
I prefer hot steaks unless its a milk steak, then i like them cold.
bpskelly
Except injuries.
Joe It All
You lie. I know you prefer it boiled over hard with a side of the finest jellybeans, served raw
Steve Adams
“Correa’s torrid production has only improved his stock since that time. The Phillies, Cubs and Giants are reported to be among the teams that will look at free-agent shortstops. The Twins have already expressed public interest in extending the relationship. The Braves, Red Sox and Dodgers will all have their own star shortstops reach the market, creating potential openings for all three (in-house options notwithstanding). The Cardinals and Angels could need shortstops. The Orioles could theoretically be lurking and have already signaled that their payroll will increase.”
Samuel
All this is well and good,but…..
First off. Turner is a not a guaranteed FA. The Dodgers have a $16m option. There’s no way they don’t exercise that, even if they trade him.
Then keep in mind that these name FA’s want $30plus for multiple years. After what we’ve seen of last years name FA SS’s, how much did they do to help their teams win? Think FO’s haven’t seen that?
Trading for guys like Newman will be more attractive to many teams.
mlb1225
Justin Turner has a $16 million option, but Trea is an unrestricted FA after the season.
Guertez
Newman? Is that you, Ben?
mlb1225
Surprisingly, Newman hasn’t been awful this year. 96 OPS+, 95 wRC+, slashing .367/.404/.571 vs LHP. By no means am I saying that he’s great or even good, but after posting a sub-60 wRC+ in 2020 and 2021, a guy who is within 5% of league average is not the worst thing ever.
rememberthecoop
Wrong Turner.
SamtheMan!
I hope the orioles don’t touch Correa.
Not because I don’t think he’s very good but I’d much rather spend the money on a TOR starter to pair with G-Rod, who will hopefully be that frontline SP we’ve been missing.
I think DL is going to be a very inefficient starter. He may find his long term home at the back of the bullpen. There’s plenty of mid-back end guys we’ve developed but definitely need one at the top
Samuel
Thanks.
The Contract site I read a month ago said the Dodgers had a players option.
SalaryCapMyth
Tha Braves Swanson has certainly had a successful season. By standards of of BWAR its his best. Despite that, I don’t think Swanson is going to be among the shortstops commanding $30 million a year.
fisher40
Are you kidding? Every SS will want Lindor Money. Correa as over-rated as he is is making 36 mill this year. Turner will eclipse what the Mets gave Lindor a few yrs ago. Turner Is the best out there? Swanson is much better than Correa and and will get a contract mich higher than the rangers gave seager last year. I expect 30 mil a season for Swanson and 40 Mil a year for Turner when all is said and done
SalaryCapMyth
@fisher. Look at his total body of work. The season he is having now is the outlier. It’s easy to see that Correa has been more successful than Swanson.
JoeBrady
Swanson is much better than Correa and and will get a contract mich higher than the rangers gave seager last year.
=============================
I’d be shocked if Swanson is even remotely close to Correa. Swanson had a career vWAR of 8.8 before this year.
C Yards Jeff
Samuel; keeping it real. Thanks for that. Yep, if I’m a GM in search of an FA SS this off season, enter the market with caution. Don’t go the FOMO route!
benhen77
Orioles payroll is $60mm this year. If they believe it’s their time to contend, they can afford multiple splashes.
Skell 2
Dansby Swanson is not getting 30 mill a season. Who you trying to kid here?! Go to bed bro!!!!
BPax
Hello Newman
1984wasntamanual
The only way that’s possible is if he takes a 2 year deal or something like that.
SamtheMan!
Orioles payroll next year is way lower than this year too with Mancini and Lyles off.
drasco036
It seems to me that it would be too risky to have Correa and Buxton both signed to long term contracts given their health histories…. Additionally the Twins have Lewis ready and waiting (injury not withstanding) to take over short… seems to me the Twins interest is probably more smoke than fire.
From the Cubs perspective, with the new rules regarding the shift, I could see Correa again being the object of their affection and moving Nico to second base while forcing Madrigal to the bench.
fisher40
Swanson and Turner are better SS options for any team looking for one.
Pads Fans
Turner is a better option. He is the best option on the market and his camp has been saying he wants 10/365 at age 29. He will certainly surpass what Lindor got.
Correa is heads and shoulders better than Swanson. His 14.0 WAR over the last 3 seasons is nearly 50% better than Swanson’s 9.8.
Even if you take out Correa’s 2017 season, the only one it was possible for him to be cheating, he still has nearly triple the career WAR that Swanson has. 32.5 to 13.9. Its not a question. Correa is much, much better AND he is younger than Swanson.
SalaryCapMyth
@fisher. Can you justify that in any way? I’m a Braves fan that wishes what you are saying is true.
Pads Fans
From the article – “The Phillies, Cubs and Giants are reported to be among the teams that will look at free-agent shortstops. The Twins have already expressed public interest in extending the relationship. The Braves, Red Sox and Dodgers will all have their own star shortstops reach the market, creating potential openings for all three (in-house options notwithstanding). The Cardinals and Angels could need shortstops. The Orioles could theoretically be lurking and have already signaled that their payroll will increase.”
drasco036
Did you post have a purpose or did you just want to show off your ability to copy and paste?
riffraff
I think he was trying to be condescending in reply to vaderzim but neglected to see Steve’s reply and thus just looks foolish.
Pads Fans
Are you typically a d***he or did you just feel you had to in this case. The writer of the article later also copied and pasted from the article. If people don’t READ the post before commenting they deserve a little snark.
You deserve a mute.
riffraff
Lighten up Francis
4thefences
Rockies. But they probably haven’t heard of Correa.
BlueMacs
The Astros current 1st baseman Yuli Gurriel is having a very bad year and is nearing 40 lol. Correa could return to Houston and play 1st. Yuli played 3rd before he was at 1st. His fielding skills transferred very well, Bregman owns 3rd, Pena has SS covered now and Altuve at 2nd isn’t going anywhere. Not sure management would love it, but Houston fans would.
mlb1225
If Correa was 10 years older than he is now, then maybe. You’re not taking a guy who plays a high-premium position relatively well and moving him to first base unless you outbid the competition by a very wide margin.
A'sfaninUK
Correa is better at defense than Pena, Correa is literally never going to play 1B, thats 100% stupidity.
Correa going back to Houston is probably going to happen, but Pena will be traded for a SP to replace Verlander is the more likely move. Houston loves to trade, why would Pena be any different?
jjd002
Why would they add a stating pitcher? Even if Verlander leaves it’s still the best starting staff in the AL. If anything it would be for a CF or Brantley replacement.
Poster formerly known as . . .
“Correa is better at defense than Pena.”
Pena leads all qualified shortstops with 16 Defensive Runs Saved compared to Correa’s 3 DRS and is credited with 8 Outs Above Average compared to Correa’s -4 OAA.
Pads Fans
Using DRS over a single season is totally inaccurate. The developer of the stat says that you need 3600 innings of data to develop an accurate comparative value from DRS or any other defensive metric.
While its less than 3600 innings played for most of the players because of a short 2020 season and 2022 not being complete, here is 2019-2022.
fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=fld…
Here is OAA over that period.
baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/outs_above_aver…
Correa is not the very best defensive shortstop in baseball in my estimation, but he has certainly proven over time that he is in the conversation.
Poster formerly known as . . .
You do realize that Pena has only one season’s worth of defensive metrics in the majors, no?
His 8 OAA from the sample of 2019-2022 that you selected represents only this season, in which he’s earned those 8 Outs Above Average.
I’m well aware of the 3-season caveat urged by Fangraphs for defensive metrics — but we only have one season’s worth for Mr. Pena; ergo, only one season for comparison with Mr. Correa, whose metrics this year are considerably worse.
Additionally, I’ve thought for years that the 3-season caveat is a flawed concept seemingly aimed at minimizing the effect of discrepancies, and this comparison between the two shortstops is a nice example of why it’s flawed. The example of D.J. Lemahieu is an even better example.
Fielding, like any other baseball skill, can be affected by numerous factors, and most especially health. If a fielder is nursing an injury for much of a season and that season is factored into a 3-season sample, will the resulting 3-season analysis equate to an accurate assessment of his fielding ability?
In 2020, LeMahieu had an injured thumb. He was credited with 0 OAA at third base and -4 OAA at second base. Last year, he was playing through a sports hernia and was taxed with -1 OAA at third base and credited with 0 OAA at second base.
This year, with his thumb healed and after offseason hernia surgery, he’s credited with 4 OAA at third base and 2 OAA at second base. Does splitting the difference between his one healthier season and his two injury-plagued seasons really tell you how good he is when he’s healthy — or does a season when he’s actually healthy tell you that?
In fact, he might be even better than this year when he’s 100% healthy, because he’s earned those positive marks while dealing part of the time with a toe injury.
Maybe taking defensive metrics on a year-by-year basis isn’t such a bad idea after all. Perhaps even a better idea: don’t set much store by defensive metrics. The act of fielding isn’t as amenable to quantification as pitching and hitting. Not yet, anyway.
As for Correa, he’s an exceptionally large shortstop with a history of back problems. Caveat emptor.
Pads Fans
If he has less than 1 season of stats, then you can’t make an accurate comparison using those defensive metrics. Its really that simple.
Come back after 2024 and lets see where he is then. .
Poster formerly known as . . .
“If he has less than 1 season of stats, then you can’t make an accurate comparison using those defensive metrics.”
Who said this?
“Correa is better at defense than Pena.”
Shouldn’t you be addressing the A’s fan in the U.K.?
And, no, it’s not that simple.
What’s simple — or, rather, overly simple — is the notion that combining seasons, each with disparate indications of fielding ability and possibly affected by varying degrees of health, tells you anything meaningful about a player’s fielding ability when he’s completely healthy.
Pads Fans
John Dewan said it. He developed DRS. Mitchel Lichtman said it. He developed UZR. Tom Tango, better known as Tango Tiger, has said it on more than one occasion.
I am addressing you because you tried to say that Pena is better than Correa on defense and its simply not possible at this point to say that with any certainty.
Come back after the 2024 season and then you can make an accurate comparison of defensive skills. Until then its all just blowing hot air.
Poster formerly known as . . .
“Correa is literally never going to play 1B, thats 100% stupidity.”
From 1953 through 1961, Ernie Banks accumulated 50.7 fWAR with 133 wRC+ as a starting shortstop, greatly outperforming all his peers at the position. He moved to first base in 1962 and played that position for the next 10 years until he retired.
Pads Fans
Ernie Banks was an average defensive shortstop. He was a great hitter.
Correa is both one of the best defensive shortstops and a very good hitter.
Poster formerly known as . . .
Ernie Banks was credited with a Total Zone rating of 9 in each of 1961 and 1960, his last two years starting at shortstop. +10 is rated “Great” and +5 is “Above Average.” In 1959, he was tops in TZ with a rating of 23, lapping the field by a huge margin; he was the best defensive shortstop in the league that year.
fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=fld…
Pads Fans
Ernie Banks was an average defensive shortstop. Its WHY he was moved to 1B for the 1962 season. Go read the columns that John Carmichael wrote about him in the Chicago Daily News.
Go to baseballprojection.com and read what they have to say about defensive metrics for pre-2003.
For an interesting read, Google “P.K. Wrigley and the Chicago Cubs College of Coaches”.
Poster formerly known as . . .
Wrong. Ernie Banks moved to first base because he reinjured an old Army injury:
news.google.com/newspapers?id=wLcxAAAAIBAJ&pg…
And if Correa reinjures his repeatedly injured back, he might move to first base too — which is why it’s nonsensical to state categorically that “Correa is literally never going to play 1B, thats 100% stupidity.”
Poster formerly known as . . .
I retyped “categorically” to insert the missing L and submitted the edit, but this glitchy message app failed to post the correction.
Poster formerly known as . . .
And now, after posting that explanation, the original correction shows up upon refreshing the page for the third time. Marvelous.
Poster formerly known as . . .
“Banks was an excellent defensive player at two positions, shortstop from 1953-61, and first base from 1962-71. At the former position, he led the league in fielding percentage three times, picking up a Gold Glove Award in 1960, when he led all NL shortstops in fielding percentage, double plays, games, putouts and assists. As a first baseman, he led the league in putouts five times, assists three times and double plays and fielding percentage once each, compiling a .994 fielding percentage.”
baseballhall.org/hall-of-famers/banks-ernie
benhen77
BlueMacs has been announced as the next Rockies GM.
orange2001
Angels
watup0100
He’s played okay but I’m not sure he’s really increased his value.
mlb1225
He’s done better than just ‘okay’, but yeah I see what you’re saying. His triple-slash is pretty much in-line with his career average. His OPS+ and wRC+ is only 8% better than last year. He’s done great, but nothing out of the ordinary for him when he’s healthy.
drasco036
If I need a shortstop, Correa is probably second on my list behind Turner.
Swanson I just don’t fully believe in yet and Bogaerts , even though he is playing good defense this year, historically is not a strong enough defender.
A'sfaninUK
I love this “I wouldn’t commit big money to Turner.” LOL
No one is asking you + not your money + doesnt matter if a player is “overpaid” or not because every single person has a different definition of that + the money has to go SOMEWHERE, why not the players instead of the owners who do nothing?
Trea Turner is a massively elite player, not just this “A lot of his value is speed and base running,” crud which is 100% false, who has mastered almost all the positions on the diamond, he deserves the big money and will likely be worth it, despite what you think.
mlbtrsks
“owners who do nothing”? Right, and sales=profits.
C Yards Jeff
Turner is number 1 for me. Small injury history with a body type, unless freak injury, built to be just as productive in year 6 of his deal as in years 1, 2 and 3.
Also, the fact that Houston moved on from Correa is telling to me. I’m thinking he stays right there in Minnesota. The Os possibly may have been a landing spot but Mateo, minus the strikeouts issue, looks legit. A gift to Elias. Maybe that money now goes towards FA pitching? Or helping extend Rutschman, Henderson and/or Mullins?
SamtheMan!
I think Houston moved on because they knew Jeremy Peña was about to be a good SS for pennies on the dollar.
Houston will spend on something this off-season though. Might be bringing back JV or another TOR guy.
benhen77
Correa’s defense is better than Xander. Xander isn’t even the best defensive SS on his team. Combine that with a superior OPS and the age advantage, and it’s Correa, no contest.
Bobby Mongan
Not the O’s. They have Mateo.
mlb1225
Yeah but is he the guy you want starting on a team that could very much so compete for at least a WC? I think Jordan Westburg is probably the guy who takes over shortstop early on in the 2023 season. He’s considered a pretty decent prospect and has done well at Triple-A for the O’s.
Bobby Mongan
I do not disagree, and I would like to see Westburg get his shot. He does have better offensive numbers but he will also have to shine with the glove because it will be hard to match the speed, range and glove of Mateo. Remember there were World Championships won by the Orioles with Mark Belanger at shortstop.
mlb1225
True, but you’re comparing Mateo to a guy who is arguably the second best defensive shortstop of all-time. There’s a difference between elite and all-time great.
Samuel
mlb1225;
HOF’er Jim Palmer that does the Orioles games commented the other night that he’d played with Aparicio and Belanger, and that Mateo is a superior SS. Mateo has been clocked as the fastest MLB runner around the bases this year, and is always a threat to steal.
Mike Elias and Brandon Hyde have commented on how important he is to the team. Doubt he’s going anywhere. The man is playing for $700k and heading to arbitration. This years Orioles payroll was $40m. They’re not laying out $35m-plus for another SS because he hits better.
I don’t know what it is, but people seem to look at stats and decide that Matteo and Anthony Santander need to be replaced/traded. Those two young men are primarily reasons why the Orioles have had such a good 2022 season., Stats misrepresent a players value to his team winning or losing.
Bobby Mongan
I agree totally with you! IMO Mateo is less replaceable than Santander considering the young talent that is in the Oriole organization right now. I love Santander’s game but he and Hays may be used for a trade for a starting pitcher. Stowers could come on and be the replacement for Santander and there is Colton Cowser In Norfolk who could do the same. We shall see.
Samuel
Bobby Mongan;
The problem the O’s have is far too many young LH hitters. Mateo hits RH, Santander is a switch-hitter. Hays hits RH as does Westburg. Henderson, Stowers, Vavra all look good, but they all hit LH….as does Colton Cowser. Santander and Rutschman both hit far worse RH.
I suggest that the O’s will still be sorting through their players in 2023. It’s far too early to make decisions on who goes and who needs to come in.
Halo11Fan
Samuel. I never pay any attention to color men. The color man for the Mariners went on ML.B network and gave credit to Crawford’s defense as to why the M’s were winning. Defensively, Crawford may be the worst starting shortstop in the AL.
That said, Mateo may be the best. He’s very good.
ChuckyNJ
The only “world championships” the O’s have ever won was with “Murica, F@#k Yeah!”
Samuel
I pay attention to color men based on listening to them for a while. Many are full of hyperbole. Jim Palmer has been broadcasting MLB for over 25 years. He’s low key, and not given to volunteer much more than analyze the action on the field and how a player has been doing recently based on adjustments he made. He volunteered this information on Mateo after yet another remarkable play in the hole that has become commonplace.
A part of analyzing what any person is writing / saying is to observe them for a long time, as they’re human and change. After a while it’s easy who’s saying things to get clicks / viewers in our current media environment, and who’s reporting. I listened to Vin Shully for decades. I wouldn’t discount what he says because some other announcer says things a certain way. This site has a lot of groupthink from the writers. Still it’s pretty easy to see which ones color things one-way or the other.
Everyone has to make their own decision. If you think a HOF pitcher that seldom complements a player to such a degree as he did Mateo without being asked to is blowing smoke, then that’s your right.
Halo11Fan
I think Palmer is one of the best, but I never trust what they say at face value. Most are there to sell a product.
And did you read my entire post?
I’ll add it again:
“That said, Mateo may be the best. He’s very good.”
SamtheMan!
Mateo’s a good player.
I seriously doubt Westburg is ever an upgrade.
Westy probably slides to 2B if he’s a LT piece and not a trade chip for something else we need more. Vavra/Westburg platoon over at 2B might be in the cards.
If Mateo could learn how to bunt from Mullins & or work on that plate discipline he could really become a special player.
JoeBrady
Is this like, your life’s goal? Everytime someone mentions the Wrold Series, you have to post the extremely obvious “not every country plays in the WS”? And then, for some odd reason, you have to post “Murica.
Everyone knows that only two countries play in the WS, so I don’t know if you’re trying to educate people to this fact, even though they already know it.
Or if you are trying to be funny, even if you’re not.
Halo11Fan
I agree with you Joe. Its official name is the “World Series.” Everyone knows what it is.
A'sfaninUK
Jackson Holliday will be the Orioles SS as soon as next September. Book it
SamtheMan!
Hays is really a CF’er.
That’s why he may go. He hits just enough to play LF but could have more value to a team that needs a CF’er.
There just aren’t enough good ones around the league.
Look at what the Cards did for Bader. They had multiple guys on their roster who could cover CF and wound up getting a very impactful starter for bader.
JoeBrady
A’sfaninUK2 hours ago
Jackson Holliday will be the Orioles SS as soon as next September. Book it
============================
An 18 year old with 42 ABs in A-ball is going to be the O’s starting SS next September? Seriously?
compassrose
Halo fan which color man they use 4-5 all ex players. Crawford has had a tough last couple of months. He is not the best in the league but not the worst.
A post about the Ms and you didn’t cry all your woes are because of Dipoto. Did you see the light or just get tired of people telling you you were wrong?
C Yards Jeff
The only rub for me with Mateo: his OBP is ugly but worse is his penchant to swing and miss (36% strikeout rate). Brutal. All said, I’d take him over Westburg any day.
Jim Palmer. The best. Why? He’s no homer. If an Oriole is struggling, he will publicly critique/rip said player. Love that.
Halo11Fan
According to fangraphs Mateo is the best, Crawford is the worst. Most of these guys are trying to sell a product, I don’t pay too much attention to their player evaluation reports.
Halo11Fan
Palmer is great. But I still validate everything these guys say.
compassrose
Who said that he was the reason we were going to make the playoffs?
compassrose
I looked at fangraphs did not see anything that put Mateo 1 and JP last. I did find that many of the graphs had them close to each other. Xander was 1st in most. So tell me what particular graph were you looking at or is that comment going to be false like your claims against Dipoto? Also tell me who was the color guy? Was he an ex Mariner or what.
compassrose
What graph put Mateo 1 and JP last? I couldn’t find one that said that. Tell me which one. Also who was the color guy? I would like to watch the clip. Or ignore me and prove yourself to be as foolish of blaming Dipoto for the fallen angels woes
SamtheMan!
Fangraphs has Mateo #5.
Crawford is 21. Which if you select the min qualified inning filter on is all the SS’s included.
Halo11Fan
Jbig. In the AL.
SamtheMan!
Haha.
Jackson Holliday won’t even be physically developed by next September.
If we see him in Sept 2024 that’d be great.
compassrose
I answered last night maybe this one will post. I said: I did not think to look at that. I saw there were only 22 spots I tried to open the rest and figured it was just slow like many of the leaks can be at times. I started looking around so it stopped searching.
This is just another lie that Halo tried to pass as truth. It seems he likes to bend the truth a bit. Why won’t you answer me Halo? You afraid you will be caught in a lie? What comes next. Julio is not very good and should not get the rookie of the year because he went on the IL late in the season. I heard someone say it might hurt his chance of getting ROY because he will miss time. That is absurd would he get it if he would have gone out before the AS break? Anyway Halo bring on the lies and half truths.
Pads Fans
Players from 24 countries played in MLB last season. 25 if you count USVI. Not sure what the count is this season.
A'sfaninUK
Mateo isnt why they are good and he’s actually not a great player.
joefleury
Probably less annual per year value but more years guaranteed are on the table for him. I would not sign him to a 10 year $35 million a year contract.
He is good but that is something that can sink a franchise. I don’t see Nelson Cruz type numbers with him past age 35 that would warrant that kind of long term deal at a premium position.
Latino Heat
He should’ve signed that 275mil contract with the tigers when he had the chance
Dotnet22
To be in last place the rest of his career?
Latino Heat
If he cared about winning he wouldn’t have left Houston.
A'sfaninUK
Going to the Twins, a legit contender = “doesnt care about winnning” – do you hear yourself? Thats the sound of someone who doesnt know ball.
Pads Fans
Why? He got $105 million for 3 years or $35 million AAV from the Twins and after a very good year is going to get more than the Tigers offered now with no deferred money. 8 years/$280 million at a minimum.
Include the $35 million he got this season and Correa is going to come out way ahead.
stymeedone
The Tigers offer is still the number to beat. That he struggled while the Twins were in contention, and then got on his hot streak once the fork was put in them, has been duly noted by the people in charge of payroll. It will be interesting if he tops that offer. Its was also fully illustrated by the Twins that making the big splash doesn’t overcome the problems of an entire team. Texas also made that apparent.
Pads Fans
$35.1 million AAV is the number to beat.
drasco036
I’m sure Correa getting hot after the Twins were basically out of contention completely negated everything he did leading up to and in the playoffs previously with the Astros…
DarkSide830
LOL dude is a 5 win player this year. Absolutely NO ONE is taking of note of what you’ve stated.
JrodFunk5
As a Tiger fan, I was very happy he didn’t. I still am, even with Baez struggles.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
I know Elias knows him, but I always wanted Trevor Story
I have no interest in Correa
Pads Fans
Of two guys with comparable defensive skills, certainly I would want a guy that hit .238/.303/.434/.737 with a 102 OPS+ this season and .268/.336/.513/.849 with a 111 OPS+ career instead of a guy that hit .289/.365/.468/.834 with a 139 OPS+ this season and .278/.357/.479/.836 with a 129 OPS+ career. /S
Latino Heat
Neither is worth 35 million a year
A'sfaninUK
Both are worth $35M a year. Understand mlb profit margins.
JoeBrady
Profit margins have nothing to do with what a player is worth, My previous employer could’ve doubled my salary and not even noticed it. But they wouldn’t because I wasn’t worth it.
If you, for example, got your shoes shined at the Liverpool Street station every week, you likely could afford to pay the shiner $20. But no one ever does, because it isn’t worth it.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
It’s my personal preference and Story stays healthy, Correa does not
However, Correa has stayed healthy this year
Pads Fans
Most FA deals are based in large part on how those players have performed the past 3 seasons.
2020-2022: 334 games played vs 295 games played. Which is Story and which is Correa?
Appalachian_Outlaw
I believe a lot of Boston fans would probably drive Story to Baltimore for you themselves.
Story is a solid ballplayer, but I think he was partially a product of Coors, too. His splits were always drastically different at home versus on the road while a Rockie, and he hasn’t lit the world on fire in Boston.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
We could meet halfway and I would pick him up
Halo11Fan
I doubt the Angels will make a run at a shortstop, they drafted a really good one. They also have two strong catching prospects. One on the verge, one a little further out.
The Angels need bullpen help and depth. Will Myers would be a good addition. A RH hitting firstbasman who can play outfield.
Pads Fans
So the Angels wont sign a proven All Star caliber MLB shortstop because they drafted a guy that has a 20% chance of being MLB average in 2-3 years?
The Angels still need starting pitching, bullpen depth. a catcher, a 1B, a SS, and more. That roster is Swiss cheese.
Halo11Fan
No, it’s because most teams have to work within a budget and the Angels are going to have three players with a combined salary of 100 million dollars next year.
They have to be smart. They can’t spend stupidly like the Padres.
Halo11Fan
And the Angels starting staff appears very solid. Their first baseman was an all star I. 2021. They have a catcher who will play next year.
The Angels have three guys who can play short. One with a great glove, Another who is doing everything well, and Rengifo.
They need depth. They need to be able to plug in a quality major league player when something happens.
Pads Fans
You think Ohtani will get $25 million in arbitration? I don’t.
The Angels will have in excess of $430 million in revenue this season. I think they can afford a higher payroll than the $188 million they spent this season, don’t you?
That means they have another $125-$130 million beyond Trout, Rendon, and Ohtani to spend on 23 players. I think they will be ok spendng on another star or two.
Although to me a top of the rotation starter would be a better investment. Moreno won’t allow that to happen, but for your sake I hope he is gone. .
The Angels are below .500 and out of the playoffs Wouldn’t you rather have seen them spend $42 million more and made the playoffs like the Padres are on pace to do? Especially since the Angel’s revenue is more than $100 million higher than the Padres.
Pads Fans
The Angels starting staff was not terrible. They were middle of the road. That doesn’t get you into the playoffs most seasons. fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&…
They have no one who can play SS above average. If they did, he would have started. Velazquez was the SS for 127 games and he was terrible. 52 OPS+. 1.5 WAR.
Their 1B was injured a third of the season and had an 80 OPS+. He is just a touch above average for his career with the bat and in WAR. When he got hurt they had to replace him with a guy that was worse.
Rengifo is a utility guy. Not a starter. Career 83 OPS+ with marginal defensive skills.
Soto started 7 games at SS and he was terrible with the glove. The last 3 seasons in the minors he was mighty MEH. 7 games don’t indicate he is “doing everything well.”
Like I said, their roster is Swiss cheese.
Halo11Fan
Ohtani is likely going to get more in arbitration than any player in history. You are really arguing about 98 million versus 102? Seriously?
The Angels starting top four got much better as the year wore on. Once Detmers figured it out after being sent to AAA and once Suarez got put in the rotation, those four became much better than middle of the pack.
They could add another starter, but that’s not close to a weakness.
You don’t follow the Angels, yet you talk about them in a derogatory manner as if you do.
mlb1225
Ohtani will absoutley command $25 million in arbitration. Donaldson earned $23 million after 2018, Arenado earned $26 million after 2019, and Betts earned $27 million after 2019 as well. He’s having just as good of a season, if not better than many of those players mentioned, along with pitching well.
A'sfaninUK
Why? Both teams have unlimited money that for some reason you decided they have limits on? Why you do that?
JoeBrady
Both teams have unlimited money that for some reason you decided they have limits on? Why you do that?
===============================
That wasn’t addressed to me, but that is comically wrong. To assume that they have unlimited money is to assume they have unlimited revenue.
Do you really believe that they have unlimited revenue?
Pads Fans
Ohtani is projected by this site to make $12-13 million in arbitration. Decent, but not near $25 million.
Trout will make $35.45 million in 2023 and Rendon $38 million in 2023. $73.45 million total.
I don’t have to follow the Angels closely to know that they sucked. The record speaks for itself. I can also read Baseball Reference and Fangraphs to see what their stats were individually and as a team compared to the rest of MLB.
The Angels starting staff is not great. They are also not bad They are OK. 13th best in ERA for the season and 10th best in the 2nd half. They still need a starter to sit in that #2 hole behind Ohtani. Especially since pitchers that made 37 starts are gone.
Plus, I live in Bonsall, an hour 15 from the Big A, and catch a half dozen Angels games in person every year because I love baseball and the Big A is a fun place to catch a game. I DO follow them. Just not as closely as the Padres.
A'sfaninUK
I don’t even buy into the Neto hype, its WILD that Angels fans are literally out here saying “We have a superstar SS in waiting” based off pretty much nothing.
User 2079935927
Halo11- I agree Myers would be addition to play LF
Halo11Fan
Winslow.
LF, platoon at 1B, CF, RF. He’s a plan “B” that would likely become a plan “A”.
I wouldn’t write off Adell, but I wouldn’t depend on him either.
I..M.O. Myers is a great option.
User 2079935927
Halo- I watch Adell and it seems he tried to do so much during every AB and out in the field too. I’m not ready to give up yet. But I’m afraid he will go somewhere and flip the switch.
Halo11Fan
I think Adell has gotten much better defensively, and I wouldn’t sell low.
But right now he’s more suspect than prospect.
Myers gives the Angels options. They can’t go into next season with Adell as a plan “A”. They need someone who can play first, play outfield and to bat RH to back up Walsh.
They need a bullpen and depth.
empirejim
The ONLY way Myers would be a good addition is if The Pads foot the bill. And then all you have is a mediocre fielder and a guy with lots of unrealized potential. Who needs to use a roster space for that?
empirejim
Oops… forgot Myers is a FA
fre5hwind
Correa should opt out Twins got Arraez and Polanco they’ll manage.
Baldkid
…and neither can adequately play SS
fre5hwind
Polanco is a SS they moved him 2B when Correa came but if he decides to opt out they’ll maybe move him back to SS.
Jacksson13
Polanco was moved to 2B long before the Twinkies were “gifted” with Correa by Boras. They signed Andrelton Simmons the year before as a bridge to Royce Lewis.
fre5hwind
Arraez is a “utility” but he can play SS but its probably a last resort decision to put him at SS.
ohyeadam
Neither of them play SS. Arraez never did and Poloanco is only a break in case emergency SS now. Twins have Palacios(meh), Lewis(hurt) and Gordon(now mostly a LF). My hope is they go for Swanson
fre5hwind
Alright fair fair.
Dennis Boyd
To the editor: pair, not paid. 3rd paragraph
riffraff
Don’t forget the Unperformed” instead of “underperformed” in the first paragraph ( as long as you’re fixing stuff)
Latino Heat
It’s known the writers here are against proofreading their work. It’s known as the Zach Links curse
pobbybortis
Maybe they’d get more subscribers to MLBTR Front Office if they did.
riffraff
I can’t imagine he is still employed over on the football side of things ..can’t say for sure since I don’t visit it near as often as I used to, mostly because the writing and subject matter is not in the same league skill wise as this site and it was getting annoying
Latino Heat
I don’t think he is. Good thing we have the mute button though for that clown who posted below you
riffraff
I must have already muted him since yours is the only post below me lol
Latino Heat
He tried posting about the grammar and mispelled words but did it like a kid purposely misspelling words and using uppercase for every other letter.
You didn’t miss out on anything
ohyeadam
I cnat bilevei hwo mnay polepe cmoplian abuot garmamr adn seplilng
MuleorAstroMule
Pedantry and baseball fans is like saltiness and salt.
cwsOverhaul
Lot of players need to be on 1yr deals to stay on the field and fully motivated. Human nature. Current setup is perfect for colossal 35per short term. Ditto for Judge, lest the clubs quickly regret l-t guarantees like last years SS class.
dshires4
Come on Dipoto…time to move on from the idea of JP at short!
kflorence
Nooooo! Don’t want this loser on the team.
mjb070781
welcome to St Louis!
eephus11
No thanks!
deuceball
Good for the twins to finally spend money but it cost them a year of Royce lewis development.
mlb1225
Lewis would probably have gotten a decent amount of playing time this year, whether that be at second base, third base, or an outfield spot, if he didn’t have to undergo season-ending surgery.
WrongM
I think (emphasis on think) @deuceball meant: Without Correa on the roster, the Twins wouldn’t have chosen to play Lewis in CF when he was underprepared out there, and then the season-ending injury wouldn’t have happened.
If that is what was meant above then it’s not unfair to claim, but either way it relies on a lot of hindsight. Coming into this season the Twins were trying to reload and contend (though you certainly can question their strategy for doing that) and Lewis hadn’t had game action in a year. His early return to playing games clearly went extremely well, but entering the year he hadn’t played AAA and had been so-so at AA, plus the long layoff, so they had no idea how he would look.
It was almost certain that someone who wasn’t in the Twins org prior to 2022 was going to start the season at SS. The specific circumstances of Correa waiting late in free agency and the Twins being more open to high AAV on short contracts allowed them to line up on a deal. Lewis’ season-ending surgery definitely did throw off the plan, but it was more of an accident of timing than anything foreseeable.
Jacksson13
San Francisco for Correa.
empirejim
Correa to SF would certainly re-energize the bad blood with LA that disappeared after Bum left…
phantomofdb
Twins fans are a bizarre bunch. Their subreddit is all celebrating how great he has been the second half, like it’s a bright spot while the team has crumbled around him. It’s a BAD thing for the twins that he’s gotten red hot, nincompoops
mlb1225
So there’s something wrong with being happy a player is doing good for their team? Even if he is going to opt out at the end of the season, let them enjoy it while it lasts.
phantomofdb
This season is dead, next season has potential. The team crumbling around the guy with the opt out clause while his game takes off is a double whammy “worst case scenario”
The team doing well and Correa struggling would be something to celebrate. I don’t see what good it does celebrating a departing player who has only there one year suddenly succeeding so he won’t be coming back.
mlb1225
Still, just let people find something fun to watch when the season is lost and they’ve been trending downard in the second half. There’s nothing wrong with that. Pirates have sucked all year and even when I knew that they were going to trade Jose Quintana and a good start just meant it more likely he’d be traded, I still looked forward to every one of his outings.
mlb1225
That’s like telling Boston fans that they should be rooting for Bogarets to strikeout every time he comes to the plate because he’s going to opt out if he does good and they’re out of the race anyway. I like to watch players on my team perfom well, even if I know they’re going to depart in FA later on.
phantomofdb
Boegarts isn’t really the same at all because he’s been with the Red Sox and has been a team/fan favorite. Correa was the twins one big signing this off-season and he was underperforming while the twins were competing, and now that they’re falling apart, he’s showing up and playing well. So what did they get out of that huge signing? A chance to cheer for a guy with a jaded reputation While the rest of the team plays terribly? Surely you can see that’s not the same thing at all
stymeedone
That he’s only gotten hot after the pressure of a pennant race was removed surely hasn’t gone unnoticed. Hasn’t hurt his value, but overall will do little to help his contract with all the number crunching done by teams today
Pads Fans
So you are saying he won’t get a raise from the $35.1 million AAV he had on this deal? That is fair.
So 8/280 deal coming up.
CalcetinesBlancos
He’s another year older. Why would the contract that didn’t materialize last year magically appear this year?
Pads Fans
He is 27. That is still very young for a FA. Most players don’t see FA until 30 years old. He is coming off 7 and 5+ WAR seasons. Teams still get 4 years of his peak.
YourShadow
Exactly the problem..4 yrs of his peak on a 7-8 yr contract is bad value.. only mega-spenders can afford bad value contracts.. thus the tradition of overpaid guys going to the top teams will continue… it gets old.. the rich get richer.. nobody wants his age 30+ yrs at top dollar but big spenders can afford those losses for the immediate gratification.
Teams like the Twins can’t affod that because making that deal means the SP and bullpen holes don’t get filled
Pads Fans
Its phenomenal value. An average of 5-6 WAR for 4 years at $35 million AAV is $50-75 million in surplus value.
That more than makes up for the 4 years of decline at the end.
stymeedone
Padres aren’t happy paying the back end of Hosmer’s comparably affordable contract. But the back end of Corey’s contract will be acceptable?! Would you like the last year of Miggy’s contract, now that the milestone numbers draw is passed? According to you, its acceptable.
LordD99
Only fans judge contracts based on the final years of a deal. Teams factor in the decline years up front.
Pads Fans
In what world is 3.7 WAR over 5 seasons comparable to 5-6 WAR EACH season? Its not? Exactly.
How old was Miggy when Detroit signed him to his current extension? How old is Correa? Exactly.
According to you black = white and an orange = an apple.
ohyeadam
New year, new needs for teams and new options to compete with
Steve Adams
I didn’t say it would. Quite the opposite:
“The reality is that while Correa might never find the ten-year deal and $35MM-ish annual value he was likely seeking last offseason, he can absolutely find a long-term pact that will trounce the remaining two years and $70.2MM on his current contract with the Twins.”
He doesn’t need to get 10/350 to comfortably outpace 2/70.
geoffb1982
I can see the Giants giving him 6/110… To play First Base.
Bdd1967
Why would he even consider coming back to Minnesota? They suck and always will. Move on if you want to win dude. You won’t in Minnesota. Guaranteed!
aragon
stained!
SliderWithCheese
Minnesotans are still bitter that the 1980 US Mens Olympic hockey team had 11 kids from MN on the team but the two stars were both Mass boys
Jack5102
Does this story support the premise that Correa is worth more thean $30 mil/year. Seems contradictory.. but hey writers!!!
GarryHarris
Angels, Mariners, ChiSox. That’s my guess.
empirejim
Angels??? Pretty sure NO big deals will be done in Anaheim until the team is sold…
stymeedone
Angels and White Sox already have payroll difficulties. Even if they trade Ohtani, the Angels are unlikely to put all their payroll on one player. That would actually be the reason that they do trade Ohtani. White Sox have to decide on Abreu, before they will know if they have any payroll to spend, and Correa isn’t settling for Abreu money.
msqboxer
You have Turner, Swanson and Correa all looking to get paid and not enough teams willing to spend to satisfy all. I know the Cubs are mentioned above, but believe Nico Hoerner is their guy at SS and they’ll spend elsewhere..
jagonza
He’s going to Philly – they have the loudest trash bins in MLB
User 3663041837
That’s one way to describe the people of Philadelphia
DBH1969
I don’t think the Red Sox will pursue. They have Story already. And if they did, then the FO would have to explain why they’re signing ANYBODY not name Bogaerts for 30 to 35 mils.
I would count the Sox out of this one.
put it in the books
Correa is great assuming you have another decent shortstop to play the 30-50 games he’ll miss.
Samuel
The other night I was watching the Guardians-Rangers game…..
No score around the 3rd or 4th inning. Ground ball to 2B. Marcus Semien boots what was a routine play, runner at 1B. Next batter hits a DP ball to SS Corey Seager. He boots that, runners at 1B and 2B. Cleveland announcer says that there’s $500m in salaries that just gave their team a break. Guardians go on to score 4 runs and never look back.
Every SS – FA and otherwise – has holes in their game….as does every ML player. Baseball is not a sport like football, basketball, or hockey where one can get the ball or puck to your top scorers whenever you want to; nor can the defense be modified to assure that your primary defender will be in on an inordinate amount of plays.
Last year a group of SS’s got humongous contracts. Not a one has led their team to the expanded playoffs. Lewis will replace Correa at SS in Minnesota if he leaves, Story for Bogaerts in Boston. As in 2022, it’s all about musical chairs in the marketplace. While there surely will be desperate owners / PoBO’s as there are every year, the smart agents will get their guys signed before the seats disappear.
kellin
I dont see anyone mention the typo, so I will… Third paragraph, first sentence probably should read “a pair of” not “a paid of”
Bright Side
SS are overvalued. I wouldn’t touch any FA SS. Swanson Ks too much and will decline in his 30s. Turner Ks too much as well and he’s weak defensively. He’s has too much Statcast blue foe me to like him.
Samuel
Bright Side;
SS’s are not overvalued. It’s the 2nd most important defensive position on the team next to Catcher, and the most important pure defensive position as they don’t handle pitchers and run games.
As usual most of the writers and posters here want to talk about how much the SS’s hit. That’s nice, but not their main responsibility on a team.
mlb1225
Turner strikeouts out too much? He has a 17.8% K-rate and has never struck out over 20% of the time in his career. The league average K% this year is 22.3%. He also isn’t weak defensively. He might not be the second coming of Ozzie Smith, but he has double digits in DRS and outs above average in his career. Even if he does slow down and his defense declines, he could move to second base easily, a position he played well early in his career and last year with LAD.
TrillionaireTeamOperator
Some players seem to just kinda casually convince teams to give them 5 to 10 years guaranteed at top dollar, while other players provide consistent numbers and value year in, year out, but can only muster 1-2 year deals at a time, then continue getting equivalent value short term deals that ultimately equal the value of the long term deals which evade them.
Correa seems like the latter. Correa seems like a guy who may very well earn the equivalent of a 9 or 10 year deal at $35M AAV or better, but he won’t get that on a single contract- or even just two contracts if you include his first year in Minnesota.
I might give him 7 years/$247.1M maximum but I think a 3 year/$111M deal is most likely, if he does indeed opt out of 2 years/$70.2M- but I just don’t think he will agree to the numbers or get an offer that equals the super long term mega deal he was originally seeking.
I think if someone like Correa truly believes he was worth 10 years/$350M or more, he should be comfortable taking 1-3 year deals that eventually add up to or exceed 10 years/$350M.
Samuel
I like Correa and think he’s the best SS in MLB……when healthy.
I wouldn’t give him more then 2 years with a team option for a 3rd. An AAV of around $35m – which is more than I think he’s worth.
That’s pretty much what he has with the Twins, so he may well find it best not to opt out.
SamtheMan!
. Correa is worth more on the open market and is going to opt out if the Twins don’t give him more.
Mega deals to free agents rarely have surplus value but he will certainly do better coming off another solid year. I’d say there’s about 0 chance barring an injury between now and then.
Samuel
Jbigz44;
1. Trust me, the Twins won’t give him more.
2. The Twins want him to opt out.
3. A lot of young SS’s have come up this year. More are coming up next year. I believe that most teams would rather find a SS making 25-35% of what Correa makes currently, and spend the rest of the money extending their own quality players and/or picking up a few guys that can help them in other areas. This surely applies to the Twins – a team that needs help just about everywhere.
4. Markets are dynamic, not static.
5. I have my doubts he’ll opt out. Too many expensive SS’s wanting large, long-term contracts….not enough teams willing to give them out.
SamtheMan!
. I think if he does opt out and the LT deal doesn’t materialize then some other team will give him a fat 2 year deal like the Twins did.
He’s too good of a player in his prime to not match that.
I’d take him on the Orioles also if it was for 2 years. Don’t want any part of a LT deal but I truly don’t believe there’s much risk for him opting out.
Expanded playoffs means there’s probably more desperate teams with money to spend. I could see the idiots in Colorado bailing him out like they did Bryant also in the absolute worst case.
Pads Fans
He is not signing 3 year year deal. 7-8 years at $35 million AAV
Pads Fans
I should have said another 3 year deal. His agent has certainly explored the market and if he thought that 3 years with a $35 million AAV is all that is available he would just stay in Minnesota.
He will undoubtedly surpass the $275 million Detroit offered him in a shorter term.
Rsox
If Boston doesn’t spend big to keep Bogaerts they won’t spend big to bring in Correa. If Bogaerts leaves they will probably just shift Trevor Story back to SS and play Keke or Arroyo at 2B and hope Nick Yorke is ready to make jump to MLB by the middle of next season/beginning of 2024
Samuel
Rsox;
As usual – you’re the Voice of Reason.
SamtheMan!
Nick Yorke has some pretty bad high A numbers.
Doubt bloom is going to count on him.
. Would be surprised if it isn’t Xander though, like you said, if he does spend. That or he waits out the market and jumps in with an offer like the Twins gave Correa to one of these guys who doesn’t get a megadeal
gotigers68
I was surprised that the Tigers didn’t lead the league in injuries….
Yanks2
Offered 275MM from Tigers
Won’t even get 175MM now
Serves him right for being the biggest clown in baseball since Josh Donaldson
foppert
He has 9 years to accumulate > 240M.
I’d back him in.
Quietest Nihilist
Which this clown would play 6/9 years worth of games and miss the other 3 total. Hopefully this morally corrupt, cheating POS doesn’t get that money. Sadly, things don’t cosmically work like that. He’ll get his money and sleep well at night despite being yet another great stain on baseball. Sorry for beating a dead trash can, after all “wE aLl MaKe MiStAkEs”.. I have no room to talk, “My TeAm WaS cHeAtInG tOo”.
Yanks2
He’s also overrated if you ask me. Good player, don’t get me wrong, but what a mistake it will be if any team actually gives him Seager money
Pads Fans
Your team got the biggest penalty in baseball history. No Braves fan has room to talk.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Minnesota shouldn’t be trying to build superstars. It hurts them to have guys like Buxton and Correa when they can trade them for prospects. Start thinking like the Rays or you’ll never get over that Yankees roadblock in the postseason.
A'sfaninUK
Beating the Yankees is easy, just give Judge the Barry Bonds treatment and don’t let him see 1 live pitch. Rest of lineup is mid at best. Even if you walk in a run, you likely will win.
fisher40
If your going to spend Big money on a SS this coming year, you’d want him playing everyday where durability isn’t a concern. Turner checks that box, Swanson checks that box. Correa? Not so much his youth is appealing to teams thats his only positive sorry but imo he’s the most over-rated and over hyped in MLB.
Pads Fans
Turner is the best SS available this winter. 14.2 WAR the last 3 seasons and very durable. Correa is top ten in games played at SS over past 3 seasons and he has a 14.0 WAR compared to Swanson’s 9.8 WAR over that period. Its not a contest.
If you want a great SS and are not willing to put up the 10/365 that the 29 year old Turner’s camp has been hinting they want, you are signing Correa over Swanson. Hands Down.
toomanyblacksinbaseball
Twins need to put Lewis at SS and let him succeed or fail. Price is right either way.
A'sfaninUK
Imagine being so brain-broken you think player salaries are good or bad or right or wrong. Like, not even the gameplay, your mind goes to the money. Tf why? You hate baseball.
mlb1225
Wut?
JoeBrady
That’s because everyone in the world has a budget. It doesn’t matter if you are rich or poor. I have a budget for home repairs. If I exceed the budget on windows, it means I have less to spend on paving.
benhen77
Still need a stopgap for next year. Royce’s ACL won’t be ready until mid season. If one on this year’s SS doesn’t get a long term deal, expect MIN to be there with a pillow deal.
CKinSTL
Seems like a no-brainer. I don’t think he will get anywhere near what he wants. Maybe the AAV takes a big hit but you gotta figure there is a contract better than 2 years/$70 million out there for Correa.
empirejim
They dont have trashcans in Twinkyville?
A'sfaninUK
Astros are 100% going to trade Pena so Correa can come back.
Dumpster Divin Theo
No laughing matter in Minnehaha
antsmith7
Mariners. Move JP to 3rd.
MPrck
Sure the article made my eyes bleed, but if he opts our of 70 million the next two years, the Minnesota executives should breath a sigh of relief. Good grief, he’s not worth that. How long before his girlfriend damages him again ? Teams in American central don’t need any 35 million a year guys. Chicago’s recent total collapse was shocking, Correa will be better served in a better division.
benhen77
Free agency pays about 8 mil per WAR. Correa is a 5 WAR player this year. 35 mil per year is fine for a shorter time horizon. 35 for ten years, maybe not.
outinleftfield
For 2022 it was just a touch under $9 million per WAR.
Pads Fans
Are you talking about bWAR or fWAR?
.
But his Q+P/Ratio are down by 210% compared to last season!! And his OWaiver+/-runs are way under what they should be for such a large contract. If he gets his PPWAR+% up then he might be in the ball park for a 20 or 30 year deal. Anyone wants to cross-check the above #’s I crunched please feel free..
TheStevilEmpire1
I dont think it’s so clear that he opts out. He could bet on himself by opting in without giving up $35 million. I seriously doubt after this season teams will be lining up to pay him like Nolan Arenado even with inflation.
When it comes right down to it, it’s the optics and circumstance that will drive his market down. The health concerns being the top reason. And although he has had a great September, April through August left a lot to be desired. This is also a strong class of shortstop. The dollars will be stretched for that position and the only one that will be getting 35 million annual money or more is Turner.
So if he does opt out for years over salary, who would be a player? The Cubs would be one if you trust what the owner says about spending more. The Giants might spend for him to get back into the Western division fold. Both of those teams are in need of a cornerstone player to build around like Texas did last year when they signed Seager.
1984wasntamanual
He’s a year older coming off a worse all around year. Giving him a “long term deal with multiple opt outs” for 30m+/yr doesn’t seem like a wise investment. He’ll be good in the first few years of the deal, but he’s starting to approach that age players noticeably decline.
h2oface
Correa was horrid all year in the clutch. Especially when it mattered most, with 2 outs and runners in scoring position. A total bust from the money man. If he would have delivered during the first part of the season the Twins would have been 20 games over .500 at the AS break. He finally got hot in September, when the season tanked. No pressure. He was also gifted several errors that were scored as hits by the charity workers called official scorers. The surge has happened when the pressure was off. Fools gold for the stat collectors.
After seeing him in Dodger Stadium and having to endure the most amazing persistent and massively loud booing and calls of “cheater” (certainly Dodger fans haven’t forgotten like the Astro fans and Twin fans) anytime he was batting and all during the at bat, one can see there is a reason he didn’t get what he wanted last off season. It would be truly hilarious if the Dodgers signed him and the fans had to deal with it. I bet he still won’t get the long term hight AAV contract he wants.
outinleftfield
.324/.398/.523/.921 with men on base.
h2oface
How many RBI with 2 outs and runners in scoring position, outinleftfield? I believe that is what I noted, right? I don’t know how to look it up, but watch the games and listen to stats. I can’t confirm or deny your sidetrack.
outinleftfield
41 AB. Are you seriously trying to make any kind of a conclusion on that small of a sample size? Say you aren’t please, because that would show a complete lack of understanding of baseball.
h2oface
What condescending arogance. If you now know the number of at bats, you know how horrible he has been when the money man came up to the plate in at bats that truly mattered, too, and you are just ignoring it and not reporting it like your other post. All players will have a limited number of at bats in that situation, but they carry a lot of weight. All ABs count and some ABs count way more than others. You continue to avoid or deflect the actual question. It is all opinion, anyway. So bug off and mess with someone else. You can advocate to sign the cheater and be a Correa apologist if you like. Many teams won’t and like last year, will chose not to sign him. And they will all consider the sss important ABs as they make the decision.
Samuel
h2oface;
He had me on Mute.
I just muted him.
This guys history is not being above board.
Pads Fans
What was stupid was even starting that conversation with him. If they are mentioning something like BA with RISP for a single season, you know what their response is going to be.
Don’t even bother.
outinleftfield
Boegarts has and existing relationship with Dombrowski. I could see him landing in Philadelphia
Pads Fans
They had an article on here a few weeks ago that mentioned Philadelphia as a likely landing spot for Bogaerts.