The Rays announced agreement Friday on a contract extension with Tyler Glasnow that will run through the 2024 season. The deal reportedly pays the Wasserman client $5.35MM in 2023, his final season of arbitration-eligibility, and jumps to a hefty $25MM in 2024. It also contains potential bonuses dependent upon Glasnow’s finishes in Cy Young balloting over the next two seasons.
Last year, the now-29-year-old Glasnow looked well on his way to establishing himself as one of the sport’s most dominant arms. Long a top prospect in the Pirates organization, Glasnow was infamously traded to the Rays, alongside Austin Meadows and Shane Baz, in exchange for Chris Archer — one of the most lopsided deals in recent memory.
He’s spent parts of four seasons with Tampa Bay — 2018-21 — and posted a combined 3.10 ERA and 3.19 FIP with 34.3% strikeout rate against a 7.9% walk rate. That includes a relatively slow start, as the big righty managed a 4.20 ERA through 11 appearances down the stretch after the 2018 deadline deal. Since the calendar flipped to 2019, Glasnow has been an excellent performer. He posted a microscopic 1.78 ERA across 60 2/3 innings in 2019, striking out a third of opponents while inducing grounders on over half the batted balls against him. While his ERA jumped to 4.08 during the shortened 2020 campaign, Glasnow punched out an even more impressive 38.2% of batters faced that season.
Everything seemed to be coming together last year, Glasnow’s age-27 campaign. He’d been on a potential Cy Young trajectory, starting 14 games and working to a 2.66 ERA over 88 frames through mid-June. He paired that with an elite 36.2% strikeout rate while generating swinging strikes on more than 17% of his offerings, but he blew out his elbow and was forced to undergo Tommy John surgery. That procedure ended his season and led to some speculation the payroll-conscious Rays could consider trading him last offseason, but there’s no indication they ever came close to doing so.
Glasnow maintained over the winter that he hoped to stick with Tampa Bay. He reiterated that sentiment when chatting with Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times this afternoon, saying he’d much preferred to stay in the organization. The Rays held onto him throughout his rehab process, and the former fifth-rounder could make his return to the mound later this season. Glasnow told Topkin he’s headed to Triple-A Durham to throw some live batting practice sessions and could soon embark on a minor league rehab assignment.
It’s a bold move for the Rays, whom Topkin notes have never previously paid a player a $25MM annual salary (although franchise shortstop Wander Franco will reach that mark in 2028 under the terms of the 11-year extension he signed last November). Next year’s $5.35MM figure represents only a marginal bump over this year’s $5.1MM mark, reflecting the fact that he hasn’t pitched all season and wouldn’t have been in line for a notable arbitration raise. It’s the 2024 commitment to buy out Glasnow’s first free agent year that comes as a surprise.
It’s easy to see both the high risk and reward of the move from Tampa Bay’s perspective. If Glasnow picks up right where he’d left off pre-surgery, he’ll immediately form a fearsome pairing with AL All-Star starter Shane McClanahan at the top of the rotation. It’s not uncommon for ace-caliber hurlers to surpass $30MM annually over a multi-year free agent investment, one the Rays seem unlikely to make. Even factoring in the potential bonuses, a $25MM base salary in 2024 would be more than reasonable if Glasnow pitches as he did in 2019-21, and the team isn’t on the hook for any longer-term commitment. It’s a match for the guarantee the Astros gave Justin Verlander last winter coming off two seasons largely lost to a Tommy John surgery of his own. Verlander has returned to the top of the rotation and pitched exceptionally, and the Astros have been handsomely rewarded for their investment.
At the same time, there’s no sugarcoating the downside for Tampa Bay if Glasnow suffers an injury setback or performance regression. The Rays have never opened a season with a player payroll higher than this year’s estimated $83.9MM tab, per Cot’s Baseball Contracts. Presumably, owner Stuart Sternberg is willing to push that number upwards over the coming two seasons, but it remains to be seen whether they’ll eclipse nine figures by that point. Glasnow’s deal could wind up counting for around one-quarter of the team’s player expenditures, and the club also has fairly notable salaries for Manuel Margot ($10MM) and Brandon Lowe ($8.75MM) for that season. Players like McClanahan, Randy Arozarena and Drew Rasmussen will have reached arbitration-eligibility by then as well.
It’s a bold strike from an organization that doesn’t customarily make this kind of financial investment. If all goes well, the Rays will get an extra season of ace-level performance for a price below the free agent market value. Glasnow, meanwhile, locks in a fair amount of financial security as he wraps up his Tommy John rehab. He tacks on another year with a club for which he’s clearly comfortable playing, and he could still land a multi-year deal once he hits the open market in advance of his age-31 season. There’s risk for the Rays in committing a sizable portion of their expected 2024 payroll to a player who hasn’t thrown an MLB pitch in 14 months, but they’re clearly confident Glasnow will be no worse for wear than he was before he went under the knife.
Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times first reported the Rays and Glasnow were in agreement on an extension that ran through 2024. Jeff Passan of ESPN was first to report the salary terms. Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic noted the presence of “significant” bonuses based on Cy Young finishes.
Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.
Yanks2
I’m surprised they didn’t think he was too expensive
hiflew
They haven’t “not traded” him yet.
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
Before the extension the trade value was pretty low. He’s not going to fully ready until next year at the earliest, which was originally his walk year. They definitely could trade him at the deadline next year and get more of a haul now though.
TheMan 3
While Glasnow’s potential will depend upon his recovery from TJ surgery, the Pirates are still waiting for a winning season from Chris Archer. Oh, that’s right, he plays for Minneapolis while we’re stuck with Josh Van Meter
padam
And Archer even made a pit stop back in Tampa.
Pete'sView
Chris Archer—even back then—had nowhere near the value of even one of those players. The Pirates GM (Neal Huntington) should have been let go based on that transaction alone.
hiflew
Archer was a lot like Jose Quintana. People kept saying they were much better pitchers than their records indicated. But that just wasn’t true. They pitched just well enough to lose close games.
Pete'sView
But Quintana was always the better pitcher.
SamtheMan!
Glasnow was a middling reliever for Pittsburgh.
Archer was a good starter for TB. Awful awful deal to give up all 3 but not completely true.
alwaysgo4two
Wow…..you put such an absolutely positive spin on that I got dizzy reading it.
TheMan 3
Take notice of recent pitchers the Bucs traded and how they flourished with other teams
Glasnow
Tyler Anderson
Charlie Morton
Jamison Tailion
Gerrit Cole
Cole had one good year with the Bucs as did Taliion but once all left the Pirates organization they each became better pitchers
It could be because player development in the Pirates organization is horrible
Mendoza Line 215
Glasnow had a 6.5 era his last year with the Pirates.He never developed.
Cole had one very good year and two good ones then had injuries that set him back to just better than average.The Pirates picked up a promising young pitcher in trade,
Taillon pitched fine-when he was healthy,which was just one year..The Pirates picked up a promising young pitcher in trade.
Morton was always hurt.They signed him to a big contract,then traded him,then he got hurt again and missed almost the whole season..
Anderson was a stopgap who did well on a one year contract.
There is a big difference between being realistic and critical,and just being plain negative all of the time..Some posters do not know the difference.
TDR
Also Joe Musgrove. Pittsburgh really had no idea what to do with their pitchers
Mendoza Line 215
Musgrove pitched well for Pittsburgh.What many if not most posters do not know about small market teams is that they have to trade most of the good soon to be free agents to acquire ML ready talent or talented prospects in order to survive.
TheMan 3
“ promising young pitchers “? You mean to say, young prospects
By the time these “ promising young pitchers “ reach their respective maturity, Nutting will trade them for more young promising pitchers, because he won’t want to spend the money to keep them.
I’ve been a Pirates fan since 1966, attended my first game at Forbes Field, attended the game in 1972 against the Mets when Clemente gathered his 3000th and last hit, watched them as perennial playoff contenders through the 70’s, the drug scandal of the 80’s, attended the 1994 All Star game at 3 Rivers Stadium, and was a season ticket holder for 30 years.
I’ve earned my entitlement of being critical of a team who’s owner cares more about profit than putting a competitive team on the field
You don’t like my opinions, Mendoza, don’t read them
TheMan 3
Spare me the tired “ small market “ nonsense. Cleveland, Milwaukee, Seattle, Miami and other baseball cities are considered small market teams
Difference is they invest in their players, put competitive players on the field which draws thousands of fans to their ballparks
The small market reason is just an excuse for ignoring the fact that Nutting’s a cheapskate
Basebombs
There is a big difference between organizations that can develop talent and those that can’t. When was the last time the Pirates developed a starting pitcher? Bob Walk? John Smiley?
User 401527550
Or they are trading them real early in their careers.
Basebombs
A proven strategy…
Mendoza Line 215
Everyone is entitled to their opinions but when they are constantly skewed negatively they lose credence because of their theme.
I have been a fan since 1961 when Willie Stargell was playing in the Sally League and remember walking home from Second Grade when Max hit the home run.I attended the last doubleheader at Forbes Field but quit attending many baseball games when it became more of a business than a sport.So you really don’t have anything on me TheMan.
We all have honest gripes about the Pirates.But one can go through life seeing the glass half empty or half full and I prefer the latter.
Mendoza Line 215
The Pirates problem has been that they have not brought along and taught players like other small market teams.It was the reason that Huntington lost his job.When they had the third best record in baseball over a three year period they were reclaiming pitchers from other teams either by free agency or by trade.Their method of trading for major league ready players generally worked very well..
Small market teams have won one World Series since 1991.
Milwaukee has never won a WS in 52 years.,Cleveland has not won one since 1948.Seattle has not even been to the playoffs since 2001.About the only two winning seasons that Miami has had in 25 years are when they won the WS,the latest being 19 years ago.
I know that you hate Nutting along with many other Pittsburghers but what he realizes is that any team,especially the small market ones,needs to have a good farm system so that they can add free agents to fill the holes.That is what BC has tried to do but I am not sure that it working.
The Pirates right now are like a sieve.No amount of high priced free agents will get them anywhere near a winning record.
Mendoza Line 215
They trade them generally near the time that they will become free agents,usually one to two years earlier.
Mendoza Line 215
The Pirates did not develop much of anything during their 20 year hiatus.Keller and Brubaker are now starting to show some decent ability..Cole and Taillon had to learn a lot during their time in Pittsburgh although both were very high draft choices.Someone was teaching them something.
The Pirates track record for developing pitchers has been poor though to say the least.Hopefully that is changing quickly since we all know that you need twice the number of pitchers to cover the whole year than the number that they take north.
GarryHarris
The Pirates have been making bad trades ever since I’ve been watching baseball. I remember when they unloaded Freddie Patek, Dave Cash, Willie Randolph, Al Oliver, Bert Blyleven, Goose Gossage, Jerry Reuss….
censorshipsuxblowme
between the 2, would have to be smiley, not only drafted later than walk, but bob was drafted by the phillies, played for them and atlanta before coming over to pittsburgh*.
*yes, i actually checked, having left jim thome’s page on b-r to look it up (and finding out today is jim’s birthday, so happy 52nd birthday, jim thome).
Mendoza Line 215
Garry Harris- What team does not make an occasional bad trade?
Patek went to the Royals for Bob Johnson and Jackie Hernandez,two key members of the WS championship 1971 team.
Cash went to the Phillies for Ken Brett to open up a spot for Rennie Stennett.Cash had a nice career after that but hardly was an all star.
Willie Randolph was traded for Doc Medich when the Pirates needed a pitcher.It turned out to be a bad trade.
Jerry Reuss netted Rich Rhoden who netted Doug Drabek.Do you think that that was a bad trade?
Not sure what you mean by Al Oliver and Bert Blyleven since they were traded for each other.Oliver was a fine player but they won the WS in 1979 with John Milner and Bert Blyleven.
The Blyleven trade was a very bad one,
Goose Gossage left as a free agent.
When you made your post did you ever consider any of the good trades that they made like Frank Taveras for Tim Foli?I doubt it.
TheMan 3
Blylevin was drafted by the Twins and was traded by Pittsburgh because he clashed with Chuck Tanner from the pitcher’s desire to pitch complete games.
Gossage had a phenomenal season in 76, I believe, leading all relief pitchers with 151 strikeouts and had 26 saves
He wanted to stay in Pittsburgh but they weren’t going to meet his demands on a salary.
He signed a free agent contract with the Yankees where he flourished
Al Oliver who in my opinion belongs in the HOF was traded to the Rangers for Bert Blylevin. The Bucs needed pitching and already had the “ Lumber Company “ players intact so they could afford to trade Oliver
hiflew
Do you know WHY all those pitchers flourished? Because they were all good pitchers that Pittsburgh had to get rid of before their PRIME years due to salary concerns. Pittsburgh could not afford to keep any of them, so they had to do what they had to do.
GarryHarris
Every team makes bad trades. I was simply being retrospective and going on my flawed memory. However, I’m not backing down on the Freddie Patek, Bruce Del Canton and Dave May for Jackie Hernandez, Bob Johnson and Jim Campinas trade.
I will acknowledge that Bob Johnson was a post season hero especially when Pittsburgh needed him the most. But Pittsburgh gave up Bruce Del Canton who was a similar pitcher but pitched longer than Johnson. May was a better catcher than Campinas but, Patek was a dynamo and Pittsburgh didn’t have a decent SS for years afterward while Hernandez wasn’t even a very good defender. Frank Taveras was a base stealing machine as was Patek but Taveras was a poor defender and made bad decisions.
Rennie Stennett was perhaps my favorite NL player but he was a converted OF and not the 2B Dave Cash was. I know Pittsburgh always was short on SPs however. Cash was the second best lead off hitter in MLB after Pete Rose.
Pittsburgh would’ve been even more formidable if they had all three Cash, Stennett and Patek in their lineup.
Mendoza Line 215
You have an excellent memory of the Pirates of that era.
If you recall Gene Alley was the best shortstop in baseball for a year or two and although his injury greatly lessened his impact I think that at the time of the Patek trade they may have deemed Patek somewhat redundant but got Hernández to cover themselves.He played well that year and in the WS. Could they have won the WS without Johnson?Maybe,maybe not.It went seven very close games.
What you say in the comparison of all the players in the trade is true.
But if it was enough to put the Pirates over the top in 1971 I think that you would agree that it was a good trade to make.
Regarding Cash,I do not necessarily disagree although I think that you may be hyping him some.They got Ken Brett for him which was a good return.I had also heard a rumor about him from a personal standpoint that would be cause for a trade.If true,those are details that would not have come to the public realm in that era.
holecamels35
Archer was such a lousy pitcher to watch, I tried to like this trade at first but he has literally no fastball to speak of. He throws a mean slider but either can’t locate the fastball or get whiffs with it, and when guys would back off the slider, he’d just toss it over the middle. In all fairness, this goes to show the volatility of starting pitching in general. Glasnow looked awful, then looked like an ace, now looks like he may never pitch more than 150 innings. Baz looks great when he plays but can’t stay on the field either. Just can’t predict the injury bug.
Mendoza Line 215
Especially with pitchers.A fascinating statistic to me would be the % of pitchers who have had at least one TJ surgery or TO surgery.My guess is that insurance rates would be much higher on high priced pitchers than on,position players except possibly catchers.
rememberthecoop
Good idea. Wouldn’t want to have been paying him all this time and then get only 1 year out of him.
marrtho
Traded after ‘23
Lars MacDonald
Or at the ‘23 deadline.
This move is all about a future trade.
Lars MacDonald
This is all about retaining a tradeable asset.
kc38
They will have the nastiest rotation by far in 2023 and it’s not even close.
Sfgiants4l
With who
Asdwzxcv
Probably Glasnow + their 3 starters with sub 3 eras LMAO
kc38
McClanahan, Glasnow, Rasmussen, Baz, springs/patino/ Bradley. Nobody in the league is coming close to touching that rotation
paddyo furnichuh
kc38….It seems like you may be blending potential and ceiling of each of those top 4 to actually all 4 of them doing it next year.
But it’s good for fans have to have hope bordering on hubris.
Mendoza Line 215
Paddy- You are correct,hope springs eternal.
But at 250 to 1 average odds for any particular small market team to win the World Series I woundn’t put too much money on it.
User 401527550
Mets, Dodgers, Yankees, Braves, Padres and Astros will have better rotations.
bwmiller
Verlander, McCullers, Valdez, Urquidy, Garcia, Javier, Brown
Urquidy a bit underrated, he has excellent SO/BB ratio and McCullers hasn’t missed a beat since returning from IR.
Dodgers also have a nice staff when the get Buehler back,
Buehler, Kershaw, Urias, Gonsolin, Anderson, Heaney, May and they have some nice prospects.
I’d take both the Astros and the Dodgers rotations over what the Rays have in place, possibly the Marlins and the Mets too.
Sideline Redwine
Was talking to my son about that. Glas, Sugar Shane, Ras, Baz, Springs…Taj and Patino in the wings? If healthy, that is a formidable bunch!
rocky7
Yes, a big “if”……we guess you like nicknames right?
Sideline Redwine
Sweet.
Manfred is awful
All the idiot Steeler fans who jumped on the Pirates bandwagon 2013-2018 loved Archer. They were so excited to set the franchise back 10 years to acquire an avg #3 starter with two pitches. Instead of randomly screaming STEELERS for no reason or getting in fights at Heinz Field from 2013-2018 these Steeler fans were baseball experts. They had all the great trade ideas. They wanted to trade Meadows, Tallion and Bell, Glasnow, and every other prospect every year at the deadline.
Now all they have left is listening to a slob named Mark Madden talk about x rated films, hockey, soccer and strip clubs.
padam
You forgot Cole.
TheMan 3
Not all Steeler fans care about the Pirates, Manfred, but regarding the Pirate fans being excited about trading for Archer, I myself was disgusted by it
Huntington gambled the future of the Bucs in exchange for a has been who had already peaked on his potential and was a high risk gamble.
And I’m no yinzer though I’ve lived in the Pittsburgh area for most of my life
YourDreamGM
Trading a reliever with control problems they couldn’t fix, a average outfielder dh, and a prospect they wouldn’t be able to develop didn’t set a franchise back 10 years. And any well ran team can rebuild in 5 years.
Manfred is awful
All of the idiot yinzers loved the Archer trade.
cwalla24
Even us idiot yinzers knew this was a bad trade before the players even put their new uniforms on… Not sure who you’re friends with in the burgh but at the time not even my dumbest friends thought this was a good idea
Mrsuntan
Mac,Glas,Rass,Baz,Patino,Bradly,Springs. If healthy the best and Deepest rotation in baseball.
MaNameIsYeffff
I see way to many unproven prospects in that list to call it the “best” let alone the deepest in baseball
Mrsuntan
4 of the 7 are proven. I will bet on the pedigree of the other 3
MaNameIsYeffff
Your “proven” players still have a lot more to prove when guys like Scherzer put up 200 innings a season. While Glasnow has 400 innings; The rest are in the 200 or lower range over their careers.
kc38
There is 0 unproven prospects in that rotation. They have the best starting staff right now then add Glasnow is insane
MaNameIsYeffff
You are classifying players with a career total of 200 innings as proven stars. That is what a proven star puts up in a season.
hiflew
Well if you weren’t sure he would be traded in 2023 before the contract details were announced, you should be 100% sure now. No way will he be in Tampa in 2024 at $25MM.
Mendoza Line 215
The Rays better hope that Glasnow comes back and comes back well because no one is going to take that contract off their hand unless he does,
He was also the one to complain the loudest on the crackdown on the sticky substances so we shall see what happens.
I wonder why the Rays would think that they needed to do this deal? I guess that it means another year of control but it is a big chance that they are taking.
StPeteStingRays
I 100% agree with you. No way Glasbow will be playing in Tampa in 2024. The lease in St. Petersburg doesn’t expire until 2027.
hiflew
I’ve been to both cities. Their is no difference. Both are dumps.
StPeteStingRays
I get it. I lump philly, nyc, and boston together as one: same lint, different belly button.
rocky7
Okay, a 29 soon to be 30 year old 20-20, 6 soon to be 7 year, 4 ERA, 400 inning lifetime….2 pitch starting pitcher…..coming off TJ……..he sure looks like he’s worth $25 Million a season !
Mrsuntan
I will assume the rays front office knows more then you
Mendoza Line 215
Maybe,maybe not.They do not seem to have that kind of money to throw around.
MaNameIsYeffff
Verlander came back from his TJ while being 10 years older than Glas and is showing no adverse effects? If Stroman can lock up $71m over 3. or Ryu $80m over 4 then $25m for a year of Glasnow when he could hit the open market is a steal.
bwmiller
Verlander has great mechanics, best leg plant in baseball, arm is in the slot every pitch, Glasnow is not nearly as refined, he doesn’t put his shoulder and torso into pitches like Verlander, his arm slot is whippy and long, if he is going to pitch for many years, he’ll have to shorten up and pitch more with his body than his arm.
JimmyForum
The Rays have one of the ugliest uniforms in baseball, therefore I will not be commenting on this post. And no, this doesn’t count.
Mrsuntan
But the “Devil Rays” uni is great.
fljay73
This extension ensures Glasnow stays with the Rays at least through the 2023 season.
DarkSide830
$25 for what will probably be another sub-100 IP season.
rememberthecoop
I know, that’s crazy. Before I heard the amount, I considered this a good move by the Rays. But 25M? Hell, that’s half the team’s payroll! Look, I know the Astros paid Verlander that much after surgery, but Glasnow doesn’t have his pedigree.
rememberthecoop
What does Stroman have to do with this? A free agent coming off a healthy, solid season was worth being paid more in order to limit the length of the deal.
YourDreamGM
Terrible extension. Rays can do a lot with 25 million. Likely comes back fine but if he doesn’t yikes. Give me the 25 million and possible comp pick. At least get a team option for another possible year. Probably works out but I think they could have got him cheaper or another year.
denistaylor
But I thought the Rays were so amazing because they chose to spend less than other teams. Guess it’s getting harder to do that.
retire21
This is likely highway robbery imho. Reg season 4.00+ERA / post season 6.20+ERA. Clearly needed his “special sauce” to be dominant. I guess we’ll see. Worst trade ever? Please. Not by a long shot.
Mendoza Line 215
Retire-Although many trades can be assessed fairly accurately after three years this one cannot because of the ages of the three young players sent to the Rays and the injuries to all four players.I find it interesting to note that what would have happened if Archer had stayed healthy and regained some of his earlier career form?
In any event I found it amusing and highly entertaining when posters would make the claim.Were they too young to remember the Frank Robinson trade or so lacking of basic baseball knowledge to know of the trade of Babe Ruth? You cannot make this stuff up.
I speak the truth
Glasnow is toast it’s wasted money.
Mrsuntan
Your post is toast, wasted words
dcahen
Remember when the Rays were in the World Series a few years ago & started that stud Glasnow in game 7? Problem was he reverted back to the wild guy he was with the Pirates. Remember, they lost that game & the series. The Pirates made a bad trade because Archer flamed out. But, if it’s such a generational lopsided trade, what did Tampa get ultimately? Meadows is gone, Glasnow can’t pitch if he can’t pine tar the ball, & Baz, the jury is still out on him. It’s quite possible the Pirates win a WS before the Rays ever do.
dcahen
Remember when the Rays were in the World Series a few years ago & started that stud Glasnow in game 7? Problem wa or s he reverted back to the wild guy he was with the Pirates. Remember, they lost that game & the series. The Pirates made a bad trade because Archer flamed out. But, if it’s such a generational lopsided trade, what did Tampa get ultimately? Meadows is gone, Glasnow can’t pitch if he can’t pine tar the ball, & Baz, the jury is still out on him. It’s quite possible the Pirates win a WS before the Rays ever do.
dcahen
Remember when the Rays were in the World Series a few years ago & started that stud Glasnow in game 7? Problem wa or s he reverted back to the wild guy he was with the Pirates. Remember, they lost that game & the series.
The Pirates made a bad trade because Archer flamed out. But, if it’s such a generational lopsided trade, what did Tampa get ultimately? Meadows is gone, Glasnow can’t pitch if he can’t pine tar the ball, & Baz, the jury is still out on him. It’s quite possible the Pirates win a WS before the Rays ever do.
Mrsuntan
Stupid post x3
Pete'sView
It’s because of the site. There’s something wrong—I’ve pinged Tim about it—but it continues to post the same message two or three times. It is not the posters fault.
Mendoza Line 215
I have found that since the pop ups came that it is easy for the poster to make this mistake.The key is did the “take” occur,although you quite often cannot tell for a few minutes.If you do not see the pc “thinking” then it may not have taken.The problem is that the pop up can come on immediately after you push the “push comment” button.
Sometimes it happens when you edit,and the edits do not always take.That is why it is important to read the post thoroughly right after you have finished writing it.
What has frustrated me is a couple of times I have typed my normal long post and it failed to take so I have to remember what I said.
This is a wonderful site and the trolls and deadbeats are usually easy to figure out.I enjoy it very much.
Hope that this helps.