In what could mark a monumental change for minor league players and for Major League Baseball alike, the Major League Baseball Players Association sent authorization cards to all minor league players late Sunday evening, wherein the minor leaguers were asked to vote on designating the MLBPA as their collective bargaining representatives. ESPN’s Joon Lee first reported that the cards had been sent out, and MLBPA executive director Tony Clark later confirmed to ESPN that the initial steps had been taken by the MLBPA. Evan Drellich of The Athletic has also taken a lengthy look at the matter. The MLBPA has since formally announced, via press release, an effort to unionize minor league players.
In the event that 30% of minor leaguers sign their authorization cards, the cards will be presented to the National Labor Relations Board as a means of displaying the substantial interest in unionization. At that point, an election would be held among minor league players. If a requisite 50% of those who vote do so in favor of the MLBPA becoming the collective bargaining arm of minor league players, the NLRB would subsequently require Major League Baseball to recognize the union. That election would be subject to the NLRB’s administrative process and could take months to advance, however.
In an email to player agents, Clark cited “poverty wages, oppressive reserve rules, discipline without due process, ever expanding off-season obligations, appropriation of intellectual property, substandard attention to player health and safety, and a chronic lack of respect for minor leaguers as a whole” as key factors for minor league players to consider when deciding whether to provide their authorization.
Clark’s email also included various financial data on recent minor league revenues, including an $864MM gross revenue from the 2019 season (prior to the Covid-19 pandemic); the recent sale of a majority stake in the Sacramento River Cats (the Giants’ Triple-A club) and their stadium for more than $90MM; and the fact that the majority of minor leagues salaries, ranging from $4800 annually in Rookie ball to about $15,400 annually in Triple-A, check in shy of the poverty line, as defined by the federal government (Twitter link via Drellich). Those salary figures are in direct contrast to MLB commissioner Rob Manfred’s recent assertion that he “rejects” the notion “that minor league players are not paid a living wage.”
Unionizing the minor leagues would be a massive undertaking for the MLBPA, which until this point has only represented the roughly 1200 players who are on Major League 40-man rosters at a given time. Expanding the union’s ranks to include the minor leagues would add more than four times that many members to the existing group. While it may also seem to present potential conflicts of interest between established players and the fledgling newcomers, an MLBPA official tells MLBTR that the union’s executive board voted “overwhelmingly” in favor of inviting minor leaguers and received no opposition on the matter. Furthermore, the proposed unionization efforts would give minor leaguers their own separate bargaining unit under the MLBPA umbrella, and any minor league CBA would be negotiated independently of the Major League CBA that was completed earlier this year.
The steps toward unionization come on the heels of a class action settlement that saw Major League Baseball pay out $185MM to more than 20,000 players, stemming from a dispute as to whether those players should be compensated for Spring Training. Major League Baseball’s antitrust exemption is also once again under a microscope, as bipartisan members of the Senate Judiciary Committee in late June called for a need to reexamine that now-century-old ruling.
Major League Baseball has taken steps in recent years to improve conditions for minor leaguers, most notably requiring teams to provide housing for their minor league players. Of course, many of those changes came only after MLB gutted the minor leagues, eliminating 42 minor league clubs in the 2020-21 offseason.
The MLBPA has been working in conjunction with Advocates For Minor Leaguers, an advocacy group whose mission statement cites a need to establish “fair pay and equitable treatment” for minor league players. “The game of baseball will be better for everyone when minor leaguers have a seat at the table,” Advocates executive director Harry Marino told ESPN.
As part of the joint initiative between the MLBPA and Advocates for Minor Leaguers, Clark and Marino announced this morning that “Each member of the Advocates for Minor Leaguers staff has resigned to take on a new role working for the MLBPA.”
“Minor Leaguers represent our game’s future and deserve wages and working conditions that befit elite athletes who entertain millions of baseball fans nationwide,” Clark said in Monday morning’s statement. “They’re an important part of our fraternity and we want to help them achieve their goals both on and off the field.”
This should be fun.
Yes, but it’s about time. This will increase the negotiating leverage of the MLBPA, which should benefit all players.
Keep in mind those minor league salaries are not for a full year of work. They are for a season. Naturally, they will not be comparable to a year round job salary. I am not saying whether it should be for more or less than it currently is. Also, revenue generated by a short season team will be much less than a AAA team. There is a lot to factor in.
This is where creativity might come into play–support services offered all the players on the roster–assistance with housing, food, basics.
Short season died two years ago.
All Single-A teams play 132 games.
That’s the reasoning the MLB ballclubs have used for ages for paying such pittances for wages to the minor leaguers. But then, minor leaguers are expected to put in their own time and money YEAR ROUND for training and the like, not to mention having a roof over their heads and food in their bellies. They are expected to put in work all year long, but are only paid for the time that they are “actually working” at paid games. It’s time they started being paid for the work they are putting in and are not put into a position where 4-6 guys aren’t sharing a single hotel room and boxes of ramen to make ends meet for 2 years.
The rookie leagues are still short season. They used to have 2 rookies leagues teams per most MLB teams. One for HS aged players and the others College. aged players. Now only the FCL and the ACL exist and the are both short season.
@gozurman Maybe they only play half the year. But they work on their craft pretty much 24/7 for 365 a year. They should be fairly compensated
The players are making 5-10k a “season”. During this season, they are working 60-80 work weeks w lousy travel and sure are not getting overtime. They are also training and working during the on-baseball season as well .
MLB can sure afford to pay every minor leaguer the same amount of money as if they were working at the gas station. Getting these salaries over time to a somewhat more reasonable base with better basics is in everyone’s interests
But they work on their craft pretty much 24/7 for 365 a year.
=========================
I’m not taking sides, but an awful lot of people put work into their physical fitness.
There are no Rookie leagues.
These are folded into the Complex leagues, which the teams own and run out of their Spring Training sites. They never had, nor do they now charge admission.
The Complex leagues don’t count toward the 120-team maximum.
True. Many people do things outside of their jobs that make them more competitive in their jobs. I spent part of my weekend reading up on current SEO strategies. I’m not being paid additional for it, but it will help in the overall value I deliver. A team shouldn’t pay for an athlete for working out, although they should pay a salary so the player can keep in shape.
I’ve worked in corporate and education. I’ve heard the “summers off” nonsense. When I was in corporate, I studied 700 hours a year for actuarial exams that had a 35% pass ratio in addition to working my way up to the executive level. Education is even harder than that.
My nephew is a professional baseball player, was drafted in 2017, has had two TJ surgeries and just had an additional surgery for a nerve problem. He can start throwing in September. He has two innings under his belt. He works hard, trust me. I’ve run 23 marathons, a couple of ultras, and numerous trail races. He works harder at his craft than I do at mine. And I’m no slouch.
Except the ACL
Wait. You think a baseball players season is only during the time games are being played?
@paul r
Thank you. I did not realize that. I was under the impression that the lowest league played fewer games. Still, I would think lower level teams do not have the same revenue, and payroll would have to be less at those levels. Red Roof employees get less than Hyatt employees. Similar situation.
I studied 700 hours a year for actuarial exams
================================
Was this work time or off time? Because doing these things gets paid for by getting promotions. To me, that’s the same as being a minor leaguer. I studied for the CPA. I technically did not get paid for it. I get paid indirectly by adding it to my resume.
But more to the point, this is how it is in very low floor/very high ceiling professions. How much do standup comedians get paid starting out? How about musicians starting out at clubs?
These folks might get paid $25/gig, and spend 20 minutes driving each way. Just like BB, you either get paid very little, or you make a gazillion $$$.
JoeBrady, companies generally allowed you some study time at work but at most it was 200 hours a year, the other 500 hours were at night and on weekends. Plus, there were exam classes that you could go to (often in Philly) but you had to pay for most of that and take personal days. Fun fact: at one of those classes, we stayed in the same hotel as the visiting New York Mets. The lobby was pretty crazy every day. But we did get exam raises so passing was a big deal. Also, many positions were dependent on how may exams you had passed (there were 10 in all back then, now there’s 9).
I am also a jazz musician, speaking of low paying gigs. I usually make $100-150 for a gig after arriving with my double bass and bass amp, tossing a few thousand dollars worth of equipment in the car for the drive. I did not attend music school so I chose to attend a number of jazz workshops over the years, mostly one week or two weeks long, on my own dime. Plus, lessons when I first started out (as an adult) cost a bit over the first few years. Then there’s the practicing and the getting together with my trio to run through tunes. But I’m on YouTube, so I’m famous. No, not at all.
I had to study accounting for one of my exams, all about the statutory versus GAAP rules, Annual Statements, and other stuff. Yummy!
Exactly PaulR. Short season, 60 games played A- ball leagues were cancelled and only those located away from ST complexes, being more expensive to run and the DR.
Half season leagues, located at both Florida and Arizona ST facilities still exist and are 100% team financed, with team housing from mid June thru late August.
What was maxed out when the A- leagues were done away with is max amount of players can have within a system at any given time. Several would probably like to have more so called complex teams than they do currently. What is the current limit? 150? 180? DR league rosters count and some have 2 teams there.
Some thoughts I posted below.
Triple-A season is 150 games, Double-A is 138 games, and High-A and Single-A are each 132 games. The average is a 23.5 week season
Here is a typical day for a minor league player.
Show up at the ballpark at 10 am. (based on 6:30 pm game time)
Workout for 90-120 minutes in the gym.
Have lunch provided by the team.
Pre-game meetings with position coaches.
Do on the field workouts with position coaches.
Then batting practice and fielding practice starting at 4:30.
Game starts at 6:30pm. Game ends around 10pm.
Post game meeting.
Shower and dress then go out for dinner around 11:00 or 11:30 pm.
12+ hour days, 6 days per week. 72 hours per week. NOT including travel time. For 5 months.
And earn $4800 (rookie and low A) to $15,400 (AAA) to do it. The average is $8100 per season.
Do the math.
The average minor league season is a 23.5 weeks. x 72 hours per week or 1692 hours worked. NOT including travel time that is compensated for in other lines of work. Divide $8100 average per season by 1692 hours worked.
Even if you are talking about AAA players that earn $15400 per season and work 2 more weeks (25 weeks/1836 hours worked not including travel time),
That = slave wages.
Plus, minor league players are NOT paid during spring training and fall or winter leagues.
Here is what the Chicago Tribune had to say about it 2 days ago.
“The players don’t get paid during various required periods of work like spring training, extended spring training, fall instructional league and the winter offseason when players are both contractually and practically required to perform work for their teams.”
The total cost of salaries for a team in rookie league ball is $124,800. MLB pays that cost, so the local team is just providing the place to play, while collecting all ticket sales, sponsorship money, concessions, and parking.
Joe, to add to your point, nobody makes these guys work out on their “off time.” These players choose to work out harder, longer, and train more for purposes of getting a leg up on the competition. It’s no different than any other competitive field. It’s not an acceptable argument that they will fail if they don’t put in that extra time – that’s an irrelevant emotional appeal.
Simply put: the more time one puts in to his craft, and the harder one works towards perfecting his craft, the greater the opportunities for advancement/promotion. It’s exactly as you’ve written about your CPA, or many other careers wherein competitive promotions or advancements exist.
I’m shocked that there are so many people that believe players should get paid for extra work they put into their craft. If it’s mandatory training, I am fully on board. But, anything more can be taken to an illogical extreme.
Clipper, I think the point is to pay these guys enough so they can support themselves. Many get other jobs. Now, when the job is at a baseball related facility (like my nephew), they can take advantage of opportunities to work more. But when they’re going to school for college credits to help prepare for their future (also like my nephew), it’s harder to get in the extra work. The second example is totally on the individual. But MLB is paying for that because he was drafted out of high school. So the money for it is there. It’s not a bad gig, he can live at home (like most kids his age) when he’s not doing baseball. But there are many who don’t have that option.
Hayzee: Yes, I certainly see that point. Part of the problem with this discussion to begin with is that it is so broad in both financial terms and terminology. So, it’s very difficult to interpret many comments because the comments could be referencing such a wide range of ideas, ie, pay & support.
My comment was addressing those comments specifically suggesting extra pay for working out. No doubt, however, their pay should increase as a matter of practice. I don’t think anyone would argue they get paid adequately, and I certainly didn’t mean to convey that.
I do wish your nephew luck. I know you’ve written he’s had to recover from some injuries too. Hopefully he does well.
When they require that workout to be at a team facility they should be paying that athlete.
MOST industries pay for continuing education. I pay my employees to take training that makes them better at their job. If your company doesn’t, its time to find a new employer.
The days when professional baseball player was genuinely a part time job are long gone — that was when they were mostly a bunch of out of shape slobs, they had no batting cages, no video, no motion capture, no coaches giving them detailed off-season training strategies to up their game. Anybody who treats it as a part time job certainly has no chance at the majors. And that’s why paying minor leaguers better will improve the quality of the players in the game.
There are no short season teams anymore A, A+, AA, AAA. Others are now called complex leagues and the players are not compensated at all for time in those leagues.
Get ready for a couple more minor leagues to be cut and the draft shortened again. Let college be your minors just like the NFL does it. Why put your own time and money in when you done need to?
Where have you gone Jimmy Hoffa? A union cries out for you
It’s amazing the strongest players union took this long to realize minor leaguers should be apart of their union.
That’s because they don’t really give a damn about them.
It’s a good reason for me to continue to not watch minor league baseball
So let me see if I understand your point. It was wrong for major leaguers to avoid this issue for so long, but it’s also wrong for them to take it on now.
You should say “a part”, not “apart.” Just busting your chops, but it kind of changes the meaning.
True story. Look, I’m someone who has a pet peeve about how people tend to abuse the language in social media and text messages, including commentary on sites such as this. But in this specific case, you bring up a valid point that it changes the meaning.
How do you think they got so strong???
They want the additional revenue stream, even when it kills so many minor league teams and jobs.
Nothing the MLBPA is doing will kill even one job in the minors.
Hopefully they succeed as MLB continues to treat the minor league players like dirt. Of course MLB will respond by cutting more minor league teams for economic reasons and blame the MLBPA.
The redesign of MiLB for 2022 already anticipated a union for MiLB players.
Minor league baseball teams don’t really generate much revenue, so unionizing them could end up being disastrous
The minor league team I have season tickets for is absolutely raking in the bucks, hard to get a ticket for nowadays. And they sure seem to sell a lot of $9 beers. I doubt they are the exception.
Very little of that is actually profit though. The reason why these teams keep getting cut is because they cost more than they are worth. I remember a GM years ago talking about how it actually costs money to operate minor league clubs
There are two businesses here, Chemo. One is an entertainment business that owns a stadium and collects gate revenue and beer money. The other provides the entertainment, the players, and pays their salaries. The former is profitable, the latter is a necessary evil if you are going to develop players.
READ the article. MiLB teams are extremely profitable which is why even A ball are selling for in excess of $30 million. The last 5 teams sold were $60-90 million.
The reason 42 teams got cut is MLB took over ownership of ALL minor league baseball leagues and since they were being forced to pay current and former players $15 million and pick up housing for players starting in 2023 by the courts, they punished the players by cutting 1200 jobs.
While the entire minor league payroll for every player was only the cost of one middle reliever, they still cut all those teams and jobs.
It has nothing to do with the profitability of the minor league teams.
The local team that we see (Low A Dunedin) is lucky to draw 300 fans even with such promotions as Thrifty Tuesdays with $2 tickets, $2.00 hot dogs, and $2.00 beer or soda. Part of the low attendance has been attributed to everything from the 6:30 PM league start times, the affiliation with Toronto, and the heat and humidity. I guess it is some combination of the three.
In any event, it is not profitable for the Blue Jays.
Florida doesn’t draw fans at the major league level. Come to North Carolina with a team in almost every city and the crowds are full most nights.
The Dunedin Blue Jays were last in attendance for all of minor league baseball the past 10 seasons, averaging only 848 fans per home game according to MILB.
That is why they have been pushing for a move to the Astros complex for years.
Minor leagues are the R&D portion of the business.
A lot of the R&D is spent on players that will make -0- contribution. Each team would be lucky to have 10 minor leaguers that will actually be regular players. I count 3-4 RS prospects that I expect to become regulars, and another 3-4 that might become regulars.
you can apply that same logic to pharmaceuticals, toy companies etc. plenty of companies dump millions into R+D to only have a few products make it to market etc while the vast majority never get there. It’s really no different and in this case doesn’t involve people as the commodity.
True, but with drugs, every drug has a chance to be something important. With most minor leaguers, there is very little chance they will contribute. If MLB replaced the entire minor league system with a training facility, they would probably lose nothing. Train maybe 30 players every day, combined with playing other teams 30 players.
acell10;
Tell us the percentage of R & D departments of companies that are unionized.
that’s a different problem all together Samuel. I was just expanding on the example that was provided. More probably should be though.
@Samuel I found one example: Ford spent $7.1B, General Motors spent $7.9B, Airbus spent $2.85B, and Boeing spent $2.47B on expenses related to R&D during fiscal 2020.
Revenue generation is completely secondary for teams that are affiliated with a major league team. MLB teams need to develop players. There’s no way around that. The minors exist for player development and feeding major league clubs. Any profit generated is gravy.
That’s my point though. What exactly are you unionizing if there’s no profit to be made? If they unionize the minor leagues are force them to pay they’ll probably get rid of the majority of teams
No, they won’t get rid of the majority of the teams because, like I said, MLB *needs* the minors to develop their players, irrespective of revenue generated by the minor league teams.
The MiLB players want to unionize because MLB is making tons of profit and the minors subsidizes MLB by developing their players for them.
MLB and MiLB are in the same boat. MLB would be a vastly inferior product without the minors.
rct;
Don’t you people get it?
There IS NO profit.
The minor leagues don’t subsidize the major leagues. Minor league franchises lose money. It’s the major league teams that subsidize the minor league teams.
If there was a profit with minor league teams they would be privately owned and players they develop would be sold to to major league clubs (as it used to be before Branch Rickey developed farm systems). Most of those minor league operations lost money and were constantly being sold.
Where I live we have a minor league team. Most of the people working there are volunteers; interns working to get time down on a resume; and a few supervisors that make a bit over minimum wage. The franchise needs partnerships with many local hospitals and businesses in the area just to tread water.
Go unionize the people that work for the minor league teams. They’re no different than the players – hoping to get a job that pays well with an established organization.
And when you’re done – how about unionizing college students? Those people are being trained to work in business. manufacturing, entertainment, etc. (and like baseball, there aren’t enough jobs for those that graduate). Why do they have to pay money to get an education? And if they’re substandard, why can’t they just hang around universities all their lives taking some classes and living off of the university? (Actually, many people do, but they have to either mooch off of students that don’t know better or pretty much steal.)
@Samuel: Did you read anything I wrote? Whether or not the minors turns a profit is irrelevant for teams that are affiliated with MLB teams. The MLB teams make profits and it is because they use the minors to develop their players. Try to imagine what MLB would look like if they didn’t have minor league teams to develop players.
MLB *needs* MiLB. It’s that simple.
What you wrote is totally irrelevant!
Trade schools exist in this country. Graduates are employed by industry. Are trade school students supposed to unionize because some of them will go on to work for companies that may make a profits?
Those minor league teams are NOT owned by MLB teams. They have working agreements with them. They are private enterprises. In the same way trade schools often have partnerships which businesses in the area.
FYI – those players will of course unionize. And the result will be less minor league teams, and less opportunities for young players, higher costs for consumers of MLB baseball, and lower product quality.
Read the article. Huge profits are being made in the minors.
This analogy makes no sense…trade school students pay the school to learn skills whereas MiLB players are paid by their organizations to use and apply their skills as baseball players. When trade school students are done with school many of them go on to join unions right away. Students are essentially guaranteed to graduate, but there is no such guarantee for a guy in the minors to someday crack the majors. Unionization has its issues but it’s very clear that MiLB players are getting shafted and they deserve better compensation. Guys who max out at AAA shouldn’t have to work a second job to afford to live.
Did you read the article you are commenting on? Minor league ball is extremely profitable.
This is great news for the players. It’s also anticipated. The redesign of minor league baseball already in place for 2022 – fewer leagues, fewer players under team control, plus housing under control of MLB teams, etc – clearly anticipates this will happen.
It’s a terrible move for players unionizing always hurts the little guy and makes cronies rich
And somebody will have to pay for these additional expenses too – guess who that will be ?
You don’t have to pay for it if you don’t want too.
This is what a generous C- in Econ gets you…
No, it is simple common sense.
1-I am pro-player on this one. There is probably a lot that can be done to make their lives better.
2-That said, where do you think the money comes from? Just like the owner of the local diner, if they need to pay more for X, it will come out of the budget for Y.
3-But let’s open this up to everyone. How many people want the players to get paid more, AND will pay more for their tickets? Just like in the real world, you need to have some skin in the game before your opinion means anything.
Teams don’t charge based on cost, they charge us what their sales department has determined is the highest rate fans will pay.
Adding a couple million a year per team to the budget is nothing to these clubs. Fans complain all day about the top players making too much. Teams wouldn’t be able to over spend as much if they devoted more money to the players coming through the minors.
But this is where all discussions lead. Everyone thinks someone else will pay, because “they have the money”. But the billions that Apple has on hand won’t generate $1 of savings towards my next phone.
I think harvest workers should get benefits. And if that results in a $0.10 increase in the price for tomato or a red pepper, I am glad to pay it. But I would find it inconsistent to suggest that the workers should get paid more, but not be willing to pay for it.
JoeBrady;
Next step is working on unionizing children to get more from their parents. (I think the government and public schools are heading that way.)
Many of those kids are going to be cash cows some day!
The salaries of all minor league players and coaches combined is less than 1 superstar MLB player.
MLB players would make $6.65 million on average if they were making 50?% of revenue for MLB.
Not one cent needs to be added to fan costs in order to pay minor league players a living wage.
afl forever;
I’ll tell you who it won’t be paying for that……
My family and everyone I know.
MLB.TV is nice. In my case I have the time and follow the sport watching games on a large computer monitor. It’s cheap entertainment and (believe it or not) exercises my mind.
There are 2 major league teams that are 2-4 hours away. I, and no one I know, has any desire to make that drive, and drop a nice chunk of money on what in the overall picture is a fairly meaningless game – the majority of the time being spent watching players hit foul balls. We can drive to amusement parks in the area that also have gourmet food courts; flashing, titillating displays going off; and loud music at times. The difference is that instead of watching other people do things, we can participate……and we can do what we want to do when we want to do it, be more comfortable…….all for a far lower cost.
MLB has to find more and more revenue streams as so many are feeding off the MLB monster. It’s now gotten to franchises building and leasing out real estate around it’s ballparks – housing, entertainment centers, etc. As with cable TV (which devoured everything in it’s path for 30 years), this will hit wall. At some point consumers will cut the cord to do what they want to do when they want to do it.
This should be fun. I am sure MLB is not going to take this lying down. But I hope they do unionize. MLB has taken advantage of the minor league player for far too long.
MLB has already eliminated many minor league teams in anticipation of the Minor leagues Unionizing. They knew this was coming.
I am surprised that it took this long.
Bold move cotton, let’s see if it pays off.
Effin’ A, Cotton, Effin’ A!
Minor League players need representation. That does not mean they are going to get mega salaries, but even modest improvements might be meaningful.
Unless I missed it, did the send out the cards to just affiliated team players or to Indy League team players too? If they included Indy League players, we will see a good number of teams fold because they are running on razor thin margins as it is..
Indy teams have no affiliation with MLB teams so no, they wouldn’t be a part of this.
I’d be optimistic, but you have the King of the Peter Principle in Tony Clark as the MLBPA head.
If they’re lucky, they may end up in chicken coops for housing and eating peanut butter and bologna sandwiches three times a day.
Tony Clark sucks.
Well, I think they should at least get two extra pieces of bread so can make peanut butter sandwiches AND bologna sandwiches instead of combining the two..
Only if it’s store brand white bread with no fiber.
That’s a deal. The bologna will be old enough to give the squirts and thus no fiber will be needed. See compromise IS possible.
Don’t make fun of Bologna. It is one of the healthiest meals I eat.
Right. Not everyone likes liverwurst.
But you do more than he does!
I learned from your mother, Paco.
How juvenile!
You started it. Go mow my lawn.
Late is preferably to never.
This move is better than the union’s previous stance of ignoring and marginalizing minor league players for their own benefit*.
*Except that it wasn’t really to their benefit. The union just works too hard for it’s top 10%.
By bringing minor leaguers into their tent, the MLBPA has essentially taken the threat of replacement players off the table.
Didn’t they fight hard for $700K minimum salary?
Not necessarily. There is always the possibility of minor leaguers crossing the picket lines if they feel they have no other recourse to the majors. Or veterans on their way out. Basically the same way as in 1995.
I know the replacement players from 1995 were never allowed to join the MLB players union, but do the ones that played in MLB afterwards still get a pension? Is it paid by the union or by MLB? Basically what I am asking is, what did those guys lose by not being allowed to join the union?
Losing their union membership would add to a long list of deterrents for “scabs” and make it exceedingly unlikely.
But that doesn’t answer my question. I looked it up though. The 1995 replacement players that later played in the big leagues still get pensions and still got representation at arbitration hearings. The only they lost out on was their cut of licensing deal by the MLBPA.
To me, a little bit of licensing money is not enough of a perk to worry about. I’d be a replacement player in a heartbeat if that is all that I lost.
Players are represented at arbitration hearings by their agents, not the MLBPA. They can ask for assistance from MLBPA, but they are not represented by them. Scabs that crossed the picket lines were not eligible for either pensions or merchandising money. Merchandising money is about $200-250k per player that is on the roster all season. The players get paid based on service time for the year. Its not an insubstantial amount of money. It is certainly more than anyone that says they would be a scab in a heartbeat makes in a year.
If they crossed a picket line they are not eligible for a pension or any merchandising money regardless of how many years they played in the majors.
The only player that went on to have a career long enough to have a pension if he had not crossed the picket line was that idiot on Intentional Talk, Kevin Millar.
I didn’t know that about Millar. One more reason to dislike him.
MLB is going to soon look like the NBA. They will have one, maybe two minor league affiliates and that’s it. Yes, minor leaguers deserve more, but they are not going to get it. At least not the ones that truly need it. They are just going to end up losing their jobs. The only minor leaguers that the big league union cares about are the top prospects, because they are the ones that will be paying union dues for years in the bigs. The guys that play for 5 years and max out at AA, the big leaguers don’t worry about. And before too long, the big league front offices will not even give them a chance.
MLB needs ALL the minor league players to develop the few that make the majors. Scrimmages with a handful of to prospects will not get them ready to play in MLB.
A union will make sure that no one loses their job and they get paid what they deserve.
Who pays for all of this?
The owners.
By which you mean…the fans. The owners aren’t going to pay fot it out of their own pockets. They will just raise prices for goods and services in order to pay for the wage increases.
It’s the same thing that happens at fast food restaurants when the minimum wage rises. Those owners aren’t suddenly spending more money, the consumers are.
This is economic nonsense. No provider of a good or service can raise their prices simply because they want to, or even if they feel they need to, unless their customers have no freedom of choice. Your example actually proves the point. It is completely not comparable.
Consumers of Baseball don’t have a choice. It is a monopoly.
You have a backwards understanding of economics. Demand, ie what the fans are willing to pay, is what drives prices. The owners can charge whatever they want, but if fans aren’t willing to pay it, the prices will drop. If the fans are willing to pay more, the prices will rise. The players salaries are only a small part of the equation.
If the minor league owners could pay their players almost nothing but had fans willing to fork over $100 per ticket and $15 a beer, guess what the price of tickets and beer will be?
They have a choice not to consume baseball. The other even more important economic reality: whatever pricing power baseball has doesn’t change because their expenses increase. They will always charge whatever their customers are prepared to pay. This is why a ballpark beer costs $18. It has nothing to do with them passing along any costs, and everything to do with the willingness of customers to pay that huge premium to drink beer at games.
Well you are arguing with me, a known bum, in the middle of a work day, so I can see your economics knowledge really did wonders for your career.
And I still disagree with your concept. And my examples proves that. The customers did not have a freedom of choice because the minimum wage went up for ALL restaurant workers, not just a single location. Every restaurant in town raised prices to pay for it. The consumer still had exactly the same number of choices, but each one of them was a higher price.
It might not work that way in an ivory tower economics classroom that just deals with hypothetical situations. But it works that way in the real world. People will pay higher prices for their usual comforts in life. If you like a Big Mac every day for lunch, you will pay more for it than a cheaper hamburger elsewhere. If you like watching baseball, you will pay more for it instead of going to watch a WNBA game that might be cheaper. At some point, there is a stopping point for individuals of course, but for the majority, they will just keep right on spending because that is what they do.
You got it !
@hiflew: “Well you are arguing with me, a known bum, in the middle of a work day,”
Have you heard of time zones and shifts that aren’t 8-5? I work 50 hours a week, buddy.
You are trying to argue against basic economics. There’s nothing ‘ivory tower’ about the concept that businesses charge what they think customers will pay. Your Big Mac example is lacking context because if they raised the price to $10 but there was a comparable burger down the street for half that, guess which one the vast majority of customers will buy? And your baseball:WNBA comparison makes no sense because they are different commodities.
These aren’t ‘classroom’ or ‘ivory tower’ concepts. They’re the real world. Again, if MiLB could get away with paying each player almost nothing, but had fans willing to pay $100 a ticket and $15 for beer, what do you think the price of tickets and beer would be?
Minor league owners don’t pay the players, MLB owners do. All the owners of minor league teams do is provide the venue where the teams play.
The people that make the most money and understand economics at the highest levels often have the most time to argue with admitted bums like you.
The league made billions of dollars in revenue last year, they can afford to pay minor leaguers more than minimum wage. The owners and MLB players should be fine sharing some of that $9 Billion pie with MiLB players.
I can get on board with that. if both the players and owners wanted to split $2M for the minors, that would be perfectly fair, even noble. That’s maybe .0002 of the players salaries. It should be easy. But let me know when the players make that offer. It’s always easier spending someone else’s money.
Revenue is irrelevant. Other than Atlanta, no team opens their books to see profit. Its all speculation. I do assume most teams are making a profit, but how much of the minor league costs are going to be shared by the big TV markets? NY and LA are not going to want to contribute to FL or CIN minor league costs. This could hurt competitive balance even more, forcing small markets to limit Major League Payroll even more.
Minor league players do not even make minimum wage. Depending on the level its between $4-5 per hour. That is why MLB had to pay 20k former and current players a $185 million settlement and agree to start housing single (not married) players and provide a meal during the season.
I’m no fan of rich owners but there’s something about having the weight of colluding agents and a union ganging up on an organization that doesn’t seem reasonable to me.
By “ganging up on,” do you mean collectively bargaining to get minor league players paid above the poverty line? And what examples do you have of colluding agents?
“Rob Manfred’s recent assertion that he ‘rejects” the notion “that minor league players are not paid a living wage.'”
Oh, come on! These guys play 132 games and have to stay in shape to do so. $5,000-$15,000 is not enough for half a year’s work plus needing to stay in shape the full year. Maybe further contraction in organized ball is necessary, though, so the true prospects can be paid better.
At the pay rates described in the article, MLB could pay all minor leaguers from all 30 teams for less than what Max Scherzer makes in a year. That’s 3,500-4,000 men including the rookie leagues.
He, Manfred, included the signing bonus $$ in overall income.
80% of the 4000 minor league players get a signing bonus of $10k or less and after paying taxes and agents, less than half goes to the player.
It would be about fking time
Do people realize how little money we are talking about? You could give every guy 10k more and it would cost each team about $1 million dollars a year. Add in slightly better benefits and say it costs owners a whopping $2 million/ year worst case per team.
Fair enough. Do you go to minor league games, and would you pay another $1-2 per ticket?
Are salary costs paid by each minor league team? That seems like something the major league teams should cover, the MLB team drafted the players and moves them around at will. Why would they have minor league teams pay players chosen by someone else?
Minor league player expenses should be covered by the MLB team.
Yeah, big league teams pay the minor league players’ salaries.
“I’d rather watch every last one of them starve to death in front of my eyes before I pay even one more nickel for a Savannah Bananas ticket!!!”
I think I can handle it.
You know the minor league team owners don’t pay the players, right? So you’re talking about two different streams of money here
Minor league teams will not be paying any of the increased costs. That is on the MLB team owners. All the minor league team owner does is provide the venue for the players and coaches paid by MLB to do their jobs in.
If the union wins, I can see Manfred reducing the affiliates down to three from the current four and limit the number of complex players. Players not included will only have independent ball which pays less than the affiliates do now. If this is truly going to help the players Independent teams will need to be included. The independent leagues has a relationship with MLB.
He will lose in court if he tries. Federal labor law prohibits that kind of thing. MLB just lost one lawsuit brought by minor league players, I seriously doubt they want to take on the MLBPA and NLRB in court.
Maybe if people were into college baseball the way they are into college football and college basketball, this whole thing would be a moot point. Then MLB could remain mute about it.
This is long overdue because they really screwed these guys over. They deserve to make a lot more money. I think the minimum salary should be at least $25k. Even if they had to pay payroll taxes, that’s still only $800,000/yr/team. I’m pretty sure that they can cut a little off what they pay their top players to break even. And, that’s a minimum. A lot of players got big signing bonuses, so those players wouldn’t cost anything more.
Furthermore, I think overall it will help MLB because there are a lot of teams that simply don’t give a hoot about their minor league teams and its evident in the lack of development. I think once they have to pay the players real salaries, you might see them starting to expect more bang for their buck.
It doesn’t generate that kind of income so why should they be paid like it does??
As mentioned in many of the above comments, the purpose of the minor leagues really is two-fold. First, it provides economic benefits to the communities in which they play. And also, as what someone called research and development for the big leagues. Without the need for R&D, most of the minor league teams wouldn’t exist because, as you alluded to, they aren’t financially viable on their own.
What really screws these players is the club control which restricts when they will become free agents, thereby restricting their earnings. I’d be on the side of MLB when it comes to club control if they were investing a fair amount into compensation (sunken costs rationale). But, they aren’t! Kerry Carpenter for the Tigers was working at Dick’s Sporting Goods not more than two years ago! And now, he looks like he might have a future with the Tigers. He’s not a bonus baby, so he’ll stay under club control for the next 3 or 4 years.
People don’t pay for things they don’t want simple as
” First, it provides economic benefits to the communities in which they play.”
TroyVan;
WRONG!
I live in an area with a minor league team. It not provides few, if any, economic benefits. It cost the city and taxpayers a lot of money to acquire and donate the land, build the park and maintain it. It provided some construction jobs for a year or so. The people working there are mostly interns, volunteers, and some minimum wage workers. On game nights some low wage workers (many don’t even get minimum wage) at bars and restaurants in the area get a few extra hours.
Mostly the team provides benefits for people in the area to see some baseball – something they also do going to high school, college, and travel team baseball. It’s a good way for young people to go out for a summer evening with their friends and walk around meeting other young people.
–
Here’s what’s not being discussed…….
MLB has record attendance and revenue. It’s entertainment. The fact is this – the additional percentage of revenue MLB gets is far behind other forms of entertainment – other then possibly movie theatres since so many people watch movies at home now on large screens. Consumers can watch MLB games on their large screens at home, but as I can tell by the comments here, most aren’t paying attention; know little about the sport; primarily appear to watch highlights and/or have the game going on in the background then only pay attention when the announcer screams once every 5-10 minutes that something big is happening.
The big increases in entertainment revenue is now coming from in-person attractions. As a relative in Miami told me 20 years ago…she and her husband grew up loving baseball – her in Chicago, him outside of NYC. When I asked if they took their 2 young boys to see the Marlins she said no. The first problem was the kids couldn’t sit still for 3 hours where most of the time there was little action. But primarily it was because they could drive over to Disney World in Orlando. They’d spend 8-12 hours there, have 2 meals, walk around to attractions and either view them or participate in them, meet people, and choose what they wanted to do when they wanted to do it. They were in control of their experience. And best yet – all that cost less money than attending a 3 hour Marlins game.
Yes, MLB sells more tickets and has higher ratings than ever. But are you aware of the population growth in this county as well as corresponding growth in expendable income?
Not sure what you said there. It seems like you are advocating for the MLB experience while criticizing it when trumpeting the benefits of Disney World. So, I’m confused.
But, I’m sure in Florida, where I presume you are from, the baseball market is oversaturated. Half of MLB has their spring training there, then complex leagues, and the minors.
Where I’m from in Michigan, the two high A teams I know of routinely play on front of 7,000 fans (Lansing and West Michigan). They absolutely provide economic benefit to the communities. In fact, before West Michigan built their stadium (with private funds), that area was pretty much swamp land. Now, it’s a fairly busy and modern shopping and entertainment area. So, things are probably a little different in the rest of the country.
Next, disposable income has not risen in this country lately. Inflation has eaten away at everyone’s disposable income. So, reconsider that assumption, too.
I’m not advocating anything. I’m stating what is.
I’m glad the area around your minor league parks rebuilt and attracted consumers. The area in my city (AA) had some new businesses come in around the park. Most failed, as the area wasn’t attractive 12 months a year. Building complexes with sports facilities for upscale consumers works in major cities. Not so much in the smaller markets or most minor league areas.
I’m quite aware of inflation and the problems it’s causing. I knew what was going to happen when the politicians in DC printed money in absurd amounts, bribed the public with $2k or so, gave unemployment benefits to people in Maryland and DC 50-70% more then in my area because it’s so expensive to live there, and created new guaranteed (i,e. never get laid-off no. matter how bad the economy) jobs at high pay (DC government jobs average around $110-115 k a year last I heard) with benefits that in private industry are only given to upper level personnel. Most of those jobs go to their family, relatives, and friends. It’s a “company town”. And because of the inflation they created they’ll be giving themselves steep pay increases in time.
Rant aside, yes disposable income in America is just beginning to shrink. We’ll how that affects pro sports.
My bottom line to all this is what it’s always been – young people around the world try to establish themselves in a profession. People like me had to work our way through college, then come out and take low-paying, odd hours, crummy jobs to build a resume and work our way up in our chosen profession. Using all income to pay for housing – often splitting costs and dwellings with others – is hardly unique. The fact that the minor leaguers are getting uniforms (I had to pay to dress for work, as well as buy manuals other necessities), bats, balls, gloves, and other items necessary to develop in their trade along with (and most importantly) professional instructors that help them to grow is something few people get (I often paid for additional college and technical seminars to keep up with my profession when I was working). Many collage graduates today have to take jobs as interns – also being paid a stipend while buying their own materials. That’s life…..it’s always been this way and it always will be this way. The union will help the players some. Mostly it’ll create good jobs for the union that will be paid for by the consumer.
Read. The. Article. MILB does generate incredible revenue and the MLB team is paying the minor league salaries and their revenue is over $12 billion this year and going up.
YES!!!!!!! It’s about time!
The MLBPA should have stepped up on the Covid shots, and forced Canada to give a pass, or drop Toronto from the majors, or forced them to play home games somewhere in America., The minors should have been organized a long time ago.
If you can pay ringworm 100’s of millions of dollars, then you have money to spend on the system itself. With the game heading to a half billion in contract’s plus, pay the bottom tier’s, you can do it baseball.
Yes, because the MLBPA has leverage over the governments of sovereign states…
Like when Montreal played 22 “home” games in Puerto Rico ? They had set a precedent before and the union should have protected American’s rights over Canada’s.
Yes MLB should have required all players minors and majors to get mandated covid shots or be suspended without pay period!
This ^^^
The players union bargained away minor leaguers rights before, haven’t they? Now they want them to unionize?
Most of us live under the poverty line. Just because you happen to be an untried minor league baseball player doesn’t make you so privileged or unique that you deserve more. If you are good enough, you will get the money. So play hard and earn that almighty dollar. While you “play”, the rest of us will work our butts off to support you whenever we can save up enough money to attend your games.
I did not know the money is so low in AAA! I was shocked! Time to join the Union. My only regret about my Union involvement, was the Unions to get too much into politics.
Unions get too much into politics?
When it comes to politics, corporations have massively more power and influence ($$$) than unions have. It isn’t even close.
This is LONG OVERDUE!
The vast majority of minor leaguers(with the exception of “bonus babies”)
are treated like slaves on the plantation.
Major League baseball has over 8B in yearly revenues.
Minor league baseball has less revenues but still a substantial amount of revenues.
It is a “no brainer” for minor leaguers to organize and get strong Union Representation!
The slaves on a plantation reference is so F-N lame. Nothing in pro sports compares to slavery. This is probably the most worn out phrase in the country. Are they beaten if they make an error? No. Are their families taken away because they don’t perform up to expectation? No. At least they get some compensastion for their work, unlike real slavery. Can they quit and get a real job somewhere else? Yes. Grow up and get real!
So Jerry, you are saying that working 70-80 hours per week for 5 months for $4-5/hr is not slave wages? That you would be willing to go do that?
Oh and that you are forced to work more than that during spring training for ZERO wages. Certainly you would be willing to do that in your job.
Stop being a putz and get real. The get off my lawn stuff gets old real fast.
There you are again, Pads with your insulting posts. My point is that when people choose to compare anything in modern day U.S.A. to slavery, they are way off base. Nothing like that exists in our country, especially in the sports world. How many people do you know who are actually slaves, by definition? Even the term “slave wages” is rather inappropriate in today’s world, not that I am always PC, myself. The term “slave” is normally used as a last ditch effort to make a point where their argument is weak at best because it still garners attention. To say minor leaguers are grossly underpaid should suffice.
I agree it isn’t fair if the players work for ZERO? wages in ST, though I’d guess they get some kind of compensation. I mean how do they pay rent or purchase food? However, they choose to participate because the rewards can place them beyond the riches of avarice for the rest of their lives. While we are supposed to have pity for these struggling young artists, I am curious if they ever consider paying retribution to those who helped get them to where they achieve success. They don’t become stars on their own, ya know and there are countless people to guide them along the way. Nobody makes it on sheer talent.
You are an abrasive person who actually does use the “get off my lawn stuff”. I still choose not to stoop to name calling.
If its insulting, then that says volumes about you. Facts shouldn’t be insulting. Answer the questions.
Answer the questions? Say please….
@JerryBird Ask Pads Fans about his other accounts outinleftfield, PLTuna and BaseballIsLife
You sound very ignorant to even make that type of comparison!
MLB has over $12 billion in annual revenue and due to new national and local TV deals that will go up to around $14 billion in 2023.
being that there’s a minimum wage, there should be a maximum wage. no one is worth $50,000 per at bat, or $3mil per start.
The fact we all pay for game tickets, regional sports network and cable subscriptions, log into sites that generate them ad money, and more means that players are worth that.
i contribute nothing. they contribute nothing to me, why should i contribute to them? i let the other fools.
The owners will make roughly $12.5 billion this year. Next year that will go up to close to $14 billion.
Players as a whole should be making roughly half of that. In every other major sport they are guaranteed to make that and there are minimum payrolls in each.
$6 billion in player wages divided by the 902 players that put on a uniform in the majors last season = about $6.65 million per player. They made just under $4.5 million on average. MLB players deserve raises, not cuts or limits.
@notnamed Hey, what a great idea! Limits on both the minimum and maximum MLB wage – but couple that with corresponding limits on the profit and capital-gains that MLB owners are allowed to accrue.
Then – the cost of attending big-league games and/or subscribing to big-league broadcast packages, could be cut in half – and America’s MLB pastime would become a so much more more affordable pastime, for so many more millions of Americans!
And since we’ve all agreed that this should be the new plan, if the interested parties would all just please sign right here_, here_, and here_ , the cost-cutting could begin immediately!
Happy days! Play ball!
75% rollback on salaries per player, then pay minor leaguers, after the fan benefit package goes into effect. fan benefits are reduced ticket prices 50%, team merchandise by at least 50% and concession prices by 75%. make it very affordable. owners can still make the same amount of profit.
The cold hard truth is that 90% of minor leaguers are there so the 10% who are real prospects have games to play.
That said, it wouldn’t have been hard for ownership to pay them during Spring Training, provide housing comparable to a dorm or off campus apartment, and give them decent food before and after games. Owners can fund that using couch change.
But they didn’t so now the players will unionize and it will cost them a lot more than being decent employers would have. And, yes, they’ll likely compensate by pushing harder for an international draft and/or further reducing the number of leagues.
Why are athletes given such value. If a ski resort hires people for the season, should they be required to pay a full years living wage? Is it unfair that the ski resorts employees have to find other sources of income the rest of the year? How about resort towns? Should the Northern National Parks be required to pay all their staff year round, even though few go to Denali in the Winter? It sucks that some jobs are seasonal. That’s just the way it is. Dairy Queen would only survive in the South if full year wages were required for seasonal work. Most of the low level minor leaguers are a hope and a prayer to the Big Leagues. They are paid accordingly.
Minor league players are not allowed to have other employment from February to August. If they play in AFL or Winter Leagues they cannot have outside employment during that time either. They work a 10-12 hour day during the season and they also have long travel hours. A ski resort has to comply with overtime and minimum wage rules. Minor league baseball does not because the players are paid by MLB.
Anyone against this has never played minor league ball.
Has anyone stopped to consider how much money many of these players make with their signing bonus? It’s not just people way at the top of the draft but also includes players who were not sure signs..
Also, has anyone stopped to consider just what minor league owners have to pay to run their clubs? Doesn’t part of the money they make from tickets go to MLB (or the MLB team that owns it).? Just recently, MLB laid down standards for teams at each level–parking, size of clubhouse space, etc..
The money is there to pay minor league players more than they are receiving; stop paying MLB players outrageous amounts of money, especially those who keep getting injured (Chris Sale comes to mind—since 2019, he has been paid more than $1 million and has won 11 games while pitching 195-1/3 games as a starter)..
I’ve been to major and minor league games in 35 states with multiple parks in many states. I like minor league ball…the old stadiums, rising stars, the friendliness you usually find from the fans, the silly/interesting things they put on for the fans. I’ve met players, coaches, managers, team owners, league presidents, gotten permission to photograph from the field during practice and from the photographers’ well during games. Sure is a lot more fun than emptying my wallet for good seats at an MLB game.
Have you stopped to consider that 80% of the 4000 minor league players got $10k or less for a signing bonus and that half of that was gone before they saw a penny?
Have you stopped to consider that to be a player at any level of professional baseball that you have to continue to work out year round even though you only get paid from April to August?
When I say workout, I am not talking about an hour at the gym every morning, I am talking about 4-5 hours a day just like they do during the season.
Here is a typical day for a minor league player.
Show up at the ballpark at 10 am. (based on 6:30 pm game time)
Workout for 90-120 minutes in the gym.
Have lunch provided by the team.
Pre-game meetings with position coaches.
Do on the field workouts with position coaches.
Then batting practice and fielding practice starting at 4:30.
Game starts at 6:30pm. Game ends around 10pm.
Post game meeting.
Shower and dress then go out for dinner around 11:00 or 11:30 pm.
12+ hour days, 6 days per week. 72 hours per week. NOT including travel time. For 5 months.
And earn $4800 (rookie and low A) to $15,400 (AAA) to do it. The average is $8100 per season.
Do the math.
Triple-A is 150 games, Double-A is 138 games, and High-A and Single-A are each 132 games. The average is a 23.5 week season. x 72 hours per week or 1692 hours worked. NOT including travel time that is compensated for in other lines of work. Divide $8100 average per season by 1692 hours worked.
Even if you are talking about AAA players that earn $15400 per season and work 2 more weeks (25 weeks/1836 hours worked not including travel time),
That = slave wages.
Plus, minor league players are NOT paid during spring training and fall or winter leagues.
Here is what the Chicago Tribune had to say about it 2 days ago.
“The players don’t get paid during various required periods of work like spring training, extended spring training, fall instructional league and the winter offseason when players are both contractually and practically required to perform work for their teams.” chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/ct-minor-league…
Minor league baseball is wildly profitable. Saavy investors do not lay down the $60-$90 million that has been spent for the last 5 minor league teams sold with a goal of losing money. They have looked at the books and know they are going to make money as long as they can have fans in the seats.
NONE of the money that the minor league owners makes from tickets, concessions, or parking goes to MLB. Its the opposite. MLB pays all the players and coaches, provides 1 meal a day for players, pays for maintenance of the field itself, and in 2023 will start housing non-married players.
All 3600 players in the minor leagues that are not on a major league 40 man roster make the equivalent of ONE average major league salary. That middle reliever on your favorite team, he makes an annual salary that is the combined income of every minor league player that is not on the 40 man roster.
No reduction in major league player salaries is necessary to pay minor league players a living wage. Not one cent.
Tony Clark can barely handle representing one league, let alone two
About freaking time.
Can you all do me a huge favor and not type the words “slave wages” ever again? Please.
Thank you for your time.