Joey Votto’s season is over, as the longtime Reds first baseman told reporters (including Bobby Nightengale of the Cincinnati Enquirer) that he will undergo surgery on Friday to fix a torn rotator cuff.
As Votto told reporters (including reps from Bally Sports), that his shoulder has actually been bothering him since 2015, though it has only become “painful to the point where it’s…difficult to lift, hurts to sleep” over the last few months. “The doctor informed me that with these sort of injuries at some point you hit a breaking point, and you’re not able to manage it quite as well,” Votto said, and that proverbial breaking point only occurred this season. The procedure has roughly a six-month rehab time, so Votto should be ready for around the start of the Reds’ Spring Training camp.
Votto’s 16th season will finish with 91 games played, as beyond this rotator cuff problem, he also missed over two weeks on the COVID-19 list in May. The veteran posted a .205/.319/.370 slash line and hit 11 home runs over 376 plate appearances — he hit well in his first few weeks after returning from the COVID list but otherwise, the 2022 season has been a struggle.
While the number of games is certainly a factor, Votto’s 92 wRC+ is the worst of his career, and it represents the second time in four seasons that Votto’s offensive production has fallen beneath the league-average 100 wRC+ threshold. Votto did hit pretty well in 2020, yet there were still whispers that his best days were behind him….before Votto exploded with another excellent season in 2021. The first baseman slugged 36 homers (matching the second-highest total of his career) last year while hitting .266/.375/.563 in 533 PA.
It’s safe to say that Votto’s increasingly problematic rotator cuff injury was the source of his 2022 dropoff, as the lesser version of his shoulder soreness didn’t stop from posting MVP-caliber numbers on multiple occasions since 2015. With the injury now finally addressed, it is possible that Votto might have one more big performance in store for 2023. That said, Votto will also be 39 years old next season, and even with a fixed rotator cuff, he might not be immune to aging curve that usually limits players outside of their prime years.
The return from surgery also adds another wrinkle to what might be Votto’s farewell season altogether. 2023 is the final guaranteed season of the 10-year, $225MM extension Votto signed back in April 2012, though Cincinnati has a $20MM club option (with a $7MM buyout) for 2024. If Votto did return to his 2021 form, that could be enough for the Reds to make the $13MM decision to bring back the longtime face of the franchise, even if the Reds have been more focused on cutting payroll in the last two seasons.
Votto’s own feelings will naturally also be a factor, as he has intimated in the past that he would retire if he was no longer getting enjoyment out of playing the game. It remains to be seen how Votto will approach this eventual decision, as he will surely weigh such factors as his health, how close the Reds might be to contending, and his 2023 performance as well as the personal satisfaction he still derives from baseball. Whenever he does decide to hang up the glove, Votto will surely get a lot of consideration from Hall Of Fame voters, and a ticket to Cooperstown could well be in Votto’s longer-term future.
get ready for next season!
As a ‘veteran’ of two rotator cuff surgeries myself, I know exactly where he is at. When you can’t lift your shoulder to put on a tee shirt without extraordinary pain, it’s time to see the doctor. Hopefully he doesn’t require a lot of anchors to reattach his muscle to the bone. My left shoulder required 10 anchors and that took nearly a full year to rehab and recover from (ended my college baseball career too as a LH pitcher). My right shoulder only required 2 anchors and that one took about 4-6 months to recover from. The good news is that the rotator cuff repair doesn’t impact the player’s swing too much; the main impact is on throwing motion. So if his surgery is not too complex, 6 months seems like a reasonable recovery time for him, as he’ll have the best medical and PT resources available to him. He may end up in a DH role for the first couple of months so he can get his throwing motion back, but I really hope he recovers fully and finishes his Reds career with a couple of great seasons. He’s an iconic Reds player…all the best to him!
Nice! Sorry to hear how your BB career ended!
My bb career ended playing tee ball when I kept hitting the tee and throwing the ball at other kids.
I wish I was on his level
sad to see him dip from .3015 BA to .2971 this year. very doubtful he’ll end his career above .300.
Sucks for him
Heck, playing for the Reds this season can’t be easy. I’d say it will be a nice break and he’s guaranteed two more seasons. Seems like he’s at the end of his career based on his performance this season.
This season?
Exactly … Votto was a great player , yet also a head case. Not to discredit his injury but his skills have diminished significantly… which is to be expected. Most of Vottos career his mind has gotten in the way it seems. All this tinkering at the plate … from my point of view he just seems to over think things. I like the guy but as great as he was I feel like his mind games left a lot on the table. Borderline hall of fame but if I had to vote I’d say no. I feel like if it’s been bothering him for 5 years why not get it fixed 5 years ago. Because it’s not a contract year ?
After this 2022 season is completed he only has one more guaranteed season. At the end of the 2023 year the Reds have an option on him for 7 million to get out of the contract. It’s fully expected that’s what the ballclub will do so in essence the Reds are still on the hook for at least 32 million and that will be the end of that. Recently, he stated he would like to play two more years, but it’s a certainty those years will not be for the 25 million per year he’s getting now.
Joey is a great dude and still a good ball player. Hope for a speedy recovery.
He’s still a good player?
Is Joey votto a hall of famer? Thoughts?
Nope, Todd Helton isnt close to getting in yet and his numbers are better across the board
That’s because Helton played in COL.
Or it could be because Helton is a better player that just happened to play in Colorado.
I mean it is not like Votto has been playing in a pitcher’s park there in Cincinnati.
Hiflew with more awful takes.
Helton has a career 132 wRC+/133 ops+ and 54.9 fWAR/61.8 bwar
Votta has a career 146 wRC+/ 145 ops+ and 58.3 fWAR/ 64.5 bwar
But yes, clearly Helton is just a better player. I actually really like Todd Helton, but he’s not a better player than Votto. He had a higher peak, I suppose.
Numbers that close—you could go either way. But Votto is an easy HOF’er for me. He’ll wait a few years but he was easily a HOF bat.
I’m for Helton making it also.
Helton will get in. He is steadily picking up votes each year.
They are both gonna get in. Votto had a great prime with an MVP award.
No.
Agree. No. Too many valleys among the peaks.
I think he’s going to be getting in but it will take a few seasons. The sabermetrics crowd will vote him in for sure but he may have to wait for some of the old guard to retire because his counting stats are more good than great.. As a cards fan that’s been watching him from afar for years he should definitely be in.
I agree 100%
I don’t see the point in making a guy wait to get in. For me, you either belong in the Hall or you don’t. If I don’t vote for you in your first year of eligibility I’m not changing my mind unless you show up to my kid’s birthday party or something like that.
Based on his numbers, yes. If he’d played for better teams Votto probably gets in easily.
Yes
Votto will fall short of 2500 Hits, maybe gets to 350 HR’s. Votto does have more All Star selections and an MVP over Helton. I think both are a wash but probably get in because they want modern players and hell, Harold Baines got in…
Harold Baines had 2866 hits. It’s not like he was some bum that just happened upon the stadium one day. He gets way too little respect.
So Votto will probably get in but Fred McGriff doesn’t. I no longer recognize the Hall of Fame as the Hall of Fame as long as Fred McGriff is not in. There’s no scandal around him, he was good teammate by all accounts at all his stops. so why is he not in the Hall of Fame with almost 500 home runs? is it because he played for so many different teams? so you’re going to hold it against the guy that he was so good for so long for so many different teams that doesn’t make him good enough to be a hall of famer? give me a break.
Darn great question.
You make a lot of sense!
McGriff should get in this coming year via the committee. Though, they did just change their rules making it even harder.
IOW, the HOF is a crock. For example, Pete Rose is not in the HOF because he gambled, but now every ballpark in the game has huge gambling advertisements on the scoreboard and every broadcast features endless gambling ads. MLB reaps gambling income but punishes Pete Rose for gambling. A bunch of hypocrites, and the subjective nature of the voting (excuse me, popularity contest, or fan club for guys who play in New York or Los Angeles) is a fraud.
Probably not. Unless selection would/could be based solely on career OBP. What a stud! Get well Joey.
Career OPS over .900 gets in…
Yes. 10+ years and lifetime .300 hitter probably does it (don’t tell me average doesn’t matter…in many ways it does.)
If Baines is in? The bar is low. Votto is in for sure.
Avg doesn’t matter and hasn’t got anyone intelligent since the very start of Votto’s career.
He is, his stay totals and his OBP will get him in.
Yes. Because you can’t talk about best players of 2010s without talking about Votto.
Votto is an interesting case. He’s one of those guys who has folklore around him. Like 6,829th MLB plate appearances before his first pop up to first base. In his prime, only pulling the ball foul *once* over the course of several seasons (and he remembered the exact pitch). His bat control was unreal.
He was a masterful hitter. He’s won an MVP (2010) and a Gold Glove (2011). I think one thing that will benefit Votto is that’s he’s Canadian. I think there will be parallels to Larry Walker (who as we know if a HOFer). His numbers aren’t as good as Walkers, but parallels will be made.
My guess is that his numbers, his unbelievable plate discipline (OBP), and the aforementioned folklore may eventually get him in.
He’s definitely one of the best players of the 201X decade.
I imagine being canadian will have ~0% to do with him getting in. Votto doesn’t put up the baseball card stats, but he was a great hitter. I always really liked his game and hope he gets in. I feel like votto is not the type of person that would care either way though.
I mention Canadian because Larry Walker is Canadian. When he was considered for induction, I swear that’s the first thing that came out of every pundit’s mouth. I think the parallels will be drawn between these two for sure.
He woln’t get in, but he should.
Votto is a borderline Hall of Famer but I think he’ll fall short of getting in. If he had gotten to 400 HRs or 2,500 hits then his case for the Hall would improve significantly. He has no chance to reach either of those milestones so I think he won’t get the votes he’ll need to get in. With that said, he’s had an excellent career and is one of the true good guys in the game. He should be very proud of his accomplishments, including the money he’s earned over his career.
Something funky is going on with the MLBTR website. If I post a response, it’s replicating that response to anyone who has commented on the original post, so my post is showing up 5-6 times. Hopefully it will correct itself once the 5 minute edit time has elapsed but if it does not, I apologize for the repetitive posts. It’s not anything I’m doing from my end.
@mantooth it’s a glitch in there new software, i’ve seen a few of my posts being doubled up, give some time i can see these issues being ironed out before to long.
Yes, Joey Votto is a Hall of Famer.
It’s questionable as far as on field success but almost guaranteed once you consider what he’s done for Canadian popularity of the sport.
During his prime he was a perennial MVP candidate and it seemed to be a no-brainer. These days he’s less effective, especially with the bat, but has an enviable work ethic and attitude.
There have been no controversies surrounding him and he was the center piece of a Reds team that was almost good several times throughout his career.
I guess you could say:
Tangibles, maybe
Intangibles, yes
Votto is easily getting into the HOF.
Hang them up and head to HOF
He’s definitely not getting in if he hung them up today! He will definitely get in if he plays couple years though!
He’ll retire.
Yeah, after 2023.
Or maybe DH instead…
Probably as good a time as any to remind people that he has a full NTC which he has stated publicly every chance he’s gotten that he’s not waiving.
And no. It’s not DiFfErEnT tHiS tImE !
Mr Votto could have been a mega star if he played anywhere other than Cincinnati. Baseball really needs to think about pulling every team out of the Midwest with the exception of the Chicago Cubs. The Midwest literally contributes nothing to the United States. Maybe corn, but corn isn’t a good enough reason to scatter baseball teams in the central part of the country.
Being a little sarcastic! How are the teams in Florida and Oakland doing for attendance? Where do you live? We all live in the USA. Some of us live a long way from MLB teams and still drive to see them> Enough said!
Yeah St Louis doesn’t draw a crowd nor the SouthSide. Nothing like those southern teams (Texas,Miami,Tampa,Arizona). Or those northwestern teams (Colorado, Seattle, Oakland)
Colorado draws
Touche…point still stands
Which is why it’s sad that they haven’t been able to put good teams together very often. The fans are quite faithful to their Rockies, so I hope things improve there soon.
St. Louis: Best baseball town in America.
I don’t have time to get into this with you but if you’re that adamant about moving baseball teams, I propose just selling off entire states. There is no need all 50. China would probably buy Kansas, Iowa, Missouri and turn them into great manufacturing territories. Mexico already owns Texas. I’m sure Canada wouldn’t mind creeping down to Minnesota and the Dakotas.
Jimmy Forum 2024
Oh yeah. Take three of the biggest food producing states and turn them into areas for manufacturing cheap junk you get at Wal Mart. That’ll make the human race more successful.
Oh yeah, like Americans need more food.
Lol so a girl from the Midwest rejected you at some point? There are other fish in the sea bud.
Everyone knows girls from the Midwest don’t reject anything. They learn that from their mothers
Are you eleven years old?
There’s more in the Midwest than you think. There’s corn, soybeans, Idaho potatoes…just to name a few. If you want to clear out the Midwest, the Cubs have to go too…no favoritism.
I don’t think you understand how detrimental it would be to MLB and society in general if anything were to ever happen to the Chicago Cubs. They’re basically the Yankees of the National League.
@jimmy if your going to troll get your facts straight the only teams that can be compared to nyy in number of chips (no only) would be the cards (with the 2nd most in bb) sf and lad. if we’re going with midwest teams only stl still wins with 11 to the cubs 3. jimmy maybe cutting the cord and getting out of your parents basement and experience the outside world you’ll find it’s not like what the net portrays. i’ve been all over the us and in many bar’s having good bb convo’s with guys who liked teams i disliked, but i can tell you first hand midwest teams love there teams just like the coasts. the only difference is the midwest is a hard working “blue collar” part of the us and we expect our teams and ownership to be as hardworking as we are and put a product on the field worth our hard earned dollars.
mmmmmm…I’m thinking the Braves are the Yankees of the NL….
You’re obviously using hyperbole to troll, but let follow your premise. No teams in the Midwest, so no Reds, Indians, Tigers, White Sox, Brewers Twins, Cards, and Royals. That’s 8 teams you’d need new cities for, but really Miami, Tampa, and the A’s are weak draws, so let’s make that 11 teams needing new homes. What 11 cities do you have in mind to move these teams to?
Really what baseball needs is an even playing field, like Football has created. The larger markets will always have more eyeballs, but the completion is much better in football. Also if you look at a list of the most recognizable athletes, you wont find a baseball player in the top 100.
Salary cap, like football. That’ll do the trick.
Candidate for dumbest post I might have ever seen on this site.
This could be an interesting situation. Are the Reds going to bring him back next season or do both sides come together and agree on a buyout number?
At this point, he’s only taking at bats away from younger players that could help the Reds in the future. If he wants to keep playing, he will have plenty of suitors for a DH role.
He’ll be back.
The “buyout” is $32 million at the end of the season. That’s guaranteed. Why would he accept less …or the team offer more?
They could stretch his buyout over a few seasons, which has happened many times before. The Reds could pay the full 32 million as well, they clearly aren’t going to be competitive in the next 2 seasons.
More than likely they will keep him and do the whole farewell tour next season.
There is no younger player ready to take over 1B, so no he isn’t taking away at bats from them.
If he’s the least bit productive next season and wants to play in 2024 then the Reds will buy him out and resign him for what will amount too a few million $ savings.
He has a guaranteed contract next season (and a team option for 2024)…of course he’ll be back next season.
In most cases I would agree, however, the way the Reds have been ran recently has been very puzzling. Their last rebuild around Winker, Senzel, Trammell was essentially a failed attempt.
They went out and did some trades and spent some money and that failed as well. Now they’re back to rebuilding and there’s no end in sight.
Votto is a class act and deserves better. The Reds have shown very little commitment to building around him in the last decade.
The reds just didn’t continue the process. They sold off solid prospects for ST assets right in the middle. Downs and gray quickly rose up to T100 status w LA.
It was COVID year that wrecked the last rebuild.
I agree with your assessment, but why? Why did they do that and then turn around and tear it all down again? I can understand why it would frustrate Reds fans.
That played a factor but why did they not continue to pursue a better roster? The Reds have a loyal fan base. They have the resources. They’re now in a similar position as the Tigers. It looks bad for the foreseeable future.
There goes hoss
I hope the surgery goes well. I view him like Joe Mauer at the end of his career. A lot of money for a singles hitter, playing first base for way too much money. Retire with your dignity and reputation. Also, in the Hall of Very good like Ryan Braun, not HOF!
No one should be compared to Ryan Fraud.
Only the numbers, not with his character! Good Point!
Isn’t there a pretty big asterisk next to those Ryan Braun numbers?
Get healthy and prepare for next season’s farewell tour because there is zero chance the Reds pick up a $20 million dollar option on a 40 year old even with the DH
Someone once said to me that MLB should have a “Hall of the Very Good” for players not quite qualified for the Hall of Fame. Votto would be in the Hall of the Very Good.
Kind of like the wall of significance at Miller Park in Milwaukee!
It’s been the hall of very good since 1955.
Joey has always been a great player and great ambassador for baseball! When he does retire he will be missed!
No point continuing. CIN isn’t planning to compete anytime soon so take your time to heal up and get better. Good career. He’s kind of on the line of HOF. I don’t think so but wouldn’t be surprised if he does get in.
TikTok Joey Era Ends at 4-0
Talk about stealing money. He’s got nothing left in the tank. Too bad the Reds owe him over $30 million.
The Reds are still in the black on that contract, if you go by Fangraphs value calculator. Every team should be so lucky that a long-term contract works out so well.
He’s contributed much more than Miguel Cabrera did now look what’s happening with Mike Trout.
I wonder if he’ll become a hitting coach..
“Don’t swing at the bad pitches”
“It’s not that easy!”
“Yes. It is.”
Votto would likely make a great hitting coach. He apparently helped Matt carpenter in the off season. However how many players have you seen of vottos caliber and more importantly earnings become coaches or managers.
Votto will play one more year most likely maybe more if his pride will allow him to accept far less money. His counting stats outside of obp and walks will be lacking but I think he can get at least to on the cusp of hall election. Very minimum he gets his number retired by the reds.
Votto has a career .926 OPS. How many of those hitters over history, failed to make the HoF? I’m thinking none, all were probably first ballot.
Greatest Reds 1B: Tony Perez or Joey Votto?
Ted Kluszewski
As dumb as anything reds do- paying votto that stupid amount of money is why they have been in 2 rebuilds in a decade. Not paying stupid amounts of money to players out of their prime is why TB never goes into full rebuild mold.
Reds could have kept Castillo Mahle and Gray if they weren’t throwing away 25 mil a season on votto. Oh yeah, and you wouldn’t have a guy batting 200 in the heart of your lineup.
Yet there’s not one beat writer who follows reds that would admit it. They complain about not castellanos and pretend like reds, who have the smallest market in baseball, need to spend like they are the padres. Em dudes are as dumb as reds FO !
There’s a perfect business model to follow in Tampa. Plus reds have the farm to do it. Get it together reds FO ! And maybe one day reds fans will actually admit they are fans of reds, go to games, and buy merch again.