Aug. 19: Cotillo tweets that the strain appears to be mild, though Paxton will undergo an MRI to confirm. He’s shut down from throwing for the time being.
Aug. 18: Red Sox lefty James Paxton began a rehab assignment today but left after facing just two batters. This was initially reported to be lat tightness by Chris Cotillo of MassLive, with manager Alex Cora later telling Pete Abraham of The Boston Globe that Paxton has a lat strain.
Cotillo adds that Paxton is seeing a doctor tomorrow to determine the severity of the issue, but there’s no question this is a significant setback for the hurler. Today was his first attempt to pitch in an organized game since undergoing Tommy John surgery in April of last year. He was still going to need some time to ramp up for a starter’s workload and will now have to push that further down the road. Even a mild lat strain usually requires a recovery period of 2-3 weeks, which means the southpaw will likely be sidelined until some time in September even in a best case scenario.
It’s another disappointing development for Paxton, one of many in recent years, following on the heels of an excellent four-year stretch of effectiveness. From 2016 to 2019, he threw at least 121 innings in each season, keeping his ERA under 4.00 in each campaign as well. He had a 22.9% strikeout rate in 2016 but got it up near 30% for the latter three years of that stretch.
Unfortunately, injuries limited him to just five starts in 2020 and then just a single outing in 2021 before landing on the injured list. Despite two essentially lost seasons, the Red Sox took a chance on him this past winter, hoping he could recover his previous form once he returned to health. The contract reflected his uncertain status, with Paxton receiving a $6MM salary here in 2022 while rehabbing. At the end of the year, Boston will have to decide whether or not to trigger two $13MM club options for 2023 and 2024, effectively a two-year, $26MM deal. Should they decline, Paxton will then get to decide on a $4MM player option for next season.
If Paxton had come through this rehab looking like the solid mid-rotation arm he had been previously, there would have been good reason for the Red Sox to consider triggering their option, especially with Nathan Eovaldi, Rich Hill and Michael Wacha slated to reach free agency this fall. There’s also the uncertainty surrounding Chris Sale, who has thrown less than 50 total innings over the past three seasons due to his own injury concerns. However, the longer Paxton remains out of action, the more the needle will move towards the club declining their end of the deal. As for Paxton’s side of things, that will also surely depend upon the severity of his injury and whether he thinks he can top $4MM in the open market this offseason.
In the short-term, the Red Sox surely would have loved for Paxton to come back and help them with the stretch drive here in 2022, but that’s looking increasingly unlikely with today’s setback. Boston is currently four games behind Toronto and Tampa Bay for the final Wild Card spot in the American League, with three other clubs in between them.
Money well spent.
Big man. Left arm throw ball. Get paid. Suckers are born every season.
I think the decision for Boston comes down to either picking up these options on Paxton or re-signing Michael Wacha to a 2 year deal. Both come with injury concerns but Paxton has the bigger upside of the two when healthy. The Sox should be able to piece together two starters out of their younger options (Kutter Crawford, Bello, Winckowski, Mata, Murphy and Walter). Then they have Pivetta as a decent #3 or #4 starter, Sale as their ‘ace’ (big health concerns of course) and either Wacha or Paxton to fill out the rotation. You can’t have enough pitching, especially if you are counting on Sale and Paxton so I guess they could pick up the Paxton options AND re-sign Wacha, but I don’t see them trying to re-sign Eovaldi at this point in his career.
The Sox bullpen should be pretty decent next season if they re-sign Schreiber. They would have Whitlock, Houck, Schreiber and hopefully a revitalized Matt Barnes for the back end of the pen. Josh Taylor will be back next season and rookie Frank German should easily make the team (he should be called up in September). Then they’ll need to find 2 more arms to round it out. Brasier could be one of them and another one of their youngsters could be their 8th man if they choose to go the cheap route. Boston should sign another established, dominant bullpen arm as a free agent. That would round out their bullpen nicely.
With all that said, Boston has a lot of work to do this offseason if they hope to field a competitive team in 2023. Most of their best minor leaguers won’t be ready until 2025 so unless Boston does some serious spending or makes some significant trades this offseason, 2023 and possibly 2024 could be disastrous seasons for them.
How does Paxton even have bigger upside. Dude has one sub 3.5 era season in which he pitched more than 15 starts. Never hit 30 starts, and has 6 games since the start of 2020. Not saying Wacha is anything crazy but you gotta take him every time over Paxton at this point.
Paxton’s career ERA is 3.59 which is pretty solid. He’s had multiple seasons with an ERA below 3.50 (3 to be exact) but you’re right that 2 of them he started less than 15 games. One was his rookie season. He’s really only had one ‘terrible’ season with an ERA over 6 but that was injury related. So I believe if his TJS was successful, he can easily get back to an ERA of 3.50 or lower. The real question is can he stay healthy for a full season?
I like Wacha too but is his recent resurgence real? He really struggled the past 3-4 seasons with the exception of his 2nd half with Tampa last year and his performance with Boston this season. Hopefully, he turned a corner and figured things out. I’d like to see both of them re-signed next season but I’m not sure if the Sox would do that. They seem dead set of lowering payroll and bringing up their youngsters.
Sox will not in my view open next year with two unproven starters. that’s a recipe for eila surprise but more likely another bottom of the division finish. I see big money put into the pitching in the off season. Wacha will likely be back. Sale? consider him done until he proves otherwise. I don’t think he’s done but he can’t be depended on either. Anticipating big trades even if it includes minor league talent. Only untouchable to me is Mayer. I don’t see Casas traded but if a big time arm becomes available, he’s the main chip.
May have been mechanical. Also in Tampa he ditched the Cutter and developed a Sinker. He really actually does have 4 pitches with the Fastball/Changeup/Curveball/Slider which has helped him induce way more ground balls than before. Give the Rays credit because they turned him in to a totally different Pitcher last August from where he had been the past few years before and give Wacha credit for carrying that over to Boston
Sox need to keep Wacha and can probably bring Hill back relatively inexpensively. I would rather he work out a new deal with Paxton over paying another $10 million for what might be virtually nothing.
The biggest needs will come in the lineup. I kind of would like to see Pham comeback but not at the expense of adding a legitimate slugger, same with JD (though i could see him accepting the QO if they extend him one). Obviously Bogaerts should be a priority. I do think you are spot on about the bullpen
I think the team will in the off season emphasize defense and pitching. The better the gloves, the less pitches thrown. Hitting has not been consistent but they can get bats afterwards.
JD Martinez is all but gone.
ya that’s not how Boston should be spending their money..
that’s how small organizations think.. not teams that have 12 mil to throw at a non-factor
Who got 12 mil?
No thank you on Brasier.
Who would have thought that Bloom’s pitching staff made up of ifs and buts wouldn’t pan out well
Who were all the ‘ifs’? Paxton and Hill. Bloom signed both for 11 Million combined.
Are you proud of the 104 innings we got out of Dombrowski’s sigings (Eovoldi and Sale). Those two cost 47 Million this year.
Can’t believe the narrow vision.
You have Wacha, who was terrible for three years prior to this one. You have to consider him an “if.” Pivetta’s almost in the same boat. So-so year last year and terrible before that. He was a big “if.” We all know about Paxton’s health issues. So there’s another “if.” Rich Hill threw more innings last year than has since 2007. We all know about his durability. So I’d throw an “if” his way too. Eovaldi always had trouble with giving up homers but last year he got lucky (or magically developed a skill he instantly lost this year, whatever your beliefs). So you had to wonder about a repeat performance. And of course, that didn’t happen. So have another “if.” Then there’s the slasher of uniforms. And we all know about him. Needless to say, the rotation didn’t work out.
Now it’s great that they signed two pitchers on the cheap but if all that nets the Red Sox is a last place finish and no prospects was it a meaningful move?
Bloom had nothing to do with Eovoldi being on the team. Or Sale for that matter. Thats 37 million dead money sunk into the rotation. He only added 16 million in payroll to add Wacha, Hill and Paxton. Even with Paxton contributing zero, those three have produced far more, for far less.
If Dombrowski never existed. Red Sox would have Wacha, Pivetta, Hill, Michael Kopech and Jalen Beeks for Starting Pitchers. And another 37 million to spend on the more Starters. That would be an impressive rotation.
I know DD won a championship, but he really left garbage for the next guy. He put all his eggs in one basket. It worked out, and Sox won a championship. I just wonder how good they could’ve been with a long-term gameplan.
I get Sale, but if Bloom somehow didn’t think Eovaldi wouldn’t be effective why didn’t he trade him? That’s a contract he could have moved if he chose to.
I don’t understand your thoughts on production. Paxton, Wacha, and Hill have combined for 2.1 fWAR, or one average pitcher. At a cost of $7M per WAR in free agency on average Bloom broke even. He added three pitchers that aren’t any good/reliable/healthy for cheap and now their in the cellar of the AL East and they couldn’t even flip any at the deadline for prospects. Why is it a victory? If it worked then I’d get it, but in terms of both on-field success or building for the future how does this help the Red Sox? What Bloom is doing reminds me of goes on with the Angels rotations. No, that’s too mean. I take it back.
But also, when we talk money the big elephant in the room is Trevor Story. The Red Sox found $23M a year to give an average SS and then they moved him to 2B. It’s kind of nuts. I think we agree the rotation is in where money needed to be spent. Anyways, sorry for the rant. Cheers.
-I like the way you just breezed over the sunk 30 million huge black eye that is Sale, and went with the small bruise that is Eovaldi. But okay.
-“why didn’t they trade him, thats a contract he couldve moved” When after last season? That would be your only chance. 2019 and 2020 FIPs of 5.90 and 3.87. No one’s going to pay 17M a season for that. He probably thought one more season at 17M, might as well hope he repeats 2021. He didn’t. Image the Bloom haters if he did trade him last offseason. You thought the crying was bad for Renfroe.
-“7M for War” Do you think its 2017 still? Thats an old number. Currently its 8.5M. blogs.fangraphs.com/what-are-teams-paying-per-war-…
-I don’t think Red Sox could attract quality FA starting pitchers last offseason. — For 1, they don’t want to pitch at Fenway, and 2, their defense was horrendous last year, scaring pitchers away. Thats why they went with a defensive minded Trevor Story instead.
-“Victory” Who said that? Bloom is fielding what he can until he can build up the farm and get the payroll down. Fans would freakout if the Red Sox announced they’re going on a 4-5 year rebuild. Good luck selling tickets during those season. But, its really obvious thats what they doing. If anything the biggest problem was last season’s fluke run. It set them back a year. With 100M coming off the books this offseason, and several prospects coming, I expect things to be good by 2024. But, they’ll remain strong for years to come after that.
——————————
The Red Sox were in dire shape when ‘All or Nothing Dombrowski’ left. over the threshold, worst farm system in the majors, and they needed to sell off their best player to reset the cap. Its awesome that they won a championship. But, DD completely drained the system to do it. There are new rules in place, you can’t just throw money at the problem to fix it. The penalties are too severe. Yankee management understands that, they’ve been building the farm system for years and theyre avoiding Cap Penalties. Just wish the Red Sox fans could understand thats what the Red Sox are doing.
Bloom supposedly thinks himself to be a better judge of talent and a GM
How much did Bloom spend in 2022 salary for hill paxton robles diekman strahm it’s 22 million in luxury tax salary or 18 million if paxton doesn’t throw a pitch this year looks like what youre starving for is knowledge.
It’s not that deep, my dude
Pivetta is a big “if” too when you consider he’s in the #2 spot. He’s right, the whole rotation is “if” but they weren’t terrible. Our bullpen is bad and our offense has vastly underperformed and everyone overlooks that fact.
Pivetta was already covered by Mule. Again, how do you build a better Rotation, while not depleting the farm, and already have 37M sunk in Sale and Eovoldi? The rotation cost around 55M as is, did you expect them to drop another 50M into rotation? Thats only 5 positions of a 24 man roster, and youre going to spend 40 to 50% on just those 5 guys?
I never expected anything, only acknowledged that Pivetta I’d serviceable but in the role of a #2 pitcher when he’s clearly a #4 or #5.
I was a bit disappointed when the Yankees let him go (even though he was a very frustrating pitcher to watch), but it seems this guy is never going to get “right” again.
Never say never. You’re wrong if he does
No surprise here. Paxton always seems to have an injury
I don’t think it was as big of a deal as people were making it out to be. The deal wasn’t about this year, anything this year is a bonus. I suspect the options are triggered and they have him for opening day next year.
You think he makes it to next spring without another injury coming up?
He won’t make it out of September without another injury.
Not a chance. If it gets close he’ll throw himself down the stairs.
I think he will be gone at the end of the season
Paxton pitches so little, the picture for the article isn’t even him playing lol
Comment of the day.
Looks like he was moonlighting as an extra for Top Gun
he’s done
Shocker!
That eagle messed him up more than I realized.
Hey at least he got paid millions during the pandemic to be safe and comfortable at home. God does exist.
I thought this guy was dead.
Dude. You gotta pack in it, big dawg. We all love you Big Mape but I think it’s coming close to the end.
Smoke some big mape for the homies
Same old Paxton Yankee fans remember well….can’t exit the shower without injuring himself!
More like Little Twig!
Paxton wasn’t hurt that often in Seattle. It was when he went to NY he started to get hurt. You guys need to ease up on the pitchers they all seem to get hurt heading East.
Is Matt Young available? He might be a better choice. At this point spaceman probably has a better chance of returning. Maybe they should bring back I didn’t pack a coat Garret Richards. Last years sox caught lightning in a bottle. If Xander goes they will be down to Devers as the only viable cornerstone. They will be looking up at the Orioles.
Everyone might be looking up at the Orioles soon. If Elias goes hard into free agency for some pitching that team will be scary.
Baltimore next year is going to be a scary team if they make the right moves in the off season. They’re already a problem for these AL East teams imagine when they add some legit arms. It was good to see them hold on to Mullins through the deadline I think that was a positive sign for next season. I’m not an Oriole’s fan but I do love what they’ve put together in that organization.
You will be looking up at the Os. They starting their run. Of course they gotta spend some money oin sp. maybe a power bat. Cause the bullpen which is op this year is sure to regress.
I for one will be absolutely shocked if the orioles do anything major positive this off-season. I bet they become the Pirates of the A.L. Never ending rebuild. No I don’t have the inside scoop on them but I have no confidence in them either.
Bet you get shocked often… you don’t have a clue who the Os front office is now.. or the current farm system. Or the current roster we have in the majors. You don’t know the Os current staff that actually develops these players or picks up scraps and turns them in something of value ( entire bullpen, Lopez who then swapped for 4 prospects, voth, etc.) one thing I’ll give you is the owners… when it’s time to open up and spend oin the payroll will they do it? That’s can be questioned.
WTF do you think I was talking about clown?
Lol your name absolutely fits you. Zero facts or substance you offer. You have a solid night kid.
There’s no question the Orioles will spend money this offseason to improve their club. I don’t see them brining their payroll up to the pre-rebuild totals of a $160M, but I can see them spending between $30M – $50M on free agents. They also have some sizable increases due to their current players via arbitration. The biggest question is will they spend a large portion of their free agent dollars on one of the top short stops or will they spend it on starting pitching?
This site is full of idiots. Bmore ballistics. Talking to you.
Your still crying clown? Embarrassing life you have.
Lol.
Keep Mateo at SS, sign pitchers
Of all the signings of all of the teams, this was the most puzzling to me this last off-season.
I thought acquiring JBJ for Renfroe was more puzzling. But I might be overlooking some reasoning that justified it.
Binelas and Hamilton
Thanks. So it was a trade for the future, despite weakening the outfield this year, no?
Nothing special about either of those guys that should have made Boston make that trade. JBJ was cooked when they let him walk the first time. At least Renfroe is a decent bat that could have helped them this season JBJ did literally nothing.
Exactly Fink. Maybe you’ll get it eventually.
Benintendi, Renfroe Hosmer, Vazquez, Workman, Hembree — They all brought back minor leaguers. The idea is to get back value in prospects, while continuing to field a competitive team. Red Sox don’t have the brass to compete right now, due to the decrepit state the team was in when Bloom took over. But, soon the Red Sox will have enough depth, and they won’t have to trade down so much.
Yeah, Mystery Team, Bloom replaced a 1.7 bWAR outfielder with 20 HR and a 117 OPS+ and got back an all-glove outfielder with a -0.3 bWAR and a 60 OPS+. The Sox outfield went from the 5th rank in fWAR last year to the 23rd rank while Bradley was on the roster.
It certainly looks like Boston is going to let Xander walk this offseason, moving Story to SS. They will fill his roster spot with either Jeter Downs or perhaps even David Hamilton (even though he’s only at AA). No matter who they add, he won’t have the impact of Xander offensively. Casas will be up next year and add a little pop to the lineup, but JDM will be gone and Hosmer/Casas will replace him at DH. That will subtract from the total offense too. Both JBJ and most likely Kiké will be gone from the OF and they lost Vasquez’s bat from the lineup too. Boston’s outfield next season is a disaster right now, except for Verdugo but he’s a doubles hitter and not a power bat. If Bloom spends money anywhere or cashes in some of his prospect chips, it has to be for a power hitting outfielder and an offensive minded catcher. Maybe they re-sign Vasquez but that doesn’t doesn’t move the needle too much. They could re-sign Pham but he doesn’t give you that much offense either. I’m not aware of any big name free agent OFs available this year in free agency so this team could be in real trouble next season at the plate. Maybe they take a chance on Michael Conforto? One thing is for sure, if they let Devers walk in 2023, I’m giving up on them.
So many things I disagree with.
-Jeter Downs and David Hamilton will not be on the roster, unless there are injuries.
-“he won’t have the impact of Bogaerts” Trea Turner would be an improvement both offensively and defensively. He’s the guy Im hoping for.
-“If Bloom spends money” First off, thats an ownership question, not a decision a Baseball Operations guy gets to decide. Next, of course owners will spend money. Didn’t we hear this the last year, then Story was signed. They have 100 Million in Threshold space. How about we assume ownership IS going to spend up to the Threshold, instead of changing the philosophy they’ve used for the past 20 years.
-“has to be for an offensive minded catcher” Why? If they grab Contreras great! But realistically, where the Red Sox have several positions to fill, Catcher is the LAST place they should look for offense. So much easier to obtain a bat that plays Infield or Outfield over Catcher.
-“Im not aware of any big name free agent outfielders this year” Aaron Judge? Michael Brantley? But, I’d go for someone like Brandon Nimmo or take a chance with Mitch Haniger.
“If they let Devers walk . . .” Its a two-way street. They both have to agree on a deal. Maybe Devers doesnt like Boston. Maybe he wants 400 Million to stay. Is he worth that to you? Red Sox are only 50% of the negotiating equation. And regardless of the player, there needs to be a cap for fiscal responsibility. Yankees probably arent signing Aaron Judge. Are they wrong, if they dont? Every deal has to be approached logically.
I don’t see Boston getting into the Judge sweepstakes. Boston is clearly trying to rebuild their team with prospects, and supplementing the major league roster with with short term veteran deals until they are ready. 2025 should be the season we’ll see if this strategy pays off as most of their top prospects should be ready by then, or will have failed by then. I like the idea of Haniger a lot. He should be willing to sign a 3 year deal at this point in his career but injuries remain a concern with him. Nimmo is a good player but I think the Mets do all they can to bring him back and he might require a 6-7 year deal to sign him which I don’t think Boston wants to do.
Hindsight is 20-20 but Boston should have locked Devers up long term two years ago. I still think they need to pay him, even if it requires an 8-10 year deal. He is a special talent and after the Betts debacle, fans are going to be very upset if they let Devers walk. The last couple of years of the Devers contract could be bad but that’s the cost of doing business in baseball these days. You have to retain star players if you want to be successful and Devers is a star for sure.
“Exactly Fink. Maybe you’ll get it eventually.”
Why the snark, especially when I wasn’t talking to you?
“Red Sox don’t have the brass to compete right now, due to the decrepit state the team was in when Bloom took over.”
What do you mean, “the brass”? If that’s your slangy way of saying they don’t have the money, that’s absurd. Forbes ranks the Red Sox third in revenue, sixth in operating income, and third in franchise value, with a 13% increase in value over the previous year and a 0% debt/value ratio. Financially, they’re among the healthiest franchises in the league. Despite their record this year, they’re 8th in total attendance, with a fiercely loyal fan base that fills the seats every year.
If by “brass” you mean the leadership of the team, to whom are you referring — the GM? The manager? Ownership?
As for “the decrepit state the team was in when Bloom took over,” MLB Pipeline ranked the Sox’ farm system 25th when Bloom was hired. The Astros’ farm system was ranked 28th and the Brewers’ farm was ranked 30th. The Astros lead the AL and the Brewers rank 5th in the NL and hold a Wild Card berth presently, and they’re both doing so with less revenue and less operating income.
None of this remotely explains the need to bring back Jackie Bradley, Jr., a player whom the franchise knew very well — or should have.
Dalbec?
Where you getting your information? Please provide the links. I could only find 2 sites, both rank the Red Sox dead last.
——Dombrowski was fired 9/9/19——
MLB Pipeline Prospect Ranking 8/3/19
Red Sox 30th out of 30 teams
Astros 15th
mlb.com/news/top-100-prospect-list-2019-midseason-…
Bleacher Report 8/19/19
Red Sox 30th out of 30 teams
Astros 25th
bleacherreport.com/articles/2849545-future-power-r…
It doesnt take rankings to know the minor leagues were in terrible shape, just look at what little fruits have come out since then. When you decide to start being honest let me know.
Also “Brass” was meant to mean star players, and a strong lineup. It had nothing to do with money. They don’t have the team to fully compete until the have a stronger roster.
One more not on poor state of prospects when DD left:
MLB Pipeline in the link provided above, says this about state of the Red Sox farm system:
“Graduations and trades have thinned out the Red Sox system that ranked as baseball’s best four year’s ago.”
What corresponse with “four year’s ago”? 2015? The hiring of Dombrowski. DD took the best farm system in all of baseball and dismantled it to the worst.
Tell me the Red Sox wouldn’t be in better shape if they had Michael Kopech and Jalen Beeks in the rotation, while Manuel Margot patrols RF. Even Yoan Moncada would be some help.
Chaim Bloom wasn’t hired until October 2019. The only trades he made before July 2020 were:
Adenys Bautista for Sandy Leon;
Angeudis Santos for Austin Brice, who was already a major league pitcher;
Sam Travis for Jeffrey Springs, who was already a major league pitcher;
Jhon Nunez for Matt Hall, who was already a major league pitcher; and
the Betts trade, for Downs, Verdugo and Wong, and only Downs and Wong were added to the farm because Verdugo was already a major league player with the Dodgers.
I therefore cited the 2020 farm system rankings released by MLB Pipeline on March 9, 2020, given the minimal impact Bloom had made on the Boston farm system up to that point.
mlb.com/news/2020-farm-system-rankings
And are you really arguing a substantial difference between Boston being ranked 30th and the Astros being ranked 28th?
And, once again, none of this remotely explains the need to reacquire JBJ, which was the origin of the discussion.
You think ANYONE can rebuild a farm system in 9 months? Are you insane?
It takes 4-5 years unless you trade every major league asset, and even then, it’s a multiple year process
So congrats. You proved that Bloom didn’t do what no one ever has done. Whoop tie do
According to your list the #1 prospect is Jeter Downs and Connor Wong is the #14 ranked. Of course that would affect the teams overall ranking. Jeter Downs was considered the 44th best prospect in all of baseball.
“Its accurate except for that #1 prospect, I pretend that doesn’t effect the list at all. Other lists printed before acquiring Downs and Connor exist that show me wrong, but I like this list”.
Get real. Bloom walked into a schiot burger, that had been over the cap for 3 years, with a mandate to get under the cap. Astros didn’t have nearly as many issues at that time.
Who are you talking to?
You seem to have lost track of the conversation. Let me refresh your memory, if possible.
“Of all the signings of all of the teams, this was the most puzzling to me this last off-season.”
“I thought acquiring JBJ for Renfroe was more puzzling. But I might be overlooking some reasoning that justified it.”
“Binelas and Hamilton”
“Thanks. So it was a trade for the future, despite weakening the outfield this year, no?”
Then you jumped in with your snarky, supercilious comment, and turned this into a discussion of the farm system, setting up a straw man that Bloom wasn’t being given credit for improving the farm system, which neither I nor anyone else said. I detailed the moves he made prior to March 2020 to justify my choice of the 2020 farm system rankings instead of the 2019 rankings. If the farm were ranked 30th before Bloom was hired and 25th after his initial moves, he boosted the rank five places. No one, certainly not me, was contesting that. To the contrary, since you’d already noted the #30 rank in the prior year, the improvement was a given.
In that same snarky comment, you also said:
“The idea is to get back value in prospects, while continuing to field a competitive team.”
As I pointed out to Mystery Team: “The Sox outfield went from the 5th rank in fWAR last year to the 23rd rank while Bradley was on the roster.”
Therefore, the addition of JBJ — which is what the discussion was about until you hijacked it — appeared to be a poor choice for a franchise “continuing to field a competitive team.”
The discussion was about a single trade in which Bloom brought back JBJ, whose contribution to the team this year was a -0.3 bWAR. We were talking about the impact of that acquisition on the team’s performance this year.
So, getting back to the original discussion, is it your contention that putting JBJ in the outfield was a good idea?
And finally, in your divergent discussion about farm rankings, you said this: “Astros didn’t have nearly as many issues at that time.”
The Astros lost their GM and their manager, and were fined $5 million and forfeited their first- and second-round draft picks in 2020 and 2021 as punishment for their cheating scandal. I would count those as “issues,” in addition to their having less money to spend to begin with.
But, again, none of that has anything to do with the wisdom or lack thereof of bringing back JBJ.
Ill put your words in quotes, maybe you’ll better understand:
“So it was a trade for the future, despite weakening the outfield this year, no?”
When you trade Player A to another team for Player B and 2 prospects. Player B is never as good as Player A. Not sure how you thought that is tough to understand.
“Is putting JBJ in the outfield a good idea”
No, acquiring 2 good prospects during a rebuild year is a good idea. See my first post to you, you know the one where you thought I was snarky, because you asked a loaded question that had an obvious answer. That comment breaks down my opinion far more.
“MLB Pipeline ranked the Sox’ farm system 25th when Bloom was hired. The Astros’ farm system was ranked 28th and the Brewers’ farm was ranked 30th.”
MLB Pipeline has the Sox farm system at 30th and Astros at 15th in August of 2019. After Bloom traded for their #1 prospect (Jeter Downs) and #14th prospect (Connor Wong) they jumped to 25th ranked farm system in the March 2020. There was no other GM making deals after Dombrowski got fired and Bloom hired, but Bloom did make a few transactions before the March 2020 list. So, saying they had the 25th ranked farm system when Bloom came is wrong.
I didn’t “think” it was snarky; it was snarky:
“Maybe you’ll get it eventually.”
And you’re at it again, or I should say, still:
“Ill put your words in quotes, maybe you’ll understand better.”
I’ll engage in a civil discussion with anyone. When you show yourself willing to be civil, or even capable of being civil, I’ll reply to you again, and not until. Life’s too short and time too precious to be spent on this.
P.S.
At the time of the trade, Bloom said this:
“True center-fielders are hard to find and we feel like we now have two of the best in that position,” Bloom said. “What he brings to our roster is a very hard thing to find. Obviously, moving Hunter leaves a hole but we felt having two premium center-fielders is a huge boost to our roster and we’re also excited about the minor-league players that we got. We felt this was something that made sense for us right now and has the chance to pay dividends down the road.”
With the Sox in last place with a losing record and the fWAR of the outfield having plunged compared to last year, it turned out that the trade didn’t make sense “for right now,” regardless of how the prospects turn out in the future. This can be admitted without saying that Bloom is a bad GM or hasn’t made improvements elsewhere. He tried to balance the wish to compete this year with the need to replenish the farm. In this case, he failed because JBJ was a poor choice. The Sox have admitted as much, having released him.
I feel I need to clarify one thing before I go.
When I’m confronted by a hostile poster engaging in putdowns, that person’s caustic attitude is his problem — until I find myself responding in kind. Then it’s my problem.
Up above, I posted “You seem to have lost track of the conversation. Let me refresh your memory, if possible,” a remark that stinks of the same kind of superciliousness that you expressed toward me; and I don’t want to be that guy. That kind of behavior on my part shames me. Recognizing, therefore, my own susceptibility to that kind of temptation, it behooves me to disengage.
McCourt – Bloom has had nearly 3 years to rebuild the farm system. He has had the luxury of working for a team with a huge amount of financial resources. He has had the luxury of inheriting a very talented team that he could use to trade for prospects, some he did such as Betts and Price. He also has had the benefit of good draft positioning after a down 2019 season and a horrid 2020 season.
You say a farm system can’t be rebuilt in a short amount of time? Then I guess you weren’t around in 2016 when the Yankees did just that by trading Chapman, Miller and Beltran. There are other examples too.
My turn to copy and paste:
“if that’s your slangy way of saying”
“that’s absurd”
“And are you really arguing”
“Who are you talking to?”
“You seem to have lost track of the conversation. Let me refresh your memory, if possible.”
“Then you jumped in with your snarky, supercilious comment”
“In that same snarky comment, you also said:”
Im the hostile commentor? You look to argue, but need to play the victim to justify it. Give me a break
Yeah, you are.
The only thing you quoted above that applies is the one I already quoted to admit it was a bad choice of words.
You in fact were using a slang term and admitted it later, so asking you if you were doing so is hardly an insult.
Likewise, for anyone to say that one of the richest franchises in the sport lacked money would be absurd; again, not insulting in the least.
“Who are you talking to?” wasn’t addressed to you.
Calling you out for your snide tone isn’t hostile; it’s just calling you out. If you can’t own your snark, as I owned mine, that’s unfortunate; but that’s not on me.
I won’t say that you’re playing the victim now, because it’s entirely possible that you read hostility into words that weren’t freighted with any. But, again, that’s not on me. I know what I meant and how I expressed it.
And now that I’ve explained all that should need explaining, I’m done. Hope that helps.
P.S.
To now say that I “look to argue” is belied by the thread of this discussion. Retrace it and you’ll see that you jumped into a conversation in which I hadn’t addressed you. So who was looking to argue?
Again, adios.
And I thought Sale’s “return” was short-lived.
Small market Sox can’t catch a break.
Small market…? You are aware of their payroll? I’ll take that as a no. Ignorance is bliss
Don’t understand sarcasm do you?
ignorance is bliss, he says
Mattyd n Marvin..cute defending your boyfriend. Just maybe come at it with facts next time? Sox spend money. They just allocated it poorly this past offseason. They’ve got a lot coming off the books this off-season and can turn things around.
Why grouping me in, I was on your side. Bmore. Now F off.
Baltimore will be decent for 2 or 3 years, and then go back into oblivion. How many top 5 picks have they had the past 20 years? I guess “allocated poorly” doesnt apply to draft picks. Now hurry up, make the playoffs for a couple of years and go away.
wow, you actually don’t understand sarcasm. ignorance truly is bliss tonight
Lol should of made your name sensitive snowflake. Take easy there little one. I apologize if I hurt your feelings.
Has the midiol not kicked in yet sweetheart?
did you know Boston is a small market team? lowest payroll ever
You seem like a wonderful guy there Bmore. Glad you don’t understand sarcasm.
Bmore, I can get you a great deal on the Brooklyn Bridge today, but you have to let me know by noon. Have a good day and try to be less gullible.
Your address will suffice
loved this guy in twister
“Game Over Man, Game Over.”
youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY
Better in True Lies.
Forgot this guy still played, probably should’ve just retired after 2020.
Why….as long as there are teams willing to sign him to new contracts for virtually no work (21 innings pitched over the last 3 seasons and never having pitched more than 160 innings in a season), the Big Maple will be very willing to sign on the dotted line……both he and Jed Lowrie should start a podcast!
True that. When it comes to legalized bank robbery, those two are some of the best.
And they say you need a weapon for armed robbery.
Will never forget watching his no-hitter against Toronto. Crazy that was just 4 years ago.
How are today’s players more fragile than ever…
Depends on how you define “todays players”….Paxton is 33 and soon to be 34…not exactly a young spud!
No way they pick up those options. Not worth shelling out that type of money for a guy likely to spend the better part of the next two seasons injured and hasn’t pitched well in nearly half a decade already.
Decline the options, accept the sunk cost and move on
Injuries never end. Never in my life have I seen so many players hurt so bad. It’s becoming commonplace. I don’t want to hear they are professional athletes or the body isn’t made for all this. Something is wrong with everything they are doing.
Paxton? Injured? Has he ever had a season without an injury…no.
Calling him Big Maple is an insult to maple trees. More like Big Fragile.
Chaim Bloom might as well as taken that 11 million outside and thrown it into the air. Another great Bloom move. So this guy got 11 million dollars to rehab for the year. That is great “Work” if you can get it. Henry please get yourself a Big Time GM after the season. Bloom is a disaster
@AL34 – Paxton was only paid $6M this year, not $11M. The $11M is the AAV of the deal should Boston pick up both options. So while the $11M goes towards their CBT calculation, they ‘only’ paid out $6M in cash to him so far.
Bloom’s biggest mistake this past offseason was trading Renfroe and taking on $18M for JBJ ($10M salary plus an $8M option buyout for next season). Are Binelas and Hamilton really that good of prospects to spend a net $12M in cash to acquire? ($18M less Renfroe’s salary). I’d say no, especially when the top overall draft picks only cost teams $6M – $9M in signing bonuses. Neither of these players were first round picks (3rd & 8th round picks respectively) so Milwaukee made out big time on this deal. They got a much better player in Renfroe, saved $12M in payroll costs and recouped at least 8X of the money it cost them in signing bonuses to draft both players. Hamilton is ranked as Boston’s 50th best prospect right now and is at best a utility infielder should he make it to the majors. While Binelas has some serious power potential, he strikes out way too much and has an awful batting average early in his minor league career. Maybe he can turn it around some, but he’ll be lucky if he ever hits .250 in the majors given the massive holes in his swing. He does have a good eye at the plate but scouts are down on him given his swing and miss propensity. Just an awful deal in my opinion.
I think it’s worth being patient with Binelas, but overall agree highly. Not to mention he was one of our best power sources, which we could really use this year.
Dotty – If Paxton pitches for the Sox this year, it will be $10M salary not $6M.
fansided.com/2022/01/10/red-sox-james-paxton-contr…
I think the idea came from Scooby. Scooby, who should I trade? Renfroe. Ok Scoob.
AL34 always misrepresents facts, he likes people defending meaningless points. Paxton is being paid 6 Million this year.
Bloom:
Paxton + Hill + Wacha = 18 Million
Dombrowski’s Leftover:
Sale + Eovoldi = 37 Million
I’d take Blooms guys over Dumbrowski’s any day of the week. And for HALF the money.
Without commenting on the quality of the signings, Eovaldi, Sale & JD cost us $66M for a combined 1.5 bWAR.
Yeah okay, I stand corrected. I had thought I’d was 11 million dollars. If you say it is 6 million then Bloom walked outside and threw 6 million dollars into the wind. Still a waste no matter which way you look at it.
Are you impressed with any of Chaim Bloom’s rookies this year?
BoSox have enough to deal with Chis Sale. Let these injury prone players alone
he and chris sale are getting married
I bet Brian Cashman cannot wait to bring him back to the Yankees (granted he’s not brought back after this season).
So while the $11M goes towards their CBT calculation, they ‘only’ paid out $6M in cash to him so far.
=================================
I don’t know if it will work out that way. He has $6M guaranteed this year, and $4M guaranteed next year. I’m guessing it will either be $6M + $4M for ’22 & ’23, or $13M/$13 for 23/24.
Lots of different break downs of Paxton’s contract. I know you’re just repeating earlier comment, but nowhere can i find “11M”. Its either 6M with incentives or 10M, depending on where you read.
The best breakdown I can find is this:
1 year/$10M (2022), plus 2023 or 2023-24 options
signed by Boston as a free agent 11/30/21
22:$6M, 23:$4M player option or 23-24 club options, to be exercised or declined simultaneously, at annual salaries of $13M plus performance bonuses earned in 2022
2022 performance bonuses: $250,000 each for 12, 14, 16, 18 starts
annual performance bonuses for 2023-24, if options are exercised: $250,000 each for 20, 22, 24, 26 starts, less 2022 bonuses earned
Do they get the ’10 Mil’ based on Paxton exercising the 2023 clause? Or does it add up to ’10 Mil based on incentives? None of the articles are very clear on the specifics. I doubt they know either.
I see a minor league contract with an invitation to spring training in his future.
No way Boston picks up his option.
Even a mild lat strain is six weeks.
Tonight was another great pitching performance from one of our illustrious rookie pitchers that Chaim Bloom holds up so dearly. Crawford gave up 9 earned runs over 3.2 innings to the Orioles. I hope Bloom has a better plan next year although I hope we have a major league GM next year instead.