The Orioles have been one of the biggest stories of the 2022 season, emerging from years of rebuilding and mediocrity to post a 59-54 record and challenge for a wild card slot. Even if it looks like the O’s may have turned the corner already, the club definitely wants to make winning a habit going forward, and a payroll increase will come along with that planned return to contention.
“Our plan for this offseason has always been to significantly escalate the payroll,” GM Mike Elias said in an appearance on The Front Office Show on MLB Network Radio on Sirius XM. “I think a lot of that’s going to come through our own guys going into arbitration, but also we plan to explore free agency much more aggressively. We plan to maybe make some buy trades for some guys that are either on contracts or kind of in the tail-end of their arbitration.”
“The success…has only cemented those plans. I’m really looking forward to the offseason and kind of a winter meetings environment where we’re buying. I think it’s going to be a lot of fun for our group and for the organization.”
In a sense, there was nowhere to go but up for Baltimore’s spending considering that the team’s Opening Day was just under $43.8MM. This was the lowest amount any team was spending on its active roster, marking the fourth straight season that the O’s have been at or near the very bottom of the payroll list. As Elias noted, several players (Austin Hays, Cedric Mullins, Jorge Mateo, Dillon Tate) are becoming arbitration-eligible for the first time, while Anthony Santander is due a raise for his third trip through the arb process.
Still, it counts as a positive for Baltimore fans that a rising arbitration price tag doesn’t automatically make a player into a trade candidate, given all of the cost-cutting that has gone on during Elias’ rebuild. And now, Elias seems poised to make some significant veteran additions for the first time in his three-plus seasons in charge of the front office.
At the end of the 2017 season, the Orioles carried a franchise record payroll of just under $167.5MM. It is probably safe to assume that the O’s won’t suddenly jump back to that number in a single offseason, so a Rangers-esque offseason splurge likely isn’t in the cards. There is also the lingering question of a reported dispute within the Orioles’ ownership group, and whatever impact that could potentially have over the franchise’s willingness to spend (or who is ultimately making any big-picture spending decisions).
If Elias’ past job in the Astros front office is any guide, the Orioles’ winter could be somewhat akin to what Houston did in the wake of the 2015 season. After six losing seasons and an extensive rebuild, the Astros won 86 games and the AL Wild Card game, catching many fans and pundits off-guard in the same way that the Orioles have surprised this year. However, the Astros had a busy offseason that still stopped short of any true blockbuster moves, perhaps owing to both a feeling that the 2015 club was a bit ahead of schedule, and because Houston still wanted to see what it really had in some highly-touted youngsters who had yet to break out or even arrive in the majors. (For instance, 2016 was Alex Bregman’s debut season.)
The same could be said of the current Orioles, considering that so many of their top prospects — Grayson Rodriguez, Jordan Westburg, Gunnar Henderson, Colton Cowser — haven’t made their MLB debuts, while the likes of DL Hall and Kyle Stowers have only been up for a cup of coffee. That leaves the O’s with some uncertainty over who will or won’t be cornerstone pieces, and yet the sheer depth of prospect talent definitely bodes well for the future. And of course, Adley Rutschman has hit the ground running in his rookie season and already looks like one of the sport’s best catchers.
As much as Elias is tied to Astros history as the team’s former assistant GM and scouting director, he also wasn’t calling the shots in that organization, whereas he is at the top of Baltimore’s front office pyramid. It will be interesting to see Elias’ approach now that he is building rather than rebuilding, and given this lack of history, we can’t rule out a pursuit of, say, a major free agent. Elias did already pass on one chance to add to the Orioles at the trade deadline, as even with the team in contention, the club still dealt Jorge Lopez to the Twins and Trey Mancini to the Astros.
I’m curious as to how high they’ll go. This sounds like a marketing ploy to draw more fans. Lol
How does one “market” to get more fans? I’m sure every pro sports franchise would like to know this answer, particularly if all they have to do is go on a radio show – could save them a lot of $
Simple. Season ticket deposits are likely due soon
Every team has a marketing department and create ploys to draw fans. It’s not rocket science.
By not sucking and getting more people to watch? That adds fans
It’s a valid point. Notice the key phrase following his first claim: “I think a lot of that’s going to come through our own guys going into arbitration”
That should speak volumes. A lot of the increase is coming from arb increases? That’s…probably not what O’s fans were hoping for.
O’s have Gunnar coming soon… but why not sign a Trea or Correa and slide Gunnar to 3B? They’re deep at C, OF, 1B and lots of promising arms incoming comprise a solid foundation. I’d add to that in FA and, don’t look now, but we may just have to start taking the O’s as the real deal! Cheers all, good to see ya Clip!
Or maybe they make a good offer to Drury to play third. That way they improve the team without blowing their wad on one player and can add some other pieces.
Good to see you too, Gwynning. I hope you are well, my friend. Congratulations on Soto. Awesome for the fanbase, man. Bell isn’t too shabby either!
Thanks Clip, all is well. Pretty happy with the current build even if Señor Ringworm is a knucklehead. Anybody heard from Bucky? I owe him some tuna for some beautiful pheasants! Anyway, hope we meet for the Piece of Metal but nobody is banking on nothing quite yet. Aloha
No, haven’t heard a peep in months. I truly hope he’s alright and just leaving the cesspool of internet drivel behind. Ducky’s a good dude.
Correa is hitting .260 with declining power and defence. How much do you want to see the Orioles pay for that production? Oh, and he will be injured for 20% of the season.
Not sure if they’re deep at C and 1b. Definitely the outfield. Adley is the best C prospect. There isn’t a too 1b prospect even at single A. Unless, they’re gonna concert Mayo to 1b.
Gunnar will likely be playing 3B if they don’t trade Mateo. And either way, I highly doubt they’ll spend $20-30M on an SS. Not with Mateo playing solid and the SS pipeline they have.
Biggest needs are TOR SP (two) and a true middle of order hitter. Mountcastle has been ok, but not a consistent threat.
The O’s have depth in OF, SS, and the BP. I could see a trade of Mullins or Hays, Mountcastle, maybe Mateo, and/or a BP piece (and a 15-20 range MILB talent) for a controllable TOR SP and a dice roll.
A 2-3 year deal for Josh Bell. and a 1 year plus an option deal for another #2-type SP.
O’s are not deep at 1B. None of their top 50 prospects at 1B.
C is only deep because of Rutschman. They have a few middling types, but the next good one is in the FCL and still has a ways to go and boxes to check.
It’s funny lurking these boards for the past however many months and seeing how people have dumped on O’s fans talking up O’s prospects. Now people are just making stuff up.
Sign starting pitchers. It’s wasting resources to sign $400 MM middle infielders when they have so many on the come: Gunnar, Hernaiz, Westburg, Connor Norby, Cesar Prieto, Maikol Hernandez, Anthony Servideo. Maybe only the first two can legitimately play shortstop at the major league level, but Gunnar should be starting nezt May either at SS or next to Mateo at 3B.
Meanwhile, they have almost no near ready starting pitcher prospects, especially considering their moving of Hall to the pen and what that mean for his future.
Mayo has a gun for an arm, so he is more likely to stay at 3B.
Basallo is far away, true. But Maverick Handley is deemed the best defensive catcher in the organization. But he sure can’t hit like Adley. Should be an excellent back up if he can do a little something on O – maybe.625 OPS would be enough for top-flight defense from the backup.
Agreed that the arb raises being the bulk of the payroll increases isn’t what I want to hear. Especially combined with the trainwreck the ownership is (and now their lawsuit) …
On the other hand: If they don’t exercise Lyles’ option, then that’s likely more than all of the arb raises combined. So the payroll increases through FA signings is also possible.
It would be dumb to spend too much at once.
You said that like only a Mets fan could, Cosmo! #1 payroll… and crying “fowl” on the O’s possibly spending something?
I’m not crying foul. I’m saying it’d be a bad plan, give me a break, I think what I’m saying is pretty clear, don’t twist it.
Cool man, just talking ball and now I see your point. Cheers
The rebuild is done. Isn’t this the next logical step?
Yes. But there’s a difference between logically spending to supplement young talent, and recklessly spending when you do have a true maximum (likely) on payroll and guys will only get more expensive.
That’s where so many mid-market teams fail in their rebuild. They promise big additions or spending pre-offseason, and then spend just to spend on bad fits or massive overpays. And then those albatross deals lock up the payroll. Think, Rockies
Not mid-market, but I always think of the Phillies when this concept comes up. You need to have a better idea of what you have at the ML level before starting to hand out massive FA contracts, otherwise you can fall into the trap of going for it too early and not having the resources to ever build a legitimate contender.
How about the Rangers…
Nope. Spending big like that is best done gradually or at the end of the plan not the beginning.
I don’t think this means spend big necessarily. You’re talking about a team with a sub 40 million dollar payroll. You can double that easily without breaking the bank and signing fat deals.
i expect the O’s will add some starting pitching. Other than that—-the offense looks pretty good. Maybe 1 hitter to platoon at 1B/DH or in the OF.
The rebuild is never “done.” It will be ongoing, as it was planned to be in Elias’ own words.
It’s great to see some of their young talent shine. I hope everything they do aims to make them a better team now, but also with an eye to the future.
K.
Boston has to enter full rebuild. Yankees might look very different next year and who knows about Tampa and Toronto. Makes sense to at least open up the pocket book for a couple good FA’s until their big time prospects start making real money
This is an article about the Orioles.
Yes, you are correct.
The Orioles should be in the market for one of the top SS this offseason. If they can add a premier SS, and a TOR SP, they can fiddle with the bullpen a bit and they should be a legitimate playoff contender. They should get Means back next season too which won’t hurt their pitching at all.
Isn’t their top prospect a SS?
He’s a SS/3b I believe. Which is why someone like Correa makes sense for Baltimore, can interchange the two at ss/3b
Henderson will be a 3B at the Major Leagues, at least in the long term. Any time a guy has moved off SS before making his debut, there is essentially no chance of him moving back. Teams don’t take you off SS until they have to usually.
Same thing for Westburg except I see him as more of a 2B or a DJ Lemahieu type
It does not make sense to pay the premium for a FA ss, only to shift him down the defensive spectrum to 3b.
You haven’t been following the O’s org system lately have you? That’s how they’ve been handling nearly ALL of their middle infield prospects the past few years.
Henderson, Westburg, Ortiz, Prieto, Hernaiz, Burns, Bencosme, Estrada… Nearly every athletic MIF has played multiple positions (2B, SS, 3B). The O’s management values athleticism and positional flexibility. That at least allows guys to get more MiLB ABs.
All of that said: I agree with you that Gunnar will likely start his MLB career at 3B. Especially if they don’t trade Mateo. But Mateo has earned a little more leash this year.
Westburg strikes out much more than LeMahieu. Not a great comp as far as their hitting goes.
Why is Gunnar still playing most of his games at Shortstop then?
Agreed. Either start Gunnar at shortstop. Or part-tiime him between SS and 3B when Mateo starts ar SS
Story contract is already a laughing stock. Baltimore smart to not sign him.
Gunnar Henderson and Jordan Westburg are both SS/3B and at AAA. I highly doubt the Orioles will jump in the SS free agency market, unless 1 of the 2 are used as trade bait to fill another need.
Westburg has played most of his innings a 2B this season.
That’s not true. He’has started 39 games at short, 30 at 2B, and 25 at 3B. They have a wealth of infielders at AA and AAA. They have all been used at more than one position.
I see you printed another falsehood about Baltimore minor leaguers’ playing time at defensive positions. Before making another error, you may want to to check out this site: https://www.baseball-reference.com
The took my comment down. Again.
Jorge Mateo is an excellent SS.
Jorge Mateo has been exceptional defensively at short this year, leads the league in steals, and has finally started to hit. I don’t believe they will invest big money in a shortstop!
I would never spend big money on a SS. They’re not that hard to find. Same is true with CF. Great hitting, especially from the left side of the plate, is at a premium.
Nope. Full stop. The system is deep at SS. It’s dumb to spend money at the MLB level (for small/mid-market teams) at a position of org depth. That’s the position they should be trading away to the larger markets/verge of competing teams).
I can’t wait!!!
Plus, why not have signed Trevor Story this past off season?>
He would have helped!!!
Tigers.veen rebuilding several yrs must be hard to watch the Os take off.
I’m scared that the Orioles are the next Astros, but they don’t need trash cans
The only trash cans Stros have ever needed is to sweep up Yankee and Dodger debris, among all the other trash they’ve swept aside. And by the way Mike Elias, Orioles GM was Asst GM under Jeff Luhnow in Houston so when the Os get really good they will be good for a long time and result in a painful time for the rest of the AL East.
They clearly needed a trash can to “win” their only “title” in that pathetic franchise’s history.
Are you really pretending the Yankees won all of their titles because of steroids?
For that to track, they would have needed to win every title since… 1994? Sounds about right
Steroids were around long before 1994.
If you loop greenies in with HGH type roids, sure, it probably can be tracked till the 70s or earlier. But the HGH craze hit center stage around McGwire’s time. So late 80s-90s? But personally I do not include every stimulant to be a steroid. Cocaine was widespread in the 80s for example, but was it really a steroid though?
My point was the Yankees have a lot of success well outside of either of those timeframes
Are you using performance enhancing interchangeably with steroid? I agree with you that stimulants like that aren’t steroids, but it’s not really something where people can, “include” them, unless they’re just ignoring what a steroid, or more importantly to this conversation an anabolic steroid is.
Documented steroid use with athletes goes back to 1954. I wouldn’t be surprised if people used them in that 40 year gap. So you don’t need to include stimulants to say that steroids were around before 1994.
I was essentially saying it depends on your definition of steroid
1994 was simply the Yankees WS titles (27) minus the number of years there has been a title (2021). Tada. It wasn’t meant to be a hard endpoint as it seems like you’re attempting to claim
Personally, I think of the steroid era as mid to late 90s to the Mitchell report +/- a few years either way. And I think of “steroids” in MLB as HGH and other testosterone boosters intended to improve healing or muscle building. But I am happy to acknowledge athletes have always tried to gain advantages, and to me, if it wasn’t banned, it’s hard to penalize them in hindsight
And were cheating at the same time as the Astros.
Steroids were ubiquitous in college football in the 1950s. And it if was all over college football, it was of course all over the NFL, too
Scared of the orioles ? Yikes !
Wow!! Maybe they will add Judge or Trea Turner. ‘Significantly’ add payroll. Good for them.
Maybe wise to use some of that money and make a long term offer to Adley Rutchman.
If I am making a long-term offer to any of them, it’s Gunnar, not Adley
Would be better to spread spending out rather than overpay for a shiny object that will only add a few wins if that.
GL O’s fans on Elias’ follow-through. I grew up watching the O’s (during the Ripken/Murray days) as the Yankees’ nemesis and it’ll be fun to see a similar rivalry.
Until about the mid 90s, the Orioles were the only franchise with a winning record vs. NYY
I see a Correa deal happening with the O’s
mrnotsoniceguy,
Why would Correa want to sign with the Orioles? There’s only one reason I can think of. The only deal he would accept is a BIG overpay, something a kin to what the M’s paid Cano or the Angels paid Puhols. Otherwise, tough place for a right handed hitter and a team that still is not a World Series contender. Doesn’t seem like a fit to me.
Why would Correa want to sign with the Twins? There’s only one reason I can think of. The only deal he would accept is a BiG overpay,something akin to what the M’s paid Cano or the Dodgers paid Bauer. Otherwise, tough place for a right handed hitter and a team that still in not a World Series contender. Doesn’t seem like a fit to me, until it did.
Was Bauer really an overpay or did he just mess it up?
I don’t think they meant adding $35 million players. There payroll might go to 80-100 mill.
Better than Mets plan to lose for 30 years.
They have the second best record in baseball and an owner with twice as much money as anyone else. Did you think of the dumbest comment to post?
They are perennial losers who are having a fluke season. Did you think your comment on the Orioles plan to lose for 10 years was smart? I guarantee you the Orioles have a plan to win, and are executing on that plan. Don’t make dumb comments if you don’t want to receive equally dumb comments back. As a follower of the Mets. you’ve experienced losing more than the Os.
The orioles have had an open plan to lose for the last ten years. They were not trying to hide it. The Mets have not been perennial losers. They have a winning record in the last ten years, been to a World Series, and are having a far from fluke season. Sorry I hurt your feelings by openly saying what the Orioles plan has been for the last ten years.
@Mets698623; hey, love your passion.
That said, last half decade has been brutal here in Birdland, not decade. Under the leadership of first Andy MacPhail, then, your guy Buck Showalter and Dan Duquette, from 2012 to 2016 (5 seasons), the Orioles had the winningest record in AL with 3 post season appearances. What went wrong? Peter Angelos got old … and ill. In 2017 all of Baltimore knew this successful run was over and time for redirection. One issue. Popular belief here in Baltimore then was that Mr. Angelos old and in failing health, didn’t have time for that. Wanting to win, he kept the team together one year too long. Result. Disaster. 2018 he’s out his son John is in. And John launches the rebuild with the first key move being the Elias hire.
One more thing. Some good baseball people got caught up in that mess; including Dan and Buck. You’ve got quite a leader up there in Metropolitan land. Good luck with your playoff run. Cheers.
I have no Ill will towards the Orioles. I have a problem with teams that intentionally tank. A whole organization doesn’t need to be gutted and payroll dropped to nothing to get good again. I hope they do spend some money and try from now on.
@Mets698622; fair enough. Regards.
Mets69862095
You have a problem with brilliant Ivy League gms tanking because it’s the best strategy for team rebuilding? Seems like a moronic take but ok.
I think teams taking is a problem for the sport as well, but I don’t blame the teams for doing it Until the system for talent acquisition and retention is revamped, it makes a lot of sense for teams to do it, even if it doesn’t always work.
O’s were in the playoffs in 2014 and 2016.
The Orioles also made the playoffs in 2012. I guess y’all forgot they had one of the best records in MLB from 2012-2017. Five year window of contention followed by a five year rebuild. Looks like this Mets fan can’t count.
Factually false, The Orioles had the best record in baseball from 2012 – 2016. So half of your claim that they have been tanking for “10 years” ;is proven false by the first 5 of those 10 years you referenced.
Realize that the new GM, Elias, inherited a team that had been gutted of its top major league talent by the previous GM. There was not an alternate path to losing 100 games for at least a couple years.
Still having trouble believing the Orioles are 5 games above.500 this year. That bullpen has been a big surprise.
Elias is doing fine. They are sticking to their plan and that will lead them to success.
What plan was that? Losing for a decade?
That has been the Mets plan except for this fluke year.
Yep, and their World Series appearance in 2015 and wild card 2016 and 86 wins 2019… but don’t let the facts get in the way
The Mets and Orioles both have had 10 losing seasons in the last 15. If I go back prior to that I guarantee you the Os have won way more than the Mets. My point is if you are a Mets fan gloating over one good season this year the Os fans have just as much right to gloat over their good season this year and not listen to any Mets fans looking down upon the Os.
Worked for the Astros. Worked out as well as the Cubs losing for a century.
The Orioles are an overachieving team that really isn’t that good. They shouldn’t spend money yet or they will end up like the Rangers
Clueless but I guess that’s par for the course for Mets fans
The days of 100 losses and last place are over. Henderson at short, a recovery by Means and a free agent starter and they are in serious contention.
The days of 100 losses and last place are over. Henderson at short, a recovery by Means and a free agent starter and they are in serious contention.c
Cellar days are over.
Cellar (and “seller’) days are over.
If I were AJ Preller, the O’s would be the first team I would call if he decides he’s had it with Tatis. Even with diminished value, he still could net some good prospects, and free up cash to make a legitimate offer to Soto..and the O’s seem like they could be a match.
They aren’t giving up on Tatis any time soon.
The O’s need a plan. All these fans thinking spending means spending all in one place would make terrible GMs. They need a complete team not one or two superstars.
Nobody’s taking on Tatis, after injuries and off the juice he may go the Gary Matthews route , just mediocre no juice , but thanks for the dough.
I’m speaking from an outside perspective here, but I’d say the Orioles best bet would be to sign a veteran SP and try to make a couple shrewd trades. Give the young upcoming players another year to showcase themselves then start being aggressive in free agency the following year
Spot on. Play small ball. It’s not like a big name is going to consider Baltimore anyway
@Big whiffa; true. It’s been awhile since big names have come to Baltimore. But back in the day, they did. Tejeda, Belle, Alomar, Palmerio, Clark, Erickson, Lynn, Bonilla and so on. Hopefully it’s a thing again. Personally, I feel it has to happen to be truly competitive. Fingers crossed.
Stupid assertion. “Big Names” sign most often for the most money. If they didn’t, Texas would not have been able to sign Semien ans Seager after losing 102 games.
I tend to agree. Given that a majority of there improvement is going come from their young players, going out and getting a big time free agent who will be declining by the time the team is a serious contender is foolish.
Who believes them after trading quality players at the deadline while in serious contention for the playoffs?
Their payroll is low enough that they could increase it quite a bit and still be pretty cheap.
That’s why they had no reason to trade those players away.
Why not? They knew they wouldn’t have won a title with them, most likely, and it’s not worth the future for a vanity extra playoff win
Responsible and intelligent honestly
What future would they have lost keeping them? They didn’t bring back any organizational changing talent. Their farm system is already loaded. Competing is worth a lot and nobody knows what will happen in the playoffs once your there.
Your farm system can never be too loaded. Just look at the Padres.
I’m no oriole fan, but my understanding was they did get some nice talent.
If you really think Trey Mancini was what stands in the way of them beating the Dodgers or Yankees or Astros, more power to you
And the team improved. You have a poor understanding of teams not named “Mets.”
Should focus on starting pitching (trade market probably) and nothing else. Mateo has been great for two months now and deserves another look. See what you have in Gunnar, Westburg and Vavra at 2nd/3rd. Outfield will be fine. No need to spend 250m on one of these shortstops.
This is huge news. General consensus from us Os fans is that we believe in this rebuild. That said, highly suspicious that ownership would expand payroll when management said it is time to shift from rebuild to build.
I am now officially drinking the black and orange Kool Aid. This is not Mike Elias speaking, this is Mike Elias speaking for John Angelos. Mr. Angelos. Thank you.
C Yards Jeff;
The Orioles and the Guardians are the coming powers in the AL for the next 5 years. Possibly the Mariners as well, but their GM is like Preller – he fixes what isn’t wrong so that often the team regresses. And the Astros just keep reloading.
The differencen between BAL and CLE is where they are as far as their windows go and what that means about team spending going forward. BAL is not terribly cheap when they are contending. CLE, however, never spends. Will their ownership ever okay a pricey move that might put them over the top?
Cleveland spent during their last run. Like any good business planning a strategy, they rolled over funds to have extra cash when they are ready to compete and it’ll be needed (their quality players will be due major raises).
The ownership, FO, and Francona have been through all this before. They’ll be even better at it this time.
The reason I like Baltimore and Cleveland is because they’ve primarily built their teams from their farm system. Same as the Astros do. Developing 6-7 players and then trying to spend huge amounts in FA along with taking on salary dumps seldom works for more than a year or two. The objective is sustainable contention. One can’t plan for injuries, other teams having great years, etc. Have to stay in contention, work on your players to be better and better, and let them play it out on the field.
@Samuel; interesting. Thanks for the intel on Cleveland and Seattle. And, yep, Houston keeps on rolling. Mad respect for them. And in no way do I make judgement on them in regards to discretions. IMHO, all teams do crazy things to get an edge. It is part of the rich history of our national past time. Regards.
Would be interesting to see Cleveland and Baltimore trade with each other from their respective strengths to shore up each other’s needs.
Trea Turner and a starter not found in the junk bin would be good ways to start
I think Turner would be a great add to the Os. However I think they have a really solid starting lineup, and nice bullpen, and what they need is rotation help. If they could snag a DeGrom that would really be a big get.
@Rsox and stroh; me too. Big Turner fan. Of the handful of aging SSs up for a long term deal (7/8 yrs), he is a safe play. Tiny injury history and a physical body type that will hold up and keep him relevant in years 6/7/8.
And yes, more importantly, secure pitching, pitching and more pitching.
C Yards Jeff;
If they were to dump Jorge Mateo and give Trea Turner $30-plus a year on a long-term contract then I totally misread Elias and company.
@Samuel; hmm, good point. And in light of the Chris Davis deal gone a muck, most likely not in play. And Mateo, what a gamer. Love that guy! Maybe Henderson to 3rd, Mateo sticks and Westburg plays 2nd?
They shouldn’t let Chris Davis stop them from signing free agents that make sense. That said, I also don’t think them going out to get one of the top short stops on a 10/300 type contract is a good move for them .
You need to be more sure of what you have before you start making those types of commitments. Otherwise you go through the whole rebuild and end up as the phillies. Don’t be the Phillies.
I’m not that high on Westburg. They obviously don’t like Vavra’s glove very much but I like his bat. I wish he’d get some run out in the field to show what he could do.
@Jbigz44; agreed, Vavra is impressive. Not intimated one bit by being with the big club. Plays loose. Love it! Hmm. You got me thinking about his impact vs potential impact of Westburg. Elias has interesting dilemma on his hands.
Different GM, different managing owner, different strategy. Elias and Sig will sign free agents according to their strategy, not in response to a signing they had nothing to do with. (And probably never would have done in the first place.)
They’ll never be higher than a wild card playing in that division. Merge with Washington and join the NL and your path to the World Series gets easier.
Yeah cause teams do that all the time
Well, they should.
Lol
Can you imagine how good team california would be? The Los Angeles PadDogels of Oak Francisco.
Starting to wonder if giving up Mancini and Lopez was a mistake. Tough to pass up on a playoff opportunity. Kind of like the Nats shuttling down Strasburg his rookie year instead of sending him down early and bringing him back at the end of the year. The schedule is brutal though. I’m sure that was considered. Who knows, maybe they still sneak in…I think they’ll trade some of their pieces for controllable vets. As a Brewer fan I cringe at losing Burns and Woodruff, but if they won’t sign reasonable deals to stay, they will be traded. I.E. Hader
Why would you cringe? You cringe at good gms running mid market teams correctly?
I loved the Mancini trade for them. Seth Johnson is going to be a stud in a couple years, and the Orioles have younger, better alternatives to replace Mancini next season. I had mixed feelings about the Lopez trade at first, but after watching Cade Povich dominate in his first two starts for the Orioles High-A team, I’m starting to think that that was a wise move for them too. It weakened them slightly this season, but made them potentially much better in the long run. And the long run is what Elias is focused on.
Lopez has been in the majors nearly a decade and he’s had a good Half season on a team with no expectations. They managed to get 3 low minor leaguers with a solid track record and a guy who they figure could be a near term lottery ticket. Chances are, one of these guys has a better career than Lopez. Love the deal for the O’s
Knowledgeable comment! Though not sure I agree that they weakened this year’s team
Would love for my orioles to grab one of your two pitchers just don’t know what it would cost
Hoping the same here comes the judge lol
Don’t go crazy like the Rangers, but they need some supporting cast. O’s looking good for next year.
The Rangers went crazy and still couldnt put a dent in that divsion, that means that they didnt go crazy enough, not the other way around. Look at whos in the Orioles division: they are NOT looking good for next year. They need Trea++++
There is no way they are signing Trea Turner to a long-term(10 year contract. They already have one of the most talented shortstops in the league. They have the #1 prospect in the game . . . . who just happens to play shortstop. They just drafted Holliday 1/1. He could be here in three years. Why spend money on something you don’t really need?
No that means they shouldn’t have even considered signing those guys since they weren’t close whatsoever. If you need to sign two SP, entire middle IF, two pen arms multiple other pieces you aren’t close to winning therefore you don’t need to sign anyone.
Payroll will drop 15 mil just for Davis contract moving to deferrals. Need a quality starter and a left handed bat.
If the O’s are smart they’ll go get one ace and one innings eater #3 and take flyers on relievers and a platoon pair at 2b/3b. Let everyone else figure it out.
They need one dude that can hit homers.
I wonder if he is lying lol.
About F’ing time.
I am sure the Oriole front office will take inventory and evaluate each of its current players and then decide where and if they spend money. Starting pitching could be a spot to improve upon. They will have many decisions to make about their prospects.
They’re definitely going to throw $300M at Trea Turner, Carlos Correa and Dansby Swanson. Will anyone pick them over a team that doesnt play in the same div as NYY/BOS/TOR/TBR remains to be seen. They are going to have to dramatically overpay to beat out contenders in weaker divs.
So will Seattle and the player will pick mariners every time or stay with current franchise
If the O’s were to throw 300m at swanson he’d sign…because no team is going to come close to that.
If anybody throws 300 million at Swanson there an idiot he’s nowhere worth that much
Overpaying is a good way to never win.
300 million for the three of those is pretty good. 300 million to one of them is a huge mistake
Be awesome if they signed judge away from NY but that’ll never happen.
Orioles are 3-4 years away of continuously contending before big name free agents will consider Baltimore as nothing more than a bidder to get their price up
Disagree, Baltimore should be a legitimate contender next season, and one of the very best teams in baseball by 2024-25. They have tons of money to spend, and their young up and coming core won’t get expensive for 4-5 more years.
Free agents like A.) money and B.) signing with teams that are set to be legitimate playoff contenders. And the Orioles seem able to offer both of those things to free agents going forward.
People do this every time, you need to let the young players actually establish themselves before you start penciling BAL in as one of the best teams in MLB. Prospects bust, not all young MLB players consistently improve and injuries happen.
Depends on the continued development of starting pitching. If we get that right—O’s are very serious for the foreseeable future.
Aaron Judge has to many injury problems but I do believe Aaron Judge will not be a Yankee next year
Must be exhausting to have to complete with teams like the Yankees and RedSox and Rays and Jays. To overgrow, must know ways to weaken them. Snag good players from your own division period.
The Orioles need to smartly invest in pitching. That is what is helping them win games right now. But, to bank on these flash in the pans and an as to yet incredible (and unsustainable) run by the bullpen to happen again next year and in the long term future would be silly.
Means may not be very good for most of is return from injury. Most guys take a bit longer to get back into form.
It is time for the Orioles, if they are seriously going to invest and be serious about competing to do what they never do, invest in their pitching. That is how you win. Then you trade for some hitters that have a trait the entire lineup lacks, the ability to get on base. Enough of these .250 hitters that strike out 100+ times a year and walk 20-30 times.
THIS exactly. They don’t need to sign a SS in the offseason, they need to heavily invest in pitching.
Their farm system is absolutely stacked with hitting prospects, at nearly every position. I don’t know if I have ever seen a system so stacked with so many potential stud hitters. They have Henderson, Westburg, Connor Norby, Terrin Vavra, Joey Ortiz, Darell Hernaiz, and now Jackson Holliday (their SS of the future after they move Gunnar to 3B). They are absolutely loaded with great OF prospects as well.
They need a true, proven ace like Carlos Rodon in the offseason. That should absolutely be priority number one, and adding a second dependably solid starter like Mike Clevinger or Jameson Taillon wouldn’t hurt either. The rotation is easily their biggest area of need.
A team “invests” in pitchers by making them better. This is what the Astros do; Guardians; Dodgers; Rays, and Brewers.
Buying pitchers that are going well is is what FO people like Preller, Epstein, Shapiro and others do. Then when the pitcher needs tuning up the coaching staff can’t do it and the team is stuck with a large contract that stops them from spending for reinforcements.
The O’s did a great job with their bullpen this year. No reason they won’t do that next year. If the current pitchers go south in 2023 they can bring in others and tune them up. As for starters – the Nationals spent 4-1/2 years working with Austin Voth, both as a starter then reliever, then starter again. They finally released him. In 9 starts the O’s coaching staff has turned him into a solid #4 and possibly #3 starter. Watching him pitch it’s hard to believe this is the same guy. They made Wells a successful starter from the bullpen, and have grown Bradish, Kremer, and Watkins this year.
As pointed out by former pitcher and TV analyst Ben McDonald the problem the O’s are currently having is that both many of the pitchers and position players are so young that they’ve never played a season this long before. Many have hit a wall in mid-August. So we’ll see.
The Orioles are doing a good job developing their pitching prospects too, but most of them are still a couple of years away from making an impact. As opposed to their hitting prospects, where many of their top guys should be in the majors for most of next season. They absolutely need to add at least one TOR type starter in the offseason to seriously compete next season, in my opinion. If they are aiming more for 2024-25, they could continue with the route you described.
This is the same mistake the Orioles have always made. “We don’t need any pitching because we already have X, Y, Z.” It is like they don’t fathom that these guys can, and usually do fail, especially in this organization.
You want to get serious? Get some serious pitching. Stop looking for bargain bin lighting in the bottles. Stop getting mid tier or lower tier guys you hope have a great year. This is not how you build a serious contender.
Pitching, pitching, pitching.
@Samuel
Agree completely but even the good teams will spend on an arm and make them better too.
Cole and Verlander w: the Stros are two prime examples. Fantastic what they’ve done w Kremer and the waiver wire club but imagine what they could do with a top tier arm.
Fun team in Baltimore – I wonder who they will be adding this offseason
My guess is two durable (for whatever that’s worth in a pitcher) MOR starters for 3 year contracts. That would be pretty nice.
Bring back Mancini(4/70?), maybe one of the star SS, target a starting pitcher with 2 years of control in a trade and see which of the youngsters are gonna be somebody
That is a massive overpay for Mancini, and they really have no need to bring him back. And SS is probably the Orioles least necessary area to address. They are loaded with above average SS prospects, most of which will be MLB ready in the next year or two. And they just drafted Holliday as their long term SS of the future. They need pitching, plain and simple.
I kinda figured similar rate to Castellanos with a bit knocked off for age but Mancini can actually play defense so not too much and guys are making more every year.
Don’t count those prospects before they hatch
I think 3/45 is way more realistic for Mancini. Don’t expect BAL to be the ones doing it though.
2/$25MM would be a huge win for Mancini’s agent
Good god no, do not bring back Mancini. Time to bring up minor leaguers – Stowers, Gunnar, Westburg, etc. — and see who pans out. Mancini is just a roadblock to young talent. And what a waste of money that could be spent better on starting pitchers.
All these comments saying we should get SS. We are loaded in the minors at SS and OF. Call me crazy, and I know it won’t happen….but we could sign DeGrom and Verlander and have a payroll around $160M. Add Grayson, DL, Gunnar and company and tell me we aren’t a WS favorite. It wouldn’t jeopardize anything long-term either, as neither contract would exceed 3 years.
They wouldn’t be a WS favorite and depending on what the teams in their division do this offseason, likely not even division favorites. deGrom has thrown 16 innings this year, let’s see if he can even stay healthy for the rest of this season.
Go get Judge. Would be a cool to see the Orioles get under yankees fans skin lol
The O’s have built an outstanding farm and are rebuilding like the great class act Orioles teams of the 60s and 70s. Pitchers Justin Arbruester, Drew Rom, Noah Denoyer, DLHall, Grayson Rodriguez; infielders Gunnar Henderson, Cesar Prieto and outfielders Adam Hall, Colton Cowser and Kyle Stowers make a strong class.
Leave the free agents to themselves until this base is ready for vets to fill any holes.
Hey hey! Somebody on here knows something about the Orioles. Glad to know you.
Of course I would add Hernaiz and replace Hall with Kjerstad…
It worked well for the Tigers of Detr…
Lopez and Mancini were big parts of why the Orioles progressed this season – so obviously they will have to be replaced. I’m thinking the Orioles may have to do what the Nats did years ago when they made a statement by signing Jayson Werth, showing a commitment to building and winning, and other free agents followed. I agree though that if they can sign two or three proven/productive major leaguers to go on top of the already solid foundation they’ve developed with guys coming out of their farm system they can be right in the mix next season – although the Yankees and Red Sox will just spend and spend to stay on top. The Orioles need to build more like the Rays have done.
All of these comments and opinions directed at the Orioles and the shortstop position. I truly think it would be detrimental towards the growth of this team to give up on their prospects and spend big money on a shortstop outside of it. That money would be better spent on a veteran starting pitcher. There is no need for Turner, Swanson and Correa on this team.
I think Baltimore should avoid at all costs any of the Houston Cheaters players. They are dirty players. Also they only care about themselves and will not help team chemistry. And they only care about how much money they can make per each season. I would say avoid them like the plague.
They are how a mid market team should be ran. Every team should model themselves after Houston. Sustained success is the goal. They have ran the AL for 5 seasons.
Congrats on the O’s at becoming competitive and more interesting for their fans. Now they need to settle the MASN mess or they’ll never afford much in the way of major free agents once the courts get through with them.
Not sure you understand the “MASN mess” and how it pertains or not to free agent signings,
Theyll go buy Aaron Judge for 8 years $400 million
No, the Orioles will not be signing Judge.