As soon as it reported that the Nationals were willing to listen to offers on star outfielder Juan Soto, there was speculation about the possibility of utilizing Soto’s unprecedented trade value to dump some or all of the $59MM owed to Patrick Corbin in 2023-24. (Stephen Strasburg’s name was also a popular source of speculation, but he has full no-trade protection, making that scenario even less likely.) In his weekly radio appearance on 106.7 FM’s “The Sports Junkies,” Nationals general manager Mike Rizzo plainly stated that he will not water down his return for any player, Soto or otherwise, by insisting that a trade partner take on an undesirable contract (link to full audio of the 21-minute interview).
“We’ve never contacted teams and talked about Juan Soto and attaching any contract to any player,” said Rizzo. “We’re not going to dilute a return for any player by adding a bad contract. That’s not where we’re at in our organization at this time. We want to get the most for each and every trade that we do, so we certainly are not going to tack on anybody’s contract to anybody’s deal, including Juan Soto’s or Josh Bell’s or anybody.”
Fans hoping to see their favorite team absorb the Corbin contract in order to reduce the prospect cost of acquiring Soto can’t be thrilled by that declaration, but it’s the sensible course of action for Rizzo and his staff to take if they indeed follow through on a Soto trade — be it this summer or in the offseason. Rizzo did candidly acknowledge that the Nationals are discussing trades involving Soto and appear to have legitimate interest from several other clubs. Whether a team will meet a historic asking price (reportedly as many as six prospects and/or young big leaguers), of course, remains to be seen. Unsurprisingly, Rizzo did not offer any specifics pertaining to ongoing Soto discussions.
“When we offered Juan this contract, with his agent’s knowledge, we told him when the deal was turned down, ’We’re going to have to explore all our options,'” Rizzo continued. “That’s all we’ve ever said. I wouldn’t be doing my job if I didn’t explore all the options now presented to us. We’ve got pretty good options. We’ve got a talented Juan Soto for two and a half more seasons. That’s Option A — it’s a good one. But we also have to think about options B and C. My job is to make this organization a consummate winner again, like we did from 2012 to 2019. I have to figure out ways, as the caretaker of this franchise, to make us a championship organization for a long time to come.”
Taking a step further back, Rizzo lamented that his team’s reported 15-year, $440MM extension offer to Soto became public. The GM stated that it “unequivocally” was not leaked by him or other members of the Nationals front office.
“[The leak] didn’t help us in anything we were trying to do,” said Rizzo. “It didn’t help us keep a good relationship with Juan, and it didn’t help us with any kind of leverage at the trade deadline. So it really hurt us that the information got out.”
Speaking further on the matter, Rizzo acknowledged that while reports of prior extension offers to Soto had contained inaccurate terms, the reported 15-year, $440MM terms of his team’s latest proposal were indeed accurate. He added that he doesn’t harbor any ill feelings toward Soto for the choice to turn down what would’ve been the largest contract in MLB history, but also pushed back on suggestions that Max Scherzer’s $43.33MM annual value should have any bearing on the AAV in a potential Soto deal. As Rizzo points out, a short-term deal for a 37-year-old pitcher is an entirely different beast than a 15-year offer to a 23-year-old who still has a pair of trips through the arbitration process remaining.
There was, of course, no firm declaration that Soto would be traded. Rizzo emphasized that the Nats are “going to have to get the deal that we want … that gets us the opportunity to become a championship organization faster than not trading him.” On the Lerner family’s looming sale of the Nationals franchise, Rizzo stated that the potential ownership change “has not factored one bit into the decision-making process.”
Fans of the Nats and virtually any other team will want to check out the whole interview, as Rizzo’s candor is both fascinating and uncommon among current baseball operations leaders throughout the league. Beyond the Soto drama, Rizzo also discusses the team’s recent draft, his respect for and relationship with the Boras Corporation, the broader state of the team’s ongoing “reboot,” and the confidence he has in his plan to engineer a swift turnaround for the organization.
This is not the NHL. There is no reason to get “cap space”.
No “Cap” space needed in the context of a literal cap. However, there could be a need depending on deals made to get space to keep the total payroll under tax penalties. So same but different.
Yes you will, or we won’t trade with you.
I can’t read all the comments below to finds out, but…
For weeks there was no talk of attaching a bad contract along with Soto’s in trade. Then 3-4 days ago a big story that teams HAD to take on Corbin to get Soto’s. Hundreds of posts since then accepting that as fact. Whoops…..now teams don’t have to accept a bad contract….or at least, that’s todays story.
This happens with all these rumors. And when the transitions are over and done with and agents, FO members, and players speak, we find out that all we were getting worked up about had little to do with the way the negotiations were proceeding. Like politics, pretty much par for the course.
Rumors on a website with the word rumors in the name…imagine that.
Of course.
Nothing wrong with reporting on rumors, it’s just annoying how so many fans think that because something is in a headline it’s an absolute fact. The rumors reported here are, unsurprisingly, rumors. I love that this site has articles on every bit of info that floats about but just wish more readers would understand that rumors are just that: rumors, suggestions, maybes….
LMFAO nobody’s taking that Corbin contract for free bucko
So what? There’s really no reason why they can’t just eat the last 2 years of that contract. Sure, he’s way overpaid, but it’s only 2 years and the Nats are a larger market team who aren’t going to compete in 2023 or 2024 anyways. And heck, at least he can make 25 starts a year. The Strasburg contract is the real problem.
Stras may retire if he can’t come back. I know he’s still owed like $150m and all but it will be interesting to see how often he tries to come back and fail for that money.
@splooz. You are correct. The only player I can remember walking away from a multi year MLB contract in recent history was Gil Meche. That amazed me no players do that.
He’s a relatively laid back guy, already loaded beyond belief, and kinda a team player. I could see some scenario where he doesn’t want to keep trying just for money and the team finds a way to buy him out to retire. Would be smart move for both…if he’s really cooked.
The only way the Nats unload Stras’ contract is if they take on Bobby Bonilla’s.
A few come to mind for me but, I could be wrong…prince fielder, chris carpenter.
Only other guy I can think of is Ryan Dempster and Adam LaRoche
I believe Prince is still getting paid, but it’s getting taken out of an insurance policy so it doesn’t count towards Rangers payroll
“A few come to mind for me but, I could be wrong…prince fielder, chris carpenter.”
those i believe included argained insurance payouts just like david wright i believe as well.
I’d much rather pay Bobby Bonilla’s deal than Strasburg’s. Bonilla gets like one million once a year for the next 13 years or so. You would pay Strasburg more in six months and probably get about the same production on the field.
Gil Meche also. He walked away from $11 million from the Royals.
Though Meche only had one year left on a 5/55 deal.
Would you leave $150 million on the table? No sane person would. Maybe negotiate a settlement if it became clear you could never play again, but until then you get the surgeries the team recommends and rehab as long as it takes.
Did Ryne Sandberg retire early?
Ryan Dempster did it as well
Devin Mesoracco…dont the mets still need a catcher?Didnt he just no thanks and walk away? because the Mets were bad?
Mark McGwire walked away from 2yrs/$30m in 2001,
And Meche left 1/15th of the money people are claiming Stras should leave “because he’s a good guy and a good teammate”
There’s a negative percent chance Stras hangs it up with more than one year left on that deal. Zero is too high… cmon people
Or they can give him and his estate $1M/year for the next 200 years including modest interest.
If he can’t play for medical reasons, he still gets the money a la Albert Belle, which is why they have insurance policies on all their players. The only way he doesn’t get paid is if he’s healthy and walks away from the money.
I don’t know about carpenter but yes On Fielder. If I remember correctly the rangers had to agree to pay Fielder the difference between his insurance payout and his contract also just so he would admit he could no longer play.
Sandberg retired and came back. No idea how the financials worked out.
Obviously insurance policies can vary, but usually, for an athlete’s policy to pay, the player has to at least be attempting rehab and therefore attempting to return to produce value. If he just hangs it up, I’d bet a lot of money the insurance company would fight tooth and nail to pay on that policy
Apparently, since Ryne came back afterwards and killed it.
Strasburg isn’t retiring. That’s just ludicrous. It’s not like the Nats would pay him more if he deserved more and they didn’t have to.
gil was down to his final year when he retired (and despite not having to, the royals still paid him a portion of his final year salary, wanna say around 5 million dollars).
It could still make sense for the Nationals to swap bad contracts, as part of another deal or as a stand-alone. The Nationals are nowhere near the luxury tax cap and can easily take on AAV.
Corbin’s remaining contract costs a lot more than it counts against the luxury tax. A team could get luxury tax relief by taking on Corbin in exchange for higher AAV players who are owed about the same remaining amount as Corbin.
Corbin has 2 years left. Roughly 60 million owed.
I mean in all honesty. I wouldn’t attach Corbin to Soto.
Get maximum value for Soto
Keep Corbin and pray he turns it around either next year or in his walk year.
If he’s having a good season in 2024 they could certainly flip him and cash for prospects since he’s a free agent at season end.
But I wouldn’t attach his money to Soto and bring down Soto trade value.
Nats aren’t competing any time soon. And it’s not like Corbin is sticking around long term to where his contract messes up stuff like a Strasburg who’s got 4 more years.
Yeah, the Corbin thing never made much sense. The rumor last week was that the Lerners wanted to clean up the books before selling the team, but you have to think that any new owner would be just as happy with one of the best farm systems in baseball, assuming the Nats are able to pull off a blockbuster trade.
Eovaldismemes
LMFAO nobody’s taking that Corbin contract for free bucko
—————————-
Thank you for stating the obvious. The plan, for some teams, is to try to lessen the prospect by taking on salary
@Eovaldismemes- I’m not buying a word from Rizzo at all. If someone is absorbing Corbin’s contract the trade with Soto, will definitely be for less prospects coming back to Washington
There you are. Not going to admit you are wrong? Eat some crow? Be a man?
Lol of all the people to call others out for not admitting when they were wrong.
Ironically the Cardinals can use Corbin and with the boat load of great prospects. It strengthens their hand in Soto deal. He eats innings. I think todays performance with the Dodgers will tell alot. Can he go 5 or 6? The Dodgers are out for blood.
Looks like he lasted 5 or 6…..minutes.
Captain Judge floated that nonsense. He knew somebody. Lol
Smart. Losing Soto will be a huge PR hit, but that trade alone may give them a decent core in the next 5 years. Nats are going to get a haul.
Winning will fill the seats.
Nothing fills the seats in DC except opposing fans.
youtube.com/watch?v=B06HrktKbmc&ab_channel=dc…
NLCS. If you can’t fill the stands for that your team is well….the Braves.
@S_man_2014 It’s nice to see the bottom sections packed during the Nats WS run, but let’s be real. Nats attendance is consistently pathetic. To be fair, they have a lot going against them, I get it. Smaller market. Franchise moved from Montreal. Lots of Baltimore fans in the area.
There are 7 million people in the DC metro area. That is not a “smaller market”.
There are almost double that in the Los Angeles metro area…….
Then add that a large portion of those people are transplants from other parts of the east coast with their own hometown team, plus the split with Baltimore.. it’s not a huge market man
@Purple BS. That’s a clown comment. bro.
Biggest myth in sports. Attendance and TV ratings are driven entirely by market size and other factors specific to teams (like where their stadium is or how big a baseball town it is). Success of the team has only a minor impact. Put another way, selling tickets and having high ratings drives success on the field by increasing budget, but the reverse effect is far, far weaker.
The disconnect between success on the field and success on the balance sheet is in fact the biggest elephant in the room facing baseball. It threatens the whole sport.
Interesting theory.
Everywhere I’ve lived – from a large market city to a mid-market city to a small market city – got higher attendance when they were winning, more viewership on TV, and sold far more hats, shirts, and jackets which could be seen on people walking around all over town. Of course, when the team was in the dumper tickets were easy to come by as attendance went down, TV viewership went down, and hats, shirts, and jackets of the local MLB team seemed to be disappearing from view when walking the streets.
But that’s probably just me and the cities I lived in.
@seamaholic 2 The factors you pointed out are certainly key ones, but success certainly is at play as well. For example: Phillies were selling out stadiums almost every game from 2008-2011. From 2013-2017 place was a ghost town.
Mets
Lmfao
Wouldn’t trade them Scherzer last year, but sure genius, they’re going to trade them Soto. Clown.
Seems like this makes it less likely that he will be traded this summer. I wouldn’t be shocked if Preller or DiPoto slug a double espresso and offer like seven players, but not attaching Corbin probably limits the pool of suitors who will be able to meet the asking price.
The most important thing for WAS right now is stocking the system. They can’t buy their way in and one guy won’t carry them back, so this trade is the shortest road to the top.
And in a way this announcement makes it easier for Preller since he’s already looking at money problems. Rizzo has the payroll room to take back Meyers’ contract (for example) and ask for even more prospects. WAS won’t be spending much until the herd of new faces starts arriving so they can continue to pay Corbin and Stras and anyone else until then. The checks from MLB will cover the bad contracts until the new owner and players emerge in a couple years.
If this were a normal non-Soto deadline, it would make plenty of sense for the Nats to stock up by taking on the likes of Myers, Lamet or even Hosmer. But I can’t even imagine the haul they would get if those contracts are attached to Soto. The Padres top 10 prospects + a major leaguer or two?
Yes instead of 6 or 7 prospects, SD will throw in Myers or Hosmer so they can send 7-9 prospects, instead. Makes sense!
Well you’re right, it didn’t happen. But I’m right in that they tried and only Hosmer stood in the way. I remain amazed.
A trade that involved both Soto and Corbin would be much more complicated. This makes it simpler. Soto for 4 of your top 10 prospects and a couple need to be elite and MLB ready.
Well, I was wrong. Its not going to take that much. The Sale trade is a clear precedent and is about what Soto will bring in trade.
Soto for Acuna
No
Why try to dump Corbin. With the way he has been pitching he could help lock the top pick.
There’s a lotto starting next year I believe. Worst record probably can’t fall past 3rd or 4th pick but not guarantee 1-1 anymore.
The worst team can’t fall past 7th place. The first 6 picks are lottery picks and all 18 non-playoff teams are in the lottery. It is a weighted lottery of course so the worst 3 teams all have the highest (same) odds of landing the top pick. Once the first 6 picks are set via lottery, picks 7-18 go in order of worst remaining record to best remaining record.
And the lottery only applies to Round 1. Rounds 2 and beyond, the team with the worst record gets the top pick in each round.
It’s starting to look like this whole thing is posturing by the Nats. I wouldn’t completely rule it out but I don’t see Soto going anywhere.
Oh he’s definitely gone. But it’s unlikely in the next week. In the off-season there will be a full on auction and the teams destined to be involved are already moving pieces around to be able to have the high bid.
do teams hold pat at the deadline and save their prospect capital for this offseason in the event that soto isnt traded at the deadline but is expected to be shopped then?
This offseason I believe teams can trade their new 2022 draft picks. Under the new CBA I don’t think they can’t offer them now, even as a PTBNL.
there may be one or more teams who have a limited number of elite guys and if they don’t get Soto but instead get Castillo(just an ex), they could be forced to cut into their Soto offer
But Soto is such an outlier, teams will offers guys only for him that they’d otherwise happily play the year out with, and then negotiations can re-convene in the offseason. Let’s say the dodgers. Gavin Lux and even Dustin May could be very attractive to the Nats. Maybe LA offers them as part of a Soto deal, but otherwise? I doubt they get moved
Someone said it below as well, off-season you can trade your recent draft picks. So it opens a lot more prospect capital for the Nats to consider
If the $440 million extension wasn’t leaked by the Nationals front office it had to be Soto or Boras. There’s been rumors for years of Boras telling teams of unknown teams bidding against teams…
Agreed. and why didn’t we hear what Soto/Boras countered with?
It was clearly ownership… Rizzo chose his words wisely
Exactly Wadz, GM’s do posturing like this all the time. Anyone who believes Rizzo should buy my beach front property in Arizona. If boras leaked it Soto should fire him because it did Juan a huge disservice.
You can believe Rizzo and it still could have been the Lerners who leaked it.
It doesn’t have to be Soto or Boras. Soto was visibly upset that the offer leaked and clearly unhappy about having to discuss it. Rizzo was asked specifically about Boras in the Junkies interview and he at no point accused him, instead talking about how he’s probably negotiated 100 contracts with Boras over the past several decades and has the utmost respect for him.
Nationals ownership, a non-Boras employee at Boras Corp, a family member/teammate/confidant of Soto with whom he discussed the offer… there are plenty of origin points for a leak like this. They don’t all have to be from the GM, the agent or the player.
Obviously, sure, it could’ve been Boras. But Boras also likes making money for his clients and probably doesn’t relish the idea of irritating a GM/ownership group (even an outgoing ownership group) that have historically been one of his strongest relationships.
Come on Steve.
It could theoretically be anyone who leaked but it only helped one side of the negotiations look better in many fans eyes. The Nats.
@metsfan / right on. We may never know the source of the leak, however the mere fact that Soto turned down the largest contract proposal in MLB history, clearly is a PR snafu for the player. The buzz of course is his big headed greed. It paints the Nats as benevolent in their more than generous offer, and validates listening to offers for said player. Note that Boras has been careful not making a counter offer, probably for fear of not scaring off any potential buyers, and to protect the player from further public scrutiny. Boras will get him the largest contract possible. Short of injury risk, there is no need for the player to do anything but play out the season.
If, and that could be a big if, what Rizzo said is true that he told Soto’s side that turning down their offer would cause the Nats to consider their trade options, then Boras could very well have leaked it. Even without telling Soto, just to help gin up the frenzy for Soto’s services.
Rizzo’s public comments should normally be treated as corporate PR spin, but I believe he’s a straight shooter with his players and the other pros he deals with.
Figured. Swallowing some veteran contract that didn’t work out is the dream of all high budget teams trying to steal talent for nothing. But it rarely actually happens. Last time I remember it coming into play was when the Dodgers took David Price as a way to grab Mookie Betts, but that didn’t lower the cost all that much. This was always a fantasy for the rich teams, not least because the Nats are not a low budget organization and can pay Corbin and/or Strasburg without blinking.
Nope. If you want Soto you gotta come hard with TONS of prospect and young major league talent. You don’t do this without going all in.
The Dodgers did it by picking up Josh Beckett and Carl Crawford’s awful deals along with a slightly older, but still very good Adrian Gonzalez. They gave up VERY little in return. Much less than the Betts deal.
It pretty much was the main reason the Red Sox were able to secure the 2013 World Series title.
If you think Verdugo and Downs were actually equivalent to Mookie’s value, idk what to say…
The nats are gonna get a all time haul for Soto if they do the smart thing and trade Soto without Corbin ! As long as the thirsty padres are in the bidding no team is keeping any of their top two prospects and it will still cost a lot more then that ! Think double and some more compared to what nationals got last year for a half year of fog eye and trae turner ,
To be fair, none of what the Nats got for Scherzer and T.Turner are tearing it up so far, (Still plenty of time for those four though.)
None of the guys they get for Soto may work out but they are definitely getting the top two prospects and some from whatever team lands Soto ! Guaranteed! No team has any leverage
To be fairrrrr.
Of course they SAY that, but that’s because they know and we know (including the Mets) that they want to move bad money w Soto. It’s all talk.
I haven’t heard any concern for his drop in BA. Shouldn’t that worry potential buyers a little?
There’s a reasonable explaination behind it. He has a .245 batting average on balls in play this year. In 2018-2021, he had a .330 BAbip. No major dip in his hard hit rate or exit velocity. If his BAbip stablizes to .300-.320, he’ll go back to being a .280-.300 hitter.
Cool. Thanks for the info
BAbip tells part of the story, re. BA. But also….with such a weak Nats line-up, he is getting fewer good pitches to hit. Put him with Machado and Tatis in SD or Guerrara, Bichette and Springer in Toronto, or Goldschmidt and Arenado in StL and so on, then the BA will go up. Also, RBI’s are down because the folks ahead of him aren’t getting on base. Based on measurements of Wins Above Replacement, he is doing just fine this year.
Yeah, Bell, Soto, and Cruz are the only hitters on the Nats with a league average or better OBP.
Look at the Dodgers line-up. They have three decent hitters. Betts, Freeman and Turner. Lux has zero power. The rest are ass.
Really? Will Smith is ass? Easily a top 5 catcher in the game, probably higher. Lux’s .370 OBP as a 24 year old in the 9 hole is ass? JT has been a .300 hitter the last 2 months, .800 OPS the last 3 months. Guess he’s ass too.
Seems that at least 6/9 aren’t ass, and I’m not trying very hard. Add in Muncy’s track record and Cody’s CF defense… you’re complaining about a whole lotta nothing
His OPS+ is 156 right now. That is exceptional. There is no one in that lineup so he is getting the Harper treatment and teams are pitching around him.
Wasn’t it Bob Nightengale who first reported that the Nats wanted to attach Corbin’s contract to a Soto trade? Figures; that guy is wrong more than the weather folks.
The narrative was that the Nats were highly motivated to move Corbin to clean up the books a little for a prospective new owner. These Rizzo comments seem to discredit the importance of that idea.
That narrative is probably pretty bunk. People that care about the books aren’t really capable of affording sports teams anymore. They’re like pieces of art…if one comes available and you can afford it you just try to buy it.
Just because you make it doesn’t mean you have to waste it. They care about the money. You don’t buy/sell a team for any other reason than money
I’m sure that any new owners wouldn’t want to have their first move be to trade Soto. Optics.
The weather isn’t wrong, predictions of the weather can be.
It was probably accurate then, and since then, every team has used that as a reason to hold back their best prospect, or reduce that 5th or 6th guy… so Rizzo goes public and tries to make a stronger statement than whatever he could try to pass as fact in a one on one convo. And hope the willingness to go public with it shows suitors he is serious and has ownerships blessing to do this without Corbin
It’s ALL posturing
Does this mean that the whole “clear the books before selling the team” rumor was total BS?
You might remember that this GM is the same guy who said he had no intention of trading Soto.
Lol. Good point. Even if he’s honest, the truth changes if he changes his mind.
Possibly, or they could be backtracking bc they don’t like the offers they had.
But even then it was the truth at the time
It Is pretty surprising how honest and forthright he is in this interview. Gotta respect that. I was very skeptical that Soto would actually be traded at this deadline, but now it sounds as if he will.
You’re assuming he’s being honest. That’s a big assumption.
@Fred: You’re right. There’s absolutely no reason to believe that anything that ever comes out of Rizzo’s mouth is honest. He’s an extremely high-level wheeler-dealer businessman. Keeping his job and keeping his family rich for generations to come are his only concerns, not honesty and morality.
In fact, perhaps like most if not all pro sports owners are top execs, Rizzo the “Italian” is just another charming farbrecher who was literally groomed his entire life to be a big-time corporate player.
I believe he will be traded and Noel1982 is right. Soto will command a teams top prospects. The main reason I believe Soto is gone at the deadline is look at the team right now (especially pitching). I for one cannot wait to see the Nationals prospect return.
I’m not so sure about that. Not attaching Corbin may make a Soto trade easier for the likes of the Padres, Mariners, etc. but probably makes it more difficult for the Mets, Yankees, Dodgers, etc. They all have solid farm systems but how deep are they going to cut into the active roster? The Yankees and Mets…are they willing to trade their top 8 prospects for Soto? At least the Dodgers can offer Lux.
No they are definitely getting the top two prospects from whatever team lands him ! Lock it up ! No team has leverage over nats none
I think it will be more like the top 5 prospects + a major leaguer or two. A team like the Yankees may be too prospect poor to get Soto now the trade won’t be diluted.
Not one of the top 5 prospects! Try the top two prospects and then some ! There is no precedent! The lindor and betts trade aren’t comparables at all ! Soto will get more value then both of those deals put together without question
Bro, I mean like all five of the top five prospects. I’m right there with you. Like if it were the Padres it might be Abrams, Gore, Hassell, Merrill, Wood and maybe one more.
The padres being in any bidding for stars is the greatest gift to any team selling a star ! Padres come off as thirsty
Abrams, Gore, Hassell, Merrill, Wood and maybe one more.
================================
Not happening for 2 years 2months of control. Devers has 1.2 years of control with a 4.2 bWAR while Soto has a 3.5 WAR with 2.2 years left. So let’s say Soto is worth twice as much. If the RS could get Abrams plus either Hassell or Wood, I’d drive Devers to SD myself.
That’s 3 potential playoff runs ! They might not get all the top 5 padres prospects and they might not want gore bc of a possible arm injury but all three of Abrams, Hassell and wood plus more are likely! There’s not one team that has a lick of leverage over nationals right now !
It’s true the padres don’t have any leverage whatsoever! If they get Soto it’s bc they paid through the roof ! This isn’t a betts or Lindor situation! Nats can get all three of Abrams wood and hassell for sure plus more ! Again padres don’t have any leverage! Nationals if they where smart would take Myers to get a even bigger haul
The Padres may not have leverage, but if that’s the best offer anyone makes, the Nats’ only option is to hold Soto and take less for him later. 2+ years of Soto is worth more than 2 years or less of Soto.
@abc123baseball- the Pods would absolutely nuts to make a trade like that without signing Soto to an extension lst, and not having to take Corbin or Strasburg back. If they can do that, then I offer 4 top prospects in my top 10. Taking back these expensive non productive pitchers is a no go for me.
The Padres most definitely don’t have the leverage to get him in a trade where they immediately let out how little they gave up to get him ala Todd Frazier! Lol
If and when they get him the other teams fanbases will definitely say I’m glad my team didn’t pay that price ! Ditto for any team that gets him ! They are getting a haul
A couple of solid prospects and a couple of flyers is what Josh bell by himself is getting
@Joe Brady
Thank you for being the voice of reason.
Chris Sale was traded to the Red Sox with 3 full years of team control in his prime. That sets a clear precedent.
Because there is a precedent, the return on trading Soto is going to be similar what the White Sox got for Sale. 2 top 100 prospects and 2 other players Sale was traded in early December 2016 for Moncada, Kopech, Basabe, and Diaz.
Here is the prospect ranking the 2016-2017 offseason after the trade.
mlb.com/prospects/2016/top100/
Moncada was ranked #7. Kopech was not listed on that MLB top 100 prospects list, but was ranked #89 by Baseball America at the time. Neither of the other two were in either teams top 30 prospects.
So you tell us what that would mean in terms of Padres prospects and players. I will get it started. Abrams who was the #6 overall prospect in baseball when he was called up.
Thank you for being the voice of reason.
=================
There are kind of formulas for these things. Some people think that the shiny objects are unique and unprecedented. Soto has 2.2 years left, at even a generous 7 WAR, that is only 16+ WAR. There are a huge amount of players that will generate 16+ WAR over their control years. If, for example, you were trading for Rutschman’s 6.2 remaining years, he’s be worth double what Soto is worth.
Pads Fans
Chris Sale was traded to the Red Sox with 3 full years of team control in his prime. That sets a clear precedent.
=================================
I’d argue that Sale was worth a lot more. Three years @ $13.5M each is a lot better than two years @ $25M+. each. And talent-wise, while Soto is real good, there are other players at his level. Sale was coming off of 5 years where his lowest CY finish was 6th.
And this is just imho, but I think they sold slightly high on Moncada & Kopech.
Like I’ve posted elsewhere, if the Nats wound up with Abrams, Hasell & Wood, they’d have done pretty well.
That’s what I think the deal would look like ! If the nats where forward thinking they would take Myers for the rest of the year to get a little more back
The teams that loss out on Soto might end up winning in the long run. The deadline is the time to bolster your team, and eliminate any weakness. If pitching is your weakness, Soto might be the answer. Good pitching beats good hitting!
“ Soto has 2.2 years left, at even a generous 7 WAR, that is only 16+ WAR. There are a huge amount of players that will generate 16+ WAR over their control years.”
That’s all fine and dandy, but if a guy will take 5 years to produce the same value Soto does in 2 years, no, they aren’t worth the same. Soto produces MVP-type value and is 23. That type of impact ability & projection that he could actually improve still is few and and far between
I agree it depends on the time frame. But let’s day that Devers and Soto are exactly the player they are today. Devers has a 4.2 bWAR and Soto has a 3.5.
Do you want two years of Soto’s 3.5, or one year of Devers’ 4.2? I would take Soto because I am picking up an extra 2.8 WAR for one year. But that doesn’t include the salary. So let’s say Soto costs $55M/2 in arbitration, and Devers only costs $20M. Then the extra 2.8 WAR is likely not worth the extra $35M.
There are a lot of factors that impact this, but once a player is down to two years of control, he is not as valuable as some might think.
It’s two and a half years and three theoretical playoff runs! No buyer for Soto has a lick of leverage not one bit ! And that’s just fact not opinion! No if they wait till the off season or next deadline they lose some leverage! But no team will ever ever have any leverage on nats till the deadline of his walk year
I look at it as, how many Octobers am I acquiring? If you’re the elite teams of the league, the Yankees or Dodgers tier teams, who expect to compete in OCT every year, I really only care about playoff runs. So Soto gives me 3 title runs vs Devers 1
Add in Soto is just better than devers Easy Q
With the money Q, stars get paid by great teams. If you don’t like the idea of a guy producing 7 WAR at 17M, or 22M or even 30M for year 3… you prolly don’t deserve to be in that class of elite teams. Reality.
So you have 3 playoff runs in 22, 23, and 24 with Soto.
But you only have one playoff run with Devers in 22 & 23?
Is this one of those rare cases where 1+1 =/= 2?
There is no other hitter at Soto’s level. And don’t try it with HiS bAtTiNg AvErAgE iS lOw!
Nats will be forced to keep him. The less time before Free Agency the less they get back. The guy may be good, but one player is not a team.
I’m a Tigers Fan & offering Skubal, Soto, Torkelson, Jobe & Hill would be an over-pay for Soto let alone adding Corbin to the deal.
In the past 376 games (2 years and 2 months) there are exactly ZERO players that have put up 16 fWAR.
fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&…
Jose Ramirez at 15.9 fWAR and Trea Turner at 15.3 fWAR are pretty close. Soto has 14.1 fWAR over that period.
What? Rutschman hasn’t established himself in the big leagues yet.
Wow, seems like a surprisingly open interview from a GM. Even if everything he said isn’t 100% true, that struck me as way more honest than the usual “GM Speak” we’re used to hearing throughout the league.
What makes you think he’s being any more honest that any other GM and that his comments aren’t more “GM Speak”? Does this really strike you as a credible statement:
‘On the Lerner family’s looming sale of the Nationals franchise, Rizzo stated that the potential ownership change “has not factored one bit into the decision-making process.”’
The decision was made already. The Nationals extension offers were jokes and they knew it. They just needed it to be less of a PR hit so they leaked this last one. They planned to trade Soto all along.
12 years $440 mill is a joke? Rather pricey joke.
It was 15/440 and yes, it was a joke. Soto will earn $60 million the next two seasons in arbitration and will earn much more AAV in FA.
The Nationals offered him an extension that was less in 2023 and 2024 than he will already be making and that was about the same in AAV over the entire contract that he will be making no matter what in arbitration. They were asking him to take a discount to stay in Washington.
Maybe I should have said it was an insult.
It was a fair offer. I was thinking maybe $50M+ for the arb years. That means he has an extension of $390M/13. I think he can easily get the AAV, but I don’t see anyone signing him until age 39. Maybe $35M * 10? But even $35M * 12 is still only modestly more than he just turned down.
I mean, trout is signed thru age 38 with 37M annually coming his way.
Soto is a generational talent and everyone knows it. Add in years are often added to these super long deals to take a sting out of the luxury tax hit… and it’s not outlandish
Paying him 450 million to play well past his prime is no discount.
Why do you think you deserve a discount!?
You want to cap a 23 year old’s entire career earnings. He’ll have 70M+ in the bank before his current control window expires. And again, his BEST statistical comp is Ted Williams. No one else in more recent memory matches his numbers to date on an age basis
If you want to eliminate the (multiple) chances he will have to make hundreds of millions of dollars, you don’t get a discount. What a ludicrous assumption
The man wants to be paid in line with the top 1% of the game. If you really think he’s capping his earnings at 7M less annually than Trout for the next 15 years, when the market only grows, you’re a fool. He’ll make 30M in arbitration in 2024, pretty much no matter what at this point.
Soto is making 17.1M in 2022. There is no way he will earn 30M next year or even in his last year. Next year will be closer to 21.5M & his last year will fall close to 27M, so over the next 2 years, he will make around 48.5M
If he waits to hit Free Agency at age 25, he will not get another 15 year deal. He will be looking at a 10 year deal at close to 40M AAV or 400M Contract plus the 48.5M=448.5M. & goes to age 35.
Nat’s offered him 440M to his age 38.
Good Luck Mr. Soto, Good Luck.
I know Stl needs a Montas or Castillo way more than Soto, but would still love to see them get him.
Seems like whoever gets Soto (if he moves) would have a completely empty cupboard at the end and would only get one present this year.
Most of that cupboard won’t be worth much anyway.
Same argument was made when the Cardinals traded for Marcel Ozuna, would Alcantara and Gallen look good for them now?
This is the smart move. No reason to take a lesser return for Soto just to dump Corbin’s contract. The Nationals aren’t going to be competitive during those two years anyway so why not just stick it out
Looking for some legit feedback here:
If Yankees trade for Soto (just assume they for the question, this is not intended to debate the viability of the trade), then do the Yankees still sign Judge in offseason?
The list of FA outfielders is really slim pickings after Judge.
I’m looking at Judge currently being a lock for NY but this trade could create a ripple effect where another team gets a shot at Judge?
As a Yankee fan I’d say don’t–at least not at $300 mil. The Yankees would be much better off in the long run with Soto but you’d have some fan discontent if Judge signed elsewhere.
I also have a hard time thinking of a team that would want to give Judge somewhere in the $300 mill range at his age. With his size you have to figure he is going to have some time on the IL. Can Judge do this at 38+?
depends if NY wants to be on the hook for over 3/4 of a billion dollars for two players when they already have giancarlo on the books for 25M/yr till 2029 and coles 36M/yr till 2028
if they sign judge and soto you could legitimately say the have 1.4B or so tied up in 4 players which is abt 1/5th the value of the entire franchise.
a bit of an oversimplification but it’s a lot of loot.
Thanks for feedback and pretty much what I was thinking.
A trade to Yankees of Soto could make Judge available to say, the Padres to solve their problem.
It won’t help in 2022 but if Padres could keep the prospects that it takes to get Soto, then have a legitimate shot at signing Judge (hopefully a little south of 300 for reasons cited by Darth), then I’m all for Yankees getting Soto.
As a Padre fan, I’m not liking the idea of trading most of my top 5 for 1 guy. Our top 5 is pretty near mlb ready if you still count Abrams and Gore as “prospects” which I do even though they probably have lost the technical qualification of being on a prospect list.
I’ve been wondering something along those lines myself, if the Nationals and Yankees might look out to San Diego and see if Preller is interested in making it a 3-team deal. I don’t think it’s likely, but that would make for a very interesting trade. Preller might be a bit leery of getting involved with Rizzo again after how badly the last 3-team deal he made with Rizzo went for him.
You know, I actually never thought of the 3 team trade scenario.
If Yankees give up the majority of the prospects and take back Myers or Hosmer, (padres can take on any more salary so something has to go out to take on Judge in 2022) Padres can afford to pitch in maybe a top 10 prospect for 2 months of Judge. Then try to extend him / re-sign him.
Can’t give up too much for just the 2 months though. Basically, Padres pitch in the player required that puts the deal over the top for Nats is my thought.
There was also a thought that a Kyle Finnegan type going to San Diego might up the return a bit, as Finnegan is a cheap, very controllable relief pitcher and teams always need those (think Finnegan has like 3.5 years of control left, he’s still pre-arb) but I’m not sure tying Soto, Judge, and Finnegan in the same deal is the smartest of moves.
I say no unless they can chip in some salary on Stanton’s contract to offload him. Too many big contracts on the books right now. And between Judge and Soto, it’s really no contest which one I’d rather have.
If the Yanks get Soto the Red Sox roll out the carpet for Judge and the Green Monster.
Red saux can definitely seal the deal if they guarantee him free drinks for life at any bawwwl he wants
Face it, Judge is going to the open market and wants to be woooed by a team. The man is classy and any team would love to have him. It will be an all out bidding war, even more so than the Soto sweepstakes imo
Everyone who believes Rizzo didn’t leak that offer or that the potential ownership change has no effect on him is gullible.
Adams loves the candor because he always shills for teams on this website.
If Boras leaked that offer he should be fired because baseball fans have been roasting Soto over the coals for turning down the “biggest contract in MLB history “ while ignoring that the AAV doesn’t represent the top end talent.
Why offer any player 15 years? Bad move on Rizzos part unless he knew the AAV wouldn’t be acceptable and he could play the media to his advantage. I bet Rizzo loves pieces like this that pain him in a good light.
I share your skepticism about Rizzo’s “honesty” that other commenters are buying into. He says it did him no good that the offer got leaked. Really? That didn’t put the onus on Soto if he leaves? That doesn’t give Rizzo and the franchise the opportunity to say, “We gave him a massive offer and he turned it down, so don’t blame us that he’s that greedy”? That doesn’t deflect any fan resentment away from him and the owners?
Exactly it made the Nats look better so if it want them who leaked it they got extremely lucky by the outcome. I’m not so naive to believe a guy who was pounding tables declaring “we aren’t trading Soto” earlier this year.
Fool me once Rizzo
*if it wasn’t them
OTOH, saying that Soto wouldn’t accept close to a half-billion $$$ sends the message that an acquiring team won’t be extending him. The Nats would benefit from the illusion that Soto is signable.
Fink, that is actually Rizzo and the Lerner’s MO. Remember what they did with Harper?
To be honest, I didn’t remember, so I had to research it. Of the $300M offer they made to Harper, $100M of it was deferred until he turned 65 years old!
You nailed it Fink!
This only applies to Corbin’s contract. If they can somehow get a team to take Strasburg’s contract, that’s where Soto is going.
He would need stras to waive his not trade too.
Rizzo, like all good GM’s is probably willing to explore all options but didn’t like the lesser prospect return from attaching a contract. The nats don’t have much future payroll obligations or farm system. It makes more sense to me to trade Soto by himself but that doesn’t mean a Strasburg or Corbin won’t be attached but I see it as less likely.
No one is taking on Stras’ contract, even if they get Soto.
Gosh, the Nats run an excellent organization. It takes incredible discipline to make a hard decision, like trading a star player, and stick to it. Half the teams in MLB would have hesitated and sat on trading someone like Trea Turner for a year or more and lost a lot of value in the process (See Mookie Betts trade).
They’re selling the team. For all we know, the prospective owners don’t want to buy if they’re immediately under pressure to invest half a billion dollars into one player, and they don’t want to incur the resentment of the fan base for not keeping Soto. Trading him first and having the current owners agree to be the bad guys might be a condition of the purchase.
They are NOT getting equal value for Soto. Period!
They are getting a haul period ! No team is keeping their top two prospects no team who gets him ! And the nationals will still loss the trade
Some or you homers sadly are mistaken wanting to use the goldsheet, Lindor , or mookie trades as references to what a Soto trade should look like but nothing in the history of the world ( no hyperbole) has ever Been as apple to oranges then there cases to Soto ! Those guys where all rentals and also not nearly as good as soto ! Soto now would give teams three potential playoff pushes! Guarantee Soto will get as much if not more then all three of those guys got put together
I don’t know if you’ve looked at the Fangraphs WAR rankings lately, but Soto ranks in the 40th tier this year with a 2.4 fWAR. He has the same wRC+ as Alejandro Kirk, in the 15th rank, and Kirk plays a much more valuable position. Since 2020, Soto ranks 6th if fWAR behind Ramirez, Turner, Goldschmidt, Freeman and Judge.
If the metrics have any value at all, Soto is a terrible fielder. As Casey Stengel said: “I don’t like them fellas who drive in two runs and let in three.”
Of course he’s the greatest thing since Babe Ruth because Boras is his client. All Boras’s clients are the greatest thing since Babe Ruth.
yeah this soto talk is getting pretty overbearing. i see much more value in shohei if we are being honest.
So do I.
He’s gonna be a rental, if angels where selling two and a half years of him they could attach rendon and still get another teams top two prospects ! You need to separate rental star trades from guys with like multi years ! Two years of sale a pitcher got the sawks top 2 and 5 th ranked prospect
So you get two more years of a liability in the outfield or a guy who ends up being shifted to a primary DH before he hits free agency. That’s not much of a selling point.
Well it apparently isn’t keeping thirsty teams like the padres from going all out ! And credit to padres for making crazy trade bids with prospects ! The idea of trade collision is a joke that should be punishable by death ( not much hyperbole just some )!
Credit to padres for not prospect hoarding
I wouldn’t cite A.J. Preller as a model of smart management, particularly in regard to trades.
I didn’t say smart! I said good for not hoarding prospects though ! Any team that outbids them is rightfully gonna hurt ! And I’m no nats fan but I rather read about them getting a haul then getting a couple of solid prospects and a couple flyers ! Josh bell alone should get a couple solid prospects and a couple flyers
You are a douchebag for wanting GMs murdered for having a stacked minor league system.
Boras would have spontaneously combusted if Babe Ruth was his client. Kaboom!
What happened to Scott? Babe just hit his 60th home run and and he exploded.
Just this one wafer thin mint?
@Fink: Boras is a primo propagandist and schemer. Pretty much nothing more.
Not those situations, but 3yrs of cheap control on ace Chris Sale is an elite level comp. Soto is actually going to make quite a bit more in arbitration than Sale was locked into at that time WSox were soliciting prospect offers. WSox got 2 elite prospects (Moncada/Kopech)and a couple lesser pieces.
Actually Noel Betts has been a better player and it’s really not close but what makes Soto so unique is his age and his elite hitting. There is also at least an above average chance that Soto finds another gear as he ages. He will demand a huge payout in terms of prospects because of his control and age. I’m only addressing with Mookie because he is an outfielder and a far superior defensive one at that with similar offensive numbers thus overall not counting age he has been superior to Soto.
Fair enough dodgers got two discounts for him as well ! One mookie was a rental at the time and the dodgers took on the Davis price albatross! This is something nationals shouldn’t want to copy
Don’t Mookie this situation get the FARM
Don’t care what they get for the overrated S.O.B (juan soto). at this point- don’t like him. Just trade him for anything- just get rid of him.
Translation: “Other teams told us there was no way in hell they were taking the contracts of Strasburg and/or Corbin”
I’d take Corbin if the rest of the package was right, but not Strasburg.
And I think the real translation is: Our team has more value in a sale with a load of top prospects than with a clean payroll.
Just a ridiculous statement.
If you shed the bad contract, you can redirect the money to a better player.
So, if it makes you feel better, you aren’t “attaching” Corbin. You are acquiring a really expensive free agent this off season, along with whatever else you get for Soto.
They won’t be signing any expensive free agents as a rebuilding team that’s up for sale ! No sorry they definitely shouldn’t and won’t attach Corbin to lower the price of trade for your team ! You’re going to lose your top two prospects and some if you get sotto and you won’t have to take Corbin
The Nats have enough leverage in this process that they can demand a Soto package AND demand that the acquiring team take Corbin. A player of Soto’s caliber just doesn’t get traded.
Mookie, Sale, Trea (if you value defense and postions), Manny Machado, the list goes on.
It’s not Soto’s talent that’s unique, it’s his age and years of control left. Soto hasn’t won an MVP or ROY. He’s a bad defensive player and aging probably hurts those skills even more.
Arenado, Goldschmidt, and Yelich were also huge names at the time of the trades. Clevinger was real big at the time of his trade as well. I’d venture to say we average one unprecedented trade a year. Maybe not as good as Soto, but if Babe Ruth was available, even his value tops out as 2 years + 2 months.
Yeah I misspoke with caliber. I meant value but realize that isn’t obvious. I still think caliber actually holds true but I did mean value. The 2.5 years of control of him is just insane.
Cubs should trade Heyward for Corbin
I actually think it’s going to very difficult to trade Soto without attaching Corbin’s contract. The amount of prospect and young controllable talent that would have to go back would be astronomical. There are a lot of teams that simply won’t have the prospect capital to pull that off. There is almost no chance Soto is traded before the deadline without attaching Corbin they will have to wait until after the season ends and I still don’t see it happening.
I understand that Soto will bring back a huge haul, and he should because he’s a great player. But the guy hasn’t won many awards and he looks human this year. The enormous value Soto possesses isn’t about how great Soto is. It’s more about how many years his new team can control him for. Prospect value is at an all-time high though, as evidenced by so many rumors of teams willing to move controllable talent this deadline, Cleveland, Miami, Detroit and even Washington.
I wouldn’t trade the farm for Soto unless you’re willing to resign him and that’s a limited group that can offer $500 million contracts. Juan has looked human this year and I hope my team stays away
I wouldn’t trade for him unless it’s a sign-and-trade arrangement. And the owner of my team (White Sox) would rather wipe his rear with a red-hot poker for the next ten years than pay out that much.
Fortunately that owner now controls less than 20% of the CWS and he’s 86 years old so you won’;t have to wait another 10 years. This club will be sold and could you imagine the value if Soto was attached.
That depends on who else isn’t. If they trade away Eloy, Vaughn, Kopech, Montgomery, and more, the value may not be as high as you’d think, especially if JR lasts another 2+ years and sees Soto walk away as an FA, getting only a QO pick (if he’s smart enough to offer a QO this time) for him.
Good luck finding a package that works for both teams then. Either the Nats are going to take a lower return than Soto’s estimated value or the other team’s going to completely mortgage its future. If the Nats are firm on this, then I think he stays put for now and is traded this offseason.
Anyone buying the team is going to want talent. Soto likely needs to bring back 2 MLB top 50 prospects and 2 MLB floor type players to be truly equitable. If I’m buying the team I’d rather have the prospects and use Corbin and Strausburg as negotiation leverage.
“Rizzo’s candor is both fascinating and uncommon”
Yes it is considering this is the guy who lied about trading Soto this season.
As he shouldn’t. Anyone who suggested he attach Corbin to a Soto deal is an idiot and doesn’t belong in the baseball world. There is no cap, and who else are the Nats spending money on anyways? Maximize your return for Soto.
Nice user name. MST3K fan?
They’ll be looking for controllable major league ready talent, as opposed to younger prospects, which can seem more like lottery tickets. “quick turnaround” is the catch phrase to the published article, if one can trust the Rizzo quote. Players recently promoted to AAA, and AA are the most desirable, that doesn’t preclude adding on players to stock the farm at lower levels, in addition to guys they can plug and play now.
Nah if he ends up with the cardinals they are definitely losing Jordan walker without question ! They might not even be able to keep Winn! Sorry but non of vader bader, Tyler shaq O’Neil or Dylan tucker Carlson is leading the deal ! They might be a secondary key piece but not the piece
What? No captain99 dude coming on to say he was wrong?
@Pads Fans- not wrong about anything. You are wrong if you think Soto’s signing an extension with the Pads, if they trade for him. And yes, your taking Corbin back in the trade if Soto’s going to San Diego.
What Rizzo meant to say” If you give Washington your 4 top prospects, you don’t have to take back Patrick Corbin” let’s be honest, who ever offers the best trade is getting Soto. Few teams can make this trade, if they have to take back and pay Patrick Corbin also. Stephen Strasburg is going nowhere. My guess it’s between the Yankees and the Dodgers, with the Cardinals and Padres as lesser options but still in play.
Seems to me the Nats are in a tough position here. On the one hand, they have a player with tremendous value that they can turn into a prospect haul. On the the other hand, he’s a Boras client and signing him long-term starts with an offer greater than what was reported. There are very few teams that can or want to pay that much. At the end of the day your trading for 2 1/2 years of control or three shots at a playoff run with Soto in your lineup. How many teams are going to mortgage all their top prospect capital for him?
As a Mets fan, I realize we have no shot at him, but, even if we did, I would not want to give up Alvarez, Baty, and the rest of my top prospects for 2 1/2 years of control for Soto. And realistically, having Soto guarantees you nothing.. The Angels have taught us that having legitimate generational talent on their team for years and recently adding another superstar in Ohtani doesn’t even get you to .500. You have to surround that talent with a good supporting staff. Hard to do when you have over a half-billion dollars tied up in one guy for 15 years.
@jw421- yes Soto is definitely not getting traded to ANY team in the NL East. I don’t care who’ll tell you otherwise. Don’t believe it, all hogwash.
@Pads Fans- If you trust the GM Nats Rizzo you need your head examined ASAP. I don’t believe him for a second. Let’s see what happens. Let me hear your Friar package for Soto, with an without Corbin or Strasburg. (Cheaper trade with one of those pitchers involved)
Just. Admit. You. Were. Wrong.
You gave everyone a hard time after that idiot Nightengale said that Corbin had to be involved, so just be a man for a change. Admit you were wrong.
Just give judge your proposal that can actually beat Miguel andujar , sal fasano, Clint Frazier, and the Brooklyn brawler
@Noel1982- *Jackson Frazier
You’re still talking about Frazier after you were told that he plays for the Cubs franchise?
I did say sal fasano and the Brooklyn brawler! Yes I know what happened with Clint Frazier last year! But it’s still gonna take a little longer to let it go !
Ask PF about his other accounts and about his claim that Luis Campusano’s marijuana charges were reduced to a misdemeanor in January 2021 (and originally he said it was November 2020).
@Pads Fans- c’mon you and @Javia135 are the biggest women on here. Everyone knows that. I would take Bob Nightendale as a source over you any day of the week. Still haven’t heard your Soto proposal yet. I guess you don’t have one. So save that proposal for @Javia135 instead.
“@Pads Fans- c’mon you and @Javia135 are the biggest women on here.”
On top of your silly pose as Aaron Judge you’re also a misogynist?
@Fink Ployed- just keep speaking. You make ZERO sense, your posts are as ridiculous as you are. Get a life dummy. Hope you don’t really look like that? Lolololololol!!!
A really smart team would just wait on Juan Soto for 2.5 years and pay him the $600 million it will cost them, no prospects involved, just $ and picks.
Seems like this really opens the door for teams with stocked farms and tight payrolls. Dodger, Met, Yankee money can’t be leveraged to absorb Corbin and lighten the blow.
Maybe a team like that will sway Rizzo by taking Strasburg’s toxic contract. I might be wrong about how it affects the Yankees, given how cheap Hal has been…
Rizzo might also just be posturing.
@Jonthunder- No maybe’s about it Rizzo is 100% posturing. Probably Strasburg is not going, but Corbin definitely is. So probably a lighter package for Soto. The Yankees should be involved. Dominguez, Peraza, Waldichuck or Wesneski, Schmidt or German, Pereira or Cabrera, Vasquez or Warren, Hicks and Gallo for Soto and Corbin. Get it done Ca$hman!
No team is keeping their top prospect! It just isn’t happening if Yankees dodgers padres or cardinals land Soto all four teams are definitely giving up volpe , Cartaya, Abrams and walker ! No team has leverage over nationals not one bit !
Not necessarily: I think any bidder is going to require the inclusion of 2 top 50 MLB prospects.
VERY few teams can do that without surrendering their top prospect. The Yankees, however, do have 3 in the top 50 and 5 in the top 100.
The NATS minor league system has some soon to be ready pitching, but absolutely no position players above A ball. If your Rizzo, you have to get back some controllable projectable or already proven MLB talent and a prospect(s) that will be starters within a year or two or you have become the new Baltimore Orioles..
It’s simple: don’t trade Soto.
New owners are coming in. They should make this decision. The return on trading potential HOF talent is going to be extremely disappointing. Don’t. Do. It.
The bidders for the team have watched what happened in Miami and likely have all told the Lerners that they want them to take the PR hit from trading Soto so the new owners can ride in on a white horse to save the Nationals franchise from long term doom.
I have been wrong in the past week in saying that Soto would get a teams two top prospects plus more. Chris Sale was traded to the Red Sox with 3 full years of team control in his prime. That sets a clear precedent.
Because there is a precedent, the return on trading Soto is going to be similar what the White Sox got for Sale. 2 top 100 prospects and 2 other players Sale was traded in early December 2016 for Moncada, Kopech, Basabe, and Diaz.
Here is the prospect ranking the 2016-2017 offseason after the trade.
mlb.com/prospects/2016/top100/
Moncada was ranked #7. Kopech was not listed on that MLB top 100 prospects list, but was ranked #89 by Baseball America at the time. Neither of the other two were in either teams top 30 prospects.
For the Padres that would mean something like Abrams and one of Wood, Merrill, or Rosario and then a couple of prospects outside the Padres top 30.
It could also be one or two guys that used to be in the Padres top prospects and exceeded rookie eligibility the past couple years like Weathers.
So something like Abrams. Campusano or Wood, Azocar or Ruiz, and Weathers is at a minimum comparable to what the White Sox received. Many would say its better because Weathers has played in the majors and was a top 100 prospect going into 2020 and Azocar and Ruiz have MLB experience and were Padres top 30 prospects.
Bet you if nationals trade Soto to padres it’s bc they got both Abrams and hassel and more
I stand by Soto alone with get national’s more then mad max and turner got them due to age and control
Used to think that myself until I found out what the White Sox got in return for Sale. That is a clear precedent.
The Nationals can decide to hold onto Soto, but they will get less for 2 years of Soto than they will for 2+ years of Soto, so its highly probable that he is moved by the deadline.
I’ll say two things different from the sale and Soto trade talks is for whatever reason it seemed like Sox where only bidding with these same nationals at first then the Red Sox! For whatever reason there was never a big bidding war! In this case there’s at least four big we’ll funded bidders in padres dodgers Yankees and cardinals ! Not to mention what teams are lurking
Second in free Agency and trades every day players have slightly held more value then pitchersv
The Sale trade isn’t really apples to apples. The Red Sox had just spent $60m to sign Moncada, so he was way more valuable/expensive than your typical top 5 prospect in baseball.
That trade is a really good comparison of how much value was given up for a top of the line player with 2+ years of team control. How much the Red Sox spent on Moncada is irrelevant. They spent that because under the system at the time they could. You can’t today. Moncada’s scouting grades at the time of the trade are relevant. Hit: 60 | Power: 55 | Run: 65 | Arm: 60 | Field: 50 | Overall: 60 He was a great prospect. If you go forward a So how does he compare to Volpe or Abrams? Volpe – Hit: 60 | Power: 60 | Run: 55 | Arm: 50 | Field: 50 | Overall: 60 and Abrams Hit: 60 | Power: 50 | Run: 80 | Arm: 55 | Field: 55 | Overall: 60 Kopech wasn’t even a top 100 prospect on any list except BA at the time of the trade, so that has to be factored in as well.
The director on my last film told me that the seats I share with Dennis Quaid have been requested by the front office of the cardinals. They have a scout at todays Dodgers vs. Nationals game specifically to watch Patrick Corbin’s start. They are willing to trade for him straight up without attaching Soto to the deal. I’m hearing Winn and Liberatore for Corbin with Washington kicking in 2 mil a season
You give new meaning to the term “fantasy baseball.”
Mets owner Steve Cohen to Mike Rizzo: We’ll take Soto and Corbin and the Nat’s get $100 million cash.
That would get vetoed, in a heartbeat.
What if he threw in jd davis dom smith and Octavio dotel ?
Any public statement made by a GM regarding a prospective transaction should be taken with a barrel of salt. They would love to ditch Corbin’s contract and if that’s something another club can offer while still making a competitive offer for Soto, they’ll definitely take it. That being said, at this point, I don’t think a Soto deal happens until the offseason, unless Aaron Judge suddenly has a season ending injury.
noquarter89
Any public statement made by a GM regarding a prospective transaction should be taken with a barrel of salt.
=============================
Too many fans think they are entitled to know the insiders view of the FO. The GM has to do what is best for the organization. The fans have no input.
I always kid around that GMs tell other GMs “if you even ask about Bogaertss, I am hanging up and never speaking with you again. But just for fun, what do you think Bogaerts is worth?”.
That way they could tell the press that they hung up on Preller for even mentioning Bogaerts’ name, while Preller is putting together a list for Bloom to choose from.
Now Trout isdiagnosed with a rare back condition .so he’s gonna have to manage the rest of his career . Yikes
“Costovertebral dysfunction at T5,” Rolls right off the tongue.
You never want to have one of the experts in back injuries tell you that you have something that is rare and that Trout and the Angels wlll have to monitor it the rest of his career.
Terrible news. I recall that David Wright’s career was ruined by spinal stenosis after the Mets had him playing with a fractured spine. I hope Trout’s prognosis isn’t as severe.
I’m glad we can put the whole Corbin/Strasburg attachement to Soto thing to rest. It never made much sense. Also think Soto will get traded in the offseason rather than by the deadline.
I also don’t think it makes much sense to include Bell and Soto in the same package for Washington. I agree, Soto is traded in the off season.
Hmm (checks todays current score: 5:0 nats losing bottom 1 with Corbin pitching) not so sure about that idea…..
Probably the best thing for Trout. Now he can retire and ride off into the sunset like Christopher Reeve
Translation: no one will give the Nats close to what they want for Soto if Corbin or Strasburg are attached.
Its kind of difficult to expect a team to give up 4 top prospects and take on $59 million in salary for Corbin just to get Soto.
Noel1982 keeps saying the Nats have all the leverage but if Boston moves Xander, I’d rather trade for that rental and not empty the whole farm for a future DH.
Plus Soto’s years left are only to go down , decreasing his value and his huge contract demands eliminates many teams from resigning him.
If the Lerners want to sell soon, new owners might not want the stink of trading Soto and it might be better to move him before that sale.
Noel and Rizzo seem to be making the same points but it comes off as homerism
(Noel) and a negotiating tactic (Rizzo).
Teams are hoarding prospects and there’s no way the Nationals get equal talent for a guy like Juan.
Yes Bc even when a team gives up their top two prospects and some which they definitely will the team that gets Soto is definitely gonna win the deal bc no package of prospects is equal value
Now if a team is willing to trade a couple of solid prospects and a couple flyers that can probably get nationals to give up Josh bell
And yes a half a season of Xander will be a lot less expensive! It will definitely cost more then a couple solid prospects and a couple flyers though
The game has changed and teams value prospects more than ever.
Your hyperbolic statements overlook the fact that the Nats aren’t winning any time soon and have one of the worst farms in baseball.
If the Lerners want to maximize value to sell, as reported, they need to deal Soto at his highest value, now or in November.
Nats have no leverage
They have all the leverage right now! Want to know who has zero leverage? The dodgers the padres the cardinals the Yankees ! They are getting a haul!
Again a couple solid prospects and a couple of flyers is definitely what they are gonna get for Josh bell
And yes Josh bell facf not opinion is getting a couple of solid prospects and around two low level flyers ! It pays to be a seller I hope my saux do sell ! We Will get twice more then a couple solid prospects and a couple of flyers for even a half season of Xander ! Even a half season of jd and Nathan will definitely get them a little better then a couple solid prospects and a couple of low level flyers
The losers who are planning on selling the team have all the leverage?
You sound like Rizzo.
Do you work for the Nats? I’ve never seen your comment before but you’re spamming this thread repeating the same tired trope.
For Soto yes ! You are sounding like they are at the point they just gotta get what they can now ! No they are two years from just having to take whatever they can get !
I never said that Noel. Lay off the coffee. Soto’s value only declines as time goes on and the Nats need prospects now or the waste Juan’s value on a team that definitely isn’t winning.
This is the time they can name their price if someone meets it great if not they can hold and re evaluate low ball offers in the off season ! Who knows who the new owners will be maybe they pay up! Time is on their side for a while
All jokes aside in this deadline I predict that a couple solid prospects won’t land a single player who can help a team this trade deadline besides maybe a random reliever ! It’s good to be a seller right now with three wild card teams
They need the best top tier prospects right now and they are in position to get them now ! Later on is when they will have to settle for team prospects around 5 or lower! Right now they can ask for any suitors top two and more for sure
Like I said I’n the Castillo topic ! Castillo alone is gonna get about what you think is fair value for jaun soto !
“ Plus Soto’s years left are only to go down , decreasing his value”
Yeah the only thing 23 year olds who, to date, have Ted Williams-esque numbers do, is decline and decline hard. Yep.
I’ll leave it at this deadline at least is a sellers market for sure !
Guys like bell and Contreras are gonna do much much better then a couple solid prospects and a flyer or two
Castillo will get about as much as some of you seem to think is fair value for Soto an much more the berrios did
And Soto if he’s traded at all will be for a astronomical price though the team that gets sotto still wins the trade
The trade deadline is always a sellers market. That’s why they wait to move players until then to maximize the return. Duh
I don’t believe the team that trades for Soto wins the deal no matter the prospect cost. Soto first off is below average defensively. He is awful on basepaths. Yea he’s only 23yo but this can go bad quick. He’s not having a great year offensively by any stretch so let’s say he’s traded for a teams top 4 prospects and a few young major leaguers and he doesn’t sign and that team doesn’t win in the playoffs which now is a total crap shoot anyways. This trade all of a sudden becomes the nfl version of the Herschel Walker deal! I’m sorry but if I’m giving away my future I’m making sure he’s signed long term at a contract that works for my team. I can’t see any team doing otherwise and that’s why I don’t think he’s dealt for what the Nats rethink they will get! Just my opinion. I for one hour my team doesn’t sell the farm and rather goes after pitching. Pitching wins in the playoffs.
I couldn’t agree more, Billy.
I hope my team stays away from any deal for Soto.
They probably will! The padres will be the team that overpays for sotto !
What are the odds that a Boras client doesn’t test the market? He had Michael Conforto believing he would get a better deal than the QO of $18mil plus. Your getting at best 2 1/2 years of Soto unless you are willing to put up $500 million dollars over 15 years. I’m not sure that many owners and front offices are going to want to commit to that.
@Noel1982
Just an FYI, other forms of punctuation exist. There are options besides exclamation points.
A proud graduate of the Elaine Benes School of Dramatic Punctuation.
Buster Olney on ESPN just had the nerve to compare Juan Soto to Willie Mays and Hank Aaron. Clown talk.
Ted Williams is a better comparison. Both Mays and Aaron played great defense.
I get Strasburg but with Corbin, Soto’s trade value is high enough that they can attach him and still get pretty much whatever they want. In fact trading for Soto without taking a bad contract back is kinda unrealistic.
No, and it is not close. Let’s say Soto gets paid $55M/2 over the next two years. Corbin gets paid $60M over the next two. Assuming that Corbin provides -0- WAR, that means you are paying $115M/2 for Soto’s services.
The crazy think is he’s still worth that.
Ohtani to Giants for Logan Webb, Bart, Luciano, Harrison and Ramos. That should get it done.
Nats don’t want Logan Webb he’s only controlled one year longer than Soto himself.
Ohtani to Giants for- Logan Webb, Bart, Luciano, Harrison & Ramos. That should be plenty to get him. Who says no?