TODAY: The Nationals aren’t planning to increase their offer beyond $440MM, The Washington Post’s Jesse Dougherty writes. Soto is reportedly looking for a deal that is at least a decade long, gives him the most guaranteed money in baseball history, and gives him an AAV at least close to the highest average annual values. In a Twitter thread, Dougherty suggests that the Nats could come closer to Soto’s demands by offering $440MM over 12 or 13 years rather than 15, though that scenario might not be palatable to the Nationals for luxury tax reasons.
JULY 16, 3:04PM: While the Nationals’ offer didn’t have any deferred money, the $440MM was “heavily backloaded” into the offer’s last six seasons, USA Today’s Bob Nightengale reports. The offer’s backloaded nature played a part in Soto’s decision, according to Jon Heyman of The New York Post, and other factors included the relatively low AAV and the uncertainty surrounding the Nats’ ownership situation.
11:21AM: In a somewhat shocking development, the Washington Nationals will now listen to trade offers for transcendent superstar Juan Soto, per the Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal. Soto reportedly rejected a $440MM extension offer, prompting the change of heart on the Nationals’ part.
The Nationals have long held the position that they would not be open to trading Soto, their 23-year-old superstar, who is already firmly listed among the best hitters in baseball. The Nationals have some time to make a decision, as Soto is under team control for another two seasons beyond this one. As of right now, however, the team is among the worst in baseball, and their farm system continues to be understocked.
All that said, the Nats have made consistent efforts to come to a contract extension with Soto’s agent Scott Boras, with no success. According to Rosenthal, the latest such offer – the third offer from the Nationals’ side – was for 15 years and a total of $440MM. Perhaps more shocking than the number itself is that the Nats did not include any deferred money in the deal. The Nationals are well known for deferring money in most of their long-term deals. That they were willing to avoid that practice shows some bend on the Nats’ part, but it was not enough to consummate a deal.
If those numbers are correct, the Nats’ offer would have given Soto an AAV of $29.33MM over that 15-year span, which falls a little shy of some of the game’s top contracts. While that’s nothing to scoff at, it would not be a record-setting number. The total dollar amount would, however, top MLB’s largest contracts.
The deal would have carried Soto through to his 38th birthday, effectively locking him in as a National for the entirety of his career. It’s certainly a large chunk of money to offer, but Soto might not be so ready to put a cap on his career earnings – even such a lofty one. Soto is currently making $17.1MM this season, with another two arbitration raises yet to come in his final two seasons. If he stays healthy, he’ll easily make more than $29.33MM AAV by his final season before free agency.
With their latest offer rejected, the Nats will now spend the next couple of weeks listening to trade offers for Soto ahead of the August 2nd trade deadline. Certainly, given the team control remaining, the Nationals would have to be floored by an offer in order to move him. The likelihood of a deal at this juncture still feels slim. An offseason deal is more likely. Still, interested parties now have a couple of weeks to begin making headway.
It’s difficult to fathom what exactly it would take to pry Soto loose from the Nationals. No matter what the return package, it’s sure to seem light in the eyes of local fans. Soto is the lone superstar and fan attraction at this point. The club has seen the departure of organizational mainstays like Max Scherzer, Trea Turner, and Ryan Zimmerman in the past calendar year alone. Without Soto, the club would be starting from scratch, especially given the state of the farm system. A player of Soto’s stature does not come along frequently, and it’s unlikely they could recoup anywhere close to equal value for Soto.
For the Nationals to deal him, they have to really believe they have no chance of signing him to a long-term contract extension. Perhaps this latest rejection makes that point for them. From the outside, there are certainly ways in which the Nats could improve their offer, namely with a larger AAV, which does seem to be something that matters to players. They have, as is often pointed out, crossed this bridge with Boras before, both in signing Stephen Strasburg to a long-term deal, and in not coming to terms with players like Bryce Harper and Anthony Rendon.
Complicating matters on both sides is the uncertain future of the Nats’ ownership situation. If the Lerners do, in fact, plan on selling the club, keeping Soto on the roster would seem to be positive, almost necessary. A new ownership group would likely rather have Soto than whatever handful of prospects would come back in a deal. And yet, Soto might be disinclined to commit to a new ownership group. How much can the team be sold for if part of the deal necessitates giving Soto more than $440MM? And yet, the franchise has to be far less attractive to potential buyers without Soto as a marketing centerpiece. How intent the Lerners are in selling the Nats might be the crux of this entire situation.
In many ways, it’s reasonable to expect an end to this saga – one way or the other – by the beginning of next season. Unlike a situation like, say, the Cubs had with Kris Bryant, the Nats have no hope of contending at this present moment, which might make them less inclined to suffer the constant trade rumors. When the Cubs held onto Bryant through years of rumors, they were, at least, competitive year-by-year, giving them cause to hold onto Bryant, even if it meant seeing him walk as a free agent. For the Nationals, Soto’s future is the only story in DC until it gets resolved.
For now, it’s going to be a tense couple of weeks for Nats’ fans as they await the trade deadline. Even if Soto stays beyond August 2nd, the trade rumors are going to continue to swirl. The Nationals have to be wondering if Soto’s uncertain future is a tenable situation. If they can’t find the right deal, however, they need to be willing to wait.
Steve Cohen on line 1…….
Rather Soto than Judge, who will be injured for 40% of his next contract. Get it done Uncle Stevie. Baty, Mauricio, Butto, Ziegler should get the convo started…
As a Mets fan I’m telling you you better add more
The one team who could have the parts could be the Jays
I agree 100% but no way Jays can afford, Vlad, Bo and Soto in a couple years. By trading for Soto you would have to let Bichette walk or trade him
You would have to trade vlad or Bo as part of a Soto trade
Jays likely wouldn’t be able to keep Vlad and Bo, with the prospects that are near MLB ready, Bo seems the most likely to get traded anyway. I know this will sound hypocritical of myself but maybe ownership will be willing to spend on Soto and Vlad instead, while having Martinez play short
You have highly overrated Bo.
Did the author of the article have to copy the headline verbatim from The Athletic?
It’s not really a big deal since for the most part all this site does is accumulate other sites’ stories.
Padres could afford the prospects, and with myers coming in off the books, hosmer drops to 13m, several other veterans coming off. They may be able to handle it
I’d say the other San team in the NL West would be a more likely pick as a trade partner. Luciano, Matus and Ramus would be a good starting point.
Or the Yankees: they have the 9th most valuable farm, and the teams ahead of them are already calling up their prospects.
I agree. I’d trade Bo.
hundreds of jays fans just unloaded with those comments. let alone the news that Soto is available….lol
Left power bat. oh boy cue the comments…
Baseball is a team game and other than for a front line starter like Scherzer or Verlander in their prime, these megabuck long term deals never work out. Take any team and evaluate not just the player and the players needed going the other way but what about what Soto type money can do to fill out the roster?
To get Soto I’d trade Vlad. He’s fat and plays first. His body will begin to breakdown because of the weight by age 30. Trade Vlad at his apex which is now, he won’t get better unless he gets smaller. Outfielders with the whole package are really tough to get you can always find a serviceable first baseman though. Vlad and a couple top tier prospects. Blue Jay’s payroll wouldn’t go drastically higher either and they would still be able to look for pitching.
He’ll be a rental in Toronto.
More than half for position players work out. If they didn’t, teams would not make them.
Rodgers sports network wouldn’t be able to??
Betts is the only mega player to win a world series as a position player, these big contracts just don’t work out for most teams!
Glad you and the other 3 Jays fans who agreed with you by giving a thumbs up think so……whats you pipeline into Rizzo’s house that tells you exactly who and what he. would only want in the Jays organization say about this in more detail please!
@king – so was Babe Ruth.
Lars, you’re here reading and commenting, so you must find value in the site.
@Al Hirschen- and why not the Yankees? Dominguez, Peraza, Schmidt, Pereira, Waldichuk, Wesneski, and Aaron Hicks, seems like an excellent trade for both teams.
Cap, the Nats’ have no use for Hicks.
@gbs42- sure they do. He can play the outfield until Dominguez is ready. They can take on the few years on his contract. Then the Yankees sign Mr. Soto for 12 years, $540 million. ($45 million annually) and a club option for a 13th season.
@Al Hirschen- no way the Nationals are trading Soto to a team in the NL East. It’s definitely not happening sir.
Not sure I’d trade Vlad straight up for him considering what you’ll have tp pay Soto. Swapping out one mega star for another doesn’t make them that much improved.
Vlad is far from a mega-star…have you looked at his stats lately? Did you see he had a ball TWICE go thru the webbing of his glove because he doesn’t know how to take care of it??? That’s something only seen in Little League. And he needs to lay off the tacos.
Vlad is better than Soto
It’s impossible to say which one will have the better career. Still, Soto has been the better player so far.
@Padam Remember Prince Fielder….That is whom Vlad reminds me of…was awesome like his dad for a few years then got injury problems because he was fat, got fatter with time off and lost the ability to hit and became an albatross contract. Vlad is still too damn big, Babe wasn’t as big as these boys and the pitchers also did not throw 97+ consistently with movement in Babe’s day. So in Babe’s day very few people were working out training you can’t get away with that now.
ARod did also..
Lars, you must be such a research whiz.
bucs… You must’ve skimmed their headlines cause if you’re subscribing to the Athletic and not this site, you’re over paying.
This whole site is a copy and paste. It has no real journalism but that is pretty much every site besides the athletic
marte, in what way is Vlad better than Soto?
Zaidi will never agree to take on a Soto contract ($$$$ and years) nor give up Luciano, Matos and Ramos.
Zaidi doesn’t want a superstar player. He would rather have platoon players and continue dumpster diving.
Jordan, you must just read the headlines or maybe the first paragraph. The writers here dig into many transactions in a lot more detail than just copy and paste.
No, but they do work out in making 100s of millions for the team in profit. And that’s why they keep making them
@dewey This is common belief amongst fans, and you have a point, but when doing deep dives, I think these mega contracts actually work out about 50% of the time. Of course you’re going to get underperforming stars at the end of these contracts, but was the front end worth it? That’s really the debate.
So why pay for underperformance? Why not just sign contracts that aren’t overpays? Why fall into the myth that every team needs one such contract in order to win? Sure, if you convince yourself that overpaying for performance is ok, then you’ll think these deals work out.
Cosmo, teams underpay for overperformance the first 6-7 years of a player’s MLB career. Why not just pay them appropriately during those years? And the first few years of mega contracts tend to be underpays even at $30M+ per season. Why would anyone expect teams to “win” on every contract every season for every player?
Anyone but dodgers please im huge fan of t turner I’m hoping we can sign him long term which is gonna be very hard how can we think about signing him and giving Soto a deal like that I think he will go to one of the new york teams unless turners doesn’t resign and they know 100 percent he won’t them maybe dodger will be in if not they step out of trading for him
I don’t agree with the premise that they are underpaying in the first few years. Sounds like some sales pitch an agent is tossing about. I don’t buy it in the least, these players are payed PLENTY in the early years of these deals.
If you replace Hicks with Torres, then it may be a fair trade for both sides.
hi
Soto has been the better player? I don’t know about that.
Hard for me to believe that if Nationals offered $36 million per year (with a $3 million payment every month) that Soto would turn down a 12 years deal for $432 million with a player option for a 13 year at $8 million = $440 million.
Dodgers could offer Cartaya, Vargas, Busch, and Miller. That would get it done. But if Busch and Vargas replace Muncy and Justin Turner, and Cartaya is a backup catcher and DH in two years, I have to think Soto is not worth it, Sign Judge as a free agent to replace Trea Turner. Accept that fact that Judge will be a DH toward the end of the contract and may age poorly. Reap the benefits for the next half dozen years.
C Smith
1B Muncy/Busch
2B Lux/Taylor
SS Taylor/Lux
3B J. Turner/Rios/Vargas
OF Betts
OF Soto/Judge
OF Bellinger/Vargas/Free agent
P Urias
P Gonsolin
P Buehler if not injured
P May if not injured
P Kershaw if not retired
P Try to resign Anderson
Manny,
I think Bellinger is going to be non-tendered this winter. I can’t see the Dodgers being willing to pay him another $17M+ to hit this poorly again next year.
Congrats. Have never seen a 75 word sentence before. You should be proud.
So you are saying Alonso who literally made more in 2 days of the homerun derby than 5 years as a baseball player isnt underpaid? The MLB union has probably made more off his jersey sales last year than he had made in his career up to that point.
While they are taking steps to fund minor league players and pre arbitration players better and make the conditions better for them they are still not paying the better players the amount they are bringing back to the league.
Dodgers don’t need Soto. They need reinforcements in their rotation and bullpen.
That would be the first non-intentional walk for Bo
To be fair, I did say it would “get the convo started”. Definitely would require more, no doubt.
All I’m saying is, now that his contract demands are out there, there are very few teams that would be willing to give up assets AND pay for that contract. NYY, LAD, SF, NYM… maybe a few others?
Trade him, please trade him. That paycheck will drain many teams from improving. Folks, we’re talking $1/2 billion Someone please draw a line in the sand or BB will surely see it’s demise. It’s the Roman Empire all over again
Agreed. These ever increasing salaries are unsustainable. (And the low level workers are still underpaid).
The small market Padres have two $300 million deals and its not keeping them from improving. Every team in MLB can afford Soto. 14 teams have enough revenue to consistently field a $230 million per year payroll without effecting profitability .
Books is right…. Bargaining power is diminished when the player comes with Boras an a half a billion dollar bill… at this point he’s worth 2.5 years of expensive arbitration with no guarantee that he’ll sign…. 2/3 of the league has no interest paying players that make his arbitration
I recall well when some of the first players were paid one million per year, many said it was unsustainable. It seemed outrageous and a little preposterous at the time. I’m not sure there’s a ceiling. As long as the mega TV money is there, who knows how huge salaries will get.
He certainly isn’t worth 29 million a year
It’d be more like Alvarez, Baty, Mauricio, Ramirez…
It won’t be Boston, if anything they want to shorten contracts to have more flexibility you can check them off. I think a trade is made in the off season….Yankees will let Judge walk and they try to get Soto…Mets will get Aaron Judge this off-season. Yankees will replace Judge with Soto….
martevious, I agree. He’s worth a lot more than that.
Nonsense
It is keeping them from improving when one of them gets into a motorcycle accident, breaks a wrist and waits several months before getting it looked at.
You have to put guys around Soto too. The Angels prove that having 2 really good players and then 50 feet of crap isn’t a winning formula.
believe, Tatis didn’t “wait several months before getting it looked at.” Padres physicians couldn’t examine his wrist because of the lockout.
harambe, you mean like in 2019, when the Nationals won the World Series?
The 2019 Nationals had a pretty great team all around.
He said started!
Yeah, Alvarez would have to be in there too, but unless Soto can play multiple positions at the same time, I can’t see them completely depleting their farm while they already have some big contracts and will have to try to re-sign their own stats in the next couple years. Cohen may give the impression that he doesn’t care about the luxury tax but I can’t see him pushing closer and closer to a billion dollar payroll (at least over 2 or 3 seasons).
I’d be asking for Alvarez, Batty Vientos Peterson and you take Corbin
I don’t think Mets would do it
You going to have 2 young top prospect catchers on the same team? What do you do with Ruiz? Mauricio is more valuable to the nationals as they do not have a ss for the team as i believe they moved a 2nd baseman to cover ss.
Im curious to see if Soto / Boras may make a stink if Soto goes to a team that Soto name may not shine as bright like the angels with trout and ohtani, phillies with harper, judge with yankees, alonso lindor and scherzer with mets.
Ruiz has been a disappointment. Luis Garcia is a second baseman so you are right.
believe, Ruiz is a young catcher. It’s far too early to declare him a disappointment.
Can’t give up 5 prospects or more plus Soto wants $30-$40 mil a year, with big money players already and Alonso will soon make bigger money and they need to fix up the bullpen they can’t or shouldn’t sign another $30+ mil player
Whether the Mets should sign Soto (and Alonso) is a reasonable question, but they certain can afford to.
Maybe, but most of these proposals are ridiculous: 3, 4, 5 of the team’s best prospects for a 5-6 win DH who is already painfully slow, and for the privilege presumably of signing him until he’s nearly 40 to the most expensive contract in history?
Even that contract without all the talent leaving the team would be a ‘heads we lose, tails we break even’ sort of deal. Factor in the talent departing and it’s absurd.
Oh yeah 100% I’d take 1 Soto over 2 Judges.
Judge is the better player. So you’d take one worse player over two better players smh.
@zonedeads
Lol Soto is the consensus 2nd or 3rd best player in mlb. But sure go ahead and take your 30 year old injury prone outfielder over a 23 year old on base god who is a once in a lifetime player. You have to be trolling right?
Is he really though? I’d say he’s way overhyped
Judge, right now? Yes.
Judge, for the next 10-15 years? Not likely.
He’s only the 3rd best right fielder in his division how could he be the 2ndbest player in the league?
Lets look at the numbers.
30 yrs old and about to start declining in performance with a career 153 OPS+ and asking for 10/360
or
23 yrs old with a career 160 OPS+ and asking for 12-14 years with an AAV above $30 million
Both will be a DH within 3-4 years.
This is kind of a no brainer. Soto hits better and is 7 years younger.
And the person who actually brings the stats to prove their point wins!
Soto quite clearly wants Rendon AAV+
So you can’t really put 10/360 for Judge like it’s an insane number without mentioning Soto’s price tag is like likely 14/504
Both are equally gross…
I don’t have a dog in this fight, but looking at the numbers, I see a far more complex picture than you do. Judge’s number are more consistent whereas Soto’s number are not. Soto hit a really high peak in 2020, the short season, and has declined significantly in the last two seasons. From 2020 to 2022, his average is down .104, OBP down .085, SLG down .205, OPS down .290 and OPS+ down 57 points. Any GM has to wonder which Soto are they getting, 2020 or 2022, is it 2022 a blip or a downward trend, how much is his 2022 performance worth?
3rd best in his division? How high are you? Last full season he had a .465 OBP. You know how hard that is? And a 177 OPS+and he’s “overhyped”? Soto plays for a rival team and I still give him the respect he deserve. But yeah give me the “overhyped” “third best RF in his division” with the .465obp please. Jesus christ, he hasn’t even hit his prime years yet. Oh, and guess what? The “overhyped” Soto is improving on defense too. Last year Soto was in the 90th percenti
Soto, this year, isn’t a top-10 player in the league, and even at his best, he’s only a bat. He’s not great defensively. He’s not a great baserunner. His value lies in his ability to hit, and what’s he hitting right now–.240?
By fWar, Soto is the 52nd best player in the league this year.
Agreed. Siri is good but overrated.
His on base percentage is high because he walks a lot. He isn’t supposed to walk, he’s supposed to drive in runs.
His best year was 2019 when everyone was having career years. He hasn’t proven that he can be consistently good
SaintChris, an argument based on batting average – especially half a season of BA – is a weak argument. fWAR is better, but again, it half a season. He’s a 23-year-old stud hitter.
“He isn’t supposed to walk, he’s supposed to drive in runs.”
Is this Mary Brennaman? He said the same thing about Joey Votto, future Hall of Famer Joey Votto.
Soto walks a lot because he refuses to swing at bad pitches. When he gets a good pitch, he frequently crushes it. Seems like a pretty sound strategy.
“His best year was 2019.” Actually, that probably was his worst year, when he finished 9th in MVP voting. He’s been better than that, easily surpassing “consistently good” ever since.
Judge also has a stacked lineup in front and behind him. I don’t know who’s protecting Soto
He has no help around him. Put him on the Yankees, Dodgers, Mets, Padres…etc and his offensive numbers drastically improve.
Has anyone ever done a study to prove this theory that players generally get better according to the talent (lineup protection) around them? I think it’s way overblown.
Oh ok because his batting average is low? Like that matters when your getting on base over 40 percent of the time. This isn’t even a hot take on my part. Go to anyone’s channel on YouTube and look at top 50 players lists. Hell go watch a thousand different lists and come back here and tell me how many people have him out of there top 3. (If there is even one.) If you don’t take my word for it there is a million people telling you how wrong you are. Oh and let’s try to back your argument up with more than a half seasons sample size while complaining about BA, you silly man. And if we are playing the fwar game Soto had a higher fwar last season then the guy who won NL MVP.
You are not a very good judge of talent. Soto is 6.5 years younger and doesn’t have the injury history.
A “once in a lifetime player” who hasn’t even been as valuable, since he reached MLB, as Marcus Semien?
People don’t actually understand statistics, do they.
I’d take a jury of 12 over 2 Judges any day!
Guilty by over payment!
But yanks have judge and won’t have to trade 4 to 6 top prospects for him its tough to say that
That is a generous contract that if I was an owner I would never give it. With that being said, the Nationals should trade him and acquire some really good prospects in return.
Nats gave more to Strasburg.
No, Strasburg got 7/$245.
Did they really?
More AAV, not more $$$ overall in one deal.
Terrible idea. He’s 23, he has control left, he wants to stay, and he’s the centerpiece.
Man if 440 million dollars can’t convince him to stay, then let’s be real here: it was just the typical, predictable PR move to say “I want to stay here.”
It not the money. There is talk of the Nats being sold.
He wants to stay? Where did you get that idea? He has turned down two extension offers. That does not scream, I WANT TO STAY.
Google is your friend
Not that the Cardinals need him? But wouldn’t it be cool if they were able to swing a trade for Soto then deal from there Outfield depth for Brad Keller as well Francys01?
Hippyripper- Lol. Actually, we don’t need Soto. Why would we want Soto only to play in St Louis for a couple of seasons and then he will be a free agent. He is a looking for a mega contract and the Cards will not be fool giving that kind of contract. If we are to going to win a World Series in the next few seasons it will be without him. I don’t have no problem that Soto plays for the super team / Dodgers, Mets or even Yankees. Soto is a good hitter, but when it comes as a defender he is not as good. Hopefully, he doesn’t regret turning down a contract of 450 million.
440 million.
Yeah it would be cool for 1 or 2 years then it wouldn’t. Like ozuna for Alcantara and Gallen was cool but wasn’t now it lame as all get out
I do still like the idea of the Cardinals trading for Brad Keller
Yes, we gave a lot to acquire Ozuna from the Marlins. However, Ozuna played well for the Cards, but the hard part is now realizing that we needed to keep him and not trade him. Also, Gallen is very good too. Acquiring Keller From the Royals is not be a bad idea, but the Cards will probably focus on a rental like Chad Kuhl, Martin Perez, Jose Quintana, among others. Let’s see what they will do at the trade deadline.
Francys01: “Why would we want Soto only to play in St Louis for a couple of seasons?”
How about because it would significantly increase the Cardinals’ chances of winning the World Series? Seems like a pretty good reason to me.
I understand, but having superstars/ really great players don’t guarantee a World Series just look a few years ago when Detroit had Justin Verlander, Max Sherzer, Prince Fielder and of course Miguel Cabrera that he still plays for Detroit and that group didn’t win a World Series together. So, actually we don’t need Soto we have a farm of outfielders. No need to deplete the farm system to acquire Soto. For Soto getting a mega contract is more important than actually playing the sport which is not bad. Good luck for him, he can go and play for the super team.
Yeah they should offer him 1 billion maybe he will sign 440 million isn’t enough
That deal would to be astonishing for the Nats to want to see Soto 18 times a year in a Mets uni.
There changing that next year we will be playing the whole league
They probably going to ask for Vientos and Francisco Alvarez also.
That’s fine. I selfishly want to hang onto Alvarez and Allan because they are an immediate need for next year. I think the Mets view Vientos as an option later this year to DH and play some outfield, but for Soto you give him up.
I don’t think the Mets will pull it off, but it would be interesting.
That’s all they’re offering?
Welcome to the Yankees, Juan Soto!
No not really. I made a suggestion as a starting point up above. I was just responding to Dutch that I would hate to give up Alvarez or Allan, but everyone else would be available.
Baty or Mauricio, Butto, Ziegler and Vientos or Allan.
All that for a rental no way
Twins offer starting at Larnach and the entire AA team
@Ohyeadam You may not get Victor Robles with that offer let alone Soto.
@SMan. How about I throw in High A and Sano for Corbin, Bell and Harris
Even if the Twins could pull off a Soto trade, do they think they can sign Soto to an extension? If not, would they still be willing to part with the necessary young talent to acquire 2 1/2 years of Soto?
For once books has this right. Mets look like the top team to break the bank and deal top prospects. I could see the Yankees swooping in but Cashman loves to hug his top prospects. How does a guy reject $440 million?
Yeah, I really think it’s the Yankees or SF to be honest. Both have the money and haven’t made a big move in a while. Yankees should be going for it, and Soto certainly makes them the team to beat.
M’s have the MOST cap space and prospects to get this done yesterday. Will Trader Jerry get it done? Julio/Soto would be LETHAL!!
The Giants have too many holes to fill on an aging team. It makes no sense for them to decimate their farm for one player.
Judge has played in 82% of the games since 2017.
Soto has played in 86% of the games since 2018
Get the facts straight before making assumptions. Things happen to players. Soto could rupture his Achillies or rip his ACL tomorrow. Nobody knows the future.
@Y4L
There are numerous Mets fans that ‘know the future’, like ‘books’, ‘Metsfan’, Cosmo2 etc. They’ve already told anyone that cares to listen to them on MLBTR that the Mets have the NL East ‘won’.
Judge has played in 79.3% of the games since 2017. Juan Soto did not start the 2018 season in Washington. You either forgot this or did not know. I figure he has played in 93% of possible games. There is a big difference here. You are guilty of Trumpspeak. You get your facts straight, Trumpspeaker.
Stevie Cohen’s beautiful money.
…has nothing to do with it in the here and now. If the Yankees throw Volpe, Florial, Zeigler, Jasson, both Oswaldos, Peraza and Weineski. Perhaps another pitcher or two. I doubt any team can come up with that good a package.
I agree i would take Soto over judge just on age alone but 400 million for a guy hitting .247 is completely insane.
Not to mention it’s not just the money you have to pay him. He’s gonna cost probably 5 of your top prospects just to get him from Washington as well. I’m not sure even deep pocket teams can weather that double hit. It’s like the Vikings trading for Herschel Walker.
It is what he does with that .247. Is he a singles hitter? Clearly, he is not. He will also probably lead all of baseball in walks this year.
Man turning down a guaranteed $440 million. Hopefully he doesn’t get into a car accident or has a serious injury that prevents him getting offered another contract in the future.
I can’t wait to watch Julio/Soto hitting back to back in the same lineup!
#DYNASTY!
Hard pass if that’s what it’s going to take. For longevity of the franchise Cohen can’t just spend on every single player, part of winning is developing the younger talent and bringing them up. I’d obviously kick the tires on Soto and be willing to part with some of those guys but no way I’d lose Baty and Mauricio. Maybe Mauricio (since Lindor is there) and Ramirez; still leaves Baty (OF/3B) and Vientos.
Anyone but dodgers please im huge fan of t turner I’m hoping we can sign him long term which is gonna be very hard how can we think about signing him and giving Soto a deal like that I think he will go to one of the new york teams unless turners doesn’t resign and they know 100 percent he won’t them maybe dodger will be in if not they step out of trading for him
Ladies and Gentlemen, Meet the next Juan Gonzalez! Atta Boy
What a chump… Used to like Soto, not anymore.
Probably looks at Trout and doesn’t want yo waste away on a middle of the pack team for the next decade. Can’t blame him for wanting to win.
He won a World Series already and the Nats have already proven they can be consistent playoff contender over a long period with the last decade. Angels and Nats are no where close to comparable.
They have? Last place 2020. Last place 2021. Last place 2022. The farm is bare. 12 FA at the end of this season. They are top heavy in unmovable contracts for Strasburg and Corbin. New ownership will be coming soon. Too little winning. Too little in talent coming through the pipeline. Too much uncertainty. I just don’t see a reason any player would want to stay there.
@natsgm
That was when Strasburg was in his prime, Scherzer was there, Anibal Sanchez pitched really well, Corbin got 14 wins, Suzuki caught really well and called good games as he has done his whole career, hence why Scherzer loved pitching with him as catcher, and Suzuki also hit 17hr and 63 rbi’s, Soto hit 34 hr 110rbi, Rendon had a career year(34hr 126 rbi) and has never played like that again, Trea Turner was still there, and there was a guy called Howie Kendrick who hit .344 and outslugged Soto by a few points. You aren’t just going to unearth talent like that again.
What about this is about winning?! Its entirely about getting paid!!
I agreed he has a ring already its all about the money period.
The Nationals are not going to be bad for long. They have the nucleus of a good club in place, thanks to the rebuild, and more young talent on the way.
They are further away than you may think.
They do? Who is that? Nearly half the team will be gone at the end of the year to free agency. The remaining players other than Ruiz are scrubs.
What young talent coming up?
They have some in the pipeline, but other than Cavalli and Henry it is years away(House, Vacquero, whoever they draft on Sunday).
If they lose Soto, that pushes a return to contention to 2028-2030.
Josh Bell will be traded. Ruiz is a disappointment. Garcia has to hit around .300 to be productive because he doesn’t hit many homers or walk much. He is also out of position.They have fourth outfielders in Thomas, Hernandez and Soto. They have one good starting pitcher. Another two have bad contracts. One gets hit a lot. The other gets hurt a lot. Cavalli may turn out to be good. They have hope for the bullpen with Irvin,Henry and Ruttledge. I don’t think even one of them makes it as a starter. Brady House may be good or may not. Hard to tell. They have two outfield prospects who may pan out. De LaRosa and the Cuban guy. The Cuban is probably at least four years away.
wants to choose where he works…..the nerve!
You people who think his decision was based on anything other than pure greed crack me up. He will not accept less to play elsewhere. He would accept playing in Pittsburgh or Kansas City for $480M+
Yea, me too.
So, when you try to make as much salary at your profession as you are able, is that decision based on anything other than greed? Or is it greed only when others do it?
@RemoveManagerWinsFromTheRecordBooks Who you callin “you people?”
well Nat’s decision to not pay him market value is ‘pure greed’ to0 then.
Us people. You gotta love when someone accuses others of being greedy for trying to maximize their salary, when they’d behave in exactly the same way in this situation.
I don’t have a greedy agent negotiating for me,do you? If Boras had said take it, he would have taken it.
$500 Million, it’s Scott’s chance to be the first agent to net a $500M contract. AAV goes from $29.3M on the $440M rejected to $33.3M. What’s an extra $4M per year…Scott already makes a ridiculous amount in commissions, this one could be about his ego, to be the first.
Greed, Boras, greed, Boras, etc…. but no answer to the question.
I made myself quite clear, you people who think the offer was rejected because he doesn’t want to play in DC.
Im guessing he referred to those who have commented as “you people”. That trigger you? LOL
Yes you did make yourself quite clear, but not in the way you think you did.
Speak for yourself. His market has now been drastically reduced to the few teams able to afford a half billion dollar contract. And if he sustains a serious injury before signing that half billion contract he’s screwed. I wouldn’t take the risk but that’s because I’m not dumb. Nats can wait until the end of 2023 to trade him which means plenty of opportunity for injury.
I don’t speak for anyone else, but I do recognize hypocrisy when I see it.
Actually, he’s drastically reduced his market to teams that can afford to pay him $30m a year, which is probably at least half of them. The others couldn’t afford him at deep discount on that price tag. Every fan should know if Soto was on the player market now, he’d get at least $30m per on a shorter contract. Offering him that much now for a longer term with predictable inflation in player salaries is pricing in risk.
Everything you can’t predict ahead of time is a risk.
It really hasn’t.. a team like the Pads t
Can trade the farm for 2 1/2 yrs of control.. get 3 shots at a WS .. and let him walk…or try to work it out…15/440 is an insult… 12/400 probably gets it done.. just saying
You have inside info on what was said between them?
It cracks me up that people don’t think players know what they’re doing.
Boras is the good guy here, the owners are the greedy ones – if you think otherwise, then you merely have been fooled by ownership propaganda, who have always framed player salaries as “in relation to office worker”. Meanwhile those same owners make $800M a year off their team and where are you then? Crying about some player making $18M being “dead weight” and “the worst thing ever”. when the tickets are still high?
You don’t even know up is down in this argument. You are framing it all wrong if Boras is the bad guy. You are choosing to take the side of MUCH MUCH MUCH worse bad guys! Why????
Touche, can’t really argue that logic.
It’s greed when $440 M is not enough
@BlueSkies when you reject a 440 Million dollar offer because you want more, then yes, it is about greed. But you can’t blame the guy, hope he gets it and cripples whatever team for which he signs and plays meaningless games for the rest.of his career
Of course it is, but that’s true in every business; the U.S. has set the standard for capitalism run amok. But why should Juan Soto—perhaps the No.1 greatest offensive talent in the game—short-change his earning power in this environment?
I’m a Giants fan, and if ownership has the cojones to make an offer for Soto, I for one will applaud. “Generational talent” gets kicked around a bit. Juan Soto IS it.
Part of it is Jealousy & envy how many times l seen people say oh I wouldn’t ask for so much to play a game (Yet if they actually had the talent to get paid to play they would be asking for the same amount of money)
People thinking player salaries are the reason why prices are so high should look at the NHL where the hard cap there has players making less then they were in the 90’s yet tickets aren’t cheap at all.
It’s all supply and demand how many doctors teachers office workers are there in the world and how many people can play baseball like Juan Soto can?? Don’t know where it is at but the man is going to make his money and good for him.
I am not aware of any other offer at this time. The Nats just set the market. Correa thought he had a much higher market value, and found out he was wrong! 25 teams were just removed from Soto’s market by this announcement. The market is never what they are worth. Its always what teams are willing and able to pay.
Who on this site would take less money to do the same job because you are loyal to your current employee??? That isn’t greed. It’s called maximizing your earning power. It sucks for Nats fans, but he should make every dollar that he can while he can…and so should you!
Don’t forget that this team will not be any good until 2024 or later. There are two many holes. He won in his second year but he doesn’t want to wait three or four more years before they have the chance to win again. They were hoping he would take what really is a hometown discount. If I were in his position, I would not have taken it either. I think the team is so bad right now, I would want to leave as soon as possible. He hit a homer in each game of a doubleheader a few days ago and they still lost both games. I still doubt he gets traded in the next two weeks. The front office has made so many mistakes the last ten years. Strasburg’s innings limit was badly handled. They could have gotten a starting pitcher and put Strasburg in the bullpen for the second half of the season. He was a closer at San Diego State. They hired Davey Johnson as their manager. He ruined Dwight Gooden’s career by making him pitch so many innings in lopsided games. Don’t give me the baloney about coke ruining it. Coke actually prolonged his career because he went into rehab and got a break from pitching. Davey had Drew Storen come in a lopsided game against the Cardinals when they needed to win the next two games which were on consecutive days. Did Davey not know that there were games on back to back to back days? Did he not think he might need his closer both of those games? As far as I know, these questions have not been answered. So Davey had Drew Storen pitch three days in a row. It is no wonder he couldn’t get the final out against the Cardinals. What is one more pitcher to abuse? Bud Black was hired to manage but was only offered one year. He backed out. Johnnie Baker, who had a bad October record was hired. He was given two years. So your first choice is offered one year but your second choice is offered two. Does that make sense? Of course, they went home both of his two years after their first playoff series. Sammy Solis gets bombed against the Cubs so what did Johnnie do? Put him in again a couple days later. The Strasburg contract will go down as one of the worst in history. Maybe the worst. The only thing preventing that from happening would be his retirement. Do people actually expect him to pitch more than 100 innings in any one of the next four seasons. He’s most likely done this season after not even five innings. The man in charge of all this nonsense has been Mike Rizzo and he was just extended about a week ago. Just do a crappy job and you stay employed and make millions. Oh. I almost forgot the Patrick Corbin contract. That is another one that is garbage. He was very good his first season and has sucked ever since. It is so sad that Bryce Harper never even played in a World Series while he was here. The talent was there but there were also crappy managers along with a GM that screws up so much. That is more important.
Please read the article before commenting. He’s under team control for two and a half more years therefore he has no market value. Nats have the next two years baked into the offer.If you think $75 million more than the biggest contract in baseball history isn’t enough then what do you expect Ohtani to get $600 million?
He wants to win. It is not about greed.
So you rather go full socialism in baseball? Tell us how that would work and how you will sell that to the players union?
They’re all greedy. The mistake is thinking that greed is bad in this context.
You can’t be serious. When a person has the opportunity to go from $30/hr to $50/hr that’s a change in lifestyle. But if a professional athlete won’t accept 30m/yr but 35-40m/year is acceptable, that is greed. Lifestyle isn’t changing. At that point it’s about status of saying “I got the first $500m contract” which is all ego. Ego is me first and not about team or winning.
Socialism? You are creating a false dichotomy. It’s not either half a billion dollar contracts OR socialism.
We aren’t talking about wanting a pay raise from $50,000 to $75,000 ace.
Boras works for him, not the other way around.
Please learn the difference between revenue and profit. Owners make nowhere remotely close to the $500M or $800M figures you throw out. When the Dodgers’ revenue was over $500M, they still had an operating income of around -$8M.
Owners make bank selling the teams…not on a yearly basis. While it is a business, a good number of owners have teams as little hobbies, not as prime income streams.
85GoCards: good luck trying to explain that basic business concept to baseball fans. (By the way, I follow my local team now, but as a kid I was die hard Cardinals fan. Tom Herr and Joaquin Andujar were my favorites. If I get the reference in your handle correctly.)
You’re looking at that 35-40m through the lense of one person’s needs, billybilly. If you have a unique skillet that few do, and you can get an extra 100m or whatever over a decade, wouldn’t you want to set up your great, great grandkids? I guarantee those “poor” billionaire owners are doing the same. People are just upset because they see the numbers and/or they’re Nats fans.
You know that how? When did agents suddenly start controlling the people they are hired by to represent them in negotiations? Boras advises his clients, not tells them what to do.
Based on past history I can see the two NY teams, the two LA teams, Washington. Boston. Maybe the Cubs and Giants. Phillies if Midddleton wants to spend “stupid” money, again. Am I missing any other likely suitor?
Cards.
Billionaires either stole it or inherited it from someone who stole it.
Soto could’ve also agreed to take it.
If Pittsburgh paid him $480 million, he’d have to pitch, play all three outfield positions, manage and sell beer when he’s not playing.
@BlueSkiesLA
That’s a presumption, not a fact. Maybe ‘most people’ do attempt to maximize their salary, however, sometimes some people take less money to stay in a position and locality they love. However, as this is about a baseball player and we’re talking about millions, is it all about the money? There have been other players that have taken less money to stick with certain teams. I won’t name names because it’s a fact.
I suppose it depends on what your motivating factor is, is it to try and win World Series or is it just about money?
BlueSkies_LA – Greed refuses to be satisfied. More often than not, the more we get, the more we want. Material possessions will not protect us—in this life or eternally. Jesus’ parable of the rich fool in Luke 12:13–21 illustrates this point well. Again, money or wealth is not a problem. The problem is our attitude toward it. When we place our confidence in wealth or are consumed by an insatiable desire for more, we are failing to give God the glory and worship He deserves. We are to serve God, not waste our time trying to become rich (Proverbs 23:4). Our heart’s desire should be to store up riches in heaven and not worry about what we will eat or drink or wear. “But seek first [God’s] kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well” (see Matthew 6:25-34).
Isn’t it possibile that both location AND money played into the decision? Lets face it, he knows he can get PAID in the FA market. So, money is top of the list but I think winning is a close second. Washington is going to be a dumpster fire for a while, especially with the status of the NL, in general. Atlanta and NY are positioned to run the East for a while. Cards are gonna Card. Dodgers and SD will be atop the West. Maybe Soto wants to take his pick of $450M contracts from the likes of larger market teams who are in a a position to win. All things being equal, if he had the same exact contract on the table and it was a choice between PIT, WAS, NYY, NYM, LAD, KC, MIA, OAK. You know the likes of WAS, PIT, OAK, MIA would be at the bottom of his list. So, yea, money played a big part but I’d be willing to bet he’s well aware of how bad WAS will be and doesn’t wanna be stuck on a bad team for the next 10 yrs. Just my opinion though.
@Fred McGriff HR. How many times have you heard someone say, “no thanks boss, I don’t deserve that raise.” Exactly never? And those are individuals looking out for themselves. Ballplayers hire professional negotiators to look out for them, and not for no reason.
The “home town discount” or whatever you might call it is the unicorn of baseball. It’s talked about a lot more often than it’s seen. So you say you won’t name names, but I think not because it’s obvious but in fact because it’s really difficult. Like the example above, nobody ever says that they turned down a better offer to play somewhere. It’s just an assumption fans sometimes like to make because it’s a feel-good thing to believe it. The reality is players who make choices to sign or remain with a certain team are getting market rate for their services. They have fielded other offers and are not deliberately leaving money on the table.
In Soto’s case the headline number is huge, obviously, but I think we all know the Nat’s offer is a lowball. Based on his age and talent we know he’ll get a better offer from another team. Also in his case it’s some of both, the money and the prospect of being stuck for the rest of his career on a team that might not be competitive for the better part of it. He knows he can have both, and he isn’t going to say “no thanks” to either one. The only surprise to me is that any baseball fan is surprised.
@NickyNoodles. Yup, pretty much what I think too. More money, better franchise. What’s the downside, other than being called “greedy” by fans who still haven’t wrapped their heads around how much teams will pay for top talent? I mean, if we hang out here, we know. Right?
Braves fans have examples, but they aren’t recent examples: Maddux, Chipper Jones, Andruw Jones. I can’t think of any others off-hand.
Soto has time to see if the Nats are serious about contending next year and beyond. If they are still second-division coming out of 2024, then he can use that as part of his decision-making. If they trade him before then, it simplifies things for him.
@BlueSkiesLA
Ozzie Albies, Ronald Acuna, Collin McHugh, to name a few.
And you get a great deal less for him if you wait until the end of 2023 to trade him.
How do you envision the Nats “contending next year?” Pass the pipe.
@larkraxm Yeah, because money’s all that matters.
Sigh. How sad.
But it’s his Bobblehead day! With a stars wars crossover! JUAN SOLO!
If the 750 MLB players don’t get the money, all the extra is just going to the 30 owners.
I don’t get people like you.
I understand them completely. They are just mad that they don’t have a skillset that has as high of earning power, so they have to find some way of coping with the fact that they are less.
No fans like I are mad at both owners and players. Why would I spend $120 plus on 2 tickets and parking to watch a baseball game? The regular people are getting out priced to go to a game. Family of four cant go to games anymore. MLB and most sports is now over priced for the working class to attend games.
Yes they can. You can get tickets for $10-15 at any stadium right now for a game in 2 weeks. That’s the same price as a movie.
@ARC 2 Owners can set ticket prices at $10 but don’t because they need to make $500M profit, not “merely” $400M. They “need” that 7th house. It’s disgusting greed and helps no one and destroys society.
Baseball players careers are over at 35 and few of them have other options, because MLB requires them to dedicate 100% of their time to them. It is never, I repeat, NEVER their fault. They need to get paid and be able to retire at 35 for participating in this industry, period.
That is not true. i don’t call a seat with restricted views as going to a game. the rich call those peasant seats while they use tax loop holes to write off seats as a business expense. Most of the best seats are corporate seats. Now add in parking, food, transportation and you just drove up the price. Hard to believe you feel sorry for players and owners.
Sure. But what he is saying (I think) is that if they cut player salaries to $8.00/hour, the owners wouldn’t suddenly reduce ticket prices and hand out free beer and parking to the fans. They would just keep more of it. It isn’t a choice of is it going to you or the players. Some goes to the players or the owners keep it all.. We don’t get any of it!
And things like putting games on streaming services — different ones. How much money do these bozoids think we have?
Actually, they do have $10 tickets.
I don’t know what part of the US you live in, but where I do, you can take public transport to two blocks from the stadium.
Yes, food and drink is grossly overpriced, but if you get hot dogs and non alcoholic drinks for four, you’re still under $100.
You are completely mistaken. If the players get more money, then the owners don’t lose any, the prices for fans go UP. The owners will never lose money. They wouldn’t continue having games or even having a team if they were losing money. It is a business, not a charity after all.
That a seriously bizarre take on economics, hiflew.
This isn’t about economics. This is about history. Sports leagues and teams have failed a LOT in the past 100 years in America. MLB is not immune to it. If teams lose money, they will not operate indefinitely. No one in their right mind would. And without the owners, let’s see how many Dominican or Venezuelan, or even American kids with just a high school education that will ever see $440 thousand dollars in 15 years, let alone $440 million.
@hiflew you are mistaken in that players salaries do not make ticket prices go up. Ticket prices are set by market value. Demand and Supply. A better product in the field will make tickers more desirable, for sure. But there isn’t a direct correlation between salaries and ticket prices
Good grief! If an owner runs a team into the ground, then the next person will be there to purchase the team. Which owner sold a team for less than they purchased it for in the history of sports?? Did you see the Broncos recent sale? As for the bigoted comment about the intelligence of the highly skilled athletes from non-white countries, they are making fat trust fund babies that contribute nothing to society a lot of money…even without a Master’s degree.
All of the money in sports is in the TV contracts.
@ SoCalBrave. Thank you for getting it. You must have paid attention in Econ 101. As we can see, lots dozed through that course.
How exactly was it a bigoted comment to point out that not many kids from Venezuela, the Dominican Republic, or the United States that barely have a high school education make millions of dollars in any field other than baseball? Just because someone uses the word Dominican or Venezuelan doesn’t mean they are bigoted.
Please take your time to explain how I am bigoted for pointing that out. I said nothing about their intelligence, only their education level. Since most Dominicans and Venezuelans get signed at 16, I naturally assumed they didn’t have their Master’s degree yet.
Absolutely false. Supply and demand have surprisingly little to do with ticket prices. If that were the case, the prices for Marlins tickets would be near zero. There are lots of empty seats in stadiums and ticket prices are not falling.
You said nothing bigoted at all. Some folks just enjoy being triggered and making baseless accusations on the subject.
The point stands, or not, without commenting about their countries of origin? Entertainment (sports, movies, music, etc.) is the only field in which children who have not completed their formal educational training can earn millions of dollars regardless of their countries of origin. There isn’t really Doogie Howser. That was just a TV show. I’m not really sure why you are making this point? But I will concede it. It is hard for children to earn millions of dollars outside of entertainment. Your real point, I think, is an old one that credits capital instead of workers for production. The way your comment is written implies that because players originate from the countries you mentioned, and have no formal education, they should not complain or ask to be paid a fair amount of MLB revenue. If that was not your intention, I am sorry for calling your comment bigoted. It is the limitation of a comment section, I guess. It is hard to tell intent.
@riverrat12 – finally some common sense in here, love to see it.
@riverrat
No, if the one player doesn’t get the money, 749 other MLB players will be able to get it. Payroll is a fixed amount, a percentage of revenue. If you don’t spend it on Soto, it gets spent on other players.
riverrat: you are WAY oversimplifying things. There are MANY other places for that money to go. So much more involved in revenue than just players and owner profit. Soooooo much more. You need to really look into this, you’ve no clue how business works.
Got forbid a business owner make a profit. Workers of the world, unite! Eat the rich! The profit motive is bad! (Except for the players desire for millions of dollars, that’s not bad because they are the workers)
Why? You don’t like it when players want to exercise their option to choose where they want to play? You have a problem with him wanting to gauge his value on the open market?
No I don’t. That is the complete antithesis of a competitive league. Look at what it has done to the NBA.
The NBA is growing popularity every year. The MLB is not.
I’ve often wondered about players free will to play where they want vs any pressure from agents or the MLBPA to take the highest offer. Mike Trout grew up a Phillies fan. Why sign that extension with the Angels instead of taking the FA route and getting to wear the uniform you dreamed of as a kid? If Soto grew up dreaming of being a Yankee, go for it, If Judge loved the Giants, go for it. Why not?
@wampum
Maybe he also dreamed of playing his whole career with one team.
@stymeedone very true, players do speak of wanting to spend their entire career with one team.
I wouldn’t stay in DC … The Nats are a disaster with no chance of win anytime soon … The talk there is that the team will be sold in the next 2-3 years and they won’t do much in the meantime … Soto would flourish if he was on a decent team !
The Nats have a good young nucleus in place. They will be contending within the next couple of years.
They do? Who would that be? Other than Ruiz and Soto there are no good young players I can see. Their farm system is relatively bare. Just the two decent prospects and they are both just doing MEH this season. They have $60 million a season tied up in Strasburg and Corbin. They have 12 players leaving in free agency at the end of the season. The Nats are not going to contend any time soon.
I don’t know what team you’re watching. The nucleus is Soto, Bell Garcia and that is pretty much it. Bell will be gone in the next 16 days.. Garcia should be at second base. Soto should be traded for three guys that will be in the everyday lineup in the next two years and a starting pitcher. That is what they should get at minimum. I wish Mike Rizzo was not in charge of this. He has screwed up so much. The only starting pitcher with potential is Cade Cavalli. Cole Henry gets hurt too often, Jackson Ruttledge can’t put it together in the low minors and Jake Irvin has been getting bombed in AA. Put these three in the bullpen and they should have a great bullpen in two years. The only promising outfielders are Jeremy de La Rosa.and the Cuban guy they just signed. Brady House might be good or not. Keibert Ruiz has been a disappointment. Maybe that is why they might draft a catcher tomorrow.
Harper, Scherzer, Turner, Rendon…I can go on. Why would Soto want to stay?
Dumbest owners in MLB. They should have never been allowed to win a title while being this incompetent.
Sometimes a team just gets hot. There were certainly worse WS winners than the Nats.
True. Atlanta
They shouldn’t have been allowed? 29 other teams had the chance to stop them but couldn’t. What a crazy notion.
@Drew Ford
Yeah sure, beat the Dodgers, beat the Astros, pure luck it wasn’t. Dream on.
It’s the uncertainty with ownership not the $$$$$. Rumors they may sell the team.
Wow.
I don’t blame him, though. That team is going nowhere with their current roster and farm system.
He’s not even worth 440 million ☠️
Oh he is on the right team, but whats the point of paying him that much money to be an MVP contender on a disaster of a franchise?
Apparently the Nats think there’s a point, since they offered it to him.
Hmm. Best record in the 2010s. Took a new franchise and made the playoffs within a decade. Won the World Series three years ago. Yep total disaster. Not.
New franchise???? Sorry Montreal Expos. Baseball Babe just erased you from history!
Last place in 2020. Last place in 2021. Last place in 2022. No chance to get out of last place in 2023.
Soto is the best hitter since Gwinn, no doubt. But his defense is declining into unplayable and he’s never been a fast runner.
Is he really worth 500M if he’s a DH only player?
Juan Soto is obviously a great hitter but he’ll have to dominate hitting more than just in a pandemic-shortened season to come close to dethroning Mike Trout — maybe a few other hitters too. Don’t see how Soto compares to Gwynn. Gwynn hit over .300 19 years in a row. Soto has done it only twice. And Soto hits for power, which Gwynn never really did. They only compare in a high OBP, but a lot of great hitters have had high OBPs. The hitter today that compares to Tony Gwynn is Minnesota’s Luis Arraez — even if it’s only one season so far.
Tony Gwynn had high OBPs only because he hit well over .300 so many times. He hit .338 for his career and his obp was only .388. That tells you he didn’t walk much.
Gwynn maybe didn’t walk as much probably because pitchers pitched to him rather than walk him. The guys who pitchers pitch around tend to be mashers — which Gwynn was not.
Give me a break! He’s nothing like Gwynn! What sport have you been watching? Lol!
@SoCalBrave
Best hitter since Tony Gwynn? Not even close.
It might not be about the money for Soto. Maybe he just wants to be able to test free agency in a few years or find another ball club. Give him the benefit of the doubt.
Exactly, the Nats have been very bad building a long term projection for themselves, the farm is awful. Why be the only good player on a non-serious team?
Nope. They have an excellent young nucleus in place.
Who? Other than Ruiz and Soto, who is the “excellent young nucleus”? The farm sucks so no help coming there.
Ruiz has been a disappointment. He has not even been an average hitter this season.
It’s about the money. The AAV of that offer was under $30mil. I’d reject it too. I’d want more than what Harper’s making.
Nationals dodged a bullet. Soto is pretty great but not that great.
Incoming lowball offers in the comments.
Andujar, Chapman, and Gallo should get it done.
It’s too bad Clint Frazier isn’t a Yankee still. He would be a perfect addition to that offer.
Don’t forget to add Sanchez.
What’s Refsnyder, Adams, Fowler, Mateo, Sheffield up to these days?
@MC Tim C- *Jackson Frazier
@stymeedone- the Sanchise is now a member of the Twinkies. Pay attention.
how many years?
I think he understands that the Nationals are going nowhere fast.
Wants to compete for championships not 4th or 5th place in the division
He understands that the Nats will be back in contention soon.
2025 or 2026 at the earliest is not very soon. I don’t know why Mike Rizzo said he was not going to trade Soto but build around him. Does he know how long it will take to make this team a winner even if Soto is still around? There is no way it would be by 2024. There are just too many weaknesses to address. When he says something stupid like that, it makes me wonder about his ability. I know he has screwed up many times in the last ten years.
That left-handed bat between Springer and Guerrero in Toronto would be sick.
Oh man. I’m drooling at the thought of Soto in the Jays lineup. He’s exactly what they need.
I can’t see them pulling the trigger on this though.
With a farm system ranked in the 20s, holes to fill in the pitching staff and Atkins preaching sustainability I just can’t see them emptying the farm for Soto.
I mean what would it cost them? Moreno, Orelvis, Tiedemann, Espinal, Gurriel + a lotto ticket or two maybe?
I mean the system is crap and the time to win is literally right now. There is no point in sustainability if the current team teeters out. So I would trade any number of prospects.
I mean… if they emptied the farm… and I mean completely emptied the farm for Soto, Castillo and a couple bullpen arms… I’d have a hard time arguing that move. But it would mean literally almost every prospect of value being shipped out.
That would be crazy risky… but would set them up as likely the top team in the AL for probably the next 3 years. And they did turn around pretty quickly after Anthopoulous gutted the farm in 2016…. So maybe they feel it would be worth a shot.
Can’t see them going big after Soto to reinforce a strength unless they are going to attack the pitching weaknesses too though.
Pitching weakness is overblown. Starters have been good outside of Kikuchi and 35% of Berrios and I am not too worried about Berrios. Pen is a weakness yes but the disappointing season is mainly on the bats so far. Vlad, Teoscar, Bo all having “down” years. Did not replace Semien’s MVP bat. Last year the Jays had MVP 2,3, 12. This year, zero so far in the top 12…unless Manoah gets some votes.
What? Alejandro Kirk probably finishes top 5 in MVP voting if the season ended today. He’s the replacement for Simien we just didn’t see coming.
You’re right about the pitching though. Stripling has been solid and Berrios should work himself out. Just the 5 spot is a mess. Hopefully Max Castillo can fill that spot. If not you can probably get someone like Quintana for very little.
It’s more the bullpen I worry about. In the playoffs those relievers are so much more valuable. Not a lot of swing and miss in that bullpen and that makes it harder in the post season.
Yankees lol – imagine that OF
Exactly.
Peraza Waldichuk;pretty much any prospect not named Volpe or the Martian,contingent on a 10/$310M.
Wave 10/$400M under Jusge’s nose as well.
Judge*
And I’d keep Gallo as a 4th outfielder. Move Hicks.
You seriously think he’s gonna accept a $10 year/310 million contract when he just rejected a 15 year/440? Plus to get him it’s gonna take Volpe, Peraza, and whatever else of value we have.
Exactly – that defense is going to be worst in the league by 1000 miles. You need defense to win. Yankees stay chipless as long as you keep ignoring this, which you ALWAYS do!
The Yankees are not getting Soto while still keeping Volpe and Dominguez IMO.
@beyou02215- that’s not happening one or the other is going. It would be in the Nats best interest to get Dominguez and Peraza instead of Volpe. The Martian is about 2 years away. Hicks can play centerfield or leftfield till he’s ready.
Highly doubt they’re trading Soto to NY without one of Volpe or Dominguez being included. They should be in no rush to move him since he’s not a free agent for multiple years so why settle? It’s going to take a team’s number 1 prospect.
Dodgers could offer something like Cartaya, Miller, Pepiot, Pages which is a much better package than Peraza and Waldichuk (even if you included the 5 best prospects immediately after those two) and still have a farm that includes Amaya, Busch, Leonard, Vargas, etc.
Zero chance the Yankees get Soto without offering Volpe and Dominguez
@Bjoe- that’s nonsense, the Yankees definitely don’t have to trade both of them to acquire Soto. The Nationals would be better off getting both Dominguez and Peraza instead of Volpe. Peraza is major league ready, and is better shortstop defensively then Volpe.
Lol…Nats aren’t trading Soto without getting Volpe and Dominguez.
Any offer from the Yankees would have to start with Volpe and then include 3 of the next 4 on the list of their top prospects. They don’t have any young, controllable MLB talent to include in a trade for Soto.
@outinleftfield- Volpe will not be included in any Soto trade. Peraza is a shortstop that’s ready to perform on the major league level now. Hicks can play the outfield for now until Dominguez is ready. He’s about 2 years away. Everson Pereira is a year away. Schmidt and Waldichuk are 2 starters that are ready for the majors.
What about Austin Wells being included?
Let the sweepstakes begin! Abrams, Gore, Campusano, Mears, and Myers. Initial offer
I doubt Abrams does a ton to add value to the deal while his value is so low. Switch him out with one other blue chip and I could see something like this coming together
Abrams is 21 and should have not been in he majors this year. At his age he should be in high A and he was raking in AAA. Thinking his underwhelming cup of coffee lowers his value is completely asinine.
Abrams has hit .315 in his last 20 games. .364 his last 10 games. There is a reason he was a higher rated prospect than Volpe or any other SS prospect. His value has not dropped at all just because he is hitting .233 overall in 116 AB at age 21. Abrams, Hassell, Woods, and the Ruiz kid they just called up that was hitting lights out in AA and AAA this season (.333 with 1.027 OPS) would probably get the deal done for Soto. Probably see another prospect attached from both direction in the trade. Then the Padres would have to figure out a way to pay Soto who will make $25+MM in 2023 and $30+MM in 2024 before he hits FA.
Why on earth do you think consensus top 10 prospect CJ Abrams trade value is currently low? Know ball before posting next time?
GB-What? He’s 21, and is holding his own..he adds tons of value to the deal.
I think if Padrss want Soto they get Soto..
Myers (matches the $$ factor to stay under the CBT tax)
The package would be CJ + Hassell + Campusano + Rosario + Victor Acosta + Wethers + Kerr + Myers
Only OF control beyond 22 are Ruiz and Grishman so they will be shopping for OF anyway.. Ruiz CF/Soto in LF and Grishman 4th is a good start…
Henry-That’d be a hard no
The Nats are not going to take Myers (or Hosmer).
SoCal-They’d have to if they want the rest of the package to make the salary match work for the Padres. Myers is a free agent after this season, so he’d be a throw in to make the rest work.
He’s not a free agent at seasons end. What’s the 2023 club option buyout?
1 million buyout if 2023 isn’t picked up.
sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/padres/story/2022-…
Ah, not bad then!
Wow. A 9 for 1 trade? LMFAO. Just no.
Nats could get a comparable return for Soto without taking the overpaid clubhouse cancer Myers.
So give up the foundational building blocks of the Padres next 6-10 years of contention for 1 corner OF and a rental player at that?!
If Padres are smart, then that is a “hard pass” on that deal.
How has that worked out for the Angels with Rondone, Trout and Otani
all making big bucks and the team is still not a playoffs team?!
@sportsfanoooo Soto is not a rental player
Insert Jo Adell trade meme
WOW! Highly doubtful he gets a better offer than that from anybody.
Prepare to be surprised.
The doubters always do this, and always get owned. Every time. Unbelievable how out of touch so many people are when it comes to stuff like this.
You remember when Harper and Machado were getting $400 million?
Great point
Just like corre…oh wait
Only difference is neither Harper nor Machado got Offered $440 mil.. Soto just did
It’s under (albeit a shade) $30MM per year. 8 years in on the 15 yr deal, may be a bargain.
Over 15 years that’s only $29.33 million a year. He’ll easily top that AAV without question.
But I doubt that the money is the problem. Who would want to be stuck on the Nats for 15 years? Look what they have around him in that lineup.
Keeping in mind, the first two years of any extension at this point are arbitration years buyouts. I was surprised the writer of this article didn’t pick up on that, and it seems most readers didn’t either.
He’s already making $17.1 mil this year after making $8.5 last year. Factoring in the raises for the next two years as well as the new bonus pool he could potentially lose money by taking a $29.33 mil buyout for those years.
Maybe I’ve missed something but I’ve never heard of a player who earned $30m in arbitration. I think he bumps up into the mid-20s. Something less than the AAV for the entire offer, is the point.
Soto is making $17 million this season and will make $25+ and $30+ the next two seasons in arbitration. Typically free agents make more AAV than they do in their final year of arbitration eligibility. Why the Nats thought that he would accept $29 million AAV is beyond me.
You never heard of one with Soto’s service time make $17 million either. He will get record money in his final two years of arbitration also. Using this website’s formula that would be over $25 million next season and over $30 million in 2024.
Everyone let’s just stop for a second. This human being just uttered the phrase “only $29.33 million a year.” Only. It’s just mind boggling that the word only gets used with a number that is probably 5 times more than most people will earn in a lifetime. I have absolutely no sympathy for these guys.
Strangely enough, nobody asked for your sympathy, so no need to offer any.
Strangely enough, I never asked for your reply either. So need to offer any. Have a nice day.
Sweet.
It’s closer to fifteen times what the median income earner wold make in forty years. (Calculated with a median income increasing every year for inflation)
I have sympathy neither for the owners nor for the “stars”. My only sympathy is for the minor leaguers who never make the big league and the MLB players who bounce in and out on a marginal career. Without those players, there would be no baseball.
@ Skeptical. Well okay, but sympathy has nothing to do with anything happening here. I was responding to the question of whether Soto would fetch more or less than $30m per if he was a free agent now. Anyone who believes it would be less couldn’t be paying a lot of attention to what premium players are getting. Corey Seager (just for one example) is playing on a ten-year contract worth over $30m per every year to age 37. So we should understand why Soto turned down the Nat’s offer. His agent knows it’s under market (and so should we).
There are 720 people at any one time that even play in MLB. Soto is one of the top 5 hitters in the game. What do people that are the top 5 at any highly skilled activity get paid? Top 5 actors? statista.com/statistics/451516/best-paid-actors/ The film director Peter Jackson made $580 million in 2021 and Bruce Springsteen made $435 million. Top 5 NBA players? All make over $42 million AAV. Top 5 Soccer Players? Ronaldo is set to earn $125 million before taxes in the 2021-22 season, with $70 million coming from salary. Top 5 doctors? All billionaires. Top 5 salespeople. All billionaires. You name any field of highly skilled people and tell me what their income is. Its more than what Soto will get.
You have to ask yourself what percentage of the baseball playing population can play baseball at such a high level. It is very small. That is why we are talking about such big numbers. So many prospects don’t make it. They get hurt or they just are not good enough for MLB.
A good young nucleus in place with more young talent coming in. They’ll be contending in a couple of years.
If they are contending in a couple of years, it will be because they have overpaid several free agents just like they did for Jayson Werth. I just don’t see it happening.
He will. From the Nats.
Rejection of your $440 million offer seems to take the sting out of decision making. Going public with it (if F.O. Is the source) seals the divorce. Might lighten the return too.
It went public so that no one can say they didn’t attempt to sign him. He will be gone before any sale, so it won’t be on the new owners. They will want to be looked at as saviors, not the ones who traded the future of the team. Plus it will provide a clean slate for building a team the way the new owners wish. Best likely scenario would be to trade for an already signed long term contract, one that is not yet underwater. A Tatus Jr, or Betts, for Soto, after a window to sign him. Of course there would have to be no trade clauses waived. But between financial incentives, and the realization that your team wants to move you, these things can happen.
When Boras retires, MLB will rise from the ashes!
I’m not going anywhere sir
He better take Manfred with him.
Ashes? MLB has record revenue this season and its climbing. Team values are skyrocketing.
Looks like MLB revenue peaked in 2019. Cord cutting is endangering baseball’s future economics. Young people watch far less cable than they used to and in parallel less baseball. MLB won’t feel it for awhile but it’s likely they will big time eventually.
pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/03/17/cable-and-sat…
Yankees have what it takes, volpe, Peraza, Dominguez, wells
But the Yankees prospects are too precious! Why would they trade unproven prospects for a superstar?
Clint Frazier and a PTBNL should get it done.
Actually Clint Frazier and Andujar should get the job done.
His name is actually Jackson Frazier now, btw. Check his baseball-reference page.
Not accepting this unless they pull the Twins in and include Gary Sanchez
@Chris G.- *Jackson Frazier
Doubt that gets it done if it’s gonna happen this season. 2 and 1/2 years of control for a kid who’s worst season was 44% better than league average. Plus Dominguez is having a down year and Pereza, while good, isn’t the same blue chip that someone like the Padres could offer
Highly disagree. Padres have two guys in top 100 currently, before the season three. Volpe is by far much better then any prospect Padres have
Hassell Jr + Campusano + Wood = 3, not 2 Top 100 prospects. Before season they had 4, Gore, Abrams, Campusano and Hassell
@joemoes- it doesn’t really matter if won’t be Volpe going to the Nationals it will be Dominguez and Peraza+
I hate myself saying this, but I think he’s an Astro before next season. They seem to be the team that would most willing may part with the talent it requires to get Soto, and they can spend the money on a 15/500 or something
The Astros will spend money, but, the kind it would take to keep Soto around would dwarf the kind of money they (reluctantly) offered Correa when he hit the open market…Don’t see them doing that..
The Astros don’t have enough to get a deal done, even if it included Tucker and Javier.
Stros will not trade Tucker. He’s a 30/30 guy, a gold glove and All-Star and young / controllable for several years, so you can forget that. Also Jim Crane will not dole out crazy contracts and thus Springer, Correa and Cole are bye bye replaced by cheaper just as good options ( Tucker, Peña and Valdez). I do think they make a play for the Reds pitcher.
If the Astros traded for Soto, he would only get his arbitration years and a few more FA years purchased at best… More likely they would just let him go through arbitration each year and let him walk in free agency.
*pukes
Enormous contracts make it more difficult to build a winning team around the player. Just look at the Angels. He is absolutely crazy for rejecting that.
Angels not competing has had more to do with Arte refusing to sign pitchers to multi-year deals, not enormous contracts for position players. The team can afford to spend $230 million. Arte just won’t.
He already has his World Series ring. Now he just wants to get paid.
Somebody thought he was going to be recruiting Trea Turner back to DC at ASG…. Seems rather unlikely eh.
More like turner trying to lure him to LA
Turner doesn’t want to be in LA, genius.
So the dodgers will get him for David price. If he’s rejecting 15/440 then he’s pricing himself out of most the league. Unless he wants opt out years or something else the Nats aren’t offering
The Nats would trade their superstar for an old pitching rental? Huh?
antone — Clearly, TJECK109 was being facetious.
Why should he accept 15/440
He could easily command 10/350
And the next two
Years of arbitration he probably Makes 20 a year soooo
He’s looking at 12/400 basically he can’t easily get 3/40 after that maybe better still
@Joe Because it’s a guaranteed 440M. One fastball to the face and his career could be over. It’s a risk to turn down that much guaranteed money.
@ joemoes You have it right.
Probably he’s looking at mid-2os in arbitration. In fact if you go 13 * 30 the remainder is 50, or 25 * 2. The things we can learn with the terrible power of arithmetic!
In the next two years of arbitration he probably makes $25 million and $30 million after making $17.1 million this season. He is looking at 12/420 as a starting point for negotiations if he goes to FA after earning $55 the next 2 years in arbitration and he gets to choose what team he plays for. He gets to go to a winning team, not one mired in losing for the foreseeable future. .
Farhan Zaidi’s first big signing? The Giants desperately need a young superstar. 10/440, they have plenty of $ to spend.
Supposedly Farhan/ownership really wanted Harper, Soto would be a even better signing. Get it done!
That would be a good bit of business in this guy’s opinion. That said, I expect more years somewhere with a slightly lower aav but more dollars.
Marco Luciano, Kyle Harrison plus some more lower level prospects with 2025-26 estimates for MLB time
I think the Giants would let Luciano, Matos and others go, but I don’t think Harrison.
Giants don’t have the high end prospects close to the majors that Soto would require. There’s a few teams that can out bid them
I can’t imagine turning down a guaranteed 440M dollars regardless of the circumstances. He’s just one shredded knee away….
Logical thought process except.
Just this year alone he’s making 17 million….. thats lottery winning money.
If you won the lottery tomorrow, and you had a skill you thought was worth 500 million, but someone offered you 12.5% less than what you thought you’re worth AND you already have 10s of millions. I think its a gamble worth taking.
If he doesn’t earn another dime there’s no reason he and his family abd future generations can’t be set up for sustainable success
And I think once you make $17M (plus whatever he’s made the past few years), you don’t really need money. It’s about you and your family for generations never having to worry ever again about money.
I don’t know where you guys live, but 17M (pre tax) for a lifetime isn’t exactly set up for generations to come. And I live in Ohio….
If you had 17 million in your hand, you could live off the interest and proceeds from your secure investments and never touch the 17 million.
There’s absolutely no reason for anyone fiscally responsible to ever need more than a few million. 17 is overkill
@Jays – a few million (we’ll call it 3) / 60 years comes out to 50k a year. For a family, I wouldn’t say that’s comfortable. Doable sure, depending on where you want to live.
You don’t spend the capital. At 3% interest $3 mil earns you $90k a year.
I couldn’t imagine signing with a garbage franchise like ANA or WAS when you could get more on the market.
Players get to the majors by believing and betting on themselves.
I’m not shocked he turned the nats down
How is Washington a garbage franchise? They won a WS recently. What else do you want?
Last place in 2020. Last place in 2021. Last place in 2022. 12 players leaving at the end of the season in FA. No great prospects in the minors and few that are even good. Only one good young player other than Soto on the MLB roster. Strasburg and Corbin are making $60 million combined this season and more next two so 40% of rotation is set with guys that are either hurt or terrible. No chance of climbing out of last place in 2023. The team will be sold this year so no telling what will happen down the road. Can you name one reason for any player to want to sign there?
Money
Sounds like the relationship soiled fast. Wow.
I’m sure trading away half the team and surrounding him with AAA bats helped out.
This only equates to around 29 Mil a year. There are teams that would definitely give him a higher AAV over the same time frame
Big risk to take. One 98 mph to the head/neck and things can change real fast.
A knee injury, a back injury, foot problems, eye sight problems and overall regression can happen to anyone and make those long contracts turn into an albatross.
LOL. Says a fan of the team who can’t afford him… you already have the oft-injured Acuna and So-broke-a to deal with. I wouldn’t recommend dropping 50% of your future payroll on one guy anyway.
I was referring to the big risk Soto was taking by turning down almost half a billion.
Which is what insurance is for. Do you really think teams make an investment like that without it?
Contract could
Be ruined but teams have insurance
But how much? Even with good insurance that’s still probably at least $200 million paid.
I was referring to the risk Soto was taking by turning it down.
That’s a ton of money. Life altering money. However, spread over 15 years that’s an AAV of just north of $29 million. Not even close to the top AAV in MLB so no one should be surprised that it was rejected. As one of the premier talents and biggest stars in the game he has a valid argument to be at or near the top of the charts in both total $$$$ and AAV. Had they made that offer for 10 years rather than 15 he may well have taken it. Now, let the bidding begin to see who makes the best trade offer.
So basically the Dodgers, Yankees and Mets are the only ones gonna pay a $500 million dollar contract.
The assumption is that this is just about money, it could be more about winning. I’m not saying he’s going to pull a Jram, but have a feeling his extension won’t be much more than 440 no matter where he ends up
Hes already won. No is about the money.
You win 1 championship and you all of a sudden enjoy losing, is that really the opinion you’re going with ?
The Nats are in last place this season. They were in last place the previous 2 seasons. They will be in last place next season with or without Soto. There are few prospects in the pipeline that can help the next 2 or 3 years. They have 12 players that will be FA at the end of this season. So they are going to continue to lose for the foreseeable future. If you want to win, you are not signing a deal with the Nats right now.
Yankees aren’t even going to make an offer for Soto
@Braves as of right now I don’t see any team give $500 million.
Not a team… a man… Steve mufuggin’ Cohen.
@skip- I can definitely see the Yankees offering Soto $540 million for 12 years. At $45 mill a pop he definitely seems worth it. Let’s face it Mr. Soto is a total game changer or needle mover for any organization.
Teams would only be getting control through 2024. Don’t necessarily need to think about the $500 million. Could make sense for a small market team in a competitive window – Twins, Brewers, Guardians etc. Would essentially be renting Soto at his arb salary. Then get a competitive balance pick at the end after he rejects the QO. Or even flip him in 2024.
BB-Head – – I could see the Dodgers trading equity for 2+ years of Soto. But, i highly doubt they will sign him long term because he is a Scott Boras client.
But, to your point, I could also see the Braves Cardinals, and Giants shelling out big money for him.
The Braves are a mid-market team. They weren’t willing to pay Freddie. I seriously doubt they’d be willing to pay Soto market value. I could see AA trading prospects for him to be on the team for two years, but Atlanta doesn’t have the prospects.
Maybe they just thought letting him go was a better baseball decision. It’s not necessarily that they couldn’t afford Freddie.
I never said they couldn’t afford him, I said they were unwilling to pay him. It seems you agree with me.
Sorry, you are correct. Yes we agree. I should have read more carefully.
Just like Soto. Technically, they could afford him, but wouldn’t want to commit that much to one player. Anthopolous is a strong believer in efficiency, and there’s nothing less efficient than the winning bid on a free agent contract.
Trade Soto for Byron Buxton
He seems like a greedy SOB. No other team will pay him more. He’ll be lucky if he gets a 1/3 of that.
1/3 of that? The big markets will definitely give him 400+
derp
There are literally 18 players making more than that right now. And most of them are not nearly as good as him.
not for 15 years guaranteed! That does count for something. Are you getting last years stud? or this years ordinary. For that type of money, a .240 batting average isnt going to cut it. Need to be above average in EVERYTHING.
Batting Average is a neanderthal stat.
LMAO. Thanks PK24. That was the funniest thing I have read all day.
FANS – PAY THE MAN!!!!
ALSO THE FANS – TICKET PRICES ARE SO HIGH. GREEDY OWNERS!
Owners don’t run a charity. Don’t like it, don’t go to a game. Or buy your own team and let fans dictate how much you should spend.
Right over your head huh?
I have Tigers going after him. Something that starts with Greene and atleast 3-4 prospects, doesn’t matter what level they’re currently playing at in my mind.
Maybe they can trade Austin Meadows for him. DetroitDave84 would lose his mind.
The Giants desperately need a young superstar. They have a ton of financial flexibility, with even more $ coming off of the books.
I’d love to be privy to their upper management/ownership conversations.
The Nats can basically get any offer they want for him. He still has two years of control left. That said, I’d try to trade him now. Get the most value from the deal and get the young players into your system. Why hold onto him for two years if you probably won’t compete and teams will start to think they can wait til free agency?
Because they plan to compete soon, and he’s the centerpiece of that.
He’ll be a Giant. Farhan is under pressure to do something big.
Plus the Giants have the Farm System to make it happen. And I don’t think it only has to be prospects. There are a few Major League Giants who have substantial value that would speed the Nationals rebuild.
So many people here are really good friends with Juan Soto. Crazy to see! How else would y’all know his thought process?
Do the Giants have enough? They definitely have a ton of $ available.
Luciano and Harrison would be a good start but after that their farm drops off quick. Matos looked really good prior to this season but he’s apparently forgotten how to play baseball.
That contract would have only had the 20th highest AAV. That’s a joke of an offer. It sounds a lot better because of the total value, but this dude is 23 years old and can get that money in half the years. Not only that, but the team sucks and they’ve done a half-a’d job of trying to build around him
This contract would put him below:
Scherzer, Cole, Trout, Correa, Strasburg, Rendon, Lindor, Bauer, Verlander, Greinke Arenado, Seager, Cabrera, Price, Kershaw, Betts and Machado. (Note: Scherzer and Kershaw had two contracts each with a higher AAV)
Are you smoking meth? Sure sounds like it
@Chris G. “Can get that money in half the years” – That comes out to a 55M AAV. I don’t know about that.
I know that was a stretch, I said it tongue in cheek. But the same idea applies. He could take a 7 year deal at $300 million and become a free agent again at 30. And that still wouldn’t be the highest AAV in baseball.
Chris clearly was exaggerating. But, what he says is completely correct. People here are far too literal in interpretation of whats being said.
I get the AAV part of it, but at the same time it’s 440M guaranteed regardless of how you perform in the next 15 years. That’s the crazy part to me. Personally, give me the deal with an opt out after year 5. Bank 150M in 5 years…if I’m still a superstar I can cash in and if I’m not, 150M is plenty to live a nice and easy life. Not blaming Soto at all, but it is a risk.
And he could get injured and lose all the rest. Or the rest of the league could figure him out and make him just another player. That has happened to plenty of guys like Soto in the past. This is not a business when you are guaranteed t stay at the top for the long term. So if someone offers you a 15 year deal, you take it. I mean with the amount of money we are talking about here, all it really equates to is a slightly bigger pile. The difference between $440 million and $500 million is basically nothing because you’d never spend it all in a lifetime. And if you DID, then that extra $60 million won’t matter either.
@Starvin When you’re reading text with no background whatsoever on the person commenting, exaggeration is hard to conclude. I’ve read plenty of comments that were dead ass serious on here.
StarvinMarvin14 mins ago
Chris clearly was exaggerating.
=====================================
I’ll exaggerate for effect, but Chris wasn’t adding anything to the conversation by suggesting that the Nats were only offering him half of what he was worth.
If Soto gets paid $50M over the next two, then it becomes a $400M/13 contract. At that point, my guess is that the market gives him something like $480M/12, maybe less. And he has to gamble that he stays healthy for 2.5 seasons. The $450M is not off by very much if you include the health and performance risk.
Joe I thought you were one of the more reasonable around here. As soon as I read it, I understood his point. I didn’t Need him to restate the obvious.. But the next line accuses him of being on Meth. Should I are that literally? People come to knit pick each other’s sentences, instead of discussing baseball. That’s what I’m saying.
You obviously have never heard of insurance and don’t realize who his agent is.
You don’t pay bills or buy houses or make investments with AAV.
So if I take home $30M per, I still can’t pay my bills?
Not half, but $440 million over 12-13 years is realistic. People forget that he is making $17 million this year, will make $25+ million next year, and $30 million in 2024 in arbitration. The $29.3 million AAV the Nats offered him is not the raise that most players get when they hit FA. Its less than what he will make in his final year of arbitration. Why would he take less than what he will already be earning??
If only the White Sox were willing to make real moves…
Look out Von Hayes!
Juan Soto rejects a $440 million offer. Juan effing Soto lolol
One of the best pure hitters you have ever seen and you think he’s garbage.
I beg of you to buy a clue sometime.
Soto is one of the best pure hitters you’ve ever seen? You must be 15 years old and you enjoy the stupid little dance he does in the batter’s box when he takes pitches.
I never said anywhere that I think Soto is garbage, but keep making things up. I just don’t understand why so many people believe Soto is a “once in a generation” player.
Yes, he’s a good hitter, but he hasn’t been THAT impressive in his young career. And, I don’t care how much he walks. If you want $450 to $500 million dollars, you’d better be putting up 60 HRs, 60 doubles and 150 RBI every season. Soto hasn’t come anywhere near that type of production.
He also isn’t fast and he’s not a very good defensive player.
The only thing I care about is that the Yankees don’t trade for this guy and give him some insane contract that stretches over 10+ years. Let some other team paralyze their payroll for 1 player who won’t justify the size of the deal, no matter how good he is. I’d rather Hal spend $45 million/yr on 2 to 3 solid players than one supposed “star”
He has to strawman because he’s not capable of formulating an actual response. I think you’re being generous with 15…or at least I hope that’s the case.
Oh look, A’sfan in the comments triggered by someone with a differing opinion. Color me shocked.
He never said anything about him being garbage. You should learn to read.
Thank you
Trea Turner is going to be so happy to play with Juan Soto again.
This issue isn’t the total the issue is the AAV snd being on a Nats club that’s in the earlier stages of a rebuilding era.
I think 15 years/$555M would’ve gotten it done. Might’ve even taken 15 years/$577.5M.
Basically the current largest AAV’s plus an extra $1-2M per season, so that there’s no major discount and as the contract ages he doesn’t feel underpaid by a bunch later- which is exactly what $29.333M AAV feels like in this current market, let alone a market 5 or 10 years down the line.
AAV’s become more affordable over more years so guys have gotten wise to this and want to be paid something that will age/inflate over the lifetime of a deal in such a way that keeps their compensation fair in tomorrow’s market as well as yesterday’s and today’s. It’s why Greinke opted out of his Dodgers deal and got that deal in Arizona. Etc.
Trillionaire = Scott Boras
Get a grip, dude
You first, snowwy.
Scott Boras is the good guy and everyone who thinks otherwise is just believing billionaire team owner propaganda. Siding with long term billionaires over short term millionaires, why? Cowardice? Jealousy? Nah, its you, not them, not the game. You are the issue. Look in the mirror sometime, then go outside and touch grass.
I’m not saying you are right or wrong, but you’re not convincing anyone by just saying “snowflake” and “touch grass” all the time.
Why? It’s what they are and what they need to do?
It blows my mind when fans get mad at players trying to squeeze more money out of the greedy billionaires, who are doing everything in their power (including creating propaganda to convince the media that the players+Boas are in the wrong, and the billionaires making more money is better, actually, and the media often will frame this interaction like this) to not pay them anything.
It blows my mind when fans get mad at players trying to squeeze more money out of the greedy billionaires,
================================
It blows my mind when some folks treat this as a rich v poor issue. It’s a billionaire v a half-billionaire.
Viva Che and all that.
I appreciate the kind words.
You’re unbelievably jealous of the owners. Is it because you lack the skills and brainpower necessary to become one? Or is it because they utilized their talents and invested wisely the majority of their life, while you spent your time whining on random websites about how greedy they are?
You seriously have the emotional maturity of a child.
How much work was it to be born into the Steinbrenner or Illich families?. You shouldn’t generalize.
@baseball classic- What are you even mad about? I think *you* need to get a grip.
I’m not mad about anything, just laughing at the ridiculous #s Trillionaire always throws out.
There is absolutely no way to quantify/justify paying 1 player – ANY one player – $550+ million over 15 years. His comments and financial prognostications are infantile and laughable.
Just his moniker shows he’s a person not to be taken seriously. He’s either 14 years old, really stupid or a player rep/agent trolling on these boards.
$35M+ is the new floor for the most in demand players. 10 years from now it’ll be $40M. 5 years from now it’ll probably be $37-38M, so if he gets a $38.5M AAV and the free agency years are valued at $40.5M, that’s just par for the course for his tier of free agent player in the next half decade or more. He clearly isn’t giving them a discount. And if you’re asking if I am Scott Boras…. Are you part of Nats ownership trying to save a few hundred grand a year one player to sign a draftee or a complimentary piece on the league minimum?
Why do you care if a guy gets $30M or $35M or $40M?
Might’ve even taken 15 years/$577.5M.
================================
I am quite certain that he’d have taken that. But assuming that Soto gets $50M over the next two in arbitration, then you would be paying him $527.5M/13. He’s not worth it.
They would have probably had a deal at 15/525 or $35 million AAV. The $29.3 million AAV the Nats offered is less than Soto will earn in his final year of arbitration in 2024.
Let’s be honest, the Mets, Yankees, Dodgers and maybe Red Sox or Angels will give him the kind of money he wants and deserves. It would be smart to trade him if you are the nats because you could put a huge dent in that rebuild
And then what? Trade those guys after 3 years? The system is broken when only 4-5 teams can afford the best players. The whole thing is going to fail and fail miserably before too long.
What? No team has less than $250 million in revenue for 2022 and 14 will top $460 million. The small market Padres have TWO $300 million players. The Twins have a $35 million AAV player. MLB revenue is over $12 billion now and growing. The system is not broken. To the contrary, its working just fine or billionaires would not be throwing out offers like the ones Soto got and the $43 million AAV Scherzer got. .
@toothpick
If you havent been paying attention, neither the Yankees nor Red Sox have been paying the big dollars of late. Story’s signing was a way of not having to pay Bogearts the larger amount he would cost.. Yes, they probably could Afford it, but they are going a different direction at the moment. How much the Dodgers have available may be determined by any Grievance that Bauers files against them.
Got it, we’ll make an offer including Drew Waters and waitttttttt….. we traded him and a couple other decent prospects for a draft pick…. Smh
No reason to trade for him if you can afford to keep him! The fact that your farm is now barren is secondary.
That’s a tough bit of money to reject. I’d come back with 15/480 with a 5 year opt out clause. DC is a great place to live if you ignore the political nonsense (on both sides so no responses about ideology). And Nats stadium is a great venue for baseball.
DC is a traffic choked hellhole
Have you ever lived there? I have. The Metro system is amazing. There’s nowhere you can’t get on the train. I rarely drove when I lived in DC.
I love the random brotherhood with the Bay Area BART system and DC’s metro. Very similar train systems. A drunk friend from DC and I rode BART and he kept saying “here’s my stop–ahh wait no Im in California”
Never used BART but my brother has. It sounds very similar. I had 2 cars when I lived in DC and they were rarely used. I rode the train every day across the river into the city for work. Weekends we sometimes rode with our bikes on the train and pedaled around the city.
Including Nationals Park. The Metro lets you off half a block from the place.
1985 – seeing no response to my question, I assume you have never lived in DC and are just making an uninformed comment to be controversial.
Turn off the right wing media. You will feel less angry.
huh? You fit a lot of inaccurate assumptions in a short comment.
Oh, geg…
Boston needs a big lefty bat more than anyone. They have the trade chips, 1b Casas, 2b Yorke, SS Mayer (21′ Rd1#4). They could pivot and sign Bogaerts and Devers and have this year and the next 2 to go for it now.
You aren’t wrong, Boston is definitely in the running if they want to be if that’s the starting offer. Mayer is a huge prospect.
REALLY ! HAVE YOU SEEN THE RIGHT HEAVY JAYS LINEUP
DESPERATE FOR A LEFTY BAT!
Not impossible, but I just don’t see the Sox pitching as being in the go-for-it-now category.
Greed is slowly destroying the game.
How is one player being traded “destroying the game”?
Ownership greed is always to blame for every MLB problem. Every team should have several, like in MLB’s case, 5-10 guys on $100+M deals, like the NBA has (although with smaller roster sizes, obviously).
@AUK The Rays aren’t bringing in 500M+ year on revenue.
You understand gate revenue doesn’t = overall team revenue, right? There’s like 5000 micro economies based off the Rays/MLB that all earn the owners money. Also it doesn’t matter, the supreme court long ago decided MLB was a sport, not a business – the owners aren’t supposed to be making money, they’re supposed to win.
The Rays owners can 100% afford to field a 40 man roster that gets paid a minimum of $500M, every year. Easily.
@AUK – Understand it completely. Collectively, the MLB isn’t generating 15B a year. That’s actually a fact from when they released their numbers in 2019 (~11B). So what exactly are you basing it off of other than assumptions?
Hmmm, where exactly did I say “one player”?
Who is being greedy here? Washington offered $29.333M per season which is WAY undervalue, plus inflation would make that contract look even sillier in 5 seasons. Just because it’s a lot of total money doesn’t make it a good deal. I guarantee multiple teams out there would be happy to give him at least 5/225M today and that would be a much better deal than 15/440M.
Well because of the way salaries are changing and seemingly skyrocketing as time goes on, a player needs to make up his mind as to length of contracts and how time changes the average value for players signing new contracts while you’re stuck with your old one…….WOW what a problem to try and figure out whether you can or can’t live with $29 million a year for 15 years when you’re 23 years (we think) old.
Juan Soto for Jo Adell straight up. Angels say no.
Soto is exactly the kind of player Moreno would overpay for when he needs pitching.
Maybe not though, Soto is several tiers above the washed up all-stars Moroneno targets
Good point. We’ll grab him after his 15 year contract is up and pay him a record deal to suck for 10 years.
Exactly!
This will never happen, but imagine if they trade him to Baltimore, for a package with Rodriguez and Henderson? That AL East would be NUTS.
add Austin Hays and a few more and you got a deal.
Soto on that Orioles team would make them big time contenders.
Would be quite a statement move for the Orioles. However, without an extension you would be declaring the rebuild “over” and be expected to contend and I’m not sure the O’s are there yet
I bet the Cubs wished they had enough prospects to offer up. I’d bet they’d be willing to pay $35M per season over 15 years…
Rejected $440 million? What an idiot
Nope. Just $29.333M AAV. He can get more than that elsewhere without committing to so many years.
Maybe, but aren’t his defensive numbers terrible? Is a team willing to pay more than $440 million for a player who is destined to just be a DH?
@mrnotsoniceguy- the Nationals we’re a $100 million short with their offer. Why is he an idiot because he doesn’t want to be a National anymore? Why in the hell would someone want to sign long-term with this low-balling team? You’re not making any sense, as usual again.
@Captain J
If he didnt want to play for the Nats, he would cut off negotiations. This is entirely about money. What he is producing on the field this year is not likely to persuede other teams he is worth more than that. If he wants a higher AAV, he will need to cut the number of years..
Frist Harper, now Soto – when you could have had both? What a dumb franchise – they never deserved that ring. Too dumb at the top.
One has nothing to do with the other. Of any champs, they deserve it considering the hole they dug out of that year. 15/440 is a decent offer. I don’t blame the team.
“Digging yourself out of a hole” should literally never = title winner
Real title winners are elite teams who dominate everyone out of the gate. Nats just got lucky that year, being that THIS is how incompetent things are at the top. I do know they played well in October that year, but for me, real no-doubt champs play and dominate all 6+ months.
Real title winners are the teams that win titles. Nationals, Dodgers, Braves come to mind.
I disagree, UK. Their rotation was one of the best in baseball that year. They earned that championship by making adjustments and improvements and never giving up. I was at the game the night they clinched a post season spot. They were a great team by that point of the season. I think they deserved to win it. I’d rather see a team like that then any team with deep pockets just trying to buy a championship. The 2014/2015 Royals are a good example also.
Each one of those teams have exactly one championship each in the new millennium (in the Nats case one in franchise history). By that logic it should be the Red Sox, Giants, and Cardinals
What logic are you referring to? Are you saying that you have to have more than one title to be a title winner? That’s illogical and incorrect.
One championship in 33 in LA. One championship in 26 years for the Braves. One championship ever for the Nationals. When you say “title winners” and list three teams that have combined for 3 championships in over three decades its hard to think of them as “title winners” (unless the title is “underachiever”)
You could throw in Turner and Scherzer as well, although I think they got the best out of Mad Max.
Harper was probably not gonna sign an extension with the Nats either way. Now Soto will leave. He’ll probably get 20mil more with 3 less years.
How much money do you want them to spend? And how would you put quality players around them?
I’m glad Harper left. I will not be happy if Soto leaves.,
Go on Rays, trade 10 prospects for Soto, keep him for two years, then let him walk. Maybe TB could finally get a championship…
(I’m half kidding. Half not. I’d just like to see the Rays really, actually go all out for it just once…)
Yankees
Not if they are paying Judge. These are Hal’s Yankees not George’s.
@metsie- a Soto signing has nothing to do with Judge. Let’s stop pretending the Nationals are trading Soto to the Mets. Newsflash: It’s not happening. If any team has a chance to trade for Soto you just do it. No questions asked.
If Judge leaves in free agency you can bet the Yankees will jump in, but there is no way they pay Cole, Stanton, Judge, and Soto
The Nationals will probably field initial offers now to gauge Soto’s market but a deal will not happen before the trade deadline. Any acquiring team will want Soto to sign an extension as part of the trade and that would be very hard to pull off in a short timespan. All eyes will be on this situation this winter and I fully expect Soto to be wearing a different uniform on opening day
HE. IS. GOING. NOWHERE.
Soto is definitely going somewhere by 2025. It’s a matter of whether the Nationals want a haul or a compensation pick when they watch him leave
Yeah, like Freeman!
Farhan needs this.
That’s an insane amount of money to turn down. Wonder if there were any opt outs. Definitely a full no trade clause.
But less AAV than expected. Nats gave their mega-contract to Stasburg and have to watch Soto,Harper and Turner on other teams.
Strasburg’s “mega” contract is $245 million. That’s almost $200 million less than this offer. And for more than half the time.
Remember, a new owner is on the horizon. The Lerners are selling (though I think they might retain a small percentage.) The new owner will want Soto on the team, and the new owner will be much more able to pay him.
Soto isn’t up for free agency for a couple more years, so it’s not like he’s likely to be traded. If he’s still not signed two years form now, they’ll have to look into it. I think he will be.
And FWIW, his brother has an agreement with the Nats to sign with them.
It was 7 years $245 million. Less than half the years, well over half the money. $29.3 million AAV is a joke considering Soto will earn more than $30 million in his final year of arbitration. Soto is gone. Just face it.
@Tim Phares
Knowing what the price is for Soto, I’m guessing the franchise will have more value without that long term obligation, and the new owners wont want to be the responsible party for getting rid of the current face of the franchise (not that hes actually been there long enough for that claim). Dumping payroll has been a common response to preparing a franchise for sale.
Soto looks like he will be a headache for any team moving forward. Then again, Harper had the ego too but now he matured.
It’s gotta be the hair Cotton.
From all accounts Soto is an excellent teammate.
No, he hasn’t. He’s still an egotistical prig.
Why does this make him a headache?
What a serious bummer to wake up to….
Giants.
So they have a farm system to pull from…since when? I don’t think they can make it work.
This is an interesting on. Many of the usual suspects Yankees, Mets, Dodgers,
Angels already have huge commitments and are stretched even for them. On top of that, the Nats, no doubt will want cheap controllable pieces.
Maybe the Giants or Padres? The Padres also owe some big money for Machado and Tatis. This is not going to be easy as some people think
Dodgers payroll shrinks to $151 million next season.
And they keep all the same players? I doubt that! So with the shrunken payroll they are going to have to spend to replace the players or re-sign the ones they want. Their payroll will be very high no matter Soto on board or not.
They might go after a free agent SS? There’s plenty of room for a Soto extension.
@Mets-Padres definitely have the pieces to make this work, plus tons of money coming off the books over the next two offseasons..I can definitely see it happening..in fact, I’d say the Padres might be the favorites considering the whole package..
Smart decision by Soto. The Nationals made a crappy offer just to say they offered a lot so fans see soto as greedy. He is worth at least $40 million per year and will get it from any number of teams. Good for him
He’s not getting 40 million a year for 15 years
He’s a corner outfielder that’s lackluster in the field. Imagine how he’ll be even 10 years from now
But he might be able to get 42m a year over 10 years. Be a FA again at age 33/34 and if he’s still good get another 3/90 type deal. Is smart to turn the deal down unless the Nats offered $500m+.
Or he could sign a 3 year deal with the Twins for $1MM more than Correa did with 3 opt outs, just so he doesnt have to sit out a year.
Time for the Tigers to make an offer similar to what they did to acquire Miggy from the Marlins in December 2007. Send them Mize, Tokelson, Rogers, Foley, Dylan Smith, Parker Meadows and Victor Reyes….Boras and the Tigers work well together, so a 12 yr/$400M contract with opt outs at years 3, 5, 8 and 10 may work
Wikipedia says Juan Soto’s younger brother Elian is a third baseman and outfielder who has a verbal agreement to sign with the Nationals organization as an international free agent once he is eligible in January 2023. I wonder if that deal is dead considering the recent news about Juan.
“transcendent superstar”?
You don’t know ball if you think that’s wrong. He’s one of the greatest pure hitters we’ve seen, but you don’t agree? You might not know baseball then. Why post here?
Stop projecting.
one of the greatest
.246 avg. not worth it
.405 OBP, .427 lifetime. Definitely worth it.
Pages, Pepiot, Bellinger, to start, then anyone not named Cartaya or Busch, some tea leaves and contracts and money and stick this kid in RF for the next decade.
It will take all 5 of those guys imo. Nats aren’t in a rush.
Look up Jeff Passan tweets. He stated each organization has a “point/money value” system for players.
Juan Soto’s point value is 193.7
For the Dodgers to equal that value,he says the deal would include the following players leaving the Dodgers and heading to Washington: Point values in ( )
Diego Cartaya (56.2)
Gavin Lux (37.6)
Dustin May (30.1)
Bobby Miller (28.7)
Gavin Stone (19.1)
Miguel Vargas (26.9)
For a Dodger team that is currently a World Series favorite that is built to be a favorite for the next few years, this seems like an awful lot to pay. I don’t see it happening.
I agree. I am guessing Nats end up not getting offers they like and keep trying to work out a contract and if not trade him next trade deadline for close to what they are going to get offered the next two weeks.
why would Cartaya be involved when they’ve already got super prospect Ruiz catching? Within that group there is no Pepiot, Pages, Busch, the list goes on….Dodgers have plenty of farm system to get it done without gutting.it.
I think it starts with May/ Gonsolin, Miller/ Pepiot, maybe Lux or Pages. Whatever the case may be, it will be painful for any team trading for Soto. I don’t like it. When he hits free agency, there will be quite a few other teams that could get involved.
Imo.
What teams can afford to pay him more than the Nationals just offered? At least half, if not 3/4 of MLB have already been eliminated, as it makes no sense to trade a “haul” to let him walk in 2 years. Sure, you could trade him again, but then youre moving a “haul” for just one playoff season.
Ok Padres, time to empty the tank! CJ Abrams, Robert Hassell, Luis Campusano, Reiss Knehr, Ryan Weathers, Dinelson Lamet and Wil Myers or Hosmer for Soto.
With that offer, looks like the tank is already empty.
Lol! Well there’s others, but start low and negotiate from there. How about we bring Strasburg and that nasty contract back to SD along with Nelson Cruz, but they gotta take both Hosmer and Myers.
Tatis for Soto makes way too much sense let’s get this done
Steve Cohen will offer Baty plus 2 others not named Francisco Alvarez and will take on Strasbergs dead weight contract.
Have to imagine that would be interested for the Nats. That contract is a killer.
Any team willing to take Strasburg with Soto probably wouldn’t need to add more than a lottery ticket or two.
I understand the AAV on this contract would be fairly low, but that’s an absurd amount of money to turn down.
Absurdly low. The AAV on that offer is less than Soto will make in his final year of arbitration in 2024.
Tatis for Soto…
Who you got from the following:
(Not necessarily for a trade, but for signing Soto)
Red Sox
Mets
Giants
Cubs
Padres
White Sox
Cardinals
Rangers
Yankees
Dodgers
Not the White Sox.
Nationals.
Mets #1. Dodgers #2. Yankees will be in the mix. .
Lets see…@Positively Broad
Red Sox and Bloom dont operate that way. They are out.
Mets will be interested.
Giants are unlikely as this is not how they have operated.
Cubs will be interested.
Padres feel Hosmer and Myers contracts are binding them. How will they afford Soto?
White Sox have no payroll currently. Likely to be in a salary cut mode.
Not the Cardinals style at all.
Rangers are already at record Payroll. How far are you expecting them to go?
Yankees only if Judge walked.
Dodgers will depend on their needs and payroll at that time.
Small market as he has outpriced himself before reaching FA, much like Correa.
9/390M, he’ll should be able to get 3/100M+ after that And still have some earning potential left at 35 years old. Wouldn’t take their offer either if I was Juan.
Biggio, Bichette and Kirk from the Jays For Soto
Baseball trade simulator accepted the deal
MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!
How many teams can afford him at over $440m. The Mets, Dodgers…. The Yankees don’t spend that kind of money anymore. Who’s left?
Giants?
And this, boys and girls, is why I hate baseball. The rich get richer. The teams with all the money aren’t good enough already that they have to spend more. The teams that are good enough without spending tons of money get left in the dust. Baseball has to figure this out. Lord knows, I don’t have any answers. Well, actually I do, but baseball would never do it.
Agreed. And if you are thinking salary cap and baseball would never do it you would be right. Baseball is indeed broken but like many it’s a great game and I stick with it.
The Astros selected 3B Phil Nevin from Cal State Fullerton with the first pick; their scouting director preferred Jeter, but Nevin was going to cost Houston less money, prompting them to take Nevin first overall.
Cleveland took North Carolina RHP Paul Shuey at No. 2, Mississippi State LHP B.J. Wallace went No. 3 to the Expos, then Stanford OF Jeffrey Hammonds was selected at No. 4 by the Orioles.
The Reds were all that stood between the Yankees and Jeter, and as Groch recalled, Cincinnati “seemed to be spending the most time with the player.”
Yet when the pick came in, the Reds took Central Florida OF Chad Mottola at No. 5.
“From what I was told, it was an economic situation,” Groch said. “The high school player was going to cost him more than Chad Mottola; the scout that had that area was absolutely shocked that they did not make Jeter their choice ahead of us.”
I’m actually not for a salary cap. I’m for the probation of both management and fanbase.
Five years of terrible records and you sell the team. Five years of terrible attendance and you move the team. The trick is in setting the standards. But enough already.
What a whiner.
Can you imagine 30 major league teams run by competent people and attended by loyal fans?
No, I’m not a whiner.
Your plan would result in chaos, not competence. 30 teams simply trying not to lose, rather than trying to win. Avoiding last place would replace the goal of actual success.
If you hate it, then go. Scoot. Don’t let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya. Adios. Sayonara.
I’m talking extremely bad performance and/or attendance, this is not some get rid of teams no matter what. If you lose 100 games five years in a row, you are not a major league team. If you draw 10,000 fans a game for five years in a row, why are you playing there? It wouldn’t be confusing or change motivations. It would simply be out with the really bad. Again, I made up those numbers for demonstration, they’re not necessarily the right ones.
All due respect, suddenly you’re talking in complete hypothetical theory. What team has ever lost 100 games five years in a row?
switch favorite teams to one which has money
Soto is a great player but he still to me hasn’t proven that he can put a team on his back and carry them to a championship.
Where were you in 2019?
Who won the World Series in 2019?
This in not the NBA. One player on a 26 man roster cannot win a title. If so Trout would have a ring
That’s why I wouldn’t sign him. The team he is currently on has the worst record in the majors. One player just doesn’t make that much difference in baseball. Before Soto, there was Stanton, and he never had a .500 season with Miami. Before Stanton, there was Cabrera, and the Tigers haven’t made the playoffs in 8 years. Harper, Trout?
You need a lot of players to be a good team.
This absolutely breaks my heart, but with a franchise that’s on the brink of being sold, a farm system that is putrid at best, and a team that might not even get 45 wins this year, trading Soto is smarter than investing the majority of future payroll in him… especially since that payroll is already weighed down by Corbin’s terrible contract, Strasburg’s injury plagued MVP encore, and Scherzer’s deferred payments.
The Lerners will get a good bit more money for the team if Soto is on it than if he isn’t.
Having Soto on the team will not matter one bit in the sales price. Its about revenue and profitability. Nothing else.
Tbh I wouldn’t wanna work or live in or around Washington DC either.
Don’t blame the Nationals at all.
If that $440 million offer is not enough to make sign then it’s time to save your organization of going higher & weighing down your franchise.
I’d love to see him on the Braves. They don’t have the prospects so it won’t happen, but it sure would be fun. I predict San Diego.
Trading away many good players for one great one. Never been a fan of that idea unless you are a deep pocket team who can just go out and buy what they want if trades or farm system does not pan out.
As a fan of a team that always had good but never great players, you need a great player. Otherwise you’ll be like me waiting over 20yrs to see the postseason.
Yes but then you have to trade a lot of your good players thus lowering your teams quality. Also If Soto get seriously hurt 60 day or more not only do you not have all those good players you sent out but obviously the great player you traded for. Anyway as I stated unless I am the GM of Mets, Dodgers, Yankees with deep pockets I am not making a trade for Soto. Fun stuff to consider though.
Here’s my absolute take it or leave it offer to the Nats
Moreno, Groshans, Bichette, Gurriel Jr, plus an A ball lotto ticket or two.
They can turn around and trade Bichette for more prospects in a year or two or even right after acquisition.
If they believe in Ruiz, Trade Moreno for a haul of SP or vice versa
You get an OF replacement in Lourdes who’s also a tradeable commodity for your rebuild and Groshans can play SS or 3B in your rebuild
You could turn Soto into genuine peices that not only accelerate your rebuild. But probably start contending within 5 years easily
Edit:
On the condition Soto signs 15/501 (he must want to break 500)
I’d take that and run if I were the Nats. Bichette’s WAR for his control years will be roughly equal to Soto’s WAR, due to the extra year of control. Ruiz could be an issue, but how hard would it be to get a team like the RS to throw in a substantial prospect for Ruiz (or Moreno)?
Or the Nats could just rotate Ruiz and Moreno at C/DH/1B.
This one has Yankees written all over it!!! Get it done cash get it done
It needs to be noted that Soto is not a good outfielder. If his routes don’t improve he’ll likely end up playing first base and/or DH. So long as he’s an elite hitter, he’s worth a long-term commitment, I suppose…
Soto is an exactly league average RF over his career according to DRS and a slightly below average in OAA (StatCast). He is not a BAD right fielder. He is not Betts, but he is also not Castellanos. He will spend the next 3-4 years in the OF at a minimum.
What would it take? three or four top-100 guys plus some MLB-ready talent?
whoever gets soto will be a minimum of 5 players if not more.stay away braves.246avg.lol,when was last time,dodgers,Yankees,mets with all money won a world series,fake 2020 covid don’t count
BA is a neanderthal stat. .405 OBP, .895 OPS.
160 OPS+ this year is exactly his career average. 60% better than MLB average.
Keep in mind that the players that get drafted next week can be traded during this coming off-season. So a trade consumated at the trade deadline can have player(s) to be named later that could turn out to be from this year’s draft pool. They certainly will be immediately available for trade during the hot stove time of the year.
Nats trying to cover for a below-market AAV with total dollars.
Soto for Hays, Santander, Prieto, Hall, Cowser, Mayo, and Valdez. WSH gets Soto out of the NL and gets both near-term and younger pieces, while Baltimore jump-starts their contending period and retains guys like Henderson, Grayson, and Adley.
A deal that actually makes sense.
Or just offer to tear up the MASN contract
I don’t think the Os get Soto without massively overpaying. If they made that offer AND agreed to end the MASN nonsense then sure. Otherwise I don’t see the Lerners approving any deal of Soto to the Os that doesn’t include all of their top 10 prospects. May not be the best baseball move but billionaires are prickly.
No way BAL gets anything done without Henderson and Grayson as the STARTING POINT.
Othani is going to get $1 Billion isn’t he?
He can argue he is a $40 mil a yr P like Max and a $35 mil Bat like Harper… 12yrs × $75
Mil $900 mil (current value in 22 ) + 2 yrs of JBI (Joe Bidden Inflation) easy $1 Billion +
Has it been determined what it is going to take to get a deal done? Have counter offers from Soto’s camp been proposed? Is being the highest paid player at least part of the position from this player’s perspective?
This offer should be pretty close. Trout’s contract is 12 years, $426,500,000. The offer that was just made to Soto, if this report is accurate, would be one year longer and $13.5 million greater in total dollars. Add another $15-20 million to it and I think you’re right in the ballpark. This is not a final offer.
The offer Soto turned down was 15/440. $29.3 million AAV. Where you been?
Does this increase or decrease Aaron Judge’s leverage for his impending free agency contract?
I think we’ll be reading Juan Soto rumors weekly for at least a year. It’s going to take that long for a fair deal to be made.
Seattle is one big bat from true contention. Kirby, Kelenic, Hancock, Marte and probably another lottery ticket type. That should at least be a competitive offer.
Add Ford, Arroyo and Brash. Doubt the Nats want Kelenic.
Ford and Arroyo would take the place of Hancock and Marte. I could reasonably see throwing in Brash. But purely adding I’m Ford Arroyo and Brash would be taking the entire top 10 of a system. NO ONE is going to do that.
Well Kirby and Kelenic aren’t rookie eligible now, so they don’t “count” towards the top 10. Im guessing Marte, Ford, Brash + two or three of Arroyo, Kirby, Kelenic, Hancock is probably what it would take. Sounds insane to type it out. But that’s why I think a deal happens in the off-season. Nats will want to take their time making this type of deal unless they are just blown away with value.
This type of package is why I don’t think Soto is traded any time soon. While the Mariners would be a prime contender to add a bat like Soto’s, we’d be doing it at the expense of the long term health of the organization.
Seattle is already on its way to being a great team specifically BECAUSE it HASN’T made any moronic trades like this. Typical fan wants to blow up a perfectly good rebuild and kill a great plan that is working in order to destroy it all for one big name. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
Clearly the Marlins are going to trade Lopez, Meyer, Elieser Hernandez and Jesus Sanchez for Soto, then sign Soto to a 15=year $700 million deal…just so Sherman can make Jeter look bad.
And guess what, we still won’t go anywhere because the bullpen will still blow the leads that Soto helps us get.
Then pay the Yankees 30 million dollars to take him a year later
…then he gets injured for a few years before being healthy enough to play, then gets injured again and spends the rest of his career on and off the IL, thus the Yankees regretting the contract.
Yes, I’ll sign up for that trade again.
I wonder if Soto/Boras would accept a shorter deal with much higher AAV and a lot of opt-outs. Not exactly like Correa’s because he was a FA, but a similar concept.
Buy out the last two arb years, offer three more years for a lot/season, and then add five or six more with opt outs after each one.
Both sides win, potentially.
That would also give him a chance to see how the rebuild works out. And the new owners.
kinda makes you think of the familys tonight for dinner eating clear broth, bread and macaroni and cheese and he thinks hes worth More than almost half a billion dollars, like at what point do you look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself’ how much money do i truly need, am i really that kinda person’
god willing he will NEVER be on the red sox, hes not worth it, not with that view of himself.
Is he asking for more than half a billion?
He’ll easily clear that in his next contract.
He just rejected almost half a billion so it seems not inaccurate to assume he’s seeking “more than almost half a billion” at least, yea.
@cosmo2, I hear what you’re saying. Has his side put forth what their salary demands are, or just rejected overtures from the Nats at this point?
I don’t know anymore than you do I’m just making an assumption based on the numbers being thrown about. I could be wrong.
The offer as reported is $60 million shy of half a billion.
What about the billionaire owners? Why is this a Soto is greedy thing and not the owners being greedy for making an offer they knew he would reject?
Because it is Soto saying he won’t play baseball for $450 million?
Because he’s worth $550M over the same time frame?
Still, I won’t call Soto greedy, he’s just pushing for market value, but I also think it is reasonable as a regular person to be a little shocked at the idea of seeing a $440 million offer and being dissatisfied
Not true. He’s saying, “I’ll gamble on myself and be able to pick the city I live in for the next 10-15 years of my life. Maybe it will be DC , maybe it will be elsewhere. I’m interested in staying but you’ll have to pay closer to what I think the market will be for my services when I’m a 25 year old free agent.”
There is nothing wrong with him saying that. He turned down being the 20th highest paid player, and would only drop further down the list as he presumably gets even better towards his prime 25-29 age years.
As a Nats fan I’d love for him to take it. But this is a business and he’s making a smart business decision.
Since the start of 2021, Dwayne Johnson has earned $480M. I don’t see any of his fans complaining.
Walgreens will trade Yasiel Puig and the trademark rights to the ‘W’ for Soto. They’ll sign Soto to a lifetime billion dollar deal to become the new trademark. Walgreens goes on to have the greatest Beer League co-ed softball team ever.
This reeks of Giancarlo Stanton contract
I smell it too…except he hasn’t had the injury history yet like Stanton had by the time that Loria gifted Stanton that contract…before Jeter “gifted” it to the Yankees.
Stanton’s contract isn’t that bad, in hindsight.
He’s tied at 33rd highest AAV with 10 other players.
Whether of AAV ranking or not, you still want money like that on the field instead of the IL where Stanton spends a lot of time.
Where did you find that figure?
spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/
Stanton’s contract is bad because it’s backloaded. He’s paid his highest salaries in his age 33, 34 and 35 seasons and he’ll be paid as much when he’s 37 as he was paid when he was 28. His ability to hit the fastball is already in decline.
The Giants need a young superstar like Soto for many reasons, including getting people back into their park. Soto would be the face of the franchise for the next decade at least.
Maybe take over first base next year for Brandon Belt?
Not saying I disagree about acquiring Soto but they’d only be getting him for 2+ seasons. Can’t see the Giants offering more than the Nationals already have to extend him beyond that.
Thats a lot of coin to turn down but I’m sure the aav is what did it. I think long spendy contracts like that are far from being whats best to make a consistently winning organization but owners may look at the money that can be made off a single player they invest in vs a competitive franchise year in year out. It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next couple of years. I think the amount of money is rediculous in todays sports but thats a moot point no one would care about. Congrats to the young man, you are living the dream.
Told you so. He will be gone in 2 weeks. Angels? While I would love to see him in the lineup with Trout and Ohtani, I don’t think we have the necessary pieces. Who does and would be willing to part with 2-3 top 100 prospects plus a young MLB player?
Preller.
With Myers coming off the books, Hosmer’s salary dropping to $13 million, and ownership willing to fork out the bucks you may be right. They certainly have the prospects.
Plus, Preller is willing to take chances, and give out big contracts.
Not. going. anywhere.
Might want to read the articles about it. They are all saying its a done deal. Either now or in the offseason. I think it will be now, He certainly won’t start the 2023 in a Nats uni.
All I can say is, don’t let Seattle get him
And we have the inventory AND currency to get the deal done
The Mariners would be a great landing spot for Soto. Young team on the verge of being very good.
Prediction: any team that gives up its best prospects (it’s gonna take A LOT) AND signs him to an annual value that is about 1/3 of their budget is going to get a superstar. They’re also going to have an impossible task of building a winner around him in the future without controllable youngsters or payroll flexibility. Or, I suppose they get clever and find a way to do it but it will take some original thought. Signing big name free agents will have to be out of the equation thereafter.
Sounds like a traditional Mets move to me. As a Marlins fan, I would endorse Bobby Bonilla advising Soto to sign a major deal with the Mets. I figure $600 million for Soto and a 7-year $210 million for Nimmo, and the Mets will be set for years in their division…whether it’s the current division or the potential expansion regional version when they will be in the same division as the Yankees, Red Sox and Phillies/Blue Jays.
Cohen might do it. If any team can it’s the Mets. They are in a position to win now but within a few years they’ll be a complete mess if they give him what he wants. Remains to be seen if Cohen understands baseball or just money.
This is why Seattle (oddly) makes so much sense. Whether they can get him is a different question, but he fits perfectly into their club’s window and payroll.
It’s why Seattle doesn’t make sense. You don’t bring him in at the expense of your entire farm system that would then have nothing to come up and supplement the roster with for the next decade.
Dump him. Tired of these guys who will make more money than 100’s of people, and in his case never have to work again at 38. Trade him
Tired of these guys who will make more money than 100’s of people,
==============================
Easy solution:
Don’t watch professional sports.
Don’t go to high-end concerts
Don’t go to the movies with real movie stars in them
Don’t use MS products
Don’t use Apple products
Etc.
Trammel, Kelenic, Marcus Wilson and Emerson Hancock for Soto and some salary relief. Now shut up and give us the trophy
yes get rid of the kelenic drama
Not remotely close IMO. If he is traded, and I doubt he will be anytime before the offseason, it’s is going to be painful for the acquiring team.
Rejecting that offer was not about the money, it was about Soto and Boras looking at the Nationals being for sale, the current roster with big and unmovable contracts, and a depleted farm system and knowing they can’t win for the next 3-4 years. Soto wants to play for rings.
What big, unmovable contracts? Strasburg’s isn’t all that big or long, and Corbin is even less money and a year shorter.
The new owner is going to be a gazillionaire. Think of it from his perspective. Do you pay more for the team with or without Soto? The answer is that it’s worth more with him. The Lerners know that; so does the new owner.
In addition, the corrupt Angelos family can’t hold up the MASN money the Nats are entitled to forever. That’s a nice chunk of change.
Your assessment of the Nationals chances is wrong. The farm system isn’t top-level, but it’s not depleted. There are numerous excellent prospects. Also, there is young talent incoming for Cruz, Bell, and a couple of years to go with the good young talent acquired last year. I could see the Nats being a fringy contender next year, and a real contender in 2024. They’ll be back to contention soon.
There is every reason to keep Soto in DC.
What exactly is a gazillionaire? Soto alone being on the team is not a factor in the price of a team. Revenue and profitability are what matters. The Nats are in the bottom half of MLB in attendance this season and I doubt that will change much just because Soto is traded. Most of a team’s revenue is TV anyway, so the group buying the team is not going to care if they sell a few less tickets while saving the $55 they would have been paying Soto to be on their losing teams in 2023 and 2024.
And yes, the Nats are going to lose. In bunches. Last place for at least 2 more years even with Soto. The farm system has 2 top 100 prospects and neither is MLB ready. After that it is a steep drop off. There is no core of young, controllable players on the MLB level. There is Ruiz and Gray, Possibly you could consider Garcia one. That is it. 12 players will be FA at the end of the season. 4 everyday players are gone even if Soto stays.
Strasburg’s is making $35 million this year and $140 million over the next 4 seasons. He is constantly injured and has made just 8 starts total from 2020-2022. Corbin and his 5.87 ERA just stinks and after getting $24 this season, he is still owed $60 million in 2023-2024. It comes to $60 million per season that the Nats are paying those two this season and next, $70 million the year after that. Strasburg has two more years after Corbin is gone at $35 million each. The Nats are on the hook for all of that because they can’t trade those two contracts.
Soto is going to get his money in the end. The question is will he be with a winning team or not? Everything else being equal, he’ll choose a winning team.
Good move, Nationals. No player is worth that much for that length.
I agree BB is a team game more than an individual game! load up on good starting pitching. That wins in the playoffs,
Are you really going to do significantly worse on the return by dealing 1.5 or even .5 years of Soto, rather than 2.5 years?
If it were me, I would simply let everyone froth at the mouth over Soto for at least a full year, rejecting literally every offer this summer, and only beginning to legitimately consider a trade next summer.
I tend to agree and think WSH is going to keep trying to extend him until at least this off-season. You’re not getting anyone to offer the true value of 2.5 years of a superstar anyways because it’s so absurdly high – waiting until the off-season doesn’t hurt at all.
The rangers will definitely make an offer.willing to spend money.have a top 5 minor league system .star players at all levels of minor league system and young players ready at almost major leagues.
Just because the Nats are entertaining offers, doesn’t mean they will accept any of them, especially this summer. It much more likely he will be moved during the off-season.
I wouldn’t give Babe Ruth a half billion dollars. Nats are smart to move on. Let some other team make that mistake. Sometimes you just have to realize the girl is not interested in dating you.
Babe Ruth is dead, so…
Yea they’d have to pinch run for him a lot.
Who says they’re moving on?
A team is offering a half billion dollars to one player and yet the owners cry poverty.
I mean, if there is a trade, it’s gonna be a contingent from both Soto and the team that he signs an extension of some sort I would imagine. Honestly tho, if I’m a GM/owner? I want his prime, I don’t want the decline. I’ll give him 6-8 years at $300 million. Overpay for those prime years in order to get out from under Soto before he begins his 30’s decline which is near inevitable. Knowing Boras, he’s not taking that deal, but damn how much does he want? 15/$500m? 13-14/$450m? Like, I like Soto, don’t get me wrong, but he’s not Trout.
Bichette and 20-30 ranked pitching prospect for Soto.
Remember Bichette has 4 years control
Who says no?
Nationals.
The Indians got a post hype Ahmed Rosario and a guy who was falling in the Prospect rankings (Gimenez) for Francisco Lindor
Do all of you really think Soto is bringing back much more than that? Josh Bell has given the Nats as much value as Soto has this year
Lindor was 27 when he was traded with only 1 year of control left. Soto is in an entirely different category.
The only two teams I can see making the huge contract and having the boatload of prospects are the Yankees and Dodgers.
You have to figure:the core starting point for the Yankees would have to include:
Volpe or Peraza
Dominguez
Medina
For the Dodgers you have to figure the starting point is:
Miller
Pages
Vargas and/or Busch
The Dodgers have more prospects that fit the Nats needs and are closer to the majors so they have the edge.
Yanks have the 9th most valuable farm, and the Dodgers aren’t in the top 10.
Jonthunder – source?
The Yankees have 5 prospects on the top 100 list. None are top 10.
The Dodgers have 6 prospects on the top 100 list. None are top 10.
mlb.com/prospects/top100/
Volpe and Dominguez are considered untouchable. Sosa, being just 23, might change that equation. Even then, I don’t see the Yankees moving both of them,. Peraza, Dominguez, Medina, Schmidt, maybe Florial, Waldichuk. I could see somethign like that. Maybe instead of one of those guys, Andujar is a throw in.
Everyone in comments acting like they’d sign a $500K deal to work exclusively at one company for 15 years. Yeh, you’ll have stability, but will be short-changing yourself in the long run
Let’s not forget, Boras position players rarely, if ever, live up to monster contracts. Nats are better off trading him ASAP for Max value with two years of team control remaining. I feel bad for the fans of whatever team throws away money on him. With my luck it’ll be Arte
My guess is he wants to play in southern California and is willing to roll the dice.
Here’s a player who rejected making more than an entire team’s payroll. Yeah its not the highest salary, but crazy notion that a few teams would be passed by Sotos salary alone. And yes, Scherzer is already above a few teams’ payrolls. Its funny at either POV. A guy rejecting that offer, and 1 player passing a team’s payroll. Gee MLB, get it together.
They already said last month that they are NOT trading him. He’s the player they’re rebuilding around. I’d say he’s less likely to go anywhere than Reynolds is.
You might notice that this is media speculation that is not from relevant club officials. I would be SHOCKED if he goes anywhere.
Again, Soto is the centerpiece of the rebuilding. The new owners will want him on the team, and the Lerners destroy the value of the franchise they’re trying to sell if Soto isn’t part of it, no matter how ridiculous a haul they get in return.
Furthermore, he has said he wants to stay. And he has a couple of years left. Trading him makes less than zero sense. Mark my words — it’s not happening.
@Tim: As a Braves fan who just saw Freddie leave, don’t trust too much that the Nats will keep him long term. You’ll get your heart ripped out.
I understand. Nats fans saw it with Harper. This i s Mr. Nat, now that Zimm is retired. The have to have him for the sale. He’ll be here.
Noveli Marte, Jared Kelenic and a Pitcher…Go get it done Dipoto and get rid of Kelenic
Lewis Soto Jrod best outfield on paper
That won’t get it done. Need about 4-5 more pieces.
I might employ a “$440 million in the hand is better than $480 million in the bush” strategy, but more power to him.
Asking for 440 mil means he wants to play for a winning team. He is not getting that. Trade your best prospects and you get him for 2 years.
The Jays are owned Rogers Telecom. I own a few hundred shares and trust me no way do we want to give away the farm for someone for 2 years. Every other team has the same problem. All teams should be managed the way the Rays are.
Soto will be a Dodger or Yankee. Doubt Nats trade him to the Mets.
If the Dodgers do trade for him, he will only be in LA until he becomes a FA in 2 1/2 years. This Dodger FO has yet to overpay for a Scott Boras client. in free agency.
I don’t know who is more crazy. Soto for rejecting it or nats for offering it.
They were both un~crazy. His market value is higher than that.
Right now maybe. 2 years from now we will see.
Sadly it’s time for him to go. It was nice knowing you Soto , don’t let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.
No way anyone offers enough to trade for him this year.The Nats don’t have too.
Giants fans are going to lose their minds if Juan Soto goes to the Dodgers or Padres. Both teams are already loaded with young superstar players.
Giants fans, knowing full well they are a big market team with a ton of $ available, have been patiently waiting for their own superstar young player to build around. My gut tells me he’ll be a Dodger though.
None of the NL West teams have the farm system to trade for him.
lol Keith Law has Dodgers ranked as #1 farm system.
Jobe Skubal Tork Baddoo and Kriedler.
Miggys contract goes away after next year…Avila needs to bust a move to keep his job.
Not even close. Riley Greene would have to headline
Looking at the advanced metrics, Soto looks to be pretty bad in the outfield. He probably will need to move to 1B pretty soon. And if he can’t adjust, moving to DH full time in the next few years wouldn’t be out of the question.
As great of a hitter that Soto is, I don’t think I would want my team to pay someone that much who is basically a liability in the field.
Soto should probably move to LF. That would be the next logical step.
He played LF his 1st 2 1/2 years and his defensive metrics actually look worse when he is in LF as apposed to RF.
Good grief. He’s fine in the OF.
He’s actually bad in the OF
This guy gets the highest offer in MLB and still rejects it. I applaud the Nats for trading him. That is a great move considering the circumstance.
Dodgers or Yankees is my guess
Almost seems unfair to the rest of baseball that both Juan Soto and Carlos Correa will both eventually be Chicago Cubs.
Why Backload the contract? If you even it out or Frontload it, then the team is less stuck with the contract.
Value of future dollars is lower. Not saying that’s how I’d structure the deal, but that’s why teams often backload.
Judge stays a Yankee. Ohtani will be a Met. Soto will be…,hmmm, I’ll say the Red Sox.
No way Sox sign him for more than that. Bloom doesn’t overpay
Not sure on Ohtani. He purposelessly signed with a West Coast team to make travel to Japan easier to go home. I could see Mariners or Dodgers maybe.
If the Red Sox don’t sign Devers then I don’t see them spending the money on Soto. There is something odd going on with Bloom and ownership.
Nothing odd, just doesn’t overpay
Nats should offer 12/$450 with opt-outs after years three and four. If their rebuild isn’t going well, he opts out.
No player is worth that. Period. Boras has really ruined the game with his greed.
It will most likely take 15 years and $525 million minimum to get a deal done. Could even take $600 million.
I think that’s a bit long and a bit high. Even Trout only makes 12/426.5. You would be exceeding that by 3 years and almost $100 million.
Soto is much younger than Trout and much more reliably healthy. I’d say he’s worth quite a bit more.
The additional information just added to the article makes it clearer why Soto turned it down. I hope they can move towards an agreement, mostly for the Nats’ sake. He will get paid anywhere he goes.
I would trade him. He’s starting to be overrated. He’s not a good defender or great running the bases.
427 career OBP? Overrated? Dude is a modern Ted Williams at 23.
He very well might go down as the best history in baseball history when all of this is said and done. You don’t give up on so much sustained star power at the age of 23 unless you know for a fact you are going to lose him. It’s not like the NL doesn’t have the DH anymore.
He’s nowhere near Bonds as the greatest hitter of all time!
Very ridiculous contract very ridiculous money it’s killing the game how much is enough? Players greedy greedy greedy don’t tell me about the owners being greedy the owners put up the money for the teams anything stupid enough to trade for this guy on the off chance that he’s worth the money in production will be lucky
Glad the players continue to fight the good fight against capitalism and greed! MLB and players drew a line and told us to pick sides and most of us chose those average Joe players (including myself). This is what the fight was for!
Sarcasm aside, this doesn’t make the owners look better but the players more like the owners with greed being the end all be all. This won’t change my dislike for the owners. It just take me off the common man’s side with no voice, those valiant money hungry players. Only defensible argument for Soto is a strong desire to leave Washington, but 440 million is just insane to pass up.
Not a Guardians fan, but a JRam fan which has amplified with his extension. I’ll will root for him til the day he retires. Happy in his environment, financially set, adored by fans and playing the game he loves. I will fully admit I am wrong if Soto wants to win now or try a new city and that’s why he’s turned down this money. Even then it’ll still feel like the ending of Animal Farm with these players.
How exactly are they, “fighting capitalism”? Too many people use words they don’t understand.
I was using those buzzwords ppl like to do when talking about wealth/private ownership. MLB is a business trying to maximize profits, doing so via the labor group (that’s unionized tho) believed to be exploited/unfairly compensated by the ownership that relies upon them for said profits. I was being sarcastic and wasn’t saying it’s the definition of capitalism, but I wouldn’t say I’m clueless.
Rogers Communications just a black out, which affected most of CANADA..
What better for them to sign Soto as a sign of good faith the country of CANADA for their blunder last week…
They sign SOTO and VLADDY both for over 500 million each 10 years…
ROGERS will have all of CANADA switch to their communications service, 100%…
lol
THEY COULD AFFORD TO DO IT AND PAY LUXURY TAX…
Personally I think this results in CJ Abrams+ Going to DC
If he did go to SD, the trio of Machado, Soto, and Tatis would be quite formidable.
There won’t be enough television money to go around one of these days. Why no one has learned from Chris Davis I don’t understand.
The question is who has the farm system and is willing to leave it barren to get a deal done?
…all for the privilege of paying Soto $40M a year.
Lord – No team is gonna gut their farm system for a player if the team isn’t willing to dish out a half billion contract.
This is Stanton all over again, everyone thought he would bring back a massive haul but the contract narrowed his market substantially and the Marlins ended up getting little in return.
Eventually we are going to get to a point where the usual spenders will have too many mega-contracts on the books and won’t be able to take on any more.
The Angels are already tied down with Rendon, Trout and maybe one more upcoming with Ohtani.
Padres are already tied down with Tatis and Machado, I seriously doubt they will invest in over $1.1 Billion on just three players.
I just don’t see others, except perhaps the Mets and Dodgers, taking on a second mega contract. Yanks will keep Judge, so they are likely out on Soto.
FeverPitch, agreed. The only way the Yankees enter the conversation is if they lose Judge. They’ll have excess money and a desire to add a star. Ohtani or Soto become more likely at that point. That’s why my guess is Judge returns to the Yankees, and Ohtani ends up with the Mets with the Eppler connection paying off again. I half jokingly said the Red Sox could get Soto, although it doesn’t fit Bloom’s approach. Ownership could change that. Why not put the modern Ted Williams back in Fenway?! BTW I strongly dislike the Soto/Williams comparison, although I understand it. Soto’s has had one Williams-like year and that was the 60-game season. I recognize the similar skillset, but give the kid (no, not The Kid) Soto a break. He’s excellent, but I believe Williams is the greatest hitter ever, and that’s coming from a Yankee fan!
The Nats ownership plans to sell the team. Not quite sure why then they’re concerned about backloading the deal if a more even distribution would get Soto to sign now. Sure, backloading the deal means the next owners will pay most of the money, but if an even distribution encourages him to sign, that might help with the sale of the team.
Loria backloaded Stanton’s massive contract, paid him the low-end salaries, and then sold the team to Jeter’s group, and the Yankees traded for Stanton and picked up the tab for the high-end salaries.
Yes, although the Marlins also added $30M to bring Stanton’s AAV down to $22MM, which is really the currency the Yankees and other high-revenue teams are most focused on.
It will be more difficult now to trade these contracts without even more money changing hands. The recent CBA changed the calculations so the AAV for luxury tax purposes will be based on the *remaining* contract value at the point of the trade as opposed to the total contract AAV when signed. Stanton’s contract is grandfathered in, so no change for the Yankees, but it would have greatly complicated the trade if it happened today. That’s the world in which Soto’s contract will exist. Backloading the deal will make it much more difficult to trade him to a high-revenue club.
The way I figure it, the $10M paid by Miami in each of the last three years of the Stanton contract brings the AAV in the final years after 2022 to $23.3M if the third payment of $10M is used to pay the buyout in 2028:
2023: $32M
2024: $32M
2025: $32M
2026: $29M – $10M = $19M
2027: $25M – $10M= $15M
2028: $10M buyout
$32M+$32M+$32M+$19M+$15M+$10M = $140M ÷ 6 = $23.3M
If my calculations are correct, that’s what the Yankees are on the hook for from 2023 on.
Meanwhile, the AAV Loria paid in the three years Miami held the contract amounted to only $10,016,666.00
Just get him out of the NL East
Nationals get
Manoah
Tiedemann
Zululeta
Blue Jays get
Corbin
Soto
HAHA not likely!
Manoah aint going anywhere…
If the Nationals did accept this, it seems like a lateral move for the Jays. They swap arguably a top 5 pitcher in the American League for more offense. They would need to win every game 7-6
@BRUINBLUW
Considering their offense beat the AAA Royals 8-1 last night but lost 3-1 the previous night, they need offense.
That’s one game.
I don’t profess to know everything about the Jays, but looking at the data, they are 2nd in the American league in runs per game, but in the bottom half of the league in runs given up.
Don’t get me wrong, Soto would be a nice addition to that lineup, but I don’t think giving up a young Cy Young caliber pitcher with 5 more years of control is going to help the overall team outlook very much.
This is surely gonna go over 1k…Gonna enjoy a few beers when I get home and read and read…
I’m sure it will all work out in the end and Boras will get a slightly larger commission check when all is said and done, but there isn’t any way I could leave $440 million of guaranteed money on the table knowing that it only takes one injury to end my earning power forever.
You have to take these situations 1 by 1: there’s not a set rule
Typically you try your best to keep the star, but Wash is going to be in a deep rebuild where the next 5 prime years really don’t have much value for them. For that reason I’m taking the Haul today, if it was a ready made team on the up like Sea Minny Sd SF Mil Atl etc etc id be full in on a 500 mill salary today
**Those including Corbin and Stras in the package- Hard No, they need to get max value here, those salaries will rot with Washington as the rebuild works itself out/Not really a big deal honestly, they will still run sub 100 mill payrolls with those 2 guys
*** If I was giving 500 I would just wait till free agency. The prospect haul + the money would just put too much risk everywhere for me. I wonder if that thinking keeps the market down a tad on return value
“Average MLB team now valued at record $2.07 billion after new collective bargaining agreement”
cbssports.com/mlb/news/average-mlb-team-now-valued…
If fans didn’t pay exorbitant prices, both at the stadium and in cable fees, to watch millionaires and mega-millionaires knock a little ball around a stadium with wooden clubs, the owners wouldn’t be raking in the mountain of money of which the players and their agents want their chunk.
The legalization of sports betting by the Supreme Court in 2018 added another hugely profitable revenue stream to the owners’ business model. People betting on sports watch the games, raising TV revenue. And, laughably, these hypocrites keep Rose out of the Hall while getting in bed with gambling outfits like DraftKings and MGM Casinos.
No doubt you’ve noticed the growing number of broadcast streaming deals between MLB and entities like Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, ESPN+, Fox Sports Go, Amazon Prime and Peacock. MLB is increasing its revenue streams as much as possible, and the inflow of cash is enormous.
If you’re really offended by these obscene salaries — and they are obscene — your only option is to stop paying for what, at the end of the day, is nothing but an entertainment.
As long as fans keep making baseball a fabulously profitable enterprise, these obscene salaries will keep escalating. Owners wouldn’t pay these salaries unless they expected the investment to be profitable to them. So far, the investments are paying off hugely.
Spot on with Pete Rose
Younger generation is obsessed with gambling as well even tho they know little about the game. Increase pace, add a dh don’t appeal to their eyes as much as draft kings does.
And your right, most people watch their vigs play out so they are getting the viewership numbers as well.
Baseballs too funny, sucking off the teat of gambling and steroids then having the audacity to throw Rose and Bonds under the bus thereafter…… Cruel : TWO of the BEST to EVER play the game
Good post
100% correct!
If baseball is truly economically healthy — and I doubt it will be for many more years — then huge team payrolls spread across the whole team probably make sense. But massive salaries for one, two or three players on a single team are usually a failure after only a few years or so — because it makes balancing out the rest of the lineup and pitching staff much harder.
Tom Brady plays every down on offense. Stephen Curry is on the floor most of a game. But Mike Trout is only one ninth of a lineup, and Gerrit Cole only pitches every 4-5 games. Baseball is far more about roster balance than it is about star driven productivity.
The Braves won the WS with only one contract over $20 million last year. The Yankees with all their giant spending haven’t even been to the WS since 2009. One or two or three (or more) gigantic contracts — making financial flexibility across the rest of the team very difficult for even the wealthy teams — could just as easily break the team rather than make it. The Angels have two contracts over $30 million a year and they still suck. Wasted millions on Jason Heyward prevented the Cubs from holding something of a core of the good players from the WS team together. I could keep going but it’s too late to keep writing…
To the pads for abrams
Soto to the Yankees. A star of this caliber playing for any other team would be like buying a suit without the pants. They simply go together.
Toronto.
He will meet NEW YORK in playoffs…
I don’t know if that’s so, Yankeesforever, but I had to grin at the analogy.
Here is what I think is the type of package it would take for the Nats to part with Soto at the deadline…could be way off but just starting my brainstorming lol
Mets: Alvarez, Baty, Ramirez, Zeigler, Fanas
Dodgers: May, Lux, Cartaya, Vargas, Doncon
Padres: Gore, Abrams, Hassell, Campusano, Zavala
Yankees: Volpe, Peraza, Pereria, Wesneski, Arias
Red Sox: Mayer, Bello, Casas, Yorke, Bleis
Blue Jays: Moreno, Tiedemann, Groshans, Martinez, Meza
Are you factoring in that these teams already know that they won’t be able to keep him for more than 2 1/2 years without ponying up more than $440M?
Unless a team is prepared to give him around half a billion dollars, they’d be fools to part with the kind of prospect hauls you’re suggesting.
As for the Yankees’ suggested trade chips, why would the Nats want three shortstops?
because you can flip them. Top prospects are always a trade value.
Exactly. Plus lots of SS prospects end up having to shift to the OF or an IF utility role. Every year at least a dozen SS from the top 100 lists are busts…need lots of bites at the SS apple
Nationals would want Severino included possibly they need some pitching.
I don’t think the Nats will have any interest in a guy with one or two years of control left that can’t stay healthy. They already have Stras who can’t stay healthy.
That’s why I only included teams I think have the interest in locking up Soto long term. A team like the Padres may not be able to with Machado and Tatis, but they might take a shot at 2 playoff runs with Soto and then trade him going into his last year or last trade deadline to recoup some of the prospect cost to acquire him.
Most teams would be fools to trade for him. The cost is too high vs no guarantee of him staying and if he does stay, it would take a lot of money.
I agree…if this were Vlad and the Nats were a potential spot I don’t know if I’d want them to trade 4 top 100 prospects for him (not that we will ever have 4 top 100 guys lol)
The same group of top teams with huge payrolls and top farm systems will be bidding on
Soto: Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, Giants, maybe the Padres make a bid.
Cubs and Cards are too cheap.
Ditto Marlins
Astros, maybe, but most of their better players have been promoted to the majors already.
Dodgers have to be the favorite.
Cashman is too much in love with his own prospects
and has not made a huge deal in a while.
Right. I don’t see the Astros happening unless they include Peña and some recently graduates pitching
I think the padres will be major players for Soto. May not extend him but having him for 2.5 years is still worth a lot.
Something like Gore, abrams, Hassell. Plus some lower level guys maybe even some others on their current roster like Grisham or morejon.
That would be a haul and tough for anyone else to beat or at least willing to beat.
I’d include Campusano in there instead of Hassell..Can’t see any way AJ gives him up..
Nats wouldn’t want Grisham. Only has one more year of control than Soto.
I can see Seattle as being a good trade fit, they have the prospects and the payroll flexibility to make this happen not to mention the GM who loves trades. It would start with Noelvi Marte and Emerson Hancock, possibly Kelenic. Plus a few others and then of course the extension. Imagine an outfield with Julio and Soto
Marlins should step up and give themselves a two year window. Edward Cabrera, Jesus Sanchez, Jose Salas and Dax Fulton for Soto.
Well, there just aren’t that many teams willing or able to commit that amount of payroll.
Mets, Yankees, Dodgers…
All 3 will probably make offers, but highly doubt the Nationals will see offered what they expect.
Mets are somewhat locked in to 2 spots with Marte and Canha for 2 more years, but Nimmo does become a free agent. Honestly, I believe the Mets would rather have. Nimmo 5 year contract than a Soto 12 year.
Judge is a free agent, but again, who can afford him but the same 3 teams?
Dodgers make the most sense.
A huge deal with the Mets could happen imo. A bit like the Dodgers/Red Sox Adrian Gonzalez swap. They’ve got 4 top 100 guys and Cohen might be willing to take any amount of big money back.
Those 4 top 100 + a couple more prospects plus a paid for Smith and Davis to Nationals
Soto + Harris + Bell + Corbin + Cruz? (doubt Strasbourg is ever traded)
Think the mets would have to blow away any other teams offer for them to trade him in the division. Also don’t see the mets trading their top 4 prospects for anyone. They can wait until next year and just buy judge if they wanted to. Mets seem to want to buy players and rebuild the farm. They have talked about becoming an organization like the dodgers.
If the Mets do their 4 top 100 guys I don’t think they’d have to take back Corbin.
Strasbourg’s career may be over shortly
Davis and Smith? I like those guys but Washington is gonna be like, um, why are you dumping guys you don’t want on us? Not the point of this trade! (Met fans: you can’t just include those two in EVERY trade because you don’t want them, they’re not Frazier and Andujar, eh?)
The Red Sox and Dodgers trade was a salary dump. They forced the Dodgers to take Carl Crawford’s monstrosity along with Beckett to get Adrian Gonzalez. Are you insinuating the team takes Strasbergs contract along with Soto in a trade?
What scares me about Juan Soto is the fact that he appears to be about 30 years old already. I’m not sure I’d be willing to give up a ton of top tier prospects then give him a mega deal without some kind of proof that he’s actually the age he claims to be.
Considering where he’s from, that’s not an unreasonable concern.
A 2012 article in the Naples News cited several instances of foreign players faking their identities and/or ages: Juan Carlos Oviedo, AKA Leo Nunez; Roberto Hernandez Heredia, AKA Fausto Carmona; Jairo Beras; Juan Carlos Paniagua; Miguel Tejada; and Adrian Beltre. All of them, like Soto, were from the DR, which also happens to be the baseball juicing capital of the world. It seems the Dominicans have a habit of rationalizing a cheating culture. In Beltre’s case, though, he pretended to be older than he was.
archive.naplesnews.com/sports/mlb/mlb-fake-identit…
Guaranteed “seat at the table”
I have no idea why would be willing to trade for him because 1. it’d take a lot of prospects and 2. there’s no guarantee he’d be willingly to stay with who ever trades for him long term. Not only that, but if he was willingly with who ever trades for him long term, it would probably take a lot of money to keep him.
I think there will be some contigency baked in so that the acquiring team will have a chance to offer him an extension.with also reasonable chance that he may accept. It’s way too much to risk to empty the farm and risk losing him in two plus years. If Soto gets traded, it will come before deadline day.
Exactly, so you might be right about some conigency baked in.
I’m leaning towards an off-season trade as there really isn’t enough time to work out a deal of this magnitude.
Rejecting 440MM of guaranteed money plus deferred money that will continue to pay you so long into your retirement days. If that’s not the definition of greed I don’t know what is.
If greed at all, that would be an example of greed, not the definition of it.
There’s no evidence that Soto is greedy. He just thinks that his talents are worth more than he’s being offered. Rejecting that offer isn’t greedy, it’s smart.
Gallo and any prospects they want expect for volp. With and extension as well.
Your message is a sad example of grammar and spelling
Just seems Soto doesn’t want to stay there period. No problem with his leverage and risk tolerance. Smart to force Nats to deal him now b/c interested big market team will pay him the monster guarantee extension quick for PR to get hand claps from the masses that ignore 1 position player has very limited impact on team success if you can’t fill rest of roster (b/c every player naturally wants theirs….especially pitchers that are way more important)).
Angels on line 1! Trade Adell, Marsh, Detmers, Walsh, Bachman, Iglesias and whoever else and go for broke!
Ohtani, Trout and Soto. Wow… Break the bank and jack up that payroll to Met/Dodgers territory! It’s not my money… do it Arte!
Yeah that approach has worked great thus far.
With the nationals version of Anthony run down, their office will probably be humming along right now. Sadly, they got the broke down version.
You seem to want a perpetually mediocre team there, Matt
Imagine turning down half a billion dollars as a 23 year old. Wow.
Easy trade rangers. Give them e.Duran, Glenn Otto, cole Winn and Leody taveras, maybe even bubba Thompson. As long as we keep jung, j.smith and leiter We’re good
Hmm, trying to determine a Blue Jay trade for Soto that would not make them worse in the long term and enhance the teams win now abilities. I think that any trade would have to have both prospects and a few off the Jays Major league roster in order to have a chance. Here is my best try and it will only possibly get the Nationals to at least discuss a deal: Bichette would headliner and take the mantle as the Nationals top player. Ricky Tiedeman is the Jays top pitching prospect and looks fantastic in the minors and would be the next player. Gabriel Moreno is the Jays top overall prospect, and he would have to be included even though the Nationals have very good catchers in their system. Otto Lopez and Jordan Groshans are top 5 in the Jays system and would need to be included as well. Orelvis Martinez would be the tough one as he is a star in the making and even though he is a year or two from playing the ML, the Jays could call him up early to take Bichettes place. But it might take including him in order to get Soto. So, Bichette, Moreno, Maritinez, Tiedeman, Groshans and Lopez. That is a crazy return for Soto, and yet i am not sure it would be enough. Jays would need move Espinal to SS and Biggio becomes full time 2b at that point. Of course, the Nats could want Espinal who is very good, all-star replacement this year, and that would leave a huge gaping hole a SS and 2B for the Jays. So, a young perennial all-star candidate player at SS, 4 top 100 MLB prospects and either Lopez or Espinal or both. Does this get the conversation started?
Nats fan here, yea I think that’s probably pretty close. Jays need to go for it, now is there time. Springer/Soto/Vlad/Hernandez is just a ridiculous top of order.
I really don’t understand the Soto criticism for turning down the money. The bottom line is that he will likely make more than $440 over the next 15 years, and chose where he does it. Why should he take less?
Players and agents don’t care if fans think the player is “worth it”, they only need 1 of the 30 owners to think it. Soto will have many suitors willing to exceed that AAV and/or total dollars
It’s vulgar.
It’s vulgar to.have even been offered.that.much.
There is a serious sickness in our culture that everyone is ok with it.
@Saber: Do you think everyone in this country should make the same amount, regardless of their abilities or the scarcity of their skill set?
@Saber My former neighbors said the same when I sold my house. They said “it’s not worth what you’re asking’. Guess what, I sold it for even more, a “vulgar” amount. Everything is worth whatever the buyer is willing to pay. Soto is among the best in the world at something that generates revenue, he’s just getting his cut. By the way, it’s the owners who are determining his value.
I recall well when some of the first players were paid one million per year, many said it was unsustainable. It seemed outrageous and a little preposterous at the time. I’m not sure there’s a ceiling. As long as the mega TV money is there, who knows how huge salaries will get.
Boston.
Package prospects for Soto and include Bogarts.
The Nats are non=contenders and don’t need Bogaerts. They’re better off getting a better prospect package. If they really want him, they can sign him as a free agent.
Include any prospect not named Mayer
The Sox could offer Casas as a starting point but any deal would probably deplete a farm system that has only recently been re-stocked
Nats if they are smart. Go and deplete like AZ farm. Ask for Seth Beer, OF Carroll, and this years #1 overall.
I still think that’s not enough for Soto. That’s why I mention Boston. Include MLB players in the deal with prospects. Duran? Shoot Jeter Downs.
Numb skull
Self-awareness is good
them.us/story/gay-men-masculinity-mental-health
Nats truly hold the bag for two years. And have a leverage for what they want.
What if after the draft this week they leverage the top prospects and say move him to AZ for Druw Jones or Elijah Green or Cam Collier. Just would be wild start to trade deadline. After draft…
You know how much he hates Washington? He’d pay $440M to leave Washington.
Not sure how that reasoning works. He’s not paying anything. He just wants more than they’re willing to pay to keep him.
Soto must hate it in Washington. To walk away from $440 million… a bird in the hand…
His agent is Scott Boras. Scott has a history of overselling his clients:
baseballprospectus.com/news/article/13584/baseball…
Can’t see how the Yankees can afford Soto if they retain Judge and expect to match the Nats’ offer he rejected. Even if Judge leaves, trading for and signing Soto will tie up over $100 million a year in 3 players for several years. And then they’ll wonder why they can’t afford another big name free agent starter or two three years from now.
If baseball is truly economically healthy — and I doubt it will be for many more years — then huge team payrolls spread across the whole team probably make sense. But massive salaries for one, two or three players on a single team are usually a failure after only a few years or so — because it makes balancing out the rest of the lineup and pitching staff much harder.
Tom Brady plays every down on offense. Stephen Curry is on the floor most of a game. But Mike Trout is only one ninth of a lineup, and Gerrit Cole only pitches every 4-5 games. Baseball is far more about roster balance than it is about star driven productivity.
The Braves won the WS with only one contract over $20 million last year. The Yankees with all their giant spending haven’t even been to the WS since 2009. One or two or three (or more) gigantic contracts — making financial flexibility across the rest of the team very difficult for even the wealthy teams — could just as easily break the team rather than make it. The Angels have two contracts over $30 million a year and they still suck. Wasted millions on Jason Heyward prevented the Cubs from holding something of a core of the good players from the WS team together. I could keep going but it’s too late to keep writing…
He’ll be a ranger don’t you boys worry
I wish somebody have offered me 2.4 million a month for the next 15 years while doing what I love to do when I was only 23
What if you thought you were worth 5 and the markets says you are worth more than 2.3
Worth more than 2.3 over 15?
And what if I told you there’s a chance you suffer a debilitating iinjury tomorrow that you never fully recover from, and all of that money disappears forever? And 2.3 vs. 5 isn’t a good comparison because Soto isn’t worth $900 million. It’s more like 2.3 vs. 2.6, so do you risk the injury or take the money now, knowing that holding out gets you nothing but more money that you will never be able to spend? This isn’t about Soto being paid less than what he’s worth, this is about him specifically wanting the most lucrative contract in baseball history for no other reason than to say he has it.
The White Sox for Eloy Jimenez, Gavin Sheets and three lower level prospects.
We live in a world where 30 mill per year is not good enough lol here I am at 70k paying for a house, car, MLBTR subscription and food thinking I have plenty to go around.
Are you one of the best in the world at what you do?
And is “what you do” playing a game? That’s a very productive skill that benefits society greatly. GIVE HIM A TRILLION DOLLARS TO HIT A BALL
Sounds crazy doesn’t iti make 68k a year and wife is 80k a year and we have 4 kids and we do just fine crazy how 30 million isn’t enough for 10 years yet alone one year lol baseball has gone crazy but they do deserve money for what they bring in
If he’s smart, he will not sign a long-term contract until he hits free agency.
The Astros could be an interesting fit. They have prospects to deal and refrained from giving big money to Springer and Correa so they have money to spend
With the latest deal it sounds like ownership is planning to sell and they want most of the liability on a Soto contract to fall on the new owners.
Cleveland should get in on Soto. They have a plethora of interesting pitching and infield prospects. They should be primed to make a serious playoff run in 2023 and 2024. Soto would give them a huge boost.
Who wants to play in Washington anyway? Good job Juan
Again, who is your team? Did your team do as well in the 2010s as the Nats? Wheen was the last time your team won the Championship?
@Jaa1968- Amen!
All the comments on here are about resigning him. If he’s traded before the deadline it’s going to be to a team looking to win now and not concerned with resigning him. Obviously they would try, but that’s not the point of the trade. I see the Cardinals being that team, trying to win a WS while they have Goldschmidt and Arenado.
O’Neil, Liberatore, McGreevey, and Herrera would probably get it done. Pretend GMs always overvalue what it takes to make a trade, but when you look at recent trades, it never takes what they all say it would. But if you need to sweeten the pot, throw in Jack Flaherty as well.
Soto may end up signing elsewhere, but if the Cardinals win a WS with him, that’s all that matters.
my opinion……if he is traded to a team that has no intention of resigning him, the “haul” the Nationals get will certainly be diminished, as 4-1 would be an overpay for 2 months of his services regardless of whether that puts the acquiring team over the top.
He’s not a free agent until after the 2024 season…
I don’t understand why the Angels don’t do the same with Ohtani. He has only a year left of control and I highly doubt they will extend him. I was reading a report from Joel Sherman who believes the same and he pointed out the Angels are unlikely to outbid other teams for Ohtani because of the long contracts they have on payroll and they won’t be able to extend him. I see similarities between the situations of Ohtani/Angels and Soto/Nationals. Minasian needs to be on the phone listening to trade offers. There will surely be good offers for him on the market.
Again my opinion…..the Angels are probably hoping that Ohtani indicates he would accept a less then best offer to stay in Anaheim so the Angels approach is why rush the decision as he’s under team control for this and the 2023 season….they may be willing to deal with the “talk” that will inevitably surround this situation, if not resolved before, the 2023 season.
If you’re the Nats and you’re selling your team, Soto is a win/lose proposition. He’s attractive to a new owner as a potential cornerstone player and ticket window draw, but…
Who wants to pay a couple billion for a franchise and THEN add another half billion to sign a guy like Soto (.and that’s assuming Soto WANTS to play in Washington AND you can convince Boras to get him to sign an extension prior to free agency)? Otherwise, the new owner is known as the guy who let Soto walk away or traded him at the last minute for pennies on the dollar..
But if he’s traded before the sale, then the team HAS to acquire as many MLB ready prospects in the deal as possible to position the team as “on the verge of winning” vs. “I’m selling you a team in Year One of a Five Year Plan.”
I think that’s how we as fans need to view this deal. Any trade would seem to require at LEAST three young talents either already in the big leagues or on the fringe AND include either Corbin or Strasburg’s contract to help make the team more attractive to the potential buyers..
Something like Soto, Patrick Corbin and Carlos Hernandez to the Cardinals for Dylan Carlson, Nolan Gorman, Jack Flaherty, Matthew Liberatore and #8 prospect OF Alex Burleson (currently in AAA). That’s five MLB or MLB ready guys that immediately help the Nats MLB roster while unloading the Corbin contract in the bargain. It’s a steep price to pay and the Cardinals may not be willing to give up quite that much for a guy they probably won’t be able to sign but I think it’s a framework that checks all the boxes.
Other contenders would need to assemble a similar MLB-ready package AND be willing to swallow Corbin’s contract. Toronto fits the bill, as do the Dodgers, Mets, Mariners and Rangers. The Marlins have the MLB ready prospects (Meyer, Cabrera, etc) and are in position to contend, though the money absorbed may be prohibitive. Padres are in the same boat. Giants have the money but I think their talent isn’t developed enough.
This should prove interesting.
The haul all depends on whether the acquiring team intends to try and sign him long term…..if an acquiring team is just pursuing him to get them over the top, the package will be reduced….of course that assumes that reduced package tops other team offers latent wise!
No way Cards do that with their core. Plus money to sign. I do see point of two years control but this should be to make him stay not Peace out two years later tho I think he does this anyway.
Nats would be wise to get a haul but from an AL team. I can see a way Boston could swing this since they’ve have mookie in the reverse happen to them.
Another sneaky team to watch is the Astros. They have Brantley& Tucker but we’re willing to pony up for Correa?
Swap Tyler O’Neal for Carlson and Ivan Herrera for For Gorman and get Mo and Russo on the phone. I’d rather keep O’Neal over Carlson, but O’Neal would be more desirable to the Nats as well.
Herrera is considered the catcher of the future, and with Ruiz already in Washington, he doesn’t make sense for either team. Gorman’s natural position is 3B, a position of need for the Nats. I wouldn’t object to including O’Neill vs. Carlson.
That’s obscene!
disgusting
I see the Padres and Yankees as being most interested AND willing to cobble together the prospects and/or cash required to make Rizzo happy.
I think the Yankees are in exactly the same position as the Dodgers were last year. They are about to lose a premium talent (Judge) in free agency and bringing Soto in now for the playoffs and two more years would be a great way to say goodbye to Judge by upgrading the position and reduce payroll. Cashman might even be willing to take on Corbin’s salary and reduce the prospect load that it would take to get Soto.
I think the Padres are a great fit because of the unique sensibilities and predicaments of Preller. He is desperate. He literally has to win in the next couple of years to justify all of the ridiculous moves he’s made and this would just double down on what he’s been doing. He has a pitching staff right now that should be good in October but most of those guys (Davish, Manea, Clevenger, Snell) aren’t gonna be around in a year for a variety of reasons. Rizzo is a smart guy and I think if he would be willing to take on Hosmer’s contract, he could literally extract every good prospect that remains in their system, including Gore and Abrams. Preller would add in Campusano, Hansell and maybe even one or two more prospects to get this deal done.
Yankees aren’t losing Judge in free agency
Powerball numbers please.
Here’s a couple packages. Does this even pickup the phone???
Soto to Astros for Pena, Leon, Brown and Whitley
Soto to BoSox for Duran, jeter Downs, Dalbec and Casas
Soto to Dodgers for Dustin May, Bobby Miller, Michael Busch, Rios
Soto to Yankees for Dominguez, Pereza, Lacosto
Sox aren’t trading both Dalbec and Casas
For a bat that has a category with only him and Ted Williams. Plus it could retain Devers and MAYBE Bogey???
Want to see Soto in pinstripes then? Bye Casas ans Dalbec
Yeah because it makes total sense for you to overpay in order to keep your rival from overpaying. If I am the Red Sox and I got an outrageous offer like that, not only would I not be scared of him going to the Yankees, I would give the Nats the Yankees phone number and then hum some smooth jazz while waiting for the phone to connect. It would be much better for Boston to have the Yankees overpay for someone like Soto. It would lessen the Yankees farm AND put another ridiculous contract in their outfield. The Yankees would probably have the first billion dollar OF with Stanton, Judge, and Soto. Even for them, that is ridiculous.
And BTW, Ted Williams? C’mon. I know batting average is only supposed to be talked about by cavemen riding dinosaurs, but Soto is hitting .250 right now. And that is after a hot streak. Soto is dependent on bad pitching to give him first base. He is nowhere near the same realm as Ted Williams. who had BOTH a lot of hits and a lot of walks and without a couple of wars would definitely be over 3000 hits and probably would be closer to 4000 than 3000. Soto is a good young player, but he is no Ted Williams. At least not yet.
That is a hard “lol” comparing Soto to Ted Williams
The closest one IMO is the Yankees hypothetical but I think the response would be “What else?” I don’t think the others are close, especially the Red Sox one.
They should ask for less for Soto in return for taking overpaid/underperforming/dead money players like Patrick Corbin and Strasberg.
They can then rebuild and spend wisely.
The Nats have money. They don’t have a good farm. They shouldn’t dilute the Soto return just to save money.
They need to do the exact the opposite.
Can’t blame him. Who would ever want to live in that hell hole? Politicians, bureaucrats, and lobbyists crawling around everywhere… “You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.”
Oh, now I see what everyone is saying about DC, as if he has anything to do with politics. That is just silly.
Soto is smart. Nobody in their right mind would want to live and play in the DC cesspool long term.
For 440 million, I think I would take a drink of the cesspool every day for 15 years.
DC cesspool? What does that mean? Does a championship lose its luster that quickly? I see you are a Giants fan but don’t forget the many years you went without any success whatsoever.
I think he’s making a political reference.
Probably more cultural/demographic. The D.C.-Baltimore area is a pig sty.
I’m not rising to the bait of your pure ignorance.
A day later and I still can’t believe he turned down almost a half billion dollars and it’s guaranteed. Better not get hurt between now post arb.
Soto’s already set for life. At age 23. It’s all funny money at this point.
Serious question, because of Soto potentially being traded, as I really hope the Giants could somehow acquire him, do the Angels also now consider trading Trout and or Ohtani?
I just wonder when/if all this madness ends. 440 million? I make less than 70K a year, survive rather nicely, own a home and have a pension coming to me in 6 years.
If you could make more in a more desirable location, and for a better company, wouldn’t you do it? It’s not any different for Soto, and it will never end.
How many people are paying to watch you work?
How many people are running out to buy a Mittpappas jersey?
Has a shoe company or fast food chain asked you to do commercials because of how great a job you do at your company?
Are you nationally televised because of your work?
If you are you should definitely be compensated more because they making tons off of you.
Can’t imagine anyone turning down $440M, unless he just doesn’t want to play in Washington. Not much more you can do with $450 or $500M that can’t otherwise do with $440M… I wonder if the Angels my have a similar decision with Ohtani, with their management & player development basically botching every opportunity they’ve had to improve the team. I agree with what Washington is doing. Give the player the absolute best offer you’re comfortable with,and if they say no, explore a trade.
The mariners have the prospects and the money to make a run…. And OF of Julio, Soto, Lewis/Kelenic would be sick
Mariners won’t get him if rangers get involved they now have a top 5 minor league system with 7 top 100 prospects.plus their background with signing boras clients.
MLB needs a cap on contract lengths 7 years or 8 or signed by the same team
never gonna happen
Dinner bell is ringing at your nursing home.
Better shuffle off to the dining room.
Your comment is discombobulated.
This is a baseball board, not politics.
Soto has made his decision to not stay in DC
Period. $440 M even w some deferred is a ton and Soto rejecting & Nats saying the terms out to press pissed him off. Superstar on a “ losing rebuilding team” with unknown owners is enough to leave ASAP! NATS are fielding a good AAA team now.
The market is thin for Soto because of his sky high price and his aggressive agent, Boras,
who won’t sign a deal with any team trading for Soto.
Boras wants his clients to hit the auction market and set new records for salaries and
AAV.
Nothing wrong with that in this capitalistic society.
However, there maybe only a handful of teams that have both the
major league depth, the farm system top prospects in bunches , the ability to overpay for purely rental player even if he is a superstar player, and the financial where with all
to try to resign Soto in the 450-500M+ guaranteed salary range while still fielding
a pennant contending team at all the other positions.
Dodgers, Mets, Giants, Yankees, Red Sox….
Sleeper teams could be the Padres, Braves and Rangers.
Soto isn’t a rental. He has 2 years of control after this one. And trading for him (or any other player) doesn’t have signing him in mind.
Yes he is!
He has what?! 2 1/2 years left on his contract at the trade deadline?!
Boras is his agent?!
Boras is determined to auction Soto off to the highest bidder for a record contract of over 500M?!
San Diego already has 2 huge contracts with Machado and Tatis Jr.
San Diego won’t be giving any p[ayer a 500M deal.
They would have 3 guys with over a billion dollars committed and have to fill out the rest of their team with prospects and major league minimum guys.
Padres Ownership can’t be that stupid!
(Oh wait, they still let Preller make trades lol!)…
1. Let’s dial back the histrionics.
2. A rental, by definition, is no more than one year away from free agency. Juan Soto is not at this time part of that consortium.
Does anyone feel the nationals didn’t get anything for Turner and Max last year, they could of gotten a huge haul for both of them especially with turner being under control this year. Dodgers always try to rip off everyone just like with betts
That’s exactly the point. All of the comment board trade experts always say it’s going to take the 10 best prospects from a club plus Jesus to get a trade done. The reality is further from the truth. Yes it takes players but you don’t have to “empty the farm” and usually can keep most of the top prospects, including the teams number 1.
Say the final reported offer of a non-deferred 15/$440m is correct, we’re talking presumably about at least that from the team Soto gets traded to, for a 6 rWAR DH you aren’t completely embarrassed to see in the OF.
If that’s for his age 24-38 seasons, we’re at $29m and change for a 6 win DH, You can probably expect something like a 60 WAR return over the life of the deal, or roughly $7.33 million per win. Getting Soto at such a young age explains the whopping 440 million dollar-plus price tag, and you’re also saddling yourself with a player likely to be in steady decline for the last decade, or the last two-thirds of the deal. If a team isn’t aiming to contend regularly over the first half of the contract, they shouldn’t go near this, never mind the massive price tag in young players a team incurs by dealing for Soto some time in the next 8 months.
Also, what’s the cost of locking in a DH, even a DH this good, leaving you unable to rest your other players by rotating them through the slot throughout the season? It’s not insignificant. It might be only a win over a season, but that’s a win (or whatever you figure the cost to be) you have to deduct from Soto.
What insanity the sports world has come down to. $440 million and that’s not enough. Shameless greed.
And of course leading the way is the master of greed himself Scott Boras. Scott Boras = CANCER.
Soto turned down the Nats offer because he do not want play for a rebuilding. team. The Nats would want in a trade that gets them a top starting pitcher prosect and a top HR prospect plus prospects.