The Giants witnessed the departures of several key players this offseason, but made some targeted free agent strikes and filled their rotation with pitchers on short-term deals. The team is banking on veteran depth and a few new diamonds in the rough to recreate last year’s miraculous run to the postseason.
Major League Signings
- RHP Alex Cobb: two years, $20MM (plus $10MM club option)
- 1B Brandon Belt: one year, $18.4MM (accepted QO)
- RHP Anthony DeSclafani: three years, $36MM
- LHP Alex Wood: two years, $25MM
- LHP Carlos Rodón: two years, $44MM
- RHP Jakob Junis: one year, $1.75MM
- OF Joc Pederson: one year, $6MM
- LHP Matthew Boyd: one year, $5.2MM
- Total spend: $156.35MM
Options Exercised
- LHP Jose Alvarez: one year, $1.5MM
- IF Wilmer Flores: one year, $3.5MM
- RHP Jay Jackson: one year $1.5MM
Trades and Claims
- Traded RHP Jay Jackson to the Braves for cash considerations or PTBNL
- Acquired UTIL Luke Williams from the Phillies for 3B Will Toffey
- Claimed LHP Joe Palumbo off waivers from Rangers
- Claimed 1B/OF Austin Dean off waivers from Cardinals
Extensions
- Signed 1B/OF Darin Ruf to a two-year, $6.25MM extension (deal also includes a $3.5MM option for 2024)
Notable Minor League Signings
- Alex Blandino, Matt Carasiti, Cody Carroll, Raynel Espinal, Luis González, Wei-Chieh Huang, Mauricio Llovera, Carlos Martinez, Luis Ortiz, Corey Oswalt, Taylor Williams
Notable Losses
- Caleb Baragar, Kris Bryant, Tyler Chatwood, Johnny Cueto, Alex Dickerson, Kevin Gausman, Jay Jackson, Scott Kazmir, Buster Posey, Jose Quintana, Donovan Solano, Tony Watson
After winning a franchise-record 107 games that even the most optimistic prognosticators didn’t see coming, the Giants entered this offseason with a straightforward goal: do it again. Any team would be hard-pressed to collect triple-digit win totals in back-to-back seasons, but San Francisco finds themselves in a uniquely odd spot to attempt the feat. In their last full season in 2019 the team won only 77 games and ended 29 games back of first place, and yet when they fielded almost the exact same veteran core two years later they tacked on 30 wins and eked out a division title over the Dodgers, who again won 106 games. Career years from the Giants’ veteran roster made all the difference in 2021, but until the 2022 season is in the books it’s impossible to say if this was a perfect storm or the new normal moving forward.
Complicating the team’s hope of this being the new normal is that one of their most counted upon veterans retired at the onset of the offseason. Long-time catcher Buster Posey hung up his spikes after a dozen seasons in the league, a decision that has more than just sentimental ramifications for the club. In his 2021 comeback campaign, Posey slugged at a rate not seen since his age-25 MVP season in 2012. The 34-year-old’s production served as a final feather in the cap of the future Hall-of-Famer’s career, but 113 games of a .304/.390/.499 (140 OPS+) slash line will be hard to replace from an organizational perspective. Joey Bart is the heir apparent to San Francisco’s catching throne and a former second overall pick but will have a tough act to follow, particularly considering he had just 35 games of big league experience heading into 2022.
While Posey’s departure caught many by surprise, for reasons ranging from his elite play to the fact that the team held a $22MM club option over his services for 2022, he wasn’t the only retirement party recipient this winter. Left-handed reliever Tony Watson, who spent three and a half of the last four seasons by the Bay, also called it a career after shoulder issues dashed his 2022 ambitions. The 36-year-old reliever was no lock to return to the club even if his health permitted, but it’s worth remembering that in a lights out bullpen last season it was Watson who was the least hittable.
A pair of retirement decisions were out of the Giants’ control, but they struck early and often to keep some of their top 2021 talents in the fold. On November 7 the team exercised a trio of very affordable club options to keep infielder Wilmer Flores, left-handed reliever Jose Alvarez, and right-handed reliever Jay Jackson under team control. Alvarez racked up ground balls en route to a career season, and should team with fellow lefties Jake McGee and Jarlin Garcia to minimize the blow of Watson’s exit. Jackson, interestingly, was flipped to the Braves for cash or a PTBNL shortly after his option was picked up. Flores, meanwhile, was the consummate utility infielder last season, backing up first, second, and third base while posting a 111 OPS+ across 139 games. His easy retainment proves all the more valuable considering the team’s corner infielders, Evan Longoria and Brandon Belt, have racked up a fair bit of IL time in their careers.
Speaking of Belt, the “Captain” forewent an extended trip into free agency after the team issued him an $18.4MM qualifying offer. He’ll continue to man first base at a high level when healthy enough to take the field, though the universal DH may help keep the longest-tenured Giant fresher than he’s been in years past. Keeping Belt around through his age-34 season carries some risk, as he’s endured heel, oblique, knee, and finger injuries the past couple of seasons. Despite those injury concerns, however, Belt is enough of a force at the plate— he hit a team-leading 29 home runs in just 97 games last season— that his upside far outweighs the risk of a single year pact. Belt is currently on the IL after testing positive for COVID.
Belt wasn’t the only captain to have his Giants tenure extended, as the team’s official skipper, manager Gabe Kapler, received a 2-year extension through 2024. The reigning NL Manager of the Year was an integral part of the club’s surprising division title and was credited, along with his fellow coaches, for helping so many of the club’s players reach unexpected heights in 2022. Keeping Kapler atop the coaching pyramid will help keep the coaching staff’s messaging consistent, an important note considering the team lost last year’s hitting coach Donnie Ecker to a bench coach role with the Rangers, denied the Mets a chance to do the same with pitching coach Andrew Bailey, and saw their minor league hitting coordinator Michael Brdar leave for the rival Padres’ hitting coach role.
Several of the team’s reunions had to wait a bit longer, as qualifying offers were not offered to outgoing starters Alex Wood, Anthony DeSclafani, Johnny Cueto, or Kevin Gausman (who was ineligible after accepting a QO in 2020). President of baseball operations Farhan Zaidi made it clear in October that he had interest in re-signing all four pitchers, acknowledging that he and his staff would have to offer multi-year deals to do so. Offering expensive contracts of length hasn’t been Zaidi’s M.O. since taking over the club’s front office in November 2018, as evidenced by the modest one-year deals initially used to sign Gausman, Wood, and DeSclafani. However, with a payroll sitting under $100MM after Belt’s QO decision and the team’s competitive window emphatically flung open, the Giants likely felt they could curb their conservative spending to an extent.
Within a few days of Belt’s new contract the Giants began to make good on their rotation plans, as they re-signed Wood and DeSclafani to respective two and three-year deals, at annual rates of roughly $12MM. Those represent fairly sizable commitments to two early-30’s pitchers with checkered injury histories, but if either is able to maintain their mid-3.00 FIPs moving forward then the innings they do provide should be worth it— and may even be a bargain— for the big market club.
Fast forward to December and the team struck a similar deal with free agent starter Alex Cobb, at two years and $20MM (plus a $10MM club option). The 34-year-old Cobb was hardly the paradigm of a dependable starter during his time in Baltimore, pitching to a 5.10 ERA across 210 innings from 2018-2020, but he turned a corner after being traded to the Angels. A wrist injury wiped out a good chunk of Cobb’s summer, but when he was healthy he missed bats at the highest level of his career and posted a slate of sub-4.00 run prevention metrics. What’s more, Cobb entered spring training throwing harder than ever before, which he maintained into his three regular season starts. Health will remain a concern for Cobb, but that’s true of most pitchers following this year’s goofy ramp-up period. Otherwise, this deal is quite similar to the short-term pacts for Wood, DeSclafani, and Gausman, all of which worked out swimmingly so far for the club.
The Cobb addition has upside, but it surely disappointed some fans to see his signing occur on the same week that Kevin Gausman signed a $110MM deal with the Blue Jays. Gausman, after all, had already established his upside in the Giants’ rotation and was coming off a sixth place Cy Young finish in a very competitive NL field. Though the Giants were presumptive favorites to re-sign the right-hander after two successful seasons with the club, they ultimately never made an offer to retain the All-Star.
Being connected to top free agent talent was a rather prominent theme for the Giants, as their payroll sat under half of their previous $200MM heights entering the offseason. As the non-signing of Gausman demonstrated, however, the Zaidi-led front office likes to spread its money around to limit the impact of any single deal going south. The industry belief during the lockout was that the Giants were unlikely to go to nine figures to sign a free agent, which helps explain the lack of a Gausman reunion and several other non-signings this winter. Other high profile targets of the Giants included Justin Verlander, Max Scherzer, Robbie Ray, Seiya Suzuki, Trevor Story, Starling Marte, Steven Matz, and Marcus Stroman, yet they all eluded the team and netted a contract greater than the ones doled out by San Francisco this offseason.
Another free agent who priced themselves out of the Giant’s comfort zone was Kris Bryant, who landed a massive seven-year, $182MM contract with the Rockies. The size of the former MVP’s contract was a shock, but Bryant’s time in San Francisco was thought to be a layover from the moment of his trade deadline acquisition. Accordingly, his non-signing with the Giants was not a surprise, and the front office prepped fans for that outcome before the offseason was even underway. A lack of movement on the Bryant front isn’t the most exciting outcome for a team who certainly could’ve afforded him, but the Giants have veteran incumbents, like Wilmer Flores, and low-cost alternatives, like outfielder Heliot Ramos, to offer cover at every position Bryant would’ve been signed to play.
San Francisco drew a line on contracts it was willing to give out once the free agent market re-opened back in March, but that didn’t preclude them from handing out contracts altogether. Free agent Joc Pederson was signed to a one year $6MM contract— one thirtieth of Bryant’s deal— to roam the outfield corners in a platoon capacity. The team also handed out its biggest contract of the offseason to left-handed starter Carlos Rodon, a two-year $44MM accord with an opt-out clause that becomes available to Rodon if he pitches 110 innings in 2022.
The Rodon signing seems particularly obvious in hindsight, as the lefty’s effectiveness when healthy is undeniable. That “when healthy” caveat though is what drove his contract demands into the short-term sphere that the Giants like to dabble in, at an annual rate that matches departing ace Kevin Gausman’s contract no less. Should Rodon continue his run of 2021 dominance into 2022, then he’s a lock to head back into free agency after the season. As the Giants have shown with many of their recent starters, they have no problems with one-year pitcher commitments, and may even bring Rodon back if his market isn’t overly competitive. Through his first four starts of the season, Rodon has dominated to the tune of a 1.17 ERA and 43.2 K%.
An added complication in Rodon’s future with the team is his status as a potential qualifying offer candidate. The lefty didn’t receive a qualifying offer from the White Sox, meaning the Giants are eligible to offer one at the end of Rodon’s contract if the qualifying offer system isn’t done away with entirely by July 25 of this year. Regardless of the Giants’ ultimate interest in retaining Rodon long-term, they’ll have him atop their rotation for 2022 as they try to repeat or better the 3.25 ERA posted by last year’s starting staff.
The club’s pitching staff is high in upside, but requires depth as all rotations do. A hallmark of least season’s 107-win club was the emergence of unexpected contributors, and the Giants added some candidates who can fit that bill in their pursuit of more pitching depth. In March, right-hander Jakob Junis was brought aboard for a $1.75MM contract, with left-hander Matthew Boyd joining the team days later on a $5.2MM pact. Junis hasn’t been a particularly effective source of innings since 2018, but he comes with an extra year of team control via arbitration if the team wants it, and given the Giants’ ability to revitalize pitching careers they very well might. Boyd on the other hand has appeared on the verge of breaking out for years, though his end of year numbers always seem to lag behind his evident promise. He’ll likely be recovering from left flexor surgery until the summer, but could follow Gausman’s track and put it all together once he’s healthy and pitching for the Giants.
The Giants went thrift shopping all winter, but some moves that may pay the biggest dividends can come via the minor league contracts they handed out. Longtime Cardinals starter Carlos Martinez joined the club on an incentive-laden minor league deal, and could be a valuable depth option once he’s fully recovered from last year’s thumb ligament issues. Joe Palumbo is another potential hidden gem unearthed by the club. The 27-year-old left-hander ranked among the Rangers’ most promising farm hands through last year, but injury woes sent him to waivers where he was ultimately claimed (and later retained on a minor league deal) by the Giants. Both pitchers increase the team’s depth on minor league contracts with lighter values than departing starter Johnny Cueto’s minor league deal with the White Sox.
Outfielder and Triple-A masher Austin Dean is yet another quiet waiver claim-turned-minor league signee who can make a splash for a San Francisco team that is likely to mix and match its active roster throughout the season. A March trade with the Phillies landed the Giants Luke Williams, a speedy plays-anywhere type who can be stashed on the bench or in the upper minors of a system whose best prospects haven’t reached Double-A. The team’s ongoing habit of accruing as many near-big league options as possible can clearly bear fruit, as evidenced by the two-year $6.25MM extension awarded to slugger Darin Ruf, himself a minor league signee in 2020.
All told, the Giants signed four legitimate starters to fill their rotation and stockpiled enough depth to cover for the departures of several star players, yet there’s still the faintest whiff of the club being too bashful given its available resources. The team certainly deserves the benefit of the doubt given last year’s tour de force performance, and should have plenty of funds earmarked for trade deadline acquisitions. Time will tell if this winter’s moves were enough to make playoff baseball the new normal in San Francisco, something that will be no small feat given the efforts of all four division rivals.
Over 85.5 wins easy money.
This is a pretty fair assessment of the Giants offseason. Ideally, I would have like to see them sign Suzuki or Marte, but both players chose other teams. I think the Giants will not regret missing out on the like if Story.
I hope the pitching coaches see something in Cobb they can help him fix.
I was disappointed that the Giants didn’t sign Suzuki. But time will tell whether that was a mistake or not. MLBTR predicted 5/$55M, and the Cubs gave him 5/$85M. That may turn out to be a huge overpay once we see how it goes with a bigger sample.
Story is off to a terrible start in Boston. Thairo, isn’t hitting great right now, but he’s still hitting better than Story.
I don’t think Cobb needs to be fixed, he just needs to stay healthy.
Did not really hear alot about the Giants farm system in this article, is it a good farm system at all?
Good but few players expected to debut in 2022
They do have a good farm. It’s close to a top ten. MLB had them at #11, in the 2021 preseason ranking, but then moved them to 8th at midseason. Once again they’re at 11 in the 2022 preseason. Bleacher Report has them at #4, but I’m not as high on them.
I can’t help but wonder if their interest in Bryce Harper was ever even real? Was it solely ownership, or was Farhan really ever on board?
Big fan of Farhan, but I’m curious if he’ll ever go after any of the big fish, or just dabble in the small ponds looking for the “big catch” ?
So far. he’s had a pretty good deal of success with the small pond fishing. Look at the guys he’s brought it on either short-term deals or just value-finds:
Short-term contracts:
Gausman, Wood, DeSclafani, Pomeranz (who he traded for Dubon), Rodon, Cobb, Pederson, Flores, McGee, Alvarez
Waiver Claims & Trades:
Yastrzemski, Wade, Estrada, Jarlin Garcia
Random FA signings:
Ruf, Leone, Littell
When you can win 100+ games with a group like that, why wouldn’t you keep searching in the small ponds?
@Central Valley, I made the same claim about Harper last year and was roundly put down by Farhan zealots; I’m a fan of the Giants and appreciate Farhan but he is viewed by some in a Cult like way which I don’t subscribe to. I need hardware before I drink the Kool-Aid and until then I’m on Team Sabean.
I believe the Harper offer was window dressing for the fans. The Giants have a good relationship with Boras and he can accommodate a spin move for a past or future favor.
That said, the 2021 results speak for themselves. Zaidi’s thrifty processes and minor league signings are working. The Giants are using their resources in non-traditional ways by diversifying money and not putting most of it into one or 2 big free agent signings; it should be called Moneyball 2.0, a big market team using their resources to outpace smaller market teams with minor league signings to accumulate depth. Take Cobb for example. He had a bad start yesterday but his contract isn’t an albatross. On the flip side, the Giants signed Junis to a small contract and all he’s done in 2 games is throw 10 IP and 0 ER. Luis Gonzalez and Carlos Martinez are great examples of minor league depth signings.
The next big test for Zaidi will be taking the depth he’s accumulated and making a “Big Trade”. Bryant doesn’t meet that criteria as he was a rental and the acquisition cost was relatively low.
I like Farhan, I do. He’s smart, cunning and already has a great track record. But he’s not perfect and eventually he will be gone. And when that happens I’ll still be a Giants fan and his cult can follow him to his next job. #Cozart/Will Wilson deal was a mistake.
First of all, I’m a fan of FZ, not a zealot, and don’t blindly applaud every move. I’ve been critical of more than one of his acquisitions, or lack thereof.
You say “cult”, but I’ll counter with “conspiracy theory”. It makes absolutely no sense that FZ would court Harper simply as a show for the fans.
Any agent that felt he’d been used that way, would not form a good foundation for a working relationship going forward. And it would be a problem for other agents when word got around.
How anxious would players be to sign with the Giants if they thought FZ was that conniving to use a player for such a cynical purpose?
And what about the other teams. Do you think FZ would run the risk of appearing to run the bidding up an a FA that he had no intention of signing?
On top of all that, GMs/PBOs don’t operate to please the fans. All that most fans care about is a winning team on the field. To think FZ would go to those lengths to try and fool the small portion of fans that care about the team’s operation to that extent is absurd.
Such a move would have limited benefit, while risking huge relationship problems throughout MLB. FZ is smart enough not to do something so stupid.
It’s my recollection that the Giants’ interest in Harper stemmed more from ownership than from Zaidi. It doesn’t take a GM / VP of Baseball Ops to sign a free agent: remember the Giants’ incoming ownership group signed Barry Bonds themselves in 1992, even before they hired Bob Quinn as their GM,
The best signing the Giants have made in recent years is Farhan Zaidi. I think he’s one of the sharpest people in baseball right now. I don’t know why he flies so far under the radar. I guess it’s a time zone thing.
I think you’re right, but SF still needs to prove that last year wasn’t a fluke. I believe Zaidi’s moves have shown a lot of tact, but there are many that believe that last year’s veteran core pulling out career years was anomalous.
In this game skill + luck = success. Something to prove every year. Zaidi got all the right bounces last year for sure, and that’s a difficult repeat, but he also made the choices that created the opportunity for it to happen. So credit where credit is due.
Well said.
The guy is humble. Nothing flashy and attention seeking about Farhan. Intelligent, disciplined and humble. Great combo for success. The best part is that he is building a club based on those same traits.
Anyone think Farhan will offer Belt another contract for next year?
I agree with most, Farhan is a brilliant baseball mind that definitely has this team heading in the right direction. I trust he knows what he is doing.
I was disappointed to see the lazy take attributing last seasons success to “…career years from the Giants’ veteran roster…”. I expect that from fans trying to explain away the Giant’s success, and why their predictions were so wrong. But I expect more from someone writing for MLBTR.
Granted, a lot of the vets, like Belt, had good years, but Belt played on 97 games. Crawford, and perhaps Ruf were the only ones to have career years. How much of a career year did Longo have missing half the season and posting his 8th highest OPS+? Posey looked revitalized, but he posted his 3rd highest OPS+, 32 points lower than his actual career year.
Some guys like Solano, and Yastrzemski, actually had below average seasons. Tommy La Stella did not have a good year, let alone a career year.
As to the pitchers, Gausman had a career year, but seeing that he’s having a better one this season indicates it was no fluke. DeSclafani equaled his best. But Wood was below his average ERA+, and Cueto certainly wasn’t anywhere close to a career year.
Terrible Cobb signing. Should have known better
It’s way too early to know whether this signing was good, or bad. It’s 10 innings for Pete’s sake. To call it “terrible” is hyperbole.
He’s an injury risk. But if he stays healthy and gives the Giants something close to the 118 ERA+ he gave the Angels, it will be a good signing. If he reverts to his career average of 105 ERA+ it’s an okay signing.
The only way it can be terrible is if he’s injured all this year and next.
On paper they are an 83-88 win team which is higher than they were projected last year when they were a projected 75-85 win team.
They had so many anomalies happen it’s not even funny. Tons of luck.
Veterans that were DFA candidates just 2 years ago went off (Belt and Crawford) and they had a 35 yr old catcher put up some of the best numbers of his career as well.
On top of that they had 2 starters that were career #4’s (Gausman and DeScafalini pitch like they were an ace and a #2 respectively.
Then all of their lesser known players had good years as well such as Wade and Flores. They had a lot go in their favor and they surprised everyone.
If someone says they are not surprised by their 107 win season they are simply Giants homers. This team was at best an 85 win team last season and this season they will have tons of regression.
One has to figure the Padres stacked team will not fall flat on their faces like they did last season as well.
Look for 85-88 wins this season. Sorry but Bart is no Posey and Rodon is injury prone. Cobb sucks and Wood is an average #3 starter at best. Webb is a beast and he should continue to get better but the lineup has some question marks as well.
Pederson is off to a great start but if he was a .300 hitter with 35 HR power he wouldn’t have bounced around so much. Look for his BA and OBP to take a dive.
Last year they were a replacement level team on paper that had 97% of the season go in their favor and that simply will not happen again.
Now if they went from 76 to 87 to 96 and kept getting better each year then yes I would say this is a team on the rise but that isn’t the case.
Half the team had career years at age 35 and that is very rare. It’s normal for a few players to have career years in their mid 30’s but not all from the same team in the same year while career scrubs have career years too on the same team. Come on you can’t script that.
Last season was 50% anomaly and 35% luck and 15% skill. Let’s face it they surprised everyone and that simply won’t happen again even if they had melt their same exact team from last season they wouldn’t top 90 games this season.
Facts people….facts….
Facts? Half the team did not have career years, let alone at 35. The Giants had a total of 4 players 35 or older; Kazmir (who threw all of 11 innings), Cueto, Watson, and Longoria (who played only half the season). Watson was the only guy to contribute significantly.
See my post above.
Your post is all about you being unable to admit you were wrong last year. So you’re left with a bunch of lame excuses like; they all career years, and it was only luck. I’m surprised you didn’t claim the umpires were biased in their favor. You continue to exhibit your lack baseball acumen. You are truly someone that can’t see the forest for the trees.
Crawford and Belt and Posey all mid 30’s having “career type” years in the same season that Gausman a career #4 and DeScafalini a career #5 had their best seasons on top of the emergence of Wade? Nope not luck at all….lol
If they were that good they would have been projected to win more than 85 wins by at least 1 or 2 experts and they were not.
Most baseball realists had them winning between 75-85 games at most. The Padres underachieved and the Giants overachieved it’s as simple as that.
They simply will not win more than 90 games this season. Plain hard truth. Sorry but Crawford and Belt will see regression and Posey their unquestioned leader is gone.
Bart is not the hyped catcher that he was projected to be and he definitively isn’t able to replace Posey’s production or leadership.
When I say most experts I wasn’t just talking about myself….I meant most experts as in all but maybe one said the Giants were still retooling and should finish 3rd in the division.
For good reason too I mean they were coming off a string of 4-5 bad seasons where they were a bottom 15 team maybe even bottom 10 team.
Had they started climbing before their magical 2021 season I would say they are trending upwards. Gradually getting better etc.
But that isn’t the case. They sucked the last few years and struck gold in 2021 on almost every signing. Nearly impossible to do. Now they are down their leader and they are without the boost from Kris Bryant.
Bart is no Posey
Pederson is no Bryant
Rodon is as good as Gausman, probably better when both are in top form, but how long will he stay healthy?
They weren’t going to repeat 2021 even with the same exact team and that is a fact. But they lost their unquestioned leader in Posey and even with him as I said they weren’t winning 107 games or even 95 games this season.
Look for regression and look for 85-88 wins and 3rd place behind the 2 stacked teams bit ahead of the 2 teams on the 10 year rebuild plan….
So I guess you’re clueless as to how well Gausman is pitching for the Jays. He has a 167 ERA+, 11.7 SO/9, and a league leading 0.50 FIP, as well as not having issued a BB, or given up a HR this season, in, also a league leading, 31.2 IP. He’s also pitching in a very tough AL East. If you think that’s a #4, you need to reassess. It certainly brings into question your self-proclaimed expert credentials.
Projections are irrelevant. Anyone that puts any value on them is on a fool’s errand.. Really going out on a limb predicting the Giants win total will be less this year, aren’t you? Everybody and his grandmother know that.
Look at the 1932 and 1933 NYYs. The ’32 club also won 107 games and the WS. The 1933 team, with the same roster, which included 6 HoFers of the 8 position players, and 2 HoF pitchers, won 90 games and finished 2nd. That’s how valuable projections are.
You obviously didn’t read my earlier post pointing out that 2021 was far from a career year for Posey, or most of the Giants roster. It was Posey’s 3rd best, 32 points of OPS+ below his best.
The only players in their 30’s that had career years were Crawford and Ruf. You’re wrong about Flores. In his 5 previous seasons to 2021 he averaged a 112 OPS+. In 2021 it was 110, so he had an average year for him. Solano and Yastrzemski had below average years for them.
Maybe you should look at stats before exposing your ignorance.
It’s okay to admit you’re clueless about why the Giants are successful, but I’m not surprised you don’t get it. The Giants put Wade, and Pederson in situations where they can be productive. Do a little research instead of using weak excuses that can’t hold up, only because you can’t admit you don’t know as much about baseball as you think yo do.
And you and JJJHS are two of the biggest Giants homers on this page.
This is not a good team and wasn’t the years they won the WS.
Underdogs in each series all 3 years. That’s hard to do after winning in 2010 and 2012 yet still be the underdog in each series in 2014….
Look this up if you want. The Giants 3 WS teams are all in the top 10 worst lineups to ever win a WS.
Yet they got lucky hits when it mattered from scrubs that most teams couldn’t even find a use for….
Go down the list of heroes they had come up big during their 3 WS runs….you will see their careers sucked and the Giants went dumpster diving for them and came up golden….
On top of that they win zero titles without Bochy and that is a fact….
Only a Giants homer would be on their nits saying they are some super team….lol
This team is like the A’s they are both well ran and will threaten to make the playoffs even in a rebuild year but make no mistake….it’s not because of talent….they both have a top of grit and a ton of luck….
The Giants got hot last year and had some anomalies happen while the padres fell on their faces….that won’t happen again….
I can name several teams that lost the WS or didn’t even make it to the WS that were better than the Giants last season and the Giants from all 3 WS winning teams….
The best team doesn’t always win….it’s usually the hottest team….
Take the Giants 3 WS teams for instance….were any of them better than the Astros of say 2 years ago when they were absolutely stacked?
No way no how. That Astros team was one of the best teams put together in a long time and I have been avidly following baseball for nearly 40 years…..still that Astros team was one of the best I have seen in a long time….
No one will ever say that about any Giants team from their WS years or from last years anomaly season…..lmao
They are a middle of the pack team that almost always overachieves….only a homer would think otherwise….
Sorry mate but I will not argue a moot point….I know what I know….you can think they are the second coming of the Bronx Bombers but you would be dead wrong….
“Too early to say Cobb was a bad signing”
Lmfao….Cobb has never been good….oh except maybe his one anomaly type season but other than that he sucks….
Let’s face it….he would be like the 10th starter in LA or SD….lol
Only a Giants fan would say give him time…..my lord Cobb sucks I can tell you that right now….a terrible signing and a waste….
Much of what you say is accurate enough, but I can’t agree that Cobb has never been good. He’s had way too many seasons in the majors to draw that conclusion. Cobb is the sort of middling journeyman starter available for $10M these days. The Dodgers are paying $8M to Heaney and he’s a total rehab case. And I’d much rather have seen the Dodgers sign Rodon, even with his history (or Wood) than either of Heaney or Anderson.
“This is not a good team and wasn’t the years they won the WS.”
Mr. Freud, I give you the classic case of denial. When proven wrong you just claim, luck, fluke, or whatever lame excuse you can come up with. You’re just excuse, after excuse.
Worse of all you offer zero proof. You say facts, yet offer no stats whatsoever. You just proclaim anything you like to be the truth. It’s just just selective anecdotal occurrences to fit your deluded narratives. Sorry, those aren’t facts.
Give me some stats that back up what you claim, otherwise you’re just hot air. And not only do you not offer any stats, you ignore the stats that I did provide. I guess when you can’t refute facts, you just ignore them.
The point can’t be moot when no point was made to begin with. You have zero credibility.
Go look up the top 10 worst lineups to win a WS….depending on the website you find you will see that all 3 Giants WA teams are in there….lol
I have seen better teams not even make the WS than those 3 WS teams they produced because of Bochy….
I know baseball and like many baseball experts no one and I mean no one had the Giants winning more than 87 or 88 games last season….they have been and will always be overachievers and they surprised everyone last season….
Anyone who says they weren’t surprised are total Giants homers….as far as Gausman yes he has been a #4 his entire career (check his career stats) with the upside of a #2…..he is having another great season but look for regression soon in a tough division…..
Soon all of my predictions will fall into place and you will see that last year was an anomaly for the Giants….
About the aging vets all I said was that 2 years ago they were DFA candidates and voila last year in their mid 30’s they raked….
This happens to some players in their mid 30’s….but 3 or 4 on the same team in the same year that pitchers Gausman and DeScafalini also have career type years for them anyways….
All that plus Flores and Wade were producing I mean geez I bet Slater would have torn it up too with the water they were drinking…..
I can’t explain their success nor can anyone else…..the talent simply wasn’t there to match 107 wins….
They had great years from some aging vets that were considered DFA candidates just 2 years ago….they had career years from 2 starters that were generally considered back end arms….the pitching hurt Braves couldn’t find a use for Gausman….
Come on man you act like you seen them winning 100+ games and taking the division from the far superior Dodgers…..yeah only a homer would…..
The last 5 years have been hard on the Giants overall and out of the blue they win 107 games not with a rebuilt roster after a 5 year rebuild but with the same aging vets that were considered done just 2 years ago….
Not to mention Ruf the career DH type 1B that thrived in his mid 30’s…..they had a lucky season that is one for the record books but none of that will happen again….
Look for a 3rd place finish and done regression from their veterans…..also look for Gausman to show some regression soon…..
lol @ usafcop. Here we go again.
Let’s see if your “you wait and see, I know baseball better than anyone else” predictions are as wrong this year as they were last year.
Actually my predictions were spot on except for the Giants making the playoffs as I had (as did everyone else) the Padres making the playoffs and not the Giants….
The Padres were without at least 60% of their starting rotation for much of the season and we aren’t talking Alex Cobb or Matthew Boyd type starters….we are talking about Clevinger and Snell and Lamet and Paddack who were all out at different times….that kills a rotation….
Take Gausman away and Posey away and see how many games the Giants win….I mean the Padres were without Tatis for a stretch as well….and he is unarguably better than anyone in the Giants organization….
Padres suffered injuries that are hard to overcome and the Giants had 95% of things go right for them….none of that will happen again sorry….it was an anomaly type season…..
But for you guys to sit here and act like you guys saw a 100+ win team before the season started when everyone and I mean everyone else saw them as a 75-85 win team….is ludicrous….
Nobody except homers saw this coming and that my friend is pure luck to guess that out one with that roster….which even last year was a middle of the pack roster….
But my point is that for anyone to see that as a 100 win team and predict that outcome would be pure luck coming from a homer that says his team will win every year…..and he strikes luck once….
I could literally say the Marlins will be a 93 win team every year and eventually it will happen….or I could say that the Orioles will have a winning record soon and be right eventually….
Nobody saw the Giants as a contender last year and they surprised everyone and had a magical season but that is in the past now and so is their leader Posey…..as well as their overachieving veterans who will not repeat last seasons success….
It’s not hard going out on the limb and saying this team will not win 90 games this season….I would say between 85-88 wins….
Not true. You were tipping regression all last year. Multiple occasions.
It never happened. You were wrong. If your ego can’t have you admit that then so be it.
You ignore the influence of technology, coaching and preparation in the current game. The influence of big names on a
line up card isn’t as great as what it was. The Giants are proving this.
Listen to the way the players talk about the Giants. They tell the story.
Acting like the Giants are a dynasty in the making is like saying Steven Kwan will have a better season than Gerrit Cole….lmfao
If they were that good someone would have had them winning 90+ games but to be honest most experts had them sitting around 80-85 wins at best and that’s being generous as I seen some experts had them winning 74-78 games….
They had a magical ride but it’s over and they should fall back to normalcy this season and sit around 84-88 wins….still not terrible but nowhere near last season’s anomaly….
Watch for Cole to figure things out and watch for the decline of Steven Kwan (this happens every season)
@usafcop
Every prediction I’ve seen has the Giants pegged at 86-90 wins, finishing below the Dodgers and neck and neck with the Padres. Everyone has them making the playoffs. Not sure what more you think the fans are expecting.
It’s also worth pointing out that the team’s record has exceeded preseason predictions every single year since Farhan arrived. (I couldn’t find any site predicting the Dodgers would win as many as 106 last year, either.)
So, I’m not really sure why you’re telling fans not to be excited about this team, when the front office has shown the ability to scrap together a winning roster on the fly, as well as greatly improve a farm system that we’ve barely even begun to see trickle up to the ML roster yet. The future is clearly bright. The present is exciting. What more could you ask for, as a fan?
@GuyNamedChris
Good points you make and I can see why Giants fans would be excited but I was only stating the obvious….there will be tons of regression….they should land around 85-88 games which is higher than they were projected last season….
They are very well ran and they seem to always surprise but they will not sniff 100 wins this year and that’s the point I was making. That last season was an anomaly type season. One for the record books especially with that roster.
I mean if someone said the Dodgers or Astros won 105 games nobody would be surprised. If someone said the Blue Jays or Yankees topped 100 games very few people would be surprised.
But when someone says the Giants from last year won over 105 games the entire world was shocked. Nobody saw that coming. Nobody and it won’t happen again is all I was saying.
But you make good points. Let that fans have hope and let them be excited because they always do seem to surprise (so do the A’s ) for that matter even in a rebuild year.
Good luck the rest of the year.
This is usafcop: No matter how many games the Giants win they’re a bad team. They could keep on winning all year, and take the WS, and they’d still be a bad team.
There’s no middle ground. If you defend the Giants as a solid ballclub you’re saying they’re a great team that will win 1oo games and take the division from the Dodgers. Plus I don’t need stats. The facts are what I say they are.
Plus I know Dinelson Lamet is a much better pitcher than Gausman or Cobb, so I know my stuff.
Please. No one is acting like the Giants are a dynasty. No logical person expects them to win 100 games this year. Why do you insist, when we disagree to your assertion that the Giants are a bad team, do you then accuse Giants fans of saying they’ll 100 games?
You’re right, no one saw the Giants winning 100+ games last season, including me. But my logic is that team was better than anyone thought going in. Your logic seems to be, since no one saw !00+ wins, that they’re still a bad team, just lucky.
You’re also right, that they’ll miss Gausman and Posey. That still doesn’t make them a bad team. Last year FZ built a team of solid above league-average players, with a ton of depth, and used that depth to take advantage of the platoon situation game after game, all season long. He’s trying to do the same thing this year. And that’s only one aspect of how they do things differently
They don’t have stars, which is why you can’t figure how they win, so you ascribe it to luck. No team wins 107 games just by being lucky.
And, BTW, how do you quantify worst lineups to win the WS? All I could find was based on W/L regular season records. But that’s a terrible yardstick. A team could be a great team, devastated by injuries during the season, just make the playoffs when finally healthy, win the WS, and be dismissed as bad because they only won 88 games or so. By that, only the 2014 Giants were in the worst 10.
I found it by searching a few years back for worst lineups to win a WS and seen all 3 Giants WA teams in there depending on the list.
There were a few lists and some only had 2 of their WS teams on the list but one had all 3. This was a few years back.
They weren’t the best team in baseball any of those WS winning years. I mean they were outmatched and underdogs in every series in every season they won the WS.
They faced elimination countless times only to get a lucky bounce or clutch HR from the most unlikely sources.
That my friend is luck and they had a lot of it. Plus Bochy I mean without him they probably win zero WS.
The Astros the last 5 years have had a better team than all of the Giants WS teams by far and they have only 1 WS win in that span.
It’s usually not the best team that wins but the hottest team. Last year the Braves were the hottest team down the stretch but they weren’t the best team in baseball. Top 5 maybe but not #1.
Roster wise the Giants middle of the pack as always but for some reason they win just like the A’s even in a rebuild or retooling year. For that I give the Giants and the A’s kudos because they always scratch for that win.
My point about the Giants over performing is simple math really. The last 3 years the Giants veterans have been considered done or nearly done and some even DFA candidates.
Then Crawford had maybe his best season offensively and Belt smashes 29 Home Runs in less than 100 games. That page puts him at nearly 40 for a full season which doubles his previous high in his age 33 season.
On top of that Gausman who couldn’t even keep his job as 5th starter in the injury plagued Braves rotation ends up being an ace. Disco who was previously a #5 in Cincy pitched like a #2.
Posey who was considered washed up and after missing a season was projected to have an average season at best….turned maybe his 3rd best season offensively at age 34 or 35.
If it was one or two of those things okay I could buy that but all of those things on top of Wade and Ruf performing is just too much of a coincidence and can’t be taken seriously like it will happen again etc.
Too many miracles happened for any of that to happen again. But hey if you are happy with 87-88 wins then great.
The Padres deep rotation was missing 75% of them and that sure helped as well on top of missing Tatis who is by far and away better than anyone on the Giants. In fact you can combine any 2 hitters on the Giants and Tatis is better and certainly more valuable due to his young age.
Take Gausman and Posey away from the Giants last season and they don’t win the division. The Padres lost far more than that. They lost 3-4 good pitchers and Tatis for months.
Oh and by the way I never said Lamet was as good as Gausman. He is better than Cobb but most are.
Gausman would be closer to Snell or Darvish or Clevinger or Musgrove. That’s 4 pitchers that are pretty close to Gausman’s level and all 4 were considered better than Gausman before last season.
Lamet would be more like Disco. Paddack and Gore have more upside than Disco as well. Now with Paddack in Minnesota….the Padres still have Weathers and Gore who is pitching much better than he did last season.
Back to Belt who never was a power threat and actually before last season was considered a light hitting glove first 1B. In his age 33 season he belts 1 HR every 4 games for a page of nearly 40 HR’s. Strange don’t you think?
If that was the only anomaly I would chalk it up as he got stronger in the off-season and worked on his timing as well to become a more balanced 1B instead of being glove first.
But too many things happened for me to believe they all just got better. That roster was an 85 win team at best. They surprised everyone. For that hats off.
I am simply saying look for a 3rd place finish this season and then a rebuild needs to happen due to the aging roster. The A’s can admit when they need a rebuild but the Giants get scrutinized every season for holding onto and signing more aging vets.
Yet here we are for one more magical run. I say they fall flat and regret dealing their vets while they had more value.
As far as up and coming talent I mean the Marlins and Tigers and Mariners of all teams all have better looking futures. All deep in young pitching and hitting. Just saying.
“Too many miracles happened for any of that to happen again.’
I would say too many miracles happened for them too be considered coincidence, let alone miracles. Many teams sign a new player to improve one roster spot. The Giants hired a new coaching staff and improved the entire roster. It’s really that simple. It’s not like nobody’s been talking about this for an entire year now.
Right so while Rodon can easily replace Gausman (if he stays healthy)….who replaces Posey’s unquestioned leadership?
You can all think they will win 95+ games but I simply do not think that will happen. I think more like 85-88 wins is accurate.
Belt and Crawford should see regression and Pederson is no Bryant.
They do have money to spend so if they pick up the right pieces at the trade deadline they can push for 90 wins but that’s only if they aren’t buried by LA and SD by then.
If they are out of it by late July they should sell off some veterans if they can and look towards 2023.
I don’t know where you get the belief that you know so much baseball, because you obviously don’t look at stats. There are just so many things you’ve got wrong, that it’s not worth my while to address them all. Besides, you’ll just ignore the stats I provide, as you’ve already demonstrated. But stats are facts.
But to touch on a couple points:
You say Posey was washed-up. He had two down seasons when he was injured/recovering. He averaged a 135 OPS+ for his career until 2018 when he was injured and had late season surgery. With not enough rehab time he played through 2019. Anyone that follows baseball should know that. It’s just lazy to not find the mitigating factors and just pass it off as being washed-up.
Belt wasn’t considered a power threat only by those that don’t look at stats, or understand them. Belt has a career ISO of .201, which is outstanding power. Anything over .180 is considered good power. You just decide he’s a light-hitting 1B, despite the facts.
Belt played his entire career in a park that statistically was the hardest for LHHs to hit HRs in. Now that they’ve changed the park dimensions, and cut off the wind from knocking down balls hit to RF, he’s hitting balls for HRs that used to be outs. Of course you say the reason is simply a fluke.
I agree, the WS winner isn’t always the best team. All WS winners have some luck. But no bad team, hot or not, even gets to the WS.
Maybe try using some logic to understand why your predictions were off, and not say everything that didn’t go as you predicted was just luck, or a fluke.
First off tad2b13….Belt was considered a light hitting 1B not just by me but many others as he averaged 15-18 HR’s coming from the 1B position. Then he hits 29 in under 100 games which is a pace of nearly 40 bombs.
I always thought of Belt as a poor man’s Eric Hosmer. Glove first and decent average and double power but light on the HR’s. Belt is better than Hosmer now but Hosmer had the better “best season” of the two and the better career.
You can provide all the stats you want to but they do not equate to 107 wins. His many 30 HR guys did they have? How many guys reached 100 RBI’s? How many 18 game winners did they have?
Better teams with multiple 30 HR guys and multiple 20 game winners haven’t won 107 games in a season. Move along with your stats. They simply don’t add up to 107 wins.
They had a ton of luck last season hitting on nearly every signing and trade. Even the teams with the best rotations and best lineups like the Astros and Dodgers need tons of luck to win the WS.
We all know that the Giants last year were not better than any of the teams the Astros or Dodgers fielded the last few seasons. So they needed more luck than a team with superstars.
I am not the only one who said Posey may be washed up. Many people considered him way past his prime as he struggled the past 2 seasons before missing 2020.
Belt and Crawford were considered bad contracts just 2 years ago and the Giants were criticized for holding onto their older players for too long. It’s not just me. They were suppose to retool on the fly and were projected to win 75-85 games at best in 2021.
But nearly every Giants hitter and pitcher outperformed their projected stats along with the fact that some even had career years in their mid 30’s. Even so the output doesn’t equate to 107 wins on paper.
They needed tons of luck and tons of anomalies to happen and they got both. I am sorry man but the talent wasn’t there. They were a bunch of scrappy players that relied on tons of luck and career years from players considered to be bad contracts just 2 years ago.
Nobody would have been surprised if they finished with 82 wins. But everyone was surprised by their 107 wins. I love how Giants fans say they can see how this happened or saw it coming after the fact.
Ain’t nobody and I mean nobody saw that coming nor can they say they can see how it happened because the stats simply aren’t there.
But here we are with 50% of Giants fans claiming they know how they did it. Sorry but how many hitters batter over .300 and how many hit 35 homers or drove in 110 RBI’s or won 18 games on the mound?
There is no explanation on how they did it. I don’t think even the stats cast experts of experts will figure it out. People like you say “yeah I can see how they did it” without realizing that several teams had better lineups and rotations.
I am dropping the mic now but good luck the rest of the way and enjoy 3rd place.
I read the first couple of paragraphs, and since it was total nonsense. I quit reading. For you perception stakes precedence over actual stats. ISO is the definitive power stat, better than SLG. In his 12 year career Belt has had only 3 seasons when his ISO was less than .180. Anyone that understand baseball, and stats, knows that means Belt has, and always has had very good power. To insist that Belt was a light-hitting 1B is to deny facts.
It’s totally irrelevant how many 30 HR guys they had. As a team the Giants hit 241 HRs last season. That was second in all MLB behind the Blue Jays.
The W Sox had two 30-HR guys, but hit 51 fewer HRs as a team than the Giants. By your logic a team can hit a ton of HRs, but it only matters if they’re concentrated between 2 or 3 guys. Not only is that nonsensical, the concept is absurd.
Plus, I don’t give flying fig if you and others considered Belt a light-hitting 1B. Obviously that was a superficial take, Neither you, nor the others you speak of, took the time to look deeper into the numbers. So I don’t care what you and the others thought, since it’s obviously coming from a lack of knowledge about baseball.
I will always know more about baseball than you. Not even a debate. Lmao.
You are a Giants homer who thinks they were the best thing since sliced bread last season.
When in actuality they were a slightly above average team that had everything go right for them.
Last years Giants were not better than any team the Dodgers or Astros fielded the past few years. They had a ton of luck that won’t be here this season. Face it you know I am right.
Last year was a fluke. They are good not great and good teams don’t win 107 games but great teams do.
How many players were in the league leaders in any category? Maybe Gausman in some pitching categories and Belt in Home Runs (which won’t happen again). But they got good production from everyone and that is rare.
It also didn’t hurt that perennial all-star type hitter Bellinger was one of the worst hitters in the league last year and it didn’t hurt that SD was without 60% of their star studded rotation for extended parts of the season.
May was out too for LA. So I mean while the Giants had everything go right for them the Dodgers and Padres had a lot go wrong.
Even Gore the top pitching prospect in all of baseball at the time got lit up. He is back on track now it seems.
Stats aren’t everything. Teams can lead in Home Runs or Runs Scored and still finish 3rd in their own division.
The Giants were certainly not a 107 win team. It’s funny you think so. They got lucky on every signing. It won’t happen again.
Enjoy your 3rd peace 87 win season.
Place*
The day you can name all 30 team’s AA and AAA affiliates and what divisions they play in and name every teams top prospects is the day you can challenge me in baseball knowledge….
I can name all AA and AAA affiliates and tell you what division they are in and who their parent club is and I can name every team’s top prospects as well as surprise prospects that aren’t top 10 in the organization.
I can usually predict what a player will do before the season starts and be very close in most categories barring injuries of course.
I was wrong about Belt and Crawford and Bellinger and Gausman last season but who wasn’t?
I am not saying that because I do fantasy baseball I am a baseball genius. I know several people that are trying out fantasy baseball for the first time for instance that don’t know the players that well but were talked into joining someone’s league so they joined.
In fact we were short in one my 5 leagues last year and one of my buddies had his wife join to fill the league up….otherwise we would have had an uneven amount of teams….
Guess who won that league after making like 2-3 roster moves all season before going into auto pilot mode? She did. Pure luck as she couldn’t name 5 players on her team.
So playing fantasy baseball or even winning a championship in fantasy baseball doesn’t make you a baseball genius…..
What does qualify you as a baseball and stat guru is someone who has been a fantasy baseball commissioner for nearly 40 years and that is because we didn’t have computers adding up our stats for the first 20 years….
Kids these days doing fantasy have it easy as the computer does everything for you. I have seen many players win the ship after auto drafting and making maybe 3 lineup moves all season. Pure luck.
Some of these fantasy players couldn’t babe 5 players on their own team. I know every player on every team and can tell you what they will do before the season starts and be very close in most categories barring major injuries or missing time due to Covid of course.
You see I had to add up all 8 teams stats using a newspaper every day for roughly 20 years before computers started doing it for me.
While most kids in their early teens are trying to score booze or weed I was running a fantasy league with my neighborhood friends. There was 8 of us and we used my baseball cards to keep track of who we drafted. No computers remember.
I added up the stats for all 8 teams every day for nearly 20 years. I am still friends with each of them today but most are not in my leagues these days as we all got married and moved in since our neighborhood days….
Do you the kind of statistical knowledge one gets from calculating stats every day from a newspaper for 8 teams? It got to the point where I could tell you what a player will do before the season even started.
There was a time that I could name every teams lineup and rotation and top prospects and in basketball I could name every teams starting 5 plus every NHL teams first line and starting goalie and every NFL teams skilled position players….all in the same year….so I know my stuff….
Just to clarify some of the comments as some1 who watched every Giants game last yr ..posey provided leadership and hit for a high average but I can count on 1 hand the # of meaningful hits he had ….Gausman was dominant the first half but struggled much of second half after the personal absence. Also, Belt was injured often but did provide some timely hits in last month or two. Bryant had a few hits but overall was a disappointment both hitting and fielding. Yaz had an off yr. As a Giants fan, I didn’t want any of those guys up in clutch situations. Rather, the Giants won because they were the best TEAM during the regular season. Nothing to do w luck. Their starting pitching was amazing and kept them in virtually every game. After struggling the first month or so their bullpen was deep and dominant . And their role players were clutch in the clutch ….. Duggar, Solano, Slater, ruf and particularly Wade. And most of the clutch hits weren’t fluke (ie they were solid contact). Most importantly, 35 had a dominant year hitting and fielding. They may and probably will regress this year but don’t take anything away from them being a dominant team last yr.
Soooo, I enjoyed the back and forth; it’s kind of like Red Sox & Yankees but the cleaned up, made-for-TV version. Anywho, question for you all: which TV broadcast team do you find is the better one to listen to – Giants or Dodgers?