Odubel Herrera is on his way to a rehab assignment with Lehigh Valley, which could mean a return to the active roster by next Friday when the club returns home, per Alex Coffey of the Philadelphia Inquirer (via Twitter). Without Herrera, 25-year-old Matt Vierling has been starting most games in center, but he’s struggled to the tune of a 14 wRC+ (though the sample size is a mere 24 plate appearances).
23-year-old Simon Muzziotti was called up, but Muzziotti has yet to garner regular playing time. Herrera figures to step in as the regular starter when he returns, while Vierling will shift mostly to a short-side platoon. It would not be surprising to see Muzziotti optioned back to Triple-A at that time so that he can get more regular playing time. The Phils have largely been functioning with a four-man bench.
On the whole, the Phillies haven’t gotten off to the kind of start that they expected after a winter that included a couple big-name additions. It’s incredibly early, of course, but today’s loss dropped Philly to 4-6 in their first ten. After noticing some trends he doesn’t like, manager Joe Girardi has started tinkering with his lineups to find better balance, writes The Athletic’s Matt Gelb. Namely, Kyle Schwarber has been bumped from the leadoff spot down to fifth. J.T. Realmuto will move from the two hole down to one. Girardi didn’t like how easy it was for teams to bring in a southpaw to face both Schwarber and Bryce Harper with only Realmuto in between, so Girardi will now use both Nick Castellanos and Rhys Hoskins to separate his lefties.
I remember a Phillies fan mocking me for saying they should sign Gardner, that Vierling was a better replacement. Lol Gardy is no star, but he’d sure as hell have a better stat line than that stiff Vierling.
24 plate appearances…
i doubt that
Hard to be worse
Moniak would have been the left handed cf platoon partner with Vierling. I have always liked Gardner, but he is 38 now, and not a good option defensively in cf.It is that simple.
Damn yo what’s your batting average this year? You must be cookin !!
As I’ve noted in multiple comments before, I was big on the Pillar train. Hell, I’d still be down to purchase him from the Dodgers who are stashing him as minor league depth right now, as he absolutely abuses Triple-A pitching.
Vierling is a better option than Gardner. It’s like people forget what Gardner was last year. There’s a reason the Yankees, who also need CF help, did not sign Gardner. It’s time to let him go for real.
I love Gardner, but he is cooked. He just doesn’t have the bat speed anymore to be a hitter.
JT may be the best base-hit hitter on the team and is assuredly the best base-thief. I think this is a no-brainer.
He hits. Put him at the top of the lineup and let him get on. I’m even concerned with stolen bases from him. The Phillies need a consistent lead off hitter.
They had/have one in Segura.
Did Girardi not anticipate that batting the lefties close together would make it easier for the other team to bring in a lefty to face them? Seems like that should have been obvious before the season even started, let alone figuring it out 10 games in.
Girardi didn’t anticipate Schwarber starting off 3/32. Harper hits lefties pretty well. The line- up would have been good if Schwarber was producing, as anticipated.
You would have thought they’d have anticipated his streakiness. Not many better when he’s on… but not the most consistent track record.
I agree. The line-up’s that Girardi are rolling out are questionable.
As an armchair manager, here’s how I would do it:
1.) Segura
2.) Realmuto
3.) Harper
4.) Hoskins
5.) Castellanos
6.) Didi
7.) Schwarber
8.) Stott/Bohm
9.) Vierling
Segura
Herrera
Castellanos
Harper
Hoskins
Schwarber
Realmuto
Didi
Bohm
Odubel ia injured
Segura
Hoskins
Harper
Castellanos
Realmuto
Schwarber
Bohm
Gregorious
Vierling
….is, imo, the optimum lineup. if Schwarber starts swinging it then switch him & Segura and leave it. Hoskins should always bat #2 and Bryce / Castellanos / Realmuto back to back to back should be able to get them in. Starting with Realmuto–Gregorious you have a better 1-4 than some other big league teams. i would like to end this post by saying that Joe Girardi is a joke and Dusty Wathan should be the head coach of this team.
I know it’s early and a sss, but I’m glad Camargo seems to be doing well in Philly.
Hopefully he keeps it going, except when he faces the Braves, of course.
This is a bad team with contracts that cannot be moved. Great job front office. Start by moving some of these guys that everyone thinks are stars. Hoskins, Nola and Gregorious package can get you some major league ready players to play along with some of these overbloated contracts
Yikes dude who peed in your cheerios. Give it some time before you start trading away players
You’re about as fair weather as fair weather gets.
no
This seems like an emotional post, but I’m not completely against trading away vets during the season. I wouldn’t be opposed to bringing up Kingery to replace Stott to give him some more seasoning, and assuming success, flip Didi at the deadline and then give Stott the opportunity.
That’s if, and only if, Kingery puts up palatable numbers and Stott succeeds in the minors.
For context, I’m against the idea of teams being buyers and sellers. If you have a guy leaving as a free agent and unlikely to garner QO consideration (or ineligible), and you have a younger guy that you could replace them with, get something for them before they leave for nothing. Is it a risk? Sure, but so is expecting a prospect to be an heir apparent upon the veteran’s departure.
Give the team a chance before determining whether the season is a bust or not and it’s time to trade. As long as my team is around 500 come June 1st I’m optimistic about making a run. It’s 32 at bats for Schwarber and if he plays every game or close to it he should get 600 at bats. That is 5% of his at bats he’s had, not nearly a big enough sample to predict future outcomes.
I been telling anybody who will listen on here that Philly is one of the worst run teams in Major League Baseball. Every offseason Philly writes big checks and then the season starts and the wins don’t follow..
what should they do, Barry, spend nothing like the pirates? You strike me as the prototypical “I’ll complain if they do A and I’ll also complain if they do B” kind of person.
Remember, just a year before he was with Wash. and Boston, Schwartz’s was nontendered by the Cubs. Never sign a player based on one year. It could work out, but the odds are against you.
I agree with this assessment. I wasn’t huge on the Schwarber signing when it happened, as I believe that they were paying for the name, as opposed to the production. Yes, he was great in 2021, but he’s a three outcome hitter who can’t play defense, of which they already have multiple.
While I’m not a big fan of Schwarber, he traditionally starts slow…like always. So it wouldn’t surprise me if he starts tearing it up in June and makes us all look silly for doubting him. That was kind of his trajectory last year.
His 2021 BA success aside, Yes, it does take “Babe” Schwarber awhile to rev up to his .235 typical line!
His OPS is usually pretty solid, but yes. Right now Schwarber looks like Joe Blanton, and I don’t just mean physically…I mean he’s hitting like a pitcher. It’s bad.
Random fact: Blanton is the last pitcher to hit a homerun in the World Series. And now with the DH, no one will ever do it again.
Ohtani could do it as a pitcher! Oh wait nevermind… that would require the Angels to make the postseason. Looks like Blanton’s record will live on!
Technically it wouldn’t count as a pitcher homer it would be a DH homer.
Coming from a family of Phillies fans, my Easter family reunion consisted of substantial Phillies debate. While I’m admittedly more pessimistic than my family is, we came to the conclusion that it’s a long season and between us, the Mets and the Braves, it’s going to come down to who can stay healthy. Yes, the defense is horrendous and Wheeler has me very worried considering the loss in velocity, but it’s safe to assume that all the offense needs is a few more guys to heat up, which is probable with the absolute gauntlet of a line-up that we’re wheeling out there every day, will be able to win us quite a few games. Furthermore, I’m comfortable with Eflin and Ranger, and Nola has been good for long enough where I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, despite my concerns. As for Gibson, the first game was encouraging enough where I’m not too worried yet, and only expect him to put up back of the rotation numbers anyway.
I also think that the bullpen has enough reliable pieces in Seranthony, Familia, Hand and Knebel that we’ll be able to lock down close games, which has been an issue in the past.
THAT BEING SAID
The entire Phillies player development staff needs to be overhauled. Based on the organization’s history of ruining talented prospects, with Stott’s initial struggles, we discussed how we were worried about the Phillies casting him off and not giving him a proper opportunity to continue to develop in the minor leagues, eventually losing him for next to nothing in the next two years, as they did Luke Williams and Adam Haseley. With the recent group of “failed” prospects (who are still young enough to figure it out), a lot of it stemmed from keeping Odubel in the minor leagues so that he didn’t count toward the luxury tax. He was suspended 85 games, and they just sent him outright and kept him in AAA despite a strong showing in Spring Training 2021. It made no sense. What would have made sense would have been to use the established major league veteran in center field, allow Haseley to either serve as the 4th outfielder initially or go to Triple-A to get more at-bats against left-handed pitching, which he has traditionally struggled with, and only got four at bats against that year in Spring Training, and keep Moniak in Double-A, where he had been among the youngest players at the level the year prior, and while he posted reasonable numbers, they were by no means suggesting that he had mastered it. Instead they rushed both Hasely and Moniak and hurt their development.
Furthermore, they opted to keep 28 year old Damon Jones, who has never even sniffed palatable numbers in YEARS, and insisted on keeping Ryan Sherriff, who’s an up and down reliever, on the roster over keeping guys like Adonis Medina and Luke Williams, who are both young and have the potential to be good to very good major leaguers in the near future. Hell, Luke Williams is doing a very nice job (albeit in a limited sample size) on a team that won 107 games last season. You’re telling me a team that didn’t make the playoffs couldn’t give him an opportunity?
Meanwhile, a 25-year-old Scott Kingery has 36 bad games in the COVID season that was so flukely that the Marlins made the playoffs, after a very promising 2019 season and proceed to only give him 19 major league plate appearances in 2021 after giving him guaranteed money. He wasn’t given any opportunity to bounce back and figure it out, even as a super utility guy.
I’m worried that Stott is doomed to be the next on a long list of talented young players who the Phillies either completely ruin or ship away for nothing and has success elsewhere.
As for Vierling, Vierling is Vierling. His success was limited in the minor leagues and his 2021 showing was bolstered by a BABIP over .400. His ceiling is a fourth outfielder at best, and more likely the kind of player who signs minor league deals and might get cups of coffee here and there as he gets older. He’s not that good in general.
Testing
Phillies2017;
Be careful of Wheeler…..
His history with the Mets was hitting a streak that made it appear he’d broken through to being a superior pitcher, only to fall back again to an inconsistent #3-4 starter.
I realize it’s early in the season, but as a Phillies fan be prepared.
I’m anticipating a serious injury, if I’m being honest. While I hope that’s not the case, he pitched the most innings of his career last season by a wide margin. His velocity was 97 last year, he had 95 in his first start and was about 93 today. We got two good years out of him, which, in free agency, is all you can realistically expect, but I think this chariot is turning back into a pumpkin. Especially given his previous injury history.
I think the shortened spring training is killing Wheeler. I think he rested more in the off-season knowing he just threw the most innings he’s ever thrown. I just don’t think his arm is 100% ready yet give him a few starts.
They replaced their entire developmental staff over the past two years. Now we just have to sit back and wait… for 5-6 years to see if it worked. Free agents in the meantime.
The concern for me is Nola. He had progressively gotten worse over the past 3 years. Without a strong #2 the Phillies aren’t going to do anything. Additionally the bullpen still looks like last years bullpen. This is about 5 years running now of crap pitching. Oh well, it is a long season.
I disagree about the pen. Familia and Kneubel have looked very good.
Familia! Lol.
So far the Phillies are as anticipated…….
If they hit a lot; the pitching is half decent; and they don’t screw up too much on D; they can win that day……the NL’s version of the Yankees.
For years their coaching has been awful. The quality organizations in MLB have philosophies of how to work with pitchers, hitters. defenders, base runners, etc. The Phillies didn’t have that before Gerard came. Dombrowski came and nothing has changed. Until it does, the Phillies will be thanking the Nationals for ether rebuilding or disseminating the roster in lieu of selling the franchise so they don’t wind up in last place in a highly overrated NLE. At this point Miami has the pitching to finish ahead of them (and the Mets as well).
The Mets lead the league in starters ERA.. without the best pitcher in baseball or Walker. The Marlins pitching is young, unproven, and likely to see their fair share of injuries (in addition to Sixto and Cabrera).
The whole league is in the same situation. Who is dominating anything? It’s extended Spring Training right now. Every team is still figuring things out. Relax!!!!!
Dodgers and Giants are starting right where they left off in 2021
” It’s extended Spring Training right now.”
@ gregorydefelice;
For decades I’ve heard players complain that ST is too long. That there’s no reason for it and it should be shortened.
The majority of players in all professional sports complain about everything if they’re not going good. Last year Andrew McCutchen played terribly. At one point he held an interview and said multiple times: “I suck”. He owned it. If you want to jump on the bandwagon with their agents and the media to make excuses for them, that’s fine. It’s a profession and they’re paid astronomical salaries. Ticket prices are not dropped in April, and games don’t count 70%.
The quality players and quality teams come prepared to play and do.
That’s one of many reasons McCutchen has always been one of my favorite players. If he isn’t producing he owns it, and if he is producing but the team isn’t winning he doesn’t point fingers.
Red sox fans: HOW COULD YOU TRADE KYLE SCHWARBER
because he kinda had 2 good months and hes not that good? I wasnt surprised we traded him, i was a lil surprised that he was available as long as he was, i think he signed in Feb, even with the lockout, goes to show you from last year, the red sox never wanted him back.
Just shows how many Red Sox fans like you think……
Kyle Schwarber was not traded.
… it meant traded for him. That seems obvious based on the context of the sentence.
well in our defense he also wasnt a need, hes not an outfielder and we didnt have a fit for him, other than a 2nd DH ,
Dombrowski WILL improve your team, he spends and trades everyone, just dont be surprised if in 4 years you realize you have absolutely no minor league team, he gutted our system.
1, Dombrowski is old and will not be with the Phillies in 4 years. He doesn’t need the headaches. He’s there to transition the roster to something resembling decency – which will be a big improvement from the one he took over.
2. Dave Dombrowski made his name in MLB as a boy wonder by building a superior Montreal farm system on a small budget. That allowed the Expos to stay competitive since his quality major leaguers would leave in FA because the team couldn’t afford to pay them. From there he went to Detroit where he inherited nothing – a poor ML roster, a poor farm system (at one point the fans and media asked him why he didn’t make trades – he responded by saying publicly that the Tigers didn’t have any players that the other teams wanted…LOL …and true). He built up their farm system and made great trades. They were a contender for years. The players could not kick in the door to the WS. No one to blame – other teams played better on the field. That’s how competition works.
3. Dombrowski was hired by the Red Sox to get together a WS team. He did. The players won a WS. Now you endless entitled Red Sox fans complain that he “gutted the farm system”…..before that you were complaining that the Red Sox needed “To Win Now”. When it was happening did you fans and Henry not know what was going on? Did you complain when they won the WS? Do you think when John Middleton enticed Dombrowski to come out of retirement to run the Phillies that he didn’t know the situation – the franchise literally had nothing to trade and a below average farm system? That the only thing he (or anyone) could do to turn that team around quickly was to spend money on FA’s and take on salary in trade?
With the exception of the Braves the NLE is an incredibly weak MLB division. But the national sports media continues to be in the industrial northeast (for over 100 years now) so teams and players in NYC, Boston and Philly have lots of money to spend / receive lots of money – and get endless national pub. The quality MLB franchises are located elsewhere.
but michael kopech was/is a complete bust for chicago so ya
but hey, props to him, he turned 2 subpar months in boston into a 4 year contract.
In other news, Nestor Cortes has 17 Ks in two starts — so why isn’t he listed on MLB’s stats page? It’s currently showing Carlos Rodon with 21 Ks, followed by Dylan Cease with 16.
mlb.com/stats/pitching/strikeouts?split=sp&pl…
If you select Starter as a split, he doesn’t show up; but if you eliminate that category he shows up. He’s only pitched in two games and he started both of them. I know a starter can’t qualify for a win if he doesn’t last five innings, but is it not considered a start if he starts the game but doesn’t go five innings? I’m guessing that must be the distinction that’s keeping him off the first list. But it’s confusing because he’s credited with two starts under the GS (Games Started) column:
mlb.com/stats/pitching/strikeouts?playerPool=ALL
dude is NASTY, im not a yankee fan but damn can he pitch
I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that Schwarber batting lead of was a Maddon’s failed experiment in Chicago, such it was that almost ruined Kyle’s carrer and at the point he was sent to the minors. I’m not a Phillie’s fan, but why to insist batting him leadoff? Isn’t Girardi, as Maddon is, a seasoned manager? When I read for the first time he was batting leadoff, maybe because he is “good” at the second spot made me think, that it was going to be it for Kyle as a Phillie. Season is just starting, so it was a good call to lower him to the 7th spot in the lineup until he figures it out again. Never try him in other than second, fifth or seventh in a lineup card.
To oversimplify things, the Phillies are a team built around their offense, and right now pitchers are ahead of hitters almost league wide. The Phillies offense will turn it on at some point, but the question is, will the hole they dig be too deep by then?
As for Wheeler, of course I’m concerned, but Wheeler didn’t have any spring training. He should have started the year in the minors to get some throwing in. It was stupid to chance it, but the Phillies lack of depth forced them to gamble that Wheeler would magically be okay without any spring training reps.
There is reason to panic in Philadelphia. I pictured them as a fringe playoff team with an exciting offense and decent starting pitching. Their offense is MIA and their pitching has been getting rocked.
On the plus side, I’m liking the backend of that bullpen. There’s no doubt the Phillies are better when their current record shows. They always start slow. It’s annoying, but that’s the case. Hopefully things pick up.
*than their current record shows
Someone has to get Nola figured out. The Phillies are a bit like the RS. They need to rely on getting quality starts, bludgeoning the ball, and mixing and matching the BP. Neither Wheeler, as you noted, nor Suarez had a proper spring training. I expect both to get better. Gibson & Eflin are reasonable #3/4 types. But y’all have to figure out Nola. He was one of the best in BB just two years ago.
Yes. Nola’s decline has been steady and heartbreaking. It doesn’t make any sense. I’m very concerned about that.
i wouldn’t say steady. the man fell off the face of the Earth last season.
You can pinpoint some struggles starting with the 2020 season, but yes you’re right. 2021 was drastic.
I just think the Phillies aren’t ready. They’re notoriously slow starters and the shortened spring training is really showing. It’s odd because the bats were hot in spring, but non existent now. I mean it’s no excuse because other teams are ready to go. Some of these losses we’re seeing, it looks like the Phillies don’t even belong in the major leagues, but I guarantee you there will be stretches where this teams looks unbeatable. They’re a frustrating team to root for, and although it’s early, I don’t really see them making any major strides this year unless they find some consistency. In my way too early NLE rankings, I have the Phillies in 4th place.
Girardi didn’t like how easy it was for teams to bring in a southpaw to face both Schwarber and Bryce Harper
===========================================
I assume that’s he’s moving him down because he isn’t hitting, but this sounds like a ridiculous excuse. Was Girardi not aware that that opposing managers were going to bring in a lefty? Harper can hit lefties, but he still doesn’t hit them as well as he hits righties. And Schwarber has a weakness He had to know that was coming.
JoeBrady;
I re-read the article. I don’t know that it represents what Joe Girardi said and/or inferred. Maybe he thought both guys could hit LH pitching? The man managed multiple teams that got to and won the WS. Obviously he knows that stacking 2 LH batters in a row can be a problem with LH relief pitchers. However…….
I am wondering about the relief pitcher rule to face 3 batters. If a LH pitcher is brought in to face a LH hitter and the manager has stanched a RH bat between 2 LH hitters, then the relief pitcher is going to face those 2 LH hitters anyway unless the inning ends. I have no answer for what that means, but it surely is a consideration.
The outfield defensive concerns to me haven’t materialized . The main D issues remain at 3rd and 1st. My gut for what that’s worth thinks Alec Bohm might not be long in a Phillies uni. He has been much better at the plate. Maybe just enough to get another teams attention.
I hope Goofy comes back and can hit. DD might be waiting to see how that works out before looking for a center fielder.
I’m not worried yet about Wheeler, but I am very concerned about Nola and his giving up the long ball. Still, first week of the season is behind us. We can only hope it gets better.
Since none of you will say it, and seem to have no problem attaching it to the Mets, who you know, don’t have joke contracts all over their books…
LOL PHILS
You figure Mets fans would learn. Every single year celebrating in month 1. All is right with the world. Can’t fathom anything going wrong until all hell breaks loose. And yet…year after year we have commenters like njbirdsfan who just can’t help themselves. I don’t believe in karma at all, but maybe it’s true. Maybe this is why the Mets can’t complete an entire season.
Also regarding LOLPhils, no one is harder on their own team than Phillies fans. So I doubt you find a single Phillies fan on here who actually thinks the Phillies are solid.
Thank you, i am/we are entitled, boston matters, were great people who think and know we are better than most other people because well, we are, dont like it? well, we dont care, id normally completely tear into a city and you that doesnt win, but you do realize over the last 10 or so years the penguins have won 2 Stanley cups and the eagles have won. So you see, you should support your city. Now i understand the phillies ARENT that good, bad ownership, but DD will help them, whether or not he trades alot of guys, and he did gut our farm system, i understand you dont get what im saying, hell, i dont know your teams minor leagues, but he sent ALOT to chicago for chris sale, 4 major guys, Who again, have nothing for them, except moncada( sry i dont care about him to spell his name right) the only reason why Bostons farm system is MUCH improved is for the fact we got very good prospects back for mookie betts and we have drafted well, jay groome, etc , triston casas is a GREAT player, not good, but exceptional. So ya, thats still not saying while he was here we didnt loose quite a few guys, remember he ALSO traded atleast 3 players for craig kimbrel, which was a disaster from day 1. But get over the fact the phillies are terrible, it has basically nothing to do with boston, we just have better ownership, and i actually LOVE giradi, i was happy when you got him, i wanted us to get him when he was available.
back to my original statement, schwarber isnt that great, lol. He wasnt even healthy when we signed him, and he is NOT a leadoff hitter, number 5 at best.
1 move you guys will regret is harper, signing an aging player whos not gonna be that great in a few years will come back, i HATE when teams do that, plus isnt he hitting so far like 111? but i hate the guy so my feelings arent that biased
@Amanda Harper has been incredible. Can’t agree with you here. A slow start is a just that, slow start.
oh i just meant in general LONG contracts rarely work out, like trout, hes slow and fat yet has a HUGE deal( he also misses 3 months every season) pujols-angels.. ya. horrendous, and lets not forget about 55 yr old Cabrera, harper right now is still good, but fast forward 4 years from now after the phillies dont win, you will be dying for him to be traded, long term deals for guys never work out, why do you think we let mookie get traded? we didnt want anyone on a 9 or 10 year deal to hamstring our organization forever. Kinda like the david price dumpster fire.
Enough