The White Sox were among the many teams showing interest in the Athletics’ available starters, with Sean Manaea and Frankie Montas on Chicago’s target list. Manaea has since been dealt to the Padres, with USA Today’s Bob Nightengale reporting that the White Sox “nearly” landed Manaea instead, and are still looking at Montas. However, the A’s want young slugger Andrew Vaughn back in return, and the Sox are balking at the demand.
It isn’t surprising that the A’s would make such a big ask, considering that Montas is under team control through the 2023 season. Likewise, it is natural that the White Sox wouldn’t be eager to part with a former star prospect who was already in the majors less than two years after being picked third overall in the 2019 draft.
Oakland could also be looking to leverage Chicago’s sudden lack of pitching depth, as Lance Lynn (knee surgery) will be on the injured list until late May and Lucas Giolito (abdominal tightness) is also on the verge of being placed on the IL for what looks like could be the majority of April. The White Sox did recently sign Johnny Cueto, but the veteran will need some ramp-up time after missing all of Spring Training, and might not be available for a few weeks anyway.
Dylan Cease, Dallas Keuchel, Michael Kopech, and Vince Velasquez are now the top four in the White Sox rotation, with Reynaldo Lopez, Jimmy Lambert, or Tanner Banks candidates to fill in for Giolito. Adding a pitcher of Montas’ caliber would be a major help both in the immediate future and beyond, as this is the last guaranteed season of Keuchel’s contract, and it seems unlikely that the Sox will exercise their $20MM club option on his services for 2023.
Then again, Vaughn is also a possible long-term answer as an heir apparent to 35-year-old Jose Abreu, who is also in the final season of his contract. There does remain a solid chance that the Sox will sign Abreu to another extension, so Vaughn could play in a first base/DH timeshare with Abreu, or perhaps see more time as a corner outfielder, even if Vaughn isn’t ideally suited for outfield work.
Another complicating factor is that the White Sox could also use Vaughn’s bat right now, given that the injury bug has also extended to the position player side. Yoan Moncada is on the 10-day IL with an oblique strain and AJ Pollock left yesterday’s game with a sore hamstring, though Pollock doesn’t believe the injury is terribly serious.
Vaughn hit .235/.309/.396 with 15 homers over 469 plate appearances in his 2021 rookie season, resulting in a 93 OPS+/94 wRC+. These are certainly respectable numbers for a player’s first taste of the majors, especially since Vaughn still has so little overall pro experience. After being drafted, Vaughn played in 55 minor league games in 2019 but then didn’t see any official game action at all in 2020 due to the canceled minor league season, instead doing his work at Chicago’s alternate training site. Vaughn spoke with The Athletic’s James Fegan about his rookie year and the adjustments he has made both at the plate and in the field, which includes even taking some grounders at third base as a possible fallback option in Moncada’s absence.
Between Vaughn’s prospect pedigree and his big league-readiness, he is the type of player the A’s have traditionally targeted on the trade market, particularly during their most recent selloff of notable veterans. The likes of Cristian Pache, Shea Langoliers, Adrian Martinez, Kevin Smith, and Adam Oller have all been acquired since the end of the lockout, with Pache, Smith, and Oller already on the active roster.
CALgoldenBears
Vaughn going back to the Bay Area would be awesome. CAL alum. Go Bears!
Buckner
If you believe minor league players are “trade chips” (Omar Minaya quote), then the Mets should send Mauricio to OAK for Montas now. Mauricio is blocked by a ten year contract and they have yet to say what new position he will learn.
Again, only if you believe minor leaguers are trade chips.
jakec77
Mauricio likely is a trade chip.
Presumably, the deal hasn’t happened because either the A’s want more than Mauricio, or because the Mets feel like they can get Montas or better for less. I’m guessing the former.
I actually feel a lot less urgency after Megill’s opening day performance. Yes, it was only one day and the Nationals aren’t good.
But, he’s the 4th or 5th starter- all you need him to do is be good against bad teams, you don’t expect him to dominate the good teams.
So, while it would be great to add a Montas, I’m not sure it’s an absolute necessity.
seamaholic 2
Absolutely. That would be a fine deal for the Mets. The A’s would want more though.
A'sfaninUK
Your logic is sound, but Mauricio isn’t a better SS than Nick Allen. A’s have a black hole at 1B after Olson, Vaughn is a much cleaner fit.
Asfan0780
Then make a lesser trade for Dominic smith or dj davis. Although not involving montas
jim stem
Agree 100% about Mauricio. With Guillorme and Escobar on the active roster and Vientos ahead of him (3b/ss), Mauricio probably only gets a call up if 2 of the other shortstops end up on the IL.
If the Mets can get Montas for Mauricio, I think it’s a quality deal. Maybe it could be expanded to include Seth Smith, for JD Davis, too. Jankowski looks like the perfect 4th outfielder and second CF right now, but that could change.
rct
@AsFaninUK: Mauricio isn’t as good as Nick Allen? Allen will be 24 soon and has never been ranked as a top 100 prospect by anyone. Mauricio just turned 21 and has been a top 100 prospect for three years running (Baseball Prospectus, mlb.com, and Baseball America).
Maybe Allen will eventually be better, but as a prospect/trade chip, Mauricio is unquestionably more valuable.
Buckner
Yup. And Bret Baty, too.
muzzachunka
Vaughn hit his 3rd HR for Sox yesterday so apparently you got @MLB player mixed up with another Andrew Vaughn in minors
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Check your stats. He has 2HR on the year. Still a hot start, but only Buxton currently has 3.
#1WhiteSoxFan
Vaughn has only 2 HRs!
whosyourmomma
I wanted Sox badly to go get Manaea and Sean Murphy with A’s. Could’ve got it done for Vaughn, Burger, Collins & couple mid level prospects. Vaughn is blocked by bunch of current & future OF’s and Abreu & Sheets at 1b.
Giolito, Lynn, Manaea, Cease, Keuchel and Kopech begins year in pen if everyone was healthy.
They should’ve traded Kimbrel for two prospects preferably one pitching prospect. Pollock is always injured! Let Engel and Sheets play mostly RF.
I love Montgomery, kid will be a stud, takes over 3b in ‘24. Or maybe he’s ‘24 SS and TA slides over to 2b!
A'sfaninUK
Your trade proposal is actually perfect, especially if the mid level prospects are pitchers. Burger at 3B, Vaughn at 1B, Collins at C – all nice young players for the A’s to build around. I would do Montas+Murphy for this, but Yasmani would have do accept being a DH-only.
WhiteSoxWinner
Except Zack Collins was traded to the Blue Jays a week ago
louwhitakerisahofer
And the fact that he isn’t a player to build around.
muzzachunka
Hey guys Andrew Vaughn hit his 3rd HR with Sox yesterday so that nice young player to build is already turnt loose on the Southside. And Burger at 3rd right now since Moncada got hurt
#1WhiteSoxFan
Wrong!
Vaughn has only 2 HR’s!
Dogbone
A’s fan , please trust me on this one: You do NOT WANT Burger. Very likely you already have someone in your minor league system that you will see, will be much better, by this time next year. You hold out for Vaughn or don’t make the trade.
waltsneck1
Then there’ll be no trade. The Sox are NOT trading Vaughn.
ChicagowhiteBalls
Dogbone wants the White Sox to trade Vaughn so bad lol
Ogie Oglethorpe
Don’t worry Dumpster Diving Ricky will screw up this trade
ASapsFables
The White Sox rightfully didn’t consider trading Andrew Vaughn in any package for Sean Manaea. I also never saw C Sean Murphy’s name being discussed in any trade rumors, likely because he still has 4 more years of team control available. The White Sox should feel the same regarding a deal involving Vaughn with Frankie Montas.
As for Vaughn being “blocked”, Jose Abreu is 35 years old and in the final year of his contract. Gavin Sheets is a nice player but not in Vaughn’s class as a hitter. If any blocking is going on, it’s Vaughn doing it to Sheets although the White Sox could easily accommodate both in their batting order since they hit from opposite sides of the plate and could see time at DH and the outfield corners. Abreu is only an option at 1B or DH if he decides to continue playing beyond this season and the White Sox are willing to let him retire as a team lifer.
In my opinion, Vaughn has the upside to become a generational type MLB hitter. It would take a player with a similar pedigree in order for me to move him. As an example, if Juan Soto and the Nationals can’t come to an agreement on a contract extension in the next year or so, Vaughn would be an enticing trade chip to headline a package going back to Washington. That would be scenario in which Vaughn might be considered as a pawn, not for one year of Manaea or two years of Montas.
iverbure
That package wouldn’t bring back Murphy let alone Murphy and manaea. Of course A’sfaninUK has no idea about anyones valie either. Perfect trade he says good god lmao.
iverbure
I gotta comment again because I’m still laughing at the Vaughn and burger get you Murphy trade. It’s not even close.
Mystery Team
Murphy has no bat so I’m not sure why you’re putting so much value on him. I wouldn’t trade Vaughn for Murphy or Montas or anyone the A’s currently have on their roster. Montas has had a couple of flashes of decent pitching in his career and a PED pop as well so while he has a couple of years of control it doesn’t really get me excited enough to trade a future all star in Vaughn. All you guys that are overvaluing the catcher position crack me up. There are better defensive catchers in the game than Murphy so when a team like the White Sox or the Yankees show interest in a guy like Murphy all you guys start talking about how they need to give up their best young players for him. What makes him better than any other catcher that can’t hit but has a good glove? Don’t try to tell me he can hit either because he hasn’t done so yet.
muzzachunka
Hey guys Andrew Vaughn hit his 3rd HR with Sox yesterday so that nice young player to build is already turnt loose on the Southside. And Burger at 3rd right now since Moncada got hurt.
Manageable got rocked his 1st start
iverbure
Mystery team instead of pretending like you know what the value of players is just use resources on the internet before you type something so dumb, it gives people a headache.
waltsneck1
The only reason to laugh is thinking that the Sox would even consider trading Andrew Vaughn. That’s not happening for Murphy straightup.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Like the enthusiasm but this post didn’t age well WYM. Michael’s value is not in the bullpen. Repeat. Not in the bullpen. Even with Crochets untimely injury. He’s already been stretched out and is ready to assume his place atop the rotation. The weekend series has already seen the ascension of the next wave of Sox relievers- Crick, Sousa and Banks, with Banks showing some promise as a spot starter. Picking up Frankie would be nice but the Sox seem to be in position to ride out the few weeks it’ll take to get Gio and Lance ready to go. At this point it’s about prepping the rotation for October and the Sox already have at least a top 3 or 4 when everyone’s back.
Ogie Oglethorpe
Dumpster Diving Ricky!
Bob Sacamano 310
Holy overpay Batman
JoeBrady
whosyourmomma
Vaughn is blocked by bunch of current & future OF’s and Abreu & Sheets at 1b.
====================================
Vaughn has been a starter since the start of 2021. By definition, no one is blocking him.
And, after last year, I wouldn’t start Keuchel over Kopech.
And you weren’t getting any prospects for Kimbrel.
whosyourmomma
“Could’ve” is what I started my 2nd sentence with. Obviously I know Collins was dealt for McGuire and I liked what I saw from McGuire yesterday. I love Manaea this year and Murphy would’ve been platoon guy with Grandal and get Grandal some time at DH too, especially if Vaughn was gone. Grandal is not a great defensive catcher anymore & Murphy would be the future starting catcher. Lynn got lit up in playoffs last year so Sox needed another high quality starter in playoffs. IMO Lynn would be a great #4 starter not a #2.
Look I love Vaughn but just last year Sheets would’ve put up better numbers had they both had same amount of AB’s. Vaughn played LF because Eloy was hurt, now he’s kind of a platoon LF, RF, 1B, DH. If everyone is healthy and that prolly will be a big “if” all year you’re starting Eloy, Pollock & Abreu over Vaughn most games. Sox will also prolly keep Abreu for another year or two possibly. Cespedes coming quick to join Eloy & Robert plus Colas eventually too and I like Engel as occasional starter & late game defensive replacement.
Kopech looked real good in his start but obviously with Crochet & Kelly on IL and Kimbrel gone Kopech sure would’ve been great to have in pen. So my comment was about roster construction before season started and with future considerations in mind.
Dogbone
If the Chisox had any faith that Sheets was going to develop into anything, they wouldn’t be trading for all these OFers.
whosyourmomma
“Could’ve” had this for playoffs- Giolito, Cease, Manaea & Lynn with Keuchel, Velasquez, Kopech, Kelly, Bummer & Hendricks in pen. Yes please!
I know they have to make playoffs first but I like to dream or make projections/predictions. Cespedes hopefully starting RF in ‘23 and sign Abreu for 1 more year. Abreu, Eloy, Vaughn and Sheets all platoon in LF, 1B and DH. I like Sheets as regular 1B of the future. Big target, smooth, moves good, prototypical power guy. Vaughn & Eloy split time between DH and LF.
NoNeckWilliams
Except that he’s a first baseman.
Prunella Vulgaris
Houston kills Lynn. I don’t understand why Tony started him.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Eh, think that value for Vaughn went up and up. Unless the As toss in Jefferies or Puk, don’t see him being part of a deal for Frankie.
#1WhiteSoxFan
Vaughn will not be traded. Sorry.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Yay Berkeley Bears! Wish I had gone there
oaklandandpittsburgh
One can only hope in this lost franchise.
BeeVeeTee
Andrew Vaughn is too valuable to the White Sox to trade away for Frankie Montas. Montas is good but not great! I think last year was Montas’ first full season as a starting pitcher so its a wait and see with him. The White Sox have issues right now with the starting rotation with Lynn recovering from knee surgery to Giolito missing his next two starts but giving up Vaughn to the Athletics for Montas would be a dumb move.
Cmurphy
Dumb move, yes, but maybe a necessary one given the situation the Sox are in. Cubs faced that in 2017 and the Sox got Elroy and Cease.
DarkSide830
isnt the lesson here NOT to make that trade given the hindsight we have?
hiflew
Nope. The lesson here is that if you want big league pitching to contend in midseason THAT is the cost. No one is giving away controllable pitching for a fringe minor leaguer or two.
If you don’t want to contend since you have had injuries, just punt the season and trade away your pending free agents now. Of course after what Atlanta did last year once Acuna got hurt., I am not sure how you can sell that type of move to your fan base.
CluHaywood
The Sox are not punting anything. The only serious injury has been to Crochet. Gio and Lynn will both be back this season, and they are stupid deep in spot starters; Reylo, Lambert, Velazquez can all get you through the missed starts with Gio, while if they want an opener, Foster has that experience and Crick and Banks can go multiple innings.
Vaughn is also not a piece you trade. He is going to be an all star, likely a multiple tike all star in his career. Hindsight being what it is, Montas should have never left the Sox organization to begin with.
Dumpster Divin Theo
This
hiflew
I was not implying they were or even that they should. I was just saying to the OP that while making a trade might prove costly, not making a trade could be even more costly.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Hear here. Let’s anoint donopolis the spokesperson for reason much the way one points to Dogbone as the cautionary tale for what happens when your adult life fails to take off.
muzzachunka
Andrew Vaughn hit his 3rd HR with Sox yesterday so that nice young player to build is already turnt loose on the Southside. And Burger at 3rd right now since Moncada hurt
stymeedone
Cubs got a flag. Isn’t that the goal. White Sox have already maxed their budget again. Smart move would be to not resign Abreu and move Vaughn to 1B next year. Or to keep Abreu, and trade Vaughn, as he would only be used as a platoon player on the Southside. Or keep both. Vaughn never reaches his potential because he’s not an OF and won’t play there everyday, and with Abreu’s salary, the White Sox won’t be able to fill their deficiencies. They have room under the CBT you say? But their budget isn’t the CBT! They are maxed now.
CluHaywood
Much appreciated Theo. For both comments.
I will say that when Dogbone isn’t being an obnoxious, Sox-hating troll, he does have some solid points. Sometimes.
Priggs89
Eloy and Cease weren’t big leaguers. Not anywhere near the same situation.
Cmurphy
@Priggs89 – True but that’s why there were two top prospects that were close to hitting the show instead of one ml player.
The point is that due to some teams are forced into the situation where they end up making deals that are horrible to think of. Cubs traded Torres for a one time ring, Sox traded Madrigal to help get them far into the playoffs.
CubsWin108
you cannot compare the cubs trading torres FOR A WORLD SERIES ring, to the Sox trading Madrigal to gets eliminated in the ALDS, I’ll make that 2016 deal everytime, they dont win without Chapman.
Dumpster Divin Theo
How’s Nick the Stick working out for you so far. If he’s the straw that stirs the drink that’s some nasty concoction.
CubsWin108
How did that trade work out for you lol, you guys trade away 5 years of Madigral and Huer for… 2 months of bad Kimbrel, only to get eliminated 1st round, congratulations
CluHaywood
Hindsight on that trade is bad. Had Kimbrel pushed them over the edge and not been a reason they blew it instead, different story entirely.
The flip for Pollock this year could have this trade still being a good one, as long as AJ can stay healthy…lord, that is the Sox motto, I swear.
BeeVeeTee
First of all, we are in the first week of the young season. The loss of Lynn is huge but for some reason the White Sox sort of knew it was coming since his injury was lingering since last season. Unfortunately, Lynn did not have that procedure done during the off season due to the lock out where he couldn’t see the team’s trainers to doctors. The Velasquez signing sort of makes sense now because the White Sox probably knew Lynn was going to miss time.
Giolito’s injury does not seem serious at all. Its a long season where Giolito will miss two starts and recover from this strain. Lets not forget these guys are coming off a short spring training due to the lockout.
Cmurphy
If the injury was lingering from last season, that was a dumb move by the Sox not to address it after the season. The lockout didn’t happen until 12/1 and it was well forecasted.
flamingbagofpoop
Right? People keep throwing things like this out there and blaming the lock out, but forget that it didn’t start right after the season ended.
BeeVeeTee
Lynn missed time last season due to having issues. Yes, it was not a smart by the White Sox not address Lynn’s knee right after the season but everyone knew the lock out was coming. These were some of the talking points on the White Sox podcast!
Dogbone
@bvt, so Giolito’s injury doesn’t appear serious? Neither did Lynn’s.
Buckner
“Giolito’s injury does not seem serious at all. Its a long season where Giolito will miss two starts and recover from this strain. ”
I’ll take the other side of that bet. This isn’t going to go well.
“Doctor” LaRussa said he’ll miss “at least two starts.”
Dumpster Divin Theo
What BeeVee says. Overreaction on multiple fronts. What other top AL contender doesn’t have rotation concerns or early injury woes this early in the season? Setting aside the Rays who continue to amaze with their out of the box approach to quality innings, which other AL rotation scares you in a head to head matchup Jays with Gausman and Ryu looking spotty and Pearson unable to stay healthy? Yankees? Astros- with McCullers out and Greinke gone? Red Sox- with Sale out 2 months and a number of 3s and 4s and patchwork bullpen? Mariners? Perspective. Let the season breathe a little. Let’s see how things are by June- once Lynn is on the mend.
waltsneck1
And neither of those injuries are serious. Both will be back in a matter of weeks. The Sox can mash their way to wins until their back. That team can really hit.
A'sfaninUK
Montas is great, not good. Your analysis is wrong.
BeeVeeTee
Montas’ performance on Friday says something different.
A'sfaninUK
Spoken like someone who didn’t watch the game, just the box score. He got doinked to death by singles from all-star mashers, which is actually a decent performance by him.
But only casuals use 1-game samples…
DogDays2
Montas is great?
You might want to look up the definition .
Dumpster Divin Theo
Only casuals point to a 3 month sample run to make a case for Greatness.
waltsneck1
Must have missed all those MVP and Cy Young votes for the “great” Frankie Montas. Lol.
flamingbagofpoop
Montas is good, not great. Your analysis is wrong.
Dogbone
Hey BVT, just to let you know: the Chisox ‘window of opportunity’ is beginning to close. It’s a shame, isn’t it. But it’s reality. Time to pay up for your thrills – or take your chances.
BeeVeeTee
Dogbone, an abdominal strain is not as serious as knee starinto a forearm or shoulder strain! Again, if you are active or athletic you might understand a strain can last three to five days where rest to not working out to cause a serious injury. Thats why Giolito is on the DL and will miss two starts.
Buckner
This comment by BVT won’t age well. There’s an injury here.
And, for the record, “Doctor” Larussa said he will miss “at least two starts.”
Dumpster Divin Theo
Doggone is only as active or athletic to travel from his maws laundry room to the mini frig and back.
CluHaywood
Trollbone the Sox hater is back again. Just cause the Cubs mismanaged their window and had it prematurely shut several years too early, you tend to believe every FO is that incompetent. I will say that trading away your future for a a pitcher that won’t be enough to get you over the hump is exactly how you slam a window shut, just like the Cubs.
Samuel
“I will say that trading away your future for a a pitcher that won’t be enough to get you over the hump is exactly how you slam a window shut, just like the Cubs.”
donopolis;
Agreed!
And that’s exactly what the Sox did at the trading deadline in 2021.
Dogbone
Do you mean like trading F Tatis for ‘Big game’ James Shields? Lol.
BeeVeeTee
Why do people continue the White Sox trading Fernando Tatis Jr. to the Padres for James Shields as if it ended the world? First of all, Tatis Jr. was only 16 years old at the time and nobody knew of him. Tim Anderson was blocking Tatis at the time to take over the short stop position for the White Sox. At the time of this trade, the Sox were contending and needed a pitcher in the rotation where they only had to pay half of Shields’ remaining salary.
In the meantime, Tatis Jr. seems to be dealing with injuries all of the time while Anderson has injuries but his salary is lower and is on the field more than Tatis. Just saying! The Sox broke even on this trade so far while one can say the Padres’ may be the losers with this trade if Tatis can’t stay healthy to living up to the deal the Padres shouldn’t have given him yet!
Dogbone, you are stupid!
johnrealtime
LMFAO funniest thing I’ve read on this site is that sox broke even on the Tatis for Shields trade. Truly hope you are trolling, for your sake
BeeVeeTee
I am not trolling on the Shields and Tatis trade! I am just providing legitimate facts of the timing if that trade. Not one person knew who the 16 year old Tatis was when the White Sox signed him to on an international signing. Anderson was projected to be the future short stop over Tatis and the White Sox were trying to contend that year where they traded away Tatis for Shields and only had to pay half of his remaining contract. If Tatis can stay on the field then maybe we can say the Padres won that deal but as of right now the White Sox choosing Anderson over Tatis seems like the right move.
CluHaywood
Tatis wasn’t even a top 30 international player the year he signed, and ultimately traded. Preller is on record saying he had no idea how good he would be. No one did. The trade was Shields, a prove pitcher having a bad year for Erik Johnson who was and went on to be, complete garbage. Tatis was a throw away, and he turned out to be the stud of that trade. Hindsight always looks better.
CluHaywood
Ultimately, Kimbrel didn’t get it done, but in a vacuum, Sox traded an injured player and a struggling reliever for literally the best arm at the time. You make that trade for the chance to out you over the top.
Where they failed was find a replacement at 2B. Jose Rodriguez looks like the real deal, but they have shown no interest in moving him from SS.
BeeVeeTee
Donopolus, we might see Yolbert Sanchez play second base before Rodriguez. Yolbert and Robert were teammates in Cuba.
Yoyosoxsox
Yeah we had him years ago but I wouldn’t give Andrew for him. This will look like a terrible trade in a year or two if it happens.
pt57
Pitching is much more valuable than a 1B.
Prunella Vulgaris
Doesn’t that depend on the particular pitcher and first baseman?
junior25
It does
And in Sox case they are overvaluing a guy who hit under .250 with 15Hrs
As a Cubs fan you can have all the hitting in the World but if you pitching is bad it dont mean a Damn thing
Exact Reason why Cubs barely Won 1 WS when we shouldve won more but money and Prospects were spent/traded the wrong way
Kelly Wunsch N' Munch
Vaughn is still very early into his career. Not everyone tears the cover off the ball when they first reach the big leagues. Even Mickey Mantle was demoted after his first action in the Majors. He seemed to have a fairly good run if I remember correctly…
That’s not to say that Vaughn will be anything close to Mantle. He may very well turn out to be a bust. His pedigree up to this point says otherwise. But it’s too early to say that with any certainty.
muzzachunka
Hey guys Andrew Vaughn hit his 3rd HR with Sox yesterday so that nice young player to build is already turnt loose
Dumpster Divin Theo
Good pt Kelly Munch. Other guys who started their careers in chronic slumps a la Mantle: Mays, Sandberg, Ventura. Vaughn was useful right out of the gate, forced to learn a new position on the fly after missing an entire year of organized ball due to the Covid year. Would normally have been in AAA most of the year, say if your name rhymed with This Giant and your employer Neo Shlepspleen. Much like another Neo, he is just now discovering his true powers in determining if he is indeed, the one.
ChicagowhiteBalls
Cubs pitching was really bad though and had old Lester who was on a decline. White Sox have 3 very young starting pitchers in Giolito, Cease and Kopech who have the stuff to be legitimate Aces. Not to mention Lance Lynn who is like Lester for the cubs. It’s not same Sox pitching is way better then the cubs
CluHaywood
Even more relevent and relatable: Joe Crede. Crede had a very similar start to his career, and it continued for a while until 2005 when he busted out in a big way. I don’t think we will see Vaughn hitting below 260 much in his career. His exit velo, angle, hard hit % all indicate he is gonna be a 280 hitter at worst when he starts getting the measure of these pitchers, specifically Right handers.
waltsneck1
Except Vaughn has repeatedly shown he can play LF, RF, 3B, 2B, IB and DH. And he’s going to be an elite hitter.
Montas is ok. But certainly not good enough to command someone like Vaughn in return. That’s not happening.
Col_chestbridge
According to Baseball Trade Values, Vaughn is slightly less valuable than Montas. 35.3-39.6, meaning it’s close, but the White Sox would likely have to throw in someone else (nothing major, Andrew Dalquist would about cover that gap). If the A’s are willing to take just Vaughn they should consider themselves lucky.
If the White Sox have plans for Vaughn, the only way I can see them building that kind of value without including major league players is by making a 4 man package. But it’s likely the A’s wouldn’t want that at this point. They have already taken in a bunch of prospects in other trades and they will already struggle to get ABs and innings for all of them. They need high quality over quantity/lottery tickets.
waltsneck1
It’s not close at all. Nobody in baseball would ever trade Andrew Vaughn for a mediocre pitcher with a history of PEDS.
seamaholic 2
Do it, White Sox. Don’t make the mistake of imagining that your window of competitiveness is gonna last longer than it is. That division is coming, and the whole league is tough. Guys are gonna start costing real money real soon, and injuries pop up (like they already have this year). And you have no farm to speak of. This is your window, this year and next, and Montas is just what you need. Vaughn is a great prospect but you’re set pretty much everywhere anyway. Do it.
FrankEttingChiSox
People going to cost real money soon is exactly why they have to keep him. He’s auditioning for Abreu’s job right now. Sox will be very happy to save $15-20m by plugging Vaughn at first in 2023 and that cash will allow them to retain Giolito or go get another pitcher.
seamaholic 2
Eh, there are good hitting first basemen everywhere, and they aren’t expensive. They can replace Abreu’s production (if not his impact on the clubhouse) with any number of guys. But my point is, the White Sox are not in a position to be planning for the future. All in, now. If you don’t have the resources of the Dodgers or Yankees, that’s the only way to pull of a chip unless you get crazy lucky like last year’s Braves.
Dumpster Divin Theo
But Vaughn is helping out now. Not the case of a highly touted prospect being at AA, but soneone who was not only drafted #3, but has already developed on the fly. Why there’s little shot of him being in a deal for Montas. The Sox have had a succession of all-star/MVP candidates at 1b: the Big Hurt, Paulie, Jose. Andrew’s the next in line- even earning the highest of praise from the Big Hurt himself.
BlooBengal
As a Tiger fan, I hope the White Sox make this trade.
CluHaywood
That tells you all you need to know right there
The Baseball Fan
Because Vaughn torched you guys this weekend?
hyraxwithaflamethrower
@The Baseball Fan, I wouldn’t think that has much to do with it. Every guy who’s up for more than a cup of coffee has a series where he looks like a surefire HOFer. Likewise, even Trout has probably had multiple series where he’s gotten on base once and it was a walk or dribbler that found a hole. One series means nothing.
The reason for Tigers fans to want Vaughn traded is that he can win multiple Silver Sluggers at 1B. He has the potential to be a generational hitter, while Montas is around for only 2 years and is good, but not an ace. Trading Vaughn for Montas would be a gift to the rest of the AL Central.
BlooBengal
@hyrax, thanks for spelling it out for me. I wasn’t about to write all of that out, but you’ve read my mind.
Dumpster Divin Theo
As a Tiger fan worry about what happens when the novelty wears out and Javy realizes he’s stuck in Detroit for the next 6 years.
muzzachunka
Of course you do. He hammered yall this series
TLB2001
I still say the Royals should do Vinnie Pasquantino and a couple of the starters not named Bubic, Lynch, Kowar or Lacy (I’m at the point where I think we should shop Singer, my confidence in him reaching his ceiling is very low).
msqboxer
A’s can ask all they want..but a starter that has pitched over 100 innings once in his career, isn’t getting you Vaughn or any other top of the organization product.
ARC 2
The other 2 starters A’s traded both pitched shut outs in the first starts and 1 was a 7 inning no hitter. You are not getting a quality starter for free or some part time back ups. If White sox don’t trade a player with value Montas will go to another club that is willing to give up a good player.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Wow, they had one good game and are therefore worth the best another org has to offer? Cards should have cashed in after Tatis hit two grand slams in an inning. They could’ve gotten Pedro Martinez!
Dumpster Divin Theo
If Man was the man, why didn’t the As end up with Paddack then? Twinkies got him for a serviceable closer who might just set up for the Friars. Looks like the As got 2 meh guys. I’ll hang up and listen.
CluHaywood
I enjoyed the fact that the Twins blew a 9th inning lead the day they traded their closer. They must have forgotten all about the early part of last year with Colome
thejd44
You’re acting like his lack of innings is because of injuries or something.
In 2018, he pitched 130+ innings between AAA and the Majors.
In 2019, he was a Cy Young candidate when he was suspended.
And nobody in the AL had more than 100 innings in 2020.
Montas has a 3-win and 4-win season under his belt already. It’s unlikely Vaughn ever comes anywhere close to that.
A'sfaninUK
Exactly, its so lame every time a story like this is posted, the prospects team always ALWAYS massively overvalues them. Frankie Montas is a true #1 or at worst a #2 on a contender. He absolutely is worth Andrew Vaughn on a 1-1 trade.
ARC 2
White sox fans over value Vaughn because he is a one talent player in he is only known for his hitting. He can’t play defense so 1B is probably his position. He was very one sided last year in being below average against right handed pitching. I am not sure why the A’s want him so badly because I see him as another Darin Ruf without the OBA.
Shrutefarm
**2019 gets an asterisk.
2021 does not get an asterisk yet because he learned how to use the masking agent.
Andrew Vaughn very well could become the next Paul Konerko
A'sfaninUK
“Andrew Vaughn very well could become the next Paul Konerko”
What a pointless comment. Don’t bother posting useless takes like this.
The White Sox could very well win the title if they swapped Vaughn for Montas.
See, we all can do it. It’s useless.
Prunella Vulgaris
I also see Vaughn as the next Konerko.
Shrutefarm
Prunella, sometimes the best trades are the ones that are not made.
Dumpster Divin Theo
What’s pointless is simply throwing someone else’s comments into quotes and then following up with a declaratory dismissive “what a pointless comment don’t bother posting useless takes like this”. See, we can all do it. It’s useless.
Dumpster Divin Theo
The jd: “Cy Young candidate when suspended”. Why the passive tense? Eh, the suspension didn’t just happen to him. Fall on him like an Acme anvil taking out Wiley Coyote. It’s the very essence of his being the Cy Young candidate in the first place. Ooh and let’s count all those 2018 innings in AAA, and throw out a whole year due to Covid. Way to construct a case.
muzzachunka
Hey guys Andrew Vaughn hit his 3rd HR with Sox yesterday so that nice young player to build is already turnt loose on the Southside. And Burger at 3rd right now since Moncada down
seamaholic 2
Vaughn is a first baseman with a below league average line for his first 400 PA’s in the majors, and an 833 OPS for the minors. That’s not a guy you cling to. His position makes him replaceable, and he’s not actually that good, at least so far.
CluHaywood
Who are you trying to neg here? Rick Hahn doesn’t read this. Lol all the A’s fans trashing Vaughn but at the same time saying Vaughn for Montas is fair value. So which is it?
CubsWin108
this, totally breaksdowns this comment thread
White sox fans: this trade sucks
A’s fans: Vaughn sucks, but trade him for Montas anyways. 😉
Dumpster Divin Theo
Well to be fair, the As fans have only the opportunity to watch the likes of Seth Brown, Chad Pinter, Vogt and Piscotty chase major league ABs so not much else to do then run and around in circles with this thread. At least Daulton Jefferies showed some promise. Only 3 years before you can shop him for some more schtuff.
sss847
pretty sure every team is interested in andrew vaughn lol
if the sox ship him out, i would hope its for something better than Frankie Montas.
CluHaywood
That is it. That is exactly what Sox fans are saying. It’s not that Montas is bad. Vaughn’s ceiling is higher than what you will get from the 1+ years of Montas.
thejd44
Montas has to be worth more than a guy who likely will never have more than a league-average season.
Vaughn as the second or third piece in a deal is fine, but a guy who can’t play defense and probably can’t hit righties is a horrible centerpiece in a deal for a pitcher as good as Montas.
Oddvark
hahahaha
A'sfaninUK
Finally some common sense in this thread lol
Nah Montas-Vaughn straight up is a fantastic deal for both sides. Chicago’s rotation has always been their weakest point.
Montas makes Chicago the team to beat in the AL, Vaughn does not.
flamingbagofpoop
Team to beat in the AL? Did you forget that Hou and most of the ALE exist?
Steinbrenner2728
dont question him, flamingbagofpoop, according to one of A’sFanInUK replies, he gets “paid” to KNOW baseball… or else you get MUTED!!!!
flamingbagofpoop
Got it, so he’s a snowflake. Shocked.
Mrsuntan
Stick to futball uk. RAYS, ASTROS AND maybe JAYS are better.
waltsneck1
Lol. You’re an A’s fan, correct? Nobody in baseball would ever trade Vaughn for Montas. That’s ridiculous and not happening on planet Earth.
CluHaywood
You say you are paid to know baseball, but you clearly didn’t know that the Sox rotation was the best in all of baseball last year. “Weakest point.” The only thing the Sox ever draft and develop correctly is starting pitching. In fact, how do you think Oakland came by Montas?
CluHaywood
Montas IS worth more than a guy who doesn’t hit more than league average and can’t play defense. Unfortunately, the player you described isn’t Andrew Vaughn.
The Brokenheart Kid
Would love Montas on the Sox but not for Vaughn. That price is too high. Just as Hahn should have told the Cubs to flake off last July when Madrigal was listed as the price for Kimbrel, that’s exactly what Hahn should tell the A’s if they insist on Vaughn for Montas.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Except Nicky Madrigals ceiling is likely Mike Caruso.
SupremeZeus
Andrew Vaughn’s floor is Eric Karros. You don’t trade that for 2 years of a player that isn’t a difference maker in Montas. There are only a handful of #1 starters that you include Vaughn in a deal for and those pitchers won’t be moved. The White Sox need to have a pipeline of cheap controllable core players so their roster isn’t back to the stars and scrubs model that their payroll limitations dictate w/o cost controlled young contributors.
A'sfaninUK
Uhhhh YES you absolutely trade the floor of an Eric Karros for a front line starter in a contending year – have you never followed MLB before?? Teams make this exact trade over and over and will continue to do so.
Vaughn is a DH/1B, he’s a LIMITED PLAYER. Stop acting like he’s the key to the WHite Sox’s future when Abreu is going to keep hitting 30+ bombs the next 5 years.
flamingbagofpoop
You think he’s going to hit 30+ hrs until he’s 40? Get off the internet and get back to your homework.
A'sfaninUK
If only you knew how silly your disrespectful comment is, you would be so embarrassed right now. I literally get paid to know baseball, you do not, homerism is mental illness. Have fun in mute-land, fool!
Ma4170
You should look for a new line of work
flamingbagofpoop
I’m a cubs fan, so not sure where you get homer from. Talk about embarrassed by your own comments. I would imagine that you are quite familiar with mental illness, but you need to stop projecting.
jim stem
Counting on Velasquez as the #4 is NOT a good sign. He’s always had electric stuff but grooves too many fastballs. He’s also never seemed to figure out how to put guys away when he gets ahead in the count.
I always felt he could be much more effective as a once through the lineup guy (opener) or reliever, maybe even eventually becoming a closer.
48-team MLB
*SACRAMENTO SQUIRRELS
denny816
If Montgomery is actually expected to stick at SS, where he will be blocked by TA, send him to the A’s for Montas.
stevep-4
Vaughn is good but I do not share the prevailing wisdom that he is untouchable. They are well stocked with power and 1B candidates for the post Abreu era.
However, I would hope they get more for him. If they make another future-draining trade for short term pitching, I will begin to doubt their sanity.
seamaholic 2
Montas is really, really good. Two years of a healthy, strong starter for a championship-contending, pitching needy team is incredibly valuable. If the A’s are really willing to give him up just for Andrew Vaughn, you take that every day and run to the bank. People on this site are way too prospect-happy, and Vaughn’s just a good one, not a great one.
Prunella Vulgaris
How do you know Montas is going to stay healthy?
stymeedone
How do you know Vaughn is going to stay healthy?
waltsneck1
Montas has a history of PEDS and isn’t really, really good enough to get Andrew Vaughn. This is such a ridiculous trade proposal.
A'sfaninUK
It’s 2 seasons – or whatever is left of this one, plus next year – when White Sox will be #1 contenders. Its the most logical trade for them to make right now.
Montas-Vaughn is a perfect 1-1 deal. A legit ACE in his prime for a DH/1B who can hit. There hasn’t been a more fair 1-1 deal proposed on this site in years.
delete my account please
The Whitesox minor league system is generally regarded as the worst in all of baseball. If not Vaughn then what are they willing to give up? The price the Padres paid for Manaea was relatively cheap, If the Whitesox couldn’t top that then there is little chance they can get Montas – at least not without giving up Vaughn.
BeeVeeTee
As if right now the White Sox’s farm system is one of the worse in baseball, but there are some good young players who were drafted or international signings that may change that in the next few months. Some of the young players drafted in the last two years will get some playing time in A and AA to showcase their talents.
seamaholic 2
Montas is worth much more than Manaea. Extra year of control.
gr8testsoxfan
Sheets and another prospect maybe, but no way we trade Vaughn
A'sfaninUK
Vaughn is a DH/1B and Abreu isn’t slowing down anytime soon.
Dogbone
Sheet, r u crazy?
phillyballers
Do you want Alec Bohm?
GarryHarris
Frankie Montas is too young for the ChiSox. They’re only interest in past their prime type players.
ChicagowhiteBalls
Too young you sound dumb. Giolito, Cease, Kopech are all more talented and will be true Aces for the White Sox. Also much younger then Montas who was never even a top 20 prospect like the guys I just mentioned above. Montas is not a true Ace and his stuff is not that great. Montas at best is a good number 2 or 3 starter
twtw28
Lol montas was already on the Sox dummy
sckoul
Vaughn can get back a better arm if trading him is what we want to do but honestly we aren’t in some title window until we show we can win a postseason series. Keep Vaughn and continue to add. Don’t trade any more of our core guys until we show post season success.
bitteroldman
I’d argue that Vaughn is not a core guy. Gavin Sheets isn’t either but I’d keep him over Vaugh because you’re going to get roughly the same numbers and Sheets is a left handed power bat in a lineup that’s tilted heavily to the right side.
sckoul
A core guy is anyone we spent a first round pick on that has proven to have talent. The exact reason some Sox fans were upset at mandrigal trade. Why trade from a core you have put together when you haven’t proven to be a winning team in playoffs yet? So Vaughn is a core player for us and is in our future. We can keep sheets and Vaughn. Abreu is 35 years old so the first base position is opening up sooner rather than later. The point is we don’t need to trade either player. Also I disagree sheets and Vaughn will give you same stats. That’s just not true at all.
seamaholic 2
Who cares when he was drafted?
sckoul
Most white Sox fans.
Wheeler Dealer
As a Cub fan would love for Sox to trade Vaughn for Montas and get smoked out of a great prospect DO IT!
Tacoshells
Yea cuz your team traded all yours hahaha
metsie1
The sell off in Oakland is a joke and absolutely bad for baseball. The A’s will soon be “drawing” crowds in the hundreds. MLB and A’s ownership will claim that they just don’t have local “support” and build their momentum to move somewhere, probably Las Vegas. They want the taxpayers to pay for a new Stadium, one they should have built years ago. A 30 or 35 thousand seat ballpark similar to what the Giants have would be ideal. Not gonna happen because they want taxpayers to foot the bill.
A'sfaninUK
It’s not “they”, it’s John Fisher. He has a name, use it. John Fisher is ruining MLB by how he chooses to deliberately not spend money on the team he owns.
BeeVeeTee
Or he wants to move the team out of Oakland to Las Vegas!
passed_balls
Yes. They got the idea from the plot of Major League. Next they’ll sign Rick Vaughn when they trade off Montas.
bitteroldman
Vaughn is expendable, they have Gavin Sheets who has put up similar power numbers and is a left handed bat. I’m no expert but from what I’ve seen of Vaugh the production doesn’t merit the hype he receives, which is based upon where he was drafted.
A'sfaninUK
Exactly, Vaughn might be DH-only type tbh. He’s not THAT valuable and is exactly the type of guy who brings in a true frontline ACE like Frankie Montas. He’s a much better fit on the A’s than the White Sox, who have Abreu who isn’t slowing down anytime soon. Sheets might be as good as Vaughn and Burger might be too.
stymeedone
Vaughn should become a solid 1B. He may even become great. The White Sox, however, are treating him as a platoon DH. He’s playing now due to injury, not because its the plan. The plan is Eloy, Roberts and Pollock in the OF and Abreu’s at 1B with Vaughn and Sheets sharing DH. They chose to add Pollack, essentially blocking his playing time as a regular OF. If they continue to limit his at bats, his value will diminish as his service time and pay increase. His max value will never increase “off the bench.” Play him or trade him!
Play the Game
Vaughn will not be moved. Abreu is going to come back for one or two years. Sox major blunder was no QO for Rodon that move could cost them the division! Also sign Baez put him at 2B yes he makes mistakes but he’s a bottle of lightning and really lengthens the line up.
A'sfaninUK
When Abreu starts falling off, Vaughn will be 30 years old.
Win a title this year instead of keeping Vaughn.
ARC 2
Since you are a whitesox fan I must ask what is so great about Vaughn? Last year he could only hit left handed pitching. Doesn’t play good defense. has not played very much past A ball. Is it just because of the power numbers?
Play the Game
He’s Raw and young. Your correct not many minor ABs they believe he’s going to be a great hitter we will see, I’m fine keeping him. Again could of QO Rodon and keep Vaughn but a Sox do Stupid moves. Like getting a Closer last year when you have the best one in baseball!
stymeedone
Where was the 18MM for the QO coming from if they had offered to Rodon? That means no Graveman and no Kelly. Probably means they don’t trade Kimbrel, so no Pollock. They may not even sign Harrison. Gotta work with the Budget the team has. Can’t just increase it $18MM and leave every thing as is.
A'sfaninUK
Vaughn has the ceiling of a MLB mid order hitter, but as a DH only. Being that Abreu refuses to play DH, and the White Sox need pitching, this move puts them into prime positioning to win the World Series the next 2 years. He loses value by being bad defensively.
waltsneck1
He was the third overall pick, led the nation in HRs, was the Golden Spikes award winner, has shown the ability to play multiple positions, spent two months in A ball before going straight to MLB on a playoff team.
He’s only scratching the surface of what he’ll become as a hitter. Hope that helps.
dazedatnoon
keep Vaughn
jessaumodesto
This wouldn’t be the typical return for the A’s, he’s to good of a prospect for them.
They typically want the 20th best prospect from a team and a 28 year old AA pitcher who didn’t crack the top 30 prospect list.
ARC 2
Vaughn reminds me of Chris Carter part 2. Guy who can hit 1 sided but plays no defense. More I look at Vaughns stats I want the A’s to get more than Chris Carter part 2. for Montas.
waltsneck1
You’d be wrong.
mlb1225
There seems to be an overwhelming amount of people who are either undevaluing Vaughn or seemingly outright do not like him for some reason. He was picked 3rd overall in the draft and did well in the minor leagues. He didn’t do great in his first look in the Majors last season, but he also had only 245 plate appearances to his name, as a professional baseball player, before getting that promotion. Btw, none of those plate appearances came above Advanced-A. He skipped two levels before making his MLB debut. Instant results are not going to happen with every single top prospect, especially ones who skip multiple minor league levels, and even more so when you consider Vaughn missed a full season of playing time because there was no minor league season in 2020. Juan Soto is the exception, not the rule.
ARC 2
Its more of home team fans over value their players and prospects. Vaughn is not a sure thing since he hasn’t played much in the minors and struggled first year in his rookie season. A lot of questions on where he plays. 1B/DH is not as valuable as a player who can play defense. Starting pitching is the most covet position in baseball . A’s bigger need is young starting pitcher which they have lacked in the minors before these trades.
seamaholic 2
More that White Sox fans are overvaluing Vaughn, which is totally normal and every fanbase does the same for their equivalent prospects (and every team has one or two).
ARC 2
If you been following baseball for years you would understand prospects in the last few years have been over valued by many clubs. Fans believe the hype by these sport writers. I don’t value A ball players since many of them flop after getting past AA and are just AAAA players on the cab ride to MLB and then back to the minors.
A'sfaninUK
He’s a DH-only. He’s going to a fine hitter. That ceiling has limited value though.
waltsneck1
No he’s not. He’s a good all around baseball player and has played multiple positions without looking out of place in any of them.
ChicagowhiteBalls
Wow look at all the Salty fans in here lol Yes the White Sox have a very good team. I’m sure your jealous of their young talent. Their window competing for championships is longer then any team in baseball. Sounds like people here need to do their homework on the White Sox roster. A core of Robert, Jimenez, Moncada, Anderson that is locked up for the next 4 plus years. Hard to find a better core in baseball and the people here that don’t understand the Value of Vaughn should do their homework. Giolito, Cease, and Kopech are all younger, more valuable and better then Montas. Those are true Aces. They have no reason to feel rushed with winning it this year. A lot of you guys are gonna be watching Vaughn hit bombs with a .300 average for the next decade on the Whitesox. He’s not going anywhere unless you got a True Ace coming back like Chris Sale. Montas is at best a good number 2 or 3 starter. So keep dreaming on Vaughn. Sox will gladly pass and wait for free agency next year or the year after when their young talent is hitting their full potential. You guys must not realize how young and controlled the talent on the Whitesox roster is. It’s gonna be around the next 4 to 5 years so get use to it
Mrsuntan
Oh please in the al east they would be 3rd at best behind Rays and Jays. Window is open because of crap division
Cap & Crunch
Best post in entire thread Chiwhiteballs
CWS should feel minimal amount of pressure this year…..their sails far outreach 90+% of MLB right now
I’m not a minor league scout so I cant speak to Vaughn but there should be No pressure right now to make a deal .
Take the next 2 months and evaluate everything internally and externally….If Montas goes by then just jump on the next train leaving outta town. Time is def on CWS side right now, I’m really not as thrilled with the other AL Central teams as some others are this year, think the Div is wrapped up early Sept
ChicagowhiteBalls
Thanks cap & crunch. I don’t miss anything on the White Sox and haven’t since before this rebuild started. So I know the contracts they have and how young the team is. I don’t understand the talk about the white Sox window closing. Like people really think Robert,Jimenez, Moncada, Vaughn, Giolito, Cease, and Kopech are at their full potential lol these guys will be even better next year. It’s like most people in here have no idea of the contracts the Whitesox gave Anderson, Robert, Jimenez and Moncada. They have no rush to win it this year. But they could win it with the team they have if everyone stays healthy. They even have some great looking young prospects who can make this team even better in a year or two or be trade chips. White Sox fans have no reason to worry about winning it this year. Just enjoy watching these guys continue to develop. If they keep the team together they will be in the playoffs for at least the next 4 years. I never wanted the white Sox to trade Madrigal because he was a great looking young piece to the core. They shouldn’t rush
Cap & Crunch
I would estimate less than a quarter of the people here have ever clicked on Spotrac or Cot’s so don’t take it personal as a CWS fan
Seems silly, but it’s where we are at today, emotion>reality and everything’s a hot take
I appreciate the structure in which the CWS took in assembling this team , it’s unique no doubt
Wish it would catch on a little more in the MLB and you’d start seeing the teams stay together longer like the old days
It’s kind of old school but it’s new school in a way too going heavy handed on the early ext’s when everybody else just manipulates arb’s
dman07
I think the asking price for Montas is fair. Vaughn is a nice piece. Got to give something to land a SP like Montas. Major threats stay in tact for the White Sox. A’s get a player they can use everyday.
A'sfaninUK
Didn’t Beane go after Semien a couple times before landing him? For whatever reason, the A’s love the local guys who go too high in the draft for them, or aren’t in their draft range, and then obsess over them in trades. Vaughn = Semien in this instance.
Montas+Trivino for Vaughn+Kade McClure+Cristian Mena is perfect, stop lying to yourselves. Get it done, A’s+White Sox.
nrd1138
While Im not sold on Vaughn, it would be so White Sox to trade a 1rd pick for a guy they traded years ago. If Hahn does this, he needs his head examined, as Montas is not anywhere near an ace, so why trade a guy who everyone seems to agree has a huge ceiling in this game still?
In any case with the rash of these soft tissue injuries, one again has to wonder where the Sox conditioning staff is?
I mean some of these are likely injuries you cannot predict, but I mean Hamstring issues? Oblique issues (especially on a guy like Moncada who is known to be a walking injury at this point)? That should not be happening on a club whose goal is to ‘win it all’ .
ChicagowhiteBalls
What is funny is that most people here either don’t know or don’t remember that 3 years ago most MLB analysts didn’t expect the White Sox to be competitive until 2022 with their young talent. Their window competing for championships has just begun and it’s not closing any time soon.
patricktroen
Its like sox fans are treating vaughn like todd helton with his draft pedigree. Olson was drafted much lower in first round.
Developing and finding someone like olson you may end up drafting a few 1b however if white sox ignore the glove maybe the farm already has answer. Colas maybe? But still a few years away and white sox could find a 1b in draft. But collins was another high draft pedigree. Its like the white sox went allin without fully assessing their players.
Well sox are allin do what you have todo if u need the starter. Btw developing a starter is much more difficult.
ChicagowhiteBalls
Andrew Vaughn was the 3rd overall pick in the draft. He could of arguably gone 1st overall if he wasn’t a 1st baseman. Zack Collins was the 10 overall pick that’s not the same as a top 3 pick. Vaughn was a top 30 prospect in MLB. Zack Collins was not a top prospect in MLB. Vaughn was a rookie last year playing a new position defensively and hit pretty well for a 23 year old prospect. 235/.309/.396 with 15 home runs, 48 RBI. Zack Collins, 27, batted .210/.330/.338 with 4 home runs, 26 RBI. Do your homework before you start throwing around comps
Yoyosoxsox
Andrew is a good player who picked up several positions on the fly last year who’s bat is only gonna get better once he gets more at bats and maybe a stable position for more than a few days. I would trade yoquli if u had to.
sfu13
As a Sox fan I get that our farm is barren and Montas would likely cost Vaughn+ (and plenty of teams can beat that easily as well). At this point the Sox should just keep Vaughn, I think he will be a special player and our next great 1B after Abreu. If our owner wasn’t averse to giving out multi-year contracts, we could have gone after and signed Robbie Ray instead or kept Rodon. Secondly, the Sox could also have kept Montas themselves considering we had him. *shrugs shoulders*
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Really hoping the Sox aren’t dumb enough to do this trade.
waltsneck1
Guaranteed they’re not trading Andrew Vaughn for Montas.
mrmackey
Makes a ton of sense for the As, he’d be a nice Olson replacement.
And Montas is a win-now pitcher who is controlled for 2 years. It feels like he’d be a tad bit overpriced but it’s not an outrageous ask or place to start negotiating from IMO.
nrd1138
Tad overpriced? Try insanely over estimated value.. The guy is only an ‘Ace’ because all of the good pitchers have already been moved. Montas is a 3rd rotation guy at best and the Sox already have plenty of those (or better). Asking for Vaughn is shooting for the moon, but whats sillier is that some Oakland fans think its actually a good trade for both teams.. Its not. The Sox would be nuts to trade Vaughn for Montas.(Never mind if the Sox thought he was that good they likely would not have traded him a few years ago for Todd Frazier)
mrmackey
So in his last 2 full seasons, he’s posted a 164 ERA+ and a 121 ERA+ and averaged 10+ Ks/9.
He’s coming off of a 2021 that saw him finish 6th in the Cy Young voting. And he’s a “3rd rotation guy at best”?
Mmmmmkay.
nrd1138
Ahh, the old grab any stat you can to be make him look good… Yeah, Ok. Well… did he win a Cy Young? Who cares where he finishes unless he is #1.. Also did you forget one of those seasons you mention that he was busted with a PED suspension in 2019 as well (which will cause many of his stats to be viewed with suspicion)? He is not an Ace, pure and simple. Keuchel and Giolito finished in Cy Young voting a couple of years ago in 4th and 7th.. you know what that really means? Nothing… Cy Young can be had by any pitcher who has ‘a’ good season, but does nothing to speak about consistently good (like an Ace is to be called an ‘Ace’). Is Montas an above average pitcher? Maybe on certain days, but the Sox already have guys like that, and giving up a former 1st rd pick for is laughable. Is he dogcrap? Now, but he’s no Ace either.
Iago407
Two years of Montas is not enough for Vaughn. Maybe add in Trivino’s 1 year deal along with a prospect like Gelof or Pache for Vaughn and a lesser prospect or two.
waltsneck1
I bet the A’s are interested in Andrew Vaughn. I’d like to date a super model.
ChicagowhiteBalls
Well after the game he had today don’t expect the White Sox to trade Andrew Vaughn. A walk, 2 hits, Home run and 4 RBI ohh and he’s leading the team in home runs. Anyone doubting Andrew Vaughn and his value their is a reason you’re not a scout.
knuck2
He’s leading the league in RBIs
Franco22
4 RBI day for Vaughn today 4/11, Montas not sharp in opener, 5 ER. If Vaughn solves Sox DH issue he is not going anywhere. I like the left side with Sheets as well. Engel, Mendick, and/or a pitcher Lopez could do it for A’s.
CluHaywood
Torkleson and Vaughn had very similar collegiate stats, similar career paths thus far. But where as Tork is treated like the 2nd coming of Gehrig, Vaughn is barely worth trading for. Time will tell on Vaughn, but he projects to be a future star.
ChicagowhiteBalls
Yeah 5 Earned runs in 5 innings is not an ACE. So maybe you guys should start being more realistic for Montas maybe start with Gavin Sheets or Jake Burger. The A’s might actually win the trade if you take Gavin Sheets
Franco22
Always keep the lefty bats, we are way too much right side dominant with the bats.
ChicagowhiteBalls
Vaughns bat is more valuable then Sheets regardless if sheets is a Lefty. What does it matter if the White Sox have too many right handed bats? Their right handed hitters are so good they can hit both left and right handed pitching. I’m pretty sure the White Sox had a top 2 offense in baseball last year without Robert and Jimenez most of the season.
Franco22
When you have too many right handed hitters pitchers get in a groove and can control the game by spotting their pitches. A few lefties or switch hitters takes them. out of their groove. I didn’t say get rid of Vaughn I said keep as many lefties as you can to make the other manager think about your lineup. Right handed dominant. Teams are easy to manage against you keep throwing right handed pitchers at them. Ever hear of platooning or infield shifts, geez where have you been !
ChicagowhiteBalls
Well if you see the talented right handed hitters on the White Sox their hasn’t been a team that’s really gotten in a groove against their heavy right handed bats because they are talented enough to hit regardless. Most teams yeah they need that but obviously the White Sox have a team loaded with future stars that can hit both right handed and left handed pitching
Franco22
Then why did they lose to the Astros.
They couldn’t hit their pitching.
Franco22
Sox lost twice to Astros McCullers. 10-1, and 6-1 . They only have two lefty pitchers on their roster this year.
ChicagowhiteBalls
If you think that their young hitters have hit their full potential then you are about to find out that they haven’t. Robert, Jimenez, and Vaughn will be a lot better hitters this year as they get more at bats. Anderson and Moncada could even have their best years. So their offense will be a different machine the next time they play the Astros. Even the Veterans Abreu, Grandal, Pollock, Harrison could make a difference this year. Astros went to the World Series last year. They were playing a very good veteran team. But the White Sox will be better this year
nrd1138
..and still do not give up on Sheets either, he has shown he can hit in the Bigs.. Now, platoon or not its a question still. It depends if the Sox will give him that chance to prove it. against lefties, but even then he has had some big hits vs lefties as well.
Play the Game
After todays game the point is Moot! Vaughn is staying.
tcav1222
An Andrew Vaughn for Montas trade would literally get me to stop watching Sox baseball, would be an awful move. It would be like the Madrigal trade all over again. You trade those guys for a true #1 pitcher not a BP arm or a guy that’s a #2-3 pitcher for only 2 years.. Vaughn is forsure going to be a main piece for the Sox years to come, he has an elite bat. Abreu will be gone sooner rather then later. Why make a trade just to create another hole? Makes no sense.
fisher40
The WhiteSox would be absulute morons if they traded Vaughn
Franco22
They were last year with the Kimbrel-Madrigal deal expect the expected with Hahn at the helm !
jhomeslice
Madrigal didn’t exactly light it up this weekend with the Cubs. At the end of the day he will wind up a light hitting 2b with a decent average, few walks, average defense, and no power. Nothing special.
Franco22
Didn’t he hit his first homer in MLB this past Friday in the power alley.
Franco22
Sorry, correction Hoerner hit a homer.
Madrigal had just 7 at bats, he will get there.
waltsneck1
Madrigal has some glaring weaknesses. He’s a really small guy who gets hurt a lot, below average defensively and has no power.
knuck2
Anyone who says Burger or Sheets are comparable to Vaughn just hasn’t watched these guys regularly. And saying Vaughn is a defensive liability at 1B is ridiculous because he just hasn’t played there much to tell. Also 2021 was a long season for him. Prior to that he had only played college length seasons and a shortened 2020 as a pro. He’s going nowhere.
Rallyshirt
Correction:
Every team interested in Andrew Vaughn
Iago407
If every team is interested, I wonder if there’s a better deal to be made than two years of Montas. I wouldn’t mind seeing the Sox add him, but for several years of Vaughn? No way.
nrd1138
If you are aiming for Montas, you are aiming low.
Kelly Wunsch N' Munch
Please don’t even think about trading Vaughn for Montas. Sure Montas would be very helpful, and really fill a major need. Vaughn should definitely not be moved unless a team stupidly overpaid for him. I don’t think that it’s an unfair deal or anything. The Athletics are giving up a great asset. I’d prefer it if the White Sox could find different prospects. Just not too sure the Athletics would be interested without Vaughn’s inclusion. A combination of Sheets, Burger, Stiever, Cespedes, Montgomery or whatever but just not Vaughn. I like those prospects too, but you have to give something to get something.
muzzachunka
A’s are looking to lose for a few seasons. Pickup young players in trades, ship them off when it’s payday time. Vicious cycle. A’s fans can never have a favorite player. Look what happened to their 1st base and 3rd base men. Fans can’t ever lock on to a player.
nrd1138
Montas was so ‘great’ the Sox already traded him once for Todd Frazier… Montas is not a great asset as Im guessing he would have been gone before now. He also gets hurt too (I guess Oakland wants the Sox to forget this as well).
If the Sox are in win now mode they need to think much bigger for pitching, especially if Vaughn is the ask…
Megatron2005
Montas isn’t an ace and cant stay healthy.
Kelly Wunsch N' Munch
Agreed that he’s not an Ace by any means. Heck if the White Sox staff is completely healthy, he’s probably their #4.
ChicagowhiteBalls
If Kopech lives up to his potential then Montas is at best the number #5 when Lynn and Giolito are healthy
Kelly Wunsch N' Munch
Sure. If Kopech pitches to his potential he’ll definitely be a top of the rotation type of pitcher. But this season being his first attempt at a full season in the rotation, having never even remotely approached a Major League starter’s workload, plus the brass saying they’ll be monitoring his innings…
Essentially that relegates him to a #5 status so to speak. At least that’s how I look at it. But I can see where you’re coming from too.
ChicagowhiteBalls
Yea I’m just comparing the stuff that they all have. Montas doesn’t really have like those other 4 guys
Franco22
Right now Sox could use. a few #2’s or 3’s.
nrd1138
The Sox could use a bulldog Ace that does not get destroyed by the playoff (and playoff caliber) teams, so far they are still missing this. Montas is definitely NOT that guy either. I think Kopech could be this guy, but with his innings restriction this season who knows how that will really work.
roob
It’s a non-starter. The Sox aren’t dumb enough to trade Vaughn for Montas.
muzzachunka
Andrew Vaughn is going nowhere. He’ll sign a 4-5 year deal probably next season or maybe later this year.
Vaughn going to be a .300+ hitter 25-35 HR a year 100-125 RBI a year. Save this message so we can view at season end
stymeedone
Why would Vaughn sign a long-term contract with a team that considers him a bench player? I’d want the opportunity to play everyday.
ChicagowhiteBalls
I’m pretty sure Vaughn understands that he’s being blocked by Abreu who is one of the best players in baseball but he’s 35 years old while Vaughn is 24. Vaughn is also playing on a championship built team. So I doubt he’s complaining. He knows the White Sox value him enough to be getting his bat in the lineup as much as they can. I’m sure the White Sox plan to move him to 1st base in the next 2 years and he knows that . Abreu will eventually have to slide to DH
waltsneck1
Probably because he knows that the Sox don’t consider him a bench player.
They drafted him third overall and promoted him to the big leagues after only two months of professional baseball experience at single A.
And they had the faith in him to play him at a position he never played in his life during a pennant race.
waltsneck1
Probably because he knows that the Sox don’t consider him a bench player.
nrd1138
He will, The idea that Jimenez or Pollack will stay healthy all season is laughable, plus you still have first base if Abreu gets a day here or there, and DH. Pollack has already shown that he will be lucky to stay healthy for half the season, especially with this ..umm ..’conditioning’.. staff of the White Sox.
Painful itch
The only way a trade like this makes sense for the White Sox is if there is a third team involved. The As have nothing else of value to give to the WSox except Montas and his term isn’t long enough by itself to warrant Vaughn.
ARC 2
So Vaughn hit 2 home runs off a AA pitcher as a mop up guy and a bad reliever. Now all of a sudden he is the next Aaron Judge. Sorry but never fall in love with a player the first month of the season. Things change fast and good pitchers will see holes in a person’s swings. Lets see where vaughn is at the end of may before you start calling him the next great all star.
JoeBrady
So Vaughn hit 2 home runs off a AA pitcher as a mop up guy and a bad reliever.
===================================
Sure, there’s 100 guys like that.
But how many were the overall #3 pick, top-15 prospect, and combined with good minor league stats.
There comes a time when guys start to morph from prospects to pros. The time to move is before they hit .285 with 35 HRs.
mattcoz
The Sox loved Vaughn before the season, how he has hit this early in the season, against RHP no less, which was his only question mark, has only refinforced it.
ChicagowhiteBalls
If you knew anything about Andrew Vaughn you would know hes regarded as having one of the best swings in baseball and not many scouts doubt his hitting tool
waltsneck1
Honestly, it doesn’t make sense to trade Andrew Vaughn. Dude can rake and can adequately play multiple positions. And he’s controlled for five years. You don’t trade guys like that.
free agent
Vaughn for a pitcher is a definite NO
cwsOverhaul
Montas is fool’s gold. Breakout season in ’19 coincided with PED suspension (of course always a good excuse). Astros lit him up in ’20 playoff clincher-WSox don’t need more of that in money time! A’s should be concerned the more starts he gets, the less clubs will see him as a TOR level starter. Let the season develop a bit. Good starters around mlb will be going on IL stints, bullpens overworked, etc for the next month.
WhiteSox4ever
Vaughn has 2 Homer’s, not 3
mattblaze13
Almost like being interested in a hot chick that will never look your way
waltsneck1
Guaranteed the Sox aren’t trading Vaughn for Montas.
msqboxer
If your the A’s why not ask for Vaughn…then work your way down. I’m sure this deal will come up again if Montas pitches like he did last year. The difference will be that the A’s should be looking at Cespedes. Meises and Sanchez who all have controllable MLB time and in some cases will be blocked by the CWS current roster.
Asfan0780
Maybe because white Sox currently is bottom tier farm system and other pieces after Vaughn may not be viewed as enough return. Even though Vaughn himself is flawed or misused by white Sox who use him in platoon situation and moved around defensively despite being a first baseman and blocked by abreu
BostonA'sFan
Obviously, I’m an A’s fan so I’m bias but I think people are way undervaluing Montas. To try to put this in perspective, I’d value Montas higher than Bassitt or Manaea. Bassitt earned two good prospects. When Bassitt is on, he peaks as a number two starter. Manaea is a flat out number three starter in his good and his bad days.
When Montas is on, he’s a top 5 pitcher. His stuff is electric. He can paint corners with 98 mph heat, and get the best hitters to chase sliders away or a splitter in the dirt. He has more variance than you’d like and when he looks bad he throw is FB over the place and his sinker is left up. Thing is though his stuff is good enough that his bad days, he’s still a number 4 starter. I’d value him higher than the other two because his bad days look more teachable and you can’t teach his stuff. Bassitt and Manaea already peaked, Montas hasn’t.
He has a low salary, and he’s team controlled for 2 years. Here’s no reason why the A’s should trade him without value. Particularly because he’s probably going to increase in value as we approach the deadline.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
It’s not really fair to say, when he’s on, he’s a top 5 pitcher. Top 5 compared to the other 4 guys at their normal level? Top 5 compared to all pitchers at their very best? I could see the former, but it’s not a fair argument and I disagree with the latter.
I agree that they should get value for him, but Vaughn is still an overpay. With all the years of control and the expectation that he’ll contend for a Silver Slugger award most years, 5 years of him is worth more than 2 of Montas.
BostonA'sFan
I know nothing about Vaughn. Frankly, I think the white sox are a bad match overall because their farm system is terrible. I have no idea what Vaughn’s value is worth, Baseball Trade Values says Montas is worth more than Vaughn. But I don’t know anything about Vaughn. I’m only informing people who likely have never watched Montas pitch that they are very uninformed.
I watch Montas every 5th day and yes When Montas is on, he’s an Ace comparative to other Aces on their good day. The reason he’s not an Ace isn’t because his good days but because his bad days have been more frequent than your average ace. It’s a very fair argument because it says two thing, number 1, it says his upper limit is higher so when you need the 7 IP and 1 ER, you’re more likely to get it with Frankie. It also implies he has more room to improve.
Not to compare you but this reminds me of 2010. Everyone who looked at box scores thought the Cahill and Brett Anderson were the top pitchers and Gio Gonzalez was a weak. Every one who watches the A’s knew GIO was better. Same situation here. On paper, people love Bassitt and Manaea but the fans who watch the game know Montas is the best one. Again, it’s the reason why he hasn’t been traded yet. You’ll see by mid season what I’m talking about.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
For Vaughn, he’s a former #3 overall pick, never played above A+ in the minors and, like so many prospects, missed a year of development in 2020. His last two years at Cal, he had a 1.350 and 1.243 OPS, respectively, with over twice as many walks as K’s (combining the years). He went from A+ to the majors and, had it not been for hitting a wall like the article mentions, he would have graded as an above-average hitter as a rookie, despite learning several new positions. He has enough power to get 30 HR’s a year, a good enough eye to be among the league leaders in walks, and a good enough hit tool to contend for BA titles. He is slow, too slow for the OF or middle IF, but has the best attitude I’ve ever heard for being shuffled around so much and a work ethic to match. His defense, aside from 1B and maybe 3B, will likely always be below average, but is already improving from last year. He does need to work on his splits, as he crushes lefties, but struggled against righties last year.
TL;DR, Terrific attitude, strong work ethic, very high coachability, below-average running and defense, but the dude just hits. He could develop into the best Sox hitter since Frank Thomas.
David Barista
TWTW
CluHaywood
When I saw him play at Cal, I said he is the best pure hitter I’ve seen since Pujols. Thomas is a very apt comparison. Not sure he ever quite gets those power numbers Thomas had, but high 280-290’s hitter for sure. Sneaky athletic too to be able to play the OF as well as he was able to last year.
nrd1138
“When Montas is on, he’s an Ace comparative to other Aces on their good day. The reason he’s not an Ace isn’t because his good days but because his bad days have been more frequent than your average ace” .Umm then isn’t that definition of NOT being an Ace?! (never mind the PED suspension)
stymeedone
@hyrax
Part time players don’t win silver sluggers. Its sad that Larussa considers him a platoon player.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
You really believe that that’s his career ceiling based on his rookie year? That there’s no way he could ever improve his splits enough to be a full-time starter? I strongly disagree with that take.
nrd1138
LaRussa has him platooning because this is a win now team and the days of experimenting are over. He has to prove it vs righties, but has been doing so in this young season so far.
JoeBrady
Vaughn would’ve been a good target in the off-season. If the WS liked him then, then they love him now.
ltully789
The A’s front office is already planning ahead for their 2026 fire sale.
GinaNCRaysFan
If the ChiSox really feel the need to trade Vaughn for pitching, they should be talking to the Marlins.
cwsOverhaul
Agreed. Mentioned that in another thread that it’s a better need for need potential deal than Oakland. Miami can use a long-term young bat like Vaughn + bit more from WSox, but doubt they would part with 1 of its top 2 young controllable starters that would help them now. It would certainly be interesting to see a trade involving only young and controllable players going both directions.
Iago407
This makes a LOT more sense than Montas tbh.
mattcoz
I mean, yeah, why wouldn’t they be? It’s still not happening.
Idioms for Idiots
Hahn should be fired immediately if he were to trade Vaughn for Montas. Nothing against Montas, but no way should Vaughn be traded.
Hopefully Hahn balking at trading Vaughn goes something like this:
Hahn: I’m interested in Montas
Beane: How about Vaughn in return
Hahn: *click*
jhomeslice
I have to believe this is nothing but hype and wishful thinking from the A’s. I should hope Hahn is not naive enough to consider trading Vaughn unless it is for something much better than Montas. I don’t think Sheets has a lot of trade value actually (plus I like him on the Sox, he is one of the only guys they have who seems to mash vs righties). I think a package involving Crochet might be a good starting point since he can’t help the Sox until 2024 probably. The Sox have a lot of middle infield prospects and could consider Montgomery.
I like Montas even if he is not worth Vaughn. He held up really well last year and seems like a guy who might be an innings horse, which the Sox could use the next two years. A lot of value there, just not enough to give up Vaughn. Montas struggled in his first outing, hopefully he starts slow to maybe bring his trade value down ever so slightly. I’d love to see him on the Sox. Crochet and Montgomery would be an overpay but might be worth it. They’re not getting him without giving up something better than either Crochet or Montgomery by themselves. But I’d rather the Sox do nothing than a gross overpay. Both Crochet/Montgomery probably too much.
Finlander
Almost 300 comments so far, kinda seems like a Marx Brothers movie!
Vaughn has an elite eye. He is an elite hitter. He doesn’t possess Torkelson’s power, but who does? He’s in that general territory. He’s not going anywhere. Chicago has plenty of pitching.
I don’t recall anybody ever complaining about David Ortiz’s positional limitations – except maybe the Twins management early in his career! You find ways to get elite bats into a lineup, and for only having 2 months in the minor leagues, Vaughn showed his willingness to play unfamiliar positions in the field. Chicago wanted his bat that quickly. I also remember that he tailed off while fighting an injury.
So forget it, Oakland. Your best shot was likely a deal with NY for Luke Voit and a prospect or two right after they signed Rizzo. Montas doesn’t get you Vaughn, no matter what the “Baseball Trade Values” suggest. Those values will greatly change in about 2 or 3 months. Or weeks.
Franco22
Sox need to add another starter to their mix. They are injury prone due to the short spring. All the team managers know this , just look at all the big names on the DL. Better win early this year it will get interesting when they all return.
Franco22
Montas and Vaughn are both improving. each year, so the Sox need to convince the A’s another prospect is just as valuable as Vaughn. That’s Hahn’s job. Billy Beane is a shrewd GM, Keep Vaughn and add Montas that’s the goal. The A’s have always fared better trading with Sox, the win now strategy doesn’t always work the Sox saw that last year.
atlas bunts
No-
Chisox378
I’d rather trade Robert than Vaughn. Vaughn is more of a polished hitter, where Robert is a free swinger.
Franco22
Keep smoking the funny stuff , ridiculous !
knuck2
Hey…I have this bridge you might be interested in.
Iago407
No. Just no.
Selkies
That’s cute, Oakland. But you better start with Montas and *at least* two significant near MLB-ready prospects and keep adding from there. Honestly, I’m not sure Oakland could put together a package that would entice the Sox now that they’ve moved Manaea.
I don’t think anyone who doesn’t watch the White Sox every day understands just how good Andrew Vaughn is looking. Not only is his bat looking special, but he has been much better in the corner outfield than anyone probably anticipated.
I think I’d trade Eloy before Vaughn, at this point. For the record, though, we don’t want to move either of them preferably.
Franco22
Montas tonight 4/13 IP 6, H 5, R 1, K’s. 6 Win 1-1
soxtober05
It’s funny that practically everyone here has completely overlooked the fact that the Sox have one Johnny Cueto in the minors to fall back on. Maybe he’s lost some his stuff of yore, but I’ll bet he’s got something left to prove to the naysayers. Possible that Hahn actually found lightning in a bottle? ‘Spose we’ll find out….