Yankees GM Brian Cashman met with reporters yesterday, discussing numerous Bronx Bombers-related topics with Newsday’s Erik Boland (Twitter links), MLB.com’s Bryan Hoch, The Associated Press, and other media members.
Aaron Judge’s contract was one of the subjects addressed, as the star slugger didn’t agree to terms with the club on his 2022 salary before last Tuesday’s deadline to file arbitration figures. As it stands, Judge and the Yankees will now head to a hearing, with Judge seeking $21MM and the Yankees offering $17MM — the $4MM gap is the largest between any player and team slated for an arb case this spring.
However, a much larger contract could be in the offing. Judge is set for free agency next winter, and Yankees owner Hal Steinbrenner has already stated that the club will discuss a long-term extension. Cashman said the same Saturday, with a nod to Judge’s preference to have all negotiations wrapped up prior to the start of the season.
“Between now and Opening Day we’ll make an offer and he’ll obviously receive an offer and all the conversions will have taken place and will either resolve into a multiyear deal or it won’t,” Cashman said. “We’re committed. We’ll make an offer and hear what he has to say in response and then it will be pencils down before Opening Day.”
It should be noted that the opener probably isn’t an absolute deadline, as the two sides aren’t likely to cease talks if they’re on the proverbial two-yard line towards finalizing an extension. Most players have shared Judge’s preference to restrict contract talks to the offseason, yet it isn’t uncommon for major extensions to be announced a few days or even a few weeks beyond Opening Day.
In fact, Judge himself told The New York Post’s Dan Martin and other reporters Saturday that there could be some flexibility to his April 7 deadline. “If there are negotiations [after Opening Day], I won’t be talking to [the media] about it at all. We haven’t decided yet, but for right now, that’s what we’ve got.”
Given that the Yankees have rarely extended players in the Hal Steinbrenner era, the fact that the two sides are talking long-term is itself notable, and a nod to just how well Judge has performed over his first six seasons. If a multi-year pact can’t be arranged, it isn’t out of the question that the two sides might still just work out a one-year pact in order to sidestep the potential awkwardness of an arbitration hearing. As Martin notes, the Yankees haven’t gone to a hearing since 2016.
“Our position has always been, we wind up only in a hearing if we’re dragged there,” Cashman said. “We only go when forced to go. We’re not afraid of going. Our history shows that we stay out of that arena unless we’re compelled to get there.”
Judge’s situation might dominate the headlines for the Yankees in their final days of camp, as the team could be finished with its major offseason work. “We’re prepared to go with what we have here,” Cashman said, while acknowledging that the door is always open in some respect for potential new moves: “We’ve stayed in touch and engaged a lot of clubs about our needs. If something comes out of those discussions, great.”
In terms of what any new additions might cost, Cashman noted the financial “flexibility” provided by ownership “doesn’t mean it [the payroll] won’t get higher but that doesn’t mean it will either.” Team spending has been a hot issue in the Bronx over the last two years, as the Yankees looked to get under the luxury tax line in 2021, then largely sat out free agency both before and after the lockout. (This isn’t to say that the offseason has been all that quiet, given that the Yankees’ five-player blockbuster deal with the Twins is arguably the winter’s biggest trade.)
Cashman did point out, however, that the Yankees are set to have their highest-ever payroll. Roster Resource projects the club for roughly $245.9MM in actual dollars spent on payroll, with a luxury tax number of just under $262.3MM. That latter figures not only puts New York back in excess of the $230MM tax threshold, but beyond the first tier ($250MM) of penalization. That means that the Yankees are currently slated to pay a 32% surtax on every dollar spent beyond the threshold, given they reclaimed “first-timer” status after getting under the tax line last year.
A new deal with longtime Yankee Brett Gardner isn’t likely to cost all that much, though it remains unclear if Gardner is a candidate to return for a 15th season in the pinstripes. “Right now we’re focused on what we have,” Cashman said in regards to the roster, while also adding that he has had multiple talks with Gardner’s representatives since Spring Training opened.
In theory, New York already has plenty of outfield depth on the roster, between the starting trio of Judge, Aaron Hicks and Joey Gallo, Giancarlo Stanton and Miguel Andujar capable of playing on the grass, and Marwin Gonzalez, Tim Locastro and Ender Inciarte all in the mix. With injuries an ever-looming threat, a reunion with Gardner could be feasible, especially since Gardner has been such an important clubhouse leader.
StudWinfield
Please let’s move on from Gardy. Let him play somewhere else. If he’s worth it, give someone a lottery ticket to bring him back. Better off seeing what the yanks have in Hicks, Locastro, Floral and company than to commit a 40 spot to him right now.
When it was a game.
Would like to see him just retire. Had a really nice yankee career and time to say goodbye.
estesi
He should of retired years ago
josiahdd
Locastro is horrible. He’s fast, but has the bat of a D2 college player from upstate NY.
AmericanRedneck
Gardy is better than the replacements they’ve signed to “replace” him. Hicks will be on the DL again, dude cannot stay healthy – Gardy, a bench piece last year did better than other replacements in similar circumstances around the league.
IMHO, he is not done yet, I get it – the new shiny thing is preferred among casuals but Gardy is a valuable piece, for the right team. Should he play everyday? NO! But that doesn’t mean he should retire, there are guys with consecutive negative WAR seasons still getting PT spots, when’s Gardy’s last negative WAR season? He’ll have a good season, if he has an opportunity- using his track record and health as a metric. Some guys look 38 at 35, he’s not one of them.
estesi
Yankees are the best they don’t sign a ss when they are in need for one but give another team 50mm so they can sign him.
SupremeZeus
Gardy is Yankee heroin. They just can’t quit.
Dr2022
Yes please
KnicksFanCavsFan
@stud
There’s no “see what Hicks can do”. If healthy, he’s the starting CF. Yanks have him signed for about 4/$40 mil. Yanks have a righty dominant lineup and while none of Gallo, Judge, Hicks or Stanton would, should or will be subject to lefty/ righty platooning, having Gardy wouldn’t be a bad idea especially considering how injury prone we are. Besides, Gonzales and Inciarte both had sub .600 OPS. That’s worse than Gardy. I have no idea if Florial is doomed to be a backup but while he showed power in AA/AAA he certainly needs more ABs before he’s thrust into facing mlb pitching. He’s still only 24. I’d rather give him as many ABs in AAA than have him sit on the bench. Gardy clearly would be a 4th OF and he wouldn’t be blocking anyone better at this point. As long as he’s cheap might as well bring him back one more year.
Joseph Gonzalez
The Yankees should just buy out judges last arbitration year. Also gardy we love you but it’s time to move forward. He would be a good coach if anything
Perksy
Well that is the plan with the extension
TrillionaireTeamOperator
I think Gardner is the best and most versatile option for the extra outfielder role, regardless of age or nostalgia. I think if he was just an unknown he’d provide more overall reliability and value than Locastro or Martin etc.
The Judge situation will only not get worked out if judge wants in excess of $5M additional per season or in excess of 3 seasons beyond d the Yankees’ comfort zone,
In my humble opinions.
gocincy
I agree. Gardner seems to be a big locker room presence. At least as far as I can tell from outside the locker room.
Dr2022
Yeah I’m sure the younger players appreciate his constant hazing of them And they’ve done so much winning with him there lol
Ducky Buckin Fent
Kinda lost in the shuffle of your post, @Dr202; Gardy got a ring.
Pistol23
Ducky- check out 3/30 Yankee news comments on your old site. Go Yanks, peace brother.
Yankeepride88
I see the Yankees offering 6 years and Judge wanting 7. I’m guessing Yankees offer him 6yr $180m
FSF
I say give him that 7th year as a vesting option if he has 500 PAs in the final year or 1000 PAs in the final two. The Yanks don’t do enough of that sort of thing IMO.
stymeedone
@fsf
Give him the Freddie Freeman offer and make him a free man!
rememberthecoop
Why stop at 7 – maybe Judge wants 10. I believe him when he says he wants to stay a Yankee, but I’m fairly certain he won’t take a discount. Why should he? He has all the leverage. I say 8 years, 280MM.
FSF
Because he will be entering his age 31 season and no other team is giving him 10 years or anything remotely close unless it is for a very low AAV. How does he have all the leverage? We all know he desperately wants to be a Yankee lifer. He’s also been injured often. You’re out your mind if you think an 8/280 or anything remotely close is an appropriate contract.
The Yankees obviously are willing to lose him if need be and deploy the funds elsewhere. If I/we didn’t have an emotional attachment, trading him now (if they could get something truly worthwhile) would probably be the best course of action. But there really isn’t much of a fit on the trading market as far as I can tell.
Yankee Clipper
I agree. Judge may want to be paid a ton but I see him at about $30M/year. I don’t envision the Yankees paying $35M. It’s simply too much for them. I could see them going 6-8 depending on options & incentives.
estesi
The Yankees must be out of their mind to spend 280ms on a 30 year old who is injury prone and will soon probably start breaking down.
stymeedone
Have you not been watching his career? Its already started,and should be referred as continuing to break down.
Captain Judge99
@Yankeepride88- no, that’s definitely not going to be enough for me.
Bighert
Gardner has been trash for years. Supposed to be a speed and leadoff guy who hits for a trash average and doesn’t steal bases. Great at fouling off balls and taking a walk but is that really a skill when u have no power and no outfield arm? Common 100 guys in triple A who can put up a 220/330/350 line like gardner, have better outfield arms and be more of a threat on the bases
BaseballClassic1985
You mean Gardner hasn’t been worthy of your fantasy league team. To say Gardner has been trash for years shows how ignorant you are of real major league baseball. Gardner has been a vital – and durable – member of the Yankees thru the 2021 season.
Dr2022
Agreed. That would be so important to the clubhouse allegedly, why have they not done any much winning since he’s been there, at least in the postseason. And I’m sure the younger players appreciate his constant sadistic hazing
Ham Fighter
No hit no power all foul balls player!
Captain Judge99
I’m definitely resigning with the Yankees, regardless of my arbitration situation this season. There is no other place I’d rather be.
Roll
Didnt Bryce Harper say the same thing, he wanted to be a yankee but the yankees said no not for that price?
Or do you mean they will stay with the team they have known forever like Freddie Freeman, Jose Reyes, Albert Pujols, etc etc
FSF
I’m pretty sure the latter. They very well may have gone after Harper if they had not recently traded for Stanton. But even then, Harper was not the player he is today when he was a free agent. He was coming off good but not superstar years and had a long history (like Judge) of being injured. His tenure at Philly has obviously been superb and mostly injury free.
Roll
i agree that he was not a superstar but still a good player. I would not agree that he was injury prone like judge 3 out of the last 4 years before free agency he played 140 plus games. Judge only hit 140 2x out of 5 full seasons (i dont include rookie years since almost everyone starts late) and even if you prorate the shortened season he wouldnt have even made 100 games.
BTW just fyi i would not have given bryce that deal when he was free agent but in hindsight he has been worth it.
Captain Judge99
@Roll- apparently Harper was crushed the Yankees never even made him a offer. No interest in him was surprising, but the handwriting on the wall was when they traded for Stanton.
rememberthecoop
Yankees fans think every player wants to play there. If Harper said that, he also probably said that about many teams to drive up his price. The Cubs never made him an offer but he supposedly wanted to play there too. It’s just talk.
FSF
Harper grew up being a huge Yankee fan and idolized Mickey Mantle. Yes, he specifically wanted to be a Yankee. Obviously not at any price but it was his favorite team growing up.
Yankee Clipper
This is very true. Harper was a Yankee fan & wanted to be a Yankee. Even Cameron Maybin said that the pinstripes weigh heavier than other uniforms & it certainly brought out the best in him. He also believes the Yankees aren’t for every player for just that reason.
So, we are sorry we are too good for some of you. It’s tough to be the best, but someone’s got to do it. Hal’s doing his best to slum & act like we aren’t better than other teams, letting the LAD take some heat, but Yankees will always be that pinnacle. So, yes, most players want to play there, especially the ones who were diehard Yankees fans growing up.
Even Roger Clemens said he finally understood what it meant to be a Yankee when he went over there. I could go on, but it’s not necessary.
Rsox
Playing in the Bronx, Boston, and even Philadelphia comes with far greater expectations than playing in Kansas City or Tampa Bay. Even storied franchises like the Cubs, Cardinals, and Dodgers don’t come with the pressures of those cities. Maybin is correct, wearing the pinstripes (or the Red Socks, if you will) are not for everyone
Yanks2
Sign Judge to a 6 year 200m deal and call it a day. I still can’t believe they are paying Donaldson 50m over the next two years. It’s idiotic moves like that which cripple the ability to sign Judge to a contract that he deserves. What a slap in the face to Aaron Judge. Just like when they signed Ellsbury instead of giving it to Cano
Joe S
Wow, really focusing on Donaldson at 25 x 2? He was a must take in the deal, but provides good numbers and experience for a team which lacks real leadership. JD is actually a pretty good deal when you factor it all in. In addition, his number won’t change how they approach Judge. AJ new contract won’t kick in until next year anyway.
Perksy
I think it would kick in this year and buy out the final year of arb.
believeitornot
I think it would kick in this year also. Then it would be a seven year deal. He probably wants a contract where he gets 200 for six and another 30 for a seventh. I think the Yankees will offer 210 – 220 for seven.
emac22
How is he a must take when the only other return is two backups?
We didn’t even need a third baseman.
FSF
The Yanks upgraded 3B & SS by about 5-6 WAR for a measly $12-13M additional payroll. It was the right decision by the Yanks.
emac22
Unfortunately you can’t use stats in such a simplistic way to prove anything so you’re either trying to fool me or you’ve already fooled yourself.
FSF
So please use stats in a complicated way and explain to us why the trade was so bad.
Yanks2
Donaldson is a washed up has been that won an MVP 7 years ago which should’ve gone to someone named Mike Trout. Donaldson isn’t even worth half what he’s guaranteed salary-wise. Just like majority of the Yankees, he’ll probably land on the injured list. See Kluber, Severino, Rortvedt, Hicks, Voit, Bird for comparison examples.
Yes, Ben Rortvedt. The guy they acquired in that trade and he’s already injured and it’s only Spring Training. Unbelievable.
srechter
Ah, Yankees fans. They’re cute, sometimes, ya know?
FSF
Donaldson played 135 games and generated a WAR of over 3 in 2021. How is that washed up? He played a lot more than Urshela.
Yanks2
Always injured, overpaid
Captain Judge99
@srecher- Nah, Yankee fans are always gorgeous, all year.
TheTrotsky
And better than Urshela.
emac22
He played more than Gio?
More WAR than Gio?
These aren’t reason to pay someone 25 million dollars when you don’t have enough money to address your actual needs.
FSF
@Yanks2
Once again, he played 135 games last year. Urshela only 116. And how is he overpaid? He’s put up the numbers that justify a $25M AAV contract. If he does what he did last year, any true Yankee fan should be grateful.
FSF
@emac22
The WAR signifies that he played MUCH better than Gio. Why are you ignoring the OBVIOUS. You pay for performance, and he performed. What is it about that simple reality you don’t get?
Captain Judge99
@Yanks2-you’re in the right ballpark. I will definitely resign for $210 million for 6 years. You have the pen? Let’s just get this done already!
larkraxm
They shouldn’t have paid Ellsbury, but they were right not pay Cano.
Doug Dueck
The 49.5m the Yankees are paying Donaldson includes 6.5m buyout in lieu of a 3rd year so actually he is getting 21.5m per year this year and next year; just sayin’
kylelohse
Imagine spending $262 million in payroll just to finish as runner up to the Rays three years in a row.
Yanks2
I don’t think Hal Steinbrenner really cares about winning. He’s more worried about staying below the MLB luxury tax. One WS appearance since 2009. Very sad
Samuel
@ Yanks2;
Please…..
Of course Hal cares about winning. Every owner of every MLB franchise does.
There are 2 problems:
1. Cashman runs the organization along with him. They’re used to doing what the Yankees used to do successfully and what you and most Yankee fans want to do: overpay the top free agents each year. But they got stuck with long-term contracts for A-Rod, Ellsbury and 5 other guys.
2. More then half the FO’s in MLB have passed them using technology and processes in how to: a) acquire players that their development staff and coaches can upgrade; b) make in-season moves to help the manager maximize their ML roster; c) provide the manager data for him to make strategic matchup moves during games; and d) have a manager that has the experience and ability to do that.
In short, they have a so-so farm system that hasn’t produced much of anything the past 5 years. They have a manager that makes common moves – i.e. putting in a LH pitcher to face an LH batter in the late innings; putting in a strong defender in the late innings of a game they’re winning, etc.
The Yankees are so far behind at least 70% of MLB FO’s that all they can do is throw money at players. And they give up on their own players. Gio is this years example – he falls off a bit, so they use him in trade to patch a hole and take on the contract of an over-the-hill guy that’s making 3 times Gio’s salary….and that contract will not age well. They pressure and ruin young players. They get stuck with overpaid veterans that they can’t move in trade.
The above has been going on for years now. And all Yankee fans do is demand they overpay more FA’s.
Samuel
A 20 year-old SS in A+ ball will not revive that franchise.
A David Stearns can. I’m waiting to hear about the extension he was going to sign in Spring Training.
rocky7
Glad we just tune you out Samuel…..Trolling again against the Yankees on a Sunday!
Yanks2
I mean that’s pretty much all true and accurate and I can’t disagree with really any of that. But I still don’t think Hal cares about winning. If he did he would’ve traded Andujar and Frazier for Cole in 2017 and Torres and a prospect for Luis Castillo in 2019. It’s almost as if he wants the Yankees to lose intentionally. He holds onto touted prospects that wind up getting plagued with injuries and then trades them after the fact or let them go on waivers
Captain Judge99
Yes, Samuel’s panties are always in a bunch trolling.
bigjonempire
Everytime I start to think you’re a smart dude you make a series of dumb posts like this that show you talk out your ass.
Joe says...
And Sam is a KC fan. Which makes just plain weird that he’s so infatuated with the Yankees. I also take it as a badge of honor that he blocked me.
FSF
Oh the actions of weak minds. You and me both have been blocked. Though I do notice he takes a peek when his curiosity gets the best of him. Another weak attribute.
Yankee Clipper
He blocked me first!!!
Although, isn’t it incredibly ironic that he follows all the Yankees articles, posts on all the comments, but blocks all the Yankees fans? Lol, what a tool he is.
FSF
Maybe Samuel just doesn’t like Yankee fans with the cool gold badges.
Ducky Buckin Fent
A supposedly grown man, with nothing better to do than troll complete strangers on the internet. How truly sad.
Dear, God.
Please take me well before something like that happens to me.
Amen.
Captain Judge99
@Joe says- The Royals probably don’t even want to have Sam as a fan, so he must continue to troll the Yankees. Lol
Yankee Clipper
Ducky: Over/Under on signing Judge?
I’m going…. 7/$200M as the benchmark.
Captain, are you taking it?
FSF
I’ll go over though $200M should easily be enough to get it done. If we allocate $20M to this season, that leaves a 6/$180 contract. Freeman signed a 6/$148M (when taking into account the deferrals). While Judge is one year younger (upon free agency) and is a somewhat better hitter, he’s not as durable either. 6/180 for his free agent years should be plenty enough.
While his agent wants to talk about Judge’s impact and face of the Yankees and all that, the bottom line is, they do WAY more for him than vice versa. He wouldn’t have 13 endorsement deals which probably pays him 8 figures, if he weren’t on the Yanks. I don’t mind going a bit over for sentimentality’s sake, but I’m perfectly good moving on if he wants to play serious hardball.
Ducky Buckin Fent
I’m not very good at that stuff, Clip.
So…over?
FSF
They’re already in luxury tax territory and have the largest payroll in team history for a team that regularly has one of the Top 2 or 3 payrolls. Spending more money is not the problem and never has been. They’ve gotten into the postseason plenty of times. It’s a crapshoot after that.
slider32
Yanks make 800 million a year, they can go over the limit this year and be 100 million under next year. They will have 70 million to spend next year even giving Judge a long term contract!
larkraxm
It is the reason a salary cap is not necessary. Spending money does not equal winning in the absence of scouting talent and player development.
Joe S
Judges is awesome when he is on the field. However, he has only played in 80% of the games since 2016. Considering that players break down more after 30 whatever contract he gets will come back to bite them badly in its 2nd half. Based on performance in games he plays he should get about a 30/7 (210mil) contract. With injury history the real number should be about a 7 yr 168 mil deal. Doesn’t seem like a tough negotiation.
emac22
He’s such a tough player to figure out.
I love him but I’d trade him if I could get anything approaching value instead of signing him long term.
If we were the Dodgers I’d of course resign him but if Hal signs him it will mean being cheap in other areas to compensate and that would mean he ends up really hurting the team if things go as projected.
We have to adjust as fans to the fact that we just aren’t run the way we used to be run and that means you either accept the wildcard every year or avoid the risks that can cripple the small and mid market teams you’re trying to emulate.
luclusciano
I’m not saying he’s Mike Trout – but comparing him to arguably the best player in MLB. Over the last four years he has played 363 games – would you trade Trout because he’s a tough player to figure out with injuries? Rounding – Trout is 22 WAR over that 4 year stretch. Judge has played 390 games over the 4 years and rounding, he is 20 WAR. Judge has been one of the most productive MLB players since he came up, and there is no indication he is slowing down.
I don’t see why a team – especially the Yankees – would not want to lock him up long term.
emac22
You can’t say you aren’t comparing him to Mike Trout and then ask me to compare him to Mike Trout.
Instead of pretending he’s the best player in baseball lets just look at what he actually is.
He’s a huge outfielder who is almost 30 and wants annual money close to what the best players in the game get for a long time.
The only real question is what are your other options with that money. What he did before, what percentage of Mike Trout he represents or any of that stuff isn’t relevant.
You just can’t pay a bunch of right fielders and DH’s 20-30 million dollars a year and compete.
Not only is there an indication he is going to slow down it’s a proven fact.
luclusciano
I literally say I am comparing him to him. The point you made is that you would trade him. I was explaining that trading him doesn’t make sense, the comparison to Trout was to bring in the “tough to figure out part”.
Yankees have always signed DHs and big hitters to win World Series. It absolutely works, and it absolutely has happened for a long time sine George took over.
A proven fact? That as we get older we change, yes – that is true. And he will be 32, but that is no reason to think he doesn’t have a solid 3-4 years in the field and at the plate, and then another couple solid DH years.
emac22
My fail. When you said you aren’t saying he’s trout a skipped ahead.
The percentage argument is absolutely wrong. That’s the easiest way to lose every trade and build a bad team.
They have Stanton. No one is saying don’t have a good DH. The argument is not to build a collection of high paid players at a limited number of positions.
Yes it is a proven fact that people get older, slower and weaker. It doesn’t mean you throw them away but it means you factor it into the contract.
I think they should sign him and go over the tax because he pays his salary off the field. I don’t think Hal would do that so from a competitive standpoint I think the team would probably be better if they traded him to the right team.
I think there are lots of ways to get him top dollar in exchange for a shorter deal, options, conditions or whatever. I just don’t think he’ll want to do that and I think other teams would be happy to “overpay” him.
It’s a tough spot because he got a late start and has one shot at a huge deal. He’s also earned it on and off the field.
stymeedone
The Dodgers didn’t resign Seager. I’d guess that means they wouldn’t resign Judge either.
slider32
I can’t imagine Cashman not getting this deal done, Judge gets 6/180-200 with an option!
FSF
I think that should do it but I don’t think Judge thinks that.
believeitornot
That should get it done. However, I don’t think it does.
brucenewton
They gave Hicks 7 years. He’ll probably want at least that number. Does he want to be the highest paid Yankee in AAV? Not sure. If so, 7/255.
FSF
I’m guessing that’s around what he wants but I’m personally not comfortable beyond 7/225, which would include this ARB year. To be clear, I wouldn’t pay that for him (or all that close) if he wasn’t already the most prominent Yankee face.
slider32
True, you make a great point! I think your number of 7/255 might be spot on!
Captain Judge99
@slider32- No, I definitely need a little more than $180-200 million, but I definitely like the idea of an option for a 7th season though.
FSF
I think he was suggesting it was a team option. It does seem rather unusual to have an option on a long-term contract that ends in the player’s late 30s.
RickEO
Give judge 10 yr 350. That’s fair
Samuel
Aww, heck……
Da man’s da face of da franchise. Give him 12/$480.
Wahdaya, CHEEEP?!?!?!?!?
MLB-1971
12/$480,000,000 sounds like a typical Yankee contract, lol
believeitornot
Who made you a judge? Far too much and far too many years.
LFGMets (Metsin7)
Extending Judge would be a mistake, hes always hurt. Better off lowballing him or trading him away for a bunch of prospects. Would compare him to Buxton but better
Yanks2
No prospects that the Yankees develop ever turn into quality ballplayers. Chance Adams, Greg Bird, Justus Sheffield for examples. Judge is an established MVP player despite being injured a lot. He’s the better option than to trade him for a bunch of unproven talent
GB85
Bird is actually looking pretty good in Spring Training…as a Blue Jay.
LFGMets (Metsin7)
@Yanks22 Did the Yankees not develop Judge? Jeter?
brucenewton
Judge is the only star Cashman has plucked from amateur draft. He has hit on amateur free agents ( like Cano ) once or twice. It’s been a real struggle compared to the talent he competition’s been producing.
larkraxm
Did they develop because of or in spite of Yankee’s farm system??? When you can only name two 20 years apart, you have to wonder, It’s more than development. It is also scouting.
bigjonempire
How did the Yankees get Judge? Didn’t half the pitchers on the staff come up through the farm?
believeitornot
He was drafted by the Yankees in the first round and 32nd overall from California State University in Fresno.
believeitornot
With only one year left, I don’t think they would get all that much for him.
Yankee Clipper
I truly question the Yankees ability & willingness to close on any deal any more. They simply don’t have the commitment to the team, the fans, the players, winning, or anything outside of their budget to get it done. I will be surprised if they can come to terms with Judge.
Saying they haven’t found a guy at the right price is no excuse for bailing on filing voids their roster needs in order win. They simply don’t spend well.
CJML
In fairness, they have a massive payroll.
Yankee Clipper
Yes, you’re right, which is why I concluded with “they don’t spend well.” They spend dollars to save pennies, it makes no sense.
Put it this way: they could’ve had JT Realmuto, but he was too much. Instead they spent that money on DJL? They could’ve had Harper, but spent that money in Stanton? They could’ve had Story but spent that money on Donaldson. I can keep going and it gets worse
emac22
The catcher is the big one for me. What have they been watching and how do we go into this season with no one in our system except Higgy if Sanchez is literally a throw away?.
How can a business operate with so little planning and effort at such a crucial position?
The whole point of being a big market team is to take advantage of it by overpaying for the things you really want and need but they’re literally so afraid of over paying that we go 4 or 5 years without filling obvious holes instead of risking an overpay.
Realmoto and Grandal not only solved this problem years ago but might have literally won us a series in several of them.. Shoot, one of them might have allowed us to trade Gary for a star before he was exposed.
All of that happened because at the most critical position on the team the fear of overpaying took the best financial & on field decision completely off the table..
It’s sort of funny because it’s the same reason poor people often stay poor. The fear of taking a risk with a gigantic loan to buy a house looks really scary and comes with so much risk and complexity most people decide to take the simple route and just buy a house for someone else instead…
rocky7
Their payroll is dominated by 2 significant contracts…..Cole and Stanton….and while both have played well (Stanton over the last year or so) they simply have not been able to elevate the team along with them into anything more than a playoff team that eventually fails……Hal runs the team as a business which is not the way his father did……get over it because it isn’t changing.
A team that wins an average of 90+ games a year and has been in the playoffs with their record over the last 20 years isn’t a failure……they just are what they are….
emac22
What they are under Hal and cash is a failure.
Being pretty good in the regular season is the result of spending 200 million a year.
They fail by every other metric and there are lots of other metrics.
luclusciano
I think the last paragraph destroys your theory. Hard to take risks with money, if you don’t have money. You need assets and collateral to get money.
Regardless – vision in hindsight is always 20/20 – I FULLY agree with you that they hamstring themselves not having a standout catcher and never being able to develop pitching (since the mid-90s). Yankees have always been a buy and win team. To think otherwise would be foolish.
Yankee Clipper
Yeah, exactly. Which is why it’s so perplexing they try to operate like the Rays at times and think it will work…it won’t. Yet Hal, Cash, & Boone continually bring up what the Rays do as a model. Plus, as I cited above, they spend the money anyway, just not when/where they need to. Arguably the last person they needed to sign positionally, was DJ, but they did. Arguably the first person they needed to sign positionally, was Grandal/JT Realmuto, but they wouldn’t because of costs. It’s a confounding business spending plan.
Even this year, if Volpe/Peraza fail, the will say, “well hindsight is 20/20.” But, no, they should’ve acquired a real SS during their window of contention. They’ve lacked one since DD left.
They’ve traded to supply positions of abundance. They’ve acquired FAs to supply positions of abundance or taken fliers on random reclamation projects. What they haven’t done in years is address specific positions of need with true talent.
emac22
Obviously not everyone is able to put themselves in a position to buy but my point isn’t that anyone can field a good baseball team. You don’t need great credit and you don’t need any money down to buy a house so for a lot of the working poor it’s a decision made for a lot of really good reasons.
The problem is that those good reasons usually aren’t worth the loss of profit and tax benefits it costs them.
How it relates to the Yankees is the fear. causing them not to make the right financial decision even though it seems so obvious to everyone else and even though the cost of not acting is so high.
In the case of a house it’s hundreds of thousands of dollars that you simply get back if you rent instead of buy.
In the case of the Yankees it’s seasons lost or very expensive moves made as a direct result of not wanting to overpay for the right piece.
It’s weak but it been a recurring theme in my life since the pandemic as people fear complexity more than ever even though you can make so much money from nothing simply by restructuring things you already do.
stymeedone
@ yankeeclipper
Two points: 1. Every team uses Tampa Bay as a model, which is why so many teams have hired personnel from TBR. and 2. The Yankees, due to their payroll, are always in a window of contention.
redsox for_life
160/5 wt options for 6 and 7 years
Mickey777
Gardner would be OKAY if the Yanks had 3 regular outfielders that had a history of playing every day. Clearly this isn’t the case. Brett thanks for everything, but you no longer fit our needs. We need a 4th outfielder that is capable of playing 130 games at a high level. Someone like Ramon Laureano or even Michael Conforto. Conforto can’t play center, but Judge and Gallo could see some time there. This in no way predicting that the Yanks are pursuing either one. They are praying that their outfielders will stay healthy, given their past history this is a pipe dream.
Scott Kliesen
Want to know why Rays are the Yankees daddy? It’s because the Rays know when to deal valuable but expensive players away to get back valuable and inexpensive players. For the Rays know valuable but expensive players turn into expensive yard art not long after getting broke off. Aaron Judge = Yard Art in a few years.
emac22
ahhh – I thought it was a decade of being the worst team in baseball and getting really high picks every year in addition to getting picks for letting all of their good players go.
Scott Kliesen
Yankees love old timers day so much they do it 162 times each year.
Joe says...
Don’t forget the competitive balance picks.
Yankee Clipper
Yeah, it’s easy to make fun of the team that foots the bill and keeps your lights on….
GMS Field draws more to ST games, which are virtually sold out all spring, than the Rays do in-season, but that’s why they need the hand-outs, extra picks, top selections, etc.
I say, the whole draft should be a lottery – let’s see the small-minded…I mean small-markets crying when the Yankees, LAD, & others start landing top picks a few years in a row. They talk about fairness & competitive balance, huh, well, there’s some fairness for you.
StPeteStingRays
Clipper, long gone are the days of the Tampa Bay Devil Rays and their perennial top picks. I appreciate the yankees keeping on the A/C though.
Captain Judge99
@Scott Kliesen- thinking the Rays are you’re real Daddy? Calm down, get a grip and stop trolling. Enjoy the Trop or whatever you call it.
Mickey777
@Scott. The Rays see a player and say with his skill set he could successfully fill a particular need that we have. The Yankees, on the other hand, see a player and try to make him into what they want or need of him regardless of his skill set.
believeitornot
Better to trade away a player one year too soon than one year too late. Since they have such a low payroll, it is probably better to trade two years too soon than two years too late.
Robert Phillips
Brett Gardner again? Never before have I seen such fuss over a career 256 hitter over whether the Yankees will resign him-again. Last year, there was literally breathless daily reporting over whether Gardner and the legendary Jay Bruce would make the team. Regretfully, both did. Bruce quit after hitting one pop up right field homer and was benched. Gardner well, was Gardner light. Both contributed to a team that was virtually unwatchable, consisting of hitters swinging from the heels, Meanwhile, I have been hearing wonderful things from Yankee broadcasters about Josh Donaldson. he will fit right in-a 247 average and about 115 strikeouts in 400 plus at bats.
emac22
Brett Gardner again? Never have I seen people so triggered by a lifetime Yankee making a few million dollars on a team with a 250 million dollar payroll..
Are you going to blame beer vendors and coaches too?
Whiteguilt
That couple million is the difference between competing with the rays or not
Captain Judge99
@Whiteguilt- who the hell cares about the low budget Sting Rays and their deadbeat fans?
emac22
If it is than the problem is Hal not spending a couple of extra million to win.
larkraxm
Locastro taking a roster spot is more frustrating to me.
rocky7
Sure you have…the Red Sox interest in Brock Holt who they finally let go but Holt couldn’t hold Gardy’s bat!
whyhayzee
Are you talking about the one time All Star who was part of a World Championship team, is the only player to ever hit for the cycle in the postseason, and never once pounded his bat on the dugout ceiling like a petulant child?
whyhayzee
What will Error in Judgement do this postseason if he’s even still on the Yankees? Will he blast New York New York after a win in Minnesota and inspire the Twins to finally crush the life out of the Yankees? Will he try to gallop home in a game against the Rangers and get pegged out by a Texas mile? Or will he just be on the injured list with an owie? Stay tuned.
But seriously folks, if they don’t sign him to an extension soon, what are they thinking?
I mean, he’s a huge amount better than Conforto and even the Mets tried to get that done.
emac22
They will because he brings people to the park & it pays his salary.
Frankie Bani
No consistency in all NY players,,someone will start hurt,,Who is next ???,,to the DL list ? Open the season,,mmmm
pounder
Regime change coming.This team will perform badly this year.Hope against hope
I am wrong,but the FO must go. Are you listening Hal???
FSF
It’s astounding how many jealous trolls crawl out of the woodwork for a Yankees thread.
Joe says...
They don’t boo nobodies. -Reggie Jackson
FSF
Well put.
Rsox
Gardner represents the last player who was still with the team the last time they won a championship. Sentimental value i suppose. Perhaps its time for both to move on.
As for Judge; buyer beware. Any new contract for Judge is going to overlap with Stanton. So unless Stanton opts out (highly unlikely) the Yankees are going to have to count on at least one of them to play the OF well in to their 30’s
steveb-2
Solution:
Brett Gardner, Yankees Coach
davemlaw
Judge isn’t getting an extension. NYY makes him play whole season and then they negotiate. Yankees are not going to invest in declining assets anymore like Ellsbury or A-Rod. They’re better off giving Correa that money next season after he opts out with Twins. Judge has 2 more good seasons left in him before the wheels fall off. The Mets will pay him though.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
Bet the Twins promised to trade him to where the action is…….
yanks2323
How about getting some starting pitching Brian, stop hoarding your prospects!
Captain Judge99
@yanks2323- Montas? Manaea? Castillo? Who do you want? It is pretty frustrating.
Yanks2
All 3
Whiteguilt
It must be so frustrating watching the spoiled Yankees lose every year to the cheap Rays. The rats truly are the Yankees daddy
Captain Judge99
@Whiteguilt- with all the Sting Rays success, how many championships do they have? Answer: ZERO
Yankee Clipper
This is exactly why I’m so perplexed when Hal, Cash, or Boone references trying to be more like the Rays. Why? It hasn’t done anything for their team’s championship aspirations. It’s resulted in their team being competitive, yes, but the Yankees *could* be WS contenders every single year.
larkraxm
Nope. It’s exciting that the Yankees have a competitive roster every year. You will never win them all, and some franchises have never been to a World series. It’s fun to be playing/watching meaningful games in September. There are lots of teams that have a higher payroll than the Rays that finished below them in the standings. When this window closes for the Rays they will be the Orioles again, and the Yankees will still have a competitive roster.
wifflemeister
So apparently, he can now play in his own home park. How many games will he miss against Toronto this season? That should be factored in. Call it the “stupid tax.”
Captain Judge99
Yankees=27 Championships
Sting Rays=O Championships
StPeteStingRays
Use your own creativity, future 1B/DH
stymeedone
@capn judge
To be fair, since TBR have only been around since 1998, its NYY 3 and TBR 0.
Balding Vinny
Judge will be signing with the Sox next off season.
Captain Judge99
No, @Balding Vinny- I am resigning with the Yankees before the beginning of this season.
Adampunk13
This is a extension that must happen. And Gardy as much I love him we need to move on
Captain Judge99
@Adampunk13- It may have already happened, but you never heard that from me.
amk1920
Cashman has become incompetent at this point. The Hicks, Britton and Chapman extensions were all bad. Taking on Stantons contract clogged up their payroll. Cole is good but using a 330 million contract on a pitcher is not a good use of that resource. Harper could have been had on that exact same deal. Then Correa becomes available at a reasonable price and they pass. Just terrible management, no wonder they haven’t won a pennant since 2009.
FSF
Does anyone ever speak around here without the benefit of pure hindsight? Hicks extension was lauded by the baseball world when it was signed. Most baseball people predicted the pick up of Britton’s contract. Chapman has been a monster through most of his contract with last year being the exception and even then had a 136 ERA+ and he’s only got this year remaining so I’m not sure what you’re problem there is. Cole was a young TRUE ace and there were couple of other teams around $300M, one that was for a year less. None of those signings should be criticized unless one wants to rewrite history. Stanton was also largely favored by Yankee Nation as he was coming off a 59HR MVP season and was 27 years old at the time and a decent chunk of his pay was picked up. Harper was coming off two decent but not amazing seasons. Look around the baseball world beyond the Yanks, that’s pretty much largely what happens. A lot of it is just luck of the draw.
YankeesBleacherCreature
@FSF I really liked the Hicks signing at the time. There is still time for it to play out and justify the deal and then some more.
Dr2022
But according to Cashman today ,they consider 2017 a win for the franchise since they should’ve won ,except for the Houston Astros cheating scandal. What a joke
rememberthecoop
Mark, you should change “conversions” to “conversations” in Cashman’s quote.
Basketball geek
1) STANTON’S contract runs guaranteed to 2027. They have an option 2028 at 25m, with a guaranteed 10m BUYOUT , if not exercised( marlins pay that 10m, per trade) 2) JUDGE: Yankees will probably offer 30M/ 6yrs/ 180M YANKS WILL TIME STANTON & JUDGE —CONTRACT TO EXPIRE AT SAME TIME 2028… Yanks can continue with extensions or reset… 3) GARDNER? If they need Gardner, the Yanks season is not playoff bound. They have enough outfielder’s and versatility… Goodbye Brett!
Perksy
I think they will offer him 7 for around the $200m range.
Basketball geek
Yes, no more than 200M…Judge would be smart if he accepted Yankee offer if in that 180M to 200M range…Hey, they can win here if he and Stanton hit at same time…Donaldson, Gallo, Rizzo, Torres, Hicks, DJ would just have to be Ok, they can make a run in the Playoffs if they get pitching. …
Bjoe
It will be interesting to see what ridiculous contract the Yankees give Judge.
Basketball geek
I would be shocked if they give Judge more than 30MM PER YR. Would they go 32M to 35M per yr? They gave Cole 9yr/ $324M…. If he gets hurt during contract, they are hamstrung against the payroll getting other players…
jakec77
This is a tough spot. Based on age and injury history, I wouldn’t go above 5 years at $30 million per, and I’m not even sure that really makes sense.
But, he’s clearly going to make more than that, and he’s the face of the franchise.
No matter what the Yankees end up doing here, it’s going to be a mistake.
Basketball geek
I agree, but I think Yanks will offer 6 yrs/ 180M… Freddie got 7yrs/ 162M.. Judge is 2 years younger…
JoeBrady
I don’t think I have ever seen so much uncertainty. Certainly a top-tier talent, but I don’t think he’s averaged 110 games over the past four seasons.
$231M/7
FSF
I agree on the uncertainty part. As much as most Yankee fans like him, there is the injury history and we’re talking about his 30s here.
I’m not sure why you would give him a 231/7. Let’s say he gets his ARB ask, that leaves 6/210. You really think that a player that has played 75% of the games or so deserves $35M per year for 6 years beginning during his age 31 season?
jbigz12
I think you let him walk. When you committed a fortune to Stanton you pretty much tied yourself up. I don’t see Judge aging anymore gracefully. Let him go
FSF
The Yanks can afford all of that. It’s only a question of whether they should. Stanton I believe is “only” a $24M CBT hit so by today’s standards, it’s not a “fortune”. As for Judge, it’s easy enough to say “let him walk” but there are only about a half dozen guys or so in all of baseball that have his hitting talent, when he is available to play.
outinleftfield
Don’t do it Hal. Let him walk after 2022. Its his age 30 season and after this season its all downhill from here. Doesn’t mean Judge won’t still be good, but he will never again be as good as he was up to 2022.
Yankees76
The yankees are worth 6 billion so they need to stop being cheap. Us old yankees fans miss George
bcjd
I hope that Yanks give him $400mm over 10 years, and he promptly turns into a .1 WAR/yr pumpkin when the contract is signed and remains at that level for the duration of his long and healthy career.
Go Sox!
The Saber-toothed Superfife
I do not understand this, “clubhouse leader” stuff.
It is the manager’s job.
With a good manager, every player is a “clubhouse leader”!
poor leo
Let him walk… and sign Gardner for 5 years….he can play into his 50’s…Cashman sucks… 1 WS in 21 years with 200 million payrolls every year…. Can’t believe he still has a job… must have naked pics of Hal’s wife
poor leo
Cashman never held responsible for horrible signings or trades…disgraceful
poor leo
And now Cashman is all over the news complaining that the reason the Yankees didn’t win the World Series in 2017 is because the Astros cheated ..hey Brian, wake up… Yankees didn’t beat the Astros that year because your team scored 4 runs in the last three games they played them not because somebody was banging on the trashcan