9:55pm: The Padres currently consider the Pirates asking price on Reynolds to be “prohibitive,” writes Dennis Lin of the Athletic. That’s hardly a surprise, given the reported lofty asks the Bucs have sought in Reynolds talks with other teams.
9:21am: The Padres and Pirates have had recent trade discussions surrounding All-Star outfielder Bryan Reynolds, tweets USA Today’s Bob Nightengale. Young pitchers Chris Paddack and Ryan Weathers have both been mentioned as possible pieces going back to Pittsburgh, he adds.
It’s important to make a few key distinctions here. First and foremost, talks between the two parties don’t necessarily suggest that a deal is nigh — nor do they indicate that Pittsburgh is actively seeking to trade Reynolds. The Pirates have fielded Reynolds interest from more than a half-dozen teams since last summer alone, and he remains in camp with Pittsburgh.
Secondly, Paddack and Weathers are surely just two of a wide range of names that have been discussed. Even if both are of interest to the Bucs, additional pieces would assuredly need to be added. Paddack, for instance, is controlled for less time than Reynolds (three years to Reynolds’ four years) and is coming off a poor 2021 season that ended with an elbow injury. Weathers, meanwhile, is a former top-10 draft pick and top-100 prospect, but he was knocked around for a 5.32 ERA through 94 2/3 innings during last year’s rookie campaign. He’s controllable for another five years, at least.
As Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune tweets, San Diego’s interest in Reynolds is not a new revelation. However, if they are indeed discussing specific players that could go back to Pittsburgh, that’d mark a sign of progression over prior, more preliminary talks, Acee adds.
Reports last night indicated that the Padres are open to trading from both their starting pitching and catching surpluses in order to address their needs in the outfield. Padres skipper Bob Melvin just yesterday acknowledged that the lack of outfield depth is “a concern.” San Diego has been considering the possibility of playing top shortstop prospect CJ Abrams in the outfield early this season.
At the moment, the Padres have Trent Grisham and Wil Myers locked into outfield slots, but their left field situation is particularly dire. Newly acquired first baseman/outfielder Matt Beaty could see significant time there despite grading out as a poor defender. Switch-hitting utilityman Jurickson Profar is the other leading leading candidate, but he’s coming off a miserable 2021 season at the plate and has spent the bulk of his career playing the infield.
Reynolds is about as high-profile a target that Padres president of baseball operations A.J. Preller could explore. That’s par for the course for Preller, who typically explores any and all opportunities to acquire a marquee player, however slim the chances may be. Preller and Pittsburgh counterpart Ben Cherington have lined up on a couple of trades over the past 13 months or so, however, as Pittsburgh traded both Joe Musgrove and Adam Frazier to San Diego in separate deals. As such, it’s likely that Paddack, Weathers and quite a few other Padres youngsters have already been discussed in previous trade talks between the two sides. Those prior talks could serve as groundwork to an extent, but evaluations and opinions of young players can change rapidly over the course of even just a few months’ time.
Reynolds has also been aggressively pursued by the Marlins, dating back to last year’s trade deadline. Other teams known to have interest in the switch-hitting 27-year-old include the Mariners, Yankees, Braves and Brewers, among others. It’s easy to see why when looking at Reynolds’ career .290/.368/.490 batting line and, in particular, last year’s .302/.390/.522 output. Reynolds is controllable all the way through the 2025 season, though, and between his elite performance and that long-term control, the asking price on him figures to be sky-high.
For instance, Craig Mish and Barry Jacksonn of the Miami Herald recently reported that the Pirates sought both shortstop Kahlil Watson and right-hander Max Meyer in talks with the Fish. Both recent first-rounders rank among the sport’s top-50 overall prospects. In past trade talks with the Mariners, the Bucs targeted uber-prospect Julio Rodriguez as the starting point and sought additional pieces beyond him, per Ryan Divish of the Seattle Times. With regard to the Padres, those prior asks on Reynolds underscore that Paddack and Weathers would likely be seen as secondary pieces, at best.
As for the Padres’ general outfield search, if they’re not able to strike up an agreement with the Pirates regarding Reynolds, there’s no shortage of alternative paths for them to explore. The Twins are known to be seeking rotation help and have plenty of outfielders — both in terms of established players (Max Kepler) and young, MLB-ready options with upside (Trevor Larnach, Alex Kirilloff). The Yankees could use additional options on the mound and behind the plate, and they have a crowded outfield mix (which includes former Padres trade target Joey Gallo). The Angels are deep in young outfielders (e.g. Jo Adell, Brandon Marsh) and are always on the hunt for rotation help. The Mariners, similarly, could use another starter and have a deep collection of outfield talent on the 40-man roster. Preller could also look to Baltimore’s Cedric Mullins or Austin Hays, though Mullins in particular is a Reynolds-esque long shot to be moved.
Tom the ray fan
Preller about to give up whatever he has left of the once best farm system in the sport all to come to another mediocre season with a wild card finish at best. Most overrated GM by a long shot.
roob
Don’t know if he’s the most overrated but, sadly, I agree with the rest of your post.
I hate to see any team that is really TRYING to win keep failing. Tough place to be in a division with Dodgers and Giants.
A couple bad contracts (like many teams) and a lot of injuries have really hurt them.
I’m not a Padres fan but I hope they make the playoffs this year. At least, they’re really trying – more than a lot of teams.
seamaholic 2
Padres are better than the Giants (last year was a complete fluke for both teams, in opposite directions) but yeah, it’s interesting being in the same division as the Dodgers and all their money (and, to be fair, smarts). You just have to enjoy your baseball regardless of whether you can win your division, and be ready for the occasional bizarro season when you have a chance. Both the Giants and Rockies have had that kind of season in the last five years (the Giants actually won, the Rockies just tied), so it does happen. But in between you sort of have to adjust your expectations.
rememberthecoop
In what context are you suggesting that the Pads are better than the Giants? Not a SF fan, but I can see they are a very well run org. Farhan is one of the best if not THE best POBO. Sure it seems they got “lucky” with guys like Ruff, etc., but you make your own luck sometimes. He does by having a first-rate organization.
CJML
I got to agree with this one. I think the Tatis extension was stupid, questionable roster construction and pretty much gutted the farm with little to show.
Brew88
They locked up Tatis for just $26 mil a year. Seager is much inferior (though also injury prone) but making much more. Soto will get $50 mil. $26 mil will be a league average salary in 10 years and there are already 50 guys making that. Tatis is one of top 5 best players in league, that extension was brilliant.
CJML
They controlled tatis for 4 more years and he already had a long stint on the dl. I believe he is already out this year for significant time. If you don’t include his arb years he basically got market value. They could of waited a year two to see how it played out and been in a much better position financially for the next couple seasons. We will see. He is definitely a dynamic player.
Brew88
Yes they could have waited for arb year and signed him for 10 years and $550,000,000. Acuna has been injured (even more than Tatis) but his market value is similar to Tatis’, and just a notch below Soto who will get 10 years $500,000,000 next year. These are the economics of the game, like it or not
CJML
Ok. Who the heck has sniffed that kind of money? He’s getting top of the market ss money. Zero risk for Tatis very little reward for padres. But sure it was genius
CJML
We literally just saw what 3-4 of the best SS in the game will make over 10 years and it’s nowhere close to 550 million dollars. I highly doubt in 2-3 years the market will shift that much. Soto turned down 350 million but doesn’t mean he’s getting 500. He also needs to stay healthy and super productive for 3 more years.
Padres2019ha
Lol none of them were 23 years young doofus and none can go 40/40 every year when healthy
CJML
Ok Dufus. They literally all hit the league in their early 20’s and were extremely productive for 5-6 years. There is zero comparisons here. Lindor had 3 years of 30 plus bombs and 15+ sb.
Brew88
It’s widely known that Soto will ask for $50 mil/year. Correa just pocketed $35/year. Seager almost that. 50 guys are already making more than Tatis and by 2010 200 guys will be making more than Tatis, and Tatis might be hitting 60 hrs per year by then. But economics arguments aren’t my thing, it’s really insane how much everyone it making on MLB, even some of my colleague beer brewers who thrive at the concessions at Petco
Brew88
But all of those 3-4 SS are not as good as Tatis, and all are now making more per year (for many years forward) than Tatis.
CJML
That’s how arbitration works. Padres could of controlled tatis for 4 years at a fraction of the cost. 60 hr? Oh boy. Maybe he hits 100 and 75 sb? If Soto stays healthy and hits like he has been for his entire career, he will get a monster payday. Asking 50 million for 10 and getting it are not one and the same. Correa did get his 35 million but he was looking for 350 million. Tatis might be the greatest ss ever but he also might be an outfielder. I can’t wait to see him play in July.
wallabeechamp
They are all ‘as good’ as Tatis. None are as spectacular. That said, some of those other guys have kids that are more mature than El Niño.
Brew88
“4 years at a fraction of the cost”. Sure, but in 4 years they would have to pay him market value, nearly double what they signed him for. My point, supported by math, argues in favor of the extension not being so “stupid”
CJML
I just don’t get this thought process that tatis is somehow a guaranteed 500 million dollar player if he was heading into free agency at 26 or 27. Nobody has come near that kind of money or aav. Could he be a 38-40 million dollar a year player, maybe but I highly doubt 50. If you factor in his arb years they are already paying him top end ss money. That’s not even considering his already extensive injury history. I just don’t think it was a smart contract, I posted similar comments when the deal was struck. I think it looks even worse now.
Brew88
A couple years ago I wouldn’t have fathomed 10 years $33 mil/year for injury prone Seager either. But the markets are skyrocketing and if the Pads had any hope of keeping Tatis around for a long time, they were better off extending him (for less) than paying up the wazoo later (like the Nationals should have done to keep Soto). 60 HRs? Totally possible if you look at his HRs/ABs so far in his career. Just needs a full healthy season, but 40 HRs aint bad either
CJML
Pujols got 24 million at age 31 10 years ago. Stanton and Harper 25 aav. I think the Seager contract was insane. Correa was forced to take a short term deal. Lindor was on track to be one of the greatest ss of all time when he signed his deal. I just don’t see a monster swing in 2-3 years. Trout who was the best player in the world for 8 years got 35 AAV. Acuna is under team control until 2029 for 12.5 million aav and team options for 17.
SDHotDawg
Let’s remember that Tatis is flashy, fast, and is a phenomenal offensive force. BUT – he’s really not a very good defensive SS; way too many Errors.
Plus, he’s showing himself to be injury prone, and that goes back to his minor league days.
Brew88
We’re not going back in time to compare old contracts are we? Scherzer just signed 3 years $43.3 mil per year. Tatis is 4 years will demand far more than that, fortunately Pads have him for just $26 mil
Brew88
@dawg, you could say same about Acuna but you don’t. Tatis made a lot of errors last year, but also makes plays most SS don’t. But in this discussion about market value, our opinions don’t really matter much.
SDHotDawg
Because I’m not talking about Acuna. But Tatis was at or near the bottom of the league in Errors. I love the guy, but I have to be realistic, too.
Padres2019ha
Garbage Take on Tatis. Not only is a top 3 player but is also the face of baseball. He’ll easily be worth every penny and prob has already made his franchise half that the last 3 years from sales. Is he immature and made some massive mistakes and set the tram back this year, absolutely. But Padre baseball is alive and well thanks to him
Padres2019ha
Errors lol he’s 23 and makes up for the errors w other plays. Once he stops making mistakes which are mental, he’ll be one of the best
Deleted Userr
Garbage takes are your game bruh. You liked the Hosmer signing when it happened.
DrDan75
Tatis’ errors are overwhelmingly throwing errors. That should work itself out over time. And his latest injury is not baseball related.
SDHotDawg
Garbage take? He makes a lot of errors. That is a fact. You must have missed the part about “I love the guy.”
Typical Padres uber-homer who trolls his fellow Padres fans for the slightest bit of honest critique.
SDHotDawg
“Work itself out over time?” How? He’s been playing SS since he was old enough to throw. I hope you’re right, but the throw is half the play.
An injury is still an injury.
CJML
Short term contract for one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball. It’s apples and oranges. I was referencing long term contracts for the games superstars. Nobody is sniffing 50 million and all of them had better track records than Tatis. Betts another one at 30 million. Tatis is paid quite well, I don’t see a giant amount of upside for SD.
damascusj
In 10 years he most likely would be at 50m a year
Vegasnightlife
@CJML what the hell are you smoking? “Very little reward for padres”… that’s a lot of bs… it gives the padres exposure, increased ticket sales, increased merchandise sales, etc. The Padres will make their money back and more just having him on the team.
SDHotDawg
@Vegas …
So when do we loyal fans get our “reward” of a winning team? Personally, IDGAF about exposure or merchandise sales.
Padres2019ha
Ryan, checkout our roster in 2017 before we signed Hosmer. Asuaje, Spangenberg, Solarte was the starting infield.. For god sale Jose Pirela was on the squad! The fact they signed ANY free agent was awesome at the time. Its too bad he was worst than even the nerds like you thought.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
So…..how much am I going to have to pay for a hotdog?
Maybe MLB is failing…… because most people can’t afford to go to a game or really have much of a goodtime because it is too expensive to even park…
You USED TO SEE boyscout troups sitting behind home plate, when baseball was truly loved…..
Now you get to see Billy Crystal and other overy wealthy people…..
The perversely wealthy people are the ones who are ruining baseball.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
Maybe the people of this generation are just a bunch of total selfish apple holes……
Because I am sure there were rich people around when I was a kid….. I’m guessing they were just INFINITELY more cooler than people like Billy Crystal and his peers.
Yeah, I said it. A whole bunch of apple holes.
They talk the talk but do not walk the walk.
Remember? Its a kids game. Those wealthy people are BASICALLY BULLIES who don’t afford our culture the same things they had when they were kids.
Spoiled, rotten BULLIES.
Javia135
What did Miracle Max do to baseball?
Padres2019ha
Liking your own comment again w your other profile red rooster Ryan removepitcherswins lol clown
libertyfighter
You are not evaluating Preller on the sorry state of the Padres Organization when he took over. The 25 man roster as well as the farm system were worse than an expansion Team. An Organization that for 15 years [among the lowest payroll in MLB] was allowed to decay by the previous two Owners. There were 2 decent prospects in the farm system [one was drafted the year before and the other had arm issues].
The Padres have acquired Darvish, Clevinger, Nola, Musgrove, Grisham, Snell and Cronenworth with many of those prospects you suggest Preller wasted. Most of those prospects had nowhere to play on the Padre 26 man roster and would have surely been lost to the rule v draft. Preller traded for Tatis, a generational talent that could one day be a Hall of Famer. Preller turned those prospects into 7 very good to all-star level players, plus Tatis. The Padres had no all-star level players when Preller took over.
Preller is widely panned for the Wil Myers trade, but at the time it made sense to trade for the former ROY and number one prospect in MLB and try to build the Team around him, as the Padres had no MLB player like that in 2014.
The Hosmer contract was really bad, but do we really know if that was Preller’s doing or could it have been an over zealous Owner who was inexperienced in the free agent market pushing for that signing? The Padres had to overpay free agents to come to San Diego back then, not anymore.
Lastly, the Padre Farm System is still very good, it’s top prospects are bonafide above average to all-star potential players and should be MLB ready in the next 2 years. Gore looks to be finding his mojo and there are a lot of prospects at A ball or below that are very promising. The Padres are rumored to be signing the top international player next year, a generational catcher out of Venezuela. This next wave will be hitting the Padre roster around 2024 which will allow Preller to further adjust the roster with minimal salary increases. A major difference with this next wave of prospects is that Preller won’t be starting with a roster that does not have above average to elite players. The 40 man roster is very competitive now.
After 2022, the Padres drop $33 million in salary and another $30 million after 2023 so Preller will easily be able to fortify the 26 man roster. I think 2022 will be the beginning of a very long run of playoff baseball for the San Diego Padres. Has Preller made mistakes? He sure has. Has Preller been among the best Padre GM’s in its history? Yes he has and his star is still rising.
SDHotDawg
@libertyfighter …
You are dead wrong in your Preller love. First and foremost, the Padres had a very good farm when he took over. Secondly, it has taken him 7 full years to beat that “expansion team” roster’s 75 wins. (Last year, Preller’s Padres beat it by 2 games, with 77 wins). That’s not “success.”
Uber-homers are bad enough, but I junderstand where they’re coming from. But, having a man-crush on a failed GM I just don’t understand at all. Especially when he’s been given 8 years and the biggest budget in team history by far.
damascusj
No, the padres farm system when preller took over, aside from trea Turner was I jury prone and bad
SDHotDawg
Do your homework. They were ranked as high as fourth, depending on your publication of choice.
Billy Baroo
SD’s farm was consistently rated Top 10 in 2014. Check out this handy chart:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zRLiZVwleOveYbsp-m…
Average of the 2014 rankings = 8.
Preller may not have believed in the SD prospects, but lots of other people did.
SDHotDawg
@Billy Baroo …
Thanks for poosting that link! All I had were the individual site links.
Deleted Userr
@libertyfighter the Hosmer’s contract was 100% Preller’s doing. And you can’t use the prospects running into the Rule 5 draft as an excuse when Preller is giving away roster spots to Campy and Weathers for 4 PA’s/1.1mIP at the end of 2020. And Tatis was not a top prospect when he was traded. He was a complete lottery ticket. The thing about lottery tickets is sometimes they pay off.
SDHotDawg
You want an example of Preller wasting a roster spot, look no further than Javy Guerra. For three years now!
Deleted Userr
Yeah. That too. The “They would have lost those players to the Rule 5 draft” excuse works only if the team has been good at roster management in the past which they haven’t. Want 40-man spots? DFA Guerra and don’t call up Weathers. That’s two right there (Campusano would have been Rule 5 eligible this offseason).
SportsFan0000
Preller is gutting the farm system and trading everything in sight.
Former Padres prospects are key contributors around the league in Tampa, Cleveland, Minnesota, Pittsburgh.
Preller is spreading the Padres farm system wealth everywhere he trades.
The Dodgers and Giants win and compete for World Series Championships every year by consistently making MUCH SMARTER Front Office Decisions than the Padres.
The Dodgers have new farm system promoted players in the Rookie of the Year competition almost every year.
It would be foolish and very damaging to the Padres if Preller were to trade
top prospects: SS CJ Abrams, catcher Campusano,
OF Robert Hassell III. Those players are part of the Padres core contending team going forward.
SS Abrams and catcher Campusano are ready to start in the major leagues now. OF Hassell will be ready by 2023
Tatis Junior is on the IL for a good part of this season.
Tatis or Abrams may end up in the OF.
Abrams is the better defender @ SS.
If Preller must make a move, then sign Conforto to a short term deal with incentives to play LF.
The Padres payroll will be coming down next year.
The Ownership is well funded and can afford to exceed the luxury tax
for 1 year if necessary.
As Bob Melvin remarked when he was hired by the Padres
He couldn’t believe that there were 30,000+ fans at Petco Park for a middle of the week series against the Oakland A’s when he managed the A’s last year. The Padres are a moneymaker when the product on the field is competitive. The team can afford a 1 year competitive balance tax.
GarryHarris
Just because the periodicals say that the farm was good doesn’t mean it really is. Writers know nothing except for what they tell themselves on all subject matters.
SDHotDawg
So, all of those lists and rankings are meaningless if they don’t fit your particular narrative? That’s some pretty intense confirmation bias.
ohyeadam
Great farm systems never equaled great, or even good, teams
SportsFan0000
Tampa Rays disprove that theory.
Great farm systems will get you in the playoffs and competing for championships.
Rays spend less than half of what the Padres spend in payroll
and are in contention virtually every year.
SDHotDawg
Uh … the Rays, Dodgers, and Cardinals would disagree. That’s just not a true statement.
Poster formerly known as . . .
MLB Pipeline just ranked the Padres’ farm system 17th.
The Astros’ farm was ranked 28th preseason 2020 and 29th preseason 2021 by MLB Pipeline. They won the ALDS in 2020 and the AL pennant in 2021.
Do they give out rings and a trophy for Best Farm System, Tom?
bucsfan0004
Paddack? Weathers? Not interested
bhambrave
“.. Paddack and Weathers would likely be seen as secondary pieces, at best.”
THE downvoter
Reading, a lost skill with most of the commenters here.
Hello, Newman
It’s ironic that you both are scorning the original commenter about understanding what is to be read.. He didn’t state anything about the two being a “primary piece”, orarguing with the piece. He is just stating that he’s not interested in the two players mentioned. It’s merely an opinion.
THE downvoter
…and a poor one at that, Mr Presumptuous.
Hello, Newman
.. Cool sophistry, Mr Comprehension.
You think taking people down your negative abyss, will help you climb out?
THE downvoter
Quite presumptuous today, arent you? Here’s the facts: you have swung and missed, and missed by a mile. Time to work on the second spitter theory, instead.
bucsfan0004
I’m still trying to find where it says “secondary pieces at best”.
THE downvoter
^^
Here you go Mr Presumptuous. Case closed. Irony.
Hello, Newman
I swung and miss, need to work on my second spitter theory, and was involved in a case that was recently closed.
This has been a day.. been a day.
Now, irony on top of it?? Woah.
Uhh-ohh, I entered the weird narcissistic algorithm internet twilight zone again.. Gotta put down the phone, and layoff the mlbtr. Maybe go on a run listen to some Jeff Airplane.. better make it Zep.
THE downvoter
Nice attempt at supterfuge. Sadly, that fart is still lingering.
bucsfan0004
Not interested in Paddack or Weathers as tertiary pieces either. Brubaker and Keller are just as ineffective, with slightly more promise/service time
damascusj
Paddock and weathers(especially weathers) were the focal pieces in many trade discussions between the padres and bucs
SalaryCapMyth
I see it bucsfan’s way on this. Reynolds value is just silly high. His years of control and his productivity is huge. When you start talking about trading for Reynolds and you see names like Paddock and Weather’s names first mentioned, my first thought was are those two guys carrying Abrams and Campusano’s bags to Pittsburg?
I’d even be a litte surprised if it didn’t take more. It’s not just about Reynolds value. Pittsburgh is completely unmotivated to move Reynolds. I’ve read statements saying several times how they aren’t interested in trading Reynolds. If you’re going to try and change that, the cost to do so is going to be ugly.
SouthernBuc
Thank you SalaryCapMyth. As an admitted Pirate fan I think you explained it well. This is not just a ‘is the return’ fair situation which in itself would be very high, it is a ‘fair return plus more to convince you to take this risk’ return. From the Mariner, Yankee, and now Padres rumors if I wear a Pirate hat I say no way – no need to trade him now and when I put on the other teams hat looking at what is being asked I say the same NO. A player like Reynolds is just about never traded for exactly those reasons. I would think the only example might be 2 contenders where one desperately needs an outfielder and the other a top of rotation pitcher. Then the trade is 2 known, young, controllable assets and both teams feel they need the other player more than their own.
SDFriars
Is it me or does AJ pay a premium for players just because they participate as an “All-Star”.?Its more about making a splash for the sake of positive PR than actually assembling a competitive team.
fred-3
He buys high on players, only for them to get to San Diego and struggle because their coaching staffs (before Melvin) suck. Even Machado was mediocre his first year.
SDFriars
Definitely the king of buying high.
stymeedone
Couldn’t have anything to do with playing against a new league of pitchers, and having to learn tendencies. Must have been the coaching Machado received. No other player has ever taken a step back when changing leagues.
SDHotDawg
@Fred … So, you already know Melvin and a new coaching staff is going to make “the” difference before a single game has been played?
Are you not aware that this is already the third time (some say fourth) Preller has completely rebuilt the organization from top to bottom?
You are wrong
Well the Hosmer signing was a joke, and the Myers acquisition was certainly questionable, but I think overall he’s done ok. Hosmer is an anchor and if given truth strum, he’d admit that was a huge mistake.
SDFriars
Everyone at the time knew that Hosmer was a mistake, I dont know what he saw there. He has a history of paying for peak performance of players only to watch them regress.
28rings
here come all the “why aren’t the Yankees trying to trade for him? Fire Cashman, Hal sucks!!” people… who, if the Yankees did trade for him and gave up Anthony Volpe they’d get even madder.
THE downvoter
I suspect the Yankees are leary of the Pirates in trades. Yankees have been Pirate’s trade wench many times, back to the days of Xavier Nady and Damaso Marte.
28rings
Taillon and Holmes ???
Scott Costello
As a Yankees fan, I’d like to move on from Cashman yes! But more because any trades/signings he makes never seem to work out unless they are low level moves. Trades like for Voit, Hicks and Tauchman work out great for a year or so which is cool But eventually the guy falters and becomes an issue that we hang on to for to long and get nothing in return.
However, anytime he trades for a pitcher or a young guy with good metrics it almost never works out. Sure the prospects he trades really never pan out either (some exceptions of course) .
The dude works hard and explores everything, but to me his “magic” is gone. Sometimes it is time to move on and go in a different direction.
Almost forgot to make my point…if the Yankees somehow make the trade for Reynolds, it won’t work out for Reynolds or the prospects they trade.. I’m becoming way to cynical!
28rings
they got Peralta and the next Luke Voit (Connor Cannon) for Tauchman
junkmale
They wanted Watson and Meyer from Miami, but will settle for Paddack and Weathers from San Diego. Further proof that the Pirates can be talked down and into most any trade.
seamaholic 2
They obviously won’t settle for Paddack and Weathers, like the article you’re commenting on says.
kozy21
I guarantee you any trade with the Padres starts with Abrams and Campusano/Gore.
junkmale
Campusano and Gore I could see. San Diego would be mental to trade Abrams.
Deleted Userr
Why would the Pirates want Campy after they just drafted a catcher at #1 overall last summer?
schnoah
Davis defense is terrible. He has the bat that could facilitate a move to first base.
Robertowannabe
His defense is not terrible. His biggest knock was framing coming into the draft and several draft experts were saying that is not surprising as many catchers don’t get a lot of coaching when it comes to framing and it can be taught. They also have Rodriguez so can hit an has the defense too.
SportsFan0000
That will never happen. Abrams and Campusano are “untouchable”.
Deleted Userr
So was Moncada
SDFriars
I think they wish they could have back the likes of Trea Turner, Cal Quantril, Max Fried, Franmil Reyes, Ty France and many others over the years. IF they would just hold on and learn to develop their talent they pick up, they would be in a far better situation.
junkmale
Wasn’t Turner the “TBA” add-in to that convoluted Wil Myers trade? Oof.
seamaholic 2
Maybe, but Trea was a star prospect at the time. He was a major part of the negotiation. Wil Myers was at the time thought to be one of the best young hitters in the game, hard as that is to believe. The Rays, as they do, knew the truth, although they didn’t get much out of that deal either. The Nats stepped in and won it.
Sideline Redwine
Nats won that one by a mile. As a Rays fan, I still dream about Trea in St Pete’s…
Wadz
Yes it was an incredible Nats heist.. but lets be clear that Trea at the time of the deal wasnt a “star” prospect.. He was recently taken with the 12th pick and had a decent MILB debut before being traded. A good and interesting prospect.. not yet star.
He basically kept hitting and never looked back after being traded.. but its not like he was a top 10 or even top 50 at the time he was dealt.. Just a high upside elite speed- hit tool SS people were skeptical could hit for any power..
Trading Trea when the Pads did was still dumb.. but wasnt exactly that cut and dry.. Trea was constantly overlooked over the other top SS prospects at the time..
Samuel
@ Wadz;
At the time of that trade Trea might not have been a “star” prospect in the media and the free/semi-free Internet scouting reports fans read, but MLB FO’s salivated over him.
Immediately after Rizzo stole him there were people in other ML FO’s that were making public statements to the effect that if they knew he was available they would have happily given up far more then Preller got back.
The offshoot was that starting that day MLB FO people were standing in line to trade with Preller. OK, he lucked into Tatis and had a few trades where teams had excesses at a position so they traded to get a piece that SD had and maybe “lost” the trade…..but it opened up playing time for a guy they had that turned out to be better. For the most part Prellers trades have been poor, and he hasn’t done much in 7 (or whatever) years to build an infrastructure of coaches and instructors that can bring ML players along. In short, he’s all sizzle, little steak.
Billy Baroo
If I’m remembering the story right, one of Preller’s scouting mentors didn’t think Turner had the arm to play short. For all the backlash against analytics, scouts can make some d*a* decisions based on a handful of plays.
Robertowannabe
Trea was a first year player and not sure if one could label him as a star yet at that level. Turned into one though.
SDHotDawg
He was the PTBNL because of the rules, not because he was a throw-in. “Know before you blow,” as they say.
Deleted Userr
As SDHotDawg said, Turner was included as a PTBNL because of the league rules at the time, not because the Padres didn’t see him as valuable. It’s my understanding that including a just-drafted player as a PTBNL in a trade that was finalized before they were eligible to be traded wasn’t all that uncommon before the rules were changed. Just Turner was the only time a first rounder was traded in that manner and the only time the PTBNL’s identity got leaked out and their org was forced to awkwardly keep him around for 6 months even though not a soul didn’t know he had been traded.
closetball
A complete top to bottom rebuild would require him firing himself. I’d be all for it. Last year 4 games under .500. The mid 70’s Padres revisited.
O’sfan222
Mullins for Gore Merrill and paddack coming from a orioles fan who is tired of losing lol
junkmale
Gore and Paddack aren’t going to change Baltimore’s losing ways.
Sideline Redwine
If the O’s could get that return? Hardly a bad trade.
Inside Out
What a horrible trade for Orioles.
JerseyShoreScore
Padres still have some real nice young talent and prospects to make a trade.
Not sure if Bob Nightengale is just making stuff up, again. However, Chris Paddack has not been good in a couple years now and seems like a lose-lose option for the Pirates. If he stinks, he is worthless. If Paddack is good, he quickly prices himself out of Pittsburgh. Paddack is closer to being a non-tender option than a top trade chip. If I hear the name Chris Paddack from AJ Preller, I immediately disconnect the call.
Weathers is among the bottom tier options that San Diego can offer up for a high demand talent in Reynolds. Based on the rumored ask from the Marlins, these Padres rumors seem absurd.
Sideline Redwine
…”starting point” as the article states.
mlb1225
That’s an awful starting point. If your talks for Reynolds dont open with at least 1 top 30 prospect, you’re not trying hard enough.
Samuel
mlb1225;
I’ve read you., You’re a sharp guy. Think about this as you read about Abrams, Hassell and their imminent rise to superstardom…..
Preller has had uncredentialled Internet sites saying that he’s just a master at prospect finding. One publication said he had put together the top farm system in history 4-5 years ago.
So who are the Padres “superstar” [sic] players? Machado and Tatis. They didn’t come up from Preller farm system. Has that system even developed an Ace pitcher….or a consistent #2 or #3 in 7 years……let alone a great one? 2 years ago in this comment section Gore was untouchable – on his way to the HOF. Now it’s Abrams and Hassell.
I’m very skeptical of Abrams, Hassell, and the other overpublicized Padres prospects. Those are their top 2 prospects, and there’s a very good chance that neither is ever as good as Reynolds is today.
Carrington is listening. Fine. Now, if you had to bet on Preller or Carrington in a trade…….
bhambrave
I’d love to see the Braves trade for Reynolds, but I think their farm is too depleted of quality prospects. Another consequence of not re-signing Freddie.
You are wrong
Flags fly forever
bhambrave
Yes they do, but that has nothing to do with letting Freddie go. Keeping Freddie and trading for Reynolds would increase the chances of Atlanta getting more flags than just getting Olson.
Ha-Seong Kim
Paddack, Weathers, Merril, Rosier
Get it done
Padres2019ha
Merrill looks legit
Ha-Seong Kim
So does our need for another outfielder
seamaholic 2
There’s just no way the Padres can swing a deal for Reynolds without Abrams being involved. An elite up-the-middle player with four years of cheap control? No way. And if I’m Preller, I seriously consider it, because Abrams will never play short in San Diego. But the Pirates have a loaded, deep farm, and they will be completely uninterested in offers based on quantity. It’s quality or nothing.
SportsFan0000
Never happen. Tatis could end up in CF since he is injury prone @ SS.
Abrams is a better SS than Tatis. Jr.
SDHotDawg
@SportsFan0000 … I’ve been predicting that for a while. I don’t see Tatis staying at SS, especially with his injuries, propensity to throw the ball away, and CJ Abrams knocking on the door. The only question is, will Tatis accept a move gracefully, like a pro?
I can really see us in 10 years talking about the “greatest Center Fielder of all time,” Fernando Tatis!
Brew88
Meanwhile, Abrams has been taking reps in CF
SDHotDawg
Two days ago, Melvin said there were “no plans” for Abrams to take any outfield reps. Interesting.
Brew88
Lack of action on picking up additional OF/INF help changed his mind I guess. Plus, Abrams is being quite convincing and is confident beyond his years, I think he’s influencing a shift in opinion about his readiness in general, and willingness to play OF if needed there
SDHotDawg
Could be. But it takes more than “willingness” to play any position on a ML baseball team.
SportsFan0000
From a guy who was forced to be creative in low budget Oakland
and playing infielders in the OF and outfielders in the infield?!
jtkuch
Not even halfway close
Mjm117
Bucs fans “ if the a team wants Reynolds then they have to give up 4 top 50 overall prospects plus their salaries for the next 10 years in addition to paying for the entire MLB payroll, if not, then no deal. Reynolds is too important when we can possibly begin contending in 3-4 years. “
jtkuch
Reynolds is absolutely worth a massive haul. Elite bat at an up the middle position with 4 years of control. Those kind of players almost never get traded because teams don’t want to part with the value that they are justifiably worth.
Sorry your Marlins couldn’t have him for the few buckets of baseballs and dubble bubble they were offering.
SportsFan0000
I doubt that any team meets the Pirates ask for Reynolds
Brew88
The Angels offered Trout and Ohtani, Pirates said “nah”
brucenewton
Reynolds is probably worth the asking price for a contender with CF needs. Granted if someone needs a starting CF, they probably aren’t a true contender. Padres might be the only team willing to pay that price.
thickiedon
Ahem, Astros
Samuel
Astros have 2 young CF’s. They have a few veterans that will be leaving due to high salary demands in the next few years. They’re not going to deplete their farm system over one player – no matter how good he is. Their mission is sustainable contention….which they’ve been excelling at.
thickiedon
The Astros were in the market for a CF at the trade deadline. Myers, McCormick, and Siri wound up filling the role but Baker doesn’t view them or Leon as the solution right now. I don’t think the Astros have the trade capital for Reynolds, honestly, but they would have if a decent SS had been signed.
Brew88
Steve, we’re these recent discussions prior or after the Beaty trade?
CNichols
They have to still be interested in OF, Beaty helps their depth but doesn’t fully fix their OF problem.
Brew88
Agreed, to get better they need to improve at LF. but since the article doesn’t make it clear if this is breaking news, or just the same news that they’ve been interested in Reynolds for a while.
Because Clevenger seems healthy (though his performance might be suspect/rusty) and with Paddack, Snell, and Darvish all reporting healthy, and with the signing of Martinez and him (and Gore) passing the eye-test so far, and with Morejon returning mid-season, the team seems to be feeling deep in SP again, which is great.
It wouldn’t surprise me if they deal Weathers or Paddack, but not both. One of them doesn’t get Reynolds and it would be foolish (even for Preller) to deal any of their top 5 prospects at this time (especially when 2 or 3 of them will be starting OFers for Pads in a year or two). I doubt the Pirates would trade Reynolds for a bunch of lower level prospects, but they did with Musgove and Hudson Head hasn’t turned many heads with his 213 ave last year for the Marauders – what a great trade by Preller!.
The Pads have to move one of 4 catchers soon, but it won’t likely be Campusano as there’s growing confidence that he’ll be ready to step in and start in 2023. I just don’t see how they work a deal for Reynolds, but a mid-season OF addition on a short term contract seems likely
SDHotDawg
The numbers on guys returning from TJ #2 are not very promising. And Morejon hasn’t really been a starter since the first half of his AA season; he hasn’t gone more than 4 innings since then, AND he’s coming off TJ.
The optimism is nice, but unrealistic. We really don’t have any legitimate SP depth.
Brew88
That was not my optimism, I was expressing why the Padres are more optimistic. So sure, there are concerns. But they added a SP and they are healthier than last year. That alone improves depth at SP, no?
Of course, good health can’t be counted on, and Paddack and Weathers can continue to suc and no team can ever have rnough SP, but I’d rather they send Weathers back to AAA. I don’t see Paddack getting better than he is now. They’d be better off giving Gore a shot and parting with Paddack (if they get value in return) because going with Paddack means Gore is back in AAA and there he’s not helping with ML depth?.
SDHotDawg
Having depth also means you’ve got a couple of starters in AAA; either journeyman ML or near-ML ready. We still don’t have that. We added ONE guy, Nick Martinez, who is a fringey ML pitcher at best. I really don’t want to see any “bullpen games” in April, or Arrieta and Vasquez signings because we don’t have any SPs.
As for health, that’s exactly why we need depth. Clevinger may be able to throw, but can he pitch well after TJ #2? I’d like to see Gore start in AAA, but, like you said, if we can get some value for Paddack, it’s all good. But even Paddack (elbow!) and Snell (groin) finished the year with injuries.
Brew88
I know I know. But most teams lack these depth assurances. Weathers at AAA gives them some options, and maybe Martinez does okay as 5th starter. He seems durable so that’s a plus.
another starter (ex Manaea?) would have been nice but at some point they also have to assume that the commitments to Darvish, Musgrove, Snell, Clevenger and Martinez will pay off in combination with developing Gore, Weathers and Morejon. Then there’s Paddack.
I hate bullpen games too, but as my 10 year old son (Braves fan) just told me, get with it dad the game is changing bullpen games are actually strategy now.
SDHotDawg
Look at our minor league system. Just a few months ago I was on here hoping he’d trade for or sign some minor league starting pitchers (AA or above), because our cupboard was bare even in the high minors. How do you think we ended up with Arrieta and Vasquez? And Knehr from AA? And Morejon a) isn’t a starter, and b) is going to be coming off of TJ.
I admit it’s looking much better this year, but bullpen games aren’t a strategy, they’re an emergency.
Brew88
if I were Will Smith I’d slap you for insulting my son! But I’m not like that….
But seriously, maybe it’s not a strategy, but rather a necessity in today’s game, not always an emergency, The Dodgers are claiming a rotation that includes Heaney and Tyler Anderson, and two other injury prone guys, we’ll see how stable that is over 162. I don’t see a lot of depth beyond Gonsolin, Pepiot and Miller aren’t ready, May is out. So some bullpen games are in their future too. If that organization, with all it’s wealth of money and wisdom, can’t field a full-time rotation supported by depth, on opening day, then I think we’re in an new era yes..
SDHotDawg
We’ll see how it shakes out, that’s for sure. But, you know Friedman is the guy that set up the Rays, right? Those SABR guys don’t believe in “starters” or “closers,” primarily because they never played and don’t understand players.
I’d rather see two long guys “piggyback.” Having to rely on bullpen games is not just not sustainable.
jtkuch
Paddack? Hard pass. Has even less control than Reynolds. Weathers might work as a tertiary piece with a much more valuable headliner, aka Abrams or Hassell.
amk1920
Weathers and Paddack? That’s laughable. Maybe as 3-4 pieces in the deal behind Hassell and another top 5 prospect
Sideline Redwine
Yep. Just as the article states lol.
Captain Dunsel
If the Padres trade for Reynolds it will be a wrap for their farm system.
Bruin1012
Seriously what would the Pads have to give up for Reynolds? What would Ben take for his stud centerfielder from the Padres I mean a realistic trade maybe Hassell, Gore, Paddack and Weathers. It’s probably fair for Reynolds but it depletes the MLB pitching too much for Pads imo. It’s going to take an offer like that though for Ben to move Reynolds.
ukpadre
Lol that’s not a realistic trade at all.
Bruin1012
Yes it is it would take that kind of return to get the Pirates attention anything less and they just laugh and hang up the phone.
Javia135
What do YOU think Reynolds is worth Bruin1012?
Captain Judge99
I was thinking Hassell, Campusano, Paddack and Weathers for Reynolds. Which definitely seems fair. Padres should pounce on that if it’s offered.
Robertowannabe
Considering what the Pirates reportedly asked from other teams, this would not work., They do not need catching.. Hassell would be a piece that they would want. They would want a top pitching prospect or two in return. That is what they asked for from other teams.
Deleted Userr
Why would the Pirates trade for Campy after they drafted Henry Davis at 1/1 that’s a terrible argument.
Robertowannabe
Plus they have Endy Rodriguez sitting behind Davis. No need for a catcher at all. They want top end pitching.
sch1989 2
Chance Davis moves off catcher and Endy can play all over the diamond.
Central Valley
How did the Giants let Reynolds go? We sure could use a talent like his right now..
onbase_plus_hugging
Yeah, some trades just hurt, and McCutchen for Reynolds sure is one of them.
a_giant_donut
evans is an idiot
bbatardo
I wonder if this would do it? Weathers, Campusano, James Wood and Jackson Merrill. 3 of the Padres top 6 prospects and Weathers who used to be at the top.
jtkuch
Most likely not, remember that the Padres system has been gutted over the past few years, so 3 top 6 prospects from them isn’t the same as say 3 top 6 Marlins prospects. They aren’t getting Reynolds without including Abrams and/or Hassell and then some.
Simm
Padres system while not what it was is top heavy. Their top 4 prospects could all be considered elite prospects. Plus I think Merrill will shoot up the rankings very quickly perhaps woods as well. Getting 3 of the padres top 6 would be a haul. Obviously the actual 3 would make a difference. My guess is the padres would do 2 of them mixed in with paddack and or weathers.
I’d take the padres top 6 prospects up against just about anyone’s including the marlins.
mlb1225
Try at least Hassell, Abrams, Capusano, and one of Gore, Paddack, or Weathers. Pirates want 3 top 100 guys with at least 2 as top 50 guys.
Simm
Zero chance that happens. Which makes a trade unlikely.
CNichols
Yeah there’s no way you can trade 4 top 100 prospects in a single deal like that for 1 player. If that goes wrong you’re ruined.
mlb1225
Exactly. Back at the trde deadline, the Pirates wanted the Marlins top 3 prospects, which are some mix of Max Meyer, Edward Cabrera, Sixto Sanchez, and JJ Bleday at the time. As Adams said, the Pirates also checked in on the availability of J-Rod, but I also heard they were looking into Nolevi Marte.
Ha-Seong Kim
@mlb1225
Are you going to cry when the pirates give up Reynolds for only weathers paddack + lol?
Bruin1012
That may of happened before Ben but there is a new sheriff in Pittsburg he won’t trade Reynolds for less then a kings ransom and why should he they aren’t goi g anywhere this year so you will have to blow Pittsburg away to trade him.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
I think that’s too high. I’ll agree that any trade should start with Abrams, but I think you overshot it.
SportsFan0000
That will never happen. Abrams is going to be a star. Ditto with Campusano and Hassel. It would be the last trade Preller ever made with the Padres
before he was fired.
SDHotDawg
@SportsFan0000 …. That’s such a typical homer take. You KNOW these guys are going to be stars? Seriously. Would you like some names of our “future stars” and “can’t miss” prospects as predicted by our “objective” fan base over the years? Come on, man. You know better than that.
Bruin1012
Agreed prospects are suspects until they prove differently.
Deleted Userr
BTV says Pirates say no by $39.5m
SportsFan0000
I doubt the Padres will pay those inflated prices for Reynolds.
Padres would say no.
Deleted Userr
lol
SportsFan0000
Padres would be better off signing Michael Conforto to an incentives laden “pillow contract” to play LF for 1-2 years.
moviemang80
That would be an awful return for Reynolds. Padres do not have the pieces.
Hope the Pirates don’t short themselves on Reynolds. CF is a premium. He’s one of the few good ones out there. At his price, there should be overpay for him or keep him.
SportsFan0000
Reynolds is not worth all those future Padres stars.
I can’t blame the Pirates for shooting for the moon.
I don’t see any MLB team with a brain selling their entire future and farm system
for 1 player like Reynolds.
If Cherrington lowers his price, then he may be able to make a deal.
Otherwise, he is stuck with Reynolds and the risk that Reynolds suffers a serious injury and he gets nothing but huge arbitration raises busting his low Pirates budget.
Bruin1012
Once again Ben isn’t stuck with Reynolds he wants to keep him build the next Pirate contender around him. He will only trade him if he deems it a win. As for getting stuck what if Abrams blew out his Achilles and was the never same it works both ways so therefore that doesn’t even come into play on either side.
Mikehoncho69
I don’t want either of those bums. If they trade him I’m done with the pirates
Buccrazy
You are right. No reason to trade him. At some point you have to say we are going with these guys (Reynolds, Hayes, bednar, O’Neil cruz, roansy, Henry davis, etc). Never going to be close dealing your best controlables during a rebuild
Bruin1012
Maybe the Pads should explore Mullins in Baltimore he will cost a little less. Maybe Baltimore would trade Mullins for Hassell, Gore and maybe one other decent prospect. The Orioles probably won’t be interested in Campusano but maybe a deal around Hassell could be made?
bobtillman
Much more likely scenario.
ArmChairGM-
Preller is great at acquiring talent and building up a farm system. He is not great at building a mlb team though. Just looks at stats and plugs and plays and hopes the player will play the same. Doesn’t factor in other parts.
THE downvoter
Before bypassing the story, scrolling to the bottom to comment, you did see this was sourced by Nightengale? He is a hack. His hit rate on accuracy has to be below the mendoza line. When a few more reputable beat writers pick this up or validate, then Ill consider it has legs. Otherwise, its click bait.
Deleted Userr
BTV says Abrams, Weathers and Wood gets it done.
seamaholic 2
That sounds like the right ballpark, yeah.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Sounds pretty fair to me.
You are wrong
Too bad Paddack can’t spin it.
Devlsh
My thoughts exactly, Armchair. They seem to find and sign talent but then can’t develop it. Then Preller gives it away for questionable returns and signs guys to contracts that aren’t justified by the results (Myers, Hosmer, Profar, Kim, Pomeranz, etc). He doesn’t seem to understand roster construction at all.
yanks2323
Can someone wake up and give Cashman AJ’s cell # and say hey, we kind of got hosed on the Voigt trade, can we work out a Paddack deal?
davemlaw
The Cubs should take Wil Myers and his entire contract in addition to prospects. This would free payroll for the Padres and let go after Conforto or look at other trades. And Cubs could move Myers later for more prospects if they eat his salary.
Simm
That makes zero sense for the Padres. Myers is in the last year of his deal and conforto would likely cost as much if not more then myers. Plus the padres would still have a hole in left field. Myers isn’t going to be moved. At least not with the intentions of singing conforto. There isn’t any other free agent outfielders worth a crap out there either.
davemlaw
Padres have been looking to move Myers for sometime now. With Voit around Myers is redundant and expensive ($22.5m this year but only $13.8M AAV). Cubs can take Myers salary and would gladly take prospects too as they’re rebuilding.
Freeing payroll for Padres would allow them flexibility for other moves, not necessarily Conforto; SD needs to make playoffs this year or Preller is gone. Not that I care, I’m not a Padre fan nor a Cub fan. It’s just 2 teams that match up in an obvious deal.
seamaholic 2
Myers’ contract is not terribly under water. You don’t get much of a prospect with him. He was a 1.4 fWAR player last year and makes $20m in his last year of control. So that’s definitely negative, but nothing like Hosmer’s. In Myers’ case the Padres could probably retain half his money and trade him for nothing, freeing $10m. That, combined with their space, should get them Conforto if they structure it well. But that doesn’t solve any problems because they’re just replacing one corner OF for another.
Devlsh
And I would contend that there’s no guarantee that they’d be upgrading either, given Conforto’s most recent production.
Luke Strong
If Pirates trade Reynolds, with 4 years of control left, they should be forced to sell the franchise. I mean, what would even be the point of developing players if they get to the team and are dealt over money concerns within 3 years? There is no one Pittsburgh could acquire for Reynolds who would contribute more than he does to the team. He’s a super star.
Samuel
IF they would trade him it’s not because of “money concerns”………
It’s because they’re in a rebuild and if they can get back 3-4 quality prospects it might be attractive.
Devlsh
It’s not about whether the prospects would contribute more to the Pirates in 2022 but rather whether the accumulated talent would combine to produce a winning team in 2023 or 2024.
Put it another way: The Pirates aren’t going to win this year with Reynolds and unlikely to win next year either. If they can pick up three major contributors, let’s say a starting SS like Abrams (allowing Cruz to move to LF) and two legitimate SPs for Reynolds, than it makes sense.
I sympathize with long suffering Bucco fans but their model for success is to open a window when all your prospects are ready and then hold it open as long as possible until they become too expensive. Reynolds may be around by the time they collect enough talent but if his departure can accelerate that timetable and increase the likelihood of success, then it behooves Pittsburgh to deal him.
Brew88
Abrams? He’s a potential superstar. I doubt the Pads will part with Gore, Hassell, Campusano or James Wood in a trade for Reynolds. I think the prospect haul will look more like what Musgrove brought (Hudson Head. Bedar and some change, Lucchessi to Mets), maybe a bit more. Or in today’s terms: Paddack, Merrill, Gasser and Mears
Bruin1012
If the Pads aren’t going to part with Hasseell Gore plus then they are being very unrealistic about the value of Reynolds. If the Pirates wanted Abrams it would still cost at least Gore on top if that. This is the problem with prospects yes Abrams could be a superstar but Reynolds already is.
SpendNuttinWinNuttin
Lol the package for Musgrove won’t come close to that of Reynolds…. If Hassel, Gore, or Abrams isn’t available, the Pirates laugh and keep on going.
stormie
@Brew88 Why would the return for Reynolds be in any way comparable to what Musgrove brought back? Reynolds is an elite CF with 4 years of control, Musgrove is a mid-rotation starter that had 2 years of control left. They’re not even in the same universe in terms of value.
jtkuch
Reynolds is worth at least double what Musgrove was. Absurd comment
Brew88
I said it would take more in trade for Reynolds. Musgrove is better than mid level SP, the Pirates undervalued him. They may value Reynolds accurately, which is why the Padres likely won’t be able to get him on the cheap as they did Musgrove. I simply stated what the Pads might offer given what Pirates agreed to with Musgrove.
SportsFan0000
Padres way over paid for Musgrove.
It won’t happen again…there farm is being emptied out,.
Brew88
Lucchessi, Bedar and Head (who hit .213 last year). Not an overpay, a steal?
SportsFan0000
The Padres/Preller vastly overpaid for Musgrove.
(5 prospects for a middle to end of the rotation starter?! please!!).
A reasonable Reynolds trade would include maybe 1 top of the line prospects and 3-4 lesser prospects.
Otherwise, HARD PASS!
Brew88
The Pirates over value Reynolds at this time so don’t expect a trade.
Musgrove 3 years ago was a 3-5 SP, now he’s 1-3 on 8090% of teams. Steal
JoeBrady
a761506
If Pirates trade Reynolds, with 4 years of control left, they should be forced to sell the franchise. I mean, what would even be the point of developing players if they get to the team and are dealt
=======================================
The point is to focus on a point of time where the Pirates hope to be competitive. If it is meaningful to you to win 65 games this year, instead of 60, then it makes sense to keep Reynolds.
OTOH, if you are one of those (and that would include me) that want to save up all their nickels and dimes for a run at a championship some day, then you trade for the future.
Luke Strong
I see Reynolds as their franchise player… the core of the team’s future nucleus… they should be trying to extend him for 8-10 years right now. You have got to have a foundational player to build around.
Robertowannabe
They already approached him once for an extension. They no doubt are at least talking informally about extending. Even Soto turned down a 13
year $350m contract. Players do say no, no matter what is offered.
Robertowannabe
@a761506– If the Pirates trade Reynolds for what they are asking for and being turned down so far, why would they be forced to sell? Every player has a price. Most teams will never meet the price for 99.9% the top players., Even Trout would have a price (if he could be moved without a no trade clause) but no team would or could or should meet that price. If someone would offer the sun moon and stars for Reynolds and they could get at lease one top end starter, and a combo of top end pitching, IF, and OF help, Cherrington would be nuts to say no. Not going to happen.
bobtillman
What makes Reynolds unique is that he produced 2 out of the last 3 years with absolutely NO protection in that lineup. I know protection is considered a myth by the suits, not so for guys like Harold Reynolds, Buck Showalter, Ron Darling, Mikey Lowell, Dan O’Dowd, etc. I mean, what do they know.
The return has to be massive, IMHO…as in Abrams, Hassell, Gore (let’s face it Pad fans, at this point a bit of a lottery ticket) and one of those back-end pitchers.
Deleted Userr
Gore looks to be back on track this spring.
Samuel
Alec Bohm looked to be back on track with the Phillies last ST.
Deleted Userr
He was never off track before last ST. He was a ROY finalist despite missing the first quarter of the 2020 season.
joew
Gore maybe a bust as a front line starter. (maybe) i’d say more probable mid/back end guy for most teams. That is still nothing to shake a stick at though.
Hassell looks quality. but would need an other quality to grab. padres might not want to though since Hassell may come up quickly.
Abrams is likely a pipe dream and position wise is less of a need for the pirates. But if OF looks like a real possibility i’d do it on the pirates side. at worst would be a great trade piece if the pirates start doing well earlier than expected.
Any two of those probably gets it done depending on the rest of the package.
I’d put money on the pirates are going to hang back and see if they can get an extension done unless they get overwhelmed.
Deleted Userr
Gore is a frontline starter easy
SDHotDawg
Maybe Gore will be. Someday. Rookie SPs aren’t exactly known for lighting the world on fire in their rookie seasons. At least, not since Fernando Valenzuela. Having said that, we might as well get his rookie learning curve out of the way.
Deleted Userr
If Gore busts you can call me whatever offensive names you want
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Gore *may* be a frontline starter. I don’t take any ST breakouts seriously. Pitchers are facing minor leaguers at least half the time and other guys are shaking off rust, working on new stances, etc. Pitchers can also let loose with their best arsenal knowing they’ll only go 3 innings. I’m not denying he has the requisite talent to be a TOR starter, just saying let him prove it in real games first.
Deleted Userr
So he shall
joew
his performance at mid/higher levels disagree AA and up his performance hasn’t been lights out.. or even lights dim.
Granted, I don’t follow the Pardres as much as padres fans 🙂 Someone said he was doing better in the spring.
SDHotDawg
@thelegendaryhar …
Why would I do that? I think he’s got great potential. I’m just being realistic.
Brew88
Gore’s mechanics went akilter in 2021, resulting in lost command, and about 4-5 mph on his fastball. It took a year to revamp his delivery and over winter he got back on track, hitting 100 mph (fastest he’s ever thrown). With Gore this SP actually is significant not because he’s dominating again in SP games, and not because his command is better than his pre-2021 form when he was the top pitching prospect in MLB, it’s because he’s faster/more accurate than he’s EVER been. You can say small sample size sure, and yes he’ll need to prove it in real games (in AAA or MLB), but the tangible results have already occurred. The funk is over and other GMs are taking notice (everyone wants to buy low?). Now it’s a matter of him not falling back into old habits but the Pads seem inclined to see how far up he goes now, they’ve been patient so far.
SDHotDawg
Gore’s mechanics didn’t go south on its own. The Padres have been trying to change his entire delivery for 2+ years. Maybe he’s finally getting comfortable with the change.
Let’s also keep in mind that it’s Spring Training.
Brew88
yes of course, he’ll have to show results in actual games and I say that above. But last SP he was walking every other batter and getting hammered and losing his mind about his predicament. I’m not being unrealistic to say that so far, this SP, he’s been 180 deg opposite. The obvious command and 5 mph increase is being noticed is all… and good news for Gore, who’s a great kid. Let’s hope he continues to progress
SpendNuttinWinNuttin
Gore def busts, just not the way we’re discussing….
Deleted Userr
I’m fully prepared to die on the MacKenzie Gore is an ace hill. Sue me.
joew
@theLegendaryharambe
Been there tyler glasnow, mitch keller and gerrit cole (granted cole was good in pit a few years)
they left and got better glue and owned lol, probably not glue just poking at them our pitching coaches couldn’t work with younger players at the MLB level
Deleted Userr
Good thing we have Ruben Niebla in house then
SportsFan0000
Abrams and Hassell won’t be in any trade.
Bruin1012
You might be right Sportsfan but that also means no way the Padres get Reynolds.
CNichols
I don’t understand why SD wants to deal from SP after what happened last year. Lack of SP depth is why they had that crazy second half collapse.
You need like 8-10 starter arms to get through a season and while their top 5 guys look solid and should hopefully be healthier, it’s like making the same mistake all over again if you trade from the depth. Not to mention it’s selling low on Paddack/Weathers
Billy Baroo
They need arms, yeah, but LF is a flippin’ disaster right now. The risk of “not enough SP” may be lower than the risk of “Profar+Beatty platoon for 162 games.”
It comes down to which way you want to bet. Do you gamble on career mediocrities providing enough offense+defense in LF or on Darvish+Musgrove+Snell+Clevinger+Martinez+Gore covering enough innings?
SDHotDawg
@ baroo … Yes, LF is a disaster. So is the bench.
But there’s no depth in SP. You added Clevinger, Martinez, and Gore just to make your point, which still doesn’t add up to any depth. Martinez is a career fringe guy, Clevinger is coming off TJ #2 and is a question mark, and Gore hasn’t thrown a single big league inning and has very limited time at AA and above.
Basically, we’ve got three ML pitchers we can hopefully count on.
Billy Baroo
Not disagreeing that the SP is a house of cards. I’m not adding Clevinger+Martinez+Gore to make any point other than that those are the dudes Preller would be betting on. We’d be lucky to get 250 overall mediocre innings out of that group.
It’s simply a question of which configuration is more likely to be competitive:
* a stud LF, very risky starting rotation
* more solid starting rotation but Profar / Beatty in LF for 600 at-bats.
I’m not sure what the answer is. There are other possibilities too — Abrams breaks camp with the big club being the most likely. Or you hold onto all the SP and hope to find OF reinforcements before the race gets out of hand, either internally or in a less-risky trade.
JoeBrady
CNichols
I don’t understand why SD wants to deal from SP after what happened last year.
================================
I am going out on a limb here, but because Preller is hanging-upside down-batschitt-crazy? Clevinger is getting lit up. Paddack has only two innings. Weathers is getting hit. Snell still hasn’t made an appearance.
Darvish, Musgrove and Gore have looked great, but that’s still only two SPs and a rookie.
Billy Baroo
Preller’s impulse control has often been suspect.
He may feel like Reynolds for pitching gives the team a better chance in 2022 than hanging onto back-end starters like Paddack and Weathers, but still….he’s trying to roll a hard six.
He may also be looking more toward 2023. He’s got Darvish and Snell for sure in 2023 and a good chance at retaining local product Musgrove. Myers’ is gone and Hosmer gets cheap. In that case, having Reynolds a year early makes sense, depending on the cost.
Deleted Userr
I wouldn’t be so sure that Musgrove stays
Billy Baroo
They clear a lot of money after 2022 and he grew up a Padre fan. You can never say for sure, but they have the inside track.
Deleted Userr
Yeah like how Harper was going to sign there because he got married at the San Diego Temple and Strasburg was going to sign there because he is from San Diego and went to SDSU and Freddy Galvis was going to sign there because they traded for him and… and…
Billy Baroo
Harper grew up in Las Vegas.
Strasburg was drafted by the Nationals because the Padres avoided tanking, then signed a mega-extension. He was never on the open market.
Who would have wanted Galvis to sign? The ultimate no-point stopgap.
None of them grew up going to Padre games with their family. None of them idolized Jake Peavy (Musgrove wears Peavy’s 44).
It’s no guarantee, but if the team has the money (they do) and the player wants to stay (he sure seems to), it ain’t crazy to predict Musgrove sticking around.
Gwynning
All this before even mentioning Musgrove’s SD tattoos! Pads DEFINITELY have the “inside track” but that doesn’t mean the ink is drying yet. A sensible offer still needs to be made… (and will be.)
Deleted Userr
@Billy Baroo Strasburg was most certainly on the open market! It was after the 2019 season. He got extended a QO and everything.
I’ll take the field over Musgrove signing with the Padres (or really any other individual team)
Billy Baroo
You’re right, harambe. He hit the open market in 2019, immediately after winning a WS in Washington and being with the Nationals since 2010.
If he has a good 2022 in San Diego, I’ll bet you $50 cash money he resigns.
SDHotDawg
Weathers needs to be in the minors. Paddack may never adjust to ML hitters without some time in the minors himself.
Brew88
@Hotdog. Agreed, Weathers does need AAA time and I think two-pitch Paddack has reached his career pinnacle and it’s a #4-5 starter at best. You can send Paddack back to minors (where he’d dominate like he has done in the past, and hope he develops a 3rd pitch) but why not take advantage of his trade value being perhaps as high as ever now? Which is why they’d be smart to package Paddack + prospects (ranked 8-20) for a sensible improvement at LF. It wouldn’t likely be enough for Reynolds, though look how little they gave up for Musgrove?
SDHotDawg
I wouldn’t be opposed to trading Paddack. Especially not for a decent ML left fielder.
SportsFan0000
Some of those Padres starters are close to free agency and won’t be back.
Those young pitchers talked about in potential trades are needed in
the Padres rotation in ’23-’24
OR the Padres are back to square #1 with a huge payroll and many more holes on their team.
SDHotDawg
I’m still trying to figure out why some people, including a few writers, think we have SP “depth.” We don’t.
Edit – just saw CNichols post. Spot on.
Brew88
I’m still trying to figure out where this rumor started, maybe from just writers needing to create a story during a slow week? Every competitive team in the league has shown interest in Reynolds, but what actual recent negotiations have taken place with Padres? ……tweet from Nightengale show no link to actual Padres brass
ukpadre
Probably because on paper we have about 8 or 9 “MLB quality” starting pitchers (Darvish, Musgrove, Clevinger, Snell, Martinez, Lamet, Paddack, Weathers, Gore). However, anyone even remotely familiar with the situation knows that most of those have huge question marks, aren’t or can’t stay healthy, or are simply not starting pitchers at the MLB level. I think that’s where the confusion is coming from.
Brew88
tweeters and writers playing GM
joew
Doesn’t seem like the Padres would have what it takes that they would get rid of with out some creative maneuvering. LIke the pirates taking on Myers contract to sweeten the pot and the padres take that saved money into the free agent market.
I don’t know the padres plans enough to do get to far into it though.
billysbballz
I have a trade idea involving 3 teams. The Pirates already stocked with a strong farm will become allot stronger after this deal. Unfortunately the Pads do not have a strong farm, in fact Gore is listed at the bottom of the mlb 100 top prospects list.
The trade involves the Yankees who do have a very deep farm, Padres, and of course the Pirates.
The Yankees would send Aaron Hicks (5 years at 50 mill) to the Padres. They would send the following 4 prospects to the Pirates:
CF Everson Periera, RHP Hayden Wesneski, SS Alexander Vargas and RHP Deivi Garcia.
The Padres would send Hosmer (59m left) C Luis Campusano and outfielder CF Robert Hassell III to the Pirates.
The Pirates would send Brian Reynolds to the Yankees.
The Pirates receive two big outfield prospects, a big catching prospect, one of the upcoming big talented SS in Yankee farm not named Volpe but has tool set to be as good as Oswald Peraza but a few years younger, and two of the better Yankee pitching prospects.
The Pads get rid of Hosmer contract and now have a healthy Aaron Hicks (10m per) to play cf and switch hit. The Yanks get Reynolds to replace Hicks and he is also a switch hitting cf but 4 years younger and allot better. Yanks are giving up again allot of young talent from a deep farm but they are not giving up Volpe. The Padres hold onto Mackenzie Gore even though his stock has faded allot. The Pirates also can take on Hosmer contract even though they are cheap.
Padre fans may want more than Hicks but if they are in win now plus getting rid of Hosmer at first Hicks could be a great fit in cf. if Padres want Reynolds they will have to give up allot more and I doubt Hosmer is in the deal!
Robertowannabe
Where is the top pitching that the Bucs have been asking for?
steelerbravenation
Stop that’s nonsense why would Padres want Hicks horrible contract after they get rid of Hosmer’s ????
Padres straight up with Pirates get the Yankees out the equation
Deleted Userr
The Pirates are not taking Hosmer and trading Reynolds in the same trade. Ever.
Bruin1012
Billy balls let me get this straight the Yankees get rid of a bad contract trade some ok prospects but no real value and you get Reynolds. If Cash could pull this off then he should be GM of the year. The issue is when you have such a lopsided return for one team at least one of the others would be completely hosed. In your scenario the only real winner is the Yankees by a long shot. The Pirates would get a few propects from the Yankees not really any of the type you have to give up to get a guy like Reynolds. It’s a terrible trade for both Padres and Pittsburg great trade for the Yankees though.
billysbballz
I get that you want 5 top 50 prospects in all of baseball but that’s not happening! Sam Diego has a weak farm to boot. Those Yankee prospects are not throw ins. Vargas projects to be a top 10 organizational prospect and he’s very young in system. He may have higher ceiling than Oswald Peraza! You can ask for the very top prospects that are almost major league ready but teams are not doing that so no Volpe, no CJ Abrams.
Bruin1012
If some team doesn’t get realistic about Reynolds then there is no reason to trade him in your proposal you have the Pirates trading Reynolds and taking on one of the worst contracts in baseball. Ignoring the Pirates return which is poor for what they trade take on why on earth would the Padres take on another bad contract and trade both Hassell and Campusano? It makes absolutely no sense the only team making out like a bandit is the Yankees in your proposal. The Pirates aren’t in a position where they have to trade Reynolds and if some team like the Yankees want him they will have to pay up. I mean really look at the offer and tell me how any team but the Yankees are making out on your proposal?
SpendNuttinWinNuttin
That’s every Yankee fan ever. Lets give you X bad contract and Y overrated prospect for Z your best player at a hell of a cheap rate. Throw in a nother team and give away their top 2 prospects too for nothing lol. Ridiculous
Deleted Userr
Yankees trade Mad Libs:
Hello. Yes, we’d like to trade for (insert solid controllable young player here). You can’t have (insert pet prospect here), but a package of (insert spare part here), (insert fringe prospect here), (insert utility infielder here) and (insert AAAA reliever here) should get the job done if you take Giancarlo Stanton. Whadda ya say?
Brew88
I’ll play. Wander Franco, gerbil, carburetor throttle valve, River Ryan, Ha-seong Kim, Botox
brucenewton
Your pinstriped panties are showing.
Gwynning
Trying to find the sense in trading 2 Top 50 Prospects… for Aaron Hicks? IF (big IF) we trade 2 Top 50 guys then I think they’d be straight to Pitt in a 2 team trade. Nobody needs the Yankee’s castaways to consummate a deal here…
Javia135
The Yankees don’t need the Padres for this trade. Andujar and Frazier for Reynolds. Done.
joew
TL:DR: I don’t see Ben going for this. Elite Prospects and high end pitching prospects. with an s on prospects as in multiple. Fewer total prospects.
not sure why the Pads would move Hosmer, hes still productive even though over priced for ’22, after that he maybe worth the 13m/year. have another 1b in the works? I would not be opposed to the pirates taking on extra payroll in Hosmer or Myers to get better prospects but really the Padres may not be able to fill a package to make it worth it, that they would part with anyway in a 2 team trade.
Package to the pirates isn’t all that desirable. Wesneski and Hassell would be the headlines. Neither one are the elite prospects that the pirates would want in trade. Good prospects don’t get me wrong but Elite does not fit.
Campusano would get wasted in Pittsburgh. Pirates have abetter prospect that will likely be here in their timeline. Before the draft sure, now not so much. If they pirates were going to push in ’22 then yeah… but that isn’t happening.
Deleted Userr
Packaging Hosmer for Reynolds isn’t happening unless Tatis is part of the package. This is a fact. Hosmer would be lucky to get a major league contract if he were a FA today.
SportsFan0000
Give up two top Padres prospects with future star written all over them
and get Hicks in return?!
TERRIBLE DEAL FOR THE PADRES, VERY ONE SIDED.
steelerbravenation
Myers, Hosmer, Weathers & Gore for Reynolds
hyraxwithaflamethrower
This is one of the worst trade proposals I’ve ever seen on here. Please tell me this was a joke.
wkkortas
Which Reynolds would that be for? Debbie Reynolds? Reynolds Wrap?
SpendNuttinWinNuttin
The Pirates don’t pay their own players why would they pay San DIego’s mistakes??!
hyraxwithaflamethrower
I’d be surprised if a deal gets done without Abrams being the centerpiece. Paddack, Weathers, and Gore are all nice pieces, but each has had their struggles. I’m not a fan of either team, but whichever players end up on the Padres ought to be grateful about it. Pittsburgh has a beautiful stadium, but one of the worst owners in all of professional sports.
Gwynning
I’m hopeful that Abrams remains “untouchable”… but I could see a deal with Hassell being a component for Reynolds. Top CF Prospect + arm package for Top (“available”) MLB CFer. In perceived likelihood, this is schadenfreude from Nightingale… but I would love to move Grish to RF and Myers to LF if this transpires.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
If it’s not Abrams, it’ll have to be more volume. Even then, I doubt it just because the Pirates will want something to sell to their fans. Then again, the Padres have had success the last couple years acquiring players they want and keeping their top prospects, so what do I know?
Brew88
It won’t be Abrams as he’s untouchable. And breaking news today the team said they are SERIOuSLY thinking of starting Abrams at SS against RH pitching, then use him as backup CF, and giving him time at LF. Kim sits against RH pitching, slides into utility role rest of the time. When Tatis returns Abrams plays OF mostly. He may get 500 ML ABs this year for the Padres not the Pirates.
SportsFan0000
Abrams is not going anywhere.
He is a better defender than Tatis Jr.
Abrams will be playing SS/OF for the Padres this year.
Campusano and Hassell should be untouchable also.
Giving up these players will destroy the Padres depth and farm
and leave them open to collapse with 1-2 key injuries this year.
jvent
Would the Angels take Carrasco or T.Walker plus JD or a prospect or 2 off the Mets for Adell or Marsh, if so the Mets can put Peterson or Megill in the rotation and have an OF in the future since they lost Kelenic years ago
hyraxwithaflamethrower
No, neither Carrasco nor Walker impressed last year. Davis can hit, but seems to be hurt a lot and plays poor defense. Both Adell and Marsh are worth more.
JoeBrady
Not even close. Carrasco and Walker are likely negative value players at this point. Marsh need to be demoted, but has 6 years of control left. I’m not a big fan of Adell, but he looks like a solid bet for 30 HRs every year.
gavilan
Preller,don;t do it.. You made alot bad trade and overpaying. You trade 1 catcher,and 1 pitcher,for 1 outfielder and does it.You are not aloud to trade more prospects,for now.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
ST breakouts should only ever mean one thing: that you get to break camp with the team, and even then, not all the time. Pitchers are facing minor leaguers half the time and can go all-out since they’re only going 3 innings. Hitters can likewise tee off on minor leaguers and guys who are working on new pitches, deliveries, etc., and don’t care about the outcome of that game. I’ll buy that Gore is back on track if at the end of May he’s still pitching very well.
RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame
Campusano, Paddack, Weathers, and a decent AA player should get it done. If it doesn’t? The Pirates are crazy.
Bruin1012
Pirates don’t won’t Campusano replace with Hassell and maybe there is a deal.
Javia135
BTV says that it would take CJ Abrams and Campusano or Paddack to get Reynolds. OR BTV says the Padres could get Austin Meadows for Weathers. I am guessing they go with option 2.
Gwynning
Takes 2 to tango. I’m guessing TB is holding that phone call on line 2 while they entertain other offers. Makes sense for both teams though, I can dig it.
leftcoaster
Campusano, Weathers and a lower tier prospect for Reynolds’s would be a logical trade for both teams.
wkkortas
Pirates would say no to that, at least one hopes.. No Abrams? No thanks.
jimthegoat
I remember when the Mets wouldn’t even listen to the Padres in talks for Noah Syndergaard unless they were willing to include Tatis. How’d that work out for them?
leftcoaster
Weathers will be much better than you think. I watched about 30 of Campusano’s high A games from about 20 feet from him when he played for the Lake Elsinore Storm. He seemed a bit lethargic behind the plate but he launched em like very few players I’ve seen play there over the course of the past 26 years.
SportsFan0000
Padres should say no to that deal.
Campusano should be the Padres starting catcher right now!
SportsFan0000
Campusano should be the Padres starting catcher
sdpadsfan11
Pass on Reynolds. He’s at peak value right now. The Padres should look to trade for two OF’s. My choice would be Hayes and Adell. I’ll bet that they both can be acquired without destroying their farm system.
99socalfrc
How long will the Padres put up with Preller? Ownership is clearly committed to winning but you can’t get there making bonehead decisions.
This guy has went from “Win now” mode, to “build from within” mode and back so many times now. You can’t get anywhere like that.
The craziest part is how much everyone still believes in his eye for talent. His supposed league best farm system has amounted to Chris Paddack and Tatis. They seriously have no other starter or everyday player to show for it.
Fire this dude already.
Gwynning
Prospects are suspects until proven otherwise… and we have turned prospects into Cronenworth, Yu, Nola, Musgrove, Grish, etc. Nobody wins every trade… but our prospects have fielded a very good team in return.
Deleted Userr
Dude, the whole point of having prospects is being able to get them over the hump into the majors. To close on them. That’s the whole key to the equation. If you can’t do that you’ll never be successful as an organization. The best San Diego can hope for under their current plan is a maybe 2 year window IF everything goes right.
SDHotDawg
@the legendaryhar …
That’s what good teams do: they call it development. Preller hasn’t show any aptitude in that department, either.
Brew88
c’mon. Developing prospects also serves as developing trade value. Good teams do that, how do you think the Dodgers got Mookie, Scherzer, T. Turner, etc…?.
Deleted Userr
They also didn’t sign/trade for their entire core. Preller appears either unable or unwilling to get his prospects over the hump.
Brew88
Abrams?
SDHotDawg
That’s one. In 8 years.
Brew88
And hopefully Gore this year. And Campusano gets another call up at some point too (after a C trade), nothing left to prove in minors.
There’s a decent chance they unload one of their catchers before opening day, Caratini or Alfaro
SDHotDawg
@99socalfrc …
Completely agree. But, you just lit up one of the biggest Preller groupies on the internet. And if you throw any facts or common sense his way, he’ll just insult you and mute you!
Deleted Userr
@SDHotDawg Probably a blessing in disguise
Simm
If the padres traded…yu, clev, snell, cron, Grisham, voit, mustgrove, nola and others (pen guys) they would have the best farm again in minutes. Thats just the guys preller traded for. When you add those prospects with abrams, gore, Hassell, campusano and others they already have. That’s with keeping tatis.
Most of prellers bad trades happened in 2014/15 when they rushed to try and compete. Many have reported that was the new owners pushing their chips in. After this year there isnt much dead weight contracts left. Myers will be off the books, hosmer drops to 13m a year. A few others perhaps over paid by a bit but nothing major. The only big dollars after this year is tatis and machado, which are worth the dollars in my eyes.
The current team has a chance to compete this year. If they fail I could see a major shift at the deadline which should include trading a number of guys mentioned above.
Deleted Userr
@Simm Yu and Clev arguably have negative trade value. And Hosmer’s salary dropping to $13m doesn’t’t matter. The dude would be lucky to get a major league contract if he were a FA right now.
Brew88
By the time he hits FA status that may be true, but he was a FA today I think there would be plenty of teams interested in him as a depth piece – for the right price. His career OPS+ is 108 and last year was 104 so his decline isn’t as sharp as has been rumored.
I think the big contract elevated expectations – in reality at best he was slightly above average and now he’s an average 1B if not slightly below.
Deleted Userr
The thing about Hosmer in KC is that he was inconsistent. His fWAR had a standard deviation of 2.084. His WAR per 162 games played as a Royal was 1.527 but rather than hovering around that it peaked as high as 4 but valleyed as low as -1.3.
In SD he’s been more consistent, but not the type of consistent we were hoping for.
Gwynning
I see your overarching points, Harambe. It is nice to develop your own guys… but thats why we kept who we kept. Abrams, Bobby 3-Sticks, Gore and Campy are developing “soon” and well worth the wait. Simm brings about some good points, too. Preller’s worst days were the Matt Kemp days, which was an ill-fated attempt at rushing the roster. Like Hos, we have the benefit of hindsight but for the most part we all questioned it at the time. We’ve since recuperated both the roster and the farm. Bright days ahead, no doubt.
SDHotDawg
I’m not a big fan of WAR as a stat, but that StdDev number is very telling.
Deleted Userr
@Gwynning But we did not keep Luis Urias, Xavier Edwards, Andres Munoz, Ty France, Cal Quantrill, Josh Naylor, Gabriel Arias, Logan Allen, Luis Patiño and Cole Wilcox.
SDHotDawg
Apparently Gwynning is completely unaware that our farm system is currently ranked 17th by FG, BBA, and ESPN. I think the last MLB Pipeline rank I saw had us at 15th. “Recuperated?” Only a die-hard Preller groupie would say that.
Gwynning
I know what we sent, and I’m still happy with what we’ve received. We have a solid core right now regardless of how it was constructed. We kept our Aces up our sleeve; time will tell if keeping our Top 4 proved to be the correct approach. Always have “Faith” over here, stay blessed amigo!
SDHotDawg
We found Preller’s burner account! It’s Gwynning!
Brew88
If you hand pick a list of prospects traded to make a point, pick only the good ones. Do you really want Logan Allen and his 5.8 ERA? Wilcox, Arias, Naylor, Edwards, Patino haven’t done anything yet.
Gwynning
I know we need an OFer… but do we really miss Franchy or did we rob KC of Tim Hill at the right time? The 40 Man is (fairly) well constructed… not perfect… but hey, what is?
Deleted Userr
@Gwynning Happy with Austin Nola, Tommy Pham, Mike Clevinger and Blake Snell????
REALLY?????
REALLY?????
Deleted Userr
Always thought Franchy Cordero was overrated so the Tim Hill trade did not and does not bother me.
Deleted Userr
@Brew88 We could have traded Allen for something else. It wasn’t “trade him in that trade or lose him.” The Padres honestly never should have gotten involved in the Bauer trade at all. Let the Reds and Guardians figure that one out on their own.
And as for the other guys, do you not realize that you JUST described literally every prospect ever? Mike Trout hadn’t done anything yet either as of 10 years ago.
Brew88
The Pham trade turned out to be the Cronenworth trade, a great trade!
Brew88
Right, Trout could only be judged as great because he is. None of those other guys are Trout yet, and most aren’t even able to graduate to MLB yet,so how can you compare them to Trout? For example Let the Urias trade play out before you rip into it.
Deleted Userr
I can compare them to Trout because he was also a prospect once. And they don’t have to become what Trout is now to make those trades look bad.
Brew88
Getting dizzy in this chicken n egg circular argument. I get your general disdain for Preller’s trades, and agree that more bad ones (Franmil Reyes, Frazier last year, etc…) than good, but some weren’t entirely his fault (Clevenger) nor have they fully played out as losers, so I reserve judgement. It looks like they will hold on to Abrams …they should!
Deleted Userr
How was Clevinger not entirely his fault? Because he didn’t know the dude would get injured? First of all, I’m not convinced the Guardians weren’t hiding something (why else would they trade their #2 (or maybe #3 depending on who you ask) starter when they are ostensibly in the race?) Secondly, if he gets credit for buying Tatis and Crone before their big breakouts, he also has to take the blame for buying Clevinger right before he gets TJ #2.
As for Abrams, one of two things is true…
A) They will ultimately have to trade either him or Tatis.
B) The people who say “Preller never would have traded for Tatis if he hadn’t traded Trea Turner away first” have no earthly idea what they are talking about and need to delete their accounts.
Gwynning
Happy with Nola, Clev and Snell, yes. Did we win those trades? Perhaps not but that is entirely subjective and possibly too early too tell. Nola looks resurgent, Clev will be thirsty and Snell has some great starts ahead. The jury is still out on my pal Patiño (I never wanted to lose him to TB!), I miss France, Cal-Q and The Franimal but those moves were time-based (40 Man crunch) and pertinent. Not everything has been perfect and I’m glad our fanbase has concerned fans such as yourself. Any and all “moves” are not above scrutiny. I’ve been severely concerned with the LF hole; I hope Beaty can help but it all feels like an incomplete roster especially when we can look on the horizon and see Opening Day. Cheers all, first .394 is on me at Petco!
Deleted Userr
@Gwynning Once again, when Preller puts Luis Campusano on the 40-man roster a year before he has to for 4 PA’s and puts Ryan Weathers on the 40-man roster 2 years before he had to for 1.1 IP all in games they lost anyway you lose the right to use the 40-man crunch as an argument. Patiño, Quantrill and Reyes are already better than the players they were traded for, to say nothing of the fact that they are cheaper, controlled longer and weren’t the only piece Preller gave up in those trades.
As for the hole in LF, while they aren’t saying it publicly, it looks like Preller is under ownership mandate to stay under the luxury tax threshold. i do agree that it is much better to be slightly below it than slightly above it.
SDHotDawg
How about Profar? Frazier?
SDHotDawg
@thelegendary …
The Red Sox are STILL trying to figure out what to do with Franchy. He’s looking more and more like a 4A player. (Who still can’t catch a batted ball!)
Brew88
I’m guilty too of Franchy hopefulness. Damn he just looks like a star. I watched him in Peoria training field launch about 15 consecutive identical 450 ft line drives off of Craig Stammen to the applause of his teammates. Then he gets into games and trips over his own shoelaces.
SDHotDawg
It might be worth noting that his first two years in the minors, he was a SS. Then he started setting records for Errors in low-A ball. “Hey, Franchy! What do you think about playing the outfield?”
😉
SportsFan0000
Preller is giving Padres fans whiplash with all his bad trade and free agent signing deals. Do the Padres have an adult in the room to put a tight leash on Preller
before he completely blows up the Padres farm system, again?!
Deleted Userr
You are doing that too much. Try again in 10 years.
norcalblue
More than at any time in his tenure with SD, Prellar is in a weakened position. The leash is getting shorter and shorter as the pressure to win now is more real than ever.
My sense is that Reynolds can be had for a deal that includes Abrams. Its that basic and depending upon Prellar’s sense of desperation, he might do it. A deal could also include Hosmer and Weathers or Gore (or other real young assets) depending upon 1) Bucs willingness to take on salary to further improve overall talent in their system, and 2) the pressure on Prellar from ownership to reduce costs.
Deleted Userr
You can completely forget about including Hosmer in a Reynolds trade. It’s not going to happen. Ever.
Also, there’s no “a” in Preller.
SportsFan0000
Padres cannot afford to trade Abrams especially with Tatis Jr hurt so much.
It would be colossally stupid to trade Abrams with the Padres current SS situation.
Fill one hole in CF and open up bigger holes @ SS or LF, Starting pitching depth?!
Some of those injury prone veteran starters are free agents in ’23, ’24.
Who will take their places in the rotation if Preller empties out his best young pitching depth and sends it to Pittsburgh?!
Hard Pass on that deal!
SportsFan0000
Just promote and play your best young players like Catcher Campusano and SS/INF CJ Abrams.
Way better options than emptying your farm system for 1 or 2 players.
Decimating San Diego’s farm system will get them the same result as last year
since their depth from a few years ago will be gone.
It will just take 1 or 2 injures to key players and the collapse of 2022 will be on
and the Padres will be fighting
to stay out of last place in the NL West.
ElGaupo77
you have a 6 1/2 years of Abrams Who might be good. You have four years of Reynolds who is good.
Javia135
The Padres currently need more offense, a regular OF and a replacement SS for 2-3 months. Abrams can currently provide 2 of those 3. When Tatis gets back he can take over an OF position. Done.
SDHotDawg
Yeah, anybody can play the outfield in a ML baseball game. So what if they’ve never played it bore?
Sometimes my fellow Padres fans are embarrassing.
Javia135
@SDHotDawg
Try reading BEFORE commenting next time. I said Abrams can provide 2 OUT OF 3.
More offense: Than Profar? Yes.
Replacement SS for 2-3 months: Yes.
That is 2. Nobody was suggesting Abrams play OF. I suggested TATIS play the OF when he comes back. In case you didn’t know, Tatis HAS played OF at the ML level.
SDHotDawg
You’re right. I mis-read what you wrote, and I apologize. No excuses.
Javia135
Cool
Brew88
Pads seem to think Abrams is a better OF option than Tatis.
SDHotDawg
They might. But, I’ll wait until he starts his first ever pro game in the outfield before I go all in on that move.
SportsFan0000
Tatis played OF last year after his injury and could play OF when he gets back this year. Abrams is a better SS than Tatis.
SportsFan0000
There is no “might be good” with Abrams.
Abrams was the #6 pick in the MLB draft a few years ago.
Abrams has only scratched the surface of his talent.
Abrams body will fill out and more power is projected.
Abrams is already a much better defensive SS than Tatis Jr.
Abrams “lit up” the Arizona Fall league(featuring the best minor league future stars from all MLB teams). Abrams was dominant in that league.
Players who dominate the AFL go on to be All Stars in MLB.
Bruin1012
Well it’s pretty much universally know that the pitching the AFL was way down last year and no you don’t know how your prospect is going to do against true big league pitching. You can guess you can think but you don’t know and with Reynolds you do know he is a known commodity with 4 years of control left. Reynolds has hit the big league pitchers you hope that Abrams can be what Reynolds is offensively but you don’t know he will be.
SportsFan0000
Cut the BS Abrams is a “money player” or 29 out of 30 MLB teams would not be calling SD and asking for him in trades. Abrams will be in the Rookie of the year discussions this year.
Bruin1012
It’s not BS he is still a prospect end of story when he does it at the big league level then you can talk until then he is a PROPECT and wouldn’t be the first high end one to fail at the big league level.
Bruin1012
Geez this prospect love is getting ridiculous. Reynolds is already what you hope and pray Abrams becomes offensively.
SDHotDawg
Welcome to Padres baseball.
Deleted Userr
Are we really not talking about how the Giants traded Reynolds in the first place for one year of over-the-hill Andrew McCutchen?
Robertowannabe
There are still people that are whining in Pittsburgh about Cutch being traded…,,.Pirates actually also got Kyle Crick in the deal too. Crick was doing very well in the pen until he decided it was a good idea to get into a locker room fight with the relief pitcher who shall not be named. Did not follow the Crash Davis advice and hit him with his pitching hand and had to have tendon surgery on his pitching hand. Was never the same afterwards.
Brew88
That was a massive blunder by my Giants
Mystery Team
Preller is just itching to give his pitching and what’s left of that minor league system away. Does he work for San Diego or what? I’m not really sure at this point.
bitterpadresfan
Still have a bad taste from the Frazier trade. I would probably pass on trading with the Pirates for the time being.
Deleted Userr
Who…
Brew88
I can somewhat rationalize many of the worst trades by Preller, but not the one for Frazier, it made no sense and happened when they desperately needed pitching, not yet another 2B
SDHotDawg
The Frazier deal made no sense whatsoever. Preller and his shiny objects …
jtkuch
Not like the Pirates side of that trade was that great either…Marcano hit worse in AAA than Frazier did in the bigs.
Deleted Userr
The thing you need to understand is that they could have traded Tucu Marcano for something else. It wasn’t “Trade him for Adam Frazier or lose him entirely.”
SportsFan0000
The Musgrove trade was terrible for the Padres and great for the Pirates.
The Padres way overpaid for Musgrove.
Cherrington figures he has a sucker on the line when he talks to SD about trades.
The Padres have young pitchers with more talent than Musgrove if they can learn how to develop and play them in MLB.
Captain Judge99
The Yankees, Padres, and Pirates do a 3way trade. Padres- get Reynolds, Pirates- get Gore, Hassell, Vasquez and Everson Pereira, Yankees get Luis Campusano, David Weathers and Chris Paddack.
Poster formerly known as . . .
I could see Cashman adding David Weathers if Dave unretired. He’s only 52.
Deleted Userr
Beat me to it
SportsFan0000
Padres send 5 top prospects for 4 years or Reynolds?!
How soon after than deal is made is Preller fired and then hired as an Assistant GM to Cherrington in Pittsburgh?!
Captain Judge99
*Ryan Weathers.
Javia135
The Yankees are totally useless to this trade. The Padres could get Reynolds for Gore and Hassell alone. Maybe add Weathers. Vasquez and Pereira add nothing. They are certainly not close to the value of Campusano, Weathers and Paddack combined.
Captain Judge99
@Javia135- if the Friars can get Reynolds for Hassell, Gore, Paddack and Weathers, they should definitely make the trade. Something tells me the Bucs will want Woods or Merrill instead of Paddack. Would you make that trade? I don’t think the Pads will.
Javia135
You were trying to find a way to turn Vasquez and Pereira into Campusano, Paddack and Weathers even though they are nowhere close to equal in value.
Captain Judge99
@Javia135- nobody was saying the Yankees couldn’t give up more. Campusano and one of the pitchers back, either Weathers or Paddack. What would the Padres want back for just Campusano? The Yankees need a catcher. Bryan Reynolds is too expensive as far as prospects. I would just forget it.
Javia135
The Padres would want an OF prospect of similar value to Campusano who will be ready this year. A top 100 OF prospect. You only have 1 and he is farther away than Hassell is. The Padres and Yankees do not currently match up on trades.
SportsFan0000
The Padres should make Campusano their starting catcher.
Abrams is their starting SS at least until Tatis comes back from injury.
Then, one of them moves to LF.
Hassel is a younger, cheaper version of Reynolds.
Hassell and a couple of young pitchers would be a fair deal for Reynolds.
cbee
Good for the Pirates. Ask for the whole farm system. In a game where half of first round picks on average never even make the majors, a player like Bryan Reynolds should be worth whatever the ask is. How many former “top 10 prospects” never even sniff an all star game? A lot of them. I’m not saying to not value your prospects but for someone like Reynolds, mo prospect should be off limits. If they are and they never pan out then that exec should be fired immediately.
wtylerw
i think about the inequities in todays game, and its not obp or war, its prospects. they are far overvalued, constantly traded and shuffled for legit big league players. could be that gms and fans like the unknown, the idea that someone could be great just as much as they like a great player. Straight up Abrams for Reynolds (throwing in a couple non-contender pieces) – i still think a lot of die hard padres fans say no. their imagination takes over, what if… but on this club, if they intend for Tatis to play ss, do it. use the unproven, imaginative value of a guy with barely a season of minor leagues to get a legit all star level player every single time. Keep using the current imbalance to your advantage Preller.
Preller has exploited the current over-valuation of prospects to build a contender this year and next. The hole in the OF is only there until Tatis returns, if that is the plan; keep the kid and put him at ss.
SportsFan0000
Abrams was drafted out of HS.
He has 3 years in the minors.
He starred in the Arizona Fall league made up of the best MLB prospects
and future stars.
Keep Abrams. Trade Hassell and a few young pitching prospects for Reynolds
OR PASS!
Brew88
Clearly this rumor was again just another Nightengale fabrication/exageration but it sure generated a lot of comments just the same. And that’s his bread and butter.
Deleted Userr
What I want is for this entire site to brigade Bob Nightengale and demand that he address his “Trevor Bauer and Mets have a deal” tweet. I mean if enough people keep bugging the guy he’ll HAVE to address it eventually, right?
Brew88
Ha ha. I think working at USA Today he’s got the perfect gig in that it’s not fact-based media (as sports media go) and so he has no organizational editor-in-check, no consequences for errors, unencumbered by reality.
Gwynning
Prohibitive cost = they want Abrams AND Hassell PLUS Weathers and Paddack.
Harrrrrd pass but good luck Pirates!
Deleted Userr
What’s that? It’s the sound of the phone slamming down!
User 3663041837
The Pittsburgh Padres would be sneaky good in a year if a trade went down.
LordD99
A six-win, 27-year-old CFer with four years of control and a significantly below-market salary should carry a prohibitive trade cost.
Simm
This is true but also why he won’t be traded right now. Instead he will be traded in 2 years for half the cost.
You just rarely see these type of trades. Most of the time it will be when they have 1 or 2 years left before free agency.
The last one I can remember was the Chris Sale trade. It’s usually for pitching.
LordD99
Four years is also long enough where he could be part of the next winning core, although that will eventually require Nutting to pay.
cwsOverhaul
No question. Fans love suggesting a quantity of expendable parts without considering what the team with that coveted player needs (not a catcher or back of rotation arm). A perceived stud like Abrams would be the sort of stinging headliner. Gore could be a second piece Bucs dream on that hasn’t lived up to his billing yet…..cap it off with lottery prospect/someone scouts think could become a contributor.
SportsFan0000
Pirates could get Hassell and a few pitching prospects for Reynolds.
Hassell is a younger, cheaper version of Reynolds.
Pirates are “over playing” their hand…
Bruin1012
The Pirates aren’t the ones trying to trade Reynolds, in fact, they are just entertaining offers and have said they would need to be blown away and do not anticipate trading him. There is a big difference in a team looking to trade someone and a team that needs ti be blown away. This is the reason they are not over-playing there hand.
mario crosby
It’s a team with a 35 million payroll. Does it really matter? Baseball is an afterthought in Pittsburgh thanks to Bob Nutting.
billysbballz
So let me guess, the pirates rightfully so asked for CJ Abrams to headline the deal with Gore and Hassel III. Padres had to say no thx. Pirates already have a stud catcher in the pipeline so they don’t necessarily need Campusano and he also comes with baggage.
I think they do need a third team to get that deal done and I mentioned the Yanjs but reflecting back it would have been a bad trade for Padres. I was trying to look for a way the Padres can move the Hosmer contract which brings them up to the cap and he creates a logjam at first as well. The problem is unless mlb starts implementing a salary cap floor trading players on tough contracts is going to always be very difficult even if you add a top prospect to the mix.
billysbballz
If Pirates came off of CJ Abrams and settled on Hassel III as headliner in the trade with Gore or Westhers and another prospect or two maybe Pads do it but I wonder if Pads were trying to include Myers or Hosmer so where in the deal to say under the second threshold.
Deleted Userr
The second Preller says the words “Myers” or “Hosmer” Cherington hangs up and blocks his number. You don’t just get to dump a bad contract when you are trading for Bryan Reynolds or anyone like him. If anything you will be the one TAKING the bad contract.
solaris602
Correct. Cherington shouldn’t even have to say that PIT doesn’t want Myers or Hosmer for the very same reason SD doesn’t want them – overpriced and under productive. If there was any salary to be dumped here it would be on the part of the Pirates who hold all the cards where Reynolds is concerned.
Mjm117
Ed Cabrera, Bleday, Ian Lewis, and McCambley for Reynolds should get it done.
Ng get it done!
Robertowannabe
Bucs and Marlins have talked several times. Apparently they wanted more or else Ng would have already gotten it done.
Mjm117
They can ask all they want, Marlins, as well as other teams, are waiting for the price the drop.
Marlins can outbid most teams in terms of prospects. My proposed offer is mega strong. Probably more than NG would in reality want to give up
Bruin1012
Your offer is really not that strong I would be very disappointed in that offer if I was a Pirate fan. You aren’t getting a talent like Reynolds without a much better front piece. Those players work as a secondary pieces but overall it’s not nearly a strong enough offer. It’s also important to remember that the Pirates aren’t looking to trade him they are just smartly listening to offers and only if they are blown away do they trade Reynolds. They are perfectly happy to trot him out to center every game and build there future team around him.
jtkuch
I refer you to my previous dubble bubble reply
tiredolddude
Proving once again that really, there are no young Pirates the organization wishes to “build around”. This will go on…forever. Hey, but we have a beautiful ballpark and pierogi races
Robertowannabe
Actually, quite the opposite. If they were trying to trade him, they would just ship him to the highest bidder. In this case, they have the stance that if you really want him, you have to give us the Sun, Moon, and Stars for him and we are not budging because we are not looking to trade him.. Every team will trade any player but most never happen and we never hear about it. Trout could be had too, but not a team is willing to part with what it would take.
tiredolddude
Your logic is sound, of course, but with regards to the Pirates, where does it end? Maybe Reynolds *won’t* be the high level player we think he is over the course of the next 5 or 10 years but given what we’ve seen, it’s a good assumption that he will be. But in trading him for prospects, the Pirates are *hoping* for a strong haul based on what they’ve seen in the minors
I understand your comment completely. I just wonder if a struggling franchise shouldn’t look to have a cornerstone and face of the organization for a few years
rememberthecoop
Maybe they asked for Adam’s? If so, I dont blame the fathers for declining that ask.
mrpadre19
Hassell/Weathers/Campusano/Merrill should get it done.That’s “three”
First round picks,two in the top 100 and a 22 yr old Lefty who already has Ml experience and Merrill who will be a top 100 prospect in 1-2 years.
If they HAVE to have Abrams or Gore it just won’t happen IMO.
SportsFan0000
A vast over pay for 4 years of Reynolds and dead on arrival/won’t happen.
joew
not a good trade for the pirates.
None are at an elite type status
Pirates don’t need a prospect catcher
Weathers hasn’t impressed since making the jump to AAA. Maybe he was rushed and could stand to have another season in AAA
Not opposed to Hassell or Merrill. Both are quality but hardly the type you use at a headline. If you are looking at Reynolds’s 2019/21 performance anyway
At this time, with the pirates more inclined to build around him its going to take a kings ransom
SDHotDawg
Weathers was put on the team before he even had a full year in AA. He doesn’t need “another” season in AAA, he needs an actual full season.
Whubalabadubdub
Gore or Abrams would have to be in this. At least one.
rememberthecoop
Nigh? Steve are you high?
Whubalabadubdub
Padres don’t have the system beside Abrams and Gore. They’ve gutted their system.
Damn wish they could get an overpay from the marlins or mariners