The Phillies were often speculated as a suitor for Kris Bryant this winter, and USA Today’s Bob Nightengale reports that the team did indeed have interest in the former NL MVP. However, Bryant wanted as much long-term security as possible in the form of “at least a seven-year deal,” and he landed that desired contract with his seven-year, $182MM agreement with the Rockies. Philadelphia’s offer topped out at five years, Nightengale writes.
Given the terms, one wonders if the Phillies’ offer to Bryant was somewhat similar to the five-year, $100MM deal the club ended up giving to Nick Castellanos. Even that deal took some additional legwork, since as The Athletic’s Matt Gelb details, the front office first had to convince owner John Middleton that adding Castellanos was worth exceeding the luxury tax threshold for the first time in franchise history. Middleton has long stated that he was willing to pay the tax for a difference-making type of acquisition, and the end result is that the Phillies are now projected to sit above the $230MM threshold with an estimated $236.46MM tax number.
More from the NL East…
- While the Marlins have long coveted Pirates All-Star Bryan Reynolds, the Fish “weren’t planning on” dealing either Max Meyer or JJ Bleday in a trade package for the outfielder, Man On Second’s Joe Frisaro writes. Bleday was the fourth overall pick of the 2019 draft and Meyer the third pick in 2020, with both youngsters considered among the top 100 prospects in baseball, let alone just in Miami’s farm system. Pittsburgh is known to have a big asking price in any Reynolds trade, so it isn’t surprising that the Bucs are aiming high in their demands from the Marlins or other clubs. The Marlins do have a lot of quality minor league depth, so a Reynolds deal can’t be entirely ruled out even if the Fish don’t move either Meyer or Bleday. Frisaro notes that the Marlins are still looking at other center field options besides Reynolds, and the club is also looking for bullpen help either in trades or available free agents.
- Starling Marte has been sidelined by injury for the last week, though both Marte and Mets manager Buck Showalter believe the veteran outfielder will be ready for Opening Day, according to Deesha Thosar of The New York Daily News and other reporters. Marte’s injury is being described by the team as left oblique soreness, and Showalter said Marte underwent several tests to make sure there wasn’t any structural damage on Marte’s left side. However, Marte said that an MRI revealed “something, not a broken rib, but something,” adding somewhat evasively that it was “something like” an intercostal muscle issue.
- Kenley Jansen and Andrew Chafin each drew some interest from the Mets before signing elsewhere, SNY’s Andy Martino reports. For all of the Mets’ moves this winter, they have been relatively quiet on the bullpen front, though Adam Ottavino was recently added on a one-year, $4MM pact. However, quite a few notable veterans (i.e. Alex Claudio, Chasen Shreve, Felix Pena) have been added on minor league deals, and whatever younger arms aren’t in the rotation could also help out in the relief corps.
Mets injuries already
Mark it down. Missed WAR incoming.
Since it’s Spring Training, doesn’t this count as Missed STWAR?
MFB:
Only on May 4th.
It’s the Mets. He’s fine. Until it effects his performance. And then he just needs to play through it. He doesn’t need an MRI, two weeks later he gets one anyway. It shows significant injury but no matter, he keeps playing. Then his arm bursts into flames and the contract is a bust and Nimmo is back in CF. Until Nimmo starts to get hurt. But he’ll be fine, he just needs to play through it…
Isn’t Sixto out already? Same Fish, different year.
@VPH. LOL! Metsfan22 is going to have that thrown back at him for as long as his name remains the same though he is kind of a ghost these days. Still makes me laugh. =))
New season. Same Mess. LFG!
Reynolds would be perfect fit in Fenway Park’s right field.
It’s nice to dream
The price at this point is a minors-gutting haul for PIT. Best to wait this one out.
He keeps putting up the numbers and ask will remain the same for quite some time.
DD has made his big FA signs with the new club, made the trades, over the luxury tax threshold.. Now the base will demand a winner and big pressure comes.
I give him 2 more years in Philly.
Johnsilver – yes, DD can not stand being under the luxury tax threshold. Between Castellanos and Schwarber the Phillies outfield defense has to be one of the worst in the MLB, and defense absolutely matters! Then again DD should make one of them DH.
Can’t be much worse than Harper Cutch.
Still better than Klentak
Please keep in mind three things: They will never be in the field at the same time, the Phillies defense was actually worse last year, and Philly’s small left field doesn’t require much range. I’ll take Schwarber in the field over Cutch who couldn’t move much in 2021. I’m actually more concerned with the Phillies infield defense which wasn’t impacted by these signings.
Dombrowski does not know how to build a bp. That was Detroit’s downfall while he was here.
While Bryant was the better fit, Phillies got Castellanos and Schwarber for less than what Bryant is making. I got to give them credit there.
I think that’s a definite win for the Phillies.
If you need a house, getting a good deal on two tents…
Bryant is a house and the other two are tents? Hmmm… Ok, Bryant: 2021 3.3 WAR. Both the others there were 3.2,…. OPS+ : 124, 148, 136. (KB,KS,NC) Bryant is the lowest there. Career-wise Bryant is the best. But right now the house/tent comparison falls flat for me.
See the OP for the scouting report in this example, just providing the analogy here.
If the better player is the difference between success or not, it doesn’t matter how good a deal you get on the lesser ones.
Agreed. One can make up an analogy, but doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a good one.
And if the the depth provided by the lesser ones is the difference then you’re happy you didn’t spend on Bryant. That’s just speculation. Obviously whatever plan works becomes retroactively the smartest. It’s like a kind of circular logic. I just figure, to over simplify things, the Phillies just got 6.4 WAR for a lesser cost than 4.0 WAR would have cost. In short, they got more value for less spent.
@ Cosmo You’re comparing the total cost of the contracts with a year of WAR. It’s costing them far more annually next year, and for 3 years after that
You’re probably correct. I haven’t actually compared the details enough yet. Still, I think they did well to land two players instead of just one
There’s more to baseball than hitting. With Schwarber and Castellanos, you have one with a -35 OAA, and another with a -48 OAA. Literally defensive liabilities, While Bryant isn’t an exceptional defender, his -3 OAA puts him head and shoulders over the other 2.
I’d rather have Bryant.
Castellanos is a special class of terrible on the field but I’m not so sure that Bryant and Schwarber are that far apart, although Bryant plays a more valuable position.
@ VPH They are paying those two guys far more annually than what Bryant is making. Even more when you factor in the luxury tax
@fivepoundbass Yes. That’s another way of looking at it, but the Phillies filled two of their many holes instead of just filling in one. Bryant’s not a particularly good defender either. So to amend my statement a bit, I give credit that the Phillies were able to get two big bats rather than splurging on the more expensive one.
True, Bryant isn’t a particularly good defender, but you’re underrating how truly bad the other two are.
OAA:
Bryant -3
Schwarber -35
Castellanos -48
DRS:
Bryant 3
Schwarber -15
Castellanos -48 (It’s rare when OAA and DRS agree on an actual number)
I imagine Castellanos will act as a DH for the most part while Schwarber will be in the field. None of this contradicts your point though.
You seem to have a better grasp of these stats than I do. I’m not seeing Schwarber as a bad left fielder. It’s just the only place he can play. Ultimately I much prefer adding the two bats to the slight advantage Bryant’s not-terrible defense provides.
The problem I see is having to play Schwarber in the field on a full time basis. I think what would be ideal is to rotate him through the DH, and play him only part time in the field.
But, like I posted on another thread, the Phillies will score runs, and probably be involved in a lot of high scoring games. They will be fun to watch when they’re at bat. I could be wrong, but I’m not convinced it’s a winning formula.
If it’s Schwarber in left and Castellanos as DH, I figure they did the best they could right now. They should’ve had a better overall off season plan.
Comparing career long stats as defenders is poor. In that case Pujols is still a god tier defender at 1st.
@mydadleftme Brings up an excellent point. Bryant was a -6.3 last season. Schwarber -10. Neither great, but Schwarber and Castellanos provided significantly more offense. I’ll take the 2 over the 1.
Total money committed is only slightly higher for the 2,but the Phillies will be paying the 2 close to 40m a year,compared to 26per for Bryant.
@Von;
Said it before and will say it again…….
Dombrowski has built up 3 organizations in his career. None of them them same way. He’s going to do what he has to with what he has to work with. He doesn’t work in a linear manner. He takes what’s given to him then creates.
He knows he needs better, younger players.
Expect a few trades to be made this year which will possibly pull them back under the luxury tax. Hoskins is represented by Boras, and will demand a contract in the high 20’s-low 30’s starting in 2024.
I can see him moving Hoskins in-season for a few controlled players – for sure at least one pitcher. From there the Phillies can move Bohm to 1B if he’s hitting again, or possibly Harper…..which I think he’d be very good at…the guy’s intense, so instead of looking around in the OF between pitches he’d be up in the action on every pitch playing infield. His strong arm wouldn’t hurt either, and being a LH thrower he could throw across his body at any runner straying too far off of 2nd or 3rd on a ball hit or thrown to him.
Depends on if the Phillies have enough run producers to offset Hoskins bat. For sure he’s awful on D.
Problem is, Bohm is no better at 1st than he is at 3td. Really don’t know why so many people think this is the answer
@Phillls Exactly. In my mind, the infield defense is a far bigger concern than their outfield defense. It’s funny people keep bringing up Schwarber and Castellanos, but it’s Hoskins and Bohm who terrify me.
Move Harper to 1B.
The Bryant deal, however, was overt idiocy.
7/$182m for a 3 WAR 30 yo corner guy who wasn’t actually, you know, good, at any of those corners?
Spending $179m on Castellanos and Schwarber is bad, obviously, but not in that neighborhood of sheer, blighted incompetence.
Man I would happily trade both Meyer and Bleday for Reynolds. But I have to think the Pirates’ ask is even higher than that or else a trade would have been reached by now
Reynolds is not going anywhere unless they get at least two can’t miss and two more very good AA-AAA prospects.The problem with any prospect is that they can miss.
Nobody will give that up and the Pirates want to keep him anyway.
Reynolds isn’t the only CF out there. I’m glad the Marlins are sticking to their limits with trade talks.
On to Mullins and Laureano.
Mullins will def cost a bunch
Marlins were never interested in Reynolds. Look what Braves gave to get Olsen. Reynolds has double the team control. 2 top 100 picks would be a bargain.
lol … never interested? But yet a rumor each weeks suggests otherwise.
Never interested. Like a high school or college kid wanting to test drive the new Corvette.
You’d be surprised how many rumors are based on zero truth… pure speculation, very often
Kim Ng might have a University of Chicago degree, but she is one delusional woman if she thinks she can get Reynolds, an all-star with term left at a cheap price for second rate talent. At least two of the following guys would be in a trade – Cabrera, Meyer, Perez, Sanchez, or Bleday. She needs a reality check. A package of garbage prospects won’t happen and she thinks that it can. Move on to another option woman unless you come to your senses and understand value needs to go back not garbage.
@Aberdeen Why do you think the Pirates would NOW start making solid trades?
@ fivepoundbass19 & aberdeen101;
Because they have a new Baseball Ops head with an excellent track record and more experience?
That said – Reynolds has 3 years of control left. That would be fine if either the Pirates or Marlins were serious contenders this year or next. But the issue is that if he continues to play at the level he did in 2021, odds are that neither team will be able to afford him as he approaches FA. So I doubt that Ms. Ng is going to give up players with 6 years of control for him; and I believe if Cherington wants to move him it’ll probably be to a high revenue team in contention that can offer multiple prospects with 5-6 years of control.
I think there’s a good chance this never-ending Reynolds to Miami rumor is made up and that realistically Miami knows it’s unrealistic for them.
“fivepoundbass7 hours ago
@Aberdeen Why do you think the Pirates would NOW start making solid trades?”
Yeah, if only the Pirates could make solid trades like the one that got them Reynolds, right?
Reynolds actually has 4 years of control per Cots.
Ng might have more to deal with than you think…The Guppies are supposed to have a huge load of quality pitchers in the farm system..do not count her short..
aberdeen, what makes you think Ng thinks she can get Reynolds for “garbage prospects?” It seems lots of teams have made proposals to the Pirates, and none of them has been acceptable. You make an offer, it’s accepted or not, and you pivot if it’s not. Again, there is nothing to indicate she has only proposed dealing “garbage prospects” for Reynolds, just not enough for Pittsburgh to make a deal.
The Phillies are a pretty good example of why you need homegrown talent and/or an affordable core first, before you supplement with FAs in order to have a solid team. They have a very expensive roster that still has quite a few ?s. Hopefully they can get in the playoffs with the expanded field
You can buy a playoff spot. They just didn’t spend the money wisely. But yes I would much rather build a team from prospects and then add the missing pieces.
I will say, that it’s less about not spending wisely and more about not drafting and scouting. It’s amazing that the 2012 rebuild and all those good draft picks from the following years lead to this little. That takes a special combination of stupidity and bad luck. Phillies had both.
Amen to that
Von-But where are going to play all these DH’s?They have at least three now and that is without 15-20 games each for Realmuto and Harper.
And what happens if Bohm hits but cannot field?
And they still need one $8M starter and at least one $5M reliever.
Fielding results are going to be brutal.
I just question the need for Castellanos.
One thing for sure,though,They have to win at least 90 games this year.
Castellanos is the DH, Schwarber is a better fielder than Cutch and will play LF. if Bohm is a liability than Stott, Muñoz, or Toe replaces him. it’s that simple.
Dark side – Cutch is gone
that’s the point. they’ve improved LF defense between the past two years and the only change in the lineup besides Schwarber is Castellanos, but he’ll probably DH more often than not.
Cutch has regressed so bad that Schwarber is a better fielder? Wow.
I’m serious. Cutch had no range and his arm was woefully bad. Schwarber also has bad range, but his arm is much better in comparison.
Is Schwarber really that bad of a fielder at all? His stats would suggest he’s competent, to the extent that I understand them.
Defensively, Cutch and Schwarber are similar. If Schwarber is better, it’s only slightly. I wouldn’t count on him being significantly better than Cutch.
Last season Cutch had -7 DRS, while Schwarber had -5. Also last season, Schwarber had -6 OAA, while Cutch had -5. They’re pretty much the same in terms of defensive value.
Right. So similar defense, but significantly better offense. The Phillies real problem is their defense at SS, 3B amd 1B.
@Mendoza As Darkside pointed out below the Phillies had a terrible defense in 2021. In fact, Schwarber/Castellanos (one fields the other DHs) may actually be an improvement on Cutch who fielded LF last year. Keep in mind it’s a small outfield so range isn’t the concern. The Phillies clearly have defensive deficiencies, but with Stott coming up at some point, I think they’ll be better off than they were last year in that regard. Their offense is drastically improved. It’s the best on-paper lineup I’ve ever seen the Phillies have. The team still has problems and they aren’t as “complete” as their division rival Braves and Mets, but they’re going to rake and definitely have a shot at the playoffs and perhaps division.
Von- Points well taken,but they would have benefitted by using Hoskins as DH,with breaks for Realmuto and Harper.Both signings basically negate that plan.
Their lineup will be a nightmare for opposing pitchers,but the defense is still a nightmare for their own,
I think that Didi May come back well,but if not, is Stott a fine fielding shortstop?
DD May end up trading Hoskins or Bohm for pitching.Hopefully,he realizes that they still need some as the inevitable injuries will occur.
A current day Murderers Row is a great thing to have,and,at the very least will be entertaining,but good pitching and fine defense will win in the playoffs along with clutch hitting.
My last point was not finished in that Giraldi has to win with this team,and Middleton will not be pleased with DD if they do not win at least 90 games.
To emphasize your point about Hoskins, Alec Bohm was an even worse fielder over at 3rd. So that’s just a disastrous defense all around. I cannot see this defense taking a title home, but I do think it opens the door for trade opportunities. Hoskins’ bat plays really well and it’d be a shame to lose it, but I wouldn’t be shocked if he’s moved if this experiment doesn’t work.
True. Even if Stott’s bat does not come around, his defense will be better than Didi’s. There are certainly some major defensive issues with this team, but it will be slightly better than last season. If that could just get that bullpen figured out…
Totally agree that no matter how good Stott is, he’ll be an improvement over Didi. From the stats I’ve looked at Didi was the worse SS in all of MLB. That’s a position where I would take a good-glove/no-hit guy over a bad glove guy every time.
Dombrowski dodged a bullet here. Castellanos, who is the same age as Bryant, for two years less and Schwarber, one year younger, for three less was big. that and getting them at less overall combined.
I’m not sure if I’d go over the tax threshold for him. Not really one I consider a difference maker
Going over 1 year is no biggie. Maybe trade off salary if they don’t contend. Dip back under next year.
I actually think DD should make another move. The Phillies are already over the tax. Why face penalties for what amounts to 1 million in extra taxes? Might as well add a number 4/5 starter or bullpen arm. The As have both to trade, though I don’t know what the Phillies could even offer that doesn’t absolutely wreck their thin farm. Still, DD might as well make full use of the penalty and round out the team a bit more.
He needs to find a way to get Didi off the books if they want to get under the tax.
They potentially free up a ton next year. So taking the hit for 1-year is fine.
I think Chasen Shreve will make the roster for the Mets. He’s the best lefty bullpen option they have and has been decent over the past couple years. I don’t think they were looking to spend more on the pen after it became the luxury tax situation was not going to improve with the CBA.
Agree on Shreve. But if Claudio & Peña crack the major league roster, then that bullpen is in trouble. Chafin would have been a good addition
“While the Marlins have long coveted Pirates All-Star Bryan Reynolds, the Fish “weren’t planning on” dealing either Max Meyer or JJ Bleday in a trade package for the outfielder, Man On Second’s Joe Frisaro writes. Bleday was the fourth overall pick of the 2019 draft and Meyer the third pick in 2020, with both youngsters considered among the top 100 prospects in baseball, let alone just in Miami’s farm system. ”
“We’ll give you two Giancarlo Stanton jerseys and a PTBNL for Reynolds, what do you think?”
Obviously that is what the genius with the University of Chicago degree thinks she can give up for Reynolds. That is why she isn’t getting him.
out of pocket much?
I wouldn’t give up Meyer and Bleday either. Why trade 2 huge upside, near ready prospects for 1 outfielder? Reynolds alone while removing those two from Miami’s current talent pool just creates a hole. Not to say that Reynolds is not worth that kind of talent but in this case it’s probably not in Miami’s best interest at this time. Besides, until Reynolds is traded we won’t know what he is really worth. I doubt anyone else has offered a similar deal because PIT would be nuts to turn it down.
Marte games missed:
16 33
17 85
18 17
19 30
21 42
And he is 32 years old.
take out 2017 (suspension) and that’s about how many games Trout misses a year now.
Something that people don’t realize about the Phillies is the volatility of the fans. The team hasn’t made the postseason since 2011 and during their rebuild, the fans stopped showing up. This is a problem the 76ers had while they were “trusting the process” and the Flyers are facing now. The Eagles are the only Philly team that draws the die hard fans no matter what.
The Phillies absolutely jumped the gun with their spending spree three years ago but it was almost necessary because the fans were growing restless. They drafted poorly during the rebuild, especially from 2015-17, and didn’t have much of a core in place once the spending started. This led to the issues we see now. It also didn’t help that the Braves were building a long term sustainable juggernaut at the same time.
To put it bluntly, the Phillies are at a point where they can’t just sit on their hands and hope for the best but they also can’t kick off another rebuild. For better or worse they have to go all in for the next couple years and hope to at least make the postseason
Marte injured already? But but but he’s in such good shape! He’ll never get injured despite his age – Mets fans
Mets signed a bunch of 33+ year olds and think they are a playoff team.
The Mets will pay 3 players almost 120M this year :
Lindor: 34M
Degrom: 36M – 1 more YOC
Scherzer: 43M – 3 YOC
and then not have a bullpen.
SMH
Not to mention that their ‘4th’ OFer will get 150 starts, and they’re giving at least 50 starts to Peterson, Yamamoto, and worse.
Mets are likely to have a long, long season.
…..and now Schwarber is a “good” outfielder, but he was a liability in LF for the Cubs. I always said that he was a pretty good outfielder with a very strong arm, but I get pissed off when “fans” comments are contradictory…One good thing people should add is that a team can count on Kyle if he were injured, he’ll find himself out of the DL very fast. He is a tough guy and heals very quickly (2016 injury was supposed to be a season ending one ). Phillies fans should only pray that Girardi better doesn’t leadoff a lineup with Kyle, as I had seen many fans mention in these posts. That was a failed experiment of Joe Maddon, which almost ruined Kyle’s MLB career.
I’m not a fan of Kyle leading off either, but he was very successful at it last year for both the Nats and Sox.
Making the post-season should be the Phillies game plan. Braves only won 88 games last year, 19 fewer than the Giants, and they became world champions.
One thing is for certain with the Phillies this season, we won’t be seeing them on Web Gems very often, if at all. Plus, we still are weak in CF.
Dombro has a history of spending big. Bummer is, once he’s finished with his win-now approach, his former teams end up in the dumpster.
In three years, maybe less, Phils will be looking to get out from under the Schwarber and Castellanos’ contracts. Maybe Harper’s, too?
The aav on all the big congrats is not bad. I don’t see these as crippling at all. I mean look at how much contracts are increasing yearly. 20aav seems like it’ll be league average in 5 years.
I’ve been reading so much negativity the past few days.. I think some clarity might be in order..
First, the Phillies hung with the Bravos all year with a really weak cast. Nola had a down year. Hoskins was injured and was out. Bohm forgot how to hit and never did learn how to play third. The team played Russian Roulette in center until the stayed with Goofy in center. DiDi was hurt and that had a bunch to do with his play at short..
The pen was, well, no words can describe them..
As for the D of either Swarber or Castilanos, they both can catch and throw. It is their range that has been the issue. Just for the record, Goofy has a very good arm also.
To sum up, The pen is better..the lineup is really deep and while we are in agreement, the D is not good, I really think it is not horrible..
This is as optimistic as I can get…PLAY BALL!
@ DadsInDaniaBeach;
Agree.
It’s why I write that in 2021 the NLE was the worst division in MLB. All the teams had major flaws. Anthopoulos made a series of moves going into the trade deadline that worked…..and I believe one reason they worked was that those players came to a division where the quality of their opponents was awful.
All NLE teams will be better in 2022. And will be competitive with one another as they were in 2021. But they still have weaknesses – just not as many as 2021.
@DadsInDaniaBeach I had no hope before these signings. None whatsoever. I wish the Phillies had better defense, but they don’t. I think their lineup is must-see TV. So I’m in general agreement with you. Of course the Braves are better on paper. The Metsies look better on paper too. But the Phillies are at least in the conversation if all goes right. All never goes right, but the Phils gave me a reason to watch. So I’m hopeful, but more importantly, I’m excited about baseball.
VPH-And your last statement is the reason many of us are on this site.
It’s the most exciting time of the year. Everyone is in it.
Yeah so what this says is the Marlins are not getting Bryan lol.
But yeah the Marlins do have a lot of quality prospects but for Reynolds you need top end if not elite prospect package Mayer fits pretty perfectly for the pirates. Unless a different package is overwhelming then i don’t see any deal with out Mayer.
They need someone who will be everyday MLB going into 2024 (if not sooner) and he is a starter who has a great shot at staying in the rotation if probably the top of.
So it comes down to the Marlins saying.. We want to win now and can afford to sacrifice a prospect pitcher to do so.
IMO: i were the marlins (me not knowing much about they’re situation) i’d strongly consider letting Mayer go if they’re getting a ‘win now’ piece, even if it isn’t Bryan.
their