The Cubs have overhauled a good portion of their roster this winter. Among the most impactful moves was bringing in veteran backstop Yan Gomes — the top catcher in this year’s free agent crop — on a two-year deal prior to the lockout.
That has naturally led to some trade speculation regarding incumbent catcher Willson Contreras, who’s entering his final year of club control. There hasn’t been much firm indication the Cubs have shopped the 29-year-old this winter, but they’d also yet to open talks regarding a possible long-term extension with his representatives as of last week.
Speaking with Bruce Levine of 670 The Score over the weekend, an emotional Contreras acknowledged the possibility he could either be dealt or depart the organization via free agency next winter. “This is something that is really tough for me,” the two-time All-Star said. “Personally, the relationships I have with the team, players and fans, (leaving would) be something that will be really tough to take. This is something very emotional for me, knowing all that I have had to go through to get to this point. It’s going to be really tough and very emotional.”
Levine reports that the Yankees and Padres are among the teams that have checked in with the Cubs to gauge Contreras’ availability, although it’s not clear if any discussions are currently ongoing. Chicago certainly doesn’t have to trade the right-handed backstop, as the implementation of the universal designated hitter could allow manager David Ross to pencil both him and Gomes into the lineup on a regular basis. The Cubs’ fairly active offseason suggests they’re not punting the 2022 campaign entirely, and keeping both players would give the team enviable depth behind the dish and the opportunity to lengthen the overall lineup.
That said, one could argue that having Contreras and Gomes as a 1A/1B tandem between catcher and designated hitter isn’t an optimal deployment of those players. Both are good hitters for catchers, but neither has the kind of offensive track record that’d make them great fits as regular options at the DH spot. Contreras is the better offensive player of the duo, but even he falls a bit shy of the typical output expected from the bat-only position.
Contreras has been an above-average hitter by measure of wRC+ in each of his six career seasons. Going back to the start of 2020, he owns a .239/.345/.429 line, numbers that check in nine percentage points above the league average. That’s markedly better than the .230/.307/.392 figure put up by catchers around the league, but it’s not elite middle-of-the-order output overall. Most American League teams have increasingly preferred to cycle various regulars through the DH spot as quasi-rest days unless they have an excellent bat-only player to plug in. Just seven hitters tallied 300+ plate appearances as a DH last year; of that group, only Miguel Cabrera didn’t outhit Contreras.
While he might not be a great fit for semi-regular DH time, Contreras should hold plenty of appeal to catching-needy teams. The Yankees make an unsurprising possibility after trading away Gary Sánchez. New York is presently slated to roll with Kyle Higashioka and Ben Rortvedt behind the dish. That duo figures to be capable defensively but doesn’t seem likely to come close to Contreras’ production at the plate.
The Padres making a run would be more surprising, as San Diego already has something of a logjam at catcher. Contreras’ price tag could also prove problematic for the Friars. MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz projects him for an $8.7MM salary in his final year of arbitration. That’d come with a matching luxury tax hit, and the Padres already have around $224MM in CBT commitments, in the estimation of Jason Martinez of Roster Resource. Acquiring Contreras would push the Friars right up against or perhaps past the $230MM base tax threshold, and Dennis Lin of the Athletic wrote last week the club would prefer to not surpass the CBT marker for the second straight season.
Aside from Contreras, there don’t seem to be many options for teams looking to upgrade behind the plate before the start of the season. Almost all the free agent options at the position have been signed, and there aren’t any other teams who seem likely to make regulars available in trade. The A’s might entertain the possibility of moving Sean Murphy, but that seems unlikely since he has yet to even reach arbitration eligibility. The trade market may just consist of depth types like Reese McGuire and Jorge Alfaro if the Cubs elect to hold onto Contreras.
He’s not worth JT Realmuto or Sal Perez money, but the Cubs should sign the man. He’s the guts of the team.
Trade him for a bag of balls
Contreras for Zach Collins or Seby Zavala!
He’s a top 5 catcher. Trading him.with Amaya out for the year would be really dumb. 5 years and between 75-80mil. 6th year player option. Opt out after the 4th year(’26)
Well now he is lol
To think that Contreras was the 1st name to float around before they broke up the team at the trading deadline.
As always, we await developments.
I hope the Yankees stay away. He will be expensive probably costing one of the SS prospects and knowing Cashman’s ability to gauge prospect talent he will send them the future allstar and keep the ..600 OPS error prone future AAAA player. Losing Caleb Smith, Whittlock, Kahnle and worst of all Luis Torrens to the rule 5 shows how bad he is at judging talent. Torrens should be replacing Sanchez this year and was known to be a very solid catching prospect. He hurt his arm and Cashman didnt protect him and he was drafted second and Preller immediately traded for him. Of course the best talent evaluator would pick up the worst evaluators mistake. Having to tolerate Sanchez and then trading him when his contract year finally arrives will hopefully get Cashman fired after he has his MVP caliber season. If he liked Donaldson so much why wasn’t he all over Beane before Billy sent him to the Jays for free uniform laundry service and an ITunes gift card with 47 cents left on it?
Contreras only has 1 year of control left. That won’t come close to requiring one of our top SS prospects
@Joesph Gonzalez- a young arm or 2 for Hendricks, but your right Contreras shouldn’t be too expensive as a rental. Trust me the Cubs are so afraid to trade him with the fans reaction afterwards. The Cubbies are my favorite NL team so I know. If one is traded it will probably be Contreras though. If the Padres offer Campusano for Willson he is going to SD. I imagine that’s who Chicago wants back.
I will be stunned if Contreras isn’t flipped
We could offer a switch-hitting backstop in Caratini, 2 dozen Titleist Pro-V1s, an annual pass to Sea World and a free fish taco on Tuesdays.
Given the Yankees state in regards to the luxury tax
Contreras and cash for
Britton, Hicks, Dominguez and cash starting in 2023
Cubs cover all Conteras’s salary for 2022 giving the Yankees wiggle room at the trade deadline.
Uh, ooohhhhh…….
Major blitz of ridiculous Yankee fans one-sided trade proposals incoming….none of which will include the types of players the Cubs would want in return.
P.S. Cubs fans – let them know you already have Frazier.
Do the yankee proposals include their explanation about the sign stealing scam about to break in the news?
What’s this now ?
There is no new scandal, I believe you are referring to the US Appeals court decision about unsealing the letter sent back in 2017, relating to the misuse of Apple watch(es) and the dugout phone in 2015… please be apart of the solution and not the problem with misinformation that plagues our society.
I’m no expert on the case, but as it is part of the compliant filed by Draft Kings, I’d be more inclined to think any of the teams mentioned would rather no direct evidence that may bring any doubt and risk civil or further legal complaints.
“please be apart of the solution and not the problem with misinformation that plagues our society.”
“There is no new scandal”
I don’t see where that poster said there was a new scandal. Please be a part of the solution…
Jopeness is just mad it will be officially made public that Yankees are no better than rhe Astros, Red Sox, and Cardinals for supreme ethical play. Irony? Look at the payroll of these teams….still need to cheat.
MiSiNfOrMaTiOn
‘about to break in the news’..
No reason for the Cubs to be in a hurry. They can wait for a market to develop if no one wants to pony up. This time of year, everyone is in love w/ their own prospects…
They risk an injury or a dip in performance.
Risk of injury or performance decrease to every player in the game.
Cubs are not going anywhere this year and have a really good asset. Either sign him to an extension or trade him now while his value is so high
I totally agree.
That’s fair, as the Cubs are kinda doing a retool on the fly, but if there was any other time to deal a catcher, now would be it. There’s no starting caliber backstop on the FA market, so the market would be heavily in the Cubs’ favor.
Cubbies should keep him for sure, and with the ability to eventually move him to DH, could give him a 6 year deal. They just signed Suzuki, they signed Stroman to go with Hendricks. They have some nice building blocks in those 4 and some good young talent. Catchers with .350 OBP and 112 OPS+ are hard to come by. Sign the man.
The catching market is horrible every single year and their top catching prospect seems plagued with setbacks. I don’t know what I am missing but offer this man an extension.
They have Gomes on a super reasonable 3 yr deal.
Gomes is 34 years old . I highly doubt he’s going to be catching 100 games much longer. There is nothing wrong with keeping both of them and having a 65-35 split with some occasional dh time.
I never get the whole “they can move him to DH” argument for signing long contracts. You’re paying him to be a catcher; his value plummets as a DH (especially considering the bat will decline too). It’s like buying an expensive laptop cuz even if it stops working you can use it as a paperweight. Plus, you can only have one DH yet fans make this claim with almost every big contract. He’s very valuable as a catcher. Not very valuable as a DH.
I don’t think he was saying move him to full time dh but I could be wrong. If they extend Contreras there is no reason he can’t catch 105-115 games for the next 4-5 years and get another 10-15 at dh. He’s an above average hitter who gets on base.
Sure yea, if that’s what was meant it makes more sense.
I think they probably mean Contreras catches, but on his “days off”, he’ll DH. In other words, Contreras will get alotta AB’s if they don’t have a better DH option. And I wouldn’t DH Gomes at all. They gotta have a better option than him on the team.
I’d imagine Wisdom will get a lot of dh at bats and put Villar at 3rd or vice versa. They have some pretty good infield depth. Nico probably going to be playing everywhere. I just hope heyward doesn’t get 400 abs this year.
Personally, I want the Cubs to give Contreras an extension. He could be a great role model for the younger players, and help them understand what takes to become a world champion.
Keeping him is the best option imo. Unless there is a young phenom coming up through the system, they won’t find a more solid backstop than Contreras anywhere.
I’d like to see what his offensive output would look like if he played 3B or LF/RF on a regular basis instead of catching. With fresh legs, he could be a much bigger force.
For one year of a catcher making $6M… it really wouldn’t take much in a trade. Maybe someone like King/Clarke or another pitching prospect plus a low A prospect, pitcher or catcher.
Conteras’ low pay would only make him more valuable. It would absolutely take way more than that to get a deal done with Contreras. The ball is in the Cubs’ court because they have the only starting caliber backstop on the market.
@mlb1225 –
Do you know when newly signed free agents are allowed to be traded? Don’t teams have to wait unti June before they can?
Thanks
I don’t have any idea. I just know you can’t sign a guy and trade him the next week.
Ducky, June…
I thought June too.
I can’t seem to find the magic combo of words on the google to confirm it.
Thanks Bucky and Clip!!!
Yeah dude what are you talking about? Contreras has really good trade value. I se him fetching 2-3 top 10 or 15 prospects, one of which should be big league ready
I dunno… catchers don’t tend to fetch very much compared to star pitchers. It’s still just a year of service, and the Cubs don’t need him on the team. A top ten prospect plus one lower level prospect is all I expect it would take. A younger, major league ready pitcher like Gil, Schmidt, Garcia, King, plus one other prospect should do it.
No chance they could get 2 or 3 top 10 or 15 propects for 1 year of a mediocre bat.
20+ HR catchers with a respectable OBP don’t grow on trees.
2-3 ?!! Hehe Maybe 24rd ranked prospect from the Padres
2-3 top 10’s? LOL
GIANTS!!
Be nice if the Yankees could send Chapman to the Cubs again.
It would cubs got a World Series to end a curse and 108 year drought . Yankees loved the next Jeter in Torres. How many ships do the Yankees have since trade ?
Knowing the padres, I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re interested in him to play left field
The Padres don’t need him. Their catching is mediocre, but not horrible. Campusano is set to inherit that position if he can produce. One year of Contreras for a high-end prospect or two? I don’t think even AJ is that dumb.
Time to spend some of your precious prospect capital, Brian Cashman.
It’s swell that we have all these highly regarded SS prospects. Really. It is. We don’t need all of them though. Offense looks a little shaky, too.
Oswaldo Peraza to the Cubs for Wilson Contreras & a lottery ticket.
Ducky,
Either of the 2 catchers would be an upgrade for the Yankees. Of course, I’d rather have Contreras, but I’d take Gomes!!!!
We should have just signed Gomes, Mick.
Unfortunately, as he just signed this winter he is ineligible to be traded until June. So: Contreras Or Bust, bro.
Are you sure? You can’t a player that was a free agent until June.
If you’re right we have no choice we’ll have to overpay and get someone. Really bad offseason for Cashman so far!!!!
Yeah.
At least it was a rule before the new CBA. I guess I am assuming it still is. Hold on. @mlb1225 is on the board. Bet he knows.
you can trade the guy, but only if he consents (as in, every free agent like him gets a full no trade clause until june 15th, but could still be traded if he waives it, which in his case would probably be willing to in exchange for a trade bonus, extra year, etc…).
That’s it! Perfect. Merci.
Should have signed Realmoto or Grandal but it obviously takes many years to get enough data for your Jr high analytics team to figure out if Sanchez is a MLB catcher or not.
Emac: You’re right! Certainly Realmuto but I forgot about Grandal too!
A) Padres? They have three catchers!
B) Cashman, listen slowly…………. Get……him.
The longer Cash takes to do what I want, the more irritated I become with him. Why in the world has this not happened yet, Clip?
Just seems so obvious. On both sides.
Hasn’t happened, just maybe because cash is an incompetent GM.
So there’s that.
Pads have 4 catchers!
Show off.
@Yankee Clipper- you’re absolutely right if SD offers Campusano for Contreras he is going there. Alex Vargas is a piece the Cubs would want back, and Deivi Garcia also. Andujar would be more of a throw in and he’s cheap and versatile. 3rd, leftfield, lst, and dh, and he’s got power.
I think the yanks would ask them to take on Britton for peraza and then include a lottery themselves.
Huh.
Yeah, that would work too wouldn’t it? & that would really fit Cash’s style.
Solid take ☝
Nothing updated from this morning
I’d roll with both catchers if I’m the Cubs.
Agreed. See what you have first, but also consider a trade to a good team that encounters a devastating injury at catcher. It will happen to someone.
Contreras and Hendricks to the Yankees as been a trade I’ve been begging for. For a fair price of course
Well, that certainly would clear up most of our problems, serious.
From my perspective, Contreras is the more acute need. After the Sanchez/Donaldson trade, the next obvious move was to re-sign Rizzo. I really felt the next obvious step after that was to then trade for Contreras.
He is certainly available. Though the Cubbies won’t be giving him up for junk.
I’m the hugest fan of Hendricks and I’m jealous the cubs have him. He has the balls to pitch in this city too as he showed during that historic cubs 2016 post season
Are you saying the Donaldson trade and signing Rizzo were obvious moves?
Because they were the best moves for the team or because Cashman is such a predictable boob?
They might be obvious moves based on the Yankees current attempt to play a plucky small market teams but Rizzo and Donaldson are absolute loser moves made by a team that isn’t trying to win anything.
It’s an embarrassment and completely contrary for a team that always plays at the top of the market to spend big money targeting 3rd tier old guys on short term deals.
@Joesph Gonzalez- you read my mine. Contreras and Hendricks for Deivi Garcia, Alexander Vargas, Michael King, and Miguel Andujar. Bounce back year for Deivi. King and Andujar can help them now. Vargas will help my Cubies in a few years.
On BBTV that doesn’t even get the Yankees Contreras. Let alone Contreras + Hendricks.
& I see why.
If Chicago trades him, it won’t be for a bunch of roster flotsam. It will require Real Prospects. Andujar & Garcia are worth nothing. King very little, & Vargas is a 45 grade prospect who is years away.
I would love to see that trade.
It just isn’t very realistic though.
Andujar would just be a throw in to clear up a 40 man roster spot and nothing more. Since Hendricks has multiple years of team control a trade for him and Contreras would need to require a actual fair offer
@Ducky- maybe the Yankees would include Schmidt in the trade instead of Deivi for Hendricks, but not Luis Gil. But I disagree the Cubs would definitely have interest in Vargas, who is just a few years away. He doesn’t have the power of Peraza, but he is still a good prospect. Andujar can play 3rd base, left field, play some lst and dh. Cubbies need his power.
Andujar has no value, especially to a cubs team already maxed on the 40 man. They would want an even swap of 40 man. I could see them liking a Sweeney/ Wells package.
Ducky, as an aside, SSTN just completed their CF Determinator article, and out of all the CFers, Mullins finished 1st. So, you were right in your assessment when you pined for getting him. And, even though he did it by such strong offensive performance, not defense, it wouldn’t matter because the GGs on each side of him.
But, thought you’d be interested to know your personal assessment of Mullins statistically bore out by measure of 16 different metrics combined, to give Mullins the highest score of the CFers in MLB. Impressive man. Imagine that bat in the lineup….
I really like that kid.
No chance they could get 2 or 3 top 10 or 15 propects for 1 year of a mediocre bat.
Since he is one of the best catchers in the game, there is no other reason to not sign him. Maybe he doesn’t hit like a Posey or Realmuto, but he has a cannon for an arm and the runs saved is also a bonus.
To Cubs:
Peraza SS
To Yankees:
Contreras C
Hendricks SP
Marquez LHP
BBTV says this is a fair trade.
I think the real problem with that is; I don’t think the Cubs are all that interested in a “fair trade.”
Rather, they will be looking for an overpay.
Especially so with a team that seems like they are going to run Higashioka & Rortvedt out there.
We need to make this trade. The Cubs do not.
Sure, add in some extra players.
With that said, if the cubs are in rebuilding mode, you would want some opportunities to fill spots with youth again. Plus, they shed salary for future FA signings.
What would you suggest?
The Cubs aren’t rebuilding. Not yet anyway.
They’ve been more active than we have!
First I abandon trying to get Hendricks & Contreras. I see absolutely no reason why the Cubs would trade a starting pitcher. None. Again: they are trying to avoid an all out rebuild. They want to be competitive.
Contreras is a different situation entirely. They have Gomes this year & next. They feel they have their catcher of the future already too. Contreras is surplus.
I posted my trade proposal above.
I think it’ll take something like that as opposed to to a bunch of marginal MiLB players. Why would they trade him for that kind of stuff? Ya know?
@Ducky
Yeah, I get what you mean. I just don’t value the current Cubs lineup and pitching staff as much as people are giving it value.
Based on BP’s current standings: baseballprospectus.com/standings/
The Cubs are are 20 game below .500.
Now, let’s be liberal and say they win 81 instead of 71., they would possibly be a newly minted wild-card spot. Anything could happen in the playoffs but I don’t see them built for the long-run.
I’ll agree that they would be looking to overpay and I’d agree that we should overpay but I also think that it would make sense for the Cubs to dump Contreras & Hendricks and get some youth in return and possibly some MLB-ready players right now.
With that said, I doubt with the current Yankee management, that they are interested in making this deal. I think they’re looking further into the future of possibly signing Soto or even trading for him at some point down the line. I don’t see the Yankees upgrading the catcher spot until at least the trade deadline.
Yeah.
I’ll by that, York. But front office’s can be stubborn about that stuff.
But: yeah.
I think it is wishful thinking on our part. I certainly see the appeal, man. Stabilize the rotation & add .200 of OPS to the catcher spot. That would be huge.
I would apologize to Cash for the negative thoughts I have been harboring towards him & send him a bottle of Macaulay if he traded for Hendricks & Contreras.
Man. We would look so much better.
I’m convinced Cashman at some point hired a private investigator and has comprising pictures of his boss Hal. Cashman loves to hug those prospects till sometimes it’s too late to get any value from them if they bust.
The Cubs are going to be looking for an overpay. They have no imediate reason to trade Contreras, and they have a solid team going into 2022. If by summer they’re not looking so hot, they might lower their asking price. But right now, they have the ball in their court.
@mlb1225
True, they do. I’m just having some fun with the simulator. I’d rather present somewhat fair trades than propose ridiculous trades like Contreras & Hendricks for Sikkema, LHP.
How would you restructure the trade to make it happen?
I’d take out Marquez. I don’t see the Cubs dealing from their farm. Just based on the simulator, Luis Gil and Deivi Garcia would be a fair package for just Contreras alone. I could see it as Garcia isn’t that far removed from being a top 100 prospect and Gil, at the very least, looks like a potential lockdown closer. A bump in command and a slight improvement in his change-up could change that though. While Contreras is a quality catcher, he still only has 1 year of control remaining. However that’s just based on the simulator. A team in that desprate need of catching should be willing to overpay, and will need to since, like I said before, the Cubs have no rush in moving Contreras.
Do you make that trade (Gil + Deivi for Contreras) if you’re Brian Cashman?
It’d be very tempting. You’d get a quality catcher on both sides of the ball and solve the biggest weakness on your team. The only downside is that he only has 1 year of control remaining, but you have to give up something to get something of quality.
Every day and twice on Sunday!!! I do like Gil though.
I very well may, and would certainly do it if the Cubs added LHR Weick & then I’d extend Contreras, even if only short-term, high AAV to be secure for 2-3 years & let Rortvedt get experience under him.
The trades I posted are: get it done trades. Ones that I accounted for the shortage in the C market & asking price of the Cubs. I think it does it. I agree with you that Cabrera *should* get it done. 1225 has it right though, they’re going to go A’s style and ask really high.
Why? Our current strength is pitching in the farm & we do have that luxury (as well as SS, coincidentally). Contreras still rates as one of the top-10 catchers & will for the next 2-3 years. I’m good with it.
So…yes?
It’s interesting to get a viewpoint of a dispassionate party. I know Clipper & Micky do that trade (as do I) in a heartbeat. We couldn’t say yes fast enough! Bet. But: we are decidedly not dispassionate about it.
Duckers and Clip- Extending Willson once you procured him for those 2 arms would make sense… and help offset the acquisition cost. Good luck amigos!
The Yankees trade the cubs Cole and the Yankees receive Alzolay and Bryce ball. The book says it’s fair
@Old York- Peraza wasn’t going to be traded for Matt Olson, so he definitely won’t be traded for Contreras. But I can definitely see shortstop prospect Alexander Vargas and Deivi Garcia going to the Cubs in a trade for Willson Contreras.
BBTV is obviously flawed if a trade of Peraza would net Contreras, Hendricks, and Marquez. There is literally zero chance the Cubs take that trade.
They wait to long to trade their players. Theo said that to. They missed all the draft picks and good prospects by trading at end of their last season.
I’ve seen at least 4 of the guys they received in trades last year in one of the 5 top 100 lists. They also got Madrigal and Heuer who are going to be on the 25 man roster for years to come. I’d say they did a really good job. They won the division in 2020 and were actively trying to extend players all the way up to the 2021 trade deadline.
Queue the typical asinine Samuel rhetoric towards Yankees fans & articles.
“Me Samuel. Me smarter than dumb-dumb Yankees fans who say, ‘I want.’” Me write lots of words. Me say you wrong!”
At least some trolls are entertaining &/or funny. This dude needs lessons in either, or both.
Do you find it semi-creepy how fascinated he is with us, or nah? He posts about the Yankees or our fans pretty much every thread I see.
Is he some kind of…I dunno; stalker?
He craves attention. Let’s not give it to him. I’m not sure what’s fair for Contreras? But the Yankees will have to do an overpay to get him. That could be a problem for Cashman.
I would say a reasonable return of one top-10, one top-15, and one or two more. If I were to put names to paper:
– Wells
– Schmidt
– Periera; or
– Gil
– Cabrera; or
– Sweeney
– Medina
– Salinas
Something along those lines should be a near deal. That’s even a lot for one year, but Contreras is good, catching is a premium. They can go many different ways/combinations & those are off the top of my head, so may need a bit of rearranging. They want pitching though.
Atta boy.
See, you & I are spenders. Not huggers. Problem: Cash is a hugger.
I think it would be something like
Yankees get:
Contreras
Cubs get:
Randy Vasquez
Peraza
I think people forget that these are prospects. Most of them do not work out and the only reason the Cubs have to trade Contreras would be to fill a need they have with near major league-ready talent. Both Vasquez and Peraza could turn out to be great, but they could also just be busts. The Yankees would be getting one of the best backstops in MLB. They could also work it out where they have a window to extend Contreras before making the trade.
If they are able to extend Contreras, then Paraza would be ok. If not, then it would be Wells.
Well…I just saw the part he added about Frazier. That was actually a pretty good jab.
Perhaps there is hope for him after all.
Yankees and Padres are burning up the phones to the Cubs front office.
Padres might have a slight advantage of being able to ship back a backup. Cashman will have to pay a heavy prospect haul if he wants Willie.
The Yankees don’t need Contreras. He’d be a nice get, but he’d be a luxury.
Assuming Rortvedt is going to be back from his injury (which, it’s now reported, he had before the trade and Cashman supposedly knew about it), the Yankees have two catchers with above-average skills on the defensive side.
Last year the Braves won a championship with Travis d’Arnaud (78 wRC+), Willson Contreras (86 wRC+), Kevan Smith (16 wRC+) and Stephen Vogt (29 wRC+). The Yankees also have Rob Brantley and David Freitas, and Kiner-Falefa also can catch in a pinch.
Point being, the Bravos got rings with sub-par offense from their backstops. The White Sox had Grandal (159 wRC+) and didn’t get past the Division Series. A slugging catcher isn’t needed, and Willson’s wRC+ was only 109 anyway.
They also had power hitters up & down the lineup. Their infielders all hit 25+ jacks. Duvall, Soler, Pederson, Rosario all have power.
Hell, even d’Arnaud has pop.
I know defensive metrics for catchers are sketchy. But, Higashioka barely grades out as above average. He has “above average skills” by the slimmest of margins. & do we really have any idea how Rortvedt is defensively?
Selected as best defensive catcher in Twins Minor League system.
Noted. Thanks, Mick.
Mickey7s: That’s good, but it’s also relative. We don’t know how good or bad their other catchers are defensively. And, it doesn’t necessarily translate to MLB defensive prowess, but I hope it does. I really hope Tanner Swanson can unlock his defensive potential & the O coaches can adjust his swing to help him realize his potential there too.
Who knows, maybe he’s the next Piazza?
If one of Higashioka or Rortvedt can emerge as a viable power hitter that would be plenty. We got 33 jacks out of the catcher position last year. Can HigVedt match or exceed that?
Maybe! Should we count on it. Well…no. Probably not.
Swanson was really thought highly of out here. Thus far, he hasn’t lived up to the hype. I know we jerked Gary’s development all over the place. But Sanchez worked his ass off under Swanson…& got *worse*. Not the most reassuring of anecdotes, uh?
Yeah, great points about Swanson. I will add that sometimes you get a bad student (not inferring motive on Sanchez’ part) where it doesn’t work. Hopefully, he will prove his worth. He has a big shot here with his own guy in Rortvedt, so if anyone should succeed, it should be him!
Your point is well taken, Clip. Like you I am hoping he is the real deal defensively and can develop into a 15-20 homer guy if he were to become their number 1 catcher some day. If or hopefully when they acquire a catcher he can take his time and really develop.
Out of how many good defense catchers?
The Jays hit the most home runs in the majors, 23 more than the Braves, and they didn’t make the playoffs. The Braves hit 17 more home runs than the Yankees, who did make the playoffs. The Yankees had 10 players with double-digit home runs. The Braves had seven.
What the Yankees need is to score more runs, not necessarily with long balls. Contreras hit 21 home runs. Rizzo hit only eight with the Yankees, but he hit a total of 22 on the year, and he was sick in New York. As far as team home run totals go, I think a lot depends on whether Gallo can get back to his home run pace in Texas. Even Hicks might add a few to the mix (no poem intended).
That’s…a pretty nuanced post, @Ployd.
Yes. We don’t necessarily need to hit more home runs. We *do* need to score more runs. I see only two places we can add offense fairly easily: C & CF.
I am highlighting adding power hitters because that is the Simple Guy’s Easiest Solution. I think our lineup needs more above average bats &/or offensive contributors. Since it’s 2022, finding a power bat is a realistic way of doing that. You know what I mean?
I think our 1-6 is going to be pretty good.
I like Kiner-Falefa out of the 9 spot. He will put the ball in play & run like hell. Ned Yost would bat him leadoff.
What I have been bucking at are the 7 & 8 spots.
Learned some things. Higashioka is ranked as the 11th best defensive catcher in MLB on Baseball Prospectus. So he is encroaching on an “elite” ranking (huh). Here is where Swanson can earn his check. Get Higgy to the next level.
&: check this –
Gary Sanchez 2022: 383 AB 23 HR
Kyle Higashioka career: 387 AB 20 HR
If you are a batting average guy, an OPS guy, a wrc+ guy…well turn your head. Higgy will quite probably put up some horrifying numbers.
I guess I can live with a top 10 defensive C who can stumble into 20 jacks. (& perhaps one of our fleet of batting coaches can help here too. Though I am not hopeful he will ever put up an OPS North of .700)
So. I turn my sights to CF/4th OF as somewhere Cash *should* be adding a bat. & again, it doesn’t *have* to be a power bat. Those are just the easiest to find.
I guess I can live with Higgy in the 8th spot. Rugged. A little better than I thought he would be. However: something like Locastro, Higashioka, Kiner-Falefa would be brutal if it happened with any regularity, serious.
I could certainly be overreacting to last year’s offense. But I really think one more capable, proven MLB bat is in order.
tldr; we need one more bat to lengthen our lineup
I don’t think you’re overreacting to last year’s offense. I think Cashman has done a terrible job of roster construction again.
I’m not really opposed to getting Contreras. I’m on-again, off-again about it. With a lousy offense, I’m ambivalent because the Yankees might need the pitching to overcompensate again, and Willson was rated a sub-par framer every year since 2017 except the short 2020 season.
Maybe that doesn’t matter. Since 2017, the Cubbies staff ranked 16th in FIP and fWAR. Was Contreras a factor? I don’t know.
If they add him, I’ll be glad to get his bat. I see the Yankees as a third-place team anyway. Cashman is counting on bounce-back seasons from LeMahieu, Torres, Hicks and Gallo, and good health from Donaldson.
Well, to be fair, we really only need one of Dj/Gleyber to bounce back. & that’s just who Gallo is. Ya know?
But, yeah. Hicks. He would definitely help deepen our lineup. It’s just become impossible for me to believe in him. I live in MN. So I saw him coming up. So talented. I would love to get 90-100 games out of him.
Seems like a tall order though. Unfortunately. & I say that as a legitimate Aaron Hicks fan.
A 7th spot of Gallo/Contreras & Kiner-Falefa’s contact/speed at 9, to go with Whatever We Have In CF is just so much more palatable than what we have now.
I greatly wish they’d move Gallo down in the order instead of stocking up on high-strikeout hitters at the top. I think it would help him too, to be relieved of some pressure.
I think he will be. Just spike the bottom half of the lineup with his 40 LH jacks. That’ll play.
As of now – wouldn’t it be;
LeMahieu
Judge
Rizzo
Stanton
Donaldson
Gallo
Hicks
RortiShioka
Kiner-Falefa
(?)
I think Contreras would slot 6th or 7th depending what you do with Gallo.
& that focuses on why I would really like to see Contreras added. It gives us at least one above average bat in the bottom third.
That’d work..
@Fink, Anyway you look at it they need a catcher. They may not need a top flight catcher like Contreras but if Rortveldt can’t start the season or if either catcher is injured during the year they would not have a reasonable replacement.
That’s a good point.
Edit; Oh. Wait. We have Brantly.
And, Brantley hurts them more than helps. He has performed terribly in normal stress situations, imagine him in the postseason… not sure about Freitas – could be interesting, but he’s, what, a 33-year-old journeyman? There’s a reason.
Nonetheless, we’ve compromised at so many positions using that very logic, that at some point you hit a threshold. The fact is, they’re past that threshold and have been since 2018. It’s been evident and only getting worse because we’ve lost position-specific players.
Best-case scenario, we are back to our 2017 level, but with older players & a less prodigious offense. That’s a playoff team at best, and best is asking a lot.
Logic failure.
A winning teams weakest position is not something you try to duplicate when you want to win.
They won in spite of their catchers not because of them.
It just means it is possible to overcome play that bad.
One year of a mediocre batting catcher in Contreras who is not a huge offensive upgrade over Higgy is not worthy of multiple top prospects.
A deal that benefits both teams could be worked out.
Trading ss Alex Vargas (#12) who has huge upside as he will break into top ten Yankee prospects based on scouting reports, adding catcher Josh Breaux (#18) who has offensive upside but questions behind the dish and including Higgy and Andujar for 1 year of Contreras is more than a fair trade for both teams. To those who are uninformed on Yankee prospects, research before you assume based on past failures or successes. All prospects are crap shoots but the Yankees without a doubt have a strong farm.
Fan graphs has Vargas as their 5th best prospect and 93rd overall. Honestly, 50th or 150th overall really doesn’t matter until these guys are in striking distance of the mlb. He looks interesting but also years away and the cubs just invested a lot in a ss in the international draft that’s already projected just as well. It’s so hard to develop a catcher that can hit an play defense. I think the cubs would regret letting Contreras go in a trade. Amaya missed all of last year with an injury and it would put the cubs in a bind to find a competent catcher to play 70 games next year. Gomes is probably maxing out at 90-100.
Mariners. Fill the gap
My guess is he’ll be dealt at the trade deadline. The Cubs have sold this as a “retooling,” but let’s be honest, it was a full strip-it-to-the-studs rebuild, which started last year. I mean, who’s really left (aside from Contreras) that’s actually impactful? No one. Heyward is now a backup bench player, Happ is straight garbage, and the rest of the players they signed are basically just journeymen and veteran fill-ins, aside from Suzuki, who will be included in the rebuilt contending team (assuming he pans out). And that’s about it. This current team is a bellow .500 team. If they trade him at the deadline, they’ll basically he able to make their price and have extreme leverage.
Hendricks
Wilson being dealt at the deadline is the most logical conclusion. They just spent the entire off season trying to build a competitive team for 2022. It would make no sense to weaken it before the season starts. The cubs literally have no other catchers. It’s pretty much Wilson, yan, and a guy who just missed the entire 2021 season will zero mlb experience.
Problem with dealing catchers at deadlines is that they have no comfort level with a new pitching staff. Contreras should be dealt now as cubs may get more now with a whole year rather than deadline and than free agent.
Todays 75th rated prospect is tomorrows 175th rated prospect. They will still get good value at the deadline especially if they eat all the money.
I’ve been a Cub fan of sorts for a long while but it’s always interesting to see how these guys do in different uniforms and landscapes. Wilson would be no exception. I’ve been surprised he hasn’t continued to develop on offense because he initially looked like he would. But, he was overused behind the plate last year and I guess catchers just aren’t great hitters anymore. Plug him in somewhere else though, and given his passion and different eyes on his approach, he could surprise with the bat. Still, you’d think that the Cubs would have traded him by now or committed to trying to sign him.
I don’t quite understand what the cubs are doing. I didn’t like them to trade their core away but if you are willing to trade away the core of players that won you your only world series in 100+ years why not tank all the way for 1-2 more years and make it a monster farm system again?
Right now their farm system definitely has improved a ton but it stil only went from very bad to average (2 top 100 but a decent depth behind that and 2-3 more that could enter the top100 with some development.
Also despite the additions they made their team is projected for mid 70s wins by fangraphs.
So a middle of the road farm and a middle of the road big club are not such a great start.
So if you tear it down imo you have to tear it down fully and make it a top5 farm system with 6-7 top100 guys (2014 cubs had like 8 or so).
All these guys on short term deals can be traded at the deadline. If fan graphs is correct the cubs can trade Contreras, Happ, Miley, Simmons, villar, and all 500 bullpen arms and probably do pretty well. This seems like the much better path to a rebuild. You need to double check that cubs farm because they added a ton of talent last year. Some rankings are much more bullish than others.
I would agree, deadline holds most for Cubs. However, that could change rapidly if a team offers an overpay.
One question? When did Contreras become Johnny Bench Clone?
Contreras if he is not extended in the next week, He should be traded. Yankees are the logical destination. They are all in and the catching situation is not great.
Jasson Dominguez and Clarke Schmidt plus
For one year of Contreras? Oh, boy. You must be a Cubs fan.
Why would anyone want Dominguez? Last year he had a .258 average with 5 home runs in A ball. He’s not anywhere near ready to be MLB. Do I need to get out the 73 Ks in 208 at bats? That’s a 38% strikeout rate in A ball! I mean… yuck. @FinkPloyd, you MUST be a Yankee fan.
Oh by the way, which one is Pink? All lyrical innuendos aside, Fink isn’t too far off-base. While the C market might be weighted in the Cubbies favor, it’s not THAT heavy in their favor. It sounds like one year of Contreras isn’t quite worth what Cubs fans think it is… and that’s fine. Let the market develop some more (injuries, poor play, etc.)
He’s 19 years old and ranks 61 in the Top 100 prospects. It’s fortunate that you don’t want him because you’re not going to get him.
If he has a slow start this year he won’t be ranked much longer. I think he was a top 20 prospect before getting a hit in professional baseball. The shine is starting to wear off, just a little. He’s super young and years away, so who knows.
Top 5 Catcher in the game. Yes a Top 60 player plus would be what is needed in order for a team to get him.
Contreras ranked 11th in fWAR among catchers in 2021 and 8th in 2020-2021. He only ranks fifth if you combine those seasons with 2019.
You didn’t propose a straight swap of Contreras for Dominguez. You included the Yankees’ #7 prospect and top right-handed pitcher prospect for a player with only one year of team control.
Possible? Maybe. Likely? I doubt it.
I don’t think the cubs are getting Dominguez or the Yankees would trade him but he’s hardly a sure thing. It’s one thing to be 17 in the body of a 26 year old and mashing baseballs. It’s another to be 19 and struggling in A ball. He needs to make drastic improvements this year or he won’t be on any top 100 lists.
The Cubs will get 1 Top 100 prospect plus 1 very close to the major contributor plus a lottery ticket or 2 for Contreras. This guy is TOP 5 at his position in all of baseball and he is getting better defensively. The framing metrics are way up.
Yankees might have to give up Medina Plus to get Contreras. The catching situation in New York is a nightmare. Right now the Yankees finish 4th in that division.
If the cubs do trade him go for pitching. I’d definitely ask for Medina and a mlb catcher. Amaya wont be ready until 2024 at this pace and Gomes isn’t playing 162 games behind the plate.
I don’t think Medina and Rortvedt would be enough for Contreras. Someone like Clarke Schmidt or Devi Garcia would need to be added. Talented pitchers that haven’t figured it out yet. They would give the Cubs much needed depth.
Headlines would mean something under Geroge, but with Hal it is just smoke and mirrors to make the Yankee fans believe ownership is interested in winning. The dog and pony show has been going on since 2011. I’m waiting for the Yankees to break the attendance record of 413 fans in the stand.
You’ll wait a long time. A lot of seats are sold to corporations for entertaining clients. They don’t particularly care whether or not there’s a winning team on the field.
Who would be a viable DH on the Cubs? The article oddly argues that Contreras doesn’t have the typical stats for DH—but nobody on this damn roster does. Wisdom and his low average high K rate? Oh, yeah! Suzuki? This team lacks an actual prototype DH. We have no plus power hitters.