Updated 3-10-22
With proposals going back and forth, it can be difficult to keep track of where each side stands in collective bargaining between MLB and the Players Association. We’ll keep this post updated so you can use it as a reference.
Last Proposal From MLB: 3-10-22
Last Proposal From MLBPA: 3-9-22
Next Up: MLBPA reviewing counteroffer from MLB. MLB included 3pm EST deadline
Here’s where each side stands on the key issues, as far as we know.
Minimum Salary
- MLB: $700K in 2022 / $715K in 2023 / $730K in 2024 / $750K in 2025 / $780K in 2026
- MLBPA: $710K in 2022 increasing to $780K in 2026
- Current gap: $10K in 2022, dropping to zero gap in 2026
Competitive Balance Tax
- MLB: Base tax thresholds at $230MM in 2022 / $232MM in 2023 / $236MM in 2024 / $240MM in 2025 / $244MM in 2026. Pre-arbitration pool of $1.66MM per team would presumably count against the CBT. Also seeking to add a new, fourth surcharge level to the CBT, with an unknown tax rate. For example, MLB’s tiers for 2022 would be at $230MM, $250MM, $270MM, and $290MM with tax rates on the overages presumably increasing at each level. Unclear whether tax rates increase for repeat offenders, as in the previous CBA.
- MLBPA: $232MM in 2022 / $235MM in 2023 / $240MM in 2024 / $245MM in 2025 / $250MM in 2026.
- Current gap: $2MM in 2022, growing to $6MM in 2026. There also may be debate over what forms of spending count toward the CBT.
Draft Pick Compensation
The two sides have agreed that if an international draft agreement is reached by 7-25-22, the qualifying offer system and the associated draft-pick compensation will be eliminated. If the two sides do not reach a deal on the international draft by the deadline, the qualifying offer system will remain in place.
Pre-Arbitration Bonus Pool
- MLB: $50MM pool with no increases throughout the CBA
- MLBPA: $65MM pool, assumed to include $5MM annual increases throughout the CBA
- Current gap: $15MM in 2022, growing to $35MM by 2026
Arbitration Eligibility
Super Two is expected to remain at the top 22% of 2+ players.
Service Time Manipulation
- MLB: Offering three draft picks within the player’s first three years if he finishes well in awards voting. A player finishing first or second in Rookie of the Year voting would receive a full year of service time.
- MLBPA: Players receive a full year of service time in their rookie season if infielders, catchers, and designated hitters finish among the top five for their position in WAR in each league, with outfielders, relief pitchers and starting pitchers finishing among the top 15, per Evan Drellich of The Athletic. “The union also said it would accept a modification of MLB’s proposal that would reward draft pick compensation to teams whose players finish among the top three in the Rookie of the Year, MVP and Cy Young voting.” (per USA Today’s Bob Nightengale on 2-1-22)
Anti-Tanking Measures
- MLB: Lottery for top six picks. According to Evan Drellich, “Small markets can pick in draft lottery for two straight years before sliding to 10th pick. Large markets can pick only one year in lottery before going to 10th.”
- MLBPA: Lottery for top six picks. All teams that did not qualify for the postseason in the preceding season would be part of this lottery. So in a 12-team playoff field, 18 teams would have a chance at the #1 pick. In the MLBPA’s proposal, the odds for the #1 overall pick would be as follows:
- Team 1: 15% (the team with the worst record in baseball)
- Team 2: 15% (the team with the second-worst record in baseball)
- Team 3: 15%
- Team 4: 12.5%
- Team 5: 10%
- Team 6: 8%
- Team 7: 6.5%
- Team 8: 5%
- Team 9: 3.25%
- Team 10: 2.25%
- Team 11: 1.5%
- Team 12: 1.25%
- Team 13: 1.12%
- Team 14: 1%
- Team 15: 0.88%
- Team 16: 0.75%
- Team 17: 0.625%
- Team 18: 0.375%
These odds would be adjusted as each of the first seven picks are given out via this lottery system. After those seven lottery picks are assigned, the remaining non-playoff teams would be assigned picks in the reverse order of winning percentage.
The MLBPA is also proposing competitiveness adjustments. Revenue sharing payors that finish in the bottom eight in winning percentage in each of the two previous seasons or in the bottom 12 in each of the three previous seasons would pick no earlier than 10th. Additionally, any team that does not receive revenue sharing that finishes in the bottom 12 in each of the four or more previous seasons would have their pick moved to #18.
Also, beginning with the 2024 draft, any revenue sharing recipient finishing in the bottom eight in each of the three previous seasons would pick no earlier than 10th. Any such club in the bottom eight in each of the four or more previous seasons would have their pick moved to #18.
Revenue Sharing
The two sides have agreed to move the Oakland Athletics back to a revenue sharing recipient. It seems the MLBPA still has requests with regard to revenue sharing.
Expanded Playoffs
- MLB: 12-team playoffs
- MLBPA: 12-team playoffs
On-Uniform Advertising
The two sides have agreed to uniform patches and helmet decals.
International Draft
The two parties have set a July 25 deadline to determine the specifics of an international draft that would go into effect beginning in 2024. If a deal on the draft is reached by that point, the qualifying offer system and the associated draft-pick compensation will be eliminated. If the two sides do not reach a deal on the draft, the qualifying offer system will remain in place and the current international amateur free-agent structure will remain in place. Possible details of MLB’s international draft plan can be found here and here, but specifics will remain subject to negotiation up until the deadline.
Amateur Draft
The size of the amateur draft pools remains unsettled, among other related issues.
Minor League Options
The two sides have agreed to limit the number of times a player can be optioned to the minors in one season to five.
Rule Changes
- MLB: Seeking ability to implement any on-field rule changes 45 days after formally proposing them to players. MLB seeks a pitch clock, bigger bases, and the elimination of the shift for the 2023 season.
- MLBPA: “Would grant MLB ability to implement 3 specific on-field changes w/45-day notice, starting w/2023 season: pitch clock, larger bases, shift restriction,” according to Evan Drellich.
Universal Designated Hitter
This seems to be generally agreed upon by both sides.
MLBPA’s 2018 Grievance
In February 2018, the MLBPA filed a grievance against the A’s, Marlins, Pirates, and Rays for failing to comply with the rules for spending revenue sharing money. MLB wants this grievance dropped.
Universal DH. This country.
Cool I’m happy we got that, what about the 500M in differences on the other issues till we get to see it?
Who’s we?
I wish they would do some bargaining for the minor leaguers to make more money I think major league are getting paid very. lot of owners and ball clubs are losing money I think the minor leaguers need need to make better money higher wages
Geno55,
I’d love to see minor leaguers get paid more, but that’s outside this bargaining process.
“lots of owners and ball clubs are losing money.” What are you basing this statement on? Aside from the 2020 pandemic season, revenues (and franchise values) keep rising, with the percentage of revenue going to players continuing to decline.
Have the players ever requested to be paid based on a revenue %?
They might if they could trust the owners to share their real total revenues honestly, which is extremely unlikely to happen.
Lol paid on share of revenue and employees getting access to the employers books. Listen to yourselves. How many employees get paid based on revenue and would get laughed at for even asking for such a ridiculous notion. You employee me employer now get back to work. That’s capitalism. These players are living the dream and have the best work environment the best health care for themselves and their families, the best retirement plan, the best per-diem and it’s part time work. Now shut up and play ball you whiney b!tches.
gcs42 – That is nothing more than socialism. It’s not a crime to be rich and it’s their money to spend as they wish.
Minor Leaguers are not part of or members of the MLBPA. Only those on a 40 man roster.
Have you really never heard of profit sharing? It’s like a pretty common practice. Perhaps the most common is a thing called stock options and revenue based bonuses, but there are a ton of different methods of doing this that are entirely in line w the fundamentals of capitalism and have roots all the way back to George Washington and the cod industry in the 1790’s
But yeah keep pretending that capitalism has to look like worker exploitation…
A lot of employees get profit sharing based on revenue and margin goals, granted this typically is for public companies that have open books, but some private companies do as well. The private companies don’t necessarily share the books with employees but since the have to file taxes and management and board members get bonuses based on these numbers the books usually reflect honest profit sharing numbers even if the employees don’t get to know the exact profits and revenues. I have been a manager in both private and public companies of 50-10000 employees (obviously not all under me) and I can tell you that profit sharing is a real thing that has to be reflected on the balance sheet, especially as it is a write off since the government can’t tax you for profit you gave to the employees.
prov, what is socialism?
PROFIT sharing is common. REVENUE sharing is not. Commissions and bonuses tied to specific production (usually sales) are also common, but they are focused on an individual’s production rather than the entire company.
Who doesn’t love to see pitchers hit?
That’s a pretty narrow way to look at it. You lose a ton of strategic moves by taking the DH into the NL. It’s not the same game. MLB has basically made the game HR derby with all the moves they’ve made, and the complete adherence to analytics. There isn’t anything remotely interesting, or exciting about this game anymore. Very few stolen bases, or triples. No more having to weigh taking your pitcher out in a run scoring situation, even if he’s dominating. You’re just sitting around waiting for the 3 run homer. That’s boring.
Couldn’t agree more Jdt. If I was elected king of baseball, I’d reverse everything Manfred has done in the past several years and eliminate the DH from baseball completely. The strategy is gone and all we’re left with is a watered down game focused on homeruns and making it shorter for low attention span viewers.
Not to mention hitting behind a runner, a hit and run, no need to guard the lines late to take away an XBH because hitting a ball hard on the ground or a single is a no no. Agreed boring. Money and in some respects, analytics and fantasy baseball have ruined the game.
Prov: Great to see you on here! I agree with you, I think Manfred is bad for the game in more than one way, but his implementations are frustrating.
Good to see you Clipper! Hope all is well.
Jdt8312
and the complete adherence to analytics. There isn’t anything remotely interesting, or exciting about this game anymore. Very few stolen bases, or triples. No more having to weigh taking your pitcher out in a run scoring situation, even if he’s dominating. You’re just sitting around waiting for the 3 run homer. That’s boring.
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There is nothing that can be done about adherence to analytics. You can’t advocate for a bad play, like a SB, just because it is exciting. And the other sports do the same thing. I grew up with Three Yards and a Cloud of Dust. No one does that any more, because it doesn’t work as well Every year, there are fewer mid-range jumpers in the NBA because they are a lesser option than shots in the paint or 3-pointers.
That said, when I grew up, HRs were worshiped. “HR hitters drive Cadillacs” and all. We can always go back to 1968 and F’ing Bob Gibson’s 1.12 ERA, but I am almost certain that the same people that hate HRs will hate that too.
I don’t know what game that you’re watching, but 95 percent of pitchers in this league offer nothing at the plate making it a bad product.
Garett – You’re looking at it backwards. Pitchers can’t hit well because they don’t have to so they don’t work on it. Baseball is two parts – field positions and hitting. Position players are required to hone both skills. Pitchers should have to also.
prov356
Pitchers can’t hit well because they don’t have to so they don’t work on it
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Yup, I just looked at two random years, but I assume the numbers won’t change much, In 2021, pitchers OPS was 40.3% of the MLB OPS. In 1970, it was 53.5% of the MLB OPS.
Joe – It never did make much sense though. Position players have to work at fielding their position and hitting, why shouldn’t pitchers work on their hitting? What makes them so special?
I think it points back to the old days when pitchers, catchers and shortstops weren’t required to be good hitters. Three automatic outs for the most part, which is boring as heck. The DH is one of the best changes MLB ever made.
I have so many amazing memories of a pitcher getting that big hit no one expected. Grenkie’s pull back bunt home run? Come on. DH is a lame excuse for teams that sign old guys to 10 yr contracts and have a excuse to keep their bloated contract in the line up. At least AL won’t be the only game in town for those big bats like previous years. Guys sign there knowing that that’s their destiny. Lame all around.
You cannot talk about pitchers getting big hits that no one expected without the mention of Big Sexy!
When you reduce the game of baseball it boils down to pitcher vs hitter not strategy… Implementing a DH doesn’t= homerun derby…. The DH makes for a better product when you are watching hitters vs pitchers
Fever Pitch Guy
Joe – It never did make much sense though. Position players have to work at fielding their position and hitting, why shouldn’t pitchers work on their hitting?
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One of the examples I always go back to is Steve Carlton. he could hit, and he could field. If he goes up against a pitcher that can’t hit or field, He’s developed an advantage.
And I think there might be a difference between the older generation (yup, going down the rabbit hole now) who enjoyed the strategy, and younger people who want to see more hitting.
Just for fun, compare Belanger & Carlton. Belanger had an OPS of .580 for his career. For the same time period, Carlton had a .486 OPS. It’s not that much different, but Belanger lasted 18 years. Why can’t pitchers do the same thing Belanger did?
I was dead set against the DH in the NL, but watching one hopeless pitcher after another in the batter’s box, I’m ready to give in to the universal DH.
It’s a shame that pitchers aren’t learning to hit (or to learn how to bunt) because when I started watching baseball there were many good hitting pitchers—in both leagues.
I just want to see the ball put in play.
Pete – I equate it to when I was a kid and had to do the dishes after dinner. I thought if I did them poorly, my parents would stop telling me to do them. I was wrong. So I had to do them well or I was never finished.
Pitchers should be complete players just as any other position player has to be to stay in the majors and earn a solid contract. Ohtani should not be an exception.
I might be in the minority, but I love the strategy. If you can hit a little, then maybe the manager keeps you in in the 5th inning instead PHing. Same with bunting.
All this stuff reminds me of having a RB that can pick up the blitz. Or having WRs that can block downfield. To me, it is all about being be good at everything that mattered.
I”m not sure y’all remember Keyshawn Johnson & Wayne Chrebet. Keyshawn could be cartoonish, but he and Chrebet would hit anything that moved.
Check out Nolan Ryan’s hitting numbers. It appears he never worked on it.
Very simple if your pitcher gets hurt because he doesn’t know how to hit or swing a bat or running the bases, you paid $30 million for him to pitch not hit. All these players are whips because they don’t get taught to hit anymore. If the pitcher can be used more like ohtani he can play the outfield or play first base he’s useful. They are making more players to play multiple positions so they can get their bat still in the lineup. If you have a guy that’s a dh and he’s only 1 bat for that spot what’s the use?
prov356 — I agree 100%. The problem is the pitchers and the teams teaching them. “Oh, his arm is too valuable to hit or bunt.” Complete BS.
Agree, but, remember, Manfred et al., is merely a spokesperson for the owners interests. He does what they want. It wouldn’t matter who the Commissioner is as long as he works for the owners.
@pete. I cannot believe more guys cannot put down a bunt. I bet it’s something ridiculous like 10% of the roster being able to do that. I miss stolen bases and the occasional bunt. Just to get the runners in scoring position if nothing else. Just about every team has a couple light hitting utility/bench players that all should be able to lay a bunt down. I agree it does seem pitchers as a whole used to be much better in the batters box. Now there’s maybe a dozen MLB wide that can even approach the Mendoza line (.200 batting average).
“Hitters don’t need to learn to hit so they don’t” has to be one of the most narrow-minded and I’ll-informed takes I’ve heard on this site in hours, bravo.
Pitchers “aren’t taught how to hit” because they’re professionals at their craft. The time it takes to scout an entire teams lineup in between starts to perform at a professional level makes it so there isn’t enough time for these guys to learn how to hit major league caliber pitching. Then factor in recovery time, prep time, family time, R&R time and you have yourself a jam packed schedule. Throw in added injury risk for someone who can’t dedicate full time AB’s to honing the craft of hitting and teams realized it wasn’t worth the risk.
To think in the era of analytics that pitchers can’t hit just because no one thinks to teach it to them though? C’mon.
Universal DH was a must! If you took a every day player and hit him once a week he wouldn;t hit either! Pitchers also have limited batting practice, and many go through the minors never picking up a bat!!
>>” Position players are required to hone both skills. Pitchers should have to also.”
Nonsense argument. Are we going to make the batters pitch games too?
Dane – I don’t understand the comparison. I contend pitchers should learn to hit just like every other position player. Why would that mean all batters should learn to pitch? Hitters should know their position, whether it’s infield, outfield, catcher, pitcher. Totally lost on “logic” of your comment.
Historic day…there were a surge in births nine months later!
On October 3, 1968 In the third inning of Game 2 of his complete-game World Series victory over St. Louis, 8-1, Tiger starting pitcher Mickey Lolich hits a solo homer off Nelson Briles. The Busch Stadium round-tripper will be the only home run the southpaw will hit during his 16-year big league career.
youtube.com/watch?v=YqPwNKc-ib0
You can adjust the rules like all the other sports do. Eliminate the shift. Push out the fences. Plenty can be done to moderate the extremes analytics have brought about.
You can adjust the rules like all the other sports do. Eliminate the shift. Push out the fences. There are a number of changes that can be made to moderate the extremes analytics have brought.
Pitchers can’t even bunt now. Bring on the dh
Yeah, we’ll see less double-switches. From what I’ve been hearing is analytics even at the college level are driving decisions. This removes catches/pitchers calling games, and the little things being utilized. I like sac hits/flys, 1-3rd, bunt hits, continually fouling pitches. I still hate the intentional walk rule. I do think the DH does help prolong careers. I do concur missing out on the intangibles has hurt baseball. Blame the organizations and the players though. I do hope we see more traditional baseball because there are some great ball players who do the little things great.
DH or not, it just needs to be universal. I don’t care if they have it or not so long as both Leagues play under the same set of rules.
Both sides agreed to the DH with no givebacks. It’s a done deal. Why moan about it?
If I were I charge I’d say screw you to the MLBPA, go with the minor league players , start everything over. Go back to universal $10 tickets, $3 beers $1 hot dogs and sodas $20 Jersey’s $10 shirts and hats and get the fans back. Do completely away with the DH & OUTLAW the shift. Make all contracts completely perfermance based with a downside guarantee. Mandatory FREE MEET AND GREET WITH THE FANS 1 home stand a month. Owner wants a new stadium? Fine. Foot a minimum half the bill and be responsible for any non essential upgrades and half of all maintenance.
I can’t take this ridiculous argument anymore, even though this was from weeks ago and no one will see my reply.
First, there aren’t 2 parts to the game, there are 3: Pitching, fielding and hitting.
What is the biggest joke in the game?? When field players need to pitch, late in a blow out, so save the bullpen.
So, why is it any less of a joke to watch pitchers hit? Everyone is expected to do 2 of the 3. Field players field and hit, pitchers field and pitch. Anything else is counter to their strength and hurts the quality of the game.
No one wants to see big sexy rumbling their way on the basepaths….beastmode
Pitchers who have to face Steven Brault, Mad Bum, Ohtani, etc.
1. Who’s the “etc.”? You named 3 guys. I doubt there’s more than a handful more that would even belong on this list.
2. Even Brault and Mad Bum.. Brault is an empty .258 hitter, which is probably the best of the best when it comes to pitchers. Mad Bum is a career .172 hitter. He has 19 career home runs but still has a .292 career slugging percentage. He’s an awful hitter.
3. Ohtani is a different animal.
Nick – I’m a DH guy all the way, I’m not arguing against the DH.
Just pointing out that some pitchers do actually hit rather well.
I’d rather watch any pitcher attempt to swing a bat than Chris/Kris Davis attempt to swing one
I get the funny snark, yet Chris Davis in his prime led the league in home runs multiple times. At his worst he was still better than most pitchers, and he was nigh unwatchable.
Nothing is stopping a team from not using the DH and allowing their pitcher to hit if they want, so what’s the harm with the rule?
It’s been ridiculous that for the last 30+ years, the NL and AL had separate rules, especially with the introduction of inter-league play. It’s about time the leveled the playing field. I’d have been fine had they gone the other way too (make AL pitchers hit), but the league needs to keep fan interest in mind. They decided to go the way of more offense, versus more strategy which only die-hard baseball fans could appreciate. The average fan would much rather see a double or HR, versus a sacrifice bunt or a 3 pitch strikeout by the pitcher at the plate. I think they made the right choice to capture a larger audience.
@Dorothy_Mantooth
That type of strategy is what makes people fall in love with baseball. Not more doubles.
By your line of thinking, we may as well just cork all the bats and turn every game into a home run derby.
There 3 good pitchers the rest are dumpster fires
John Burkett was arguably one of the worst hitting Pitchers ever, and even though you knew that 99.999% of the time he was going to make an out it was bizarrely fun watching him “hit”.
Also, who doesn’t have fond memories of watching big sexy HR in San Diego?
The problem is Manfred is trying to dumb down the game by taking away strategy and replacing it with station-to-station-everyone-swing-for-a-three-run-Home Run-with-no-one-on-base offense
Who doesn’t remember Bartolo Colon’s home run? Heck, I still remember Chuck Nagy getting a hit in an all star game in the early 90s. Improbable events are what make games memorable, not some aging slugger hitting another one out.
I really enjoyed watching Jake Arrieta hit a three run bomb off Bumgarner in game 3 of the 2016 NLDS.
Too many good pitchers have been getting hurt running the base paths. It’s hard enough keeping them on the mound these days. I’m for the universal DH.
Larger bases, though? That’s just sacrilegious.
Like I said above, shame on them for not training to be complete players. Ohtani should not be an exception.
Based on a random year….. The top 8/7/3 picks don’t necessarily dictate a team’s future if you were to get pushed back or even up in those slots allocated/being argued …. Based on a team’s scouts and definitely not that years’ needs there is no definitive rule that a team drafting in the top 3 or even 8 is going to cash in a gem in the future… ..
2009 1 Stephen Strasburg RHP Washington
2009 2 Dustin Ackley CF Seattle
2009 3 Donavan Tate CF San Diego
2009 4 Tony Sanchez C Pittsburgh
2009 5 Matthew Hobgood RHP Baltimore
2009 6 Zach Wheeler RHP San Francisco
2009 7 Michael Minor LHP Atlanta
2009 8 Michael Leake RHP Cincinnati
2009 9 Jacob Turner RHP Detroit
2009 10 Drew Storen RHP Washington
2009 11 Tyler Matzek LHP Colorado
2009 12 Aaron Crow RHP Kansas City
2009 13 Grant Green SS Oakland
2009 14 Matt Purke LHP Texas
2009 15 Alex White RHP Cleveland
2009 16 Robert Borchering 3B Arizona
2009 17 Allen Pollock CF Arizona
2009 18 Chad James LHP Florida
2009 19 Shelby Miller RHP StL Cardinals
2009 20 Stephen Jenkins RHP Toronto
2009 21 Jiovanni Mier SS Houston
2009 22 Kyle Gibson RHP Minnesota
2009 23 Jared Mitchell CF Chi. White Sox
2009 24 Randal Grichuk LF LA Angels
2009 25 Mike Trout CF LA Angels
2009 59 Nolan Arenado 3B Colorado
Watching pitchers hit is so awesome
Yup! Kinda like watching a Quarterback make a tackle.
Lol on Jersey advertisements … can’t wait for the classic yankees jerseys to have a sals bailbonds ad stitched to the Jersey
I dont like lotteries, but a system like the NHL just adopted preventing teams from being in the same range over a time period makes sense. I can’t stand the idea that market size and other carp like that should be a part of it though. i can tolerate it with sandwhich picks, but not ones high in the 1st round.
Especially not when it’s based on losing…ugh, freaking losers.
I would prefer a lottery (weighted or not) with the first three or four picks assigned via looters and then picks 5 through 16 or so awarded on a best-to-worst record amongst the nonplayoff teams.
Tanking not as attractive if a bottom-three team not winning a lottery pick was only eligible for a first-round pick in the low teens.
Why first three picks for losing teams? No. Lottery should be for compression round picks. Stop rewarding losing teams. It doesn’t work and only incentivizes losing.
If you want to do a lottery and pick only one team out of the bottom 8? Okay, then one team gets a top pick the rest fall in line.
Making excuses for bottom feeding, leeching team owners is how we are here in the first place. These teams are hurting MLB because of these rules, not helping competition. They’re using the system to gain profits, not improve rosters.
Losing worked for Chicago, Houston, and Washington.
Each team should have a Ball floating around in the Air Machine. And the pick will be as the balls come out of the machine. Every team has the same chance every year. No Reward For A Bad Losing Team!!!!!
*via lottery
All 16 non-playoff teams would qualify, any not awarded a top three pick fall in line, best record to worst.
Baseball is the one professional sport where having a high draft pick doesn’t necessarily change the outlook of your team. The entire baseball draft is a complete crapshoot. While first round picks are much more likely to reach MLB at some point in their career, I recently read a very interesting stat. Out of all players drafted by MLB teams in the last 40 years, only 9.8% of those draftees ever achieve a career WAR of 0.1 or more in MLB! That’s an alarming stat. Basically, over 90% of players drafted are useless to the MLB club. So I’m for a draft lottery, but I don’t think there should be any limits on how often teams can be in the lottery. If a team is bad, they should be given a chance to get better via the draft, but having a top 5 pick in 3 or more consecutive seasons does not guarantee a team any sort of advantage. All it guarantees is that they’ll need to pay more in signing bonuses than winning teams who are constantly in the back half of the draft. It’s extremely hard to make it to MLB as a draftee, let alone become an above average player.
Dorothy, I think that evaluation of draft pick success needs to be more granular. Earlier picks of course do better than later picks, so a success rate will vary by draft position.
Owners will walk away winners in this deal. Players are at a huge disadvantage in negotiating because
1) They were incredibly terrible in previous labor negotiations
2) The owners don’t lose much by losing a month or two off the season. Obviously they’d prefer to have them, but the players – pitchers specifically need time to build-up before the season.
I imagine we will see slight tweaks from where the owners stand on the financial issues, but I don’t think the players will get much on their side other than other “rules” that can be easily manipulated by the owners.
Owners are in the drivers seat because the current deal tilts towards the owners, the PA can’t right all the wrongs in one CBA.
They need to dig in on the 1-2 most important things and park the rest.
Honestly they need to take the necessary time and figure ALL of it out. Otherwise they’ll be right back in this spot 5 years from now.
They’ve had plenty of time to work this out. The MLB is in the driver’s seat. THEY orchestrated this time crunch to GUARANTEE there wouldn’t be enough time to give the players enough time to successfully negotiate for what they want.
By the way, I’m siding mostly with the players.
However, neither side is seeing the big picture…that even though revenues are up, young people are less and less interested in the game and the casual fan is on the verge of letting the game drift away because they just don’t care about three hour baseball games.
We live in a different time and if the MLPA and the owners aren’t careful, this could ALL, to a large extent, go away relatively soon.
Both sides need to avoid a strike, but I’m not sure how much they realize how close they are to pretty much hastening the demise of the game.
In what world are employees ever in the drivers seat? (Maybe truckers)
If it was your company, and you did the hiring, wouldn’t you want to be the person in the drivers seat? The people who sign the checks always have control. That isn’t even in question.
I’m a big believer that if the players do believe they need to make up serious ground, than they should take this into the regular season. To me though, I’m not as sure now as I was not even that long ago that they are willing to do that though. Perhaps the low-earners have more influence than I thought. I do believe though that the owners cave, even if just a little, if the players wait. The Union has the ability to help the low-earners out internally, and while maybe the owners still have bigger war-chests and can afford to lose a lot of money, no games means no money, especially when the networks start demanding the TV deal money back for lost games (which they probably can do).
downsr30 – “…but the players – pitchers specifically need time to build-up before the season.”
I’ve seen similar comments a lot..
The players are not locked out from playing catch, throwing a ball, running, working out, going to the batting cage, pitching, etc. The players are doing their normal pre-season conditioning. If they aren’t then shame on them.
prov – I completely agree. Even though they can’t use their team’s facilities right now, there’s no excuse for not staying in shape.
But not having the team’s coaching staff and trainers does make it harder.
Fever Pitch Guy
prov – I completely agree. Even though they can’t use their team’s facilities right now, there’s no excuse for not staying in shape.
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I agree. It sounds like people using the Covid excuse for gaining weight. Sure, the gyms were closed. But most people can still walk around the block a few times, some pushups, planks, sit-ups, etc. I’m not a model of conditioning, but the only reason why I am not in better shape is because I don’t put in enough effort.
If I remember correctly if you are hurt doing a non team approved training that the team can fine or even terminate said contract. Also for some reason i dont think the local ball field matches what the team does for field preparation. Imagine if you are a FA and you go out throw and 10 – 20 mins later there goes your UCL and now you have no money or minimal money for 2 years if your lucky..
They should allow players to atleast train in approved facilities
IF theyre hurt in non team activities or facilities they also get no access to MLB/Team doctors and rehabilitation trainers as well.
The owners are absolute fools if they believe that they don’t stand to lose much by losing a month or two. In a video game where its just lost games and their associated revenue, sure. But in real life you risk alienating fans and driving them away from the game. 2 months of lost revenue is nothing compared to fans becoming indifferent for the long term.
I would hope owners learned a lesson or two from the ’94 strike shortened season..
I guess I was a little off with my Feb 7 prediction
They will be at this till its only a 60 game season with expanded playoffs and short spring training in the middle of summer causing a slue of TMS?
The only bargaining chip the player’s union has is the ability to reject expanded playoffs. This would hurt owners much more than losing one month of the regular season as the tv revenue for playoff baseball is astronomical. The players are steadfast that if the season gets shortened, they will not approve expanded playoffs and I believe they will follow through on this. With the exception of small, playoff bonuses paid to participating players, MLB players are not paid during the playoff season. They only get game checks from April-Sept (regular season), so the owners get to pocket all of the playoff revenue. This is why the owners agreed to meet every day this week. They don’t want to lose that extra playoff revenue if they can help it, but they are not going to cave on all of the union’s asks. If the union can agree on a middle ground for some of their asks this week, a deal should get done. Otherwise, the season will be delayed for at least one month, if not longer.
@Camden453
That depends. Did you say Feb 7th of a specific year?
I’m left wondering if the mediator would have been able to move things along quicker.
The gaps are too big and too plentiful, this is not a great position to be in mid feb
It’s not a good position at all. Anyway I slice it at this point we are missing games, at least a week? Any at all when the two sides have had forever, I mean years to figure this out is just absolutely terrible. They both failed, are failing the brand that is American baseball. Almost like they are collectively short selling the sport itself?
Anything Federal takes forever to get approved? I doubt it would have made the millions come off the board any quicker? Especially with the Arbitration bonus pool money? I’m all for that at least being 75M
Yeah, owners have billions but they also have a lot of expenses
Nobody can afford to bleed 100 million a year. Which they can easily do
There are a lot of expenses. Fans seem to think they have unlimited money but it really doesn’t work that way
and people continue to use the false statement that teams are only an investment and not a pure revenue-producer – a statement contradicted by claims that books aren’t open, an event that would be able to prove their statements to the contrary. Maybe owners can get by without the revenue, but they didnt get to where they are by just doing enough to get by. as i stated in the prior comment section, the PA has the ability to move money around to keep everyone afloat for a time. the owners ain’t just giving each other money and will probably lose a larger amount more quickly.
Camden – Take a look at expenses for the Braves.
With no games being played, Operating Expenses is just 18.6% of what it would be with games being played.
We are talking $12M/month which is a drop in the bucket for a huge entity like Liberty.
And they can still hold concerts and other events in the stadiums during a lockout to offset some costs.
Exactly right. The mortgage on Yankee Stadium alone is $45m per year. Who pays it? Steinbrenner and the fans. Something never discussed by Scott Boras.
Nice to see the differences spelled out so clearly and concisely.
yeah, i like it very much.
It’s dizzying to see how far off they still are, by my estimation its at least half a billion dollars
I didnt realize the difference is only 500 million. Divided by 30 teams thats only 17 million a team. I would think they make a lot more than $17M/yr. Maybe not.
The only owner proposal I like is the draft pick compensation idea and I think the PA should take it.
The owners are making a big deal out of this.
Players come down from 100million to 55 million
Take the pay for minors pay offer.
Take the 14 team playoff.
Come down from 8 players to 4
Take service time
I think we would have a deal at this point
“ The owners are making a big deal out of this.”
Yeah, billionaires tend to do that. People kill over money, business lie, cheat, steal, and hire people to commit violent acts on their behalf just to save money on a relatively small scale. Think of what they would do for hundreds of millions of dollars. Owners simply can’t “fix” things that way in these cases, although lying on both sides of this issue doesn’t seem to bother them.
@Yankee Clipper
No, most billionaires don’t kill people and hire people to commit violent acts on their behalf.
Perhaps you’re thinking of politicians?
Well, Carl, I said, “People kill over….” So, although you did misinterpret my statement completely, I don’t disagree that politicians take part in that activity. But, then again, aren’t most politicians wealthy after leeching off taxpayers anyway? So, they have similar motives…. Money & power.
To clarify, I never said owners did that, simply that they’re willing to do just about anything given the amount of money being discussed. Rather, that people do that for money in varying amounts.
These are only the issues owners have been willing to discuss, a pittance, no doubt. This list has little to do with real disagreement.
The owners have developed additional revenue streams, mostly with TV deals for individual franchises and national coverage in the playoffs. MLBPA wants a cut without taking on financial risk; MLB won’t discuss the loot when they shoulder all the liability.
We don’t have to look far for an example of MLBPA bailing on losses, see 2020 when they were upset when MLB needed fans in the stands before they would start the season. MLBPA believed they could afford and absorb the “small” hit at the gate in a year when everyone was losing around the world. It’s hard to believe MLB has forgotten this.
With so much more money (billions, not millions) at stake in the long term, it appears both sides are prepared to lose millions up front in a battle to starve each other out. MLBPA thinks they can win and MLB believes it can’t afford to lose.
No matter, as revenue increases, it’s distributed to greedy conglomerates on both sides and baseball becomes less than secondary. “For love of the game” is why we all tune in to watch the best players in the world. Unfortunately for the kid in all of us, neither the owners nor the players are able to make championships their priority, not with so much money up for grabs.
This disagreement has been simmering for years and it’s ready to boil over. Even though the players are doing well, their handlers at the MLBPA aren’t worried about the romance and MLB didn’t ask for the marriage. This year, both groups are likely to risk it all for a huge opportunity, and who can blame them; the rewards are staggering! For now, it’s inevitable they will break the hearts of fans. Let’s just hope they don’t drag it out long enough to crush the soul of the game itself.
Another silly narrative is that the owners are taking all the risk.
First of all there is no risk in owning an MLB franchise. Those guys are making money hand over fist unless they badly mismanage their teams or the country is hit by a pandemic, and franchise values far outperform other investments.
Second, players risk their entire livelihoods just to get to play in the major leagues. From the day they are drafted, they are under team control for ten years before they ever get to taste the free market. They are subjected to minor league salaries that could be below poverty level, then an artificial minimum salary, then arbitration, then finally free agency after their service time has been manipulated.
No risk? There’s overwhelming risk that they never make it to the major leagues, and if they do, the average career is 3.1 years. Players take plenty of risk.
With revenue sharing and the CBT, there’s almost the opposite of risk: if you fail, the more successful owners shower you in free money.
You act like the dropping the pool to $55mm is meeting in the middle. It was zero because there wasn’t a pool. $55mm is a net gain for the players of…$55MM.
Which the owners will more than make up with the expanded playoffs.
“Players come down from 100million to 55 million” The players are so generous.
Instead of draft pick compensation they should be tying the CBT increases to expanded playoffs. I still think it shouldn’t be 14 teams though, that is too many. Go midpoint with the lottery and prearb pools. Maybe bottom 5 teams in a lottery and prearb pool at 50 to 60 million.
I think 12 team playoffs would be good. Top 2 seeds from each league gets bye into divisional round and face the two teams who move on from wild card round? Wild card round is best 2 out of 3? Still all record based for home field advantage ect. I would love to see that in MLB October baseball
These honestly aren’t that big of a deal. They should have focused on 1 by 1 issue per meeting since December 1st. But they are not that far off. Get together, order a few cases of beer, hammer these out and let’s get going to Florida and Arizona.
I’ll help…
Minimum Salary:
MLB is close. Go 650/725/800k 1-3. Done
CBT:
MLBPA, come down 15M to start, then go up 5M per year instead of 7M. Done
Pre Arb bonus:
Start off meeting in middle around 45M (1.5M per team), but make it so any unused bonus money rolls over to next year so it should cost less going forward. Done
Arbitration:
MLBPA, give that one up. Gotta give a little to get a little. MLB is moving in right direction for you.
Service time manipulation:
You’re pretty close there. Hammer out the details.
Anti-Tanking:
Meet in the middle. Top 5 lottery.
Expanded Playoffs:
MLB, give in and go for 6. It’s still a win, and MLBPA gave in on the arbitration. Done.
good points, and I especially think the last one will play out as such. Both sides screwed around too long to make a drastic overall to arbitration at this point, and if they do the lottery pool at even 50 million, that’s at least moving the needle in the right direction in terms of the arbitration years in general. The players should consider that a victory, and owners taking the 12 team playoff should be seen as a similar victory. Not EXACTLY what each side wants, but a nice split down the middle and generally good for the game as we look down the road.
I don’t think dropping the CBT by $15M is helpful at all.
Stand strong owners! Stand united! And don’t give in anymore!!!
Who are you talking to? So when we don’t have a baseball season I can blame you for saying that the owners shouldn’t give in? Why can’t they meet halfway?
@TheVoice
Hey bud. Ray Davis, owner of the Rangers, here. I, and the rest of the owners from around the league, would very much like to commend you for your support. It means the world to us.
Don’t bother. He trolls the same comments on every article.
I’m pretty sure he has multiple accounts and likes his own posts too.
Tim D: Thanks for these streamlined articles. They make reading about these meetings/proposals much easier to stomach and pare down the specifics.
So, excluding the value of high performing rookies, the difference between the parties according to this article is:
– entry level / 1-3 year salaries: $ 145K x 13 players per team x 30 teams = $ 302 MM
-bonus pool = $ 85 MM
-CBT = $ 31 MM
-On field competitive issues/playoff construction, etc = no value delta
All tolled: $418 MM on more than $ 12 BB in revenues or approximately a 3.4 % increase in costs during a time when new revenue streams like gambling and on line streaming is exploding.. The owners egos are in control here.. They are being led by their collective “johnsons” to waver at such a gift/deal..
This deal should be completed by the weekend.. smh..
I’ve been guilty of boiling the CBT difference down to the dollar amount. But really, you can’t do that unless MLB takes the increased penalties off the table, because those are huge.
Why would MLB take those off the table? MLBPA is asking for a huge increase to CBT. From 210 to 273. Plus a reduction to revenue sharing that you left out entirely. The common ground is nowhere near where you suggest. MLBPA would orgasm to have a big bump in CBT AND no QO/draft pick AND no penalties for exceeding the CBT. That’s a huge change and the only people that are going to agree to that are MLBPA fans on the internet. Certainly not the clubs. The deal is pretty close to where MLB says it is, with a little bit of a bump on CBT thresholds but nowhere near what MLBPA asking, with the MLB penalties or close to, and with no draft pick loss. MLB moves up a bit on the minimum salary, and that’s where the deal lies.
If MLBPA wants to hold out, the deal gets worse because now it has salary and service pro-rationing if games are missed.
The players are at their best leverage point now. This deal isn’t there in one year as they will find out if they test the clubs.
You’re right, I forgot to add a section for the revenue sharing, I’ll do that.
But…I don’t think there’s common ground on the CBT, I wrote an entire post about that earlier today:
mlbtraderumors.com/2022/02/mlb-draft-pick-compensa…
I won’t pretend to know where the deal is, except to guess that it’s non-existent with large increases in CBT tax rates and the addition of draft pick forfeiture.
The reason to take those off the table is to eventually make a deal. Those are a new, extreme thing MLB came up with even though the CBT has already acted as a salary cap. I think if the MLBPA had agreed to the mediator MLB wanted, one of that person’s earlier recommendations would have been for MLB to drop the increased penalties.
I also don’t know where you’re getting anything about “no penalties” for exceeding the CBT. I’m not calling for that, I’m calling for the same penalties from 2017-21 to remain in place.
As you said and is obvious, the monetary gaps alone in the proposed CBT thresholds are very large, so that’s a big fight in and of itself. A lot of that owes to the MLBPA’s failures in the last two CBAs and I really don’t know how much of a make-up MLB is willing to do, if any.
Tim, great breakdown. It really helps you see where the gaps are. From my understanding CBAs last around 5 years (last one finalized 11/30/16). For this CBA, both the owners and players are arguing about million dollar margins. At the micro level, that’s real to them. The problem is they’re not seeing the macro level. If in-season games are lost, they’re going to lose exponentially more. League sponsors, player sponsorships, corporate partnerships, and general attendence will go down. They will lose much more over that 5 year period than the current margins that they’re battling over. This includes both the owners and players.
I’m sure like you, I remember 1994 like it was yesterday and it took Hulk-sized McGwire and Sosa to pull the entire sport out of purgatory. 4 years later. With Wayne Gretzky the face of the NHL, baseball was battling hockey for last place among the big 4 sports. You could argue it was even falling behind golf as Tiger Woods went pro in 1996.
A suggested article that I hope to God someone in the league would read would be an aggregate look at what the current owners and players would be doing to the game of baseball should games be lost this season.
If the bonus pool is 85MM or more, I’ll put your kids through school
Right, it’s not that complicated, I came to an estimated amount of about half a billion, now I see 418 million and think even less. Cut it in half and it’s about the same as luxury tax penalty 1st bracket? So a major league payroll? That’s chump change? Like fining HSBC bank 8 billion for laundering 250 billion a week?
I’ve said this before here but it’s truly incredible how many people see the solution as trying to meet in the middle. You don’t “meet in the middle” when one side of the middle is a bogus offer. The owners’ current offer is not-serious and they need to use financial lies to justify it. The player’s current offer is economically feasible for both sides and goes a ways towards fixing some serious issues. Apparently the correct Union move at this stage was to have an offer of $300 million CBT, arb after 1 year, 1 mil min salary and then we could all be like let’s meet in the middle of two not serious offers. F the players for negotiating in good faith, eh?
This is a really good point. I think an anchoring effect is natural: the CBT ended at 210, so MLB will just inch up from that.
The PA is kind of trying to act like it wasn’t 210, because it shouldn’t have been, because they let it move by only $32 mil over a 10-year period.
Even if you anchored to $210 million, which we all know is low as is, then the growth to $273 million in 2026 is about 30% which tracks with about what MLB revenues would be expected to grow over that timeframe. Seems quite a fair standard for both sides, even considering the $210 million “anchor” is artificially low
Even if they only adjusted 7% for inflation, the CBT would start at $225M. Then$245M isn’t such a stretch. But an increase of less one percent per year is what the owners are pushing.
They want a salary cap and they’re not negotiating in good faith. Same issue as 1994, with the same tactics.
Patrick: You’re correct. It isn’t a stretch at all. If one takes into consideration the increased revenues, the CBT should be closer to $300M by 2027. In that respect, I think the MLBPA is asking for a fair increase.
I think the MLBPA is asking for a fair increase.
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1-Inflation doesn’t hit everyone in the same way. If you spend 100% of your salary, then 7% is what your expenses increased by. If you get paid $7M, only $1M, then the inflation factor is only 1%.
2-That said, the union is asking for 16.7%. Are you okay with paying 16.7% more on your season tickets and related spending?
On your 2, payrolls in 2021 were flat compared to 2015 yet ticket prices were higher in 2021. If ticket prices were directly tied to player salaries as you assume there, you wouldn’t be paying more for tickets. Ticket prices are driven by supply and demand above all else
All true, but I just wanted to make the point that isn’t a matter of just giving the players what they want. If I am getting a 7% increase, then I am okay with giving you a 7% increase. If the owners can increase ticket prices by 7%, then I think 7% is an okay starting point for the players.
JoeB: Do you think the overall pricing at MLB has gone up at least that for tickets, product and merchandise? I’d venture to say, yes. I’m not positive, but it’s got to be close to that. Just look at the increase in ST tickets alone in the past 10 years – it’s insane.
So, to say it should go up again would be counterintuitive to the premise of the argument that the players want a raise because the owners have already been raising prices & making a killing without dispersing the payment. Make sense?
Th MLBPA is saying revenue went up 30% over the last CBA and so should the CBT threshold.
It started at $195 million at the beginning of the last CBA and a 30% increase would put the CBT at $253.50 million to start the new CBA.
They have already compromised by saying they would be willing to have it start at $245 million.
Neither side is negotiating in good faith. The competitive imbalance tax is a broken system. I hope the players recognize that the path is a completely different system. At this point, I would pay to watch neighbor kids play and would be fine never seeing any of the existing players ever play again. It used to be about the game. Don’t get me wrong, I think the players deserve to get paid well, and wish the MLBPA would propose a hard cap/floor system. This would solve the competitive balance issues, create a path for quality veterans to make good dough and find jobs, and provide the owners the cost certainty they want. Do it. It makes much more sense than the competitive imbalance tax and revenue sharing, which is just a joke to allow the larger markets to succeed.
There are a few things they could meet in the middle on and both sides would live? Bonus pool for arbitration players? 50 million sounds pretty fair to start with? 15 million is no where near enough to divide between 30 players?
Meet in the middle only works if each side is a fair offer. $50 million is the middle of $100 million and $0. Is $0 a fair offer? If it’s not, then there’s no reason to use it as the starting point of a compromise. Should the players just have started from the same unfair standard so the “middle” looks higher? My lesson from reading the comments here is that if the players started significantly higher, that the fans might’ve arrived at an acceptable “middle” that worked for the players, as opposed to the current “middle” weighed down by one side’s non serious offer.
AnonPlayer5
Meet in the middle only works if each side is a fair offer.
==============================
That’s always an annoying facet in real life. Amateurs feel the best way to a deal is to ask for something unreasonable, thinking they will meet in the middle. It doesn’t work unless you are dealing with idiots.
Check your mail I am sure Boras has a job offer for you…..
I’m the other side of the ball but I sure wouldn’t mind for Scott to have a seat at the table. Bruce is great though and everyone trusts him
Minimum salary for 0-1 years services time to 700K, 1-2 years service time 800K and 2-3 years service time 900K. Inflation is real guys.
Competitive balance tax up to $250 million by 2025.
Lottery among 6-8 worst teams for first three picks.
Most of the other items will go 90% toward owners.
Everybody talks about inflation and I think what is being done to stop it? Exponential growth is scary especially at 30T? Without doing anything to stop it, it should Ballon to 40T within 5 years?
“Waiting for the time when the last shall be first and the first shall be last”
Thank you for the article as it clears up what is happening during the negotiations. As a fan, I am growing unhappy with those teams that have no interest in competing, but just to scam the fans of their money.
That’s capitalism at its finest? Especially if your a NFL owner and trying to move your team so you can increase your franchise value by 3 billion overnight and host a superbowl in a building you build while the team was still playing in another city? Anti trust laws, Black Rock laughs at those
Why do the players want fewer teams in the playoffs?
It’s bigger than that. More teams in the playoffs means the more money owners make without acquiring higher level talent. Also, it provides owners exponentially more money, while they would be playing additional games for free (from a worker’s perspective). So, owners wouldn’t need to improve their clubs as much, which consequently downgrades the need for FAs, and drives down competition for top-tier services.
I think they have modest concerns with expanding playoffs. Mainly, if fewer wins are required to make the playoffs, teams might not try as hard to improve. Plus it would make the season longer for some.
More so, they know it puts a lot of money in the owners’ pockets, so it’s their best bargaining chip. I wonder what else could even be a bargaining chip in the future.
Tim, what is your take on a flat percentage penalty compromise over the CBT. For example, any team that passes it, gets a 15% penalty each year on the amount over the threshold?
It still benefits small-market teams because the more teams (LAD, NYY, BOS) go over it, the more money goes into the revenue share.
It still achieves the goal the owners are claiming to seek (revenue sharing for parity) while permitting big market teams to go over if they choose without being taxed a prohibitive amount of money. It also alleviates the players’ concerns of a faux cap because it’s not a prohibitive penalty.
Players would enjoy that because it’s less harsh than what they had.
I’ve seen people say it on here…whole thing is weird to fight over, because it’s the owners wanting rules to save them from themselves. “You’re not taxing me high enough! I’ll give out really stupid contracts!”
Whether penalties stay the same or move a bit in either direction, the thresholds matter more. In 2021 I think five teams went right up to 210 without going over, and two teams actually went over.
Wouldn’t it entice MORE teams to try to improve? It might not increase the Top salary, but it would cause more competition for 2nd and 3rd tier FAs. Seems the union is more concerned with one player being able to set a record contract, than the improvement for most of their members. Trickle down economics is a slooow process.
Stymeedone: I don’t see it that way. It’s happening now for the most part and the results are all teams competing for missing talent they can use to fit their needs, which does increase competition for the lower tier talent but the valuation stays the same (no bidding wars because talent use Jess unique).
I do agree with your second point. The union certainly wants the top salaries to continue going up more than the bottom or average to avoid any compression.
I think that’s a fair argument. You could see some teams push for 85 wins that normally wouldn’t have cared. But then the teams that used to push for 95 might be fine with 90.
I think expanded playoffs actually works to some extent as an anti-tanking measure. Larger playoffs mean that the “Retool not rebuild” teams have a better shot – those 12th to 14th spots are huge for them. You’d still have a few teams tanking, but those middle teams will choose to retool somewhat more often – after all, getting into the playoffs is all that matters, right?
“Mainly, if fewer wins are required to make the playoffs, teams might not try as hard to improve.”
====================================
That’s where the players go awry. They want to present everything as a negative. I’d bet real money, in a non-proveable proposition, that more teams will try to make the playoffs than will stick with the status quo. The playoff cut-off this year was .556. Teams like Cleveland, Philly, the NYMs, Reds, and SD were unlikely to reach that. If the cut-off for the playoffs was, say .525, the incentive for the solid .500 teams is a lot higher to spend another $10M for that extra RP and UIF.
That said, the playoffs are the biggest chip. So big that, if I were the union, I would tell the owners to settle everything else, and negotiate the playoffs separately. Get your 3-4% increase, and get $500M for the expanded playoffs.
Yeah, good point Joe. I do think expanded playoffs work for certain teams becoming a bit more competitive, but those teams are trying anyway (say, Diamondbacks). I don’t believe it will fix O’s, Pirates and others who tank to reap the benefits of tanking while using the revenue money to pay for their roster, and then pocket the remainder.
Expanded playoffs will serve to make top level teams less competitive because they will make the playoffs easier (Yankees are THE prime example) thus have no reason to improve, moreso stay relevant or sufficient.
Yankee Clipper
I don’t believe it will fix O’s, Pirates and others who tank to reap the benefits of tanking while using the revenue money to pay for their roster, and then pocket the remainder.
=====================================
But that’s not right. The O’s are actually big spenders. It’s just that they have no talent. They spend $180M a few years back. The system cannot work if you expect the small market teams to be big spenders.
As far as I can see, all 30 teams are trying to win. But all 30 teams cannot make the playoffs. You have to allow the small market teams to cycle thru $50M periods and $150M periods.
Well, I certainly don’t expect smaller markets to maintain $180M every year. I understand that. But when they’re using the revenue share to pay for their roster and they have money left over?! That’s problematic for me.
Joe,
PIT, CLE, TB, OAK, MIA, KC – probably others – never approach $150M payrolls.
Bargaining chips for players
Advertising patches on uniforms
International draft
Having a CBT at all since it has sunset
Oh, and there’s this $500 million grievance that’s pending
They’ll give on the expanded playoffs if they get fair value for it
Yeah, truth be told I don’t mind a CBT for the purpose of keeping small-market teams from being gapped completely out of existence. But even at 10%, that’s nothing for the big market teams. They’re just trying to run the table on the players and everyone can see it. It’s a non-starter and I’m surprised they’re approaching it this way.
I like universal Dh gives older guys a job. I think vet minimum should be $725. I like the 14 teams playoff thing. They should make the entire draft a lottery except for the 2 World Series teams. They also should allow draft pick trades
The players are NOT negotiating in good faith. They stacked their executive committee with Scott Boras’ players. The only teams that benefit from the ‘competitive imbalance tax’ system are the largest markets.. The only way to solve this is with a cap/floor system like ALL OF THE OTHER LEAGUES have. The players continue to hold out for the benefit of ‘future generations of players’. Complete BS. This is all about getting the Boras clients paid their megadeals while the quality veteran players suffer. The existing system needs to get scrapped, because there is no middle ground. Negotiate a huge hard cap. Make it a big one. The MLBPA refuses to consider this, but it is the only way to give the smaller market teams a chance. I may be wrong, but I don’t think the owners cave this time. The players have very little leverage. I don’t give a rip if I never see Mookie Betts, Nolan Arenado or Max Scherzer EVER play again. It’s time to start from scratch. The players need to wake up or this season is a wash.
Nolan Arenado is a all world 3rd baseman. Maybe one of the best to ever play the game, in that argument with Scott Rolen, and Mike Schmidt
Bluff
Your first two sentences are hogwash.
“Stacking” the exec committee with Boras guys is one thing, but to suggest an entire player body lacks good faith because exec committee guys want mega deals is irrational.
The player body wouldn’t put people in positions of authority that were overtly out for themselves. It would only hurt the players as a whole.
The threat of Boras guys being on the board isn’t their desire for their own personal gain. It’s the fact that Boras himself has his claws deeper into the negotiations, and by proxy is more involved in negotiations than other agents
This is stupid to me how this isn’t done? We’re talking if they meet in the middle on everything it’s about the same as the METS payroll at the moment?
As others have said, meeting in the middle only makes sense if both starting offers are reasonable. This is not the case here.
At this point I could care less if they cancel the season.. but they need to stand up for minor leaguers over everything or stop saying you are for all players..the way minor leaguers are being treated like trash is pathetic
gcg – ” …I could care less…”
I believe you meant to say you “couldn’t” care less.
The MLBPA doesn’t represent minor leaguers.
Well written piece, clarified the issues.
This is no longer the game I grew up watching. A children’s game played by millionaires, owned by billionaires and run by greed.
Why do you people keep saying “Children’s game”? It’s arguably the most complicated and broadly skilled game of any of the four major sports. It wasn’t developed for or by children.
You’re the same person that obsesses over it, and what’s a grown man doing obsessing over a “children’s game” in the first place?
Do you feel the same about Hooks and ladders or Checkers?
The vast majority of major league players make league minimum or close to it, yet the guys set to make millions and millions are willing to forego their own paydays to better the futures of other players. How is that greedy
oldoak33 – Whether one agrees with RedHomer81 or not, note you both referred to baseball as a “game”. Regardless of whether baseball is a “children’s game” or not, adult men get paid a minimum in the 6 figure range a year to play a game, some MUCH more than that.
Dune,
The usage of the word “game” is a reductionist statement at best.
Parents of children spend thousands developing their kids to play high level travel ball, countless hours commuting to practices. Not to mention costs associated with equipment and travel. All so their kid has a shot at a college scholarship, and maybe a business card from a pro scout. 1% of those kids playing at a moderately high High School level are drafted. That’s after about ten years of dedication as a child.
You could argue 15 year old pure amateur baseball, maybe Babe Ruth or Legion ball is where it’s purely a game. That’s argument doesn’t stand up to debate when you’re discussing paying for college tuition, providing entertainment, gambling apparatus, entire programs and facilities. The “game” is the most arbitrary part of everything in Major League Baseball and to those who play it.
It’s a job, 24/7, where only your best and the best get to participate.
Where tens of thousands attend, where you’re accountable for every mistake, where every bit of your performance is quantifiable and subject to scrutiny by your employer, peers, fans, and media. Injuries, time on the road. Emotionally, physically, and mentally draining.
What other field can you think of has a demand of about fifteen years of preparation, and the window of participation average around three years (if you’re lucky)?
Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, Gretzky, Nolan Ryan. All men that accomplished great things in their “game”, yet not one of them would’ve had the mentality that’s being suggested, because frankly, you want these guys to sell their souls to perform. You want them to give everything and more, because if not, you’d be watching “a game”. None of you want that.
oldoak33
The scenario you describe where people make such great sacrifices to play a game seem like an attempt to self-justify your argument. One could devote that same time, energy, and money sacrificed for such a pursuit to pursue something more important and meaningful (e.g. see Pat Tillman, Father Burke Masters, etc.).
Your statement “because frankly, you want these guys to sell their souls to perform.” shows how out of touch you are. There is NOTHING true to your statement. I would expect no one to sell their soul for any sports, nor would I be willing to do the same. I am not a sports fanatic, like several of my friends are who follow lots of sports, to the point of following enough sports that they can do so year ’round, regardless of season. I’ve also never been a sports gambler. People who make ANY sports their idol are true fanatics, and that is not a good thing. Idols replace what is really important in life. Life is so much more important than professional sports. Do I greatly enjoy baseball? Yes, I have done so since 1975. How would I survive if baseball suddenly ceased to exist? Just fine, thank you.
Some, get an average of $250,000 per hit, some an average of $500,000 per homerun after divided among their salary. How is that fair to the other player’s or fans. Was EACH homerun REALLY worth half a million dollars?? Some people just have man crushes I guess. This IS a children’s game with millionaires playing ball. The higher the salaries and ownership profits, the higher the fan fee. Why should I not want more of my own money? Why are both sides fighting over more of our money? Do you REALLY think either side cares about any of you? No. Just the coin.
Dune
It’s not an attempt to justify my argument, it’s reality.
To do anything in baseball you have to approach it like a job as an early teenager.
To establish yourself as a major leaguer, you have to make it a purpose in your life. If you don’t do these things you will not become a successful major leaguer.
The reasons you have to do these things aren’t inherent, but the requirements have evolved out of necessity due to competition nationally and globally. Kids and parents take the game much more seriously, and it’s compounding over time.
The game has never been more profitable, and money is one of, if not the greatest, motivators of all time.
The saying goes “If it were easy, everyone would be doing it”, and guess what, it’s not easy. In fact it’s extremely hard, and it’s demanding.
“ The scenario you describe where people make such great sacrifices to play a game”
It’s not a scenario, it’s reality. You will not make it in baseball if you don’t sacrifice for baseball. You reducing and minimizing a career in baseball doesn’t change what a baseball career is. It could be sewing, or retail, or mopping for all I care. When a massive segment of the population is doing it from a young age, when there is popular culture and mystique surrounding it, when movies and TV and media portray it as important, and where there are millions to be made, there will be extreme competition to succeed in that field. It’s no different for baseball, and attempting to simplistically reduce it to a “game” is boring and inaccurate.
Just because the game of baseball itself is enjoyable to play, it doesn’t mean the rest of the path is easy. For most attempting it, it ends in failure.
This is a pretty great breakdown. My 2 cents on each, for what it’s worth:
Minimum salary: I like the owners proposal better, but this one seems easy enough to just say “ok let’s split the difference and meet in the middle.”
Draft pick compensation: meh. Seems like a bargaining chip.
Competitive Balance Tax: Definitely owners on the dollars. We don’t need the richest teams being able to outspend by that much more. Though I’d add a clause that the shared revenue generated by luxury tax MUST be used for player acquisition, which would require a salary floor. If league salary floor is 90 million and you receive 10 million in revenue sharing, your salary floor is now 100 million.
Pre arbitration bonus pool: it seems owners are agreeing to this being a thing, so I think it needs to end up being closer to the players number. 15 million won’t go far.
Arbitration: players side. 2 years of experience is fair.
Service time manipulation: wow, the players have their heads up their asses on this one. Why on earth would adding a year of service time to a successful first season ENCOURAGE an owner to call someone up earlier?!? They’ll call them up even later to make sure they don’t get an entire extra year. OWNERS 1000% on this one. If they can get a better draft of course they’ll be more likely to call up early.
Anti tanking: I don’t like draft lotteries but it seems like this is already agreed upon. Just agree upon the number of teams and move on.
Revenue sharing: see above. Closer to owners, No change but it must be used on players.
There’s such a glaring easy fix to the CBT and expanded playoffs. MLBPA needs to damper their numbers a little but they can clearly exceed what MLB is offering IF they cave and accept expanding the playoffs. They should be much closer after all this time when the distance apart isn’t great when you tie a few things together.
Another weekly meeting with no results. The owner just going through the motions no change. The owner won’t give anything. Just for show
The players are doing just fine especially the top earners with long term GUARANTEED contracts. The players should just concentrate on improving the salaries of the bottom fifty per cent of the players. The owner’s are not going to let this be like Ford and General Motors where you could never buy their stock because most of their profits go to the employees with bonuses etc. If the owners turn their business into a car company I am selling my Roger’s stock.. Rogers telecom owns the Blue Jays.
Pretty much all about the big money players and the big market teams. A few scraps from MLBPA for journeyman players. MLB happy to weaken any help to small markets or incentives to field competitive teams. And everyone’s happy to keep raising those ticket prices and broadcast fees.
How about we address some issues that are killing the sport – like the shift. Baseball is losing its popularity because it’s becoming unwatchable. Fix it.
Shifts have been around for over 150 years, though they certainly have become more prevalent the last few years.
I feel like there is only one of these things that actually is keeping them from an agreement: the luxury tax level. Everything else would be worked out quickly. That luxury tax “cap”, though, the owners are sitting tight on and not meaningfully moving – and until they do, there won’t be any resolution, unless the players cave (which is obviously the owners’ strategy).
Someone please create a new MLB!
My biggest complaint about certain teams right now is, team wants to keep payroll low. That GM goes to its star player, who wants to stay with that team. The GM tells that player, the only way we can afford to keep you, is if you sign this team friendly deal. Which the first 2 or 3 seasons, player makes very little. Then once the bigger money, which is still below market value, for that player. The team turns around and trades that player. Owners and fans wonder why, the players aren’t loyal to the team. Yet they owner isn’t loyal to them. They should do something like the NBA does, hey this player signed with you in good faith. If you want to trade that player, you need to take on a player making at least 75% of the player remaining AAV. It could be for less years. This would stop teams from doing things like Tampa does.
Tim,
I absolutely loved the article. Most writers are pro-union, and I sense bias in most (not all) of their coverage. This article is straight Choice A or Choice B. My opinion:
Minimum salary-I think MLB is closer on this one. The union asking for a 36% raise is not realistic.
CBT-Both sides are unrealistic. The 16.7% ask is too high, but the 2% offer, offset by other penalties is a non-starter. I think both sides need to go back to the drawing board.
Draft pick comp-I’ll go with the owners. The teams losing the best players are likely the poorest teams. since the players want more competition, I’m sure they’ll agree.
Pre-arb pool-Meet in the middle.
Arb eligibility-Maybe meet in the middle with those with 2.5 years of service now eligible, or just have the arbiters change their internal standards.
Service time manipulation-I’ll go with the union on this one. There aren’t that many players that will finish in the top-7 in WAR in each league to worry about. If, for example, Dominguez comes in and dominates for the NYY, then he gets one year of credit for maybe 5 months of service? Seems more than fair. That said, this is more open for manipulation than the current system.
Revenue sharing/anti-tanking-I am full on-board with the owners. If small market teams aren’t allowed to occasionally tank, then they will never be able to compete for a WS. The system now looks perfect-8 different winners in 8 years,
“That said, this is more open for manipulation than the current system.”
Right. The players are either incredibly daft or aren’t remotely arguing in good faith. That doesnt help them in the least
I thought this was the weakest part of the union proposal by far. The owners can do the math. Some players will still out-perform, but the GMs will calculate your expected WAR. and extrapolate when they need to promote you. And if that doesn’t work, they will switch positions so you don’t qualify as top-7 at any one position.
Or you will promote everyone so that they don’t qualify as top-7, but have lost rookie eligibility.
“Minimum salary-I think MLB is closer on this one. The union asking for a 36% raise is not realistic.”
Hockey has a higher minimum salary in a sport with half the revenues.
It is completely realistic.
Can you think of a reason why baseball players should make less than hockey players when MLB has twice the revenue?
#BantheDH
TL:DR; they got some decent stuff here, just getting the numbers nailed down but…
The Bonus pool is a dip plan IMO. just make it a flat / WAR (or some stat). like 1m or something after year two. have that bonus add on to the base salary after year two. So in year three if they make 4m in bonuses then the next year base salary in increased by 4m continuing through the contract. maybe add a clause that the current year bonus does not add on to any caps/floors for the current year.
In crease the first year minimum MLB minimum to $700k second to 800k, after that the bonus kicks in.
Change the caps to a percent over/under median payroll over the past so many years with draft pick loses after so many years over/under with a higher punishment for lower payroll teams to incentivize them to get it up and compete. if they lost so many picks already, increase the monetary penalty Any monetary caps go 60% to the MLBPA for insurance for injured players (later). 20% to teams (sharing) 20% to the MLB.
With the flat WAR arbitration becomes point less.
remove service time and add flat contracts from the time they are drafted. for so many years or a certain age. This removes the service time concept almost completely. Where it doesn’t is when they hit the Majors. A season on the 40m counts as one MLB season guaranteeing MLB minimum. 5 games in the MLB counts as a full season of position players. 9 Innings for pitchers. two way players (if it is still a thing) will .. i don’t know.
On non-rookie contracts include the war bonuses as well. This may lower the guaranteed but get players more of a pay they deserve. Ex: a 6WAR player signs a 25m contract and gets 8 WAR then they get paid 33M. If a player gets injured long term the MLB PA insurance kicks in for a certain amount based on amount available to split between players.
Add options to ALL rookie contracts out of the box. with Buy outs that incentivize keeping the player. If the player signs with a different team for a certain amount more than so much over the option price, the players bonus with the new team is halved for the first year. way to incentivize players to stay and teams to keep stars.
Draft Lottery for first 10 picks. I like the idea of teams that would be in the lottery based on certain criteria. don’t want them to lose the pick though.. just set it to after the lottery or at the end of the round for a harsher punishment for repeat offenders with some leway because sometimes players get injured and a team that may have been making a push run into bad luck. after a few years the lottery would probably be down to 6-8.
Agents would no longer be needed for rookie contracts only to help make sure that teams do not try to manipulate, but there is also much less to manipulate.
125 floor, 175 ceiling will get salaries skyrocketing in the right direction.
A 175 ceiling would be brutal for salaries.
MLB owners are STILL trying to implement a salary cap, more than a quarter century after the last time that there was a work stoppage in baseball.
MLB’s proposals for the CBT, with tiny increases in the tax thresholds and draconian penalties, would effectively turn the de facto cap into an almost hard cap. This was the same issue that resulted in the strike in 1994.
Not only is it the same issue, but their tactics are exactly the same. They refuse to bargain in good faith. Stalling negotiations, offering paltry increases in the minimum salary and host of other mostly meaningless changes- always offsetting any concession with even harsher takebacks in other areas. All the while, not moving on from their blood thirsty desire to put a hard limit on how much players can be paid.
The owners refused to bargain in good faith in 1994- 95. A federal court and the NLRB both made those findings on the record. They unilaterally declared an “impasse” and implemented their own terms, including a salary cap, eliminating arbitration, and wiping out the anti- collusion measures that were in the previous CBA.
All the while, MLB accuses the players of not accepting their generous concessions.
It’s the same tactics over the same issues. It’s a non starter and they know it.
Sorry, but making it more costly for teams to spend a ton on payroll is not a salary cap.
A salary cap forces you to stay below a certain amount, that is simply not the case here.
Every other major professional sport has a real salary cap, the MLBPA comes across as spoiled brats when they complain about the luxury tax.
This is the “If everyone else jumped off a bridge” argument. Why is a salary cap a good thing? MLB is more competitive than the other major sports despite not having a cap.
I have never supported a salary cap, my only objection is players crying about the luxury tax as if it was a cap.
But I do feel for all the small market teams that have hardly sniffed the postseason during the past 27 years. Obviously I’m a fan of a big market team, and I hafta say the fact my team had the highest payroll in MLB when they won their last championship kinda cheapens it for me.
The gap between the haves and have nots has never been so big. Last year seven teams had a payroll that was less than a third of the Dodgers payroll. How can that possibly be looked at as fair? With that kind of advantage, how can championships for big market teams be thoroughly enjoyed?
Not even championships. The Yanks have made the playoffs 23 out of the past 27 years. During those 27 years:
19 years they had the top payroll in MLB
6 years they had the 2nd-highest in MLB
1 year they had the 3rd-highest
How do you call that competitive?
And during that same 27 year period, the Mariners have made the postseason just 4 times (not since 2001)
And the Pirates made the postseason just 3 times.
And the Reds made the postseason just 5 times.
And the Padres made the postseason just 5 times.
And the Marlins made the postseason just 3 times.
And the Royals made the postseason just twice.
And the Orioles made the postseason just 5 times.
It’s just not as exciting when the same few teams are fighting for a championship almost every year, and the same third of the league has no shot nearly every year.
Personally I’d like to see the Larry Bird rule in MLB. Don’t penalize teams for re-signing their own players if it puts them over the threshold. But that probably makes too much sense, right?
Thanks for the explanations of what is going on behind the scenes!
this article is very nice, looking forward to updates. the service time manipulation is still the major issue not addressed – trying to add bonus money, draft picks, etc will only further the manipulation.
I think the players should offer to increase the service time requirement for super 2.1 to 2.5 years – where 0.5 years is 81 games. This makes the manipulation tougher to swallow for a good young player who can help the team, instead of hurting the player. Trying to hold a guy down for 3 months at the cost of a replacement player will be a major deterrent.
Another change that should be made to speed up the game is only one protesting a call per game. Right or wrong would eliminate all the nitpicking calls. I think originally instant replay was for the obvious missed calls. Now it’s got out of hand.
Remove revenue sharing and instead implement a salary floor! Come on MLB and MLBPA!
Tim, maybe I’m not understanding this MLB offer correctly: “MLB: Has proposed eliminating draft pick forfeiture for teams that sign free agents. Their plan still calls for teams to get draft picks for losing free agents, depending on the quality of the player. This offer seems to be tied to MLB’s CBT proposal as sort of a trade.”
Put aside the CBT trade, and look only at eliminating draft pick forfeiture. It presumably means that the teams get to monetize (with draft pick) a departing FA without having to do a QO. Why should a team be paid if it’s not willing to commit to take the player back? This reminds me of the old Class A/Class B system.
Mike – Sometimes the team isn’t willing to commit to take the player back, and sometimes the team is not able because they can’t afford it.
If Soto demands $500M from the Nats, you really think the decision to let him walk was because they didn’t want him back?
I take your point, but why should the “old” team simply get a draft pick when a (presumably good quality) player leaves. That’s no concession at all. Soto obviously isn’t the problem…any team that had him would offer a QO.
Well, it’s precisely why it isn’t a very good offer from MLB on either side of the equation. They’re not offering up anything of true value, or anything that helps fix the existing issues in the league. It’s an appeal to players that may be somewhat inhibited (albeit slightly) by an attached QO.
but why should the “old” team simply get a draft pick when a (presumably good quality) player leaves.
=================================
To keep the game competitive. If all you have is LAD, the RS, and the NYY signing another team’s players, the small market teams can’t compete. if the players are so interested in a more competitive landscape, they should be asking for more draft compensation, not less.
This, imho, is bad optics for the players. You cannot simultaneously be asking for more competition, and requesting the things that favor the large market teams.
Think about it. The players want:
Larger spending caps, which favor the large markets
Lower revenue sharing, which hurts the small markets.
No draft forfeitures for FA signings, which favors the large markets.
No draft comp for losing a FA, which hurts the small markets.
They claim to want more competition, but all their requests are anti-competitive.
Your definition of competitive seems to revolve around players of all stripes being willing to take a pay scale that the smallest team is willing to pay. That can’t be right….if Mike Trout were a free agent now we’d have no business telling him he has to play for the Reds for $3M a year because they are tanking. The owners proposals regarding competitiveness seem absent other than insisting players play for less.
And, one more question. Let’s say the departing Free Agent is a solid player, but a 2.5-3 WAR player, and you don’t want to spend $19M on him. Why would you be rewarded with a free draft-pick?
Right? It’s like another version of rewarding the small markets for NOT spending money or committing long-term to employees. It’s precisely the mentality that is causing the poor dynamic in today’s MLB, imho.
And, if they get the stiffer penalties, it’s essentially creating incentive to let FAs go to FA instead of re-signing them, while in FA teams will be capped and not allowed to spend, therefore won’t give anywhere near the money, nor have the competition for the service of the high-end FA. They’re boxing these guys out or forcing lower salaries and the players are seeing right through it.
It’s the same as always. The RS & NYY can gobble up all the big names. If the only thing that MLB relies on is the size of your market, the small market teams are doomed.
And this won’t help the players one iota. If the small market teams think they can play .500, they might get aggressive and sign a couple of guys to shoot for .500.
OTOH, if they are a 4.25 team, they won’t sign anyone.
But the Red Sox and Yankees (and Dodgers) don’t gobble up all the talent. Even they have limits…and in the Red Sox and Yankees case, looked for salary relief to stay under the cap. Instead, it’s the Rangers, Tigers, Blue Jays, Mets etc. who have dumped money in. Not one of the top fifty FA have been signed by either Yankees or Red Sox, if I’m not mistaken
Gerrit Cole wasn’t a top 50 free agent when he signed in New York?
You want to stop tanking? Relegation works quite effectively but would require structural changes
Minimum Salary: Make it $650K for this year, then goes up to $775K by end of the deal.
Competitive Balance Tax: I honestly think the players are being stupid on this one. It affects only a handful of teams and if those teams are allowed to spend freely, it hurts the competitive balance they claim they want. You’re not going to have 2/3 of the league butting up against the CBT. If they want a compromise, though, lower penalties on first-time offenders, keep them the same for second-time, raise them for third-time. Set the new CBT at $230M, then grows $5M per year.
Draft Pick Compensation
MLB’s plan makes sense.
Pre-Arbitration Bonus Pool
$30M pool, open to all pre-arb players with positive career WAR. Divide the pool proportionately according to WAR.
Arbitration Eligibility & Service Time Manipulation
Lumping these together because the solution is the same. If a player is brought up in the team’s first 30 games (these numbers assume, of course, the player is kept up for the year), he gets a year toward service time and arbitration. If brought up in games 31-81, he gets a year toward arb only. If brought up after, he gets neither.
Anti-Tanking Measures
Don’t muck with the draft. The problem isn’t tanking. It’s tanking with no intention of ever winning. Not every team has the resources of the Yankees. The best way for them to contend is to have a rebuild. The Cubs, Astros, and White Sox have all pulled this off. The Tigers are rising from theirs. It can be done and is good for the game. It’s teams like the Pirates that are the problem. Putting draft picks in jeopardy just means rebuilding teams take longer to be competitive while perennial cellar-dwellers couldn’t care less and might actually be happy to pick lower because it means less bonus money they have to pay out.
To fix perennial tanking, tie revenue sharing to wins. If a team loses 100 games in a row 3 straight years, 95 games 4 straight years, or finishes last in their division 4 years out of 5, hit their revenue sharing. This penalty increases until the third year when revenue sharing is docked 50%. Like the CBT, it would reset whenever these situations no longer apply. Once it costs the owners more money to lose than to win at least a little, they’ll try to win at least a little.
Revenue Sharing
Addressed above, largely, but I’d add that the rule on how to spend this money needs to be revamped. Now it’s that you have to spend it on bettering the team. Instead, it should be, “80% of revenue sharing must go to players, with an equal or greater amount from ownership.” If you can’t afford that, sell or move the team.
Expanded Playoffs
I don’t want more teams in the playoffs, but since it will happen, let it be 12. Top 2 in each league get a bye the first round, then the top seed picks its round 2 opponent. Also, players should get a larger share of the revenue from the playoffs.
Universal Designated Hitter
Holy crap! Did they actually agree on something?! (checks notes) Why, yes, yes, they did! Miracles *do* happen!
And though it’s not mentioned here, can we please let teams trade draft picks? Every other major sport does this. Why doesn’t baseball?
I like all your suggestions. The only thing I might offer is to tie revenue sharing to long-term spending. Call it a $90M minimum for sake of debate. If BA is terrible, there is no reason for them to spend this year. But if they only spend $50M, then they get $50M less in revenue sharing.
If they get to the point where they are good, and presumably spending, say $140M, then the league can release the $50M in revenue sharing they were holding back.
That would automatically address the difference between the ‘periodic spenders’ and the ‘never spenders’. If the league holds back payment of the revenue sharing, then there is no reason to not spend.
That might have the unintended consequence of encouraging cyclical tanking cycles. A team could spend little during the rebuild and get that money back to pursue top FA’s once it was good again. It might encourage them to spend more, but it feels like it almost creates an unfair advantage having an extra $50M that year to work with that a lot of other teams aren’t getting. I do like the out of the box thinking. Maybe there’s just a way to do it more slowly or to gain back just a significant portion instead of everything.
I’m certainly not married to any of my ideas (though close to that on the service time manipulation one). Mine would also probably have unintended consequences, too, like deadline deals once every three years to finish just barely better than 67-95. That said, there’s no system that can’t be manipulated; all you can do is make it harder to manipulate.
The meeting lasted all of 15 minutes with MLB walking out?! This was all for show, I don’t think either side is actually motivated to get a deal done.
I would not be the least bit surprised if there was no season at all. I will be watching lots of movies and the PGA Tour this summer
I’m more optimistic. I think games will start around June 1. The problem is owners are counting on the low-paid players to cave, and they will eventually, If the players union really wanted to send a message of solidarity, guys like Trout and Miggy and Cole would be offering their pre-arb teammates some money to help them get by if needed. (Not that you should need any help if you make $600K/yr).
clear and concise — thank you! I wonder if you could quantify boneheadedness.,..
The players seem to have a sound plan for anti-tanking measures. The owners don’t. MLB is simply presenting the antithetical argument to the MLBPA without addressing the core issue. I don’t think what they players are asking for is unreasonable at all as detailed above.
Ostensibly, the MLBPA is negotiating in far more good faith, particularly as it pertains to addressing the toxic effects of tanking and comp picks.
As an avid baseball fan, i will not go to a single game again if something isnt resolved soon
Regarding, MLB’s Service Time Manipulation, “Offering two draft picks within the player’s first three years if he finishes in the top three in Cy Young, Rookie of the Year or MVP voting.”
Can someone explain this to me like I’m five? How is this a solution? The player won’t get compensated. The player can still be voted in top three of those categories if he is held down after the Super Two cutoff point.
Thanks for the info. Can you notate any gaps closing on these issues after each side sends in a proposal?
Universal DH, oh joy! Let’s have a man on second to start extra innings and let the hitters use a rubber tee. If the game goes to the 11th, no outfielders can have a glove. Casey Stengel is spinning in his grave.
Casey was actually a very innovative manager! He used platoons at catcher, first, and outfield. He shifted players, and didn;t pitch Ford at Boston much!
Let’s make it $300 million and four years of team control and two years of arbitration. Top 90 players in year three get some bonus monies above the top salary of $725,000. The next year the salry is $850,000 and top 125 players get bonux money. Pay for producition, not just service.
Of course, arbitration salaries in years 5 and 6 would be considerably less, which ownership would love.
PA trying to make up all that was ‘lost’ in previous CBA’s all at once. Good luck with that. Lockout might not even be half over.
My take on the universal DH- as long as there is consistency, I’m fine. I’m a Sox fan, so I’m used to the DH but I like the traditional rules better (pitchers hit). That being said, the game has changed, DH is the future. As long as we don’t trade rules per league, I’ll take one or the other. Having both between leagues makes things complicated. Stay consistent!
MLB: Base tax thresholds at $214MM in 2022/ $214MM in 2023/ $216MM in 2024 / $218MM in 2025 / $222MM in 2026. Also proposing significant increases in tax rates on overages and new draft pick penalties.
MLBPA: $245MM in 2022 / $252MM in 2023 / $259MM in 2024 / $266MM in 2025 / $273MM in 2026
Current gap: $31MM in 2022, growing to $51MM in 2026. Gap also includes MLB’s proposed increases in tax rates and addition of draft pick forfeiture
This seems to be the sticking point in all of this. All the other issues can be figured out but this one is the hill to die on for the owners and the players. The players understand that MLB is trying to get to a salary cap and each concession on this gets them closer to a true salary cap. If this happens they will have the same terrible system the NFLPA is under.
Lets start at the end and work backwards over a series of posts.
The MLB’s proposal of the Universal DH is contingent on the MLBPA accepting a 14 team expansion of playoffs. No 14 team playoffs, no DH.
The MLBPA has said that if the season does not start on time that they are not open to any change of the current playoff format in 2022.
Revenue Sharing
MLB is adamant that there be no change in revenue sharing.
The MLBPA is asking for two changes, not one. The most important is a change in language, not dollars.
Currently to receive revenue sharing a team is not required to improve the team on the field. In other words, they don’t have to spend any of the money on MLB payroll. The MLBPA is asking that language be added to the agreement that 100% of revenue sharing received must be spent on the active roster payroll. The $30 million reduction is a penalty that would only be applied to those teams that spent less on MLB payroll than they received in revenue sharing such as the Pirates, Marlins, Guardians.
The MLBPA’s largest Anti-Tanking measure is the language change in the revenue sharing proposal,. Teams must be forced to spend their revenue sharing money to improve the team on the field to combat tanking.
The draft pick lottery is secondary. MLB went from no lottery to 4 teams, which is movement, but the draft lottery will not help solve tanking. Read Rosenthal’s article on it.
It also will not make any changes in the larger imbalance in revenue equity between the players and the owners.
Mlbpa should have said 100% of revenue sharing be spent on active payroll back on day 1. Glad they’ve made that their position, the idea to scrap revenue sharing was idiotic
If the teams are excluded from a draft pick lottery for not meeting thresholds, that means some teams never eligible for the lottery. The Tigers didn’t tank. They had a bunch of high paid, one dimensional, injury prone underperformers. They had to clean house and that took a few years.
I can’t wait for the universal DH so that this becomes a purely theoretical argument that eventually evaporates into the winds of history. None of the arguments for pitchers hitting have a modicum of validity, and I look forward to not having to listen to them anymore.
I remember when the AL adapted the DH in 73. The Tigers’ Billy Martin platooned Gates Brown and Frank Howard. Because the team was old, he platooned every position except 3B where he had celebrated defender Aurelio Rodriguez. He manipulated the lineup including the DH throughout the entire game. Unlike Sparky Anderson who managed the Tigers later, Martin changed pitchers according on how they were pitching, not who was batting. Both he and Earl Weaver often pinch hit for SS, other positions as well as the DH.
Martin, Weaver, Whitey Herzog, Dick Williams and Ralph Houk always tried to outfox each other.
Other teams’s fan base enjoyed watching veterans DH full time with favorites such as Tony Olivia, Orlando Cepeda, Frank Robinson and Tommy Davis take ABs vs watching pitcher and a not good enough to play full time pinch hitter “strategy”.
The 76 Reds used LH Dan Dreisen to balance the lineup as a full time DH during the WS. Driesen destroyed Yankees pitching.
Anyone realize there is next to no budging on their offers ?
So if this negotiation started with both teams standing on their own goal lines they’re both at about the 5 and they move forward an inch at a time.
The best way to ensure better competition is a salary floor. Several teams just aren’t spending, and a couple of those don’t even up their spending when they are competitive. I’m sure the players won’t complain. But at the same time, a hard salary cap is needed, someone cited the Yankees being in the top 2 or 3 of payroll every year and being a playoff team most of the time. There’s a correlation.
You have guys making $30 million or more per year, I think that MLB’s current minimum is less of a % of the top salary than the other sports (can’t speak for NBA, don’t watch it).
The DH argument is humorous, with some folks pointing out the few historical circumstances when a pitcher hit competently, Babe Ruth and Otani aside. For every one of those there are 100 situations where there are 2 on, 2 out, you’re down by 1 in the 8th or 9th and the pitcher meekly pops up or grounds out.
Someone suggested tying draft slots and anti-tanking measures to record, but that means getting rid of unbalanced schedules and probably divisions. An Eastern/Western conference format with the best 6 teams in each conference making the playoffs. That would be best for the game, but they won’t do it because Yankees and Red Sox fans want to see them play each other 19 times a year and forget the rest of the game.
Putting WAR into service time manipulation is completely dumb. Then you’ll have teams keeping their best prospect down until Memorial Day because then they can nearly guarantee that player won’t finish in the top 7 in WAR by position.
They have a long way to go. if there is a sense of urgency to this week, no one’s rushing to meet at the 50 yard line.
Anyone who believes the owners are crying poverty for good reason, I have a bridge to sell you. There wouldn’t be people clamoring to own a team when there’s an opening, and there would be 8 owners who couldn’t sell fast enough. They won’t open their books for a reason.
Service Time and Arbitration DESPERATELY needs to be changed. The MLB can have as many playoff teams as they want so long as players get to have control of the future and sooner.
Hold strong, owners! And don’t give in anymore!! Enough is enough!!!
This would be MUCH better if it showed what the current CBA provides on these issues…
That draft lottery really ought to change things dramatically.
Pittsburgh will probably go all in for a championship with that development.
Opening Day: 05/01/2022
They seem so far apart. Seems if there is any real chance of a deal in the near future each side will have to cave on a major issue. The two biggest ones seem to be pre ARB salaries and luxury tax. If the players union is really looking out for the best interest of the players as a whole they will hold out for the pre ARB stuff over the luxury tax. That would benefit a lot more players than an increase in the luxury tax. Honestly as a fan I don’t have the luxury tax. It at least makes things a little more fair the smaller market teams.
IRT to the tanking and draft, the lottery will make no difference.
1-The O’s, for example, aren’t tanking. They are just bad.
2-The O’s for example, aren’t going to spend one extra dime just because there is a lottery instead of a draft. There is absolutely no logic, that I can think of, that would motivate them to spend another $50M to move from 30th worst to only 25th worst.
3-Conversely, a lottery will provide much more motivation for more teams to tank. A team like Colorado, for example, has -0- chance at the #1 pick. They were 22 games better than the O’s. However, they were only 3 games ahead of the Cubs for the #7 slot.
This almost guarantees that more teams will tank, because the rewards are potentially much higher.
Is there a way you guys can post dates when each topic was last discussed in meetings?
Let’s wipe off the smirks on Manfred and Clarks faces in this post and just get a deal done.
Let’s all of us as baseball fans protest and just boycott MLB if a deal is not done by 2/28
Sick and tired of this lockout. They meet for a few days since dec 1St. Ridiculousness.
Asinine is the word. Hell I’ll open the gates in the spring training facilities in Fl and AZ. and let the players train. At least they can be ready come March 31st
It’s not that pitchers don’t know the basics of how to hit. Most of these pitchers can not afford to lose their money making arm and shoulder. Potential injury plays the biggest factor as to why they don’t want to swing anymore. Bring on the DH.
Is it me or are they getting further apart on these issues?
It’s you. However, it’s 1 week ago you so today’s you might have a different comment.
I would have a different comment today. Still a ways to go, but at least I have a little optimism now that a deal can get done in time to have baseball by the start of May.
MLBPA shifting its Super Two ask from 75% of players to 35% at once was foolish. They went from 100% to 80% to 75% while the owners didn’t budge at 22%. Very poor negotiating decision, MLBPA.
They began at ridiculous, lowered to fanciful, inched toward reality, and never understood this was not where MLB was negotiating.
Rewarding the “few” (22%!) by awarding them an extra year of arbitration is reasonable. Rewarding a third or a half or all of them is stepping away from recognizing excellence to making it just a 2-year of team control.
Is Manfredo and Mr. Roper the same guy?
Best idea I ever had: revenue recieving teams money is put into a pool. Those teams can spend money in that pool. Once it gone-its gone. Put limits on amount spent on any 1 player.
Teams that don’t quickly sign FA, lose out(pit,oak,TB,…)
I’ll be honest while I am all for stars getting paid, I think the minimum salary should be the maximum amount that social security is paid on 147k for 2022 and all travel expenses covered by the team. If you show your not a scrub than arbitration should take care of you, if you are a scrub than you still got a pretty good years pay likely a free education if you weren’t a scrub in H.S and college and you can move on to something you are more suited too like the rest of us that pay the ticket price to watch games. All in all baseball would have been pretty good to you. I just can’t feel bad for a guy making 570k a year to hit a ball. Not when a Sgt of Marines makes 42K
Ridiculous take dude…these guys bring in billions of dollars and deserve to be paid accordingly, just like you would. What a marine makes is completely irrelevant and not an apt analogy to begin with.
You think owners deserve 90% of all profits?
The owners could give a little more, the MLBPA are just flat out making unreasonable demands. And then not wanting an international draft is absolutely stupid.
Advertising on helmets and uniforms?
Are the owners trying to put the final nails in baseball’s coffin or what!?
How can they be so blind with greed?
Love how easy this is to read and understand. Thanks!
Jeff Passan is a hack.
I am going to be arrogant,
Presumptuous too, but,
I declare on behalf of us all,
Play Ball.
#BantheDH
the MLBPA’s Lottery proposal is way out there.
Nice to see Mr. Roper with a full smile!
Fine Print, Baby, Fine Print
So, if I understand this correctly:
Aside from kicking the final (and yet we all know this is likely only the first of many times it will arise as an “issue”!) decision on the International Draft down the road a few months, all that’s left is for the details to be decided and announced? At this point, it looks like splitting the difference on everything else makes them both look good.
what do larger bases accomplish?
Is this going to be updated with the final details or is there a post like this with all the results?