The Atlanta Braves recently discussed a Craig Kimbrel trade with the White Sox, according to Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic, before the Braves signed Kenley Jansen. That one-year, $16MM deal for Jansen is an exact match for the one-year and $16MM remaining on Kimbrel’s contract, which perhaps suggests that Atlanta’s pursuit of Kimbrel is no longer in the cards.
Even before last year’s playoffs were finished, the writing seemed to be on the wall for Kimbrel and the White Sox. Reports at that time stated that the club’s plan was to pick up Kimbrel’s $16MM option and then trade him in the winter. With Liam Hendriks already present as an elite closer, Kimbrel was seen as surplus to requirements. Prior to the lockout, the club further bolstered their bullpen with the signing of Kendall Graveman, seemingly only increasing the odds of a Kimbrel trade. During the lockout, MLBTR listed him as one of the players most likely to be dealt in the post-lockout period.
However, after ten days of post-lockout frenzy and with Opening Day just over two weeks away, Kimbrel is still on the roster. The club also added yet another hard-throwing reliever recently, signing Joe Kelly to a two-year, $17MM deal.
Although the clock is ticking, there are still reasons to think Kimbrel could eventually be moved. The White Sox are currently projected for a payroll of $194MM, per Jason Martinez of Roster Resource. That’s miles beyond the club’s record for an Opening Day number, which was last year’s $129MM, per Cot’s Baseball Contracts. Between Hendriks, Kimbrel, Graveman and Kelly, they have over $44MM devoted to four relievers this year. While they could just roll into the season trying to have a super bullpen, it still seems more likely that they look to subtract Kimbrel’s salary from the ledger. The Blue Jays were recently reported to have checked in on Kenley Jansen. With Jansen now signed to the Braves, perhaps the Jays and any unknown Jansen suitors could now pivot to a Kimbrel deal instead.
2022 World Series matchup
Have my doubts the White Sox make the playoffs in 2022.
I think they’ll make it, just not confident in them going far in the playoffs.
Kimbrel will right the ship but probably not for a few months. And I’m sure La Russa will lose patience before that.
Of course they’re going to make the playoffs.
Sure are, @coop.
That is the same poster who predicted that the Orioles would finish ahead of the Yankees last season.
Which is the HOTTAKE equivalent of whiffing on a beach ball. Thrown underhand. On a calm day. Using a tennis racket.
@Ducky. I have no doubt the Yankees finish ahead of the Orioles in the standing at the end of the year. I really thought the Yankees would at least sign Story. Hal must be saving all his dough for a Judge extension? I love Donaldson but he’s 36 now and has trouble staying in the lineup. He’s a ultimate competitor though.
Nor do I, @McGriff.
No disrespect intended for @Fomiel & the rest of the Orioles guys on the board. But Baltimore still has quite a bit of work to do yet.
I am vastly underwhelmed by our off-season, man. & – yeah – the Judge extension is certainly being paraded as the reason for not spending.
As is, our offense is in trouble.
I harbor pretty strong doubts that we have enough bats to keep pace in the AL East. Not as is anyway.
I came across this interview with Chipper Jones the other day about how Freddie Freeman didn’t really want to go to the Dodgers and how it happened if anyone is interested. This is the 2nd interview Chipper has done like this. He did a similar interview with Buster Olney but that one is behind a paywall. This one is free from a radio show if anyone is interested. It’s a great interview:
omny.fm/shows/chuck-and-chernoff/hall-of-famer-chi…
I have my doubts about your sanity.
@ SCOTTG3 & thelegendaryharambe;
The White Sox are very probably the most overrated team in MLB. Even more so than the Yankees.
Their baserunning is bad. Their defense remains atrocious. Their pitching is decent but hardly outstanding. They exhibit low baseball IQ’s during a game – they pretty much want to hit HR’s and figure that all they need to do to win. The problem is that they don’t know how to win if the opposing team limits their HR’s.
I believe Cleveland will give them a good run in 2022 if their pitchers come back healthy. Francona knows how to win games. The Tigers and Royals ae not going to be pushovers in that division.
Playing sloppy baseball has been a hallmark of the Sox during Kenny Williams tenure in the Sox FO – other then when Ozzie was managing…..and Ozzie fought with him tooth and nail over the players being brought in. The last time I watched a Sox game was when the CF – an incredibly gifted player – ran into the infielders area on a short fly ball, almost collided with the infielder and looked at him, then the ball came down and bounced off his head. First off, it was sickening. Next, I’d seen the Sox give up little league HR’s by throwing the ball around for years…running into outs on the bases, etc.
I have doubts the ALC will be the pushover it has been for the last 2-4 years as 3 teams were going through forms of rebuilds.
@Sam. You think the Orioles will finish ahead of the Yankees in 2022? Just wondering if you want to double down on that pro prediction. =))
I will lay 9-2 odds he never gets back to you. You can’t honestly believe that I – personally – haven’t made the same inquiry as yours.
The result: Radio Silence.
I wouldn’t doubt it’s an annual tradition with him. & – hey – he’ll be right one of these years. But: wasn’t last year, won’t be ’22 either.
Lay off the drugs
I believe that team won 92 games after that play last year on April 3th or 4th…shows how much you know.
92 games won as Eloy, Robert, Grandal all missed significant time while the rotation had 3 go down for extended times. If Eloy, Robert & Grandal stay healthy along with starting rotation it just might be a walk to playoffs. Andrew & Sheets holding down right with platoon will combined to hit 35+ HR & 100+ RBI. Healthy Sox will plow through division. Huge disappointment from added players. Should had done more & it pisses me off
Think about this for a little bit before you respond to what I am about the White Sox. The White Sox dealt with significant injuries to Jimenez, Robert, Madigral, Grandal and Anderson for a big chunk of the season yet still managed to win games with bench players. Needless to say, the White Sox’s pitching stepped up for three months in the season when Jimenez, Grandal, Robert and Madigral were hurt where they were replaced by bench players. Unfortunately, Lynn to Rodon were overused and slowed down in the last month due to getting hurt while Cease shined in his full major league season as a starting pitcher. Just imagine how many games the White Sox could have won with a fully healthy line up in 2021. If this White Sox’s line up is healthy in 2022 expect the same results as last year with more wins.
Everyone deals with injuries, everyone. They will have injuries next season too. They also got a Cy young performance out of Rodon for the first half of the season who was signed as a 5th starter. It takes depth, luck, and a few guys playing out of their shoes at the right times. They will be good but the rest of the division is getting better.
Sox need to bring back Ozzie.
In all reality, the White Sox did deal with some major injuries from the start of the season going into the June yet still pulled off winning games in that stretch. Rodon did have a Cy Young caliber first half but started to slow down after his first full season coming off Tommy John surgery.
You are right the division is a little better this season. The Tigers improved this season with picking up Baez and Rodriguez, however, the key is in their young pitching staff with a guy like Mize and along with their young guys like Tolkerson and Greene coming up this season. The Twins signing Correa looks good on paper but his injury history is very questionable, but picking up Sonny Gray does not seem enough for that pitching rotation. Do the Twins have the assets to get Montas or Manaea or do the White Sox outbid them with guys like Burger or Sheets or Vaughn? The Guardians’ pitching staff looks legit if their guys stay healthy but they don’t have much offense. The Royals are the one team that actually can make noise with bringing in Greinke to mold their young pitchers with some great players on the offensive side.
The key in the American League Central Division is to what team makes a solid trade or signing from now until the trade deadline. Pitching wins games! The Sox have a few assets to move right now with guys blocking them along with some guys coming up in the next year or two. Needless to say, the American League Central will be one of the best divisions to watch this season.
I think Sox are still the best team but it’s a lot closer. My point was every team lost good players for extended time last year, the white Sox weren’t special. The Braves won the World Series and had better players out for the year. Some of the posts above made it sound like they would of won 115 games if everyone was healthy. Eloy wasn’t good when healthy. Some of those injuries might of worked in their favor.
The Braves lost Acuna then made moves for Pederson, Soler and Rosario to fill in that void with losing Acuna. The Braves’ infield of Freeman, Albies, Swanson and Riley stayed intact.
The difference between the Braves and the White Sox was the White Sox had three major bats missing in that line up for a significant time with Grandal, Jimenez and Grandal, then had their fourth outfileder out most of the season. Vaugh was thrown in right field, Adam Eaton was signed to play every few games where he had to start moat of the season, Billy Hamilton had to start games then Brian Goodwin was brought in and Madigral tore his hamstring were Leury Garcia had to move around all over the field before the trade for Hernandez.
Bringing in Josh Harrison to split time Leury Garcia at second was a great move. The White Sox will monitor Yolbert Sanchez from now until his time in the minor leagues to see his progress. Yolbert had a great year in the minors last season. The question is who plays the outfield with Jimenez and Robert! I am sure Sheets, Vaughn and Engel will aolit time with giving days off to Jimenez or Robert.
CJML, I agree with you with the American League Central being close this year. There is no doubt that the Tigers and Royals are going to be better while the Twins and Guardins have questions. The Twins pitching staff does not impress me and the Guardians are in turmoil.
I guess the point is sometimes Jorge Soler on a heater is just as good as Ronald Acuna. I know Godwin hit out of his mind for a stretch for the white Sox. Wasn’t Yermin babe Ruth reincarnated for 2 weeks or maybe that was the year before last. You have to have depth because the injuries come. White Sox had some holes but not sure they fixed this off-season. They still have a really good team.
“The White Sox exhibit low baseball IQ and pretty much want to hit HRs and figure that all they need to do to win”. You realize they were 19th in MLB and 11th in the AL in HRs? 4th in OPS. 2nd in OBP? But hey, don’t let the facts get in the way of a good pull stuff out of your arse yarn.
Hey, welcome to; Sam’s Journal.
He is a regular on all Yankee threads. Supposedly as a guy who “hates” us. Yet he claims to watch all of our games too. So: go figure.
But bringing facts & intelligence to a discussion with him is a losing battle.
One example:
“Defensive metrics are bogus. I can’t understand how they are calculated.” ~ Samuel
Yeee-ahhhhhhh….not much there to work with, man.
Thanks for the heads up Ducky. Having worked in Baltimore, I can relate to the sad sack nature of a sizable segment of their Fandom, overwhelmed whenever Yankees Red Sox, (well jeez any MLB team with a fan base) fans took over their once fashionable stadium.
You obviously don’t watch the Sox at all, their pitching is more then decent.. top 3-5 pitching all of last year and that was with the BP not performing up to their standards. I think the Bullpen will bounce back this year and show everyone they have the best pitching in the American League . That may have been their motive years ago to just outslug everyone with their “homeruns” but that wasn’t the case last year, they didn’t hit that many.. I can tell you didn’t watch Sox baseball at all.
The White Sox will sleepwalk to at least the division title.
I wouldn’t say that. They are the faves for sure, but I wouldn’t sleep on Detroit. They were a good second half team and made some really nice improvements.
Tigers definitely have something going on.
But – for ’22 at least – they need more good fortune than the White Sox do. I think they’ll have a winning record. Hard for me to see Chicago not winning 90+ games though.
Tigers much improved with some reinforcements coming from the minors. The Royals also have some big time prospects coming and the Twins have reworked a roster that clearly wasn’t working. It’s going to be an interesting division. I am not sure the Sox are better than the 2021 team but they still probably have enough.
Tigers started 9–24, then went 68-61 after that.
Should be an exciting team for the next few years.
They pushed the Yanks all over the field when we caught them last summer, Dusty. It was easy enough to see at that point that they were coming out of their rebuild.
I get to the U.P. once or twice/year.
Great people. Great fans. I can’t help but root for their success.
@thelegendaryharambe
If not the team, then definitely their manager!
@Samuel
If any of the 4 other teams in the Central finish within 10 games of the White Sox, they should consider it a moral victory.
As for the sloppy baseball during KW’s tenure in the FO–sure, especially in ’05 when they won the WS. You might want to do a little research before you post. I know, you see research as a weakness, just like you see facts and common sense as signs of weakness.
But you keep doing you, it’s good comic relief for the rest of us,
White Sox are yet again in a great position to not only make the playoffs, but give many younger players some considerable time developing in the bigs. We have a lot of luxuries here, regardless of injuries.
They will make the playoffs every year till 2032
Nah. White Sox will choke. Unless they pay at least half his salary, the white Sox won’t get much for Kimbrel. I doubt they do that. Reinsdorf seems cheap. Not Ricketts cheap but cheap nonetheless. I could be wrong.
Then they will keep him.
Sox currently have 5th highest payroll in MLB.
JR NOT cheap!
Reinsdorf is way cheaper than Ricketts. I mean it is a joke by the numbers. The Cubs payroll was 3rd in 2019 and 2020, and like 13th last year, still ahead of the Sox even though the Cubs were not even trying. I know the Cubs were pretty high from 2015-2018 as well. Sox have not had a 3rd ranked payroll in 4 decades. The Sox were 26th in payroll in 2019, 20th in 2020, and 15th last year. They are higher this year, but still. Ricketts gave Jon Lester a 155M contract for 6 years almost a decade ago. The biggest contract the Sox have given during this rebuild is less than half that, 4 years of Grandal for 73 million. This after feigning attempts to sign Machado for what would have been a 270M contract or something, which they made sure to conveniently lose the bidding on. The Sox have not signed any FA this offseason who will make even as much as 10M in 2022, and all their additions are 1-2 year deals, preventing them from addressing any of their weaknesses with real players.
Please… nobody can compare Rickett’s cheapness to Jerry. Jerry’s net worth up like 200M from 2020 too. He is king of wealth hoarding. His relationship with his checkbook is like Gollum! Cubs have done way more than what the Sox have this offseason with Stroman and Seiya. Seiya’s contract alone bigger than any in Sox history.
Last time I checked they have the same amount World Championships since 2000. You can call Reinsdorf cheap but they’ll be $50M above the Cubs this year.
That’s one year out of the last 10 that the Sox have been higher. In a year when the Cubs are rebuilding and the Sox are coming off a division title. At least the Cubs had a couple other NLCS appearances sandwiching their World Series. Sox will be lucky to win a playoff series before their window is closed. You are right though, Chicago baseball is not a historically successful venture for being 3rd largest city!
Jhome, salty much? The White Sox locked up their core with forward thinking win/win deals. The Cubs, not so much. Citing biblical losses, they let everyone go, starting with Darvish. The Sox rewarded franchise icon Jose Abreu their clubhouse leader, and he’s now been actively recruiting prospects in his home country who look to him as an idol. The Cubs couldn’t even do right by fan favorite who might have accepted a home town discount, and instead engaged in a petty, he said/she said dispute that went public, burning bridges with the heart and soul of their championship team, all to save a few million. But hey, dont let the facts get in the way. You do you. Enjoy paying over inflated prices for beverages at that tacky bro-culture universe the Ricketts have constructed outside of Wrigley.
13 – Good Luck!
Lynn
Giolito
Kopech
Cease
Kuechel
Velasquez
Lopez
Bummer
Crochet
Graveman
Kimbrel
Kelly
Hendriks
He’s frugal not cheap. You’re cheap
Stupid by CWS, just run with a stacked bullpen – injuries will happen.
Right plus Liam Hendricks is not a shutdown closer, if he struggles they will have no one to use. Let’s also consider that Kopech will be used as a starter this season taking out a big bullpen piece!
He’s one of the best closers in baseball.
Kimbrell is, Hendricks not so much.
What are you talking about? Huh?? Have you watched MLB since 2019?
@Moneyballer. Hendricks has not had a K9 less than 13 the last three seasons, his W9 was 0.9 last season and he lead the league in saves. I don’t know what you think a lock down closer is.
Look at Kimbrels k/9 better than Liam. Plus you’re dumbing down the position by just looking at k/9 ratio. Give me a break!
@ Moneyballer
Liam Hendriks has been the best closer in MLB over the past three seasons. As for his SO/W, he has been in a class by himself during during the past two seasons.
With the A’s in 2020 Hendriks posted a 13.1 SO/9 and 1.1 BB/9 which resulted in a remarkable 12.33 SO/W ratio. Last season with the White Sox he upped his whiff rate to 14.3 SO/9 and reduced his already stingy walk numbers to 0.9 BB/9 which manifested into a ridiculous 16.14 SO/W ratio: baseball-reference.com/players/h/hendrli01.shtml
During the past 3 seasons Craig Kimbrel actually bested Hendriks impressive SO/9 but that was it. Virtually every other stat showed Kimbrel well behind Hendriks including his SO/W that was negatively impacted by a much poorer BB/9, to say nothing of inferior WHIP, SV and ERA numbers over the past 3 seasons. baseball-reference.com/players/k/kimbrcr01.shtml
I would have Kimbrel closing & Hendricks pitching the 8th.
First of all, at this point in time. Liam is light years better than Craig. But if I really thought that Craig would be good in the 9th, but trash in the 8th, , I might see what Liam thinks about pitching the 8th and providing him incentives. But if I did this it would be because of Craig’s deficiencies, not because Liam is better. As I said a few months ago, trading Nick and Codi for Craig was a reasonable gamble for a playoff bound team. No problem with that deal. But picking up a $16 million option on a failed experiment was stupid for any team because even if they could trade Kimbrel for a prospect the $16 million could get them a better prospect, say by taking on a bad contract (like Kimbrel) paired with a good prospect.
@Manny spot on comment on LIam/Kimbrel. I hope they try Kimbrel in the 9th because I think he has psychological issues with the 8th. Some guys do. Maybe that wont’ fix him either, but he was really good with the Cubs last year as closer, and awful as setup for the Sox. Either he does well at closer, and maybe they can trade him – or he is going to be a complete waste of 16m. I think him having success as setup guy is very unlikely.
@mannybeingmvp you’re not wrong about the option but i think the issue is that while Hahn can be pragmatic and has stayed true to his word, he does not appear to have the same grasp of game theory or forward planning as many other execs. He doesn’t give the appearance of someone thinking two or three moves ahead on these deals, and instead has shown his value by reacting to the current situation and improving it, whatever that may be at the time. He may well improve on the current situation (aging closer who can’t pitch the 8th on albatross contract), but whatever the outcome of the next move is, it will surely put us behind where we would be under your scenario or where we were 2-3 moves prior.
You’re not the coach You won’t be doing anything but watching them on tv
Moneyballer2 hours ago
Right plus Liam Hendricks is not a shutdown closer,
=================================
Can you please check some stats if you’re not sure? Over the past 3 years, he is light years the best closer in BB.
Not a shut down closer do your watch the games?
Then there’s no such thing as a shut down closer
Lol at stupid by CWS. I think you’re missing the point of them considering trading him.
You mean it’s better to stack up a payroll of talented players totaling 194 million than shedding some of that to reduce payroll?
Who would have thought of that shedding talented but highly paid players would make them worse??
In that case it’s stupid they didn’t sign Jansen to add to the group. What’s another $16 mil?
It’s stupid to pay $16M to a set-up man.
Look at Kimbrels k/9 better than Liam. Plus you’re dumbing down the position by just looking at k/9 ratio. Give me a break!
@jolly no one ever said the white sox were wise with their money! They have two overpaid closers right now, smart!
I think that’s the idea As fan. Can never be too certain. Wouldn’t be too surprised to see some flip flipping w Liam getting high leverage situations in the 7th or 8tb as circumstances dictate and Kimbrel getting the traditional save opportunity. They couldn’t do that last year on the fly during the pennant drive but could easily do that going forward. Something like a Nasty Boys bullpen. That was one of my faves. While roles were pretty much set, each of Charlton, Dibble and Myers functioned as a primary closer at some point in their storied careers.
Jays and white sox just makes to much sense trading partner wise in a kimbrel trade
What do the jays give up?
Grich to offset salary, or nothing at all cause of the bloated contract
They take on a bad contract and give up someone on the bubble of the 40 man.
I think vladdy Guerrero and Nate Pearson might get it done. Emphasis on might
I don’t know Jamie, they might have to also throw in Bichette.
Maybe if it’s Dante and Vlad Sr.
Jays give up their worst player in A-ball, and White Sox pay about 25% of Kimbrel’s contract for the Jays.
* too *
Grichuk and mcguire
If the Braves are somehow still in the mix, it would have to be a deal where the Sox would have to eat most or all of his salary. That said, I don’t think the Braves have what it take or should trade what little valuable prospects we have left for kimbrell. Even if his salary is completely paid for
Why would the White Sox eat most or all of the salary on a guy who they just exercised their club option on that’s a terrible argument.
Why would another MLB team take on anything close to that salary? Especially after the way he pitched once the White Sox got him.
@Samuel Never said they would or wouldn’t. What I did say was that if they don’t the White Sox will simply keep him.
What are you telling me I’m wrong about?
OK. Moving on.
@Samuel The White Sox agreeing to pay part of Kimbrel’s salary to get rid of him.
Samuel — moving on? Seems more like you live for this. Do you follow other teams? Sports? Hobbies? Pets? Girlfriend/boyfriend? Seems like you have a lot of time invested here.
Why would the White Sox exercise the option on a player they don’t want, and then, even though they haven’t traded him, add relief pitching as if they had? That’s a terrible argument! If Atlanta was willing to take the salary for a lottery ticket, Chisox should have taken it!
Braves should have focused on Solar.
Rosario was the much smarter choice for the Braves. Soler isn’t great defensively and is streaky.
Rosario’s a lefty and is cheaper. I think that made the difference. I like both players, but there wouldn’t be room for everyone after Acuna comes back.
Unfortunately, we have Ozuna, which is a similar player to Soler. Right handed power bat with limited defense.
Would I rather have Soler than Ozuna? 100 times yes. But we’re stuck with him, so might as well get out $$$ worth
Phillies” signing of Torreyes frees up Didi for a trade along with a couple of mid-range minor leaguers. If the White Sox insist, the Phils can cover half of Didi’s salary now that they are willing to go over the CBT limit.
Do you really want Ronald Torreyes as your starting SS?
White Sox should keep Kimbrel and use him as their closer, he’s better than Liam Hendricks!
Your delusional
Kinda weird to stop mid-sentence.
Beat me to it.
Everyone simping on the braves.
Too much bullpen for the Sox. If you can’t put runs on the board against quality pitching, your bullpen is irrelevant. Case in point, the White Sox last two postseason appearances.
Boston, jays, Mets, Marlins, Phillies, reds, ranchers, padres, dodgers, Angels, and twins that could use some help
Since you’re including other non-playoff teams there, you may as well add the Cubs. They need a closer. They could trade a second baseman to the Sox. Hmm, how bout Madrigal?
A front office would have to be pretty out of touch to trade Magrigal for Kimbrel.
A team not certain to make the playoffs would never made that trade. A trade looking at the post-season might make that trade and then find that the gamble failed.
Sox have Josh Harrison now; new 2nd bsmn
After all the signings, and Iglesias as their closer, they dont need Kimbrel. Not for 16 million.
So now you saying Iglesias better than Kimbrell…check history book darling
They could keep him but I don’t think it makes for a better bullpen, considering Kimbrel’s performance after being traded to the Sox. Maybe he just can’t get that same adrenaline from pitching in the 8th inning.
Kimbrel always seemed horrible in non-save situations. He stopped walking guys and serving up fastballs over the middle of the plate for half of year in 2021. His last appearance before they traded him in looked like classic 2020 kimbrel. He walked a guy gave up a hit but somehow got out of it. With all that said when you watch him his stuff looks filthy.
Bullpen guys are the most volatile component of an MLB team.
Kimbrel is very much like Eric Gagne. When he was pitching well he dominated. But when he wasn’t he took his entire team down with him.
When a bullpen guy like Kimbral is being paid a huge salary while the team is up against its budget ceiling, it pretty much ties the FO’s hands if he suddenly goes south for any reason. I’d like to say that teams will be watching how he pitches in 2022 before trying to trade for him……but he sure looked dominating till the day the White Sox got him in 2021.
I think smart FO’s have learned to do with the bullpens what they do with other areas of the team – spread out the risk by giving the manager multiple options of good players as opposed to putting their eggs in one basket. It’s cheaper and more effective.
@Samuel- Kimbrel is not really like Gagne, no. He’s dominant when used correctly.
What about 2019 or 2020?
Kimbrel is a great pitcher, but he’s a Closer. That’s where he thrives. A quick check of Baseball Reference shows he had a 0.99 ERA in the ninth inning last season, but a mid-four ERA when used outside the 9th.
Closer is a mindset. That’s why some guys can do it, and some guys can’t. I’d take Kimbrel on my favorite club any day, though. It shouldn’t be difficult for my manager to figure out how to use him. If it is, I need a new manager.
Last year is last year…..your points are pointless rambling. You’re very uninteresting as a fan of baseball
Kimbrel will have to go somewhere that doesn’t need him because if you need a closer really bad, he’s too much a roll of the dice. White Sox have to be hoping for him to be half decent in the first half, and a contender’s closer goes down with a lengthy injury.
If Kimbrel is added, Hader trade to come?
The Sox made a stupid decision, first by acquiring him for what they gave up, then by picking up his option before the lockout and now theyre compounding the issue by signing both Graveman and Kelly, making it well known they want no part of Kimbrel, so why would anyone offer much at all? Let them pay him $16mil to complain and moan and they’ll hv to include a prospect(a good one) to get rid of him at the deadline……..Jays should offer Grichuk and only Grichuk, they give up 2yrs @ 10mil per year for 1yr and 16mil…nothing more tho
Teams overpay in win-now trades at the deadline every single year. What they don’t do every single year (or ever) is attach a good prospect to get rid of a guy who they literally JUST exercised their club option on. And there’s a reason for that.
Exactly, you get it.
The trade was not stupid, just a failed experiment.
Picking up the option WAS stupid.
aside from getting rocked a few times in a small sample size, Kimbrell still flashed elite wipeout stuff…not sure he is/was worth the price of the option or the price for the trade… but let’s wait and see how he does… I expect him to bounce back, and if the Sox are good then the optics change on this move
Spot on Stupid move now they are stuck with him.
Being “stuck with him” is not the problem. Instead of putting their resources towards 2B or RF, they made the assumption he would be traded before the season, and spent their money on two more RH relievers. Now the money is spent, and even if they trade/dump him, there’s no longer anyone left to spend that $16MM on! The holes remain.
You are spot on. Nobody has a screaming need for a closer right now, and CWS didn’t expect that. No takers or interest in Kimbrel, so try again at the deadline and pray like hell he has a decent first half. If not, he is a total albatross, and they brought that on themselves
David Price for Kimbrel straight up
Would have made more sense to just decline the option.
The Dodgers will need to include a prospect.
Honestly that wouldn’t be a bad idea. The Dodgers are paying Price the same salary ad the White Sox are paying Kimbrel (Boston is paying $16 million of Price’s contract). With Jansen gone, the Dodgers could slot Kimbrel back into the 9th.
White Sox aren’t taking overpaid Price to get rid of a guy they exercised their club option on.
Unless he crashes and burns in the first half
I can’t think of anyone the Braves could trade. Assuming Ozuna bounces back, they don’t have any bad contracts.
There will be no bad contracts going back to the White Sox in a Kimbrel trade.
Sox really crapped the bed on this trade all the way around. Should’ve declined the option and used the money elsewhere.
It’s like Sox only make bad moves. Every team makes crap moves. Yankees getting Donaldson was the dumbess of all. He will be on DL before season starts.
Sox have made some brilliant moves. Sale for Moncada/Kopech seems to be a win-win. Eaton for Giolito and ReyLo is a win. Quintana for Eloy and Cease is a huge win. The extensions to TA, Eloy, Moncada, Robert, and Bummer are all looking good. I’ll readily agree that Hahn is better at gathering talent than rounding out a contender and that there have been some blunders along the way, but it’s not been all bad.
To the Dodgers for David Price and a prospect. The dollars match evenly.
1) Trades are based on surplus value, not dollar value. I’m glad you included the prospect. It would need to be a top ten guy like Leonard, Diaz, Beeter, or Ramos.
2) Price’s CBT hit is 15 million in 2022, so the hits don’t match evenly. Neither team is close to the CBT threshold (Dodgers way over, Sox way under), so it doesn’t really matter, just pointing it out.
3) The Dodgers don’t need Kimbrel.
So many comments of clueless folks on this article, I’m just going to address them in this post.
1) The White Sox literally just accepted Kimbrel’s option. Sure, they might trade him for less than what they were anticipating for him, but they’re not going to take on another bad contract or attach a good player just to move him, especially when they technically CAN still keep him around.
2) Kimbrel is not going to be traded for some superstar prospect because of his salary. I basically see two different takes on this trade: 1) he’s a terrible contract who will be swapped for another terrible contract or 2) he’s a star who will be traded for another star. One of them is focusing on salary matching, the other is focusing on field value matching, NEITHER ARE RIGHT. Trades are based on surplus value.
3) The “put Kimbrel in the 9th inning and he’ll dominate again” narrative is wrong. It didn’t work in 2019 or 2020, so why should it work in 2022 when he’ll be more than 2 years older? It might, but it’s no guarantee.
4) According to BTV, Kimbrel’s surplus value is around market rate. If he’s traded, he’ll go for an iffy prospect or something.
4) According to BTV, Kimbrel’s surplus value is around market rate. If he’s traded, he’ll go for an iffy prospect or something.
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I mostly agree. As a RS fan, I’d be interesting in Kimbrel. I’m not expecting the WS to pick up all his salary, but I certainly would not expect the RS to pay the $16M. For any team that had $16M to spare, they’d have simply signed the more reliable Jansen.
@JoeBrady Because the White Sox picked up his option we already know that they value him at at least $15m. No one forced them to pick up the option.
Love this take @Dodgers… can you define surplus value? I’d say if Kimbrell is only worth a marginal prospect then isn’t he worth more to a contending team as an iffy bullpen contributor despite the contract?
I don’t get the notion that because the CWS just picked up his option, that it automatically means they correctly forecasted his market.
Chicago either wants to keep him or figured they could move him without taking in a contract back. If this was the case, it probably would have happened already.
To #4 market rate is subjective, eliminate all non contending teams, then eliminate teams that can’t afford his salary, then eliminate teams without bullpen needs. What’s left? A hand full of teams, that the white Sox have zero leverage to extract market value for
Based on their other moves, it seems as if they had every intention to move on from him, they simply got the market wrong.
@Dustyslambchops23 They didn’t have to GUESS if other teams would be interested in taking Kimbrel. All they had to do was call the other 29 GM’s, ask them “Do you want this guy?” and if no one says yes, decline the option. It’s that simple.
You mean like if they called AA and he said yah sure I’m interested, then signs Jansen?
Just like that right ?
@Dustyslambchops23 What I’m saying is they should have finalized the trade BEFORE the option deadline. It would not have been hard. The only reason it would take longer is if they are trying to play leverage games with the acquiring team which you simply don’t do with a player who you HAVE to move.
I understand what you’re saying.
But the Sox had 5 days to make a decision, as you said, they surely did some level of due diligence but no team was going to start with a Kimbrel trade at the beginning of the offseason. Now the music stopped and the Sox don’t have a chair for Kimbrel.
Only thing I don’t really get is the rest of their moves, they spent a lot on the pen, it’s complete overkill especially when they have a few other holes they could have addressed.
Anyways, it won’t hurt them overall they are clearly still a fantastic team, maybe if he gets off to a good start + some teams have some bullpen issues/injuries it will create a demand
If you decline that Kimbrel option you could of had all the bullpen arms and Trevor Story. Mind boggling
5 days is more than enough to gauge interest in the guy. That they didn’t trade him tells me that one of two things is true… A) Teams were interested but a trade just hasn’t been consummated yet. B) The White Sox themselves are interested in Kimbrel at that dollar figure.
“maybe if he gets off to a good start + some teams have some bullpen issues/injuries it will create a demand”
Why would a team that is likely going to be leading their division trade a reliever who is doing a good job?
Because having graveman or kimbrel in the 7th inning might be a luxury they can do without, where as the may need another starter or OF
What players do you represent or are you just like the rest of us know it asks. I LOVE eedjits that predicts trades
@ DodgersWorldChamps2020+2022;
I agree with much of what you wrote as sort of a textbook rule of thumb.
But trades are seldom used by “surplus value” coming from some Internet website. or trade machine.
Franchises have long had individual data used to rank players. They pay people money to beak down film on players, and determine if/how they can make a potential acquisition better. Then there are major considerations you’re ignoring:
1. Are they replacing an injured player or one having a bad season?
2. What is their budget? How much money do they have available? What other transactions might they make.
3. Where are they in their short and intermediate term planning – i.e. are they making one last “go for it” because their contention window is about to close? Do they have players in the high minors that will be up soon, and if so, how does the player they’re acquiring’s contract fit with that? Do they want that player for the next few years?
There are probably a dozen other considerations.
My Mets could use Kimbrel but I have no idea what a trade between the two would look like.
Much prefer Jansen over kimbrel. Glad they didn’t trade for him.
Jansen has got to ge the shakiness reliever in MLB. . Everyday Dodgers talked about taking him out of closers job last year. Never a clean inning
I watched Will Smith close games last year, I think I can handle anything!
Probably won’t happen, but the Cubs could use a closer.
Kimbrel in 2023 confirmed
Kimbrel was awful as an initial Cub (approx 2nd half 2 yrs ago), great as a 1st half Cub, and awful as a 2nd half Sox last yr. Sox would be smart to let him go. They have the set-up guys for Liam. Hendriks has been great all the way around. Kimbrel is way past his peak years.
Liam is very good but he’s been known to blow some saves here and there. Thankfully Tim Anderson bailed him out of the Field of Dreams game last season.
Go Sox! Have bullpen; need rightfielder!
The Dodgers might be interested in Kimbrel.
I do think the White Sox will move him before the season starts. But if not, I am fine with him pitching the ninth once a series. Get him on a routine while letting Hendricks have the flexibility for more 4-6 out saves.
Ideally the White Sox are good enough at the plate where both of them can get 25-30 saves in the regular season while balancing that line between “rested for the playoffs” and “sharp for the playoffs.”
Outside of maybe getting one of the A’s starters the Sox will be content to go with what they have. They waited too long to make a deal with the A’s.. While injuries occur with other teams the price for the pitchers goes up. Twins, Royals, Cards, Sox , Rays, Seattle, and Yanks all want them. A’s risk arm injuries which would kill it all, for them. Not much time left for ST .
I would have taken Kimbrel, (being an ex Brave) over Jansen, but not if the Braves had to give up anything to the White Sox, so AA did the ‘right’ thing.
Kenley is good, but he’s as much heart attack material as Will Smith is. I prefer Will Smith in the closer’s role as his 11 post season innings for zero count for everything. Those innings were as clutch as can be, and Jansen in WS has an ERA of 4.40 with 5 HR… I don’t agree with removing Smith from the closer’s role at all, stick with our guy who did the business when it really counted.
If Kimbrel turns it around which all Sox fans should hope for, then they. have the best pen to either leverage for a fifth starter or trade at all star break . Sox. poor infield defense won’t help any reliever unless they play better. Sox at the bottom in turning DP,s’ last year.
The Sox org are relying on a team that abused sub par 500 teams and got beaten up by any team over .500. I see A LOT of excuses for this Sox team (many on this site as a matter of fact, and I got roasted by a few of those people as well). Well, look what happened, and Im seeing many of the same guys making excuses for this club again (“If this guy does this’, ‘if this guy does that’, if this guy stays healthy, etc etc.). The most hilarious one from last season was the Sox commentator fanboys saying the sub .500 record was because they had to face those good teams on the road, like road play off games never happen. This Sox team was lacking heart against good clubs all of last season (Hawk called it the Will to Win) and it showed in the playoffs. There were a few lone bright spots, Anderson was Anderson, and Robert and Sheets showing up when needed was nice, but most of the rest of the team disappeared (notably the rest of the lineup and the pitching staff, even Kopech got roughed up).
So what does Hahn do this season? Solidify RF? Nope. get a proven 2nd? Nu-huh, get a bunch of ‘has beens’.. guys that were good.. about 5 years ago, and Graveman, who I’m not impressed with as a FA ‘a’list move (not when you need some actual clutch hitters that do not get the glare of a big situation in their eyes). Yeah yeah there still is time to sign guys, but if you are in ‘Win now’ mode, whats with the penny pinching when it does not cost you a prospect but just cash?
Just as some examples: Soler could have been a fit for RF (even with his injury history), nope. Story could have been signed to solidify 2nd for the first time in a LONG time.. Nope… I guess Hahn is going to hope that RF works itself out with Vaughn and Sheets (maybe Aldolfo?), and that Harrison finds the fountain of youth at 2nd, Garcia becomes Nellie Fox I guess or some other prospect magically looks like an All Star..
‘Win now’ clubs do not have ‘ifs’ and ‘buts’ in their lineup, They go for, or already have, proven talent.. If you sign those A list guys and it doesn’t work, it sucks, but your tried. You build a lineup with holes and lose, that’s on management hoping some magic pixie dust will make everything better… I love the Sox, but I’m tired of the ‘win now, but at a cost’ double talk from this org. If you want to be in ‘win now’ mode, then prove it and bring in A listers, and not A listers from 5-10 years ago and you can do this with FA, and not with trades which can cost you a ..say.. Tatis Jr.
Again I hope Im wrong, I hope Hahn pulls off a couple of FA moves and gets a great RF and 2nd baseman, but Hope does not win a championship and Hahn’s trades for non-prospects with prospects has not had a great track record (to say the least).
You are wrong till they play the games. Make JR an offer for the team .