Oakland’s rapid sell-off and the Blue Jays’ aggressive offseason both continued Wednesday, as the A’s announced that third baseman Matt Chapman has been traded to Toronto in exchange for right-hander Gunnar Hoglund, infielder Kevin Smith, left-hander Zach Logue and left-hander Kirby Snead.
The acquisition of Chapman will give the Blue Jays not only one of the best defensive third basemen in the game but one of the top defensive players in baseball at any position. Since Chapman’s 2017 Major League debut, his 88 Defensive Runs Saved and his 47.3 Ultimate Zone rating both trail only Mookie Betts and Andrelton Simmons among all big leaguers. Statcast’s Outs Above Average metric largely agrees, ranking him tenth among all big league players, regardless of position, since 2017. Indeed, Chapman has twice been recognized as the league’s best all-around defender by being named the league’s Platinum Glove winner.
Of course, Chapman is far from a glove-only player. From 2018-19, he was a legitimate MVP candidate on the strength of his combined offensive and defensive prowess. The former No. 25 overall draft pick posted a .263/.348/.507 slash with 60 home runs while playing his home games at the cavernous Oakland Coliseum during those two seasons, finishing Top 7 in American League MVP voting on both occasions.
Chapman’s offensive production has fallen sharply over the past two seasons, due in no small part to a major hip injury in 2020 that he tried to play through before succumbing to surgery. That procedure both repaired a labrum tear and “cleaned up” the head of his right femur bone. Even as his production has dipped, Chapman has still hit for power (37 home runs, .216 ISO) and drawn plenty of walks (11.4%), but his strikeout rate has spiked from 22.8% in 2018-19 all the way to 33.1% in 2020-21. Over the past two seasons, he’s posted a combined .215/.206/.431 batting line.
The Jays are surely betting that Chapman will bounce back to an extent at the plate now that he’ll be 18 months removed from that September 2020 surgery. However, even if he doesn’t return to his MVP-caliber levels from 2018-19, the new three-true-outcomes version of Chapman was still worth 3.5 wins above replacement per both Baseball-Reference and FanGraphs last season. He’s a pronounced upgrade for a Jays team hoping to make a deep postseason run on the strength of a dominant offense and a rotation that has improved by leaps and bounds in recent seasons.
Chapman’s salary has not yet been settled, as he’s arbitration-eligible and did not settle on a price point with the A’s prior to the lockout. He’s projected by MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz to earn $9.5MM this coming season and will be owed one more raise for the 2023 campaign before reaching free agency in the 2023-24 offseason. While Jays fans may be looking to Matt Olson’s swift extension following a trade from Oakland to his hometown Braves, it should be pointed out that as a client of the Boras Corporation, Chapman seems less likely to follow that same trajectory. Still, he’ll be locked in as the Toronto third baseman for at least the next two seasons.
Adding Chapman firmly pushes Cavan Biggio to second base, where he’s better suited to play from a defensive standpoint. Chapman’s range will also play nicely alongside Bo Bichette, who has drawn mixed reviews for his glovework at shortstop. Statcast notes that Bichette is much stronger on balls hit to his left side than those hit to his right, so getting some extra range out of their third baseman will be particularly helpful.
It’s worth pointing out that Chapman isn’t an ideal fit for a Toronto lineup that skews almost entirely right-handed. He’d give them eight pure right-handed hitters in the starting lineup, with Biggio the lone lefty. That right-handed lean was part of the reason that a potential Freddie Freeman fit has seemed so tantalizing for the Jays. This acquisition technically doesn’t rule out a Freeman signing, but it does quash any speculation of Vladimir Guerrero Jr. moving back to third base. That’s in the team’s best interest anyhow, as Guerrero was never a strong defensive option at the hot corner. A theoretical Freeman addition would push Guerrero into a primary designated hitter role earlier in his career than the Jays might’ve liked, but the sheer offensive firepower of that lineup would still make it worth considering. Toronto had been linked to Kyle Schwarber, but he’s now Philadelphia-bound after agreeing to a four-year deal with the Phillies.
Turning the Oakland’s return, they’ll acquire one high-end but far-off pitching prospect, Hoglund, and a trio of largely MLB-ready pieces in Smith, Logue and Snead. Hoglund was the No. 19 overall draft pick in 2021 and might well have gone in the Top 10 selections had he not required Tommy John surgery during last year’s NCAA season. The former Ole Miss ace was largely regarded as one of the top college arms in the draft after pitching to a 2.41 ERA with a sky-high 39% strikeout rate against a strong 6.1% walk rate.
Baseball America ranked him fifth among Toronto farmhands, while FanGraphs pegged him No. 3 in the Toronto system. Much of Hoglund’s future depends on how he recovers from Tommy John surgery, but he’d been described as an advanced college arm with mid-rotation upside and a potential quick path to the big leagues.
Smith, 25, ought to step right into the Athletics’ Opening Day lineup. He went just 3-for-32 in a brief big league cup of coffee late in the 2021 season, but that’s overshadowed by a big .285/.370/.561 batting line in Triple-A last year. Smith, ranked seventh among Jays prospects at BA and 16th at FanGraphs, smacked 21 home runs, 27 doubles and four triples while also going 18-for-21 in stolen base attempts in that outstanding Triple-A campaign. BA ranked him as the game’s No. 91 prospect in the 2018-19 offseason, and while a poor first showing in Triple-A dropped his stock, last year’s excellent rebound restored a good bit of faith in his abilities.
The Jays played Smith primarily at shortstop during his time in Triple-A, but he also has 651 professional innings at third base and 161 innings of work at second base. Scouting reports peg him as a capable but not-elite defender at short. Given the presence of all-world defensive prospect Nick Allen in the upper tiers of the Oakland system, it seems quite possible that Smith’s eventual home with the A’s will be either third base or second base.
As for the two pitchers, Logue has a chance to be in the Oakland rotation before long. The 25-year-old (26 in April) was Toronto’s ninth-round pick in 2017 and has greatly elevated his status, thanks in part to a nice showing between Double-A and Triple-A this past season. In 125 innings between the two levels, Logue notched a 3.67 ERA with a strong 28.2% strikeout rate, an even better 5.3% walk rate and a 38% ground-ball rate. That he’s a fly-ball pitcher moving to Oakland as opposed to Toronto’s more hitter-friendly Rogers Centre can only help his chances of becoming a quality big league contributor.
Logue ranked 24th among Jays prospects at BA, where he was labeled one of the system’s “most improved” players in 2021 and touted as a potential back-end starter. FanGraphs tabbed him 10th in the Toronto system, praising his plus changeup, plus command and above-average cutter. Scouting reports generally don’t peg Logue as more than a fourth starter, but if he’s able to realize that potential, there’s quite a bit of value in six-plus seasons of a No. 4 starter.
Snead, 27, gives the A’s an MLB-ready bullpen piece who made his big league debut late in the ’21 season. Snead allowed three runs (two earned) on seven hits and a pair of walks with seven strikeouts through his first 7 2/3 big league innings last year. That marked the continuation of an excellent season in Triple-A, where he’d notched a 1.58 ERA with a huge 36.1% strikeout rate, a 10.1% walk rate and a massive 63.3% ground-ball rate.
Unlike many lefties, Snead has no issues containing right-handed opponents in 2021. While he was still better against left-handers, who posted an awful .141/.222/.203 against him (Majors and Triple-A combined), right-handers were similarly futile. Even when batters held the platoon advantage, they mustered only a .186/.278/.245 output against Snead. He’s been a pure reliever throughout his professional career, but that dominance against both righties and lefties mitigates any specialist concerns and gives him the chance to be a multi-inning option. Snead has pitched 236 1/3 innings through 186 minor league appearances, so he’s no stranger to working more than an inning at a time.
The trade of an All-Star third baseman to the Blue Jays for a four-player package consisting of three largely MLB-ready pieces and one further-off but high-upside prospect will do little to quell comparisons to the 2014 Josh Donaldson blockbuster. That trade, which brought Franklin Barreto, Brett Lawrie, Kendall Graveman and Sean Nolin to Oakland, didn’t pan out as the front office hoped, but today’s swap is a separate deal, eerie similarities notwithstanding. The A’s have added a notable influx of talent to their system, and the Chapman return in particular features the largest crop of MLB-ready talent they’ve picked up thus far in their offseason dealings.
The Chapman trade marks the latest step in the dismantling of a roster that was largely foreseeable but is nevertheless disheartening for the fanbase. Chapman follows fan favorites Olson and Chris Bassitt out the door, and it’s unlikely Oakland will stop its roster purge with those three. Lefty Sean Manaea, a free agent at season’s end, seems all but certain to be traded. Right-hander Frankie Montas, center fielder Ramon Laureano and reliever Lou Trivino all have multiple seasons of club control remaining but still could change hands. Montas, in particular, has been a target for pitching-hungry clubs. Looking ahead, it’s not really a question of whether any of those players will be traded — but rather one of who’ll be the next to go.
Former All-Star second baseman Carlos Baerga first reported on Instagram that a trade agreement was in place. Sportsnet’s Shi Davidi reported Oakland’s return for Chapman (Twitter link).
badco44
Steve is up and rolling early this morning!
mydadleftme
Hi Steve
tstats
Good morning our good king Steve
Sheep8
Does King Steve have a Prince John? Are they from Prince John? Or am I getting my royalty confused again?
fivepoundbass
Or does he have Prince Albert in a can?
statman
I wonder if the a’s will lose any of their fans over this series of fire sales … either of them?!?!?!
Philly A's
Eh. It’s nothing new.. will happen again and again and again before the new stadium is built in 2050. In Vegas.
Braves4410
If true FF5 heading to California team!
802Ghost
Or the RedSox.
Joeypower
Jays are winning the WS!
whogg72
While I love the idea of Freeman, this is more reasonable…
iverbure
Certainly fits positionally better.
Milwaukee-2208
Oakland is such a shameful organization. Trading a 27 year old face of a franchise after being super competitive the last few seasons. Blowing up the team with no reason to. Teams need to stop punting before the season even starts. Same with the reds. Reds could have added some cheap quality players and contended with the extra playoff spot. It’s not like the brewers and cards are invincible
costergaard2
agreed. The union should have gotten a salary floor. The marlins, pirates, orioles, athletics (and I’m sure I’m forgetting a few) all have payrolls ranging from $30-55mm. The luxury tax/MLBtv/mlb.com/expanded playoffs are all bringing all the teams extra money and those teams pocket it and don’t put it back on the field. This is corporate welfare at it’s worst. If all 30 teams acted like this, there wouldn’t be any money at all.
Milwaukee-2208
My brewers are a small market team just like those teams you listed and they have tried super hard recently. The trade for Renfroe was good, and signing Boxburger and mccutchen on 1 year deals are all moves those small market teams could do to marginally improve. It’s embarrassing, bad for the sport, and bad for the new CBA agreement that tried to target tanking. 2 teams punting right out of the lockout
jjd002
There is absolutely nothing wrong with tanking to rebuild. It got rings for Chicago, Houston, and Washington. There is something wrong with just being a poorly ran team, though.
Shoguneye
It was long projected and executed after the lockout ended because, drumroll, the lockout ended. I’d love to have Beane running the show in TO. Nothing he can do without the revenue/budget. Lots of teams have emulated aspects of moneyball. Proper union wages? Really? What is a proper wage? The league has a minimum and anything else is shaped by supply, demand. and budget. What would help shape these decisions is ‘relegation’ and or cutoffs to revenue streams.
Big Hurt
How’s that worked out for ‘your Brewers’? One WS appearance and one of 6 teams to never win one. The hatred for teams like the As when they do this is odd to me, or more likely lemming responses because people feel they are supposed to hate it.
The A’s are trading their assets for some great prospects, not because they want to lose this year (that would be ‘tanking’, to me), but because they want to sustain the amazing winning they’ve done over the past 4 years with a crappy stadium and dwindling fanbase. To do that, they are turning over the team, which could/will result in losing this year, but with the expectation that they will be better next year and beyond than if they held on to all their current talent, again averaged 8k fans/game, and won 84 games in ’22.
It’s smart, it’s not tanking, and it’s NOT ‘shameful’ in the least.
HalosHeavenJJ
I did an article about a salary floor and looked hard into revenue sharing. Your Brewers consistently rock payrolls right at the revenue sharing number.
They are using the funds the way they are supposed to be used. And getting good results.
Brewers are doing it the right way. I’m a fan of tte organization.
ohyeadam
Astros won by banging trash cans not tanking
iverbure
Astros have been pretty good since banging trash cans so let the trash can thing go, they’re just really good and will be good this year again.
DogDays2
No, I’m not letting it go. They deserve the ridicule.
justdadamaja
That would make sense until you account for the shared revenue that they’re already receiving. These teams start out WELL over the black before a single ticket is sold.
Never mind that a big chunk of stadium costs is TAX PAYER FUNDED.
The A’s and Sandy Alderson were forever crying broke even after 3 consecutive WS appearances ( and post-season revenue ) and at the time, they had one of the richest owners in all of sports ( the family that owned Levi jeans )
So yeah, well before Beane came into the picture, the bar for Oakland fans was set for them to believe Oakland was this poor team that couldn’t afford to keep a high payroll ( and then magically were able to pay Henderson, Canseco, Stewart as the highest paid MLB folks with money they found under their mattress )
It was then as it is now, a ruse….how many MLB teams have gone bankrupt in the past 100 years…?
DogDays2
I’m not saying you’re wrong but there does seem to be a direct connection between spending going along with attendance and tv revenues. Let’s analyze the whole picture , not just play the rich owner card again. It’s lazy.
Big Hurt
@justdada Um, no teams have not gone bankrupt – because they make smart financial decisions, like this one? I love it when guys on the internet with a net worth of like 12 bucks tell billionaires how to spend their money.
I’m a White Sox fan, and I can’t tell you how exciting the Chris Sale and Jose Quintana trades were to me. The Sox received 4 players that are now helping make them a true World Series contender (Kopech, Moncada, Jimenez and Cease).. Yes – we had to deal with a few years of 70 wins instead of 82, but the team now is in a great place to be REALLY good. That’s good for Sox fans, and smart business.
If you can’t deal with a year or 2 of 70 wins as a fan base, then I’ll get you some participation trophies to help you out.
THE downvoter
Coster, please dont comment when you have way less than half the total picture. Stop being a parrot and do a little research. While there may be frugal owners out there, you clearly do not understand how the items you mentioned above are distrubuted and when. The fact that you mention a salary floor, without a cap, proves the point.
myaccount2
@coster- MLBPA didn’t want a salary floor because they knew the concession would have to be a salary cap at a much lower number than the tax figure.
bronyaur
The A’s have had only five seasons below .500 in the last 25 seasons. Despite the whinging here, this leadership team has clearly demonstrated that they know how to win. How about we just see how this works out over the next couple of seasons instead of being reflexively incontinent about it?
WillDS
Yeah I can understand the Reds getting slagged but the A’s are one of the more successful teams from win/loss perspective.
Prospectnvstr
bronyaur: You make to much sense. You even have facts to back up your comments. I’d rather have the A’s mo instead of how the Pirates run their organization.
stymeedone
That Oakland team just got back a haul for Chapman. I can easily see all 4 of these new players making the major league team and contributing in the future.
Philly A's
There can’t be a salary floor without a salary cap. The MLPA won’t agree to the cap, so Owners won’t agree to the floor. And even when the A’s were competitive, their payroll was $80m ( give or take)
afsooner02
Normally I’d agree but Oakland seems to reload better than any team out there on home grown talent. They’ve made the playoffs 11 times since 2000. They have really good scouting and development. (Yes and moneyball)
I’m betting in 3 years or less, they’ll be right back in the playoffs.
downsr30
Every team has to do what they have to do to compete with the big boys. The A’s can’t spend like the big market teams, so they have to cash in on their guys a year too early instead of a year too late. Typically they make the right move too. How many teams have a better winning % this century?
The Rays do the same thing. They are getting great returns and will be competing within 1-2 years. If they hold onto these guys and sign them to big contracts and they don’t work out, they are screwed. Look how other small market teams and big contracts have worked out:
Twins: Joe Mauer – fail
Reds: Joey Votto – fail
Marlins: Giancarlo Stanton – fail
Brewers: Christian Yelich – fail
marrtho
Votto not a fail and you can’t call the Yelich contract a fail yet either
believeitornot
The Rays will not be competing within 1-2 years. They are competing now.
downsr30
Was talking about the A’s in 1-2 years, not the Rays.
And the Votto contract is definitely a fail, and this far, the Yelich contract is horrendous. He is Jason Heyward 2.0
Kennyb217
The Votto contract is a fail? What are you smoking. He’s hit .290/.414/.501 since he signed it before the 2014 season, wprth a total $225 million. He’s compiled 27 WAR over that span, a dollar value of $216.4 million. With 3 years left, he’s almost given more value than the contract is worth.
Eovaldismemes
those contract takes have to be the worst takes I’ve seen in a while….
You realize how much Mauer helped the Twins in that period, homie was a fan favorite and was an amazing player
Yelich had 2 down years but his prime he’d rake
Votto is just votto and stanton has been a good impact to the yankees
Samuel
“The Rays will not be competing within 1-2 years. They are competing now.”
@ believeitornot;
Wrong.
Look at the ages of the players on their roster.
They constantly turn over guys – even with years of control left – for younger players they can coach up.
What they do is unique. They are MLB’s FO trend setters.
stymeedone
The player doesn’t have to fail for the contract to fail. The contract can prevent further moves, or upgrades at other positions, preventing the team from getting better. It can hamstring the team.
vtbaseball
But I think the point is even Oakland was just a piece or two away from getting deeper into the postseason. The fans of these teams deserve better.
bucsfan0004
They did the exact same thing with Donaldson, and got an underwhelming return for him. Hopefully those scouts over in Oakland are well-paid, because they keep uncovering talent.
DogDays2
The fans of these teams would deserve better if they would actually show up to the games…
hiflew
Maybe if the teams proved they could be consistent, the fans WOULD show up to the games. Why pay a lot of money to watch a team that is just going to be sold off for parts in a year or two?
At the rate players are changing uniforms, there will be no fans of TEAMS in the future. Right now, all you can do is root for laundry anyway because the faces wearing the laundry have about as high an employee turnover rate as your local Taco Bell.
DogDays2
Hiflew; Not sure who you’re talking about. The A’s and Rays are normally competitive.
JoeBrady
afsooner02
I’m betting in 3 years or less, they’ll be right back in the playoffs.
===========================================
I love what they’ve done so far. They’ve picked up 3 future starters, and 3 useful pieces, imho. And that’s without including Chapman, two SPs, and the CF.
windmill_noise_causes_cancer
And they’ll win nothing, trade them when it’s time to pay them, rinse and repeat.
MoneyBallJustWorks
the As in all likelihood will Moneyball this and find cheaper talent that becomes available.
with Rizzo and a glut of INF in NY, they could look into voit. one of the power OF guys who fall and may take a one year deal (Soler maybe) could be an option.
I agree it sucks as they get back revenue sharing they trade any pending raise guys, they frequently do this and find the scrap pieces and generally compete.
Rbase
Yeah i think the Yanks and A’s can still swing a trade for a pitcher or for Laureano that includes Voit + prospects. Then if Voit has a good year he can be traded again for more prospects
ldoggnation
The Yankees are no longer a threat to be a contender.
Toronto, Tampa and Red Sox. The Angels have a better pitching staff.
stymeedone
Oakland is not acquiring players with less than 5 years of control. Voit does not fit that requirement.
DogDays2
Idoggnatiin: yeah sure, the Yankees won’t contend and their pitching is terrible. You really know baseball geez….
mrmackey
Quite the hot take.
Moonlight Graham
They’ve been doing this for 20 years. There’s nothing surprising or outrageous about it. It’s their MO, and will be at least until they get a new stadium and can draw people to the ballpark again.
The thing is: they’re good at it. They’re never out of contention for long, unlike the Pirates.
A'sfaninUK
It doesnt matter: the A’s had a contender in place and tore it down instead of spending on a LF. Truly pathetic. John Fisher is a shameful person.
A’s would have had like 5 rings in the 2000s if their owner wasn’t a scamming billionaire who cries poor all the time.
enteluj88
They also have one of the wealthiest owners in the game. When MLBTR put out that report a few months back on owner net worths, I was surprised to see Oakland’s in the top 5 or 6. That team should have a WS or two by now if it weren’t for his penny pinching.
downsr30
How do you think he became that wealthy? By spending more than his business is bringing in? Just because he’s wealthy from his other successes doesn’t mean he should use that $ to support the A’s.
Astros2017&22Champs
You’re seriously defending the A’s owner? If you dont want to spend then don’t own a sports franchise. The problem is the leagues. In a perfect world only people who want to win should be an owner. Its why Astros fans love Jim Crane. He is not in it to make money. He wants to win big time. Every fan deserves that
A'sfaninUK
@downsr30 – you are 100% wrong here and need to stop saying stuff like this.
“Just because he’s wealthy from his other successes doesn’t mean he should use that $ to support the A’s” – ok but you do understand theres like 100 billionaires out there who would HAPPILY do that? The Mets owner is just one example of how wrong you are to say something truly awful and wrong like that.
THE downvoter
Astros2017: you are another one who CLEARLY does not fully understand baseball economics. Please stop. Jim Crane is no different than any other owner, and some may argue, he is less. Maybe you should also read up on recency bias, which you clearly have.
Astros2017&22Champs
Nothing about your comment makes any sense. If you have to tell someone youre smarter than them you’re probably not. Lets put Jim Crane into owner free agency and see who tries to sign him. Im guessing about 28 cities. You’re name says everything we need to know about you as a person
Halo11Fan
Why should any owner lose millions of dollars every year supporting a team. You people seem to think all baseball teams make money hand over first and all owners are money grubbing maggots.
So these teams are losing money or the owners are money grubbing maggots i believe the former.
Astros2017&22Champs
Thats the thing. They are not losing money. They are telling you they are but they are clearly lying. Its like politics. Vote for me. Revenue has gone up almost everyyear since a decade ago. Covid losses were not as dire as we are led to believe. If you believe the former then you’re a sucker
THE downvoter
Yet again, Astros2017, you are speaking in pure generalities and opinion than any tangible facts. As I said in original comment and you CONTINUE to reinforce, you do not fully understand the economics of baseball, and thus should refrain from commenting on the ecomonics of a smaller market team. The Astros and As live in two completely different baseball worlds. Thats fact. If you want to get on a high horse and claim Jim operates at a loss, is the best owner, etc, that is opinion and likely a short sighted one at that. As you stated somewhat, put Jim in the A’s market as an owner, and I can guarantee this is a COMPLETELY different conversation 2 years after.
Or if you rather sideswipe the main point with divesture into how my name is derived, feel free. Just know, it further proved the point.
Scott Kliesen
You’re seriously saying an Owner has to operate his business at a loss to be worthy of owning an MLB team? Why? Because you happen to be a fan?
I have good news for you, it’s not only possible, but quite common, for teams with all levels of payroll budgets to both win and make money.
Your perception money equates to victories is the issue, not Owner profits or their net worth.
Cosmo2
A’sfaninUK is delusional. 100 billionaires out there who would happily do that? Complete lie! No owners dip into their own pockets, that NOT how ANY business runs. They INVEST. They use profits, not personal wealth. This is nonsensical fan fiction. Can’t believe fans still don’t get this basic fourth grade business fact.
paule
odds are greater that they are maggots rather than that they are losing money.
JoeBrady
enteluj88
They also have one of the wealthiest owners in the game.
============================
So you assume that the owner will spend his personal wealth on you? Nice entitlement.
A'sfaninUK
The owner shouldnt own a team if he isnt willing to spend.
The Mets have one of these – all 30 MLB teams should absolutely have one of these.
Why defend someone personally destroying the game? Are you insane??????
Halo11Fan
Joe, that’s the modern day thought process. People love spending others people’s money and they feel like other people owe the something.
Mendoza Line 215
Halo- It is called entitlement,and this country is good at it.
Dunedin020306
MendozaLine215 – Yes and you can thank the Progressive Liberals, starting with LBJs “Great Society”, for that.
802Ghost
So go buy the team since you know more than an owner/ownership group. Clearly you’ve been successful in your running of a MLB franchise before.
A'sfaninUK
Exactly, not to mention Chapman has 2 years left, they could have waited for a team like TB to come calling – the Jay farm is TRASH, there’s no one there for the A’s to even remotely look like a winner out of this.
Olson should have gotten 10/200, not traded.
John Fisher is bad for MLB and should be forced to sell before he gets Donald Sterling’d.
MoneyBallJustWorks
you really are nuts. Jays have no one? they have 4 players inside the consensus top 100 prospects. plus 10 years? you want to pay Chapman till he is 38? have you seen his bat? the power is there sure but defence will slip as he gets into that mid 30 range and the line drive rate already plummeted.
he could get it back but committing 10 years is insane
iverbure
A’sfaninUK I thought the A’s weren’t rebuilding. Not matter how much you wished if you couldn’t change reality. Keep ducking me btw.
Shoguneye
AholeinUk:: So whats the cutoff for trash? Jays farm is ranked 19th. But of course why focus on the farm system if we can continue to poach gems away from your team at firesale prices? If you think your team is such a loser why do you follow it? Birds of a feather?
bigjonempire
You may just be a troll but why would the Rays want to trade for a third baseman when they have a solid one already and are swimming with prospects that are just about ready to man the same position?
DogDays2
A’sfaninUk. Is now a an expert on the Blue Jays farm system…. We should all listen to him.
fox471 Dave
A’s fan – did Fisher hurt you or your family in some way?
iverbure
What good does being competitive this year. The idea for these small market teams is to have sustainable success. If you continue forward going above your means in payroll it costs you next year while losing the free agents. Don’t criticize the A’s when they’re the model of a small market competitive team year in year out. Going all in one year rarely makes sense for the A’s because baseball playoffs is a crapshoot so you just gotta get there enough times and eventually you’ll get hot for a couple weeks and beat better teams then you deserve too, see braves for recent example.
hoyaparanoia
Yet the A’s will still be a competitive and push for the playoffs most year. In 6 years they will repeat this process. It’s the way they do business and it rarely backfires for them because they know how to scout and develop something a lot of organizations have a hard time doing.
dsett75
Totally agree
amk1920
This is such a light return. Hoglund is the only significant piece.
iverbure
Ummm nope it’s about right. Since 2020 he’s has .206 obp 206!!!!!
jetpowerbass
I’m assuming that’s a typo, should be .306. Still far too low.
Mendoza Line 215
I don’t think that the OBP can be less than the batting average.
Pete'sView
Milwaukee-2208 — The difference between the Reds and the A’s is that Oakland got an excellent crop of prospects for Chapman whereas the Reds . . . well, you know.
julyn82001
Chapman is a stub and totally recovered from hip surgery well Jays are getting a great player. A’s will move on being competitive again…
mydadleftme
What a stub he is
Ma4170
Far from a stud but definitely a stub at this point
Astros2017&22Champs
He struck out 202 times last year. I refuse to call anyone a stud that does that. With his stellar defense and 27 hrs last year his ops+ was 100. League average player. This is a typical A’s trade. Get rid of him before his value plummets. Im interested in the return
jdgoat
His defense doesn’t impact ops+ lol. He was well above league average even in a down season.
AndyMeyer
He was also a 3.5 WAR player with those 200 punch outs
Astros2017&22Champs
I never said it impacted his ops+. What i said is even with him playing stellar defense and having 27 hr type of power. His offensive output only produced an ops+ of 100. It means hes overrated. Throw in thats hes 29 and coming off a hip he’s probably in major decline. Ops+= obp + slugging.
DogDays2
Probably not good practice analyzing a player on just his previous season. You wouldn’t last long as a GM. Chapman is a stud.
Foxxfire
@Astros17chamos
no, defense at ss or 3b like this is saving runs his bat may not be driving in. stop writing off this guys d, it can be 4dWar. Him striking out as much as adam dunn is a small price to pay. He could hit .180 with 1 hr and be well above even WAR. ~cough~ ozzie smith, though smith was more like a 6dWar. Range matters so damn much.
And have you noticed, nobody plays 3b. He also has offensive ceiling and won’t hit like ozzie.
OPS+ being 100 even that year kinda says it all. I’ll take platinum glove at ops+ of 100.
Appalachian_Outlaw
I’m not a doctor, but is that injury/surgery something that could linger? He’s going to be playing 81 games on turf now.
TBJ12
The Jays have a real dirt infield. The concrete was removed a few years ago.
ajrodz1335
So the Rays won’t sign Freeman, and won’t trade for Chapman. Are they planning to not do anything while everyone else in the AL East is improving
SteveC
You mean aside from Wander Franco`s
11 year/$182 million extension?
tstats
Kluber too!
DarkSide830
a deal that doesn’t move the needle this year?
stubby66
Just relax you know Tampa is good and sometimes keeping everyone in place is just as important. They will gel more and some of these guys are one more year better. Just cause all these teams win off-season doesn’t mean they will win season.
alwaysgo4two
And yet there’s still a good chance that they’ll take the division.
YourDreamGM
As a Rays fan I won’t be happy if they sign Freeman. Would be even more upset if they gave up this package for Chapman.
smuzqwpdmx
A package of an injured guy with no professional experience, a guy you could get on waivers, a guy you could probably pick up in a rule 5 draft, and a 25 year old middling prospect who may or may not ever show the ability to hit major league pitching? That would upset you?
vaderzim
Donaldson 2.0?
tstats
Imagine the offense if they had a prime Donaldson clone…
*groans excitedly*
kodion
This is excellent!!!
-pending cost-of-acquisition details
lucas0622
When Oakland is all said and done with trading all their good player before the end of the offseason they might have built themselves a pretty good farm system
costergaard2
They always have a farm system but never have a winner, never spending the league average in payroll. This is exhibit A what the union complained about with tanking
passed_balls
Nah. Their farm usually sucks. It’s always near middle to bottom of the pack
stymeedone
But they don’t usually tank. They compete but at a lower budget.
TennVol
Chapman is a perfect fit for Toronto. His range assists with Bichette at SS. Also, his down year last year was due to injury and now he is completely healthy. I expect a big surge in power and overall offense due to leaving cavernous Oakland stadium and coming to the AL East.
Ma4170
His two down years? He’s a premiere glove who hits HR and doesn’t do much else offensively. He may be great for this team like you say though since the rest of their offense is potent. As a player in general he’s overrated
AndyMeyer
He had major surgery and had a career OPS of over 800 beforehand. Even in his down year with a .210 average and 200 punch outs, he was still a 3.5 WAR player. In defensive metrics, he ranked only behind Betts in Simmons for the top defenders in the game. How is that overrated?
Astros2017&22Champs
Jason Heyward was a great fielder. He has a 39.4 career baseball reference war. That should mean hes great right? War is not perfect because most of us would say aside from a great rookie season that heyward is the most overpaid guy in the league right now. The Blue Jays are going for it. I respect it. But they have destroyed their farm to make the big league team a contender
iverbure
Astros2017champs don’t speak about teams destroying their farm when you clearly don’t know the jays farm. Their farm didn’t lose any of the top studs groshans, Martinez, Moreno all in and around top 100.
TBJ12
The Jays didnt come anywhere near destroying their farm in the Chapman deal
Astros2017&22Champs
A farm system is not simply about top prospects. Quality is great but a good farm system has quantity too which means depth. The Jays have graduated a lot of premier guys to the majors and have unloaded a ton of depth for berrios and chapman. Iverbure, you make it seem like those 3 are guaranteed all stars. Most likely 2 of them fail. And i know the jays farm. I love prospects. Pay attention to everybodys farm
TalkSomeSense
The guys the Jays gave up for Chapman has in no way “destroyed ” their farm.
bigfatandugly
same power numbers as semien before he came to the jays and a better career ops+. would you call semien overrated?
Astros2017&22Champs
I hope hes great for Blue Jays fans but thats a steep return. They gave up a lot of pitching for a position player.
smuzqwpdmx
Guys like Kirby Snead and Zach Logue can be replaced from the waiver wire or minor league free agency in a split second. They’re too old to even properly be termed prospects.
Mario93
@Astros2017Champs they have depth infront of the depth they traded away. The farm system is fine. They basically traded Hoglund the one with real upside and a bunch of depth while having depth infront of the depth they just traded away. If that makes sense. The farm is nowhere near depleted. Some of the guys they traded away were in their mid to late 20’s..
Jays still have guys like, Kay, Pearson, Hatch who can fill in. Ross Stripling, while probably still have some triple a guys who can come in emergency situations. Jays legitimately have 9 guys who can make a start, as of now.
Jays got a platinum level 3B in a position that was much needed, his defense alone will make the team a whole lot better. Jays are in a position to make a real push, not collect unneeded depth. Jays have better positional prospects as well, with way more upside then the “Kevin Smith” they gave up. Jays are fine. They added a player that makes everyone better with Chapman.
TalkSomeSense
Exactly- The Jays need to keep an eye to the 40 man and asset mgmt. No point losing them for nothing on wavers or future Rule 5 Drafts . With the signing of Kikuchi the 40 man was full so adding someone else or a guy like Phelps would have meant exposing someone to wavers. Now with Logue/Snead/Smith gone and the addition of Chapman the 40 man stands add 38.
iverbure
Does Chapman bat left handed? No ok it’s not a perfect fit.
In nurse follars
200 strike outs in exchange for 30 home runs makes for very boring baseball.
KamKid
Chapman isn’t my cup of tea offensively. But on the other side of the ball, he’s far from boring.
Foxxfire
and his WAR “somehow” ends up half of vladdy despite no offense. Great 3B’s defensively are more important than ss or cf or c defense, particularly range which is something i follow (that’s why jeter was a below average defensive player, fite me) Oh and no more colliseum. See what Donaldson did after leaving that sphere of foul territory?
Highest IQ
A’s likely gonna have the best farm system after this trade.
Kyak
Pache is Billy Hamilton 2.0.
junkmale
Pache doesn’t nearly have the baserunning prowess as Hamilton. But is a better bat.
getrealgone2
Not by much .
GinaNCRaysFan
Pache is a Platinum Glove level fielder, by all accounts I’ve seen.
iverbure
Gotta love the simpletons who seen a prospect struggle on a contending team in pennant race games for a brief period of time and declare Pache a bust. These same people probably said Trout was going to be no good either. Pache might be a bust in the future but that can’t be determined by what’s been seen thus far.
Halo11Fan
Last year these same fans were coming on the Angel threads and calling Ohtani a bust.
iverbure
If a prospect doesn’t come in and becomes all star he’s a bust.
HBan22
Pache may never hit much, but with his defense he should be a valuable platoon guy, or at least a good fourth outfielder for a long time.
to4
Well !, Of they traded for Chapman, that means that be likely no Bryant. I sure hope this means at least a Freddy Freeman signing or else, I’ll be very disappointed. I doubt Chapman offers this team the offensive boost they need because of Springer goes down again, only Teo, Vlad and Bo will be their main offence which is 1/3 of the line up !. Unless Chaps bounces back, I don’t see him being a major factor !
kodion
Multiple GG winner —if he’s just a league-average bat, he’ll be a big plus!!!
renhoek
smh
jolink65
Wouldn’t this take them out of the running for Freeman? If they got both Chapman at third and Freeman at first, where are you playing Vlad?
AndyMeyer
DH. Can never have enough talent and keep these guys fresh
jolink65
But you’re not taking Chapman off of third to DH because of his glove, so you’re going to pay Freeman $30 million a year to rotate at first with Vlad? And that means when someone else needs a day to DH you’d lose one of their bats in the lineup. That wouldn’t make sense given the money they’d have to spend.
AndyMeyer
If they did sign Freddie, I’m sure they’ll make it work. They need a left hander in that lineup. Either him or Schwarber. I don’t think the jays are done
enteluj88
Especially with the turf, you would want to get Chapman off his feet every now and then. Plenty of at-bats to go around if they still want Freeman.
Pete'sView
AndyMeyer — Schwarber is gone (to the Phillies).
dsett75
Freeman is going to LA anyway
Shoguneye
You realize the Jays aren’t the only team in the league eh? Bryant is overrated and will be over paid and is not a great defender.. Chapman much better pickup. Who wouldn’t want to have Freddy? No brainer but you have to be practical man. The lineup is awesome. You can’t sign every star in the league as insurance against an injury, get real.
bravesnation nc
Wow, they went with the 3rd basemen over signing Freeman. I seriously doubt Freddie is getting 6 yrs. Padres still has to move Hosmer/Myers and they already played the Big Money game with Hosmer at 1st. Dodgers are the Dodgers but don’t think they will go 6yrs. Ray’s won’t even go there. He should have taken the 5/150 from the Braves.
You Can Put It In The Books
FF will get paid. Thinking of any other outcome is just plain wishful thinking on your part.
iverbure
The suitors for freeman are quickly drying up. Freeman might end up costing himself money and his desired location which I sure was Atlanta all along.
Holy Cow!
Guessing: Groshans and Hoglund?
Dustyslambchops23
That would be a massive overpay.
AndyMeyer
How?
MoneyBallJustWorks
because Chapman isn’t worth 2 of an orgs top 7 prospects. maybe one of those guys but Chapman has also been in decline for 1.5 seasons
AndyMeyer
He also had major surgery. Who’s to say his bat won’t bounce back. He had a career OPS of over 800 before the surgery. He’s an all world defender who fits perfectly on a team that is ready to win. Even with his offensive shortcomings, you can hide that with their potent lineup
It should only take 1 of their top guys and that’s a deal worth making for them
KamKid
Andy, What if it’s both things though? He was hurt leading to an inability to get the bat on the ball. Now he’s recovered physically but he has to find a swing he hasn’t had in over 2 years. There’s a chance he never finds it. Doesn’t mean he’s not still somewhat valuable to the team. But you wouldn’t make the return based on the most optimistic outcome.
AndyMeyer
@Kam. I’m all for this trade. He brings so much value even if I doesn’t find that swing. If he does though, then it’ll pay even bigger dividends.
KamKid
I’m fine with adding Chapman because they need someone to play 3B. But I don’t want him hitting among Bo, Teo, Lourdes. I would still like a Schwarber or Conforto to break those types of bats up a little. Even just a piece like Dickerson. But the suggested trade above I don’t like because Hoglund is probably one of the highest likelihood guys of becoming a major leaguer and at some point, Toronto will have to stop having to buy pitching and have some development successes.
kwolf68
The games best defensive 3B just entering his prime with huge power (36 homers a couple years ago in that miserable hitters yard in Oakland) is EASILY worth a couple guys who grade as 50FV ceiling guys where one hasn’t even pitched above rookie ball yet.
Yes Chapman was injured, but if the medicals check out he’s a great player. It’s laughable to say this offer is a “massive overpay”.
Astros2017&22Champs
This isnt 1994. Players primes are rarely 27-34 like they used to be. Theres a precipitous drop for a lot of players in their early 30’s now. Front offices are brilliant and know this. Its why the players are so angry. And why they want free agency sooner.
KamKid
I don’t think massive overpay. Just not a good idea to trade Hoglund at this point. I could see someone like Trent Palmer in the deal if they do move a pitcher the other way.
iverbure
If groshans is included it’s not going to be much else. Chapman has 24 trade values probably less given his injury concerns and stats since 2020. Groshans is 14. Definitely not him and hoglund.
myaccount2
I will be shocked if they agreed to Palmer as the centerpiece.
myaccount2
That means nothing when you look at the trade values of recent trades. BTV rejected almost all of them. They need to re-evaluate their model. It’s horrible.
KamKid
Oh me too. Groshans or Pearson as the centrepiece. Nice but not super exciting top prospects. Palmer and Lopez as secondary/tertiary pieces. I think Oakland will go for a diverse return. They’ll want some volume. I don’t know why I think the As when I see Palmer. Just looking for guys who are more floor than ceiling but won’t imminently cause 40 man crunch if they are going full sell off.
iverbure
Myaccount2 it’s not horrible, it will always be better than random idiot on mlbtr who thinks they know the value of every MLB off the top of their head.
Dustyslambchops23
Groshans is not included.
Hogland is the headliner
iverbure
Just as I suspected BTV valued Chapman too high and Groshans wouldn’t be included. Hoglund 9, smith 4.7, logue 0.1 and Snead 0.7. 15 total.
myaccount2
Well yes, better than proposals like a superstar for Clint Frazier, Miguel Andujar, and the org’s 20th ranked prospects. But I’ve seen plenty of posters give an idea that ends up being pretty close to the deal and BTV rejects it because it’s off by 50 points for some reason. It’s a wildly inconsistent model and it’s not much better than an average fan, sometimes worse than a truly informed fan.
iverbure
Yeah groshans never was going to be included.
iverbure
I agree myaccount2 it’s much better than just about every fan on here.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Man.
The AL East is going to be a scrum.
Huge move for your ballclub, Dusty. You guys are better today than you were yesterday. Brian Cashman better not stop upgrading his roster.
MoneyBallJustWorks
so they got 2 top 10 guys plus some lower level guys, but certainly not the 2 top 5 as you proposed.
phillies012tg
Well ****
Eovaldismemes
everyone currently
AndyMeyer
Good job Phillies
JANUS
😀
Dustyslambchops23
Carlos Braega also said Freeman signed with the jays so let’s wait for a more credible info.
I don’t mind the move but need to see the prospects going back
ClevelandSteelEngines
A’s only seem to trade 3Bs to Blue Jays
ColumnarPower
Baerga also wrote on Monday that the Jays would be signing Freeman on Tuesday. I’m going to wait until someone else reports this start speculating.
MoneyBallJustWorks
wonder if the Jays finalize Schwarber and they decide to go him and Chapman over Freeman to address two needs instead of one
dsett75
Schwarber signed with the Phillies
MoneyBallJustWorks
yeah saw that. Jays will still need to add a LH bat to that very righty heavy lineup.
still have some options. Pederson, Rosario, Dickerson, villar
Taejonguy
Jays will trade for a Left handed OF… hopefully talking to Pittsburgh now!
bullred
Jays hitters don’t have horrible splits. They don’t need a LH batter.
kodion
Now that you’ve done all this work making the pitching better, how about a little offense, Ross?
…he says with tongue firmly planted in cheek
TennVol
Best guess for package going back to Oakland will be Groshans, who would replace Chapman within a year, Alejandro Kirk who could blossom with regular playing time, Otto Lopez who has the potential to be a high-level utility player, and Zach Logue, who is an underrated pitcher and could step right in to Oaklands starting staff.
Best Screenname Ever
That seems like a lot for a guy with a .300 OBP who whiffs. I don’t know two of those guys but Kirk alone seems like more than they would have to give up.
KamKid
I hope not. I get that Toronto is hoping for a bounce back, but that’s a heck of a lot when buying low. Otto Lopez seems like the type of piece Oakland would take. Groshans makes sense as the headliner. I don’t think the other 2 pieces would be included. Plus I don’t know what kind of regular playing time Kirk would get behind Murphy.
junkmale
I doubt that’s the package. Groshans, another mid-range prospect, and Nate Pearson
Poppin' Balls
I doubt that’s the package, that would be far too much to give up for Chapman.
junkmale
Yeah, you’re right. I just don’t think Pearson will develop into anything but a decent reliever.
KamKid
A once top prospect for a once top major leaguer kind of makes sense doesn’t it? Both have some upside and risk. Seems fair. Pearson and Lopez or something like that.
Poppin' Balls
There is a pretty good chance you’re right, but I think the organization still believes in his potential
bluejaymatt 2
Oakland just traded for Langeliers and they already had Sean Murphy in house – seems very unlikely that they’ll want Kirk
Dexxter
Take Kirk out of that package and I think it makes sense.
A’s have Murphy and just traded for Langoliers. And the report says no one from the Jays current roster is going.
Kirk will still be traded probably… but not here. That’s how the Jays will get a lefty hitter.
Taejonguy
Dex… does Pittsburgh need a rolly-polly Catcher that looks like he is a hitting machine?
LordD99
I won’t believe the news until Carlos Beltran’s niece tweets.
Chisox378
This is good news for all AL teams. If they were to get Freeman or Schwarber they would be alot tougher for pitchers to go through the lineup.
Best Screenname Ever
I have to agree. I don’t see them getting the free agents, but it’s good to see they still don’t have any left handed hitting.
Dustyslambchops23
Chapman is an excellent defender, can’t be overlooked as an improvement to this team
whyhayzee
Next: Toronto signs Chapman to 12 year extension.
bravesnation nc
Freeman will get paid but at what cost? I’m not talking dollars and cents I’m talking about yrs. The bigger market teams are dropping out each day and his side is losing leverage over the length of a deal. I said it in other posts, dude was a folk hero in the A. It was HIS team. He will move on to another club and is just another star on a good club. If the report were right 5 yrs 27AAV the Braves offered he should have taken it. Declining opened the door for Olson and the kid jumped on a record extension. Seeing what freeman is going through in FA at 32 kid wanted no part of it.
BeeVeeTee
I foresee a trade between the Chicago White Sox and the Oakland Athletics in the near future. The Chicago White Sox might be sending Jake Burger or Gavin Sheets along with some of their young minor league pitchers for Sean Manaea. Jake Burger needs a shot to prove himself that he can play in the MLB while Oakland seems like the place where he can do that since he is filling in the void left by Chapman at third base or Sheets can do the same with the departure of Olson at first base.
Yoan Moncada is blocking Jake Burger at third base in Chicago. Meanwhile Sheets is 25 years old but the Chicago White Sox have Jose Abreau as the first baseman for at least one more year and Andrew Vaughn seems like to be his successor.
A'sfaninUK
Vaughn/Kopech/Sheets/Burger for Montas+Manaea is fair for both – CSW pitching staff best in MLB if they do that + lose no one they cant easily re-up on the FA market.
iverbure
It’s not even close Vaughn and Kopech alone is a massive overpay.
dsett75
Last night they said Chicago was going for both Manaea and Montas. Which would suck as a Tigers fan.
tigerdoc616
The fire sale continues. It will be worth it for the A’s if in 3-5 years they are contenders again.
But a good deal for Toronto. Chapman is a force and he will be a free agent after 2023 season, so they will get two years from him.
A'sfaninUK
The last rebuild took 3 years (2015-2017), I’d look to the A’s being good in 2-3 years, Beane has got to improve this. Plus the players he’s getting are all ready very soon, like Pache.
JoeBrady
I like this a lot. All of them could use another year+ of development. But Ginn can start in AA, Pache in AAA, Langeliers is already just in AAA. Oller can join the As almost immediately (out of the BP), Cusick and Estes are the only ones that are 2+ years away, and they weren’t the major pieces.
Cardsthattimeforgot
I’ve read previously that the Oakland third base line is cavernous, which is why Chapman rates high defensively.
If so, how will that translate in Toronto?
A'sfaninUK
Matt Chapman is a generational defender, that plays in every park.
Not to mention Vlad will have throws going straight into his glove without having to move, like Olson did with him.
Cardsthattimeforgot
That makes some sense.
DogDays2
Wait, he’s a good defender because there’s a lot of foul territory in Oakland?
No
Cardsthattimeforgot
I only meant that the large foul territory allows him to get to more foul out opportunities, thus making his defensive stats possibly looking better.
A'sfaninUK
Ugh, the Jays farm is absolute garbage, A’s losing this trade unless like, Cavan Biggio is in it or something…
jdgoat
You seem to have it backwards. The top of the farm system will be off limits in this trade (Moreno/Martinez). A package with some of Groshans/Hoglund/Hiraldo/Lopez would be much better than a deal centered around Biggio.
Shoguneye
He has a lot of things backwards, just a ranting troll
MoneyBallJustWorks
the fact you think the farm is garbage and value Biggio that highly shows you don’t understand prospects.
but sure, get a younger version of Chapman back except without the same power or defensive ability.
iverbure
Jays prospects are garbage wtf is this imbecile talking about?
DogDays2
I didn’t realize the Jays prospects played games in Wembley for you to make such strong evaluations…
Dogham
Stripping the team down for a move to Las Vegas.
junkmale
Sounds pretty accurate.
OilCanLloyd
Hazel Mae is confirming too. So don’t count your chickens.
Ducey
Davidi is well connected to the Jays, and reliable
Yankee Clipper
I must say I do like Chapman better than Donaldson even though Donaldson’s bat is better. I am a big Matt Chapman fan and this is a really strong move by a team that continues to get stronger in the ALE.
Blue Jays: Please, please stop. We already had a hard enough time, we just made some relatively decent improvements. Give the Yankees a break here, fellas. Sympathy?
Poppin' Balls
Never!
Joe Carters walkoff
Nah
BaseballClassic1985
It’s always laughable when these various sabermetric sites come to different conclusions about a player’s offensive or defensive abilities.
“So-and-so says Chapman is the greatest defensive 3rd baseball of all-time,” but “so-and-so says he’s only in the top 20 of all-time.”
My favorite is when a known Gold Glove player is great one year and then extremely awful the following year, according to the sabr god’s, who couldn’t scout a player’s defense by observation to save their lives. And the parrots on this site burp up the same nonsense over and over again.
rocky7
The Jays are putting a very formidable lineup on the field and will definitely be in the playoff mix in the tough AL East….but you don’t win on paper and still have to play 162 right… and lots can happen over the course of a tough, marathon season.
hammertime510
Probably Pearson, Groshan and Smith. I’d be happy.
Eovaldismemes
World of Tanks: MLB Event
First to tank your team to gets a glitter wrap!
LEADERBOARD:
Oakland Athletics
Cincinnati Reds
Chicago Cubs
Colorado Rockies
iverbure
The cubs just spent 70 mil simpleton
dsett75
Iverbure…….actually, it’ll be about 82.5 million, including the posting fee.
dsett75
Cubs already have Stroman, Miley and now Suzuki!!! Wrongola butthola!!
dsett75
And Colorado is trying. Nobody wants to go there is all. They’re trying to sign Bryant big time.
Thornton Mellon
If those are your tanks, what type of vehicle do the Orioles drive?
Mynameisnoname
Oofff Jays are the favorite.
260 mil payroll with Judge to still be extended for a 3rd place roster. Cashman is beyond overrated.
jjd002
The West is going to be a cake walk for Houston this season.
Dustyslambchops23
Mariners look pretty good
AlienBob
The were 10-6 last year against Oakland. The A’s tear down should give them 6 more games in the win column.
jjd002
Mariners won’t repeat their record. The record in 1 run games isn’t sustainable across multiple seasons. I’d be shocked if they won 90 games this season, even with the additions they made.
Jaysfan1981
What great news to wake up too.
Wonder what the return is.
I imagine Groshans?
Dustyslambchops23
Hoglund, Snead, smith and logue.
Hoglund hurts but you have to give up to get. Overall I would say a pretty fair deal
Jaysfan1981
Yea I think I’d rather have used Groshans vs Hogland. Jays eventually need to have some pitching coming up
Groshans doesn’t have a spot here for at least 2 years now, he’s probably gone in a SP trade at the deadline
Joe Carters walkoff
Or tomorrow
brucenewton
Jays and Rays pulling away.
Stro-Show
hot take! jays have gotten worse on position player side and should’ve gone for freeman and schwarber unless they get a big lefty bat magically from the A’s as well.
jensan
Trade Biggio + Kirk + Lopez (+ Kloffenstein) for Ketel Marte. There is your LHB for 3 years
After Chapman + Kemp for Groshans + Hoglund + Jimenez
Best Screenname Ever
“gone” for Freeman and Schwarber. If Toronto fans ever understand free agency, watch out!
Jaysfan1981
How did the Jays get worse on the position player side?
We lost Semien who was a decent but not great 2B but had an amazing year at the plate. He in fact lost us a game in the 9th by throwing a routine game ending grounder into the ground and had Vlad save him a few errors on other plays.
We gained not only a gold glove but platinum glove winner at the position we needed most, allowing Biggio to go back to his natural 2B
I’d argue we not only gained alot on the defensive side, but really won’t lose much on the offensive side either. Semien was a big bat and had a big year, but we have a half dozen big bats who are probably going to have big years. Chapman is probably going to hit 30 plus and drive in 80-100 runs surrounded by that lineup.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he was batting 6th or 7th on this squad
A'sfaninUK
Chapman is fully healthy after hip surgery, he’s hitting 50 bombs in those little league ALE parks smh
I’d put $50 on Chapman winning or placing top 3 AL MVP next year. Pretty much a sure thing at this point.
You have never seen anyone defend like him unless you saw Brooks Robinson. Chapman is even better than Arenado.
TennVol
kevin smith, gunnar hoglund, zach logue, and kirby snead for chapman. slightly shocked at the package being a little light. Hoglund is def the best of the four and he is coming off a major injury.
CubsWin108
I’m sure the A’s see alot in these guys, it’s not always about how prospects are ranked. We would be foolish to think these major league teams are picking these guys based off what some list says.
oaklandfan22
Preach
A'sfaninUK
All I know is the A’s went from having 1 player from last years top 25 picks to 3. Seems to be a pattern developing here from Beane….
Dustyslambchops23
Smith is a major leaguer and hoglund could be a 1/2 starter.
It’s a reasonable trade based on Chapman injury and last 2 seasons of decline. They weren’t going to get an Olson type package for him
analyzer87
Good deal. Hoglund is a good prospect. But good deal for the jay not dealing moreno,groshans amd martinez
jdgoat
Hoglund is the only player going that way that might hurt. Still have the pieces to upgrade another part of the team, I like it.
Dustyslambchops23
He wasn’t going to contribute in the next 2 years so makes sense to remove but agreed, could be a good trade for the As eventually.
whogg72
Very reasonable…see Donaldson 2015…
subarusports
“The Jays won’t do anything”
Say what
Ol’ Uncle Charlie
The best current defensive 3rd baseman, and arguably of all time (yes, even better than Brooks Robinson), is Nolan Arenado. Period. Full stop.
One Bite Hotdog
Thanks
Deleted Userr
youtube.com/watch?v=ZXO3hvES1nA
Dustyslambchops23
Ideally I would have preferred a middle of the order bat, Chapman isn’t that on this team.
However he’s great defensively and will
Probably bat 6th, hit .220 with 35 HRs and good defense. That’s a big improvement.
Springer
bo
Vlad
teo
Lourdes
Chapman
Biggio/espinal
Moreno ? (DH)
Jansen/Kirk
Formidable lineup.
Digdugler
I think Chapman is better offensively than we give him credit for. Hoping for somewhere in-between 2018/19 and 2020/21. But at the cost of Hogland, I cant complain at all.
Really the only huge flaw is essentially zero LHB on the roster, let alone in the every day lineup..
Dustyslambchops23
Chapman will benefit from a deep lineup around him and not having a lot of pressure but he’s still not a to 4-5 hitter on this team which is A O K.
The team still hit RHP really well so I think the balance aspect might be overstated
iverbure
It’s hard to criticize the front I’m office but they’ve talked about getting more left handed since 2016 and have never addressed that need.
One Bite Hotdog
It may come across a little cliché, but he may also become a more motivated player with such great hitters around him. He can learn/strive to improve, what at the same time, feel less pressure to be the difference maker. Not to mention, the trickle effect of his defense on his new teammates. Bo became better under the guidance of Semien (coaches and hard work). I can’t see any negative impact having a player like Chapman will have on this team. The missed opportunities with the bat (which I expect to somewhat improve) will certainly be saved with elite defense. Boy, its going to be great to see a 3B wiz in Toronto again.
Best Screenname Ever
Dude would ‘prefer’ Brooks Robinson hit better.
Shoguneye
It’ll hurt. Has the length to allow for slumps while still continuing to thump. Now lets pickup Jansen.
dman07
Grichuk
Deleted Userr
Trade Manaea and Montas. Period.
oaklandfan22
It’ll happen
AlienBob
Manaea and Montas to the M’s for a package of pitchers Emerson Hancock, Juan Then, Sam Carlson plus INF Dylan Moore and 1B Evan White,
dcbona
I don’t see it. Hancock is injured and likely a bullpen arm.
A'sfaninUK
Langeliers can replace Murphy now too.
❤️ MuteButton
I’m not saying he’s isn’t a good player, but ugly batting averages irk me. Perhaps being on a better team will raise his performance.
mlbnyyfan
I honestly feel like all teams are playing chess while Cashman is playing checkers. Braves get Olson and now Chapman to the Blue Jays. Cashman gets Donaldson unbelievable.
DocBB
Seems like a light return. 1 Real prospect and 3 throwins
Dustyslambchops23
Smith has value.
Yankee Clipper
3-top-30 prospects, one: Gunnar, a 1st Round draft Pick. Hm, I’m curious as to how BJ fans / A’s fans feel about the prospects given up for Chapman. Seems like a decent return for the A’s, but Chapman is the best defensive 3B in the American League, imo.
whogg72
I only see Gunnar as the pure loss. But he’s years away. The other three are middling. I honestly see this as a repeat of the Donaldson trade. Lots of hyped return that never panned out for the As. “Brett Lawrie to replace him at third base, plus pitchers Kendall Graveman and Sean Nolin to immediately slot into the rotation, plus teenage shortstop prospect Franklin Barreto.” Trading known vetran skills for unknown prospect development…
A'sfaninUK
Yup, just like if Stroman being in the Donaldson trade, that would have saved the deal for the A’s. Now its Jordan Groshans who likely does the same here. Beane not an innovator at all, just same ol same ol….
DogDays2
Marcus Stroman has never been a difference maker lol
A'sfaninUK
@DocBB its 3 guys who immediately go onto the 25 man and now the A’s have 3 of the top 25 of last years draft picks.
JANUS
How do we always fleece these guys so egregiously???!!! They didn’t learn from the old Sean Nolin & Barretto based package? I know Lawrie was the centrepiece but honestly: which part of that equation is more pathetic? lol Poor A’s fans 🙁
PS I <3 U Lawrie xoxo plz come back because baseball needs you in this egg-shell minefield baseball cultural climate. He would literally cause people's minds to explode in the twitter era lol in a good way y'know? What's life without a little controversy 😛
A'sfaninUK
How does Beane not get Groshans here? I am convinced he is working for the Blue Jays, I am thoroughly convinced. Its TWO YEARS of Chapman, who by the way is coming back from hip surgery that affects hitting for 2 seasons, this is season 3, so he’s going to mash this year.
A’s 100% getting a better deal at the deadline, Beane is likely corrupted by someone in his soccer ties at this point, who probably is a Jays fan. Like adding Stroman to the Donaldson deal saves it, adding Groshans here would have done the same. L for cheapoball/unionbustingwagesball
JoeBrady
FG rates both Hoglund and Groshans equal.
Goose
If the Blue Jays held onto Ray and he had really made the break thru they would be scary. They should still make the playoffs and may jump over the Yankees or Rays.
Shoguneye
May, I’m a little more confident they’ll make the leap. Full year of Berrios and Guasman and hopefully better bullpen health.
Dustyslambchops23
Full year of Manoah too.
Shoguneye
Exactly!
Dustyslambchops23
I’d like them to add another bullpen arm and a good part time, LHB. Then let’s get rolling.
Save our top prospects to address needs midseason.
Goose
Tough depending on a young pitcher being the guy. If he and Berrios combine for 360 innings and a 3.50 ERA or less they are in good shape. I don’t think people appreciate Ray’s season. I don’t trust Gausman but at least he isn’t the guy, which should help
Foxxfire
I was almost scared of a Freeman deal personally. I want the LHB but its not worth it when you can get chapman. I an someone who values dWar at 3b as extremely important and while chapman is probably only a 250 hitter who cares with this lineup. I was scared of a -3 dwar at 3b and it easily relieves me that freeman did not happen, no matter how much i like him.
Jays didn’t give up a lot to get Chapman either…. i wanted j-ram but this looks like far better value achieved. its not in the same realm as what i consider the most lopsided puzzling deal of all time (Donaldson deal WITHOUT hindsight. From Beane too, i still don’t understand that trade in the least. I understand how fair trades work and i thought orelvis might be in this (hoglund is) so knowing that jram would probably cost at least pearson (id never sell this low on him) and more, with moreno’s name even floated.
Another example of the best management in sports. Look at the situation this team appears to be in for years.
Hot take to finish: I wonder how much more we get from a team for Moreno over kirk. Moreno seems a darling with his small sample while maybe we stick with kirk. He is a silver slugger C
Too bad we didn’t dump grichuk and get schwarber tough, we need that LHB bad. I actually have faith in this management though. such a new sensation
JakersTaters
Lots of people knocking on the A’s. If you look at their record since 2000, I believe they have only had a handful of seasons below .500. There are many teams that cannot say the same, and many of them have a much higher payroll. If the A’s ever move to a location with a good fan base, you could see this team spend much more, but until then they will have times where they sell everything (about every fifth year).
Foxxfire
But for that absolutely mistifying Donaldson deal, OAK is just constantly overachieving. The Rays is the only front management i respect more than OAK.
Well, I think watching atkins and shapiro do this after decades of crap management puts them right with the rays. Probably higher but then I’d be a homer
A'sfaninUK
The Rays are infinitely better-ran than the A’s in every possible way. A’s couldn’t figure out Max Muncy or Joey Wendle, Rays would never. John Fisher, A’s owner, pinches pennies at every aspect of owning a team and should be banned like Donald Sterling, because ultimately what he is doing is like slavery. Passing players like cigs in prison should require a fan vote first. No A’s fans wanted this.
Foxxfire
shouldve phrased it as OAK as a team not management consistently overperforms with nobody. TBR remains the class, but homer or not look at what tor’s management team has accomplished.
JoeBrady
Nothing personal, but comparing million dollar players to the horror of slavery makes you insane.
Stone Cold Steve Austin
Do you ever get tired of whining on baseball boards about the As. That’s literally all you have to say whine whine whine
bullred
Foxfire- You make no sense. Your crapping on the management team that made that ” mystifying Donaldson deal” Get some logic.
Foxxfire
@bullred
Heres some logic. I believe Billy Beane is a very smart man, transformative in the industry with a fraction of the resources, hence the compliment.
Heres more logic, the Oakland A’s have won, consistently.
Even more logic for the confused and yet personally insulting ‘fan’. The Donaldson trade by Beane was the worst trade I’ve ever seen, and i’d like to be a fly on the wall to see what was going on as it seemed wildly uncharacteristic.
More logic, i corrected my statement about the management of both teams when it was more about incredible overperformance. Oakland’s owner is not included in my praise
All better? I’d advise you get the logic but then i might have to talk to you more
Edp007
Good baseball trade for both sides.
Revisit in a year. Make judgment call then.
Again I’m just a couch potato but I’ve seen Smith , he can hit well imo at the mlb level.
And a gamer of a guy.
Pitchers ? Who knows. Can’t predict future. First rounder can turn into a flop or cy candidate type. No way to know now.
Anyone at this time last year , pencilled in Manoah as mid season rotation piece and a stud ? No.
Watch the future play out and make judgements on trades then.
Akakak
Now sign conforto to a one year show me deal like semien and we have our lefty bat
Noel1982
Where’s the Imbecile arguing with Steve and mark and whoever else that the Oakland athletics where not gonna have a fire sale lol ?
A'sfaninUK
thats what you care about? have a mute, this isnt about you vs me smh
A'sfaninUK
A’s needed Groshans here but now they have 3 of the top 25 draft picks from last years loaded draft, along with Smith, Pache, Snead, Logue and Oller all going on the MLB squad right away. Langeliers will replace Murphy sooner than later too.
Beane trying for a 2 year rebuild?
JoeBrady
FG shows Hoglund and Groshans as both 45 FV players.
Edp007
I know how much Atkins values clubhouse. Talks about it all the time.
Confident he won’t trade Lourdes.
Thankful it hasn’t happen.
Bookmark it. He’s going to contend for batting title this year with decent power.
dcbona
It appears the A’s prioritized pitching, but it is a failure to not acquire Orelvis Martinez in return.
edward.callahan
edward_callahan@hotmail.com. bag of nickles
Edp007
Probably ok with going with Espinal/Biggio at 2b , but a Trevor Story on a one year deal ala Semien would really be a lineup boost. Or maybe two years ( as we’ve thinned on infield minor league depth trading Martin and Smith ) waiting for Martinez, Beltre.
dcbona
Story would be SO GREEDY! haha
jensan
Trade Biggio + Groshans + Lopez + McGuire + Palacios for Marte.
Foxxfire
look at espinal’s defensive analytics. He doesn’t seem like some scrub on the jays named espinal any more. I was ok with him starting the whole year. espinal won’t hit like he did, but id like to note that the man had a 2.5 WAR in 222AB. On a team this good, he can hit like ozzie smith.
Biggio’s eye before he got injured and was blah for half a year i found a fascinating and valuable addition to this lineup. Do hope I at least see a half seadon out of cavan who im not completely done with like so many seem to be
rb305
Should a crime what the A’s are doing….again.
Eovaldismemes
Homie bats .094 and is shipped out of Canada, I’m gone
stubby66
You just watch Manaea for Casas in Boston and Montas to Cardinals for Gorman lol
bighiggy
I think gorman and libertore are off limits. But cards have some good prospects after that. Outfielder named burelson is going to be a masher. A pitcher named mcgreavy too that looks like a future Frontline starter too. Cards and A’s could definately line up on a deal, especially with flaherty’s health now up in the air
jett
Montas has never thrown more than 100 innings in any season in the majors. No way does he command any top prospects. Maybe a top 7-10 prospect from a strong system, if he returns any top 3-5 prospects, it would be from a team with a bad system like the White Sox or Phillies.
Augusto Barojas
@Jett Are you talking same Montas, on the A’s? Threw 187 innings last year with over 200 K’s. He has 2 years of team control. He should get very good prospects.
JoeBrady
One year of Manaea for 6+ years of Casas? No.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Tremendous deal for the Jays.
Camden453
Eh, I think this was a bad idea. The Jays had an offense that was clicking already. Espinal was fine at 3B
Now you’re introducing Chapman into the lineup who might actually be a negative influence. And giving up a lot of prospects
No need to really do it
Foxxfire
Watch Matt Chapmans defense for 20 minutes and reply. Chapman is a MVP candidate in a league screaming for 3b’s.
On a related note, I really wanted l
kiner-falefa and think that was a major steal.
Joe Carters walkoff
Get outta here lmao
bigfatandugly
lol wut
jimmyz
It’s pretty stereotypical A’s to do so but I like that their approach to this rebuild is to receive packages of players instead of shooting for one top prospect of the trade partners’ system and a lottery ticket. They are still getting quality prospects, an abundance of depth and as an added bonus the returns are pretty well spread out in terms of positions on the field and position player vs pitchers. That’s a pretty good base recipe to building a fairly complete core of a competitive team that will be cheap for a few years to be able to supplement with mid tier free agents when necessary. Billy Beane and company have been doing this a long time and understand the franchise’s financial parameters they have to work within. Not an enviable position to have to be moving Chapman, Olson, Bassitt and whoever else is on the way out but solid work accomplishing the task at hand.
teddyk
Always felt he was overrated. Incredible glove but the bat is all or nothing with too much nothing. Oakland was smart to move him and got some useful pieces. Toronto is impressing me with its go for it attitude. Wish my Red Sox had their vision.
Domingo111
Smith has some tools but he is very raw and will be 26 this season.
He might be a low obp utility guy with some pop though
Domingo111
Pretty bad return,at fangraphs hoglund is ranked 3rd in the system, logue 10th, Smith 16th and snead 26th, non is in their top100.
Hoglund is interesting and not a bad prospect but the other 3 are 26-27 years old so basically AAAA guys that are not more than emergency injury replacements.
YourDreamGM
I am sure the A’s will coach them up and have all 3 in mlb. Smith is likely their utility guy this year. Snead will be in their bullpen.
Datashark
From the look of it seems A’s didn’t get that great of prospects for Chapman.
Hoglund has the ceiling and look of solid prospect but the others are older and been in the system and have not shown much.
I am surprised they would consider Kevin Smith as he does not walk at a high rate but surely does K at a high rate. I guess they couldn’t get Jordan Groshans whose stats surely complement A’s
Ducey
Smith does have some holes in his swing, doesn’t walk much, but has power, and can play pretty good D. He might go .225/.285/ 400 this year with perhaps more upside in the future.
YourDreamGM
A 1st round talent and 3 soon to be useful mlb pieces is solid. They are selling low on him. And possibly rightfully so. We will see.
jessaumodesto
Wow this is a horse s return for the A’s.
Mario93
Really wanted Schwarber.. But I guess Chapman will help the team. If we upgraded Biggio I’d be happy then. Don’t wanna see Biggio out there, defensively or doing nothing with the bat but drawing walks…Especially defensively though don’t wanna see it.. Like the defensive upgrade here with Chapman. Honestly would be great to move Biggio.
Dustyslambchops23
Biggios not that a bad player at all, if he’s healthy he can bat 8th and provide good defense at second. Not every player in the lineup needs to be an allstar
Mario93
I hear you Dusty, just don’t like him defensively. Going off the eye test alone.
Mario93
Dusty, I wouldn’t mind Ketel Marte one bit, package around Groshans, Biggio, may get it done.
Dustyslambchops23
Honestly I wouldn’t do it. It would probably take Moreno and Groshans + to get it done.
Espinal is underrated, a platoon of espinal and Biggio could easily combine for a 3.5 WAR season. Outside of catcher, that might be the floor on the offense, which is wild.
I’d keep our prospects now, add a bench bat and another reliever and then save our top prospects because with injuries you don’t know what you might really need in the middle of the season.
Mario93
True, I’m just not a big fan of Biggio at all. Hope he proves me wrong and has a big bounce back this season. I like Espinal, feel like when we have as much hitters as we do, I’d like to fill in the smaller holes with more dependable defensive players. Not turning a double play over arm strength, not getting to a ball over lack of quickness, small stuff may hurt us. Why I’m kinda hesitant with Biggio.
Mario93
Bichette is a solid defensive SS, far from elite though. I’d kinda like a better double play combination then him and Biggio for most days. I’d take stability with Espinal over Biggio defensively right now, over the upside Biggio can offer with the bat. Our offense will be fine with or without Biggio imo. I don’t wanna see errors, not turning double plays like I said before .. especially playoff baseball, we can’t be doing that where every out matters.
DarkSide830
wow. I’m a big Hoglund fan not that big on Chapman, but that’s quite light.
YourDreamGM
A for A’s. Strong return for a player who hasn’t been his best. No reason to risk a rebound with this return.
C for Jays. Paid the cost and a maybe then some but didn’t give up anything hard to replace.
angels fan for life
Well this guarantees the Angels won’t finish last
t3f
Toronto will definitely be exciting to watch this season.
thickiedon
Damn, I figured A’s would hold onto Chapman and Montas til the trading deadline to maximize value. A’s are well-stocked at minor league IF depth so this just looks like a salary dump. If a team is looking to dump salary, why not target better prospects at places of need?
JayFan
Surprised we added another righty bat. Will be interesting to see if he can be signed to a contract before free agency hits
TalkSomeSense
The Jays since the deal last week have added significantly to the teams floor and have a ton of upside in Chapman and Kikuchi. Add another reliever and let’s get the season started .
Last year when the Jays got Semien there was a ton of talk how playing next to Chapman helped his defense so now it’s Bichette’s turn. Aitkens was true to his word when he said yesterday they were going to improve the teams defense.
2 yrs of Chapman allow the Jays to develop either Groshans or Martinez as his replacement. Martinez and Moreno have the chance to be the next big 2 like Bo/Vlad which a team needs every 3-4 yrs if they will have a prolonged competitive window.
I can see a big lefty bat coming in at the trade deadline or Ketel Marte now would be icing on the cake .
Dexxter
Jays now have $48M in room before the luxury tax line. Go get Tepera and Conforto for ~$25M annually.
Attach a prospect to Grichuk to move his salary.
Empty the farm for Ketel Marte.
Jays still would be ~$30M below the tax line with a bunch of contracts off the books after 2023.
And what a lineup. Conforto, Chapman and Gurriel would be your 6, 7 and 8 hitters!!!
Dexxter
And the only player going from this squad next year would be Stripling. Two years to take a run at it with what would (I think) be the best roster in the AL.
MikeD26
Yes to marte , they don’t need conforto, invest some money in the BP and maybe another SP , Cueto?
NoRegretzkys
They are apparently still interested in Jram to play 2nd base.
MikeD26
The blue Jays are making it interesting, 4 team race in the AL east. yeah, that’s good for baseball.
smuzqwpdmx
Basically a low first round pick who I disagreed with (health is the most important skill, the best indicator of future health is past health, Tommy John guys should drop at least a round because of that) and a bunch of marginal junk (not sold on Kevin Smith’s bat and he’s already 25). If Chapman doesn’t recover his former form, this trade still won’t hurt. Great deal.
Ducey
Sad to see a key pitching prospect and Smith go, but the reality is that they have at least 3 IF prospects as good if not better than Smith.
And they get those 2 extra picks this year for Ray and Semien.
I am very excited that they are able to keep a strong farm system while at the same time building out the MLB team.
infractor
Read the headline and was equally excited and anxious to see what the Jays gave up. And it’s….far less than I figured.
This is good.
Rsox
So do the A’s activate Eric Martins to play 3B? Who do they activate to play 1B; Mike Aldrete, Chris Cron, or Tommy Everidge?
smuzqwpdmx
Gotta go with Aldrete based on 1987. It’s still in there.